This posting matters more to those using LegionPics, and who are availing themselves of its relatively spacious area for messages with art attachments. Those who are infrequent users or who are interested in checking it out -- on my recommendation and others' -- should know at once about this situation. I posted this on LegionPics this evening.
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LegionPics is now "age-restricted," thanks to John Franks being an absent owner. Because he hasn't bothered to be around here, to remove the porn spams (or appoint someone to help, or both), this Group has now been classified as "adult."
You will now soon receive the warning screen about age restriction, as I just did, and you'll get it after every time you log in to Groups:
"You've reached an Age-Restricted Area of Yahoo! Groups.
"This area contains material of a mature and adult nature that may not be suitable for younger users. You must be over the age of 18 to access this area of Yahoo! Groups.
"By accessing this area, you may find material that is of an adult nature. If you are under the age of 18 or do not wish to continue, click below to return to Yahoo! Groups. By clicking the 'I Accept' button below, you certify that you are at least 18 years of age and understand the conditions of use."
Is this going to stop any current user of this Group? Nope. What it's going to do is entirely MISREPRESENT this Group to prospective new members, and to the parents (assuming that they're attentive) of any younger users of Yahoo!. It also will bar such younger users from accessing LegionPics, if the parents have turned on the available age-restriction tools of a "Family Account."
And why did this happen? Because one or more users of this Group or list complained to Yahoo!, that's why. And I don't blame them one bit. Yahoo! is not at all pro-active, looking itself for such "adult" material -- it's reactive, responding to complaints.
It was enough that a complaint came in, a Yahoo! staffer checked the Group, untouched porn posts / files / links (we've had all three) were left in plain sight over many months, and the age restriction was thus slapped on this Group.
That is what happens when a moderator doesn't give two shits about what happens to his own Group, and doesn't answer requests for him to care about it enough to show up and take out the garbage.
I'm sorry, Steve Lightle, but this is the last straw. Yahoo!, from all reports I've seen, NEVER removes the "adult" designation once it has been applied. We are going to have others receive the entirely wrong impression of Legion fans, and of "The Legion" as a published title, if we continue to use this Group.
We may also finally incur the attention of DC's lawyers, who are far more likely to demand the removal of any material that -they- see as infringing when they encounter it in an "adult" Group, whether it merits that label or not. They have been less thorough, by far, than the RIAA, but it has happened in spasms, and LegionPics is now FAR higher on its target list the next time they get around to it.
I know most won't choose to make a change, and there's no one place to go -- a new Group (with 32 MB storage instead of 512 MB), or LSH-pics (ditto), or some other service. People will choose many alternatives. The point is that, I would contend, it's finally time to start looking into doing so.
LegionPics now is irreparably damaged, especially for newcomers. And even if John Franks returns to clean up some of the abuse, which I doubt now he ever will do, that damage will remain.
Posted by DrakeB3003 on :
Maybe it was that thread about Supergirl's panties ...
At least I can now start my "Legionnaires doin' each other" series of drawings!
But seriously, it's a shame this is the result of the moderator's innatentiveness.
Posted by MLLASH on :
All I know is that I've been booted out of Dudes Off Campus and my Hairy Legged Dudes Groups!!!
Is this because YAHOO deleted the groups or because I've been bouncing e-mails?!?!!?
YAHOO is on a "Adult Group Termination" frenzy lately... it's not unthinkable that this LEGION picture group could actually be deleted by YAHOO at some point in the future now that it is labeled ADULTS ONLY or whatever...
Posted by Thriftshop Debutante on :
Well, how bouncy were the emails?
Posted by Fat Cramer on :
Why not take a lesson from Scott & Gary and start another LegionPics? With several mods of course. Would anything prevent you from copying over some/all of the posts? (I mean in terms of ownership, not practical/time/space considerations.)
Posted by Greybird on :
Mike, if you're still in contact with other Groups you subscribe to, you're probably not bouncing e-mails ... unless those two Groups use some e-mail address of yours that the others don't. Check "My Groups" and then "Email Preferences," that will tell you about any bouncing.
Either Yahoo! has deleted the Groups -- and it's never with any warning -- or they were temporarily unavailable while a database update was being made, and they'll be there when you access Groups again.
And, yes, being labeled "adult" vastly increases the chances of LegionPics being deleted. Yahoo! has been removing adult Groups lately -- yet not from a new Puritanism, but due to cost. Yahoo! can't manage to sell ads, it appears, for any such "adult" space, and that obviously makes them lose money.
Beyond that, Groups will soon move to charging for "premium services," and they've admitted it's being planned, but no one knows exactly when the changeover will be made. From all hints thus far, anything over 32 MB of space for messages and attachments (LegionPics now has, and nearly fills, 512 MB) will likely incur a charge.
"Adult" Groups have no ads, and are thus unlikely to even get that 32 MB for free. They'll either pay for all their space or be deleted, once this change is made.
Posted by Greybird on :
[Fat Cramer] { Why not take a lesson from Scott & Gary and start another LegionPics? With several mods of course. }
Mike Grabois already did so (with several mods), after a brouhaha in LegionPics over a year ago. Most Legion fan artists post to LegionPics and to Mike's LSH-pics.
The newer Group, though, has Yahoo's more recent limit of 32 MB for messages and attachments. That means it only has archives going back to March 2003, despite being around since March 2002 -- the first year of postings has been deleted by Yahoo!.
It's had many postings of new fan material, but few of past published material or from current pro artists. LegionPics has about 740 members (well, as of tonight, and it's unlikely to last), LSH-pics about one-third as many.
Yet I've rejoined LSH-pics, as Mike and associates at least keep out the spammers and porn-posters. Steve Lightle urged that we focus on LegionPics, and until this latest mess, I agreed with him.
{ Would anything prevent you from copying over some/all of the posts? (I mean in terms of ownership, not practical/time/space considerations.) }
Nothing to speak of in terms of ownership, but the difficulties are practical, in terms of sheer volume and of making them accessible. They'd be in vast archive files.
(What was left, that is -- because John Franks, in the last stupid move he made when he was around, deleted every message from the first two years that didn't have attached art. Many fine conversations, including with the late Dannell Lites, were thus lost.)
What couldn't easily be transferred at all would be either the variety of art -- at 20 MB of "Files" space, there's just no real room -- or the community of the existing members. Some would make the move, certainly. Many would also be lost.
[ July 25, 2003, 05:57 AM: Message edited by: Greybird ]
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Its been my experience in the past with Yahoo that they do sell ad space to the Adult groups and it is of an adult nature. At one time there was a glitch in their system and adult ads were popping up in at least three of the groups I'm in that are moderated to keep that kind of thing out. But the was after they went to having ads between messages and attached to all messages and I haven't seen it in awhile.
I have been considering, since this started at LegionPics, starting another website. LegionPics.com is available and I can easily get another 200MB account from my provider with unlimited bandwidth. The one thing stopping me from doing so is the convenience of which you can post an image to the groups. It would be vastly different for a new website. But, to me, it is better than trying to replace one group with 16 (what it would take to get the same amount of storage space LegionPics now has) and then there is the premium service Grey has mentioned.
So since a number of us regulars here are also regulars at LegionPics I'm going to ask your opinion. Would it be worth it to start a new site dedicated to Legion images? I know we cannot have all we have available now but we could showcase some of the older stuff and have plenty of room for new work as it comes along.
Posted by Princess Crujectra on :
quote:Originally posted by MLLASH: All I know is that I've been booted out of Dudes Off Campus and my Hairy Legged Dudes Groups!!!
Is this because YAHOO deleted the groups or because I've been bouncing e-mails?!?!!?
Well, I know that some group moderators will bump someone that repeatedly bounces emails. Can you access the front page of those groups, or can you not access them at all?
As for LegionPics, well, that's what happens when you start a group and then don't keep an eye on things. I've seen many a Yahoo group get bombarded by spam due to lack of control. I guess spam is just about everywhere nowadays.
To be honest, though, I've barely been to LegionPics in over a year, since the mass exodus last year (or the year before... whenever it was). I wasn't too impressed with the owner then, and really more or less cut my ties there, although I have returned once or twice just to see how things were going. In all fairness, though, I don't get to LSH-Pics very often nowadays, either. Regular message boards have been keeping me too busy lately. About the only Yahoo Group I have time for is LMBP Posted by deanlegion on :
I'm a regular at both LegionPics and lsh-pics and I find this whole thing extremely frustrating. LegionPics is the "mother" of Legion yahoo groups as far as I'm concerned, because of the sheer number and diversity of members and the constant supply of interesting Legion material. The owner of the group has done a terrible job, which has garnered many consequences. lsh-pics has a smaller, yet wonderful membership, I really like it there a lot. There is material at lsh-pics that you can't find at LegionPics, and vice versa. This is why I participate at both (after a break from LegionPics).
I will stay with both groups as long as things go well. I think this "adult" classification for LegionPics is a shame, though. So preventable. For what it's worth, I cross-post almost everything I draw to LegionPics, lsh-pics, ArtPost and LMBP, and my own group, dreamgirlnura. I like yahoogroups a lot, because I can easily post images there. I'd do it here if it was easier.
Posted by SteveLightle on :
Subscribe: LegionUP-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
United Planets representing a United Legion Fandom
This new group is intended for all Legion fans, artists, readers, specifically those who might otherwise be lost during unfortunate transitions.
As a long time member of LegionPics, I have a great admiration for the contributers and their activities here. I would suggest that those who helped make LegionPics the legendary Legion group that it is, should also join LegionUP, to ensure that the experience that started on Jul 26, 2000 should continue.
Don't drop out ... Join the United Planets.
Seeking a limited number of experienced moderators.
Posted by Greybird on :
A bump and too-long-belated response to Scott's offer.
Steve Lightle's LegionUP is now operating, and has gathered nearly 40 members, though it doesn't have much direction as yet. Glen Cadigan and I are moderators along with Steve.
[Lightning Lad] { It's been my experience in the past with Yahoo that they do sell ad space to the Adult groups and it is of an adult nature. [...]}
I had gathered that they did this, but that they got complaints about glitches -- as you said -- and about users running across such Groups when a "Family Account" and its controls were not in effect. So much so that they've dropped ads in such Groups -- I've seen it in joining three -- until they decide how to change its structure.
{ I have been considering, since this started at LegionPics, starting another website. LegionPics.com is available and I can easily get another 200MB account from my provider with unlimited bandwidth. }
You're utterly generous to bring this up, Scott, and it's an entirely worthwhile idea. I fear that you'd be spreading yourself thin, and your own worthwhile Lightning Lad site deserves your attention, as well. We can enlist others to help with this one.
Other possibilities exist, such as a provider with 500 MB of space for $7.77 a month and high (not unlimited) bandwidth, PowWeb.com. I'll check that one out again. ... Oh, and thanks for looking up that domain name.
{[...] it is better than trying to replace one group with 16 (what it would take to get the same amount of storage space LegionPics now has) and then there is the premium service Grey has mentioned. }
Yes, Yahoo!'s service is still in too much potential flux. Including whether or not Group owners will be able to ask for "micropayments" from those using a Group, to pay for extra storage, as was floated as a possibility. LegionUP only has the 32 MB, and that'll fill fast.
An independent image site, as cheap in cost as possible, is probably the best route.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Greybird: A bump and too-long-belated response to Scott's offer.
Thanks. I was beginning to think no one cared.
quote:Originally posted by Greybird: Steve Lightle's LegionUP is now operating, and has gathered nearly 40 members, though it doesn't have much direction as yet. Glen Cadigan and I are moderators along with Steve.
Glad to hear you are moderating there Grey. I had thought of volunteering but you guys keep me busy enough.
[Lightning Lad]
{ I have been considering, since this started at LegionPics, starting another website. LegionPics.com is available and I can easily get another 200MB account from my provider with unlimited bandwidth. }
quote:Originally posted by Greybird: You're utterly generous to bring this up, Scott, and it's an entirely worthwhile idea. I fear that you'd be spreading yourself thin, and your own worthwhile Lightning Lad site deserves your attention, as well. We can enlist others to help with this one.
Other possibilities exist, such as a provider with 500 MB of space for $7.77 a month and high (not unlimited) bandwidth, PowWeb.com. I'll check that one out again. ... Oh, and thanks for looking up that domain name.
First, thanks for thinking LLL is worthwhile. It has suffered with the creation of this board but I will get back to updating soon. There has been quite a bit of info, of the confirmed kind, that I need to get up there.
Secondly, my offer still stands to help start a site. For my 200MB it will be considerably cheap, less than $4 a month, which I have no problem in picking up. I've always thought we needed another accessible site like Mirror's Mirror for Legion art. Please let me know what your plans are as I can register the LegionPics name for free but wouldn't want to 'steal' it from you if you want to do so. Maybe we can get both LegionPics.com and LegionPics.net. Corner the market as they say.
[Edit Note]
Its too early and I always forget something posting from work.
If I go through with another site I'll enlist the help of someone here (possible Dean Lee if he's interested) in helping catalog the art available and also ask for any volunteers with net experience for designing the site as well as updating. I wouldn't even supose for a second that this is a task I could take on by myself.
[ July 30, 2003, 06:17 AM: Message edited by: Lightning Lad ]
Posted by deanlegion on :
Hi guys! I'd love to be involved in archiving another Legion gallery-style website! When I was involved with the "mirror" site, it was my goal to create as complete an archive as possible of Legion art. JD had a great start going, and I began to fill in the empty spaces. He ran out of time to deal with it. I think the best thing I did there was to organize the publishing history by eras, and create exhibits for each artist within each era. I liked the way there seemed to be a sort of splash image for each artist, and then a roll call of each Legionnaire (and for some, supporting cast and some villains). I'd like to do that again, and if possible, feature EVERY Legion artist from EVERY era.... A lofty goal! In order to streamline a bit, I think it'd be cool to do away with the character exhibits, although, it was cool that you could go to the say, Dream Girl page and see a variety of different depictions of her side by side. The gallery was (is) huge!
Anyway, let me know what comes of this. I just unsubscribed from LegionPics. I'm still at LSH-Pics and LegionUP as well as ArtPost and dreamgirlnura. Oh, have I mentioned lately that I love it here, and have taken advice on free image hosting so I can post things here? Cool! Posted by Greybird on :
I'm glad to see Dean's offer of help on archiving. I'd also like to lend a hand. We need some kind of "edited" and organized gallery for such art.
Scott, we have the first step, if you can obtain the Webspace, as you've so generously offered. As far as I'm concerned, you're welcome to go ahead and obtain LegionPics.com or LegionPics.net ... perhaps .net, to parallel the name of this site. Did you say that you could register the domain at no additional cost? (Or am I thinking of the renewal on this site's domain?)
Another step, for history and variety, is to store what remains in the LegionPics Group message and Files archives. Perhaps with some resizing, to reduce the larger files to a reasonable maximum, such as 150 KB each.
I've written one last time to John Franks, begging him to appoint any responsible party from the Group membership -- and I volunteered, as well -- to be owner, or at least fully-enabled moderator. That mail isn't being returned, so I'll give him a week to be decent enough to reply.
Then, unless he's responded, I'll try to enlist people to help me in saving what's at LegionPics under consistent file names, time permitting.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
I'll ask my provider today about getting another site up. And the registration for LegionPics.net is supposed to be free. He offers it with each site and since I haven't had to take advantage of that part yet for my first two sites I don't see an issue here.
I'm also going to go through this weekend and get as much archived as I can. I posted as such to the group last night after the 5th or so spam mail I received. My only problem is I have a dial up at home and since the designation of LegionPics to adult I can no longer access the site from work. So any help we can get to archive what is left will be great.
Dean, once we have everything ready and I have us a site, we'll start talking more in depth about layout.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Just a quick update. My provider has secured the url www.legionpics.net for our use. It should be active later tonight or tomorrow early and I'll put up a place holder page until we are ready. Anyone have any ideas for the place holder?
Posted by matlock on :
I think any of the large group portraits would be a good enough placeholder for now. This is all happening so fast! Thanks again to all you dedicated Legion fans for your efforts.
Posted by SteveLightle on :
I love the idea of establishing a permanent website home for LegionPics. Those images certainly deserve a proper archive.
As for Legion- United Planets lacking direction ... That is due to a couple of factors. First and foremost, as list owner, my desire was to create a forum for those that enjoyed a LegionPics style of interaction. My moderators (Glen Cadigan and "Greybird") and I, have decided to keep a low profile. We don't want to impose a "direction" on our friends and fellow members.
The other factor is that, due to an attempt to keep out the spammers that have plagued LegionPics, new members and initial posts are requiring moderator approval. This is slowing down our start up, but should soon be cleared up. It's a precaution that causes us extra work, but it's a service to our members.
Steve Lightle
PS: I want to thank my LEGION-UP moderators for being such a great help. I have a limited amount of time to spend on Legion forums, as I am currently inking another issue of LEGION. Thanks guys!
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by SteveLightle: PS: I want to thank my LEGION-UP moderators for being such a great help. I have a limited amount of time to spend on Legion forums, as I am currently inking another issue of LEGION. Thanks guys!
Steve, you tease! Would this be a different issue than the one hinted at with Keith Champagne?
Posted by matlock on :
Steve, if it'll help you getting us more beautiful Lightle Legion art, I'll personally come over to mow your yard, or fetch your pipe and slippers, whatever!
Posted by Greybird on :
Thank you, Scott, for forging ahead with getting LegionPics.net secured ... it's an excellent start. You'll have many of us willing to help, I'm sure, especially with mining the old Group for material and (re)creating a gallery.
Steve Lightle's appreciation about our helping him with LegionUP is itself much appreciated. I see a useful place for such a general-interest Group that Legion fans can find and join amidst other Yahoo! Groups, to build on that easy-to-use interface, and to have a place to stop and chat up Legion matters. I know I do so when bouncing among my own selections of philosophy, literature, graphics, and politics Groups.
LegionUP will find its own direction and emphasis, certainly, and we'll help avoid dashing it on the spammers' and others' rocks while its members work out how to do so.
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