posted
The Amazing Spider-Man: the Ditko era Part I (AF #15 to #ASM 18)
Undoubtedly, these are some of the best stories ever written in the comic book artform. There isn't much I can add to what's been said over the years: Great concept, great motivation ("with great power..."), great character that can remind any person that despite their flaws, they can be heroic.
Here's some other things I like:
-Steve Ditko. Although he might get a bad wrap on this board b/c of his Legion run, his Spider-man art is some of the best to ever grace a comic book. He is my Dad's all-time favorite artist, and drew my Dad's eyes away from Kirby's FF and Swans and Infantino, making my Dad a Spider-Man fan for life. His work here (and on Capt. Atom and Blue Beetle) has such a unique style, with different poses and cool tight panel layouts, that I can't get enough. Also, he is one of the few silver age artists to purposely draw ugly characters that weren't villians, to make Spidey live in a realistic world.
Ditko is *the* Spidey artist of all-time. Then Romita. And then all the rest. I love his art--I mean, who isn't drawn in when we see Spidey fighting the Scorpion or unmasked by Doc Ock.
-The recurring cast was good too. Although the first seventeen issues were establishing the recurring cast without too many huge changes, it was great seeing Liz evolve into someone likable, see Betty deal with Peter's strangeness, Flash be Peter's rival and then JJJ be Spideys. Jonah Jameson is one of the best supporting characters in any comic, and very original (at least, he seemed so to me). Although he was a real jerk in these issues, I like the way he (and Flash) have evolved over the decades.
-The villians. Spider-man has the best villians in the Marvel U, hands down. And drawn by Ditko and dialogued by Lee sure helped . I love the early villians, like Doc Ock, the Vulture, Kraven, and especially the Lizard and Mysterio. Mysterio just looks so cool, and the Lizard was so menacing in #5. Doc Ock was by far Spidey's nemesis, and when he took of Spidey's mask in #11, it was a great scene.
-I really like how the Torch grew into being Spidey's rival and then friend. Probably the best Marvel U friendship IMO.
-#16 to #18. This was definately the best Spidey story up to that point, and one of the best ever (#31 to #33 is the best Spidey story ever IMO, and the 2nd best comic book story ever too, only beaten by FF #51). Aunt May being sick, Spidey hiding from the Sandman, the Green Goblin, the Torch, the Enforcers, it had everything--including Aunt May really coming through for Peter and giving him a big speech. When my father was a boy, his mother had cancer and was also bed-ridden, and this story really hit home for him. The dialogue is Stan Lee at his finest.
- The Covers - these are some of the best, ever. We have a display board in my basement that allows us to put up about 200 comics, and we are always putting up the early Spider-man. The covers are beautiful, and really show how Ditko shined, and how Spider-man looked so different from other super-heroes. I love the Lizard cover, the Mysterio cover, and the Green Goblin/Torch cover. They're *all* good.
-Quick fanboy moment: I like the Green Goblin too, and how he suddenly grew into Spidey's nemesis. Undoubtedly, Doc Ock was Spidey's first arch-nemesis, and the two issues in a row where he fights him, including unmasking him, really hammer this home. With #14, the Goblin becomes the new nemesis for most of the 20's, then paving the way for Doc Ock's return in #31 as the surprise villian. And then of course, the 30's end with the Goblin's return for the famous story where he learns Spidey's identity. These two are the true arch-nemesis of Spider-man, and the Goblin dying later on only made him a better--a villian with more mystique, the one who killed Gwen. I also like how the Hobgoblin took over the role of the GG (unlike Harry or Dr. Bart Hamilton, who didn't last long), as Spidey's other main villian. Venom doesn't really do it for me, for reasons I won't get into yet.
With #18, Spider-man truly was one of the best comic books in the Silver Age, and shows why he'd stay so popular for the next forty years.
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Reading your rundown of the Lee/Ditko era only reminds me how innovative those early stories were. And Spidey probably has the best rogues gallery in comicdom (even better than Batman because aside from the top three or four, there are a lot of losers in that bunch).
From: New York, NY | Registered: Jul 2003
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I like to break up the Ditko era into two groups, the first ending with #18, and the second ending, of course, with Ditko's departure. Although he wasn't there an incredibly long period of time, Ditko's art was the defining Spider-man, and no amount of praise will ever be enough. As with the other stories, there is little I can add to how great these Lee/Ditko stories are, so I'll just continue pointing out the things that I really like.
-With #18, the greatest Spidey story so far had been told, and Lee/Ditko were on a role that would last through the entire 20's. The stories in the 20's, particularly the two Scorpion stories rounding them out and the Green Goblin/Crime Master story are incredible. Issues #31-33 are what I consider to be the 2nd greatest comic book story of all time, right after FF #51. There is no better Spider-Man story ever, and it truly could have been the last Spider-man story if it needed to be--it really brought Peter into a new place, and made him the stronger, more mature person he had always wanted to be. After #33 though, the last Ditko stories were a little lacking IMO, although in hindsight, I'd prefer to have stories like this than half of what's on the market today.
-#31-33: continuing what I just said, this is IMO the best Spidey story ever. Aunt May dying, everything going wrong, and a tired Spidey struggling to get her the serum. After countless battles, a surprise battle with Doc Ock, his arch-nemesis suddenly back again, and then more battles, Spidey is stuck under those pipes and steel. Those scenes are riveting. Peter finally manages to get up for Aunt May and keep going when he was sure he was beaten. Truly amazing. My words can't do it justice, so I'll stop now .
My father can't even talk about these three issues without crying.
-The Green Goblin and the Crime Master. The Green Goblin really came into his own during these issues, assuming his place as Spidey's new arch-nemesis. Ditko made him seem to be the perfect counter-part to Spidey, agile and brillant, strong and cunning. The mystery of his identity is great to read too--although it seems that it wasn't truly as riveting as today's comics are. Ditko was adamant that Spidey should not know who the Goblin was, while Lee wanted it to be a supporting character, like Foswell in #10 as the Big Man.
It's said that Ditko believed it was ludicrous for Spider-Man to know who these people continually were, which is why the Crime Master ended up being a crook he'd never heard of. Lee, however, knew that realism needed to take a back seat to drama sometimes, and began introducing Norman Osborn towards the end of Ditko's run. They say this was one of the small reasons that added to Ditko wanting to leave Spider-Man and Marvel.
The Crime Master himself was pretty cool too, although he only lasted two issues. I really like how the Hobgoblin and the Rose brought back this flavor in the 80's for an extended forty issues instead of two.
-Other villians: the Beetle showed up, the Circus of Crime, the Molten Man, Kraven again, and a few more goofy villians at the end. But one really good villian was the Scorpion, who seemingly is never used correctly in the last twenty years. He truly is menacing in his first two appearances, and really gives Spidey a run for his money, beating him twice in one issue before finally losing. He could have really been made into a Dr. Octupus/Sabertooth type villian with the right writers, but I guess thats how comics go.
-Supporting cast: interestingly, Peter really got a huge overhaul in supporting cast around #28-31. Although Betty and Jonah stayed (and the Bugle), Betty and Peter called it quits for good, and then decided to stay friends, and then Betty remained as a supporting character. This ended the thirty issue long Peter/Betty romance, and in a way that seemed satisfying to both of them and the readers. IMO, Betty becomes even more likable once she's Peter's friend. In addition, two other Bugle employees become prominent, one being Ned Leeds, Betty's new boyfriend. While he started out as Peter's rival, he turns out to be a great guy, which is both realistic and good for Peter, as he becomes a long-time friend of his (and a good plot device as a reporter). The other is Frederick Foswell, who comes back during the Goblin/Crime Master story under suspicion, until we eventually learn that he assumes the guise of "Patch" to find out info on the underworld and try to learn Spidey's identity. Later, when he starts trying to connect Peter to Spidey, he gets more intersting.
Aunt May and Aunt Anna also stick around, although Peter says goodbye to Liz Allen from his supporting cast for over a hundred issues. This is strangely realistic as she goes away to another college, although Peter gets stuck with Flash again. Flash remains a jerk throughout Ditko's run, but I really like how the two will grow to be friends under Romita. And hints of Mary Jane continue, although we don't see her quite yet. And Doc Connors shows up every once in awhile to help Spidey, which is a great touch. Nods to the past were always one of the strong points of a growing mythos.
The other two additions are some of the best ever IMO: Gwen Stacy and Harry Osborn. Gwen is my favorite of Peter's loves, and her character is great from the beginning: mature, smart, sexy, and very independent. She also wonders why Peter is so quiet and cowardly, and Lee is great at showing her wondering why she is attracted to Peter. Harry is good too, although he starts out as a jerk. Lee really lets him open up in the Romita/Goblin story up next, and we finally get to see Peter get a best friend. And we get to see glimpses of Professor Warren too, although just barely.
The Covers: Some of the best ever. The two Scorpion covers are amazing, especially the latter one under-water--truly menacing. The Goblin covers are great too, we own #22 in Mint condition and it looks AMAZING. The Circus of Crime issue is great, and #33 with Spidey lifting the metal off his shoulders invokes an emotion in me that I'm not even sure what to call (emotional nostalgia?). My father hates the cover to #30 with the thief and the water tower, but I find it to be very dynamic (he was just spoiled as a youngster with Kirby and Ditko).
-When Ditko left Spider-Man, it was the most upsetting comics experience that my Dad and his friends ever had. My dad prepared to quit comics all together, some of his friends actually did. His art was truly one of a kind, and no one could imagine Spider-Man without it. #38 really marks the end of the first era of Spider-Man, and the shift to Romita changed a lot of things: clearer, more beautiful art, more beautiful women, Peter getting friends, Peter having women fight over him, Peter in college [or at least really showing us his life there]. It was a big transition for a title that no one believed would last more than a few years. Still, one look at the next story with the Goblin and my father decided to stick around. I'm glad he did.
Up next, true believers: Romita! The Green Goblin! The Kingpin! Gwen Stacy! Mary Jane Watson!
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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Well, I'm not sure if anyone is reading these, but I like talking about Spider-Man
The Romita Years (ASM #39-90)
The change from Ditko to Romita's art is about as stark as they come. Although this may have been a nightmare to many Spidey fans in the 60's, it certainly doesn't bother me. Romita's art is truly beautiful, and it's true about what they say: Romita could draw the prettiest girls. He could also draw one heck of a fight scene, and his issues with Stan are amazing.
-The Goblin/Spidey battle of #39-40. With Ditko gone, Stan pulled out all the stops and got right to it. The Goblin is Norman Osbourne and he knows Peter is Spidey. Truly classic, everyone should read it, my comments will only be redundant . The other great part about this story though, is that Peter finally gets a friend his age.
-Harry. I have a soft spot for Harry, and I miss him now. He was really Peter's best friend, and his first real friend his age. I thought the way they shared an apartment together was soooo cool when I was 12, and Harry really gave Pete the warm doses of friendship and harsh reality checks he needed throughout this era. I'm overjoyed he's in the movies, and unlike Norman, Gwen or Aunt May, I have and still want him back from the dead.
-Gwen Stacey- under Romita, Gwen became the true love of Peter's life, and remains to this day my favorite one. She was perfect, both smart and beautiful, but also a caring person who genuinely wanted to always do the right thing. Of course we wanted her to win over Mary Jane, Gwen was the best comic book girlfriend I've ever read!
-Mary Jane- MJ was also a great character, although a bit of an airhead and a little flimsy. But she was also a sweetie, and a much needed dose of fun into Peter's life. She was also great as a plot device for getting into trouble! With her, Harry and Gwen grounded as Peter's main best friends, Peter had finally stopped being the outcast he always was. A change, but a welcome one, showing Spidey's progression as a character.
-His other supporting cast members made the book as well. I can't think of any other run on a comic with a more dynamic and intersting supporting cast of characters: Flash, growing from an idiot to a war veteran/mature person who became Pete's friend; JJJ, the ever present menace in Spidey's life; Robbie, Betty, Ned and the Bugle staff, John Jameson, Prof. Warren, Dr. Connors, Aunt May, Aunt Anna, Randy Roberston and many more. One of the best characters though was Captain Stacy, one of the great men in Peter's life and (to steal from another reviewer) the conscience of the series for this whole run. I miss him a lot too, even though it's four hundred issues later, and enjoyed seeing him there for both Peter and Spidey.
-Constant dynamic action. That was pretty much Stan's go of it, and the energy in these issues is non-stop. The Rhino, the Lizard, the Shocker, the new Vulture, Kraven, the Vultures against one another, the Chameleon, etc. Consistent action and fun adventures with something always threatening to break apart Peter's life.
-Dr. Octupus and the Kingpin. The two big enemies of Spidey during this era. Both of them had three great stories with Spidey IIRC, the Kingpin's being all great. First we get the classic Spidey quitting, coming back, Foswell dying story and then two more, the final being a three way battle with the Schemer. Corny as that may have been, it's still a blast to read. The Doc Ock stories are very good too, the story with Spidey joining him being one of the best Doc Ock stories ever IMO.
-And then there is the Death of Captain Stacy. The first real important since Uncle Ben to die in Peter's life, Captain Stacy's death was heroic and tragic. Even more, it really marks then end to this era, since from here on in, Peter would see constant death, betrayal and sadness forever. He died telling Peter to protect Gwen, which ironically he would not do. The story itself is a great story, a classic Doc Ock/Spidey story with the noble death of Captain Stacy, and issue 90 ends with everything literally never being the same again.
-Great covers. Besides Spidey's classic turning his back in #50, there is also great Romita covers with the Shocker, the Vultures, Doc Ock, Mary Jane, etc.
-Other cool tidbits for me: John Jameson and Capt. Stacy talking about who Spidey is, and then Joe Robertson and Capt. Stacy continuing this. Spidey throwing Patch off his trail before Foswell ultimately died. The Prowler, a cool ass character that I have a huge fondness for. The place the characters always got coffee and the constant parties they'd through (including the one where Pete walked in with the mask in hand telling them he was Spidey). Flash in Viet Nam. Jonah becoming a more important part of Peter's life. And most of all, Gwen and Peter falling in love!
Great stuff!
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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The Final Vestiges of the Silver Age for Spidey (ASM #91-122)
After the Death of Captain Stacy, nothing was ever the same again, although it was truly the death of Gwen that ended the Silver Age for Spidey. The issues between those two had both good stories and a couple of weak stories, but the constant supporting cast is what makes this issues continue to be great. With #100, Stan departed as writer of Spidey, (although he came back for a few), and a few others artists had some runs (including Gil Kane doing a cool Gwen, Peter and Jonah in the Savage Land story with Ka-Zar and Kraven).
After Capt. Stacey's death, Spidey is now a murderer to the public, something that now truly makes him a menace. Although he never was good in the public eye, things have now really changed. The issues right after deal with repercussions for Peter and Gwen, although they finally get back together in the endings to one of the issues, since I'm sure readers were writing in and demanding it.
The return of the Goblin story and Harry's drug abuse is an amazing story in the mid 90's, and one of my favorites to this day. Peter beating up the drug dealers is a fun alternative to knowing that the Goblin is going to harm all of Peter's friends. A great, great story.
Issue 100 is a great story as well, and gives a good finish to Stan's 100 issues, although the following six-armed story with Morbius never really did it for me. The Gwen/Peter story in the Savage Land is fun, although the Gibbon, the Demolisher and some others are forgettable.
Doc Ock's return is a great story, although his new nemesis appears in the form of Hammerhead. Although at first he appears goofy (which he undoubtedly is), he's grown on me over the years, and I've come to enjoy the Doc Ock/Hammerhead stories.
From about issue #100 on, you get the feeling that Gwen and Peter should be getting married, or at least want to be getting married, which creates an anxiety when you know what #121 has in store. The rest of the supporting cast plays a major part in keeping the weaker villian plots afloat, and constant appearances by a returned Flash, Prof. Warren, Harry, MJ, the Bugle staff and others maintain the level of fun for me.
And then issue #121-122, forever placing the Green Goblin as Spidey's worst villian (although once he came back from the dead, this kind of ended). Gwen dies, and everything is different. Peter's life is now full of misery and tragedy. From here on in, there will be a lingering sadness that never really goes away until his wedding. The Goblin dies too, ruining Peter's relationship with Harry (for some time), and cements the Goblin's role as the villian who ruined everything and then died before Peter could really get any kind of revenge. A great story all in all, although I hate seeing Gwen die still. With Gwen and Norman Osbourne dead, Peter's supporting cast is changed forever and the Silver Age of Spider-man ends.
I can think of the image right now of the two cops, one an older black man and the other a young rookie, the veteran cop telling the rookie to lower his gun, he doesn't know what he's doing. It's riveting!
Some of the best Spidey stories, some of the not-so-best, but all in all, fun to read just the same!
Next: The aftermath! a changing of the guard of the supporting cast! the Jackal! Clones! the Punisher! Gerry Conway's touch of death! The Mind-worm?
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
I am enjoying reading these, so keep going if you will. I wish I could run out and grab some of those big "Essential" books, or better some of those paperback archives at the Barnes & Noble.
From: Douglasville, GA | Registered: Jul 2003
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I hear you on the Essential books and archives, I'm glad Marvel still prints these stories. If only there were some better way to market to people, especially younger children!
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
The Aftermath, the Jackal and some new faces (ASM #123-151)
After #122, Peter's life was never the same, and the Silver Age really did come to an end. The issues right afterwards dealt with the ramifications of 121-122, and then from #129-151, Spidey became immersed in a new saga, the Jackal Saga. Although it's hard to read the issues directly after Gwen's death, there are a lot of good stories in the Spidey-Jackal war, and they can be a fun read. However, there is a stronger amount of goofiness and a feeling of a lower standard of stories in the post Lee/Ditko/Romita years. Once you've read the entire run a few times though, you start to get over this feeling and enjoy the stories for what they are, and see them as just another part of Spidey's life.
-The Aftermath- although the stories after Gwen's death are sad, the writers do a good job at making sure we see Peter and his supporting cast deal with it. Peter is a mess, Harry is a complete mess, JJJ is outraged and wants Spidey brought in, and MJ, Flash and the rest are having trouble dealing with it. There are a lot of good scenes with Peter coming to terms with Aunt May, MJ, Joe Robertson, etc. and some intense scenes with Spidey and JJJ. The hardest part of the whole thing is the relationship between Harry and Peter goes completely sour (well, Harry and everyone), and Peter never knows it until #136. Jonah hiring Luke Cage is a bit over the top, but that never stopped him before .
-Gerry Conway's kiss of death- I laugh ever time I read one of the letters in the #130's written by a fan who is outraged at Gerry Conway and describes him as having a kiss of death. First, Gwen and Norman Osbourn die, then the Kangeroo a few issues later, and then Doc Ock and Hammerhead supposedly are blown up. However, at the time, I'm sure it must have felt that people were dropping everywhere and things were spinning wildy out of control. Add in the Vulture almost killing MJ and John Jameson turning into the Man-Wolf for the first time, and I can see how a shell-shocked fan from Gwen's death might think everything is going to hell in 1974.
-New faces- After #122, there did seem to be an influx of new faces though. This had always been the case with Spidey, although there seemed to be some particulurly memorable new faces right after: The Punisher, the Jackal (more on him later), the Tarrantula and the Man-Wolf. I love the Jackal saga, am a big fan of the Tarrantula (he is pretty cool) and the Punisher worked the best when he was a supporting cast member of Spidey IMO. There was also the long-overdue return of the Molten Man 100 issues later with a startling revelation that he was Liz Allen's step-brother (a plot device to bring her back in), and the Scorpion had another good go at Spidey. The Grizzley wasn't that memorable, although he moved along the Spidey/Jackal War, although the Mind-worm was pretty weak all around.
-The Spidey/Jackal War- The Jackal, IMO, was pretty damn awesome. After the death of the Green Goblin, Spidey found himself with a new nemesis, and another with a mysterious identity. First, we see him with the Punisher, an issue of huge firsts. Then we move right into the Jackal with Hammerhead and the Spider-Mobile. Although my father loathes the Spider-mobile, I find it kind of funny since I know it only appeared three times. Hammerhead works well, and then Dr. Octupus is thrown into the mix leading into the second big Hammerhead/Doc Ock war. Although the plot is generally silly (Doc Ock marrying Aunt May ), I enjoy reading the story nonetheless. In the end, both Hammerhead and Doc Ock are blown to smithereens, leaving the Jackal in their wake. With Gobby and Doc Ock dead and the Kingpin missing since the 80's, the Jackal suddenly moves to the front of Spidey's rogue's gallery as the top villian. He also appears one more time, this time teaming up with the not so memoralbe Grizzley in a story that doesn't do much, but does manage to further the Spidey/Jackal War and maintain the mystery of the Jackal.
Professor Warren, who by now had become a pretty major member of Pete's supporting cast, is continually seen. The final revelation of what's to come (him being the Jackal) must have gotten on the nerves of Steve Ditko, although I don't mind the literary use of major coincidences (in that Peter knows yet another arch-nemesis of Spidey in real life). The do a good job though of making it connect directly to Gwen's death, adding a sense of continuity to Peter's life, in that there is one further ramification of Gwen's death: Professor Warren loses it and becomes the Jackal and puts Pete through torture yet again.
-Harry and the second Green Goblin- After #122, Harry pretty much loses it, culminating in #136-137, where he sadly becomes the Green Goblin and holds MJ, Flash and Aunt May hostage. Here, he truly emulates his father by knowing Spidey's identity and using it against him, something only his true villians could do. It's sad, especially the way the issue ends with Harry completely insane, to see Peter's one time best friend (the only kid his age who gave him a chance) have his life ruined. But, like Captain Stacy and Gwen before him (and Prof. Warren), Harry now also suffers the fate of living in a world with Spider-Man and the Green Goblin.
-With huge gaps to fill with the loss of Gwen and Harry in Pete's supporting cast, they had to do something. Flash recieved more time than ever and truly emerges as a good guy and Peter's friend, and Randy Robertson, Betty Brant and Ned Leeds get good time (Ned even being the hostage at Shea Stadium for the final Spidey/Jackal battle). Jonah and Robbie are there in full affect, and John Jameson even gets some screen time (albeit, as Man-Wolf). Aunt May and Aunt Anna do a good job and helping Peter and the rest grieve. The big return though, is Liz Allen to the fold, who comes back in #134 and stays among Peter's friends for the duration of his life. She immediately fits in and rounds out the supporting crew. MJ also seems to finally achieve some character growth and is shown as being more sensitive than she was ever before, although she still maintains some airhead qualities. The writers should have waited for some time before giving Peter a new love, but I guess it makes sense that Pete and MJ would seek consolement from each other and a relationship would emerge. It never does feel right though, the first time they are really together. And although there was some speculation about a Pete/Liz relationship, this was never explored (and probably a good idea--if Liz was seen as a Gwen replacement, she would have been hated).
-Clones and the final Jackal fight- After some twenty issues of grieving and Jackal/Spidey fights, it comes down to the nitty gritty in the 140's. First Mysterio, the Scorpion and a trip to France ensue, until Peter comes face to face with the shock of all shockers: Gwen Stacy. Or her clone at least. This is done extrememly well IMO, since Peter is beside himself in anger and grief. Before anything can be settled, the Tarrantula (a favorite of mine) attacks and he and the Jackal wreak havoc on Spidey's life (the Jackal never fights Spidey alone). After whipping the Tarantula, Spidey searches for the Gwen clone and a kidnapped Ned Leeds and ends up at Shea stadium where the Jackal presents his newest partner: a Spider-Man clone.
The saga ends great (as well as it could) and the Jackal is revealed as Professor Warren, the Spidey clone retains his mantra ('great power, great responsibilty') and sacfrices himself. The Gwen clone, it seems, will live on somewhere else, although there is a sense of closure in Peter's life for the first time since #122, as Professor Warren and the two clones move on. This early clone saga is good and I think should be read without the future knowledge that a five year clone saga is thirty years in the future. The best part of it is the final issue, #151 (?), where Dr. Connors tests Peter to see if he is the clone or the real Spidey, and Peter is smart enough to tear the results up. After all, he doesn't need to know if he's a 'clone' or 'real'--he knows in his heart that he's Spider-man and is ready to continue his battle.
With Captain Stacy, Gwen, Harry, Norman Osbourn and Professor Warren all gone and the Jackal, the Goblin and Doc Ock all dead, Spidey must now wondwer "where do we go from here?" There were of course, still a wide variety of threats to come his way, and a lot of twists and turns in the supporting cast. The stories are still fun and the art is still good, although it seems that so many artists followed Romita's style for a long time, that it's difficult to tell off-hand if Romita is drawing or if someone else is.
So, "where did it go from there"? Well, with a second Spidey book on the way (not counting Marvel Team-Up), there were plenty of places...
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: Thanks matlock !
I hear you on the Essential books and archives, I'm glad Marvel still prints these stories. If only there were some better way to market to people, especially younger children!
I still have 3 battered digest/paperback size reprint books that reprinted a lot of the early Lee/Ditko issues. (I also have one each of the Hulk and FF.) I wish that format would get another go 'round. I also got into the Legion through some Digests.
From: Douglasville, GA | Registered: Jul 2003
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Where Do We Go From Here?: Part I (ASM #152-200)
After the Spidey/Jackal War, Peter's life continued with many twists and turns, although there always seemed to be a sense of being lost in it. It seemed like a lot of writers couldn't find their way on the book, although there are still some memorable fun stories throughout. By #200, there were some major changes to the supporting cast, and the progression of all these characters continued nicely. As of #152, all of the characters that had survived were still in place, but by #200, there would be little to nothing of a supporting cast.
At ASM #167, a new Spider-Man book, Peter Parker: the Spectaculur Spider-man cam out, and had another whole slew of Spidey tales ensued. I'll review those in another post.
I'll go over things chronologically for the first time:
-Ned and Betty's wedding- after one hundred issues and roughly nine years, the long-awaited wedding of Ned and Betty finally took place. The issue, roughly #156 IIRC, is a fun one and really highlights Peter's supporting cast, even though the wedding is crashed by a super-villian (and a weak one at that! Mirage? C'mon!). But from here on in, we see a constant of 'change' in Peter's life as writers struggled with keeping things interesting for Pete's cast. Still, the progression is fun to watch.
-Gloria and Pete's pad- a new addition to Pete's cast, Gloria Grant becomes a mainstay (although she's been forgotten for years on end over the last twenty-five years). First Pete's neighbor, then a fellow Bugle employee, Gloria is a welcome addition. Sha Shan also became more prominent (Flash's girlfriend), although I'll talk more about her in my review of PPTSS. Peter's apartment is another fun aspect of his continuity, as he had to find a new apartment after his friendship with Harry crumbled. After months of having no furniture, his apartment is finally decorated with crappy hand-me-downs and remains that way for some time. How goofy was the giant Indian statue that would always be drawn whenever Pete was in his pad?! More fun for us through Pete's blight.
-The end of the Spider-Mobile- it had to happen sooner or later. Still, it's kind of fun reading this issue, and the Tinkerer returns!
-The Return of Doc Ock...and Hammerhead?- Doc Ock returns, having survived a nucleur explosion, and immdediately the old Aunt May connection is explored. This is fun, although the inherent silliness to the plot may turn a lot of people off. Especially when Hammerhead returns! Yup, he died, came back as a ghost to haunt Ock, and then somehow...came back to life? Confusing, but Hammerhead and Ock were back for their final Ock/Spidey/Hammerhead War! With Gobby and Jackal dead, and the Kingpin not being seen in ages, Spidey needed something of a nemesis. Yet, this and many future Doc Ock appearances are not quite up to standard for Spidey's greatest foe.
-Speaking of the Kingpin...the Kingpin returns!- Like Ock, the Kingpin was brought back in for a few good tussles, although like Ock, the battles didn't have the same flavor as the days of old. One battle circa #167 and another in the mid 190's were not much more than throwaway fights.
-The Lizard and Stergon battles- Like most of the fights in this period, they were a bit over-dramatic and silly, but these are still fun! One in the 160's and another in PPTSS show a mad-house of reptiles, dinosaur skeletons, the Lizard, Stergon the Dinosaur Man and Spidey in an all out brawl. If you're a kid who likes reptiles and dinosaurs, I'm sure you'd be in seventh heaven though.
-Will O Wisp- a bold new superstar! Or at least, that's what the cover says. I guess you had to be there in 1977, but I never really seemed to enjoy Will O'Wisp as much as my 1977 Spider-man reading contemporaries did--it appears that he was pretty popular. I do enjoy seeing Dr. Jonas Harrow, the sneaking scienctist who has always lurked in Spidey's back round making appearances though.
-"When they made Joe Robertson, they broke the mold"- All along, Robbie was an important member of Pete's cast since his first appearance, although at one point during the 160's-170's, he has what I think is his best moment of all time. Talking to Spider-man, he gives him a hard talking to about going on in life, telling him his secret of having another son who died in child-birth and almost ruined his and his wife's life. Yet, the were able to go on, and he tells Spidey to start being strong again. It's his greatest scene ever, and really shows the kind of man that Joe Robertson is. Like Captain Stacy before him, Robbie acts as father figure to Peter and someone to look up to and admire. I love this scene
-The Punisher- The Punisher must have gotten popular fast, because he appeared every twenty issues or so, and usually in good stories. One story with Nightcrawler shows that Marvel was making the transition to a later period and another with the Punisher killing Hitman further shows this.
-Rocket Racer- For some reason, I have a soft spot for him, although not as much as the Prowler. Goofy, 70's-ish, but fun. I wouldn't mind seeing him back in some kind of X-treme sports motiff. At least his story with 'Big Wheel' ( ) showed the Tinkerer back in action and crazy.
-Harry, Dr. Bart Hamilton and the third Green Goblin- Here is where, once again, Spidey's personnal life gets really crazy...although this time, the end brings back a small sense of calm to it. First, Harry returns and comes back as the old Harry (although too shy at first), and then Harry fits right back in with Pete's cast. Next, Harry begins dating Liz Allen, in a great twist for the cast, and Harry really becomes the old Harry as Pete's best friend. And Liz gets some nice happiness too. Then Dr. Bart Hamilton enters the picture, the nice psychiatrist--until he becomes Green Goblin III! A big five parter ensues (with Silverman getting crippled at some point), until Harry dons his old Goblin costume and a Spidey/Green Goblin II/Green Goblin III fight erupts! In the end, Hamilton dies, and Harry is *finally* back to normal, at peace and able to put the memory of the Goblin behind him. Here is where I would have liked to see the legacy of the Green Goblin stop (especially since the Hobgoblin takes over down the road). Harry is back to normal, and now with Liz, and Peter can bury the memory of Norman Osbourn with Gwen (and Warren, Hamilton, etc.).
-Exit: Mary Jane- After a few years of dating MJ after Gwen's death, things moved along shaky and never quite as right as it should have been. Finally, Pete proposes to MJ! Yet...MJ says no. And with good reason, b/c it never really seemed right. In fact, at this point in Spidey's life, it seemed like he shouldn't really be with MJ at all. The writers must have sensed this, and plenty of letter-writers complained that they hated MJ, because soon after, MJ leaves the series completely and leaves Peter heart-broken once more. Her turning down the proposal, or course, made people hate her more. Mary Jane wouldn't be seen again for some time.
-Spidey graduates college- well, sorta. Although he gets shafted again and doesn't get to have his hame called, Peter finally graduates college after 150 issues and roughly 10 years in real time. Still, I wish he could have stayed, since college life was a major part of Spidey's life in the book and a lot of the fun. He does continue on in grad school though for a time. This is a major milestone for Peter though.
-Spidey is cleared by the police- and here is the major milestone for Spidey- After years of being wanted for the murders of Captain Stacy and Norman Osbourn, Spidey is finally cleared as a murderer, and doesn't have police-men shooting at him all the time. Yet another major milestonen in the life of Spider-man.
-Jonah loses it- After this, JJJ pretty much loses it. With cool stories with Spencer Smythe (his best story ever) and Jonas Harrow, JJJ and Spidey go through a series of things that really mark a turning point in their relationship. JJJ seems to crack, and Spidey really gives him a talking to, and when it's all said and done, things are different between them--by this time, Jonah is really not Spidey's *enemy* anymore. And Jonah finally gets a girlfriend! (And later, a wife!)
-Enter the Black Cat- The Black Cat shows up in a memorable story that introduces her to us. Although she is a minor character first, he later appearances would bump her to major.
-Peter's life shits the bed- big time. In the final ten issues leading up to #200, everything goes wrong for Pete. MJ leaves, Betty gets all weird trying to leave Ned for Peter, Flash and Harry think he's a jerk and then the kicker of all kickers: Aunt May dies. Even more, Mysterio seems to be behind a lot of this! Good for Mysterio (who I might add, is supposed to be dead right now), although bad for Spidey.
-Issue #200- Finally: Spidey versus the Burglar, who shot Uncle Ben. In one of the best Spider-Man stories to come out in some time, Spidey finally learns that it is the Burglar who is in league with Mysterio, and they've faked Aunt May's death. Spidey tracks him down, to learn Aunt May is hostage. And two decades worth of revenge finally happens, as Peter continues to scare him out of the rage he's been through in the last ten issues, although I like to think out of the rage he's gone through from Uncle Ben's death, to the Goblin, Captain Stacy, Gwen, the Jackal, MJ leaving him, etc. The Burglar, finally, dies of a heart attack. And more importantly, for the first time Aunt May is not scarred of Spider-Man after having been so since issue 1. This is the most important turning point after all these issues, as there is finally some type of peace between Aunt May and Spidey.
By the end of #200, however, the series was marked with a specific change--no more spotlighting the supporting cast. Although the Bugle would remain a major part, we stopped seeing Harry, Liz, Flash, Sha Shan almsot altogether and hardly ever saw Betty, Ned, Joe Robertson, Marla (JJJ's girlfriend) or Gloria. With no supporting cast being shown, no conflict with the police and no college, once again Spidey entered a period (although quick) of having really no direction.
Meanwhile, in PPTSS, there were other things going on...
[ June 22, 2004, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: Cobalt Kid ]
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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Where Do We Go From Here?: Part II (PPTSS #1-32)
While things were going on with Amazing Spider-Man , the new title Peter Parker: The Spectaculur Spider-Man also made it's debut, promising to focus more on Peter's life than anything else. And for quite awhile, it did just that. These early stories and covers are a blast, although never quite the quality of the main title.
-The best part of this title, is the focus on the supporting cast. Flash, Sha Shan, Harry, Liz, Betty, Ned, Gloria, the White Tiger and his girl (more on that later) and the Bugle all played a major role in almost every issue. Lots of fun (well, maybe not Razorback or the Hypno-Hustler...) seeing them here. And here is where Sha Shan is really seen as a character. All of the supporting cast gets to act as a way of getting Pete through whatever he's going through.
-Action right away- the first issue has the Tarrantula, who I already said that I like a real lot, and the second issue has Kraven, another fave of mine. The mastermind behind this, Lightmaster, is written nicely and appears to be another contender for major nemesis to Spidey. Add in the Vulture and the Hitman (another new baddie) and then Morbius and the Torch, and things are kicking off good right away.
-Light Master- I liked the Light-Master in his first two appearnces (PPTSS #1-3 and #20-21), and he seemed like a potential major baddie. However, all subsequent appearances of him have him down around Rocket Racer's level (maybe even Mindworm), so he was written off early. The two early stories in PPTSS however, are very nicely done.
-The White Tiger- the White Tiger was really the shining star of the early PPTSS stories, all the way through this period, and Hector Ayala became a major supporting cast member (as did his girlfriend). He was fun and gave Spidey someone to fight beside, although making sure never to cross the line into a partnership.
-The Man-Wolf/Hate Moner/Razorback/Flash/Sha Shan Saga- Uh, the less said, the better I guess. Mabye b/c this was going on at the same time as the Green Goblin III Saga, but this story is not really that memorable, and actually ran for about five issues. Razorback? C'mon!
-Disco meets Spidey- #23...I guess you had to be there. Still, seeing Peter and his buddies all decked out in disco out-fits is pretty funny.
-Frank Miller and his first Daredevil story- the mid-20's had a memorable run with Frank Millar doing a Spidey/Daredevil crossover (Spidey is blind). Cool story, and excellent quality with Millar on it.
-The Carrion Saga- Ah, the first really great PPTSS Saga, and once more, another continuation of the Jackal story (which kind of continued the Green Goblin/Gwen story). Another mysterious villian beings attacking Peter at home, knowing his identity, and additionally has a whole array of powers that make him dangerous. With the White Tiger, Spidey is still continually beaten by Carrion, until finally captured to learn from Carrion that he is "the Living Clone of Professor Miles Warren!!!" (aka the Jackal). A cool plot twist and good story, as Spidey battles and then beats Carrion, who dies in the end. For a few issues there, it looked like Carrion was going to be another villian on par with Doc Ock/Green Goblin/Kingpin/Jackal though. And like the continuing Goblin stories, the Jackal had one final continuing story in the form of Carrion.
By #34, like ASM, the old supporting cast seemed to be all gone. The White Tiger left the series after one final story, and with MJ gone in ASM, the final members of the supporting cast seemed to leave quietly as well, with the exception of the Bugle staff.
Once again, with all the changes in Spidey's life in ASM, the editors must have thought "Where do we really go from here?"
[ June 22, 2004, 12:02 PM: Message edited by: Cobalt Kid ]
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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OK, Where Do We Really Go From Here?: (ASM #201-237, PPTSS #34-74)
After #200 of ASM there were a great deal of major changes and turning points in Peter's life that concluded a lot of the conflict that had been moving the book along for 200 issues. In addition, #33 of PPTSS finished off some other points in Peter's life and ended the saga of Carrion (and soon after the White Tiger). With so much fixed and done, there was the additional problem of most of Peter's supporting cast pretty much up and leaving the book suddenly for little or no reason. Besides Aunt May and JJJ, not many were around. Once again, although more emphasized this time, there was the sense of "Where do we go from here?"
-ASM: In Amazing Spider-Man there was a string of largely forgetable stories, including one with the Lightmaster that destroyed any possibility of him being a major bad guy. There was also some Punisher stories and Black Cat stories, that served to keep these two fan favorites in the spotlight. Immediately, the Black Cat was requested to keep coming back, the Punisher was undoubtedly a major recurring character in Spidey's life.
-PPTSS- for the first time, the second Spidey title was just as good or sometimes even better than the first. Swarm, a new Lizard/Stergon battle and Belladonna (as well as the return of the cat burglar from way back in ASM #30) served as good villians, and Peter began getting a new supporting cast.
-Grad school- Mainly an aspect of PPTSS, Peter got a new supporting cast of fellow teaching assistants, professors and other people. Although they were enjoyable, they were largely forgetable, considering the fact that I can't remember one of their names.
-Debra Whitman- With Betty married, Gwen dead and MJ gone, once again, Peter had no love life. The writers of PPTSS introduced Debra Whitman, a shy grad student who had a crush on Peter. Soon, the two were in a romantic relationship, which was kind of nice. I say 'kind of', because sometimes it was nice, and then sometimes it just felt so weird. For twenty issues or so this grew, until finally Debra's recurring fear of Spider-Man and somehow believing Peter and Spidey were one and the same drove her slightly wacky. Debra ended up being a bit loony, and had to leave the series, which is too bad, since she was a nice character to begin with. Still, I'm not complaining about seeing her go.
-It wasn't until the final 120's of ASM that we started getting quality Spidey stories again. Although a silly but fun Sandman/Hydro-Man story occured, in addition to Hydro-Man's 1st appearance, a Namor crossover and Madame Web being introduced there was little worth noting. Then came a good Vulture story, and then an exceptionally good story with Juggernaut and Spidey going at it for two issues. The story works well and shows Spidey continually thinking of various ways to get through Juggernaut, until finally beating him. It is about here that Stern and Romita Jr. took over the book and brought it back to top quality.
-Stern and Romita Jr.- The Vulture story and the Juggernaut major battle quickly made ASM a top Marvel book again, and brought a quality back to the book that some can argue was missing since #100. Next, they did a really good Cobra story, then a follow up Cobra/Hyde story, another great yarn. And then finally there was one of my favorite stories, with the Tarrantula, Will O Wisp and the Roxxon corporation. A four-partner, this story is very nicely written and drawn, but is also what I'd say is a turning point. Here marks what I would consider the end of the 70's in Spider-Man continuity. The Tarrantula, *the* bad guy of the early 70's ends up dying in the end (after becoming a giant spider) and Will O'Wisp *the* 'super-star' of the late 70's ends up finding some closure and leaving Spidey's stories for some time. After it ends with #236, there is a quick Stilt-Man story in #237, and a new era of Spider-Man begins.
Also, the appearance of the Hobgoblin, my favorite Spider-Man bad-guy occurs in #238, the next issue, and marks what I think is another new era of Spider-Man (and a damn good one). Over in PPTSS, a coinciding era was beginning, as #74 (which was the finale to the Debra Whitman saga) is followed by #75, the beginning of the Black Cat Saga of Spider-Man (with the opening parts having Doc Ock and the Owl).
[ June 22, 2004, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: Cobalt Kid ]
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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Hey Cobie, I haven't had a chance to read all these, but thanks for the hard work -- I'll definitely check in and offer opinions!
From: New York, NY | Registered: Jul 2003
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Thanks Drake! I'm glad you're reading these too, and I want to hear your opinions on all eras too.
I was on a bit of a roll yesterday, and I have a feeling I might get on another one and bring my reviews right up to MacFarlane.
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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With issue #238, one of my favorite periods of Spidey's history begins. I love the Hobgoblin Saga, which runs pretty much strait through from #238 to #288, as the mystery of the Hobgoblin serves as one of the major aspects of Spidey and Peter's life.
Further, this period is also marked by excellent characterization of almost all of Peter's supporting cast. The art by Romita Jr. is out of this world, and Stern's writing is superb. The follow up writer, Defalco (I think?) is good too, since Stern layed the ground work for the Hobgoblin, although my love for this saga may have me jaded.
There is a variety of reasons I love this period. Here they are:
-Romita Jr.- what an artist. Like his father before him, JR Jr. knew how to draw Spidey, how to draw action and how to make the readers squeel with delight.
-The sense of continuity- this is MAJOR. Right away, Stern makes sure there is a sense of continuity for long-time Spider-man readers. Things happening in Harry and Jonah's life, Peters' and the Hobgoblin's reflect a history of these characters. I'll discuss below. Also, the continuity between Amazing Spider-Man and Spectaculur Spider-Man is tighter than ever and very enjoyable. During the Hobgoblin Saga, Peter was going through another saga in PPTSS, what I call "The Black Cat Saga". The inter-weaving of the two is very enjoyable.
-The Hobgoblin- Hobgoblin is probably my favorite Spidey villian of all, because of the stories written during this time. The mystery of the Hobgoblin draws you right in, and I was left guessing everywhere the first time I read these. Further, the Hobgoblin is one of the best villians ever that gets progressively better when he fights Spider-Man, constantly evolving as he got used to fighting him. He is smart too--wise enough to blackmail people to support him, and smart enough to figure out where Norman Osbourne went wrong all those years ago. He also goes increasingly mad very subtly as the issues go by, and even seems to realize it circa #251, screaming "Osbourne was the mad one! Not me!". His hatred for Spidey consumes him and he can't fight it.
-Lance Bannon and Amy Powell- a cool little subplot, we see new members of Pete's supporting cast who pull him into a love triangle he wants nothing to do with. Lance Bannon, a jerk (but a good character for the book) becomes an important player. Later, he becomes the other prime suspect for being the Hobgoblin.
-The return of Mary Jane- Mary Jane returns to the series (in an amusing sequence with Peter getting kissed), and stays for the long hall. However, this seems to be a different MJ. She is her old fun self, and it's funny to see everyone trying to hook Pete and her up, but she seems to be a wiser and 'more there' now. The airhead Mary Jane is gone, and Aunt May makes comments that hint at her not being what she seems. This MJ is likable, and a lot of fans seemed to be won over by Stern's writing. At first, her and Peter have no relationship again, and their close friendship really warmed people back up to her.
-The return of the supporting cast- With the Hobgoblin in possession of Norman Osbourne's diaries and MJ back, the rest of the supporting cast showed up too. Harry and Liz, Betty and Ned, Flash and Sha Shan, the entire Bugle and the rest re-enter in Peter's life. Another character, Nathan Lubunsky becomes Aunt May's boyfriend and takes on the old role of Captain Stacy a la 'conscience of the series'.
-#238-239- the first Hobgoblin story is great, and we see the Goblin slowly become more comfortable with this role. Right away, it's apparent that a new nemesis for Peter is being born. The mystery of his identity is just as good, if not better, than the mystery of the original Green Goblin of old.
-#245- the next Hobgoblin story is equally as good, as we see how smart the Goblin is by forcing Lefty Donovon to test the Green Goblin formula so the Hobgoblin can ensure he won't go mad. Further, he tricks everyone into thinking he's dead, except Spidey.
-PPTSS #85- even though it's an issue of the other Spider-Man book, this Hobgoblin appearance is pivotal for the continuation of his character. Emerging from the mists with Super-strength, the Hobgoblin is forever changed, as he may now have become slightly unhinged. The readers are left wondering if he is crazy (or will be crazy), but there is no doubt he has changed. Plus, he whips Spidey pretty badly, since the Black Cat gets in his way (which is part of the ongoing Black Saga over in PPTSS).
-The Kid Who Collected Spider-Man- one of the greatest comic issues of all-time. A beautiful story that sums up Peter's life, and then in the final pages shows us how noble Peter truly is. A tear-jerking story that still leaves me breathless, and a great way to remind yourself why you love Peter Parker.
-Peter leaves college- with the Black Cat racking up huge hospital bills and Peter sure he loves her (over in PPTSS), among further problems at the Bugle due to competition with Lance and Robbie now as editor, Pete decides that he doesn't have time for college anymore. This turning point is MAJOR. For the first time ever in Spidey's history, he stops going to school. He says to himself that he thinks he needs time to see the rest of the world and see what life is like outside of school, which may accurately reflect the idea that the readers need to have Spidey move on from school too. Personally, I wish he were still there, I think it's the prime setting for him! But one thing this does do is break his confidence a little and ruin his relationship with Aunt May for a long period of time.
-Harry learns his father was the Green Goblin and Liz has a little surprise- Major things are happening with Peter's old friends. Some months earlier, we learn that Liz and Harry were married in a small ceremony and moved to Jersey, which seems kind of stupid (I mean c'mon! Peter not there at Liz and Harry's wedding?!!). But now, we get them back like the days of old. Major things happen, the first being Liz announcing that her and Harry are going to have a baby. It seems finally that someone in Pete's supporting cast is going to be happy. And then Harry learns about his father was the Green Goblin and takes it hard, until Pete finally corners him and the two talk it out. A long-standing aspect of Spider-man continuity comes into play, as Harry finally learns the terrible secret of his father.
-Jonah reveals he helped create the Scorpion- instead of being the victim of black mail by the Hobgoblin, JJJ prints his story about helping create the Scorpion, in one appears to be one of his finest moments. He steps down as Editor in Chief and Joe Robertson takes over (which puts him under all kinds of stress that makes him snap at Peter a lot).
-#249-#251- Another great Hobgoblin story that shows a huge battle between the two. Matching wits, strength, endurance and just about everything they've got, this is probably the best battle the two ever have, and may be on of Spidey's best battles ever. Starting out with a lot of small-time players around (i.e. Roderick Kingsley, JJJ, etc.) and even the Kingpin, the fight goes on for two more issues, as Spidey gives everything he has and finally beats the Hobgoblin. The Goblin however, appeas dead and only his mask is found.
-The new costume- Here is one of the major changes of all-time for Spidey. #252 marks the start of the black costume, after Secret Wars. Although I used to hate it, I can use my knowledge that he will get his old costume back eventually to let myself enjoy the costume, which is kind of cool. The alien costume was a good ongoing subplot, but his normal black costumes were equally fun, as wore them for a few years. Still, if I were a fan at the time, I'd be outraged.
-The Rose- The Rose is another cool ass villian. Like the Hobgoblin mimicking the Green Goblin, the Rose in undoutedly a tribute to the Crime Master, although instead of two issues, there will be forty to try and figure out who he is. He worked well as a crime boss, and is probably my favorite Spidey crime boss nemesis outside of the Kingpin.
-The Puma- I like Puma too, another fresh character who worked good with Spidey. Their relationship evolved enough to keep things interesting and keep the Puma likable also.
-Mary Jane learns Peter is Spider-Man- or at least, had always known. This is a great plot-twist and long overdue, and Mary Jane then reveals her child-hood history that puts her in a whole different light for the first time. After really having a long-due heart to heart with Peter, MJ emerges as an extremely likable character and welcome addition to carrying the burden of Spider-Man. At this time, it seems like MJ isn't so bad for Peter after all, and maybe them being together would be good for them.
-The Rose and Hobgoblin team up!- Like the Green Goblin and the Crime Master, this duo is an awesome pairing. Once the Hobgoblin joins the Rose, things get really interesting, and Spidey now has some serious enemies. Further, there are now enough players in New York to ensure constant conflict and drama in Spidey's life. This story also begins to show Hobby finally starting to lose it, as he beings emulating Osbourn for the first time.
There are also good scenes with Harry, as we see him dealing with conflict in the face of a long history of being called spineless by his father. And Liz has the best scenes of all, as she goes into labor (although in the Roses warehouse while it's on fire), and then has her and Harry's son Normie. For now it seems, Liz and Harry are truly happy and Harry can leave the shadow of the Goblin behind him.
For a few issues there are some forgetable stories, which coincides with the end to the Black Cat saga in PPTSS and the start of a third Spidey book, Web of Spider-Man . This marks the mid-way point for the Hobgoblin saga.
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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![[Smile]](smile.gif)
. I love the early villians, like Doc Ock, the Vulture, Kraven, and especially the Lizard and Mysterio. Mysterio just looks so cool, and the Lizard was so menacing in #5. Doc Ock was by far Spidey's nemesis, and when he took of Spidey's mask in #11, it was a great scene.
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
), I enjoy reading the story nonetheless. In the end, both Hammerhead and Doc Ock are blown to smithereens, leaving the Jackal in their wake. With Gobby and Doc Ock dead and the Kingpin missing since the 80's, the Jackal suddenly moves to the front of Spidey's rogue's gallery as the top villian. He also appears one more time, this time teaming up with the not so memoralbe Grizzley in a story that doesn't do much, but does manage to further the Spidey/Jackal War and maintain the mystery of the Jackal.![[LOL]](graemlins/lol.gif)
) showed the Tinkerer back in action and crazy.
