Rather a longer post this time, a few different bits and pieces about the Superboy so many people seem to love to hate -- namely, Kon-El.
Now, until relatively recently Superboy hasn't even registered on my radar, so to speak (but then, I could say that about most of the DCU with the exception of the Legion and older Titans books), so I would hardly call myself a staunch and long-time fan of his *wry* but there are a few things I think bear mentioning ...
While this Superboy hasn't had the most charming of personalities as written (lovely idea, making him "appeal" to the younger set -- this seems to be where the Ravers concept came from *sighs*), but mercifully he's been evolving as a character -- something which made me finally take notice of him. It is also nice to see that, even at his most annoying, he would save the life of someone who was trying to pound him into the earth like a tent-peg (thank you, Valor) ...
(Given the temperments of some of the current reboot Legion members, I think that Kon-El is doing rather well in dealing with people. Just as an example, if Cosmic Boy believes at all in the "Last Son" philosophy introduced in the Foundantions arc, he is being a bloody poor adherent in my opinion.)
On his behavior while in the Legion book, especially his wearing of the Superman/Superboy uniform ... if Kon-El at all remembers the events he experienced in Zero Hour, not only is there a possible explanation for the uniform, I would argue it is a pretty bloody good one.
Zero Hour. Enter one Superboy -- the original one, from way back in all those Legion stories now considered defunct. After fading from the 30th century, he reappears in he 20th. And meets Kon-El.
Kal-El is of course less than sanguine about fading away without being able to help his friends in the Legion; after all, he promised he would. So how does Kon respond?
"I can do that. I can carry on for you here."
Kal-El's last words hold just as much weight:
"Do me one favor ... if people here forget me -- "Don't let them forget what I stood for ... Superboy!"
So ... keeping in mind that Zero Hour caused any amount of great galloping confusion ...
The argument can be made that (while his plan of action is a little rough around the edges) Kon-El is, during his time in the Legion, trying to make good on a promise made to the most important person it could have been made to.
(No, Kon, you aren't just wearing the uniform to "keep warm", are you?)
It is just a little unfair, maybe, to fault him for not being the "right" Superboy -- after all, this is not really the right" Legion, either. But the lad is trying. What more could one ask?
Yes, it's easy to criticize today's revamps for not being yesterday's originals. I've probably done it myself on occassion.
Your Kon analysis also does ring teue to current Legion incarnations. They may not be the Adventure or Cockrum crew, but they fit the times AND generally adhere to the themes and principals.
I've never been a fan nor a hater of Kon. To me, he's mainly been a non-entity, except for the LSH appearances and his original four-Supermen inteo storyline. Also, the old Superboy, outside of LSH, was useless... recycling the same half-baked Smallville stories got old before I was born. How many times can you meet the young Bruce Wayne (or other DC character) for the 'first time?' How many ways can you disprove Lana's lates secret-ID-exposing scheme? Yada, yada, yada.
I giuess Superboy, to me, works best as an occasisional flavor in LSH that doesn't need to be overdone. I liked the Rokk/Kon dispute; athe whole disappointimg-legend aspect, even if the rest of Foundations was crumbly.
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada | Registered: Dec 2003
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Kent Shakespeare: Your own observations are also fairly spot-on, about the original Superboy and repetition of stories.
One would like to think there would be some nice, middle ground, mm? *chuckles*
Although, here is a thought ...
If Kon-El does recall the events in Zero Hour (meeting the original Superboy, etc etc.), then he perhaps has passing knowledge of (the existance of) at least one, possibly two Legions other than the team he is currently interacting with. It all depends on what Kal-El told him, really.
If that is the case -- and it is a big if -- I wonder if that knowledge is also coloring his behavior ...? Dealing with a different ("wrong"?) Legion ...?
It is an entertaining thought to mull over, in any case ... it would make a good story.
quote:Originally posted by Tai'Chara: One would like to think there would be some nice, middle ground, mm? *chuckles*
I'd love to see an alt-reality young Kal-El lost in the multiverse, never to find his way back to his Smallville, who winds up in the 31st interacting with the current team (well after Kon's visit ends).
To him, they'd all be versions of his friends, but friends who don't remember all their times and adventures together.
Just an idea.
quote: If Kon-El does recall the events in Zero Hour (meeting the original Superboy, etc etc.), then he perhaps has passing knowledge of (the existance of) at least one, possibly two Legions other than the team he is currently interacting with. It all depends on what Kal-El told him, really.
and what he listened to. At the outset, if I recall, Kon wasn't too keen on accepting advice. Maybe it took some time to sink in.
quote: If that is the case -- and it is a big if -- I wonder if that knowledge is also coloring his behavior ...? Dealing with a different ("wrong"?) Legion ...?
It is an entertaining thought to mull over, in any case ... it would make a good story.
Tai
One of the few things I liked about the Team 20 era was the Legion learning that Superman HAD encountered another version of Legion, and it made them insecure about their own future (and, of course, the Sun Eater WAS coming).
The later Time Trapper stort touched on the current Legion encountering variations of the old Legion, too, although it could have gone farther.
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
First of all, Kon does remember meeting Clark during Zero Hour. In fact, they were quite friendly to each other during their second meeting, so no worries in that direction.
You know, I used to love Kon. Then Kesel & Grummett left again and Young Justice got canceled. Back then, you see, the guy was actually likeable. Sure, he was an inmature an cocky, but never stupid (although he certainly acted that way at times, but who hasn't?), and he'd always get the job done. Plus, he did grow up during his own series, and during the second Kesel run (which he finished in less than twelve parsecs, don't you know), he'd actually become quite smart. The Kelly and Palmiotti runs weren't very good, but at least PAD wrote him well.
Then, of course, came the retcon. The character currently appearing in Teen Titans and the Legion is truly unlikeable (especially in the latter title) but not the "real" Kon-El. This is just some guy who took his place. To my displeasure, it seems more people like this guy than they liked the original, so I'll probably never get my Kesel/PAD flavored Kon-El again.
So do I have a point? Not particularly; the guy I want to defend isn't the guy you're all hating on. I just want him back. And if that guy ever came back, I most definetely would want him to take part in the Legion universe (preferably not under the Superboy name). He's just too cool not to.
[ August 13, 2004, 01:35 PM: Message edited by: The Big Bad ]
From: San Juan, Puerto Rico | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
Good example of why I've disengaged from DC in general. I've had the rug pulled out from under me far to often to care about characters I used to love.
Exceptions being LSH and JC.
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada | Registered: Dec 2003
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quote:Originally posted by The Big Bad: Then, of course, came the retcon. [...] This is just some guy who took his place. [...] the guy I want to defend isn't the guy you're all hating on.
When did this particular retcon happen? I admit, I haven't been following Kon-El much -- even my infamous attachment to Bart Allen* couldn't get me to pick up the few issues of Young Justice that showed up at my hometown Marvel-centric comic store.
quote:Originally posted by Tai'Chara: (Given the temperments of some of the current reboot Legion members, I think that Kon-El is doing rather well in dealing with people. Just as an example, if Cosmic Boy believes at all in the "Last Son" philosophy introduced in the Foundantions arc, he is being a bloody poor adherent in my opinion.)
Well, yeah - they seem to be being kind of... mean. Not that he hasn't made some friends - Val & Andrew, for example - but there's a strong current of dislike & disrespect for Kon-El. Mr. Krinn seems to be leading the pack of antipathy, and I can think of a few reasons why.
First, I suppose I can see why someone would be upset about having a clone of the object of their belief system (I'm hesitant to say religion, here) show up and want to be pals. However, we hadn't heard one peep about this Superman cult until Kon was on the scene, and I think it was a deus ex machina (if you'll pardon the pun) to give the writers a reason to make Rokk crank at Kon as much as possible. (Maybe so that Kon will hide in his room with very few actual friends in the Legion because so many people will follow Rokk's lead and then he won't want to visit again so that keeps future writers from having to keep very much in mind when/if they do another crossover like this.)
People seem determined to write Rokk as bitchy as possible, you know what I mean? It started when he was "acting" to gain the nasty ole President's trust, but it hasn't gone away since.
quote:Originally posted by Tai'Chara: The argument can be made that (while his plan of action is a little rough around the edges) Kon-El is, during his time in the Legion, trying to make good on a promise made to the most important person it could have been made to.
Considering what a big emphasis has been put on Kon wanting to be like Kal, in the "Sins of Youth" crossover, and in recent Teen Titans books ("You've got what you always wanted - you're Superman" - a de-aged Kal-El to Kon-El, or something to that effect. See also his freaking out over getting an email telling him that Lex Luthor also donated DNA to his creation, which contradicts the aforementions "Sins of Youth" wherein Kon's girlfriend, Tana Moon, was killed by the wrathful daughter of the man he was patterned on because she thought he was unworthy, which was a cheap way to clear a path for him to hook up with Wondergirl II.) He's even living with the Kents! Recent issues show that really, he wants to be like Kal. He wants to live up to Kal. (Although in "Sins of Youth" he claimed he didn't want to be Superman because that would mean Kal wasn't, and he was instead going to make the name "Superboy" just as worthy, which supports what he promised in Zero Hour, and wins the "most mentions of a crossover in on paragraph" prize for me. I'm sorry, but I just haven't got much else on Kon.)
snowsparkle
*Bart draws me like a lodestone. The very first DC book I ever bought was the issue of The Flash where he makes his first appearance.
-------------------- Action Transvestite! Running, jumping, climbing trees... and putting on make-up while you're up there! -Eddie Izzard
From: the incandescent world of ice | Registered: Nov 2003
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quote: When did this particular retcon happen? I admit, I haven't been following Kon-El much -- even my infamous attachment to Bart Allen* couldn't get me to pick up the few issues of Young Justice that showed up at my hometown Marvel-centric comic store.
On the first issue of Teen Titans, the parentage thing. Add to that the fact that his portrayal in Teen Titans is drastically different from his previous portrayal (power and personality wise) and you can safely conclude that this is another, ‘post soft reboot’ Superboy. Beastboy is the same way.
quote: First, I suppose I can see why someone would be upset about having a clone of the object of their belief system (I'm hesitant to say religion, here) show up and want to be pals. However, we hadn't heard one peep about this Superman cult until Kon was on the scene, and I think it was a deus ex machina (if you'll pardon the pun) to give the writers a reason to make Rokk crank at Kon as much as possible.
Totally, especially since Rokk didn’t have a problem every other time he saw Superboy.
quote:Considering what a big emphasis has been put on Kon wanting to be like Kal
quote: Recent issues show that really, he wants to be like Kal.
Emphasis on “recent issues”. The current Kon-El does want to be like Clark, which is inconsistent with his previous personality.
Before Teen Titans, Kon never showed signs of wanting to be like Clark the person. He just wanted to be Superman the name (which in no way means acting like him). Considering that’s what he was created to be, it was a perfectly logical desire. Note than in Sins of Youth, he acted like he always does, instead of like Superman.
Now, the question is, would you accept Kon-El if he was more like his 'Future Tense' self (a completely different person from the original Superboy, who just happened to have his name) or the current "I'm not the pre-crisis Superboy, but I'm trying to be as much like him as possible"? Yes, I know you want the original 'Young Clark Kent', but humor me here.
quote: which was a cheap way to clear a path for him to hook up with Wondergirl II
I’m not so sure that was the reason. Superboy was single at the time, and hadn’t seen Tana in months. At the time, there was no path to clear.
From: San Juan, Puerto Rico | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
So Kon-El is Superboy? Wait, no Kal-El is. No he was wiped from the timeline after Zero Hour? But then....if.....who? I am so confused!!! Validus ANGRY!!!!!
-------------------- “By far, the strangest of all living beings is VALIDUS! No one knows his origin … nor even precisely what he is! But his power is known and feared throughout the universe! His strength is incalculable, and though he does not possess a superior intellect, the pure energy of his brain causes mental lightning to flash around his head, he is force personified!”
From: Conn. | Registered: Aug 2004
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anger can be a good thing. Let me introduce you to the DC editors.
Editors, this is my buddy Validus. He has some things he'd like to express to you. But first, each of you should grab onto something metal...
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada | Registered: Dec 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Kent Shakespeare: Good example of why I've disengaged from DC in general. I've had the rug pulled out from under me far to often to care about characters I used to love.
Exceptions being LSH and JC.
What I don't understand is while they pulled the rug under some...they introduce NEW characters and then a few years later pull the rug on their fans?!
Green Lantern and Green Arrow being examples. I guess I am one of the few that enjoyed the latest young guys Connor Hawke and Kyle Rayner. Got the rug pulled under first with Connor and now Kyle.
If Kevin Smith decided to write Connor Hawke or if Geoff Johns/Pacheco decided to write Kyle Rayner I honestly don't think the sales would be much different.
I just got the rug pulled out from under me with the Avengers. And now possibly the Legion. I may quit comics all together.
Jorge (sorry for the rant)
From: Tampa | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
no need for apologies, Jorge. we've all been there. I quit buying 'universe' super hero books in the late 80s/early 90s for that very reason, and every time I consider rejoining the crowd, something stupid happens, and I remember why I didn't last time.
I pretty much stick to creator-owned books anymore, or at least series where creators have more influence the normal (i.e. extended limited runs, Starman, Preacher, etc).
Even though John Constantine, my longest-running favorite, has stayed fairly unmolested despite creator changes every 3-4 years, he may get impacted by the Keanu factor, whether the movie tanks or not. In fact, if the movie's a hit, the book may get ruined with pressure to become more like the film... between that and new LSH, I've got a winter full o' worry ahead.
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
"I've had the rug pulled out from under me far to often to care about characters I used to love."
I had this happen to me with Spider-Man 3 different times-- when the book would get completely unreadable and I'd quit buying. the 3rd time, I swore I'd never boy another NEW Spider-Man comic ever again, no matter WHO did it. (Then Steve Rude came along to do a 3-issue mini that was SO good, it REALLY made the previous 30 YEARS STRAIGHT seem even worse than it actually was, by comprarison.)
A friend of mine recently said, "I wish more writers would LOVE the characterts they write." I told him he'd hit EXACTLY on the problem with most corporate-owned characters. The writers are NOT the creators! In most cases, writers know they stand no chance of making it dent in the market with new, original characters, so instead they wind up writing characters created several GENERATIONS before they became pros. I just bet some of these guys RESENT the hell out of "having" to make a living writing characters who aren't theirs! This probably explains why they spend so much time trying to remold those older characters into people they're not, really trying to do their own characters instead while trying to PASS THEM OFF as the "classic" characters they're supposed to be. Or, they just out-and-out ruin them, or kill them, or both. (Hal Jordan?)
Back in the 1970's, when the Marvel Universe had become a very dark, depressing place, and the original creators were no longer creating it, I found that consistently, the most interesting characters were always the new ones writers introduced as "supporting characters". I didn't understand why back then, but now I believe it was because it was only with those "new" characters that the writers really had free reign to do whatever they wanted. These included Moon Knight (Moench & Perlin), White Tiger (Mantlo & Perez), The Punisher (Conway & Andru), Moondragon (Starlin), Guardians of the Galaxy (Gerber & Buscema, later Milgrom-- let's face it, before Gerber, they'd only made ONE single appearance)
I LOVED the Kon-El SUPERBOY. But only-- ONLY-- when Karl Kesel & Tom Grummett were doing him. when they left the book, I left. When they came back, I came back. When they left... I'd accidentally ordered a couple issues in advance, and was SO disappointed I dropped it quickly. Good thing-- I heard nothing but bad things about the tail-end of the book's run. and it seems, it's gotten even WORSE since. Pity...
More and more of late, I've developed the attitude that some characters should ONLY be done by the original creators. Anyone else, and it's just not the "real thing".
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
I too, only read Superboy when Kesel/Grummett were involved. I don't recognize this new one. As for his involvement with the Legion, I guess I am one of the few out there who would be glad if he was never mentioned again. The Legion has grown up. They can sustain their own title just fine without any "Super" help. Keep away from time travel and references to 21st century characters and they will do just fine.
From: PEI, Canada | Registered: Aug 2003
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