....would be to have her divorced from the Legion title, would you be in favor?
The Background : It's been argued that Dawnstar may never appear in the reboot Legion because of Shikari's presence. I'm not digging up the "Shikari=reboot Dawnstar" argument, but it's been said that because of the similarities between their powers, Dawnstar's chances of being rebooted as a Legionnaire are slim to none.
The Concept : So what if Dawnstar could be brought back elsewhere in the DC Universe? We're talking essentially the same character, up and down, except that she'd probably be in the present-day DCU and not a Legionnaire.
For instance, she shows up in a JLA or Teen Titans spacefaring mission, is intrigued by them and accepts their offer to join.
So how would that sit with us hardcore Legion fans, as well as certain diehard <g> Dawny fans?
Is some Dawny better than no Dawny if she's essentially the same character, portrayed the right way? Or is it Dawny in the Legion, or no Dawny at all (assuming that you're someone who would like her back, of course)?
Where do you stand?
<I'm also assuming she won't turn up in the rumored reboot Legion Academy.>
Posted by Estimate Lad on :
I'd prefer Dawnstar to turn up in the Legion but anywhere in the DCU is better than nowhere at all. I can see that after Animal Man's guest appearances in Hawkman that Dawny could quite easily turn up there for a story arc.
Posted by Fat Cramer on :
Dawnstar and Shikari could co-exist in the Legion; it could provide some fascinating storylines, character interactions and visual delights - all those wings.... However, I wouldn't expect to see it, given the pressure to include so many other characters from the past or to add new ones.
That being said, I don't know why she couldn't appear in another book - or as an occasional appearance in the Legion, a character with whom they work for specific cases. I wonder if she could carry her own mini-series; I'm thinking her of the Skinwalker detective comic - not much focus on native American (or any aboriginal) culture in comic books, although nuggets have appeared from time to time in both DC and Marvel.
Posted by Faraway Lad on :
Interestingly, my first thoughts on this were no. If Dawnstar was to turn up and remain Dawnstar it would have to be in the 31st century.
I think it is accepted amongst fans that Dawnstar can still exist in this legions universe much as she was portrayed in the pre boot. We simply have not yet met her. If she is reintroduced then there is no reason why she has to be a legion member, she could simply be a recurring supporting character in much the way Dr Gym’ll is. Alternatively as Lardy suggests she could be an academy member.
If Dawnstar was to turn up in say the 21st century DCU then unless she was time displaced, she would not be “our” Dawny. She could be a tracker from Starhaven. She could even be called Dawnstar, (after all names change only slowly, i.e. there could a Paul Smith, in 2003, 1803, and 3003 but there is no need for them to be the same person) but she would not be the legion character.
Nice topic Lardy.
Posted by Greybird on :
I'm enjoying reading this. I still have to ponder what I would like to see under this scenario ... and I'd like to see more weigh in here before I offer anything.
(Including Dean Lee, "deanlegion," just arrived at Legion World, who has his own well-turned scenario for Dawny, which I hope he'll offer in this thread soon.)
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
You know... I hate to say this, but I almost am inclined to think that Dawnstar could sustain her own series. She's certainly one of visually most striking Legionnaires (hence her inclusion in Crisis), and her powers by nature can incline a lot of really interesting plots. Set it in the 31st century, cross-over with The Legion from time to time... well, maybe...
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
If set in the present, my preference would be a book about Starhaven, not Dawny.
It grabs my nuts when they steal the history of another to fill a new character's portfolio. Just because it flys and has boobs doesn't make it Dawny. An ancestor, sure like in L.E.G.I.O.N. with Shady, but that is all I'd care to read. No Danwstar in the present for me please.
If set in the future, Dawnstar certainly would be visually appealing drawn by someone that uses detail. The character does not seem to me to have the history or following to survive many downturns in script quality. A VERY good and well knowen writer would be required I'd think.
Posted by Dev Em on :
L.E.G.I.O.N. would be the one place that I could see Dawnstar appearing. With news/rumors of Barry Kitson doing a new L.E.G.I.O.N. book soon...who knows.
Posted by DrakeB3003 on :
quote:Originally posted by Faraway Lad: If Dawnstar was to turn up in say the 21st century DCU then unless she was time displaced, she would not be “our” Dawny. She could be a tracker from Starhaven. She could even be called Dawnstar, (after all names change only slowly, i.e. there could a Paul Smith, in 2003, 1803, and 3003 but there is no need for them to be the same person) but she would not be the legion character.
Do you not consider the reboot Ferro to be "the Legion character" or does his time displacement into the 31st century negate that? I don't think any rebooted Dawnstar would be "our" Dawnstar in that they're not the same character just like any rebooted character really isn't the same. Or are you just referring to her not being "ours" as not being in the Legion book?
In terms of a rebooted Dawnstar, my priorities would be: -- Portrayed as close to the preboot (and pre TMK) as much as possible (or else why give her the name and appearance?). -- Involved in an interesting book / project -- being a member of the Legion
Someone suggested some time ago that she could be included in a rebooted Wanderers, which could be a cool alternative to being in the Legion.
Posted by Looks That Kill Lad on :
I don't think I would like Dawnstar outside of the Legion setting. Whilst I do feel that she will probably not join the Legion itself as long as Shikari is there I don't see any reason why she cannot re-appear in the book.
Posted by LARDLAD on :
quote:Originally posted by Looks That Kill Lad: I don't think I would like Dawnstar outside of the Legion setting. Whilst I do feel that she will probably not join the Legion itself as long as Shikari is there I don't see any reason why she cannot re-appear in the book.
Paul is summarizing the view a lot of the "against" votes are raising. Paul and others would be satisfied if Dawny showed up in the Legion title and made guest appearances, acknowledging the unlikelihood of her becoming a member because of the similarity to Shikari's powers.
The question is: is that good enough? Are Tenzil's fans REALLY happy that he got some time as Legion cook? Are Dirk's fans happy that he got a storyline but hasn't been seen again? Is Chuck's role as a Legion helper satisfying to those who want to see him inflate and bounce around? Do we love Condo for his handful of appearances as a reporter?
If that's good enough, then that's exactly what might happen if Dawny appears in the current Legion title. How about these scenarios:
1) Dawny's in the Legion Acadamy? Oh boy--Maybe she'll be as prominent a character as Jed Rikane or Nightwind were! And maybe she'll get a "the kids prove themselves" story in the bargain!
2) Dawny's in the Wanderers? Oh BOY---after their initial intro story, we'll see them among whomever else the creators pull out against this year's mega-villain to save the Legion's hash! And won't she look great in that splash page amid all the other 50-odd heroes charging in!!!
3) Dawny's a Legion ally running a detective agency? Yay! Maybe we'll see her a couple pages a year giving our heroes a lead!!
4) Dawny delivers the Legion's mail? Well, maybe in one big one-shot she'll foil a Fatal Five plot! But then it's back to the route!
See what I mean? Dawnstar's not likely to get a spot in the Legion, so all you have to do is look at the reboot's track record for finding a place for preboot characters.
But in a big, modern day-set title like JLA she might have a chance...maybe even be a superstar, who knows?
Dawny isn't one of my absolute faves, but I miss her nonetheless. Why not put her somewhere else in the DCU?
I mean, Dawny is one of those few characters who may work better outside the Legion. She was more an outsider, really. Wildfire's about the only one she socialized with. I can't imagine Saturn Girl, or even Chemical King, outside the Legion, but I can see Dawnstar quite easily there.
So is it that she's so inseparable from the Legion...or that you just wouldn't want to see her outside the Legion? Perhaps, you don't want to be bothered to pick up another title to see her?
Think about it....
Posted by MLLASH on :
Dawny is LEGION, whether she currently "exists" or not. I'd be aghast to see her in TEEN TITANS (she'd be killed in some insipid fashion) or JLA (where the fanboys would scream, "Why not Hawkgirl/Woman?!?" until they offed her).
The -only- other title I could see "borrowing" her properly is Kitson's upcoming L.E.G.I.O.N.
Posted by LARDLAD on :
quote:Originally posted by MLLASH: Dawny is LEGION, whether she currently "exists" or not. I'd be aghast to see her in TEEN TITANS (she'd be killed in some insipid fashion) or JLA (where the fanboys would scream, "Why not Hawkgirl/Woman?!?" until they offed her).
The -only- other title I could see "borrowing" her properly is Kitson's upcoming L.E.G.I.O.N.
I dunno...I can see your JLA argument, but she shouldn't be in the Titans, so she won't be killed off? Methinks, that's a little Donna Troy and Lilith afterburn talking! If nothing else, they'd almost be forced to kill a guy or two next time to balance out the 4 to 1 girl-to-guy death ratio they've got going (Kole, Terra, Donna & Lilith vs. only Jericho). Honestly, I think Dawny would be pretty safe.
There's also the Outsiders title to consider. As I mentioned above, Dawny certainly fits the description of an outsider.
And right now, the L.E.G.I.O.N. title is rumor and speculation as far as I know. And if it is true, well, unfortunately the odds for it succeeding are pretty slim unless they somehow give it a fan-friendly hook.
I still like the idea of her being in present-day DCU.
Posted by LARDLAD on :
Garsh...didn't think this one would die so quickly!
Well, Grey...speak now or forever hold your peace!
Posted by DrakeB3003 on :
quote:Originally posted by LARDLAD: The question is: is that good enough? Are Tenzil's fans REALLY happy that he got some time as Legion cook? Are Dirk's fans happy that he got a storyline but hasn't been seen again?...
For me, it would be. I don't really need to see her again at all, personally. But I'd be slightly indignant and would feel bad for her fans if she turned up and was rebooted as some crappy version of what she was. There's no reason to drastically alter a character if you're going to reboot them cuz they gotta know it's gonna lead to unhappy people. You might as well make up someone new (which is what Shikari is).
Posted by Greybird on :
Well, I wanted to at least wait for one full page of replies before responding. And as it happens, this begins a new page. I've been concerned in the DCMBs past that my own enthusiasm for Dawny has (wordily) trampled on what others say about the character.
[LardLad] {[...] So what if Dawnstar could be brought back elsewhere in the DC Universe? We're talking essentially the same character, up and down, except that she'd probably be in the present-day DCU and not a Legionnaire. }
In the present-day DCU, no, I don't see it. What would not be present is her context, the place that created and shaped her: Starhaven, very clearly -- if in a fragmented way, as its details were told -- an Earth settlement.
Dawnstar was both of Earth, in a distant way, and yet clearly apart from Earth, and that made for one notable strand of her outlook. She didn't have to accept everything that was given to her about how the Legion, a largely Earth-shaped institution, was set up and justified. At times, she was dubious of all aspects of the U.P. as an Earth-centered civilization. (See her comments in "LSH" v3 n28 and Annual 4, especially.)
Others in the Legion could share that detachment, of course, in not being from Earth. Yet few have remarked on Starhaven being almost the only pre-boot Earth colony of the Legion era, at least outside the Sol system.
Others came from planets that -- in the great, needed illogic of serial storytelling for us humans -- developed humanoids without having any ties to Earth life. Dawnstar was really the only Legionnaire who could have a great degree of ironic detachment. She didn't have to be attached to the foibles of Earth -- it wasn't the planet that shaped her. And yet the irony came from her genetics and ancient cultural heritage, both however re-engineered, having begun on Earth.
All of this creative tension or layering would be lost in the present era, within DC fiction, or even outside it -- where we have no such colonies. (Damn those NASA bureaucrats, I say.) Dawny's aspect of being on the outside in some ways, but not in others, among those on Earth wouldn't be possible.
It'd be a subtle loss, but still a loss. She'd simply be a wholly alien visitor, merely of a different kind ... unless she was made into a current-day genetic creation. And that would have its own new set of strengths and weaknesses, as we've seen with Kon-el/Superboy.
{ For instance, she shows up in a JLA or Teen Titans spacefaring mission, is intrigued by them and accepts their offer to join. }
If she did, and was in substantially her full, winged pre-boot form, it would take too much explanation. She'd be, essentially, an Earth variant with no ties to Earth.
That tactic was frequent in the Golden Age, at least possible in the Silver Age, but wouldn't pass muster with comics readers today, raised from an early age on more realistic SF. This isn't involving a "Star Wars" parallel galaxy "far, far away," but our own.
In another irony, this would make a Shikari showing up in the present day much more acceptable, and less in need of extensive explanation -- the (obligatory) breasts on an insectoid-humanoid woman notwithstanding.
{[...] Is some Dawny better than no Dawny if she's essentially the same character, portrayed the right way? Or is it Dawny in the Legion, or no Dawny at all? }
I don't see her being from the present day as even being Dawny, in many essentials. It's Dawny in the Legion's time and setting, at least, if the character as previously written is to make much sense. She doesn't have to be in the Legion directly, but she'd have to be a part of that far different culture.
With all of this being said, I contend that a character quite similar to Dawny could nonetheless be compelling, and could be a vivid addition to those interacting with the JLA or Titans. Dean Lee, who hasn't weighed in here yet, imagined and described an extensive scenario about her having come to Earth as an intrigued long-range observer, adopting the cultural trappings of the Indians of the northwest U.S./Canadian coast, and having some provocative heroic encounters with Superman.
I would dearly love to see such stories. (I hope Dean will one day at least sketch one, as I've urged him to do.) They would be fascinating and provocative. They also, though, to me, wouldn't really involve "Dawnstar." Not in the sense of the character that we've already seen.
Posted by Greybird on :
Shorter responses to others ... and my periodic apology goes out for quote-and-reply, which isn't the best way to respond, but better avoids missing the nuances of what others say.
[Estimate Lad] {[...] I can see that after Animal Man's guest appearances in Hawkman, Dawny could quite easily turn up there for a story arc. }
She could, and I'd love seeing her -- but some of her distinctiveness would be lost in other ways. Most of all, in her wings and flight being inherent qualities and abilities, not ones that the two Hawks (apart from the drive to reincarnate) are able to literally put on and take off as needed. The new "Hawkman" and "JSA" titles have tried to get away from any sense of genetics tying those flight-and-fight abilities to their focus characters. Dawnstar's presence would be a step back from this, I fear, from those writers' perspectives.
[Fat Cramer] {[...] I don't know why she couldn't appear in another book -- or as an occasional appearance in the Legion, a character with whom they work for specific cases. }
I've long suggested that Dawny and Kari would do well as a team of complementary-talented investigators, on call and frequently working with the Legion. (Even with the name "Celestial Investigations Ltd", to allude to your thread on privatizing Legion matters -- this would be a start.) The tracker and the pathfinder, respectively. Shikari would have to be more verbally adept than she's been shown thus far, I'd say, but it could work. A spin-off title or special issues would also be feasible with such a combination of winged ladies.
[Faraway Lad] {[...] We simply have not yet met her. }
That's what I'm pinning my own hopes on, with her someday being at least shown in the current setting. DnA say they want more characters on the periphery, but they haven't yet followed through much at all. I suspect this will wait -- despite their professing an admiration for Dawnstar -- for a successor writer or writing team.
[EDE] { You know ... I hate to say this, [...]}
I'm curious -- why do you say that? Are you generally not in favor of such individual spotlights? Or is it from Dawny not being among those you'd rather see in one of them?
{[...] but I almost am inclined to think that Dawnstar could sustain her own series. She's certainly one of visually most striking Legionnaires (hence her inclusion in Crisis), and her powers by nature can incline a lot of really interesting plots. }
She could, indeed, fuel at least a mini-series, if the writers were imaginative for her. (I'll second Blockade Boy on this being essential.) Personally as well as professionally, that is. Levitz tried, often heroically, and I'm the last to fault him, but even he fell back on extending the relationship she had with Wildfire beyond what they could sustain, until it (literally, in some ways) burned out. A similar relationship at the core of another series would need many more variations and much more expressed passion between her and others, Significant and not.
As for "Crisis," she was visually striking, indeed -- even when in Superman's arms -- but I'd like to think that her unique talents were part of what made Harbinger bring her to that setting. Much of the plot involved simply finding what was going on in the first place.
[Blockade Boy (seconded by DevEm)] {[...] An ancestor, sure, like in L.E.G.I.O.N. with Shady, but that is all I'd care to read. }
Even with my having read little of what was also called "Leg Iron," I could easily imagine that working. Perhaps, in those far earlier (as against the LSH) genetic-reworking days, with an ancestor having actual flight-in-air-limited wings and related abilities, such as superpowered eyesight.
Posted by Greybird on :
[DrakeB3003] {[...] Someone suggested some time ago that she could be included in a rebooted Wanderers, which could be a cool alternative to being in the Legion. }
It could work, and quite vividly, if handled with well-developed conflict. The origin would have to be more cool, I'd say, than what they cooked up for the Wanderers on the second go-round -- that of their being clones of the originals, inherently flawed by that fate, and seeing either answers or revenge. On their first appearance, it was left vague. Neither situation would do a reappearing Dawnstar justice.
[Lardy, disdaining the Academy and other scenarios] {[...] Dawnstar's not likely to get a spot in the Legion, so all you have to do is look at the reboot's track record for finding a place for preboot characters. }
You have a point, and the imagination hasn't been as fertile by any means, though DnA have shown more life than earlier reboot writers. Yet I don't seen that as being a limitation specific to the Legion. Few books manage character-building interludes or side plots at all, in the sense and scope that Levitz did. Unless the book is nearly all characterization, as has often been true with Alan Moore's "Promethea."
{[...] I mean, Dawny is one of those few characters who may work better outside the Legion. She was more an outsider, really. }
Her personality would work as more of a semi-detached loner, yes. That's usable with many teams, contrasting or joining in. Outside of the Legion, though, or pulled into the 21st Century, she'd lose the subtler dimensions I mention earlier, and it wouldn't be "the same" Dawnstar.
{[...] Perhaps, you don't want to be bothered to pick up another title to see her? }
Others might not, but as for me {g} ... I think you may be overestimating how many will pursue outside appearances. More would be likely to get a title that pairs Dawny with one other Legionnaire. Exponentially more, if two or three others joined her. (I was disappointed that so few in the Legion were brought in, beyond the founders, for contrast in the '80s four-parter "Legionnaires 3.")
[MLLASH] {[...] I'd be aghast to see her in TEEN TITANS (she'd be killed in some insipid fashion) or JLA (where the fanboys would scream, "Why not Hawkgirl/Woman?!?" until they offed her). }
Although LardLad wonders about your "afterburn" (just a tad raw in imagery, Lardy amigo), I entirely agree with your reservations. Death has become too casual, and this includes DnA and "Legion Lost." I also fear that the Women in Refrigerators syndrome is wholly underrated, with years having passed since this (unadmitted) misogyny has been identified in comics.
Perhaps the re-cast "Titans" are going to be less casual about heroes' deaths, from the vibrations I get in the first issue of the new series. I hope so. For the sake of "The Legion," as well.
Posted by LARDLAD on :
[Greybird] {In the present-day DCU, no, I don't see it. What would not be present is her context, the place that created and shaped her: Starhaven, very clearly -- if in a fragmented way, as its details were told -- an Earth settlement.}
Grey, this seems to be the crux of why yo would object to Dawny becoming part of the modern DCU. Well, it seems pretty easily fixable in one of two ways:
1) Dawny as a time traveller---if Star Trek can be used as an example, apparently there are temporal anomalies all OVER the damn place in outer space, many of which lead right to modern-day Earth! Dawny falls victim to one of these ever-present menaces, and here we go.
So Dawny is still from Starhaven, which could still essentially be what we've come to know from the preboot. Therefore Dawny and her background are intact, but she's a (to use a terrible analogy) fish out of water. Essentially, she can still be the character we all remember.
or...
2) We reboot Starhaven some...instead of it having been an Earth colony, a tribe of Native Americans (possibly pre-1492) are abducted by aliens and allowed to settle on their own world as an experiment. Well, over the next 500 years, the culture on that world (named "Starhaven") grows. They gain their independence and, with the alien remnant technology, become a superiorly advanced planet (compared to Earth) that nonetheless still holds the Native American values and respect for nature. And they get the wings too, either through alien experimentation or some other factor.
It wouldn't exactly be the Starhaven we remember, but it could be pretty damn close. And it would logically explain the things that wouldn't work for you because Starhaven belonged in the future.
So would either of those scenarios change your opinion, Grey? Feel free to critique both as you see fit.
Posted by LARDLAD on :
[Greybird] {Although LardLad wonders about your "afterburn" (just a tad raw in imagery, Lardy amigo)...}
All I meant to imply was how fans felt "burned" by the death of these longtime characters. Did Donna literally get burned to death somehow? I didn't pick up "Graduation Day", so I have no idea how she was killed off.
Posted by DrakeB3003 on :
quote:Originally posted by LARDLAD: Did Donna literally get burned to death somehow? I didn't pick up "Graduation Day", so I have no idea how she was killed off.
She died while fighting a Superman robot. The narration was all about her being a warrior who runs toward the battle rather than shirk from it. She saves Nightwing and Arsenal from it, rips off its arm and starts to pummel it (its on the ground and she's kinda straddling it), but then it nails her with eye-beams that go straight through her chest.
However, she's seen "reborn" somehow (I don't know enough about her new origin where she apparently is reincarnated all the time) looking exactly the same on some alien world about to join another battle.
Posted by Greybird on :
Lardy suggested "Dawny as a time traveler." I've grown dubious of time travel, though, and it's from the same reason as I noted about her not having Starhaven as her context.
If she, or any character, is thus ripped out of her setting and civilization, the story thread then tends to come from one of two sources. Either "getting back home" rules the hero's concerns, or the comic and tragic contrasts of a "fish out of water" rule what's shown about the hero.
As an occasional bit of spice, that works, if it's made halfway plausible or is glossed over with pseudo-science or "magic" of sufficient skill. As a constant story premise, though? I'd say the original example of Superboy being in the Legion is enough to show its weaknesses .. in this case, by not using either of those strains, very often or very well.
Kal made the 1,010-year commute constantly, and yet it was surprising how little was made of the opportunity. Didn't the contrast of 2900s ultra-tech and 1950s pre-electronics ever bother him? Wasn't he tempted to bring some of the boons of the 30th Century -- such as cures for cancer -- back with him? Would he have had enough common reference points -- due to his low-tech life experiences -- to even be that interesting for the Legionnaires to talk with? (Historical fascination excepted, on both sides.)
All such conflicts and anachronisms were simply discarded, it seemed, for nearly all his time with the Legion. The kid transplanted himself a millennium hence, had some adventures, reversed his travel ... and that was that.
When it made so little point with Superboy, I can't see it making much point with Dawnstar. And especially not on a permanent basis, where the yearning for home, family, and a comprehensible advanced culture would have become overpowering.
As for Lardy's "rebooting Starhaven" scenario, it's entertaining and even highly plausible, as a contrast to the present DC Earth. In fact, that ends up elaborating on what Dean Lee separately suggested for her, in a highly imaginative manner.
I like it enough that I'd be ravenous about the prospects of seeing it. What it really wouldn't be, though, is a tale of "Dawnstar." In this case, she'd be pulled away from being a Legionnaire, with all the interplays of teamwork, of loyalty, of cohesion and contrast with others. This Dawny would be fascinating, heroic, and compelling. Yet she still wouldn't be the same.
Don't get me wrong, by the way. I'd rather see her being matched against the present-day DCU in some way -- assuming that she had nearly the same set of personal qualities -- than not see her again at all. Subtle strengths and textures would be lost, though. Part of me would rejoice, and part of me would be dismayed.
Posted by DrakeB3003 on :
quote:Originally posted by Greybird: When it made so little point with Superboy, I can't see it making much point with Dawnstar. And especially not on a permanent basis, where the yearning for home, family, and a comprehensible advanced culture would have become overpowering.
What do you think of Ferro as a time traveler then? He had no connections to this time except his bro (who's now dead) and his mom (who disowned him). Him being out of time hasn't really come up at all after the initial "gee whiz" of it.
Come to think of it, does Ferro know interlac at this point, does he have a telepathic plug or did Imra give him a "crash course?" I don't remember if they said.
Posted by Greybird on :
Ferro -- whom I suspect has a telepathic plug -- probably has fewer reasons to yearn for the past, but it was still his culture and a familiar set of surroundings. I'd think he would have some sleepless nights, wondering if he'd ever adjust to the new world he chose to enter, and pondering whether he'd ever want to go back.
Time travel rarely falls apart quite as much in its storytelling when it's a one-way forward ratchet. That goes back at least to "Rip Van Winkle," very much a story from the Enlightenment, where progress was assumed to be positive -- or at least benign.
It still requires much more apparatus to tell properly, though ... if the character's difficulties are touched on at all, rather than largely assumed away, as seems to have happened with Ferro.
Posted by LARDLAD on :
I guess, Grey, that if Dawnstar comes back, in or out of the Legion, you can probably expect that she won't be your Dawny. All rebooted Legion characters have from mild to pretty large differences from their preboot originals. Dawny may return sans Starhaven altogether. She may return simply as a mutant Native American from Earth. Or perhaps her personality will be quite different from the old portrayal, a la Andromeda.
But essentially, my topic postulates that the character will be essentially the same (realistically leaning largely toward the "mild" part of the spectrum in the differences from preboot scale).
So the bottom line is if the character is essentially the same (that would imply that Starhaven is still in place), would you ultimately be "for" or "against" her returning in the modern DCU? I would say, from your latest response, that the answer would be "yes"...though with some reservations.
Posted by DrakeB3003 on :
Speaking as a big WILDFIRE fan, I can totally accept him the way DnA has treated him regardless of the new shitty origin. I've seen others who feel differently, however. I don't know if that makes them bigger fans of the preboot version or if I'm a bigger fan for overlooking the new origin and simply being glad that he's back with basically the same personality, but I know I'm never going to see the same Wildfire as he was preboot.
Maybe the fact that he was totally absent for most of TMK and when he did come back, he was altered in some other grotesque way alters my feelings, but my enjoyment doesn't hinge so greatly on his past as it does his present.
Posted by Greybird on :
If you're responding to your own genuine passions, Drake, that's all the "bigger" fan one needs to be, methinks. Comparing sizes of parts of one's mental anatomy with others gets me even more pissed off than doing so for one's physical anatomy. And, frankly, I feel about both as William Holden said in "Network" about the latter: "I stopped doing that back in the second grade."
Lardy asked for my bottom line on the return of a Dawnstar with no more than mild differences from her classic qualities. I would still resist describing her being without either Starhaven or the Legion as being a "mild" difference, but otherwise -- yes, of course I'd want to see her, even with losing one of both of those elements.
I'd have reservations, as Lardy says. The past is never "brought back" perfectly, and you can only even try to do that in art in the first place, not "real life." Still, Dawny is simply too beautiful, and, I'd say, too resonant, to lose forever from these ongoing stories.
Posted by DrakeB3003 on :
quote:Originally posted by Greybird: If you're responding to your own genuine passions, Drake, that's all the "bigger" fan one needs to be, methinks.
Right -- I'm just speaking about my own case about how I feel about Wildfire coming back altered from what he was.