Diamond says that IC #1 ships today even though the US had a Monday holiday this week. My shop isn't open yet so I don't know if they got their books. But I do know our friends to the North have their copies today.
So, this is our official spoiler thread. Let's hear some spoilers! Posted by Tamper Lad on :
Okay, the big spoiler is that the DC in Demand Page states that (in the wake of Ultimate Marvel's success) ANNUALS ARE BACK starting next February with Teen Titans annual 1, then in March Batman Annual 25.
[ October 12, 2005, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: Tamper Lad ]
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
Plot summary of TT Annual 1 wonders aloud that with the big three at each other's throats can Conner and Cassie find Romance? Looks like a cool play on the Romeo and Juliet Theme.
Okay seriously.
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
In IC#1 the heroes are a mess. The big three are arguing in the ruins of the watchtower while J'onn is missing. No reveal on who the stranger at the end of the JLA arc is though. They get attacked by Mongul.
The Freedom Fighters fight the Society and are brutally beaten. Fans of the Freedom Fighters might not like the outcome here.
The whole issue is narrated by the timelost hero shown on the final version of the IC#2 cover. He's been watching the universe and is not too pleased about the state of the DCU. He is especially critical of the Big Three and Kon-El.
Posted by Stratum on :
some quick questions/comments after reading the issue:
(SPOLIERS!)
Did Damage die in the big villain battle? I couldn't tell.
I know who the others at the end of the issue are, but is the Superboy the SA Superboy or what?
Did it seem to anyone else that the earth-three Lex (Alexi) is manipulating the earth-2 Superman? I know he was a good guy back in COIE, but maybe all those years languishing in lombo, just watching things messed with his head.
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
This Superboy is from Earth-Prime. Besides Ultra, he's the only superhuman from that reality. His first appearance and his only real appearance beyond Crisis and its related titles is DC COMICS PRESENTS #87.
[ October 12, 2005, 06:22 PM: Message edited by: Nightcrawler ]
Posted by legionadventureman on :
Besides Superboy, wasn't it established in an issue of JLA that the staff of DC were also from Earth-Prime? Folk like Carmine Infantino, Julius Schwartz, Cary Bates and Elliot Maggin made an appearence in one of the JLA/JSA team-ups.
[ October 12, 2005, 07:03 PM: Message edited by: legionadventureman ]
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
Yes.
Which means, of course, that they were all killed in the Crisis.
Along with every one of us.
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
But then why do I remember the multiverse?
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
Because you're a Hypertime version of you from a universe where Crisis didn't happen.
Posted by legionadventureman on :
A paradox, a most ingenious paradox...
Posted by Rockhopper Lad on :
I love a good paradox.
Posted by superboymddjr on :
three of my favorite characters are now officially dead. Posted by Jorg-EM on :
SPOILERS (post IC spoilers)
Geoff has mentioned that Ray and Damage will not die in Q&A. He also mentioned having plans for Ray. As a Ray fan...I want him to join the JSA!
As for the rest of the FF? Doesn't look good dos it. Phantom Lady was so damn hot.
Posted by rjbrande on :
It's odd that, after reading IC, I headed here. Nice that there's a thread :)
My overwhelming reaction to IC #1 is: eh.
Bats, Diana, and Supes at each other's throats. I was tired of that by 1988 or so. I thought one of the very few good things to come out of Crisis was Perez's Wonder Woman. I haven't followed her title for years now - good to know that Perez's Diana is completely gone now. I only buy a couple of titles every month these days, so I'm not current on the DCU. I take it Conner is still gnashing his teeth over being a clone? Great. Was Ratcatcher an existing character, or was he created specifically to kill? The Rann-Thanagar War - another concept that leaves me thoroughly uninterested. Even the possibility of a L.E.G.I.O.N. appearance couldn't get me to buy this. The Spectre run amok - been done before, and done better.
And I have to mention that the improbable location of Diana's sword with respect to Supe's body has bothered since my first glance at that panel. I'm pretty sure it couldn't get to where it is without passing through Supes' body. Even using comic book physics.
Gratuitous deaths (some only referenced from other mini's): Max Lord, Ratcatcher, the Wizard Shazam & the Rock of Eternity (though Marvin and Adam both still conveniently have their powers), Uncle Sam, the Human Bomb, Phantom Lady, Black Condor, Dr. Polaris. Yeah, body count always makes me feel that a story is more important.
By the time the splash page with Mr. and Mrs. Superman, Superboy Prime, and Alexander Luthor rolled around I was too disaffected to care. The only way that could have seemed hopeful to me after the preceding carnage was if we saw the multiple earths in the background.
Prediction - the multiple earths aren't coming back, but unless they're killed in the course of the series we have opened up that last few pre-Crisis characters to eventual, inevitable grim & gritty reinterpretation. Judging from the cover to #2 though, this series will finally cure me of my irrational love of the Power Girl character.
Looking back over my post, I know it sounds negative, but I don't really feel negative about it - I just don't really care. About the fate of the DCU, the individual characters, the deaths, the return of much beloved icons, the multiverse tease - nothing.
I'll pick up the rest of the series (probabably), because it is going to set some rules going forward. As of issue #1 though, it's just solidified my opinion that the Legion needs to be as isolated as possible from the mainstream DCU. Even aside from the continuity messes that are always created, there are way too many characters from Legion history that are just recognizable enough to make it worth some writers' while to kill to make their story "important".
Posted by ferroboy on :
quote:Originally posted by KidChaos: some quick questions/comments after reading the issue:
(SPOLIERS!)
Did Damage die in the big villain battle? I couldn't tell.
It didn't look like it to me. I was disappointed to see Black Condor die but glad the Ray made it.
quote:I know who the others at the end of the issue are, but is the Superboy the SA Superboy or what?
The Superboy of Earth-Prime. He was introduced in an issue of DC Comics Presents shortly before CoIE began.
quote:Did it seem to anyone else that the earth-three Lex (Alexi) is manipulating the earth-2 Superman? I know he was a good guy back in COIE, but maybe all those years languishing in lombo, just watching things messed with his head.
Alexi is dead. Alex is alive and a good guy from what I've seen. He has no reason to go bad since the sum total of his life was: birth, sent off to the Monitor as his universe dies, rapid aging, working to save the remaining universes, trapped in "paradise" with Superboy, Superman, and Lois Kent. Also, I didn't see evidence of any sort of Lex-related manipulation outside of Villains United.
Posted by ferroboy on :
quote:Originally posted by Outdoor Miner: Yes.
Which means, of course, that they were all killed in the Crisis.
Along with every one of us.
Nah. We're not Earth-Prime because our world was never visited by super-heroes and doesn't feature *any* super-powered beings.
Posted by Stratum on :
quote: As for the rest of the FF? Doesn't look good dos it. Phantom Lady was so damn hot.
Well, a few are definitely out. But Ray and Damage appear to have survived and I think that Uncle Sam is immortal. Human Bomb is probably dead but unlike CoIE, they just show him being severly beaten and not dead from a shadow demon or somesuch.
Jamie
Posted by Stratum on :
quote:Bats, Diana, and Supes at each other's throats. I was tired of that by 1988 or so. I thought one of the very few good things to come out of Crisis was Perez's Wonder Woman. I haven't followed her title for years now - good to know that Perez's Diana is completely gone now. I only buy a couple of titles every month these days, so I'm not current on the DCU. I take it Conner is still gnashing his teeth over being a clone? Great. Was Ratcatcher an existing character, or was he created specifically to kill? The Rann-Thanagar War - another concept that leaves me thoroughly uninterested. Even the possibility of a L.E.G.I.O.N. appearance couldn't get me to buy this. The Spectre run amok - been done before, and done better.
Conner's problem is that he has to get over the fact that Luthor created him to be his weapon. Now he's afraid that he's more Luthor than Kent. It'll come in time, I think.
Geoff Johns said in his Q&A that issue one sets up the status quo of the series and that issue 2 things will be explained.
Jamie
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Did anyone else notice that the first half of the book featured what appeared to be red skies?
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
I came late to the DCU, so I read CoIE only in hc form a few years ago. Maybe I misunderstood the ending. But the returning characters weren't coming from an alternate Earth were they? They came from somewhere outside the time stream (ugh this is going to hurt.) They even said the sacrifice they made has been wasted; that sort of implies the lack of a multiverse.
So their return doesn't guarantee a returne of multiple Earths does it?
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
Outside that little side bar...
Great start to the series. I liked the way they blended the FF storyline with the Trinity storyline. It was a weird sort of synchronicity that was demonstrated when I watched LOST laster that night.
So many questions I have to ask right now, and I'm guessing in one month's time, I will only have more.
Posted by disaster boy on :
i just read this...i am a bit confused and feel like...its trying to do too much. multiverse returning or not...i just want to read good stories.
if this were an "elseworlds" i might enjoy it a lot more, but it seems like it has too much on its shoulders to ever live up to. even if i thought it was spectacular.
why do they return now, how is the dc universe worse than it ever has been before since crisis? i confess i havent been keeping up and am not a huge dc fan. or get amny of their books...
well i will have to wait until issue two or three to see if any of the jaded things i think about events like this are true. i wnat to like it, i hope its good....
Posted by MLLASH on :
OH MY FREAKIN'...!!!!!!!!!!
Just read it, gotta respond then read this thread.
The 2-page spreads with Nightwing and the OMACs and especially the villains facing the Freedom Fighters were exceptional. I knew when I saw Bizarro that they were goners. A damned scary image.
I don't believe Damage and Uncle Sam are dead, and we know Ray isn't. But even though this wasn't the Black Condor and Phantom Lady I loved in the 70s, it was rough watching their namesakes die.
That was the original Human Bomb, though. Man, that was not fun to watch.
The Bat/Super/Wonder drama is interesting.
So far, so good.
Is anyone keeping a IC DEATH LIST?
Heroes
BLACK CONDOR PHANTOM LADY HUMAN BOMB (the jury's out on Uncle Sam and Damage)
Villains
DOCTOR POLARIS
Posted by disaster boy on :
my understanding is that psycho pirate wanted damage alive for some reason. "luthor needs you alive" maybe alex luthor?
i kinda like WW's new ruthlessness.
the wizard shazam was said to be dead. but i didnt see a body.
how could you forget the "ratcatcher" Posted by Nightcrawler on :
quote:Originally posted by disaster boy: my understanding is that psycho pirate wanted damage alive for some reason. "luthor needs you alive" maybe alex luthor?
That was the Ray, BTW.
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
quote:Originally posted by ferroboy: Nah. We're not Earth-Prime because our world was never visited by super-heroes and doesn't feature *any* super-powered beings.
Then explain Oprah.
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
quote:Originally posted by Stratum: But Ray and Damage appear to have survived and I think that Uncle Sam is immortal.
Uncle Sam akways seemed more like a concept given form than an actual individual - he's easy to revive or update.
Posted by legionadventureman on :
quote:Originally posted by Outdoor Miner:
quote:Originally posted by Stratum: But Ray and Damage appear to have survived and I think that Uncle Sam is immortal.
Uncle Sam akways seemed more like a concept given form than an actual individual - he's easy to revive or update.
He's like the embodiment of the American idea of the Declaration of Independance...
Posted by disaster boy on :
quote:Originally posted by Nightcrawler:
quote:Originally posted by disaster boy: my understanding is that psycho pirate wanted damage alive for some reason. "luthor needs you alive" maybe alex luthor?
That was the Ray, BTW.
my bad. definately was the ray. they look very similar amongst the carnage...i missed psycho pirate spelling it out for me by calling him "Ray".
i'm not up on damage but dosn't he have a force field? ie: why could reverse flash kick his butt?
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
random reactions: -- I'm glad they threw in the direct tie to CoIE right away rather than draw it out. -- Am I the only one who thinks Superman2's opinions were meant to be reflective of fandom's (or some of them) attitude to the current DCU? -- In that scene where the four mystery characters are silhouetted, I think there's a mistake. The silhouette that looks like Superman says "And if we don't get involved... there will be no earth to worry about." But then the narrator says, "He's not right. He can't be." But the narrator is revealed to be Superman2. Was there a mistake with the word balloons? Was that Alex saying that end of the world stuff?? -- As a GL fan, I'm sorry to see Dr Polaris go more than any of the heroes that died. -- Why is Wonder Woman getting all Wolverine on us? Killing Max Lord is one thing, but diving in for the kill on an unconscious Mongul? What's up with her? -- Amazing art, btw. It really provides the epic scope this title needs. -- Am I the only one who's reminded of The Agents from the Matrix the way the OMAC's "take over" their host body?
FYI -- Anyone interested in the fate of J'onn J'onnz should pick up the latest JLA (it takes place right before IC #1).
[ October 13, 2005, 08:38 PM: Message edited by: DrakeB3004 ]
Posted by armsfalloffboy on :
I have some issues here. I will pick up the Crisis books, but I have refused to fall into the trap of buying all these tie-in books. Can someone help me answer some basic questions?
1. Villains United. I get that the Villains are uniting, but why, under who, and why are they killing so many of the other villains?
2. OMAC. I understand Bats is somehow involved, and defense of humanity is involved, but why are they killing heroes?
3. Disagreements between Supes, Bats, and Wondy. Why? Wonder Woman killed somebody?
4. Can someone explain the mindwiping thing to me? Is there a retcon saying that the League has been doing this all along? Is this a source of the conflict between the heroes?
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
1. Lex Luthor is uniting the villains. Somehow, It appears to be pre-crisis Earth-1 Lex doing this. DCU Lex is around too, they are working to foil each other's plans using heroes and other villains as pawns. Pre-crisis Lex is planning something huge against the heroes.
2. Batman mistrusts the other Justice Leaguers because of number (4) he built OMAC to spy on and maintain protocols to check the power of metahumans. Max Lord stole it from him and has been reclaiming the Earth for normal humans from the self proclaimed gods.
3. Max Lord used his powers to take control of Superman who almost killed Batman in a psychotic delusion. Wonder Woman saw no alternative to save Supes. Batman is bitter than Supes did nothing all these years and both Bats and Supes are against killing.
4. The league has been wiping memories from villains since the silver age. However in Identity Crisis there was a retcon. Dr. Light came aboard the satellite raped Sue Dibny and threatened everyone else's family. Zatanna went beyond just taking memories from Dr. Light and lobotomized him at Hawkman's suggestion.
Batman arrived on the scene late and tried to stop the League from doing this, so they wiped his memory of the incident too, to save the league from self-destructing. Superman wasn't there but he knew what they did to Bruce and did nothing.
[ October 14, 2005, 08:48 AM: Message edited by: Tamper Lad ]
Posted by Igee The Mighty on :
So many things running through this issue. In my mind:
1. Villains United
It seems that the villains have actually started to take the heroes down actively as a collective, with the Freedom Fighters being first in line. Deathstroke's such a bad-@$$!
2. Trinity Breaks
It appears the mushy side of this 3-way relationship has gone sour. Thing is, I can believe Batman when he says that there are other options besides killing. This comes from a guy who's seen a partner killed, an "associate" crippled, and other similar tragedies. Best line has got to be Batman's address to Superman: "--the last time you really inspired anyone--was when you were dead." Wonder Woman, IMO, did the right thing.
3. The Crisis Holdovers
Back in the day of CoIE#12, I thought Alex Luthor brought E2/Superman + Lois & EP/Superboy to the great beyond...well, it appears that they haven't really gone that far. Apart from these 4, in "Return of Donna Troy" we're led to believe that Troia used to be Harbinger and that now she's aware of the multiverse's existence. Over at JSA Classified, it appears that Power Girl is another, as well as Psycho Pirate. I wonder where all this is leading up to...
30 frikkin' days...such a looooong wait for InC#2!!!!!!!
Posted by MLLASH on :
I'm with Wonder Woman too.
The blood of all the innocents Batman's foes have murdered is permanently tatooed on his hands, IMO. Especially irreedmable scum like The Joker.
Posted by the boy with UltraPowers on :
WOW !!!
i the first issue !!!
amazing artwork by Phil and Geoff's story so far is great, the infighting of the BIG THREE was really good [ and i'd go as far as saying i'm of DIANA's opinion, in regards to what needs to be done with certain villians ]
i have a few questions though .....
on the page before the BIG reveal, when [ ALEX i presume is whispering in the ear of SUPERMAN E2, who is the she he is refering to !!?? it can't be his LOIS, as she's with them ??
and as we're seen a 2nd LEX in "VILLAINS UNITED" !!?? when do you guys think he first appeared ??
every time weve seen LEX in his BATTLESUIT has this been the other one ??? is he the one that is following SUPERGIRL ??
can't wait for issue 2 .....
Matthew.
Posted by CreativityKid on :
The last page blew me away ...
The people on it weren't a surprise; I'd read the spoilers.
But the "THIS looks like a job for Superman." And the pose!
I was 16 when COIE came out. I felt like 16 again today.
THIS is a Superman I can love. And who I'd follow into battle.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
Very exciting beginning- with a suitably surprising last page. Who else is digging out their old issues of CRISIS?
I ain't counting anybody dead till it's confirmed on-panel. It looks bad for Phantom Lady, Human Bomb and Black Condor especially- but who knows? Maybe that site was near one of Ra's al Ghul's water of youth fountain thingies.
Uncle Sam will be back. He's gotta be. Though he might be unrecognizeable when we first see him. (Even as her?) The Ray's gonna be featured (a substitute for Firestorm?), so he's got more torture to endure and for us to look forward to. Damage- tossed off to the side. I'll bet he regains consciousness and returns just in time to pull Uncle Sam from the water-- and to check on the other Fighters.
I wonder what significance there is that this team- the Freedom Fighters- are the first to 'fall'... hmmm?
The spreads featuring Bat-spectre, Nightwing and the Omacs (who should've formed into a bat-symbol!!! Ha!), and the war in space were beautiful. Phil Jimenez is doing some stellar work, here. Wonder what he'll be doing after the 7 issues are done? I look forward to that. Bet it won't feature hordes of characters, though.
[ October 14, 2005, 08:37 PM: Message edited by: Mystery Lad ]
Posted by ferroboy on :
quote:Originally posted by the boy with UltraPowers: and as we're seen a 2nd LEX in "VILLAINS UNITED" !!?? when do you guys think he first appeared ??
every time weve seen LEX in his BATTLESUIT has this been the other one ??? is he the one that is following SUPERGIRL ??
Matthew, based on VU #6, it looks like the regular DCU Lex is the one in the battlesuit. E1 Lex has only shown, so far as we know, in VU.
Posted by Bicycle Repair Man on :
quote:Originally posted by the boy with UltraPowers: on the page before the BIG reveal, when [ ALEX i presume ] is whispering in the ear of SUPERMAN E2, who is the "she" he is refering to !!?? it can't be his LOIS, as she's with them ??
Could be Power Girl, who was originally the cousin (and only living relative) of the Earth-2 Superman (and may still be, depending on what happens in JSA: Classified 4).
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
I'm going to guess the "she" is Power Girl. She'll be the E2 Supergirl all grown up.
So how is mind wiping going to fit into all this? It's too big a plot point for them not to make use of it at some point. Maybe the entire DCU gets mind wiped, and one year later starts everyoen all over again w/o having to reboot.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by DrakeB3004: random reactions: -- Am I the only one who thinks Superman2's opinions were meant to be reflective of fandom's (or some of them) attitude to the current DCU?
I think you're totally spot on Drake, and that's what they're doing. Batman's speech to Superman too (which was great IMO).
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: Very exciting beginning- with a suitably surprising last page. Who else is digging out their old issues of CRISIS?
I just reread #1-5, and am rereading the rest now. I just had to.
Loved the first issue and really enjoyed the surprise ending, even though I spoiled myself recently.
Sad to see some of the deaths, but I expected there would be some I didn't like. Hope the Ray survives!
I also thought Uncle Sam fought pretty valiantly against the powerhouse group he was fighting: Deathstroke, Zoom, Cheetah, Black Adam, Sinestro, etc. After his appearances in the Spectre series of the 90's, he's potentially as powerful as Superman and the Spectre, so we'll prob see more of him.
I think DC has done a good job of making some of these villains truly scary and chilling: I know Psycho Pirate worries me, and Sinestro, Zoom, and others are scary. Dr. Light, of course, is the scariest. Still waiting for Hawkman to behead him.
Art was simply amazing.
Eagerly awaiting the Anti-Monitor to show up in the rift in space now Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by Jorg-EM: SPOILERS (post IC spoilers)
Geoff has mentioned that Ray and Damage will not die in Q&A. He also mentioned having plans for Ray. As a Ray fan...I want him to join the JSA!
As for the rest of the FF? Doesn't look good dos it. Phantom Lady was so damn hot.
Jorg, just saw this and I'm relieved and thrilled. I'm a big Ray fan and hope stuff is in store for him.
Since its not the original Phantom Lady, I assume they could always just make another, especially given how famous that costume is.
Oh, and I should have mentioned above, I cannot wait until the big three problems are finally resolved by the end of this. With Geoff writing, those should be some solid scenes.
Posted by Stargazer on :
I enjoyed this issue as well. Geoff rocks. I too noticed the red skies and wondered why mention has not been made. I guess as the series moves along we will have more deaths. I guess its a way to leave the name as new characters are gonna be introduced.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
Wasn't Dr. Polaris revealed to be Damage's uncle or something? Maybe in the Titans' series before the current one?
Sorry if someone else has brought this up already...
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Yeah, I'm pretty sure he was in Damage's own series. Actually, I think its more complicated than that, but hell if I can remember...
Posted by ferroboy on :
He's also the Atom's kin or somesuch. But it was some kind of genetic engineering deal, IIRC. I'm actually surprised he wasn't brought into the JSA since he's a "legacy hero".
[ October 16, 2005, 04:16 PM: Message edited by: ferroboy ]
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
GA Atom was his genetic father, wasn't he? With other JSA members' DNA sequenced in, or something?
Grant Emerson-- Dr. Polaris is/was Neil(?) Emerson, I think. So, I believe he was Damage's nonbiological father's brother.
Was it his nonbio father who abused Grant- or was it Dr. Polaris?
Posted by Caliente on :
Damage's parents were Al Pratt aka Atom I and his wife Mary Pratt.
Damage's foster parents (John and Katherine Emerson) were the brother and sister-in-law of Dr. Neal Emerson aka Doctor Polaris. So, they're not related on the genetic level, only by circumstance.
Damage was experimented on by Vandal Savage. He took genetic material from of a number of people. The list I found is: Jay Garrick, Alan Scott, Ted Grant, Carter Hall, Shiera Hall, Rex Tyler, Dinah Lance, Charles McNider, Ted Knight, Johnny Chambers, Libby Lawrence, Barry Allen, Arthur Curry, Dinah Laurel Lance, Hal Jordan, Ray Palmer and J'onn J'onzz. So he's kind of related to all of them in a way.
Oh, and, yes, Grant's adoptive father did abuse him.
[ October 16, 2005, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: Caliente ]
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
Well, I can see that delving into Damage's back story *might* have been a bit of an albatross-- but Grant facing Dr. Polaris instead of the Human Bomb taking out the villain would've been a nice nod.
Then again, maybe it shows Damage's switching of 'family' from his abusive 'parents' (who were corporate shills anyway, weren't they?) to the FREEDOM FIGHTERS.
And though I hate to lose the Human Bomb, better him than Grant.
Posted by ferroboy on :
I agree, Mystery Lad. Besides, Human Bomb's been around for 60 years. He had a good run but it's not quite so bad as youngsters like the Black Condor and the Phantom Lady getting killed.
Posted by Invisible Brainiac on :
Phantom Lady in particular never really got a chance. Her debut was pretty recent, wasn't it? Glad that Ray and Damage at least will live to fight another day - those two have lots of untapped potential.
Posted by Rockhopper Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Invisible Brainiac: Phantom Lady in particular never really got a chance. Her debut was pretty recent, wasn't it?
This Phantom Lady has been around at least since the early 1990s. I remember her appearing in the Will Payton Starman series. Of course the original goes back to 1941 or so.
Posted by Owl Lad on :
Come on, her name is Phantom Lady. She'll be back in some sort of ethereal form, I'm sure.
Posted by Stratum on :
So is does Grant become the new human bomb now?
Jamie
Posted by Stealth on :
I've re-read IC #1 over and over and I'm still not sure what I think of it.
Jimenez and Lanning's art is faultless -- the double-page spread of the villains attacking is particularly impressive.
Johns does everything right on a technical level, keeping the story moving and the action exploding, without neglecting the characters themselves.
But just where is this story headed? If it wipes out the post-COIE versions of the big three, then that's fine with me. If it goes too far and turns back the clock to the pre-COIE universe, then I'll be annoyed. And if, in the end, it's just an excuse to kill off a lot of characters and shock readers, then I'll be angry and probably won't be reading a lot of DC six months from now.
Posted by Stealth on :
One last thing I almost forgot: when I saw the Bat-Signal being projected onto the Spectre's chest, I thought they might be foreshadowing that Bruce Wayne is going to become the Spectre's next host. I might be completely wrong, I have no idea what's happened to the Spectre since GL: Rebirth, but I just thought I'd share that anyway.
[ October 17, 2005, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: Stealth ]
Posted by ferroboy on :
quote:Originally posted by Stratum: So is does Grant become the new human bomb now?
I hope not. I don't really see the need for a change of name. It's not like we've ever seen anything to suggest they were particularly close.
Posted by Stratum on :
Just (kinda) similar explosive powers is all. Plus the way he was talking to Grant kinda foreshadowed it a bit.
I'm not saying I like it but I wouldn't be surprised.
Jamie
Posted by Spellbinder on :
I kinda wish the first issue had been a little less... graphic. I mean, did we really need 3 different pictures showing Phantom Lady being impaled on Deathstroke's sword? I think the single silouhette image was horrific enough. And, call me crazy, but I would think that Bizarro hitting Human Bomb once or twice would have killed him. Did we really need like 6 panels to do this?
I guess I'm just a little old fashioned. I mean, the deaths in COIF were moving, without being overly explicit. I hate this new trend in comics where the violence has to compete with mainstream video games and movies in terms of graphic violence. I understand the need, I guess, but I still feel a little sad about it. I miss the old days when I would have let my niece and nephew read any of my comics. Now, I have to really pick and choose carefully.
Plus, I feel a little... let down, I guess, that the new Freedom Fighters never really got the chance to shine anywhere before most of them were killed off. Heck, they never really got much chance to shine in their final battle. I would have liked to see at least a mini-series with them at some point. Instead, you just get the feeling of "well, we need to show how horrible this crisis is going to be, so let's roll out the cannon fodder that we never really used anywhere." Heroes should die heroic deaths. This just felt like quick murders.
Such a waste of potential... Posted by Pov on :
quote:Originally posted by Spellbinder: I kinda wish the first issue had been a little less... graphic. I mean, did we really need 3 different pictures showing Phantom Lady being impaled on Deathstroke's sword? I think the single silouhette image was horrific enough.
Maybe if she'd been stabbed in the head instead of just under her ample, exposed cleavage... Posted by Frio on :
quote:Originally posted by rjbrande: My overwhelming reaction to IC #1 is: eh.
I second that. Which is too bad because I really do love Geoff Johns as a writer. I just felt like too much was happening and I was really, really confused by a lot of it. I'm hoping it'll get better.
Posted by armsfalloffboy on :
Can't say I'm too impressed. Also have to agree that there's a shortage of perfect breasts in the world...why Phantom Lady?
And wasn't Deathstroke a borderline hero in the Nineties?
Posted by Pov on :
Newsarama's got a preview up for Perez's cover to IC#2. Posted by Spellbinder on :
My god but that man can put alot into a cover... Posted by Stratum on :
Wow...Jim who?
Jamie
Posted by RTVU2 on :
quote:Originally posted by Stratum: Wow...Jim who?
Jamie
Ditto man....
Posted by Stratum on :
That one cover lists so many important moments...he is the master.
Jamie
Posted by Pov on :
Including three different versions of one in particular. Arguably THE most important moment in DC history.
Wondering about the sliver over PG's left shoulder... of her and Wildfire...?! Unless that's a reference to JLA v.1#147...
Posted by Stratum on :
quote:Originally posted by Pov: Including three different versions of one in particular. Arguably THE most important moment in DC history.
Wondering about the sliver over PG's left shoulder... of her and Wildfire...?! Unless that's a reference to JLA v.1#147...
Yeah, I picked up on those moments fairly quickly.
Isn't that scene of her and Wildfire from the Original Crisis? Both of them were in the group that went back to the beginning of time to fight they Aunti-Monitor.
Jamie
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
WILDFIRE!?!?! I can't believe I didn't spot that the first time I saw the cover! Now I can't wait to see if these scenes are incorporated into the issue itself!
Posted by Stratum on :
I'm betting if they are, it's only in flashback.
Oh and BTW (from the Marv Wolfman chat on CBR):
Azrael52: Didn't I read that you're doing a story in the "IC Secret Files and Origins?" Excited? marvw: Yeah, it's a 44 page story that actually explains every DC continuity alteration for the past 20+ years. It's a crucial linchpin story for the "Infinite Crisis."
Jamie
Posted by Invisible Brainiac on :
Man, that glimpse of the old Legion HQ sooo made me love that cover.
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
I
quote:Originally posted by Stratum: I'm betting if they are, it's only in flashback.
Oh and BTW (from the Marv Wolfman chat on CBR):
Azrael52: Didn't I read that you're doing a story in the "IC Secret Files and Origins?" Excited? marvw: Yeah, it's a 44 page story that actually explains every DC continuity alteration for the past 20+ years. It's a crucial linchpin story for the "Infinite Crisis."
Jamie
Didn't DC announce that Perez was actually doing some interior pages for IC itself. I think issue 2 is supposed to contain the first of these.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
At some point, Perez does a few pages that "shows the entire history of the DCU itself" (Dan Didio). I'm curious to see these!
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
What? No spoilers for #2 yet? Come on! I can't pick up my issue until tomorrow, maybe.
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
quote:Originally posted by Lightning Lad: What? No spoilers for #2 yet? Come on! I can't pick up my issue until tomorrow, maybe.
Click Here For A SpoilerWe get to see Animal Man say goodbye to his family in the first few pages. Unfortunately, we all know that means that TPTB are setting my favorite character up to die. *sigh*
We see New Cronus's group which is a homage to the group on the Monitor's satelitte in Crisis. The Society is stopped from capturing Power Girl by Superman of Earth-2.
The Daily Planet confirms the deaths of Doctor Polaris, Black Condor II, Phantom Lady II, and the Human Bomb. Damage is in critical condition. And Uncle Sam and the Ray II are missing.
After the Society fails to capture a Marvel Family member, Lex decides to use Black Adam for his evil scheme. The other Lex is in the arctic in the battle armor confused. Also in the arctic, Power Girl meets the rest of the Crisis crew who recap the parallel Earths, Crisis, and subsequent merged Earth storyline before PG touches the apparently dying Lois Lane of Earth-2 and regains her memories of Earth-2.
A different Booster Gold & Skeets from the future arrive on the Moon in search of "his" League apparently too late. He settles for looking for the Blue Beetle's scarab.
Joker murders all of the Royal Flush gang trying to figure out why he was left out of the Society.
Batman talks to Brother Eye and learns that the OMACs are amassing to kill Wonder Woman and the amazons for killing Max Lord.
And lastly, Superman of Earth-2 reveals that because this reality has grown too dark because its mostly based on Earth-1, he intends to remake reality so that Earth-2 is the primary world.]Here's a spoiler-filled synopsis of the issue! Read only if you can handle the truth!
[ November 09, 2005, 03:48 PM: Message edited by: Nightcrawler ]
Posted by Hunt Drouin on :
Quick question...have you ever seen such a HUGE endowment on Power Girl? She's gotta have some strong back muscles.
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
quote:Originally posted by Hunt Drouin: Quick question...have you ever seen such a HUGE endowment on Power Girl? She's gotta have some strong back muscles.
They did seem to get bigger as the story progressed. And I didn't think that was possible.
Posted by googoomuck on :
quote:Originally posted by Nightcrawler:
quote:Originally posted by Hunt Drouin: Quick question...have you ever seen such a HUGE endowment on Power Girl? She's gotta have some strong back muscles.
They did seem to get bigger as the story progressed. And I didn't think that was possible.
Wally Wood would be proud.
Posted by STU on :
Also, more Amazons get killed.
How is it that there are still any left? It seems as though every single crossover or DCU-wide event ends up wiping out dozens of Amazons...
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Glad I decided to stop on the way home after leaving work tonight. Only two copies left at the shop (both of them the Perez cover). Love the Legion AR scene. Especially since they picked one with Garth. Posted by Tamper Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by STU: Also, more Amazons get killed.
How is it that there are still any left? It seems as though every single crossover or DCU-wide event ends up wiping out dozens of Amazons...
Perhaps they have learned to reproduce without.... er males.
Not while the gods still have access to their life-giving Play-Doh...
Posted by Rockhopper Lad on :
"Spoiler" is in the title of this thread, but I'll give some space just to be on the safe side:
S P O I L E R
S P A C E
Okay, Kal-L somehow wants to replace the world we have known since Crisis with one which is tilted more towards Earth-2. I, for one would love that, but that I can't imagine DC would do it. They essentially would have to remove the Big Three from their line altogether.
On the other hand, they do have that All-Star line now...
Hey I can dream can't I?
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
INFINITE CRISIS 2
spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space
ANIMAL MAN: I hope this doesn't mean bad tidings ahead for Buddy Baker and family-- funny, how I didn't know how much I'd missed this family till I see them again. NEW CHRONUS: What a setting- I hope it survives the Crisis. Though I'm not sure I want to see Donna as primarily a space-bound hero. POWER GIRL: an issue against the Psycho Pirate, Giganta, Mr. Atom grouping would've been more worthwhile than the last issue of JSA CLASSIFIED. Wow, was the scene between her, GA Superman, and later Lois, effective. With a Perez-drawn history lesson. Good stuff. Though I'm not sold on the latest version of Power Girl's origin, her reawakening was certainly presented with emotion (hers) and passion (the creators). Don't know what to think yet about the LUTHOR(s) and BOOSTER GOLD developments. I *do* know that seeing the Amazons and Themyscira getting blasted once agin is tiresome. Couldn't the latest crisis-causing baddie pick on some other group?
Beautiful art... I'm surprised there wasn't an image of Phantom Lady, Black Condor and the Human Bomb impaled on the Washington Monument. Sad, sad-- but at least there's hope for the Ray, Uncle Sam and Damage.
Posted by Bicycle Repair Man on :
Re: Nightcrawler's synopsis:
I remember the narrative switching from the Batman/Brother Eye scene to the OMACs, but I didn't interpret that as meaning Brother Eye was telling Batman what the OMACs would be doing ...
Posted by superboymddjr on :
Color me surprised when Amethyst and Metal Men made a brief appearance in IC #2....that was totally unexpected. I dropped my jaw when I saw Amethyst defending her Gemworld from Spectre on the page next to the last page on the top right column. *gasp* I hope Amethyst will be alive after IC is over. *finger crossing*
Posted by superboymddjr on :
Soliticiations from Silver Bullet Comics on IC #5: "Supermen clash in IC 5:
"The DCU shakes apart as Superman of Earth 2 finally confronts our Superman. Meanwhile, heroes are disappearing throughout the DC Universe, a transformed villain returns, and the mystics of every world and dimension seek help from the very Spirit that is destroying them. Retailers please note: This issue will ship with covers by Lee & Hope (approximately 50%) and Pérez (approximately 50%)."
The Rann-Thanagar Special also looks interesting:
"Infinite Crisis is here — and the Cosmic Storm rages out of control, threatening the fate of the entire universe! While the Rannian and Thanagarian flagships each suspect that the other is responsible for the disturbances, Donna Troy must lead her team of space champions into the cosmos in an attempt to prevent total destruction. But as the war rages on, a startling discovery will be uncovered, one hero will be forever changed, and another will make the ultimate sacrifice."
Posted by superboymddjr on :
Also, Wonder Woman #226 will be the final issue. *sigh* not again, why must her book be cancelled every time when there is a Crisis? Posted by superboymddjr on :
Gotham Knights and Gotham Central will be axed as well....Perez's cover #5 looks so GREEATTT!! two supermen and two earths...wow....Superman (Kal-L) looks so pissed off so he knocks Superman (Kal-El) so hard so the wall displaying two Earths shattered. whoa! Lee needs to do better on the IC covers. ( I think his #3 is the best of them all I believe.)
Posted by Caliente on :
Man. Rucka's books are getting it left and right... Uncool -- I like him!!
Posted by superboymddjr on :
not sure if I am right, I think, that Nightwing is also facing the axe, #117 will be his last issue.???
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
And click hereINFINITE CRISIS #5 Written by Geoff Johns Art by Phil Jimenez & Andy Lanning Covers by Jim Lee & Sandra Hope and George Pérez The DCU shakes apart as Superman of Earth 2 finally confronts our Superman. Meanwhile, heroes are disappearing throughout the DC Universe, a transformed villain returns, and the mystics of every world and dimension seek help from the very Spirit that is destroying them. Retailers please note: This issue will ship with covers by Lee & Hope (approximately 50%) and Pérez (approximately 50%). for the solicitation spoilers.
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
quote:Originally posted by Caliente: Man. Rucka's books are getting it left and right... Uncool -- I like him!!
Rucka's been such a big part of IC that he has to have something lined up. Like the inevitable WW relaunch.
I'll miss Gotham Central, though.
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
quote:Originally posted by superboymddjr: not sure if I am right, I think, that Nightwing is also facing the axe, #117 will be his last issue.???
Devin Grayson is off the book with that issue. The current artist, Phil Hester, leaves two issues before. Haven't heard about a cancellation, but I wouldn't object to a relaunch there either.
Posted by superboymddjr on :
just from Newsarama....another title bits the dust...like Wonder Woman....it's the Flash....his last issue will be in January. Same before as COiE....Wonder Woman and Flash titles were cancelled after COiE.....now this... Posted by Pov on :
quote:Originally posted by Outdoor Miner: Rucka's been such a big part of IC that he has to have something lined up. Like the inevitable WW relaunch.
I'll miss Gotham Central, though.
Aaargh!
I just reeeeally got into this title with the Titans arc. I've been buying up back issues like a maniac, and I added it to my preorders last month.
Hopefully it'll be back after whatever happens in the Batbooks settles down after 1YL...
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
It is a great book.
Current rumor is that it'll be relaunched post-IC. Probably hoping that a new #1 will boost interest.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
I thought GC was the sacrifice for the upcoming Batman Confidential. Either that or Streets of Gotham.
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
I'm thinking the latter.
Gotham Knights might be the one making way for Confidential.
Posted by Caliente on :
My brain hurts. Ow.
Someone let me know when it's all over... ><
Posted by legionadventureman on :
quote:Originally posted by superboymddjr: just from Newsarama....another title bits the dust...like Wonder Woman....it's the Flash....his last issue will be in January. Same before as COiE....Wonder Woman and Flash titles were cancelled after COiE.....now this...
Somebody at DC has no sense of originality...the only repercussion concerning Wally is that all his back-history, including his ties to Iris and the Teen Titans and indeed to the Barry Allen-Flash may be retconned in the wake of the IC... Posted by mon-el73 on :
Read that the Hawkman book is making way for Hawkgrrrl... Hawkmen, Flashes, Wonder Women... I think my entire fanboy life is being retconned... It's 1986 again! Posted by superboymddjr on :
you know what? after looking at DC future comics cover for this month to January....I noticed that Batman and Superman are getting beat up by villains and heroes....Superman getting clocked by Supergirl and Superman Kal-L and Batman being pinned down by Green Lantern and Green Arrow....poor Superman and Batman. At least Wonder Woman and Flash do not get beaten up.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Solications for #6 now available (courtesy of Newsarama). You can see the cover here and here is the solicitation text:
quote:INFINITE CRISIS #6 Written by Geoff Johns Art by Phil Jimenez & Andy Lanning Covers by Jim Lee & Sandra Hope and George Pérez Which events in this continuing epic will lead us to One Year Later? What worlds live? Which hero dies? Retailers please note: This issue will ship with covers by Lee & Hope (approximately 50%) and Pérez (approximately 50%). On sale March 8 • 6 of 7 • 40 pg, FC, $3.99 US
If you want to see a sneak preview of the covers to Robin, Supergirl and Hawkgirl for March, just check out Newsarama.
[ December 10, 2005, 04:32 PM: Message edited by: Lightning Lad ]
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
The Supergirl cover looks to be a female version of Nightwing and Flamebird (the original Kandorian versions).
Posted by superboymddjr on :
hmmm i admit that when I saw those covers....I was not that impressed....I feel that those covers are boring or looks so bland.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
I wonder what kind of spoilerish images are meant to be in those splintered shards on the cover of Infinite Crisis #6!! Does anyone really think continuity will be simplified after all this?
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
I think they'll try. Some fans may not be happy about it, though, if they saw the reappearance of the multiverse as the new status quo and it turns out to be a sendoff.
Posted by Cobalt Rhino on :
quote:Originally posted by Nightcrawler: The Supergirl cover looks to be a female version of Nightwing and Flamebird (the original Kandorian versions).
Not sure if this was mentioned in another thread, but that's Power Girl and Supergirl as Nightwing and Flamebird (per Dan Didio or some other DCU higher-up).
Posted by Stratum on :
Picked up #3 a few minutes ago....not sure that I like where this is going with Kal-L and Co...but the last few pages has me floored.
Jamie
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
One word for #3 - YUCK!
I'm not liking this series at all.
Posted by STU on :
WOW.
Click Here For A SpoilerRe: Superboy -- I always knew that goody-goody act was too good to be true! Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Didn't like this issue. Felt like I was being told to pick up other books to get the full story. Too fragmented. And I'm supposed to believe that you-know-who and you-know-who have been behind this all along? And does that make you-know-who the Anti-Monitor? Not the good read I was expecting after a long day at work. I would have been better off with a good zombie book.
Posted by Stratum on :
Turns out I was right about Luthor's identity in Villains United with my first guess. There was no other way for him to know about Pariah and Quark.
Things I don't like (so far):
Alexander's and Superboy's turn to the dark side....if all is as it seems.
Their manipulations of Kal-L.
No Ted Kord (but maybe this Jaime has promise?)
Things I like:
The Anti-Monitor!
An Anti-Matter Bomb!
Kal-L's revelation that he could have a better life with Selina.
I'm thinking that the 'bad guys' here are being manipulated in turn. Is it possible that the AM is still alive somehow and controlling Alexander through the Anti-Matter?
And the big white space we saw in Rann-Thanagar HAS to be the AM bomb exploding....
Jamie
Posted by Abin Quank on :
Darn it! I won't get this issue until next month's shipment...
Now I have to stop reading this thread, AGAIN! Posted by rtvu2 on :
I liked the issue. I didn't see anything wrong wiht what is happening. It makes sense to me.
Click Here For A SpoilerEP SB is bound to go crazy/jealous seeing Conner and his life -the life EP SB belives he should had have. That could easily be manulipated by Alexander Luthor-who is still a Luthor and can nver be trusted no matter from what universe. But then again, I think this may be just a big red herring to what is really going on and who is really in charge. Maybe the Anti Monitor is still alive. Dido did say something that the COIE never really did end.
So who is on the Tower? We have J'onn, Breach, Lady Quark, Black Adam and The Ray. Apparently they need Kara and Nightshade too. What do all these characters have in common? Anyone?
[ December 22, 2005, 09:32 AM: Message edited by: rtvu2 ]
Posted by Stratum on :
My guess? Click Here For A SpoilerEach one is a representative of the different earths...the only one I can't figure out is Breach.
Jamie
Posted by rtvu2 on :
ohhhhhh. I like that.
Click Here For A Spoiler J'onn is from the "current" earth. Black Adam from "Earth-S", the Ray from "Earth-X", Lady Quark from whatever Earth she is from, Kara from "Earth-2" and Nightshade from "Earth-C." We can maybe assume that Breach may be from the Wildstorm Earth.
Going from there Alexander's machine is not meant to mindwipe the heroes at all. That's just the pretense he is using for the Society. He is setting it up to bring back the multiverse.
I like. Posted by Stratum on :
Egg-zactly!
Jamie
Posted by Insouciant Lad on :
Click Here For A SpoilerMaybe we can assume that there are also places in the tower for EP SB and Alexandr Luthor too so that their earths (Earth-Prime and Earth-3 are included?
[ December 22, 2005, 09:44 AM: Message edited by: Insouciant Lad ]
Posted by Star Boy on :
AAARGH!!! A crashed plane means comics shipments to Melbourne are delayed indefinitely? I hope no-one was hurt...
But... Does any naughty individual know where I can download a copy before I buy mine whenever they arrive? I have both covers on my order but no way to buy the bloody things... Posted by Rockhopper Lad on :
A minor point, but this issue answered a question I've had, Andrew Vinson, Power Girl's pre-Crisis love interest, does not exist post-Crisis.
Posted by Rockhopper Lad on :
This is purely speculation on my part, but I thought I'd throw it out there:
Click Here For A SpoilerIC#3 cuts from Animal Man borrowing the powers of an animal that "shoots lightning from its face" to a shot of Wally West's baby twins. Could his children possibly be Garth and Ayla? I kinda doubt it, but still... Posted by rtvu2 on :
I don't think so RL. maybe more of a homage to the lighting beasts that give them there powers...
Posted by Star Boy on :
Okay, I'm not saying I condone rampant filesharing of whatever comes into your head... but I will say a huge thankyou to a super-special Legion Worlder for arranging... something. (Look away, DC Execs! Or at least believe me when I say I'll still be picking up the issue when it finally arrives in non-digital format... ) Comments to follow once I investigate that spiffy Click Here For A Spoiler tag... Thanks so much to They-Know-Who!
PS I agree with Scott when he says that the story seemed to suffer a lack of self-containment. (They obviously need to put Geoff Johns in a Wildfire suit. He can still wear a beret if he wants.)
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
I hope there's some sort of reset or something ahead. A DCU without Atlantis or Themyscira is much more boring than with them. Though their destruction/migration would explain the lack of those city-states in the 30th/31st century...
I'd prefer their fate remain a mystery to us Legion readers, since I want to read stories using those two fictional settings in 'current' DCU titles.
Posted by Blacula on :
quote:Originally posted by Nightcrawler: One word for #3 - YUCK!
I'm not liking this series at all.
Ditto x 1000.
Posted by Star Boy on :
Well, after all my thoughts about how this was a series pandering to Pre-Crisis fans and that I really didn't care for a lot of what was going on, then I got to the end.
Click Here For A SpoilerI love Superboy-Prime as a vicious little SOB. I love the way that the Earth-2 SuperGrampa is being manipulated somehow. I love the way that it seems that 'our' Earth will be redeemed as being not so bad as at least we think a bit. After all, "Evil will always triumph over Good, because Good is Dumb." Or they'll just bring the bloody Multiverse back. Whatever. I barely read core DCU titles these days anyway...
Edited to change SuperDoofus to SuperGrampa, which I think far more apt... Posted by MLLASH on :
Well, things are interesting enough but there is one thing I just cannot suspend disbelief enough to accept:
WHY are Mal and Karen (Herald & Bumblebee) with Donna Troy's crew in space? I *love* these guys, but come ON-- it's ludicrous they would be picked for this mission, whatever it is. Their only action in the past 5-plus YEARS has been in the recent Dr. Light battle in TT and the JLA/Titans mini.
This had BETTER be a springboard to bigger and better things for them, and NOT (as I fear) a lame-ass way to off them.
Posted by Vee on :
I fear you are correct Lasher. I think this will be the end of those two.
Posted by legionadventureman on :
On the subject of forgotten heroes: Have Flamebird and Golden Eagle been nominated to "kick the bucket", also? Posted by Spellbinder on :
There had better be light at the end of the tunnel with this series.
Click Here For A SpoilerI will be more than a little annoyed if Alexander Luthor and Superboy end up as whackos. Alex was my favorite new character in the original Crisis, and I would hate to see him as this "evil" mastermind. Posted by Faraway Lad on :
I agree. One of the things I liked about the original Crisis was
Click Here For A Spoilerthe simple way they used the fact that a good Luthor existed out there to show how different, strange and wonderful the multiverse could be. I liked the fact that, on one world, in one set of circumstances, a Luthor did not have to be evil. Now apparently using the one good Luthor (that we know about) as the evil mastermind I hope this is just a red herring
[ January 04, 2006, 11:01 AM: Message edited by: Povolero ]
Posted by Star Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by Faraway Lad: I agree. One of the things I liked about the original Crisis was
Click Here For A Spoilerthe simple way they used the fact that a good Luthor existed out there to show how different, strange and wonderful the multiverse could be. I liked the fact that, on one world, in one set of circumstances, a Luthor did not have to be evil.
Ah but isn't Click Here For A Spoilergolden evil Luthor Boy the son of the 'good' Luthor? I don't think the "At least one good Luthor somewhere" hypothesis is broken by the actions of that naughty little boy in Infinite Crisis... but please someone correct me if I'm wrong...
Posted by Spellbinder on :
You are correct, Wayne. However, DC has overdone the "good guys gone bad" thing in the last few years. Sure, it was a surprise (to me at least), but I'm sure that they could have found another angle to use.
Posted by Povolero on :
I know others aren't feeling the same, but I'm enthralled by this series.
I do think, however, that there is much more going on than it seems. I think the Anti-Monitor somehow (through anti-matter energy and the way the first Crisis ended with him passing through Alex as Alex transported them out)has taken control of Alexander Luthor.
Also, I'm pretty sure the others are correct in that each of the captured heroes is from another Earth. What the anti-matter bomb is going to do is 're-create' the multiple earths. The reasoning: it was because the multiple earths existed in the first place that the anti-matter was able to destroy the positive matter--each earth was weaker than it should have been and thus more susceptible to the anti-matter entropy. Thus, by recreating the multiple earths, the Anti-Monitor could re-weaken the earths and make them easy to destroy again. As you can see, I'm just not convinced its Alex and Superboy behind this.
Of course, this makes me glad that E2 Superman is not the villain here, but is secretly being betrayed by Alex and Superboy (not from Earth-2) or the Anti-Monitor. I feel he'll have a shining moment before this is through and not be shown as some sap.
I wish more heroes were featured though!
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
I'm enjoying too. I'm concerned how easily Ka-L was duped though. Remember the Anti-Monitor was able to possess Harbinger in the original Crisis, I'm thinking that's the case again here.
I'm interested to see what the Crisis Secret Files is going to show. I'm hoping it will reveal that all the bad plot ideas of the last 20 years were caused by the manipulations of Alex not some hack writer working for DC Comics on Earth Prime.
Remember that Parallax wanted to create a Multiverse during Zero Hour? Who gave him that bright idea.
That's right all the sins writers have committed against your childhood heroes in the grim and gritty post-crisis era will probably be packed on the Anti-Monitor's back.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Thus following Alan Moore and Legion World's own LMB and creating the most dastardly of all villains: the ones responsible for the grim and gritty 90's
Also, Dan Didio said there are probably more "Holy SHIT!" moments in this series than any other he can say off-hand, so I'm expecting at least one or two more in #4, and the same for #5-7. I'm not ready to believe there isn't some outside influence on Alex and Superboy yet.
Also, its interesting to remember that technically Superboy of Earth Prime is much, much, stronger than Superman of Earth-2 or post Crisis Superman.
Posted by Stratum on :
Cobie,
I'm with you on the whole more going on thing....as a matter of fact my thoughts are very similiar to yours on the matter.
And remember, with each world destroyed the AM grew stronger....
Jamie
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
I'm curious how the existence of the Anti-Matter Earth fits into all of this. It didn't exist pre-Crisis, and seems to be roughly modelled on the postive matter "Earth-3".
Posted by Bevis on :
And Hypertime of course. It might not relate at all, but it could have some kind of bearing. It'd be the obvious link to getting the Multiverse back after all.
Posted by Omni Craig on :
So based on his efforts to bring back the multiverse, doesn't that make Alexander Luthor the Anti-Crisist?
"Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week. Try the veal!"
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Posted by Stratum on :
Barry Allen....
Jamie
Posted by Matthew E on :
I just had an idea for what DC should do / might be doing with IC.
The problem with COIE was that it got rid of a lot of continuity and history that people loved. But bringing all that stuff back won't solve the problems that COIE was meant to solve - i.e., the multiverse was filling up and getting too complicated.
So here's what they could do. Bring back the multiverse, but make it impossible to travel from one Earth to another. That way, if you want to tell an All-Star Squadron story, or a Superboy-and-the-Legion story, you do so, and it exists in its proper world, and doesn't affect whatever DC's current continuity Earth at all, in which Superman arrived on Earth in 1982 or whatever it is.
Posted by Stratum on :
Bump for Issue 4 (and this weeks tie ins)....not a good time for a vacation in Bludhaven, nor is it a good day to be a Titan or a teen hero in general.
There are major spoilers within....you are warned.
Click Here For A SpoilerThe SSSV airdrops Chemo right into the heart of Bludhaven
MANY Titans die....horribly
Barry Allen
The Spectre finds a new host in Gotham...
Booster finds Beetle
Cassandra Cain finds Stephanie...
Firestorm gains a new partner.
NO MORE SPEED FORCE!
I will say that between IC and the current Nightwing book, I fear for Dick's future.
I am really starting to abhor the gratuitous violence in this series but there are definitely some Oh @!#$% moments in this issue. I can't wait to talk about this with you guys.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Thread avoidance in full effect until Sunday!
(Its tempting, but thanks for the Spoiler--that feature officially rocks)
Posted by Spellbinder on :
Not only gratuitous violence, but graphic violence, as well. I mean, several characters died in COIE, but none of the deaths (to me) were as graphic as, for instance, Click Here For A SpoilerNeptune Perkins, who is shown being bitten in half by one villain and his arm bitten off by another villain, or Phantom Lady being impaled by a sword in three different images. I mean, that's a little much. I mean, it's nice that they're dying heroicly, I guess, but does it need to be visually gruesome as well?
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
Probably yes, In the minds of consumers of media and the folks that bring it to them these days. There's no romance without a graphic sex scene and no heroic sacrifice without a bloody pulp.
Posted by Stratum on :
Yup. I'm sure that there are plenty of folks who enjoy this level of violence but you don't actually have to SHOW the actual act of death.
I realize that it's me just getting older but I remember the orignal Crisis and while there was a number of deaths, it was nothing like what is in issue 4.
The example that Spellbinder uses earlier pales in comparison to what is in this issue.
And Cobie is right, the spoiler feature absolutely rocks!
Jamie
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
I do have something to ask regarding a panel of the issue.
Click Here For A SpoilerOn the second to last page Flamebird is transported to Earth-2 with the original members of the JSA. Does this mean that the modern DCU Bette is not Bat-Girl from pre-crisis but rather her Earth-2 duplicate?
Note that the modern DCU smallville vanished too. Figures eh? Byrne Superman's youth is closer to the Golden Age version than the Silver Age one.
My head hurts.
Posted by Stratum on :
I'm gonna have to look at that again tonight, Tamper.
Jamie
Posted by superboymddjr on :
quote:Originally posted by Tamper Lad:
Click Here For A Spoiler
Note that the modern DCU smallville vanished too. Figures eh? Byrne Superman's youth is closer to the Golden Age version than the Silver Age one.
actually it was another city vinashed, not that smallville.
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
Well for my two cents -
I didn't think this series could sink any lower or be much worse.
- I was wrong. Posted by Vee on :
quote:Originally posted by Nightcrawler: Well for my two cents -
I didn't think this series could sink any lower or be much worse.
- I was wrong.
I have to agree. All the deaths seemed unecessary to me. And very gory! Did we really need to see someone's head blown apart?
Posted by Vee on :
With everything going on with Superboy Prime right now both in IC and over in the Titans, I can now understand why everyone at the panel we attended at Wizard World Boston in Ocotber got so uncomfortable with the question I raised about the rumors that there would be a new Superboy in the DCU.
Guess I hit a bit close to home with that one. Posted by rtvu2 on :
I hate to disagree, but I have to say wow. Maybe I have been desenseitzed to all the violence but this last issue rocked! You get what SB Prime and Alexander have been doing. You get some great cliffhangers and you get a great shock ending. Homecoming indeed. Issue #4 rocked!
Posted by the boy with UltraPowers on :
quote:Originally posted by rtvu2: I hate to disagree, but I have to say wow. Maybe I have been desenseitzed to all the violence but this last issue rocked! You get what SB Prime and Alexander have been doing. You get some great cliffhangers and you get a great shock ending. Homecoming indeed. Issue #4 rocked!
i agree with you too !!
i thought this was a great and exciting issue !! and yeah the deaths were maybe a little too graphic !! but this story is called 'Infinite Crisis' afterall !!
i'm not a lover of violence, but the book is dealing with major villians [ not unlike 'real life' terrorists ] trying to take over the planet and wipe out the heroes ........ were gonna see some carnage and bloodshed !!
but i suppose some of that could have been more 'off camera' ??
Matthew.
Posted by Owl Lad on :
That Spoiler feature isn't working for me
I feel like I'm at a party where everybody's talking, but I can't hear anything.
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
quote:Originally posted by Owl Lad: That Spoiler feature isn't working for me
I feel like I'm at a party where everybody's talking, but I can't hear anything.
Which browser and/or operating system do you use? That may play a role in why it doesn't work. If it's a browser, I can download it and figure out how to make it work.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
What I'm finding the most annoying part of this series is the weird retconning of what Earth-1 and Earth-2, etc., were to begin with. The Flamebird thing is one thing, but the whole notion that the modern Superman is the Earth-1 Superman just strikes me as ludicrous. And while I can kind of accept Alex Luthor as a villain, Earth-Prime Superboy just`strikes me as completely out of character based on everything we knew about him, and I'm pretty annoyed at Kal-L being duped so easily. And how exactly does the Ray's genetic code contain the vibrational frequency of Earth-X (whatever that means to begin with), when the Ray was originally from Earth-2?
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
Yeah i thought the book was good despite over the top violence.
quote:Originally posted by superboymddjr:
quote:Originally posted by Tamper Lad:
Click Here For A Spoiler
Note that the modern DCU smallville vanished too. Figures eh? Byrne Superman's youth is closer to the Golden Age version than the Silver Age one.
actually it was another city vinashed, not that smallville.
You're right after looking at it again. I see the fight left Smallville, spanned the entire state of Kansas and reached the Missouri river. Still the city that vanished makes it clear where the missing heroes are.
I still don't understand Bette disappearing with them. I know all pre "New Look" Batman apearances were retconned to Earth 2 but still Bette was associated with the Titans for the longest time.
My speculation is that young Alex intends to use Superman-2 to try to convince the heroes JSA and other heroes that are back in the land of the Daily Star to go along with his plan carte blanche.
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: What I'm finding the most annoying part of this series is the weird retconning of what Earth-1 and Earth-2, etc., were to begin with. The Flamebird thing is one thing, but the whole notion that the modern Superman is the Earth-1 Superman just strikes me as ludicrous. And while I can kind of accept Alex Luthor as a villain, Earth-Prime Superboy just`strikes me as completely out of character based on everything we knew about him, and I'm pretty annoyed at Kal-L being duped so easily. And how exactly does the Ray's genetic code contain the vibrational frequency of Earth-X (whatever that means to begin with), when the Ray was originally from Earth-2?
Yes the duping of Ka-L is my big complaint about the plot. It's not believable at all. Sure we make poor choices under emotional duress but this is the original Superman with a lifetime of heroing under his belt.
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
Click Here For A SpoilerNot that Pantha and Wiley were fave but I did like them believe it or not. Especially Pantha. As for Wildey? Isn't he a young kid? I know Danny Chase or Wildey aren't iconic but it really irks me when Green old Fart with a ring and Green old Fart with arrows get ressurected. And more importantly I did like Red Star ALOT. I've always liked the Russian heroes for some reason. And does anyone else have a problem with the LEGION's super nice guy (Super Boy Prime) being so evil?
And actually after everything I've heard I will probably like the issue but I certainly have a prob with the stuff above.
Writers who kill the "small" characters and then create their own "small" characters I don't get. They say the small characters don't have a place and over populate the comic universe...then go create a slew of no-names???
Posted by Vee on :
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: And how exactly does the Ray's genetic code contain the vibrational frequency of Earth-X (whatever that means to begin with), when the Ray was originally from Earth-2?
I don't think the Ray was considered to be from Earth 2. Wasn't he introduced into the DCU along with the other Freedom Fighters in one of the classic JLA-JSA team ups? Earth X was the planet they inhabited in which the Nazis won WW 2.
Posted by MLLASH on :
The Ray is definitely from Earth X-- the world where Nazi Germany won WW2-- along with Uncle Sam and the rest of the Freedom Fighters.
# 4 SPOILERS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
WOW. Bushido, Wildebeest, Pantha, Red Star, possibly Risk.... the ranks of the Titans took a heavy hit this issue. Maybe Cody will survive somehow, and Red Star as well. Those other 3 are Goners with a capital "G". What a bloodbath.
And Earth 2 *is* back-- but for how long? This series is making me way nervous.
Posted by Stratum on :
Okay, was out sick yesterday but I've been dying to address a few things here.
Click Here For A SpoilerTamper - I don't think that was Smallville that actually vanished but Keystone City. There was a small sign at the bottom of the panel where Wally and Bart hit Superboy. Keystone was the Earth-2 home of Jay Garrick....
Please note that the JSA is now seperated. Dr. Midnight and Mr. Terrific were Earth-1 denizens and did not move with the rest of the team.
As for Flamebird, Bette Kane was the pre-Crisis niece of the Earth-2 Kathy Kane, hence she really was an Earth-2 inhabitant and disappeared with the rest of the Earth-2 JSA. It's not a retcon but a realignment of sorts.
The Ray - The only thing I can think of is that he may have been conceived on Earth-X or his father was attuned to that 'genetic code' before the merge.
As for the violence, (and beyond the fact that many feel the death count is unnecessary), you don't actually have to SHOW the graphic violence in order to get your point across. That's pandering to the LCD, IMO.
I read CoIE when it came out. I was 12 going on 13 and that hooked me on comics for life. Now, I understand that I am STILL the main demographic for comics 20 years later but there's no way in Hell I would let my 10 year old read IC because of the graphic violence.
I think we have a solid story going on here but that the graphic nature of the deaths are drawing away from it.
My .002.
Jamie
Posted by Stratum on :
I thought that the FF were originally Earth-2 (or Earth-Quality, then retconned.) and moved over to Earth-X in All-Star Squadron?
And I think Star and Risk will make it. But the Titans were raped....hard.
Jamie
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Yeah, per All-Star Squadron, the Earth-X heroes all immigrated to Earth-X from Earth-2. Not Roy Thomas's best move, but it's there.
Posted by Stratum on :
Wow, my memory's not as bad as I thought.
Good lord, imagine if I actually used all the brain power for something helpful....
Jamie
Posted by MLLASH on :
If I'm not mistaken, the Earth 2 to Earth X business was a 1980s retcon.
The FF originally appeared (as DC-owned characters) in an early 1970s Justice League tale as residents of Earth X, and crossed over from Earth X to Earth 1 in their own mid-70s series.
Granted: I have not actually read that early 70s Justice League story myself, but I believe it to be the case. Someone please correct if it is stated in their original appearance they are from Earth 2.
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
That is correct, the Freedom Fighters are from Earth-X alone. The JSA do not know them in their appearance in 1973. (Just pulled out my Crisis on Multiple Earths Trade vol 3.)
Looks like they are going to ignore the Roy Thomas ret-con from All Star Squadron which isn't a bad thing.
Posted by MLLASH on :
Well, if that's settled, I'm still not down with the whole Bette Kane/Earth 2 thang.
In her 1970s TEEN TITANS appearances, she is very much an Earth-1 resident, and her aunt (AKA Batwoman) appears in a 70s issue of FREEDOM FIGHTERS as an Earth 1 resident.
I guess we'll have to assume that DC is going with the original, earliest takes on the characters and ignoring all that came after.
Fits in with the whole Freedom Fighters/Earth X-not-Earth 2 thing, I guess.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
The storyline behind the retcon is that Thomas originally introduced "Earth-2" versions of the Quality characters in order to account for their published post-World War II adventures. He later changed his mind and decided to make them the actual Earth-X heroes with the whole world-switch storyline.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
I can understand the use of graphic violence this issue -- it helped to convey Superboy's horror at what he was doing. I think that to imply it or have it off-panel would hide that. From a characterisation standpoint I'm not sure I buy how far he went over the edge (I feel like we're missing something about his time in exile), but his horror and desperation at the end when facing the Flashes was well done.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I still think there is more we don't know about Alex Luthor (still think he's the Anti-Monitor) and that Superman of Earth-2 will have a shining moment, so I'll hold back on any speculation there.
Thought this issue was great, but I agree the violence was over the top (very realistic, true) and wish the deaths were a little more 'heroic'. Still, since in a way the Crisis is trying to critique the violence of the 90's/post-crisis, so maybe its that gory and violent on purpose as a culmination point.
Can't wait to see what's going to happen with the Flashes.
Batman has been great in this issue and the last. I really want him and Dick to make it through alright and smile more with each other.
Superboy of Earth-Prime definately has been duped/manipulated by Alexander Luthor, and I wonder if he'll be back in issue #7 (with Barry?) to finish off Alex (still think he's the AM ).
I really wonder if Superman of Earth-1/post-Crisis Superman (if we now accept they are one in the same) will have the same pre-crisis power-levels he once had?
Love the Spectre stuff. I actually didn't see it coming and think its a great move. Click Here For A SpoilerCrispus Allen is a great character and it's great to see his story hasn't ended. Plus, its a twist with the Spectre that its not 'Jim Corrigan' (the bad cop from GC) that is the new host. Crisp has some interesting views on vigilantism too. *And* great to see an African American super-hero thats a big gun with some very potential staying power.
Now I need to check out the death thread and see if anyone died that I missed.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: What I'm finding the most annoying part of this series is the weird retconning of what Earth-1 and Earth-2, etc., were to begin with. The Flamebird thing is one thing, but the whole notion that the modern Superman is the Earth-1 Superman just strikes me as ludicrous. And while I can kind of accept Alex Luthor as a villain, Earth-Prime Superboy just`strikes me as completely out of character based on everything we knew about him, and I'm pretty annoyed at Kal-L being duped so easily. And how exactly does the Ray's genetic code contain the vibrational frequency of Earth-X (whatever that means to begin with), when the Ray was originally from Earth-2?
Eryk, given the cover of the next issue, I think that they will address this. I'm hoping at least for a couple of pages devoted to the true return of the real Superman of Earth-1.
I see Byrne's retconned Doom Patrol is there too. Maybe they'll deal with this once and for all?
BTW, I keep thinking about it. No matter how people feel about what they've done with Superboy of Earth-Prime or the violence, I still can't shake the feeling that he's by far the most menacing villain I've seen in any comics story since...well, since the Anti-Monitor 20 years ago.
Also--what does this mean for Hawkman? I know he's in space so may not be effected, but I wonder what Earth he'd go to? He's essentially Katar too, both factually (sucked the essence in) and in the timeline (taking Katar's place in the JLA in the modern DCU).
[ January 21, 2006, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: Cobalt Kid ]
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
INFINITE CRISIS #4
For the first time, IC *feels* like a crisis. Maybe because at least the several different crises are all linked, causing the series title to at last make sense. I haven't a clue where this is going and that's enjoyable. Crowds of heroes, some of whom are rarely seen, huge calamities and snippets of characterization are the order of the day for these 'events'. And, perhaps regrettably, wallops of death and dismemberment.
The visual of those characters inserted in the Anti-Monitor 'tower' is an effective one. Though having The Ray 'channel' (or whatever) the energy of Earth X is a bit far-fetched. And wouldn't J'onn represent Mars 1, rather than Earth?
Odd choices.
Don't get Flamebird disappearing and not Stargirl. But it genuinely surprised me. Like Cobie, I wonder what'll happen to Hawkman... not to mention Jade and Obsidian... Mr. Bones... etc.
I didn't think it was gonna happen, but I'm beginning to wonder if DC really is bringing back a mutiverse of linked earths.
I know I hope the wait for the next issue isn't as long as the wait for this one was.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I see Flamebird as a definate Earth-2 character, given that DC, by doing this, is acknowledging that all these inconsistencies actually exist. I like the idea that the early Silver Age Batwoman and Batgirl actually existed on Earth-2. By including Batwoman as an actual character, it might make it harder to figure out Flamebird's later Teen Titan appearances, but there was so much crossing over from Earth to Earth in the late 60's (for example, Brave and Bold with Batman) that it could be possible.
Not sure if you guys saw that Dan Didio addressed this specifically (or maybe it was just Newsarama? so many articles...). Not sure if a lot of you would agree with the way of thinking, but it was addressed somewhere in an interview.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
As I recall, WWitDCU maintained that there were versions of Batwoman and Batgirl on both Earth-1 and Earth-2, to deal with the inconsistencies about where their stories were placed. Maybe it was the Earth-2 versions that survived the Crisis, with Earth-2 Bette somehow being shoehorned into the Teen Titans as Flamebird? I don't know.
Posted by Rockhopper Lad on :
That's possible. Bette (it was Betty before) is one of those "orphans" of COIE, not unlike Power Girl, Fury and Wonder Girl. Their connection to the Big Three was retconned away, but they somehow survived. When the dust settles, it will be interesting to see how (and if) they fit.
Even though I don't like everything that's going on in IC, I'll admit, I'm very curious about what's going to happen next and where all the chips will fall.
Posted by legionadventureman on :
It would be great if, for once, this latest Crisis would effectively undo all those needless deaths (like Batwoman's, for example) or correct the events which led to Barbara Gordon/Batgirl becoming Oracle, and so forth...
Posted by Owl Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Nightcrawler:
quote:Originally posted by Owl Lad: That Spoiler feature isn't working for me
I feel like I'm at a party where everybody's talking, but I can't hear anything.
Which browser and/or operating system do you use? That may play a role in why it doesn't work. If it's a browser, I can download it and figure out how to make it work.
I use an iMac OS 9.1. I'm probably ancient to you technical wizards out there. Finding anyone who can service Macs is anything short of miraculous.
Posted by doublechinner on :
I love Cobie's point about E' Superboy. I always thought "Superman goes bad" stories were awesome and chilling. First, the thought of a bad guy THAT powerful is terrifying. Second, we are so used to someone wearing the "S" as being a paragon of virtue that a bad "Super" feels delightfully evil.
I don't really know why E' Superboy has gone nuts. It could be as simple as not having grown up with the Kents. Or, it could be Alex Luthor's doing. It does suggest that a Superman is a product of his environment, not just his genetics. Maggin did a great riff on these ideas, I think in "Miracle Monday," where Jonathan Kent has a nightmare of a Superboy gone bad.
Posted by Pov on :
I was horrified reading the SBoy-P/Titans brouhaha.
Most of the casualties I had spoiled for me, but that did little to dull my reactions. If anything, this proves Superman should have slaughtered Batman during the Sacrifice storyline.
Posted by Pov on :
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: I wonder what'll happen to Hawkman...
He stays on E-2... that's why the E-1 Hawkman book is changing to HawkGIRL... ?
Just guessing, but maybe?
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Pov: I was horrified reading the SBoy-P/Titans brouhaha.
Most of the casualties I had spoiled for me, but that did little to dull my reactions. If anything, this proves Superman should have slaughtered Batman during the Sacrifice storyline.
Or it just proves how much control Supes has over his power, even when he's being mind controlled. It is so instinctual to not kill that it couldn't be over-ridden. Superboy P on the other hand has had no such conditioning and really, how much has he gotten to use his powers all these years until Luthor started enacting his plan.
Posted by Spellbinder on :
I bet it's not even Superboy-Prime. I bet it's another of those rotten Superman Robots.
Run, Donna Troy... Run!!!
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
I kind of feel sorry for the poor kid. He's just trying to have a conversation with Kon-El, and his powers get a little out of control, and suddenly there's all these Titans attacking him and of course he accidentally kills a few. And none of them will stop to listen to him! Sheesh!
Posted by Spellbinder on :
Kids can be so cruel Posted by Pov on :
It's nothing to take anybody's head (or arm) off about, though... Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
It was an accident. And besides, it's not like he killed any important Titans. Posted by Pov on :
Ouch.
Cold, but true. Posted by Yellow Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by Spellbinder: ... Superman Robots.
Wow. That would be a prefectly delightful plot twist. That sort of revelation could drive the Earth-2 Superman over that "fine line between genius and insanity".
I could be wrong but doesn't 'ol Clark look a little mesmerized in that last panel? I'm beginning to really wonder about the mental health of our "Strange visitor from another planet". If Superboy could be encouraged to go berserk then perhaps the older Kal-el could go just as mad under carefully arranged circumstances (the trademark of a Luthor btw).
Yeah, I'm actually looking forward to each issue..of a crossover..whodathunkit?
Posted by Spellbinder on :
Well, I finally picked up the latest issue, and once again I am appalled at the graffic nature of this series. The images of the Titan deaths were a bit excessive, I think. Kill them if need be, but those characters have their fan base too, I'm sure, and I would bet that those fans would have preferred that the characters "die heroically" rather than be mutilated.
Posted by Pov on :
Risk isn't dead. He's just called "Lefty" now. Posted by Spellbinder on :
I think having Click Here For A SpoilerPantha's head knocked off was bad enough, but having it bounce across the ground to land in front of her "family" was tacky. And as a Risk fan, I was disappointed that they brought him out of limbo just to rip off his arm. He didn't even get to do anything.
Posted by armsfalloffboy on :
I just hope there's a point to all of this. There's an awful lot of blood being spilled, and if we're just doing it to either a) give everyone a big sigh of relief when it turns out that somehow all this mayhem has been averted when everything turns out okay or b) just to show how important and world changing this crossover is, I'll be disappointed.
Posted by Stratum on :
quote:Originally posted by armsfalloffboy: I just hope there's a point to all of this. There's an awful lot of blood being spilled, and if we're just doing it to either a) give everyone a big sigh of relief when it turns out that somehow all this mayhem has been averted when everything turns out okay or b) just to show how important and world changing this crossover is, I'll be disappointed.
I think that's what a large part of our feeling this way is, AFOB.
Jamie You gonna change your ID to Risk now? Posted by superboymddjr on :
pssstt.....in IC #5, heard that Superboy s back...and something interesting connection among Breach, Huntress, and others...interesting.....and....one beloved character dies. #5 will come out TOMORROW!!! get it!! and I ain't no stinking spoiling!!
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
So, anyone pick up the issue yet? SPOIL US!
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Here you go:
Click Here For A Spoiler
Everyone's confused because of all the heroes who disappeared last issue, including the heroes themselves, who find themselves on a deserted Earth-2.
Booster Gold and the New Beetle visit the Batcave to join his group that he's organizing to go against Brother Eye.
Earth-2 Superman and Lois are happy to be home, until Lois dies. Supes screams out Lois's name, which is apparently heard by the other Supes on Earth-1, who comes racing. They fight.
Wonder Woman receives a visit from Earth-2 Wonder Woman, who tells her that she is fading from existence, but that WW needs to help Supes. She says something about not trying to be perfect, but being human.
WW interrupts the two Supes fighting. Earth-1 Supes says something along the lines of "If you're from this Earth, it can't be perfect. The perfect Earth doesn't need a Superman." Earth-2 Supes suddenly realizes that he's been duped, and the plan was never to bring back Earth-2.
Cut to Alex, who is pushing the next step in his master plan to bring back all of the infinte earths until he finds the perfect one to survive. Along the way he drops some information about various post-Crisis heroes (Breach, Huntress, Kyle Raynor) being from "Earth-8", which is really puzzling.
Thousands of Earths appear in the sky as Superboy and Nightwing prepare to attack Luthor in the arctic.
A Flash appears in Tokyo, where he tells Dr. Light that "they couldn't hold him".
Superboy-Prime re-appears, wearing the Anti-Monitor's armor. Posted by rtvu2 on :
A little expansion from what EDE posted...
Click Here For A Spoiler Breach was to be the Captain Atom of Earth 8. The current Huntress Helena, Kyle Rayner and Jason Rusch Firestorm were supposed to be that Earth 8 versions of GL and Firestorm. So is it safe to say that any new version of a hero we have seen was supposed to be Earth 8's version? Conner Hawke being that worlds Green Arrow. Tim Drake being that worlds only Robin? What do you think the signficane of Earth 8 is?
Also, Dido did an interview for Newsarama saying that it was SB Prime punching the wall to this univerise and everytime he did a time ripple would come about. That would help to explain all the retcons, versions and new histories of all the heroes. Posted by Caliente on :
Yes, yes, YES!!!!
Click Here For A SpoilerFLASH ISN'T DEAD!!
Also, Click Here For A SpoilerWonder Woman of Earth-2 amuses me. Actually, both Wonder Womans amuse me. And, w00t~ for the return of Zauriel!! I him.
Oh, and the Earth-8 stuff made me giggle. I'm not sure why... maybe it was just the mental image of those particular heroes being the only ones on their earth. It'd be... something, all right.
P.S. Did anybody know Ragman was Jewish? That too amused me. As did Blue Devil's appearance. I do so love the Shadowpact.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
I thought it was common knowledge Ragman was Jewish. At least that's how I remember the mini that introduced this version being set up.
Posted by Stratum on :
quote:Originally posted by Caliente:
Click Here For A SpoilerFLASH ISN'T DEAD!!
[/QB]
Take a closer look at the costume....I don't think it's who you think it is.
It was nice to have a relatively peaceful issue.
And Dick and Conner? Woot!
Jamie
Posted by rtvu2 on :
I have to agree with Jamie. I don't think that is who you think it is.
Also some of the 7 Soliders show up. We see Mister Miracle and Frankstein!
(i need to learn how to spell)
[ March 02, 2006, 09:36 AM: Message edited by: rtvu2 ]
Posted by Stratum on :
rtvu2, here's who I thought it was:
Click Here For A SpoilerBarry Allen Flash
Also, I noticed MM but did not see Frankenstein. I'll have to go back and look for him.
I also think Conner isn't long for this world, unfortunately.
Jamie
Posted by rtvu2 on :
Jamie, I agree.
Oh and the Conner I meant was Conner Hawke Green Arrow. I think Kon-El Conner will be sticking around. I hope so.
Posted by Spellbinder on :
I think I read somewhere that they had post-Crisis plans for Conner Hawke. It might have been in one of the OYL Q & A sessions over at Newsarama.
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
I think there was talk of a Conner Hawke miniseries coming in the third wave of OYL.
Posted by Caliente on :
Conner!! All of them--
As for who it was... I never said if I thought it was Click Here For A SpoilerWally or Barry because I really couldn't tell. I don't honestly care. What's important to me is that Click Here For A Spoilereven if the Speed Force is gone, the entire Flash line doesn't seem gone with it. In other words, they aren't all dead, which was my fear. I still don't know if any of them will come back perminent-like but I sure hope so! Especialy Bart and Wally!!
Man, I really like those spoiler tags!
Also, Scott-- there was a Ragman mini? Or did you mean the Day of Vengeance mini? Either way, I missed it. But I like it. Jews represent!
Posted by superboymddjr on :
i felt sad about Earth-2 Wonder Woman's final panel as she flew into the oblivion with smile saying "Even Superman". she was the most bravest human being ever to grace the DC pages. Enjoy in Peace, Diana Prince AKA Wonder Woman, of Earth-2.
Posted by legionadventureman on :
quote:Originally posted by superboymddjr: i felt sad about Earth-2 Wonder Woman's final panel as she flew into the oblivion with smile saying "Even Superman". she was the most bravest human being ever to grace the DC pages. Enjoy in Peace, Diana Prince AKA Wonder Woman, of Earth-2.
So where does that leave Fury/Lyta? Up the creek without an origin?
Posted by superboymddjr on :
Fury/Lyta's dead...at least that's what I hear....ask someone who read JSA.
Posted by legionadventureman on :
Lyta's dead???? Those bastards!!!! Posted by Tamper Lad on :
Yep Fury's dead, Hector too. Gone to live with Dream of the endless.
What's interesting is that DD said in Crisis counselling that there will be minor soft reboots of big three coming in IC 6.
I think we've already seen most of the changes to Superman in Birthright as opposed to Man of Steel. If you've seen the preview for OYL superman there's a tantalizing tease Click Here For A Spoilerfor you Legion fans about Clark's Smallville years post-IC. Make me wonder who the character Wacker was asking for when Didio gave him Supergirl. Posted by superboymddjr on :
see Bizarro's World yet? no one mentions that world yet....I laughed when I saw Bizarro's World as a part of Infinite Earths.
Posted by Invisible Brainiac on :
Click Here For A SpoilerFlash appears in Tokyo, where he tells Doctor Light...
Is this Kimiyo Hoshi? What's her status?
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
Yes. It is. She appears to have gotten her powers back.
Posted by superboymddjr on :
not only Dr. Light II s back..I was baffled by Speedy II's appearance - how does she get into action during Titans and IC while she is being severely injured and missing in Green Arrow? Green Arrow is being impaled but later on he will be alive running as Star City mayor...? *puzzled*
Posted by Invisible Brainiac on :
Thanks Gary. That's great news Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
IB, it certainly is!
Great issue, with lots going on!
- They sure are making us sweat for Nightwing and Conner Kent.
Click Here For A Spoiler- Superboy in the AM's armor? My previous theory looks like it might be right! I remember Johns saying *somewhere* that Superboy Prime will possibly be the best villain he's ever written...
The Earth-8 stuff seems cool, and really doesn't seem too confusing to me. Actually, it makes more sense. Kyle, Jason and Helena all from there, combined into the post multiverse Earth. Breach as the Captain Atom of Earth-8 is interesting too...it explains why his being in the Wildstorm Earth is so crazy (is the Wildstorm Earth then Earth 7?). I do think this will all be explained properly by Marv Wolfman in the Infinite Crisis secret files.
The new Manhunter is from Earth-2...
Great to see WW of Earth-2 and her final heroic scene. I thought that was a nice tribute. Now I can't wait to see Superman of Earth-2 remind everyone why he's the greatest hero of them all. And I want to see Superman post-multiple Earths start being Superman of Earth-1 again (in spirit and in character).
Cali--the Ragman mini-series was a six issue mini from the early 1990's, which established his origin, powers and his being Jewish.
Click Here For A SpoilerIt looks like the Flash is Barry! Either Wally or Barry would work for me, but I don't want a new one. To be honest, I love them both but prefer Wally...but either way I'd be pleased.
This issue had more scenes in it like the old Crisis, where we see other heroes doing stuff, talking, etc., which is definately a good thing. I want to see non-Titans/non-Big Three doing stuff so I'm glad.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
What would make the Earth-8 thing really work is if they claimed that Earth-8 was actually the dominant Earth since Crisis (rather than Earth-1), so that all of the major reboots, retcons, etc. were the result of Earth-8's influence. Let the Earth-1 Superman be the Silver Age Superman, and the Byrne-rebooted Superman be the Earth-8 version.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Now *that's* a good idea, and one that I can easily see Geoff Johns implementing. That way, subtle changes back to the pre-crisis Earth-1, in terms of characters being themselves and tweaks to histories would go along with the general story if Earth-1 (or a new Earth totally) emerges as the dominant entity.
I'm really looking forward to Marv Wolfman's Secret Files book to see him address this stuff.
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
The Earth-8 stuff is interesting, (whatya mean the multiverse has been dead for 20 years? We're still creating new Earths.)
I like the idea that if the multiverse had lived at the end of COIE, the focus of the DCU would have moved to "Earth-8", where we would have seen the a reboot of the whole DCU like at the beginning of the silver-age.
Some silver age characters might have been duplicated there, but the first hero would have been Byrne's MOS Superman who appeared in the mid/late eighties followed by modern age versions of Bruce, Diana, Flash, GL etc whoever they were. A Superman-free rebooted Legion could exist in that future too.
After two years of establishing the new universe, the concept of the multiverse could be re-introduced and the we could have seen the E-1 heroes age in real time, just as the E-2 we saw in the silver and bronze ages.
There's no way this would have flown with the editors back then. So instead we get a partially rebooted DCU with patchwork over patchwork, the continual insipid debate over what did and didn't happen in continuity.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
It really does seem to me to be the best solution to a lot of DC's problems. Hal as Parallax? Don't worry, it was really the crazy Hal of Earth-8 who became Parallax and was succeeded by Kyle Raynor, last of the Green Lanterns! Meanwhile, the Earth-1 Hal Jordan is still heroic.
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
I have a feeling that it'll be revealed that Superboy Prime pounding on reality also caused
1) Superman's origin to change from 'Man of Steel' to 'Birthright' 2) Lifted the 'Sole survivor of Krypton' edict giving us a Kryptonian Supergirl again. 3) Is going to raise the possiblility that Superman could have had adventures as a boy.
Posted by rtvu2 on :
quote:Originally posted by Tamper Lad: I have a feeling that it'll be revealed that Superboy Prime pounding on reality also caused
1) Superman's origin to change from 'Man of Steel' to 'Birthright' 2) Lifted the 'Sole survivor of Krypton' edict giving us a Kryptonian Supergirl again. 3) Is going to raise the possiblility that Superman could have had adventures as a boy.
-It also caused Jason Todd to come back to life according to Batman Annual #25. -Could explain all the various Hawkman/woman -Explained how Bryne's Doom Patrol fits in
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
INFINITE CRISIS #5
I wanted to see more of the characters transported to 'Earth 2'. I *really* wish WONDER WOMAN (the comic) hadn't 'ended', since many scenes in INFINITE CRISIS are fleshed out a bit in the 'main' comics. I would've *loved* an issue long team-up between Princess Diana and Diana Prince. Even if it was an issue-long conversation in the invisible plane.
Her role in the issue was handled beautifully, though. I particularly appreciated how Jimenez portrayed the Earth 2 WW as an obviously elderly-looking woman. One still in great shape, but elderly, nonetheless.
I appreciate all the Superman-centered stuff, but I don't *feel* it-- even the death of Lois-- the way that I remember *feeling* events in the first Crisis.
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: Cali--the Ragman mini-series was a six issue mini from the early 1990's, which established his origin, powers and his being Jewish.
There were two. The one you describe was the first. They followed up with a second a few years later.
Posted by Arachne on :
I was glad to see the original WW. I knew she was out there somewhere. This also gives the current WW a reason to use the surname "Prince".
Posted by legionadventureman on :
There was an old Wonder Woman issue where there were two Diana Princes - the powerful one and the powerless one (it happened before she left the Air Force or whatever)
Posted by Matthew E on :
Just occurred to me - anybody else notice how the OMACs are a lot like terrorforms?
Posted by Pov on :
I love stuff like this-- Newsarama has Sandra Hope's step-by-step inks for Jim Lee's cover to Infinite Crisis #6 .
Love it, I tell you. Almost as cool as getting to see Barry's Legion covers from sketch to finished inks. I'm a geek for this stuff!
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
*ahem*
just this stuff Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
It just occurred to me that I know where we might find Hawkman, still living after Infinite Crisis. In 52 #5, the cover is still top secret, referring to a Mystery in Space. We currently know that Adam Strange will be appearing in 52, and that there are still other heroes to be named appearing there.
I feel like Hawkman may appear there, beginning in #5 (or earlier), and 52 may go a long way to cementing his place in the DCU. At least, I'm hoping.
I swear I read somewhere that Dan Didio said Hawkman would still be around post IC...it would be too much of a waste IMO otherwise!
I at least know they'll address his history in the History of the DCU.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: I at least know they'll address his history in the History of the DCU.
I think Jurgens hinted that we'll see something that will clear up Hawkman's history as well as that of the Legion in his Newsarama interview. I'm still not sure that's what he meant by his answer though.
Posted by Omni Craig on :
They went to so much trouble trying to straighten out the "too many Hawkmen" mess, they really shouldn't go killing Carter off anytime soon again!
Posted by Stratum on :
Okay, here's a few spoilers from IC#6 and TT: OYL:
IC:
Click Here For A Spoiler - It looks like Earth Prime will be the new Earth - The Beetle Scarab fears GL's and somehow disrupts the power from OA as evidenced by the rings sparking in its presence.
And for a very special Legion spoiler:
Click Here For A SpoilerThe DnA Legion makes and appearance fighting on an Earth-247....
And now TT: OYL
Click Here For A Spoiler - Ravager (Rose Wilson) IS a titan. - That IS Kid Devil as we thought. - A young Zatara makes an appearance! - Looks like Gar will be forming Titans east. - Cyborg was in a coma for some time....did not know who they were or why they were in Titans Tower. -Tim is trying to clone Conner....
-WENDY AND MARVIN?!?!?!?!?!?!
If I can recall anything else, I'll post it.
Jamie
Posted by Matthew E on :
I have a hard time accepting your first IC spoiler. How the deuce could they make that work?
Posted by Stratum on :
Matthew,
That's a complete inferrence on my part...based on what was happening at the end of the issue.
Jamie
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
That's not what I got out of it at all:
Click Here For A SpoilerAlexander Luthor is searching for Earth-Prime, with the intention of making it the new the basis of the new Earth, but he gets interupted by the Superboys destroying the machine. The new Earth seems to be a random mixture of other Earths. Posted by Stratum on :
EDE,
Like I said, inference. I could be completely wrong but I got the impression he found what he was looking for right before.
Jamie
Posted by Matthew E on :
Ah, well, if it's like EDE says, that's a whole nother thing. That I could see. Or even if it's a combination of your theories.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
So, I'm in NYC and know I'll be away all weekend on business, so I couldn't help it and grabbed a copy--specifically to read during work!
My thoughts:
The best issue so far. By far. A really, really, great issue.
Bats & crew vs. Brother Eye -- awesome! Finally some action to this story, and it was all great.
Superman of E2's story is moving along, and I'm now ready to see him shine next issue.
The Mystics -- cool. Glad to see so many gathered, which reminded me of the Perez scenes of the first Crisis. The Spectre's return was awesome.
That big splash with all the Earths. Earth-247 was fun to see. And it resolved a long-standing Legion loose end in a way that pleases me.
The heroes in space -- not much specific happening here, although that blast could potentially be a reason for big changes to come.
Click Here For A SpoilerI also took the 'New Earth' to mean what EDE says, a combination of all Earths and the end of the multiverse.
Click Here For A SpoilerBlack Adam's killing of Psycho Pirate -- despite the gore, I cheered! I've been waiting for something like this...Black Adam to cut loose and the Pirate to get his come-uppance.
Click Here For A SpoilerBats & his final words to Brother Eye -- another cheer worthy moment. Welcome back Bruce. His eariler scene with Oliver was great too.
Click Here For A SpoilerCassie, Dick and Conner being true heroes. And it really seemed that way. Cassie joining them, Dick kicking Alex in the face (I cheered there too!), and Conner being a hero after all. I've disilked Conner for a loooong time, but the latest Titans annual and this issue turned that around for me...
Good to see Ray, Lady Quark, Nightshade and J'Onn in action.
Superboy Prime is surely the most terrifying villain in a long time. And Alexander Luthor's obsession with finding a new Earth is equally as scary. They are very dynamic throughout.
Click Here For A SpoilerAnd the finale -- I knew this was coming long ago, but I didn't realize I would grow to like Conner over the course of this Infinite Crisis saga. It was a sad end, and Cassie's tears were really conveyed. I felt it was powerful. The final splash page was intense, and now I want the final battle. Rest well Conner Kent...what you lacked throughout your history you had in your end.
Overall, I felt this was a very exciting issue, with some powerful and well-written scenes.
Posted by rtvu2 on :
So my thoughts...I agree with EDE & Cobalt.
Also...Click Here For A Spoiler Where did Breach, Nightshade and the others disapper to durning the fight? To there earths? [spoiler]
Gar didn't [spoiler] form Titans East, he formed and new version of the Doom Patrol. One that included Bumblebee! Qucik, someone tell Lash!
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Yeah, I read it that
Click Here For A SpoilerBreach and the others got too far away from the tower and disappeared. Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
As did I
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
They're really packing a lot of action into these issues.
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
They promised epic, so it's epic we get.
Posted by disaster boy on :
love it. great stuff. especially the three titans.
and the j'onn j'onzz moment!! "i'm the last martian, there's a reason why beyyyotchh!!!"
Posted by Stratum on :
Also anyone notice the Swamp Thing appearance? With the group at Stonehenge?
And rtv, thanks for the clarification on the DP thing. I didn't have as much time to read through it like I normally did yesterday and assumed it was Titans East.
Have we seen anything on the new DP yet though?
After rereading the issue, I agree there is a merger, but I still contend that Earth-Prime was the genesis for it. It seems there was too much emphasis on what Alex was doing to just toss it away.
And I'll I gotta say is, it was nice to see Dick Grayson acting more like I expect of him....of course, that could be that Winnick isn't writing him. Ollie too, for that matter.
Jamie
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
If Earth Prime is a stronger part of the "New Earth" mix, does it follow that pre-crisis comic books (like those seen in WaK LSH) are a part of the everyday life in the post-IC DCU?
Because practically every comic from pre-crisis was published on Earth-Prime.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
I was a little puzzled on exactly why Alex started looking for Earth-Prime. Just because Superboy-Prime told him to? That seemed really odd.
Posted by Stratum on :
quote:Originally posted by Tamper Lad: If Earth Prime is a stronger part of the "New Earth" mix, does it follow that pre-crisis comic books (like those seen in WaK LSH) are a part of the everyday life in the post-IC DCU?
Because practically every comic from pre-crisis was published on Earth-Prime.
Possibly. Remember, the OYL Superman discusses the 'mysterious Superboy'....
What I wonder now is what that say about the original Earth-1 Legion, that they only exist in comics? Especially considering that the current Legion is supposed to be the 'real' Legion.
Jamie
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: I was a little puzzled on exactly why Alex started looking for Earth-Prime. Just because Superboy-Prime told him to? That seemed really odd.
That world had no luthor (i'll say yet). The superman boy of that world is right next to him.
He stated in a previous issue Superman and Luthor will always be at odds in any reality. I think he plans to kill SBP and live as a Luthor without Superman in the new world.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Anyone up for giving a run-down of every magic-user at Stonehedge? Someones *gotta* want to
I was shocked, shocked I tell you, of the inclusion of Anima and animus (girl on top of the monster on top of the pillar). She's a 1990's Bloodlines hero!! For some reason, I find her inclusion very impressive and a nod to knowing the entire history of the DCU. I thought I saw Looker in there too...
Posted by rtvu2 on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: Anyone up for giving a run-down of every magic-user at Stonehedge? Someones *gotta* want to
I was shocked, shocked I tell you, of the inclusion of Anima and animus (girl on top of the monster on top of the pillar). She's a 1990's Bloodlines hero!! For some reason, I find her inclusion very impressive and a nod to knowing the entire history of the DCU. I thought I saw Looker in there too...
I thought that was Stanley and his Monster....
Posted by Stratum on :
I'll start the list with what I can recall
Zatanna Phantom Stranger Swamp Thing Madame Xanadu Stanley and his Monster (Is this who you thought was Anima, Cobie?) Enchantress Blue Devil Faust Jr. Klarion the Witch Boy - Bum, dum, dum!
More as I think of them.
Jamie
Posted by Stratum on :
quote:Originally posted by rtvu2: I thought that was Stanley and his Monster....
I call Jinx!
Jamie
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Huh. You guys might be right on Stanley.
Also, Klarion was the Klarion of 7 Soldiers (with his cat Teekhl) and not bum, dum, bum (I'm pretty sure that bit will be forgotten).
Pretty sure that was 7 Soldiers Shining Knight holding the leader of Shadowpact's hand too (I suddenly forget his name).
Was that Looker in the yellow costume on the right page in the circle? I remember her having that costume in the late 90's.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
I wonder how long it will be before we see an all-new Psycho Pirate?
Posted by Stratum on :
Cobie,
I'm pretty sure it is Stanley as this matches their depiction in Green Arrow recently.
Dunno about Looker but I did recognize Amethyst. And that is the 7 Soldiers Klarion, I was just being facetious. And it's Nightmaster, you're thinking of.
Jamie
Posted by rtvu2 on :
Don't forget that the Janissary-with the book, Empress,Blakc Orchid, Witchfire, Detective Chimp, Jakhem Thunder, Rex the Wonder dog and I thougth I saw the Demon too.
And no Jinx Jamie, I posted a whole 9 mins before you did! Posted by superboymddjr on :
Valda, Empress, Black Orchid, Amethyst, Rex the Wonder Dog, Olympian (that one surprised me), Salamanca (I think it's her name), El Muerta, Star Sapphire (another GL foe killed off - what's this ? most GL foes are being cleaned off one by one....same with Batman Foes with KGBeast/Demon and Ventroliquist - Scarface killed off in OYL), hmmm i am at work right now and trying to remember...maybe I saw Black Annie or Traci 13?? not sure....hmmm.yes it was Looker sporting the 90s costume, Ragman...
Posted by Stratum on :
quote:Originally posted by rtvu2: Don't forget that the Janissary-with the book, Empress,Blakc Orchid, Witchfire, Detective Chimp, Jakhem Thunder, Rex the Wonder dog and I thougth I saw the Demon too.
And no Jinx Jamie, I posted a whole 9 mins before you did!
ONLY because I got up to stretch my legs and try to remember some of the others....
Jamie
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I knew if I asked the question it'd be answered by the end of the afternoon You guys rawk!
I forgot Empress was there, I was going to post that earlier for any YJ readers that aren't picking this up. When I saw the panel with them all gathering I was thinking "yes, yes, yes! *This* is why I liked the first Crisis so much!".
If no one minds repeated questions, where in the world are Olympian, Salamanca, Witchfire and El Muerta from? (I believe Janissary was from an annual a few years back, but not completely sure if I'm right).
Supes - you did indeed see Black Annie (or at least I thought it was her).
Posted by Stratum on :
El Muerta is from Nightwing. He was a henchman of Blockbuster's. He may have had other appearances but this is where I know him from.
[ April 06, 2006, 12:59 PM: Message edited by: Stratum ]
Posted by rtvu2 on :
Olympiana - Global Guardian Salamanca - same as Janissary I think, DC Annual Witchfire -Power Company
Posted by Stratum on :
Can I call it now? <G>
Jamie
Posted by Quislet, Esq. on :
Do we really need a spoiler thread when DC does it already?
Really shouldn't the one year later books have waited until the end of Infinite Crisis?
Posted by Stratum on :
Also, just found this on the Absorbacon's comments page:
Earth-0: Bizzaro Htrae
Earth-97: Tangent Comics.
EARTH-154: Home of the Super-Sons, children derived from the marriages of Clark Kent & Lois Lane and Bruce Wayne & Kathy Kane.(World's Finest #154, 157).
Earth-247: The post-Zero Hour Legion of Super-heroes. Shikari, previously seen lost in the current version of the 30th century, has found her teammates. Grife.
EARTH-898: A world where a genetically modified Jimmy Olsen threatened Earth's entire metahuman population until the hero destined to be known as Superman rose up to stop him (JLA: The Nail #1-3). Revealed as a distinct parallel world in The Kingdom #2. This is from the Absolute Crisis on Infinite Earths Compendium list of Earths by Mark Waid. No mention of Western heroes.
Jamie
Posted by Quislet, Esq. on :
quote:Originally posted by Stratum: I'll start the list with what I can recall
Zatanna Phantom Stranger Swamp Thing Madame Xanadu Stanley and his Monster (Is this who you thought was Anima, Cobie?) Enchantress Blue Devil Faust Jr. Klarion the Witch Boy - Bum, dum, dum!
More as I think of them.
Jamie
I think Mr. Twister was also there. Mr. Twister was the villian from the team-up of Robin, Kid Flash, & Aqualad
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Can someone answer this one? Why did Rex say "I turn into water, not make it." to Plastic Man in the Titans annual when Plas was asking for water for people to drink when he could turn into oxygen for people to breathe in IC#6? What's the difference?
Posted by Mattropolis on :
I think it would mean they would be drinking a part of him?
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
But how's that different from breathing him? In his different form he would still be processed by the human body. You don't breathe in oxygen and release it unchanged.
Posted by Mattropolis on :
thats true... I don't know then...
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Not having read the Titans annual, did he say he couldn't turn into water for people to drink or that he just didn't want to? I can see turning into air for others to breathe or water to drink if it's necessary, but it might not be the most fun thing to do, even for an elemental freak.
But it may just be a matter of the fact that Rex's powers aren't well-defined.
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Lightning Lad: But how's that different from breathing him? In his different form he would still be processed by the human body. You don't breathe in oxygen and release it unchanged.
The biochemist in me screams out to draw flow charts showing where the oxygen we breathe goes. It actually is converted to water. The carbon dioxide we breathe out is from the glucose (or fat) we burn.
So those breathing Rex in, gotta let him out another way Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Which is why I said release. Trying not to be graphic. Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Also on-hand at Stonehedge:
Mya, the hero from Justice League Europe from back in the day. I remember being shocked to see her.
And was Tasmanian Devil also there (his silhoette) or is my memory going all wacky again?
Posted by Quislet, Esq. on :
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: Not having read the Titans annual, did he say he couldn't turn into water for people to drink or that he just didn't want to? I can see turning into air for others to breathe or water to drink if it's necessary, but it might not be the most fun thing to do, even for an elemental freak.
But it may just be a matter of the fact that Rex's powers aren't well-defined.
I think they are defined enough so that we know that he can't spontaneously increase his mass and thus produce additional oxygen or water. I assume that some writers do not realize this or ignore it.
I also believe in his original run, he could only turn into elements that exist in the human body. One could infer that all the elements in Rex's body didn't increase, but that they just all collected together. So Rex only has as much iron as is in a human body initially, but he could collect it all together to form a skin around himself. His body is fluid so he would also be able to form other shapes, but again not be able to increase his mass.
Posted by Stratum on :
But would Rex be able to turn into a chemical that when coming into contact with the chemicals in space would give off Oxygen?
And Cobie, you are correct about Taz and Mya. They were both at Stonehenge.
Jamie
Posted by doublechinner on :
Has anyone commented yet on the revelations of the "New Earth" assembly page?
Like, it sure looks as if a Superboy, with a Superdog, is standing in front of a "Welcome to Smallville" sign?
If this page really represents the assembly of the new DC universe, and not just easter eggs to fans, then this seems like MOMENTOUS news. Does anyone know about this?
Oh, and it looks like Wonder Woman is once again present at the formation of the JLA, undoing that stupid 80's "all changes happen NOW" policy.
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
The question is whether the images on the shards are the bits which are to be put in or broken off of the New Earth continuity.
I hope most of this will be covered in the History of the DCU and the Secret Origins back up features of 52.
Posted by Spellbinder on :
It was kinda hard to say. I wasn't sure if the shards represented what was going into the New Earth, or were meant to be broken bits of multiple earths being destroyed.
Of course, there's still one more issue in which the "Super-Manitor" can shake the continuity tree a bit before meeting his end (or becoming the new Superboy of the DCU)...
Posted by Stratum on :
I say yes. I poured over this page a good 10 minutes the other night and if you look closely at the progression of the planets you see that the shards all form into one of the earlier phases of the earth.
At least that was my take on it.
Jamie
Posted by MLLASH on :
WOW, IC # 6-- *WHAT* an issue. TONS of great moments.
*sigh*... SPOILERS FOLLOW, of course...
. . . . .
As a Clone-El Superboy fan all along, you can guess how it affected me.
But I think what most startled and bothered me was the out-of-nowhere death of STAR SAPPHIRE. This is the Star Sapphire from the 70s Secret Society of Super-Villains and I really liked her.
If this is paving the way for the crappy Carol Ferriss version to return... Posted by Stratum on :
quote:Originally posted by MLLASH: If this is paving the way for the crappy Carol Ferriss version to return... [/QB]
I think you called this one, Lash. At the very least, it will be another Jordan conquest.
Jamie
Posted by Spellbinder on :
Just out of curiousity, but wasn't Star Sapphire a villain? If so, why was she working alongside the heroes to resurrect the Spectre? Or are the villains working with the heroes now that their Earth is in peril? I realize that Black Adam was working with the heroes at the end, but I don't think of him so much as a villain as I do a demi-god, and therefore subject to his own rules Posted by MLLASH on :
Kinda like me! Posted by Omni Craig on :
I wondered how you could survive as just a head, LASH!
Posted by the boy with UltraPowers on :
another great issue !! and i'm truly sorry to see CONNER die !! i think he's really grown as a character during Geoff's run on the 'TEEN TITANS' !!
and he was HOT too !!
do we think he'll return ??
from the recent PODCASTS that i've listened to, the creators have mentioned past DEATHS and how if a character dies, they should stay DEAD, and from DAN's 'DC NATION' pages, it sonds like CONNER will remain dead !!
i'm !! let's hope TIM gets those experiments working .......
Matthew.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
It looks like IC #7 will have heroes vs. villains in Metropolis (with some more possible death) and Superboy Prime vs. Supes, Bats, Wondy, GL, and their respective families, as well as J'Onn and Power Girl (and who else knows?!). It looks pretty darn cool!
YOu can also see Hourman, Arsenal and Lady Quark all battling in the Perez cover, so I hope they make it out OK! (Hourman apparently is against Deathstroke of all people...). Here's hoping Lady Quark mercilessly kills Dr. Light!
Posted by Spellbinder on :
Cover your breasts, Rick Tyler!
I'm sorry... the Jim Lee cover looks nice and all, but there's no one who draws a cover like George...
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
Okay, I feel the need to step up here. Folks are being unduly harsh towards Deathstroke. Sure, he killed Phantom Lady, but he is "Deathstroke, the Terminator." And yes, he buried his sword in her ample brests. She dresses like that to distract her foe- and it worked. Slade was merely focused on her boobies when he was got the job done. Really, you can't blame him for the cleavage damage.
Posted by Spellbinder on :
Tell that to Phantom Lady Posted by superboymddjr on :
Dr Light will live...I remember seeing his name in the future issue of Titans...maybe I am wrong....oh well....I see Black Manta...Bulleteer....Amazo....Cheetah....Steel....Star Spangled Kid...Per Degaton....Bizarro....Robin.....Bane....Harley Quinn...trying to remember the picture I studied a few minutes ago....Sinestro......Mary Marvel...wonder Woman.....Raven.....Prof Zoom....Flash Jay Garrick.....Killer Croc (I think)....Poison Ivy (thought she was dead....) Metamorpho (or Shift?)....Bolt (for once, somebody kept bringing him alive - same thing with Major Force - do they share the healing power?)....Green Arrow....black Canary....oh boy gotta get back....later... *grin* as you can tell..I love Perez cover!!
Posted by superboymddjr on :
say needs your help - on Perez cover...villains vs heroes....I need to ID three figures....
Who are: #1 - cape and funny-looking shoe on the right top side - is that Trickster aka Jesse James?
#2 - a figure knocked out by Thunderbolt - ( I kept thinking Obsidian but cannot be him because of his arm looks familiar.)?
#3 - the guy clinging on the ledge shooting at someone - behind Mary Marvel's arm...Jack Knight? Crimson Avenger?
#4 - Rag Doll? or is that Dr Psycho? falling off in front of damaged Daily Planet globe...
okay - judging from the cover and Dan DiDeo's comments on that there will be many casualties in #7 -
I predict:
Deaths of Per Degaton (shot arrow by Green Arrow?), Neutron, Gorilla Grodd, Bolt (yes again!), Weather Wizard
Capt Marvel Jr, Hourman II, Arsenal, Aquaman will be seriously injured - one of them will be paralyzed - broken back.
Posted by superboymddjr on :
As extracted from the DC MB as source:
"In next week's(and this week's Batman#651 reprint) DC Nation, Dan Didio supposedly transcribes his discussion with Geoff Johns about issue #7
Dan provides teases for a few pages
Click Here For A Spoiler
****SPOILERS*****
"p.2 and 3 - Double page spread. I like heroes vs villains, but just because you have a DC Encyclopedia, that doesn't mean you have to use every character in those two pages. p. 4- OUCH! Bane's back and he's breaking backs again. Will make sure Batman Editor Pete Tomasi is aware of this. p. 5 -It's only page 5 and we already have an extremly high body count; don't forget you need to leave someone to kill for the end of the story, too. p. 10 - Ooooh, so that's who The Flash is. Will check to see if Editor Joan Hilty has the same one in the new FLASH series. p. 11 - Great, now you have a splash page with every single flying hero in the DCU. Phil is gonna think you hate him. p. 14 - The Thin Green Line. I LOVE IT! You're right; this is perfect for George to draw. p. 16 and 17 - More casualities? Works for me. p. 18 - Dude, we did not go through all that trouble bringing Hal back just to kill him again. Please change it. p. 28 - Wow. Big moment. Not sure I can approve this happening. Have to take it up with Paul Levitz and hope he's in a good mood. p. 30 - I was wondering when you were going to bring him back, but hell, that scene is a little too brutal, even for me. p. 32 and 33 - Nice wrap to the story and a great setup for the first issue of 52. p. 34 and 35 - Another double-page spread of the entire DCU? Phil again? I don't want to make that call (I'll have Berganza do it). p. 36 - You dog. Should have known you would end on him. Approved.
By the way, I agree completely; we can't cut the page count. I'll make sure we keep this issue at 36 pages without raising the price. The fans have been great to us, and it's a nice way to thank them for joining this wild ride."
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
#1 - I think it is Hawk III.
#2 - Too hard to tell without color.
#3 - Too hard to tell without color.
#4 - Too hard to tell without color.
I see ?#2, Thunderbolt (of Johnny Thunder fame), Bulleteer (new Seven Soldiers of Victory), Weather Wizard, Raven, Beast Boy, Star-Girl, Hawk III, Per Degaton, Steel, Lady Quark, Dr. Light I, Neutron, Wonder Girl II, Man-Bat, Bizarro, Robin, Captain Marvel Jr., Amazo, Bolt, Black Adam, Metamorpho, Sinestro, Cheetah, Solomon Grundy, Green Arrow, Wildcat, Arsenal, Harley Quinn, Clock King, Bane, Aquaman, Reverse-Flash II, Flash I, Shadow-Thief, Killer Croc, Gorilla Grodd, Fire, Wonder Woman, ?#4, Floronic Man, Black Canary, Poison Ivy, ?#3, Mary Marvel, ?, Batman, Heat Wave, Black Manta, Captain Cold, Deathstoke, & Hourman II.
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
Re: Spoilers...
I'm so sick of this death glut that DC is in. Can we get back to telling cool stories where the heroes win/survive in the end? They're turning this life-long DC fan off big-time.
Posted by superboymddjr on :
Hawk III was depowered (somehow later regain later during OYL)...not on the cover...
Nightwing, Scarecrow, Stripes, Plastic Man are on the cover...
Nightwing is knocking Scarecrow out (seen next to Mary Marvel)
STRIPE is seen below Mary Marvel and on Batman's left shoulder.
Plastic Man's head is seen on the letter L of the Daily Planet (the first one) next to Black Canary.
So when will IC # 7 go on sale? Can't wait.
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
quote:Originally posted by superboymddjr: Hawk III was depowered (somehow later regain later during OYL)...not on the cover....
Why couldn't she and Dove have gained their powers back in time for this cover? Do you know something I don't?
I did notice all of those too, but forgot to add them to the list.
Posted by superboymddjr on :
hmm I mean that Hawk and Dove were depowered by Spectre when their agents were presumedly disposed by Spectre during the Day of Vengence Special and then recently - Hawk and Dove were seen briefly in Teen Titans #34 after OYL...so I assumed that they must have gotten their power during the time in the OYL span. so logically that Hawk could not be on the cover. hmm...does that make sense?
Posted by Stratum on :
Damn! For the first time in this series, I actually love both covers!
Damn!
Jamie
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
So, is #7 out on next Wed? Here's hoping! I'm ready to see the ending already and move on to 52! Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Out next Wednesday with six extra pages of story according to Newsarama.
Posted by Pov on :
Colored covers up at Newsarama.
Posted by superboymddjr on :
at last....solved finally but still not sure with one figure on G.P. Cover.....not trickster! it's Felix Faust. The one attacked by Thunderbolt is Baron Blitzkrieg and the one near Mary Marvel clinging to the wall - is that Starman Jack Knight??? or Hitman back from dead? Anyway beautiful covers!!!
Posted by Stratum on :
From the top left across:
Baron Blitzkrieg Thunderbolt Bulleteer III Raven Felix Faust Weather Wizard Stargirl Per Degaton Bolt Robin III Beast Boy Lady Quark Amazo Bizarro Dr. Light I Steel II Black Adam Captain Marvel, Jr. Man-Bat Wonder Girl II Neutron Metamorpho Sinestro Solomon Grundy Green Arrow I Wildcat I Aresenal Bane Aquaman II Reverse-Flash II Flash I Cheetah II Plastic Man Black Canary II Doctor Psycho Nightwing Scarecrow Mary Marvel Hitman (?) Poison Ivy Gorilla Grodd S.T.R.I.P.E. Batman Heat Wave Floronic Man Wonder Woman II Killer Croc Black Manta Deathstroke Hourman II
Jamie
Posted by Spellbinder on :
So like, didn't the final issue come out today?
Where are all those spoilers for those of us not getting our comics until the weekend? Posted by disaster boy on :
yes it did. i picked it up. that is all. Posted by matlock on :
There were some lengthy ones posted at the DCMB's already which were unfortunately accurate, it seems. I don't think I'll be bothering to read any of this at all...
Posted by Quislet, Esq. on :
Click Here For A SpoilerBrother Power the Geek does not appear at all
Click Here For A SpoilerSuperboy Prime is psychotic
Click Here For A SpoilerAquaman disbands the Justice League and reforms them in Detroit. (oh wait that was just a flashback I was experiencing)
Click Here For A SpoilerSuperman and Batman consummate their love for each other (oh wait that was just a dream I had)
Click Here For A SpoilerI am such a tease Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Come on guys. Let's get some real spoilers going here. I won't get my copy until a week from this coming Monday. Unless I want to pay full cover price and try to find a copy at the store tonight.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
It's pretty crappy.
Posted by Reboot on :
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: It's pretty crappy.
This is a surprise?!
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Click Here For A SpoilerThe story opens with the heroes standing over Superboy's corpse. Green Lantern shows up and tells them that the Society is attacking Metropolis. Apparently, Alex Luthor has decided if he can't recreate the Earth he wants, he'll conquer this one. Oh, and he mentions that this is another New Earth, not the same as the one before.
Anyway, there's several pages of tons of people who I don't recognize getting killed.
Bart Allen shows up wearing Barry Allen's uniform.
Superboy-Prime decides to destroy Oa, and with this new universe. All the flying heroes take off after him. The Green Lanterns make a stand to protect Oa, which slows Superboy-Prime down enough for the rest to catch up.
Alex tries to blast Batman, but hits Nightwing instead, seemingly killing him. Batman punches Alex, and considers shooting him in the head, before Wonder Woman shows up. Wonder Woman reminds him that killing Alex wouldn't be worth it. Alex is seemingly killed when a building collapses.
The two Superman attack Superboy-Prime, flying him through the remains of Krypton, through Krypton's red sun, and eventually to Mogo, the Green Lantern planet. They are all gradually losing their powers, but they fight, and Superman of Earth-2 is beaten pretty badly before Superman of Earth-1 finally defeats Superboy-Prime. Superboy of Earth-2 dies. He's apparently buried next to Lois and Kon-El.
Bart had only enough residual speed force energy to last through the one battle, so he gives up being Flash, and gives the mantle back to Jay.
Alex turns out to still be alive in Gotham City, but not for long, as Lex Luthor and the Joker catch up to him and the Joker kills him for not letting him in the Society.
Diana, Clark, and Bruce all take off for their respective years off.
The series ends with Superboy-Prime imprisoned in a cell in the center of Oa, vowing to escape. Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Thanks Eryk. Doesn't seem it really cleared anything up. Was the issue of multiple Earths even touched on? Not worth an extra $4.00 and a trip to the store.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Nope. Basically, they seem to have cleared up a bit of the dammage done to the DCU by the first Crisis, but overall the changes to the DCU don't seem to be much greater than those wrought by the Zero Hour crapfest. In other words, very little is really fixed. Hardly the new, improved DCU that was supposed to come out of this.
Posted by Stratum on :
Actually, it leaves it's own set of questions at the end. While I haven't given it a full read, I have given it a quick run through.
Click Here For A SpoilerWhat happened to Alex's powers that he gets capped so easily?
Click Here For A SpoilerWhere's Donna and the others? Such a big deal was made about their departure, and they only played a small part!
Click Here For A SpoilerI think the Flash is NOT going to be Jay Garrick. This smells of a setup.
Click Here For A SpoilerWonder Woman stopping Batman from pulling the trigger? After the big deal was made about her being a 'warrior'? What a cop out!
Click Here For A SpoilerAnd they lock SP up for eternity? That did work the first two times...what makes them think it will work again?
Jamie
[ May 03, 2006, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: Stratum ]
Posted by disaster boy on :
someone who looks like dick grayson in civies appears at the end. (him?)
bart ages a couple years comes back dressed as flash (looking pretty much like wally west) only to lose his powers? wtf.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
One of the more intriguing things about the book is that last splash pages and what it hints about the future: -- Batwoman? -- Jay's there and so's the Flash. So who's wearing Wally's costume? -- The Marvel Family - Cap gets white duds and a hood (since he's trapped in the Rock?) and Kid Marvel gets the red outfit. -- Martian Manhunter gets a new "conehead" look -- I hadn't seen him in the previews, but there appears to be a new Black Condor as well. -- Is that Kingdom Come Starman? Who was that supposed to be anyway? Thom?
other random thoughts: -- the art changes weren't too bad, but it was noticeably different (and of much lower quality on the "like hell" page and even that last splash at the end. -- It's such a cop-out that Superboy was nothing more than a psychotic madman running around ripping people in half. Aside from the pretty art, there wasn't much to the "climax". When they turned Hal into Parallax as the villain for Zero Hour, they did the same thing - making him mad just negates the dramatic power and inner conflict of having a formerly great hero go bad.
[ May 04, 2006, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: DrakeB3004 ]
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
I wonder what the odds are that in the next huge Crisis-type event, Superboy-Prime manages to redeem himself by saving the day?
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
That would only work if he sacrifices himself in the attempt. According to DiDio all but one person in the DCU will now remember everything about their past, pre-post-Crisis/Zero Hour. Too many people saw SBP's bloodrage to accept him.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Yeah, that's what I meant. He saves the day by making a big heroic comic-book style sacrifice.
The more I think about it, the more I'm puzzled by how Alex got taken out so easily. He's incredibly powerful one moment, then it's like he's an ordinary guy the next.
Posted by Spellbinder on :
Tell that to Hal Jordan Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Yeah, there's always the whole "The Anti-Monitor made me do it" way out. Posted by disaster boy on :
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: It's pretty crappy.
sums it up.
comes complete with action figures though!!!
Posted by matlock on :
Not to bash something I haven't and won't read (unless I flip through the inevitable TPB at Barnes & Nobles or whatever,) but it just seems utterly stupid that Power Girl will remember being Kal-L's cousin, even though she patently is not since he didn't exist now. Wouldn't that just make everyone with the overlapping memories go crazy eventually? Good lord.
According to Dan DiDio's comments over at Newsarama, the Matrix/Linda Earth Angel Supergirl is out of continuity now. Hypertime's back out too now if I read his comments correctly. Um, if the Speed Force is burned out now does that mean all those future Flashes are out also? If there's no Speed Force now and in the future, where did Bart get his powers from?
Anyway. Killing off Kal-L is a great big flamingly stupid move. They never should have touched him after Crisis #12. Sigh.
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: The more I think about it, the more I'm puzzled by how Alex got taken out so easily. He's incredibly powerful one moment, then it's like he's an ordinary guy the next.
Let's see we can pick A.) Superboy-Prime's "punching the fabric of reality" B.) The new (convoluted) history of the "new" Earth had him reborn without his powers C.) Come up with any crappy, nonsensical explanation. The people paid by DC Comics seem to.
Was there any point to any of this? At least the prior Crisis brought the Golden Age/Silver Age/Bronze Age/non-DC Originating characters all upon one Earth. This one seems as pointless and stupid as Zero Hour. Maybe more so.
For the first time in my life, I have more respect for Marvel than DC. They better get rid of Didio fast before I stop collecting them too.
[ May 03, 2006, 02:17 PM: Message edited by: Nightcrawler ]
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Even with the stuff they fixed... what's the point of giving us a "kind of/maybe" Superboy if they weren't going to use that to restore the real Legion?
Posted by disaster boy on :
i'm with Superboy Prime.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
To make things even more confusing, in the latest JSA Click Here For A Spoilerthe ghost of the Earth-2 Batman shows up to help out Posted by rtvu2 on :
Don't forget that some kids find the Green Lantern of the Tangent verse's green lantern.
I am sure that all the questions we have will be answered in due time. I liked the issue. But that's just me.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Just read it. Unbelievable. I thought it was amazing. My lil bro's reading it right now, so I'll try to give quick comments on various things:
Click Here For A Spoiler Superboy's death was portrayed very appropriately. The Big 3 were great all issue and were themselves again...and they were great at the end.
Superman of Earth-2 and Superman of Earth-1 teaming up for the big final battle...*sniff*. It was worth it for that!
TONS and TONS of little bits that were pleasing, like all three bat-family members taking on Deathstroke, a whole host of New Bloods killed (haha, I called for this months ago!), the Joker and Lex finish off Alex, and so much more.
Hawkman still lives! Yay! Superman had a pre-Metropolis career! Yay (real Superboy)! Diana founded the JLA! Stupid Peacemaker of the 90's killed off! Great GL action! Superboy Prime being IMO the biggest villain since the Anti-Monitor in any comic book universe! Action, great art, etc., etc.
It'll take me another read and some time to digest it all.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I did think the Superboy Prime/Alex Luthor plans and endings were a little of a let-down, but the overall battle was cool.
Plus, a hint of future things included...Starman (Thom)? I'm curious! And a confirmation of 'Mystery in Space' and 'Tales of the Unexpected' to begin sometime soon...
Eryk, Nighty & others, I'm hoping that 'History of the DCU' clears up some stuff for all of us in regards to what continuity is now.
I actually thought it was a pretty good tale and made things less confusing than 1985 - 2006.
*choke* Tell me that blast on the Bloodlines characters wasn't great though!
[ May 03, 2006, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: Cobalt Kid ]
Posted by Reboot on :
So, that's the Pérez Wonder Woman run out-of-continuity then...
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
I suppose if I actually recognized any of those characters from the Crap Age of Comics, I'd have been a lot more enthusiastic about their demise. Unfortunately, I don't have your Encyclopedic knowledge of the Bloodlines characters, Cobie...
Of course, we don't know all the consequences of this, yet. But I'm just not optimistic about it really making anything any better than it has been for the past twenty years. And I'm still not happy with the treatment of the Crisis survivors.
Posted by Matthew E on :
I think a lot of you are missing the point. This Crisis wasn't primarily about fixing continuity problems or Changing Everything Around. I would say that these are the motivations for this Crisis:
4. (I might rank this one higher.) To tell a story that they thought was cool and to pay tribute to cool stories of the past.
3. To provide an opportunity for making changes in continuity, where appropriate; to loosen the grip of some of the silly continuity constraints that have applied over the past couple of decades; to thin out the herd of some of the characters they didn't want to use anymore.
2. To have a Big Event that sells a lot of comic books. Which is fair enough.
1. To revise the tone of the DC Universe - heroes more heroic, villains more villainous, more emphasis on secret identities, more differentiation between characters, all the stuff the DC creators been saying in chats and interviews and panel discussions. I believe them when they say this because a) it makes sense that they would want to do it, and b) we've already seen it happen in the pages of Legion. Will they be able to pull it off? I'm glad to have the opportunity to find out.
Anyway I liked it okay. Some quibbles:
Not sure I liked the Wonder Woman / Batman / Alex Luthor scene. I can't decide if it was trite and hokey or not. I'm gonna have to think about it some more.
That big splash page at the end... "I know the world is in good hands." Yeah, I'm sure Catman and OMAC and Lobo will take care of the place real nice while you're away. I mean, I know that page is supposed to promote the comics DC's got coming out in the near future, but let's not be silly about it.
I don't have a problem with Superboy-Prime's behaviour. The guy didn't have anything like a normal life and he's completely lost perspective on everything. It all got out of control on him and now he's in a situation he never expected to be in and can't process. I hope the GL Corps can video-project some kind of psychiatrist into that box to talk to him. He's never going to come to his senses all by himself.
Also don't have a problem with how easily the Joker took down Alex Luthor. Alex showed himself to be a master strategist, an undistinguished tactician and a lousy soldier. He's just not that good in a fight and there's no way he'd be ready for someone like the Joker.
Posted by Stratum on :
Nope. Neither am I. I felt burned after Identity Crisis and I feel burned after this. Maybe over time things will be sorted out but as of right now, I really don't care.
I'm with Nightcrawler. DiDio is making some bad choices here and I'd really like to see him gone. It really seems he has no respect for the material.
Jamie
Posted by armsfalloffboy on :
But at least Identity Crisis didn't alter the basic background of the DCverse. I haven't read this yet, but if this is the ending, I'm very disappointed. They've been hyping this thing for over a year, and it doesn't sound like the series has achieved ANY of its objectives as stated above by Matthew, with the obvious exception of selling more comic books. It took me a while to stop buying Marvel's stupid crossovers, and as of now I won't buy any more of DC's either. So can someone explain what exactly was the point?
Posted by doublechinner on :
Matthew E brilliantly summarizes the real objectives of this really huge story. In the end, this was about 1) shifting the tone of the DC universe, especially for the Big 3, and 2) wiping out alot of the bad character and continuity decisions made AFTER the original COIE series. We seem to now have a DC universe that remembers Earth-2, remembers Kal-L, has a place for Power Girl, but DOESN'T have a place for a lot of the balderdash done to Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and others in the 1987 to 1994 period. I think that's a GREAT outcome, personally, and it takes us to where we should have been in 1986. For example, with any luck, we will now have a Superman who is a fine updating of his Golden Age and Silver Age predecessors, which is what would have happened if someone like Alan Moore had written Superman post-COIE.
What's amazing to me is the sheer scope of this story over the past year. I guess I will have to sit down and try and read it all to see if it hangs together. What started with what seemed like a power grab by Max Lord morphed into a huge story where much of the significant events (OMAC, Spectre, Rann-Thanagar) were really by-products of the central conflict, the effort of Alex Luthor and Superboy-Prime to create a new reality. This whole story had a depth and scope not unlike, say, the Second World War.
I am not at all disappointed that we are left with SB-Prime still around. I think he is fascinating because he illustrates how lucky the rest of the DC universe is that the "real" Superman turned out okay.
As for revealing ALL the intricacies of the New Earth backstory, do you think these guys are IDIOTS?!?! They WANT you to keep reading the comics to find out!
Posted by Spellbinder on :
I think the main thing that turns me off this whole event is the fact that there doesn't seem to be much respect for the characters involved. From the retconned rape and brutal death of Sue Dibny to the brutal butchering of countless characters to the twisting of characters. I get the point of what they were trying to achieve in the end, and in many ways I think they have. I just question the ways in which they got there.
Posted by Stratum on :
Nail on head, Spellbinder. Nail on head.
Jamie
Posted by Matthew E on :
And I like that they did it without restarting everything. For the most part, continuity has not been drastically changed. It's been loosened up, and there have been and will be some tweaks, but essentially we're still reading about the same world we read about last year.
I'm not happy Superboy-Prime's still alive. I regard him as an unwelcome loose end. However, I am happy that Superman and the rest didn't kill him. That would have undercut the entire series, if they had done that.
One seven-issue series, no matter how hyped, can't make the entire DC Universe perfect. And I think that's what a lot of people wanted. It's going to have to be done story by story in each of the individual titles over the next however many years. And obviously there are going to be both successes and failures. But I think that this whole enterprise puts DC in a good position to be addressing that future, and I'm glad they did it.
quote:These days, you never know who's going to die... and who's going to live.
Posted by Matthew E on :
quote:Originally posted by Spellbinder: I think the main thing that turns me off this whole event is the fact that there doesn't seem to be much respect for the characters involved. From the retconned rape and brutal death of Sue Dibny to the brutal butchering of countless characters to the twisting of characters. I get the point of what they were trying to achieve in the end, and in many ways I think they have. I just question the ways in which they got there.
There's some truth to that. But you could go through Infinite Crisis and all its satellites and find countless examples of times when they were quite respectful of lots of other characters. Including some that we never would have expected.
Posted by Spellbinder on :
True, but we won't see the characters they killed again. I would have liked to see them go out with more dignity. Even "third or fourth tier" characters have their fanbase.
Posted by Reboot on :
quote:Originally posted by Matthew E: And I like that they did it without restarting everything. For the most part, continuity has not been drastically changed. It's been loosened up, and there have been and will be some tweaks, but essentially we're still reading about the same world we read about last year.
Two words - Wonder Woman. If she was been around to found the JLA, her continuity is in tatters as of now.
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
I liked it. It excited me, thrilled me, awed me, and saddened me. I knew S-Prime wouldn't be removed from play. The WW/Bats moment seemed odd, as if their roles should have been reversed. Nightwing's fall was dulled by the fact I knew he survived OYL. But it hit all the notes an ending needed to hit.
We know DC isn't ever going to make drastic, sweeping changes. They have reordered their history, and that will never please everyone. We have to look at all these mini-series as separate stories told in a shared universe. On its own, this was a good story. Tied to IC and 52, well we're only in the middle arc.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
But the problem is, as 'Boot pointed out, that they are making drastic, sweeping changes, but only selectively. This is exactly the same kind of mistake they made with the first Crisis. Just as the stupid rebooting of Wonder Woman the first time, while trying to keep everything else as constant as possible, just managed to screw stuff up, it seems likely their selective rebootings this time around are just going to cause more problems.
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
True, I'd say that the biggest problems will be WW and Superman. Also with Matrix Supergirl out what happened to the whole "pocket universe saga"
The one hope is that that this time they've already decided what will be rebooted and have a book somewhere with an outline of how that effects everyone else in the DCU. This would prevent the "Hawkworld phenomenon" three years down the road.
Posted by Matthew E on :
Well, the big thing with continuity is this: it's only a problem if you let it be a problem. As a comic book writer/editor, you can just say, "Yes, it's inconsistent, but I'm not going to worry about it. I'm going to get on with telling good stories."
I think it's possible that having Wonder Woman as a retroactive founder of the League will help with those stories. I think it's possible that that extra Supergirl would just have been getting in the way to no purpose. I'm not convinced of either of those things, because I don't know enough about them; I was away from DC during that time. But it could be.
There are always going to be continuity problems. There have to be, because comic book characters aren't allowed to age naturally. So they're always going to be changing stuff. The only thing you can do about it is not think about it too hard; it's the price you pay for having this genre in this medium.
Posted by Nick Vinson on :
quote:Originally posted by DrakeB3004: -- It's such a cop-out that Superboy was nothing more than a psychotic madman running around ripping people in half. Aside from the pretty art, there wasn't much to the "climax". When they turned Hal into Parallax as the villain for Zero Hour, they did the same thing - making him mad just negates the dramatic power and inner conflict of having a formerly great hero go bad.
yeah but in Zero Hour you at least get the great Green Lanter/ Arrow moment of "Ollie." "Hal." Sprong!
apparently here, not so much.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
So what the heck did the title "Infinite Crisis" mean, other than being an homage to COIE? Is the point just that it supposedly affected the whole DCU?
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
It pissed an infinite number fans of off? It left an infinite number of questions?
Just flipped through a copy when I stopped at the store tonight. Regarding Alex. Do you think he may have survived and became the new Two-Face? Not up on the current Batman storyline so I don't know if the Two-Face there is really Dent or someone new.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
quote:Originally posted by Tamper Lad: The one hope is that that this time they've already decided what will be rebooted and have a book somewhere with an outline of how that effects everyone else in the DCU.
Isn't "52" supposed to have a "History of the DCU" backup feature or something? Presumably that would be the place to find out what's still canon and what's been changed.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Drake's right. The History back-up is probably what I'm most looking forward to in 52.
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
I think History of the DCU runs for two or three months. Then two page origins for prominent characters go for the rest of the year.
Posted by armsfalloffboy on :
Annnd so...AFO Boy was sucked into yet another DC money pit by a promise of explanation and explication of the current status of the DCverse...only now I've gotta buy it every week!
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
No disrespect intended...
People more interested in the back-ups (history or profiles) are too focused on continutity. I can appreciate wanting a shared, cohesive universe. But we're coming up on Supes 70th birthday, right? 70 yrs worth of adventures crammed into roughly a decade is going to cause problems.
I read Waid and Kitson's JLA: Year One. I liked Black Canary founding the JLA. Some people like WW in that role. Now, we both have stories to enjoy.
I'm more excited to see what the Question and Steel do in that missing year. You know Morrison will be wild, and Waid & Johns will give us those character moments we all just love.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by CJ Taylor: No disrespect intended...
None taken. For me, I'm more interested in the information than the story, in this case. I always see myself more like Oracle than any other character in DC or Marvel. I gather information on a wide variety of topics like some people collect stamps. It is just my way. So when there are series like this I just love it. Not so much for the continuity (although I will admit I am more interested in books when there is a cohesive continuity) as for the new info I'll be able to file away.
I don't know if any of you have ever heard of StrengthsFinder. It is one of those ever present Corporate "let's waste our employee's time" things. This one was actually kind of fun until they started shoving it down our throats constantly. The jist of it is that you should play to your strengths and not your weaknesses. Everyone takes a StrengthsFinder evaluation to rate their top five strengths. And those are your Signature Themes, the ones that should be played to in your work environment. So if you are not a Woo person (someone who loves the challenge of meeting new people and winning them over, my lowest, 34 out of 34) the you aren't the person to meet with the new customers. Anyway, my strongest theme, by a mile, is Input. Once I read the description you could have knocked me over with a feather. In all my years of taking these corporate 'tests' I never had one that turned out to be so accurate. One that I could look back and see affecting my whole life. Here is the description:
You are inquisitive. You collect things. You might collect information-words, facts, books, and quotations-or you might collect tangible objects such as butterflies, baseball cards, porcelain dolls, or sepia photographs. Whatever you collect, you collect it because it interests you. And yours is the kind of mind that finds so many things interesting. The world is exciting precisely because of its infinite variety and complexity. If you read a great deal, it is not necessarily to refine your theories but, rather, to add more information to your archives. If you like to travel, it is because each new location offers novel artifacts and facts. These can be acquired and then stored away. Why are they worth storing? At the time of storing it is often hard to say exactly when or why you might need them, but who knows when they might become useful? With all those possible uses in mind, you really don't feel comfortable throwing anything away. So you keep acquiring and compiling and filing stuff away. It's interesting. It keeps your mind fresh. And perhaps one day some of it will prove valuable.
Okay, maybe TMI. But there you go. That, in a large nutshell, is why I am anticipating the History of the DCU in 52.
[ May 05, 2006, 08:25 AM: Message edited by: Lightning Lad ]
Posted by Reboot on :
quote:Originally posted by Matthew E: I think a lot of you are missing the point. This Crisis wasn't primarily about fixing continuity problems or Changing Everything Around. I would say that these are the motivations for this Crisis:
4. (I might rank this one higher.) To tell a story that they thought was cool and to pay tribute to cool stories of the past.
3. To provide an opportunity for making changes in continuity, where appropriate; to loosen the grip of some of the silly continuity constraints that have applied over the past couple of decades; to thin out the herd of some of the characters they didn't want to use anymore.
2. To have a Big Event that sells a lot of comic books. Which is fair enough.
1. To revise the tone of the DC Universe - heroes more heroic, villains more villainous, more emphasis on secret identities, more differentiation between characters, all the stuff the DC creators been saying in chats and interviews and panel discussions. I believe them when they say this because a) it makes sense that they would want to do it, and b) we've already seen it happen in the pages of Legion. Will they be able to pull it off? I'm glad to have the opportunity to find out.
great post Matthew !!
i think you've summed up the whole 'event' really well !!
i think what we all have to remember is, comics are a BUSINESS and DC, MARVEL etc, produce them to make MONEY !!
not to always please everyone that been reading them for the last year, 5 years, 10 years, 20 years, 40 years etc !!
their goal is to create new fans and collectors, and 'try' to keep the older fans coming back for more also !!
and of course their not always gonna please EVERYONE, but DC as a whole have certainly had a great year in 'cross-selling' titles, before the lead up to INFINITE CRISIS i was buying and average of 10 - 12 titles per month !!
as of this weeks INFINITE CRISIS 7 i have bought an extra 55 DC issues !!
Countdown To Infinite Crisis x 2 [ reprint cover ] Prelude To Infinite Crisis x 1 [ even though i had all the issues ]
DC Special: TRODT x 4
Day Of Vengeance x 7 [ Special ] Rann Thanagar War x 8 [ Special + reprint cover ] The Omac Project x 7 [ Special ] Villains United x 8 [ Special + reprint cover ]
Infinite Crisis: Secret Files x 1 Infinite Crisis x 17 [ both George Perez & Jim Lee cover + reprinted covers ]
and of course i'll be buying the upcoming 52 with a further 52 issues !!
in my opinion DC have done an amazing job with this event !! and whether or not it lived up to my expectations, i've still had an enjoyable year or so, looking forward to each issue coming out, wondering whats gonna happen next etc ....
i certainly think it was money well spent on my part !!
some people may argue that i didn't have to buy all those issues but i felt i couldn't NOT buy them, as i didn't want to miss out and anything !!
i salute DC and i'm glad to have followed this whole event, well done and congratulations to all the creators involved in this event !!
Matthew.
Posted by Blacula on :
I've finally read Infinite Crisis #7 and I wish I'd never bothered.
As a big fan of both the original Crisis and Identity Crisis I'd have to call this 'story' my single biggest disappointment in comics in all the 15 years I've been reading them.
And my expectations weren't even that high. I just wanted a story that made sense, had a nice resolution, some cool memorable scenes along the way, and some consistent decent art. AND I GOT NONE OF THOSE OF THINGS! NONE!
The only other time I've felt like this after a DC series was after Zero Hour - when I completely quite comics for 3 years. If I wasn't already interested in some of the OYL comics (plus my beloved Vertigo) Infinite Crisis would probably have put me off the hobby for life!
Posted by Nick Vinson on :
Grrrr. DC make Nick MAD!
If this pre-solicit copy is true I think the reprint department has screwed up yet again. Newsarama article has the whole story.
Posted by Blacula on :
Here's a fairly funny comics blogger that had a reaction to Infinite Crisis similar to mine.
• Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman are very mad at each other! But then they make up. • Oa is moved from the center of the universe! But then it gets moved back. • Power Girl and Nightwing are stars in this story! But they don’t do anything. • The Rock of Eternity is destroyed permanently and forever! But then it gets rebuilt. • The Flashes sacrifice their lives to defeat Superboy Prime! But he comes back, and so do the Flashes. • Earth Two, the multiple earths and the multiverse return! For a few pages, then both vanish forever. • The original Superman returns! So he can go all psycho and then die in a disgusting bloodbath.
So sad but so true.
And here are some more funny reviews for the rest of the issues in the series. Its interesting to read them in order and see his hopes for a good story get crushed into smaller and smaller pieces -
Its a great site actually. I've been having a real chuckle for the last few hours reading some of his archives.
His style of writing and obsession with Silver Age frivolity is very reminiscent of a couple of posters on this Board too. Is it the homeblog for anyone here?
[ May 17, 2006, 02:59 AM: Message edited by: Blacula ]
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
You know what I remembered to mention that I never did before: I found it very heroic in the VU Special when the powerless Rocket Reds broke into the complex housing their armor and retaking it to battle the villains breaking out. Normal, unnamed guys in a far off country (to me) doing whats right...a very subtle but good moment by Gail Simone. I've always liked the Rocket Reds and I like how this has led to OYL them being in Green Lantern.
Posted by MLLASH on :
Finally read # 7.
Y'know, as much as I despise the character of The Joker, I found his usage here really good.
I'm in the "it was pretty good and an excellent opportunity to change some stuff around" camp. Looking forward to the updated histories of the JSA and JLA especially.
Posted by Pov on :
Ooh, that little nod to Smallville and the last panel CREEPED. ME. OUT.
"...and i've gotten out." Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
Great -- so there will be the inevitable followup story with crazy-mad Superboy (oh, joy...)
Posted by profh0011 on :
All that death & destruction... and one of the people who caused so much of it is STILL ALIVE and available for another sequel? AUGH!!! For THIS, they got rid of Earth-1 in the first place-- and on top of that, NEEDLESSLY killed off the "Pocket Universe" Superboy (way way back in LEGION)-- because some people didn't want there to be ANY Superboy???
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[tease]](graemlins/tease.gif)
![[ROTFLMAO]](graemlins/rotflmao.gif)
![[sob]](graemlins/sob.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Love]](graemlins/love.gif)
the first issue !!!![[LOL]](graemlins/lol.gif)
I just reread #1-5, and am rereading the rest now. I just had to.![[No]](graemlins/shake.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Lightning Lad]](graemlins/LightningLad.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
![[Shudder]](graemlins/shudder.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
I have both covers on my order but no way to buy the bloody things... ![[Elastic Lad]](graemlins/ElasticLad.gif)
![[Hmmm?]](graemlins/hmmm.gif)
He stays on E-2... that's why the E-1 Hawkman book is changing to HawkGIRL... ?![[Devil]](graemlins/Devil1.gif)
![[Evil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
![[I Dunno]](graemlins/urk.gif)