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Posted by Space Boy on :
Gary, these are sprocktastic!!!
I'm surprised you've debuted them early but perhaps you are "jonesing" for new Legion as much as I am.
Thank you for making this site so much fun! Posted by armsfalloffboy on :
Sprocktastic is putting it lightly. I can't wait!
Posted by Blue Beetle on :
I cant wait for this, when exactly is it comic to stores. Posted by RTVU2 on :
You the man!
Posted by Yellow Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by Blue Beetle: I cant wait for this, when exactly is it comic to stores.
You're going to hate the answer as much as we do (probably). #1 is listed as being in the shops on Dec. 29th and then #2 is listed for Jan. 26th. That's at least an eternity away and possibly longer. >sigh<
Posted by 235 - Andy S on :
you are so great, man
Posted by ANIMEAvenger on :
Man i frickin just ...LUVE THESE!
CAN'T WAIT to try my hand at rendering the Waid/Kitson LOSH within the Bruce Timm JLU Animated style way, aye!
AA
Posted by doublechinner on :
Wow, thanks!
I still haven't made it to the store to pick up the TT/Legion book with the preview. So, I really appreciate the opportunity to read the preview and judget it for myself. Having read this I have a much clearer understanding of where Waid and Kitson are going, and generally approve enthusiastically.
I am delighted by the sociocultural underpinnings of the book so prominently on display in the preview. Waid's 31st century appears to be an entertaining exaggeration from current American society, where children are more regimented, programmed and protected than ever before. Waid's 31st century is an absurd extension of the present day, where kids are hustled from play dates to music lessons to soccer games to test preparation to homework, and so on. There is no down time, no time to goof off, no time to chart your own course in life.
Demographers are finding that, as a result, people now in their 20s are more likely to be conformist and group-oriented along a number of dimensions, rather than individualistic and success-oriented as their parents and grandparents were. (To be fair, demographers also find that young adults are MUCH better at multi-tasking, balancing work and personal lives, and get their information increasingly from non-traditional media.)
Waid's vision also reflects the over-protectiveness of today's parents. As the father of a 2-year old, I KNOW what I am talking about. Car seats, stair gates, cabinet locks, toilet locks, stove knob locks, oven locks, tub spout guards, bicycle helmets, water filters, blood-lead screening -- the list goes on and on of ways we make kids safer that were almost unheard of 20 years ago. The overwhelming marketing message of today's baby-industrial complex is "Safety 1st -- 2nd and 3rd, and then more Safety!" Until you register for baby shower gifts, you have NO idea how dangerous the world is, man! The result is that children are MUCH safer (accidental injury and death among children have plummeted). However, because we have become so much more successful at protecting our children, it is that much harder to accept that we cannot protect them from everything. 9/11 and its aftermath have reinforced that cognitive dissonance by introducing a whole new category of threats we hadn't taken seriously before -- How can I keep my family safe from weaponized inhaled anthrax?!?!?
What does all this have to do with a Legion comic? Well, it makes clear how Waid is explaining the reason for the Legion. Why, in a technological utopia, would a bunch of super-powered kids think that they can or should save the world? Waid's answer is that they are doing it to give personal meaning and individuality to a safe but overly-regimented existence. Also, The answer to the question of "Why the Legion" has to be grounded in some sort of generational conflict. Otherwise, the Legion would have a normally distributed age range from 18 to 85. Waid's giving the Legionnaires a compelling new reason to put on the flight ring, and grounding that reason in the foibles and phobias of contemporary society.
One interesting implication of Waid's approach is that the Legion could very legitimately be viewed as terrorists by mainstream society. This is the connection, I believe, that Gail Simone alluded to between "For No Better Reason" and the new book. Gail's terrorists were so desperate to point out society's dependence on technology they were willing to destroy the society in order to "save" it. How far will the Waid/Kitson Legionnaires go to offer young people a non-conformist, unregimented purpose in life? Will they have a code of ethics -- a Constitution, perhaps? -- to prevent them from crossing the line? Is the Legion about being free to be who you are, or forcing everyone else to be free, whether they want to be or not? I hope Waid and Kitson confront questions like this in the series. I also hope Waid and Kitson deal with the "why are they super-powered?" question. I suspect the answer is that, in the 31st century, almost everyone COULD be super-powered, but most people choose NOT to be, because it is just too dangerous and embarrassing.
I have no idea whether this new approach, grounded in an allegory of our own society, will make the book a hit or a flop. I HOPE young people read it and find some resonance with their own lives. As a boomer parent, the approach sure resonates with me! Most importantly, the previews conclusively contradict, for me, the conclusion by some posters that this is just another Archie-world reboot, no better or worse than the Zero Hour Legion. This is most interesting, complex and thoughtful background that the Legion has had since the TMK era. And, I suspect that, in contrast to TMK, the new era is going to be more reliably fun and less frequently dystopian and depressing. The few preview pages we have seen already make the new Legion more interesting than the Zero Hour reboot EVER was, even at it's best. If Waid and Kitson have put as much effort into the individual characters as they have into the world they inhabit, this is going to be an AWESOME book.
Oh, in conclusion, I can't forget to mention that Barry's art just absolutely rocks!
Posted by doublechinner on :
I've opened up the brain spiggot and the crap just keeps poring out!
Another implication of the Legion's new sociocultural milieu (aren't we fancy!) is the impact that a character like Mon-El could have on that society. One of the best aspects of the Zero Hour reboot, and one of the greatest unfulfilled disappointments, was M'Onel's status as a messianic figure in galactic history. While DnA gave us hints of the personal impact of messiah status on Lar and his relatioship with Triad, they never took the opportunity to really tell that story.
The Waid/Kitson 31st century treats the heroes of the past as mythical, the way we view Achilles and Odysseus. So, imagine the uproar of a the arrival in that world of a flesh-and-blood, all-too-real super-hero from the ancient past. Imagine the impact on the Legion, and on the society they are rebelling against.
Another fascinating implication of the Legion's new world is, what happens if the Legion really meets the mythical heroes of the past -- Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman. Again, DnA played around with this, but I think the impact on WnK Legion is MUCH greater. These kids have turned their backs on the values and mores of galactic society in hopes of recapturing the heroic ideal of a bygone time. How will the "reality" of the 21st century heroes match up with the ideal the Legionnaires have created for themselves? This could be a real dynamite story, and a landmark event in the development of this Legion (in contrast to the 1st reboot's team 21 arc, which seemed to have an "elites annoyed to be trapped with the barbarians" vibe about it -- Spark always complaining about us primitives eating meat).
Sorry for the long posts. As you can tell, I am really excited that this Legion could really realize its potential.
Posted by the boy with UltraPowers on :
hey Gary !!!
those ICONs are so great !!! and thanks for posting all the pages, so far ....
when issue #1 comes out, it will be the perfect Christmas present !!!
Matthew.
Posted by Invisible Brainiac on :
doublechinner, that's pretty interesting. You've certainly thought about this a lot.
Gary - now you've got me excited!
Posted by the boy with UltraPowers on :
quote:Originally posted by Invisible Brainiac: doublechinner, that's pretty interesting. You've certainly thought about this a lot.
i thought DOUBLECHINNER's post was really good, too !!!
Matthew.
Posted by RTVU2 on :
wow Doublechinner...that's deep and it makes total sense! You rock man, I hope Barry or Mark have a chance to read this cuz I think you hit it right on the mark.
Posted by doublechinner on :
Thanks for the kind words.
I think about everything too much -- this is just a representative sample of my neurological hyperactivity.
But, having come back to reading the Legion with Worlds (I missed Lost, Rifts, Damned, and much of the stuff before), I felt that even at their best, DnA, and the folks who proceeded them in the 1990s, were missing some important kernel about the Legion.
When I started seeing Barry's art and hearing Waid's (often inflammatory) statements about their new version, I remembered that what the Legion had, from its inception until sometime in the 1980s, was a powerful connection to the evolving youth culture in America. The idea of a "teenager" didn't even exist until about 1950 -- you just graduated (or stopped) high school, turned into an adult, got married and started working to support your family. Superboy, and then the Legion, were comic book acknowledgements of the distinctive new youth culture of rock and roll, hamburger stands, and cars. As the youth culture came into more obvious opposition to mainstream society in the 1960s and 1970s, the Legion reflected that societal change with sexier costumes and more provocative storylines. As good as Levitz's Legion was, at some point in the 1980s it got a little dull, precisely because the Legion was now too powerful, too legit, too much a part of the United Planets establishment. In this sense, the 1994 reboot made things worse by making the Legion an integral part of the founding of the UP.
I applaud Mark and Barry's efforts to get back to the fundamentals of the Legion. A team of teenage superheroes has to either be 1) a "kiddie table" for sidekicks, 2) a training ground for adult superheroes or 3) a reaction/protest/alternative to adult society. Teen Titans and X-Men have been successful with options 1 and 2 (and in the case of the X-Men, option 3). The only real option for the Legion has been 3, and Mark and Barry seem to have seized on that.
Posted by jimgallagher on :
Hurray! Back to the old code names. Now I don't have to translate names as I read anymore.
But I want Cham orange and antennaed, dammit.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
I liked the "who can keep them straight with so many?" line by the SP cop Posted by ferroboy on :
Actually, I never had problems keeping them straight. I remember people complaining that TMK didn't use code names. I had memorized them all by that time, which wasn't that hard since Levitz frequently used character first names. Or maybe I'm just a geek. Posted by reservations on :
I must break rank here and say as wonderful as that preview looked (thanks for posting)...it feels to me that Waid and Kitson have come up with a pretty great sci fi/superhero premise, but it feels tacked onto the Legion.
Where's RJ? Where's the seeding of the worlds, etc. It's a bit like Batman without Alfred. Which makes me wonder if this shouldn't have been an elseworlds.
They are REALLY beating the point home about the 'bratty' kids. But I prefer the Legion when the kids were smarter than the adults. I think the first year of reboot, filled with rich characterisation (XS' crushes, Andromeda's racism, Lyle and Brainy's rivalry) dealt more with the Legion dealing with eachother.
I don't want to know about Invisible Dad, Light Mum, Shadow Grandpa.
I want to get to know these characters...and maybe that says something about me too. Legion is one of the few Superhero comics I still collect.
Posted by lil'rhino on :
Thanks for your wonderful, thoughtful posts, doublechinner! They made my day!
Posted by RTVU2 on :
Hey reservations, Waid has already said that when the 1st issue comes out the LSH has already been established for awhile. Other comments in interviews and in other threads by Barry also talk about the relationships between the Legionnaires. Someone here compared it to being like being in class of 20 people all durning school. There are cliques and some people who are closer then others.
So all the things you have asked are bound to be explained later on. So lets cool our jets and not jump to conclusions here.
Posted by doublechinner on :
Thanks, rhino! Reserv, I respect your points, but I always thought some of the best Legion stories involved the Legionaires dealing with their parents -- from the Legion chain gang (and the parallel Universo/Rond Vidar drama), to ME Lad's lout of a dad, to Colossal Boy's President Mom, to RJ Brande and his son Chameleon Boy, to the death of Cosmic Boy's mom. As a younger reader, I related to the fact that Legionnaires had parents and parental figures to deal with, just like I did. I completely agree with you that not all of the characterization should revolve around the parent/child relationships. But, those relationships ought to be an important part (in some cases) of why someone joins the Legion. If nothing else, seeing the parents REMINDS us that these are still young people creating their own place in the world. In regards to the Waid/Kitson premise feeling "tacked on," my reaction was that they have created a universe that MUST have a Legion, but only time will tell on that one.
Posted by Fat Cramer on :
One parent/child relationship I'd expect to see developed is that of Lyle and his sci-cop dad - since the foundation has already been laid for another confrontation. I'm hoping that there will be some twist to it, however - other than the son-establishes-own-identity-in-confrontation route.
One thing I've noted in previous Legion versions, it's only the kids with the (good) super-powers - which precludes the Legion from doublechinner's categories 1 (sidekicks) or 2 (training for adult superheroes). They're something new for the galaxy, operating in uncharted territory.
But I have wondered where the adult super-powered people have been, apart from assorted villains, throughout Legion history. If Waid is giving us a very tightly-bound society (as it appears), it would make sense that these "rebellious" youths would be the first, in a long time, to use their powers for the public good.
Posted by Faraway Lad on :
I do wonder about the lack of adult super heroes in the old continuity.
However, maybe in this new one the adults have had the desire to conform, to be safe etc so ingrained into them that they have been unable to break free, to put themselves in the way of danger in that showy, spandex way of the Legion. Not to say they are not brave adult heroes out there, some maybe with powers. Just that they have accepted societies mores and do not want to draw attention to themselves, they want to play buy the rules and have the attitude of that senior SP officer who asks for options, and strategies whilst youth simply runs in and hits things. This would mean no fancy costumes; no code names and a much more “grey” conformist attitude than heroes like the JLA tend to show.
As for the existence or otherwise of adult criminals? Maybe they, unlike the legion have not yet discovered a way to get off the tracking system and so can not enter UP space. Despite the fact that the Legion gets the better of the SP in the pages we have seen so far, these SP’s look like they are well able to handle various threats and the fact that they exist at all indicates that they are needed.
Yet even if a Lightning Lord or a Cosmic King existed in this continuity they would be “tagged” or whatever it is and therefore visible to the law no matter where they hid. True, they would cause a lot of damage, kill a lot of SP’s but eventually they would work out that a society willing to give up so much to be “safe” would not leave them free and I think they would flee outside UP space where they would be less likely to suffer attack or arrest.
Or maybe it is true and it takes super powered heroes to arise before superpower villains can exist?
Posted by Jorg-El on :
NC those animations look amazing!
Jorge
Posted by Quislet on :
I like the return to a cleaner, better defined look for the Legion -- it often seemed to me that Coipel drew shadows or messy piles of slime or rubble to avoid having to flesh out the backgrounds or giving us a well thought out version of the 3000's.
But I'm a little apprehensive - it feels a bit too 'Elseworlds' at this stage.
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
With the the additional pages from Legion of Super-Heroes #1. Which were included in DC Horizon #20 (Oct 2004), a free publication given out at Cons and Comic Shops. Since it's free, I think it's okay to display here.
Posted by Blacula on :
Can I be the first to say WOW!!!
Barry's art BLOWS ME AWAY!!! He is definitely doing his best ever work here! Absolutely beautiful pencils! And for all my worries about the colouring that looks top-notch too.
And what can I say about the writing - loved it! Waid has obviously put a HUGE amount of thought into this. The writing is intelligent, exciting and fun. With action and characterisation. Its even got little things to love like the way Ayla and Jo flew off with the sci-cops helmets. And I absolutely loved the way we got introductory glimpses of Ayla, Jo and Gim before the full page spread of them.
This series deserves to be a HUGE success IMO and you know what - I think it just might be! CANNOT WAIT til the end of December!
Posted by lil'rhino on :
Faboo!
Posted by Blacula on :
By the way, is that an upside-down rocketship headquarters I see in the last panel?!? ... Oh my!
The anti-retro brigade are gonna hate it! I, of course, am thrilled! Posted by Yellow Kid on :
-he he- I hadn't noticed that. Good eye B.
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
I missed it as well. Nice touch!
Posted by EuroMutt on :
I woulda liked it more if it were a yellow upside-down rocket ship, but hey...
I'm pretty groved by the preivew. I like the banter between the characters, and the visuals are great. I know I've been cautiously optomistic, and I will remain that way for the first year or so, but there's definatly something awsome here.
I still wish there was away for the other two Legions to still be around in some offical capacity, other than lost in Hyper-Time (or on a parallel earth, or whatever you prefer to call the Multiverse that is the DCU). But I guess I will have to be content with them living on in back issues and in my sketch books.
Long Live the Legion!
Posted by SiliconDream on :
I must say, it gave me a little thrill to see the SP refer to the LSH as "the Core Team." And Star Boy's costume is sweet.
Much more than cautiously optimistic, meself.
Posted by joe mondo on :
Love the upside down rocket ship.
I heard about it before I saw it, and couldn't imagine how they'd make it work - but they did. really beautifully.
Waid and Kitson have far exceeded my every expectation thus far.
Posted by Loser Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by EuroMutt: I woulda liked it more if it were a yellow upside-down rocket ship, but hey...
Maybe they can work it in as a story point. The Legion recruiting a few of their 75,000 followers to paint the old HQ!
Oh! And don't forget to make the fins red! Posted by EuroMutt on :
quote:Originally posted by Loser Lad:
quote:Originally posted by EuroMutt: I woulda liked it more if it were a yellow upside-down rocket ship, but hey...
Maybe they can work it in as a story point. The Legion recruiting a few of their 75,000 followers to paint the old HQ!
Oh! And don't forget to make the fins red!
or they could just get Color Kid to do it in one fell swoop without paint...
Posted by Semi Transparent Fellow on :
Colossal Boy - big puppy wanting to please. I'm going to like him. Posted by doublechinner on :
It's so thrilling to see the Legion written as real, individual characters again. Levitz was a master at incorporating exposition into dialogue. It looks like Waid is perfecting that trick, as well. This is key to making the Legion "accessible" to the new reader. In a few short pages we learn about almost every character's power and a lot about their personalities and relationships with each other. Just outstanding!
Barry's characters just LOOK like Legionnaires again. I can't think of another way to express it. I don't think I had realized my dislike for the homogenous uniforms of the last 10 years until I saw Barry draw the Legionnaires as individuals again.
I was shocked, actually, by the drab gray upside-down rocket HQ. I can understand why everything is drab and gray, given the society Waid and Kitson have imagined, but it just seems wrong to an old-timer like me. I might have preferred an all-new club-house style.
Posted by doublechinner on :
Another interesting twist! The Legion is actually endorsed by the United Planets, even though the majority of the society seems to disapprove. That should make for an interesting story! Does the Legion have friends in high places? Did the Legion save the lives of some UP bigwigs? Is the UP trying to shake up the society that presumably put it in power? Stay tuned!
Posted by Cham55 on :
Some rather adult dialogue between Ultra Boy and Light Lass ... 31st Century innuendo seems rather akin to our own ....
Posted by MYG on :
I am actually excited about the Legion again...and it's been a long time since that's happened. I picked up on the "adult dialogue" as well...great stuff! Great art as well. Could this be a sign of greatness from the 1980's Giffen/Levitz era?!? I hope so!
Posted by ferroboy on :
I'm also excited. I remember _not_ being excited about the last reboot. It's saying something that I'm so interested this time around.
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
With images from a new interview with Mark Waid by Arune Singh of CBR. The interview can be found here.
Posted by ferroboy on :
This was an awesome article, but I already commented on it Here, so I won't repeat myself. I'll just say that it makes me even more excited!
Posted by huntdrouin on :
Damn! I just can't help myself from reading everything I can and looking at any new images! Thankfully, the first issue is 30 pages or I wouldn't have anything new to read.
I CAN'T WAIT!!! (I feel 14 again, ha)
Posted by Mearl Dox on :
Ha ha ha, he's one of Brainy's "recruits." Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha.
Okay, I'll knock that off now.
Posted by Yellow Kid on :
For some reason I can't get the CBR images to load. I wait and wait and get the ads that cycle through then they just stop loading. Can they go into one of our preview threads here? Please?
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Already done YK. If you just look above for my last post you'll see the link back to page one of this thread.
Posted by Yellow Kid on :
Doh!
I clicked the wrong link in your post. Thanks!
I got to read this at WW Dallas in b/w and I am SO looking forward to the book in color. Do you have any idea how hard it is NOT to answer questions or address some of the issues raised by excited fans?
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
I also changed the new Chameleon smiley to Chameleon3 rather than ChameleonBoy3. I wonder if I'll need to fix Atom Girl, Brainiac 5, or Colossal Boy's smilies?
Posted by MYG on :
The new images of the first Legion issue are great. Legionnaires sitting around, socializing between "missions", etc...this IS my old Legion of Superheroes!!!
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
I see chess, I see foosball ... but no D&D?!? Waid really is starting from scratch...!!
Posted by Portfolio Boy on :
Is that Atom Girl on the table between the two laptops? If so, who are the other two figures? Or perhaps are any/all just action figures?
Is that a DC Comics spinner rack Micro Lad is looking over?
I still can't figure out who is sitting next to Sensor Girl. There are no male, all black costumes with capes that I can think of.
Posted by MYG on :
I liked the exchange between Light Lass and Ultra Boy when she was thinking up a name for the new member. Do they really have that many members that she had to ask if the name "Invisible Kid" was already being used? Ultra Boy replied that the name "Phamton Girl" is being used though. This is really great stuff so far!
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
for the new stuff. Posted by Pizza Delivery Girl on :
Heh. By the time Dec 29 comes, *all* the pages will be up here.
Not that I'm complaining.
Posted by ferroboy on :
I haven't even looked at any of them beyond the initial preview pages. I'd rather be surprised in nine days.
Posted by Yellow Kid on :
Only 9 days left? We'd better hurry up and get organized! Ok, ok van keys blankets voter's registration forms fake passports road beers map ...waitaminnit, where are we going again?
Posted by Lame Lad on :
Wow...Looks nice. And fresh too.
I think I may like this brave new world.
Posted by The Man From Cargg on :
The Light Lass / Invisible Kid interplay reminded me of pre-boot Lightning Lass flirting with and teasing newbie Magnetic Kid. I'm kind of surprised that she implies that she has dated both Sun Boy and Ultra Boy. I would have expected this behaviour more from Dream Girl. Maybe Nura will be the lesbian this time around. Won't that drive the guys crazy???
Posted by ferroboy on :
quote:Originally posted by Yellow Kid: Only 9 days left? We'd better hurry up and get organized! Ok, ok van keys blankets voter's registration forms fake passports road beers map ...waitaminnit, where are we going again?
Canada World. That's where you go to avoid the UP draft. Posted by Lame Lad on :
On the upside, I noticed in the previews that Shadow Lass doesn't look as much like someone suffering from oxygen deprivation and is a deeper shade of blue than it looked originally.
Posted by Rurouni KJS on :
That preview was great. Very expository without *looking* like exposition. Waid's got his "A" game going, looks like...
And let me add that Sun Boy's costume looks entirely better now that it's properly colored.
[ December 22, 2004, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: Rurouni KJS ]
Posted by disaster boy on :
i like how dream girl is at the bar in that lounge!
Posted by Hamz on :
Well.....I couldnt help myself....the temptation was too great and I read an advance copy of issue # 1. It is FANTASTIC!!! I was afraid it would be a let down because I have been so excited about the book for months now. Mr Waid and Mr Kitson have done an excellent job. The book receives a very positive thumbs up from this long time (33 yrs)Legion fan.
Posted by ferroboy on :
Glad to hear it, Hamz. Too bad you have to wait a week to discuss it with the rest of us. Posted by Hamz on :
I know, Ferro. :-( I'm even more excited about the book than I was before (which I didnt think was possible)and I have to hold it in for 7 more days.
Posted by Yellow Kid on :
I know exactly how you feel bubba. I got to read the preview at WW Dallas and it's been killing me NOT to answer some of the questions and make comments. It's ok though, we only have a week to go. I'll bet this place just explodes with activity next wednesday.
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I, of course, am thrilled! ![[Bump]](graemlins/bump.gif)