Justice League of America #1 (2006): As its been said not too much to spoil.
Just a montage of moments between Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman from the past present and future.
Many of the moments may contain hints about the current state of DCU continuity. Click Here For A Spoiler Such as the Flash discovering the existence of something in the future and the revelation that Clark had a secret tunnel from the floor of his room out into the farm when he was a boy in Smallville.
I read Meltzer's interview at Newsarama, he mentioned both Polar Boy and the Legion Espionage Squad in the Q&A. Sounds like he's a fan of the 70s and 80s LSH. So Karate Kid's appearance on one half of the cover of #1 is likely his doing.
[ August 31, 2011, 02:42 PM: Message edited by: Reboot ]
Posted by Matthew E on :
Okay, I guess there are *some* things to spoil. Most of the comic book is a set of flashbacks to meetings in the past between the big three as they discussed the Justice League and other things. It's good character stuff.
The spoilerriffic stuff is the flashforwards to events that are allegedly going to happen in the future. Things like: - Hal Jordan's marriage to someone we can't see - the death of Pa Kent (that hasn't happened yet, right?) - the existence of a parallel Earth - a fight between the big three and a guy who looks suspiciously like Luthor, who is screaming, "He was my son!" and knocking a bunch of Batman's teeth out - the death, or apparent death, or disappearance of Batman - the marriage of Wonder Woman to someone whose name isn't mentioned; apparently she'd have to give up immortality to do this
I don't mind if any or all of these things happen, but I do want to say that I don't think DC should feel obligated to have any of them happen if they don't want to.
The Meltzer Q-and-A session wasn't bad. Not much in the way of hard information, but it does seem like he has a feel for the League (and I am speaking as someone who didn't read Identity Crisis). As far as I'm concerned, the best question went something like this:
Q. Does anybody object to the unilateral way the Big Three are appointing members to the team? If so, who? Aquaman?
A. YES. Martian Manhunter? YES. Oliver Queen? DOES A FROG BUMP HIS ASS A-HOPPING?
Looking forward to the first issue.
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
I liked it. It was cool. So Wonder Woman is back in continuity. By that I mean it appears she's an original member of the JLA. I liked the Meltzer approach to the big three. Best I've seen in a while.
As for the future stuff? cool. Regarding Batman dead....that appears to be Dark Knight Returns. I think.
As for members I can make out? Supes, Bats, Wondy, GL Hal Jordan, Red Tornado, Hawkman(!), Green Arrow. From what Matthew said it appears Aquaman as well and Martian Manhuter. On the cover I am not sure about the females. Vixen appears to be one...the other with the long pony tail? Black Canary is my guess.
I am excited about this title.
Posted by Spellbinder on :
I just hope we don't see any more Identity Crisis-esque retcons, like Sue's rape and the Leaguers mind-wiping. Those changes just never sat well with me, kinda like a special time in my youth had been violated (I loved the satellite era League as a kid).
Posted by Matthew E on :
quote:From what Matthew said it appears Aquaman as well and Martian Manhuter.
What I got from that was not that they'd be in the League, but that they'd be ticked off at how the League was chosen.
For that matter, I don't see how Green Arrow (original version) can be in the League either; being mayor takes up a lot of one's time. It'd make more sense for it to be Arsenal or Green Arrow (extra crispy). But we'll see.
I'm pretty excited about this. I didn't realize I liked the Justice League this much.
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
I rather see Tempest and Connor Hawke in the JLA. But Arsenal isn't on the Outsiders anymore so he'd be cool as well.
On the cover for #2 Martian Manhunter certainly doesn't appear to be an option.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
I enjoyed it, as well. The art and layout really contributed to the mood of the piece. I didn't even mind the overlapping dialogue bubbles, too much.
The Vixen development was surprising. I wonder if it'll be a long-term change? If so, does that open the door for Animal Man guest-starring, or even joining, perhaps?
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
Just when I'd gotten used to the idea that heroes weren't as buddy-buddy as they were in the silver age, they retcon it back to them all being on first name bases practically from the get-go.
I don't know if I like how the Big3 are becoming *SO* important to the DCU. Weren't these guys part-time members back in the day? (Superman and Batman at least) You'd think the League was all their idea the way they carry on. I guess this invalidates practically all of "JLA: Year One" (maybe JLA: Incarnations, but I didn't read it).
From the Hal Jordan wedding scene it appears that all the other Leaguers are married (Hal being "the last one") - they alluded to Batman having a relationship, but married?
[ July 22, 2006, 07:41 PM: Message edited by: DrakeB3004 ]
Posted by Igee The Mighty on :
It's a mish-mash of things past, present & future for the JLA, but nowhere does #0 really dwell on who would be members. As mentioned, it's more how the Big 3 and the League have been "relating" to each other. I like how the flash-forwards seem to give away hints to future elements, not solely of the League but of what becomes of the Big 3.
As Matthew mentioned, DC shouldn't feel beholden to the events portended by the flash-forwards, kinda like how the "adult Legion" stories were possibilities that may or may not happen.
Posted by doublechinner on :
Drake, I really like your observations about the Big 3 versus everyone else. I too have always been partial to the "lesser" heroes being the driving force behind teams. Probably why I ALWAYS loved the JSA.
On the other hand, I appreciate that DC has finally realized they can't neglect the Big 3. That they have to get the Big 3's characterization right, with great stories, top creators, etc. And, if they are going to be the Big 3, they might as well have been the driving force behind the JLA. Plus, it sets up a great future story (a perennial evergreen), probably after Meltzer's run, about disgruntlement from the other guys.
BTW, it's worth mentioning the significance of a Big 3. If you look back, Wonder Woman really didn't have THAT big a role in the past. What changed it? Kingdom Come? I'm not complaining--the character more than deserves such status.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
One of the things DC did differently from Marvel was that their characters were all kings of their own castle - they each got their own made-up city. Marvel had a clearer hierarchy because they were all jammed together in NYC and the more realistic approach of Marvel allowed for heroes to be second-rate, have flaws or be outsiders.
One of the reasons Morrison's Uber-Batman annoyed people was that it made the other Big7 seem less than fans were used to seeing them portrayed in their own titles (except for Kyle the newbie who was more impressive in JLA, but he was the "Spidey" character so it made sense that he'd be built up rather than knocked down). I hope the same doesn't happen here.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
I find the adding of Wonder Woman to the Superman/Batman team to be rather odd. I always associated her more with Aquaman or J'Onn than the World's Finest team.
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
I also don't care for the "best friends forever" stuff. As Drake said each character was usually the king of their castles. The good character interaction that went more in-depth was the lesser known characters...aka characters without their own book.
Superman and Batman atleast already are overexposed. Aquaman is a good example. He can't sell a series. Stop giving him one. Tell his story in the JLA and make more important to the team.
EDE, I also don't pair Wonder Woman with Supes and Bats. Always thought she would end up dating Aquaman.
The are a team. They were never a family. Friends yes but a team first. ohwell. Still looking foward to it. I think Meltzer just wants to put some more "soul" into the "team".
Jorge (i can't stop with the quotations)
Posted by Matthew E on :
The way I look at it is that 'Justice League' should be DC's flagship. The JLA is the absolute major league of superhero activity in the DCU; whatever big challenges there are in the way of interstellar menaces or megalomaniacal supervillains, the JLA should be the first, last and greatest line of defense. For this reason you need to have the best of the best in the group. It's arguable as to who exactly constitutes DC's best-of-the-best, but clearly Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman have to be on the list. And if that makes them overexposed, then so be it.
And they've known each other a long time, and been through a lot together. Not just them, but a lot of the other candidates for membership too. It's not only reasonable that they would have formed strong friendships during that time, it's also nice to read about.
Posted by Kid Prime on :
quote:Originally posted by doublechinner: BTW, it's worth mentioning the significance of a Big 3. If you look back, Wonder Woman really didn't have THAT big a role in the past. What changed it? Kingdom Come? I'm not complaining--the character more than deserves such status.
I think Kingdom Come certainly played its part in moving WW to "Big 3" status, but IMHO, it was Trinity that sealed the deal.
Posted by profh0011 on :
Just suppose... the alternate Earth is really EARTH-1, and all the "flash-forwards" are what's been going on over there in the last 20 YEARS?
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
The cover to #1's out -- click to find out who made the lineup!!
[I've edited the title of the thread to reflect its status as the "Justice League" thread rather than just for the zero issue]
Posted by KryptonKid on :
Wow! I really didn't have high hopes for the line-up, but I love it! One of them I could do w/o, but one I have been clamoring for for a long time! Thanks, Drake. I'd kiss you if you had lips.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I think this is a kick-ass line-up. Not how I would have picked it, but something to still get excited about.
Very glad to see Hal, Dinah, Red Tornado involved. Hawkgirl deserves to be there, and Black Lightning has always been 'just on the fringe' of the greats, so this is cool. Vixen isn't as much a surprise as she could have been a few months ago, but is probably the most welcome addition. Her inclusion gives it a real 'respect all eras of the JLA' feel to it.
Roy is probably the last Titan I thought would ever make it. Interested in where that goes (I love Ollie in the JLA).
Wouldn't be surprised is the line-up was changed by issue #7.
Now I'm looking for bold new stories pulling the League into the future. I need it to be exciting again.
Posted by Rockhopper Lad on :
I don't know if this is enough to get me to start buying JLA (I don't on principal--for the same reason I don't read any Superman or Batman titles--I feel DC's second string deserves more support), but I'm glad to see Dinah and Kendra on the roster, so that there is a solid JSA connection.
Posted by Invisible Brainiac on :
Not excited about Roy, but looking forward to Dinah, Vixen, Tornado and Hawkgirl. And Black Lightning should be fun Posted by Bevis on :
If they were going to add one Titan I'm surprised it wasn't Tempest (unless he's dead currently) simply because he hearkens back to Aquaman while actually having soem useful powers. Although I suppose Zatanna duplicates the magic powers and is generally more powerful than he is in that respect, so...
ot a bad line up at all. If Dinah is leaving BoP permanently because of JLA (which seems likely) I'll be miffed. Same for Kendra with the JSA, but they both deserve a place in the JLA.
Unfortunately since IC was such an pile of unmitigated pish I shan't be getting JLA until at least Meltzer has gotten the boot. No matter how much I like that line-up (and it has a lot of characters that are either favourites or I'm interested in) the writers track record has been so appaling that I don't even want to give it a look.
Posted by Spellbinder on :
Not sure what I think of this line up. I'm not a huge Black Lightning fan, but at the same time I don't dislike him. I would have preferred Conner over Roy, but at least Hal is better than Guy. Vixen will depend on how she's written (I loved her in Justice League Unlimited, but didn't care for her in the Detroit JL). I wish Zatanna had made the cut, but at least Black Canary is there. It does seem weird to not have a Flash or Aquaman Family member there, though.
What's going to make or break this series for me is going to be the writer. If he just moves forward with new stories, then fine. However, I don't want to see more Identity Crisis stuff. No more retconned rapes and mindwipes and mutilations. Hopefully the shiny happy DCU will avoid stuff like that. We'll see.
Posted by Bevis on :
Oh, and I should say that's possibly one of the most hideous covers I've seen from Turner. Wondy and Vixen especially look... well, deformed. Wondy's face is horrible. I'll be interested to see what the other version of the cover looks like.
Posted by matlock on :
Glad I'm not the only one who thinks so Bevis. Doesn't Vixen have thumbs anymore? And Hawkgirl's wings: where exactly are they attached? And Superman's shoulder is about as big as his head. This is what makes a #1 cover? I just want to buy the League one of those big 6 ft party sub sandwiches.
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Bevis: Oh, and I should say that's possibly one of the most hideous covers I've seen from Turner. Wondy and Vixen especially look... well, deformed. Wondy's face is horrible. I'll be interested to see what the other version of the cover looks like.
There's actually three covers Bevis. This one (Turner) is the 1 in 10 limited edition cover. The other two are each 45% of the total amount shipped. They are the two halves of the Ed Benes group shot thaat's been floating around since he was announced as the artist for JLofA.
I'm not much of a Turner fan either so I'll be getting one or maybe both of the Benes covers. Curse them for not doing a nice gatefold of that group shot. DC marketing has their hand in my wallet and is counting out an additional 4$.
Posted by Joe-Boy Harvestar on :
Woo thats an ugly cover
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
quote:Originally posted by Tamper Lad: There's actually three covers Bevis. This one (Turner) is the 1 in 10 limited edition cover. The other two are each 45% of the total amount shipped. They are the two halves of the Ed Benes group shot thaat's been floating around since he was announced as the artist for JLofA.
Whew! I'll be very happy not to waste my money on that crappy cover.
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
Unfortunately his covers become the "standard" edition with number 2. So you'll have to shell out the bucks to avoid them starting next month. Posted by Blacula on :
WOW! I LOVE that line-up! (Well, nearly.)
Superman, Wonder Woman and Batman were givens so no surprises at their inclusion.
Nice to see Hal Jordan's star continue to shine at DC and something does just feel "right" about having him there, but part of me would've liked to see John make the cut instead. He needs more exposure. Still, looking forward to reading some more Hal.
Vixen, Black Lightning, Black Canary, Red Tornado and Roy Harper (as Red Arrow)?
OH MY GOD! YES!
They are all members of my ULTIMATE League! LOVE 'em all! Cannot wait to see their interactions!
The only member I'm not happy with is Hawkgirl. I was a BIG fan of the pre-Crisis JLA member Shayera Hol/Shiera Hall and really hate the way she has been given the shaft at every turn since the whole Hawk mess began. And I'm afraid Kendra is just no substitute. She bored me to tears in JSA but I could at least handle her there. I really, really, REALLY don't think she deserves to be in the JLA though so unless Meltzer works some magic on her (like say, killing off the Kendra side of her identity and bringing out the Shiera Hall side that's meant to be lying dormant in her more, and dying her hair red) then I'm always gonna be of the opinion that this was ALMOST the perfect line-up.
Still, almost aint bad!
I know some people on here don't like Meltzer but I thought Identity Crisis was one of the best comic stories I've read in the last few years (though it did have a bit of a let-down ending). And his Archers Quest in Green Arrow was phenomenally good. I have no doubt that his JLA is going to be one we'll be talking about for a very long time.
SOOOOOooo looking forward to Wednesday!
Posted by knowjack on :
The only one I could do without is Hawkgirl. There's just a lot of other female characters who would have been a better choice, IMHO.
Glad to see Dinah in--I just hope that doesn't mean she has to leave BoP. She's the main reason I buy that book, and if the Big 3 and GL can be in the JLA and their own books, why can't Dinah be in two books?
I've never been much of a fan of archer superheroes, but Roy has lots of history with the DCU, so I'm not too bummed about him being in. Think it's great to see Red Tornado back in action, and it's REALLY great to see Black Lightning's new look. I think it'll be really interesting to see him interact with some of the other guys.
I am just now sure about the female character lineup. I know they each have their own powers, but all four of them are primarily "fighters"...I would have rather seen Zatanna or Starfire.
All in all, a good line up. But I will agree that cover is HIDEOUS. I totally don't get the Michael Turner love.
Posted by Nick Vinson on :
Okay I have to say something nice before I say something Critical.
What the? BLACK LIGHTNING!?!?! Finally. Respect. And... Vixen? WHAT WHAT WHAT?!?! Dinah Made the cut! Brilliant! Kendra. Fancy.
Okay Im going to say something critical.
Mike Turner draws aweful covers. All the Time. Icky. Hal "Whitebread" Jordan. Well thats neither good nor bad. But then I'm a Kyle Rayner fella myself. Roy. Hmmm. This can go either way, but I am willing to love it.
Posted by MLLASH on :
*meekly* ummm, i like the cover...
And the lineup is HOT!
Can't wait-- Benes draws the hottest superheroes!!
Posted by KryptonKid on :
Love Black Lightning, hope they do the character justice (pardon the pun). Canary, Tornado, Hawkgirl, yes, hello!!! Roy should prove interesting, a source of friction, maybe. Hal was a mediocre choice. Kyle, or better yet John, would have been more fun, IMHO. Vixen? Never cared for her and don't really see her appeal. (Maybe someone could explain it to me slowly. I catch on quicker that way.) This grouping is so well-rounded and thought out that the omission of some of my favs seems trivial now. Can wait to see what in store for Reddy and the rest!
Posted by Spellbinder on :
The revised Ed Benes covers are available over at the Comic Bloc forums. There are a number of changes to the original drawing that we saw way back when.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Looks like the book is no longer on the Legion AR list. Not if those are the published versions of the cover.
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
Those covers make up my dream line-up (sort of). Too bad they don't use a Justice League Unlimited approach to the series.
The only ones I want to add are Plastic Man, Aquaman (Arthur Curry), Atom (Ray Palmer), Blue Beetle (Ted Kord), Phantom Lady (Sandra Knight), & Nightshade. Yeah, I know some are dead or whatever, but I would have put them in.
Posted by Stratum on :
Please note the removal of Booster from that lineup......
!@#$!@#%#!@#%!@#%!@%
Seriously though, it's an interesting lineup but the two people I have beefs with are Kendra and Dinah, mainly because I enjoy the team books they are currently in.
And I hope Roy doesn't take the name I suspect he will....sounds lame to me.
Jamie
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
quote:Originally posted by KryptonKid: Love Black Lightning, hope they do the character justice (pardon the pun).
I don't think there's anything they can do at this point that will satisfy Tony Isabella, who has already expressed dissatisfaction with the character's look.
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
Outside of Red Tornado, I'm not really impressed with the lineup. The proof will be in the stories themselves, I guess.
Interesting to note that this isn't the final line-up, if what the Wizard guy said in the thread is accurate.
Posted by rtvu2 on :
So here are the changes, if someone pretty please could post a before and after that would be awesome.Onto the changes....
Left to Right, Orginal to Replacement/Change Top Animal Man -Batwoman Fire in coustome - now flame on Roy 'Arsenal' -Nighwing Kyle GL - 'Ion'ed Up Guy Gardner- moved Garth 'Tempest'-Mr Teriffic Adam Strange-Hourman Karate Kid-gone The Question- Martian Manhunter
Middle Aquaman - Guy Gardner Black Lighting- John Stewart Booster-Big Barda Red Torando- Flash Elongated Man-Green Arrow
Front Green Arrow- Roy 'Red Arrow'? Flash- Red Torando John Stewart- Black Lighting
Missing/Gone Animal Man - say he isn't dead, but what they said in #1 of JLofA, arghhhhh. Karate Kid Question Adam Strange - same as Animal Man Atom Elongated Man Tempest
Posted by Vee on :
For all the Legion AR completest, there is a mention of a Legion flight ring in this issue when the Big 3 are discussing Red Tornado.
Posted by Stratum on :
Read through it last night and I enjoyed it. I don't think this is going to end well for Reddy but it's a strong start, IMO.
The only thing that bugged was something that bugged me when this was previewed. The big three don't want anyone else involved putting back the JLA because they broke it. Guys, that arrogant attitude is what broke it....
Jamie
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
Interesting that Power Girl isn't in the image that was posted. And it didn't seem like they were going to vote in Vixen. Maybe the Big3 don't exactly get their way when things shake out?
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
RE: Animal Man, we know from Teen Titans that the space heroes haven't made it back yet, OYL, so it seems like there's still hope for him.
Posted by Hunt Drouin on :
Was anyone else disappointed about paying an extra dollar for a shameless plug to buy Meltzer's book? I was excited about an extra length #1 but ended up totally turned off.
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
It was 38 pages of story (48 page comic) along with the Meltzer book chapter. $4 is the going price for this format as we saw in the annuals and the upcoming Mystery in Space, tales of the Unexpected so you didn't pay a dollar for the insert. The only people that paid for that are the comic stores who were charged extra weight on freight.
As for the cross-promotion I haven't read any of Meltzer's novels and didn't read it. Not a fan of the genre but its good that Warner is cross promoting its business units. I'll bet the DC gets more benefit from these things than the other units.
Posted by Hunt Drouin on :
Okay, I guess it actually was an extra length story. I was just looking forward to more JLA with all the left over pages and just deflated when I saw what they were.
[ August 26, 2006, 11:58 AM: Message edited by: Hunt Drouin ]
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
I really like the handle Meltzer seems to have on VIXEN and RED TORNADO, especially. I look forward to seeing how he handles other characters.
I thought the ARSENAL (RED ARROW?)/Hal Jordan scene was sort of strange.
I also don't like that the big three think of themselves as the big three. I call it stupid that they don't seek the input of somebody like BLACK CANARY, who's been around the hero scene longer than any of them (though not *as* a hero the whole time).
It bugs me that Shayera was killed before this series. She would've been *such* a good fit. Sigh. I suppose there's the prospect of a Kendra/Roy Harper fling to rile up Hawkman and Green Arrow.
I understand folks who disliked IC, the plot points and the ending, but I think Brad Meltzer has a way of writing scenes that really reveal an emotional truth underneath a character or scene. In IC, the scenes surrounding the funeral of Sue still stick out in my mind. I'm hoping for similar scenes in this title. And, he writes great villains.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
I thought the ending sequence that jumped around between scenes was really effective. I like Meltzer's writing style and he's good at characterization. I never had any feelings about Red Tornado so I don't mind the change he undergoes, but I hope it doesn't get undone by story's end.
The one thing I minded is something Meltzer did in "IC" -- having Kathy know Batman's secret identity seems wrong. I know they're retconning the past back to them being all buddy-buddy back in the day, but that seems too much. I can understand Hal and Dinah being loose with their ID's but I would think Batman was more secretive.
Also interesting that the guy Black Lightning was talking to was saying how villains are disappearing from the streets and it's got others spooked. It's almost exactly what Goldbug says in this week's "Heroes for Hire".
[ August 26, 2006, 04:35 PM: Message edited by: DrakeB3004 ]
Posted by Omni Craig on :
I was thrilled to see a Legion reference, but wonder how this fits into post-InfCrisis continuity. I doubt Booster Gold (R.I.P.?) even has a flight ring in this 'boot.
It was a fun reference point, to say the least. Couple the flight ring reference to the tunnel under Clark's room as a boy and you've got a number of pre-Crisis threads weaving a potentially interesting throw pillow!!
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
An interesting thing about the Hal/Dinah/Ollie/Roy scene is when Ollie says that they're "putting the band back together" they treat it like they are (hence Ollie being proud). But it doesn't look to me like the Big3 are done with their selections. First time around, I kinda assumed they were contacted off-panel, but they all have their own reason for getting together (Reddy and Kathy) apart from the Big3. It'll be interesting if Hal, Dinah and Roy also independently decided to restart the League.
I also hope they use Hal's "invisi-bubble" again. After a ring function like that's been established, it'll seem stupid not to use it again. (same goes for the telepathic plugs Hal made in "52")
Posted by Disaster Boy on :
like the lineup, reminds me of the satellite era.
glad vixen and black lightning finally made it! (prefere vixen over aquaman....and i dont mind aquaman)
not sure why red arrow is such an addition, especially over green arrow.
also, wish zatanna was there. not excited about kendra but would have loved to see shayera in it, her personality and alien background always gave her a lot more than just being able to fly.
but i am wondering how good the lineup is whne bats supes and wondy get busy. that dosnt seem to happen too much with team comics anymore but it took down the satellite era league.
where is power girl? thought she was a shoe in.
also, not sure how i like the swapping of JSA and JLA team members from year to year.
btw, i actually bought this!!! (i havent bought the JLA since JLInternational!! (except for the giffen maguire run on classified))
Posted by Yellow Kid on :
What's Diana's problem with Nightwing? I for one would like to see more of the "Jr.Justice League" characters join the "grown up" team. Wally made it and now Speedy gets to play in the big leagues so what's wrong with little Dicky Grayson?
I'm assuming (actually) that she thinks that Bruce wants to "stack the deck" with trusted allies and that the original Robin would be his right-hand-man in the League. That's not necessarily true but I wouldn't expect WW to actually know that.
Dick is actually a better team player than Bruce and (I think) a superior team-leader.
...have Diana give me a call and I'll see if I can talk her into changing her vote... Posted by Lightning Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Yellow Kid: What's Diana's problem with Nightwing? I for one would like to see more of the "Jr.Justice League" characters join the "grown up" team. Wally made it and now Speedy gets to play in the big leagues so what's wrong with little Dicky Grayson?
I'm assuming (actually) that she thinks that Bruce wants to "stack the deck" with trusted allies and that the original Robin would be his right-hand-man in the League. That's not necessarily true but I wouldn't expect WW to actually know that.
Dick is actually a better team player than Bruce and (I think) a superior team-leader.
...have Diana give me a call and I'll see if I can talk her into changing her vote...
I'll have to re-read it again but I took it that Diana was kidding with Bruce, saying that if she gave in on ? (can't remember and don't have the issue with me) then she'd fight him on Dick.
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
They were talking about Captain Marvel.
I don't think we'll ever see Nightwing in the League as the same time as Bats, and we won't see it at all under Meltzer's run given what he said on Newsarama.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
Wouldn't it be cool if PLATINUM is the mysterious 'final' member to join? I loved seeing her and Gold again in #1.
Other members of the METAL MEN could rotate to take her place when she's 'out of order', which you know she would be every few issues.
If there's a METAL MEN series in the cards, I'd prefer her there, I guess. It'd be fun to see one of the Metal Men out on their own in the wider DCU, though.
[ September 04, 2006, 01:03 PM: Message edited by: Mystery Lad ]
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
The beginning still reminds me of kids playing some hero card game - especially with Batman's "I want him" comment. I wonder if Meltzer was intentionally harkening back to a more innocent frame of mind or maybe trying to appeal to the card gamers out there?
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Here be spoilers...
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Courtesy of Lying in the Gutters, here is the published cover for JLA #2, revealing the shadowy figures from the preview (also here for your comparison). As noted by Rich, the shadows don't match up to what is revealed and they've changed the color of the bow.
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
I love the line up. While I admit Red Tornado doesn't do much for me...i am tired of the Martian Manhunter in the JLA. Plus RT reminds me of my favorite JLA era...and Meltzer did a great job selling him in issue #1.
Really love Roy Harper! I also was hoping for Garth/Tempest as the next Titan to get promoted to the big time. Just cause he blows away Aquaman. But I'm a bigger fan of Roy's than Garth anyhow. Red Arrow? Eh. Crimson Arrow or Archer may be better.
LOVE the women on the team. UNLIKE the Legion they have aggressive powers! Wonder Woman, Hawkgirl, Black Canary, Vixen, and Power Girl? ouch!
And very glad to see Black Lightning as well. Been waiting forever to see him done right! (hal jordan? eh. I would've preferred any other GL including Gnort).
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
Hm... in the above image, Roy's belt buckle doesn't appear to be an "R" like it was on the cover to #1... it kinda looks more like a "G"...?
Posted by LARDLAD on :
Damn...I was hoping Roller Girl of Boogie Nights would make the lineup. Man, DC has no imagination....
Posted by Yellow Kid on :
Yeah, but which Red Tornado is that? The new human version or the rebooted robot? Interesting possiblities sub-plot wise. Looks like I'm onboard foe a while with this new book.
Posted by Disaster Boy on :
hmmm i miss my android red tornado.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
Well, there's always the Red Inferno (as mentioned in "52"). Considering we already have Dr. Impossible, it'd be interesting if Reddy's "evil twin" were also in on this.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
I like where this is going, but the story itself doesn't seem to be as "big" as this over-hyped relaunch would indicate. I know Meltzer wants to emphasize the personal here, but the mystery around the threat doesn't allow for us to feel that what's happening is all that important and requires a new JLA to deal with.
I like the Canary/Lantern/Arsenal trio. They've known each other a very long time and it shows, but they've mostly been seen in how they relate to Green Arrow, so seeing them without Ollie is a nice change.
the Big3 sit in the cave some more, not doing much of anything other than coming off as pompous. We have Arsenal contradicting Wonder Woman about how good it would be to have Green Arrow, and all this other drama is unfolding while they just deliberate -- I can't tell if Meltzer wants to use them as building towards a climactic formation of the group or if he's really intending for them to come off as insular and a bit full of themselves.
[ September 29, 2006, 12:00 AM: Message edited by: DrakeB3004 ]
Posted by Disaster Boy on :
meanwhile i get way more android red tornados than i could have hoped for. maybe i should watch what i wish for.. Posted by Stratum on :
quote:Originally posted by DrakeB3004: the Big3 sit in the cave some more, not doing much of anything other than coming off as pompous. We have Arsenal contradicting Wonder Woman about how good it would be to have Green Arrow, and all this other drama is unfolding while they just deliberate -- I can't tell if Meltzer wants to use them as building towards a climactic formation of the group or if he's really intending for them to come off as insular and a bit full of themselves.
I have to say that this is my harshest criticism of the whole series so far. We have been told that these three are back to being fast friends and that they have gotten 'over themselves'. But here we see them debating about peoples worth as if they were nothing more than tools to use and then stabbing one another behind their backs as if they were in Jr. High all over again. And the bit about handing Booster suit out to someone they deemed worthy was just wrong.
I like the Canary/Arsenal/GL team up but I didn't need JLA for this. I'd rather have Canary in BoP.
Jamie
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
For me it was worth the price of admission to see Hal take out the Tornadoes.
I really hope things pick up next month though -- at least get the Big3 off their duffs and out of the cave already!
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
Meltzer's clearly taking his time putting the Big 3 into action, likely so the other members can get some spotlight time beforehand. It's a good idea, but I hope we see the whole team together fairly soon.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
The tone so far has been fairly personal in nature, but with the one-two punch of what looks like Amazo and Starro (and god knows who else), it looks like some earth shattering *JLA* action is in the future (at least I hope so).
Posted by Doc Nimbus on :
I'm really enjoying this book so far. I'm hoping they keep "The Big 3" out of action and more in mentoring roles. They've had their time..
Let Vixen, Arsenal, Reddy and the others shine!
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
While I enjoy the fact that the plot seems to be advancing without the Big3, I would prefer to see the team act as a *team* once they all get together. I think seeing the others fight alongside the Big Guns is what will make them look good. I doubt Meltzer will sideline Arsenal or Vixen once they're in the mix.
Posted by Quislet, Esq. on :
I would like Justice League to get beyond the whole Big Three picking who should be in the League.
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
So, is Roy calling himself Arsenal here? Does he wear the costume Turner draws on the cover, or his outfit from The Outsiders?
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
It looks like something closer to what he wore in the Outsiders.
However, someone off-panel refers to him as "Red Arrow". It looks like they were originally going to say "Roy" out loud, and then covered themselves.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
Yeah, that was Green Lantern. It seems silly that he couldn't keep names straight and only said "Red Arrow" to cover himself after almost saying "Roy" *twice*.
It seemed kinda irresponsible to me to remove the Starro by just *ripping it off the man's neck*! I'm sure Superman knows what he's doing, but maybe if there was some explanation for why it was safe to do so might've helped.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
Nice to see the team come together! I'm not sure I even get how Grundy plans on using Amazo to live forever, but that's beside the point. (and didn't Amazo disappear with the android Hourman or something?)
Roy and Hawkgirl?!? Interesting I guess. I'm sure Hawkman will be happy about this (it'll keep up the tradition of Hawkman not getting along with Ollie...)
I'm certainly disapppointed that Geo-Force is looking like the "secret team member". Nothing aginst him, but he never seemed interesting to me. Can anyone shed some light on his character? And what will it mean that there are so many Outsiders on the team?
Posted by MLLASH on :
Benes' art is kicking ass.
Solomon Grundy? Very interesting.
Posted by Blacula on :
This book's got a lot of nay-sayers but I'm one of those really enjoying it! The team's line-up is almost exactly my absolute PERFECT JLA LINE-UP (minus Hawkgirl) so that's obviously got a lot to do with it, but Meltzer's story is also strong and colour me super-excited that Geo-Force is about to join the team! He's a power-house who's been MIA way too long!
Now if only this book would come out more regularly.
Posted by Owl Lad on :
Roy and Hawkgirl also keeps up the tradition of an arrow head involved with another pretty bird.
Posted by Spellbinder on :
I'm liking this series well enough, but I wish the first story had been a little more contained. An issue or two to form the new League, and then more into a longer story arc. 6 months to form the new League is just too much (for me).
I like the lineup well enough (Black Lightning has never been a fav of mine, and I would have preferred Hawkwoman... if she were alive, that is), but with the exception of Zatanna there is no one missing that I really wanted.
I'll be interested to see where the new League hangs their hats. I'm hoping for a Hall of Justice, but that probably won't happen. I'm guessing that they will choose a planetside HQ, to stay closer to the action.
We;ll see Posted by Blacula on :
A Hall of Justice would be kinda neat but I can already see the anti-Superfriends crowd sharpening their sticks at the mere thought of it!
And I would've loved to see Zatanna on this team too. She's one of the few left off my 'Perfect Line-up List'. Given Meltzer's history with the character, though, its not unreasonable to expect that she'll probably show up sooner or later.
Speaking of Black Lightning - his hideously boring outfit and new hairdo (or lack thereof) is probably my biggest gripe about this book so far. He needs a change like, yesterday!
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
quote:Originally posted by Blacula: Given Meltzer's history with [Zatanna], though, its not unreasonable to expect that she'll probably show up sooner or later.
And there ya go -- she pops up at the end of the story as obligatory "deus ex machina" to help hit the cosmic reset button. Personally, I think it would've been interesting to have Reddy be fully human. It's no longer interesting to see him die time and again. His story could've moved on from something other than the fact that he's an android.
I wasn't really thrilled with this arc. After all the hoopla about the formation of the new league, this felt more like a Red Tornado story guest starring the Justice League.
And is it me, or does Meltzer's notion of super hero battles simply involve the heroes piling on top of the bad guy? I can see how he tried to include teamwork, but I didn't think it was a particularly impressive display of their abilites. And what's with the dark tone? Aside from being needlessly gruesome, there was the league "not holding back" and being all ruthless etc. And here I thought things were supposed to be going away from dark stories and getting a bit back to more fun.
Oh yeah, and that sequence where Reddy's hand switches from red to yellow or whatever wasn't very clear at all what was going on.
Posted by Arachne on :
quote:Originally posted by DrakeB3004: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Blacula: [qb] And here I thought things were supposed to be going away from dark stories and getting a bit back to more fun.
Of course. Nothing says fun like a bit of cannibalism.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
Yeah, but Vixen had a great moment, I thought. Dive-bombing the bad guy. I'm glad that she, Black Lightning and Roy are on the team. I hope this lasts past Brad's stint as writer.
Is Geo-Force going to be in the League? I hope so, as he should be used *somewhere* regularly.
I was disappointed that Red Tornado is back in his metal body, too. Still, now that he knows he could be human, maybe a 'tougher' body'll make itself available one of these days.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
quote:Originally posted by Arachne: Nothing says fun like a bit of cannibalism.
Well, technically it wasn't cannibalism - Grundy's a walking plant type thing after all...
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
I like how Meltzer handled this. He made us happy for RT...that he got a real body and then he took it all away. It was a pretty good arc.
Posted by Arachne on :
quote:Originally posted by DrakeB3004: Well, technically it wasn't cannibalism - Grundy's a walking plant type thing after all...
Is he? You learn something new every day. Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
Oh yeah, one more thing about #6. Didn't they make it seem like Amazo was going critical and about to blow up? Then nothing happened. Did I read it wrong cuz I really didn't understand that part.
And an interview with Meltzer about #7 coming out this week: Newsarama interview Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
I read the interview and liked what Brad said. He set up everything to come together nicely to form a team and told a good story with good character work. Been waiting for a JLA story like this for a LOOONG time.
Grant Morrisson brought back the big 7 but never really did any character work it was all plot. Sure it was fun and great but I needed more superhero soap opera aka character work. Posted by Spellbinder on :
I'm kinda curious to see what they end up with for a headquarters. I'm guessing something Earth-bound, but we'll see.
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
quote:Originally posted by Spellbinder: I'm kinda curious to see what they end up with for a headquarters. I'm guessing something Earth-bound, but we'll see.
Yeah me too. I think earthbound as well since they were just on the moon. But the satellite wouldn't suprise me. Or the Hall of Justice. Posted by Spellbinder on :
The geek in me is hoping for the Hall of Justice, but the nostalgic fan in me would like to see the satellite rebuilt. I can do without the cave or watchtower.
Posted by rtvu2 on :
How about a floating Hall of Justice that can transport them whereever?
Or its a tessaract that the leaguers can access from anywhere. A virtual headquarters.
Posted by doublechinner on :
I'd like to see a mansion on 5th Avenue, paid for by Bruce Wayne. With a butler. .)
Like many, I found the whole Grundy/Ivo/Amazo/Tornado thing too confusing. I did, however, love the arc that RT goes through. Now that we know it was sort of a joke, I like the idea of the big 3 sitting on their tushes in the Batcave, oblivious to what's really going on.
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
I am with Spellbinder. I'm a satellite fan but I would just geek out for the HOJ.
DC, I found it a tad confusing and the JLA Classified story arc coming up about the Son of Amazo is going to confuse me more I think.
Posted by Vee on :
There are going to be some very happy nostalgic geeks around here I suspect! Posted by wndola1 on :
from brad meltzer's blog:
quote:Wish this weren't so, but just found out there's a misplaced page in JLA 7. Thanks to an extra ad, Page 30, for some reason, runs before page 26. It oddly still somehow reads okay (kinda), but for the optimum reading experience, there's how it should go. (The whole Star City scene should read together). Sorry for that one.
B
Posted by thinbalion on :
This may be of interest to us Legion fans, on the last page we find out that Trident is really...
Click Here For A SpoilerVal Armorr... in other words Karate Kid, which raises all kinds of questions. Is this pre-crisis Karate Kis like the other Legionnaires showing up, or the new one who has been shown in the Countdown promos. Not to mention how come he's a villain... Either way this leads us into the Lightning saga.
--- NVM, just noticed this was already up in the Recent Sightings thread up in the Legion section...
[ April 04, 2007, 05:38 PM: Message edited by: thinbalion ]
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by rtvu2: How about a floating Hall of Justice that can transport them whereever?
Or its a tessaract that the leaguers can access from anywhere. A virtual headquarters.
That second one is the HQ for the new Freedom Fighters. There's a real boom in the Super-hero HQ real estate market these days. I bet you the DCU and Marvel Universe mortgage brokers are having a field day.
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
quote:Originally posted by Tamper Lad: [I bet you the DCU and Marvel Universe mortgage brokers are having a field day.
Well since Marvel is so closely based in reality with all the subprime business and WW Hulk coming up I heard prices have dropped sharply.
Stark is behind it all. He wanted to buy a new tower. Read about it in Front Line.
Posted by Hunt Drouin on :
Thank you wndola1 for posting that note. I was reading the story (LOVED it, btw) and stumbled over that page trying to figure out where it goes. Gotta go reread now ;-)
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Those of you thrilled with this issue might note the groovy cover was designed by our very own Eric Wight!
Then check out My Dead Girlfriend! You'll love it!
[ April 04, 2007, 07:47 PM: Message edited by: Eryk Davis Ester ]
Posted by wndola1 on :
quote:Originally posted by thinbalion: This may be of interest to us Legion fans, on the last page we find out that Trident is really...
The real question is who is Trident?
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Ultra Jorge:
quote:Originally posted by Tamper Lad: [I bet you the DCU and Marvel Universe mortgage brokers are having a field day.
Well since Marvel is so closely based in reality with all the subprime business and WW Hulk coming up I heard prices have dropped sharply.
Stark is behind it all. He wanted to buy a new tower. Read about it in Front Line.
Subprime to the Justice League is okay. When the Defenders, Great Lake Avengers and Doom Patrol got the same deal the financiers got into trouble.
I really liked the new HQ. Sort of combines the geekery the twin 70s fetishes of the satellite and the Superfriends. I don't even have trouble with Washington DC as HQ for the world's defenders as long as its clear that there are superteams based in other countries as well.
Posted by rtvu2 on :
I agree with Tamper. I like the Hall, and the satellite is pretty cool. Its so huge, are they going to do an Unlimted thing where all the heroes are members?
Posted by the boy with UltraPowers on :
good issue, and i liked the introduction of the HALL !! but when did the JSA and ALL STAR SQUADRON have HQ's in Washington !!?? as far as i remember, they were both based in New York !!
Matthew.
Posted by Bicycle Repair Man on :
The All-Star Squadron was based in New York (the World's Fairgrounds, to be precise). The Justice Society moved to New York relatively recently; for most of their history, their HQ was in Gotham City. However, during World War 2 the JSA was known for a time as the "Justice Battalion", and operated out of Washington, DC.
Posted by Disaster Boy on :
i like the hall but not the weird portals to a space hq. one or the other. they should just have the hall as an office or something.
Click Here For A Spoileri want geo force on the team soon. love the additions of speedy, vixen, hawkgirl, and black lightning. want zatanna on the team though. blck canary as leader. love her but i dont know Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
Maybe Geo-Force is a red herring and the new member will be Karate Kid after all!! (maybe...)
I like the Hall of Justice, but am I the only one bothered by the fact that it's not even? There are noticably more columns on one side of the central arch. Maybe I'm just nitpicky...
And while the satellite is cool, the whole "Bruce Wayne paid for it" excuse doesn't fly for me - lookit how big it is! And I hope they explain why the government doesn't mind (or notice). The "kitchen" should hopefully provide a lot of good character moments betwen members (it worked for that other team...)
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
Loved this issue. This is a perfect superhero comic for me. I always love the inbetween the fighting issue. The interaction was spot on. Loved the art.
Loved the art, the Hall, the satellite, etc. (i do see both as a bit strange and don't care for the slideways stuff but ohwell).
Red Arrow? Crimson Arrow sound better? It doesn't matter. Like to Geo-Force involved. Wouldn't mind a few more to join but I love this lineup! Meltzer has impressed me. Maybe Marvel can steal him to write the Real Avengers.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
Interesting that the big team-up will have Black Canary and Power Girl as leaders. And I wonder who Vixen was talking to on the phone?
I thought it was funny that it was the Hal group that beat The Big3 to the chase about deciding the lineup. It makes sense though since Hal's been portrayed as a more impetuous man of action whereas Bats is the deliberator/planner.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
I like the new line-up and Dinah's new status. I hope the other former Titans (esp. Nightwing, Tempest, and Donna) will form the nucleus of the reserves, if there's going to be one.
I'm curious about Geo-Force. I always have been drawn to him without knowing all that much about him. Will he join officially? Or will his new powers and his journey learning about them be a sort of test case for the new League's process in dealing with other super-heroes?
The Hall of Justice is another cartoon/movie/TV show element working its way into the DCU proper, joining things like the WW spin, teen-age Raven, Changeling-turned-back-into-Beast Boy...
I wonder how planned that is? On the editorial level, I mean.
I liked reading Brad's thinking about the HQ. His comments made me appreciate the linkage more. It's an impressive visual... but, for me, it doesn't yet immediately evoke 'Justice League' the way Titans Tower does the Teen Titans or the way either the upside-down spaceship or the orange futuristic complex with the big ol' L on it does the LSH.
Maybe it will someday.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
Regarding Starro: So are they saying that the Starro we've been seeing is only the "herald" for another "host" organism? Something even bigger?
Another interesting thing Meltzer is doing here is bringing together not just the JLA with the JSA and the LSH for the next arc, there are other influences coming in to make the whole DC heroic family seem tighter. Several of the team members were Outsiders, Geo-Force's storyline directly relates to the Teen Titans. Karate Kid shows up as a Titans villain, there's the nod to Niles Caulder of Doom Patrol (more an inside joke about the Danger Room, but still...) etc.
Posted by Spellbinder on :
quote:Originally posted by DrakeB3004: I like the Hall of Justice, but am I the only one bothered by the fact that it's not even? There are noticably more columns on one side of the central arch. Maybe I'm just nitpicky...
Yeah, the Hall seemed a little architecturally off to me as well. Still kinda like it, though.
I like the concept, but the whole thing still seems kinda... big. I mean, I'm assuming that there is more to the satellite than just a training room, cuz it's kinda huge. Maybe too huge. I dunno. I would have been just as happy with rebuilding the original satellite, rather than kinda copying the Unlimited headquarters.
Still kinda cool though.
Hmmm... kinda abusing the word "kinda" in this post. I should kinda watch that
Oh, and maybe it's just me, but I would have preferred that Roy keep the Arsenal name. I've never been on board with forcing the former sidekicks (who have grown up and taken on their own identities) to revert back into homages to their former mentors. I suppose Aqua-Mage, Wonder Twentysomething and Batwing are just around the corner...
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
quote:Originally posted by Spellbinder: [QUOTE] Oh, and maybe it's just me, but I would have preferred that Roy keep the Arsenal name. I've never been on board with forcing the former sidekicks (who have grown up and taken on their own identities) to revert back into homages to their former mentors. I suppose Aqua-Mage, Wonder Twentysomething and Batwing are just around the corner...
I agree. Red Arrow doesn't have a ring to it. It's aight but I liked Arsenal as well. Don't mind the costume just the name. It's not a biggie though.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
Can we call Roy "Reddy" as well now?
Red Arrow Red Tornado Black Canary Black Lightning Green Lantern
Is this the JLA or the rainbow coalition?
Posted by MLLASH on :
quote:Originally posted by DrakeB3004:
Another interesting thing Meltzer is doing here is bringing together not just the JLA with the JSA and the LSH for the next arc, there are other influences coming in to make the whole DC heroic family seem tighter. Several of the team members were Outsiders, Geo-Force's storyline directly relates to the Teen Titans. Karate Kid shows up as a Titans villain, there's the nod to Niles Caulder of Doom Patrol (more an inside joke about the Danger Room, but still...) etc.
Wow, nice catch. It's got to be more than coincidence. Reddy also ties the team in to Primal Force.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
It could also be that Meltzer is just using JLA as his way to play with the DCU in general. Either way, it's nice that he's not just sticking to the traditional JLA sandbox.
Even though I like the idea of Canary as the leader, Meltzer was obviously trying to misdirect the reader into thinking Vixen was talking about Wonder Woman. The more I think about it though, the more I think I would rather it actually was her.
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
The real cover of JLA 8 from Brad Meltzer's Blog.
Click Here For A Spoiler
Posted by Omni Craig on :
Based on that picture, KK must also be preboot, like Star Boy. Previous teasers for Val have shown him in the current uniform.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
quote: The JSA/JLA stuff won't impact on my LEGION issues, but it will echo elsewhere in a very high-profile way. (sorry to be so vague, but I'm never sure what cards DC wants to keep close to their vest)
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
In a very high-profile way? Will I think the PC Legion is returning. (Hopefully with Geoff Johns who already seems to know what the heck he is doing with the Legion though he writes the JSA)
The way Geoff handled the Titans and JSA I just knew he would do this Legion.
You know how many people have said they would love to work on the Legion but the real Legion? Jim Lee and George Perez for two.
Posted by Hunt Drouin on :
PLEASE! Geoff Johns on Legion (pre-Crisis or Otherwise) would be a dream come true! Match it with the high profile artists you mentioned and I'll buy dozens of copies a month (well, more than one...how's that?).
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
Why is KK's neck so thin? He looks like a bobble-head...
ok, so really -- when's pre-boot WILDFIRE gonna show up? Cuz you know they're doing all this just to bring him back!! Posted by wndola1 on :
I finnally cracked my non-comics coworker. She's been walking to the Comic shop with me for months and this week decided to buy some. One of the ones she picked up was JLA 6 because I showed her the scenes with Vixen. It was really interesting to see her view point as someone without any emotional attatchments to the characters. My husband was appaulaed at how poor Tornado suffered, I admired his courage and willpower, but my friend just went on about how cool it was when he snapped Grundy in half. I was also surprised at how much of the story she was able to grasp with pretty much no knowledge of the DCU and jumping in in the middle of the arc.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
Anyone catch the JLA origin in "52"? Looks like they finally came to a meeting place between the original origin with Wonder Woman and the post-Crisis "Year One" origin with Black Canary -- they were *both* founders! the "core team" was the team in the Y1 mini, with the Big3 being there for the formation, but were part-timers until later.
Personally, I'm very comfortable with that.
Posted by Jerry on :
I just finished reading JLA #11. I'm stunned. It is the most powerful comic book reading experience I've had in years. Sorry Meltzer critics. You no longer have a leg to stand on.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
Oh god! MY LEGS!!! Posted by Quislet, Esq. on :
It was a very good issue.
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
Jerry, I've been loving the JLA and can't wait to read this!
Posted by Jerry on :
quote:Originally posted by DrakeB3004: Oh god! MY LEGS!!!
I'm sure we can find you some legs from an old Red Tornado body, Drake.
Jorge, I think you'll like it.
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
I don't doubt Meltzer's ability to craft an emotional plot and even good dialogue within that plot.
I have a serious question about his pacing and action scenes. This was a nice issue though.
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
Just read it and it was nice. I actually felt I was stuck in there and couldn't breathe.
Interesting tidbit about Vixen's powers, btw.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
Ok, I just read it.
It read to me like one of those throw-away filler issues. I didn't like it. The drama didn't draw me in, I never really felt their peril because I knew they were going to be ok by the end, I didn't even understand how they kept breaking through the hole then plugging it up (how many of those gummy arrows did he have?), or how he plugged the hole but the chord was still free enough to be pulled, or how he was even able to reach the hole that Vixen escaped through since he was pinned and he could barely rach her to hand her the arrow in the first place etc...
I have nothing against the notion of doing an issue like this, but I didn't think it was done very well.
And HOW is Vixen getting away with being in the JLA for two months without anyone saying anything about her not having her powers?? (or an altered form of) Two months seems way too long. It already seems like this team hasn't really done all that much since getting together, but to say that it's been two months makes it worse. Roy says Marie is in the JLA because "she's a fighter" - does that mean the rest of the team is just ok with some majorly depowered team member and keeps her around cuz they like her spunk? This is the *JLA*, not X-Factor. I dunno ... it all rubs me the wrong way...
Posted by Jerry on :
Sorry you didn't like it, Drake. The drama did draw me in, and I felt their peril to the point where my own claustropobic impulses started to kick in while reading it. Comics are going through a period where one of the major critcisms is that death is all too common, used for shock value, and has little meaning because of frequent reversals. I was reading comic books back when deaths were infrequent and you typically knew the characters would survive. It doesn't weaken the story for me that I knew they would survive. It was conveyed very strongly that they felt they weren't going to survive, and I felt their fear. That's a sign of strong writing for me. If the writer can get me out of my own head, and into the head of a character, then he or she has succeeded.
The concept of "fill in" versus "self contained" is also important. Continuing stories are the norm these days, and monthly comics are frequently written with the knowledge that the story will appear in a collected edition. This story felt like it was written for the format in which it appeared, and easily stands on its own. I liked that. While not Benes, the artist used had a style that was a good match for the story being told. A DC editor asked recently, in a DC Nation column, for fan input on how to handle production delays and whether we would be satisfied with fill in artists during multiple part stories. This issue was a good example of how such delays can be prevented, and how self contained stories can be used to keep a monthly on schedule. I can't dismiss it as "just a fill in".
How has Vixen gotten by for the last two months? By lying to her teammates and leeching their powers. Too often comic book heores trade unrealistic banter and put downs in the middle of dire circumstances. I liked the way Roy and Mari dealt with this reveal and quickly moved into problem solving mode. There will be consequences, but this wasn't the time to worry about it.
I liked the failed attempts at gaining freedom. They drew the drama out. I also liked the twist ending. Clever. I didn't see it coming at all.
I liked the relevance of the story. We are a nation at war. Super Hero comics don't invite much relevance these days, because their powers would quickly resolve the problems of the real world. So we get multiverses, reality tinkering, omnipotent wizards, and aliens. Nothing wrong with that. However, it is nice to get a change of pace. Real bombs and terrorist attacks cause buildings to collapse. The Sago mine distaster is still fresh enough that the horror of being buried alive resonates.
Finally, I really enjoyed the use of the medium. There is great potential for art in graphic storytelling that is seldom relaized. It won't be realized it creators don't experiment and play around a bit. The mood, the color, the unique use of panels and darkness, and finally having to turn the book sideways and upside down as the twist is revealed added to the confusion. Again, allowing the reader to get into the characters' head and feel the same confusion they were feeling.
As we have our fan boy and fan girl discussions about what we like and don't like, what we want to see and don't want to see, the phrase, "I want to see good writing", is frequently used. In my opinion, this was good writing and should be recognized.
[ July 20, 2007, 02:02 AM: Message edited by: Jerry ]
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Merged Jerry's thread about JLA #11 into the regular JLA thread.
Posted by Lad Boy on :
I agree with you completely, Jerry. By the time I got to the last panel, I had been holding my breath for last three pages.
These are two characters that I barely know, but I cared about their survival, and actually thought one or both might die.
The situation could easily have been portrayed in a way that exploited the tragedy of people trapped in the Pentagon or WTC in 2001, but it wasn't.
There certainly were aspects of the story that required you to suspend your belief in physics for a moment, but it's a comic book that features a woman who absorbs animal powers; you open the cover with a certain amount of suspended belief.
My favorite comic of the week.
Posted by Vee on :
JLA #12....bleh!
Has naything actually happened in this series since it's launch? Doesn't really feel like it after 12 issues. I sure hope things change dramatically with the arrival of the new creative team or this version of the JLA may well have the shortest run ever.
Posted by Lad Boy on :
In a kind of strange way, I'm enjoying the relative quiet pace of the JLA/JSA series as a countermeasure to the overcrowded dumping ground of 52 and Countdown.
But, I'd rather see this idea of a weekly crossover backbone for the DCU dropped and good story telling return to the individual titles. I guess that's kind of quaint, outdated notion.
Posted by Lad Boy on :
I guess the renovations are necessary since we last saw it crumbling into the Potomac --
FROM THE GROUND UP Watergate Hotel Shuts Down to Spruce Up
By Allan Lengel
Washington Post Staff Writer Monday, August 6, 2007; Page D01
At the Watergate complex, the hotel's reception desk was suddenly empty last week. So was the lobby. Ditto for the 250 rooms.
"We apologize for the inconvenience," said a typed note on hotel stationery that was taped to the front entrance. "But as of Aug. 1, 2007, the Watergate Hotel is closed for renovations."
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
I like issue #12. It's one of those behind the scenes issues. Monitor duty, them changing shifts. I love that kind of stuff.
Not sure how I feel about the Roy/Kendra stuff. But it is Kendra not Shiera. In the last issue of Hawkgirl Shiera's soul left Kendra's body I believe. As long it's Kendra sleeping with Roy I'm fine. Hawkman might still kick his ass.
And it was mentioned Kendra's daughter is dead. She gave her up for adoption. Did Meltzer mess up or Kendra is hiding the fact she has a daughter so her enemies won't go after her?
Posted by Quislet, Esq. on :
I wonder how many of the loose ends get resolved. Mari's power loss, Brion's power problems, Red Tornado's isolation, and I guess the relationship between Roy & Kendra (which I didn't like)
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
Well it's Mari's new powers. And the Deathstroke/Geo Force subplot sounds pretty cool.
Posted by Omni Craig on :
Hate, hate, hate the Roy/Kendra pairing!!
I think Roy has bedded more superheroines & villainesses than any other DC hero. I guess they are saying the apple doesn't fall far from the tree???
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
Wasn't a bad issue. Wasn't a great issue.
Unless I'm missing something, that can't really be Arthur with J'Onn near the end of the issue, though.
Looking forward to seeing what McDuffie brings to the table.
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
Outdoor Miner, I am confused about the Aquaman thing as well. I think it's one of those Crisis things.
Posted by thor2168 on :
So, is Karate Kid going to be in The Justice League or not? If not I drop the title. If so I keep. Anyone know?
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
No idea.
I believe McDuffie has talked about an addition or two to the lineup but nothing definite yet.
If that's what is keeping you on the book, probably best to save your money until we know for sure.
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
It's been hinted McDuffie is going to swap Hal for John, and future cover solicts back that up. But I think it's been confirmed KK won't be a Leaguer.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
Man, I HATE that Hal's not going to be in the Injustice League storyline! Chalk it down to being an irrational Hal-fan, but I'm actually thinking of dropping the title.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Well, I'm looking forward to McDuffie and no more Meltzer. At the end of the day, there's just too much I hate about Meltzer's writing that outweighs the good. I really hate his dynamic between the heroes.
Hate the Roy/Kendra pairing. Its so fan-fiction it hurts.
I think the League has a great line-up right now, but we've yet to have a good story with them. If that doesn't change soon, more than likely this line-up will be looked on as very poor.
Posted by Stratum on :
Cobie, you've summed up everything that I cannot stand about the new series. If it wasn't for the Lightning Saga and the revelation that McDuffie is coming on board, I would have dropped this after Tornado's Path.
Jamie
Posted by Hunt Drouin on :
Okay, so no one has posted sine # 13 came out? What do you think?
I'm having a bit of a hard time looking at this "new" Injustice League. What makes it different than the Society that has been so active during Infinaite Crisis and beyond?
I'm really liking the interaction between some of the characters, ala Vixen and Superman. I'm still not comfortable with where Black Canary is headed. It seems like we've gotten a lot of mixed messages with all the attention on her wedding.
I love the line up and want to see some fun things done with them. Done properly, it can be one of the best line-ups ever!
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
What's with McDuffie shoe-horning in a possible relationship between John Stewart and Hawkgirl? Meltzer just spent 12 issues setting her up with Red Arrow and now he's trying to recreate the JLU here? This is the comic, not the cartooon. Hawkgirl is just going to come off as a plaything being passed around the team if he tries forcing this on us.
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
The thing is...is this the same Hawkgirl. In the last issue of her series it seems Shiera Sanders' soul left Kendra's body.
Kendra is a bit more wild than Shiera. But I agree not a fan of remaking the cartoon. John Stewart and Vixen on the other hand? I like. Hawkgirl is just too complicated.
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
Meltzer I liked and McDuffie I like as well.
Cobie, Roy/Kendra is totally in character. We have two young hotdog characters? I see it as just natural.
John Stewart/Hawkgirl on the other hand? Yeah that doesn't make much sense.
Anyways, I liked the latest issue BUT have some issues.
Batman, Red Arrow, Wonder Woman have been kidnapped. BATMAN and WONDER WOMAN?! Black Canary turns down help from Green Arrow? What? It wasn't like it was Robin and Wonder Girl that got kidnapped. I would be calling in the reserves! I mean maybe not too many but atleats 4 or 5 others to help. But watching BC turn down GA's help? Not sure about that Mr. McDuffie!!!
Still loved the issue.
Posted by Chemical King on :
Well I'm very critical concerning Meltzers writing, so his leaving kept ME from leaving the book - again - for the while being. Meltzers writing often leaves me confused, feeling that I missed something that I didn't. So I left the current JLA book after three issues and only came back for - what else - the Lightning Saga. Which was - especially the JLA issues - confusing AGAIN.
#13 I liked though. It was a streamlined Superhero story where you could actually tell where everybody was at which time all issue long. Kind of relaxing feeling after so much convoluted stuff going on in the DCU. I am eager to see how they will get the heroes out of this situation, and I like the current lineup.
Still think that JSA is better written, but McDuffie is off to a good start, I'll wait and read and see.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Gotta say, McDuffie just isn't doing it for me either. This Injustice League storyline isn't my cup of tea, and its mainly from a writing standpoint that I'm feeling that way.
Superman feels completely out of character to the point where's its distracting as all hell.
I *want* to love this JLA. I really do. But I'm having a tough time doing so. Maybe its because JSA is just so much better.
Posted by Caliente on :
And as McDuffie's first arc comes to an end, one word seems to sum up the last issue: anti-climactic. Sure, there were things I liked (mostly, I will admit, relating to characterization) but overall, I found it to be rather disappointing.
But, hey-- maybe things will pick up when my boy Wally joins up. (Probably not.)
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Yeah, I hope. I've yet to see a decent story with this JLA line-up. Its one of those things...the line-up could be all awesome and stuff, but if we're not getting good stories, I'll always remember it as suck-ville.
Posted by Future on :
I'm glad to see this thread and totally want to jump in and agree with Caliente. The whole Legion of Doom set-up could have been a long-lasting, far-reaching thing. The way it ended was so abrupt I had to wonder if I missed an issue.
Nothing much seemed to come of this except yet another Leaguer and an end to a cool villain set-up. Although I'm a Legion fan and liked the largescale JLU concept (and the 14 member JLA Morrison roster), I have to say I'm not digging the growing roster of this League. I'd be more behind it if, like Cobie, I felt they had really made a name for themself already. A lot of members don't seem like they've done much. I was 100% behind this team when I heard about it, and while I still like this book my interest is dwindling.
I'm a big Wally fan too, Cal, and I thought he was already part of the team. It sure doesn't feel like it though and this may contribute to me feeling the roster is getting too big.
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
I agree and wasn't impressed. It all seemed a bit generic for some reason. Like a Super Powers comic that came with the toy.
I'm a big fan of McDuffie and am waiting for more. Eh, the Firestorm I don't like joined.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
The funny thing is the current JLA is causing me to *lose* interest in Vixen, Roy and Geo-Force, when I had thought it would do the opposite. I generally like all three characters and have for years, while they've never been my favorites. The current JLA (since #1) hasn't helped their cause for me.
I like the idea of John and Hal switching on and off in the League every few storylines. That could be fun and give both characters a way to interact with the League.
Posted by Caliente on :
quote:Originally posted by Future: I'm a big Wally fan too, Cal, and I thought he was already part of the team. It sure doesn't feel like it though and this may contribute to me feeling the roster is getting too big.
Yeah, he is-- he joined at the end of the Lightning Saga. But since he has yet to show up in any other JLA issues, I meant that maybe he'll join the team in their book for, like, an adventure.
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: The funny thing is the current JLA is causing me to *lose* interest in Vixen, Roy and Geo-Force, when I had thought it would do the opposite. I generally like all three characters and have for years, while they've never been my favorites. The current JLA (since #1) hasn't helped their cause for me.
Ditto for me RE: Vixen and Geo-Force, especially the former. (Roy's my boy! Titans, w00t~) I never cared for/about her and now... I actually think she kind of sucks as opposed to my earlier opinion.
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: I like the idea of John and Hal switching on and off in the League every few storylines. That could be fun and give both characters a way to interact with the League.
Oh, me too! It really puts them on more even ground. They're supposed to be sector partners, y'know? This way, I feel like they actually are.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Exactly! That's what I was thinking too.
I have to agree about Vixen. I've seen her on covers, pin-ups of her, and discussions about her, and a limited view of her in Suicide Squad. Now that I'm reading stories with her, I'm finding her annoying. That should not be the case!
Can't wait for Wally to be in some adventures too.
Posted by Future on :
I too am behind the equality swapping of the GLs, though it sounds like John is already getting the boot somewhere down the line in favor of Hal. I read this SOMEWHERE. I'll get better with my sources.
I've never been a Geo-Force fan, mostly from lack of exposure, though I wouldn't mind seeing more of him. And while I'm okay with what they're doing with Vixen, I'm not flipping over it. Likewise with Roy. I'm not being driven to hate him but I'm definitely looking forward to him more in the new Titans book than the title he's already in.
Posted by Caliente on :
Ooh, y'know what else irritates me-- Red Tornado. I loved him in Young Justice and now not so much. They need to abuse him less. He was so fun before...
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I can't help but find Roy as 'Red Arrow' and having 'Ollie's spot' immensely annoying since he hasn't done anything in a year and a half (real time).
Everything about Roy in JLA screams fan-fiction to me.
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
Man what's the hate for Roy?!
To tell the truth I like Roy and Garth (Tempest) much better than their mentors. And I think they fit the JLA better.
Ollie and Aquaman are tied down. They have more baggage.
Cobie you and I agree about most things but thou art jaded sir! Anything Meltzer has done you dismiss as fan-faction. Methinks if it was another writer you wouldn't hateth so much! Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Well, I'm a big Roy fan and think he has one of the best and most interesting histories in all of comics. I especially like how he grew into Arsenal about ten years ago and has had that role sense.
But man, he's suckin' here Posted by Caliente on :
Aw, don't be such a hater, Cobster. He got Kendra, after all. That's something.
Though the hint that he still has a soft spot for Cheshire in #15 amused me to no end. Still the same ol' Roy, making the same piss poor mistakes when it comes to women.
Posted by Quislet, Esq. on :
Well, I wouldn't say Roy is bad here (or Vixen, Red Tornado, Geo-force, or Black Lightning) just that they are not being used enough. How many of the last issues have involved a huge cast?
I think that both JLA & JSA could do with several issues of single issue or 2 issue stories (no 6 issue arc) featuring just some of the characters, particularly the new guys. Maybe include a page or some frames that foreshadow a coming story. Yeah, highly unlikely in the current "we need a 6 issue story so we can make it into a trade paperback" paradigm.
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
quote:Originally posted by Ultra Jorge: Man what's the hate for Roy?!
To tell the truth I like Roy and Garth (Tempest) much better than their mentors. And I think they fit the JLA better.
Ollie and Aquaman are tied down. They have more baggage.
Cobie you and I agree about most things but thou art jaded sir! Anything Meltzer has done you dismiss as fan-faction. Methinks if it was another writer you wouldn't hateth so much!
I got to agree with the guy in the bird helmet Cobie. Ollie was the first super-hero I liked, from his guest spots on Super-Friends. But when Connor stepped in, Ollie really did seem ready to be put to stud.
And Phil Jimenez and PAD made Tempest just about the coolest Titan. He's grown into the Aquaman role, protector of the oceans and a force to be reckoned with. Sadly, whenever he's put in a story with Orin, he gets downgraded to novice.
Wally filled his mentor's role nicely. Nightwing did a great job carving his own ID. It's time the other Titans get their shot at the big leagues.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Man, I had a great post but lost it.
<----------basically, I said "Fan of Ollie, Roy, Garth and Aquaman".
I like them all and want them all to do well in the medium.
But I don't think I buy into the 'big leagues' notion when it comes to the JLA. Maybe in the Silver Age to the 80's, but not so much anymore. Nightwing is in the big leagues and he's not a JLAer. I'd rather see Garth and Roy follow that path than actually replace Ollie or Aquaman. Roy right now isn't carving out his own identity, he's becoming more derivative of Ollie instead of the opposite.
I agree completely about PAD and Tempest. But I think the same thing could be said about Aquaman himself and PAD. I hate what's been done to Garth post-PAD and how he's been kind of brushed off to the side in recent years.
I have an in-grown distrust of editors-in-chiefs. And I can't help but feel that Ollie is safe, pretty much no matter what. He's been around since the 40's, after all. But Conner and even Roy I get worried about. And I feel the more they try to put him in the mold of 'Standing in for Ollie' the more likely one day they'll be killed off in a DC event or storyline. Because I can't help but feel Ollie's safe, especially post-Hard Travelin' Heroes. Ollie died in the 90's and I knew he'd be ressurected one day. I can't help but feel that he'll stay safe. I like Conner and want him to have a more individual identity, and I like Roy and would prefer him carving out his own place, like Nightwing, to distance himself from such a trend in comics. The change to 'Red Arrow' is too derivative. He was great as Arsenal already, and with a cooler, more individual name.
Jorg, I criticise Melter's JLA as being fan-fiction because that's what it read like . He doesn't right enough comics for me to spread that criticism to other stories (not saying I won't in the future). Its like "hey, how about we put freakin' Geo-Force in the League? Awesome!" and then we get a total of eleven panels of Geo-Force doing something since. Meltzer's JLA...ugh, it was bad
[ December 07, 2007, 11:17 PM: Message edited by: Cobalt Kid ]
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
I agree about Geo-Force being forced in by Meltzer for no apparent reason. I liked the move mind you but as CJ said...he's gotten no air time.
And I agree Cobie that Roy has become a Ollie clone of sorts. I think it was probably the editors that wanted "Red Arrow" cause DC seems to be going through a Kingdom Come love fest. I prefer Arsenal. Just like I prefer Nightwing, Tempest, Troia to their original names. For that matter I wish Conner/Kon-El would come back with a different name like Nightwing did.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
For Geo-Force my only honest exposure to him is the 90's Outsiders series and I liked him there a good deal and have wanted to see him. But his lack of air time is annoying.
I know I sound all complain-y in this thread, but screw it, complaining about comics are the life-blood of message boards . I just feel that the JLA should always be hella-awesome since its very nature implies its one of DC's best offerings.
Posted by Omni Craig on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: I can't help but find Roy as 'Red Arrow' and having 'Ollie's spot' immensely annoying since he hasn't done anything in a year and a half (real time).
Sure he has....Kendra.
What a freakin' lame hookup that was. I don't want to talk about it any longer, I'm sorry I even brought it up! Stupid, stupid, stupid!!
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
Cobie, another reason I didn't see Meltzer run as fan-fic. It's the JLA. Most of their history reads like fan-fic to me.
Seriously, the JLA has never had the depth that the Legion or Avengers had. Always a bit two-dimensional.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
So, is Geo-Force leaving the League for the Outsiders? Or will he be doing double-duty, like Bats?
I like him and want to see how he'd fit in-- same with Vixen, though I want her to get her traditional powers back.
I'm not a League traditionalist, though. I liked the Detroit change (just not the stories told with them), as it was resonant with Cap's Kooky Quartet over at Marvel in The Avengers, an era I find fun and ultimately making the team. So, I'm open to these off-the-wall members.
It's not setting the world on fire, but I'm enjoying this title. I liked the Tangent body-switching thing, I thought it was sort of fun.
The new Firestorm and the new Atom are joining/have joined... that should be interesting.
I thought I'd love Black Canary as leader, but something about her portrayal as such isn't working for me. Dunno what.
Wonder Woman's impressed me more in this series as a Leaguer than in a long time. In small ways.
Red Tornado loses a body *again*? Yeesh, let's have some different beats for Reddy for awhile, OK?
Super-villain armies just aren't as entertaining when they get too large... for me, anyway. Unless they're the complete focus of the storytelling-- which they weren't in the JL issues. Looked good, though. Of course, with a League this large, such an army is required.
If they get a return (leave Luthor out next time, why don't you?), I think it should be in small groups spread out over time, facing handfuls of League members, including reserve characters, building up to some large scheme/smackdown.
Red Arrow... I'm not loving the Kendra connection, but since she's 'only' Kendra now I don't mind as much as I once did. Frankly, I still want Shayera back and probably always will.
The Cheshire stuff was disturbing... I thought Roy'd gotten past cutting her slack. How's he going to feel when she kills the population of a city, or something?
Time to dispel Lian's illusions, I think. Maybe with Donna in the upcoming reunited Titans series?
Posted by Disaster Boy on :
can't wait for the jla to hand the suicide squad their...*ss*s.
not feelin this book even though i keep pickin it up..maybe i pick it up for the art and the satellite era feel the line up has.
hmmm. he vixen has ANIMAL powers. that is all. not people power snatching abilities. she's called the vixen.
Posted by Set on :
After Lightning Saga I pretty much dropped this book, but my impression is that this League could have been really interesting, if only Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and Hal Jordan / Green Lantern had wandered off to be big names somewhere else.
I am *way* more interested in Roy (who is Arsenal, dammit! Red Arrow? Lame!), Vixen and Black Lightning. The dudes who already have their own books are just weighing it down and taking airtime from the interesting characters, IMO.
Then again, I've always been a fan of the ones that get little airtime, like Vixen, Steel, Booster Gold, Phantom Stranger, Oracle, Rocket Red, Hawkwoman and Amazing Man.
The 'old squad' feels just that to me. Old. I'm past ready for Donna Troy to take over being Wonder Woman, Conner Kent to be Superman, Nightwing to take over for Bruce, Kyle Rayner and Wally West to remain the Green Lantern / Flash, rather than constantly have the dead people get ressurected, only to be used poorly, if at all.
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
Set... you are my hero!
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
So another issue featuring Roy and Kendra, you know I had to pick it up. They make a brief appearance, and they don't make an impressive appearance. But they were there.
It's more about The Human Flame, and Libra recruiting him.
And the Trinity have a secret metting place within the Hall of Justice. I dont' like the idea at all, it sounds too exclusive. They rate Canary's performance and Vixen's powers.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I think by this time I'm pretty sick of the Trinity constantly appearing together (and the Trinity weekly hasn't even come out). I feel like we've been beaten over the head with it these last few years.
Honestly Supes & Bats are buddies; Wonder Woman belongs more with the rest of the League. But drawing a distinction between them specifically from the entire rest of the League again and again and again...well, I'm bored with it.
Posted by Stealth on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: I think by this time I'm pretty sick of the Trinity constantly appearing together (and the Trinity weekly hasn't even come out). I feel like we've been beaten over the head with it these last few years.
I agree. And if Mark Bagley wasn't drawing Trinity, I wouldn't have added it to my list, but my reasoning is that if Trinity sells in good numbers, then Bagley will be rewarded with a plum assignment which I would be 100% commited to.
And if anyone's wondering why I'd get a comic written by Kurt Busiek when I dislike his Avengers so much, the answer is that I don't have the same emotional investment in the DC characters that I do in the Marvel characters -- ESPECIALLY NOT the Trinity, even though they've all had their brief moments over the last three years that I've been reading comics again: DnA & Chris Batista's Superman Confidential arc, Paul Dini's first few issues of Detective Comics, bits and pieces of Gail Simone's Wonder Woman...
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
I actually don't mind that particular trio existing as their own little team-within-a-team. Sort of like the Legion's founders, though none of this trio actually *was* a JL founder, I don't think?
Anyway, it sort of resonates with Bats and Supes status with the Justice Society back in the 1940's. Members, but not.
Though it's a rare issue that *doesn't* have the Power Trio (I dislike the Trinity name-- too quasi-religious for me). I'd prefer that it was a real event when all three participate in a Justice League adventure, though one or two of the three can and should be featured often.
I'd prefer they met openly, though. This clandestine stuff hasn't been big enough to merit all the energy they're (the characters) putting in to the secrecy, etc.
I was amused that the *real* JL founders, or at least some of them, had selected a team, trumping their would-be machinations back at the beginning of the series. Keeping a sense of humor in place when presenting them would go a long way towards keeping them palatable.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
New issue's out-- and it moves the Vixen and Red Tornado subplots forward quite a bit. Reading solicits for upcoming months tells you what's happening with Mari.
The RT body drama just needs to stop. I hope there's a definitive end ahead soon. If not, let it rest for a few decades. Or is that such a fundamental part of the character now that a writer wouldn't feel like he or she's writing a Red Tornado story without destroying his body?
The Red Arrow/Hawkgirl gets as big a stamp of approval as it could get in the DCU in this issue. Guess it ain't gonna be just a bit of a fling, after all.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: I was amused that the *real* JL founders, or at least some of them, had selected a team, trumping their would-be machinations back at the beginning of the series.
While I loved that the team lineup ended up falling together without the Big3, the only founder present for the real formation of the current team was Green Lantern. According to current retcontinuity, Wonder Woman has re-replaced Black Canary as a founder.
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
I would have preferred BC being among the original founders, with WW having a similar relationship like Bats or Supes.
Posted by Set on :
quote:Originally posted by CJ Taylor: And the Trinity have a secret metting place within the Hall of Justice. I dont' like the idea at all, it sounds too exclusive. They rate Canary's performance and Vixen's powers.
Some pigs are more equal than other pigs, I guess.
The holy trinity is rating Black Canary's performance? Puh-lease, that's like having Doctor Druid deciding whether or not Thor has what it takes to be an Avenger.
Posted by Quislet, Esq. on :
Well we actually had an issue where Black Canary was the leader.
I also want to see an end to the Red Tornado body story line. Reddy has always been one of my favorite characters, but the story line has just dragged on too long.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
I originally hoped that Meltzer's "Reddy in a human body" storyline would result in an end to the "Reddy gets blown up" storylines. Oh well. Maybe MacDuffie will have better luck.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
#23 features more of the Amazo fight. I like the art, and the story's OK- I've always found Amazo one of the more boring DC villains. Here, he's a bit more computational than I remember him.
It was a kick seeing him duplicate a JLAer's power that I don't remember him using before- that of Zatanna. What he does with it reminds me of an old STAR TREK story- or specifically of a particular image in that story that horrified me as a kid. It's not so much horrifying as 'bout time' here. IMO.
A robot wielding magic? That's a cool idea, a *really* cool one- for anyone else but super-power duplicating Amazo. Magic's just another super-power? Really?
Isn't DC's magic supposed to have consquence and stuff after the recent crises and resolutions? They've never delivered on that promise, have they?
I hope this results in a big power-down for Zatanna and a resolution to the power fluctuations for Vixen.
Decent fight scenes, but it's mostly so much middle.
Posted by Bicycle Repair Man on :
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: It was a kick seeing {Amazo} duplicate a JLAer's power that I don't remember him using before- that of Zatanna. What he does with it reminds me of an old STAR TREK story- or specifically of a particular image in that story that horrified me as a kid.
It reminded me of Twilight Zone: The Movie (specifically, a bit in the segment based on the short story "It's A GOOD Life"). I don't recall seeing it on Star Trek, but it's been a looooong time since I've watched most of the episodes. Can you remember the title, or provide a plot description?
quote: A robot wielding magic? That's a cool idea, a *really* cool one- for anyone else but super-power duplicating Amazo. Magic's just another super-power? Really?
I am also curious about that (I don't remember ever reading an Amazo story with Zatanna in it before). It does raise questions about the relationship between magic and "ordinary" super-powers in the DCU, [cynical]but I won't hold my breath waiting for such questions to actually be *addressed*.[/cynical]
I'm also wondering how Amazo did what he did to Firestorm: is that something the current Firestorm is capable of? I haven't been reading that book. I can't think of anyone else in the League who could do that, except Zatanna - and we didn't see Amazo use a spell in *that* scene. And can the current Firestorm turn intangible? I seem to recall that at least one of the previous Firestorms had learned that trick. If not, then how was Amazo able to escape after being blasted by Green Lantern? Posted by Mystery Lad on :
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bicycle Repair Man: [QB] It reminded me of Twilight Zone: The Movie (specifically, a bit in the segment based on the short story "It's A GOOD Life"). I don't recall seeing it on Star Trek, but it's been a looooong time since I've watched most of the episodes. Can you remember the title, or provide a plot description? [QUOTE][qb]
The episode was "Charlie X" from the original episodes. It wasn't a big scene, but at one point the character- who developed reality-changing power- caused a random female crewmember to walk around without a mouth... like Zatanna.
Posted by MLLASH on :
I read it last night...it was a pretty good battle issue, although one wonders why Amazo didn't use Firestorm's powers to transmute Supes' heart into kryptonite, stuff like that... but a good battle issue. WHAT is that creep that has Vixen and Animal Man as "puppets"?
Posted by Owl Lad on :
Just read the latest JLA, the one with Vixen and Animal Man on the cover. -Thought it strange that they were featured when the story was dominated by the defeat of Amazo, which was a great spotlight on Zatanna. Did she spell "Heal Me" backwards in her own blood? I never knew she could do that. I thought her words had to be uttered.
I'll be interested in how Mari and Buddy are connected and I hope Vixen has her powers returned. Right now, she's too "Rogue-ish" in nature, power-wise.
Posted by MLLASH on :
It's always nice (for me anyway) to see Dinah use her Canary cry. Looks like Zee is going to stick around and I approve.
The cover? Maybe a way to let Animal Man fans know he was appearing and to get them onboard for the next issue, maybe.
Thank space Reddy has a body again. Now can we never EVER have another 'destroyed Red Tornado body' storyline again?
Although the "Amazo not being able to duplicate a soul" thing was a bit of a nice touch.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
I dropped this title awhile ago and flip through every once in awhile in the store, but for some reason it never seems like anything really big enough is happening to justify the attention of "the most powerful heroes on the planet." The stories seem to downplay how powerful they each are for the most part because it seems the writers can't think of anything big enough where they can all be as good as they're supposed to be.
Posted by Owl Lad on :
Have people not been enjoying this run? I thought it was one of DC's better sellers.
I just got through the "double-sized" issue #25. What's up with that lame ending? -And Kendra has a daughter? Where have I been?
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
#25-- I thought Red Tornado and Kathy Sutton were already married?
Kind of underwhelming that the character that seemed to be at the heart of most plots since this series began is taking a leave of absence. I think writers tend to not know what to do with him, so I'm not really surprised. At least there won't be anymore body drama for awhile.
I quite liked Anansi and his god of tales persona. You can't really consider him/it a 'villain', though, can you?
Anansi's M.O. does kind of lend itself to the oft-used 'pretend' scenarios that the hero or heroine has to think-fight their way out of-- though the spider-god's 'editing' was unique and made the reading worthwhile.
I liked the inclusion of Animal Man, and the harkening back to his Vertigo series (but won't those vicious Vertigo editors now try to whisk Buddy back to their clutches? I give you Black Orchid and Fury as examples A and B).
I like these series but it seems quite divorced from events throughout the DCU currently. A condition which can be positive or negative.
[ October 14, 2008, 07:18 AM: Message edited by: Mystery Lad ]
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
This sort of ended abruptly, didn't it? I found the rewritten JLA counterparts pretty interesting, though I would've liked to know more about characters other than Batman. I mean, how many versions of Batty have we seen over the years? It would've been nice to read about this world's Ocean Master or Hawk-- maybe not Brown Bomber. Brown Bomber? Seriously? A bald, fat white guy who says the words 'black power' and turns into a muscular black man? With super-afro manifesting ability? Ha-ha-ha-ha!
Vixen's power's back to normal (thank goodness!)... Anansi proves to be yet another DC character putting heroes through stuff in order to 'make them better'. Fitting for a trickster god, I guess. I do appreciate that Anansi exits as a 'gray' being... he might reappear to aid or battle at any time. If only DC's Ares, Hades, etc. were written with the same mythical scope...
I like Benes art-- I know many don't.
Posted by Owl Lad on :
I echo your sentiments ML. I love Benes's art. Most of the alternate versions of the JLA members were intriguing, but you're right. Brown Bomber. Whose idea of a joke was that? The Korean Green Lantern waving his ring on a stick seemed useless. Why the stick? It seemed cumbersome and impractical for battle. Knock the stick out of his hand and he's out.
The ending where everybody gets quickly zapped home seemed anticlimactic. I would have rather liked to have seen Vixen save her teammates in a more dramatic way to establish her power status among the big guns. I thought she was going to shoot the totem, thinking she was going to have to sacrifice the source of her power only to realize that that was the true test; what was she willing to do to prove her worth and in the end, the reward would be that she would discover she no longer needed the totem, that the animal powers are a part of her, and has always been.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
I like your ending scenario for Vixen, Owl Lad. That would've put more of a puncuation mark on the story's finale.
I read somewhere, after posting my little write-up, that Black Bomber was an early version of Black Lightning that DC was going to publish. It was offered or assigned to Tony Isabella, who reworked the concept into Black Lightning (that may be leaving a lot out). There was no mention whether the earlier BB was a fat white guy who said 'black power', etc.
But the name Black Bomber has evidently been around, so Brown Bomber is a nod to that, I guess.
Kind of interesting, I thought.
Posted by MLLASH on :
People don't like Benes' art? I think he kicks ass.
I just read JLoA 28-29.
28:
My new favorite character is the chick in the Shadow Cabinet who pulls chairs and tanks out of her purse. I now want to buy back-issues of Shadow Cabinet to read her adventures. She kicks freakin' ass.
29:
Eh. FACES of FILLER is more like it. Skip this, if you want. It reveals nothing other than to let us know the Shadow Thief now has a mancrush on Starbreaker, which I'm sure will be revealed as the story really starts next issue.
Posted by Disaster Boy on :
i wish i had a purse like that! kinda like shaman of alpha flight. i skipped issue 29.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
Lash, count me in as one that doesn't like Benes' art on JLA. I've liked it elsewhere, but he has fallen into the 'crosshatching' trap. His art could be clean a vibrant, but it seems like everyone has to have those damned crosshatches, or odd lines on their vaces and bodies.
Man, where's Mike DeCarlo when you need him.
I hate to say it, but the biggest art disappointment to me in the last few years has been a victim of the same thing...our own beloved Iron Mike. I fell in love with his art on Legion, but somewhere along the way, and i first noticed it on Longbow Hunters...he went to the lines. His stuff is freakin' great without it.
Posted by Set on :
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: It would've been nice to read about this world's Ocean Master. I like Benes art-- I know many don't.
I'm also a big fan of Benes art. Very clean lines, reminiscent of Mike Turner, Jim Lee, Karl Kesel and John Byrne.
And yeah, I would have been thrilled to see less of Batdude and more of Ocean Master, whom I've always had a strange fascination with. His relationship with Aquaman always felt like the Garth/Mekt relationship of the 20th century DCU.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Two things:
(1) Benes art is basically saving JLA for me. I just can't get into the writing for some reason. Love the line-up, love the art, hate the writing.
(2) I don't remember the Milestone characters being this cool. My father and I collected all of the Milestone titles in the 90's and I actually thought they were overall pretty weak. Especially Icon and Hardware, which were VERY weak. But here they actually seem to be pretty cool & interesting. That, I have to say, was well done.
Posted by MLLASH on :
And the chick who pulls chairs & tanks from her purse! Don't forget the chick who pulls chairs & tanks from her purse!
I feel what you mean, Cobie. My bf from years ago semi-got into the Milestone characters. I kind-of passed over them with an "eh" because this was when everything was BLOOD-blank or blank-FORCE and just hyper-overdone. I almost considered passing over the Milestone-related JLA issues.
I'm glad I didn't. I really liked those guys!
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I actually waited forever to read the JLA issues because I was like "uh, here we go, crappy characters stuffed into JLA to make McDuffie feel good", and then I was surprisingly into it!
Chuck pulling chairs and tanks out of her force? One or two characters with names like Santa's 8 reindeer? What's better than that?
Posted by MLLASH on :
All they need now is a guy called Rudolph who shoots force-beams from his nostrils!
Posted by MLLASH on :
And of course Vixen is on the wrong team.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
Don't forget the redcircle character Comet!
Oooooh, an all christmas superhero team...so far
Comet, Vixen, Donner, Blitzen..and they just created the villian Cupid over in GA.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
Man, does #31 suffer from DC's jerking around of the Robinson-penned second JL title.
Did Hal announce his other team somewhere else? Did I miss an issue?
Black Canary's barely had the chance to be leader, and she's blaming herself for all the crap going down in the DCU?
Not the Dinah of the last couple of years.
An example of trying to make lemonade from a crate of unexpected lemons that didn't quite work for me.
After month after month of line-up changes in TEEN TITANS and OUTSIDERS, some of which involved current or former JLAers, I really don't want to read another extended recruitment storyline. Especially if it ends up with the same old suspects. But I think that's what we're in for.
Posted by Stealth on :
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: Man, does #31 suffer from DC's jerking around of the Robinson-penned second JL title.
Did Hal announce his other team somewhere else? Did I miss an issue?
Nope and nope. They still haven't made references to it anywhere else, they still haven't solicited it, and Robinson announced recently at a convention that it's been downsized to a limited series. Posted by Mystery Lad on :
Yeah, I knew about the downsizing. So, JLA 31 was the first in-comic mention of Hal's team?
It sure *read* like it'd been a beat in a storyline somewhere or other.
It'd be worthwhile to reread this after whatever is referenced here actually sees publication. This has happened to Macduffie a couple of other times, hasn't it?
I think he's a fine writer, who keeps getting the rug pulled out from under him.
Posted by Stealth on :
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: It sure *read* like it'd been a beat in a storyline somewhere or other.
It probably was supposed to happen that way, but then DiDio changed his mind so many times that the editors couldn't keep track of whether or not to do it, and this is what we ended up with.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
I suspect the artwork is what's keeping Robinson's Justice League off schedule. JLA #31 is a horroble tease - I've been chomping at the bit for this, though the downsizing has affected my enthusiasm. I can only hope Robsinson's already working on a second mini with a faster artist but I won't hold my breath. The fact that we already know it's a mini makes the formation of Hal's team seem almost doomed from the start.
I agree though with the assertion that this JLA hasn't really done anything. It's simply the nature of the beast, but Hal's line about the whole being lesser than sum of its parts was spot on and seems a criticism of the series itself.
The beginning was a bit confusing with Zatanna calling Wonder Woman "Dinah" but it seems like the artist accidentally drew WW there, when it was supposed to be Black Canary standing there. (and does anyone know what the opening sequence of the satellite burning up is referring to? is that happening now or something that happened a long time ago?)
Posted by Owl Lad on :
Drake, I didn't catch the Dinah/WonderWoman blunder.
Isn't anyone else excited about Dr. Light's return? With her powers restored (I didn't know they were gone. Did I miss something?), and her costume slightly tweaked, doesn't everybody think she's due for a name change? As a woman, I'd think she'd want to make a clear delineation from the villain, especially given his horrific crime against Sue.
So, how about it? Anybody got a new name for our returning bright light?
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
I think she lost her powers briefly after the original Dr Light regained his memories and got went on a revenge trip against the Titans or something... I'm glad she's got them back as well. After her role in "Infinite Crisis" there's always seemed to be a lot of untapped potential with her. (despite the JLI tenure)
In terms of a new name, what about a new costume? Hers is still based on the image of the original's. I feel it almost always diminished a character to overhaul them so much, so despite the association, I think she should keep them. (although I don't remember the reason for the similarity in the first place- what was the deal with that again?)
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
quote:Originally posted by Owl Lad: (I didn't know they were gone. Did I miss something?)
... although, reading the page on the thread linked above, maybe if she were to adopt a new name, "Starlight" might not be bad...
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
Cosmic vampire, huh? Well, at least it's not a zombie.
#32 has some nice bits for Dr. Light and Vixen. Firestorm seems much more punkish than I remember reading him in his own series (thought I confess I didn't read every issue...).
Still, I can't help feeling that there's a good deal of 'marking time' going on.
Would a JLA without Supes, Diana or Batty work for long? One without even GL, GA, or Flash?
This was much better than I thought it'd be from the plot descriptions. The discussions between the characters showed what people in a similar situation (team membership shifts... prospect of the whole thing being shut down) might talk about. Will any of that matter when the next shakeup occurs?
Anyway, Shadow Thief was way scary here-- for the first time ever (for me, anyway). That bit where he spit out the shadows from inside his body was creepy as all get out.
He took down a couple of pretty powerful individuals with ease. I halfway wish we could've seen more with just him facing the JLA.
I would've preferred ST accomplished his own power-up without a 'master-summoning' scenario. Mainly because Shadow Thief has always been a villain I just didn't take seriously. I wasn't inclined to take his 'master' seriously, either. But I reluctantly did. All that light-feeding (though how Dr. Light could pull light-energy from the Lyta constellation is a puzzler- though the resulting Omega Men cameo was sort of fun) choreographed like a dance or a vampire-seduction was effective. As was Dr. Light's heroic, if misguided, act of following the self-proclaimed 'god'.
Just how misguided was well-presented in that sad last panel of the character cowering in the dark.
Posted by Stealth on :
James Robinson interview regarding the mini-series starring Hal and Ollie's team, "Justice League: Cry For Justice."
Best bit by far: Robinson comparing Hal and Ollie to Geoff Johns and himself. Something tells me this is going to be the best-written Ollie since the early 80s Mike W. Barr Green Arrow mini-series (I'm not a fan of the Mike Grell Green Arrow.)
Wow, just as I feel like JLA is starting to get good since the relaunch #1, McDuffie is fired from DC. Too bad, I kind of like the 'picking up the pieces' arc right now. The inclusion of Dr. Light was a big plus for me.
Oh well...hopefully we won't have a repeat of the the previous 30+ issues, which are akin to a large portion of the Silver Age: great line-up, but pretty mediocre stories.
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
DC took McDuffie off JLA, but keep an eye out for some Milestone stuff in the future.
As for the Silver Age flavour, with Len Wein wiritng the next few issues, you might have hit the nail on the head there.
Posted by Stealth on :
I'm actually looking forward to Wein's JLA fill-ins. Back in the early 70s, he wrote some excellent JLA stories, and while I'm not expecting anything as good as them, I think we're in for a fun little side-trip.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I'm looking forward to them too. Wein's JLA stories he wrote in the 70's are a high point in Justice League history. Like I've said before, the Silver Age had an awesome line-up and spectacular art, but so many stories are so flat other than the JLA/JSA crossovers (which generally ruled). It wasn't until the hit the Satellite that things got good, and then when Wein came in, they got *great*. I think he can still bring that level of dynamism in his stories, including his "quirkiness" which has always been enjoyable.
Posted by Stealth on :
And I hope this might speed up the reprints of Wein's stories in Showcase: JLoA. I figure the next volume will probably have his first four or five issues, most or all of which I already have in reprints, but the next one will be the real goldmine, since it'll have the Wein issues that haven't been reprinted before (or, in the case of the Libra issue, the print run on the reprint was so small that it quickly became impossible to find.)
Posted by LardLad on :
So...Robinson and Bagley are the new creative team for JLA. Dare I hope that DC's finally found a winning creative team for their flagship title for the first time since Morrison/Porter? And if so, will DC leave Robinson alone, so he can get out from under the crossover constraints that have been crippling JLA throughout it's latest incarnation?
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I'm reservedly optimistic about this new creative team.
Robinson has proven to me several times he's one of comics best writers.
Bagley is dynamic, fun and draws some of the best icons with his unique style (Wonder Woman for one).
The only kink in the armor is DC editorial hampering every thing.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
I have to admit that I wasn't a big fan of what Dwayne was doing, but then i read the thread that caused all the trouble. the constraints that he had to operate under, characters being removed IN THE MIDST OF A STORYLINE was assanine. It would easily have driven even the most sane writer up a wall.
Somehow, I doubt that Robinson will be slapped with these constraints because he is a fair-haired boy. DC still makes beaucoo bucks off the Starman TPB's.
I hope he does a bang up job, but I would have liked to see Dwayne get a chance to tell his stories without all the editorial diddling.
Bagley was okay on spiderman. I don't know how his art has progressed since i didn't read trinity. Hope it got a lot bette because while some cartoony art is okay on Spiderman, JLA is a different animal.
Posted by Stealth on :
When I read the news at CBR I squeaked with delight and did a dance around the room.
Bagley is one of my favorite artists, with plenty of experience handling large casts (New Warriors, Thunderbolts). I only bought Trinity because of him, because I hoped that if I supported that book he would get a plum assignment -- and it paid off! Yay!
Robinson is more of a question mark. He's done fine work in the past, but his Superman work has not been very good IMO, and the preview of Cry For Justice that ran in the back of DC books a couple weeks ago had very weak dialogue. Hopefully he'll get his second wind by the time he starts JLoA.
Posted by Stealth on :
Here's a happy thought: if Robinson doesn't work out, they could replace him with Fabian Nicieza and keep Mark Bagley. Then one of comicdom's Creative Team Supremes would be reunited.
Posted by Stealth on :
I don't know if there's enough people at Legion World interested in Justice League: Cry For Justice for it to warrant its own thread, so I'll post about it here.
On first read, it felt like my worst fears were confirmed: beautiful art at the service of an insipid story. But it's improved upon re-readings, and IMO even Robinson's best work tends to read better as a whole arc than as individual issues. I'm still on board.
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
The art caught my attention, so I picked it up but haven't read it yet. Hoping the story will make it worthwhile.
Posted by LardLad on :
The reviews are all over the place CBR gave it a rare 5-out-of-5 stars, while Newsarama makes it sound like it's as brainless as Jeph Loeb's Red Hulk or somesuch.
Either way, I've bought it and will decide for myself. Posted by Stealth on :
Mauro Cascioli is a talent for sure. Shame the only other comics work he seems to have done is that awful dark and gritty Shazam fiasco.
Posted by Stealth on :
quote:Originally posted by LardLad: The reviews are all over the place CBR gave it a rare 5-out-of-5 stars, while Newsarama makes it sound like it's as brainless as Jeph Loeb's Red Hulk or somesuch.
Either way, I've bought it and will decide for myself.
Red Hulk? Jeezus. Yet another reason for me to prefer CBR to Newsarama.
Even bottom-drawer Robinson, like his Superman vs. Atlas arc, is still better than anything by Jeph Loeb.
Posted by LardLad on :
Well, in Newsarama's favor they didn't actually make that comparison in the article, but that's what their review evoked for me in my mind.
Posted by Stealth on :
Ah, okay. Thanks for clarifying.
Newsarama is still inferior to CBR in my mind, though.
Posted by LardLad on :
You should read both articles I linked, Stealth. Since you've read it, maybe you can address their specific criticisms and praises?
Posted by Stealth on :
I agree I should, but my opinion doesn't just have to do with the quality of their reporting -- the last time I tried to access a Newsarama link, my computer nearly went down.
Posted by LardLad on :
quote:Originally posted by Stealth: I agree I should, but my opinion doesn't just have to do with the quality of their reporting -- the last time I tried to access a Newsarama link, my computer nearly went down.
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
Read it.
Liked pretty much everything about it including the liner notes and two page story in the back. They added a lot to my enjoyment, the book wouldn't have been the same without them.
I did get a bit lost around the "Atom" bit and totally lost after that, not being a huge follower of everything present tense DC.
The premise itself is a bit of an old chestnut but that this time the split isn't "political" but Jordan realizing, he has a job to do that he hasn't really been doing in the "shadow" of the big 3, I think is a slaps head kind of moment and provides a great premise.
In the art I thought there were a few iconic level panels, the opening splash, the next page panel of Supes and the entire third page didn't even need the two words given.
The panel of Hal and Ollie lifting off on the bubble is poster worthy as is the final splash of Congorilla (???).
It will be very difficult to sustain this level of energy I think but all the subplots set-up are something I look forward to following.
Posted by LardLad on :
One thing that I find surprising is that it's taken so long to get Hal an Ollie back into a Justice League ongoing since they both returned to life. To me, they are quintessential leaguers whose very presence as characters can elevate the quality of the storytelling.
Dont't get me wrong--I understand what John Stewart's presence adds to the lineup for diversity's sake. And he's also a really good character in his own right. But I also know the genesis for his inclusion goes back to the successful Justice League cartoon. The bottom line for me is that Hal is the definitive GL, and the iconic representatives of the JLA should always be whomever the definitive version of the character if said character is available.
At first Hal's not being included made good sense. Last anybody'd seen of him, Hal had been a world-beating super villain, so trust was an issue. But when the current series started, all that was water under the bridge by that point. Hal shoulda been made a fixture at that point.
As for Ollie, it was just nonsense to put Roy in over Ollie and rename him Red Arrow?!?!?! Roy just works better as a Titan and had earned his Arsenal name very well. Heck, if anything, Conner woulda made more sense in Ollie's place--he had league experience! But in any case it should have been Ollie anyway. Having Ollie on the team just makes JLA a better book.In a serious way Ollie works better as a JLAer than as a solo character in the long run.
Hopefully, Hal and Ollie will transition to the main book when Robinson takes the reins!
Posted by Stealth on :
quote:Originally posted by LardLad: One thing that I find surprising is that it's taken so long to get Hal an Ollie back into a Justice League ongoing since they both returned to life. To me, they are quintessential leaguers whose very presence as characters can elevate the quality of the storytelling.
Dont't get me wrong--I understand what John Stewart's presence adds to the lineup for diversity's sake. And he's also a really good character in his own right. But I also know the genesis for his inclusion goes back to the successful Justice League cartoon. The bottom line for me is that Hal is the definitive GL, and the iconic representatives of the JLA should always be whomever the definitive version of the character if said character is available.
At first Hal's not being included made good sense. Last anybody'd seen of him, Hal had been a world-beating super villain, so trust was an issue. But when the current series started, all that was water under the bridge by that point. Hal shoulda been made a fixture at that point.
As for Ollie, it was just nonsense to put Roy in over Ollie and rename him Red Arrow?!?!?! Roy just works better as a Titan and had earned his Arsenal name very well. Heck, if anything, Conner woulda made more sense in Ollie's place--he had league experience! But in any case it should have been Ollie anyway. Having Ollie on the team just makes JLA a better book.In a serious way Ollie works better as a JLAer than as a solo character in the long run.
Hopefully, Hal and Ollie will transition to the main book when Robinson takes the reins!
I second all of the above. Posted by Blockade Boy on :
Read both reviews and I'd have to agree with the negative comments on the dialogue. I've felt the same since reading Superman/Mo'nel but they kind of cover that by playing Mo'nel out as a "foreigner." Dialogue has never been a big distractor for me though so the story shines though.
I also agree with one of the comments made by a reader of the Newsarama article. Just because the writer thought it easy to make wise-cracks about elements of the story doesn't mean those wise cracks hit home. For me, as I read the article they came across strained.
Justice vs. Revenge
Most people, when they cry for "justice" are IMO crying for revenge. They talk of closure when the "eye-for-an-eye has occurred even many years later. I guess I've never been able to sustain the emotion of a deed done wrong for me to want "revenge" more than in the moment but I think that's not the norm.
The reviewer's complaints about showing the losses of these heroes or that they're looking for revenge, not justice, did not register with me because the reviewer was lazy, he did not define a difference.
[ July 03, 2009, 05:05 PM: Message edited by: Blockade Boy ]
Posted by LardLad on :
There's a very fine line between justice and revenge, to the point that in many instances they become synonomous. The difference to me is that "justice" is impartial, while "revenge" clearly is not. That's why it is so crucial that judges in court can be entirely neutral and dispassionate in how they guide a case through trial. However, since a judge is human, there is always a very real danger that they may have some sort of bias develop as the case progresses.
If Robinson is smart, as I know he is, he's looking to explore that fine line through the course of this mini. I think the clearly partial Newsarama reviewer might have missed the entire point there.
Posted by LardLad on :
quote:Originally posted by Blockade Boy: Read both reviews and I'd have to agree with the negative comments on the dialogue. I've felt the same since reading Superman/Mo'nel but they kind of cover that by playing Mo'nel out as a "foreigner." Dialogue has never been a big distractor for me though so the story shines though.
For the record I've never really felt that Robinson's dialogue (and his narration, to an extent) has ever been one of his strengths as a writer. If anything, it tends toward verbosity and exposition just this much on the good side of the Claremont scale. I think Robinson's been working on that a little more lately but may have fallen a little too far the other way. So I wasn't exactly looking for sparkling banter in a Robinson comic in the first place.
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by LardLad: There's a very fine line between justice and revenge, ...If Robinson is smart, as I know he is, he's looking to explore that fine line through the course of this mini. I think the clearly partial Newsarama reviewer might have missed the entire point there.
I dont know Robinson but this exploration was my first thought also.
Again, IMO this exploration is a bit of a hero book chestnut but I think Hal's observation of the shadow cast by the big three, is the new spin.
Hal simply stated, he's the "law" and that it's his job to protect. Any policeman would make the same statement. Superman extrapolated that to judge and jury. Hal made no confirmation of that. This scene also confirms to me that Supes understands and is comfortable with that shadow, he felt comfortable speaking for the others.
If this becomes a "Black Adam" remake, I think I'll end up putting this in the fail category. If the writer can come up with an unexpected understanding of the difference between revenge and justice, it will be epic.
Posted by LardLad on :
quote:Originally posted by Blockade Boy: If this becomes a "Black Adam" remake, I think I'll end up putting this in the fail category. If the writer can come up with an unexpected understanding of the difference between revenge and justice, it will be epic.
Yeah, if this were to all boil down to the stereotypical hero scene of Hal or someone poised to deliver a deathblow than either holding back or being talked out of it, this story would be a waste of time. Hopefully, we won't get something so cliche.
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
quote:Originally posted by Blockade Boy:
quote:Originally posted by LardLad: There's a very fine line between justice and revenge, ...If Robinson is smart, as I know he is, he's looking to explore that fine line through the course of this mini. I think the clearly partial Newsarama reviewer might have missed the entire point there.
I dont know Robinson but this exploration was my first thought also.
Again, IMO this exploration is a bit of a hero book chestnut but I think Hal's observation of the shadow cast by the big three, is the new spin.
Hal simply stated, he's the "law" and that it's his job to protect. Any policeman would make the same statement. Superman extrapolated that to judge and jury. Hal made no confirmation of that. This scene also confirms to me that Supes understands and is comfortable with that shadow, he felt comfortable speaking for the others.
If this becomes a "Black Adam" remake, I think I'll end up putting this in the fail category. If the writer can come up with an unexpected understanding of the difference between revenge and justice, it will be epic.
That's what I thought from the opening scene- Hal wanted the League to hunt down Libra and his group, bring them in for justice, not wait around for them to pop up again.
Why was there such opposition?
Posted by Set on :
quote:Originally posted by LardLad: The bottom line for me is that Hal is the definitive GL, and the iconic representatives of the JLA should always be whomever the definitive version of the character if said character is available.
Wow, I've been reading comics with Hal, Barry, Ollie, etc. for 30+ years, and I can't agree here. They've moved on, as characters. Shoving them back onto the team just feels old, to me.
Kyle Rayner is, IMO, the definitive Green Lantern of earth now. Hal didn't just get replaced (many times), but he turned into a mass-murdering psychopath. I'm real fond of a good redemption story, but there's gotta be a line somewhere, or else the Justice League might as well invite some of those people who have murdered many, many less other people, like the Joker and Lex Luthor and Doctor Light (the one with the beard).
No 'yellow fear entity' retcon is going to salvage this character for me, and I had many years to get used to a League without Hal, Ollie or Barry, and to develop a fondness for characters like Kyle and Wally.
I'd be fine with a new Green Lantern, Flash or Green Arrow being a female character, for that matter, with Arrowette or the super-speed girl seen in Justice Society from time to time taking on the mantle of these legacies, rather than have their deaths cheapened by a resurrection that is followed by six months or a year of the character farting around and doing nothing of significance, leading me to wonder why the hell it was so urgent to bring the character back to life, if they couldn't be arsed to *write for them.*
quote:Originally posted by LardLad: As for Ollie, it was just nonsense to put Roy in over Ollie and rename him Red Arrow?!?!?! Roy just works better as a Titan and had earned his Arsenal name very well. Heck, if anything, Conner woulda made more sense in Ollie's place--he had league experience!
And here we agree. Arsenal was an awesome name, and Roy is a great character. I liked how he was moving away from being 'archer-jr' and becoming an expert with an array of other weapons and fighting techniques, all development that seems to have been thrown out the window by his 'Red Arrow' phase. It's a huge step back, and, IMO, the same sort of step back it was to bring Hal, Barry, Ollie, etc. back.
[Awesome new Green Arrow? The hawt Asian zen archer introduced in Longbow Hunters!]
I'm just as disappointed by Nightwing becoming Batman (since, IMO, Nightwing has been a more interesting character for well over a decade).
All of these characters feel like they are abandoning their own identities to take on 'corporate branding.'
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
eh, just on a technicality, but wasn't it some inhabiting entity that was the mass murderer, as opposed to Hal Jordan? I don't follow these things close enough to get the details but I seem to recall from a GL series last year or so, them mentioning a ION entity and a Paralax entity.
Beyond those mentions, I'm not clear on what that means as far as being "inhabited."
Posted by LardLad on :
Yes, BB, GL: Rebirth essentially placed the blame on the Parallax entity inhabiting Hal, though Hal's emotional turmoil over Coast City was said to have opened the door. I think Set still blames Hal for all the crap Ron Marz had him do. It was never cool to make Hal a despot and a mass murderer, IMO. I normally hate retcons, but Geoff's was as good as any I'd ever seen, and most importantly it righted a terrible wrong that had been done to the character.
Kyle Rayner has his fans. And the good news is that Kyle has been far from swept aside. He still plays a major and active role in GLC and in the GL mythos.
The League was absolutely right to distrust Hal after he came back, but I think after the Sinestro Corps War, he earned back their trust and his place among them. I think enough has been done with the plausible explanation of his past actions and with the heroism he's displayed since then to be worthy to stand among them again.
However, I'm in no hurry to see Barry in the League again, though I'm sure it's inevitable. Barry shouldn't have been brought back. Wally had more than earned the mantle of the Flash. So far I've been extremely disappointed in how that's all been handled. I'm cautiously optimistic about Dick as Batman so far, but I'm right there with Set regarding Wally and Roy.
Posted by Blacula on :
I've never read any Starman, though of course I've heard all the superlative praise it's been given, but are we sure the James Robinson currently at DC is the same one who wrote that book?
Because after one issue of Superman he had me drop that title and after this first issue of Justice League - Whine About Justice I don't think I can go on with this book either. How is this man considered one of the greats?
I like some of the ideas that were presented here - like making a funky, obscurio like Congo Bill a viable, prominent character again (though I hope Robinson wasn't serious about him just being known as "Bill" from now on - what a lame and uninspiring code-name. "Congo Bill" and "Congorilla" are so much snazzier!) - and the art is of course very good, but man, what laughable dialogue and simple story-telling surrounding all that!
Green Arrow to Green Lantern - "No baby. I'm with you. You and me. Old times, new times, all the time." The Atom to Killer Moth - "He's a hero. I'm Ray Palmer. Welcome to pain." Green Lantern - "What about JUSTICE?""I want JUSTICE." The Atom - "I want him to pay. Yeah... JUSTICE!" The narrator - "His words don't have a direct translation on this planet. But their meaning does---- JUSTICE!" Congo Bill - "I WANT JUSTICE!"
That Atom line about "pain" makes me chuckle every time I read it. I had high hopes for this book so I'd hate to give up on it so quickly but with writing like that and a season when there are so many other good comics demanding my money I think I'm going to have to.
I'll check back in on this thread and give it another go if the posters here think it's gotten better though.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I picked up #1 and thought it was pretty good thus far. Its all mainly set-up so we'll see where we go from here.
Batman fan nitpick session Jeepers Robinson, you know as well I do that Killer Moth isn't Killer Moth anymore! If you invented Killer Moth II, you owe it to us to make him awesome considering he was the coolest bat-villain of them all in 1951, which you should know full well given your knowledge of DC history. I demand this be fixed!
Er, excuse me.
Hal's speech was and the subsequent tension at first felt a little first to me but after thinking about it, I can see all the points of view. Hal made a good statement about them all sometimes resting on their laurels since they're in the shadows of Supes, Bats and WW (though I hate the idea of a 'trinity'). I can also see where the opposition may have been coming from, even if it was never stated: the heroes are worried when Hal gets very aggressive like this because they remember Parallax. So to answer CJ's question, thats the only thing I can think of.
I loved Green Arrow's comments and going along with Hal right away. Their friendship in comics is legendary and I feel like at long last we've seen it again in full force.
Congorilla rocks like no one else. But I HATED that Freedom Beast had to die! He's so unique! I demand his immediate resurrection. Its not like you can make a third Freedom Beast (I know, I know, the first was B'wana).
I like both Atoms so I don't mind them both existing.
I'll keep buying and am curious as to where this goes.
Posted by Blacula on :
^^^ I could be wrong about this CK but I believe Killer Moth has stopped being Charaxes (and ugh! what a crap concept that was) and gone back to being plain old Killer Moth again. Which is way cool by me because he's the coolest Bat-villain of 1951, '61, '71, '81, '91 and 2001 in my eyes!
---one quick visit to Wikipedia later---
OK after reading that entry I officially have no idea what's going on with this character anymore. Apparently Charaxes is dead but there are a dozen new Killer Moths running around and none of them were the original anyway?!? I guess I hadn't been following this character as closely as I'd thought.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Jillikers! It sounds too confusing for me to check myself. Needless to say, Killer Moth in his original form is one of the coolest comic book characters of all time and anyone who says differently is a blood enemy of mine I must attack on sight.
He should be restored to his original form, have all those other wannabes horribly executed and then give Dick Grayson a beating.
And in 2011, he'll once again be the coolest villain ever!
Posted by Quislet, Esq. on :
I don't know Cobie. Wouldn't Mr. Freeze and Captain Cold be cooler than any other character?
Posted by doublechinner on :
Don't forget Minister Blizzard!
Posted by Stealth on :
Wein's first installment is out, and it delivered on my modest expectations -- a slight but fun story, kinda like discovering a really good long-lost episode of Super Friends or a tasty new bubblegum flavor, and definitely the kind of story that might have rescued JLA Classified from cancellation.
It's Vixen, "Firestorm" (note quotes), Dr. Light (Kimiyo), Red Tornado, and Plastic Man versus the Royal Flush Gang and Click Here For A SpoilerRoulette. Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I read McDuffie's final issue and just like the one before it, I have to say its ironic that I think his best issues of his entire run were his last. There are probably several reasons for it.
Nonetheless, I liked his usage of Icon & Hardware, and I'm glad its somewhat explained what the Milestone characters are doing in the DCU.
McDuffie was obviously playing with his favorites, but that still at least let us see Zatanna and Dr. Light in action, who are two of my favorites.
Perhaps now, going forward, JLA will actually be as good as it should be after about 34 issues of being mediocre. I hope Dr. Light & Zatanna will stick around.
Posted by Titan Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Stealth: Wein's first installment is out, and it delivered on my modest expectations -- a slight but fun story, kinda like discovering a really good long-lost episode of Super Friends or a tasty new bubblegum flavor, and definitely the kind of story that might have rescued JLA Classified from cancellation.
It's Vixen, "Firestorm" (note quotes), Dr. Light (Kimiyo), Red Tornado, and Plastic Man versus the Royal Flush Gang and Click Here For A SpoilerRoulette.
I would love to read this, but at the same time the roster does nothing for me. I think it's so out there, and I really don't want to have anything to do with it. I love that Vixen, Red Tornado, and Firestorm are appearing but I will always prefer Elongated Man to Plastic Man and Dr. Light is just...blah.
Posted by Stealth on :
And Wein continues to take us on a fun carnival ride. I was never a fan of the Royal Flush Gang, but I like the way he's re-invented them. Meanwhile, Tom Derenick has really improved as an artist -- he used to be awful, but now he's pretty good.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
CRY FOR JUSTICE #3:
The numbers of those crying for justice swell... or get reduced, depending on your point of view. Click Here For A Spoiler Ex-Leaguer Tasmanian Devil, we learn, was killed and is now a rug on Prometheus' floor. By inference, and a panel showing some battle or other, other Global Guardians are also dead.
I'm liking this for the 'minor' characters, as Hal here reads nothing like the Hal of his own title. Ollie seems like he's trying to compensate, so reads correspondingly off, too- but in his case, it sort of makes sense.
Atom, Starman and Congorilla are the characters I want to read more about. Maybe Supergirl, though that cover reminded me unpleasantly of the Superman robot in Crapuation Day.
I at once enjoyed and was mildly repelled by the scene where Congo and Mikaal fought in midair. It was an exciting scene- and told exactly what was intended. But the blood and the spoiler above make me a tad... queasy.
I like the new (I think it's new) origin for a villain I've never cared a tuppence for- makes me want to read about him a bit more. Hate the name for this character, though.
I'm really looking forward to the text piece/back-up featuring Starman next month, or whenever. Loved seeing The Shade and Charity and the other guy from the STARMAN series.
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
Meaningless deaths (or deaths to show how bad ass the stupid villain-of-the-moment is) are the reason I HATE DC right now. Robinson did this in STARMAN for no reason as well.
What's sad and pathetic is that he'll be taking over the main title when I was loving McDuffie's run. We'll be treated to more endless between the panel deaths.
I hope the next writer has Taz show up and rips Prometheus' head off while stating an "impostor" died in his place.
[ September 22, 2009, 09:04 AM: Message edited by: Nightcrawler ]
Posted by Blacula on :
The death of Freedom Beast was one thing... but now I hear he's offed Tasmanian Devil as well!?! And maybe even some more Global Guardians?
There is no forgiving this wanton slaughter of great supporting characters just to add unearned drama to this immensely craptacular tale.
As if The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen movie wasn't proof enough of how low Robinson's writing skills have sunk since the heady days of Starman this dreadful book should be all the evidence anyone needs.
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
DC should shove this series into an Elseworld/other Earth like they did with the GOLDEN AGE.
Posted by MLLASH on :
Is anyone reading the regular series? I just finished 35 & 36... here's what I thought about it.
Blast from the past Len Wein can still write... I actually enjoyed reading the secret origin of the Royal Flush Gang & Amos Fortune. I'm ejoying this oddball incarnation of the team more than any oddball incarnation since the Giffen/DeMatties/Maguire era.
Cry for Justice 3 awaits me...
Posted by High Priestess Viviane on :
I am reading this series...but it's not keeping me hooked, it's about to get scratched off my reserve list.
Posted by Stealth on :
OMG, welcome back, Theresa!
Lash, I'm reading the regular series and I'm enjoying Wein's fill-in arc very much.
I'm reserving judgement on Cry For Justice until it's over.
By then, Robinson will have taken over the regular series, with Mark Bagley on art. Like I said a couple pages ago in this thread, I actually hope Robinson doesn't work out and is replaced by Fabian Nicieza -- then the New Warriors creative team supreme will be reunited.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by Blacula: The death of Freedom Beast was one thing... but now I hear he's offed Tasmanian Devil as well!?! And maybe even some more Global Guardians?
There is no forgiving this wanton slaughter of great supporting characters just to add unearned drama to this immensely craptacular tale.
As if The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen movie wasn't proof enough of how low Robinson's writing skills have sunk since the heady days of Starman this dreadful book should be all the evidence anyone needs.
How about the stupid deaths of Winky, Blinky and Noddy, the Golden Age Flash's sidekicks? Did he really need to do that? They haven't been seen in 50 years! Thus, the only people who even know about them would obviously be the ones who care about them.
Meanwhile, Wein handling the 'Outcast League' team is actually kind of fun.
Posted by Blacula on :
He did indeed CK. That offing was just downright mean. The James Robinson of old is obviously trapped in a dungeon somewhere while this serial killer who's taken his place is using the opportunity to clear house at DC!
(Actually that seem like a good idea for a Grant Morrison-style story - fictional serial-killer escapes into the real world and starts killing people by writing their deaths into the comics. What a freaky good idea! Unless I've already been beaten to it like so many of my other great ideas... sob... Greek Street... sob).
Meanwhile, why am I reading Robinson's trash comic when my favourite villain-team in the DCU is being written in the regular book by the writer of one of my favourite ever eras of this team? Is it really safe to come back to the main title? I've been burned by it in the past.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I'd go for it. It's a solid superhero story full of Wein's classic dynamics between characters and dare I say it...fun! But real fun, not corny fun. It kind of reminds me of some of those classic moments in super-team history between line-ups where there is a momentary magic that just works but you know it will be fleeting (which makes it sweeter).
(One example--a powerless Goliath, Wasp, Hawkeye and guest stars Thor & Iron Man right before the Black Panther.)
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
BTW, picked up Cry for Justice #3 and witnessed the horrific and unnecessary death of Tazmanian Devil. Enough is enough for me. This is ridiculous.
I'll try to pull back my reaction and explain it in a way that doesn't break the guidelines of Legion World: er...must...try...to...contain...self... James Robinson needs a fucking punch to the head! I'm sorry, I better stop talking about this miniseries right now. My apologies Legion World.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
In "Cry For Blood - oops I mean Justice", Who was the Global Guardian chick who got her head cut off? (and I agree about T-Devil)
Posted by Set on :
Man, I have the Superfriends issue that first introduced those characters... Godiva, Tuatara, Tasmanian Devil, etc. Run Tuatara, run! (He was my favorite.)
Gosh. Of all the people to kill off. Who'se next, Zan and Jayna? (Biting my tongue, as I realize they've already gone to work on Wendy and Marvin.)
Edit: A Global Guardian named Gloss died recently, that might be the one you're thinking of. She tapped into the 'dragon lines' (ley lines) and had great strength, immortality and elemental powers (such as to create earthquakes).
Sounds like a pretty neat concept, actually...
Posted by Blacula on :
Gloss started off as a New Guardian by the way. I guess after she'd been around a while she decided to become a Global one instead.
P.S. Set - I hate to tell you this but I think Tuatara actually died years ago in JSA. I believe he (along with my fave Global Guardian Impala) was one of the pictures on the wall of fallen-heroes in Roulette's fight-club thing.
An off-panel, 'no body' death scene like that is easily the shittiest of Geoff Johns' many shitty ways of killing good characters though so I personally take the view that none of the characters shown on that wall did actually die there and that their pictures were just Roulette's way of creating attention for her business. (And indeed a number of other characters who had pictures on that wall have shown up alive since then so...)
Now we just need a good writer (i.e. not James Robinson) to come along and do something with these great characters.
Global Guardians = Blacula's #1 favourite most-underdeveloped DC Comics property.
[ September 23, 2009, 01:12 AM: Message edited by: Blacula ]
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
In my 37-itemized proposal on how I could make DC Comics great again, creating an ongoing Global Guardians comic is one of the items! I agree they have HUGE potential.
Posted by MLLASH on :
Anyone noticed the new house ad for Robinson's JLA?
s p o i l e r . . .
Who's going to be in The Titans now?
Posted by matlock on :
That's a very slapdash, temporary looking lineup. Pass.
Posted by Set on :
Meh. Vixen is the only character in that line up that I care about. (I like Mon-El, but he doesn't really work for me in the League.)
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
The lineup doesn't necessarily thrill me, but I'm intrigued enough to give it a shot. (And Hal's in it, so I'm there regardless) Robinson's been pretty horrible in "Cry for Justice" so that doesn't really give me high hopes. I just have to keep remembering he wrote "Starman" and "The Golden Age"...
Posted by Lard Lad on :
Me, I'm wondering who the hell is gonna populate the Titans book! Isn't this the meat of that book's lineup?!?! Posted by Blacula on :
^^^ I'm not sure who's going to be on the new Titans team but apparently Deathstroke (of all people) is going to be its leader.
Deathstroke = the guy who stuck his sword through the chest of Phantom Lady.
Yes, the Titans franchise does indeed suck that much now.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Yeah, the Titans book itself blows dead whales. I wish it would be cancelled and all memory of it would be wiped away from existence by Zatanna.
Meanwhile, the new JLA line-up looks interesting. I'm not exactly confident Robinson can give us anything good since his Cry for Justice has pretty much exhausted any patience I had for him left over from his older work which I loved. But Bagley is awesome, so that helps.
While I know that ultimately Dick and Donna won't last here, I love the idea of Starfire in the JLA and have always wanted her to become a major DC star.
Posted by Stealth on :
I like this lineup, with its mixture of old warhorses (Hal and Ollie, two of the few non-Legion DC characters who have sentimental value for me, plus Ray), grown-up ex-sidekicks (Donna and Dick), grown-up ex-young-turks (Koriand'r and Victor), wild cards (Mon-El, Guardian, and Congorilla), and Kimiyo, who I'm glad to see get a second shot at the JLA.
What concerns me, other than Robinson's iffy showing on Cry For Justice, is that with such a large cast and the number of guest stars he has planned, he's going to have to be real careful not to let the book lose focus.
I'm sure a lot of people are cringing at the news that Robinson is a fan of Joe Kelly's JLA and JL Elite, but I happen to be a fan of those runs, too, so I find it encouraging.
Posted by Lard Lad on :
What bothers me about what Robinson says is that he seems so intent to tie in with the rest of the DCU that it would seem like more of the McDuffie Syndrome is imminent. Namely, JLA being so tied in to the latest Big Event constantly that we don't really have a title that does its own thing. When Robinson was announced, I was sure this would not be the case given his pedigree. Now...not so sure. Posted by Lard Lad on :
As for the lineup, the best thing about it is that it really doesn't remind me of any other JLA roster of note. That would imply this run is less about nostalgia than almost any on recent record since the JLI era. That's a good start.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I'm not all that excited about this run or the line-up. Why?
Because in addition to Freedom Beast, Tazmanian Devil and a host of other characters in Cry for Justice, Robinson supposedly has now killed off Blue Jay in his first issue of this run. What's going on with Robinson? Did something terrible happen to him in real life? Is that the plot device he knows how to use now? How in the world can I be excited about the JLA if the writer's recent body of work gives me the inclination that he's going to give us a huge steaming pile of shit?
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
PS - no complaints about Bagley, of course, whose art looks as stunning as ever.
Posted by Stealth on :
I hear you, Cobie. I'm still hanging on by a thread, but the Robinson/Bagley JLA is probably going to turn out to be the next Waid/Hitch JLA -- great art at the service of embarassing stories.
Posted by Lardi the Incorruptible on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: I'm not all that excited about this run or the line-up. Why?
Because in addition to Freedom Beast, Tazmanian Devil and a host of other characters in Cry for Justice, Robinson supposedly has now killed off Blue Jay in his first issue of this run.
Apparently, news of Blue Jay's demise has been greatly exaggerated according to Robinson himself via Twitter. (I don't tweet, but it's mentioned in the comments section of an article in Newsarama about the issue at hand.)
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Its funny to me, because I have no real great affection for Blue Jay. He's more of a footnote to me when I try to make a complete list of all JLAers of all eras.
But it seems Robinson, whose work in the 90's was like a beacon of hope, is taking on so many of the horrible qualities that the worst comics of the 90's had to offer. I hope thats not the case, but the evidence is starting to pile up against him.
I hope this is proven wrong, of course. I want the JLA to be good. In fact, I want it to be great, something I feel it hasn't been since in its current relaunch since Meltzer's #1.
Posted by Stealth on :
Did I say Robinson/Bagley would be the new Waid/Hitch?
I was being too kind. Once again, my low expectations were still too high.
JLA # 38 is awful. Awful, awful, awful. Even worse than Cry For Justice, with which it shares the Grade-Z dialogue and the sluggish pace!
One single solitary postive: Bagley's art is almost as good as expected, although his current inker (who I've never heard of) diminishes Bagley somewhat.
Robinson has talked about wanting to improve Kimiyo's standing. So why does she do nothing but hit Despero with a puffball blast when she has power levels that once floored the Anti-Monitor??
Using a "real" Leaguer as a deus ex machina is lazy writing to begin with, but to make it Zatanna adds insult to injury. The only time I've ever liked Zatanna was during that brief time in the 90s when she didn't have that stupid stage magician outfit and didn't use those stupid all-purpose backward spells. And Robinson makes her even more smug and annoying than usual.
And that cheap shot and Young Justice almost makes me want to inflict bodily harm on Robinson and DiDio.
But the worst offense has got to be the last-page cliffhanger.
Click Here For A SpoilerThey're going to face the Black Lantern-ized Arthur Light?? It's been five years now since Identity Crisis, and I think even DiDio would admit -- albeit only if someone put a gun to his head -- that its overall effect on DC Comics, including the almighty $sales$, has been negative in the long run. So why do they keep referencing it?
This is the last straw. I'm finished with the 21st Century DC Universe. Next time I go to the store, I'm crossing JLA and Cry For Justice and Power Girl off my pull list, adding Adventure Comics, and I'll spend the next few months hoping upon hope that Levitz doesn't screw up his return to the Legion.
Posted by Reboot on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: I'm not all that excited about this run or the line-up. Why?
Because in addition to Freedom Beast, Tazmanian Devil and a host of other characters in Cry for Justice, Robinson supposedly has now killed off Blue Jay in his first issue of this run. What's going on with Robinson? Did something terrible happen to him in real life? Is that the plot device he knows how to use now? How in the world can I be excited about the JLA if the writer's recent body of work gives me the inclination that he's going to give us a huge steaming pile of shit?
Did you forget the JLE fiasco in Starman?
Posted by Blacula on :
quote:Originally posted by Stealth: This is the last straw. I'm finished with the 21st Century DC Universe. Next time I go to the store, I'm crossing JLA and Cry For Justice and Power Girl off my pull list, adding Adventure Comics, and I'll spend the next few months hoping upon hope that Levitz doesn't screw up his return to the Legion.
Though I haven't read his first issue of JLA proper yet, I am in complete agreement with you on the quality of Robinson's recent DCU out-put Stealth. The man needs an intervention or something to find out what's happened to his writing.
My dis-satisfaction with him (and what's going on in some other DCU titles - like all those crappy R.E.B.E.L.S. developments) has brought me close to quitting the DCU a couple of times too. But then I remember how good some of the other books out there are and I hold on.
I'm not surprised you weren't able to do the same though because, no offense, but you've obviously just been buying the crappy titles. ;-) Cry For Justice and Power Girl? Those are two of the worst-reviewed books in all of comics!
Instead of going cold-turkey on all of the modern day DCU why don't you shift your attention to some of its better books, like -
Brave & Bold (absolutely wonderful character pieces since JMS took over) Green Lantern and Green Lantern Corps (the best this almost always good franchise has ever, ever been) Detective Comics (great new character and art to die for) Superman: Secret Origin (Geoff Johns and Gary Frank proving why they're as regarded as they are and a Legion appearance too) The Great Ten (going out on a limb with this one since it hasn't started yet but these seem like fresh and exciting new characters to me and from the preview, McDaniel's art looks better than it ever has before)
Hope that helps. DCU Counsellor Blacula Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by Reboot:
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: I'm not all that excited about this run or the line-up. Why?
Because in addition to Freedom Beast, Tazmanian Devil and a host of other characters in Cry for Justice, Robinson supposedly has now killed off Blue Jay in his first issue of this run. What's going on with Robinson? Did something terrible happen to him in real life? Is that the plot device he knows how to use now? How in the world can I be excited about the JLA if the writer's recent body of work gives me the inclination that he's going to give us a huge steaming pile of shit?
Did you forget the JLE fiasco in Starman?
Don't even get me started
Little known recent crime against the DCU by Robinson Agent Liberty, a character Dan Jurgens spent a considerable amount of time creating and developing during his time on the Superman titles and then JLA, killed off in a casual manner to further the initial storyline of Robinson's current Superman plot. He basically stood around for three issues and then had his brain heat-visioned out. Now, Robinson introduces a female Agent Liberty--who has yet to even speak, she just stands there in the background. Yup. Have DC Comics really gotten this bad? For the most part, yes.
(PS - Blacula is right about Brave & Bold, I highly recommnend it!)
Posted by Stealth on :
I know you mean well, Blacula, but I just cannot continue to support the DCU when it's lost its way so badly. The last time I really and truly enjoyed something from DC was The Sinestro Corps War more than two years ago, and even then it was the exception, not the rule. The only way I can do my part so that DiDio finally gets thrown out on his ass is to buy nothing from the DCU (which means I've had a change of heart about Adventure Comics and decided to Byrne-steal Levitz's Legion until DiDio's gone.) At least I can continue to buy Vertigo books with a clear conscience, since that's Karen Berger's turf.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: Little known recent crime against the DCU by Robinson Agent Liberty, a character Dan Jurgens spent a considerable amount of time creating and developing during his time on the Superman titles and then JLA, killed off in a casual manner to further the initial storyline of Robinson's current Superman plot.
Jurgens should get to take Jack Knight for an issue or two of "Booster Gold" and beat the crap out of him or kill his son or give him herpes or something. For someone who's *SO* protective of his character, Robinson has shown little respect to other people's creations.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by Stealth: I know you mean well, Blacula, but I just cannot continue to support the DCU when it's lost its way so badly. The last time I really and truly enjoyed something from DC was The Sinestro Corps War more than two years ago, and even then it was the exception, not the rule. The only way I can do my part so that DiDio finally gets thrown out on his ass is to buy nothing from the DCU (which means I've had a change of heart about Adventure Comics and decided to Byrne-steal Levitz's Legion until DiDio's gone.) At least I can continue to buy Vertigo books with a clear conscience, since that's Karen Berger's turf.
I've now reached the point where I actively want Didio fired.
I've never wanted people fired before ever in my life. That ranks Didio up there with Ken Lewis and George W Bush for me.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
In other news, the 80-page annual that just came out was actually pretty fun! A stand-alone issue that isn't the most Earth-shattering thing ever, it has a plethora of heroes teaming up in the old Garnder Fox way throughout time with some cool scenes. I'm glad I gave it a shot given my current distaste for the JLA at DC these days.
IIRC, the team-ups were: GL (Hal) & Red Arrow with Cinnamen; GL (John) & Vixen with Shining Knight; Black Canary and Zatanna with Crimson Avenger; Green Arrow and Firestorm with the Bride of Frankenstein; Steel & Wonder Woman with Black Pirate; and Superman & Dr. Light with a new character. It worked so well, it reminds me that any JLA line-up could be great if the stories are great.
Posted by Stealth on :
I thought the 80-page special was just okay. It was too much of a re-hash of Len Wein & Dick Dillin's Seven Soldiers of Victory/JLA/JSA arc from the early 1970s. Still, compared to the monthly book...
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Yeah, probably the positive reaction to it was grounded in the horribly negative reactin I've felt for all things JLA (other than Wein's brief story). I thought it was a pretty solid, entertaining read and a good mix of characters.
Posted by Stealth on :
My favorite segment by far was the John Stewart/Vixen one set in Medieval England.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Me too! Vixen totally rocked here.
I also liked the Crimson Avenger / Black Canary / Zatanna sequence, and for some reason the Wonder Woman / Steel / Black Pirate sequence. Those were cool, though the fact that they were relatively quick was good too (whereas, I could have read another 20 pages of the Vixen / John / Shining Knight sequence).
The only one that left me 'meh' was the Hal / Roy sequence. The Cinnamen / Roy kiss was pretty cringe-worthy.
Posted by Blacula on :
^^^ I really wanted to get that issue but it was going for more than $10 at my shop here in Australia! That is crossing a line for me. Posted by Lardi on :
Y'know, I read Robinson & Bagley's debut issue a few days ago, and I didn't think it was bad at all. It wasn't perfect, but you can see how he's planting a seed for a storyline that is apparently going to become bigger and bigger in the DCU after Blackest Night from hints in interviews I've read. No, that doesn't automatically mean it's going to be good in and of itself, but it DOES show there's a PLAN, which is something JLA's been lacking for a long time almost ever since Morrison left. That means the stories here have the potential to matter like they haven't, again, since the Morrison years. I, for one, am all FOR that!
The story basically addresses this with the characters themselves wondering if the JLA matters any more, much as the fan has been for a while. That's a meta-textual element that is a cue for the reader that the problem is recognized and is being worked on. Plus, the heavy-handed dialogue that's marred Cry for Justice is much-improved here. (I cringe with how the terms "villain" and "justice!" are being bandied about there.)
So there's hope, and I'm gonna give this team a fair shake to make a little magic happen. And if Robinson's smart, he'll work Mera into the lineup we've already been spoiled as a late addition, hot on the heels of her star-making turn in BN!
(Plus, Robinson's been quoted as saying Blue Jay ain't dead!)
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
I enjoyed the JLA Blackest Night tie-in. I liked seeing a particular segment of League history overtly featured (note: I typed 'a' not 'this'). I'd like to see more of this, not just related to the oft-discounted Detroit era.
I liked the Zatanna/Zatarra scenes. They were a surprise, as I hadn't read any spoiler or solicit about his appearance.
I like how the more recent BN issues (at least the tie-ins) have featured several pages of opening narration as the deceased's memory is downloaded into the black rings. I connect much more strongly to these moments than all the leering, decayed zombie thingies with Nekron's personality and hard-to-decipher costume choices that get the covers and, apparently, delight the fans. If I'd known that *all* the zombies spoke with one voice, I wouldn't have been as entertained by the initial appearance of the Dibney's in BN #1.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
I have to admit to not being to thrilled with the new JLA under Robinson and Bagley so far. Robinson is dragging out the make-do league even longer than anyone wanted, and Bagley's art...needed a cleaner inker. The faces are still a touch to cartoony for my tastes.
But, I'm loving Z and Vixen so far.
Plas I can completely do without.
Reddy...this version isn't doing much for me.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I finally got around to reading the second part of the BN tie-in since my enthusiasm for it was so low after part one. I think the second part was a big improvement over the first but the issues still weren't anything that great. I can't really recommend anyone buy them in good conscience.
On the one hand, there were some really great Vixen and Gypsy scenes with the undead Vibe and Steel, and those really worked for me. Both Vixen and Gypsy had some great sequences were they used their powers and intelligence.
On the other hand, the Dr. Light vs. Dr. Light stuff was yet another lame attempt to incorporate Dr. Light into the DCU mega-events because as a rapist he's so terrifying. And like most others, it was pretty boring and ineffective. I really like the heroic Dr. Light but I can't really say I enjoyed the sequence (not because of any potential rape sequences, since he was a corpse, but because Dr. Light the villain just plain sucks these days). I do like the mention of her children though and hope Robinson keeps some degree of focus on them in her future stories since its a little mentioned fact in her appearances.
The prior issue's Zatarra / Zatanna stuff IMO was played out and has already been done to death in the past. I feel like I've read that sequence before with her in like three places.
All around, I thought this tie-in wasn't terrible but mediocre at best. Still, a step up for Robinson so far from his other JLA stories.
Posted by Lardi on :
Just read JLA 40 (referenced in Cobie's above post) and was underwhelmed. Really, it seemed BLs Vibe and Steel were mostly just really annoying. Yeah, both Gypsy and Vixen do have issues and those do go all the way back to their beginnings--but it seemed the BLs were really more about pissing off and demeaning them more than anything. Playing off their guilt over what happened to their teammates would've seemed more natural.Vibe's speech patterns were just annoying (though unfortunately accurate).
And then, there's rapist Doctor Light. *groan* Did Robinson really have to play that up so much? It's really just sickening, and I really regret that my son got ahold of that and read it before I did. He's really gotten in to Blackest Night and reads all the tie-ins I buy. Hopefully, he had no clue what that dialogue was all about.
I hope next issue starts to show the potential of what Robinson's planning, or I won't be buying this much longer. There's apparently a master plan here. We need to be shown something when the new lineup debuts next month--really fast!
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
Gotta say, I've followed every incarnation of the league since the satelite era in the mid 70's. After the last three or four years, I'm having a lot more fun collecting issues from before I ever started reading. Just got the one where the original Nekron showed up and fought the league. Wonder Woman returned, only to "die" as the cover said with Hawkman holding a "dead" diana.
Couple of weeks ago, I got the issue where an alien race kidnaps superman to save them from Despero, and convinces superman that some actors they are using is the justice league. This was back when supergirl wore hotpants and was...well...hot.
Posted by Owl Lad on :
So, Donna's gone and rounded up her ole Titans gang to form the new JLA. There were so many things I could comment on this issue, but all that stays with me is the image of Donna's boobs practically busting out of her costume! (bad pun intended)
I don't understand Diana's need to push Donna into the league when she herself is staying out of it.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
I can understand Diana thinking that it'd be good for Donna at this time in her life and deciding to step back so that Donna get out from her shadow. I know it mainly fits in line with the advancement of the "mini-Trinity" (with Dick and Mon) more than anything else though.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Robinson at last begins assembling the team that will make up his League and its an improvement over the last few issues. But really, it still isn't up to snuff.
Of course, whether its unfair or not, I can't get the awful Cry for Justice series out of my head, which still hasn't ended (and the spoilers on how it ends make it look like it'll be even worse than we imagined). Robinson has to actually be better than everyone else to make up for that; so far he hasn't even been "good".
Posted by Disaster Boy on :
so....who's gonna be in the titans?
personally i always liked the idea of the titans graduating and taking over, maybe one at a time like roy, is more realistic, but i wouldn't think it wouldn't happen for a while...or in soem drastic incident where all the originals were outta commission (rather than just not feeling like it)
(why dont they just change the title of jla to titans!!)
what is the problem with supes, batman, wonder etc....being the justice league?
i mean wolverine is in like 6 or 7 books in the marvel u.
and btw i've always thought kimiyo could hand dr.light his butt. without the whole i love my children bit.
i just hope we dont get many more book full of characters whining that they dont want to be in the league.
Posted by Raging Bull on :
Is the JLA still crying for justice?
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
No actually, they've started crying "LEAGUE!!" instead. (I think in the third part of Robinson's trilogy, they'll be crying for america...)
Posted by Chemical King on :
League together, that would be... more fitting... all those Titans in the JLA - kind of logical step, if the old heroes would have gone away... but they haven't...
Anyway Starfire won't stay for long, cause she has already Click Here For A Spoilerbeen announced as the next REBELS addition... probably to boost sales there.
But as long as all those Titans are running around in JLA I will give this book a chance (already quit it twice since #1... third time a charm...)
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
About CRY FOR JUSTICE-- I can understand folks' problems with the story, but I haven't seen much mention of the text pages at each issue's end. I've quite enjoyed them, in fact, they've elevated my enjoyment of the book much more than the story itself would've warranted.
I like the characters assembled here, I like the art when it's not being so over-the-top gory, don't care tuppence about Prometheus (what an insult to the Titan who first bore that name, mythological firebringer to man, legendary sufferer). Sad about Roy, don't recognize Donna, glad to see Mikaal (and Shade) back in a book, curious about Congorilla...
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
OK- I really liked #42. I loved the way it encompassed the DCU's breadth, even into its past. Challengers of the Unknown, Metal Men, Josiah Power, Uncle Sam and a couple of Freedom Fighters, Blackhawk... cameos that were as fun as they were unexpected.
I even liked the new group of New God knockoffs, for what they were. If the real thing are off-limits for awhile, why not some 'evil' copies? Don't know if I want to see them persist as is, but as entry level villains? I'm somewhat intrigued, at least.
The Shade! Still a great character to read... I don't know what to make of the Green Arrow/Shade subplot. I'm certainly curious about it.
Now for the line-up... I like each of these characters... I even like them together. But are the Justice League? Not yet- but they could read that way, I suppose.
Surprisingly, the character that I currently would want to stick around whenever Kal-el, Diana and Bruce return (and we all know they will) is Cyborg. I liked his scene with Red Tornado and think they'd make a pretty nifty sub-team within the League.
Posted by lil'rhino on :
I liked #42 as well. Great to see Josiah Power & all the other cameos.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
Considering Robinson's track record with "Cry For Justice" it's a minor miracle Power Company didn't end up in body bags, dismembered, turned into mulch or furniture or something equally horrific.
Posted by Blacula on :
Whine For Justice finally finishes and with it so does the life of one of DC's best supporting characters.
I have no words for how much I want James Robinson and Dan Didio gone from DC Comics. They are everything that's wrong with the company today.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I just went and read the spoilers because of Blacula's post. What I read is actually sickening:
Click Here For A SpoilerLian Harper is killed; Green Arrow murders Prometheus, other awful things happen.
Wow, just awful. This will go down as one of the worst mini-series of all time. This is as bad as anything DC, Marvel or Image has ever done before in the history of all of those companies.
How can I expect to give Robinson a chance after this?
Posted by Dev Em on :
I'm hoping beyond hope that it was Danny D. that mandated this thing and not Robinson that came up with it.
Posted by KryptonKid on :
I am not enjoying JLA, JSA, or All-Stars right now. I am proceeding with the JLA under the assumption that the current line-up is just a place-holder until the Big Three are available again.
Posted by Disaster Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: I just went and read the spoilers because of Blacula's post. What I read is actually sickening:
Click Here For A SpoilerLian Harper is killed; Green Arrow murders Prometheus, other awful things happen.
W?
yeah!!! not even in the story and then pow!
my reaction was "really? really? was that necessary? dumb nasses."
ruined cry for justice which i was into int he beginning, i think its dumped me from jla too. its just gross
Posted by Reboot on :
My cbs had sold out, so I didn't pick this up. The bare bones of the spoiler are certainly horrible and nothing I particularly want to read. It does explain Donna in Justice League quite a bit, though that's small compensation.
I guess I can see plot driving from this that might make a few good stories, but ultimately, they won't prove worth what was lost.
Posted by Disaster Boy on :
BEST COMIC REVIEW EVER. (and i hate all caps. but YES i used them) CAN I ADD EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!!!!!!
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Great review linked to by Reboot. Honestly this is so atrocious that I honestly wish everyone associated with it never gets a paying job in comic books again.
Anyone who defends Didio after this is akin to defending Dahmer. (I went there )
Posted by Disaster Boy on :
yes, now i am 'crying for justice'.
hmmm too bad i can't unbuy comics ..... and what's with the latest Blackest night? Re: Oan organs all over the place. I don't need to see smurf hearts.
Posted by Dev Em on :
I have yet to see a positive review to this comic.Even if they try to point out something positive that might come from the story, it always ends with a negative review because of the things that were done to characters that should have been left alone.
Posted by Disaster Boy on :
rise of arsenal, fall of green arrow .....
woooooop de dooooooooooo!! is there an emoticon for my finger twirling around in the air!?!
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
I liked the Atom's interrogation tactics. It showed his state of mind. With his role in BN, he's losing that edge and mellowing out.
Hal's initial reaction, and Ollie's backing him up, were both solid considering what the two have been through.
The Congo Bill/Mikaal team up was interesting, I liked their banter. It reminded me of Mikaal's time in Robinson's Starman.
The destruction of Star City and the death involved is truly upsetting. It's suppose to be tho'. (There was a similar heinous crime in a DC comic not too many years ago that had folks up in arms. There's a reason it's a crime, and these are criminals, and we aren't meant to like them.) I like Roy, and there's no one on this board that's a bigger GA fan. But I'm interested in seeing how both Green and Red Arrow handle this.
The removal of Batwoman, the multitude of artists, Promethues' Rube Goldberg bombing, all were poorly executed and scream of editorial fiat. That's where this book faltered and that will taint the oh so few bright spots.
Posted by Dev Em on :
I am not necessarily opposed to having characters of that type killed in comics. The Walking Dead, Flash, and even Aquaman have done so with characters and made it work. I just think that the character involved made those closest to her more interesting.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
One of the worst things about this is that if you're a fan of Roy's, some extremely important things have happened to him in a miniseries that isn't about him at all - he's just there to be cannon fodder in someone else's story. Granted, this leads to an Arsenal-centric story, but it always sucks when a character you're invested in gets abused simply for effect.
Posted by Fanfic Lass on :
Although I refuse to buy JLA, I'm still Byrne-stealing it because of Bagley's art.
In the post-Blackest Night/post-Cry For Decent Writing DCU, the JLA book has gone from horrendous to merely mediocre. I wasn't far off the mark when I predicted it would recall the Waid/Hitch era.
But, dammit, I still believe that the Donna Troy-led lineup had potential! And so I'm putting my money where my mouth is, and attempting a JLA fanfic that is the kind of story I imagined Robinson would write, as opposed to the crap he actually has written.
I take full responsibility for any continuity flaws. Continuity is overrated, especially in the DCU.
I took the liberty of dropping Starfire, Atom, and Guardian from the lineup as I felt that Kimiyo, Victor, and Ollie can all bring the same things to the table that they had to offer.
quote:Originally posted by Disaster Boy: rise of arsenal, fall of green arrow .....
woooooop de dooooooooooo!! is there an emoticon for my finger twirling around in the air!?!
I wish there was.
Posted by Fanfic Lass on :
Just making sure that nobody misses this:
quote:Originally posted by Fanfic Lass: Although I refuse to buy JLA, I'm still Byrne-stealing it because of Bagley's art.
In the post-Blackest Night/post-Cry For Decent Writing DCU, the JLA book has gone from horrendous to merely mediocre. I wasn't far off the mark when I predicted it would recall the Waid/Hitch era.
But, dammit, I still believe that the Donna Troy-led lineup had potential! And so I'm putting my money where my mouth is, and attempting a JLA fanfic that is the kind of story I imagined Robinson would write, as opposed to the crap he actually has written.
I take full responsibility for any continuity flaws. Continuity is overrated, especially in the DCU.
I took the liberty of dropping Starfire, Atom, and Guardian from the lineup as I felt that Kimiyo, Victor, and Ollie can all bring the same things to the table that they had to offer.
There are flashes of good stuff happening in JLA...tantalizing flashes. But not enough to keep me buying. It's not been on my pull list, but I'd been buying off the shelves since Robinson and Bagley came on. I think what tipped me over toward cessation was the solicits which make it clear I've got to buy 2 or 3 issues of a comic I'm not getting at all anymore (JSA) to get a complete story. I figured I'd start saving my $3.99 now when the title was already on the bubble for me.
Another concern is that Robinson is already experiencing heavy editorial interference just like McDuffie did. Already the lineup he was advertized to have before his run began has been scrambled before the heroes involved ever really got to do anything. The flashes of quality and interest I've had are compromised by this. Even though I like everyone in the new lineup, I'm hesitant because basically he's had to resort to a League of second-stringers to have a snowball's chance in Hell of persevering. Who knows if even that tack will be turned on him, especially with Dick and Kara involved?
Bagley has been a real bright spot. He started kinda rough, but his art is looking better every issue. He's really growing into it despite the fact that he usually has three different inkers every damn issue! Surely, there's someone out there who can keep up with Bags' output?!?!
Like I said, it was the upcoming JSA crossover that put me over the top in my decision. If the new lineup sticks and the reviews reflect an improvement in storytelling as a result, I'll definitely look at trades down the road.
Posted by Fanfic Lass on :
I still think they should fire Robinson and replace him with Fabian Nicieza, who knows more than a little something about working on team books and about squeezing out good stories despite nonstop editorial obstacles. Plus, the New Warriors/Thunderbolts Team Supreme would be reunited!
Posted by Officer Taylor on :
Nah, give it to Len Wein, BAY-bee! The Seven Soldiers of Victory story was one of the best JLA stories EVER! I'm not sure what other tales he was responsible for, but that's a good enough one on his resume to get my vote! Plus, you guys say his other recent arc was The Sh!t, so it sounds like he still has the chops for JLA!
(Care to list what some of his other JLA tales were about, so I can figure out if I've read 'em or not?)
Posted by Fanfic Lass on :
Wein also wrote:
- The original Libra story
- The JLA/JSA/Freedom Fighters team-up
- Some nice ones involving Red Tornado
- The return of the character who eventually became Sand from JSA
Posted by Officer Taylor on :
I think I probably read some of those in some of those great reprint digests DC used to publish! Buying those digests alongside current titles being published at the time really helped turn me into the DC fan I am today--especially reading digests of classic Adventure-era LSH alongside some righteous Levitz/Giffen modern classics!
The Big Two are really missing the boat, IMO, not doing that anymore. I mean, Archie digests STILL sell extremely well, dude!
Posted by Fanfic Lass on :
Agreed.
When I got into superheroes in the early 90s, I was all about the cheap back issues of reprints of classics from before my time.
Posted by MLLASH on :
^ So Len was the writer on those JLA 100-Page Spectaculars then. The issues that hooked me on both the JLA and JSA.
Glad I bought LEGACIES. I'm going to read my comics this evening.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Robinson losing his entire line-up almost because of editorial crap before he even got started was a bad omen. That was one thing that was completely not his fault but talk about totally rendering his first year on the title impotent.
Most of them never even got a solid sequence as a JLAer.
Posted by Set on :
When one plans out a story for a character that isn't going to come to fruition in six months, only to discover four months in that the character is being taken away, it can suck, but, *this isn't exactly new.*
The problem is perhaps 75% editorial snatching away of characters before they get used, but also 25% the author taking too damn long to use the character / tell the story.
Decompression is part of the problem, IMO.
If, after six issues, the character was snatched away from you, you still had 150% of the time necessary to have told 'The Eyes of Tara Markov,' and *six times* the amount of time it would take to focus on the character in a 'Who Is Donna Troy?' character development piece.
Instead, the character was shown standing around, or leaping into some fight scenes, because you were 'building up to it.'
Build faster! Ludicrous speed, now!
[I know, I'm being terribly unfair. The Eyes of Tara Markov and Who Is Donna Troy? weren't created in a vacuum and themselves had plenty of set up, but the glacial pace of todays storytelling, and then the creators excuses for why they never came out as good as the creators claim they would have been if not for circumstances beyond their control get a bit old after awhile...]
Posted by Fanfic Lass on :
As ever, when Set and I agree, we agree 100%.
The question still remaining is, even if Robinson had been able to keep his lineup, would he have actually given us decent stories? Given Justice League: Cry For Decent Writing as Exhibit A, I tend to doubt it.
And the other question is, would he have written those characters as well as I am writing them in my current fanfic?
I am SUCH a shameless self-promoter. Comes with growing up an only child, I guess. Posted by MLLASH on :
quote:Originally posted by Fanfic Lass:
I am SUCH a shameless self-promoter. Comes with growing up an only child, I guess.
I'm in the only child boat too. We get a pass on stuff like this!
Read STARSEARCHERS!!! Posted by Fanfic Lass on :
Lash,
I will go read Starsearchers now. I've been putting it off way too long.
Posted by Dev Em on :
quote:Originally posted by MLLASH:
quote:Originally posted by Fanfic Lass:
I am SUCH a shameless self-promoter. Comes with growing up an only child, I guess.
I'm in the only child boat too. We get a pass on stuff like this!
Read STARSEARCHERS!!!
Ah, two other only children. We should become siblings. and I hope to get another LSH-10 yearas later story up later today. Posted by MLLASH on :
quote:Originally posted by Dev Em:
quote:Originally posted by MLLASH:
quote:Originally posted by Fanfic Lass:
I am SUCH a shameless self-promoter. Comes with growing up an only child, I guess.
I'm in the only child boat too. We get a pass on stuff like this!
Read STARSEARCHERS!!!
Ah, two other only children. We should become siblings. and I hope to get another LSH-10 yearas later story up later today.
I love us!
Posted by Fanfic Lass on :
quote:Originally posted by Dev Em:
quote:Originally posted by MLLASH:
quote:Originally posted by Fanfic Lass:
I am SUCH a shameless self-promoter. Comes with growing up an only child, I guess.
I'm in the only child boat too. We get a pass on stuff like this!
Read STARSEARCHERS!!!
Ah, two other only children. We should become siblings. and I hope to get another LSH-10 yearas later story up later today.
Dev,
Another chapter of 10YL. Squee! Posted by Fanfic Lass on :
OK so I read JLoA 45. It's the prologue to a JLA/JSA crossover. In the summer. I'm there.
Now comes the bitching:
5 SPLASH PAGES and 1 2-PAGE SPREAD. THAT'S **7** PAGES OF THIS COMIC THAT EQUALS 7 STORY-PANELS.
I'm sorry but as much as I enjoy Bagley's art, this is RIDONKULOUS.
JLA is cut as of # 50. And so is any other book that overuses splash pages. They've tested me. I've failed.
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
Guys, I’m trying to type together this thing to express how I feel about DC’s current state properly. This isn’t meant to be a venting thread or a rant, but to express my opinion. This is about how I currently feel about the Justice League. It’s about my thoughts on the original line-up, how I first learned about the League, and my favorite and least favorite members.
This is not an “old versus new” thing. This isn’t about my generation against your generation. I don’t care about “my” generation. I consider myself more a child of the 1990s then I ever have considered myself a child of the 2000s, even if I was a child from 1990-2000. It doesn’t make a difference with me because all generations are the same to me.
What comic book characters do I like? Let me list the line-up of the original Justice League and I’ll tell you my thoughts on them:
*Batman: One of my favorite superheroes. No, I’m not going to clarify if I mean Bruce Wayne OR Dick Grayson. Batman. *Superman: His major storylines tend to end with things going back to normal. *Wonder Woman: Don’t read enough of her. I should. The most I have read is of her 1960s Mod adventures and a couple of Elseworlds. *Flash: Barry Allen? The first story I read about him was Crisis on Infinite Earths. I’ll pass. *Green Lantern: Hal Jordan? I’ll pass. *Martian Manhunter: Another of my favorites, yet I lack enough stories solely about him and not the League. *Aquaman: Arthur Curry. He came back from the dead. Am I interested in him? No. Despite the fact that his JLU counterpart was based on his less-liked 90s persona, and his Brave & The Bold counterpart scares me a bit, I honestly prefer THEM to HIM.
And the later additions of the 1960s, based on Wikipedia’s chronology of the roster.
*Green Arrow: Oliver Queen? The only stuff about Robin Hood I know is the Disney movie and that Young Robin Hood cartoon. Even with Neal Adams and Dennis O’Neill’s book, he’s still boring. Pass. *Atom: Ray Palmer? I feel sorry for him and all the crap he’s gone through. I can respect him being a compassionate superhero, but in all honesty my opinion would be better if they hadn’t killed Ryan Choi. Pass. *Hawkman: Anger issues. Pass. *Black Canary: Fishnets and sonic shrieks. Boring. Pass.
My thoughts on the current team-up:
*Batman: Already stated my opinion. *Congorilla: Have the Vertigo miniseries on my shopping list. I’ll give my opinion after I read it. *Cyborg: Condescending and boring. *Donna Troy: I like her, I honestly do. I just feel bad that she’s now on this team as another example of “growing up”. Why does everyone assume that when a person grows up they have to give up ALL the things from their childhood? *Jade: I used to like her, but that was before they kept her dead for four years, we mourned and moved on, and they brought her back. And I’m still waiting to hear what happened to Nicki Jones from 52. *Jesse Quick: Why did they spend four years building her up as Liberty Belle to put her back as Jessie Quick? And that outfit! *Red Tornado: If it’s not Ma Hunkel I’m not interested. *Starman: The only Starman I’ve ever truly cared about was the second Starman, in the red and yellow costume. *Supergirl: Pass. My favorite’s Matrix.
I could make a whole rant and list of the ones I find boring, so I’ll just say the ones I do like: Batman, Martian Manhunter, Elongated Man, Zatanna, Animal Man, Ice, Power Girl (NOT in the JLA), Wally West, Kyle Rayner, Tomorrow Woman, Oracle, Hourman, Moon Maiden, Bulleteer, Roy Harper (NOT in the JLA), Donna Troy (NOT in the JLA). By saying “NOT in the JLA” I am saying I honestly prefer the portrayal of those characters when they’re not, or were not, in the JLA. The sad thing is I haven’t really read about some of these characters.
My first thoughts on the JLA came from looking at a couple of issues of Grant Morrison’s run, and the Justice League cartoon. Oh, and some old issues of the Detroit League and Justice League Europe, and the JLAntarctica annual. I started collecting the new Justice League of America at 0, dropped it around the 20s, and then started buying again when they were going to reintroduce the Milestone characters. I dropped this book for good after #43. The JLA books I do have are…
Act of God, Created Equal, JLA/Witchblade, JLA Vol.1-2, Primeval, Secret Society of Super-Heroes, Shogun of Steel, One Million, Age of Wonder, Justice Riders, Destiny, Island of Dr. Moreau, and JLA/Titans, JLI Vol.1, and JLA Secret Files #2.
Destiny and Secret Society are two of my favorites, especially with the use of old Quality Comics characters in Destiny. The Witchblade crossover is one of the oldest books I have, I got it when I was in fifth grade. I think.
I bought JLA Secret Files #2 years ago, and I’ll always cherish the one I have, even if the back and cover fell off, but I bought a new copy. But I’m not getting rid of my old one.
I’ve seen the pilot movie that they created years ago for the JLA, the one with Fire and Ice, but my memories are a bit vague. I have an old issue of Wizard magazine, very old, it’s got tape on it, which was about near the start or midway point of Morrison’s run. Prometheus was in it. And I recall playing that Task Force video game on my Sega Genesis.
I feel ashamed of myself, though, thinking of the money I continued to spend on Justice League: Cry for Justice. Knowing how bad it was and continuing to buy it was pretty much my way of saying I was okay with it. The dialogue, the artwork, Prometheus… blech. I know this is going to sound mean, but I don’t think I can buy anything new written by James Robinson ever again. Golden Age is one of my all-time favorites, and I’m thankful to him for bringing back Matter-Eater Lad, but this book was just so awful and stands for everything that’s wrong with comics today. That and the fact that the last two years of New Krypton books led to nothing doesn’t help my opinion.
They replaced Kyle Rayner with Hal Jordan in the Green Lantern spotlight. It’s somewhat understandable considering how atrocious they dealt with Hal in the 90s. They replaced Barry Allen with Wally West. In all honesty if Barry Allen were still in the ground I wouldn’t mind. They replaced Kendra Sunders with Shiera Hall in Hawkgirl. I’m not a big Hawkman or Hawkgirl fan so I don’t know, but it feels like a waste on Kendra‘s part. They brought back Ronnie Raymond and made him the dominate aspect of Firestorm while Jason Rusch takes a backseat. I may not be a Firestorm fan, but from what I’ve read Raymond’s an idiot. They killed Ryan Choi and are planning to spotlight Ray Palmer. Another waste. Ryan had so much potential only to be killed by the Losers for Hire. Linda Danvers left and was replaced by Kara Zor-El. The original Supergirl’s sacrifice is somewhat tarnished by this new Kara and her personality.
It's going to take a lot to get me back into a Justice League book. VERY much. But I'm willing to wait. I feel as if supporting these books would do more damage than dropping them. Still, I need to keep up with what's going on in these books.
Posted by Pov on :
quote:Originally posted by Sarcasm Kid: I feel as if supporting these books would do more damage than dropping them. Still, I need to keep up with what's going on in these books.
No, no you DON'T actually. There's enough places online to "keep up" with old favorites. As long as you spend money on stuff you honestly can't stand, you're a part of the problem; DC only sees your money and sees it as a tacit acceptance of what they're doing. My two cents. Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
Oh no! I should've mentioned I stopped buying Justice League, but I've still been reading them to keep up.
I work in a comic shop on Wednesdays when the new stuff comes out. I can read the books I dropped on breaks.
Posted by Pov on :
OH, allll right. Cool!
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
I'm gonna be typing a thing to explain how I feel about Titans in a bit.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by MLLASH: OK so I read JLoA 45. It's the prologue to a JLA/JSA crossover. In the summer. I'm there.
Now comes the bitching:
5 SPLASH PAGES and 1 2-PAGE SPREAD. THAT'S **7** PAGES OF THIS COMIC THAT EQUALS 7 STORY-PANELS.
I'm sorry but as much as I enjoy Bagley's art, this is RIDONKULOUS.
JLA is cut as of # 50. And so is any other book that overuses splash pages. They've tested me. I've failed.
To echo Lash, I thought the prelude to the JLA/JSA crossover was a step in the right direction with great interaction between various heroes and beautiful Bagley artwork, but it really suffered from too many splash pages and the feeling like nothing of any note was happening throughout the issue.
The JLA has always had a larger than average portion of 'talking heads' scenarios but I feel like Bagley is not putting his skills to good use here in showing more than just talking heroes. That is utterly boring to me.
Robinson's script feels more light-hearted here and that's a good thing. Maybe the memories of his favorite JLA/JSA stories are bringing out the inner kid in him again. But one thing I don't like him doing is having the heroes talk about 'we're coming together' and instead just get to it already.
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
I don't understand why people are praising Mark Bagley. I have to say I've seen his artwork and I don't care for it at all.
Posted by Fanfic Lass on :
Bagley's an acquired taste. I, personally, love his art, but I can see where other people might not care for it.
It doesn't help that his first major project for DC was Trinity, where he had to churn out something like 48 pages a month for a whole year. There were glimpses of how good I think he can be, especially in the early issues, but it's not his best work. As for his JLA, I think it's suffered from bad inking.
When he was at Marvel, he turned out plenty of what I thought was good work on New Warriors, Amazing Spider-Man, Thunderbolts, and Ultimate Spider-Man.
Posted by Chief Taylor on :
As Bags has done more and more on JLA, I feel he's gotten more comfortable with the characters and feel of the book after kind of a rocky start. Honestly, the last couple of issues I bought I thought were pretty darn gorgeous! And that's despite having multiple inkers ever damn issue! If it wasn't for the damn JSA crossover and the commitment to the extra dollars I'd have had to make, I wouldn't have stopped buying it. Bagley's art (and Robinson's slowly improving scripts) would've kept me aboard otherwise.
Posted by Fanfic Lass on :
That might be a moot point, if there's any truth to the rumor I saw on the DCMBs (I lurk there) about Bagley's contract being up after JLA #50 and him returning to Marvel.
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
Well I guess my opinion on the art doesn't really matter considering I haven't bought JLA for three months. Or, since, #43 came out.
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
I'm sorry but the latest issue of the JSA/JLA cross over was bad, all around. Robinson's dialouge was tough to swallow and Bagley's art was all over the place. This creative team has had it tough on JLA, throwing in another dozen JSAers hasn't helped them improve.
Posted by Chief Taylor on :
Looks like my decision to drop this book before the big crossover was the right one.
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
You know what's funny? I mean, really funny?
I recall Robinson saying something about never killing another character after Lian Harper... and then he pretty much destroyed the Tangent Universe.
And for some reason, the character HE redesigned, Green Lantern, survives.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
All the Tangent heroes have been killed?
Why hasn't some irate fan kicked Robinson in the balls yet?
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
I think he decimated the Tangent Universe.
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
The Crime Syndicate ravaged the Tangent Earth and killed many of its heroes.
Posted by Chief Lardy on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: All the Tangent heroes have been killed?
Why hasn't some irate fan kicked Robinson in the balls yet?
Must be his charming English accent. Posted by Dev Em on :
Not gonna give Robinson a pass on it...but, this sounds like another Didio mandated thing.
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
Everytime something bad happens in the DCU we blame Didio.
The reasons above are why I don't respect Robinson's writings.
Posted by MLLASH on :
I cleared out my pull and there were 3 issues of this in it. I wish I had not bought them, but I will read them and if they suck even partially, this book gets the axe.
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
You're a braver person than I.
Posted by Dev Em on :
quote:Originally posted by Sarcasm Kid: Everytime something bad happens in the DCU we blame Didio.
The reasons above are why I don't respect Robinson's writings.
I said I do not give Robinson a pass on this...but something like this would have to come from, or get full approval of Didio, Lee and Johns. So I guess we can spread the love around here.
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
Well I stopped buying anything Robinson writes after he tried passing off his cutting off Roy's arm in some "tribute" to our veterans who've lost limbs in war.
Some garbage about creating a hero with a prosthetic that's not cybernetic.
Posted by Dev Em on :
Thing is, it would not have been as bad as all that...if he had stopped at that point. Killing Lian, and most of Star City along the way made it too much.
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
That's not it. I only have to type one word.
Cyborg.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by MLLASH: I cleared out my pull and there were 3 issues of this in it. I wish I had not bought them, but I will read them and if they suck even partially, this book gets the axe.
Well, I'm at least curious as to your reactions.
Like Dev, I also put a huge amount of blame on Dan Didio, the single worst EiC in comic book history.
SK, are you saying Cyborg has also been killed? I can't believe it. That would be truly outrageous.
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
No, I'm saying Robinson hacking off Roy's arm in some half-assed attempt at a tribute to our veterans , by giving a superhero a prosthetic that's not cybernetic is just stupid, Cyborg is pretty much a WALKING prosthetic.
Posted by Dev Em on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: Like Dev, I also put a huge amount of blame on Dan Didio, the single worst EiC in comic book history.
Jemas (?) will always hold that record in my book, but Quesada and Didio is coming a close second and third.
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
Who is Jemas?
Posted by Dev Em on :
Bill Jemas, the guy in charge of marvel before Q.
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
Care to explain some of his blunders? The most I know of Marvel before Q was Generation X, and I love that.
Posted by MLLASH on :
Well I read JLoA 50-52. Crime Syndicate!! They kinda hooked me with that, as I love the CSoA (as evil villains).
And the story kept me interested. And it was nice to see BLUE JAY back... I was sure he had been killed at some point--?!?
But, oh look: a hero dies next month. Wanna bet it's Blue Jay? *weary sigh*
I'm betting the Tangent and SCoA earths are restored by the end of this story.
My biggest problem remains the spreading out of 1 page worth of panels over 2 pages. 2 pages with 4 or 5 giant panels is just not acceptable.
Thank GAWD they are hopefully making this a moot issue with the new smaller page counts (along with a drop in price of $1/issue).
I'll see how this story plays out next issue (and also I want to see if they do indeed drop the current bloated-style storytelling).
Posted by Power Boy on :
MARK BAGLEY is my Rob Liefield. He can break me from any book. (sorry IMO)
Posted by Chief Lardy on :
^Well, good news, I suppose, PB--Bagley's leaving DC (and JLA) to return to his old Marvel stomping grounds. Seems he's drawing or helping draw Ultimate Spidey again during its upcoming "Death of Spider-Man" storyline. Not sure off the top of my head who's replacing him on JLA.
Posted by Power Boy on :
very good news! i'm a much bigger fan of the JLA than Spidey.
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by Power Boy: MARK BAGLEY is my Rob Liefield. He can break me from any book. (sorry IMO)
THANK YOU. What is the appeal to this guy's art?
Posted by Power Boy on :
idk, i remember he won the fan contest in the 90s (not sure on date) to be a penciller of a Marvel comic book. he ran on the New Warriors ... issue 1 to whatever. i used to read it for a while but just couldn't hang with the art .... and the stories went downhill around issue 10 i think. (IMO)
he draws feet like flippers. >)
and everybody has a crooked grin on their faces. Posted by Fanfic Lady on :
Great review, Lash.
Chief, Brett Booth is replacing Bagley.
Posted by Chief Lardy on :
I'll stick up for Bags if no one else will. I was never a fan of his until Ultimate Spidey. I feel like he absolutely nailed that book so much that he's been irreplaceable. He also preceded that run with a terrific run on the Thunderbolts.
Previously, I had never cared for his run on Amazing Spidey and was underwhelmed by what little I'd seen of his New Warriors stuff.
His JLA work wasn't atrocious, but I think it exposed his limitations in that big, epic storytelling is not his thing. Smaller stories are his wheelhouse. Didn't help that he was producing 30 pages each issue with an average of three different inkers per.
Again, though, I loved practically every page he did for Ultimate Spidey. At DC, a Blue Beetle or Robin (could you imagine him with Chuck Dixon on a Tim Drake book?!?! ) title would've suited his talents better and possibly rocked our asses off!
Posted by Chief Lardy on :
quote:Originally posted by Fanfic Lady: Chief, Brett Booth is replacing Bagley.
Ah, yes. Odd that Booth is suddenly popping back up again outta nowhere (here and the recent Larfleeze Special). I remember him being a part of the early Wildstorm stable and could swear he hasn't done anything in about a decade. :confused:I
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
Didn't he work on the Anita Blake comics?
Posted by Fanfic Lady on :
quote:Originally posted by Chief Lardy: I'll stick up for Bags if no one else will. I was never a fan of his until Ultimate Spidey. I feel like he absolutely nailed that book so much that he's been irreplaceable. He also preceded that run with a terrific run on the Thunderbolts.
Previously, I had never cared for his run on Amazing Spidey and was underwhelmed by what little I'd seen of his New Warriors stuff.
His JLA work wasn't atrocious, but I think it exposed his limitations in that big, epic storytelling is not his thing. Smaller stories are his wheelhouse. Didn't help that he was producing 30 pages each issue with an average of three different inkers per.
Again, though, I loved practically every page he did for Ultimate Spidey. At DC, a Blue Beetle or Robin (could you imagine him with Chuck Dixon on a Tim Drake book?!?! ) title would've suited his talents better and possibly rocked our asses off!
I love Bagley. The only reason I didn't stick up for him before is because I stuck up for him earlier in this thread.
Me, I've adored everything he's done going way back to New Warriors, even when the writing hasn't been up to snuff. I'm glad he's leaving JLA, so I don't have to waste my time Byrne-stealing it anymore.
Cobie has said in the past that Bagley would be good on Flash, and I agree with him. Since Flash already has Manapul, I'd love to see Bagley do an "All-Star Flash" type project.
Posted by Dev Em on :
Haven't been here in this thread since my post, but I love Bags as well. He just has a style that I like. He was perfect on Ultimate Spider-Man as Chief said. I did like his work on the New Warriors as well.
His style may not be for everyone, but that's okay...I don't like a lot of stuff that some people do.
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
You guys are obviously seeing something I'm not in terms of this guy's art.
But I still stand on my Robinson Veto, which sucks because he wrote three issues of Generation X.
Posted by MLLASH on :
For the record, I think his art is good. What I object to is, as I stated, the 1 page of panels spread over 2 pages style of bloated storytelling, which is, IMO, equally the fault of DC directives to raise the prices of titles $1 for additional pages but the writers and artists not doing the additional work for those pages.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I'm a huge fan of Bagley's artwork. I think his layouts are dynamic and full of energy, and his artwork can enhance an overly wording or boring writer in a big way.
I know when Bendis first brought his indie writing style to USM, his talking heads approach could have really hurt the title, but Bags artwork alleviated that problem by adding in dynamic poses and explosive layouts. (Bendis has since changed his writing style dramatically and even credits Bagley with helping him adapt to superheroes).
Bagley's artwork also conveys a sense of fun to it that is well-fit for superhero comics. His characters have power behind their movements but not overly filled with excess violence.
Like FL said, I think he'd be great on Flash since his energetic style would lend itself well to the premiere speed-based superhero in comics. I also think he drew a terrific Wonder Woman and his style could really take WW in a different direction one day. Another character I think he'd be excellent for would be Firestorm.
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
So in Starman/Congorilla...
Click Here For A SpoilerRobinson attempts to undo one of his screw-ups from Cry for Justice by revealing that Tasmanian Devil wasn't really dead, he was only skinned and kept alive by Prometheus for experimentation. But he's okat now. Posted by Power Boy on :
dosn't sound like something you can recover easily from ....
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
Robinson retconned it by saying Tas had been flayed alive and kept in a tank.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
More on the STARMAN/CONGORILLA One-shot: OK, I really liked this. From the surprisingly frank conversation between comics' newest buddies to the back-from-the-dead suprise at issue's end, I thought this a fun read.
Like Superboy this month, it's told in a 'then/now' narrative alteration that somewhat muddles reading, but does build a certain momentum that partially justifies its usage.
Guest stars Rex the Wonder Dog (has he ever teamed with Diana?), Animal Man and Malaver (a genius from Gorilla City) and the subject of the previously-mentioned resurrection are well-used. As is the central plot device/setting, one which almost exclusively appears in the Batverse. I find it refreshing to read it used out of the shadow of Batman's cape.
The resurectee? Click Here For A Spoiler Tasmanian Devil. Who shares a bit of a flirtation with Starman. And is the subject of more dialogue between Mik and Congorilla once Tas teleports away
Never one of my favorites, but I'm glad to see him back, nonetheless.
A pleasant surprise, for me.
Posted by MLLASH on :
**I LOVED** Starman/Congorilla!!!
It has actually restored my faith in Robinson's writing and I would much rather read him write a Starman/Congorilla series (with Tas, Rex and Animal Man) than the current JLoA.
Make these guys a team, add Vixen and thee we are.
Art was fantastic too.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
It would have to be better than recent JLA issues. Couldn't get much worse in my eyes. I just haven't been enjoying this incarnation of the JLA. Things have seemed off since the start, and havent' really seemed to gel at all.
Posted by Ambush Bug on :
quote:Originally posted by MLLASH: **I LOVED** Starman/Congorilla!!!
It has actually restored my faith in Robinson's writing and I would much rather read him write a Starman/Congorilla series (with Tas, Rex and Animal Man) than the current JLoA.
Make these guys a team, add Vixen and thee we are.
Art was fantastic too.
Buddy's in this? I may have to get it then.
Posted by MLLASH on :
Not a huge role but yes, he is part of the ensemble cast Robinson assembles!
Posted by Ambush Bug on :
Thanks, I'll check ir out then and decide in the store.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
I like Buddy, still waiting on the final issue of the last days of animal man mini by Gerry. My LCS missed it.
But it may not be enough to interest me. I still miss Will Peyton as starman.
Posted by Ambush Bug on :
Rick, was the mini good overall...so far as you know without reading the last issue?
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
JLA 53: Reading Donna's 'thought blocks' (the fact that hers has a black background can't be good, can it?) makes me wonder why she wasn't the 'darkened' character instead of Supergirl? If either of them need to be darkened. Donna Troy, Supergirl, Mary Marvel-- perhaps comics' three most wholesome 'girl next door' characters. So, of course, DC has to 'darken' them. Ugh. They really don't know when they've got gold in their pockets, do they?
With the Crime Syndicate on hand, was it really necessary to introduce this ridiculous looking waste-of-a-good-name 'Omega Man'? I would much rather have read more of that twisted central love-triangle-gone-wrong (Ultraman, Owlman, Superwoman) than anything to do with yet another reality warping supervillain. Or, better yet, read more about some of the Earth-whatever counterparts to Aquaman, Black Canary, etc.
Though, to contradict myself, I'm glad we *didn't* meet direct counterparts to the current JLA members. The indirect parallels were close enough for *this* story.
Super-glad that Blue Jay and the Tangent GL (not to mention her world) survive to appear again in 2020 or so. Whish they'd gotten more room to shine, here. I would've welcomed BJ (heh!) as a JLA member. The current group would've been a good fit for him. Ah, well.
So, did Blue Jay follow GL to Tangent Earth? Or to some random restored world? It'd be nice to get follow-up. Maybe wherever he lands will be in such a mess that he has to reconnect with the regular DC heroes for help- followed by a homecoming. (I know, not his original home...). His motivation for leaving's pretty weak, I thought.
It'll be nice to have Congorilla and Starman back for the next storyline. Their absence did serve to point how well- or poorly- Robinson grasps the other charcters. We know he's got the golden gorilla and Starman down- just read their special for evidence. I'm not following the BatDick stuff in other books, so I can't compare current portrayals there, but to me this Batman is a character who's neither Dick Grayson nor Batman. There are moments when I think Dick comes through (hee-hee!), but I'm just not sold on him. I'd vastly prefer to see Nightwing leading this JLA, but that's something I'm just not going to get.
Donna's thought blocks indicate that Robinson has plans for dealing with her personality issues, so that's to the good.
Supergirl's mired in this 'dark' version of herself. So, until that's over, Robinson gets a pass.
Jesse Quick might as well be in JSA, for all the attention she's getting.
Jade. Does Jade read as at all familiar to anyone else? She doesn't to me. She used to have a sense of humor. And was somewhat self-absorbed at times. I'd like to see her ambitions to be an actress resurface. I hope she'll be able to fully reconnect with her family after the Eclipso storyline. Or perhaps when Brightest Day is over? I guess being cut off from them could account for tamping down her sense of humor.
The colors were pretty this issue.
Unfortunately, the story and its final page don't quite earn the glory and acclaim and approbation that DC's gathered heroes are shown expressing.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
#54: Eclipso's back. I was sad to see Bruce Gordon caught up in Eclisping drama again. There's a good bit of Eclipso-history in the book, which is a good thing since it's been awhile since the character's been used- outside of the strange Jean Loring episodes.
After the history lesson, it's the gathering of The Eclipsed. Starting with The Shade. It's great, of course, to read Robinson writing this character again, since his work with the not-quite-bad guy in STARMAN is well-remembered and widely admired. I get the feeling that The Shade's not quite as eclipsed as he appears, but I could well be wrong.
Next up, another favorite- Nightshade. We don't really get a sense of her. It was news to me that she was marrying Jim Rook, Nightmaster- if you can trust Eclipso's narration. He takes out the Myrran hero and eclipses Eve Eden.
Acrata? I don't recall her at all. I love it when characters even more obscure than those that are usually my favorites appear. I didn't find anything about her all that compelling, but I get a kick some reader somewhere might become so curious about her that she becomes a favorite. Like Black Orchid, for me. Or Animal Lad. Or Gas Girl.
Then Shadow Thief. Of course.
Bete-Noire. Vaguely familiar.
Dark Crow. This is a new character, surely. A Royal Canadian Mounted Shadow warrior whose dark power manifests in a shadow raven? I want to know more...
The accumulated group visits or views Syththunu, a dark-powered elder god who sleeps and whom Eclipso wants to wake for untold purpose.
One more name is on Eclipso's 'to do' list. One more DC character to get the purply half-moon face. Look at those gathered. One name comes pretty quickly to mind, doesn't it? Considering that this is a Justice League title? What other shadow-powered hero could Eclipso be after.
Obsidian your guess?
Wrong.
It's Jade that's next on Eclipso's list.
Due to future revelations in DC's solicits, we know Obsidian's coming, though.
Posted by MLLASH on :
I still haven't gotten rid of the bad taste in my mouth from Eclipso's murder of Infinity Inc's Dr. Midnight and Wildcat, but this was an okay-enough setup issue for the storyline.
Love the art, this is, I believe, the guy who did the art or the WONDERFUL Starman/Congorilla 1-shot that I loved.
Posted by Power Boy on :
picked this one up, (after a boycott) like the new artist ...
i hope somehow nightshade ends up joining the JLA ... and that we get to see more JLA'ers next month.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
Dev, the mini was good, even though I don't have the last issue. Tough to mess up Buddy, honestly, but Gerry maintained a great feel with the character. It really did seem you were reading about a real guy that was nearing the end of his career, taking stock, re-evaluating. Take away the superhero elements, and it could have been any story about a guy that was married to the job and in being so lost contact with his family.
Gerry's time in TV has only sharpened his already prodigous skills.
Posted by Dev Em on :
Thanks Rick. I'm going to have to hunt that down then.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Oh, Lord- not another turn to the 'dark side' for Obsidian... this is really getting old. I hope he 'snaps to' all on his own and saves the day- though I suspect Jade'll be the star of the show since she's the JLAer and this rendition of the team apparently has to constantly prove itself worthy.
Otherwise, I quite like this storyline thus far.
Posted by Power Boy on :
I think he's good. he rescued them. it's not clear but i think he's good.
Posted by Dave Hackett on :
Got the DcNu Justice League this morning. Kind of Underwhelming. Bats & GL meet for the first time tracking a Parademon. It blows up, leaving a Mother Box behind. They decide to track down another "known" alien (Superman). Nobody likes or trusts the heroes and they don't like each or trust each other. More infighting on the way next issue.
For an exciting new launch, this was pretty bland.
Posted by Iam Legion on :
Against my better judgement, I aquired this issue along with 'Flashpoint #5' just to get a feel for the DCnU. Based on 'Justice League' I won't be buying any of DC's titles (including the Legion material) from here out. This was the worst drivel I have seen in a long time. It was boring, bland and tasteless with a tired, hackneyed plot. What a complete waste of time and money.
Posted by Future on :
I'm a bit torn on the issue. I enjoyed it enough while I was reading it, but at the end it didn't offer me much excitement about the title or DCNu. My expectations may have been too high. The pacing is clearly designed with trades and new readers in mind. The story spent some time setting up the general feel for super heroes five years ago in the DCNu and then put itself on repeat with Batman and Green Lantern trying to rile each other. Not much else to offer except an interlude of Vic's pre-Cyborg days, a "To Be Continued" Parademon/Darkseid tease, and a cliffhanger for a fight I personally don't need to see.
This type of origin story and pacing is understandable as part of a cautiously told backstory for the DCNu, but as THE big first step into this reality I felt underwhelmed. I suppose after months of waiting I'm impatient and don't like that I have to wait four to five more months for essentially an origin story. I'm going to stick around to get the first arc and hope to get more charmed as the story goes.
The art was pretty though.
Posted by MLLASH on :
JUSTICE LEAGUE # 1
I'll state off the bat that Jim Lee knocks the art out of the ballpark and into the stratosphere.
Geoff Johns' story seems a little thin so far. I read this book FAR more quickly than I would have liked, considering it was 24 pages and a higher pricetag.
Some brief breakdowns:
LOVE AND ROCKETS
Looks like Batman can now shoot rockets and shit outta his gloves. Who needs powers, Green Lantern?
THE GANG IS DOWN TO FIGHT, YEAH
I'm a bit scared the gathering-together of the League is going to consist of a bunch of big fight scenes, with them battling each other. Don't care for this much, if so.
BAD SIDE NOT BAD SEED
Looks like we have the definitive pronunciation for Darkseid in this 'verse. Speaking of old Granite-Crotch, I like that he's back already.
SPLISH-SPLASH
The overuse of splashes and oversized panels already has me as nervous as 4 cats in a burlap sack.
SHARP-DRESSED MAN
Superman's new suit isn't so bad, to me. Everyone looked pretty good outfitwise. Kudos to Lee again for that.
I CAN SEE CLEARLY
And clearly, Wonder Woman, Aquaman and Flash were no-shows. This disappointed me.
I BELIEVE THE CHILDREN ARE OUR FUTURE
The story read very much to me like it was being created for a MUCH younger audience. I mean MUCH CONSIDERABLY younger. This makes me uneasy.
SHOULD I STAY OR SHOULD I GO
I will buy JL # 2. If I still feel unease over the overuse of splashes and the oversimplified writing, it will be my final purchase of JL.
There's plenty of other things I can spend $4 on that won't cause me any unease at all, like a beer.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Hm, overwhelmingly the reviews of JL #1 are very 'meh'! Will this bring my expectations down even lower and help me enjoy it?
Sounds like Lee is still amazing while Johns continues his steady decline. Your reviews have me anxious to buy / read / review!
Posted by Power Boy on :
A critique of DC and the JL - 'The Vanguard of the New 52':
DC has been telling us that this reboot is a chance to do NEW NEW NEW and open things up .... but it seems with JL #1 they are doing an origin story yet again.
First of all - The 'NEW' look:
The new art looks like Jim Lee in the 90s. It just does IMO. I heard them speak about the costume designs and wanting them to have unifying elements like high collars. But WHY ? These people don't know each other yet ... Why would an amazon, a kryptonian, and an atlantean have unifying features in their costumes at this point.
I don't think the costumes look that different. As Alan Davis says 'I don't see how underwear or not underwear on the outside makes a character more interesting?"
I think all the lines intended to look like body armor are very dated and messy. Costumes that look like body armor is 30 years old now. (nod to Keith Giffen) Marvel even went a step further in the late 80s saying their clothes WERE body armor without having to look like body armor. That's the future.
The Flash's costume and how it assembles around him and he runs into it ... Marvel's been doing similar things with Iron Man and the Ultimate Universe for a while. Maybe DC too. I don't think it's that important. Seems like they're making a whole lotta deal out of something that's not actually a story.
And how come they got rid of the underwear but not the boots ... like Green Lantern wearing colored boots isn't just as divorced from reality as wearing your underpants on the outside. And skin tight clothes ....
Maybe underwear on the outside and other comic costume conventions is a comic book thing, maybe because it looks cool or more clear in this 2D format.
----------------------------------------------------- Let's get started on the JL:
Overall .. I don't see much new or fresh in this issue 'The Vanguard of the new 52'
I won't get started on 'diversity'.
Jim Lee seems to have advanced as far as story telling from panel to panel, I think his work since X-Men #1 has become less polished though.
Click Here For A Spoiler We've got about six pages of Batman chasing after a zombie looking parademon. Green Lantern shows up page 7.
In this issue ..... Green Lantern's power effects with the detailed constructions are a little distracting to me, I think they need some explanation because, I don't think Green Lantern is smart enough to imagine every little piece in those constructs and how they go together. So the ring must be making things up from life from GL's suggestions. If the ring's going to make things up just from GL's desires ..... I might prefer a magic djinn approach to constructs. Like big fists .. or things just looking as if they happened from magic instead of bringing the ring down to the mundane world and our time/technology level.
Green Lantern seems to be a d@#K. I'm not sure I would write Hal Jordan this way either ... maybe test pilots are quiet, cool, and solitary ? (maybe he's not a test pilot anymore )
Click Here For A Spoiler Anyway, this GL has an extraterrestrial bent.
10 pages of Batman and GL being snarky while chasing a parademon shapesifter.
Dear DC, 'Sassy' is not necessarily 'Interesting', Mostly it's just 'unlikeable'. TY, Peebs
Click Here For A Spoiler Like someone said before, Batman is a normal human, everyone *hates and fears* superheroes. (where have we heard that before ??) (... Including Batman who thinks Superman is dangerous. )
They find what looks like a Mother Box or some Similar New God box.
Cut to a few pages of a healthy and whole Vic Stone ... who's dad may be a scientist focused on super heroes. Vic seems to be set to fill the 'new kid' role for the JLA. (great ... *diversity* yeah thanks. ) I hope we don't have to go through his origin again and see him crippled.
Anyway, Bats and GL go to find Superman, Superman kicks GL's butt ... and says something snarky. He looks young. His costume also has lines all over it.
Overall, I think the most disappointing thing for me is that this is yet another origin story. Everybody's gotta remake the wheel poorly. So, I assume that it'll take the 4-6 issues (Conveniently TPB size ... and be called something like 'a new begining' 'the future starts here' 'etc.' )
As far as I'm concerned this is a 'non-issue'. Call me when they actually have a team and have adventures.
Back to DC, I hope Jim Lee dosn't do for DC what he did for the X-Books in the 90s. Sell the heck out of a few issues and then alienate a lot of long time readers.
I read an article in the New York Times today about the Reboot and Justice League #1. It said that DC was desperate and this was a last ditch attempt to reverse a sales plummet. (especially as DC is always trailing Marvel)
My opinion is that DC's strategy is to copy some of Marvel's strategies (and IMO, quality is suspect when you're not genuine) ... and to pander to the changing culture ... and to the entertainment industry and film potential. I mean sure ... Movies make so much more than comics.
However, It would be nice to see some stories, underwear and all (or not) that didn't pander or beg to other medias or an audience but, that just were of such a great quality ... that they were a *thing* in themselves ... and were accepted, liked, and bought for how awesome they are.
It may be unrealistic to think that comics would gain mass market approval for their hokey underwear on the outside culture but, ...
... since when is selling 50,000 copies a month of one product out of 50 ... bad?
[ September 01, 2011, 02:28 AM: Message edited by: Power Boy ]
Posted by Power Boy on :
This article touches on some of the same points but is a bit kinder I think:
I liked Justice League #1. I like the new costume designs. There's nothing I can say that will convince those who don't like them to feel any better about the changes. I find them sleek, appealing, and easy on the eyes.
I'm glad Johns decided to start out with the origin story. I hate trying to fill in the blanks. Most stories have a beginning, middle, and an end. Starting at the beginning seems like the most natural way to do it.
I'm also cool with the fact that not everyone has been introduced yet. No need to rush it. The contrast in personalities and power levels between Batman and Green Lantern was well played. By the end of this story, these very different individuals will be teammates. They will eventually share a fraternity as members of League. Let's see how they get there.
I totally support Cyborg being a founding member. DC is getting a lot of flack for making attempts at diversity. I would be giving them flack if they weren't making these attempts. Vic will hold his own. His place here flows very naturally from the set up in Flashpoint.
Superman's introduction was too brief, but set a good tone. No mopey man in blue here. Fun and powerful. I'm looking forward to seeing more.
Posted by Power Boy on :
I just want to be clear that I am rolling my eyes at what I would call DC's lip service that the reboot will add diversity. When this league is actually less diverse than the previous boot. (IMO so far... Maybe JLI will be more diverse. ) No Vixen, John Stewart, Dr. Light, Black Lightning, etc., and we'll see about Firestorm. I guess the Atom is actually Ryan Choi. I'm all for Cyborg being in the JL and a founder ... I'd rather him not be the 'kid member' or the 'trainee'. I will wait and see though.
[ September 02, 2011, 01:51 AM: Message edited by: Power Boy ]
Posted by Jerry on :
Yes, the previous version added members as time went on, as this one will. This will be the first time the Justice League has an African American character as a founder. Of those mentioned, Cyborg is the best choice, in my opinion.
John would have been great - but then people would have said that Hal should have been in instead.
Black Lightning has evolved into a great character but started out with some stereotypical traits -- and was introduced at a time when many black characters had "Black" in their name.
Vixen is also awesome, but less recognizable. Vic has been associated with the League since the 80s Super Friends appearances, and his other television and cartoon work means he is more recognizable to the general public.
I think it's a good call.
Posted by Future on :
After Justice League #1, I'm actually most excited to read about Cyborg of the seven founders. That's something I never thought I would say but am pleased I can! I should have given the issue more credit in my previous review for that. His set-up and the hint with his father is more intriguing to me than the upcoming Superman vs Batman battle and is part of the reason I want to keep reading the storyline.
Posted by doublechinner on :
Cobie, I really enjoyed it. It is important to realize, though, that this not just the origin of the League -- it is the origin of the shared DCnU. If you wanted to see all 14 Leaguers by the end of #1, you will be disappointed. If you enjoy individual characters bouncing off each other with some desultory comic book action exceedingly well conceived and drawn by Johns & Lee, you will enjoy the book. I've heard the approach compared to the first issues of Ultimate Spidey.
I didn't find GL to be too d!@kish AT ALL; he's young, he's the world's best test pilot, and he's just gotten a nigh-omnipotent weapon from a group of immortal aliens who police the entire universe! I loved it! It is a better intro, in a few panels, to who Hal Jordan GL is than the whole movie! If that person was portrayed as diffident, self deprecating and cautious, I would complain of poor characterization. And the ring constructs are the most interesting since GL: Rebirth. The whole POINT of the new JL AND the new origin is to show HOW such very different people, who are each paragons of humanity, but each with different personalities, actually learn to work together. If Johns & Lee tell THAT story convincingly, I think it is worth reading.
There are moments of very good, true humor in it, too, which I won't spoil at all, that remind me of the early JL of Giffen & DeMatteis, before it got all bwahaha. I also think the book echoes the excellent Bruce Timm cartoon in many good ways. The story IS still very decompressed, my only big complaint. But it ends on a note that left me eager for the next ish, and the Vic Stone material is nicely done, a point of view counterbalance to the highly charged Batman / GL meeting.
Posted by doublechinner on :
It also can NOT be stressed often enough that this book is geared as an origin for the whole shared universe and the League, pitched for a brand new reader who is not bored with origins. As an old fart, I have the same weariness with comic book origins. I am reading this as if I had never read one before. Plus, the League never had a good origin. This is the origin for a League from a very different world. The Justice League of America was created at the end of the 1950s as a reboot of the Justice Society, which was created in 1940. The model of those groups was the social club, and later the civilian/military partnership of World War II and the Cold War. Despite relatively diverse (for the era) backgrounds, these heroes saw each other as peers who should get together and swap stories and help the community, like the Elks or the Rotary Club. Later, the unifying spirit of WWII, where all of society mobilized, then the societal struggle of the Cold War, that emphasized the best and the brightest defending the country though science and invention, greatly informed those teams. The original heroes of that JLA were almost all the same in personality--well adjusted, urbane guys with girlfriends and wives, for whom forming the JLA was a natural extension of weekend wienie roasts and cocktail parties.
Needless to say, this is a very different world from that one. We want distinctive, fleshed out personalities in our heroes, which makes for interesting reading, but raises big hurdles for teamwork and organizational development. Also, Johns & Lee seem to want to start with something like our current society--diverse and vibrant, but riven with great fear, anxiety, cynicism, and surprisingly mainstream paranoia and conspiratorial delusions, and try and establish an optimistic, heroic universe in that setting. I think it's way too soon to judge their success in that, but I am encouraged that they WANT to tell a story of how an optimistic, heroic culture could grow out of that soil, rather than changing those heroes into paranoid and cynical anti-heroes, which is how I tend to view what Marvel did with to the Avengers with Ultimates.
[ September 02, 2011, 09:04 AM: Message edited by: doublechinner ]
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
I enjoyed the Vic Stone scenes quite a bit, and liked Superman's last minute debut. I don't find Batman and GL relating all that interesting, certainly not something to frame the beginnings of a new DC universe around. In that capacity, I found this a flat failure. The only grandness and scale was in the artistic renderings of GL's ring energies.
I didn't realize that was a parademon till near the end- that was kind of a nice surprise, though I felt stupid for not getting it right away.
Mother Box means New Gods on the way- should I clap or cringe?
All the 'the world hates and fears us' stuff makes me roll my eyes.
This issue did nothing to allay my misgivings about the new DC, with the possible exception of Vic.
Posted by doublechinner on :
My impression is that Johns doesn't want to do grand scale yet, especially because Morrison did it so well, so recently.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Very interesting to get your thoughts, DC! Glad to see a counter-argument being made. More curious than ever to pick up #1 (which I may or may not get around to this weekend).
Posted by doublechinner on :
I shouldn't oversell. It was far from the best comic I have ever read, but as a collection of small moments of potentially great future import, it was enjoyable. I have really soured on Johns the last few years. His epics are too straightforward and anticlimactic, and I think he is better with small, character moments. All I really remember as good in the bloated silliness of the Sinestro Corps War was Hal's family refusing to be afraid and leave Coast City. So, I'm strangely encouraged that JL #1 was made up much more of the things I like in Johns's writing.
Posted by Dev - Em on :
Van only comment on the few pages I have seen in the previews on the wec, and they do not impress me much.
Sure, the art is nice...but looks like an average Jim Lee comic. Not that that is a bad thing.
Characters seem more hard edged...not a big fan of what I have read/seen with that so far. I probably will not read it until the local library gets a copy of the trade, or I find it in a cheap bin.
To me, the first book out of the gate should have been an extra paged, cheaper than normal issue to grab your attention. Get in there, introduce a few characters and get out. Tell a story that has an ending...even if it teases things to come later. But that's just me and my growing frustration with writing for trades.
Posted by lil'rhino on :
I thoroughly enjoyed Justice League #1! The art was big, splashy & colorful, while the story was straightforward, entertaining & could be easily followed by someone who knows nothing about these characters. Good job!
Posted by googoomuck on :
I liked the story but it seemed like it should've been like 8 pages of story, but that's my gripe about all comics these days.
Posted by Dev - Em on :
Let me make something clear here. I think it's great that people are liking it. I just have no desire to red about another iteration of the same characters (yet with tweaked personalities (and I am not liking what I have read so far. It's a personal thing for me.
I'm hoping the new Legion books are alright. The Shade by Robinson is really his baby (character wise, he really defined the Shade) so I think that should be alright. I have hopes for the JSA...Robinson has done them right on several occasions already.
The new hipper DCnU I guess is just not really for me.
Posted by Legion Tracker on :
My comic shop had a bunch of Justice League #1 on the shelves Wednesday. I went back today to pick up a copy for a friend and they were sold out.
Posted by MLLASH on :
Yep... per sources on Facebook it is already on a THIRD printing.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
I understand people's criticisms of the first issue, but I still enjoyed it. I probably would have preferred a more epic start, like how "Kingdom Come" blew the door off its hinges by the end of the first issue, but I'm a huge GL fan, so Hal getting a big spotlight makes me happy. I don't mind the tweaked characterization too much. It makes sense (though I hope he doesn't refer to himself in the third person every issue) and while it reminded me a bit of "All Star Batman and Robin" I believe Johns of all people will give Hal respect by the time this is done.
Aside from being a big GL fan, showing Bats and Hal is a nice change from the recent focus on "the trinity." I expect and hope for new combinations of Leaguers interacting that we haven't seen much of before.
Posted by Chemical King on :
So... this was it? The brand new start into a new era?
Sorry, not good enough. What did we get apart from Jim Lees artwork and some colourful splash pages? Batman and Green Lantern hunting for aliens - and a short look at the updated origin of Vic Stone. Well, this might have worked as an issue of "Brave and the Bold" or "Worlds Finest" - both of which I would NOT have bought - but this was the Justice LEAGUE, and we did not get Flash, not get Aquaman, not get Wonder Woman. they were all on the cover, but not inside the book.
And hey, did anybody notice that we only did get about 24 pages of story, followed by four pages of useless sketch showcasing??? For 3,99 $??? Does this not somehow conflict with the "Drawing the line at 2,99" policy of the company?
No, I have to say that I'm slightly disappointed. I did not expect to get the whole origin story in one issue (to be true, I did not expect to get an origin issue at all). But a little more than the current movie cashcows Batman and Green Lantern bickering would have been nice.
I'm glad that apart from GL and Superman (only due to George Perez being involved), I only did preorder titles from the "rim" of the new DCU like Voodoo or Resurrection Man. I guess DC is going heavily towards creating some kind of "Ultimate DC" feeling - but is going to fail in the end.
Posted by MLLASH on :
Now, you wanna read a REALLY GOOD Justice league book, get the JLA 1990s RETROACTIVE.
The BwaHaHa Boys are back-- Giff, DeMatteis and Maguire, and they are in tip-top form!
Some extremely odd coloring going on in the lead story though, in places. I know Kevin Maguire expressed disappointment over it on Facebook. It's really only majorly distracting in two instances where it is WAY too dark.
The backup reprint was also thoroughly enjoyable, the final Giffen/Dematteis/Maguire outing from BREAKDOWNS.
It also reminded me of someone... whatever happened to Catherine, the League's European branch CEO? She had a big role in the reprint story.
Anyhoo, the new tale features the Injustice League at their most ridonkulous but actually serves to give some backstory on just how they became JLAntarctica!
Grade: A If you loved the original version then you will love this. If you hated the original version, this won't change your mind.
Posted by Bicycle Repair Man on :
Someone should have started a new topic for the latest Justice League relaunch; I have a few things I want to say about the last few issues of the previous incarnation of the League before moving on.
The 6-issue Eclipso arc was at least three issues too long, given the amount of actual story content involved (some might argue that it was six issues too long, but then, I was already rather sick of Eclipso before this arc started ); another unfortunate example of "writing for the TPB". It didn't help that Robinson had to shoehorn in Doomsday for an issue to serve the Doomsday crossover storyline that ran through the Super-titles earlier this year.
It occurs to me that Robinson may have chosen Eclipso for his last major JLA storyline just as an excuse to feature the Shade in a few more issues, as free publicity for the upcoming Shade miniseries.
Ah, but the last issue (JLA 60) ... this was more the sort of thing that I had looked for from Robinson: fascinating character interaction, and several imaginative plot ideas (in the "untold tales") -- pity we couldn't have had a couple of those instead of Eclipso.
Posted by Bicycle Repair Man on :
Aaaaand moving on: Justice League # 1
I winced at the mention of the name "Darkseid", but then I remembered that this story is set in the past. I'm crossing my fingers in hopes that ol' Granite-Face is still dead in the present-day post-Flashpoint DCnU (and boy is it hard to type with my fingers crossed ) and that after this new JL origin story is completed we won't see him again for a looooong time (like, when he wakes up for the Great Darkness saga).
I thought the first issue was a decent read with pretty pictures, but nothing really special. I tend to agree with those who wished for fewer splash pages and a little more story content.
I can see merit in both sides of the argument over whether it would have been better to launch the new series in the present, so we could have seen the entire membership in the first issue (or at least the first storyarc), and then go back and tell the origin story later. One possible explanation for starting with the origin occurred to me which I haven't seen anyone else mention, so I'm suggesting it here: maybe the editors felt that starting with a present-day DCnU JL adventure would have "spoiled" certain info which the writers of the titles featuring the individual members of the League wanted to reveal over the course of *their* first storyarcs.
The way Cyborg was used here makes me pretty confident that the Wolfman/Perez Titans have been erased from the history of the DCnU ... just in time for the "Masks" Graphic novel!! Posted by SharkLad on :
quote:Originally posted by lil'rhino: I thoroughly enjoyed Justice League #1! The art was big, splashy & colorful, while the story was straightforward, entertaining & could be easily followed by someone who knows nothing about these characters. Good job!
I'm right there with ya, Rhino... I didn't have high expectations for the book... I think Johns and Lee are pretty much hacks, but even hacks can be entertaining and this was... I'm going to stick around for a while...
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
So yesterday I was able to hit up the comic book shop and actually felt quite a bit of excitement picking up DC’s new #1 titles. So, score one for DC. I figured I’d start with Justice League, since that was intended as their ‘introductory’ title; it also has the most (over?) hyped creative team in comics, so what I plan to do is review it, and then henceforth throughout September whenever I review another title, add in “was it better than Justice League #1?”. Is that fair? Probably not, but I’ve never cared much for fairness.
So, Justice League by Geoff Johns and Jim Lee. There was a lot of good and a bit of bad, so it was a little of a mixed bag. But overall, I thought it was more good than bad.
The art by Jim Lee was fantastic in my eyes. I’ve always been a fan of Lee, so this was very enjoyable. He’s certainly going for it in his composition and grandiose pencils. The final splash page of Superman is one of the best Superman pages I’ve seen in many years. While there may have been a few too many splash pages and three panel pages, I do appreciate the “summer action film” sense he’s installing here. He’s clearly trying to make things fun, which is something he’s always done well, from X-Men to Image to Hush.
Inker Scott Williams always does a good job aiding and abetting Lee. I do think the new costumes, in their attempt to look like futuristic armor, come off as very scratchy at times though. As if they are still spandex albeit with added lines on them. But it isn’t too distracting. The coloring on the comic was fantastic as well, enough to make it noticeable, which enhanced that big action feel.
As to the writing, I thought it was certainly satisfactory, although it wasn’t anything to write home to Mom about. Like most of us, I’ve read hundreds (thousands?) of “everyone meeting for the first time stories” and so everything in this issue was a little by the numbers. I didn’t mind so much that it was only Batman & Green Lantern this issue but what grated on me is I’ve already seen Johns do this before with GL and Bats. Unfortunately, I think Johns continues his decline from one of the comic industry’s best and brightest to being one more mediocre, by the numbers writer who specializes in big editorial moves but stumbles in execution.
I do think the issue was too padded for the launch point of the entire new universe. Certainly Johns is taking his time and plotting it for a 6 issue trade. In that respect, Jerry’s prior mention of a similarity to Ultimate Spider-Man is dead on (when that title first started 10 years ago). I had the same issue with that series for its first 12 issues: it read fantastic as a trade but was too slow as a monthly. That series changed its pacing around #13 or so; I hope JL doesn’t take that long to do so.
Did I LOVE it? No. Did I like it? Well, yeah, I did like it! When it comes right down to it, the Justice League series has sucked big time for a long, long time now and this is probably the best thing to come since John’s 6 issue “Crisis of Conscience” story many years ago.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
The kick-off of Justice League International seems as an attempt to appeal to fans of the original JLI era while also utilizing the never-realized premise of the Global Guardians / JLI of a UN-based, international superhero team. As long as that premise, of showcasing international heroes, is adhered to, that will increase my enjoyment of this series henceforth.
Overall, I thought the plotting, pacing, dialogue of the first issue was a very traditional team superhero approach that was seen numerous times in the 80’s and 90’s. In that sense, it felt was at the same time like revisiting an old friend, but also a little too familiar. Meaning it makes JLI not the most original or ground-breaking title, but also one that does contain several factors that I already know I enjoy. Jurgens has always been a better artist than writer, but in recent years he’s proven to have matured a bit more in his writing, so perhaps as time goes on, we’ll see how it goes.
The above means the actual roster and mix of superheroes will be all the more important. So far it appears to be the “usual suspects” of JLIers with Batman, Godiva from Global Guardians, Vixen and August General in Iron. I’d have liked something a bit more surprising but its only #1 and the roster isn’t likely set in stone yet. It will definitely be nice to see these characters on an ongoing basis though. Especially Rocket Red who appears to be the same character from that last bi-weekly JLI mini.
Batman really works here for me, even though his inclusion is the exact same thing as Spider-Man and Wolverine in Avengers. What I like is his full support of Booster as leader; he even plays the supportive deputy leader role here. This leads me to believe a lot of Booster’s recent history remains in tact. I’m certainly curious about that, and Rip Hunter’s status.
The rest of the cast besides Guy & Booster just seem to have one-liners so we’ll see what happens from here. For some reason I can’t help but suspect Godiva is being set-up to get killed off. I can’t put my finger on why but instinct from all these years is kicking in.
The page with all the candidates for membership reveal that the Creeper, B’Wana Beast and others are still around, which is cool. I really hope Ted Kord is still in continuity (and Dan Garrett actually)! I guess the Blue Beetle book will let us know soon enough. I suspect not.
UN picketers felt like a forced plot element. The “Signal Men” already sound lame but I’ll give Jurgens the benefit of the doubt to see what he has in store for us. I wonder if he should have gone the route of reintroducing a classic JLA villain like Despero or Starro or something, or at least creating a full-on brand new big bad type.
Cobie Comparison: Did I enjoy it more than Justice League #1? Actually, not quite as much. It wasn’t bad by any means but it felt very average with potential for greatness to come (and an equal amount of potential to be even more vanilla). It’s a wait & see for me as I continue to collect but if someone said they were dropping it, I couldn’t argue against them for it.
Posted by Set on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: The kick-off of Justice League International seems as an attempt to appeal to fans of the original JLI era while also utilizing the never-realized premise of the Global Guardians / JLI of a UN-based, international superhero team.
[tangent] Ever since reading about them in Super Friends (shut up!), I've found the characters now referred to as the Global Guardians fascinating, but, with the exception of the renamed Fire and Ice (who are more likely to be shoehorned in to fill gender quotas, it seems), they mostly seem to appear only to get killed off.
I'd kinda love to see a real Global Guardians series. The idea of an international 'Justice League' that is directed from the shadows by Dr. Mist kinda appeals to me. Of course, I'd want to deboot them back to being alive and having consistent origin stories (getting rid of the conflicting backstories for Ice Ice Maiden) and not suffering from whatever sorts of being skinned (Taz) or scalped (Godiva) or made crazy (Olympian) business has happened to them in the past decade...
I never really 'got' Little Mermaid or Seraph, but most of the others have some coolness potential. [/tangent]
Posted by Blacula on :
^ Global Guardians are absolutely my #1 favourite concept at DC Comics that has never been given the opportunity to prove itself.
This team has so much potential I sometimes lie awake at night dreaming about the stories I could tell with them. I love them all - Dr Mist, Impala, Godiva, Rising Son, Tuatara, Olympian, Wild Huntsman, Little Mermaid, Cascade, Bushmaster, Tasmanian Devil... all of them.
If Global Guardians had been one of the books in the new 52 I might actually still be buying a monthly DC book.
Posted by Invisible Brainiac on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: The kick-off of Justice League International seems as an attempt to appeal to fans of the original JLI era while also utilizing the never-realized premise of the Global Guardians / JLI of a UN-based, international superhero team.
So far it appears to be the “usual suspects” of JLIers with Batman, Godiva from Global Guardians, Vixen and August General in Iron.
Godiva, huh? She did appear in Flashpoint, but I have to say I'm surprised. Owlwoman, Jack O'Lantern, Tazmanian Devil and the Rising Sun have all gotten much more exposure in the past. And living hair isn't THAT powerful. Still, why not? I hope they don't kill her off...
And since this series is meant to be a UN-based team, I hope they bring in Doctor Light. I applauded when they brought her back in the most recent run; it's too bad they weren't really able to use her to her full potential.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
She's a big favorite of mine too, IB so I agree she'd be a welcome addition!
Posted by Future on :
Likewise on the Dr. Light love. I'm surprised, given the premise and her connection, that she WASN'T part of the JLI. Perhaps she'll join up later?
With how eager the UK's representative was about the JLI concept, I wouldn't be surprised if something happened to Godiva for dramatic purposes. If not death, perhaps she goes MIA or takes a stroll down Evil Lane?
Posted by Debbie T. Tastic on :
I completely agree with Cobie's thoughts that:
JLI felt okay/average with potential to be really really good
and
It feels like Godiva is being set up to be killed off (or possibly to be comic relief?). I would prefer the comic relief angle. Her "Sod, off Bats..." line made me giggle.
As JLI was the book I saved for last to read, meaning it was the book I was most looking forward to, I did feel a little let down overall.
Here's hoping it reaches its full potential!
PS/ book I should have saved for last this week: I am thinking it should have been ANIMAL MAN. It will be next month!
Posted by Power Boy on :
It seems this CBR Month has a theme though .... 'better than JL #1'
Posted by Debbie T. Tastic on :
EVERYthing I read was better than JL # 1 to me, except Hawk & Dove.
After JL # 1, I was worried every title would be full of 2-page splashes and little to no story... I am glad I was wrong for the most part!
Posted by Dev - Em on :
Alright. I read this issue. Then after the three minutes was up, I did glance back at some of the pictures. Glad I did not spend the money on this...while it's not a bad comic, it left me massively underwhelmed. Thank you Barnes and Noble for having comics to flip through.
For it's flagship launch into the new DCU, I wish they had done more with it. Had more interaction with other characters. Batman and Green Lantern being snarky with each other and then finding a snarky Superman was kinda blah to me. It was a bit to decompressed for my tastes, but then again, a lot of comics are these days. To me, they could have covered the same ground in about half the time and given a full Superman confrontation and moved them towards the next member. But, that's just me.
Posted by Set on :
JLI #1 is my first impulse buy of the new DCU (Legion Lost, LoSH, Legion: Secret Origins and Legion / Star Trek were must-buys, everything else is optional!), and I'm interested in learning more about August General in Iron, since he's a total cypher to me. The rest I recognize from other stuff, although I've lost track of what Fire's powers are this week...
Godiva seems pretty low-power for this group. Dr. Light (Kimi) might be a better choice. (Or Jet or Gloss or Cascade or Solstice or Belphegor or something.) On the other hand, Godiva clearly has the power to manipulate her hair telekinetically, so she *should* be able to fly under her own power, and not require Booster to carry her around (unless, clever girl, she just *wanted* Booster to carry her around...).
The bird-like fire aura around Vixen while she's using her power to fly might be a useful visual aid, but I really don't like the way it is depicted. I like the idea, but I think it works better in Animal Man than it does here.
Indeed, I'm not loving the art. I'm shallow enough to want Vixen and Fire and Ice to be sexier looking, and August General in Iron and Rocket Red's armors to look better than they do here.
Posted by Fat Cramer on :
I rather liked Justice League, although there wasn't all that much story for the price. Hal is a hothead, Bats outhinks him, nice Green Lantern effects and a parademon. Don't think I'd keep this one as a monthly, though; it looks like a slow build that may read better as a trade.
There was more going on with JLI. They've got a devious, manipulative and self-serving boss (good), a good mix of powers and personalities. I assume Guy will be back and Bats will hang around. Rocket Red and Iron General seem a bit clichéd (funny Russian talk funnier in Cosmo the dog) but not too overbearing.
The team seemed to come together awfully quickly, which is fine, but a great contrast to Justice League, where we don't even have a team (and may not for several issues yet). JLI's probably a keeper, for now.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
The slow build of this JL reminds me of "Supreme Power" although this isn't nearly as compelling. In that book, the slower pacing of the plot allowed for depth of character. Not so much here. Batman and GL seem like character types rather than people. The benefit of using recognizable character types is that you can hustle the plot along, but that's not happening either. We'll see how things move along in the coming months.
Posted by Invisible Brainiac on :
quote:Originally posted by Future: Likewise on the Dr. Light love. I'm surprised, given the premise and her connection, that she WASN'T part of the JLI. Perhaps she'll join up later?
With how eager the UK's representative was about the JLI concept, I wouldn't be surprised if something happened to Godiva for dramatic purposes. If not death, perhaps she goes MIA or takes a stroll down Evil Lane?
Agree about Dr. Light. She totally fits the premise - brownie points with Japan, has worked with the UN a lot, and even with her temper she's still a lot more controllable than Guy Gardner. Maybe later - they DID say more candidates were waiting in the wings.
Page 1 had an add collection. Captain Atom and Metamorpho aren't surprises, but the Creeper and Frankenstein are.
Choosing Plastic Man seems kookier. He doesn't add to the International-ness, and I agree that he's not exactly easy to control.
I think they're overplaying the Godiva = conflict card. Fire calling her felt natural, since Fire has worked with Rocket Red before when the stakes were higher. But Batman telling Godiva to be more involved? She was fighting the rock monsters too. Book could have used more panels on that.
So far I think the writers have the men on the team (Batman, Booster, Guy, Rocket Red and August General) down okay. But Vixen, Ice, and Fire haven't really had much personality, and Godiva seems overplayed. Still, it's only the first issue, so... let's see.
As for the protesters, I can sort of see their logic. I just found it funny that a couple of unarmed (apparently) and non-powered protesters were able to sneak a BOMB and plant it on the wall of the HALL OF JUSTICE - I know it's supposed to be accessible to the public, but yeesh! You'd think something like the former HQ of the Justice League would have more security.
Over on Justice League...
I like how GL and Bats are being written. They work well enough together, but there's some cocky banter going on, too. Superman's a bit surprising, though - he seems pretty cocky here. I guess I'm just so used to the well-mannered blue boy scout portrayal that I can't really get used to this. Maybe Bats (and later on, WW) will knock Supes down a peg or two.
[ September 25, 2011, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: Invisible Brainiac ]
Posted by Dave Hackett on :
Check out the "Re-compressed" issue of JL #1. With a little editing the same story takes less than half the pages:
JUSTICE LEAGUE DARK #1 was a pretty good read. Zatanna, Shade and Enchantress are quite compelling, as is the story they're beginning. The use of June/Enchantress is a little confusing, but I think it's meant to be. The out-of-control witch spell scenes were creepy and sort of fun. Like Enchantress, herself.
Shade's introductory scene was similarly eerie, in a more profound way. The usage of both Shade and June plays off of longtime character history without announcing it in any way.
Zatanna isn't nearly as risque-appearing in the issue as she is on the cover, though her look isn't anywhere close to as appealing as her 'classic' appearance.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Fans of Peter Milligan will rejoice upon reading Justice League Dark #1 because its about as Peter Milligan-y as any comic I’ve ever read! I mean that in a good way, since Milligan brings his A-game here and all of his good qualities shine throughout the entire issue. There is a strong sense of ‘the weird’ ever-present, and a great collection of characters that are not only unique but are totally out of the ordinary in ways that make you just want to read more about them.
If there is an argument for the re-integration of the Vertigo characters back into the DCU, this is the comic that makes it. We get Shade, the Changing Man at his most interesting, Madame Xanadu being her awesome self and a quick glimpse of John Constantine that definitely had me wanting to see more of him again. Best of all, they will be matching up with DC mainstays Zatanna, the Enchantress and Deadman, and who knows who else? Each character is glimpsed but not everyone is featured heavily, so I definitely but the comic down looking forward to the next issue.
Artist Mikeal Janin does a great job and showcases a very clean art style that is entirely his own, though there is almost a hint of Phil Jimenez in there (albeit with all Perez influence removed). I liked it very much, and I was glad to see that while all the characters are sexy, both Zee and Nimue were not given the Starfire treatment in anyway (something I always fear about a new rendition of Zatanna). The coloring is naturally well, er, dark, and it works well.
I really enjoyed this. Of the three Justice League titles, this was the best one.
Posted by Set on :
I like his envisioning of Green Lantern, Cyborg and Wonder Woman, particularly.
It's on Tumblr though, so it loads about as fast as a paraplegic tree sloth that's been sedated.
Posted by Lard Lad on :
In my eternal struggle to catch up on my backlog of funny books, it is only now that I finally arrived at my first DCnU book: Justice League #1. Of course, I've read nearly every single review of it that's been put out on it, so I pretty much knew what to expect.
Heck, most of the criticisms are 100% on the nose--this was a decompressed book with not all that much happening in its pages. GL and Batman meet for the first time as both pursue an apparent Parademon hybrid. It goes boom, leaves behind a mother box and GL decides to drag Bats along to find Superman because, hey, the Parademon thingy and Superman are both aliens!
Whuh? Kind of goofy and as forced and silly a way to get more heroes involved as one could imagine. That's pretty much all that happens, except that we have a scene of Vic Stone pre-Cyborg playing football, having daddy issues and seeing GL and Bats fly over. Yep, there's your 24 pages of story.
On the plus side, seeing Jim Lee on pencils again is like comic book comfort food. This is the kind of book that Jim excels at, and I'd say he has not lost his touch. The Parademon chase was very kinetic and well-executed. I'd say Jim nails everything he's given to draw.
I'd say something else I found annoying was Hal's boasting. I know he's a brash test pilot, but his repeatedly saying he's "got this" or whatever is just annoying.
Honestly, this felt like a Silver Age throwback in a bad way with the simplicity of the plot and the 2-dimensional characters without the Silver Age's good tendency to pack its pages with excitement and wall-to-wall story.
I'll keep buying in hopes that things will improve, but I'm afraid next issue may very well be a big fight between Superman, Batman and GL. If that's all it is, my patience may wear very thin.
Posted by Seemingly Impossible on :
If it was a better GL, like John or Guy, then Brave and the Bold #1 might have... wait, you're saying it was a Justice League comic? That's silly!
Posted by Pov on :
quote:Originally posted by Set: a paraplegic tree sloth that's been sedated.
HEEEEY!!! I resemble that remark!! Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I thought JLI #2 was a move towards a stronger series by Jurgens, Lopresti and Ryan. There was a lot of characters arguing and talking yet it felt like there was still a lot happening. Rather than have this play out for issues on end, Jurgens gets right to the heart of it so the team can address the ‘new team can’t work together blues’ and move past it. Same with the ‘Government telling us how to run the team’ bit, which I also is dealt with and then given some sort of twist.
I really enjoyed August General in Iron’s quick speech.
Also really enjoying Batman’s role as Booster’s supporter.
Now I want Fire, Ice and Vixen to get some showcasing instead of just looking good and kicking ass in the backgrounds.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by Seemingly Impossible: If it was a better GL, like John or Guy, then Brave and the Bold #1 might have... wait, you're saying it was a Justice League comic? That's silly!
Posted by Invisible Brainiac on :
Loved the banter between Fire, Ice, Vixen and Godiva. They have a good dynamic between them.
Also loved the team discussion about Booster's battlefield decisions. Those reactions were realistic.
Hopefully issue 3 will give a quick background on everyone's powers and skills - I can accept that they didn't really have time to do more than introduce themselves on the first mission, but going on a second without a full who's who would be sloppy.
quote:Originally posted by Seemingly Impossible: If it was a better GL, like John or Guy, then Brave and the Bold #1 might have... wait, you're saying it was a Justice League comic? That's silly!
)
Posted by Jerry on :
RE: Justice League #2
This was a really enjoyable book. If you are a Jim Lee fan, this issue is a must. His best work ever, perhaps? That's a big statement to make, I know. It's worth considering.
The team starts to come together. I loved the interaction between Barry and Hal. A couple of the lines made me laugh out loud, Genius. Victor's story has my interest.
After reading the first issue of Wonder Woman, and being disappointed by the lack of back story for her, I wasn't expecting to find it in the text pages of the Justice League. A new motivation for Steve Trevor's initial trip to Paradise Island? Interesting. A Shazam reference? That caught me by surprise.
Those who are still holding out on picking up this book may want to reconsider. It appears to be shaping up to be a quality era for the League.
[ October 21, 2011, 08:27 PM: Message edited by: Jerry ]
Posted by SharkLad on :
re: JL #2
Man, I am totally getting sucked in by this book... loved the interplay between the four leads, especially Hal and Barry. Like Jerry, I laughed out loud a couple of times. Lee's artwork is top-notch, and the text pages were a nice bonus surprise. Looking forward to Wonder Woman's intro to the mix next issue.
Four fins up (out of a possible five) on the Sharky scale
Posted by Invisible Brainiac on :
"And you just called me Barry, genius."
"Batman's real?" "Yeah, and he's a total tool."
Love the Hal-Barry exchanges. Love Batman being the voice of reason this time - he couldn't intimidate Superman, so he reasoned with him. He's got my vote for JLA leader.
Hate how Superman is more aggressive. Part of what appealed to me was the Big Blue Boy Scout persona, since he knew how powerful he was and acted responsibly about it.
Still, this is supposed to take place in the past, so I'll wait and see how they're written when the stories jump back to the present.
Also a bit disappointed that the Martian Manhunter apparently won't be a founder this time. Doesn't really feel like the League without J'Onn.
Posted by Dave Hackett on :
Justice League Dark #2 was OK. It was really more of a breather/gathering issue whereas I was ready to jump right into the meat of the story. The primary focus is the Deadman/Dove relationship, which was really, really relateable, as most couples have sex as their relationship Achilles heel, imagine having to possess a third party to even think about it and you can see how this gets messy. Enchantress and Madame X are suitable creepy and Zatana is great, but there was no Shade and not enough Constantine. I want this party started now, not in a few issues.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
So I thought JL #2 was a big improvement over #1! From a writing perspective at least, as the Jim Lee art was terrific in both issues.
Having Flash there helped add a new element to the banter, and it also helped humanize Hal a bit more other than being a jerk. I'm really enjoying the new portrayal of Superman, so it was also good having him there interacting with them all, especially Batman.
I second IB's comment about Batman being the mature one of the group here. It's a role that fits him, rather than being a dick like writers tended to have him be over the last few years.
I'm not sure how Johns writes his various series, but from a reader's standpoint, it felt as if Aquaman #1 rejuvenated him as a writer and he brought his A-game to JL #2. His dialogue seemed to click a lot better here.
This was a solid issue and has helped alleviate a lot of my concerns and fears for this series. I'm hoping #3 gets right to it with both Wonder Woman and Aquaman, though I suspect Aquaman will wait until #4.
Posted by Jerry on :
Like is said by Cobie and others, this was a huge improvement over issue 1. Art was solid all the way around, and the writing was a big improvement for me at least.
Green Lantern calling Flash at work to come save his arse was great. Flash actually did pretty well against Superman too.The banter between the characters was good, especially Barry and Hal. Loved Hal lecturing Barry on his secret ID as he blurts out Barry's name...when all Barry did was say he was a cop.
Posted by Chemical King on :
JLA #2 - not sold on it. I really like the artwork but well... is this book worth 3.99$?
I decided to call it quits and stop buying it. Especially because it does not deliver anything useful for the additional dollar.
Posted by Dave Hackett on :
Justice League #3 was pretty underwhelming. Not a fan of Johns' Diana interpretation, nor tying Cyborg in to Apokolips tech (though I suppose that's how the League will ultimately win this one). I did like watching Superman unload with the semi-truck and GL and Batman weren't too grating, but the "Meet a member or two an issue" thing just doesn't play well for me.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
#3 had a great introduction of Wonder Woman, but other than that, it felt VERY padded and dragged out. Basically a never-ending battle sequence that could have been taken place in 5-6 pages max.
The ending sequence with the big introduction (and c'mon, it's not really a spoiler if we all knew it was coming) was done very well.
Jim Lee continues to knock it out of the park. He may draw my favorite Superman depiction ever, actually. But somethign I wonder if others may agree on: does anyone else feel that while its still great, his art is not quite as good as it was in the early 90's on X-Men? Again, I really do enjoy it still--but there's just a little something that's missing. I keep thinking of his arc with the Imperial Guard, or where Psylocke goes from boring telepath to kick-ass super-ninja. I reread those two years ago and the artwork almost made me have to take a valium it was so good. I wonder what's slightly changed? Inker? Coloring?
#3 confirms that while this series is definitey good enough to buy on an ongoing basis, there is still some editorial trickery going on that detracts from it slightly.
Posted by Jerry on :
#3 was not as good as #2, but I'm comfortable with the pace. Wonder Woman looked great. We finally get on panel confirmation that Steve is a much younger man in the new DC universe. I sympathize a bit with those getting tired with what seems like a slow and formulaic introduction of the members. The advantage of this approach is that each member gets a bit of a spotlight. With the final page, everyone has now been introduced, and I imagine the pace will be pretty breakneck by the time to get to issue #5.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I found Justice League International #3 to be quite enjoyable! In a weird way, I'm kinding of finding all three JL titles about the same level of quality each month.
JLI #3 used in good effect the old Gardner Fox ploy of splitting the members up into groups. Batman & Booster Gold have great chemistry as written by Jurgens and I found the Fire / Vixen pairing to be the highlight of the issue. Also, I did not mind at all that Godiva was revealed to be somewhat of a fraud (that word might be too harsh) since it would make sense someone would have that motivation--and it could be interesting as its not Booster anymore.
Glad to see the "Giants" plot is going somewhere. I'll be real impressed and pleased if Jurgens can wrap this story up next issue or at least by #5. It does not need to go to #6.
And the UN guy is uber-annoying and not at all interesting. Better characters have played that role before. I'm not looking for characters to be killed but if there was ever a candidate to kick off a murder mystery, I'm just saying... Posted by superboymddjr on :
Godiva a FRAUD?!? arrgghhh!!!! how?!!??
Posted by Dave Hackett on :
Justice Leage Dark #3 was decent but a little slow. I'm enjoying the character focus, and glad to see Shade again (his parts were dead on), but by issue three I'm waiting for the plot to move a little faster. So far Enchantress seems like a distraction more than a threat. I'm just not getting the sense of urgency I think this plot requires.
Posted by Invisible Brainiac on :
re JLI 3,
Loved the pairings as well. Found all four pairs to have wonderful interactions.
The blossoming Vixen-Fire friendship is good and refreshing.
August General comforting a Godiva who realized she's in over her head is VERY good, and just makes me more interested to read more about Godiva. (PS Godiva not being trained - is she a government-mandated figurehead? interesting)
Rocket Red + Ice make a good friendship pair and I for one would love to see more male-female friendships.
Batman and Booster make an excellent team. I love how Bats is actually encouraging and not a jerk at all. Plus, agree with Cobie above that it's nice to see Booster isn't the glory hound anymore.
Guy acting alone is so him, but I'm glad he's not being overly douchy. This Guy is written just right.
Posted by Pov on :
LOVING Dark, especially the moody artwork. One of my favorite New52 titles. Not being really familiar with several of these characters-- Mindwarp, Shade, June Moon-- I'm enjoying the pacing here...
JLI#3 was fun for the reasons IB mentions... Bea/Mari was a nice scene, and I've been loving the Batman/Booster dynamic since the most recent Booster series. Glad to see it carrying over here.
Posted by Dave Hackett on :
Justice League #4 - Some fun bits, but mostly unimaginative. I hate seeing Darkseid reduced to a "punch 'em up" villain. There should be more going on here than just a build up to a big fight. I also think that over-the-top Aquaman is a bit more of a joke than supposedly "lame" Aquaman. I guess Johns just doesn't click with me anymore.
Posted by Dave Hackett on :
Justice League #5 - I promised I'd go to the end of the first arc, but this is a very trying comic. I thought this issue Johns would have a chance to redeem himself writing Darkseid. Wow, was I wrong. What a step down from the awesome job Morrison did in Final Crisis and miles away from Kirby. Darkseid as a silent punch machine. Couldn't they have used Doomsday instead?
Posted by Dave Hackett on :
Justice League Dark #5 is pretty anti-climatic. I've been enjoying the character moments here, but the plot's had no sense of urgency or impact (Despite the tried and true "World's going crazy" snippets that harken back to early Swamp Thing and Sandman). Then it just ends with Constantine casting a spell and Mind Warp doing ... something, and that's all she wrote. I guess it's fitting for 5 issues of non-buildup to have a non-climax, but it didn't make for a satisfying comic. The aftermath with Xanadu failing to unite the team read equally lame, and Milligan (who I normally love), seemed to be forcing the reactions a bit.
Posted by Dev - Em on :
I am becoming more happy with my decision to not get the new Justice League...not just from what you have said Dave, but from yours and other reviews I have seen (even the positive ones) make me very glad I skipped it.
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
I haven't been buying Justice League, and even with this "Curse of Shazam" back-up coming soon I still won't. I am really getting tired of how Geoff Johns "revitalizes" characters.
Posted by Jerry on :
I thoroughly enjoyed the first arc and finale of Justice League Dark. Janin's art and the coloring complimented one another perfectly - setting the mood for a supernatural series. Each member was used well and got a fair amount of screen time. Everyone seemed to be in character. I didn't find Xanadu's failure to unite the team lame at all. It seems totally in character for these men and women. They are suspicious of her motives and not big joiners to begin with -- maybe with the exception of Zatanna. She would probably be more comfortable with the League proper than this group. Now Xanadu must continue her efforts to bring a skeptical team together. It's reminiscent of the role that Raven took in the early Wolfman/Perez Teen Titans.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
I haven't been reading JLI, but JLA and JLD for me suffer from the same kind of storytelling flaw that's very common these days - tons of setup, no middle and a resolution that comes way too quickly, making it anti-climactic. It remains to be seen if JLA falls into this category, but considering how many issues are left in this arc and Johns's history, it seems that's the way it's going.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
Wow-- the solicit for JUSTICE LEAGUE DARK after the change in creative team has me excited!
Black Orchid! In a variation of her classic, couldn't really be improved costume! I only hope they keep the petal-wings and don't add *too* much detailing to her body-suit. I know they can't resist adding some.
I'm really looking forward to seeing the direction taken with this character. Will she be the mysterious super-strong flying mistress of disguise? Or the plant-human hybrid with mystical overtones? Some combination of the two?
I wouldn't mind the purple 'floaty' hair when she takes off her headgear. I do hope she retains that disguise talent, though. I'd like it even better if that weren't a super-power, but a cultivated skill involving make-up, research and acting.
How would that play in a 'dark' magical title? It'd be an interesting 'harmony' for Zatanna's stage magician persona... though I gotta confess, I haven't paid enough attention- does she still *have* that persona? I've bought every issue, and read all but the last and I dont' remember.
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
I sort of really hope they don't throw away everything they established in the Vertigo book. Especially since the third Black Orchid was a part of the DCU.
There is the chance that it's still the third Orchid, Suzy, and she's using her glamour abilities to put on the appearance of the first Orchid.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
I'm disappointed we won't get more Milligan, especially with him writing Constantine and Shade in the same book! Unfortunately, this book went from "sure buy" to "on the fence."
Posted by Dave Hackett on :
Justice League Dark #6 - this was... odd. After the "coming together" arc ended last issue with the group agreeing they couldn't work together and didn't want to, this issue was essentially a "whoops, I guess we do need to work together", but without any real motivation behind it, or at least nothing that couldn't have been covered last issue (or really, just replace the entire first arc with this issue and you get the same result). I'm beginning to wonder of Milligan asked to be removed from the title, because as great some individual moments are, the overall narrative seems really lackadaisical, and I don't get the feeling he's into it.
Posted by Jerry on :
Justice League #6 - The first story arc is complete. The Justice League has a shiny new origin story for the post Flashpoint DC universe. It worked for me. The final battle with Darkseid may have been a bit anticlimactic, but that just means there will be a high octane rematch at some point. Each of the founding seven members got some good screen time. They all showed some personality, and they came together for a convincing threat. Jim Lee's work was solid throughout. It's a good foundation.
I enjoyed the back up story as well. The mysterious woman from the first issues of the new 52 has a name, a purpose, and a connection to the Phantom Stranger. Let's see where this goes.
Posted by Catonyx on :
I am also thoroughly enjoying this particular run of the JL. The heroes feel different, but yet the same somehow. Geoff Johns has done a great job in keeping this new version fresh for me.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
I liked the little nod to Starro and the first Justice League's debut mission.
I thought the 'we're not a team' stuff felt a little forced and silly, but on the whole, I liked the issue.
Pandora and Phantom Stranger were more interesting. Apparently, she's the Pandora of myth and legend- but what that means in the DC multiverse remains to be seen.
She looked too much like Zealot- though it might be interesting if she was one of Zealot's people.
Posted by Dave Hackett on :
I didn't dig the whole Matrix-style action bit with the Stranger and Pandora. I know he's been active in earlier incarnations, but it seemed silly to have him suddenly lunge at her like that (then get his ass handed to him).
It also only took Johns 7 pages to turn Pandora into a bit of a Mary Sue. Impressive.
Posted by Anita Cocktail on :
Lightweight but enjoyable first arc. The way the whole thing was written in a sort of shorthand, leads me to believe that this nu-continuity is temporary, and that DC'll be returning to the classic continuity with the next major crossover event. Morrison's Multiverse perhaps?
Posted by Future on :
I'm in agreement with Dave Hackett. I was intrigued about Pandora but after the back-up? Not so much. It's hard to feel "woe is her" without the reason being given. I didn't really need more questions about her than answers and her attitude is unlikable for me. Hopefully her upcoming involvement with the Justice League will be a one time thing and not permanent.
Overall, the first arc was good as others said. Not great, but good. I do kind of wish it had been a separate piece or J'onn had been involved somehow. Why not? If we're going to time jump anyway then it's not like he'd still have to be on the team after the founding.
Posted by Set on :
So is Pandora the new Pariah? As I recall, he mostly appeared to whine about how awful everything was during Crisis on Infinite Earths...
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
So there are "three sinners?" my first thought was that Pandora is ... Pandora, Stranger is ... Cain? And the "third sinner" is Lucifer, but he's hiding ....
but who knows?
This first arc for Justice League was so utterly ... hollow. There's no story - just clever exchanges between characters and a big fight to get the characters together. Johns is an idea guy, but he can't craft a real plot to save his life.
Posted by Dave Hackett on :
quote:Originally posted by DrakeB3004: So there are "three sinners?" my first thought was that Pandora is ... Pandora, Stranger is ... Cain? And the "third sinner" is Lucifer, but he's hiding ....
Most hints seem to point to Shazam being the third.
DC has a user named "Pandora" who showed up on their dying boards after registration closed and dropped a bunch of cryptic ranting, that included a lot of lightning references around the third sinner.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
So all in all, I thought the first arc was pretty damn underwhelming. It didn't take long to become series of half moments and cliches, with no substance. The plot was basically the same plot I would write for my own stories when I was seven years old. Except with added dickhead comments by Hal.
Compared to Morrison's opening arc on JLA in the late 90's? It was garbage. Now *that* was an opening JLA arc.
And the back-up? Meh. I can barely remember it and I just read it. Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
So, I guess you didn't like the Shazam revamp?
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Oh, I meant the Pandora one. Haven't gotten to the Shazam stuff yet.
Posted by Jerry on :
What did you think of the Shazam story, Sarcasm Kid? I'm torn. Frank did a nice job with the art and I like that they updated the whole concept of an orphan/kid in foster care. Billy's attitude was kind of negative and Sivana was too menacing. It had a darker feel than I had hoped.
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
I was not able to read the entire thing... but I will say this.
Dr. Sivana should not be hot.
And, I don't think I'm going to agree with this characterization of Billy Batson.
I recall in Underworld Unleashed that Neron's target had always been Captain Marvel, because he was the purest of all the DC heroes. And, that's understandable, because he was a child. Not that I'm saying Billy was instantly perfect. In the Power of Shazam graphic novel, Billy didn't exactly adjust to his new powers with grace.
But out of all the heroes Captain Marvel was consistently seen as a paragon of hope and virtue, even moreso than Superman, but he was a boy given the power of Gods and trusted to use them wisely. I can think of how his appearance in Justice League Unlimited demonstrated this perfectly.
Now I think of all the ways DC utterly dismantled the Marvel Family. After turning Billy into the wizard and Freddie having to earn his place as "Shazam", Mary fell prey to Eclipso and turned towards the dark side. Literally. I'm sure we all remember shaved dominatrix Psycho-Barbie from Final Crisis. Mary was pretty much left to fend for herself since Freddie was off doing his thing and Billy was stuck in the Rock of Eternity.
Then after Final Crisis, Black Adam and Isis went up against Billy and usurped his place in the Rock of Eternity, leaving him powerless. Then Mary, still in her Dark Barbie role, corrupted him. Then the Wizard Shazam was brought back, and acting like a jerk completely blamed Billy and Mary for failing to adhere to the standards he set and completely stripped away their powers. Mary was still quite bitter about this, and Lady Blaze actually tried to tempt her. How many times does this make it Mary has been tempted?
Okay, I'm rambling, so to sum it up, the last we saw of the Marvel Family before Flashpoint had them all powerless and miserable. And Osiris was going to agree to help Dr. Sivana kill them so Black Adam could be brought back. (Not going into what happened with the Black Marvels)
Flashpoint we saw Captain Thunder.
And now, post-Flashpoint, we only have one Marvel Family member. Billy Batson is considered a bad influence. He's a teenager. And now he's going to become "Shazam". Not Captain Marvel. Shazam. He's got a mean and edgy look to him. And from what I've heard, Mary and Freddie won't be the same.
If after all the dark and moody hoopla the Marvel Family endured thanks to Winnick, Johns, and Wallace just acted as a complete and utter turn-off, why would I ever think to support Geoff Johns decision to make the Marvel Family "modern"? I've already become wary of how Geoff Johns utterly takes control of pre-existing characters and just completely rewrites their backstory so that they pretty much become his. The only reason I'm buying Aquaman is because Joe Prado works on it.
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
The bottom line: I've been coming off as if I want everything light and fluffy. I don't. God knows my "Night of the Gargoyle" idea is anything but.
Dark works for some comics, like Animal Man and Doom Patrol. Dark doesn't work for the Marvel Family. It's like pouring butterscotch on a block of american cheddar.
Posted by Jerry on :
Yeah. I don't think Johns is right for the Marvel Family.
Posted by Fanfic Lady on :
quote:Originally posted by Sarcasm Kid: The bottom line: I've been coming off as if I want everything light and fluffy. I don't. God knows my "Night of the Gargoyle" idea is anything but.
Dark works for some comics, like Animal Man and Doom Patrol. Dark doesn't work for the Marvel Family. It's like pouring butterscotch on a block of american cheddar.
Amen to that. Posted by Spellbinder on :
I liked the reboot of the Justice League with the exception of adding Cyborg. To me the founders should be DCs iconic characters. To me, that just isn't Cyborg.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I'm curious about reactions to JLI #7. Wow, that got pretty dark pretty fast. Not really sure I'm willing to stick around if this is the way it's going to be.
A death I really dislike, and almost all the women taken off the playing field (appearing to taking them off the team?). The issue felt like the series took a turn towards lamesville.
Posted by Spellbinder on :
Goodness knows when I'll be picking up my comics. Can someone spoil me as to what Cobie is referring to?
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
The Shazam back-up made me a little sick, honestly. Every decision seemed to be one that made me shake my head. A Luthor clone as Dr. Sivana? No. Surly Billy Batson? More representative of how current media portrays teenager, maybe. But also more boring. Then again, perhaps all isn't as it seems.
It isn't that the story as it is is bad. Only when tryng to reconcile it with what went before. Which is exactly my experience with much of the rest of the new DCU.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by Spellbinder: Goodness knows when I'll be picking up my comics. Can someone spoil me as to what Cobie is referring to?
Click Here For A SpoilerJLI is the victim of the bombing, which also kills all the supporting cast Jurgens introduced in 1-6.
Rocket Red dies, which I found extremely annoying.
Fire is in a coma. Ice & Vixen are basically rendered helpless and docile. It was like all the females were quickly taken off the table other than Godiva who has thus far proven to be the least effective of the bunch.
The whole thing felt very weak to me. Knowing you, I suspect you'd also hate it. Posted by Spellbinder on :
Oh! You were talking about JLI! I'm afraid I already dropped that one. Just wasn't feeling it.
Posted by Invisible Brainiac on :
quote:Originally posted by Fanfic Lady:
quote: Dark works for some comics, like Animal Man and Doom Patrol. Dark doesn't work for the Marvel Family. It's like pouring butterscotch on a block of american cheddar.
Amen to that.
Double Amen. Why do they have to change everything?
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid:
quote:Originally posted by Spellbinder: Goodness knows when I'll be picking up my comics. Can someone spoil me as to what Cobie is referring to?
Click Here For A SpoilerJLI is the victim of the bombing, which also kills all the supporting cast Jurgens introduced in 1-6.
Rocket Red dies, which I found extremely annoying.
Fire is in a coma. Ice & Vixen are basically rendered helpless and docile. It was like all the females were quickly taken off the table other than Godiva who has thus far proven to be the least effective of the bunch.
The whole thing felt very weak to me. Knowing you, I suspect you'd also hate it.
They also went and Click Here For A Spoilerintroduced a new Bat-related character - as if we didn't have enough! I'd much rather read about Rocket Red, Fire, Ice and Vixen. Posted by Dev - Em on :
Read the SHAZAM back up at the local B&N...wow. That sucked massively. It was actually worse than I expected. Which is really saying something.
Posted by Raging Bull on :
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: A Luthor clone as Dr. Sivana? No.
I get that they wanted to keep Dr. Sivana as a bald, bespectacled villain while being substantially different from his previous incarnation, but surely there are ways to do that without having him look just like a buff Lex Luthor. Or maybe it was just the art?
Anyway, I'm a big fan of the Marvel Family, and was really looking forward to this story. I was a bit disappointed, but I guess overall I was just relieved that the treatment was substantially better than what they did with the Marvels in Flashpoint.
Posted by Lard Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Raging Bull: Anyway, I'm a big fan of the Marvel Family, and was really looking forward to this story. I was a bit disappointed, but I guess overall I was just relieved that the treatment was substantially better than what they did with the Marvels in Flashpoint.
I didn't read the tie-in mini for that, but I thought that what I saw of the concept in the main FP series actually seemed pretty good! Then again, I've never been a huge fan of the Marvel Family.
Anyhoo, this is kinda pointless for me because I've dropped JL from my pull.
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
I bought Justice League #8. For one reason. And ONLY one reason.
Joe Prado worked on the interiors.
I don't care at all about Geoff Johns and what he's doing. If the money is going to Joe's career, then fine. I just wish it could've been something else this week.
Click Here For A SpoilerIn the Shazam back-up, Billy Batson made a little girl cry. Billy Batson. Made someone cry. Posted by MLLASH's back on :
Read JL 3-9 today. That Jim Lee art sure is purdy.
Johns' story, however, did not really click well for me until Jim Lee's hiatus issues... I really started ENJOYING this book entirely rather than just enjoy looking at it with issue 7. 7-9 rocked pretty mighty, and have helped make Steve Trevor someone I care about fo the first time since the 1970s!
The SHAZAM backup... I am thoroughly enjoying it!
Sarc, Billy DID make someone cry, but he soon regrets it.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
Here's a preview of the upcoming JUSTICE LEAGUE DARK issue with the new members.
I'm pretty excited: BLACK ORCHID's depicted using some sort of disguise tech or power to infiltrate a group connected to Felix Faust (who's definitely seen better days, at least looks-wise).
In the article, Lemire says that she's driving John Constantine crazy by not divulging her origin/identity.
Color me pleased. The one nitpick- her 'wings' appear to be gone (boo!).
Posted by Jerry on :
RE: Justice League Dark #9
I've been a fan of this book from the first issue. With the addition of Jeff Lemire it just got a hell of lot better. I'm a big Milligan fan, but Lemire is just red hot right now. Like this month's Savage Hawkman, JLD benefitted from some added clarity.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by Jerry: RE: Justice League Dark #9
I've been a fan of this book from the first issue. With the addition of Jeff Lemire it just got a hell of lot better. I'm a big Milligan fan, but Lemire is just red hot right now. Like this month's Savage Hawkman, JLD benefitted from some added clarity.
Another big agreement with Jerry from me on JLDark. Lemire has stepped in and the series is suddenly making good on what we were promised. Smart plot, good characterization, quirky as hell and lots of places to go from here.
Constantine shines as written by Lemire. Zatanna 'feels' like herself finally. I'm loving the intros of Dr. Mist and especially Black Orchid. Steve Trevor continues his role as most interesting person in the DCnU, and is used to great effect here.
Another issue like this and it'll confirm for me it's the best Justice League series.
Posted by Dave Hackett on :
Just caught up on the last three issues of JL:D, plus the Vampire crossovers. With Milligan's (and Shade's) departure, I think I'm done as well. Issue #9 didn't do it for me, as much as I like Black Orchid, this just came across as competent, but not engaging.
Posted by lowercase mllash on :
I read JL 10-11 last night; the revelations about Cyborg AND Steve Trevor totally threw me and were shocking. I kind-of guessed the Steve Trevor twist but not until about 30 seconds before I actually saw it.
And the DCnU SHAZAM continues to work well for me.
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
In regards to Black Orchid, last week in Teen Titans it hit me that Solstice's current appearance looks remarkably like the second and third Orchids.
I wonder if maybe there was a reason why this Orchid looks like the first.
Posted by Jerry on :
I'm enjoying Justice League Dark more than ever. The introduction of Steve Trevor gives the book a connection to the Justice League proper. Faust is a great adversary for the team. The reintroduction of Timothy Hunter warms my heart. It has snappy dialogue and the art never disappoints. All that, and a traitor revealed...
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
I really do enjoy Lemire's writing and how he's been pulling so much from Vertigo.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Yea, the latest JLDark issues have been quite good! Steve Trevor is really fantastic here, cementing himself as the top breakout star in the DCnU. But beyond that, the entire cast is great. Constantine, Deadman and Zatanna are great, and Dr. Mist and Black Orchid are getting nicely complex roles. I like what I'm seeing with Tim Hunter so far.
Meanwhile, the main JLA title is becoming more and more pedestrian, lacking in any substance. It's classic Johns in all the worst ways: snapshots and forced iconic moments rather than any real character or story. The Shazam back-up actually reads really well considering how low expectations are after the JLA story.
Posted by Power Boy on :
I ... almost ... started buying the JLA just for those Shazam back stories ...
but I said "NO, I SHALL WAIT FOR THE TPB!"
Posted by Lard Lad on :
So the big news is that Supes and Wonder Woman are now an item as of JL #12. Think there'll be a scene a la Catwoman #1 between the two of them?
Posted by Power Boy on :
no doubt. bwahahaha. I'm not sure if I'm being sarcastic given comics these days and DC's stunts!
Posted by Lard Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Lard Lad: So the big news is that Supes and Wonder Woman are now an item as of JL #12. Think there'll be a scene a la Catwoman #1 between the two of them?
quote:Originally posted by Power Boy: no doubt. bwahahaha. I'm not sure if I'm being sarcastic given comics these days and DC's stunts!
Maybe they'll heavily imply they did it doggie style? Nah, Diana would be on top, right? Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
We've seen them kiss like a million times over the decades. If they want to make this original, it's time for a lasso / rocketship fetish sequence.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by Lard Lad:
quote:Originally posted by Lard Lad: So the big news is that Supes and Wonder Woman are now an item as of JL #12. Think there'll be a scene a la Catwoman #1 between the two of them?
quote:Originally posted by Power Boy: no doubt. bwahahaha. I'm not sure if I'm being sarcastic given comics these days and DC's stunts!
Maybe they'll heavily imply they did it doggie style? Nah, Diana would be on top, right?
"krypto taught me this!"
Posted by Lard Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: We've seen them kiss like a million times over the decades. If they want to make this original, it's time for a lasso / rocketship fetish sequence.
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid:
quote:Originally posted by Lard Lad:
quote:Originally posted by Lard Lad: So the big news is that Supes and Wonder Woman are now an item as of JL #12. Think there'll be a scene a la Catwoman #1 between the two of them?
quote:Originally posted by Power Boy: no doubt. bwahahaha. I'm not sure if I'm being sarcastic given comics these days and DC's stunts!
Maybe they'll heavily imply they did it doggie style? Nah, Diana would be on top, right?
"krypto taught me this!"
Point being......if Batman and Catwoman can have a nasty, fairly explicit sex scene then so, by damn, should Supes and WW! Posted by Lard Lad on :
So.....in all seriousness, what do you guys think about Superman/Wonder Woman being a matter of actual fact starting in #12?
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
For me it's kinda meh. They allude to this every few years.
I do realize that this time it'll actually be a real relationship. But I guess...I don't really know this Supes and WW. So it doesn't really mean all that much to me. It just makes the DCnU more and more like an Elseworlds.
Posted by Lard Lad on :
Yeah, and it certainly feels like a stunt. On the plus side, though, it's not a negative stunt necessarily...like Marvel's constant temporary death stunts. (Pretty sure AvX is gonna end with yet another one. This time, the early buzz is that it'll be Professor X. *groan*)
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Actually, it'll probably be Cyclops. Regardless, it'll be terrible.
But yeah, it feels like a stunt. Cheap.
Posted by Jerry on :
I'm still totally on board with both Justice League and Justice League Dark.
I haven't been disappointed yet by the artwork in Justice League Dark, and issue #12 was no exception. The background information on Dr. Mist this issue was helpful. I love the way the House of Mystery is being used. Black Orchid's developing personality is a fun one.
Much has been made of the Superman and Wonder Woman kiss in Justice League #12. This isn't new territory, but the modern PR machines do wonders at generating buzz over comic book storylines similar to what we fans have seen before. I liked the way it was handled here. Johns took the time to give Diana room to express her feelings to both Steve and Superman. It all felt pretty natural to me. We continue to get more insight into Wonder Woman's background in Justice League than we do her own book. The previews for 2013 certainly have my attention!
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
One thing that bothers me: Wonder Woman was *18* when she came to man's world and is clearly kinda naive about relationships. I know she's "Wonder Woman" and all, but if Trevor's old enough to be a colonel, then that feels a bit skeezy to me.
Posted by Invisible Brainiac on :
Although her crack at Hal in issue 11 certainly makes it seem she's not that naive!
Click Here For A Spoiler
WW and Hal beating each other up.
Hal: You've been dying for this, haven't you?"
WW: This isn't giving me any pleasure. But I'm sure you've heard that before."
Oooooooooooooooooh!
Posted by Invisible Brainiac on :
So, recent news on another JLA about to be formed. All I can say is - that's an... interesting lineup.
quote:Originally posted by Jerry: I haven't been disappointed yet by the artwork in Justice League Dark, and issue #12 was no exception. The background information on Dr. Mist this issue was helpful.
Doctor Mist! Formerly of the Global Guardians? I might have to pick this up, as he's one of my forgotten favorites!
Posted by Jerry on :
Kinda, sorta. There is no mention of the Global Guardians. He's a government operative working with Steve Trevor's team. If he's an old favorite, you may not like the developments of the past few issues.
Click Here For A SpoilerDr. Mist becomes a traitor and reveals that he is working with Faust. The background information gives a compelling reason for his betrayal of the team.
[ September 13, 2012, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: Jerry ]
Posted by Set on :
Ew. Pass on the new Dr. Mist, then.
The new JLA sub-chapter looks odd. Hawkman, Green Arrow, Catwoman, Katana and Steve-Trevor-with-guns are very 'street-level,' Vibe is just, ugh, Vibe (200 quatloo says he's killed off in an 'ironic' way for the lulz), and the Martian Manhunter, Green Lantern-flavor-of-the-month and Geoff-John's-imaginary-girlfriend-Stargirl seem like they would belong on another team entirely, power-wise.
Catwoman seems an odd fit, of all the possible Bat-adjacent folk that could show up on a JLA team, and the only part of that that intrigues me is that she's meeting up with Katana, and making a Birds of Prey connection, since she and the Birds of Prey seem like they'd make an interesting fit (as allies, rivals and / or foes, depending on the situation).
It almost feels like an Avengers the Movie line-up. Some super heavy hitters (Thor, Iron Man, Hulk / Manhunter, Green Lantern), Malcolm in the Middle (Captain America / Vibe, Stargirl) and some SHIELD agents with guns or whatever (Black Widow, Hawkeye / Katana, Catwoman, Trevor, Green Arrow, Hawkman).
Posted by Power Boy on :
Yeah, he's not our Dr. Mist
Click Here For A SpoilerHe's a flunky of Faust no less.
and that JLA looks like Dark Avengers ... or something ...
edgy edgy edgy ... its been done.
<------ so bitter.
[ September 13, 2012, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: Power Boy ]
Posted by Dev - Em on :
Uh, set...Stargirl was patterned after Geoffs sister who passed away at a rather young age:
"On July 17, 1996, Courtney Johns was aboard the ill-fated TWA Flight 800. Three years later, her brother, Geoff would immortalize her as Courtney Whitmore, the new Star Spangled Kid."
That's why he has such an affinity for the character.
Posted by Jerry on :
Regarding Dr. Mist:
Click Here For A SpoilerHe is presented as being more powerful than I recall seeing him presnted before. His betrayal is explained well and quickly - say as opposed to Comet Queen's betrayal in recent Legion issues. Mist is given a back story in which the reason that he first pursued mystic powers was in order revive his dead love. The current storyline has several characters and groups competing to gain access to the Books of Magic. Mists' motivation is to use one of the books to revive his lost love. Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
Wow Dev - I never knew that. Almost makes me cry. That's really sweet. I liked Star Girl in JSA and have to imagine that Johns will continue to characterize her that way considering... (the fact that her costume is the same indicates as much)
Can't say much for Vibe though. We've seen two images of him so far and he's on his knees both times in a less than heroic way. If Johns wanted to impress us with him, that's two strikes...(maybe instead of break-dancing, he'll krunk)
I'm not in any way excited about JLoA. The main JL title has been a bit of a snoozefest, to be honest. It reminds me of the previous relaunch with Meltzer and Benes - a lot of hype without much substance.
Posted by Invisible Brainiac on :
While I love Stargirl, I do wish they'd had her join the JLI instead of canceling that book and possibly replacing it with this lineup.
This seems more like Justice League Black Ops to me, and Stargirl sure seems out of place!
Hmm... maybe DC's going the Avengers route and is planning to have multiple JL teams sprout up too.
Posted by Bicycle Repair Man on :
quote:Originally posted by Invisible Brainiac: So, recent news on another JLA about to be formed. All I can say is - that's an... interesting lineup.
Has anyone else looked closely at the image that accompanies this article?
That is not the current United States flag ... at least, not on our Earth. (It's got the wrong star-pattern: it looks like the pre-Alaska-and-Hawaii 48-star flag)
So, is this:
A) A sign of some previously-unrevealed difference in the DCnU Earth which will be explored in the new series, or
B) A sign of a lazy artist and an incompetent editor?
Place yer bets ...
Posted by Jerry on :
I think it's just a case of:
c) artistic license
Posted by Jerry on :
Whoa! Tony Daniel delivered some gorgeous artwork for this week's Justice League #13. One of the most beautifully rendered battles I ever recall seeing between Wonder Woman and the Cheetah. And, I'm pretty sure I haven't missed a WW/Cheetah battle in over 30 years. This was a very personal issue that focused on the relationships and growing friendships of the members. Barry's support of Vic hit all the right notes.
My biggest complaint: Skinny Amanda Waller. Yuck. If she's going to be a regular in this book she needs to be plump!!
[ October 17, 2012, 07:58 PM: Message edited by: Jerry ]
Posted by Jay Kay on :
quote:Originally posted by Jerry: Whoa! Tony Daniel delivered some gorgeous artwork for this week's Justice League #13. One of the most beautifully rendered battles I ever recall seeing between Wonder Woman and the Cheetah. And, I'm pretty sure I haven't missed a WW/Cheetah battle in over 30 years. This was a very personal issue that focused on the relationships and growing friendships of the members. Barry's support of Vic hit all the right notes.
My biggest complaint: Skinny Amanda Waller. Yuck. If she's going to be a regular in this book she needs to be plump!!
Agreed, Tony KILLED this issue. Really makes me look forward to him getting on Action after the Morrison team leaves. I enjoyed the scenes with Flash and Cyborg and the team at the Watchtower telling Diana that they want to help her: the last six (regular) issues of the book were about the idea that to truly protect mankind, they have to become the image, these godly "Super Friends" that the regular public believes them to be, and this really starts them on that path.
As for Waller...yeah, I was annoying with that as well at first, but with the recent reveals that she was more of an active soldier, part of Team 7, I think it makes more sense that she's thinner in this take. She shouldn't be supermodel thin as some artists have made her to look like, but that's just an artist problem across all superhero comics, not just in this case.
Oh--and a little earlier, about the JLA line-up and the complaints on how different it is...I actually love the fact that we're not getting all the standard, safe choices. I mean, this is the "New 52," after all, what's the point if we don't get some new stories and ideas out of it? Why not have Catwoman team up with Martian Manhunter, Hawkman and Stargirl? That's something we haven't seen before, that's GREAT.
Posted by Jerry on :
A few New 52 annuals were released this week. The Justice League Dark annual took advantage of the extra pages to continue the story from the ongoing, and kick it up to epic level. For those not paying attention, the new 52 has given a lot more detail to the past romance between Constanine and Zatanna. His former mentor and her former lover, Nick Necro is the big bad, and he makes a very compelling villain.
We get some fun guests as well. So the epic battle pits:
Constantine Black Orchid Deadman Frankenstein: Agent of Shade The House of Mystery Zatanna Madame Xanadu Timothy Hunter Andrew Bennett, and Amethyst
against:
Necro Felix Faust Dr. Mist Black Boris Blackbriar Thorn The House of Secrets; and an army of hooded goons.
The action takes place in Nanda Parbat. It's a battle for the ultimate control of the Books of Magic. Black Orchid plays a major role in the outcome. Just as we think destiny has been fulfilled and the danger is past, things take a bizarre twist for a cliffhanger ending.
Comic Book reading just doesn't get any more fun than this.
[ November 12, 2012, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: Jerry ]
Posted by Dave Hackett on :
I only skimmed the issue in the store and put it back, so I may be unfair in my assessment, but given the way the previous issue went this seems consistent. Though it did help crystalise my thoughts on why I'm not digging it. It's too much "Justice League", and not enough "Dark". I can expand my complaint to both Snyder and Lemire's work in the Dark line, it just feels empty to me. I know I keep unfairly harping on the Moore years, but really, that was the last time these characters integrated fully with the DCU and comparisons are inevitable. Moore's stories were about something, maintained a horror atmosphere and still managed to deal fairly with the DCU is a unique and cool way. The current batch of books are all surface plot and nothing else (with the exception of some of Animal Man's family dynamic stuff). Sure Swamp Thing took over Gotham and fought Batman, but the story was about pride, anger, and claiming power in oneself. Rotworld is so far about Swampy and Buddy fighting Rotworld and that's it.
I was excited to see the universes roll into each other once again, but I thought that would serve to bring a unique and mature perspective to a corner of the DCU. Instead it's taken these characters and treated them like any other superhero fare.
Posted by Jay Kay on :
I disagree--I think the deeper plot of Swamp Thing is the love story between Alec Holland and Abigail Arcane, and Animal Man is all about a man who is desperate to protect his family, his daughter especially, from the seemingly unstoppable evil that wants to destroy them.
JLD is definitely a little more surface, more of a mystic superhero action story, but I don't see that as a bad thing, especially since there is a lot of interesting character stuff that creates the action, as well as some of the twists/reveals they made in the Annual.
I will say this about JLD, though--Lemire better start making Zatanna useful soon, or I'm gonna be PISSED. Seriously, I don't think she's actually landed a single effective blow this ENTIRE arc.
Posted by Power Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by Invisible Brainiac: This seems more like Justice League Black Ops to me, and Stargirl sure seems out of place!
"GUNS DEATH AMMO NINJAS DECAPITATION" $3.99 every month.
Posted by Power Boy on :
JL Dark Annual was fun. Like a well done action comic.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
Frankenstein, Amethyst and Black Orchid explore the House of Mystery.
That's my kind of tagline. Even if I didn't buy JLD, I would if I saw that description.
A fun issue, with some suprises (appropriately). I'm glad Frankie's staying on, because he's a great fit. Deadman's appearance doesn't make sense to me, though there might be some residual magic thing, or an effect of proximity to the House of Mystery that makes him being visible to everyone more beliveable.
We get one of those 'Booster Gold Blackboard' images here, though reliable can it be in a House of Mystery? One with an established sense of humor? Red herring, anyone?
I'm a bit disappointed in Black Orchid. I really like how she was described as maintaining an aura of mystery and being playful with it before she 'joined'. Here, she reads like a pretty stereotypical tough girl, a private in the military, no less. Phantom-Stranger-syndrome striking again?
Posted by Jay Kay on :
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: We get one of those 'Booster Gold Blackboard' images here, though reliable can it be in a House of Mystery? One with an established sense of humor? Red herring, anyone?
Well, remember that John's taken up residence there for a while. That's John's board, not the House's--and considering how they've played him in other Dark books, like in Animal Man and Sword of Sorcery, there's no doubt in my mind that he's working on figuring things out.
One thing I noticed there on that board that was really new--in the page talking about Shazam and the Wizards, he mentions "The Apache," and a "new kid" gaining the powers at a Arizonan reservation. First I was like, "Sweet! Home state kid!" Then I thought--what if this is the New 52 version of Apache Chief from Super-Friends?
Posted by Invisible Brainiac on :
Not sure if this has been discussed yet, but apparently Vibe is not only getting a new lease on life... but an ongoing as well!
I do have to say I'm both happy and disappointed regarding Black Orchid.
Click Here For A SpoilerIt's none of the pre-existing Orchids, but someone named Alba Garcia. However, this leaves as much chance that the other Orchids may still exist in the DCnU. Posted by Jay Kay on :
quote:Originally posted by Invisible Brainiac: Not sure if this has been discussed yet, but apparently Vibe is not only getting a new lease on life... but an ongoing as well!
You just know that at least part of the reasoning for Vibe being in the JLA/his own on-going is Johns thinking, "Okay, I've now done a super-successful Aquaman book and now more people think he's cool than ever before. Now...it's time for a bigger challenge..."
Posted by Invisible Brainiac on :
Wonder if part of it is to diversify the DCU too? New characters like the new Ray and the new Green Lantern, plus reimagined ones like Jaime Reyes, Katana, Cyborg...
Posted by Lard Lad on :
I can't imagine why DC'd do a frickin' Vibe series before they'd attempt a Cyborg ongoing. Posted by Faraway Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Lard Lad: I can't imagine why DC'd do a frickin' Vibe series before they'd attempt a Cyborg ongoing.
Maybe because there is an adult audience, with ready spending money, who grew up as kids with this character? DC wants the money after all.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
I dunno. I'm not sure that even among 80s kids there's a whole lot of demand for a Vibe series. And even on that theory, one would still think Cyborg would be much more in demand for a character with his own series. Vibe was only in the Justice League for, what, about 2-3 years? Whereas Cyborg was a member of the much popular Titans, plus he was featured on Super Friends. So the nostalgia seems to favor him over Vibe.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
The only way I'll try a Vibe series is if four seperate people tell me its superior to To Kill a Mockingbird or Great Gatsby.
I'd check out a Cyborg series thought. That one only has to beat Grapes of Wrath.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
^^Best post of the week.
Posted by Lard Lad on :
Posted by Jay Kay on :
quote:Originally posted by Lard Lad: I can't imagine why DC'd do a frickin' Vibe series before they'd attempt a Cyborg ongoing.
I guess in Johns' mind, the Justice League series is where a lot of his development's going to be. It also probably helps to have his own character on the group that isn't dependent on another title. Plus, from what I've heard, Cyborg will take on a bigger role during the Throne of Atlantis cross-over, and the solicit for #18 that came out today says it's going to be a Cyborg-focused issue.
Posted by Blacula on :
If I was still buying DC Comics I'd totally be buying at least the first few issues of this Vibe series.
I love the idea of taking a long-unused and much-derided old character and trying to turn him into a viable, solo-title-carrying success.
Plus, Vibe might have been a bit ill-conceived and very much of his era but he was also likeable, had pretty unique powers and there was a lot of potential for growth there. There are a lot worse characters in the DCU than Vibe IMO. Some of whom have also had their own series'.
My only reservation about this book is that it is latter-career, talent-slump Geoff Johns writing it so it will undoubtedly have his stock story points - deceased parent tragedy, graphic violence, some mysterious secret/threat from his past/origin returning as a villain today, etc.
[ December 07, 2012, 11:33 PM: Message edited by: Blacula ]
Posted by Set on :
quote:Originally posted by Blacula: My only reservation about this book is that it is latter-career, talent-slump Geoff Johns writing it so it will undoubtedly have his stock story points - deceased parent tragedy, graphic violence, some mysterious secret/threat from his past/origin returning as a villain today, etc.
If it's anything like Geoff's launch on Aquaman, where it seemed like the entire point of the book was to talk directly to the reader about how Aquaman wasn't a bad joke so directly that even fourth-wall-breaking She-Hulk would say, 'Dude, you're not Bruce Willis, stop talking to the audience...,' the first few issues of 'Vibe' will be all about what a stone cold badass he is and how dumb fans are for ever thinking that he was lame.
If Geoff wants to talk *at* the fans, instead of telling them a story, he should spend more time at conventions and less time writing comic books.
Posted by Power Boy on :
They changed his name from Paco to Cisco because PACO was silly.
w t f.
On a related note, I saw the Human Bomb comic at the store ... and thought "oh cool!" and then I said "nevermind it's DC. They'll f it up."
I didn't even flip through it.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
That was pretty much my reaction to the Human Bomb as well!
Posted by Jay Kay on :
Ray was alright and Phantom Lady had it's moments...but I dunno, something about the Freedom Fighters doesn't seem to grab me in general, so no Human Bomb for me either.
That said, it's funny that no one on Bleeding Cool or something has picked up on the New 52's take on Uncle Sam...
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
I much preferred the last incarnation of the FF - especially Human Bomb and Black Condor. I haven't picked up the new version because those series didn't interest me.
What's the deal with the New 52 Uncle Sam?? Where did he pop up?
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
What would really interest me is an "Earth-X" or "Earth-10" series, ala "Earth-2".
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Finally. Respect. And... Vixen? WHAT WHAT WHAT?!?! ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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Yet another reason for me to prefer CBR to Newsarama.![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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) title would've suited his talents better and possibly rocked our asses off!
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