quote:Originally posted by Jerry: I'm also fine with mistakes being overlooked, at times. Not here, though. Countdown was advertised as being central to understanding where the DC Universe was going.
I'm asking that we recognize a mistake in something that's already so full of mistakes that it's out of continuity anyway for reasons that have nothing to do with the Legion. It was advertised as central, but it turned into a complete mess. It's not as if its only mistake was related to the Legion.
Registered: Apr 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Jerry: I'm also fine with mistakes being overlooked, at times. Not here, though. Countdown was advertised as being central to understanding where the DC Universe was going.
I'm asking that we recognize a mistake in something that's already so full of mistakes that it's out of continuity anyway for reasons that have nothing to do with the Legion. It was advertised as central, but it turned into a complete mess. It's not as if its only mistake was related to the Legion.
Ken has a point. Countdown had massive effects on Captain Atom, Jimmy Olsen and other characters that are now being essentially ignored. It might not even exist in continuity at all. It doesn't even tie into Final Crisis. *If* no one ever addresses it again, there is no evidence it exists in continuity just like there is not evidence it does not exist in continuity. It's simply too ambiguous.
That being said, I would LOVE if Paul came in and straitened it out.
As for the Pocket Universe--it simply does not exist. I know some of us might want to hang on to it, but if this is the original pre-Crisis Legion with Superboy, all logic says the Pocket Universe is now void. This is something that I think we can all assume will never be addressed either.
I suspect the Magnetic Kid question will be answered in the first few issues of the Legion series.
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
posted
Whatever you do with Countdown itself, the fact remains that Karate Kid needs some sort of explanation, since he was prominent in the Lightning Saga, and Duplicate Damsel's power upgrade has to be explained somehow, so her history needs to be straightened out. I don't think there's any escaping it, *if* you want to have a coherent Legion continuity.
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
Paul should handle it this way: three pages, 12 panels, part of a much better, more important story that requires a little backstory explanation.
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
posted
An explanation for KK in two panels:
Panel 1:
caption: Brainiac Five's Multi-Lab
Sun Boy: Hey Brainy! Cosmic Boy sent me down here to... hey, are you working on that cloning machine again?
Brainy: Yes. While I've managed to drastically increase the lifespan of the clones from a day when we created the Lyle Norg and Andrew Nolan clones, it still appears as though any clone we create will only have a lifespan of a few months, as did the Val Armorr clone we created recently.
Panel 2
Sun Boy: Well, keep at it. Anyway, Cosmic Boy wants to know [something relevant to the current plot]
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
Well, Countdown is explained for Luornu, in that Legion of Three Worlds scene--yes, a body of Luornu's died in Countdown, no, it wasn't her last one contrary to what Countdown implied.
Also, in other Legion connections, Superboy Prime's appearance in Countdown seems to not be in continuity either. I don't have the issues, but someone made this comment on tvtropes.org:
quote:Johns does two other more subtle discontinuity nods to Countdown in Final Crisis: Legion of Three Worlds. The first is when Superboy Prime discovers the historical record of himself in a museum and it mentions that the last anyone ever saw of him was in the Sinestro Corp Wars (which took place before Countdown). The other is at the end, where Superboy Prime has landed in his resurrected universe and it seems he's finally acheived his goal, but it turns out that all his loved ones have been reading the comics that he appeared in and are now terrified of him. This is revealed by his father showing him all the comics and trade paperbacks that that he appeared as a villain in...except Countdown.
And then again in the Adventure Comics Blackest Night tie-in, which is a sequel to Prime's Legion of Three Worlds epilogue. At one point, Black Lantern Alexander Luthor shows Prime visions of all the horrible things he's done...you guessed it, everything except for the things he did in Countdown.
[ May 08, 2010, 08:13 AM: Message edited by: Ken Arromdee ]
Registered: Apr 2010
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posted
Has anyone with DC said that Countdown isn't in continuity? My beef isn't with confused fans. It's with DC editorial. The new Legion creative team should address these issues rather than just ignore them. Some fans invested over $150 in the series. When Levitz takes over he should provide some explanation. It might be big of us to put it on a list and say it was a mistake so he doesn't have to. I don't think we should. We're letting DC off the hook too easily if we do.
[ May 08, 2010, 08:39 AM: Message edited by: Jerry ]
-------------------- No regrets, Coyote.
From: Missouri | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Jerry, I agree with you but with one major difference. I,too, feel DC owes us an explanation--I got taken by Countdown too and you can see that thread for me ripping it apart. But I don't want the explanation in Paul's LSH; I don't want him to be hampered by it and think it's unfair. He shouldn't be on the hook--I'd much rather it be in an annual, secret files or even an interview. Just not in the new series. Please no more continuity-fix driven stories! We want new ones!
So I'd rather another avenue for an explanation. But yeah, I'd like something too.
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
For me, it does fall to Paul. Whether it be in the main series, Adventure, a special or annual, or interview doesn't matter. Paul wrote the original death of Karate Kid. The Legion has been rebooted twice (at least) since he left the series. DC screwed loyal readers and buyers of both reboots at the end their respective runs. DC screwed loyal readers who picked up Countdown on the promise that it featured characters who were part of Levitz's "classic" Legion.
Yes, we need to move on. Yes, we want new stories. No, we don't want to get forever bogged down in fixing continuity glitches. Ultimately, though, many of us don't yet accept this new version as the team that Levitz once wrote. He has stated that it is. If that's his vision, it is his job to sell it to an audience that has some good reasons to be skeptical. I don't see how he can accomplish that while ignoring major elements of the story that reintroduced his team and brought back a character he killed off. Also, Paul is, and always has been, a DC company guy. I believe that he is the type of man who would feel a responsibility to make things right with readers who feel that they've been wronged by the company.
Again, part of it for me is the size of the issue. I don't need every little glitch to be fixed. Karate Kid's resurrection was a major part of the story line that introduced this version of the team. Levitz is capable of making an interesting story out of it.
[ May 08, 2010, 08:44 PM: Message edited by: Jerry ]
-------------------- No regrets, Coyote.
From: Missouri | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Hopefully it will just be a quick line or two so we can get down to the business of new stories and new adventures. I have waited many many years for this and I'm not really interested in a story about Karate Kid's resurrection since he is already dead again.
-------------------- Touch the magic...
From: Morganfield, KY | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I get that some people who read Countdown might want some sort of explanation for the craposity of it... but what about all the rest of us who bailed on that sinking ship very early on and haven't thought about it since?
Should our enjoyment of the new Legion book be hampered by a writer forced to undertake the herculean task of spinning gold from that bag of shit?
I don't think so. DC's writers and editors have clearly all moved on and pretended nearly everything to do with that mess never happened. And most readers are perfectly happy for them to continue to do so. I don't think we (or the new writers who didn't have anything to do with that turd) should be beholden to those who need some sort of explanation for every little detail in that clusterf--- of a book that doesn't match the continuity they remember.
I don't even see what needs explaining from it -
* Karate Kid was brought back to life in an as-yet untold story. Shortly afterward, he tragically died again. * In another as-yet untold story, Duo Damsel gained the ability to create multiple copies of herself. One of those bodies went back in time and died.
The end. What else needs explaining? And do those stories need explaining anyway? The Legion have loads of unexplained stories in their history (see: Mordru and the Legion, First Meeting of).
From: Australia | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
Wow. Comic fans really have become jaded by all the death in comic books. Bring back a major character. Kill him off. No explanation needed. Fair enough. I stand corrected.
-------------------- No regrets, Coyote.
From: Missouri | Registered: Oct 2003
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