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Jerry posed the question in the Space Circus thread, "Was Gerry Conway a good writer?"
I'm going to be reviewing my preboot collection soon, for a couple of reasons:
a. to see how Jecky treated her fellow Legionnaires.
b. to remind myself of the Conway run
The Conway era was special to me because it was during my Jr. High years. I hated Jr. High.
Without looking back at reference, I'd say the plots were not bad, but the execution of the stories were weak. Also, the art was pretty bland after such greats as Cockrum and Grell. Joe Staton and Jimmy Janes did respectable work, just.... dull. Also, the spectacular work of Levitz/Giffen follows the Conway era, so it (the Conway era) does sort of fall away in comparison.
Actual analysis coming soon, but please feel free to post your own.....
Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
posted
This is the era of the Legion that I am least familiar with, so I'm looking forward to this discussion.
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
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Conway was indeed a good writer in other contexts--Firestorm, a zillion Marvels--but he was not suited to the Legion. Very few of those stories stand out to me now (though that's a good excuse to re-read them).
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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When I re-read all my Legions from start to finish (at the time) a number of years ago, I found the Conway years the most difficult to get through.
The kind of dull, average stories that could kill a title. Average art, Staton was okay, Jim Sherman was great - the artistic highlight of the era.
It was a real temptation to pick up the story from the art and skip the dialogue entirely.
From: PEI, Canada | Registered: Aug 2003
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I just re-read Conway's first Legion offering, S/LSH # 248-49, and I have to agree with Dean's assessment that the plots were not bad but the execution left a lot to be desired.
This two-part story is essentially a rematch with Dr. Mantis Morlo, the Chemical Conqueror--a somewhat obscure villain from Adventure Comics # 362-63. Morlo's identity is kept secret until near the end of # 249, and then he is defeated in all of two pages. There's a reason why some villains remain obscure . . .
But the focus of the story isn't on the villain; it's more on the Legionnaires themselves. Conway tries to inject personalities and drama, but he overdoes it by having everyone overreact to just about everything. It begins with Shadow Lass getting injured while fighting a sewer monstrosity (created by Morlo); Sun Boy is so overrought that he takes needless personal responsibility for Shady's injury; one might think he was secretly in love with her.
Then Mon-El enters the picture. The cover gives away the emotional tenor of the story by having Mon grab Dirk and threaten him for causing Shady's "death." In truth, the scene doesn't happen in the story, although Mon does grab Brainy instead of Dirk. But in the story, Conway describes Mon as "in many ways . . . younger" than Superboy, "less confidant" [sic] and "far closer to his emotions." These traits of Mon's can be borne out by other stories, but there's no excuse for Mon threatening fellow Legionnaires and then refusing to assist them so he can remain at Tasmia's side. Mon comes off as so co-dependent that one might think he and Shady had a John-Yoko relationship.
Brainy is also acting up in this story--he's detached and unconcerned for his fellow Legionnaires--but this foreshadows his going off the deep end in the Omega story to follow.
Conway does include some nice moments of Garth and Imra as newlyweds; Garth tries to impress his new wife with his cullinary skills. Later on, Garth, who has just been elected leader, faces the weight of command in deciding how the team should proceed. These bits keep the story from being a total loss.
Joe Staton's art is serviceable but his figures are often awkward. He is inked by David Hunt in the first part and Jack Abel in the second; Abel is the more suitable inker, but just barely.
Last comment: The second half of the story does not take up the entirety of 249; a backup Chameleon Boy solo story by Paul Kupperberg fills out the issue. It's just as well, since the Morlo story isn't worth a full two issues.
[ January 06, 2010, 08:41 PM: Message edited by: He Who Wanders ]
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
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Hey, I've read the first of those issues! I do seem to remember feeling like everyone just seemed to be massively overreacting to everything, but I see that as pretty much characteristic of 70s comics (or at least the 70s Legion). I see it as part of the same trend that has Cosmic Boy acting like a cocky jerk and slapping Ayla around, etc.
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
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Writers of the '70s (and before and after) did use overreacting as a shorthand attempt at characterization, but, for the most part, they did not strain credibility overmuch. This is not the case in Conway's story.
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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"Conway does include some nice moments of Garth and Imra as newlyweds; Garth tries to impress his new wife with his cullinary skills. Later on, Garth, who has just been elected leader, faces the weight of command in deciding how the team should proceed. These bits keep the story from being a total loss."
And which issues would these be? I could use the info.
-------------------- I want to be hated by lies - Bring Back Lian Harper
posted
The first scene is in 248, the second in 249, Kid.
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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In the big picture, the sewer monster caper was really easy for the Legion to handle. Yeah, Shady and Dirk got hurt by the creature, but Brainy's Chemical De-Synthesizer did the trick. Morlo and the Chemoid were absolutely no problem.
They made it seem like Shady would die, but that never came across as a true possibility. False drama? False advertising?
It is clearly the characterization that shines above the simple plot.
The Legionnaires seem to bicker quite a bit as they enter the sewer and engage the monster. Maybe they're fatigued and impatient after Earthwar?
Mon-El automatically blames them when they bring the injured Shadow Lass back to hq. He demands that Brainy treat her. Brainy would rather work on his gadgets. (Both of their crazies are beginning to show!)
We see Garth's first efforts in the kitchen. It's great that he wants to impress his wife. We see that Imra is comfortable reading his mind. She knows that this is his first time cooking even though he said he used to pride himself on being a gourmet cook. Also, Imra verbally responds to one of Garth's thoughts about the food. He reacts with confusion. Note - add Venusian Crab in Butter Sauce, Steamed Martian Tris-Roots and Ganymedian Roseleafs au gratin to the Fooood! thread.
Yes, it is interesting the being the leader seems to trouble Garth, and he looks to Imra, but she lets him make his own decisions. Nice.
Brande's bankruptcy is an interesting sub-plot.
Conway's text is pretty cheesy:
"Imagine a battle fought in shadow, in waters ankle-deep with scum, in a darkness as foul and fetid as a reeking tomb...
Imagine this, and you'll grasp but a tenth of the horror--"
Tinya said it best, "Sounds like a fright holo-picture's plot!"
I think you're right about the characterization. It was one of Conway's strong suits.
The more I think about the Garth/Imra scenes, the more I like them. In the second scene, Garth turns to Imra for silent advice, but she, recognizing that it's his turn to lead, says nothing.
The fanboy in me almost wants to criticize Conway for having Imra accidentally read Garth's mind in regards to his cooking--surely a telepath of her skill and experience wouldn't "accidentally" read anyone's mind. But the scene is funny and works in the context of the characters as Legion newlyweds.
It's clear that Conway knows his Legion history--he acknowledges both Imra and Cos as past leaders. The bantering in the sewer plays well. And Brainy's detachment continues from the past couple of issues, foreshadowing what is to be revealed in # 250.
Perhaps it's only because this was Conway's first effort at writing the Legion that the story itself amounts to little else than overacting in a third-rate horror movie.
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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Gerry Conway is a very talented writer and I personally some of the work he’s done in comics were the medium at its finest: particularly Amazing Spider-Man and Thor. I do, however, think his run on the Legion is among his weakest work. Like Jorge, when I reread the entire Legion run a few years back, this was probably the single toughest era for me to get through.
I believe Steve Ditko’s Legion work is in here and there’s a similar comparison. Ditko is what I consider one of the greatest artists in comics history. He has a dynamic to his work that is completely his own, and he’s a trend-setter and universe creator. He’s the medium at its finest, himself. But his Legion work is among what I’d consider some of his weaker work. It seemed a little flat and wasn’t capturing the spirit of what Conway wanted to do.
One major complaint with Conway’s writing has already been mentioned by HWW, namely the massive over-reactions of everyone in every scene. That seems to be something of a Marvel trait taken to its logical extreme, and it doesn’t work here at all. Conway consistently tries to ensure there are sequences in every story where the characters interact, and I think that’s a noble endeavor. The execution of these scenes, however, is hampered by the overreactions and therefore actually don’t read that well. Still, sometimes they worked IIRC. I like Dean’s idea though that they were fatigued after Earth War. That wouldn’t be too far-fetched.
Something everyone should consider is that at age 18 Gerry Conway was a successful science-fiction paperback novel writer. And he stayed that way through the entire 70’s—in fact, most of his writing was from these paperbacks. I’ve never read any of these works (I’m curious), but I wonder how they read? So his taking over the Legion is a natural fit from a genre standpoint. In fact, his Thor stories a few years earlier are so science-fiction oriented that they could easily have been Legion stories (and they’re actually pretty good!). Part of me wonders if perhaps Conway thought he was writing to a younger audience with the Legion and that’s why his dialogue suffers a little? That’s purely hearsay but I do wonder.
Conway’s Thor run often had Thor teaming up with the Warrior’s Three, Sif, Hilda (a Valkrye), the Recorder, Tana Nile, Balder, Heimdall, a bunch of new characters he introduced and Hercules. Sometimes all of them at once! So he could handle a story with 6+ heroes at once. Often they were in space: visiting new civilizations, encountering new life-forms, battling enemies, getting caught between two sides of a bad misunderstanding…all kinds of great plots. And the execution on most these stories—while obviously written in the early 1970’s—is actually quite good. You’d think he’d be a Legion natural. Yet, he wasn’t. I suspect it was an adjustment in his approach (re: who he thought he was writing to) or some kind of behind the scenes stuff we don’t know about.
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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Okay, by #252, the Omega battle is over. The hq is destroyed and Matter Eater Lad and Brainy have gone insane and are committed to the UP Medi Center at St. Croix. The Legion is visiting them, hoping to ease Tenzil's condition.
Brainy suggests that Jeckie create an illusion of calm into Tenzil's mind, then Dream Girl could enter his thoughts. Jeckie mentions how risky this is, and that Dreamy could get lost in his madness.
Okay... what?
I understand the illusion of tranquility, but how did Dreamy enter his mind? How was Tenz able to pull her into his madness? I don't get it.
Luckily, Dreamy breaks away before she loses her sanity, and is only stunned. Also, with Saturn Girl standing right there, why are Jeckie and Dreamy the ones getting into Tenz's head?
Tenz is as sick as ever as is Brainy. He's escorted back to his room.
Jeckie note - after they leave the mental ward, she says, "We have had much luck lately, dear friends! None of it very good..." She seems pretty annnoyed with this state of being.
The infamous Starburst Bandits attack. Staton does and adequate job of choreographing the fight and Conway's illustrative prose is over the top as usual. "... for once in her rigidly controlled life, Imra Ranzz goes wild!"
"... but then capricious fate takes a hand..."
The bandits actually defeat the Legion - they pop Wildfire's containment suit, they use red solar rays on Superboy, they overpower Sun Boy and Lightning Lad, they konk Jeckie in the head, they don't do anything to Saturn Girl or Dreamy. Then they retreat without the cargo they were after.
Meanwhile, Brande is irritated by UP Revenue Agents.
Meanwhile meanwhile, a whiney Mon-El is sorting through the rubble of the destroyed hq. "Grim thoughts, Mon-El?" asks Shady. "... the grimmest..." Sheesh!
So then the team convenes on their Legion cruiser. Superboy announces that the bandits were trying to steal synthetic Neutronium down on Earth. Since they didn't get it, the Legion figures the bandits would go after natural neutronium - which comes from the core of the sun. By extracting the sun's neutronium, the bandits would cause a chain reaction ending in a massive explosion - which would destroy all 9 planets of the Solar System.
This is a really fun sci-fi plot, IMO. Can't wait to see what happens!!
Lightning Lad the leader plows the Legion ship into the Bandits' ship, stopping the extraction process. Then they scoop up all the stunned bandits. Heh, that was easy!
Now, to stop the chain reaction... SUN BOY SINGLE HANDEDLY CURES THE CORE OF THE SUN!!!!! No problem!
Notes - Dreamy is presented as a damsel in distress on the cover and 2 or 3 times in the story. Wildfire admires her "talent" when she slips out of a bandit's grip.
Garth and Imra switch between speaking to each other and telepathic communication. "...Garth, darling... I love you..." "And I, you... forever."
At this point, I'm getting the idea that Conway over dramatizes everything. He tries to portray mundane antagonists like these Starburst Bandits or the Sewer Monsters as SO perilous, but then they're all defeated SO easily. It just comes across as ... irritating.
Hyperpath: Email this page to someone!
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