posted
Just to keep some momentum going (I’ll take a few day break before the next one), Here’s Part II! This is something I hope to start a series of, so, er, I hope no one goes and steals my thunder or something and starts another one of these! Thanks!
A quick word -- So…as the history of the LSH progressed, members kept being introduced, especially in the early years. If you think about it though, the introduction of each new member must have had social consequences for the group as a whole—especially as seen in relation to other events occurring at that time both in terms of Legionnaire-related things (re: Death of Lightning Lad) or social things (re: Jo and Tinya start going out). Having historical hindsight is also beneficial, as we know later how things turned out and can make some connections that might not be self-evident early on. Of course, what the writer intended when he wrote something could by and large be entirely inconsequential. Who cares if they meant for Luornu and Tinya to be good friends and maybe Vi feel a little left out? It sure might seem like that with 40 years of retrospect and character development!
Colossal Boy, Chameleon Boy and Invisible Kid
There has always been a little debate on if Lyle joined when Cham and Gim did, but even if he didn’t, he joined so quick after, that I don’t think it really matters to include him in here. With the joining of these three, I can see the Legion dynamic change once more.
- I don’t think enough time had passed for Tinya and Lu to feel like these were ‘newbies’ and they had authority over them though. Of course, that isn’t to say that on a bad day one of them might feel that way, I just don’t think they’d want to hear it from a founder if they thought that.
- Gym joining with a girlfriend, Gigi, Cham being Durlan and Lyle not showing that type of attraction to girls, would quickly squash any resemblances of a Legionnaire/Legionnaire romance early on. That is of course, if you subscribe to the Lyle is gay theory, which I do. If not, Lyle still never was shown to be fraternizing with the ladies in that manner much. Imra and Garth, in my mind, were already sure that the other one was for them, and this is still early enough that Cos probably spent the majority of his time focusing on Legion issues.
- I think Imra’s role as Ice-Queen would continue to grow, but very slowly. I think Gim, Cham and Lyle would not fear Tinya and Lu as a clique, but I think they’d recognize that the two were the in-crowd. On that same token, I think Tinya and Lu would get along fine with the three new members easily. Later on though, would be when I think Tinya would become friendlier with Lyle and Cham, which I believe she most likely did when the Espionage Squad was formed.
- I can see Gym and Gigi’s relationship deteriorating before Gym’s eyes, as he realized he’d be around ultra cute girls like Tinya and Luornu. I can also see him, who had always shown respect for a strong-willed woman like Gigi, admiring Imra as equally as Cos and Garth. I can also see Cham and Lyle doing that.
- Cham and Gym were quick friends, and remained best friends, but also Lyle and Cham I can see as easy best friends. Cham is one of those characters that always appeared to be friends with everyone but part of no unique ‘clique’ or group. He was widely respected though, and I think his early years, mission by mission, helped establish that.
- I think all three founders would continue to get along great with all the others, and there would be NO founder/non-founder split. The founders were all just best friends, but there was no difference seen on either side between them and the others. Even Imra and Lu/Tinya were all friendly, it was that the two girls started to wonder why Imra remained so distant after all that time.
Also, Brainy and Supergirl appeared soon after, but I think there was enough time, once more, that the social structure shifted slightly when these three joined. All in all, I see long-lasting friendships and relationships being established all around, and there really not being any two people who would not consider the other friend. For instance, I don’t see Gym and Lyle being very close, but the mutual respect was there. The only minor rift to develop, which was slight even in retrospect, may have been Imra being distant from the others, which the girls may have taken the wrong way.
Please get into it in detail! Hope I’m not taking up too much room in this forum with these!
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
I'm loving these threads, Cobie... but they do deserve a little time for consideration.
Some quick thoughts...
1). Imra and Gim would have that Science Police background in common... wouldn't she look up to someone who'd actually made it to training? She never seemed to... (perhaps not reflecting too well on Gim Allon, that).
2). I'm having a little 'boot' confusion... Lyle *did* invent things and get patents for them in both boots, didn't he? That means he'd have some money... and a sense of responsibility that other Legionnaires might not have developed yet. A reason he might be seen as a bit of a loner in these early months.
Saturn Girl's training as a telepath and her intelligence would make a Lyle/Imra friendship likely.
3). Cosmic Boy might seek at least one of these three out to befriend, if Garth and Imra are wrapped up in each other. (Remember the Cos/Garth 'best friend' status was *not* a facet of the ADVENTURE Legion). Everybody liked Cham, I'd agree-- who would Cos buddy up with between Gim and Lyle? I don't remember any particular scenes shared by Cos, Lyle, or Gim...
4). Chameleon Boy's status as the first non-humanoid member is unique. It wasn't revealed that what we'd seen from his joining wasn't his 'natural' visage. What does that say about either *his* fears or the attitudes/reactions of the other Legionnaires? 'Everybody likes Chameleon Boy'... overcompensation?
5). It's telling that there were no romances between the 'in-crowd of two' and the 'three caballeros' who joined a few months after they did. I'd forgotten that Gigi was written in as Gim's girlfriend... Interesting that Gim joined with a Durlan and later married one.
From: Knoxville, TN | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: Colossal Boy, Chameleon Boy and Invisible Kid
There has always been a little debate on if Lyle joined when Cham and Gim did, but even if he didn’t, he joined so quick after, that I don’t think it really matters to include him in here. With the joining of these three, I can see the Legion dynamic change once more.
This is probably because most, if not all, Legion induction dates are based on the Mayfair Sourcebook, the 2995 edition. In the time line they list exact dates for when each member joined.
From: Utah | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
So these three made the membership eight. This is the point where their begins to be heirarchy to the organization.
At this point it'd be the founders and everyone else. There is still a "one for all" type vibe because in a group of eight it is still possible for everyone to be heard in a team meeting type situation.
However at this point the leader Cos must begin to make an effort to ensure the less forceful personalities on the team I'm thinking Lu and Lyle at this point are heard at meetings at such.
At the same time friendships between individual team members are becoming more evident based on individuals' interests. I'm thinking of girls doing girl things and the more physical guys doing workouts or sports and such.
From a real world practical point of view Cos not being buddy/buddy with any of the guys would make sense because he is spending more and more time promoting unity and the all-for-one stuff at this point. He's gotta appear totally fair and impartial in an ever increasing number of little annoying disputes that would be sure to pop up off panel.
I think that Imra's introvert tendencies might start to be seen here. Though the fact that there are only three girls and Cos' struggle to maintain the all for one decorum would encourage her to participate when she wouldn't otherwise.
From: Canada | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
The dates can all be found here in the Encyclopedia Galactica for further references as Cobie's series progresses.
From: Utah | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I can see Lyle as being with Cham in the "not really in a particular clique but liked by everyone" situation.
He was, after all, eventually leader of the LSH and A.) was respected by Ultra Boy enough that Jo didn't beat his ass when Lyle slugged him, and B.) wasn't brought up on charges for attacking a teammate.
posted
Yeah, I definately think that with each mission, Lyle proved himself time and time again and continued to earn valued respect. I think he would be a major factor in proving the theory that its not the powers that make the Legionnaire, but the Legionnaire themselves. I think it would be a little while before most of the Legion was convinced of his ability as a leader, but this wouldn't be a process of having to convince anyone, just people realizing it. More on that as it goes to that point.
I too think that Cos was probably tremendously wrapped up with being the first leader and ceremonial head of the Legion that he may not have developed deep friendships with people early on, although he was friendly with everyone. For example, I always had the sense that he had a strong mutually respectful friendship with Tinya, but it wasn't that they were 'best' friends.
Since we know that one day relatively soon Imra would become leader, it would make sense that the others might begin going to Imra for lesser problems that they'd be afraid to approach Cos with, so they wouldn't bother them. I can also see Garth encouraging this, not understanding at first any hesitation of the others to approach Imra. Her quick wit to fix problems early on might actually work against her in that it would slowly cement her later role as Ice Queen.
But Tromium brought up a good point in the other thread that she was Lu's maid of honor--which leads me to think that above all, even though many of the girls and some guys thought her an ice queen, many outright (and some secretly) admired her determination and never-hesitating attitude. I can see this especially of Colossal Boy--whose scenes with Imra always led me to believe he had tremendous respect for her (I'm talking later, so I could be wrong in that it was not apparent yet--it would have had to grow slowly).
You guys rawk for participating! The threads should be more interesting as they go, but there's still more to flesh out I bet for both of the current two!
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
In retrospect, it's an odd group. Gim & Lyle were both from Earth, but I don't recall that they were ever great friends or close because of it. Gim & Cham became close friends later; in the post-boot, it was Lyle & Cham.
Who started the Espionage Squad? (I'd guess Lyle did; if he was "leadership material" he might have been the more proactive one.) Lyle and Cham were both members - they would have shared some affinity through that.
I wonder if there was some suspicion about the Espionage Squad members - people tend to question spies, even when they're on the same side. So it's surprising that Lyle and Cham weren't more buddy buddy from the start.
Just as people were later shown to be nervous around Saturn Girl (or Titanians in general) and highly suspicious of Durlans, I would think Saturn Girl and Cham would have had something in common; Invisible Kid, as one who you never know if he's there or not, might have been regarded with similar suspicion, whether by teammates or the population in general. However, since Saturn Girl was well-established as a founding member, she might not have felt the need to seek a particular friendship with Cham and/or Invisible Kid.
posted
I think Tinya in particular would be pleased by the fact that the first two members after the founders were girls, that they were adept enough and bright enough to be chosen first. Not that she'd rub that in anyone's face, just feel good about it. When she sees people like Gim and Cham join, she feels like she's on the right team. They're getting really powerful now. These guys seem good at what they do, too. Tinya and Lyle were shown as friends, based on the fact that their powers are similar. In fact, the Espionage Squad has it's beginnings right away. The stealthier Legionnaires begin to bond.
Meanwhile Lu is probably feeling less adequate as more members join. However, she keeps her chin up and embraces everyone. Of course they love her.
I'm sure each of the founders is very happy with these new arrivals. The diversity is increasing and the power levels are increasing. Brande's vision is coming together. Also, haven't they rejected scores of applicants by now?
I'm glad Cham's alien-ness was mentioned. He's the poster boy for non-white humanoids living amongs white humanoids.
posted
Dean, good point--by now, the Legion had rejected a good amount of applicants. This, I'm sure, helped create a feeling that they were making progress, the 'best of the best' and more of a part of something, so that they all felt a connection on some level.
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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Cham & Gim are the "buddies" of the Legion IMO. If they added anything to the Legion was dynamics. Yeah Lightning Lad certainly had the dazzling lightning but we get two characters with very overt physical powers. One can become a giant and the other whatever he wants.
I do miss this Cham who was an early member and would pull rank on most anyone. Besides Brainy Cham may have been the most dominating personality. What happened to Cham?
Gim on the other hand is doing good in the latest version.
My addition to this thread? Gim and Cham added/changed the physical dynamics. Made things more interesting for sure.
From: Tampa | Registered: Mar 2004
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Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
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From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
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