Set
There's not a word yet, for old friends who've just met.
posted
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: Not only is a trend-setter in regards to having strong female characters as leader (yay Imra!), but the Legion also fought very pervalent and awful above mentioned trend throughout its history.*
* = there are of course occassional examples that go against this, but to a much lesser extent than most other long running comics.
Agreed, examples such as Salu's captivity on Imsk are nothing like the femme-bashing treatment of the Scarlet Witch or Ms. Marvel or any of the other female characters who have found themselves impregnated against their will or enslaved to be someone's 'bride' or creepier stuff, as happened to Sue Dibney.
And there's been some amazingly strong scenes involving female characters, such as Imra 'shutting down' Mon-El and Jo at the end of the Universo project (an arc in which she was absolutely MVP), or Projectra avenging Val at the end of the LSV war and then departing the Legion on her own terms.
Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Chemical King: Another fact I never understood was why they never did female action figures, by the way. Even the Legion figures from the 90: Only one single female (Imra), no Tinya, no Luornu, no Jeckie, no Ayla... but a boring Colossal Boy, a boring Timber Wolf...
Anybody ever understood that?
To the 12th century mentalities behind toy manufacture;
[sarcasm] Boy Legion miniatures are 'action figures,' in the manly style of G.I. Joe, no doubt being played with in a rough and tumble socially acceptable 'boy' way, simulating combat and stuff. Ruff, ruff. Grrr.
Girl Legion miniatures are 'dolls,' particularly if any of their clothing bits / accessories are adjustable, encouraging the child to play 'dress up' and be all effeminate and practice socially unacceptable 'un-boy-like' behavior, and would irreparably damage the masculinity of any young male who played with them. 'Cause, yanno, to the healthy heterosexual male child, girls = icky. [/sarcasm]
I absolutely agree. When I was small -- five or six -- there was a popular line of Western dolls (we didn't call them action figures then) that featured a cowboy named Johnny West, his wife, son, and daughter, plus various friends and enemies. My parents bought Johnny and his son for me, but they absolutely refused to buy the wife and daughter! Their rationale: It just wasn't appropriate for boys to play with "girls" dolls. I thought this was strange. It left Johnny's family incomplete.
(Mom and Dad also had no problem buying me the villain, Sam Cobra, who came complete with sticks of dynamite and a pointy dagger concealed in a walking cane. The lesson: Bad guys okay. Girls not okay.)
A few years later, when DC started putting out action figures, the lineup included a few women -- Wonder Woman, Batgirl, and Catwoman. I was by then old enough to win the argument that I just wanted a complete line of the toys, even though Mom still thought it was strange for me to have "dolls".
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I'd intended on describing all the terrible things that happened to the Legion women during and after the 5YG, but I've suddenly spaced. I'll need a visual reference to help remind me...
posted
Hmmm.... actually, there were some horrors that happened during the Gap, namely the death of Tinya, the degradation of Mysa, the possession/mutilation of Dawnstar. But the weird thing is how so many of them just faded away, into quiet, more domestic existences.
Not that there's anything wrong with a quiet, domestic existence. It's just not what you'd expect from the Great Saturn Girl or Dream Girl or Shadow Lass. I recall really missing my favorites during TMK.
posted
Dream Girl, like Projectra, was leading her planet during TMK. (Domestic on a very large scale, okay, but quiet -- probably not.) We just didn't see much of it for either one.
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
We didn't see a certain Bismollian Senator until he managed to wiggle his way off-planet (and, shortly after, outta office), did we?
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I had begun to post a recap of what each of the Legion women were up to during V4, but it started to echo Lash's thread about how everyone fared.
Basically, if you were a fan of Tinya, Dawny or Mysa, you had some hurt to get through.
If you were a fan of Imra, Nura, Tasmia, Lu, Jecky and/or Ayla... well, none of them were heroines anymore. At least Ayla joined the Legion when it re-formed.
If you were a fan of Vi, she was definitely not the Shrinking Violet of the past. She had faced war and wore a scar to remember it. She re-joined the Legion.
That's 2 of them.
These aren't exactly deaths or tragedies, but as I said above, not getting to read about your favorite Legion characters in a Legion comic is disappointing.
The good news comes in the forms of Laurel Gand and Kono. I'd add Celeste Rockfish to that list, but Roxxas mushed her up pretty good.
quote:Originally posted by Lard Lad: So...if LSH had killed more female members, would that have made LSH creators seem more progressive/equal rights-types...or more misogynist?
Is there any way to subject female comics characters to the same consequences as male characters without avoiding being labeled misogynist?
I do think there's a balance. All super-heroes are going to be kidnapped/beaten/tortured/etc. in their existence.
I found the deaths of Supergirl and Phoenix very heroic and powerfully done, with no semblance of misogyny.
I think perhaps there's a tendency among some discussions to look wonder 'then are you saying that male heroes should be the ones to be killed, because that is also not fair?'. And of course the answer is, no of course not. It should be balanced. In Legion lore, I believe it is, generally.
But there are some very real examples of misogyny in comics (and film, etc.). The most disturbing of these is the sexualization of assault on women that is often presented.
quote:Originally posted by Lard Lad: And if a male character is raped--as one of my own was (horrifically, I might add)--what does that say?
I would prefer no character was raped in comics, whether male or female.
Yes, I understand that super-villains are more than just colorful enemies, but are real actual criminals and terrible people to be scarred of. But I don’t want Dr. Light to be the equivalent of the head Nazi/rapist from Oz.
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
The discussion about violence against female characters reminds me that the notorious Avengers story where Hank Pym struck Janet Van Dyne was reportedly engineered by Jim Shooter (though written by someone else).
It was also Shooter who wrote the 1970s Legion stories in which Light Lass was slapped by Cosmic Boy and slugged by a Charma-smitten Timber Wolf. (Plus the one where Timber Wolf's Lotus fruit addiction almost drove her to suicide).
I hope he's kinder to Ayla this time around, especially since Geoff John's Lighting Saga Ayla may be dead.
From: Reimagined Trom | Registered: Jul 2003
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Set
There's not a word yet, for old friends who've just met.
posted
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: [QB] But there are some very real examples of misogyny in comics (and film, etc.). The most disturbing of these is the sexualization of assault on women that is often presented.
It's interesting that even coming from a fairly 'Silver Age' mindset, and geared towards young males, the Legion still has such powerful scenes as Karate Kid being the one to be die graphically, and Projectra to be the one who avenges the outrage. In the recent WaK portrayal, Cosmic Boy is the one being tortured, with Trip forced to watch, another reversal of the misogynistic trend of female characters suffering to firm up the male characters resolve and / or confirm to the reader that this bad guy is *really, really bad,* 'cause he's hurting a girl!
And yet, far more 'modernistic' portrayals from the same company have women being cut up and left as messages for their superhero boyfriends, or raped and set on fire.
On the one side, I'd expect the old-fashioned Silver Age mentality to be more old-thinking and patriarchal (which, to an extent, it was), and yet it's the comics that deliberately veer away from Silver Age sentiments that seem to be the most egregious offenders.
In the process of touting their books as 'more mature' or 'darker' or 'realistic' some DC writers have actually gone backwards and become literal throwbacks, the comic-book equivalent of the Gor novels, sensationalizing violence to women to shock and titillate their readers and stir up 'controversy.' Trumping up outrage and controversy has become a goal, rather than a side-effect of strong storytelling, as if today's DC titles were being edited by Jerry Springer or something...
Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Set: And yet, far more 'modernistic' portrayals from the same company have women being cut up and left as messages for their superhero boyfriends, or raped and set on fire.
Good lord...I know about the former (Kyle Rayner's girlfriend, right?), but raped and set on fire? Where did that happen and how the hell did whoever wrote that get away with it? Sometimes, creators take their freedom from the Comics Code too far...
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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