-------------------- Some people are like slinkys: not really good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when you knock them down a flight of stairs
From: Penthouse atop Levitz Hall, LMBP Plaza, Embassy Row, Legion World | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I like how they give the Byrne run its due right up there with the Lee & Kirby originals. A lot of folks agree that Byrne's run was best after L&K, but they actually said, in one phrase, "Lee and Kirby and Byrne." That speaks volumes to me about their sense of where this book is going.
And then they re-inforced that feeling by mentioning Mark Waid's run as third after those two.
I might just be tempted to start picking up FF again after many, many years.
-------------------- Chaim Mattis Keller ckeller@nyc.rr.com Legion-Reference-File Lad
From: New York, NY, USA | Registered: Nov 2003
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posted
I agree Chaim. His run is up there as a classic. It's really the only FF I actually collected month in and out. After Byrne I would read a friend's or get in trade(Waid/Ringo rocked too!)
From: Tampa | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
I really don't see where the so-called "greatness" in Waid's run comes from. He had no understanding of Doom whatsoever, and the four themselves seemed... devolved.
Mentioning Simonson as well is a good sign though. Although the CW take on Reed & Sue, especially, isn't a good sign.
-------------------- My views are my own and do not reflect those of everyone else... and I wouldn't have it any other way.
quote:Originally posted by Spellbinder: I have to admit that I'm both intrigued and frightened
My feelings exactly. Though, I have to admit, their "revamping the X-Books" frightened me a great deal more, so I'm glad that got pushed back at least.
quote:Originally posted by Reboot: I really don't see where the so-called "greatness" in Waid's run comes from. He had no understanding of Doom whatsoever, and the four themselves seemed... devolved.
Mentioning Simonson as well is a good sign though. Although the CW take on Reed & Sue, especially, isn't a good sign.
It's interesting that you say that, since Waid is the reason I started reading FF in the first place. I grabbed the TPB where Johnny was the Herald to Galactus and from there read back issues and things. I'll agree his Doom was lacking, but the team was much more of a family than when Millar was writing Civil War.
Which is where I also have to agree that I, too, am concerned. However, Millar did mention that it was important to the book to have it be all four of them and various things of that nature, so... yeah. I have hope, at least. (Far more than with JMS' run, which I found so incredibly boring. )
-------------------- Abin: You know what to do with a Cali sandwich? No but neither do Cobie and CJ! CJ: Yeah, we do. She's smiling, isn't she?
Context... who needs it?
From: Sunny Cali-- er, Planet Earth? | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Reboot, I never called Waid's run great. I agree it was a bit devolved especially Johnny. But I thought it was entertaining, well written, and Ringo drew one of the best FFs.
I should reread Simonson's run. For some reason I don't remember if I liked it or not.
From: Tampa | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
I greatly enjoyed Byrne's run on FF. I thought the art was some of his best, and the stories were really good (Sue's miscarriage was heartbreaking).
I enjoyed much of Waid's run, but I wasn't too fond of the whole "FF goes to Heaven" arc.
-------------------- Some people are like slinkys: not really good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when you knock them down a flight of stairs
From: Penthouse atop Levitz Hall, LMBP Plaza, Embassy Row, Legion World | Registered: Jul 2003
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I can't wait til there's a backlash against Millar and all the other shitty go-to writers at Marvel.
I often think the book should have been cancelled after Kirby left.
But then I remember how much I love the Simonson run (almost as much as I love his Thor and Orion runs)...
...and the Marv Wolfman/Keith Pollard/John Byrne run, which I think is very underrated; I probably like it so much because it was very heavy on the space opera and because Wolfman is one of the few writers who found a fresh approach to Dr. Doom (admittedly a great villain, but way overused) and Wolfman's future plans for Doom sounded really cool.
The Byrne writer/artist run is overrated IMO, although I like that he brought in She-Hulk to replace the Thing (he fell in love with her after guest-pencilling one of his friend Roger Stern's Avengers issues which crossed over with FF) and the issues that Jerry Ordway inked look beautiful.
And the JMS run started with such promise before it went beyond bad into toxic. Shame. And such a waste of Mike McKone's talent.
Englehart also did both some promising stuff and some awful stuff, and once again artistic talent (first John Buscema, then Keith Pollard) went largely to waste; I think if Englehart hadn't had so much interference from TPTB, he might have found his footing (even Lee & Kirby didn't hit the ground running IMO -- I think they only got really good when Joe Sinnott came aboard and the Inhumans were introduced, right about the same time.)
Still haven't read the Waid run; I haven't found any trades that collect it.
posted
I'm actually pretty excited. Millar & Hitch IMO have a lot of respect for the classic Marvel characters that they don't get credit for, and seem to understand that you need to stay true to the spirit of the series while giving the readers new ideas, concepts and characters without dwelling on the past. I'm intrigued on what they've got planned. I'm sure there will have to at least one Dr. Doom story, as all great FF runs must have, but I'm glad they won't be giving us a constant barage of old stories.
Really, FF is the series Millar was born to write given its cosmic scope and sense of anything crazy and mind-blowing can happen. He and Morrison are about the only two writers I can see doing it justice these days.
I've said this 1,000 times before on LW, but I also think Kirby and Lee's run is the greatest run ever on a comic, especially that middle run from around 'Calamity on Campus' to the 'Surfer/Doom' story. Byrne's run is equally awesome.
Personally, I'm with Reboot. Waid's run did nothing for me. I think he got them all wrong and it was flat and boring. JMS's run was one of the worst ever in the history of the FF, I'd even say worse than DeFalco's. Indeed, almost all of the FF writer's since Lee, with a handful of exceptions, have generally gotten the entire series wrong.
But I'm excited for this. And as long as Hitch can deliver the series on time, which apparently he will, this is a good thing.
Millar's run on Ultimate Fantastic Four was probably one of the best Marvel runs on a comic since 2000, and I'd say both that and his Wolverine run were far superior to Ultimate Vol #1 and #2, which I think are pretty good.
I have high hopes. This could be the best FF run during my lifetime of buying comics off the stands, since Byrne wrapped his run up when I was a wee lad, and the series has never been anything but sub-par since, though Claremont showed flashes of brillance despite himself (and Lobdell's run was cut excruciatingly short).
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Oh, let me say, art-wise, I enjoyed both Ringo and McKone. But bad or even sub-par writing kills a series for me a hundred times faster than the art would.
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Bryan Hitch is THE man these days as far as interior art, so I'm excited. I'm a little concerned about Millar, though. FF is all about respect for the tradition, so I hope he's mindful of that and doesn't turn it into Ultimates or Wanted.
But really, this is an exciting announcement!
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: Millar and Morrison are about the only two writers I can see doing it justice these days.
What about Peter David? I think he'd write a great FF (and before anyone says anything, no, I don't like everything that PAD writes -- Captain Marvel was usually too comedic and the Wonder Man mini-series was just awful.)
I don't want Morrison writing FF -- he'd turn Dr. Doom into a drug addict and have Doom destroy New York City.
quote:Originally posted by Lard Lad: Bryan Hitch is THE man these days as far as interior art
I like Hitch's art, I just wish he didn't work so often with writers I don't like. Anyone read the JLA oversized graphic novel from several years ago, Heaven's Ladder? Talk about widescreen goodness!
posted
Hm, I've never even thought of PAD on FF. At first, I'm almost hesitant, because I'd worry PAD would focus too much on internal family issues rather than the wide-screen cosmic craziness that I feel the FF should truly be. But then again, whenever someone tries to pigeon-hole PAD, he usually accepts the challenge and produces some of his best work ever, as Fallen Angel has proven. So maybe this could work.
But the only real cosmic comic I've ever seen him write is Captain Marvel, or at least that's the only one that comes to mind. I think the FF over the years has suffered tremendously on too much focus on the family aspect as based on daily life on Earth, rather than the implied, strong subtle family themes that anchor the FF in our world as they explore worlds that the mind can barely comprehend. Perhaps PAD could pull that off. Its a difficult thing to do, and I don't think many have been successful in the past.
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Cobie, PAD was handpicked by Jim Starlin to take over the writing of the very cosmic comic book Dreadstar; I seem to remember reading in another thread that you haven't read any of Dreadstar; I would actually recommend starting with PAD's issues -- 41 to 64 -- because they're better paced and have more action, and there's a plot recap on the inside front cover of every issue.
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