posted
And then what happened? I'm waiting on the next installment, pretty please.
By the way, have you watched the MTV Spider-Man 'toon? I can't figure out if I like it or not... something I just can't put my finger on.
Oh, one other thing. My almost-three-year-old was having a major conniption fit Sunday night. The only thing on any of the scads of cartoon channels that we get which I knew she would recognize was the 90's Spidey 'toon. She still kept up the tantrum for a few minutes, but I distracted her by pointing out that Spider-Man was fighting some crazy robots (Spider Slayers actually.) She started watching and after about five minutes, just as she's about to conk out for the night another Slayer pops up and in a sweet tired voice she says "It's another crazy robot, dad." Then she was out.
Once again, Spidey saves the day!
From: Douglasville, GA | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
I've caught a few episodes here and there and I like it but also feel like something isn't right about it. I thought maybe it was the weird feel to the animation and voices, it kind of reminded me of the old Maxx and Aeon Flux cartoons, which is too weird for Spidey.
And Matlock, you're the best! Next installment coming up! I've got five more planned!
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Good grief. Right now you're at the point when I was collecting Spidey and I can't believe there's been enough books since then for that many installments.
I kinda wish I had the $ to get the new set of the old, old Spidey cartoons. I remember watching them as a kid and being a little flummoxed by those wierd later episodes with mole men and aliens and whatnot but also really liking them at the same time.
From: Douglasville, GA | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
While Spidey was knee-deep in the awesome beginning to the Hobgoblin Saga in ASM, he was just as busy in PPTSS with the almost equally good Black Cat Saga. Just as in over there, thing were happening in PPTSS to keep the interest going from issue to issue and the Black Cat proved to be very likable and a breathe air (at least for a bit...)
-The Return of the Black Cat and the Doc Ock/Owl War- The Black Cat made her return right in the middle of the Doc Ock/Owl War, a great story that put Spidey right in the middle of his greatest foe and one of Daredevil's greatest foes. Doc Ock is at his best here, and the addition of the Black Cat makes this story even better. The Cat comes across as more likable than she had ever before, and she seems to be a nice change of woman for Peter. Her almost-death at the hands of Doc Ock is very dramatic, and immediately there seems to be some devotion to her from Spidey.
The finale to the story, with Spidey hunting Doc Ock while the Cat is in the hospital and then finding him and beating him, is equally as good. This was during a few weeks were the Hobgoblin had hit, the Black Cat was in the hospital, Peter dropped out of college, his supporting cast returned and now he had to find Doc Ock for a final battle. Very intense, and nicely done.
-The Black Cat and Spidey- the romance between these two always reads as surprisingly natural--it was only a matter of time before Spidey got together with another costumed person. Felicia remains likable despite her shady past, and the early issues of the romance work well.
-Cloak and Dagger- two very cool characters from this era. Cloak and Dagger emerge as two of Spidey's recurring characters in PPTSS and it's easy to see how the instantly became fan-favorites.
-Spidey reveals his identity to the Black Cat- MAJOR. This is the first time that Spidey actually reveals his identity to anyone on purpose. The *first* time. It's surprising that he's fallen for her so quick, and the outcome is even more surprising--Felicia doesn't want to see who he is, she's in love with Spider-Man, not Peter Parker. Here is where the Black Cat Saga suddenly gets weird and Felicia unlikeable. She loves Spidey but finds Pete boring, which immediately alienated this reader!
-The Black Cat's search for power and the Kingpin- The next bad move the Black Cat makes is looking for super-powers when Spidey told her not to. It's bad enough that she now has gotten in Spidey's way in fights and insulted Mary Jane, she's now turned to one of his worst enemies, the Kingpin for power. Of course, he plays her like a fiddle and her new bad luck powers seem to hurt Spidey more than anything.
-The Answer, the Kingpin, Silvermane, Cloak & Dagger, the Rose and the Black Cat- the final issues of PPTSS in the 90's are some of my all-time favorite of the book, as Spidey goes through this huge story with these characters. I am especially fond of the Answer and was glad when he was brought back, albeit briefly, in the 90's. His power was very cool, and he proved to be a major threat for a few issues. The Kingpin is also awesome, and seeing the Rose acting behind the scenes here in PPTSS, when he was a major baddie in ASM, is cool too. Silvermane is now totally different from his Silver Age self, and even 70's self, and Cloak and Dagger make the story that much more crazy and fun. And of course, the growing wedge b/t Spidey and the Cat is one of the main parts of the story too. A nice fun Spidey story, although not to fun for Peter
-Flash, Sha Shan and Betty- while Harry, Liz and the Bugle were getting major characterization in ASM, PPTSS had it's own characters getting some screen time as well. Some of it though, isn't the best kind. Flash, who had been a good guy for a decade, began having serious problems with Sha Shan and was acting like a jerk. Betty, who hardly ever saw Ned, was also having problems. And then...Betty and Flash start having an affair! Holy! What the--?!
A big change for Pete's supporting cast, as Flash and Betty are now actively cheating on their respective lovers (Betty's a married woman after all), and Pete is drawn in the middle of it, so that he knows. While Harry and Liz are securing their happiness in ASM, the rest of Spidey's cast suddenly embarks on the road to disaster that will finish them off...
-The end of the Black Cat Saga- as it seemed since the mid-80's, the Black Cat saga finally came to an end. After the final confronation with the Kingpin, and the Black Cat about ready to come clean about her powers, Peter decides to call it quits since it is painfully obvious that its not working. Naturally, it doesn't end well but it was definately time for Spidey to move on.
Although I don't like the pairing of the Black Cat and Spidey, I do love the era it occured in. I can't think of the black costume without thinking of the Hobgoblin or the Black Cat, and I still enjoy seeing the Black Cat when she appears. She definately was a growing experience for Peter after Gwen, Betty, MJ and Debra--she was quite a bit to handle. -------------
Although the Black Cat saga ended, the Hobgoblin Saga was in full effect, and only half over. Even more, a third solo Spidey title replaced Marvel Team Up, and further chronicled Spidey's adventures. Now there were even more stories...
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
Joining ASM and PPTSS, Web of Spider-Man started as the third solo-Spidey series and jumped right into the fray of things. However, while PPTSS started with a bang with cool action packed stories, Web of Spider-Man seemed to have half-good shaky stories that were mediocre at best. The first thirty issues aren't very good at all IMO, and they were largely forgettable with a few exceptions.
While ASM had the final parts of the Hobgoblin Saga and PPTSS had the Death of Jean DeWolf, Web hardly touched on any of Spidey's best villians, supporting cast members and other things to draw the reader in.
Here are a few things that I can remember:
-#1- the end of the Alien Costume?- the first issue did have a good start though, as it seemed to be the finale to the black costume saga. It's a good issue of Peter doing a lot of thinking and anaylzing his life, with good scenes with him fighting against the costume. It ends with it leaving Peter alone in a church, although we all know it didn't stay there.
-Doc Ock, the Vulture, the Hulk, etc.- some of the WoS issues did have some good stories, or at least fairly entertaining ones, as these old villians (and the Hulk) stopped by. However, since I can hardly remember them when it's apparent that my memory of Spidey is pretty damn good, that's telling you something.
-Covers- a lot of the Web covers are very good, with a very dark style that makes the black costume stand out. They're very eye-catching, and a pleasant change from Spidey's other covers. However, as the comic book world became more grim and gritty, I found myself missing the old Spidey covers something terrible...
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
I call this era "Spidey's Agony" in both a silly and serious manner. After #100, the direction of the book slowly changed, and the "Death of Jean DeWolf" emerged as a major story-line. From there on in, Spidey seemed to be stressed out beyond belief for many issues, constantly wondering why he was still Spider-Man and why so many people had to die. The stories are good (especially "the Death..."), but they often seem to get a bit depressing when you read this whole run. Good or bad though, it's obvious that Peter was in agony .
-The Death of Jean DeWolf- This may be one of Peter David's finest stories ever, and is a great, great, great Spidey story. Jean DeWolf, the likable young police captain who had been present for some time, is killed brutally by the Sin-Eater, and Spidey (and us) are outraged. The story is excellent, with great pacing and mystery, and the anguish Spidey feels always affects me when I read it. Spidey ends up beating Sin-Eater to a pulp and I find myself cheering him on, only to have Daredevil intervene and stop him, telling him he's gone too far (and making us wonder what the price of vengeance is).
All in all, a very good Spidey story. However, from here on out, Spidey is filled with anguish and agony, and the scene of Sin-Eater firing into the crowd and killing by-standers is constantly repeated in all three books.
-Secret Wars and the Puma- Secret Wars = yuck. Puma = cool! I liked the Puma in these stories, although Secret Wars II is better off forgotten. After this little two-parter, the Puma is officially not a bad guy, and his relationship with Spidey is interesting and pretty unique at the time.
-the return of the Black Cat and Sabertooth. The Black Cat returns and has an interesting reunion with Spidey. This story serves the purpose, if nothing else, to make Felicia likable again after going all nutso on Spidey at the end of their relationshp. There is also a minor sense of closure to her and Pete's relationship/animosity and then she gets to kick the living hell out of Sabertooth, who was on his way to being Marvel's big gun in these months. Two months later, and Marvel might not have allowed it. Good for Felicia!
-The importance of MJ- One of the most interesting factors is that like Aunt May and JJJ, Mary Jane suddenly became prominent in every issue of PPTSS as well as WoS. That means that like JJJ and Aunt May, MJ was now far more important to Spidey than the rest of his supporting cast, showing that there was more going on with her. While almost all of Spidey's cast was now in ASM for the final acts of the Hobgoblin Saga, MJ was now in every Spidey book, making her far more important than before.
With MJ now likable for the first time in years, this was a good thing for Peter and the readers. However, it *begged* the question of whether Pete and MJ would get together. Although she was at one time very unpopular with Spidey fans, she was now a different MJ and a likeable one at that. Could she finally be the right girl for Peter?
Up next: the final Hobgoblin Saga! MAJOR changes in Spidey's life! Gang War!
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
random thoughts on your chronology: -- The Prowler and White Tiger occupy that soft spot in my heart that any character does when you remember first seeing them as a kid and thinking "coooool!" -- I remember liking Cloak & Dagger, but it wasn't til Leonardi did that mini that I was hooked. He totally fulfilled the graphic potential that their visuals provided (and that cloak! Spawn's a rip-off, imo). -- Though I usually enjoy the Punisher more in "Daredevil" (cuz c'mon, he should really not stand a chance against Spidey), I really enjoyed the Miller Annual(?) with Doc Ock. -- I loved the Hobgoblin's early appearances! I especially remember after the first fight seeing Hobbie stagger home completely drained and amazed by Spider-Man's strength. You rarely see the villain limp home feeling like they just got the crap kicked out of them. I also loved the issue (by Romita/Jansen?) with the battle in Hobbie's battle wagon. -- The book was one of my favs around the time of the black costume. Who did the art for those, was it Frenz? -- Spectacular was definitely the secondary book. Partly because of Milgrom - I think he either drew or was in heavy handed inking phase and I thought his stuff was horrific during that period (Secret Wars II -- pure drek). They also had the Spot and while the Answer wasn't bad, his costume certainly was. -- I liked the Black Cat and thought she brought something interesting to Spidey's love-life (for once it was *Spidey's* lovelife, not Peter Parker's. Hated that new costume she briefly wore though. -- The issue where MJ discloses her tortured history was one of my fav issues of that era. -- Puma -- very cool despite the unfortunate name (c'mon, how can you not think of sneakers!?).
[ July 09, 2004, 09:06 AM: Message edited by: DrakeB3003 ]
From: New York, NY | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
So, what big changes are in store for Spidey after this next big arc? Does anyone else think there's a chance Spidey will have organic webs by the time it's over? (and they'll come out his butt!! Ok, not that...)
From: New York, NY | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Ugh, I hope not! The web-shooters are classic! They don't play up his 'genius' enough anymore, IMO. He used to think his way out of a third of his battles, with things like web-shooters and spider-tracers (another thing NEVER seen anymore).
I have a strange feeling that Harry Osbourn might be back. I say: YES PLEASE. Anyone reading my comments might find this odd, since I wish Aunt May and Norman Osbourn (and Gwen Stacy) didn't and don't come back. But (and I'll get to this in my Spidey reviews eventually, once I start them back up ), Harry is *needed* in Peter's life.
Peter needs friends besides MJ and Aunt May. Flash, who was Pete's best man!!!, and Harry should still be around, giving Peter some other friends and supporting cast. Harry's death was by far the worst of all Peter's major supporting characters, and was totally unnecessary. It was a combination of a Green Goblin rehashed death and Gwen Stacy rehashed death, with a little Professor Warren and Frederick Foswell thrown in there too when Harry realizes what he's done. Bring back Harry!
I also fear that Gwen might be coming back. Oooooh boy. Now, as I've said, Gwen is my favorite. But I'm not sure how I feel about this, especially after twenty five years of establishing MJ as the 'one' for Pete.
Then again, I could be wrong on all accounts .
More reviews soon!
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
****SPOILERS for "Sins Past" I & II******* -- Well, at least there are no clones yet. -- I really like how JMS played up the MJ/Peter Bond before driving a possible wedge into it with the Gwen letter -- I'm not sure what to think of the Big Revelation. I'm sure the missing words on that letter will show that she was actually pregnant with someone else's kids (Harry's?? Norman's). Maybe Gwen will get the Sue Dibney treatment and we'll find out she was not only pregnant, but that she had been raped by Norman in some retcon. -- The art here is very impressive and convincingly conveys the human drama of this story which is key since there are very personal issues brought up, not just a superhero slugfest.
From: New York, NY | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
God, I really, really, really hope that nothing happens to Gwen like that. The mere mention of it already has me ready to impale JMS if I hear he's thinkig about it. Gwen is my baby! She needs to be left in the Silver Age, untouched by the post-Identity Crisis comic world.
I do kind of like the revelations so far. Gwen and Peter's children? It seems pretty cool. The only problem is that Peter is still supposed to be in his early twenties, not his mid-thirties.
I do not want to find out they are Harry or Norman's children. Please no.
I'm interested, and I want to see where this goes.
And I really like the Pete/MJ scenes too, especially seeing MJ so supportive. I love how JMS very smoothly placed this in Spidey's continuity too: Gwen having her operation while Peter is fighting the Hulk in Canada (#120), and then Harry having his LSD flashback and Norman on the verge of becoming the Goblin. Having read the issues at least twenty times (as I've said), these scenes were a bit chilling to me.
I trust JMS, so I'm wondering where this is going.
(And I'll eventually restart my reviews )
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by DrakeB3004: So, what big changes are in store for Spidey after this next big arc? Does anyone else think there's a chance Spidey will have organic webs by the time it's over? (and they'll come out his butt!! Ok, not that...)
Hey! Was I right? I flipped through the latest issue and it mentioned organic webs. So are we to believe his webs just happen to come from the same place where he used to wear his webshooters? Are these webs stronger or different somehow? And does Spidey now have "enhanced sense" of some kind?
So Cobie, what'd you think of how "Sins Past" wrapped up? I actually lost interest...
From: New York, NY | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
Brainiac 5
Cobalt Kid's Spell-Checker and Pain in the Rear
posted
Get Junior back on Amazing. Now. To me, he IS the definitive Spidey artist. Ditko may created Spidey, and Senior refined the look, but Junior has drawn more issues than both. Junior's art just fits this version so well, just like Bagley is the only man for Ultimate.
-------------------- There's room for all God's creatures...right next to the mashed potatoes!
From: the Detroit multi-lab | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Drake, I have some very definite opinions on "Sins Past", and they're not good for the most part. In short:
- It totally destroyed Gwen's character. Anyone who reads through the previous three pages will see what Gwen Stacey means to me as a comic book supporting character and Peter's first love. I think it's utter shit that Gwen would ever sleep with Norman. "Attracted to his inner turmoil"...what crap! Gwen would never cheat on Peter--if anything, MJ would! And Gwen and Peter never slept together? Riiiiiight. I'm sure Harry and MJ never did either. It's been thirty years since Gwen has appeared alive (the real Gwen), so I'm sure Joe Q doesn't care what happens to her, but I felt hurt by it. Ugh.
-And the story was pretty damn boring to begin with! Slow, padded, and probably JMS's worst yet, despite the stuff about Gwen and Norman. The whole point, I'm sure, is to introduce a new 'Gwen Stacey' (her daughter) and something similar to a new Harry Osbourn (Gwen and Norman's son, torn b/t the Goblin legacy and what's right), but it dragged on forever.
-I hate that Norman is still alive, something I think was a terrible mistake. Now they've retroactively added more mistakes onto Spidey's past. Eh? I'll stick by Spidey as ever. I feel, as I go over my timeline, that the ongoing theme since the mid 80’s, has been the gradual destruction of Peter’s supporting cast, his friends, his personality, etc. This is just a further extension of this.
Brainy68- I love JR Jr.'s work, especially his Spider-Man. I personally love his Hobgoblin stuff in the early 80’s the best (possibly my most favorite of all Spider-Man eras), but his work has always been reliable. When he’s on a Spider-Man title, you can always count on one good Spider-Man comic a month.
And coming soon this thread, although not to stop any discussion: more updates on the Spider-Man chronology! We still have McFarlane, the clone saga, etc. to go through!
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: God, I really, really, really hope that nothing happens to Gwen like that. The mere mention of it already has me ready to impale JMS if I hear he's thinkig about it. Gwen is my baby! She needs to be left in the Silver Age, untouched by the post-Identity Crisis comic world.
I trust JMS, so I'm wondering where this is going.
(And I'll eventually restart my reviews )
How could my trust have been so great? I should have known...damn Marvel does it to me again!
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
Hyperpath: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic | Subscribe To Topic
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
)
