posted
And the corollary to EDE's point is at the same time the adults will realize that their kids aren't anarchists bent on destroying all the good things that they've provided.
quote:Originally posted by Spellbinder: TomMaryKeith: The Bierbaums and Giffen, who were behind the Five Year Gap Legion, just prior to the initial reboot.
Or Too Much Killing... or was that Torture, Mutilate, Kill?
-------------------- "Anytime a good book like this is cancelled, I hope another Teen Titan is murdered." --Cobalt
"Anytime an awesome book like S6 is cancelled, I hope EVERY Titan is murdered." --Me
From: Up a Gumtree | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
posted
I love it when my point's have corllaries! It makes me feel so Spinozistic!
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Tromium: I enjoyed the first 7 issues of DnA's Legion relaunch waaaay more than the first 7 issues of WaK's reboot.
Thank you; that sums it up better than I said previously.
I'm not saying I don't like WaK; just that it pales to DnA, at least in their heyday (Lost 1 to Legion 14-ish). To be fair, early WaK should be compared to early DnA; not late DnA.
Comparing the energy of LLost 1-7 vs WaK 1-7, DnA certainly hold the high ground.
EDE, mixing Archie in doesn't deflate the great things of the DnA era.
As a fan of TMK, I CAN appreciate taking the long way to build a story; and I concede by next year I may do another about-face. BUT right now; the thrill is gone... already... after only 1/2 a year.
DnA's magic drew me back to LSH fandom; if I were just coming back in, I doubt I'd be hanging around for the new book.
WaK are doing okay; I still like the book, but I'm not luvin it.
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada | Registered: Dec 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Kent Shakespeare: I'm not saying I don't like WaK; just that it pales to DnA, at least in their heyday (Lost 1 to Legion 14-ish). To be fair, early WaK should be compared to early DnA; not late DnA.
I agree with the first sentence totally; that stretch (apart from some of the weaker Legion Worlds stories) was right up there with the very best Legion runs EVER.
However, it's far more apt to compare WaK with late DnA, because the latter is the Legion we were stuck with. And I, for one, was rapidly growing to hate it. Comparing early DnA with the latter half of the series is like night and day in its quality.
I'm mostly loving Waid's take on the Legion, although it really is moving too slowly at this point. It's not as bad as Hudlin's Black Panther (now *there's* a far more apt candidate for Reboot's tomato analogy), but there's plenty of room for improvement.
Whereas the series started with a pair of strong "done-in-one" stories, lately it's been waffling between wanting to tell single-issue tales and the year-long meta-arc that Waid's been building to...#s 4 and esp. 6 are the main offenders in this regard. Perhaps it was just a bridging factor to what appears to be a more focused, classical arc story structure for the second half of year one.
-------------------- -- Still here to help.
From: ATL, fool!!! WHAT!!! | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
The new Legion series thru the first seven issues has been like a big Penguin ... it looks pretty and you want it to fly, but it doesn't look like it will ever get off the ground.
The DC books that are currently outselling the Legion (and there are a few of them) are faster paced and each have a story satisfyingly contained within the issue. The extra pages in Legion should have allowed much more development than what we've seen so far. The background stories of Tinya, Triad, and introduction of Projectra and T-Wolf was too much, too soon and has dragged down the momentum. Aside from the side trips to Lallor, the outer rim, and last issue to Colu, the majority of the stories (200+ pages) have been focused around Legion HQ or in flashback origins. Let's see the universe and in real time!
-------------------- "My dance card was getting fuller than a contestant's at a Jandan shurg-off." - Exnihil, The Lost Klordny
From: Frederick, MD | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I loved the DnA stuff (of course, I'm biased), from Legion of the Damned on through at least Legion 24, and I'm glad to see others enjoyed it as well. But I always thought they were working under the handicap of a half-hearted reboot, that in many ways was neither here nor there. The reboot didn't get as clean of a start as they deserved (renumbering so new readers could jump on), and I don't think any of the early reboot stuff lived up to the promise of the zero issues.
The Legion had a very proud and distinguished 25 year history, until Byrne, Carlin, et. all felt the need not only to reboot Superman, but jack with Superboy, undermining everything. They didn't even allow them to keep the pocket universe. It seems from that point, we had 20 YEARS of attempted patches, fixes, apologies, retcons, and whatnot. No wonder the Legion lost so much ground -- it was impossible for them to ever gain momentum because they were always trying to better fix or replace all they had lost. Even the reboot seemed (to me) unable to get completely out from under the shadow of trying to fix things.
The threeboot, to me, seeems finally like a real fresh start (assuming Infinite Crisis doesn't re-mire it in a bunch of new nonsense). I love it, I love the pace, and I am in no hurry to get anywhere...I'm just enjoing the new universe and rediscovering the characters.
Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Tromium: I enjoyed the first 7 issues of DnA's Legion relaunch waaaay more than the first 7 issues of WaK's reboot.
Waid seems to have forgotten that scintillating action, adventure and romance was the bedrock of the Legion's historical success. The travesty that was the TMK era is proof enough that socio-political themes do not constitute the right formula for this book. I really think they've started off on the left foot, especially with adults vs. kids premise. The idea of a Legion civil war is fine and dandy, but it should have been wrapped up in six issues rather than becoming one of the central threads of the series. I keep wondering when the "real" Legion stories will begin.
That said, it was Dan Didio's mandate to Waid to re-reboot the franchise, so there was probably *zero* chance of avoiding radical change, particularly in light of the universe-altering events to be wrought by Infinite Crisis. If it hadn't been rebooted by WaK, TPTB would have handed the job to another team. Judging by her tepid and pointless FNBR arc last year, a revamp done by Simone (who was briefly slated as writer before Waid stepped back in) could very well have sunk the ship. At least Waid is keeping it afloat.
You got it Trom. As I've stated I'm a fan. I've accepted this current Legion. But starting on the wrong foot as you've said nails it on the head. Don't think the pace or kids vs. adults thing was the wisest decision.
The pace does remind me of the TMK run and that is a good thing in my eyes. It's a good story being slowy woven but my favorite issue is the Terror Firma issue. And the cover for #11. As you say needs a bit more action, romance, and adventure.
And I think they will get there. For all we know the pace may be slow because of that darn Infinity Crisis! Damn 21st century still affecting teh superior Legion of Super Heroes! Eat it Didio!
From: Tampa | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
posted
I find the comparison of the first seven issues of this run to DnA's first seven issues to be somewhat problematic. Their first two stories, "Legon of the Damned" and "Widening Rifts" were all about deconstructing an existing Legion status quo, while Waid's have been about setting up a new status quo. It's not an easy comparison to make. Similarly, comparing Waid's first seven issues to "Legion Lost" seems problematic as well, since the latter was a series with a set number of issues, which partially masked the fact that it was relatively slow-paced and dwelt too much on items irrelevant to the main storyline.
If you compare Waid's new series to the early issues of the Legion, in which DnA are building up their own new status quo, however, I believe Waid blows DnA out of the water. Just flipping through #7, I find it incredibly cringe-worthy. There's a Bat-villain spouting out one of the most absurd plots in Legion history, couched in some of the worst pseudo-science ever. There's Ultra Boy, reduced to the point where he can't even understand simple English sentences. There's Kinetix changed into this creature that can't even formulate simple English sentences. There's giant Vi getting pummelled by a terrorform.
Ultimately, I suppose, it's just down to preferences, but, whatever issues I have with certain things in Waid's run, I find it incredibly pleasing in comparison to the previous series.
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I gotta disagree EDE. I was very excited about the first 7 issues of the last series. First time I was excited about the Legion in over a decade. So for me atleast it was a hilight. And I don't see much of a difference between your UB comparison and this UB.
But I compare the first seven issues of this series to the v4 TMK series personally. Or "somehwere in between" which may be what they are going for???
From: Tampa | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
The other, unavoidable analogy is to the 1994 reboot, which Waid co-plotted and co-wrote the first year. Completely ignoring the 'Legionnaires' series, the first 7 months of the postboot LSH brought us the following developments:
- Brande assassination thwarted; Legion founded - About 15 additional Legionnaires inducted by the U.P. draft - The LSH battles Tangleweb and Mano - Kid Quantum I is killed - Live Wire is forced to resign; Workforce introduced - The Legion stops a prisoner riot on "Planet Hell" - First inklings of the Chu conspiracy and White Triangle threat - Budding romances/crushes: Garth/Imra; Jo/Tinya; Brainy/Laurel; Gim/Zoe
I concede that the WaK characterizations are largely superior (though less than half of the 3boot members are fully realized characters at this stage), and the 2boot artwork suffers badly in comparison to Barry's.
BUT, compare the meaty and action-filled 2boot stories that propelled the Legion inexorably towards their final and explosive clash with the White Triangle at the end of Year One to the meandering 3boot stories that promise to lead to insterstellar war by issue #12. Truth is, I can barely recall what's happening from month to month. Issue #5 was a satisfying classic adventure and the destruction of Orando in issue #6 was a pretty good show, too. But otherwise I'm so bored by the protracted exposition and build-up, and so frustrated by the undeveloped and distrustful relationships among team members, I'm already losing track.
I KNOW that Waid and Kitson are better storytellers than this, and that's what's bugging me most.
posted
By the time we got the the seventh issue of DnA's run on The Legion, I was dreading each issue. I'd only sorta liked Legion Lost (couldn't help feeling like it was an amped up redux of "A Cold and Lonely Corner of Hell") and had hated "Legion of the Damned." (I did enjoy Legion Worlds, but I realize now that it was because, for those six issues, DnA focused more on character than story and gave significant panel time to characters who hadn't been seen much in previous years.) When we got to The Legion, story became the tyrant of the book, cruelly oppressing characterization. For three years, the Legion went from one world-threatening crisis to the next with almost no break. Subplots piled up with no resolution in sight. And the main plotlines had endings so weak, I was left wondering why I was bothering.
Also, while Batista's art was a hugely refreshing change from Coipel's "dirty" style, I ultimately found his depictions of the Legionnaires rather babyish.
Waid and Kitson, by contrast, are producing a book that provides suspense, humor, character, story, and some of the best art to ever grace a Legion book. I know a lot of you have been dismayed by the colors, but I really enjoy the muted feel they give to the Legion's world. It seems like the creators' way of evoking the blandness of the world that the Legion finds itself in.
Anyway, long story short is that I'm loving the new series, far more than the initial post-Zero-Hour reboot stuff or the various DnA periods. And I know a ton of people who have started reading the Legion for the first time with this book. I think DC's got a big winner on their hands. Now they just need to keep promoting the hell out of it.
From: Los Angeles, CA | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I too am enjoying the new series, and not just because it isn't working with the old continuity.
I will go ahead and give DnA Legion of the Damned and Legion Lost. Those had some decent characterization. But, by the time they started Legion, the narration by the characters was gone. All that was left was a shell of action that I found unconvincing by issue #3.
In contrast Waid is giving us a full team of individuals that have characteristics and do things outside of this or the next universe-altering battle. The richness of what Waid is doing far outweighs any need for action gratification that I have.
Sorry some of you aren't enjoying that as much as I.
From: Portland, Oregon | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:In contrast Waid is giving us a full team of individuals that have characteristics and do things outside of this or the next universe-altering battle. The richness of what Waid is doing far outweighs any need for action gratification that I have.
I can very much identify with this statement.
Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
Hyperpath: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic | Subscribe To Topic
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
or was that Torture, Mutilate, Kill? ![[Mad]](mad.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
