[ September 12, 2005, 09:02 AM: Message edited by: Eryk Davis Ester ]
Posted by Quislet, Esq. on :
Paris Hilton
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
there's no shortage unfortunately.
Dillinger wouldn't be on the top of my list.
[ September 12, 2005, 10:24 AM: Message edited by: Tamper Lad ]
Posted by Stealth on :
and...Joe Quesada.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
John Byrne
Posted by Chaim Mattis Keller on :
Vlad "the Impaler" Dracula. The real guy, who was horrible enough without fictionalizing him as a vampire.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Chaim Mattis Keller: Vlad "the Impaler" Dracula. The real guy, who was horrible enough without fictionalizing him as a vampire.
Depends on who you are asking. The man was a hero, still is, for millions in Romania.
Posted by disaster boy on :
how am i the first to add.....
W
Posted by baycent54 on :
Two words (or whatever): Bin Laden
Posted by googoomuck on :
Since Bush I equated Hitler and Saddam, it's got to be Saddam Hussein.
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
Allan Klein
Posted by legionadventureman on :
John Wayne Gacy?
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
Nash?
Posted by legionadventureman on :
Ted Bundy?
Posted by disaster boy on :
oh i almost forgot....
Columbus killed more people than most of the people on our list put together.
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
Sure if you subscribe to that particular revisionist interpretation of history.
Since I tend to see history in conservative terms, that gets a big I dunno from me. Not that I'm dismissive of the wrongs that europeans did to native americans, but the idea that natives were noble savages in harmony with nature is patently ridiculous.
If you don't believe me where are the sabretooth tigers, wooly mammoths, and old north american horses? Though agrarian/industrial European civilization no doubt accelerated America's great mass extinction, the process began long ago with the native hunter-Gatherers.
Posted by Jorg-EM on :
There are a great many villains in history. Many historical "heroes" can now be seen as villains. Different time and different age. Before political correctness.
"Atilla you cannot behead the entire village because that is racist." Just didn't make much sense back then. doh!
Anyways my choice? Man there are just so many. I wanna say Caligula. Genghis Khan and Mahmud of Ghazni (India) have been mentioned as committing genocide on a historical level.
I'll go with Genghis Khan. Cool scary name.
Posted by Stealth on :
...Mark Millar
...Brian Michael Bendis
...Garth Ennis
Posted by Chaim Mattis Keller on :
I was considering saying Genghis Khan, but I didn't want to include a conqueror with Hitler and Nero. Sure, he killed a lot of people, but, nasty as it was, he was getting something for it - he was gaining land and expanding his empire. We frown upon expansionalist national policy now, of course, but in the old days, that was the way things worked...it was a fact of life. You either defended your turf, or it becomes the turf of the stronger guy next door.
Hitler was a conqueror, true, but most of the murders committed by his command were of no strategic value (i.e., the death camps and concentration camps). Nero's crime was of indifference to his own people's suffering, not of killings committed against his people's enemies.
That said, I have to agree that Dracula doesn't fit. He was brutal and sadistic, but he defended his people. Bin Laden or Saddam are nice choices, but I was thinking of someone who might have been used in the original story in Dillinger's place, which means that someone writing in 1963 should have thought of them. That also excludes Pol Pot. Joe Stalin makes a pretty good candidate, though the extent of his crimes probably wasn't well-known back then. So, I'll say...
Tomas Torquemada.
Posted by Quislet, Esq. on :
quote:Originally posted by Chaim Mattis Keller: but I was thinking of someone who might have been used in the original story in Dillinger's place, which means that someone writing in 1963 should have thought of them.
So I guess that rules out my suggestion of Paris Hilton.
Posted by RTVU2 on :
quote:Originally posted by Tamper Lad: Sure if you subscribe to that particular revisionist interpretation of history.
Since I tend to see history in conservative terms, that gets a big I dunno from me. Not that I'm dismissive of the wrongs that europeans did to native americans, but the idea that natives were noble savages in harmony with nature is patently ridiculous.
If you don't believe me where are the sabretooth tigers, wooly mammoths, and old north american horses? Though agrarian/industrial European civilization no doubt accelerated America's great mass extinction, the process began long ago with the native hunter-Gatherers.
True. But this is not about revisionist history. It's about seeing things from an unbias slant and examining things from no set point of view. Examine the facts from both sides, not just one.
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
I will repeat the quote I was commenting on?
"Columbus killed more people than most of the people on our list put together"
Did Columbus personally order the conquistadors to come over? Did he purposefully trade smallpox contaminated goods to weaken native resolve. Did he fence natives in on reserves all over the new world?
Do you honestly believe that if I was in a Spanish Port in 1492 and I ran Columbus through the heart with a sabre that there wouldn't have been a another man that sailed in his place in 1492 or 93 or 94. Do you think that it would have turned out differently if I could do this?
Um no, Columbus didn't kill the natives of the new world. He wasn't even essential to the "voyage of discovery". In 1492 there were massive forces in Europe (the final expulsion of the Moors from Europe, the unification of Spain under Ferdinand and Isabella, the fall of Constantinople to the Turks) that would have forced the voyage within a generation.
The truth is that European greed and racism doomed American natives, not the scapegoat that people want to make out of Columbus who was neither a hero nor villain, just another interchangeable cog in the history of Europe.
Posted by Chaim Mattis Keller on :
Well, let's not downplay Columbus's bravery in willing to risk sailing into the unknown in the conviction that he's eventually hit the Indies. The late fifteenth century was the beginning of the Age of Discovery, but until Columbus dared guess there was land beyond the Atlantic, all the explorers were sticking securely (if not safely) to the African coastline to find a way around the Cape of Good Hope.
No doubt someone else would have come along and figured it out or dared to brave it if Columbus hadn't, but that's akin to saying someone would have figured out gravity if Newton hadn't. Give Columbus some personal credit for being the guy who actually did.
Posted by Jorg-EM on :
One man's conqueror is another's defender.
From what I understand Genghis Khan was no cup cake. Infact probably most of the ancient guys were just as bad a Hitler or worse.
Genghis Khan still causes fear in people methinks. Ok maybe he just scares me. lol
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
So... did we agree upon Paris Hilton?
Posted by Set on :
More recent stuff about Genghis Khan suggests that he was more of an administrator than a warrior. He organized a group of people who had spent the last couple thousand years wandering around killing the hell out of each other, and united them to kill the hell out of everyone else instead.
I'd use Stalin, Pol Pot, Vlad the Impaler or Torquemada for that third name.
Heck, I'd even take Nero off of the list for any of those. Rome had way worse Emperors than Nero. Just look at the Year of the Five Emperors & the Severan dynasty (nine emperors in a row, eight of which were murdered by each other, the army, or executed on orders of the Senate!)
Paris Hilton doesn't belong on that list. She's not mere human evil, she's something elemental.
Posted by Malvolio on :
Lord Protector of the Realm, Oliver Cromwell.
Posted by Rockhopper Lad on :
...Marcia Brady.
Posted by He Who LSHes on :
... Harpo Marx
Posted by Power Boy on :
ME!!!!!!
Posted by Pov on :
quote:Originally posted by Rockhopper Lad: ...Marcia Brady.
Marsha, Marsha, Marsha... Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
She's a Carggite? Posted by Kid Quislet on :
Harpo Marx was a comedic genius!
So was Marcia Brady for that matter, but in a different sort of ABC Family way...
Posted by duck458 on :
Soulja Boy Tell 'Em
Posted by future king on :
Ummmmmm, I have to go with Britiney Spears on this one (and I don't care if I spelled her name wrong, ok?).
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
Ho chi min. the current little tin pot dictator of North Korea that's starving his own people. Idi Amin?
History is resplendent with narcissitic idealogs that wiped out thousands and millions. Stalin and Lenin.
then of course there are the cultural cruelties purpetrated by guys like John Tesh and Madonna.
Posted by future king on :
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