This is it!!! Today is the day that Levitz makes his much awaited return as writer of our beloved "classic" team with issue #1.
It will be interesting to see if I feel as excited after reading it as I am just thinking about it in anticipation. I'm sure I won't be disappointed though.
Well, I'm off to camp out in front of my local comic shop.
I'll be back here with my thoughts on the reality of the first issue later.

DC's Source Blog has a preview.

http://dcu.blog.dccomics.com/2010/05/19/the-legion-of-super-heroes-returns/

I'm very excited to get this issue!

i'm thrilled! can't wait!!!

i just hope the usual nerds won't attack the book because of some possible anal continuity bulls**t. i already read on the net a lot of (aprioristic) complaints about this kind of stuff, which sounded two times unbelievable to me also because the book isn't out yet so what do you know?

i'm just happy the concept which made me fall in love with the book is back. i'm sure the stories will be fun, and that's all i care about

I grew to enjoy many elements of the Threeboot, particularly after Shooter got his hands on it, so, if the stories are halfway decent, I'll like it *despite* the 'possible anal continuity bullshit.' (Or, in this case, pretty much guaranteed anal continuity bullshit, since the new 'classic' team is already crazy inconsistent.)

I'll also take being called a nerd as a badge of pride, since I'm posting on a site devoted to fans of a comic book.

Because people have different opinions than you is not a reason to attack or demean them. It's hard to take your opinion seriously when you resort to such tactics.

As for the book, I've been looking forward to reading this for a long time. At the risk of sounding "anal" - I like how Paul even has the prison be in the Arctic just like LSH vol.2 #11. Plus, a nod to the reboot with the introduction of this Universe's Aven.

I was wondering where I'd seen the name Dr. Aven before. Wasn't he the dude from the Titans / Legion crossover with Universo and Brother Blood?

I do not remember the Titans/Legion crossover too well but was Aven not Saturn Girls mentor throughout the ReBoot?

whoa, there's really no need to be that bitter. i don't want to insult anybody, lest of all the lovely people on this board: of course people are entitled to have their own opinion, and i respect that. still, aprioristic opinions are just mere prejudice, so not so worthy of respect after all, and that's all i was talking about.

these last few weeks, i read all over the internet all sorts of complaints about the new legion book, mostly because of continuity stuff these people had just made up, which was just odd since as a matter of fact the book still had to come out.
the fact people have the right to think what they want doesn't mean they can use this freedom to throw sh*t towards something they can't possibly know, just because. that's really childish and silly and i can't take seriously the opinion of people who resort to such tactics.

good for you i wish i was that zen about that.
as a poster on a site devoted to fans of a comic book, i prefer being called a comic book fan.

Er...why did you attribute me to that quote?

I prefer to be called a comic book fan as well, thank you very much. I also don't like being characterized as bitter. You're basing a lot of characterizations and accusations on very little info yourself. You seem to be arguing against behavior that you, yourself are contributing.

I haven't read one complaint about this series. I have read complaints about the continuity that this series is being built upon. All of those complaints were based on the comics that were already published, so again I'm unsure of where these "aprioristic opinions" you speak of are coming from.

Just read the new LSH #1. Sans spoilers, I'll just say that while I may be of the camp that doesn't completely buy that this group is the exact same LSH that existed up til Levitz/Giffen's LSH 63, Levitz writing them smooths over most of that gripe. A lot happens in this first issue, and although I may not love all of it, it's a great start and I'm excited to be reading Levitz's LSH again...

Just finished reading this and I must say I was fairly pleased with the effort.

I particularly enjoyed Paul's comments on the Legion's convoluted history and how he's going to treat it.

Not sure yet whether this is a cozy, old, favorite shirt or a brand new, retro one but I did like the fit either way. Seemed comfortable to me.

I thought this was a very strong first issue. My only complaint is that although I generally liked the way Brainy was portrayed, he didn't seem especially heroic. But that's a minor point.

I may be a lone voice here, but to be honest, I didn't care much for this first issue. The biggest complaint that I have is regarding Earth Man. I just don't think that making a murderer and criminal into a hero is a good thing. I believe it sets a very low moral standard and I just can't buy into it. So...unless something happens within the next few issues to make me change my mind, I won't be buying this book.

I thought there was a perfectly logical explanation for why Earth-Man has to join the Legion. I was initially rather skeptical about this plot development, but I thought Paul set it up very well. There's a powerful xenophobic faction within Earthgov, they want Earth-Man to be a Legionnaire, and the Legion has to appease Earthgov because they want to remain on Earth. I'd have appreciated an explanation of why leaving Earth is not an option, but there are several obvious reasons, beginning with the fact that Earth was Superman's home.

Furthermore, I think it makes sense that the Legion should be trying to rehabilitate Earth-Man, given that he's the polar opposite of everything they stand for. If they can reform him, it will be a significant moral victory.

FINALLY!

So, they do indeed still have Graym and Garridan, and all this time the two have been with Garth's family on Winath, until Imra thought it'd be nice for the two to see Titan.

Was that so hard, Johns?! Two years for a single frickin thought box?!

I am extremely pleased with the story so far. What a terrific first issue!

It reminded me of the first issue of the Super-Villains arc that Paul and Keith did to start off the Baxter series.

And the art was mostly beautiful!

i enjoyed it for the most part...although my campaigning for bringing back Rond might have taken a blow, i did like how he was brought up

by mistake sorry!

from these last few posts, it seems to me like you read too much into my messages. i didn't say you are a bitter person - i don't know you! - , just that in my opinion you replied to me in a bitter way. am i not entitled to have an opinion? you yourself even said, and rightly so, that everyone should be free to have theirs, and that because of that i shouldn't have criticized them: now you seem to be arguing against behavior that you, yourself are contributing

i didn't follow the topics you're referring to, or at least i don't remember them, so i don't know about what has been said here about the continuity that this series is being built upon.
i was talking in general about complaints i read in other sites and message boards. i don't think it would be fair to name names since i guess the actual users i was referring to don't post here as well, but i have read several of them (wish i hadn't!).
anyway, for example, i remember a guy saying something like the new book was going to start with the wrong foot cause DC didn't already address if in the new continuity imra and garth had children or not. of course a comment like this one is based on the comics that were already published, but come on, it's also aprioristic.

man, really, i'm not trying to be rude here. just saying what i think. let's be cool.


btw, i read issue 1 and i enjoyed it. can't wait to see how the story goes on. didn't expect the surprise ending. the art was very good, i especially liked how the artist

I READ IT.

I've got a lot of stuff I could say but THIS is what I HAVE to get off my chest...

Not 1 panel of Tenz, and the 1 panel Lu and Chuck do appear in places them quite definitely at the LSH Academy.

Everything old is... old again. All the fun stuff done with those 3 in the years after Levitz left the first time might as well never have happened. All 3 of 'em are going to be swept under the LSH rug again, coming out once every anniversary issue for a group pic.

I almost wish The Bierbaums had never made Lu and Tenz so awesome... that the reboot had not continued Lu's upward climb... that the cartoon had never made all 3 of 'em so fun. I freakin' wish none of it had ever happened.

For most of the while I was reading it, I was thinking "a promising start." But then...

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">I knew there was going to be a Green Lantern, and I had no problem with that, because I know that comics are a business and that Green Lantern equals $$$$$$$. But to have EARTH MAN be the Green Lantern? That just feels so wrong. Levitz obviously wants to redeem that creep, but this is too much too soon.</span></span>

The Legionnaires' characterizations feel a bit "off" to me, especially Querl and Imra, but that's understandable considering that it's been more than 20 years since Levitz last wrote them.

As for...

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">...the destruction of Titan, even if it hadn't been spoiled by the internet, it was still telegraphed in a very clumsy fashion.</span></span>

I'm willing to be patient with Levitz. I'll go so far as to give him a FULL YEAR to get back in stride, something I rarely do.

And for what it's worth, I'm glad that Duplicate Damsel has long hair. I hated the short hair that most of her various incarnations have had over the past 20 plus years.

There will be a certain delicious irony if they do manage to at least partially redeem Earth-Man, since Superman made such a big deal about redeeming Superboy-Prime during Lo3W, only for that to fail.

From a certain standpoint, getting one or more of the 'Justice League of Earth' saddled up and on-board with a multicultural earth would take some of the steam out of the recent 'Earth as Nazi Germany, complete with shiny red armbands and goose-stepping racists' movement currently in vogue on Earth (although I would have much preferred Spider-Girl in that role!). With their icon of hate working alongside aliens, perhaps the movement will fall apart all the faster (or blow itself up trying to kill him for 'betraying their ideals'), and we can get back to stories about the future.

I actually kind of like who they chose for the ring. It won't mess with any established Legion characterization, so it's the best choice.

Of course, I get this from spoilers, since my state has two comic stores, owned by the same guy, who gets his comics by driving down to Diamond Distributors in Mass on Wednesday nights. I won't see it until he puts them up on the shelves sometime Thursday afternoon. I love 'Cow Hampshire,' but sometimes I wish the state was a little less rural!

Good point.

And I, too, would have preferred Spider-Girl.

During the brief period that I lived in New Hampshire, I used to go to the Funny Book Factory in Lebanon, and they always had new comic books on Wednesdays. Is that store not there anymore? Or is it one of the two that you're referring to?

I assume anyone reading this far has read #1, but just in case...

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">It was decent. a good first issue. The Earth Man stuff kinda made sense politically, but I wasn't wild about it. Nor the (yet again) GL presence (but we knew that as soon as the cover was promo'd).

Art-wise, I particularly like the renditions of Imra, and her doings on Titan. The colorist seemed a little overboard in some of the action scenes, to the detriment of the other art.

I like Brainy a bit disconnected from the others (just as we would be in a society of chimps), but not to the point of arrogant Threeboot Brainy. Levitz found a good level for him. Yes, it's different than prior Levitz Brainy, but it worked.

I'd still rather see the 70s/80s orange tower than *yet another* upside-down-rocket incarnation (yawn. as if every Legion since SW6 hasn't gone that route). But that was already done before the new book, so I'll forgive them.

The destruction of Titan was telegraphed, yes. Destroying planets seems to be a trope anymore, but it wasn't too shabby in the grand scheme of things.

Good to see Gigi. Now where's Shvaugn?
</span></span>

It beats having two annoying new characters on the team!

So, nothing I've read so far really convinces me that I need to run out and buy this.

Wait, I thought it was spelled Shvaughn.

Eh, I honestly was a bit disappointed in this. I'm still going to buy it since it's legion and it's not bad, but I think if I was a new reader this wouldn't draw me in. It certainly didn't have the energy that most of my Legion collection seems to have. Can't put my finger on it, but the book just seemed to lack the energy that most Legion stories have (and that's not because there wasn't stuff happening, there was, I just didn't care or something).

also, don't like the setup Johns left Levitz with. It just seemed to drag the story down, too much having to explain it rather than just tell the story. In the past it seemed bits about what Earthgov was doing and all that would be woven into the universe over time, now we have to be told it because it is soooo important to what is going on in the story.

Also, not feeling Earth Man at all, don't want to read about him at all so the panels with him really felt flat.

There was a couple other things, minor things that just made it feel like this book wasn't firing on all cylinders.

As for the art, it was ok. Hope it improves as I believe there is room for improvement, but it didn't detract from the story so that is something. can't really point to any deficiencies (although some of the Legionnaires had sever baby faces at one or two places) but the art doesn't grab me, yet.

So in the end I'm disappointed, I saved this issue for last in my reading pile so I could savor every second, and in the end it seemed a bit bland.

here's hoping things turn around quickly because I will buy a book out of loyalty for only so long, even a Legion book.

I rather enjoyed it. Not the best thing I've ever read...but a lot of good beats throughout. Liked that Jo had some lines.

Earth Man is annoying, but I've found other Legionnaires in the past annoying for different reasons as well...I'm willing to trust Paul until he abuses that privelige.

Good characterization with Imra this time around. Brainy...I like this new version of him. It would make soooo much sense for him to not make sense, as he's thinking about other things by the time the words hit his mouth...his speach should be a bit disjointed as it was here.

Glad that the Legion is back (or at least as close as we're gonna get.

I think people are jumping to conclusions about Earth-Man. Nowhere does it say he's going to be redeemed, or that the Legion is going to try. They have him forced upon them and just want to contain him and keep him under their thumb so he doesn't do more damage. He's still a villain, and now he's one with a GL ring.

Quite a mixed bag of reactions. I was pleasantly surprised with both story and art.

Minor quibbles:

Destroying a Legionnaire's planet seems to be the new "who will die on the super team's maiden voyage?"

Why would the Oan thingy choose Earthman? Aren't Green Lanterns chosen for their moral character? And wasn't the Green Lantern Corps an interstellar organization even more racially diverse than the LSH? Maybe this will be explained.

Cosmic Boy says "if we can make a public example that Earthers can work with offworlders it'll help make peace stick." Um. Sun Boy is sitting right next to him. So is Colossal Boy. And Invisible Kid's around here somewhere . . . And Bouncing Boy's right over there . . .

Brainy looks a little too maniacal in some panels.

I don't think this was an error - I think "Earther" is a term for a xenophobic Earth-firster - like a "Birther," maybe?

I too wondered about the look in Brainy's eye. I wonder if it means a return to insanity in the future?

http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/notes/matt-crider/legion-of-super-heroes-1-my-review/10150194722885188

Link to my review...

I actually loved it. For the first time in a long time, it felt like I was reading an "Original" Legion story with all the wonderful "Easter Eggs" that were scattered about.

Even the parts where Brainiac 5 seemed to be out of character felt like there was a story reason for it and not like a lazy writer not "getting" the characters.

Gigi!

I also liked how Paul actually read and carried on the Adventure Comics short stories.

Lash, based on that fact alone, I wouldn't worry too much about Chuck and Lu's roles in the series. I don't see why they can't be involved in the Academy and be active Legionnaires.

Yanno, I've *heard* of Lebanon, but that's way, way north of me, I think! (Just looked it up, not as north as I thought, more Vermont-wards...) The only two I know of within an hour of me are in Nashua and Manchester, and both don't get comics until 4 PM Thursday ish.

Now I want to read Mattropolis' review, but I can't get onto FaceBook! Argh!

Now that my initial frustration with # 1 has been let out...

I am sure a lot of questions raised in # 1 will be answered as the storyline progresses.

I liked that Aven was (re)introduced.

I too felt Brainy looked a little "crazy" this issue and didn't really care for it.

I DO predict a noticeable monthly improvement in Cinar's art; this is pretty much a new-LSH artist truism... the covers themselves are growing more and more gorgeous.

My biggest complaint remains that with this oversized issue I wish we had seen MORE Legionnaires. The cast felt... too small.

re: Earth Man... I thought Geoff Johns bringing the former Absorbancy Boy back was a fantastic idea... this storyline is actually a first for the LSH... a rejected applicant FORCIBLY placed on the team... props to Paul Levitz for that idea. I'm willing to wait and see how this plays out.

And lash, since none of the Legionnaires from the 20th century are there, we may be seeing more of Tenz than you think...

You are right, Matt. My initial reaction and first post about the issue was a borderline off-the-cuff crybaby tantrum.

I have since taken a deep breath.

I know, I had the same feeling about Thom, Jeckie and Nura...

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Did anyone else notice who was missing from the Hall of the Dead? I wonder if it means anything?</span></span>

I *did* notice that. Hmmmm...

Jeepers, Matt! Don't put a spoiler tag and then tease under it! Spoil!

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Chemical King was not there... nor was Magnetic Kid, but Ferro Lad, Invisible Kid and Karate kid were </span></span>

I was pleased to find that after 20 years, Levitz still felt like Levitz. I didn't feel the same way about Shooter. The story-telling here had a lovely, familiar vibe to it.

I do think Brainy was over the top in character and in the way he was drawn. I think it shows just how influential the Vril Dox syndrome is. All iterations of B-5 after that have had at least a slight V. Dox feel to them.

Mllash, I too think that to not use a newly powered up Lu on a regular basis would be a shame. Six fingers crossed on that one.

Oh, I forgot to mention!

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">This spoiler space for rent. </span></span>

And... was it me, or was the Time Institute exterior missing a T in its Interlac?

Sorry guys I forgot that not everyone has Facebook, here is my review with spoilers.

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">My history with the Legion of Super-Heroes goes WAY back. It was one of the first comics I ever got - and for some reason I identified with it more than any other, except maybe for the West Coast Avengers.

Over the years, the Legion has gone through many permutations, some good, some not so much. But over the last couple years, the Legion that I loved has returned. And now. they have their own title again, as written by Paul Levitz.

Today the first issue came out, and it is certainly a very good start.

The story begins with Earth Man, former Legion applicant who basically was rejected, turned evil and eventually turned the world against the Legion. He is a prisoner and is being depowered, in what looks to be almost torture.

Then we move to Saturn Girl, who is on Titan. For the first time, I think, ever, I do NOT despise her for being a panel hog. Something else else about the way she is presented, while speaking with her old mentor, Doctor Aven, endeared her to me in a way that has NEVER happened before. Not only is she characterized well, but she looks great as well.

We return to Earth where Cosmis Boy and Ultra Boy show up at Science Police Headquarters, they are not happy with something that is being asked of them. Earthgov is asking them to take on a new member in order to keep Legion HQ on Earth. Earth will then allow the Time Institute to move to another planet (Titan). We do find out here that Gigi Cusamano, a great supporting character from the past, is now the Chief of the Science Police, in a logical progression.

We move to the Time Institute, where they are preparing a central veiwing area, where they will now be able to view history from a safe distance. Harmonia, one of the people at the institute takes on the Dream Girl role with her feelings of imminent disaster.

We return to Saturn Girl, who I am still amazed that I actually like in this (in my fanfic that I wrote years ago, I killed her off so as not to have to even deal with her), shows emotion about the absence of her husband Lightning Lad, who has left Saturn Girl and their twin sons on what Imra thinks is a ridiculous quest.

Back at Legion HQ, now regressed to once again being an upside down space ship, the rest of the Legion (well, the few that are present) reacts to the fact that they have to take Earth Man as a Legionnaire. They are decidedly not happy. Brainiac 5 is especially unhappy and storms off, trying to figure out a way to keep Earth Man in check, giving him a "very special" Legion Flight ring. As he walks away, Phantom Girl tries to calm him down. Very interesting is that they are walking by statues of dead Legionnaires. I am more interested in who is missing, than who is shown. Why is there no Chemical King statue???

Back at the Time Institute, our scientists decide that they want to look back and view the creation of the Universe. Uh-oh. Regular readers of ANY DC comic know this is a bad, bad idea...

The Legionnaires officially ask Earth Man to join the, as they ooze with hostility.

Back to the Time Institute, where a HUGE explosion occurs seemingly because of their hubris. The explosion is even felt on OA.Sodam Yat, the last Green Lantern, is aware that whatever has happened on Titan, will unleash a great evil. And something strange is happening on Oa's surface.

Saturn Girl sees the destruction on Titan and calls in for help then rushes off to find her sons.

A little green Guardian (?) named Dyogene appears to Sodam yat and takes his ring.

back to the Legionnaires who are speeding toward Titan, where they realize they will not be able to evacuate the entire planet in time.

Saturn Girl reaches her boys in order to see them mysteriously vanish! Were they killed or did someone snatch them?

Dyogene arrived where Earth Man is. EM is trying to decide whether to accept Legion membership.

Imra arrives at the Time Institute, where Harmonia and Saturn Girl meet. Saturn Girl asks for help in finding her sons.

The Legion has arrived on Titan, trying to help evacuate as many as possible. Brainiac 5 goes to the Time Institute where Saturn Girl takes off in a time sphere, leaving Harmonia to explain to B5 where she is going and why.

The Legion is unable to save everyone and are taking those they could save to Earth. I wonder how Earthgov will feel about that? Saturn Girl can feel the death of Titan even as she takes the Time Sphere in search of her sons.

We see various reactions to Titan's death cry.

Dyogene offers Earth Man yet another ring, this time a Green Lantern ring.

WOW! A lot happened! There was a lot that I loved about it and I wish there were more room. The Legion has a huge cast and all of the Legionnaires that were in the 20th century are apparently still there. Hopefully, we will see them soon, as I miss the large contingent of Legionnaires that SHOULD have been there to help save Titan. The bigger the cast to juggle, the better.

Questions:

Why isn't Chemical King in the hall of dead legionnaires?
Karate Kid IS there, validating one of his deaths, but which one?
Bouncing Boy and Duplicate Damsel are back to the Academy?
Why is Earth Man the most viable candidate for a GL ring?
Who is that with Polar Boy?

It's a good sign that I want to know more.

I know a lot has been said about the destruction of a Legionnaire's homeworld, and as predicted, it was Titan. I am not as upset about this as some are, but it did do one thing that NO ONE (even Levitz in the past) has been able to do and that is make me like, and I mean REALLY LIKE, Saturn Girl.

WOOHOO. MY Legion is BACK </span></span>

While the team already is way, way overstaffed, I'd pay real money to see Chemical King back.

Magnetic Kid? Not so much.

OOoh, Matt brings up a fun point!!!

I kinda like that Polar Boy is now <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">apparently a stud-muffin!!!</span></span>

Wow, a whole heck of lot of plot threads - both continued from John's departure, and newly introduced. I know I shouldn't have expected any less from a Levitz tale, but I had just gotten so used to a near glacial pacing in most comics these days that reading a story where things actually happen was just so refreshing.

That being said, perhaps a little more breathing room wouldn't have been out of place. I know it's a first issue, but there were a couple of points where I had to stop and say, "Wait a minute... wasn't Saturn Girl just at place 'A' a panel ago and now she's at place 'B'? Wasn't she just going after her kids and now she's pausing to aid with the evacuation?" It almost felt like some pages were out of order or something.

On the artwork front, I have no complaints. I had never heard of Cinar but, right out of the gate, he seems like a great fit. I'm totally digging his slight revamp of Dirk's duds to bring them more in line with the rest of the team.

One very random thing that jumped out at me... Brek... in bed... with a lady. Is this the first time we've seen any sort of romantic leaning for him... ever? And more to the point, regardless of who he's in bed with, why would anyone ever sleep under a blanket on Tharr?

Very nice afterword by Levitz. So... he lurks on messageboards, does he?

So ****ing awesome to have an actual Legion comic to talk about, after the year we've had, that's for darn sure!

Look on the bright side - those characters are alive and kicking.

My all-time favorite Legionnaire is now dead again.

I thought it was a lot of fun, even as big, heavy serious stuff was happening. I feel like Harmonia will be the Legion's new Ron Vidar and...are there sparks already between her and Brainy, or did I imagine that?

I think Paul is still finding his voice for the Legion and Legionnaires again, but that's understandable. I still think it's a promising start.

I wish the characters looked a bit more like they did in the Baxter series. Most of them either looked younger somehow or had hairstyles and costumes too dissimilar to what they used to. I know this is a holdover from Gary Frank, but it seemed more distracting than it was in Superman/LSH or L3W because the Legion are now in their own book.

I hope Paul explores what happened in the ?-year gap between what happened in his last issue and the Lightning Saga and Superman/LSH. There's some 'splainin' to do, but I know the wheels are already a-turnin' in Paul's mind. I have confidence in him.

I think the only thing that bothered me in the issue was how cold the Legionnaires seemed toward what happened to Titan. This kind of disaster was very uncommon in the original continuity, so I thought it would be devasting for them not to be able to save the planet. I would think that some of them would have risked their lives to get more people out up into zero hour, but they seemed resigned that they got all they could. Other than Imra, it seemed the only reason anyone felt anything was because of the telepaths' psychic death throes. I'm sure Paul approached things this way in order to make the story as accessible as possible, but it seemed a bit of a shorthand for longtime fans.

Still, I like that Paul is taking Geoff's set-up by the nads instead of just ignoring or glossing it over. The Justice League of Earth story should have repercussions, and the idea of the Legion having Earth Man forced on them is as novel a way of approaching it as I can think of. Revisiting Sodam Yat and the rebirth of the GLC was a smart move, too.

I also thought Dyogene was pretty rad--for some reason I hope he'll meet Gates and/or Quislet at some point!

I definitely would've liked to have seen more Legionnaires, but we got solid looks at Brainy and Imra in the issue. Imra is as fierce as I remember her, and whatever took her boys better look out! Brainy seemed a little regressed from how I remember him somehow, but it's admittedly been a long time since I've read Paul's version of the character. There was enough there to make me want more.

It's kind of a vaguely-defined threat, isn't it? On the surface what happened to Titan seems basically an accident caused by snoopy time scientists with no malevalence immediately evident. The main hint that there's something bigger going on came from the scenes on Oa and the references to this event being foretold. In the end both central plot elements come together in the form of the deputizing of Earth Man as 2814's GL.

So at this point it's difficult to say exactly what Paul's first story arc is all about. That's not entirely a bad thing as there would appear to be no particular formula for a Legion story we've read before. It's kind of like the first chapter or two of a novel to which we haven't read the dust cover to yet, so we have to simply read on to see what it's all about.

No, not a bad thing at all.

CBR Review is up : 3 out of 5 stars.

Is 3 of 5 stars considered good at CBR? Average? The reviewer seemed to think the issue... serviceable, I guess??

Better than zero.

I think, from now on, whenever someone gets a review on CBR, they're going to say, "it's better than what Villains for Hire got".

Did anyone recognize the woman in bed with Brek?

I did not. I thought maybe it was Lydda?

Sinde??!?!

or ?

Welcome back to the Legion, Paul Levitz. I wish you a long and prosperous run this time out.

I give the premier issue a solid B, and see lots of promise. I came into this issue carrying a lot of baggage. The introduction of the Approximate Legion has been poorly handled in many regards. As a loyal reader and fan of the Five Years Later, DnA, and much of the 3Boot, I've felt that my loyalty has been repeatedly rewarded with insult and disdain from DC editors and fans of the original Legion. Many times, those insults came from editors and fans who didn't seem to get that I was a fan of the original Legion. In spite of this baggage, I have faith in Levitz as a writer. That faith has to do with his commitment as a writer, his characterization of the Legionnaires, and his ability to manage the large cast and multiple ideas. Those qualities were all on display here.

Levitz had plenty of B issues or worse in his original runs. The strength of his work on the title came with his ability to tell a comprehensible story over time. The Legionnaires all grew under his care. He left a very different team than he started with. Am I thrilled with Earth Man as the newest member? Nope. Am I confident that I will get to know him better as the story unfolds? Yes, I am.

Saturn Girl was written well. That’s huge to me. I loved the way she kept her emotions in check while the twins disappeared and her world crumbled. She stood up to Brainiac 5 in a way that nobody else could have. It wasn’t rude or snarky. It was determination. She was right. He knew it. Bravo.

I look forward to watching Cinar grow as an artist. There were parts of the art that I wasn’t crazy about, but there were other parts that were just brilliant. I especially liked the full page on Titan with Colossol Boy, Brainiac 5, Cosmic Boy, Ultra Boy, Sun Boy, and Dawnstar. Nice team visual without being too crowded.

The text page was nice too.

So, we’re off to a solid start.

Jerry, re: the text page, I **LOVED** it.

Paul loved interacting with fans on the old LSH letters page... I hope he gets a regular text page now.

Hello, fellow friends! Back after soooo long!

And THAT'S how a Legion book should be like. Haven't been this interested since Giffen left the book (even though I enjoyed the hell out of Shooter's brief run - but that team concept was wrong).

I do hope Levitz get as far away as possible from the mediocre infantile drama that Johns changed the book into, and does exactly what he did now: a Legion book that jumps around, focus on a billion different things and it is crammed with content (not shock-value black-and-white scenes).

It seriously reads like a v3 book and the team SOUNDS/FEELS older already. Great!

Now, if we could only get some annuals/fill-ins done with Giffen, Grell and Lightle...

You are asking too much from the guy who gave us Everybody but The Legion of 3 Million Retcons Cos I Wanna.

I just remembered. Saturn Girl appears to be telekinetic now. That's a new one on me and I'm not sure I liked it. Her power's been too well defined for too long to suddenly grow new aspects. I hope they aren't trying to turn her into Jean Grey.

The head shot of her being all philosophical with the gold circle (halo) behind her reminded me of old saint icons from art history classs.

You're right, I also noticed that TK-looking panel... I doubt Imra head-butted the glass...

I'm not sure how I feel about this... on one hand, it's a natural addition/progression, on the other, it sort-of negates characters like Tellus, Kinetix and Life Lass ever adding anything new to the team.

WOW, I didn't even notice that. I'm not sure how I feel about it.

I think since Johns got into Green Lantern, it became less about morals and more about Willpower. We must not forget that Sinestro himself was a Green Lantern, so it's not like he was morally superior. That sounds more akin to the blue lantern.

There are 2 panels. There's also one where she appears to be keeping a column from collapsing on a couple crouching below. It's a little confusing. In the next panel, she's flying around with some kid in her arms, which left me thinking, "did she save those people or not? Was this kid under the column too and he's the only one she could save?", etc.

I just looked again and there's another panel on the same page as I described above (what the hell was wrong with page numbers btw?). It's also unclear, but it looks like she might be preventing debris from falling on civilians with her newfound telekinesis.

Somehow I thought it would just be some sort of Flight Ring improvement, using her brain power, rather than TK. But that's just me, I guess.

But she's using her standard "hand gestures around her face to show she's using her telepathy" in all 3 scenes.

Titan is not a planet,m so that isn't really destroying a planet (though I suppose it's a "world"). And at least they actually did the smart thing and prepared for disasters, so although lots of people died we won't see any last-of-their-world plots. Destroying a world is almost always a bad idea; it provides shock value for one issue and then the writers have to live with it forever. It's sort of like killing a character that way, except a world is harder to bring back.

I too thought Brainy was a little too mentally unbalanced here.

And Dawnstar's costume exposed so much of her breasts that we should be seeing nipples (or at least areolas).

I enjoyed this issue. It was refreshing to read a comic with so much going on (take that Bendis!). I loved the characterization Levitz gave everyone, even minor characters like the Time Institute scientists and the SP guards at the beginning (yay for Mike!). I also enjoyed the focus on Saturn Girl. When I read the Legion during the Reboot and during Waid's run, I never could get into her character. But here I was hooked into her right away.

And I'm excited to see where these plots go from here. Will there be backlash on Earth to all these Titanian refugees? Are Imra and Garth the relationship Levitz mentioned was over? So many questions!

Well, it seems like it's a replacement for Mogo. The sentient planet and Green Lantern Mogo has been established as the moral compass of the Green Lanterns. He's the one who guides rings to new sentients based on their moral fiber and ability to overcome fear. So if Mogo is dead in the 31st century, this Dyogene has taken over the role of handing out rings. We don't know yet what criteria it's using to pick our new GLs, but since it's picking Earth Man I'm guessing one criteria is being a sociopath.

And how well were Earth Legionnaires treated while Earth Man and the other Rejects were in charge? My guess is that Kirt's allies view them as race traitors and people like Earth Man as true Earthers. As the icon of the xenophobic movement, Earth Man might just make a good public example like Cos said.

Oh, and I also thought it was a fun nod that the Time Institute people kept mentioning Flashpoint, the upcoming event that Geoff Johns is working on. I like seeing *wink wink nudge nudge* style teasers.

I don't get my copy until tomorrow afternoon but I'm really excited about it after reading these posts.

I agree that Imra having TK powers would be a natural progression and I'm thrilled for her.
She needed something to take her out of the boring telepath non-action heroine.
Levitz can be much more active with her in TK/TP mode.

I hope he does similar things with others.
It's only natural that their powers would mature with them and we've seen similar things before.

For example: Vi went from getting mouse size (moset Adventure stories) to being able to go microscopic (or smaller) during the GDS.

I'm also excited to see him deal with the twins and the 'curse'.

The art in the 5 page preview seemed wonderful.
I really loved the look at Titan and Aven.

I can't stand EM/AB but what can you do?
I never liked Universo, either.

I love seeing LASH so excited and jumping around!
I'm glad someone reminded him of Tenzil in the past with the other ESers.

I kinda love that the last Legion review at CBR was #50, which got *half a star.*

Heh.

its like a high school reunion with your best friends that you havent seen in a long long long time long live (this) legion!!

I liked the issue, I am interested in Earth-Man because it is 2 things I really like 1. Green Lantern 2. Stories of Redemption/Villains becoming Heroes I love those kinds of stories so I am excited for what is too come. I found it really intriguing and hope to see more of the characters that I like: Lightning Lad, Wildfire, Polar Boy, and Timberwolf but I'll get used to it. This is the first time I'm buying the monthly of Legion and I'm excited for it.

I am SOOOOOOOOOOOO looking forward to this....that preview, even with only a few pages, has really whet my appetite.

Earth-Man I could care less about as a character, but I trust that Levitz will tell a good story with him..

By that reasoning, wouldn't the xenophobes just view Earthman as a race traitor if he agreed to work with the aliens in the LSH?

I agree that TK is a natural progression of Imra's powers, but I object to her just suddenly having them with no explanation. I also agree with Lash that it renders Tellus redundant. And Imra has always been in the center of the action. She's probably the most over-featured member ever with the possible exception of Superboy.

I also objected to Duo Damsel's power suddenly increasing with no explanation, but at least it was mentioned.

And Shrinking Violet's been going sub-microscopic since Adv. days. Adv. 350, 363, and 372 to name a few off the top of my head. Also in an early S/LSH, #202.

I also get the feeling that Paul's going to use his "the chronicles have been inaccurate" spiel to just magically sweep away any and all inconsistencies, which kind of irks me. Ignoring the old rockets the Legionnaires used to wear is one thing, but giving a central character a new power is another matter. IMHO, of course.

Already I have read the first number and I must say...It's wondeful!
Though I had liked to see to Shadow Lass, Timber Wolf, Wildfire, Mon-El, Lightining Lass, Violet, Invisible Kid, Chamaleon Girl, Night Girl, Gates and XS.
I have liked the new characters especially : Harmonia Li.
And to the end they gave to Saturn Girl telekinetic powers.
Always I thought that she should not be less than Jean Gray.
I hope that the power of the girls increase like in Thora's episode (Like Duplicate Damsel)
I do not believe that the girl in the bed with Brekk is Lydda, she must be another girl, or at least I wait for it.
I like much the couple Rokk - Lydda.
And does nobody remember that Dream Girl should be rescued for Superboy and Mon-El in the 21th Century?
Good luck with this new run.
And my personal wishes : Spider Gilr, Andromeda and Veilmist in this Legion.

One thing I liked that no one's mentioned is that most of the "paired off" Legionnaires didn't appear with their significant other tied to their backside.

Gim didn't have Yera standing on his shoulder, Wildfire wasn't tagging along with Dawny, and Jo and Tinya weren't side by side.

Makes you think these may actually be individual characters or something.

That's certainly possible too, and actually would be interesting to see Earth Man's reaction to suddenly being shunned as a race traitor.

Other people on the net have already noticed that the first issue in which Saturn Girl uses telekinesis is Adventure Comics #267, when making a kryptonite cage. Really, look it up. Although the cartoon is more likely as a source of influence.

I will look these up, since I have the Adventures.
I know that people had a problem with the reboot Element Lad having the ability to change his body to other elements but I found THAT in Adventure, too, so it wasn't really without established canon.
Fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(I sound like Quislet, lol!)

That was overly generous.

I think it's easy to overemphasize old pre-Shooter issues. It's true that Saturn Girl did use telekinesis. It's also true that Cosmic Boy had magnetic eyes, and the Legionnaires who Supergirl met were the children of the original Legionnaires.

I'd be wary of using everything that appeared in an issue that is so old it was obviously before the continuity had settled. Telekinesis isn't too bad, and I'd be happy with an offhand comment like we got for Luornu, but I don't want to see magnetic eyes start showing up.

No WILDFIRE?!? -- ZERO STARS! (just kidding ...)

I haven't read through this entire thread yet, so forgive me if this has been said, but I have a slightly off the wall theory about Earth-Man as Green Lantern. Notice that Earth-Man wasn't given the usual "You have the ability to overcome great fear. Welcome to the Green Lantern Corps" type speach. He was simply chosen to bear the ring. Now why? He doesn't have the qualities we think of for Green Lantnern. What he does have, is a desire for racial purity. Why could that be relevant now? Because this was started by the "Second Krona" event at the "Time Institue" Where am I going with this?

Earth-Man has been chosen as a 31st century Noah by the Guardians' backup plan to preserve all lifeforms and their genetic uniqueness in the event that the evil is again unleashed.

But it's probably something else entirely....

This was an excellent first issue, and to be honest, I wasn't expecting it to be this good. It's as though Levitz had been writing Legion stories all these years and this was just another issue continued from the last (from the 80's!). It might take Paul a couple of issues to find his true legs with the characters he knows so well, but awe what the heck!

The story so far is a good lead-in from the Johns' anti-alien plotline and the Earth-Man/prejudism/new GL plot developement is already interesting and I'm sure Paul has something extra special planned for this character (but somehow I don't think self- redemption is in the cards for him).

The artwork was great and I like how Cinar's style matches the contemporary artists' styles ala Marvel's "reborn" titles, yet still keeps it futuristic somehow.
BTW I checked with my mother who is Turkish as to the correct pronunciation of his name and it's pronounced Yil-di-RYE (like rye bread) Chi-NAR (the "C" sounding like a hard "ch" instead of "s") with the accents on the last syllables as is typical with the Turkish language.
Now we can say his name out loud with confidence if we ever meet him in person one day!

I KNEW it would be Titan that would be the world to blow up real good!
I did say it (along with a few others on here) waaaaaay back when we saw the first Levitz interview promoting the new series. Now let's see if the other part of my prediction will come true ... refugee Titan telepaths becoming sought after commodities/"guns for hire", etc.
Imra was portrayed with her true nature (thank you Mr. Levitz) and you can sure tell Paul's affinity and love for the character with how he writes her. She will always be one of my favorite Legionnaires.

As for who that girl was in bed with Polar Boy,... none of our business!! LOL
I think we'll find out sooner rather than later anyway.

I'm so excited about this "new" retro-boot version of my favourite comic that I can hardly wait for issue #2 to come out in June. It's been a long time since a comic made me feel this way let me tell ya.

Hey, did anybody else pick up the variant? It looks better "in person" than the pictures I'd seen, and I totally appreciated the 80's title letterhead they used. Bravo!

What he said. Besides Saturn Girl only uses telekinesis on the cover of 267, doesn't she? And covers are notoriously deceptive. Also, that was only her 2nd appearance and she never used that power again. Until now.

When did Element Lad change his body in Adventure? I don't remember that.

If a Green Lantern must be involved with the Legion, I sure wish it could be Rond. I don't suppose they'll revive him any time soon, since they've already killed him and brought him back once. Hmph.

There's something ironic about "Earth's champion" being made a Green Lantern, considering the fact that Green Lanterns were traditionally banned from Earth.

One of the things I seem to remember about Paul Levitz on the Legion is that he plays the hand he is dealt.

In his last run he did bring and end to Matter-Eater Lad's insanity,even though Tenzil was not one of his favorite characters.

He never brought Tharok back into the Fatal Five after he vanished with the Dark Man.

While I was glad Tenzil got better (even though we did not see much of him after that)

I was kind of sorry I never got to see the original Fatal Five in his last run.

Did I like everything Paul did with the Legion,no in fact my 3 favorite characters went through changes I didn't really care for,Timber Wolf and Wildfire lost their unique Cockrum looks that I loved so very much,and Karate Kid lost his life(though Kieth gets most of the blame for that)

But with all that said Levitz still wrote My Legion (well until they tied his hands with that darn Byrne Superman reboot anyway) and some of my favorite stories were his,I have faith that he will address all the unanswered questions we have in time and build upon the Legion Lore,and not sweep everything under the rug and start over!

As for the new 1st issue,I really enjoyed it,though I think it will take him a few more to hit his stride,I think it will be one hell of a ride,I just hope Giffen doesn't come back and decides he hates Brin and Drake as mush as he did Val!

actually, no.

Supergirl was told that, yes. But it was never shown.

The easiest continuity-fix would be to consider that statement a spontaneous fib, to divert the conversation away from Kara talking about Kal's experience with the Legion. This actually fits the theory that the Legion actually approached Kara first; thus the fib diverts the conversation from them hearing about their own future.

That is just my own speculation, of course.

But it doesn't change the fact that we had only one off-hand comment as evidence of Kara's Legion being children of the original.

So it's only true that the claim was made, not the substance of that claim.

only on Mondays.

That's 5YL, and therefore out of continuity!

I enjoyed it. As some have noted, it felt like a Levitz issue, which is guess is understandable. I do wish that Brainy had been a bit more collected and a bit more personable, as he was in Levitz's original run. He was never exactly the life of the party, but he wasn't totally alienated from the team either, usually. Imra felt like Imra for the first time in, what has it been, over twenty years? We didn't get to see much of the other Legionnaires, but we have time.

As for the whole Earth Man thing, I'm going to give Paul time to tell his story before I decide what I think of it.

I agree, but I'm giving him a break on this one. There are some things that he needs to never mention again...and the time burp from the Last Stand is also a good way to go about ironing some things out.

Actually, the Earth ban of GL's goes back to the reveal of it right after the Great Darkness Saga. Do not remember the exact issue number, but it was Blok watching an old archive story.

The "on Mondays" bit comes from 5YL.

Th GL ban is 1st mentioned in LSH Annual #1, I believe - right before GDS. But we don't find out why until right after (295)

Woot, finally got it!

I am all sorts of impressed that Levitz went into detail about Titan being unlivable without complicated life-support.

Sun Boy being out for blood was surprising. I don't remember him being this much a 'hothead.' Of the Legionnaires, I could see Polar Boy being the most pissed off at him, having lost an arm, and a former teammate, and, presumably, friend (in the hapless Double-Header), to Earth-Man.

Brainy being both cold and calculating during his leisurely stroll through dying Titan to collect his precious equipment, and freaking out over Earth-Man's admission to the team was jarring. He's not just showing signs of being crazy, he's showing signs of being *evil.* Did his encounter with Brainiac in the past infect him, similar to what happened in the second season of the cartoon?

Lots of plot seeds being scattered about. It should be interesting to see where they are going.

don't forget Sun Boy's unique situation under EM's control - whie the others were essentially frozen, he was tortured as a living battery - and seemed ot have lost his powers thereafter, for part of L3W.

It's to Levitz' credit to show Dirk still dealing with his feelings, rather than defaulting to template. Even s he comes to terms, the experience should be one with lasting consequences.

and Brainy is certainly showing antisocial behaviors, but nothing I'd call evil. At this point, anyway.

Bought it. Read it. Loved it.

• Saturn Girl shone like the star she is.
• Braniac 5 needs to dial down the crazy.
• Love Yildiray's Cosmic Boy.
• Love his Ultra Boy too.
• GiGi Cusimano!
• Imra's "panic room" is a great idea.
• 9 panel grid showing reaction to destruction was very effective for me.
• Legion being forced to admit Earth Man is brilliant. Raises so many ethical quandries.
• Don't really care about the Green Lantern stuff, but it wasn't terribly annoying either.

further thoughts on Imra's TK:

As established by Mentalla, there are different types of psi powers among Titanians. What if Imra is not using her own TK, but rather using her training, her Legion discipline, to direct the TK of others nearby, who are to panicked to properly act?

just a thought.

It would actually be kind of cool if she "learned" TK from Tellus.

I honestly don't get the upset with the costumes as stated by some fans. I think they strike a nice balance between streamlining and the little flourishes/details, mostly.

Well, Dawny's costume will always be nine thousand kinds of stupid, but I suppose that can't be helped.

As far as whether Imra has TK now, I decided to ask Paul himself on Facebook. We'll see if/how he responds!

Oh, I loved the emphasis/reminder of how fast Dawnstar truly is!

Set's mention of DOuble Header reminded me... no mention of Infectious Lass.

I know she's a minor character in the scheme of things and whatever, but really, this "Dru stuck in the 21st Century" thing needs to be addressed.

Jeepers! No fair! How are we supposed to spend endless hours quibbling speculating over the import of tiny details if you spoil it all by asking the creator what they're supposed to mean?

Of course, his beautifully ambiguous responce should provide much fodder:

I thought Mentalla was a just a bog-standard telepath, who used her powers more actively to control others minds, as Imra has been doing for years?

Did she also have telekinesis or precognition or something?

It might be interesting if Nura is also beefed up, being yet another psychic character that some might regard as having a 'weak' power (assuming that they haven't seen her Threeboot interpretation, or the movies Next or Minority Report, which present a more exciting view of precognition).

Not that I regard the woman who bursts into Universo's office, and before he could order Mon-El and Ultra Boy to kill her, shut them off like a light as 'weak,' but apparently I'm in the minority in not thinking that Imra needed telekinesis to be strong or effective...

I don't hate the change, but I think we've got enough new stuff to deal with without adding even more arbitrary changes to characters personalities and powers, like Quislet's new ability to shoot energy beams and stuff, in his 21st century appearances.

She says something to the effect that her powers, compared to Saturn Girl's, are "less a matter of reading minds than controlling them", which is still a variation of telepathy.

See also half-Titanian Mandalla, who (as I recall) had powers focused primarily on creating hallucinations.

These are both versions of telepathy, but with different emphasis than Imra was traditionally given (though at times, especially more recently, she has been able to do both). Having her gain telekinesis does seem like a bigger stretch than expanding her telepathic abilities.

At one point, the flight rings themselves enabled the user to do things that are similar to TK... Depending on their willpower...

As for Nura, the idea of her fighting by predicting the opponent's move was from Levitz's run, and I believe it actually had precedent before that.

And no one could ever deny Imra being chock full of willpower! In fact, let's give HER a Green ring...

So did he say anything about basing it on Adventure 267?

(And no, it wasn't just the cover only; she did it in the issue.)

I have to say it was a very good start. Paul really did a good job on getting the feel of the Legion.
I do have to say the Imra's TK powers did take me buy surprise. Thou...alot could have happened while she and the others were underground fighting Earth-Man. I do like the power boost and don't think that it will undermine Tellus at all.
I do have to agree with Lash, she was never one of my favorites, but now that we see she has to keep some of her secrets hidden makes since.

Brainy was a little off, but this could also be just Brainy. Rememeber is is a 12th level intelect dealing with normal people.

The death of Titan was also out of left field for me...So soon after seeing how it was "seeded", to being blown up was sort of shocking. Nice "gotta cha" Paul.

The Earth-Man/Green Lantern angle doesn't suit me thou. I'm almost hoping Sun Boy fries his @$$ or Polar Boy. BUT the one I really want to see freak out when they see Earth-Man is Tyroc. Considering that it was Tyroc that took him down the first time way back in the day.

I would also love to see some of the Subs that are still around. What condition they are in now. Surely they can grow eyes for Color Kid, and find Drura and Pete.

Someone brought up the couples aspect of some of the Legionnaires. Imra and Garth are still together. Don't know about Tinya and Jo....but Shady and Mon seemed to still act like a couple during L3W.

My only question is...isn't Dream Girl still a prisoner of General Lane? I seem to remember Starman finding her there?

All in all a very good issue.

Normal people can deal with others. Being a twelfth level intellect shouldn't make him lose the ability that normal people have. Yes, smart people sometimes act like that in real life but it's not because intelligence itself keeps you from interacting with normal people, it's a flaw.

It's also an extreme exaggeration of how he used to act. He did have occasional moments of frustration with everyone else, but they were just moments. And he was acting indifferent to people flirting with him or wanting to find the outcome of sports games--not indifferent to death and destruction or to a friend's need to protect her children.

Super intelligence should include social intelligence.

I have one quibble - it's not a big deal at all, but it doesnt really make sense to me, and someone else may have mentioned it in the previous 8 pages and I didn't notice.

Why is Brainy WALKING to the Time Institute rather than flying? Shouldn't he have a greater sense of urgency than that? He's floating above the ground but not really propelling himself. What gives?

Hey, after all, this is Retroboot Johns Legion, where rules are not established and everyone is supposed to "kick ass" and be a "fighter"!

Re: Brainy, I agree. Pre Zero Hour Brainy was shown as capable of feeling empathy. We always saw him mourn whenever a fellow Legionnaire had died, for example.

I'm sure many others noticed, but I'm not sureit was posted in this thread already. Imra mentions that her boys were with Garth's folks on Winath. I think it's pretty cool that they're alive again; I can't remember the issue, but the Mr. and Mrs. Ranzz were revealed to have died sometime in the '70s, right?

I think it's great they're (apparently) alive again.

She said folks. I don't think she meant parents.

Dyogene is the first Pokemon Green Lantern!!

Pokemon? I thought I killed him.

The way his brain works, he should *easily* be able to map out his fellow Legionnaires personalities, and be able to say *exactly* what he needs to say to get his point across not only efficiently, but in such a way that he's considered popular and friendly.

Instead, he deliberately (I assume) goes out of his way to communicate inefficiently, and then has the chutzpah to act all snotty about people 'not understanding him' or 'not being able to keep up.' It's worse than just being abrasive, it's *stupid.*

It's like Brainy is actively trying to make his life more difficult, and deliberately making it so that other legionnaires stop and question when he says something snappish and jerkish, instead of devoting the 2 Coluan brain cells it would take to say what he means effectively the first time.

Brainy being a jerk makes as much sense as Impulse waiting 5 seconds between each word, just to make communicating with normal-speed people even *more* infuriating than it already is!

Argh. The Brainy as social maladjust thing has always bugged me. It's just so stupid!

Adventure #331, the 2 issue story of Dynamo Boy and the adult LSV.
On the last page Jan, Superboy and Mon have tricked them as explained by ELad who's used his power of tranmutation to change the atoms of the world they and the villians are on to chain react with, and explode, the planet if the villians used their powers to attack.
Which they had already done.

Then, Superboy says, "And now the three of us must be going! Element Lad will transmute himself into a chemical fomr that can survive in space!"

That story is pretty early on, too.

#350+ is about half way throuh the Archives and the Legionnaires have matured quite a bit and Shooter is just about to take over.
So, I think I can consider Vi's powers to have matured as well.
But, you're rignt, they're certainly still in Adventure.
Just not early years, as Adventure goes.

About Imra, I don't need her to be powered up.
I just think it's not a bad idea.
If Paul didn't intend it, maybe Cindar thought she had TK or perhaps, I don't know his level of understanding english, maybe he wasn't exactly sure how to show what she was doing or doesn't exactly know what telepathy is.

Or, maybe, like Paul said, she decided to grow on her own.
I've writen things and that happens all of the time and I'm not collaborating with multiple other artists.

On Brainy, we have to remember that he just got back from meeting Brainiac and giving him over to Colu AND he met a Kara again.
She didn't know him and she's dead to him and he still loves her.
I'd say he's deep in grief and old wounds open and super preoccupied.
Just a thought.

I read the issue and really enjoyed it.
The only things, 2, that I thought were a little weird was:
1. 'Garth DUMPED the kids on me.' paraphrased statement.
I'd say she might be feeling a little guilty right about now.
And were we supposed to think the babysitter was under the rubble and that was his/her arm sticking out?
Or don't kids that young need someone to watch out after them on Titan?
2. 'ploink'.

Dowdy.
I said Imra looked dowdy before.
Things were 'tweeked' quite a bit this time, I think.
I'll have to go back and look at that issue I was commenting on but that was early on in the new Adventure, back when Garth looked like he had a diaper on.

Anyway, I'm a happy camper with this first story.
sigh

Finally got it!

A bit of a mixed bag for me. Some aspects were great. Some sucked. But most were just so-so.

I'd give it a B-/C+.

First the good -

* Colossal Boy gets to do something! It's great having a writer back on this book who likes Gim as much as I do.
* There was a LOT going on! So much better than that annoying decompressed, 'writing for the trade' style.
* Cinar's art was really good for the most part. And I agree that he's only going to get better.
* I was pleasantly surprised that the Legion were able to save as many Titanians as they did. I was fully expecting a world-wid annihilation.
* Doctor Aven! Love seeing elements of the Reboot creeping in! Who's going to be next?
* Gigi Cusimano. It's been a long time.
* That page of reactions to the destruction of Titan was effective. I love it when they do that in a comic. (And great to get a quick Chuck and Lu peak.)
* I liked Imra telling Querl to 'Get out of her way'.
* I still love the costumes though Dawnstar's boob window should not be that big.

Now the bad -

* Saturn Girl's new TK power (if that's what indeed was happening). Her telepathy has already been shown to be uber-powerful AND she is already the world's worst panel-hog. She does NOT need any more opportunities to steal space from other Legionnaires. ESPECIALLY Tellus who I feel has only in the last year or so finally come into his own as a respected Legionnaire. I hope the TK was just an artistic mistake.
* Note to Hi-Fi - Dirk Morgna has RED hair, not blonde! Yuck to that colouring mistake from the Threeboot holding over to this team.
* Everything Green Lantern-related in this comic bored me to tears.
* The Legion seemed way too casual and nonchalant about the fact that thousands of people were dying around them on Titan. That rescue should have been dramatic but why should the reader care if the team didn't even seem to?
* Brainiac 5 being the worst offender! That page of him just casually strolling along the street thinking to himself and ignoring all the people being crushed around him was sickening! That better have been another artistic mistake and not something Paul put in his script otherwise I would have to seriously question his ability to write this (or any other heroic) character.
* The page where the Ranzz twins disappeared was confusing. They looked like they blew up.
* I like Earth-Man as a villain. I don't mind him being forced on the Legion short-term but he has too much blood on his hands for me to ever see him as capable of redemption. This plotline better come to a head fast.
* None of the Legionnaires came across as particularly likeable to me. That's a big problem in an issue #1 IMO. I'm tired of bitchy, antagonistic heroes. This should be a team of friends remember Paul!
* For an issue #1 there weren't enough "cool" moments where a new reader would look at the Legion and go 'Wow! What a cool concept/character.' Everything was just kinda ordinary. If I wasn't already a Legion fan I don't think this issue would have turned me into one.

So, as you can see - not the best start IMO but there is enough good scattered in there that things could easily improve in the months ahead.

Random speculation time - what if the brunette with Brek is Lydda?!? That would be a natural development I think.

Forgot to mention - in his text piece at the end, Paul suggests new readers go to the DC Boards for help regarding their Legion questions?!?

<ahem> Us Legion Worlders are a lot more helpful and friendly than that bunch at the DC Boards, Paul!

P.S. Can't wait for


<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Tyroc</span></span>


next issue!

wonder what he'll be wearing. : )

he's already sleeveless...

You know, I can see how these pages would be interpreted as Imra using telekinesis, really easily actually, but I don't know if that's necessarily what's happening. In the first two instances, it's not really clear that she's stopping any of the debris from falling on innocent bystanders....I would say she's definitely using her power, but maybe she's calling for help, trying to calm the crowd, trying to screen out a zillion terrified psis so she can concentrate...it could be taken a lot of ways...

The one with the window does look a bit more cut and dry, but even there I am inclined to think she's using her power to find her sons while she uses her padded knee to smash through the window.

It's unclear and I am way willing to admit that I might be wrong, but that's my interpretation of it unless I actually see a power field effect, or see someone talk about her having TK or something like that.

I am of the party who agree that Imra doesn't need telekinesis. It detracts from Tellus, and she really honestly doesn't need the extra power. It's actually nice that someone who over the decades who has developed such immense telepathic powers has very distinct physical weaknesses to exploit IMO..

i agree. and i always preferred characters with simple powers who used them cleverly.

Shooter actually started with 346, so all the Vi examples are after he started. Also, there is more than one example.

Me too.

Me three!

If Garridan Ranzz exists and is a normal son to Imra, who or what is the Validus we saw in Lo3W?

His identical twin cousin, complete with British accent.

maybe he was kidnapped at a later date. (issue 1 right now haha) and put back through time .......

or he coudve been taken out of the time stream and then replaced/rescued later/put back ...... drama!

maybe this time he's just a big monster haha

Let's not forget way, way back in Superboy and the Legion Of Super-Heroes #224 when the team faced off against Pulsar Stargrave and his henchmen. One of them, Quicksand, liquified then solidified the ground that the Legion was standing on in order to trap them. Imra's arms remained free and she then concentrated really hard and hit Quicksand with that mental telekinetic bolt, knocking her out, which freed the rest of the group.
Sure that action caused her to pass out afterwards, but hey she's had YEARS since then to practice and perfect.
So ... why is everyone surprised by her actions in #1?
Paul Levitz never forgets!

People, it is RETROBOOT Legion! They might tweak things a bit, since there is not really a real chronology at this time (where did the "jump" from the Baxter series really happened? No one knows exactly, and there was no Xenophobia on Earth at all!). So we have to wait a bit to know what the deal is.

true, Ric. But people are eager to see everything they want to of the prior Levitz run.

personally, I hope Paul Levitz opts to ignore the Garridan/Validus thing and let them remain 2 separate beings entirely; it certainly wasn't the high-point of his 80s run. I'm hoping the new kidnap bit is a red herring to make us thing he's revisiting that turf; it doesn't seem his style to rehash his own work.

Umm, what? Telekinesis is using your mind to move things. A "telekinetic bolt" whose only effect is to knock someone unconscious isn't telekinesis, it's telepathy.

Honestly, when I saw the scenes in question the possibility of Imra having TK powers occurred to me, but there was no solid evidence. I didn't give it more than a passing though until I read this thread. I've a feeling from Paul's responses on Facebook that he didn't intend for her to be shown with TK. So far it looks like he favors the transuit explanation. He said:

"I like the transuit explanation. Or tough 31st century fabrics (the Legionnaires don't have a big tradition of battle-damaged clothing, so something must be used that's pretty tough...)."

I wonder if this is all Cinar's artisitc interpretation of Paul's script. Does anyone know if Paul wrote or writes full scripts (with detailed panel-by-panel descriptions)? I have to believe that when he collaborated with Keith, Paul probably gave Keith a lot of creative freedom in his layouts. I'm not sure if he did the same with Lightle, LaRocque and the others.

I'd guess that it would depend on the artist and Cinar's novelty might make Paul more prone to write very detailed scripts. I've assumed that full scripts are a more recent phenomenon overall and that many writers from the '80s and prior had looser scripts. If that is correct, and it's how Paul wrote them--has Paul's style remained the same or changed to the more panel-by-panel super-detailed approach?

Has anyone ever seen a Paul Levitz script?

in the 80s, the looser style was called 'Marvel stiyle,' a trad that began with Stan giving artists the gist of what he wanted, and then dialoguing to fit the art.

DC was always famous/notorious for scripts, but some teams dabbled with looser styles from the 80s onward. I'm not sure what Paul prefers, but as far as I know he came out of the full-script tradition that DC expected in the 70s.

Many thoughts on this first issue:

1) I also loved seeing the 80's masthead again - it still looks good decades later.

2) Lots of stuff going on, which is good. I like the fact that Mr. Levitz didn't try to cram all the Legion members in one issue. There's plenty of time to see all. The variety of Legionnaires on the next two covers is evidence of this.

3) Imra was definitely the star here. Paul seems to have no trouble writing for this character, which I image would be tough to depict a character with telepathy effectively and consistently. In regard to her new found telekinesis, I would prefer that be left to Tellus alone. She put herself in harm's way with the column falling, so she must have used something. As mentioned earlier, Dream Girl used her Legion ring and will power previously for limited TK. Maybe Imra had heightened abilities due to her proximity to Saturn's rings?

4) Earth Man will make things interesting, so I'm ok with his presence, although I would have rather had Double-Header a member before him. As far as GL's go, many are selected who are indigenous to their sector, so an "Earth Man" selection is not out of that precedent. I had actually hoped Dyogene would be a new GL/Legion member, since it looked like a cool alien.

5) The Brainy5 panels was the only thing that bothered me this issue. Recently, he has been depicted as motivated to be not only smarter than his ancestors, but to have outgrown them morally (and maybe spiritually) as well. His reactions to his teammates was condescending and to Titan's plight seemed out of this character and was disturbing. He actually did look a little crazed and out of control in spots, so maybe something is up...?

Overall, I enjoyed the story and art, and of course will be sticking around.

I wonder if the tv character "House" has had an impact on Brainy's behavior this issue. He too is a genius and treats his "lackeys" with disdain and contempt.

I'm thinking if Imra didn't have telekinesis then she and those other 2 people should be squashed like bugs by now.

And I agree that she used telepathy not telekinesis to strike Quicksand down in that old story.

The Dynamo Boy story cited should, IMHO, be stricken from the canon, for countless inconsistencies and illogical, ridiculous, and downright ludicrous actions and behaviors exhibited by all involved. I have tried to blot it from my memory and that's probably why it didn't occur to me.

I would have preferred seeing at least one 'teamwork' scene, where two Legionnaires used their powers together to do something that they couldn't do individually. Having Dawnstar carrying Jo, while he scanned ahead with Ultra-Vision, for instance.

These people have supposedly been working together for *years,* and yet all we see is a bunch of people doing their own thing, instead of any hint that they are (or have been) friends, teammates and / or lovers.

That might be interesting, but I suspect she was just meant to be 'random girl #23'.

Sun Boy being serious and grim, and Polar Boy being in bed with someone is quite the characterization switcharoo!

I kinda hope that the rumors of Shady and Mon breaking up are scandalous lies. The Quesada concept that 'married couples are boring' needs to be taken out back and shot.

Legion and Avengers my all time favorite teams both come out with a #1 on the same week and both with rosters I approve of...finally!

I've read everybody's responses and I agree with most of them.

Saturn Girl. I also understood that the Legion flight ring was like a toned version of the GL ring. Depending on willpower members can use "force" type of powers...like TK and forcefields.

I liked how she shone and I like when her kids disappeared she was ALL business. I liked that Brainy didn't question her.

Xenophobia/Earth Man and Aliens: Mr. Levitz laid lots of interesting groundwork here. By moving everything off of Earth (UP, Time Institute, etc) hopefully we see lots of other planets involved with the Legion! I like a less earth-centric Legion.

But by having Earth Man join it really makes it interesting. I hate him just as much as everybody else but I have to say I am interested in the politics of having him on the team. I almost see the earth Legionnaire's as "american" and the rest of the Legion the rest of our world.

I like that Mr. Levitz didn't throw in generic aliens as new characters. He used Harmonia Li & Adajpu. These two characters interest me and they are diverse human beings versus generic aliens. Good. Usalus "useless" is the generic token alien. I do miss ROND VIDAR. I became a huge fan of his in LOSH #50 and his recent appearance was awesome. So many people want him back...I hope they do bring him back.

Regarding the continuity comments...i don't care...as long as it's close enough.

As many already said...Gigi!

Cinar is a good artist and I think he can become a great artist. His Legion pinups looked much better than the interiors but I think he will improve. It always takes a new artist (even veterans) a good 3 to 4 issues to get into it. I'm sure Cinar wishes he had more time and it would be amazing but that's the game they play.

And as someone said...it felt like a Levitz comic. He didn't miss a beat...same beat 20 years later...and I hope he doesn't change it. If it ain't broke...

With that said there are some things I didn't love and it wasn't a perfect issue...but I enjoyed it and I know it will get better. (Brainy was a bit annoying)

i thought it was a really solid issue!
just like the cover, it didn't feel like a first issue at all really. not sure if that's a good thing or a bad. ideally, i would have liked a bit more of an intro to the 30th century and a visual recap of the Earth Man story. you had to hit the ground running, which is a good thing. it felt much meatier than most comics these days.
Brainy seemed way out of character even from his appearance in the Superman books. Walking calmly past people fighting for their lives, taking his time on his way to save Imra (one of his closest friends btw) was inane. Brainy is not Vril Dox. i hope Levitz can show us how they are different. Imra, however, was totally in character and shining. The tk issue really just looks like a misinterpretation by the artist.
i have to say i did not enjoy the art very much. it felt very awkward in too many places. the scenes in the clubhouse seemed cramped. the futuristic designs seemed dull. both Brainy and Earth Man seemed overwrought.
although i enjoyed seeing Gigi again, i thought it odd that the Science Police was giving the order to enlist Earth Man rather than the UP or the Prez of Earth (whoever that is now. Marte Allon anyone?)
it'll be fun having Earth Man for a member for awhile. will he use Green Lantern powers, or Absorbancy Boy powers, or both? can't wait to see Tyroc's reaction since he was framed way back when by Absorbancy Boy. I actually can't wait to see ol' Tyroc period. I hope they keep his big afro and his all white uniform.
overall i like the set up for the first arc.
in one issue we got characterization and action, glimpses of many legionnaires and existing plotlines, confirmation of the twins existence, Aven re-introduced, the Time Institute, and a Green Lantern tie-in (hello new readers!). bring on LSH#2!

Thank god for that! When I read Who's Who in the Legion and saw Tharok I was appalled (as a 12 year old). Half-man/half-robot? No way! I loved the recent Fatal Five and I gave Mr. Levitz props for not using the original. Mano on the other hand I like because of his name and hidden face in the helmet...but Caress was fun.

(pls no Tharok...pls!)

Gorilla Nebula makes a GREAT point about Absorbancy Boy and Tyroc's connection! I hope Troy punches his lights out!!

That seemed strange to me too. Forgot to mention it. The Legion falls under UP jurisdiction, not the SPs.

Why weren't the 21st century Legionnaires summoned to help save Titan? Doesn't that take priority over "guiding" Superboy and Mon-El to become heroes or whatever they're doing? Besides, with time travel, they could be in both places at once anyway.

Heck... why not summon Superman?

Random conspiracy theory time;

To the average Titanian survivor, it's gotta look hella suspicious that Earth went from hating all aliens and wanting to blow them up, to 'giving' Titan the Time Institute, which, 10 pages later, *blew them up.*

"Yes, let's bury the hatchet and be friends! Here's this lovely fruit-basket (made of plastic explosives...) as a token of our friendship!"

"Huh, it's a big wooden horse, left behind by the people who were trying to kill us. Let's just wheel that puppy into the city!"

While we can safely assume that the 'gift' of the Time Institute *wasn't* a deliberate attempt to rid Earth's solar system of alien worlds, to the traumatized survivors of Titan, I could see this conspiracy theory gaining legs...

I said 350<span style="font-size: 18px;">+</span> because all of Jim G's examples were 350 and later.
(She DID become bug sized in one issue that I saw, early on, which is smaller than a mouse, too, just not microscopic, that I could find, anyway.)

And you're right, Shooter did a few earlier issues, but he didn't do #350, or #351, so that's why I put it that way, perhaps not the best choice of words.

Citing his earlier issues is a good point, though, since Shooter might have had an influence on those two issues, even if he was uncredited.
Which might make me more right, which I like!

[replying to Set]

...except that as telepaths, they'd be able to spot a conspiracy, if it existed. Given recent hostilities, there would probably be plenty of Titan's best agents already on Earth, looking for retaliation by the xenophobes.

It does seem like the destruction of a fellow Legionnaire's homeworld would be worth pulling out all the stops for. And a founder's homeworld, no less.

True, although we have now established that telepathy *can* be blocked, leaving the possibility that the only earth agents who knew about the Time-Institute-as-alien-killing-bomb conspiracy were somehow shielded.

It's pretty much impossible for the earth to be flat, the moon landing to have been faked, 9/11 to have been an inside job or for the president to be a Manchurian candidate and yet there are people who believe that nonsense. In the wake of the loss of their entire world, and, in most cases, at least some friends and family, I could see not every Titanian being entirely rational, and be as prone to casting around for someone to blame for this tragedy as a human would...

Technically, it's could be either TK or TP depending on what the 'knockout punch' was, mental or physical.

But, I agree that the blow was probably mental.
Only, why would such a simple TP act for Imra make her pass out?
hm

Boy, do I NOT want Tyroc to have an afto and open chested bathing suit for a uniform.

He's another Legionnaire (like Chemical King) that I have never really read new adventures of (the one exception be was when Marzal left this dimension, taking Tyroc with it)

I assume it must take alot to actually shut another person's mind down to an unconscious state.

With TK, you'd have to actually pick up some object and hit her with it, or pick her up and batter her against something.

perhaps. but if Titanians are culturally used to assuming that someone will sooner or later slip up on underhanded dealings, they might be more inclined toward taking things at face value unless there is reason to think otherwise.

If you or I hear an unfamiliar sound, we can look at use our eyesight to make sense of it, and it will usually turn out to be something mudane that just sounded odd; a sightless culture but take it more suspiciously because they lack what to us is a pivotal sense in processing information. Similarly the range of senses a Titanian regularly experiences would provide an even more informed view. Even the rare blocking of psi abilities would have context.

In short, it's hard to see how a psi-adept civilization would be so quick to emulate some of our behaviors. It just seems that cultural foundations would be that much more alien to our approach to things; having them reach as you suggest just eradicates the differences that should be there.

Very good points, and I'm a big fan of the alien cultures not acting or reacting exactly like humans would.

what happened to Aven? did he die? I hope he gets shown being with his Braalian partner....eh?

Tyroc! he's back?!? I really hope so!

Chemical King...hmmmm....he does have the potential to come back alive from dead.

where the heck is Dream Girl? that s one plot dangling too long!

who will be on the cover variant #2? Tryoc? hmm I hope so! LOL! yeah the one with white costume!

no mention of XS and Gates?

That's not surprising. They only had about 3 to 5 adventures each and none in the last 20+ years.

Thanks for the support Candle ... you're the best!
I guess it's hard for some to imagine that the attack on Quicksand might be the start of TK control ala Jean Grey.
But not hard to imagine for me.

If Cinar interview on a blog is correct (don't have the link here - it's on his Twitter though), Paul wrote full scripts.

Levitz fairly notoriously disliked Tyroc, so I doubt we're going to see him--unless someone has seen a preview/interview contradicting that?

Tyroc? I\'ve gotta figure that out.

Tyroc by issue #2 or 3

I assume it must take alot to actually shut another person's mind down to an unconscious state.

With TK, you'd have to actually pick up some object and hit her with it, or pick her up and batter her against something.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I've read many, many stories using TK.
Depending on the perimeters set by the authors, there is absolutely no reason for someone with TK to have to resort to a weapon.
And it would be easy to support someone from behind while popping them on the chin or squeesing a nerve or even jolting a heart muscle.

Jean could arrange molecules.
A TK doesn't need to be nearly as powerful as her to do incredible things with just a little 'twist'.

I'm sure this is all mute if Paul said he didn't intend Imra to have the power.
Unless, . . .

Tyroc better refer to Earth Man as "honky" at least once!

Thanks, 'Crawler...I've been out of the loop too long.

Other than TMK, I've yet to read a single Tyroc story--did Tyroc really say "honky"? If so (and I realize he probably didn't), that would be THE COOLEST THING EVER!!!

No... but it would still be THE COOLEST THING EVER!

Sweet Christmas! As Isaac Hayes would say, "You're damn right!"

Crap! Rhino's Harmonia thread got me thinking about the ambiguous nature of this story's threat thus far. With time being mucked with, could Paul be leading with a Time Trapper arc? Oddly, enough, that hadn't occurred to me until now.

I honestly hope he isn't, given the recentness of L3W.

If I know Levitz, odds are its some vaguely defined personification of an abstract concept or other!

That's so cool, NC!
I don't know what Tyroc will look like but I hope he looks like my version in Bits. . .!
(Fat chance, I know.)

Yeah, hopefully Tyroc's return doesn't coincide with the next hit for Deathstroke's Titans. :rolleyes:

Hmm... does that mean that a huge number of latent Titanian sociopaths are now away from the calming radiation of Saturn's rings, and thusly are free to be active sociopaths with mental powers?

Somone asked about Gates. I can't recall exactly where, but in an interview I thought Paul mentioned that Gates' teleporting made Vi sick so I bet we see them in the next issue or two as well.

No, What you're describing is the explanation for Saturn Queen. Saturn Queen is an Adult Legion character only and never appeared in normal continuity (except during the TMK era, which isn't in continuity). So there isn't actually any reason to believe that Saturn's rings have any effect in normal continuity.

Edit: Actually, it turns out she appeared in Legion of Three Worlds and in Superman/Batman.

Animated-'verse Tyroc looked really good. They should have given him some actual time in the spotlight. [grumble]

She also appeared quite a bit in the Silver Age stories - but as a character from even the Legion's future.

(edited)

She didn't appear that often, her next appearance was in Adventure 331, where she was still from the Legion's future. She claims she "have in to the desire to become a super-criminal", without specifically mentioning Saturn's rings.

I think it's still out of continuity, though. At best, the LSV in that story has to have come from an alternate timeline.

even so, let's face it - any decisions you or I say about what is or isn't in continuity is speculative. Things that are out can be re-added. It's not really up to us.

Awesome news about Tyroc! I hope he isn't the Black Panther in the 31st century (he never really was).

I am for as much V5 TMK easter eggs as possible. When it first came out I was still in shock of the dismantling of my favorite team but after 12 issues I realized that was some really high quality stuff!

After the Levitz run TMK is my next favorite!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ultra Jorge:
[QB]Awesome news about Tyroc! I hope he isn't the Black Panther in the 31st century (he never really was).

LOL.
On the opposite side of the Tyroc coin I hope he doesn't come back with a Samuel L. Jackson-esque "attitude" about everything, you know... too cool for the world and way too full of himself. That cliche stereotype would be just as bad, if not worse.
Maybe we'll see him come back just as a normal, even tempered verteran who can be taken seriously, and with better control of his powers. That would make him useful and sought-after in this new series, when the situation arises.

Actually, Levitz, himself, once commented on that first LSV story when reprinted in the ADVENTURE Digests. He deemed the crimelessness on Titan and the mental powers of its people a "pivotal part" of Legion mythos.

Ugh. Tyroc. I hope he's more like Banshee this time around instead of having those ridiculous screams that can do anything.

Interesting, Korbal. But of course 25ish years later, he's allowed to adjust his opinions - if he chooses to. He apparently has on Tyroc, at least.

Agreed. I love Tyroc but it's much more 'in spite of' than 'because of' his stupid powers and those completely ludicrous to read screams.

Give him vocal force-wave powers like Black Canary and the ability to teleport like Gates and he's good to go IMO.

Jim and Blacula, I have to agree with you about defining the limits of Tyroc's powers and those were excellent examples (Canary and Banshee). A part of a good story involves the hero overcoming her/his own limitations. IMHO, when the Archie LSH started "up-sizing" their powers (Brainiac 5.1, indeed!) is when the story-telling deteriorated rapidly. I believe that if he is motivated to do so, Levitz of all people will create an engaging Tyroc, much the way TMK turned Tenzil from a boring and useless character to one of the most enjoyable.

I welcome Earth-Man becoming a Legionnaire. The resulting conflict will be a great opportunity to expand characterization of the individual members and give us insight into the minds and personalities of our heroes. I am reminded of the Levitz storyline about the identity of Sensor Girl. I enjoyed hearing speculations from each Legionnaire and their reasoning. Even in the happiest of families there are conflicts, and in the chronicles of our super-family, conflicts and obstacles are absolutely necessary for engaging stories. Most likely, we will find the resolution of the Earth-Man plot as satisfying as that of "Who is Sensor Girl?"

Are you sure you're NOT Levitz, KryptonKid?
You write like a writer.
And you type like an office wizard!
How do you do that with no mistakes or misspellec words?!!!
gads

Good points, as well, of course.

"Boring and useless"? How dare you! Tenzil was NEVER boring!

<zips lip>

The Many Heroic Deeds of Matter-Eater Lad

I know!!
So clear, so concise, so, ummm...correctly-spelled!!

I know that Lash will kill me for this... but I have never ever liked Matter-Eater Lad.

But I know that some people love him, and although I don't care to see him again, I know they do.

I like Tenzil Kem, as some sort of lawyer, politician, celebrity, etc. and wouldn't mind seeing him around as some sort of Gigi Cusimano / Shvaugn Erin / Dr. Gym'll like supporting character.

I don't really like Matter-Eater Lad. His powers are too silly, and writers attempt to make him appear effective by having him bite people's guns in half or something equally ludicrous.

And to double-down on heresy, I don't like the super-pets, either!

I didn't either Set. I expect to be banned any moment... LOL

Both of you are

me, too.

ooops

don't worry. You me and Set can form the Legion of Villainous Message Board Posters.

Ohhh I get to be a Founder of something!

Thank you so much. The fact is I have never spelled well. Before I post I usually double check all polysyllabic words!

As far as Tenzy goes, I really wasn't commenting on his particular magnificence, but rather the writers' intimidation at the thought of handling such a stellar presence. If it were not for his oozing manly hetero-ness I would definitely date him. The fact that I am insane for ear-nibbling notwithstanding.

I DID catch the typo 'c' and was going to change it, but it seemed so appropriate that I just left it.
I'm glad you picked up on it.
(True story!)

A tribute to Titan:


photo from the Cassini Mission, NASA

Okay, I’ve finally gone out and got LSH #1 after realizing if I waited until I do my normal comic book run, this thread would end up with 10,000 pages. I’ll post my initial reactions and then read the thread and post any additional comments (which could take days).

First: welcome back Paul! You’ve been missed and more than I think you really know. My dream Legion run since I’ve been a fan (age 15) has been the return of Paul Levitz even though his Legion run ended when I wasn’t even 10 years old yet. And so far it seems seamless, like he’s gotten any writer’s rust out of his system already. As a writer he accomplishes several things, many of which he’s famous for. The pacing of the story is spot-on, giving us something many other comics of this era do not, which is the sense that we are actually getting somewhere, while allowing various subplots and character moments to filter in. He’s able to balance a large cast and I have a feeling that as time goes on it will be larger and larger per issue and I can’t wait for that—but I don’t mind a limited number of Legionnaires in the early issues as the creative team finds their stride and any potential new fans aren’t overloaded. And he is able to give us a ton of information in various forms without being obvious in his usage of filling in the reader.

The artwork by Yildiray Cinar was also a solid performance in #1 and I really can’t wait to see how the art grows over time. I already love the depiction of Sun Boy, Phantom Girl and a bunch of others who I didn’t think were quite ‘right’ under Gary Frank’s pencils, even though I might not have realized it at the time.

Love the inclusion of Gigi, the intro of Aven in this continuity and the new introduction of Harmonia Li. The Legion, despite being a huge cast, needs an ongoing set of non-Legion supporting characters and it feels good to see the mythos ‘growing’ again, rather than what has felt like re-re-reintroductions these last few years.

The Earth Man plot line is I think a great hook to get readers of the Action story to be interested while also providing a very sharp dynamic to push the story forward. I understand some other readers are upset about his inclusion but you can see the Legionnaires feeling exactly the same way, so I don’t see the problem. I’ll definitely give the story some time to judge for myself.

The Green Lantern stuff isn’t as distracting as I thought it’d be and I understand it’s a necessary evil to bring in new readers (because GL is just a hot property now). Am I thrilled by its inclusion? No, not really. But I’ll let it pass if it a solid story can come of it.

Thinking in terms of the larger DCU mythos, when Krona saw the birth of creation, it unleashed the Anti-Monitor. I wonder if the same thing will occur, or just what has been unleashed? This certainly gives the opportunity to introduce a Darkseid-in-GDS level threat for the first large arc.

I thought the star of the first issue was Imra and I’m really happy with that. Imra-haters will complain with her stealing the spotlight but I say good! Imra is an icon and if ever there were new readers now is the time, and they should thus be introduced to her (and Brainy) in full effect. It feels good to see the ‘real Imra’ back in action too, as the super-competent, Legion leader / mom / telepath supreme that she is. Now if only she could get her hair back and get rid of the awful Rosemary’s Baby cut.

Glad to see Dawny & Jo flying outside the cruisers and Jo noting the limitations of his power. The technique of informing readers of a character’s power by explaining its limitations is a tried and true method that is not often used anymore and should be done more often. Readers love that kind of thing. I’d like to see more instances of Legionnaires using their powers (or unable to do so) other than fighting in a huge gang-fight ‘dog pile on the rabbit’ scenario.

Am I getting ahead of myself in seeing a potential Harmonia Li / Brainy romance?

I note Chuck & Lu are back at the Legion Academy. I’m cool with that—I’ve always loved them in that role.

I’m hoping soon we’ll get a full listing of the current Legion roster so we’re not all left wondering.

Something else else I’m really hoping Paul includes: Encyclopedia Galactica entries and other type narration techniques.

All in all, I’m pretty pleased with #1 and can’t wait for more of the series! I’m pretty pumped on the Legion for the first time in many years and all the excitement I’m feeling towards Paul’s return seems to be paying off!

PS - what the heck are some of you talking about with Imra having a TK power? I saw nothing of the sort!

Besides, any telekinesis Imra has can be attributed to the flight ring.

PPS - Kent had a good point on page 2 of this thread, that the 'upside down rocket ship' inspired Legion HQ thing has been done so many times its kind of weak now. Time to move on! Give us an awesome Legion HQ again.

PPPS - Polar Boy totally scored with some hot Tharrian chick! His friendship with Dirk is already paying dividends!

PPPS - "Chronicles are inaccurate"...brillaint way to explain away lesser writers and editors inability to handle continuity.

Great observation rogue and I totally agree!

nice Titan poster, Candy!

It almost has an "embryo"-esqueness to it's dark centre, sort of like if you held up a 5 day old chicken egg to a light.
Very cool.

Hey, gimme a break ok? It's the end of the day, I'm tired, and I probably had too much brandy.

Those are when the most brillaint posts happen!

Future King is now ready to be initiated into the LDMBP! The Legion of Drunken Message Board Posters, Cobie's one true lasting legacy here on LW!

In typical fashion, no one can remember our meetings but we know many a good time was had!

The first Legion of Super-Heroes comic I ever read was the first issue of the threeboot legion, so I feel a little sad that my original team isn't continuing. That said, I enjoyed what Geoff Johns did with the Legion in the Superman books and Legion of Three Worlds, and I'm familiar with this version of the legion from reading several of the archives.

All in all, I thought it was a great first issue. I liked the team dynamic. The idea of adding Earth Man to the team is interesting, I see a lot of good drama coming from that, especially now that he is a Green Lantern. The art was also great. Looks like I'll keep reading The Legion.

Lucky--you have a bit of a unique perspective around here, coming in with the threeboot (so does Caliente--post more, Cali!). I definitely would love to hear more of your opinions as new issues come out and what you think about them!

Bought it today, read it, loved it!

I agree with y'all who have said reading this new first issue is exactly as though Levitz had just picked up where he left off....it could be an issue from the 80's, and not in the sense that it feels dated and mired in nostalgia, but more that it is comfortable in its own skin and the characters and the universe are familiar; but at the same time, new directions are being explored.

I have a feeling the writing and art are going to gel more as time goes by, and will only improve.

Very happy camper!

I haven't bought the Legion regularly in over four years--since the threeboot began--and have read only sporadic issues since then. Nevertheless, I bought the new LSH # 1 yesterday.

I also haven't read all 16 pages of this thread yet, so forgive me if I tread on some well-worn paths. I'm also assuming that most of the major spoilers have already been spoiled. If they haven't, then read no further.

One could have hoped for a more original premise behind the launch of a new Legion series, particularly one that marks Levitz's return after 21 years. The hubris of viewing the creation of the universe is one of DC's oldest tropes. It always goes badly. Here it's used as a vehicle for destroying Titan. In the old days, creators sold comics by killing off a beloved character. These days, they sell comics by destroying whole worlds. The destruction of Titan is as much of a sales gimmick as the GL ring on the cover.

Gimmicks are usually employed to cover up the lack of substance in a story, and, sadly, that's mostly the case here. There's a lot of sturm und drang as the Legionnaires go through the motions of expressing emotion, but little of it seems significant. Cos and UB blow up at Gigi. Imra blows up over Garth. Brainy blows up at everyone. And Titan just blows up.

All of this is a set up for Earth-Man's choice over whether or not to join the Legion or the GL Corps--or both. I actually liked this development somewhat--the Legion is forced to take on a new member for political reasons, a member who represents the antithesis of what they stand for. This is a way of challenging the team, making them grow (I hope) by confronting a situation they haven't had to confront before.

Of course, the idea itself is hardly original. Governments have been trying to control who's on super-hero teams at least since John Byrne's Avengers run back in 1979. I also don’t understand the politics behind the Legion's "compromise." I understand that the Legion must take on Earth-Man so the team can keep its headquarters on earth—but why? Such a move would make sense only if Earthgov thought that Earth-Man’s presence in the Legion would placate or disperse his followers. But are Earth-Man’s followers that numerous? What has happened to turn earth people against aliens and/or the Legion?

It's a pity when one has to come into the middle of a story in the first issue.

Levitz paces the story very well, and the dialogue reveals much of what needs to be revealed. A few Easter eggs (“weirdo Legionnaires”) dot the landscape of the issue, but they do not distract from the story, as Levitz’s fanboy obsession with trivia often did in the past. Glimpses of several Legionnaires are provided in concurrently running subplots—a Levitz trademark.

Unfortunately, these glimpses don’t potray the Legionnaires in the best of light. The worst is Brainy, who looks and acts as if he’s still insane. None of the Legionnaires come off as remotely likable or even identifiable. Even Imra engenders sympathy only after (cliché of clichés) her children vanish before her eyes.

LSH # 1 panders to the worst expectations of comics fans: Destroy a world. Get rid of the children. Have everybody behave like a jerk. In some ways, this issue reminded me of Giffen’s first LSH in 1989—except that the current issue lacks the subtlety of complexity of that issue. One might see how the situation Levitz sets up could easily lead to falling out, disfavor, and disbandment of the Legion that Giffen depicted. But instead of coming off as daring and original—as Giffen’s vision did—this issue feels like its regurgitating the worst in-bred and self-referential tendencies that the DCU has to offer. I can’t imagine new readers being drawn in by this. Even as an older fan, I felt as if I were reading something that looked and sounded like the Legion but was missing its heart and soul.

Well, at least the Cinar/Faucher artwork is nice to look at.

True, but I think this is also a way to explain Levitz's own lapses or selective reinterpretation of past stories.

In the text feature, Levitz makes a parenthetical comment--"(we once believed [the Legionnaires] used jet packs and flying belts, but in all probability the flight ring was their most important device from close to the team's inception)." I thought this was a very telling comment. On one hand, it seems to be an unnecessary retcon. On the other hand, it is probably meant to excuse any inconsistencies readers find in Levitz's own stories, such as Imra's telekinesis.

Levitz has always employed this sort of storyteller's perogative to be inconsistent. I remember a similar explanation from the first Mayfair Legion Sourcebook, I think. Levitz wrote something to the effect that Legion stories are "channeled" to present-day creators who reinterpret them in light of their own understanding of the universe. That explains inconsistencies in early Legion stories such as Cos's magnetic eyes.

For what it's worth, I actually like the team's development from the use of jet packs to flight belts to flight rings.

Me, too.

I suppose it's tempting, in light of how technology has changed since the Legion first appeared, to try to excuse the antiquated use of jet packs and flying belts in the earlier stories. But such excuses are both unnecessary and detrimental. They suggest that the earlier stories have to somehow be "fixed."

However, not everything needs to be fixed or explained away. Doing so kills the mystery.

I like the idea that the flight rings were developed later, by the team itself (through whatever combination of Imra, Mon, Brainy and / or Lyle one wants to fancy), and were themselves upgrades from fancy expensive flight belts (which were still advanced enough that they made acceptable consolation prizes for heroes who didn't make it to be Legionnaires!), while the every day schmoe would likely only have a small jet-pack dealie, if they used personal flight devices at all, instead of skycars and stuff!

On the other hand, I was never a huge fan of the 'molecule-thin transsuit' that Ultra Boy could wear, even when being shot by space cruisers, and not have to worry about getting damaged...

On the other, other hand, not wearing any sort of transsuit, or, at least, carrying a backup life support system means that people getting their arm chopped off by the Persuader (or ripped off by Earth-Man) are going to have to worry about their life-support going buh-bye with their Flight Ring...

(Cosmic Boy, Colossal Boy, etc. often have pouches, in the latest art. I wonder if they keep spare life support gear, handcuffs, etc. in them, for such practical situations?)

I'm going to keep saying it: there is no evidence yet to support the idea that Imra has telekinesis--it's all speculation.

This falsehood cannot be inflicted on the common LW lurking class.

Feel free to add your speculation.

What do you believe she's doing with her telepathy to the doomed couple on page 24? Collecting their last will and testaments?

What do you believe broke the window on page 27? The power of love? String theory? Gas pockets? An invisible batarang?

Can we inflict upon them our inexplicable fascination with Matter-Eater Lad, Infectious Lass, Dr. Landro's Hot Nurse and Saucy Jones?

Those things are akin to teaching people how to read, or even breathe.

*If* there is any TK, it's coming from her flight ring usage. Because there is nothing in the story to suggest she has the ability to use TK other than some misinterpretations on the artist's part. Given the larger context of Legion history, the burden of proof on this debate is on people trying to suggest she has it.

I would say nothing in the story says she has it, and we know Levitz has shown Legionnaires use the flight ring to do TK-related things before (re: Dream Girl), so if you feel the telepathy does not explain things (of which, you make some solid examples, I agree), then the flight ring is the culprit.

Only if Paul outright says: "Imra has telekinesis powers", then we can all attack him relentlessly for such an awful decision.

I'd actually rather *not* use the flight ring explanation, just because I really don't want to see Legionnaires regularly using their flight rings to simulate TK.

Anyway, it's been along time since I've read the Dream Girl scene, but I thought it was mostly a matter of being able to control the ring itself from long distance?

If the art had depictedImra using her Flight Ring to accelerate her palm or fist into the window, or even to 'fake' super-strength for a moment, by pressing her ring-bearing hand against a falling column and 'flying' upwards against the pillar, to slow it's fall, I'd love that Imra's that clever.

If Levitz says 'no TK,' I'm thrilled that it's just an artefact of writer / artist collaboration that wasn't quite ironed out. Either the artist, by changing the layout of the scenes, or the writer, by adding text boxes or 'speech bubbles' showing what Imra was telepathically saying to those doomed people, could have made those three panels clearer.

I still like the idea that Imra is using the victim's TK to save themselves. They're in shock and she's in control enough to focus their direction.

And it looks like her knee went into the window first as if she jumped into the window and thus shattered it upon impact while mentally searching for her sons.

^The real culprit then, is the editor, on whose shoulders these errors fall on.

And I agree, that is the very likely thing that happened.

A point I was trying to make but maybe wasn't clear on is there is nothing that suggests explicitly Imra has telekinesis. For instance, one can look at those panels and say "Imra has magnetism" or "Imra has the ability to animate inorganic objects". It's the readers who are putting the notion of telekinesis forward. This is based on the (very natural) assumption of telepathy being related to telekinesis. I understand that completely, but its still an assumption readers are making.

Ooh, that is my favorite explanation!

[snip]

Ha! I think it's funny that we both fell off the wagon because of this comic.

Also, I think my expectations weren't that high, so that may be why I enjoyed it more than you did. After so many years out of the loop, I'm mostly just relieved that I could follow the story and not be completely lost.

Question for HWW: will you be picking up #2? (I hope so, of course).

I enjoyed the first issue, and I am willing to give Levitz some time to a) deal with the stack of stuff he has been handed, and b)get back into his stride.

I am enjoying the characterisation so far. Brainy makes sense. I know a few scary-bright people, and this is a good approximation of how they operate.

Imra's actions and reactions are well written and believable, and I will wait for the rest to see how they play out.

No, this is not the Legion we last met 20 years ago. So what? They've changed, and so (I hope) have I. They are old friends we haven't seen for a while. I for one am happy to relax, chat, and find out what's new.

If Imra's using her flight ring to do the "TK" then why isn't she pointing her hand at the falling debris/window instead of gesturing at her head like she does when using her mental powers?

I hope she does not have TK and that it WAS just an artist's mistake.

However, if she DOES have TK, there was a perfect opportunity to explain it and perhaps it was being hinted at. Again, I wish I could cite page numbers, but when Aven tells her he's amazed at the degree to which she's developed her powers, that could be a hint that she is indeed now telekinetic. A more obvious sentence could've been added afterwards to spell it out explicitly but perhaps Levitz is being coy about it, or was waiting for her to demonstrate her newfound power to surprise us.

I"m all for upgrading the weaker member's powers to make them more useful but IMHO, Imra is not on the weaker members list. Her telepathy has always served her well and she's always been in the center of the action. Nor did I think Shrinking Violet's powers needed upgrading in the last reboot. Her shrinking powers are versatile enough on their own. Projectra also did not need the Sensor Girl upgrade. IMHO.

Phantom Girl, Shadow Lass, and Dream Girl DO need upgrades imo. Shadow Lass had one as Umbra, but now that's out the window. Long before White Witch joined up I used to champion the cause for Dream Girl being the resident witch. In her THIRD appearance (Adv. 351) she says that "she's [White Witch] taught me a few spells." Why not build on that? Instead she was kept in the background for decades until the fans elected her leader and the PTB were forced to get her out of mothballs.

In only one scene that I can remember PG acted like the Vision and partially solidified while phasing thru a monster I believe it was. She thinks "I've been meaning to try this for quite some time." I think it was in that awful Circus of Death story. Why was this never done again? When she was a ghost she could disable electronics a la Kitty Pryde. But again, that reboot is history now.

Duo Damsel has been upgraded, but I want an explanation for it. Not just "something weird happened."

Matter Eater Lad and Invisible Kid could use upgrades too. Not sure what would be a logical extension of their powers, other than ME lad firing a ray from his mouth as a result of eating the miracle machine perhaps. Maybe IK could use that ability to see into and travel between dimensions he's used a couple of times to simulate teleporting.

jimgallagher wrote:

[snip]

Quote

...Matter Eater Lad and Invisible Kid could use upgrades too. Not sure what would be a logical extension of their powers...

Over at That Other Company, they upgraded Susan Storm-Richards by having her generate invisible force fields (and simple objects, as well); also, I believe she gained the ability to sometimes turn objects and other people temporarily invisible.

Frankly, the first character that comes to mind when I think "needs an upgrade/diversification of some kind" is Dawnstar.

I wish they'd just lose Dawnstar. She's never appealed to me and I've always maintained that Dream girl, Saturn Girl, or some tracking device on the ships could be used to track anything that needed tracking. Not to mention the several members with super senses. And they wouldn't be limited to tracking in space only.

She's awfully haughty for someone with such limited abilities IMHO. And if she says "path" one more time I think I'll puke.

Eh. I hate to see any character just killed off or tossed on the scrap heap. And it's okay that not every character is cuddly and sweet 100% of the time. I just want her to be a better combatant or... something other than just the tracker whose powers always peter out just at the moment they'd be most helpful.

And I'll hate that stupid Cosmo Girl get-up until the day I die.

Well, there is that panel in SECRETS OF THE LEGION #1 which clearly shows Imra's mother having TK so it could be a hereditary trait which Saturn Girl eventually developed...

On the one hand, I totally agree. On the other hand, I'd be even more pleased if they worked with what they had much more effectively than they have in the past.

Threeboot Dream Girl kicked ass, without being turned into Dream or given new powers. A subtle expansion of her powers, perhaps allowing her to sense the past of an area, in addition to the future, or to detect temporal fluctuations (perhaps making her immune to the pretty much constant revisions and reboots and retcons going on, as she is the one that, like Layla Miller, remembers all of the alternate stuff that has happened), could be neat, without significantly changing her powerset or her 'theme.'

Similarly, I'd rather see Shadow Lass's abilities further defined around absorbing and negating energy, allowing her to block or dampen energy fields, defend against energy weapons, perhaps even drain and stall vehicles, etc. An innate defensive use of that same ability might make her highly resistant to damage from energy weapons (but be of no help at all against shrapnel, face-punching or whatever, explaining her continuing focus on melee combat / martial arts, as she may be laser resistant, but she can still get bonked with a stick!). Darkforce powers are way cool, but they are pretty much a rip off of the force constructs that Green Lanterns already do, and Marvel has already cornered that niche with Darkstar, Cloak, Blackout, etc, etc. so I'd rather see something that derives from her light-nullifying darkfields, without copying another character.

Phantom Girl is pretty cool as is, being the only Legionnaire who can legitimately claim to be even more 'invulnerable' than Superboy or Mon-El, since stuff that can kill them goes right through her like Montezuma's Revenge. I do like the idea of her being able to partially solidify within someone, not to do the 'Vision' trick, because that only works for him because he's a robot. What she could do, perhaps, is interfere with blood flow, or disrupt bodily functions by blocking nervous signals, or even knock someone out by preventing their brain cells from being able to communicating with each other, because her hand is in the way. She wouldn't be solidifying enough to actually *hurt* them, because, to do so would also *hurt her.* She might be able to 'do the Vision thing' *once,* but she'd blow her hand off in the process, so that's pretty much a one-shot trick, and one that she'd be unlikely to use on a living target in any event, as it's not a nonlethal option...

[And Violet can do much of this as well, by shrinking down to sub-cellular size and flying into someone's body to block an artery, or block their nervous system by enlarging within their spinal cord just enough to 'crimp the wire' and prevent signal from getting through, causing them to collapse like a marionette with it's strings cut, but not inflicting any actual long-term harm, as she isn't destroying cells or tissue, just 'getting in the way' for a short time.]

One logical development of her ability to phase through matter is that she should also be able to *see* through solid matter. When she's all pale and ghostly, the rest of the material world should be all pale and ghostly to her, allowing her to see what's on the other side of that wall before she dives through it. I have no idea if she's supposed to have that limited 'X-Ray Vision' sort of power, but she really should, since it fits both the nature of her power, and the occasional graphical representation of her phantom state as being at least somewhat translucent.

They are pretty dire, all things considered.

Wildfire can also destroy *anything,* and it doesn't have to be something he can fit into his mouth (ditto Element Lad). Tenzil Kem has turned into one hell of an interesting *person,* but when he uses his powers, I cringe. How a man with no superhuman reflexes is supposed to cross 10 meters and bite a gun in half *faster than the bad-guy can pull the trigger and blow a hole in his chest,* I just do not get. How a man with a mouth three inches across at maximum extension can bite through a six foot door or a spaceship hull or any of the other ridiculous flat surfaces he's been shown chomping holes in is beyond me. Too many times, he's portrayed doing flat-out impossible things to 'make him look cool' (or just 'useful') and that's kinda insulting to the character. If the artist and writer have to cheat to make him look anything other than hapless, maybe he needs to go back to the drawing board (or, back into politics, celebrity life and / or cooking). I think Tenzil Kem would make a great supporting character, filling a Gigi, Shvaugn, Gym'll, Brande style role, but as a Legionnaire, he's pretty silly, and every writer/artist contortion to make him appear effective is just, IMO, kinda embarassing to read, as if a scene starring Batman, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Green Arrow and Karate Kid kicking butt was suddenly interrupted by the arrival of Captain Carrot and the Zoo Crew.

As for Invisible Jacques, Sensor *and* Imra can make other people not only fail to see them, but fail to see the entire team, or see the entire world differently, and Cham and Shrinking Violet are even better at going unseen, and can additionally sneak into places where Jacques can't fit, meaning that, for his very specific role on the team, there are at least four Legionnaires who can dance around him singing 'Anything you can do, I can do better!'

It would probably be better to expand Phantom Girl to allow her to go past 'translucent' to 'invisible' and just send Jacques into retirement to raise his little sister or something.

IMO, unlike Tenzil, he's not even interesting in his own right. (Danielle, on the other hand, is pretty cool, and I'd be delighted to see her at the Academy, perhaps using an old-school codename like 'Robot Master!')

Interesting ideas, Set. You're right about ME Lad. It is pretty much a joke to think he can really contribute in a fight, which is why I suggested a ray from his mouth to keep with his oral theme.

The fact that he's consumed the miracle machine could make him powerful on a cosmic level, but that would be pretty hard to SWALLOW, turning him from a useless joke to a supreme being. Maybe a decent writer could handle it well though.

I never bought the Secrets series because I didn't like the art, so I didn't know about Imra's mom being a TK. I just don't want Imra turned into a clone of Jean Grey.

a female having TK and telepathy doesn't automatically make a Jean Grey. Imra grew up in a complete society of psi-adepts - not merely under the tutelage on one guy who himself was learnin as he went.

Even if Imra does have TK, it's an easy sidestep to avoid Grey Syndrome.

[snip]

Set wrote:

Quote

...As for Invisible Jacques, Sensor *and* Imra can make other people not only fail to see them, but fail to see the entire team, or see the entire world differently, and Cham and Shrinking Violet are even better at going unseen, and can additionally sneak into places where Jacques can't fit, meaning that, for his very specific role on the team, there are at least four Legionnaires who can dance around him singing 'Anything you can do, I can do better!'...

Eh. Following that logic, you don't really need Superboy, Mon-El, Blok, and Ultra Boy all on the same team, either.

Seriously, like three-quarters of the team has powers that are either redundant or silly if you think too much about them.

Anyway, I have now read this issue (thanks to the generous assistance of a fellow Legion Worlder!) and will post my comments later today!

Now that I think about it, if Jacques' powers included the sort of "universal" invisibility that Lemnos had in Threeboot, he'd be pretty damn formidable. Yeah, I know. Everyone makes fun of Threeboot, but in a society where technology makes it impossible for people to have true anonymity, making tech unable to see or "remember" you at all would be a pretty useful skill.

That page also describes her powers as 'ESP' and not simply telepathy. ESP is used in parapsych studies as an umbrella term for both clairvoyance and telepathy. It's kind of funny that the page describes her in text as having a power she's never used (clairvoyance) and shows her mom using telekinesis. It's like 'random psychic crap!' is the Titanian super-power...

To mash up the 'Tenzil eats the Miracle Machine and gets new powers' idea with his own unique nature, perhaps he has developed the ability to create stuff within his stomach, and has to burp them up? He's able to create anything he can fit in his mouth!

"We need a new flight ring for this member being deputized in the heat of battle!"

URP. "Here ya go." <wipes shiny new ring off on shirt>

[First person to suggest changing his name to Matter-Burper Lad gets a finger bitten off!]

Such a character could be amazingly fun to write as a member of a hero team. The other heroes would never remember that he was there, and he'd constantly have to deal with stuff like automatic doors not opening for him, or the Legion Cruiser taking off without him, since nobody would ever remember that they even had a member named 'Amnesia Lad,' let alone wait for him to get on board. He'd wear a Flight Ring that would be officially logged as 'missing or stolen,' because nobody would remember him earning it. He'd show up in the middle of fight scenes and help surprise villains (who didn't know he existed either) and the Legion would 'meet the new guy' and thank him for his help, and, two panels later, have forgotten they ever met him.

He'd have *long ago* given up on reminding people who he was, and just force a smile and shake hands with people he's met and explained his powers to a dozen times in the past...

He'd be all alone in the Legion Headquarters, people bustling around, talking, making friends, getting into arguments, and he'd be like a ghost, wandering around, always watching the lives of the others, but never truly being part of those lives. He'd have to change quarters every now and then, as guests or new members would be assigned to the 'empty quarters' he is, essentially, squatting in, and he'd be used to living a minimalized life, with his possessions hidden away, so that they don't get discovered and thrown out or something.

I love this character already. He'd sit around during meetings (having overheard there was going to be a meeting on his Flight Ring, since nobody would think to actually tell him specifically) and make snarky comments or silly faces or add his own editorial commentary, since nobody would hear him. Every now and then, he'd sneak a little bit of input in by tapping on someone's keyboard and making it look like their elbow hit it or something, calling up information that he thinks is relevant and that the team is missing. (Which could be funny if he picks a particular teammate to do this to, and the other Legionnaries begin to question how Jo always seems to be able to call up some useful information on his pad that the others hadn't considered yet, despite appearing to be asleep at the meeting again...)

A year or so into the comic, he could be so jaded by the nature of his powers that after he appears out of nowhere and surprises another villain, and the surprised Legionnaires ask who he is (for the dozenth time) he just throws a hand up and walks away, fading into invisibility as he does so.

Sometime after that, a member of the team could either deduce his presence, and they could have a 'hunt for the ghost in the HQ' or whatever. Could be Brainy, could be Imra, more resistant to his mental amnesia effect, could be Tinya, already partially 'not-there' herself, could be Cham, through good old-fashioned sleuthing. In either event, they might design a machine that allows them to temporarily remember him, and he gets to actually meet them and feel like a member of the team for a short time before something happens and the machine breaks, and he's forgotten again (and, since the Legionnaire who designed the machine has forgotten why he needed it, we see Brainy at the end deleting a file, wondering why he even had a schematic for such a device, since it obviously 'didn't do anything,' leaving Amnesia Lad once again the forgotten Legionnaire!).

Both telepathy and ESP have kind of changed their meaning over time. Both have been pretty much used as umbrella terms for "random psychic crap" at one time or another. Hence Telepathy Man of the Super-Companions (who is a telekinetic) and Esper Lass (who is primarily a telepath).

Very true.

My parapsych pet peeve is the attempted change of telekinesis to 'psychokinesis.' Gosh, why not change telepathy to 'psychopathy?'

"What's your power, Titan Lad?"

"Psychopathy!"

"Ah, you have the wrong room. Fatal Five tryouts are third door on the left."

Dude. I kinda went along with all this for shits and giggles. Even went so far as to ask Paul about it on his Facebook! But this...

THIS is the effin' <span style="font-size: 25px;">smoking gun</span>, fellow Legionites!!!

*GASP!*

Yeah, I know, right? Here's a nice sopha if ya feel faint! (Now, WHERE's that sopha graemlin? )

We're waiting, Ester! (Now, WHERE'S that foot-pattin' graemlin? )

Of course, we know he's gonna hate it....

Well, I didn't exactly hate it, but I can't say I particularly liked it, either.

My thoughts (many of which echo others in this thread):

--First off, a general point. If I'd been handed this comic with no credits and no knowledge of who it was by, I really don't think I would've guessed that it was a Levitz-written Legion issue. Nor would I have necessarily guessed that this was any kind of continuation of the Legion that Levitz wrote. In fact, except for the Lad/Lass names and a few cast members, it felt more like a possible future of the reboot era than the preboot era.

--I absolutely hate the whole xenophobia background. From the very beginning, with the whole "representing diversity, unity, and tolerance" thing grafted into the team's mission statement, it felt wrong.

--I didn't really get the Earth Man "torture" scenes. Doesn't Earth Man's power drain off after a certain amount of time? What's the point of (apparently painfully) draining off his powers artificially?

--The portrayal of S.P.'s seemed a bit weird. In the prison, you've got the one guard who's apparently pro-torture and the other one who's apparently sympathetic to the xenophobes? The interaction between the Legionnaires and the S.P.'s reminded me a lot of Waid's run.

--So... Brainy. This doesn't seem at all like the Brainy of v3, who'd gained humility with experience over the years. I agree with those who have said that he seems borderline insane in this issue (not somewhere that I want to see him go again).

--The whole Sodam Yat scene is incredibly goofy. I thought so when I saw the preview, but even reading the story itself, I couldn't help but crack-up on that page!

--It did kind of irritate me that with an extra-sized book, only a handful of Legionnaires actually got significant screen time.

--Dawnstar. Seriously, you've just finished an incomplete evacuation of a world on which millions and millions of people are about to die, and you think it's appropriate to be bragging about how much faster you are than the Legion cruiser? Not that I remember her being particularly likeable, but this is ridiculous.

--Saturn Girl. Just about every panel she was in completely rocked. Loved the incorporation of Aven. Definitely interested in the mystery of what happened to the twins. There were certainly quite a few moments when reading her flying across the planet where things just really felt... right.

So, er, this probably came off as a bit more negative than my reaction actually was. Remember that Saturn Girl was in the book quite a bit!

All in all, I guess the basic point is that the issue was okay, but I still don't feel the urgent need to interrupt my current non-comic buying status and run out to pick up the next issue.

This bit bugged me. It felt like 'false equivalence.'

And in this case, it goes one step further, in making the choice between the pro-bigotry candidate and the pro-torture candidate!

Gosh, that's hardly 'balanced,' where the pro-taking candy from babies candidate and the pro-necrophilia candidate and the pro-Hitler candidate?

So it's okay that we don't like Earth-Man, 'cause he's all murderous and racist and stuff, but that means we're on the side of the sadistic torturer? Nice.

Imma go off and kick a puppy now. 'Cause that's what us anti-killer-bigots do, right? There's no 'right choice,' it's just 'bad guys' and 'worse guys.'

I'm sure that wasn't the intent of the scene, but it seems like someone worked awful hard to continue the 'all Earth people are dicks, and you suck if you agree with *any* of them' presentation started in the Lightning Saga.

I get that no one position should be 100% right, and it's more dramatic to have some uncomfortable positions on both sides, but this felt a little over the top.

I don't think so.

I've enjoyed reading the overwhelmingly positive comments on this thread, but they remind me that what fans of the Legion like about this series isn't what I like (or would like to see).

Honestly, I'm not sure if people are so ga-ga over Levitz's return to the Legion that they would accept a phone book if it were written by him, or if LSH # 1 represents some sort of culmination in the direction DCU has been heading, and people are just used to it. In any case, I don't see anything remotely resembling or continuing from Levitz's previous era.

I've been away too long . . . or maybe not long enough.

I thought Levitz was being topical by alluding to current debates about the torture of prisoners at Guantanamo Bay. I don't think we're supposed to see either the torturer or the xenophobe SP officer as good guys. They are just there to illustrate the sharply divided and passionate views people have over the issue of torture of prisoners.

I don't call Saturn Girl and/or her mother using TK exactly ONCE in over 50 years a smoking gun. I call it a mistake. Night Girl and Phantom Girl were each ONCE shown using x-ray vision. I call those mistakes too. Timber Wolf was ONCE said to have a "healing factor." I also call that a mistake. Mekt and Garth were ONCE depicted as twins. Also a mistake. Just because something has appeared in print one time ever doesn't mean it has to be accepted as gospel or canon.

Yeah, I think something like that is what Levitz was trying to do, but on top of the Legionnaires-storming-into-the-S.P.-office scene, it really kind of put the Sci Cops in an unfortunately bad light.

It connects to a criticism that I believe you made in your review, which is that almost no one in this book comes off as particularly likeable (with the exceptions of Saturn Girl and the soon-dead Usalus).

Better late than never.

YAY
- Gigi Cuisimano. I liked the way she shouted down Cosmic Boy. She's my kind of girl.
- Sun Boy's new costume makes my skin tingle (oh, shut up, Imra). Maybe Gigi will notice and be tempted to reignite their brief romance. Come on, Gigi, give him another chance!. You may be the only person alive who can convince Dirk too stop dyeing his hair blonde. The brief but ominous Sun Boy/Earth Man interaction was pretty good.
- Harmonia Li, Woman of Mystery. Why was she the only scientist to survive The Giant Hand? Is she really a pre-cog? The mom of Rond Vidar's son? Time will tell, but she looks capable of holding her own in a shouting match with Brainiac 5, which is no small talent in itself.
- Saturn Girl firing up the Time Sphere to go ..where? ... when? She has no idea. It was a leap-of-faith decision that's atypical of Imra, which puts it into the Yay category.
- Earth Man getting the GL ring ought to botch up Brainy's plan to keep him on a leash. Heh!

MEH
- Yeah, Earth Man is a royal jerkwad but I don't object to him or any other "villain" joining the team if it challenges the anal moral rectitude of Cosmic Boy and his apostles or drives Sun Boy to drink. What I object to are the story contrivances that put him there. If the 3boot proved anything, it's that there aren't a great many Legion readers who delight in having political plot devices shoved down their throats.
- Brainy's "Sauron" moment was funny, and I usually like my Coluans with a little touch of evil, but his performance here was definitely off-key.
- More Dawnstar and Ultra Boy. YAWN.
- A Big Bad with some sort of time-related powers? Gee, that's new!
- The Ranzz tykes. Levitz provides a good explanation for their long absence, but having the boys she hasn't seen in months "dumped on" her is so burdensome to Imra, maybe they're better off lost in the timestream. And by the looks of them, I say they're really Dirk's kids anyway!
- I have nothing intelligent to add to the Imra TK debate. I really don't care.
- Dyogene. Visually he's okay for a bug person but his dialogue is dreadful. Maybe he's been hanging out with Zymr a little too much..
- Dumb and dumberer red-shirt scientists. Pffft.
- Titan's final hours weren't as entertaining as the evacuation of Xenn way back in 1964, let alone the destruction of other planets (Trom, Orando) in previous versions of the Legion. To be fair, I think it was just the opening salvo in a bigger crisis, but its emotional weight was practically nil. The dying moment of an old lady whose face we never saw, a cat and a mayfly are not the stuff of epic tragedy. Imra's whole world didn't die, just the rock her people were living on. Now they're Earth's problem, and another cobblestone set in the road to Dystopia - a place where I don't wanna go.
- The art isn't hard on the eyes, and Cinar and his partners (inker, colorist) deserve props for completing 39 pages without any serious gaffs ... but it just doesn't excite me. Maybe I'll look upon it more favorably if Mr. Cinar makes haste in redesigning the fugly Gary Frank costumes.


WTH?
- I'm more confused than ever about the Xenophobia thing. In this issue, Levitz reverses Geoff Johns "aliens who just coincidentally happen to look human" claptrap with his reference to Legion worlds (he names Tharr, Braal and Winath as examples) "seeded by humans" who adapted to their new environments. The idea is sound enough (for fictional science) but it raises more questions than it answers. I can easily be convinced that Earthlings might fear and loathe telepaths from Titan, magical types from Orando or Naltor, and blue warrior people from Talok VIII, be they human or not. But why exactly are they persecuting their friendly farmer cousins from Winath and other eligible members of their "Master Race" who resemble the human norm more closely than mutant Indians with wings or wierdo horror-flick rejects like Tusker and Eyeful Ethel? I didn't read the Mon-El/bottle cities stories, nor do I care to, so if there's something crucial I missed, pleas clue me in.


NAY
- Sodom Yat. No wonder he's all alone in Greenland - the Guardians of Oa must have committed suicide rather than listen to him wailing and whining for a thousand years.
- Imra's secrets. Jumpin' geezus, lady, gimme a break! Her complaint against her hubby was trite and hypocritical. Garth's stupidest mistake in his whole fictional life, besides marrying Imra, was neglecting to kick *her* for dumping him on the brink of a nervous breakdown, and running off to the frozen asteroid to mind-boink Timber Wolf. (See the parallels?) I'd buy a tabloid-sized divorce special in a minute, but this just looks like an excuse for Levitz to torture readers with the the obnoxious founder triangle - a shabby soap opera cliché if I ever saw one.
- Speculative Nay: If that *is* Lydda in bed with Brek, her life has truly tanked.
- "Inaccurate reporting" and "chronicler's errors", eh? Leave the old Silver Age Legion stories alone, godddamit. It goes without saying, I'm steering clear of Levitz's new Adventure run.
- Speaking of chronicler's errors, Dr. Aven was never so popular in the post-0 Hour Legion he deserves a special transfer to Levitz3. For the record, original Saturn Girl's mentor was Professor Vndaar (Superboy & LSH #236 written by Paul Whatshisname.) Trivia, maybe, but Vndaar was actually more interesting than Aven in that he seemed to have an unhealthy affection for his favorite girl student. So why arbitrarily redact the chronicle for the sake of an Easter Egg? This has Geoff Johns fingerprints all over it.

Final verdict - the Mehs have it, so I'm grading it "B" for the artwork and "C" for the writing and premise. Levitz3 reads like exactly what it is - a spinoff of the Johnsboot instead of a sequel to Levitz2 --- which doesn't fill me with any warm and giddy feelings. The writing was without question more mature than the infantile fanboy drivel delivered by Johns but all things considered, Legion #1 compares poorly to the other creative team debuts still fresh in my memory -- Shooter/Manapul 2008, Waid/Kitson 2004 and DNA/Coipel 2000. Other than a few intriguing threads Levitz may yet weave into a story I want to read, this issue wasn't much fun. It was almost a chore to finish.

But the bald truth is what I, you and we think obviously doesn't matter a great deal to DC or even to Levitz, who said old fans probably won't like what he's going to do. Only time will tell the reaction of the hypothetical new readers this reboot so desperately needs if it's to avoid the sorry fate of its predecessors. I don't see much excitement talk outside the usual fora by the usual voices, though. The fact DC didn't offer a ring with this issue (when the cover depicts two of 'em) telegraphs the message they're not sure of its long term investment value, either. And so the vicious cycle begins anew.

Yay, Tromium is back!

Tromium, as always, you space-rock!

[snip]

That sounds pretty close to Reboot Jacques. To be clear, I don't think we need another Tragic Hero, especially not one who's a POC, given how Geoff Johns seems to be torturing and/or bumping them off lately. I'd want to see that kind of power be small-scale and controllable.

As a solo "hero" in a Vertigo-esque story, your outline would be great though.

[snip]

Mostly I'm just happy that for once, I get to offer an original opinion on a new publication that's right in front of me. It's been long overdue.

I just want to hang around long to see if there are a few respectable issues as the Big Lantern Events die down, and before Whatever The Next Big Event I Won't Care About gets off the ground.

<span style="font-size: 11px;">(I also want a million dollars. And a pony.) </span>

I'm not sure if this second sentence also refers to the stuff I was talking about, or is just an unrelated thought...

I also don't want any 'Tragic Heroes,' which is I presented a variation on Jacques that could be *fun,* with the snark and the mocking of his teammates behind their backs and running around crashing in the HQ without the team really ever knowing whose responsible for the stuff they sometimes find in supposedly empty rooms.

He might even end up reminiscent of the Lazlo character from the ancient movie Real Genius, a smart guy who lives inside the walls of a college and nobody knows that he never left after he graduated a decade or so ago...

Well, I don't mind a little snark, but that's what seems to have soured a lot of people on Threeboot, yes?

I guess? I never heard the threeboot described as snarky, so much as people complaining about the 'youth movement' anvils and political pseudo-philosophy...

I don't remember much snark at all in the threeboot. More grumpy old people acting curmudgeonly, really (particularly Brain, Cos and Cham, although Dirk and Garth seemed humorless and overly serious as well), which is probably the opposite of what Waid was attempting to portray with a 'youth movement...'

I'm not for Jacques having a Lemnos-level power boost, however, I'd like it very much if Jacques' invisibility were not so easily penetrated. Basically, he should be pretty much undetectable when he uses his powers. He should leave no heat signatures, fool motion detectors and maybe even leave no footprints (not sure about that). Maybe he could even fool magic spells designed to detect intruders.

It's a minor upgrade in a way but at least makes him the most stealthy Legionnaire, which is what he should be. Maybe a downside would be that he's inaudible and can't use the telepathic plugs and wireless communication devices while invisible. At least the primary problem of his being easily discovered too often would be solved.

Here\'s a link to a Paul Levitz interview that ran in my local newspaper about a week ago.
No new info really, but it was nice to see the cover of Legion #1 in my daily paper!!

The best part of this issue was that it just picks up and GOES. No beating around the bush, no long exposition on who they are or why, long-time reader or no, if you've been following the Legion any for the last 2-3 years, this issue just rolls with it.

His little essay at issue's end says it all. He appears to be having fun writing these characters again and to me, it showed on every page of this issue.

I very much enjoyed this first issue. It gets going quickly and never lets up. It has cataclysmic events and powerful characterization. The destruction of Titan harkens back to that great story where the Legion evacuates a planet threatened by the Fatal Five. Saturn Girl is a panel hog (what a surprise), but when she is written this well, who cares? I felt like I was reading about a real person, estranged from her husband, straining under the responsibility of parenthood and reaching back for her authentic, private self. She is determined, relentless, never gives up, in the face of the loss of her homeworld, she stays focused on finding her sons. That's iron butt Imra if I ever saw her, and she was glorious. What I LIKE about the Legion is that the large cast actually allows for more well-rounded characters. No character has to be the perfect hero. It should be a true ensemble, and this was. The other perfect scenes -- Brainy striding insouciant (thanks, Matt Fraction!) through the destruction of Titan inside his force field. Brilliant. It seems obvious, but how often have we seen the supremely confident Brainiac 5 display the kind of fearlessness you would expect from an impenetrable force shield? Sun Boy and Cosmic Boy were good supporting players here. Paul proves himself again the master at relating key facts (Sun Boy's torture/exploitation by Earth Man) through dialogue. The events with Earth Man, Sodom Yat and the GLC are mysterious, which is good, especially if the unexpected twists keep coming (as Earth Man's recruitment to the GLC was).

This was like reading an episode of "Lost" in many ways -- running start, surprising twists, big events, a focus on strong character interraction. Keep it the good work, guys! Oh, and never, EVER draw Ultra Boy again with the page boy haircut! I am unanimous on this!

Imra couldnt be Phoenix even if she tried...Phoenix power levels are on a cosmic (god) scale. Imra's just Marvel Girl with more leadership ability and no fainting.

My sense of the Imra TK thing is that it's a combination of artistic flourishes and our imaginations. When Imra enters the school(?), she kicks the window in with her knee while trying to contact the twins telepathically (hence the fingers to temples). I think you can come to similar non-TK interpretations for all the other panels.

It's also VERY possible that Yildiray is a little sketchy on what Imra can and can't do, and that the details of these panels didn't come up between the editor, Paul and Yildiray.

The one that made me think twice was the small panel where Imra is helping people at risk of being crushed by a falling wall. An alternative, non-TK explanation for this panel is that Imra is using her mental strength and willpower to use her flight ring to slow the crumbling wall and give the civilians time to escape.

I have a feeling that, at some point, Paul will lay this controversey to rest.

I know I didn't use smilies when I presented the page as a "smoking gun", but really, this is all the biggest non-issue to me in the world right now. I LOVE, however, how we Legion fans dissect each issue for stuff like this. So I play along for fun, add a little fuel to the fire and bug Paul about it on his Facebook for shits and giggles!

I guess I'm just a wee sadist!

heh!

Good for you, Otie!

I for one find the anal continuity-cop syndrome to be rather tedious.

let the story unfold! if it was a one-off error, so what? if it was an accidental beginning of something, let's see where it goes - without shouting "Jean Grey!" left, right and center.

I agree.
And every time a point is backed up with a continuity story, it's called a mistake or a bad story that should be dumped from existence.
sigh

How is one story more valid than another?
And what difference does it make, anyway?

This ISN'T the original Legion.
There are going to be more changes.
Geoff made some.
Robinson made some.
Paul has already made some.

The idea is to STOP the inaccessable continuity stuff, permanently.
The idea that every word and action from 30, 40 or 50 years ago has to be followed without fail or objection is just silly.

I'm glad Imra is an orphan now.
I miss her reboot family, but I knew they wouldn't be here, anyway.

By making her an orphan, when we clearly saw her parents before, tells us clearly that this is a slightly different Legion and continuity nit-picking is a sham.

I'm done.

Oh, and however it happened, the idea of Imra with TK is fun.
Whether it is built upon or not.
To me.

agreed. keeping limits on LSH powers can be easier for some writers, but a good writer can make development of powers work. I liked Reboot Tom's ability to use heaviness and lightness, rather than the either-or compartmentalization of original or Threeboot Tom and Ayla; in imaginative hands it worked quite well. (I also liked giant Reboot Vi, but I realize I'm in a minority on that).

Development of powers can make for interesting stories (I loved "War Makes Us Weapons" in Legion Worlds, for instance). And if it leads to out-of-control power escalation, a writer can add repercussions without going all Phoenix.

I don't necessarily mind Imra having TK (I like the cartoon version, for example), I just don't think it's necessary, and it kind of makes Tellus even more redundant.

I don't know if this is in reply to me or not, but I referred to her as Jean Grey, not Phoenix.

I know Imra ain't all THAT!

Oh, I agree. I'm not trying to get personal or argumentative about it. Just presenting my point of view and trying to back it up with what I consider to be canon. Not that canon means that much anymore but still . . .

I think even if Saturn Girl turns out to be a telekinetic in this "new" Legion that power won't come anywhere close to approaching Jean Grey's yet alone Phoenix's for that matter.
I think Paul might write the TK (if it is in fact TK) as just an "add-on" to the powers we're used to seeing from Imra.

One thing funny yet tragic that will come out of Imra having TK is that eventually Tellus will get killed off and we can place bets on Legion World on when it will happen.

Sad yes, but it will at least make for two good threads! (One for the betting, the second for the subsequent condemnation of the betting posters when Tellus actually dies).

And, depending on the manner of death, we can revive the "Ways to Prepare Tellus" thread!

Saturn Girl having TK is a win-win situation all around!

And then I can blame all the posters who said Imra had TK for killing Tellus even though I secretly know that is a pretty unfair accusation!

One of the best things about Tellus is that he carries his own methane supply with him -- he's the main course and the gas grill, all in one!

Why does LARDLAD hate Tellus?

"Imra has TK" = "I want to see Tellus dead"

Hating Tellus = hating diversity in the Legion = closet racist

Wanting someone dead = murderous killer

Well, I'm sad that so many posters on this board are racists and murderers!

If Geoff Johns had written the scene in question, cries of rascism would be all over the internet!

No! I just love grilled fish!

heh!

I don't think a TK Imra invalidates Tellus, anymore than Garth and Ayla both having lightning powers invalidate each other, or the -Els invalidate each other.

Imra and Tellus can still have plenty of differences. This isn't the 70s, with writers who cannot see beyond a Legionnaire's power.

Is it too soon to start the 'save Tellus' letter-writing campaign or the proliferation of 'bring back Tellus as a Black Lantern' threads?

I would suggest sending thousands of frozen fishsticks to the DC offices to protest the death of Tellus, but I'm pretty sure that all of that rotting food might constitute a biological terrorist attack...

Okay, okay...one time he and I were on this diplomatic mission, and I accidentally let an SBD go. All Mr. Methane-breather had to do was claim his helmet had a leak to avoid a major diplomatic incident, but NOOOOOOO! "I am sorry, Lard Lad, but nothing I breathe could ever smell so putrid!", he teeped.

Fishy bastard!

I'm going to de-lurk again for my second post in a day...

I've been reading the LSH since Superboy #199 in 1973 (the ONLY feature I've read continuously) and I've enjoyed all three (or four) Legions to one extent or another. And I've read several debut issues for the LSH...

Not only did I thoroughly enjoy Legion of Super-Heroes v6 #1, I don't think I've enjoyed another comic as thoroughly all year. And I think I'd rate it as the best Legion debut issue yet (for an ongoing series).

Some observations:

Coming just two weeks after the destruction of New Krypton in War of the Supermen #1, LSH #1 depicted the destruction of a world in a way that's much more palatable. Titan's destruction actually took some time, the heroes had a chance to evacuate much of the population and save lives, and for once, no major supervillain was responsible.

I really enjoyed the focus on a small number of Legionnaires. I've always enjoyed Legion stories like that. Some good characterization of both Imra and Brainy. Maybe not completely consistent with what's gone before (especially in Brainy's case), but I still got a kick out of it.

I'm bemused by the comments about Saturn Girl's apparent TK. The thought never occurred to me when I was reading. Instead, I was more struck by the reference to Garth's "folks". I still vividly recall them hitting an asteroid back in Superboy #207.

Thoroughly primed by this issue, I'm looking forward to the Legion in LSH and Superboy(!) and the Legion in Adventure Comics in the coming months.

Welcome home, Mr. Levitz!

Feel free to de-lurk more often, Spiderboy!!

Agreed! We need a monthly review from you at the very least!

It sounds like Imra lost parents and Garth gained some.
Works for me, since parents don't usually make much of an impact on the Legion.
Well, not the original Legion, anyway.
Go Levitz!

And I love Tellus.
He is SO different from Imra, it's astounding to me that anyone would compare them in any way.
They both have TP and it's never mattered.
If they both had TP AND TK, no difference to me.
They're still worlds apart!

The addition to Imra might actually be good for Tellus' development.
Especially if the writers think that he needs something added to make him 'valid' in the Legion.

Like 2 telepaths with TK would somehow be a bad thing.

If I were the Legion, I'd want 5 or 6, just like I'd want 5 or 6 heavy hitters and 5 or 6 with energy powers and . . .

Even though I still rate LoSH #1 as just 'above average' as far as stories go - damn if it hasn't gotten me absolutely jonesing to read the next issue already!

It feels great to be super-excited about the ongoing adventures of my favourite team again!

Had Saturn Girl "retired" from the Legion when Tellus was admitted? I seem to remember the founders retiring, but can't remember if it happened before or after Tellus's recruitment. Anyway, having a telepath is pretty darned handy, so it can't hurt to have 2 around. Just don't send them both on a suicide mission where they get stranded without food on an ansteroid...

Saturn Girl retired before Tellus joined (he won out over Mentalla as her "replacement"), but she rejoined later on in v3.

Yeah, she rejoined at the close of the Universo Project.

Absolutely.

At least twice a month OK? There are two Legion books (or is that one Legion and one Superboy/Legion?), so perhaps at least that often.

One other observation regarding LSH #1:

I recently completed a (re-)read of the Superboy/Legion series and the Baxter series (along with various stand-alone issues and mini-series), which I followed up with a reread of the Lightning Saga, Superman and the LSH, Legion of Three Worlds, and the first several issues of the revived Adventure Comics.

Each time Levitz took the original S/LSH series, first in #225 and then in #284, I was impressed again with how he picked up existing plot threads and ran with them, all the while laying down his own plot threads in the process. He was much better (and far more experienced) at doing so in #284 than in #225, and I think he was at least as good, if not better, in LSH #1. That was perhaps the single best part of this issue. But I also think that anyone who has read only the recent stories (especially Superman and the Legion and L3W) could pick up this issue without getting lost.

And also count me as one who liked Yildiray Cinar's artwork quite a bit.

Yilday Cinar's work better here than in his stint on Teen Titans. I'm still on the fence, I want to see more of what he can do. Let's see him draw some of the less human aspects of the Legion, then I'll start praising him.

I'll echo what some others are saying and point out how much better and more detailed any of Cinar's uninked pencils looked than those inked by Wayne Faucher in the finished product. Faucher's generally a solid inker, but it certainly seems he's doing Cinar an injustice and leaving out too much of the fine, exquisite detail I see in the pencils.

^Agree.

I also feel like Faucher 'softened' up some of the pencils as well. That's within an inker's judgment but I don't think it did Cinar any justice. The uninked pencils looked very sharp.

Not just sharp--they were GORGEOUS! I was very disappointed in the final product after having seen the pencils! It's like Faucher was trying to make Cinar's pencils look like Alan Davis's or something. The inker's job is to make Yildiray Cinar's art look like Yildiray Cinar's art! I don't want to bang on Wayne Faucher, but from what I've seen, I feel pretty strongly about this.

Finally got to read it - and I would give it four stars out of five.

Levitz did manage to tell a good story, he gave us three important plotlines to work with (Titans destruction by tampering with time - again, Earth Man becoming Green Lantern and Legionnaire, Imras children being abducted) and introduced the Legion to a larger audience by focussing on a smaller group of heroes. Lots of time to get to the other heroes like Jacques, Brek, Wildfire, Violet ... The book was heavy on the action, which left me wishing for some more characterisation (something which until now, this Retroboot was not too strong with anyway). But all in all, it was a very good read. The Green Lantern elements took a surprising turn quickly, which I liked.

The artwork was solid, as was to be expected by Cinar. He is no superstar(yet), there was no eye candy to hope for. But he did a decent job.

Question about the fallen Legionnaires statues: There was Ferro Lad and Invisible Kid, but who was the third one - was it Chemical King or Karate Kid? Both going with the high collar, I was not sure about that.

All in all I am very happy with this #1, considering its extra length, after months of 8 page backup features we now are finally getting some space for the Legion to blossom. This could be the revival many of us hoped for. Thank you, Paul Levitz!

Regarding the interpretation of Saturn Girl's telekinesis... it is the panel where there's a rock apparently hovering over several fleeing Titanians, with Imra flying a few yards behind-- hand to head?

Could it be that she's telling the runners which way to run to avoid the impact of the falling rock?

The window scene-- the art *does* make it look like the window is crashing from a point that could be a result of TK... though her knee's up with glass (or whatever) shards all around it, so I think interpreting the break as caused by her padded knee the more likely one.

The third one was KK...and Levtiz has been on record recently as stating he probably would not kill Condo if he had it to do over again.

Hmmmm...


I was pretty impressed with Cinar's art and think this guy has superstar written all over him. He's already got a very nice polish and layout sense.

I firmly believe Chemical King's return is coming.

Yildiray's original pencils from Legion #1:

A little heavy-handed inking it seems.

Um, ah, when did Garth find out about Mekt possibly having a twin? Did I miss an issue or is LSH #1 the first time this has come up? Seems like Garth would go home and talk to his parents, wouldn't it? I mean where do you go to find out about a heretofore unknown sibling, you go ask Mom and Dad what happened, right.

What I'm asking is why take your kids from your parents planet and drop them off with the wife and then go scouring the universe looking for Mekt's twin? What does that accomplish? It seems to me that those circumstances, finding out that you have a grown sibling that you hadn't heard about before, would require some intense family-time WITH the wife and kids by your side. Not that I'm trying to say anything, I'm just saying, it seems to me.

Mekt, imprisoned on New Takron Galtos, claimed that he had a twin in Adventure #2, and asked Garth to find that twin. Last panel we see Garth racing off to Winath, presumably to grill his parents.

We don't know if Mekt is lying or telling the truth at this point.

Beautiful Yildiray pencils!

You would think that was a reasonable course of action but perhaps he is working off the experience of his own children where they had no real idea that Graym had a twin until some time later.

Come to think about perhaps Mekts twin is the new Validus?

Oh my God, I'm so confused now!
*groan*

For someone who comes from a planet full of people who live and die by their family connections, particularly to their twins, Garth sure does want to handle stuff alone a lot, doesn't he?

Mekt spends his life running to the sort of relationships that Garth spends his life running away from.

Seeing the pencils again, I feel the inker really kind of botched things a bit.

Garth and Ayla (and Mekt's) parents died when their space cruiser collided with an asteroid waaay back in Bates/Grell days. his "folks" that Imra mentions must be aunt's/uncle's or other relatives. given that Saturn Queen is on the next cover, i'm wondering if Mekt's "twin" is his adult, time-stream-hopping, LSV counterpart. or maybe he considers Cosmic King to be his true "twin", or maybe the whole thing is BS to lure Garth into a trap.

Those pencils are as good as or even better than much of the stuff that was published when I first started collecting in the early '80s. And far and away better than almost everything published in the Liefeld years of the '90s.

More Yildiray pencils:

Wavy-haired Tinya is soooo cute!

It's very hard to retain the spontaneous feel of pencils when you "make the crossing" to inks. I used to have the same reaction all the time in art classes, when I'd see a pencil sketch for a famous painting and I'd end up liking the sketch much more than the "real" work.

Give it some time, huh? It will probably get better. I've certainly seen much worse match-ups than this.

Great drawings!

I'd love to get the entire story in pencils, every month!
Thanks, lil'rhino for just these!

That last page just knocks my socks off!!
Brainy calmly walking thru all the destruction as the p.o.v. slowly zooms closer until you can see debris bouncing off his force shield.
Very cinematic!!

I just picked up the Variant Cover issue of LoSH#1 for cover price! at a local SF Book Store. Since I got that so cheap I also bought the 2nd Paul Levitz / Steve Lightle LoSH trade paperback.

Maybe this is just me, but it seems disrespectful to me that PG is phasing thru a fallen comrade's statue, just to razz Brainy about talking to himself (who doesn't?). In an emergency, sure, but that's clearly not the case here. It would be like walking on a loved one's grave in real world terms.

I thought it looked a bit weird, too, but I like the "ghost in the graveyard" aspect of it.

Good point. I suppose one could argue that Tinya wasn't sure where she would emerge from the wall. To me, the scene looked as if it were intended to be symbolic -- a "phantom" emerging from the statue of a dead Legionnaire -- but symbolic of what I couldn't say.

Hadn't really thought about it. I'd be inclined to say that not every culture venerates the dead in exactly the same way and leave it at that.

I'd hate it if my friends & teammates felt they couldn't phase thru my memorial statue!!
I'd want them to laugh & reminisce & feel free to be themselves!!

Probably, this was just a visual shorthand/sight-pun to illustrate the Phantom Girl ID box.

I think it'd be great if PG, in particular, and other Legionnaires, in general, did more to craft a sense of persona in their heroic guises. I think that might be the one thing missing from the LSH as superhero comic. On the other hand, their openness and the innocence behind it *has* been a differentiating trait for the comic.

Still, I think a handful of Legionnaires oughtta create images that make villains or the general public go 'whoa' whenever they appear... something more than just the celebrity-love or 'save me' pleas we normally see.

Tinya, Tas and Jacques could rock a pulpy Shadow Knows/Batman striking fear in the hearts of a cowardly lot kind of aura.

I guess it would be sort of anti-sci-fi... could the two be balanced effectively?

But the hall of dead heroes is clearly presented as a solemn, august sanctuary. Otherwise, why not show the statues in relaxed, smiling poses?

Not trying to make a big deal out of this or anything. Just a passing impression.

Jim, you make a good point, but so do cleome and rhino. People of different cultures venerate the dead differently, so Tinya might not have thought anything of it.

(And the reason it's a solemn sanctuary might have more to do with North American-earth traditions, where the Legion is based, than anything else.)

The more I think about it, I would love to believe there is something symbolic about that image. After all, any Legionnaire could have told Brainy he was muttering to himself, and he could have been anywhere besides the hall of the dead. I would love to believe there's more to it; alas, I fear that Mystery Lad is probably right: It was just a shorthand way of introducing Tinya and what she can do.

Again, not trying to make a big deal, but I'm reminded of the grove on Winath in TMK, where Garth had erected the statues of the dead from Legion HQ. Ayla and Vi approached them with reverent whispers. Totally different than Tinya's flippant attitude shown here. Different interpretations by different creators, but I like the reverent attitude better.

I'd like to see more 'personas' too.

We HAVE seen a few over the years, Sensor Girl, for one.
She was MUCH more effective, especially in her totally blank faced costume (my fav for her).
The enemy didn't know what to expect and that was a good thing, for her effectiveness and for her appeal.

Tasmia, as Umbra, was just going into something like that with her shadow ancesters joining her aura on what appeared to be a permanent basis.

I could see her costume changing for more shock value and stealth.
Especially if the shadows whispered!


That's part of the problem with wearing a bicini, imo.

I could see Lydda, Cham and Yera added to that list.
Lydda, who has her powers in shadow and even indoors, should wear a costume that provides her body with the needed lack of light, including shadowing her face and perhaps building on her owl symbol.

Brin, too.
And Jan.

Codenames that are less revealing of powers might work, as well.
That's one of the reasons I liked and advocated for updated names.
The Levitz Baxter and beyond Legion was very different and fought a very different caliber of foe than the Adventure Legion did.

And it's one of the reasons I dislike the current retrolegion having costumes from so many different eras.
THIS Legion needs their own look for their own time.
I think.

Or she never liked Karate Kid.

(That's a joke, people.)

I'm going with the different creative team approach theory rather than the scene meaning to say anything about Tinya. It would be interesting to see how a similar scene would play out on Shanghalla, though.

Yeah, I doubt it 'meant' anything.

Heck, we're still not clear if the writer 'meant anything' by having Imra, in fear for her children's lives, stop to save at least four people en route (and then, failing to save her kids, promptly go on to evacuate an entire school full of children), proving herself again and again an amazing person, an amazing *hero,* while Brainy, fretting about losing some equipment, and arguing with himself about *stuff he'd forgotten* (12th level intellects lacking photographic memories, apparently) walked at a slow deliberate pace past people being crushed, proving himself to be something far, far less than Imra...

If I wanted an in-story reason, perhaps;

1) Tinya, by Earth standards, already kind of a living ghost person, doesn't see death quite as gloomily (or take it as seriously) as others. Since she, even more than Mon-El or Superboy or Ultra Boy, is truly 'invulnerable' to the forces of the material world, and is a living example of someone whose existence is not dependent upon physical or corporeal existence, she absolutely believes in higher planes and spiritual continuance, and regards the deaths of flesh-and-blood teammates with the same sort of regrets we feel for friends and family members who move far away and who we won't see again, for a while.

[The recent resurrection (and re-death) of Karate Kid might only enhance that perception.]

2) Tinya hangs out in that room, not out of disrespect, but because Bgtzlns innately respect the non-corporeal more than the physical. While she's not a medium or anything, she still feels the presence of the lost Legionnaires in the presence of these memorials to them, and has gotten, in the eyes of some, perhaps overly comfortable / familiar with them, even speaking to them as if they were present.

These dead Legionnaires, like her, are now creatures of spirit, and stand a world apart from the rest of the Legion. She considers her friendship with them intact, even if they cannot reply to her.

3) While phasing, the material world appears translucent and 'far away' to her, and, sometimes she'll sheepishly admit, 'it all looks the same.' She was so busy looking at Brainy, that she didn't even notice what she was phasing through, since it was just 'stuff in her way.'

Afterwards, she'll notice that she walked through the men's bathroom, because of all the shouting. Oops. She was on her way to the gym, and this was the quickest way!

I like this idea. To resurrect a (seemingly) dead horse from another thread, this ties into religious/spiritual beliefs. Many spiritual traditions offer similar views about the departed.

Riiight.

Hmm... if you go with the old school explanation of Tinya's power, she doesn't really pass through things as go around them, so from her point of view what she's doing with the statue is no different than Brainy passing beside it.

As I seem to recall, Levitz has always scripted Tinya as having a few character deficits. Under his pen, Tinya tends to be a bit catty and cliquish at times, so I'm not at all suprised that we can add "irreverent" to the list. Not that this is a bad thing, mind you, because as others have observed, well-rounded characters are more interesting ones. It will be inteeresting to see, therefore, if he continues this past characterization trend with Tasmia as well.

On other hand, I was disturbed by the fact that Rokk barged into Science Police H.Q. to yell at GiGi and even misuse his power in a fit of pique. For one thing, I think that this is an appaulling lapse for a man of his maturity and experience. Secondly, I suppose that I've come to prefer the way that he's been depicted for some time now: as a rational and committed team leader who's good at working with others.

[snip]

Well, there's nothing inherently "anti-sci-fi" about it, as you can find utopias and dystopias and every gradation in between under the banner of "sci-fi."

I still prefer masked heroes as the exception rather than the rule. I'd rather see the book maintain some distinctive character rather than end up like every other hero book out there.

Is there a difference between having a persona and having a secret identity? As I read Mystery Lad's post, he is merely suggesting that some Legionnaires behave differently in public than they do in private. For example, Tinya could use her phantom-like powers to "strike terror" into the hearts of criminals, but, when off duty, she's all sweetness and kindness (okay, sweetness and cattiness).

It's a worthy idea, but, with so many Legionnaires to keep track of, it might confuse the reader (or force the writer to rely on heavy exposition) if the Legionnaires started exhibiting inconsistent personality traits.

Oh, okay.

I guess I've always just assumed that some characters have better "company manners" than others. Never really thought of it as something to be specifically focused on before, though.

Now that I think about it, though, cartoon-'verse Tinya's finest hour (or one of them) was when she played diplomat on Sorcerer's World; showing skills quite apart from her regular persona. It actually made her my favorite of all the versions I've seen.

I liked diplomat Tinya, too.

This reminds me of the discussion over Robin in my Titans Retro Review thread . Was Dick Grayson the pun-happy kid sidekick of Batman or the serious leader of the Teen Titans? There's no reason he couldn't be both. He just exhibited different sides of his personality depending on who he was associating with and what his role required of him.

Of course, this shift in persona might work better in different books than in the same book.

I like some of your ideas, Set, but even though her name is Phantom Girl, she's never been portrayed as being ghostly or spiritual or in tune with the dead or anything, except for when she was dead in the reboot briefly. She's just a red blooded girl who can walk through stuff. Would love to see some of your ideas explored though.

Well, Garth and Dirk weren't there to be out-of-character hotheads, so Rokk had to be the out-of-character hothead for that scene.

I mean, someone has to irrationally snap (for the wrong reasons, at the wrong person), 'cause otherwise we'd have four whole pages of grown-up superheroes acting like grown-up superheroes, and that's just crazytalk!

From my perspective if our fave characters never, ever acted out of character occasionally because of circumstances, then why bother to read about them? If it's as simple as "if Cos encounters x situation, then he'll ALWAYS react with y!" The Legion's been through a LOT during their time off-camera, and this jackass Earth Man has been behind a good chunk of it. I think Cos flying off the handle here can easily be justified.

Do you guys ALWAYS react the same way in certain situations? Are there some that are sever enough that might cause you to react differently? Of COURSE there are! Cut Cos (and Paul) some slack! If every Legion (or comic book) story had every single character reacting exactly as I feel they would every single time, I probably wouldn't be much of a fan.

I mean, wasn't Nura being an effective leader a bit of a surprise with what had sometimes been known as a flighty character? I wouldn't say there was NOTHING in her history that could support it, but it was certainly not her dominant portrayal.

What about Jeckie killing Nemesis Kid? Was there all that much in her history that would suggest she'd have a vengeful side? No, not really.

If these characters had acted consistently "in-character", we wouldn't have had some of our greatest Legion moments! Cos's situation was pretty light in comparison, but those examples hold up. At least it shows Cos has his limits and still feels passionately about some things. Good for Cos!

I'm not endorsing EVERY out-of-character thing any creator has ever done. Geoff Johns, for example, had to clean up a royal injustice with Hal Jordan. But the occasional, justifiable lapse in character is one of the things that keeps me reading comics!

(moved to correct thread)

This is issue 1. If the characters are *already* acting out of character, how is a new reader supposed to have any idea what sort of person they *normally* are? It becomes the new default personality, to the new reader, and they will begin to wonder what's 'wrong' with Cos or Garth or Dirk if they stop acting like hotheads (or if Polar Boy goes back to having a stick up his bum).

It's not a question of 'always.' It's a question of 'already?' If you meet an alien and it's got two tentacles, and sixteen issues later you find out that the reason everyone has been acting so strange around him is because he's from a race that normally has three tentacles and he lost one of his tentacles in some great heroic sacrifice, then you've spent sixteen issues completely misunderstanding the character, through no fault of your own, because this new character was introduced with a radical change that you weren't informed was a radical change. The reader, innocently assumed that alien was *supposed* to have two tentacles, and missed the entire point of this presentation being an exceptional event, or something that should concern them and make them wonder 'why is Garth acting so weird?' or 'why does Urglespexor only have two tentacles?'

Does Imra ever say, 'Oh, it's not like Garth to freak out all the time, with the shouting and the anger and the abandoning me with the kids?'

Does Jo say, 'Whoa, Cos, you're supposed to be the level-headed one, calm down, I'm the guy with the short fuse!'

This is issue one. To someone, these are new(ish) characters. They are not being well served. To others, these are long-term established 'old friends,' and *we* are not being well-served by seeing a bunch of people who have the same names, but are acting like total strangers. If Paul isn't writing the characters for new readers (who could use a level playing field to meet these new guys *before* they start acting out-of-character, so that they have a baseline to recognize the difference) *or* old readers (who have been through 20 years of dashed hopes, and would maybe like to see their old friends *before* they start transitioning / developing / emotionally regressing to tantrum prone infants), who exactly is he writing this for?

It was easier for me to read the Threeboot, because Waid didn't say 'this is the same Legion you remember' and then write the characters completely different anyway.


Anywho, it's also a comic book. Whether or not *I* act out of character, or that lady you see in the Home Depot wearing a feather boa makes a lick of sense, it doesn't matter, because no one is 'writing' me. The old adage goes, 'Truth will always be stranger than fiction, because fiction has to make sense.'

It's supposed to be a story, and therefore it's supposed to be pre-written and have a narrative and a theme and a plot and some structure.

Darn tootin', as a writer, I'm gonna hold the characters in a fictional story to higher standards of consistent behavior and characterization than I would the dude at Subway who is really grumpy some days and really friendly other days.

Rob Liefield, to invoke the devil by speaking his name, was famous for this kind of 'writing,' where if he had a line in mind, then whatever character was in the scene would say that line. Didn't matter if it was Cable, or Deadshot, or Domino, or Boom-Boom, they would say that line, because, darn it, Rob wanted that line said. If you blacked out the pictures, it became increasingly difficult to tell who was saying what, because none of the characters had their own distinctive voice.

I'm hoping that there is some sort of story behind why Garth has been angry, shouting Intemperate Lad since the Lightning Saga, and why Rokk has been generally arguing with / shouting at Garth (or, now, random other people), and why Imra has looked so frazzled and worn out (dealing with those two for the last decade, I guess!) and that this isn't just 'the new characterization.' Garth has been angry throughout Lightnign Saga, Lo3W and is not implied to still be angry by Imra (and Adventure is going back in time and showing us a scene of angry teenaged Garth as well, making these characterizations, like Imra's 'crush' on Superboy, apparently retroactive, and not some completely understandable signs of stress or whatever).

And that's what I don't like the appearance of, these characterizations becoming canonized as 'the way they always were, Garth was always a raging hothead!' through the use of Adventure.

Suddenly, hothead Garth is no longer plot-related or an inconsistency, it's just 'the way he always was.'

That's not character development or growth (or regression, in this instance), that's just the storyteller stepping out of the book and saying, 'Oh, Garth was always like that, you are misremembering him.'

Expanded like that, Set, I can better see the point you were trying to make, but your previous post responding to Mediocre Boy, taken in and of itself, seemed pretty sweeping and caused me to react with the above post.

I can't really speak for the new reader. I mean someone's first Legion comic may have been that issue of Superboy & the LSH where Cos slapped Ayla! To me, that's much crappier characterization of him than anything he did in LSH #1.

When I was still getting my feet wet as a Legion fan, the first Cos-centric story I ever read was the issue when Cos's family is firebombed, and he goes out hell-bent to stop those responsible. Not exactly his M.O., but I understood this was an exceptionally trying time for him. It certainly wasn't random like a pimp-slap on Ayla!

I, however, assume the percentage of truly new readers to the property is relatively low. Most, I'd wager, are like many of us and are longtime readers, and many others may have followed them thru the Super-titles, perhaps going as far back as the big arc in Action Comics. If they (or we) read the arc which introduced Earth Man and all that milieu, it's understandable why Legionnaires would be edgy after all they went through. To me, this would especially apply to THE 'company man' of the LSH, Cos. To be honest, it kinda thrilled me!

As for Garth and other inconsistencies, some of this boils down to Paul being the writer. If this was Johns or anyone else, we'd probably give them a pass. But I understand that Paul's playing the hand he was dealt. I also understand and believe that if Paul can find a way to explain or marry the inconsistencies without sacrificing a good story in the process, he'll do it. At this point Paul is trying to be consistent with what Geoff has set up, moreso than with where he left off in the '80s. If he wasn't doing that, then damnit, we'd complain about that too! That's how we Legion fans roll, dontchaknow?

He's got two issues out so far, one of LSH and one of Adventure. Give Paul a chance to work his wiles and, very importantly, to cast some of the rust off before we claim he's writing evil Durlan imposters disguised as the Legionnaires we all fell in love with. Certainly, he's got a bigger cast to juggle than most writers in comics ever have to worry about!

I think the worst character derailment at the moment is Brainiac 5. He's never been like this except right before he was shown to be insane, and most people forget this, but the insanity was caused by Stargrave--he doesn't naturally tend to go insane on his own. He's also been shown as a lot more able to deal with people and with human emotions--he's being written in a very exaggerated way here.

That's one of my favorite appearances by him too, and was made more powerful because it *was* something new and exciting. If he'd *always* been shown as snappy and prone to violent displays, I don't think it would have been as effective.

Same thing with Projectra snapping Nemesis Kid's neck. If Tasmia snapped the neck of someone threatening Talokk VIII, I'd be like, 'I can see that.' But from Jeckie, it was all the more powerful (to me, anyway) because Jeckie's not a neck-snappin' fool.

The development of Violet from shy to angry, post kidnapping, was an expanded bit of character development with resonance to the story that is *still* be mentioned as recently as Legion of Three Worlds, with the talk of her and Yera being at odds at the UP council meeting.

So, I'm all for 'out of character' moments, so long as they flow from the story. Some of the most powerful Legion moments are when someone does something unexpected, but if all the characters *ever* do is act out of character, that powerful storytelling tool, which we saw with Cos and Jeckie and Vi, is robbed of any potency.

Without a baseline for comparison, without seeing Rokk or Garth or Dirk as being something *other* than hotheads, the 'highs' and 'lows' are meaningless, and all I'm seeing is three grown up men acting petulant.

Anywho, short short version;

Everyone's too angry. We need some laid-back characters to even out the flow and cut back on the negativity! It's hard to *like* these people.

But hasn't the whole reason for this behavior been set up with the "Superman & the LSH" arc? Clearly, they were outcasts for a time in favor of, essentially, thugs and a racist (or more exactly xenophobic, but we know what the metaphor was about) agenda that flew in the face of everything they ever stood for. And Paul has chosen to follow a more realistic storytelling path in which the "reset button" hasn't exactly been pushed and tensions remain high. Add in that Earth is forcing them to accept the worst of those they fought into their ranks, and I might see their point of view pretty easily.

I'd argue that this storyline portrays the most extended period of strife for that version of the Legion in their history. Add this on top of the bad times set up by the Magic Wars (and remembering that 5YL is now out of continuity), then I can see them being more cynical and snappy than we'd like them to be. Even Cos!

However, as things pass, I also feel like the edginess will subside and the more optimistic nature of the Legionnaires emerge more prominently. It'll never be as bright and sunny as the Silver Age, but the characters will probably act more consistently with how we expect them to act. Cos will be the noble, stoic guy we expect him to be and the others will follow suit. This is what I expect, anyway, as long as Paul continues to guide them.

In Paul I trust!

One should beware of false gods.

The idea that we should give Levitz a chance "to work out the rust" is telling, I think. Only in comics are fans admonished to give creators a chance to figure things out as they go along. In any other medium, writers are expected to have figured out the story and the characters before presenting them to the public.

I agree with Set's analysis of Cosmic Boy and the others: It was the fact that they were acting so extreme in extreme situations that made the break with their established behaviors so believable. However, you've got to have that "baseline" personality to know when a character is acting unusual. When he does act unusual, it better be for a darn good reason.

I'm also not buying the "a lot has happened since we last saw our friends" argument. This argument is creator shorthand for "I don't have the time or the desire to explain this to you now; you'll just have to trust me."

I'm more demanding of writers these days. Trust has to be earned.

I think some Legion fans (self included) are pretty much like those headshy dogs that you can't pet because their last owner used to beat them.

We've been dicked around pretty egregiously since about 1985, and I, for one, have little of the 'give them a chance!' left, after having been smacked on the nose a dozen or so times in that interim.

After awhile, you feel like Charlie Brown, running at the ball, 'trusting' Lucy to not yank it away this time. Yeah, Lucy fooled him the first time, but by now, you gotta wonder what the heck is wrong with that kid.

Set, it's been 25 years since you've been happy with the LSH?

Nah, there've been quite a few stories I've liked, or even loved, like Superboy's Legion, but they weren't necessarily 'real' in that I'll probably never see those specific characters again (Lyle and Brainy as cloned brothers, for instance, or Ayla and Garth as young aristocrats, or a Legion that includes Karate Kid, Ferro Lad and Kinetix and Dawnstar in it's eventual line-up, at the same time).

Since not too long after Crisis snatched Superboy away, the team has gone through a bewildering series of retcons, time tweaks, pocket universe, reboots, threeboots, etc. leaving everything fragmented.

I'm a big fan of Shikari (more so than 'classic' Dawnstar) and Kid Quantum 2, and Theena and Gazelle and Turtle and all sorts of other characters that have been rendered part of some alternate continuity that may or may not exist.

There are fans of characters and teams from each of these continuities, which makes it more and more difficult to write a Legion book that appeals to anyone who has ever read a Legion book before, because, to someone, they are getting it wrong.

Current 'classic' Brainy, for instance, is acting like Vril Dox or Threeboot Brainy. That's great, for fans of Vril Dox or Threeboot Brainy, but annoying to fans of the original Brainiac 5, who was only that messed-up when he was being mind-jobbed by Pulsar Stargrave.

How many odd little details seem 'off?' I can't even blame Paul Levitz for not remembering that Imra *isn't* an orphan and that the kids can't be visiting Garth's folks, because Garth's folks are *dead,* because we've seen, in the last couple decades, three or four distinct histories for Garth and Imra. No wonder the guy gets confused from time to time, he's got thirty-ish characters running around, with an average of three different histories *each.*

[Granted, as someone who has written and edited professionally, however briefly, I would expect them to have a chart or 'story bible' somewhere, at least as good as the ones we have here on Legion World, but my expectations are apparently unreasonable, and, for expecting DC to use the same sort of basic serial writing standards that *soap opera writers* use, I'm 'impossible to please'...]

That's exactly how I felt after reading the new first issue. I'm not exactly a new reader: I've been a Legion fan since 1972, and I'm familiar with most of the tropes of DC's history. But that was part of the problem: LSH # 1 felt too familiar, as if DC had polled its most ardent readers to find out what they liked/remembered most about past Legion and DCU stories and decided to tailor the story specifically to that audience.

Which is fine if all you want to do is regurgitate what your audience already wants or expects.

But what happens when that audience gets a little bored with eating the same old warmed-over oatmeal? Do you bank on them wanting to pay increasingly more for the same experience, or do you try to expand your horizons a little and maybe draw in new readers?

DC must be doing something right. The comments on this thread suggest that many readers liked the first issue. Of course, many of those comments revolve around debates about Saturn Girl's TK, the new costumes, and whether or not the characterization of certain characters is consistent with past portrayals.

So, maybe that's the answer: Put in enough superficial or inconsistent changes, and the faithful will continue to flock to it, to see where you are going. And, as long as the faithful can be strung along, who needs to bother with new (and potentially discriminating) readers?

[snip]

He Who Wander:

Quote

...So, maybe that's the answer: Put in enough superficial or inconsistent changes, and the faithful will continue to flock to it, to see where you are going. And, as long as the faithful can be strung along, who needs to bother with new (and potentially discriminating) readers?

Seems a little early to me to call the changes "superficial." I can think of several off the top of my head that could have interesting long-term influence on the characters.

Anyway, I've said before that I don't think content matters from a marketing perspective. Savvy marketers can get people to buy pretty much anything, but The Big Two's idea of marketing seems to be pretty much where it was twenty years ago-- and still getting smaller and smaller.

By "superficial," I was referring to costume changes, which, let's face it, are almost always superficial.

There are rare instances when a character has changed his or her appearance as a sign of how he or she has changed on the inside. (Storm's mohawk comes to mind; although it was a horrible, trendy change, it was meant to reflect some transformation of the character.) For the most part--and certainly in the Legion's case--costume changes are merely window dressing.

I agree with you about the marketing, though.

Interestingly, I do think costume changes in the Legion have traditionally been used to signal signifcant changes in the team itself.

The Silver Age designs were mostly conceived on the model of "futuristic clothing".

The transition to the 70s outfits marks an intentional focus on youth and the "super-teens of the future" aspect.

The transition to the 80s costumes marks the fact that the Legion had started to grow up.

I suppose the quesiton is wehther the current set of costume changes has any deeper rationale.

The common threads of bare arms, piping, boobholes, etc. could be indicative of a team that is starting to become more unified, due to their recent ostracism by earth, having had, for a while, only each other to depend upon.

More 'us against them' / 'thin blue line' mentality, although not to the point of having uniforms or anything...

In Lightning Saga, there was a lot of suggestion that the Legion had 'come together' more than previously, with Brin and Ayla back together, Thom and Nura maybe together again (hard to say), Val and Jeckie possibly back together again (and Val back from the dead) and some new members in Chameleon Girl and Night Girl.

Legion of Three Worlds mixed that up with Myg's rant about how the Legion was all bickering and in-fighting, and Rokk's blowup at Garth over who had sacrificed more to run things.

Now it's all falling apart again, with Mon and Shady being the first casualty, and Imra and Garth off having solo adventures, split up in fact, if not 'officially.'

Perhaps without all of the Earth standing against them, forcing them to work together, the old core team are simply not friends any more, and the costume coordination is a 'false flag' sort of thing, making it superficially look like they are a team or a family, when, underneath, the Legion is coming apart at the seams...

True. I do think there's a difference, however, between costume "updates" that go with the times and costume changes that reflect transformation of character. The first type of change is almost always external driven: it's meant to make the characters more appealing to a changing target audience.

The second type of change is internal driven: it comes from a change in the character him- or herself. I prefer this type of change as it indicates, as you suggest, that something deeper is going on.

I re-read LSH # 1 the other day, and Saturn Girl's costume change seems to be the second type of change (at least I hope it is): the shorter hair, for example, certainly makes her appear more mature. The other Legionnaires not so much.