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Originally posted by Kid Quislet:
Violet has been shown on a few covers as unconscious and small.

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From: Calgary, Alberta | Registered: May 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Jerry:
Saturn Girl is tough. I would think that if she were mind linking a group of Legionnaires, the link would disappear if she got taken out. In Legion Lost her illusion of Apparition disappeared when she let her guard down, but then when she was fully incapacitated her mind went into over drive and she created a stronger illusion of Legion rescuers. Like total concentration while she was unconscious. The mental suggestions that she gave Superboy to forget future events in his life when he returned to the past stayed in place 24/7. It seems like the only thing that could make them go away was active intervention on her part to remove them.


Element Lad - In previous boots his changes to elemental structure were permanent. 3boot they were time limited (to an hour, I believe). The time limit would stay in place regardless of his consciousness.

Chemical King - Again depends on how the power is being used. If he used his catalyst powers to change a liquid to a vapor and then passed out the vapor would remain. If he were using his powers to slow radiation and got knocked out the radiation would continue to spread.

Dawnstar was sometimes shown being knocked out to prevent her from tracking someone. Most notably by Ultra Boy in S/LSH #239. I seem to recall Saturn Girl going into her unconscious mind to try to retrieve coordinates for something she already tracked. I can't think of the reference though.

I'm pretty sure that Shadow Lass's shadows and Projectra's illusions would disappear if they were knocked out.

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From: Bgztl | Registered: Feb 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Kid Quislet:
Going by memory alone, Ferro Lad was unconscious and all sliced up (Legion World #5 or #6?) and he remained in iron form or he would have bled to death. Phantom Girl was stabbed in immaterial form and remained unconscious while Chameleon Boy turned phantom and removed the "ghost" knife. I think there have been times when Colossal Boy was unconscious and both remained giant and reverted back to human size. Violet has been shown on a few covers as unconscious and small.

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From: Bgztl | Registered: Feb 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Triplicate Kid:
Since Phantom Girl isn't from our dimension in the first place, why would she shift entirely into ours by default? I don't have a reference on hand, but I seem to recall her remaining in whatever dimensional state she's in.

Likewise, I recall Colossal Boy getting knocked out and crashing to the ground at full size.

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Originally posted by Kid Quislet:
Violet has been shown on a few covers as unconscious and small.

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On one such cover, she's actually Yera, showing that Durlans don't have to exert effort to maintain a form.

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From: Bgztl | Registered: Feb 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

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PG:

...In the story he is pictured turning into a Phantom and pulling the knife out of her stomach. In some stories her could only assume the shape in others he's assumed shape, mobility, and other basic physical abilities. Yet in other stories, he like the one above, he seems to be able to duplicate powers of the creature he took the form of. Is there a clear cut ruling on his power I'm missing or is this one of those "works like we need it to in order to tell a good story things"?...

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...Exactly what does a Durlan look like in their natural form anyway? Do they look like Cham and Yera or is this an assumed shape of theirs to make them more pleasing to others?...

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From: Vanity, OR | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by cleome:

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PG:

...In the story he is pictured turning into a Phantom and pulling the knife out of her stomach. In some stories he could only assume the shape, in others he's assumed shape, mobility, and other basic physical abilities. Yet in other stories, he's like the one above, he seems to be able to duplicate powers of the creature he took the form of. Is there a clear cut ruling on his power I'm missing or is this one of those "works like we need it to in order to tell a good story things"?...

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Yeah. My most recent reading of the first Threeboot stuff, there's some dialogue with Cham and Colossal Boy (I think ?) where he says point-blank that he can't assume the attributes of whatever shape he's changed into. Which directly contradicts some earlier stories. And those earlier stories contradict some stories before that.

In the cartoon, there's a line where he tells Wolf: "I don't just change form, I change my body chemistry--" which is one of those indicators that obviously writers will go with whatever level of power they need to enhance the plot at any given moment.

[shrug] What're you gonna' do ?

Personally I'd just define it by whichever version you think would make for the most satisfying game. Why not ?

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...Exactly what does a Durlan look like in their natural form anyway? Do they look like Cham and Yera or is this an assumed shape of theirs to make them more pleasing to others?...

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Ummm... Yes. Again, it seems to depend on which incarnation and who's doing the script.

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From: Bgztl | Registered: Feb 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Jerry:
Yeah, Chemical King's powers were never clearly defined. I mention the "slowing radiation" thing because it is how he was using his powers when he died. He was also shown doing this in A DC Special issue that came out around the time of his death. In the special he actually did pass out while performing this trick. Phantom Girl was inside a power sphere. Brainy theorized that the radiation was so strong that it would have killed her even in her immaterial form if Condo didn't slow it. As soon as he passed out, Brainy made Phantom Girl get out of the sphere.

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From: Bgztl | Registered: Feb 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

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PG:

Arrggg....now I start pounding my fists into the dirt.

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I was going to do that when I first started writing fic again, then I decided that I'd rather get carpal tunnel from... uh, actually writing.

I mean, if you go back far enough (thinking of the guides to powers that Jim Gallagher has on his page), Durlans were once defined as so powerful that they could spot other shape-shifters in disguise wherever they went. At some point somebody must've decided that would make the character TOO powerful-- because I don't recall seeing it at all during my time as a Legion reader. Not that I have a steel-trap memory or anything.

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Hey, Kids! My "Cranky and Kitschy" collage art is now viewable on flickr. Drop by and tell me that I sent you.

From: Vanity, OR | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Phantom Girl:
Since my Chemical King skills are lacking, can you or other people give me a list of different things he could do with his power? They don't have to be things we saw in the comics but ways that it would work overall. Throw in a bit of science to help me understand.

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He can start, stop, accelerate, slow or completely change chemical reactions.

A chemical reaction traditionally involves changes that involve the motion of electrons in the forming or breaking of chemical bonds, but can also be applied to the transformations of one element to another (up and down the scale, not nearly so easily as Element Lad could do it) or to nuclear reactions.

He could cause any substance to corrode, as if targeted by a powerful acid, or even make the substance acidic itself, and destructive to it's surroundings.

He could make any substance oxidize / burst into flame much more rapidly than it naturally would, or prevent it from doing so (making himself or someone else fireproof, for instance). The presence of oxygen (or another volatile gas, such as methane) would be all he would need to cause someone to burst into flame, or an item to rapidly rust away into nothingness.

He could affect the human or alien body in practically countless ways, causing a person to age, starve, suffocate, or suffer the effects of countless toxic byproducts that the body can secrete in tiny harmless quantities (only he'd be accelerating the process a thousandfold, causing the person's body to create incapacitating or lethal quantities of that chemical).

Any compound, even one as simple as water (H20), he could cause to break down into it's components. Alternately, he could combine elements into a compound, so that if there is hydrogen and oxygen gas in the surrounding atmosphere, he could cause it to combine into water. (Technically, Element Lad shouldn't be able to pull a stunt like this. His power has been shown to affect complex compounds before, but is supposed to affect elements, not compounds.)

Chemical King has been shown to boost his strength 'hundreds of times' but has stated that he could only maintain this 'for seconds' before burning out his body's energy reserves. This is more superhero stuff than science stuff, 'though.

By affecting brain chemistry, Chemical King should be able to put people to sleep, induce hallucinations (although he would have no control over what those images where, unlike Saturn Girl or Princess Projectra), induce heightened emotional states (fear, arousal, anger), or supress same (calming or pacifying people). He would be able to block or incite sensations of pain or pleasure as well, which might make him handy in a combat situation (suppressing fear and pain, manipulating the metabolisms of the wounded so that they don't bleed to death or go into shock, etc.) and in the bedroom. Chemical changes can assist in making someone suggestible, put them into a dream-like state, block the formation of short term memories or enhance and sharpen focus and clarity.

Physically, he could purge someone of fatigue toxins and give them a 'second wind,' or 'take the wind out of them' by flooding their muscles with fatigue toxins and dropping them weak-kneed to the floor (or blocking their body's ability to process energy stored chemically in fat tissue or the blood's ability to bond with oxygen for immediate energy, or the nerves ability to chemically transfer signals from brain to limb, etc., etc.) The list of ways in which Chemical King could drop a person to the floor, paralyzed, fatigued, suffocating, starved, nauseated, wracked with crippling pain, etc. is as long as the list of things that can happen to someone...

Less adversarially, he could also help people survive longer without food and water, or even survive longer without oxygen. He could slow bleeding and prevent shock. He could accelerate the flood of endorphins to allow a wounded person to ignore pain and continue functioning. He could prevent tissue necrosis from occuring by increasing the efficiency of damaged oxygen transporting vessels in the area, or just causing the cut off cells to use less oxygen and thus 'die slower,' until the damage is repaired.

He couldn't *heal someone,* but his powers could make it so that someone who would be fatally injured and unable to be saved would fall into a state of suspended animation and be able to be repaired hours, perhaps even *day* later, at a more convenient time. Obviously, if their head is blown off, there isn't much any amount of chemical control could do, but a missing heart or damaged lungs wouldn't stop him from saving the persons brain from oxygen death, and give 31st century medicine ample time to patch up the body. He'd have to 'maintain' the effect, however, which means that he might have to use his own powers to stay awake and watch over the person, to keep those chemical reactions from accelerating back to their normal speed, and the person from dying.

Many chemical reactions produce energy, in the form of heat, and by causing such a reaction, perhaps by transforming a section of floorplate into an element one position lower on the elemental table by stripping off electrons, he could cause a sudden wash of heat, perhaps even extreme heat. He'd probably be more efficient at generating heat by increasing the effects of oxidation on the surrounding area, causing everything to 'rust so fast' that it ignites into flame. There are also endothermic (heat-absorbing) chemical reactions (mixing citric acid and sodium bicarbonate, for example), which would allow Chemical King to create areas of cold, although, as with most of his powers that could duplicate the power of another Legionnaire, nothing nearly so elaborate as what Polar Boy could do.

Some exothermic reactions also release energy in the form of light (like those glow-sticks they use at raves) or sound, or even explosively, and Chemical King would be able to cause an energy-producing chemical reaction in almost anything, even turning a wall into an explosive agent. Note that he wouldn't actually be *transforming* the wall into explosive material, he'd simply be altering the exact rate at which an explosion would occur. The iron doesn't turn into dynamite, it remains iron, but temporarily is as explosive as dynamite.

Most of these effects would consume or alter the composition of the materials affected, others would not, and it's kind of a grab-bag as to which is which. Energy producing effects, such as creating heat, are more likely to 'burn up' the materials used. Explosive effects obviously also tend to destroy the materials 'made explosive.'

In theory, a heat-absorbing reaction could cause material to grow or be attracted to an area, and *perhaps* Chemical King could create an 'ice slick' in this manner, by creating a heat-absorbing reaction in the floor that attracts water vapor to it, which is then frozen into an icy coating over the super-cold floor. That's a bit of a stretch, but in comic book logic, it works fine.

Processes like photosynthesis or the energy storage capacity of a car battery are chemically based, and by waving his hands around and using comic-book physics, he could allow himself or others to draw energy from sunlight, or convert internally stored chemical energy into electrical currents to shock people. (Since internal chemical energy is mostly stored in fat cells, Bouncing Boy would be the most effective at playing Electric Eel Lad...)

The possibilities for his powers are pretty much limitless, and he makes a pretty good fill-in for many other Legionnaires in a pinch.

Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged |