posted
I'm, on the whole, against censorship, but I generally like to know what I'm protesting/supporting. What occurred that was troubling? If someone could update me I'd appreciate it. Send me a personal message, if you like. Thanks.
quote:Originally posted by KryptonKid: I'm, on the whole, against censorship, but I generally like to know what I'm protesting/supporting. What occurred that was troubling? If someone could update me I'd appreciate it. Send me a personal message, if you like. Thanks.
quote:Originally posted by Ghost of Numf El: No flaming, no personal attacks. No ganging up, no clear 'victory' on either side.
Are we reading the same thread? Cause it looked like Vee took things said on that thread as personal attacks to me. KP even seemed to feel that people were ganging up on him.
Sorry if you feel that me stopping the thread to salvage one of my friendships as a personal attack on your civil liberties, but I felt the need to do so.
Opinions are like assholes...
From: San Diego, CA | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
The problem with threads of this type is that even though you try to keep things as low-key and non-intrusive as possible, there is always the possibility that people are going to be upset or hurt by comments that are made. Although I'm sure that no personal attacks were intended, I can see where a person could feel attacked by some of the comments made.
Ultimately, this is not a political discussion or debate board, and although we do sometimes go into such areas, there is always going to be the chance that threads of this type will be stopped. No one should feel attacked or feel unwelcome in this community, and when we reach that point it's time to rethink as to whether the discussion needs to stop or be allowed to continue.
I fully support Gary's decision to close that thread.
-------------------- Some people are like slinkys: not really good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when you knock them down a flight of stairs
From: Penthouse atop Levitz Hall, LMBP Plaza, Embassy Row, Legion World | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
Really after a while you know where everyone stands and that there's no way to change opinions, so continuing is pointless and just leads to trouble.
Even in a Parliament, invoking closure of debate is used when it gets to that point.
From: Canada | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
I think the closure was justified and it kept the thread from really causing someone to get hurt. Bad enough that some felt they were attacked (either side) but I'd hate to see friendships ruined over these kind of topics.
I also ask that no one use this thread to start up the discussion again. The decision has been made so please don't rehash it.
From: Utah | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I agree with everything Nightcrawler, Spellbinder, and Lightning Lad have said. It was time for the thread to be closed.
The only thing I would add is for people to please remember to be respectful toward their friends on this board, even when their lifestyles and/or opinions differ from your own.
-------------------- White. A blank page or canvas. His favorite. So... many... possibilities.
From: Birmingham, AL | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Ghost of Numf El: No flaming, no personal attacks. No ganging up, no clear 'victory' on either side.
Are we reading the same thread? Cause it looked like Vee took things said on that thread as personal attacks to me. KP even seemed to feel that people were ganging up on him.
Sorry if you feel that me stopping the thread to salvage one of my friendships as a personal attack on your civil liberties, but I felt the need to do so.
Opinions are like assholes...
But I know you know logic and that logic just doesn't flow. There's a huge differnence between a poster being personally attacked and a poster taking opposing opinions as personal attacks as has been indicated here.
Usually, in my experience, big disagreements amongst friends end in better understandings and big hug fests. Personally, I think your action prevented the logical conclusion of that thread but I feel it was also done in an insulting way to those that were attacked in Vee's last post.
The thread was begun by a poster posing a controversial opinion and ended in a way so as that person, intentionally or not, was given a forum to demonize others by taking their comments out of context without rebuttal and without the logical conclusion of common understanding.
I certainly wouldn't want to see Vee's or anybody elses (here) sensibilities hurt, but when a poster starts a thread concerning an obviously controversial subject on a forum set up for "anything under the sun" then the reader of the thread has reasonable expectations that the person starting the thread will be able to handle opposing viewpoints without getting bent out of shape.
I concur with Numf El. No one personally attacked Vee or any other poster. They attacked the opinion. I hope Vee understands that because I wouldn't want him feeling he was the target of the dissenting opinion.
Couldn't the mods avoid these harms to sensibilities by redefining the forum as "everything under the sun not remotely controversial?" It's a bit bland but hey, vanilla's a flavor too and on other topic related boards like this one, mods ban topics on politics, religion... it helps members to avoid accidently hurting sensitivities and it avoids members being accused of trying to hurt sensitivities.
We've had this one before: you're the boss but I found not what you did, but the manner in which you did it, made things worse. Mods, moderate. There was no attempt at moderation that could have brought the group together.
JMHO
[ August 11, 2006, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: Blockade Boy ]
From: East Toledo | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
[Nightcrawler] {Sorry if you feel that me stopping the thread to salvage one of my friendships as a personal attack on your civil liberties, but I felt the need to do so.}
It's not an attack on anyone's civil liberties. This Website is private property. Nightcrawler owns it. He has a perfect right to shut down anything from one thread to the whole board at any time.
That doesn't mean, though, that this does anything to support civil and interesting discussions. In fact, it's discouraging this. Many of us who were asked to respond to particular points (as I was, for example, by Lightning Lad) now cannot do so.
You can have a venue where "your friendships" are thus overly shielded, or you can have a venue where free-wheeling, civil discussion is encouraged. But you can't have both at once, and it doesn't make sense to try.
[Spellbinder] {No one should feel attacked or feel unwelcome in this community [...]}
If people here are going to take vigorous, but civil, debate as an "attack," then this isn't a discussion forum, and we shouldn't pretend that it is one. It's a feel-good forum for friends, and nothing else.
I'm not trying to be pointlessly harsh. I'm stating realities. Vigorous discussion is clearly not wanted here, it's clearly going to be cut off when it gets too heated (again, however civil), and I, for one, will conduct myself accordingly: I will not participate in threads that touch on politics, however tangentially, any more.
From: Starhaven Consulate, City of Angels | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
[Nightcrawler] {So until everyone can learn to mend their own fences and discuss things and read things without blowing them up out of context ...}
Which will never happen, on any forum -- but that's beside the point {sigh}
{No more topics on politics, religion ... or smoking.}
If this is a genuine new restriction, please state it at the top of the section page, then (and in SPHQ), so that it's plainly visible. And so that no such topics will be started from now on.
From: Starhaven Consulate, City of Angels | Registered: Jul 2003
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Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
posted
I don't see how we can reasonably enforce a ban on "controversial topics" in the long term. I do think what is needed is more vigorous moderation of these threads to monitor for misunderstandings and to prevent people's feelings from being hurt. Which is not to say, of course, that Nightcrawler himself should do this, but that perhaps we need one of the moderators (or perhaps someone newly appointed as moderator) in this forum to be specifically charged with monitoring these threads for potential problems of this sort.
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Greybird: Vigorous discussion is clearly not wanted here, it's clearly going to be cut off when it gets too heated (again, however civil)
I don't think that having one thread locked "clearly" shows any such thing. Numerous vigorous discussions have been allowed here, with either no moderator restrictions or mild ones that ask that people tone it down a little when it's getting a little crazy.
However, when a regular poster is feeling unwelcome or uncomfortable then that topic has obviously crossed a line that shouldn't be allowed. No one was punished for their opinions or for anything that was said and done. It was simply decided that this particular topic had run it's course and was best left alone. I still think that this board is one of the more open-minded and unrestrictive boards around.
As always, for anyone wishing to discuss the topic further or to respond to anyone's questions, there is always the option of PMs or email.
-------------------- Some people are like slinkys: not really good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when you knock them down a flight of stairs
From: Penthouse atop Levitz Hall, LMBP Plaza, Embassy Row, Legion World | Registered: Jul 2003
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