This is topic I have cracked Mark Waid's code in forum Long Live the Legion! at Legion World.


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Posted by Matthew E on :
 
I think I have, anyway.

My latest post on Legion Abstract is one I'm really proud of, and I welcome everyone's thoughts on Waid's approach to Legion characterization, here or here
 

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Posted by Nightcrawler on :
 
I read through your article already Matthew and I have to say "Great Job!"

I think that you are right on the money on what Waid is trying to accomplish. I actually feel a bit stupid not seeing it before.

And I especially like your theory on Chameleon and can't wait to put it to the test in the months to come.

Thanks!
 

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Posted by Tamper Lad on :
 
Nice article Matthew. I've thought of several of them ways similar to what you outline but never considered your thesis as the overarcing theme for the whole cast.

On Phantom Girl, I agree we're not supposed to know her, even some of her teammates dont really know her well and she's a senior member. Her spotlight made it clear that she had been living two separate lives. A violent, exciting punching life on Earth and a suburban life back on Bgztl.

I think that at the end of the spotlight she chose her life with the Legion (symbolized by the dumping of the boyfriend). But this decision came too late for her to form strong bonds with some of her teammates, (symbolized by the fact she was left alone at the club).
 

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Posted by Mystery Lad on :
 
I love your insights in this article, Matthew E. The relationship between powers and personalities is a great one to examine. It'd be interesting to know how much is by the writer's plan, and how much is subconscious.

About Element Lad- there's another aspect to his power that I wish writers would think about using. Yes, he changes things... but he also perceives them. In the reboot-that-was, this aspect was played with a bit but in a half-baked way. If Jan's personality has to be presented in terms of 'spirituality' (and it unfortunately seems that it does), it'd be nice to see it filtered through perception rather than change.

I agree with Nightcrawler. Your summary of Cham 'chameleoning' to mirror/react to whoever he's around is *genius*! I want to reread that scene with Saturn Girl in a spaceship-- what was revealed then?

When I read your article, one of the things that jumped out at me was how sad Invisible Kid's situation is. Maybe that's why I haven't warmed up to this version of the character, yet.

Brainiac 5-- I wonder if his 'immunizing' himself against his teammates' powers could be read as him protecting himself from their personalities as well? Maybe he's made the same deductions as are found in the article. Of course, he'd rationalize his immunization from a position of arrogance. But underneath? Anyone else think this guy is paddling as hard as he can to keep anyone at all from getting 'close'?
 

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Posted by Sir Tim Drake on :
 
That is a very astute article with some sharp insights, Matthew. My compliments.

I think that diversity, and especially the achievement of unity despite diversity, is what the Legion is all about. "Blue skin, yellow skin, green skin ... we’re brothers and sisters ... united in the name of justice everywhere!" My favorite part of your argument is that you show how Mark and Barry's Legion is also about diversity, on a much deeper level than that superficial story I just quoted. These characters are even more diverse than any previous incarnation of the team (except maybe the one that included Tellus and Quislet). But their diverse perspectives are slowly coming together into a cohesive unit: a Legion.
 

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Posted by Matthew E on :
 
Thanks to all for the kind words.

Tamper Lad: We agree about Phantom Girl's commitment to the Legion... but I still don't feel like I really get her yet.

Mystery Lad: I hadn't picked up on that aspect of Element Lad's powers, but I guess he's had that in every version, hasn't he? He must have.

One thing I hadn't thought of about Chameleon's personality... what if he's only a Legionnaire because he happens to be hanging around with other Legionnaires? What if he has no attachment to the group of his own? What happens if he's sent to infiltrate a supervillain group?

I agree that Invisible Kid's situation is a depressing one. One of these days, though, soon, I'm going to post a bunch of stuff I've figured out about Lyle, and I think there's a lot of reason for optimism about him.

As for Brainy, it's always tough to try to write a really smart character, because rarely is the writer that smart himself. Brainy's arrogant enough to think that he wouldn't need to immunize himself against anybody's personality; his mind is too powerful to be vulnerable. What I think Brainy needs is the kind of smackdown Invisible Kid gave to Brainiac 5.1 in the reboot (something the original Brainiac 5 never seemed to need), some way of bringing it home to him that he's a member of the Legion and the Legion is not his personal staff.
 

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Posted by rtvu2 on :
 
That's good. I loved it.
 

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Posted by doublechinner on :
 
Fantastic, Matthew! I hope all the Legion Worlders get around to reading this. Most valuable, in many ways, is reminding us that, from the beginning, Waid wanted the Legionaires to have a harder time relating to each other. I think a lot of the disgruntlement with the new Legion is the sense that they don't like each other, don't have the camaraderie of the earlier versions.

Your insight into Chameleon, and by extension lots of the other Legionaires, is brilliant! I can't wait to see if your thoughts on Ultra Boy prove out. I suspect they will. We may never know the real Chameleon. Kind of like the tragedy of great actors and performers -- when are they themselves and not in character? (I always think of the late great Phil Hartman...)

I had some similar thoughts on Cosmic Boy. Powerful magnetic fields alter the behavior of anything with an electric charge -- from an electron to a black hole. The power to locally alter laws of physics has to make you a control freak, a narcisist, or a megalomaniac.

I can't wait to read more!
 

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Posted by Fat Cramer on :
 
Congratulations, Matthew, on a very interesting and insightful analysis! It will be fun to go back and reread the issues with your ideas in mind.

Now that you've got us all thinking... Karate Kid's power isn't just about strength, but control, as emphasised in the scenes in which he was trying to help Jo. Perhaps he has a controlling personality as well.

There's something more to some of them which I can't put my finger on, as though they represent opposing characteristics: Light Lass is frivolous, but she's also very capable and powerful - she isn't at all frivolous when something needs to be accomplished. Brainy is so smart, he's stupid - and we probably all know someone who is really brilliant intellectually, but a total dork in dealing with the real, everyday world.

Anyways, you've given us lots of food for thought!
 

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Posted by Lightning Lad on :
 
Very well thought out Matthew. I applaud you. Gives me reason to go back and re-read the series.
 

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Posted by Stratum on :
 
Matthew,

Read this earlier this morning from a link off of CBR where they were discussing what a great grasp of the new legion you had. I didn't realize when I read it that it was you.

I really think you're on to something here. Excellent work!

CBR Discussion of Legion Abstract

Jamie
 

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Posted by Matthew E on :
 
Thanks, everybody. I really appreciate the response.

I'm going to be extra looking forward to future issues of the Legion now, so I can find out a) if I'm full of it, or b) if I'm not, how this applies to characters like Timber Wolf and Star Boy and others who haven't been satisfactorily mapped into this model yet.

Oh, by the way: someone anonymously posted on Legion Abstract that the first Waid/Kitson TPB includes character sketches and notes and stuff that partially corroborate the sort of stuff I wrote about in this column. If anybody has it, can you provide details about this? I'm curious.

[ September 13, 2006, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: Matthew E ]
 

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Posted by Lightning Lad on :
 

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Originally posted by Matthew E:
Oh, by the way: someone anonymously posted on Legion Abstract that the first Waid/Kitson TPB includes character sketches and notes and stuff that partially corroborate the sort of stuff I wrote about in this column. If anybody has it, can you provide details about this? I'm curious.

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Originally posted by Matthew E:
That's not proof, but it is support.

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I don't think proof is really necessary. To a certain extent, it doesn't matter whether your interpretation is the one that Mark and Barry had in mind. A text has a life of its own, independently of the intentions of the authors. (And anyway, we can never really know what their intentions are-- even if they tell us, they could be lying. ) What really matters is whether your interpretation is reasonable and interesting, which it is.
 

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Posted by Matthew E on :
 
Well, that's fine if we're talking about a static text. But the Waid/Kitson run of Legion isn't complete yet, so any interpretation that occurs while they're still creating new issues runs the risk of being contradicted by future events. So guessing correctly what Waid and Kitson have in mind does have value: it helps us understand future issues, where an incorrect guess would at best be swept away and at worst confuse us. It's not just personal satisfaction that makes me want to be right, even if I never find out for sure if I am.

(Of course, there's also the possibility that Waid and/or Kitson are reading this and deciding to do it this way even if they weren't before. Which would amuse and delight me to no end. I have to admit I've posted quite a few things, here and on Legion Abstract, where I kind of wished Waid and/or Kitson could or would chime in, not so much to Confirm My Genius as to reassure me that I wasn't Away With The Fairies.)
 

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Posted by Lad Boy on :
 
I don't have the credentials to confirm your genius, but I can assure you that you're not Away with the Fairies.

The column was one of the most interesting analyses of this Legion that I've read.
 

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Posted by Kent Shakespeare on :
 

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Originally posted by Lightning Lad:
Very well thought out Matthew. I applaud you. Gives me reason to go back and re-read the series.

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Originally posted by Sir Tim Drake:
Perhaps Jo can only think about one thing at a time.

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Originally posted by Nick Vinson:
This is the kind of indepth analysis/critique that is sorely lacking on super-hero comics. There is lots of this kind of stuff for the non-capes work. It's almost as if real critique on the superhero set is written off as a waste of overall time.

I really enjoyed this essay. Do more of this. Please.

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Thanks, Nick (and everyone else), and I will try to do more... but I've been trying to do stuff like this all along! Check the Columns (or Roster, or Reviews) page on Legion Abstract and see if there's anything else you like. I'm prouder of this article than of many of my other articles, but I do think some of the other ones were good too.
 

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Posted by Tromium on :
 
Matthew, I just got around to reading your blog and I concur with the others it's a very intriguing and cogent theory. Whether or not you've really cracked the code isn't as important as your realization that, to a large degree, this version of the Legion seems to be about exploring the essence of the characters (though, obviously, some of them have been deep-mined while a few have barely had their surfaces scratched.)

I look forward to your take on the personalities of the animated Legionnaires which, I presume, will be even more tightly integrated with their powers.
 

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Posted by doublechinner on :
 
Thinking about Matthew's "Legion Code" and the issue #22. Subject: Ultra Boy.

He's all surface. He can use only one power at a time. Cause, effect, correlation?

First, Waid's Ultra Boy provides new insight into his power. I think Waid's point is that the "ultra energy" in Jo could be used for ANYTHING. If he wanted, Jo could be "I-Shoot-Energy-Turds-Out-of-My-Butt" Boy. (Do NOT tell him that...)

He uses the energy to replicate the powers of histories greatest hero, Superman. Coincidence? Heck, no, not for Waid and Kitson. You get Ultra Energy in an accident, you intuitively realize you can use it to be a super-hero, you do your best to emulate the iconic super-hero. Hence, strength, invulnerability, speed, flight, vision powers, etc.

Does this imply Jo isn't very imaginative? Perhaps so.

What I ponder is this. Can he use only one power at a time BECAUSE he's all surface, no subtlety, no doing two things at once? Or does using his power require so much concentration there's no mental room left for nuance? I like both explanations. If I had to bet on the "right answer," it would be on the former.

I like this code stuff. It explains EVERYTHING. Why Jo would just happen to have all Kryptonian-like powers, and WHY he can use only one at a time, and what that says about his personality.

There's also his code-name. If you are ULTRA BOY, you would be, well, all BOY, right? History's greatest frat guy, with all the good and bad that implies. Do NOT let this Ultra Boy near anything important, like the Legion Leader or UP diplomacy!

Some thoughts on Shadow Lass and issue 22, sometime.
 

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Posted by Set on :
 
Interesting thoughts on Ultra Boy.

I also wonder if the nature of his powers prevents him from being anything other than Shallow Surface Lad. It's possible that controlling and directing his Ultra-Energy is so taxing that it doesn't leave him much 'room' for anything more complicated.

If he's expending everything he's got just to control what's raging inside of him, and, as has already been demonstrated, hasn't always been successful even at that, perhaps he doesn't really have much emotional energy left for introspection. He's riding a tiger, and if were to stop to admire the sights, he might end up getting mauled...
 

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Posted by Matthew E on :
 
I've got some more support for my Chameleon theory.

In #4, Cham and Gim are being chased by Science Police. Cham snarks off at Gim about how Gim doesn't understand his shape-changing powers... in exactly the same way Gim complains that people who call him 'Colossal Boy' are misunderstanding his powers.

Interestingly, after that, Cham talks Gim into delaying the SPs for a moment, and when Gim does it, he murmurs to himself, "So trusting... so gullible." Is that Cham's own sentiment about him? Or did he reflect it from Gim (who would have been thinking such thoughts about... the Legion?), implying that there's more to Gim than the big friendly guy we can see? Maybe Gim is the Science Police spy Cham conjectured in #19.
 

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Posted by SiliconDream on :
 
That fits really well with Cham's misguided impersonation of Jo in #9. Why did s/he think pretending to be Jo and making up with the others would help? Because then Jo could copy hir. To Cham, becoming a superior version of somebody is doing them a huge favor, because then they can duplicate your better points. Being threatened by this makes no sense--why value your individuality when you can become exactly like whatever/whoever you admire most?

Which means s/he'll probably always have trouble with Jo. One reflexively alters hirself to match the moment, the other has a reflexive dislike of being other than The One Thing He Is Right Now. Oil & water.

This is really quite brilliant, Matthew. If Waid isn't doing this on purpose, he ought to be.
 

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Posted by Set on :
 
Random thoughts on Garth and Ayla.

Twins in the real-world tend to get heartily sick of the whole 'dress them identically, aren't they so precious' thing at a young age, and begin to define themselves apart from their sibling, wanting to be recognized and valued for themselves as individuals and not as 'unit 1 of 2' or 'the one on the left.'

In some cases, this turns into a situation where one of them becomes the 'outgoing, confident' one, and the other becomes the 'quiet, passive' one.

In the case of the Ranzz twins, Garth is being portrayed as focused, loyal enough to appeal to a girlfriend who doesn't have to ever wonder what her boyfriend is thinking and idealistic. He's clearly an optimist. Just as a lightning bolt is an impressive and flashy and focused display of otherwise unimpressive ambient electricity, Garth tends to zero in on something and expect the best situation, and the best from people (leading him to potential disappointment or missteps, such as his hasty signing of the UP documents).

Ayla is very much not an optimist, having a more cynical view of people, and, if one were to define her by her powers, seems to float like a feather on the wind through relationships, and through points of view. She's actively contrary, like trying to catch a dandelion seed, only to have it float away every time you snatch at it, pushed away by the air pressure from your hand. When everyone is pro-Supergirl, she's the one pointing out the negatives. When people dump her with the Kandorians / Rokyn / whatever, Ayla's the one saying, 'hey!' and disapproving of this as well. Growing up with Garth as a brother, she was likely the one who had to 'let him down softly' when he expected the most of someone and was disappointed, since she was more cynical (she would say more *realistic*) and didn't expect the best out of everyone. (I wonder if Mekt has anything to do with this attitude. Perhaps she was once trusting and loyal as well, and a family blow-out with Mekt left her unwilling to do that again.)

But, Mekt aside, Ayla most likely gets her attitude from growing up with Garth. He's the trusting one who dives into life full-throttle, and she plays 'big sister' and casts a wary eye on people, watching out for those who would not only hurt her, but her brother as well, since, in her opinion, he doesn't look so hard at the people around him. She's developed as a person to counter-balance him, and in so doing, encouraged him to go even further in his own direction. Like some twin-pairs, they end up occupying extremes, and being balanced out / moderated by each others 'gravity.'

Ironically, this train of thought of mine had nothing to do with the Ranzz's. I was wondering what sort of conversation occured between the three members of Triad after the incident with Element Lad. I doubt very much that they can keep secrets from each other, and yet I suspect as well that, like twins, the longer they remain in seperate bodies, the more 'apart' they grow. After they recombine, they equalize a bit, but once they seperate again, they quickly start veering back into whatever sort of individuals they are becoming. At some point, particularly if one of them begins engaging in acts the other two don't approve of, will the 'lone wolf' feel increasingly unwilling to recombine with her sister-selves?

It will be interesting to see if Element Lad can even tell them apart. It's been established that on their home-world, they all functioned as individuals, and that they *choose* to merge. They aren't a single person who can split into three, they are three people capable of forming into a gestalt, which begs the question of whether or not one, or more, of them is becoming less and less interested in being 'one of three' and wants to be an individual and live her own life. How will the other two react? What if one of them is emotionally co-dependent on her sister-selves and cannot deal with the 'seperation anxiety' / abandonment issues provoked by the notion of own of them leaving for good? These are girls who've been rejected from their own species, from the warm embrace of a 'family unit' like we can't even imagine, so it would hardly be surprising if one or more of them have enough 'issues' to stock a magazine rack...

Will it develop that everytime they have suggested to merge to settle something, like who had the 'best time ever' on their tri-date, or to resolve their 'rock, scissors, paper' impasse, it was the same 'sister' who wanted to merge, not because it was necessarily the best solution, but because she's most comfortable in the embrace of her sister-selves?

Will it turn out that one of them is the 'natural leader' who prompted them to learn coordinated martial arts techniques and team gymnastics and such? Is another a natural follower? Is one a wannabe individual, increasingly frustrated by her inability to 'get away' from her sister-selves?

At first, I would have suspected an easy 'Ego, Superego, Id' thing with Triad, but I see little evidence of that, which is kinda refreshing.

Shadow Lass and Ultra Boy and Shrinking Violet have the 'Id' thing covered, it seems.

[ November 13, 2006, 09:03 AM: Message edited by: Set ]
 

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Posted by Gorilla Nebula on :
 
don't forget. people think Ayla is a "lighter-than" air-head.
 

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Posted by Downunder Lad on :
 
Some brilliant analyses, here, people. Very well done, Matthew E for coming up with the initial analysis. It does explain an awful lot.

One thought on Ultra-boy: in previous incarnations, it was stated that the "base" state of his ultra-energy was invulnerability, and that he had to consciously switch the energy to speed, strength, etc. This was put forward as one reason why when he belted a brick wall with super-strength he didn't break every bone in his hand: not all of the energy was diverted to strength, and some remained in the base state to protect him. Now think of that in terms of Matt's analysis. If you're pretty much invulnerable, sure you're going to be brash and unthinking. Nothing you do can have any lasting effect, physically, so why worry? That attitude is then going to colour everything else you do: "I'm in trouble? So what? They can't hurt me, and I can bust out of any prison cell." One of the reasons Frat boys are arrogant and take stupid chances is that they have yet to learn that their actions have consequences. To Jo, there are no consequences.

[ November 16, 2006, 03:28 AM: Message edited by: Downunder Lad ]
 

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Posted by Valor1 on :
 

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Some brilliant analyses, here, people.

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Originally posted by Set:
[QB]Ayla is very much not an optimist, having a more cynical view of people, and, if one were to define her by her powers, seems to float like a feather on the wind through relationships, and through points of view. She's actively contrary, like trying to catch a dandelion seed, only to have it float away every time you snatch at it, pushed away by the air pressure from your hand./QB]

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