Art: yeah I kinda liked Manipul's style more but this artist is probably "better." The only real disappointment in it for me was Giselle. Manipul gave her a great look.
Cham's sillyness was fun and Shooter did make several thought provoking plot points about his role with legion and in life. I really don't want too much exploration of ANYone's love life, let alone someone that might get absurdly attracted to the chair I'm sitting on, but still it was a stunner.
I can see several characterizations and plot points being set up, a bit of science with the travel times and Shooter did provoke my interests in the aliens this go-round. Others are right though, time to ramp this story up and pass others to the background.
Not being saddled with seeing a lot of this Waid run to bias my viewpoint of the Shooter issues probably makes it easier for me to enjoy than for others. To me, this does feel like my "old" legion.
From: East Toledo | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I totally agree about Dream Boy, but he should be resolved one way or another. The same goes for Dream Girl. If either (or both) are Legionnaires, we should see them on occasion.
-------------------- "My dance card was getting fuller than a contestant's at a Jandan shurg-off." - Exnihil, The Lost Klordny
From: Frederick, MD | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Kid Quislet: I found it interesting that Saturn Girl wanted to take a team with "muscle" this time on her upcoming trip to Rimbor. She had T-Wolf and Star Boy with her on Triton, but they don't count?
Star Boy is on the Rimbor team -- look at next month's cover. It's quite understandable why she'd leave Timber Wolf at home. She doesn't want a repeat of last time.
I'm trying to figure out what happened in the bio-repair room. M'Rissey took Star Boy's flight ring and replaced it with a fake?
From: Reimagined Trom | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Mediocre Boy: Not to be a nit-picker, but I have a continuity beef about the flight-ring history segment: they'd already been invented by the time that Invisible Kid joined the Legion. I suppose that he could've discovered Valorium before he joined the group, but historically (in all other iterations of the Legion, I believe) Lyle discovered/made his anti-gravity metal as an active member of the team.
Lyle didn't invent flight rings for the original Legion, iirc. Brainy did, based on an element (Element 152) Mon-El created, which of course wasn't called Valorium pre-Crisis. I don't recall any stated connection to the Nth Metal, either (someone please correct me if I'm wrong).
Anyway, it's noteworthy that (a) the 3boot flight ring creation story is almost identical, word for word, to the reboot origin and (b) the Johnsboot Legion flight rings are made of Nth Metal/Valorium as well (as per the Lightning Saga).
Didn't the flight rings the first time come around as something that didn't work for lyle, and brainy tweaked it and it turned into the flight rings
and with the reboot it was the just the reverse way?
quote:Originally posted by Tamper Lad: [/qb]
Lyle ran away from home by putting on a Legion ring and jumping out the window. Then he was quickly joined by the rest of the team in flight. They also called him one of "Brainy's Kids", in an early issue so he was probably working with Brainy before taking his leap and revealing himself as a Legionnaire.
Since Brainy mentioned that the rings were expensive, IK must have been deemed important. He was given a ring even before he was with the team full-time. So there's no contradiction in the more complete explanation given this issue, he and Brainy collaborated on the ring and he had one in his keeping when he finally decided to take the leap.[/QB][/QUOTE]
they also in earlier issues that say lyle knew his dad was selling his work behind his back, and made a huge deal about giving it all up, his dad then did on him, what could have happened is brainy knew that lyle had the power to make himself invisible and tried to get him in, but maybe that wouldn't have been enough, or being super smart power in the legion was already taken, so they could have to give real prof he was a good get
-------------------- ／l、 ﾞ（ﾟ､ ｡ ７ l、ﾞ ~ヽ じしf_, )ノ
i do commissions
From: ny | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Enjoyed this issue. Art was ok, I felt it was uneven, some really nicely done panels and pages (especially like the Lyle/alien fight) but others just looked akward.
Not liking Projectra, was fine with her in other issues (actually loving it in past issues) because I felt that she was using her haughtiness as basically a defense mechanism to keep the lose of her planet and family from overwhelming her (kind of a "I'm Princess Projectra of Orando, I'm not going to cry" mentality). However, her attack on the tourists (and strength?) does not thrill me, hope to see this resolved soon.
Did enjoy the tidbit about the time it takes to do space travel and what that tells about the alien invaders. That was probably my favorite part of the issue as it really sent shivers up my spine. Mainly because I don't recall reading anything where they have ever touched upon that concept before, travel times are usually ignored in comics.
got to go (work) will post more later
-------------------- Long Live the Legion!
Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Tromium: I'm trying to figure out what happened in the bio-repair room. M'Rissey took Star Boy's flight ring and replaced it with a fake?
It was my impression that M'Rissey 'borrowed' the ring while Thom was laid up, and that scene showed him returning it on the sly, surely after acquiring the secrets of building one. Maybe the new UP Legion needs to fly?
-------------------- "My dance card was getting fuller than a contestant's at a Jandan shurg-off." - Exnihil, The Lost Klordny
From: Frederick, MD | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by stephbarton: ...Did enjoy the tidbit about the time it takes to do space travel and what that tells about the alien invaders. That was probably my favorite part of the issue as it really sent shivers up my spine. Mainly because I don't recall reading anything where they have ever touched upon that concept before, travel times are usually ignored in comics.
got to go (work) will post more later
Orson Scott Card used a similar idea in his book "Ender's Game." Earth sent a fleet toward the home planet of a hostile species, and the first battles were fought by the newest ships that had arrived first, and by the final attack on the homeworld the remaining ships were the oldest and slowest that had launched years earlier than the newer ones.
From: Douglasville, GA | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
i like that we finally got to see the new clubhouse in a clear shot. i'm soso on the design but at least there is one. Lopresti is great at figures and faces and expressions. Manapul is a much more dynamic story teller and better at concept design/aliens/costumes/future, etc. the scene with imra and garth was my favorite. hard to believe the autopsy surgeons couldn't cut into the alien when we saw Shadow Lass hack one in two with an axe. good issue. it all seems to actually be heading somewhere.
-------------------- Gorilla Nebula
From: san francisco | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by stephbarton: ...Did enjoy the tidbit about the time it takes to do space travel and what that tells about the alien invaders. That was probably my favorite part of the issue as it really sent shivers up my spine. Mainly because I don't recall reading anything where they have ever touched upon that concept before, travel times are usually ignored in comics.
got to go (work) will post more later
Orson Scott Card used a similar idea in his book "Ender's Game." Earth sent a fleet toward the home planet of a hostile species, and the first battles were fought by the newest ships that had arrived first, and by the final attack on the homeworld the remaining ships were the oldest and slowest that had launched years earlier than the newer ones.
Thanks, I haven't read Enders Game (although I've heard good things about it). I certainly have seen the concept used in some other sci-fi books sparingly (never to the extent that you describe), however, I can't recall it ever being used in comics and I thought it was a nice touch. I especially liked the questions it raised about what 'happened' to the invaders. Usually you have evil planet trying to conquer good planet and that's that. Hear you have this unknown race that sent killing machines out and then just stopped, creepy.
-------------------- Long Live the Legion!
Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hm. Don't get me wrong, I have been enjoying Shooter's run so far. It reminds me of a big sommer blockbuster action movie - terribly unsubtle, maybe even kind of dumb (or certainly gunning for the lowest common denominator), but also fun, visually captivating and with occasionally inspired moments (e. g. the use of certain Legionnaire's powers and so on). To me, it feels paced just right and is much more entertaining than a lot of what preceded it.
There are always a fair amount of things in every issue which really grate on me, though, and this one was no exception:
The futuristic swear words of space: OH GOD, STOP IT ALREADY.
Shooter's giving - sometimes archetypical, sometimes stereotypical - characterisation to characters who've partially been in dire need of it. That's nice. I wish it was commonsensical or consistent characterisation, though. For example, when Imra did her little "your Highness" curtsy number, I was expecting Projectra to feel patronised and clock her one. That Projectra didn't makes her come across as really, really dumb (or she’s possessed, as wamu2 and Prince Projector have said – possessed by dumb). I also wasn't buying Brin going from foaming-at-the-mouth rage monkey to kicked puppy in the space of two issues. I just don’t feel that Shooter’s that adept at nuanced characterisation; he often seems to have his characters react to the demands of the plot and not according to their inner workings.
Then there's the, uh, fascinating private life of Garth and Imra. Shooter’s approach to writing interaction between the different genders strikes me as decidedly old-fashioned. The default characterisation for Shooter's guys isn’t (some kind of hard-to-define) “neutral”, it’s “macho”. Every male Legionnaire not characterised as a manly man - who’s for example shrugging off injuries, like Star Boy, or like Karate Kid, mighty vandalizer of communication robots – is a deviation from the norm.
Girls (or at least Ayla, Tinya and Imra) on the other hand go all starry-eyed over guys who are “masterful” or display some kind of old-school chivalry (Brin kissing Projectra’s hand).
Mind you, I don’t think this kind of characterisation is bad in itself.
But when I read something like Imra clamouring for a good spanking, I can’t help but remember that old interview where Shooter was extensively elaborating on the sexual habits of the Legionnaires. His Imra now doesn’t seem to have changed from his Imra then - by Jove, would she rather be happily dominated without all these annoying responsibilities dragging her down!
I think the outwardly tough-as-nails, competent ice queen who secretly longs to rid herself of agency to become a “real woman” in the arms of her studly lover is one really lame cliché. (To milk that interview for probably more than it’s worth - let’s hope that, should Dream Girl resurface, she won’t be the “team slut”, as Shooter so charmingly put it back then.) And even apart from Imra’s characterisation being clichéd, NO, I absolutely do not need that much knowledge about the Ranzz-Ardeen bedroom antics. When I read a scene like this one I feel like I’m involuntarily becoming privy to the author’s kinky fantasies, since, seriously, you can’t sell this stuff as thoughtful, low-key characterisation which makes us all understand Imra so much better afterwards – instead, it’s just really clumsy titillation.
Wow, the flight rings have suddenly become imbued not with future-tech-so-advanced-it-seems-like-magic attributes, but with honest-to-goodness absolutely nonsensical magical attributes! If you rub them right, does a genie appear to grant you three wishes?
Put me down for Team Manapul! I nonetheless enjoyed Aaron Lopresti’s art very much (especially his very mobile facial expressions. He’s a true master of the female bitten lower lip, isn’t he?), although Francis Manapul’s strikes me as technically more distinguished. With Lopresti I sometimes had the feeling that his anatomy was a touch off, e.g. the facial features not being exactly in the right place in the faces, and so on. Still, the two art styles complimented each other nicely.
Registered: Oct 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
My pet theory for Projectra's and Brin's characterizations in #41 is that Jeckie has some kind of clever plan in pursuit of which she has used her powers to disguise herself as Brin and vice versa.
posted
holy crap, link me to this interview, insomniac?!
yeah i really have to agree with being creeped out by this depiction of imra. i thought he was doing ok with making imra be very business like, i thought it was good to see her confident in her abilities as well as their applications, and fully able to handle the problem of projectra with finesse. she was GREAT!
right until the bedroom scene in this issue.
at which point i became really really disgusted by her character. that was SO unnecessary! i'm fine with her missing garth but the idea that she wants him to dominate her is grossly inappropriate.
i've been pining for dream girl to get wrapped up but it looks like he's forgotten her. I guess, if he's intending to make her team slut then we should be considering ourselves lucky, huh?
i will say, that ever since shooter signed onto this project i've been really dreading each page turn, given his history towards female and gay representation in his writings and during his tenure as the head of marvel look up ". Projectra, whom i thought was pretty adorable during waid's run, someone that went from spoiled naive person to a brave capable person, is beginning to border offensive with her nonsense.
i will say that i thought he added more depth to garth by making him able to say 'no, baby i gotta work on this leader stuff' to his crazy-hot girlfriend trying to get on him....but at the expense of Saturn. Women in his run have become objects, even our new kickass Violet/Atom girl only pops up to go "yeah, leave brin alone".
i wish they'd pair manapul's art with waid's writing! lopresti did a very good job, though, i thought. i agree that manapul's little details are what get me.
Never met the man so its hard to know what his politics are like in full context, not interview snippets or decisions made as a fiduciary agent of Marvel's corporate bosses.
As a writer, Shooter was no doubt restricted by the times and the Comics Code when he was writing these characters previously. It's known he tried to create Ferro Lad as a black character for the Legion. He was to have taken off his mask and the Legionnaires were to have seen his black face and it wouldn't have mattered because he was a hero. Blocked by DC's editors, Shooter killed him rather than have him as another white legionnaire. This was Jim Shooter as a teenager.
He does write female characters in a very classical comic book way. Though really Karate Kid was the object for LightLass.
Regarding Saturn Girl in particular, I was discussing Atlas Shrugged recently. Ayn Rand had some weird ideas about sexual identity. Shooter writes Imra as Rand would, liberated and masterful in her work but totally submissive in bed.
From: Canada | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
Hyperpath: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic | Subscribe To Topic
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
