I'm going to the Wizard World Philly Convention on Saturday, and will be attending the DC Nation Panel hosted by Dan DiDio.
As they usually have a Q & A at the end, is there any Legion-y question that you guys are just dying to ask him?
I'm hereby volunteering to be the mouthpiece for one lucky contestant (chosen at random), and will report back with your answer.
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
Do Lightning Lad and Saturn Girl still have a son?
Posted by Arm Fall Off Boy on :
What would DC do if Geoff Johns left?
Posted by Silver Age Lad on :
Either
What was Busiek's idea for a Legion series
or
how long will Adventure Comics have a Legion back up befor a decision is made to either scrap it or give the Legion its own series
Posted by Matthew E on :
What of Cub?
Posted by Superboy-Supergirl on :
cant we have 3 legion books about the different legions.
Posted by Lone Wolf Legionnaire on :
What of the Pre-Crisis Supergirl/Legion connection?
What of Dev-em and Laurel Kent?
Bring back Val Armorr!
Posted by Kid Quislet on :
Is R.E.B.E.L.S. DC's solution to the Legion 'problem' because it fits 'better' into DC continuity, and will the traditional Legion characters become Superman Family guest characters from now on?
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
quote:Originally posted by Arm Fall Off Boy: What would DC do if Geoff Johns left?
They would probably just let whatever the next writer wants to do. Which is a mistake!
Whatever
quote:Originally posted by Lone Wolf Legionnaire: What of the Pre-Crisis Supergirl/Legion connection?
What of Dev-em and Laurel Kent?
Bring back Val Armorr!
They may have already scarred Dev-Em forever. With the 52 Dev-Em and the criminal 21st century Dev-Em.
Posted by Sir Tim Drake on :
What makes you think you're qualified for your job, and how long must we wait before you get sacked?
(Note: it may not be a good idea to actually ask this.)
Posted by Fat Cramer on :
It's probably past the cut-off time for questions, but I would like to know what the criteria would be for the Legion to get its own comic. Fan support? Sales of the Adventure book? Gut feeling? A creator begging to do the book?
Posted by Exnihil on :
OK... heading out... let's just fire up the Planetary Chance Machine (AKA a random number generator) and see who the lucky winner is...
Well... the last shall become the first... Fat Cramer! (though personally I loved Tim Drake's question )
OK, FC, I'll try to pose that to DiDio today, though if past performance is an indicator, he tends to be a slippery one.
Posted by Exnihil on :
...aaaaaand I'm back.
Wow, what a boring convention. Hardly any DC presence, and very few creators whose names I even recognized. I did pick up a slew of back issues in the quarter bins, though, and had a very nice lunch w/ Shark Lad, so I'll mark those in the win column.
DC Nation. Just a vicious panel at times. Philly is known for being outspoken, and people there made no bones about letting DiDio know how much they thought certain titles "sucked".
Anyway, I did ask Fat Cramer's question, and was told that fan support is essential to bringing the Legion back to the forefront. DiDio likened this period to the post Adventure period, where the Legion played backup to Superboy until enough noise was made to give them their own title. He said that although he always sees the Legion as having a presence in the DCU, this "second feature" status will continue for a period. I followed up, asking how long he anticipated that period being and he said... very discouragingly... "could be a year, could be infinity".
Someone else asked about Legion of 3 Worlds, and he said that if you like Conner Kent, you'll love LO3W #5.
Not directly Legion-y, but someone asked about the severely delayed Ambush Bug #6, and DiDio got, to my eyes at least, somewhat evasive, saying that it will be out soon, as soon as the "dialogue changes" are made. Hmmmmm....
All in all, not a very positive panel for this Legion fan. Although I can somewhat understand the approach of slowly building a new fan base with the backups, I just hope that their strategy pays off.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Exnihil: ...aaaaaand I'm back. Anyway, I did ask Fat Cramer's question, and was told that fan support is essential to bringing the Legion back to the forefront. DiDio likened this period to the post Adventure period, where the Legion played backup to Superboy until enough noise was made to give them their own title.
Well, if that's not a call to arms I don't know what is.
Do today's fans have enough passion to make the same 'noise'? A better question might be if there's any possible way to get enough unity to make the *same* noise?
I know I've been waiting to see what the Legion looks like at the end of Three Worlds... I'm really hoping that the nature of the team(s) and setting(s) left standing by that series' last panel will be something that can somehow unite the Legion's very fractured fandom.
Start thinking of creative ways to make that 'noise' for DC's ears...
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
I'm curious- just what books did the outspoken Philadelphia fans thought 'sucked'?
Posted by Kid Quislet on :
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: I'm curious- just what books did the outspoken Philadelphia fans thought 'sucked'?
Yeah, me too.
Here's a suggestion - everyone sends a small snipit of Fan-created story or drawings of Legion to a specific (single) website. No criticisms or comments of any kind, just an obvious Legion piece, as many times a week as possible. If nothing else DC may accumulate enough material for a Legion Special sometime soon! Any suggestions on a proper website of TPTB?
Posted by Exnihil on :
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: I'm curious- just what books did the outspoken Philadelphia fans thought 'sucked'?
Let's see... and forgive me in advance if I'm misquoting, but I remember a big exchange about dislike for "Battle for the Cowl". Someone asked about what the whole point of "Trinity" was. There was criticism about plotlines being the result of editorial mandate, to which someone replied that they felt it was actually DiDio's mandate. DiDio spun it into a joke, saying that when readers like something they credit the writer, but when they dislike it, they blame him.
I don't want to paint it as just a compliant-fest, though. There was a lot of support for the Green Lantern titles and Tiny Titans, and a lot of excitement about "Wednesday Comics," among others. I would say, though, that it was a very raucous crowd. Somebody at one point made a comment to which someone else yelled "shut up". I love my city. Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
I actually met Didio and shook hands with the man and my hand didn't wither and blacken, so, he's okay in my book.
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
Yes, but can you still have kids? Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
Isn't that what adoption is for?
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
You guys I have to be honest, but I don't really know WHY I shouldn't like Dan Didio. Can someone remind me?
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
quote:Originally posted by Exnihil: Anyway, I did ask Fat Cramer's question, and was told that fan support is essential to bringing the Legion back to the forefront. DiDio likened this period to the post Adventure period, where the Legion played backup to Superboy until enough noise was made to give them their own title. He said that although he always sees the Legion as having a presence in the DCU, this "second feature" status will continue for a period. I followed up, asking how long he anticipated that period being and he said... very discouragingly... "could be a year, could be infinity".
...Would be the place to start for me. If the Legion is so screwed up to not warrant a book of their own...it happened during his time in charge and it is a pretty direct result of his decisions.
Posted by Downunder Lad on :
@ Sarcasm Kid: Reasons to dislike Didio * Final Crisis * Battle for the Cowl * The debacle that has been the Flash for the last three years * Ditto Wonder Woman * the Threeboot Legion...
Posted by Fat Cramer on :
Thank you for asking that question, exnihil. It would be interesting to know what the thinking was back in the post-Adventure period, to put the Legion into a back-up position. I suppose it's ultimately sales-driven, but have always suspected politics of some sort play a role, since we've had the last few series aborted before their natural deaths, sudden changes of creative teams and interrupted story lines. Would sales have been that much different if DnA and Shooter had been allowed to finish their runs?
Putting the team as a second feature is a pretty heavy handicap in the race, given the price of a comic today and the tepid support (so far) for Conner Kent. I'm a bit discouraged for the outlook, since we seem to have another storyline revolving around some universe-changing event, which usually implies a long, drawn-out tale with which we all get impatient.
The Legion fan-base is certainly fractured, but I wonder about the support for some of the books DC does continue to back, and some of the new series they've tossed into the market. (I'm totally biased, of course.) However, it does seem very difficult, if not impossible, to find a uniformly accepted version of the Legion today.
Posted by Silver Age Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Fat Cramer: The Legion fan-base is certainly fractured, but I wonder about the support for some of the books DC does continue to back, and some of the new series they've tossed into the market. (I'm totally biased, of course.) However, it does seem very difficult, if not impossible, to find a uniformly accepted version of the Legion today.
The uniformly accepted version has to be what comes out of Lo3W. That is what DiDio and Johns have decided thay are going to run with. If that doesn't sell there won't be a fourboot there will be nothing.
So it is up to Legion fandom - irrespective of their personal favorite version of the Legion - to get behind Adventure Comics and support it until the Legion take it over or get a new series.
It is the only way. DC aren't going to give the Legion a series because a few Legion Worlders write to Dan DiDio (though letters to DC can't harm the case). They are going to give the Legion a series because Adventure sells more than a b-rater like Conner Kent can justify.
Posted by Matthew E on :
quote:Originally posted by Silver Age Lad: The uniformly accepted version has to be what comes out of Lo3W. That is what DiDio and Johns have decided thay are going to run with. If that doesn't sell there won't be a fourboot there will be nothing.
So it is up to Legion fandom - irrespective of their personal favorite version of the Legion - to get behind Adventure Comics and support it until the Legion take it over or get a new series.
It is the only way. DC aren't going to give the Legion a series because a few Legion Worlders write to Dan DiDio (though letters to DC can't harm the case). They are going to give the Legion a series because Adventure sells more than a b-rater like Conner Kent can justify.
To hell with that. I'll buy Adventure if it pleases me to do so and for no other reason. I'm not going to have DiDio playing hardball with me. It wasn't me who got the Legion into this mess. What if Adventure is a terrible comic--should I still buy it then? If I do buy it, does that mean I like it that the Legion only has a backup? Does it mean that I'm a big fan of Superboy II? Does it mean that I'm supporting the Legion getting their own title? Who's to say? DC's going to do whatever they want to do. The ball's in their court, not ours, and I'm not accepting custody of it no matter how much I like the Legion. The guy's got a lot of nerve.
Posted by cleome on :
quote:Originally posted by He Who Wanders: Yes, but can you still have kids?
Posted by doublechinner on :
On the one hand, telling fans they better buy it or else after generations of DC editorial ruined the property, that's pretty infuriating.
On the other hand, The Action/Legion arc sold pretty well, and FC:LOTW has sold well (and would have sold better if it were published more often than semiannually). So, it seems like a reasonable hurdle for a Johns-based Legion to meet.
I guess I would feel better about all this if DiDio were still in a mode of actually selling his product to convention audiences, rather than threatening them. And this applies to many more properties than the Legion. DiDio does deserve credit for nurturing an interesting range of characters and finding ways to keep them in print (think Manhunter, Blue Beetle, Jonah Hex). There is also no doubt that Flash has been a trainwreck since Infinite Crisis and that Wonder Woman has shot itself in the foot a lot since then, too. I think maybe part of DiDio's issue with the Legion is that he doesn't find it particularly interesting personally. And given his usual attitude, he probably thinks the fanbase is a pain in the @$$. I think about his comment that when he actually looked at the 3 versions, they were so similar he didn't see why you should have all 3 around. I don't necessarily disagree with that, but it seems surprising for an EIC to admit this after approving a 3rd boot and almost simultaneously approving the revival of the 1st boot. But anyway, I am going to remain positive. I'm going to read Adventure Comics, and I'm going to send Mr. DiDio any and all positive feedback I can possibly find, along with any negative criticism warranted.
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by Downunder Lad: @ Sarcasm Kid: Reasons to dislike Didio * Final Crisis * Battle for the Cowl * The debacle that has been the Flash for the last three years * Ditto Wonder Woman * the Threeboot Legion...
Well to be honest I liked Final Crisis. I've been reading Morrison enough to get an understanding of the stories he types. Thankfully, like the mermaids in Futurama, what would've taken millions of years got sped up by extreme doses of caffeine. That stuff is WONDERFUL.
The Threeboot Legion had more original material and designs when the Legion was rebooted, I guess. And I have no idea what Ditto Wonder Woman is.
Posted by Arm Fall Off Boy on :
I think he just meant "The debacle that has been the Flash for the last three years" and that in HIS OPINION the same goes for Wonder Woman-it's a debacle.
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
Oh, well, the only Wonder Woman books I have are the two Elseworlds and the second volume of 60s Diana.
Posted by Silver Age Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Matthew E:
quote:Originally posted by Silver Age Lad: The uniformly accepted version has to be what comes out of Lo3W. That is what DiDio and Johns have decided thay are going to run with. If that doesn't sell there won't be a fourboot there will be nothing.
So it is up to Legion fandom - irrespective of their personal favorite version of the Legion - to get behind Adventure Comics and support it until the Legion take it over or get a new series.
It is the only way. DC aren't going to give the Legion a series because a few Legion Worlders write to Dan DiDio (though letters to DC can't harm the case). They are going to give the Legion a series because Adventure sells more than a b-rater like Conner Kent can justify.
To hell with that. I'll buy Adventure if it pleases me to do so and for no other reason. I'm not going to have DiDio playing hardball with me. It wasn't me who got the Legion into this mess. What if Adventure is a terrible comic--should I still buy it then? If I do buy it, does that mean I like it that the Legion only has a backup? Does it mean that I'm a big fan of Superboy II? Does it mean that I'm supporting the Legion getting their own title? Who's to say? DC's going to do whatever they want to do. The ball's in their court, not ours, and I'm not accepting custody of it no matter how much I like the Legion. The guy's got a lot of nerve.
I respect your right to buy whatever you decide. You earn your money and you choose what to invest it in. But all I will add is that if Legion fandom had taken that approach whan the Action back-ups started or when the Legion became an occasional back-up in Superboy, we wouldn't be having this debate because the Legion would have died them.
If we want DC to repeat history, then Legion fandom has to as well.
Posted by BouncingBear on :
I was part of that Legion Fandom back when the Legion a back-up, and yes, I wrote letters and bought 5 issues of each issue....however...I only paid .25 per issue and not $4.00 when there is a recession going on!!
Posted by Sir Tim Drake on :
quote:Originally posted by Silver Age Lad: So it is up to Legion fandom - irrespective of their personal favorite version of the Legion - to get behind Adventure Comics and support it until the Legion take it over or get a new series.
Oh, the hell with that. I'm not going to be extorted into paying $4 a month for bad 8-page Legion stories, just on the basis of D.. D....'s vague promises that there might be another Legion title someday. That's extortion and he knows it.
Posted by Sir Tim Drake on :
quote:Originally posted by Matthew E: To hell with that. I'll buy Adventure if it pleases me to do so and for no other reason. I'm not going to have DiDio playing hardball with me. It wasn't me who got the Legion into this mess. What if Adventure is a terrible comic--should I still buy it then? If I do buy it, does that mean I like it that the Legion only has a backup? Does it mean that I'm a big fan of Superboy II? Does it mean that I'm supporting the Legion getting their own title? Who's to say? DC's going to do whatever they want to do. The ball's in their court, not ours, and I'm not accepting custody of it no matter how much I like the Legion. The guy's got a lot of nerve.
Exactly. It was his own damn fault that the previous Legion series was cancelled. Its sales were perfectly fine and its cancellation was not due to a lack of fan support.
As usual, D.. D.... is trying to blame us for things that are his fault. This is one reason why I'm determined not to buy any comic book with his name on it (or even type his name).
Posted by Sir Tim Drake on :
Suppose there's only one restaurant in town that serves hamburgers. Suppose you go to that restaurant every day at lunchtime and order a hamburger. One day, however, the manager tells you that you can't have a whole hamburger; you can only have a quarter of a hamburger and three quarters of a baloney sandwich. The price for this is slightly higher than the price for a whole hamburger. And suppose the manager then says, "Someday we might allow you to buy a whole hamburger again, but only if you and all your friends come in here every day and order three quarters of a baloney sandwich and one quarter of a hamburger. Oh, and it's your fault that we took whole hamburgers off the menu."
Why would you go back to that restaurant, even if it was the only restaurant in town that had hamburgers? Wouldn't you just find something else to eat?
Posted by Matthew E on :
quote:Originally posted by Sir Tim Drake: Suppose there's only one restaurant in town that serves hamburgers. Suppose you go to that restaurant every day at lunchtime and order a hamburger. One day, however, the manager tells you that you can't have a whole hamburger; you can only have a quarter of a hamburger and three quarters of a baloney sandwich. The price for this is slightly higher than the price for a whole hamburger. And suppose the manager then says, "Someday we might allow you to buy a whole hamburger again, but only if you and all your friends come in here every day and order three quarters of a baloney sandwich and one quarter of a hamburger. Oh, and it's your fault that we took whole hamburgers off the menu."
Why would you go back to that restaurant, even if it was the only restaurant in town that had hamburgers? Wouldn't you just find something else to eat?
Exactly!
Although: it's only our worst-case-scenario that the other three-quarters are a baloney sandwich. For all we know, it could turn out to be filet mignon. And the one-quarter hamburger could turn out to be a like a deluxe Angus beef burger or whatever. Let's not let our pessimism run too far ahead of our information.
quote:I respect your right to buy whatever you decide. You earn your money and you choose what to invest it in. But all I will add is that if Legion fandom had taken that approach whan the Action back-ups started or when the Legion became an occasional back-up in Superboy, we wouldn't be having this debate because the Legion would have died them.
If we want DC to repeat history, then Legion fandom has to as well.
A couple of things about that: my understanding is that the Legion wasn't switched to Action for any good reason, but out of editorial whim. Yes? Then there was no more reason for the fans to indulge DC in its silly decisions back then than there is now.
We don't know what would have happened back then if Legion fandom hadn't done what they did. I think it's more likely than not that the Legion would have come back in some form anyway.
But circumstances are different now anyway. Now, the Legion has a fifty-year history as one of DC's (overall) more successful titles. It's just silly to be treating them as if they were Jaime Reyes, especially considering a) the response to the Johns retroboot, b) the sales level of the threeboot, early on, and c) DC Editorial's role in the change to the sales level of the threeboot, later on.
DiDio's just being silly. He already has all the good reasons he needs to publish a Legion comic. If that's not good enough for him, I don't know what more a bad reason (by which I mean panicky Legion fans buying multiple copies of a comic book they don't want) would do.
Posted by stuorstew on :
quote:Originally posted by Sir Tim Drake: Exactly. It was his own damn fault that the previous Legion series was cancelled. Its sales were perfectly fine and its cancellation was not due to a lack of fan support.
As usual, D.. D.... is trying to blame us for things that are his fault. This is one reason why I'm determined not to buy any comic book with his name on it (or even type his name).[/QB]
Whilst I would agree it was his decision to cancel the Threeboot I do not think that is the same thing as being his fault. It was always my understanding the the Threeboot was cancelled for sales reasons, not that the Threeboot was not selling just that the quasi-original Legion being offered up in Action and Lo3W seems to be selling substantially better.
If this is the case then cancelling the Threeboot was the correct thing to do from a business standpoint as potentially DC/Warner stand to make more money from the Johnsboot than the Threeboot; and this, as much as we may not like it, is really what Dan Didio is employed to do.
I would also rather there was a new ongoing series instead of a series of back-ups but it probably makes far more sense to test the water like this than run straight into a new series featuring all new characters. (actually this is not true I would rather have issue 63 of TMK or 39 of The Legion or 51 of Threeboot but none of these seem that likely
Fine do not buy Adventure Comics (or anything else) if the stories are no good or do not appeal to you but not buying the book just because you do not happen to like someone who, in theory, is only peripherally involved seems to be a little short sighted, but obviously it is your choice to make.
Posted by Matthew E on :
quote:Originally posted by stuorstew:
quote:Originally posted by Sir Tim Drake: Exactly. It was his own damn fault that the previous Legion series was cancelled. Its sales were perfectly fine and its cancellation was not due to a lack of fan support.
As usual, D.. D.... is trying to blame us for things that are his fault. This is one reason why I'm determined not to buy any comic book with his name on it (or even type his name).
Whilst I would agree it was his decision to cancel the Threeboot I do not think that is the same thing as being his fault. It was always my understanding the the Threeboot was cancelled for sales reasons, not that the Threeboot was not selling just that the quasi-original Legion being offered up in Action and Lo3W seems to be selling substantially better.
If this is the case then cancelling the Threeboot was the correct thing to do from a business standpoint as potentially DC/Warner stand to make more money from the Johnsboot than the Threeboot; and this, as much as we may not like it, is really what Dan Didio is employed to do.[/QB]
Okay. Fine. That's not a plan that I particularly care for, but it's perfectly understandable. So where's our comic book about the Johnsboot? If a Johnsboot comic would be so much more successful than a threeboot comic, then where is it? Can't make money on a comic you're not publishing!
Posted by Owl Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Sarcasm Kid: Isn't that what adoption is for?
Speaking as an adoptive parent, I am saddened and take great offence to this offside comment.
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
Sorry. I didn't mean to offend you, Owl Lad. Honestly.
Posted by cleome on :
(snip)
Silver Age Lad:
quote:...If we want DC to repeat history, then Legion fandom has to as well...
Dear Mr. Didio,
Please return to charging whatever you charged for a single issue back in the early days of *Adventure Comics* and then we'll talk.
Sincerely,
cleome
Posted by doublechinner on :
A few more random thoughts about DiDio and whither the Legion and all that jazz:
I have the feeling SOMEONE at DC (maybe not DD, but someone), has a pretty clear idea where they want the Legion to go and how to get there. And I have the feeling that the hitch is that "looooonnnnngggg lead time" problem that really seems to be hampering virtually all of DC's new product (and not-new product, for that matter). From this perspective, I think the backup feature (I refuse to call an 8-page story a co-feature. A co-feature would be 1/2 the total page count!) may be a way of keeping the product out there while schedules align. I have no proof of this, just the sense that 1) Johns wants to be involved in the Legion, 2) Johns has a REALLY busy schedule already and 3) it's increasingly hard to find artists who can deliver books on time, let alone books with a literal legion of characters.
Second, and this is something I have to push everyday for people at work to remember, we are in the midst of the worst economic crisis since the 1930s. One of the things that makes it so bad is that (American) consumers have finally stopped spending beyond their means. At the same time, a lot of commodity/input prices are still relatively high (much lower than last summer, but still much higher than a few years ago). This has to be hitting comics, and raising the threshold for a sustainable sales level. It may be why we are seeing more limited series -- They have to represent fewer long-term commitment costs in down market. In light of this, it may very well be a vote of confidence to have the Legion in a backup.
Nothing I write here should indicate that I disagree with the general disgust and anger at the gross mismanagement of the concept for the past generation.
Posted by Silver Age Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by cleome: (snip)
Silver Age Lad:
quote:...If we want DC to repeat history, then Legion fandom has to as well...
Dear Mr. Didio,
Please return to charging whatever you charged for a single issue back in the early days of *Adventure Comics* and then we'll talk.
Sincerely,
cleome
I find this comparison on prices puzzling. costs of all commodities have risen with inflation and comic book pricing is no worse than most.
Would you not buy a house or a loaf of bread because it isn't the same price as the 1960s? Of course not. Try living in the UK where DC prices are 50 to 100 percent more expensive than the US.
I understand the frustration with DiDio's apparent attitude but the phrase cutting your nose of to spite your face springs to mind. "I don't like DiDio's treatment of the Legion so I'll boycott Legion books and prove him right".
Great tactics.
Posted by cleome on :
(snip)
Silver Age Lad:
quote:...Would you not buy a house or a loaf of bread because it isn't the same price as the 1960s?..
It's just my way of kidding on the square. Anyway, I don't know much about purchasing power in other parts of the world, but around here: There is a definite difference in how much purchasing power most people my age have compared to most people who were our age back in the 1960s and 1970s.
So, technically, I could afford to spend five dollars on a comic book in the literal sense. I could walk out of the house and do it right now. However, life isn't like it was two-plus decades ago. I have other financial responsibilities and commitments, and the relative value of disposable income would be different than it once was even without some pretty formidable outside factors.
Y'know, it's not as if I'm specifically taking my mad out on DC. I can't afford anyone's comics right now. I can't afford books or CDs, either, and it doesn't matter whose they are. If it's not coming from the library or perhaps somebody's yard sale, or if it's not available online, I won't be reading it. That's just the way it is.
It does, however, seem to me that if large companies want people to maintain their hobbies in a bad economic climate, one of the first things they'd want to consider is how to make that hobby cheaper to maintain.
Posted by Matthew E on :
Is it not also true that the price of comics has outrun the inflation rate? By a lot? I seem to recall that it is.
Posted by Owl Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Sarcasm Kid: Sorry. I didn't mean to offend you, Owl Lad. Honestly.
apology accepted. i already know i'm oversensitive about these matters.
Posted by cleome on :
quote:Originally posted by Matthew E: Is it not also true that the price of comics has outrun the inflation rate? By a lot? I seem to recall that it is.
I wouldn't be surprised. Don't worry, though. The execs have probably found a way to blame us for that, too.
Posted by Para-Dox on :
remember what marvel management said, their $3.99 price hike was to see how much they can charge before losing readers for maximum profit
Posted by Matthew E on :
I think that's how the price of everything is set.
Posted by Para-Dox on :
It is much more horrible than how I put it though. More like they were squeezing readers to see how far they would go. At $2.99 they are still seeing a profit and could continue but with their market share they feel they can justify $3.99 for no other reason but to sqeeze the readers dry.
Posted by doublechinner on :
A 10 cent comic in 1966 would cost 66 cents in 2009, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics CPI calculator. But, the actual product of a comic book is markedly different from comics in the 1960s. Much better paper, true color, etc.
Also, remember the Hero Initiative? The charity that raises money for older comics creators because they got screwed by the publishers, had no benefits, no health coverage, no pensions, etc? I imagine DC and Marvel are having to compensate creatives a LITTLE better than they did in the 1960s.
Posted by cleome on :
And yet, unless comic book corporations are the exceptions that prove the rule, their tax burden has decreased in the last half-century; and the disparity between what grunts and execs get paid has increased.
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
Ironically, the quality of a comic produced today as opposed to 1966 is dramatically inferior (IMHO - disclaimer) and wouldn't be worth 66 cents let alone $2.99 or $3.99!
Posted by cleome on :
quote:Originally posted by Para-Dox: It is much more horrible than how I put it though. More like they were squeezing readers to see how far they would go. At $2.99 they are still seeing a profit and could continue but with their market share they feel they can justify $3.99 for no other reason but to squeeze the readers dry.
More than that, the whole system is set up to squeeze the same small group over and over again. Attempts to grow the audience rather than strip-mine the one you've already got... well, nobody seems to be trying any harder on that front than they were twenty years ago.
Posted by doublechinner on :
Totally agree with that, Cleome.
Posted by googoomuck on :
Am i the only one who doesn't like the all glossy pages of todays comic books?
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
quote:Originally posted by googoomuck: Am i the only one who doesn't like the all glossy pages of todays comic books?
Nope. Personally, I liked the Mondo paper that was used in the '80s. (I don't know if it's still in use.) Mondo was of better quality than newsprint but certainly not glossy.
However, I would happily prefer newsprint it doing so would make comics more affordable and have better stories.
Posted by cleome on :
Mondo is a good compromise. It holds up a little better with age, for sure.
They can save any further moves toward archive-quality whatever for the trades, so far as I'm concerned.
Posted by Kid Quislet on :
I used to get comics (TV21) from my grandparents in England when I was a kid in the 70's, and they used that glossy paper way back then. It does seem to hold up pretty well over time (yes, I still have a bunch of them).
I think the only way comic companies would be able to regain the circulation numbers they enjoyed in the 50's and 60's would be to produce the cheap, throwaways on newsprint as was done at that time, such as your Sunday funny papers are produced today.
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