posted
I've been wondering about the Science Police. Seems to me that in the Adventure comics and Superboy starring the Legion of Super-Heroes, the Science Police had a good working relation with the Legion. At what point did this change.
What do we know about the ranking system within the Science Police? I hear names being thrown out every now and them Shvoughn? I know I mispelled that (sorry). Who else....
What facts do we know about this organization? How encompassing is their reach?
-------------------- I have lived for the Legion and one day I shall die for the Legion.
From: Bgztl | Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
If memory serves, the Legion had a good relationshop with the Science Police thoughout the original version up until the the TMK era when the Science Police of Earth had been subverted by Dominator influence along with the rest of Earthgov. For most of the second Levitz run there was an official Liason officer, Shvaugn Erin, who was also Element Lad's love interest. Under Levitz the Science Police were depicted as having only a small force on each planet because their superior "science" technology meant that by and large the small stuff was handled for them without their direct involvement. There may also have been an implication that crime in general was at a pretty low level. There was an officer in charge of each planet and I think their title was Chief, and I can't remember if there were any other rankings like in a current police force such as Seargeant or Lieutenant. There may have been, the more I think about it. In the TMK era the Earth based Science Police had a much greater level of manpower, more akin to what you would find in a police state as befitted the Dominator corrupted government.
In the post Zero Hour series, the Science Police had a much less visible role. Saturn Girl I think had been going to join before the Legion was founded, and Leviathan had been an officer prior to joining. There was a Science Police miniseries that I never read, and a story that had a few Legionnaires joining the Science Police as part of a secret plan.
In the current series, from what I read the Science Police were just part and parcel of the "adults are bad" government as envisioned by Mr. waid. I don't remember any time they were presented as helpful, or even useful. I skipped a lot of issues so maybe I missed something. I think Invisible Kid's father may have come around, but that's about it as far as positive elements.
From: Douglasville, GA | Registered: Jul 2003
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Set
There's not a word yet, for old friends who've just met.
posted
They've had some ties with the Legion in every boot, it seems.
Old-school Colossal Boy was supposedly in the academy to be a SP officer when he got his powers, and was dating fellow recruit / trainee Gigi Cusimano at the time, who later rose to prominence in the force.
Element Lad ended up dating liaison officer Shvaugn Erin in the pre-Crisis Legion as well.
In the threeboot, Lyle Norg's father, Lon Norg, is a high-ranking SP officer, although it was implied in the first story arc that he was promoted 'unnaturally fast' as a result of the machinations of Praetor Lemnos. Still, he retains that rank, and Lyle has called on him for favors, as recently as the first Shooter issue on Triton.
It's never been terribly clear what the intended role of the SP is, or, if so, they certainly don't seem terribly good at accomplishing it... I had thought, when I was younger, that the name 'Science Police' suggested that they were more focused on dangerous uses (and misuses) of technology, more than 'crime-fighting,' with the implication that this far in the future, there were a lot of things that could go catastrophically wrong (power-fusion-sphere explosion, nanovirus, alien contagion, etc.), but since the SPs really never seem to be able to handle any of these sorts of things, always having to have the Legion save their bacon, I'm not sure what their story use would be.
Ideally, they should be competent at the stuff that they are mandated to handle, which would occur off-screen, while the super-powered Legionnaires would be the ones to show up with super-powered menaces.
Registered: Aug 2006
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Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
posted
Actually, in the early Adventure era there's a fair amount of tension between the S.P.'s and the Legion. In Adv. #380, for example, when Urthlo is messing with their powers, the S.P.'s (who were called something different in this issue), show up and tell the team they have an hour to get things under control or they will have to leave Earth or something. There's lots of stuff like this in the early issues, as I recall.
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
You're right, I guess I just tend to let the Levitz run have a little more weight. The concepts were more formalized and consistent by that point. Was the idea that the Legionnaires were deputized in some manner present in the Adventure era? I think it is but have nothing handy to reference.
From: Douglasville, GA | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
When I was a child/teen I developed the idea that the Science Police WERE the futuristic law enforcement force in the 30th century. I always took their name to mean that because the future had advanced so much scientifically that the police force utilized a number of sciences and high-technology to assist them in their law enforcement indeavors.
I also had the impression that from the Adventure comics through Superboy and the Legion of Super-Heroes (mid 1970's) that the Legionnaires were on good terms with the Science Police and assisted them when they needed it.
Now admittedly, these opinions were formed from having read only a few sporadic issues when I was young. Now as an adult, having read the entire Adventure comics run (of Legion) and some of the Superboy and the Legion of Super-Heroes I still have the same opinions.
It wasn't until I read the current comic that I saw they were often at odds with one another. Keep in mind this also means I missed reading from about 1980 on up to 2003 or so. What was the Legionnaire/Science Police relationship like during this time frame?
I'm trying to get a better idea of how to portray the Science Police in my RPG.
-------------------- I have lived for the Legion and one day I shall die for the Legion.
From: Bgztl | Registered: Feb 2008
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Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
posted
quote:Originally posted by matlock: You're right, I guess I just tend to let the Levitz run have a little more weight. The concepts were more formalized and consistent by that point. Was the idea that the Legionnaires were deputized in some manner present in the Adventure era? I think it is but have nothing handy to reference.
I'm not sure offhand. Certainly by the time Shooter is writing, the team has tons of official sanction with the United Planets. Before that, they're depicted as attending various space law enforcements conferences and stuff.
One of the most interesting tensions within the Legion concept is between the idea of them as a "private super-hero club" and the idea of them as something with more governmental sanction. The original Legion kind of shifts back and forth between these ideas, with a gradual tendency towards something more integrated into the U.P. (at least prior to TMK).
Interesingly, the two official reboots have very strongly emphasized one or the other of these ideas, with the first reboot turning the Legion into basically a political symbol in its origins and the threeboot turning it into a counterculture movement.
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I agree with your thoughts about the Science Police, PG.
For your RPG, you will probably have to choose a version of the Legion you prefer, as the different versions have changed the mechanics of how the Science Police and Legion operate.
You have the Adventure Utopian 30th Century version (my preference) with a minimal police force that uses science to keep crime at bay which works with and welcomes the Legion's assistance, ranging to a Dystopian future (TMK) where a gun-toting Science Police state is at odds with the Legion.
-------------------- "My dance card was getting fuller than a contestant's at a Jandan shurg-off." - Exnihil, The Lost Klordny
From: Frederick, MD | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
Without particular issues at hand, I'd say that the Legion generally earns their official crime fighting recognition from the UP, but the SPs always seem to resent the Legion. "...a bunch of kids doing OUR work..." kind of sentiment.
posted
According to a story printed in "DC Super Stars" # 17 (Nov -Dec 1977) the Legion members were deputized as full fledged Science Police officers with the authority to make arrests.
This issues featured three secret origin stories - Green Arrow, LSH, and the all new Huntress (Helena Wayne). The Legion got the middle story. It was a ten page story by Jack C. Harris and Juan Ortiz. It opens with a science police officer presenting a spent quintile crystal to the Legion as a trophy. The crystal had been supplying the Metropolis Powersphere with energy for a decade. It was now exhausted. Superboy expressed confusion as to why it should be given to the Legion. Garth, Imra, and Rokk told him the story of their first adventure.
They recounted how they first met and saved Mr. Brande from an assination attempt and how he convinced them to form the Legion. Mr. Brande asked them to track down the smuggler of the crystal as their first case. The smuggler turned out to be a U.P. ambassador. When the three founders apprehend him they attempt to turn him over to a Science Police officer. The officer turns around and tries to arrest Garth, Imra and Rokk for interfering with the diplomat with no legal authority. The kids persevere and eventaully recover the crystal again and take it to Mr. Brande to deliver to the U.P. government. Brande leaks the story to the press. The Legionnaires are rewarded with honorary membership to all United Planets worlds and badges deputizing them as Science Police officers with the authority to make arrests on all worlds.
In the conclusion, the officer who is presenting the Legion with the trophy removes his helmet. He reveals himself to be the officer who tried to arrest them a decade ago, and tells them how he has been kidded about it all the years since. It's a great little story. Very well done.
This issue is of note for Legion fans for other reasons, as well. Levitz and Staton who both went on to Legion fame do a splendid job on the Huntress story. Legion artist, Mike Grell, did the pencils for the Green Arrow origin. It's some beautiful work.
-------------------- No regrets, Coyote.
From: Missouri | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Kid Quislet: I agree with your thoughts about the Science Police, PG.
For your RPG, you will probably have to choose a version of the Legion you prefer, as the different versions have changed the mechanics of how the Science Police and Legion operate.
You have the Adventure Utopian 30th Century version (my preference) with a minimal police force that uses science to keep crime at bay which works with and welcomes the Legion's assistance, ranging to a Dystopian future (TMK) where a gun-toting Science Police state is at odds with the Legion.
Yes, I've been giving this some thought. Other than game mechanics, the most difficult concept to work with is exactly how to portray the Legion and the world around them (which includes the Science Police). Since some Legionnaires have changed considerably since the Adventure comics days (Shrinking Violet being a good example) I've tried to figure out the best way to handle things. My initial thought was a real cut and dry sort of approach...1970's along with some of the 1960's feel. Then as I examined things more I realized I was painting myself into a corner by being to limiting. Now I have decided to take a different approach....
There will be some mechanical difference in stats, skills, etc. to reflect the Legionnaires at different stages throughout the years. The player would pick the version that interests them the most, even if it is a bit out of comic context with others.
Example blending a more aggressive Shrinking Violet with the 1970's version of the Legion. This makes that character more attractive to play for the player. Stats would also appear for a more timid and lady like 1960's version as well.
Then there will be some cut and dried decisions....such as Imra being able to physically speak or not. The final decision being what general version the PCs are playing. If it is the 1970's, Saturn Girl has useable vocal cords, if it is the current Legion run, she doesn't physically speak.
So all in all it is going to be give and take, a blending of sorts.
Now in regards to the Science Police....I favor the idea of rookies looking up to the Legion and being much more gung ho about things. Some of the more advanced officers are getting to the point of resenting the Legion. The actual administration will be a mixed bag. Some will be ok with the Legion, trustworthy police. Others will have become corrupt over the years. So I kinda decided to do a mixed bag as well.
I'm discovering that I can't simply say...I'm playing the Adventure Comics version....I could do this, but it limits things more than they need to be. At least that's my position at the moment.
-------------------- I have lived for the Legion and one day I shall die for the Legion.
From: Bgztl | Registered: Feb 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Phantom Girl: The player would pick the version that interests them the most, even if it is a bit out of comic context with others.
Important thing in RPGs: give the players choices. Since here they're playing pre-exisitng characters, the least you can do is let them choose which interpretations they want. Giving mechanical support for it - good.
quote:Now in regards to the Science Police....I favor the idea of rookies looking up to the Legion and being much more gung ho about things. Some of the more advanced officers are getting to the point of resenting the Legion. The actual administration will be a mixed bag. Some will be ok with the Legion, trustworthy police. Others will have become corrupt over the years. So I kinda decided to do a mixed bag as well.
Exactly. The SP isn't a monolithic unit. You're thinking of it as just like any other police force. Playing up the differences within the SP gives more story potential.
-------------------- Tom Strong, on nostalgia: "I suppose it's a ready substitute for genuine feeling." - Tom Strong #6, Alan Moore
From: Calgary, Alberta | Registered: May 2008
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