posted
anyone on here in grad school, finished with it, or familiar with the degree-processes, especially as it relates to artists?
I'm in the MFA program at UCLA in playwriting. I originally entered the program because the faculty had assured me: #1) I was fully-funded, and #2) all my myriad interests across discipline (history, cultural studies) and medium (directing, film-making, screenwriting, non-fiction writing, comics) would be supported and encouraged. I chose UCLA over Chicago Art Institute because of these stipulations. Neither stipulation held up over the 1st year (the funds to support students 'dried up' suddenly the week before classes began, and my department chair constantly questions and demeans the courses I take in other departments, "but why do you need to take a stage directing class?" or "i don't think that non-fiction writing class in Afro-American studies is appropriate"). Even worse, entering the 2nd year (of a 2 1/2 year program), my faculty (a motley crew of 3 tenured professors, 2 of whom are bitter and, at best, erratic) have moved to extreme contentiousness, demanding complete rewrites of all my work (which they then fail to read or even acknowledge they've received) and removing me from the production schedule. This complicates my capacity to finish on-time, as the production classes are required to obtain the MFA.
The faculty have also asked me 3 times to transfer to the M.A. program in Theater.
What's the difference?
An MFA is a terminal degree, allowing access to teaching jobs at university level (which tend to pay better and have more resources to continue working on art). An MA, which has limited use on its own, is the entry point for a PhD - which in this case would take about 2 years longer to obtain than the MFA. This option gives me greater access to research resources (so I can travel to 'study'), but a PhD makes me a much-less desirable candidate for art fellowships (as they bias for the 'professional' MFA over the 'academic' PhD).
On the side of staying at UCLA in the School of TV, Film, Theater & Animation: #1) I was awarded a fellowship -covering tuition & small monthly allowance for the academic year - from the UCLA Chancellor's Office of Community Partnerships to produce a comic book with AIDS Project LA about a gay Latino guy dealing with HIV-infection, and #2) if I stay in the School of Theater for the MA (rather than switching departments completely), none of the classes already taken are wasted.
I have to make a decision in a few days. Anyone care to weigh in?
From: Lauderhill, FL | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
Andy, that seems like a tough decision. I don't know if I can offer advice, but I can tell about my situation.
I graduated from UCONN with a BA two years ago, and immediately went to grad school for my MA in History (my undergrad major). I originally did, and still do, want to get my Ph. D., and thought it'd be a great place to start.
It proved to be too much too soon for me, and I was just too burnt out on going to school strait through. I've recently gone to part-time status and gotten a full-time job, b/c basically, I'm tired of having no money and I'm burnt out on classes (and a lot of the ones being offered are just not the time periods that I want). I love academia, and I want my Ph. D. (it's kinda a dream of mine), but I needed a break and to try something a bit different.
So...sorry no advice . But it does seem like you've got some options and that you really have paved the way for yourself to have a good deal of choice in the matter. Good luck on what you decide!
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
posted
Andy, I'd say you're better off in a department that wants you there rather than one that doesn't. That's generally a lot more important than the specific degree that you're getting, because that will affect the sort of recommendations, long-term professional connections, etc., that you'll be able to make.
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
Sounds like you've had some bum experiences at grad school, Andy. I understand what you're going through, particulaly with respect to finances.
When I entered the University of Missouri-Kansas City in '94, I did so with the understanding that the work study program would largely pay for my education. It turned out that the amount listed on the form was the maximum potential amount a student could earn (though how one earned that amount was never explained to me -- particularly since I was restricted to working 15 hours a week). I had to take a second job just to stay in school and meet my basic living expenses.
A year or so later, I almost took out a student loan, but was spared that particular form of financial slavery by being asked to become a research assistant. This form of indentured servitude was frequently demeaning and boring (cataloguing medieval medical texts was hardly my forte), but it got through grad school. I earned my M.A. in English in '96.
As to the grad school experience itself, my goals were admittedly a little different. Writing comics was always foremost among my goals, and I thought that studying screenwriting would be a way to learn skills that could be transfered to that field. So I enrolled in UMKC, the only grad school that offered screenwriting in my area. (For personal reasons, I didn't want to move too far from home.)
It was never an easy fit, but I did do a lot of writing and received valuable feedback from both instructors and students. Most of the instructors I dealt with were professional, passionate about their fields, and eager to help me. None ever tried to convince to switch majors or take courses I didn't want. In fact, they were very accommodating when I sought to replace a lit requirement with a block of related Arthurian courses. (The Knights of the Round Table were the first super-heroes, you know.)
So, I'm sorry you've had what sounds like bad experiences at UCLA. My only advice would be to decide what your own personal goals are and seek out the school that you think will best help you get there. (For me, the degree was secondary to to the knowledge and experience I sought.) Don't be afraid to ask instructors for advice; most (of the ones I knew, at least) appreciate students who show an interest in learning, particularly in their fields of interest.
Good luck.
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
THANKS GUYS! I'm glad to hear the stories...i swear grad school has the weird dual effect of trying to infantilize you and make you LOCO ... takes me a second (or encountering a real crazy homeless person ) to snap out of it
class today SUCKED ... but not as badly as it could have! i'm not with the same odious gossipping closeted queen i was with all last year ... i've chosen to ignore his angry rants at me this quarter (he showed up 2 hours late to a meeting on friday afternoon, as per usual, and just started yelling at me in front of the entire staff of the American Indian Studies Center - where i used to work -- good times, good times)
i do agree that the only feasible way for me to finish ANY degree is to find a more welcoming program
the MA program in Theater is one of those interdisciplinary broad-range things that covers any kind of theatricality or performativity (drama, global theater, identity performance, ANYTHING) ... i've already done a lot of research & travelled tons to places that use public altars as part of their daily lives (Haiti, Viet Nam, Thailand, Cambodia -- want to add Brazil on that list), and much of my theater-writing has involved altars somehow ... so i'd end up doing some kind of disseration on Personal Use of Public Altars in Brazil, Haiti and Southeast Asia -- do a year of travelling -- some more *RESEARCH!!!*-- and then write a year ... i meet with the chair of the program tomorrow (and i'm keeping my fingers crossed)
so i'd be able to make a PhD interesting for me (and write about something i want to write about), as well as still produce some of the comic book, film scripts, plays, and non-fiction essays that have been clamoring about in the files of work trying to get born
i'd have to cut some of my interest in going into tv/film immediately -- and that siren song is awful hard to ignore ... EVERYONE at my school is trying to 'break in' and they're all getting ready for whatever race & obstacle they anticipate ... it's hard to disconnect from it and be another kind of artist
(also my brother works in tv and he's been anticipating my partnership in a production company shortly -- he he he)
but what you all said makes a lot of sense -- the degree is only worth it if you get something out of it -- a far less-messy process when the teachers welcome you (rather than mob you with burning stakes or expect you to take the trash out)
this evening, on the bus returning home, a homeless girl -- probably very close in age to me and clearly very new to homelessness (no tears in clean clothes, still trying to bathe) -- started having a conversation with the floor, because, you know, NO ONE speaks to the homeless ... so on a growingly crowded bus, this blonde thick white girl - looking decent in her clothes - just erupts in her weird low-key mania, probably the result of isolation ... on the other side of me, a couple mexican guys - also close in age - complain about her in spanish and discuss her insanity and their horrible 15 hour/day labor ... she tries to connect with them, but they can't speak english
and i thought - being stuck between an unwelcoming MFA program and trying to get into a potentially better PhD program at UCLA is preferable than living their weeks, even though i'm broke and have a-hole teachers on my case ... i can handle poverty and i can out-match anyone in sheer rage, so there's not really much for me to be worried about in school -- just make the change-over to the PhD if i'm not put back on the production schedule
i have a meeting with my faculty wednesday evening ... the second they step at me wrong, i've decided it's okay for me to unleash every drop of fury i've swallowed trying to respect their positions ... ahhhh, i can see the ravens gathering now...
posted
THANKS we're supposed to start mediation between me and the faculty next week actually sigh ... and i'm just going to transfer AWAY from them as my solution and get a doctorate there are worse things
From: Lauderhill, FL | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
RESULTS OF FACULTY MEETING: They are assholes. It began with a critical and honest session giving me notes on my plays. It was going fine. I had a moment to respond (thanking them for the feedback). THEN the ()#*Y$$*#(*&#!@% 'PERSON' in charge of the MFA in playwriting starting explaining how I was wasting her time if this was my result. I asked her why she would say that. She said my other professor explained he gave these notes to me already, and didn't believe me when I showed her PAGES of his 'notes' to me (consisting primarily of 'there's something missing... just something' for PAGES). She was going to continue and I stopped her and told her I was going to the MA/PhD. When she kept trying to get digs in-- I told her bluntly I was not her student; I had moved on, and wanted to discuss next steps for my transfer. As the difficult conversation kept going (I got happier; she got angrier at that), I did have to admit I was sorry that I would not experience her dramaturgy since I was told that she was a much better dramaturg than a writer; and I had read her work. So that part is over -- AND I AM SO HAPPY THAT I NEVER HAVE TO DEAL WITH THOSE PIECES OF CRAP AGAIN!!! Now I just have to set up some courses for the MA program and start checking into sticking around for a PhD (if I want to; I will probably just want to move back to New York where people are normal and boys are hot).
THANKS EVERYONE FOR YOUR FEEDBACK -- and tell everyone you know to avoid UCLA playwriting like it's the Pain Plague. It is.
From: Lauderhill, FL | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
My question regarding teaching is, if it's not a priority for you in the future, why are you subjecting yourself to this? Sometimes you have to think outside the box, and in this case, I have to wonder if school is the right place for you. What are your reasons for being in grad school in the first place?
-------------------- White. A blank page or canvas. His favorite. So... many... possibilities.
From: Birmingham, AL | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by 235 - Andy S: He Who Wanders - do you teach?
No. I was a student assistant in a writing workshop and also a tutor. What I learned from those experiences is that I enjoyed working one-on-one with students than in a classroom.
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
my original goal was to use the degree as a writing colony -- and having a certain amount of products at the end of my UCLA stay
so i've got to get back on track and get a handle on these things
so far i have: two different short (30-45 min) plays in decent shape; a finished short screenplay for a small film that i may cobble together with my brother; some research papers on altars, cultural performance & adaptations across culture/medium; a musical in a VERY draft form; early draft/outline of a non-fiction book about an American-born War Baby's (me) 1st meeting family in Viet Nam and then living in Southeast Asia today as a fully bendable gay man; and a decently-shaped draft of a full-length play
i wanted to get the full-length play refined, have a draft of another, get a handle on the musical, get the Viet Nam book done, finish at least 1 full-length screenplay and have a draft on another at the end
i will also get a comic book out of this (i have a fellowship to produce one)
when i looked at my goals: I realized i didn't need the MFA & its incumbent misery for that ... grad school is just a way of retooling my life for writing and getting away from a lot of the distractions of previous living modes ... the MA achieves that just as well (for my particular needs)
make sense?
after doing this time in LA/at UCLA and having a fellowship that pays for this year, i'm definitely picking up a Masters degree on my way out
PhD? that's a whole other can of worms
[ October 07, 2004, 04:07 PM: Message edited by: 235 - Andy S ]
From: Lauderhill, FL | Registered: Aug 2004
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. But it does seem like you've got some options and that you really have paved the way for yourself to have a good deal of choice in the matter. Good luck on what you decide!
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