Oh my GOD that Timber Wolf cover.

And oh my God Mr. Levitz please don't kill the twins. Or maim them.

http://dcu.blog.dccomics.com/2010/09/15/the-final-fate-of-saturn-girls-twins-and-a-new-gl/#comments

Wow the art looks great, and that Timber Wolf variant cover will be a sell-out for sure.
Can't wait until next Wednesday!

So far the Mon-El and Chameleon Boy covers have been my favorites, but this one's nice, too!

That preview doesn't do much for me. The writing seems somewhat... stilted? And I still cannot get past how awful Jeckie looks. Or Sun Boy's annoyingly incorrect hair colour.

I like the lighter blond look on Dirk. Hope it stays.

Damn! Another variant hit outta the park by Jim Lee! The first three were kinda *meh*, but T-Wolf and Mon? OUT-friggin-STANDING!!!

It looks like Mon-El's shoulder on the right side of the Jim Lee T-Wolf cover. Do all the Lee covers fit together for a panoramic view?

Yes.

Okay, I think the one and only thing that Legion fandom has EVER agreed on is that this Sensor Girl costume is hideous. Can we PLEASE get rid of it once and for all already?

I said please.

wrong. the other thing all of Legion fandom agreed on was how awful "Sneckie" was.
now we have "boob window/tiara-wearing" Sensor Girl.
also, notice how the Earth Force have glass brains ala Validus! Eeek!

I wouldn't mind it if it were only him(*) but now that he and Garth have both been lightened that makes three blond males (includeing Jan) on the team and no red-heads. Variety is the spice of life.

(*) Actually yes, it would still bug me. Incorrect hair colouring is one of my biggest pet-peeves on the Legion. With so many members and so few artists able to draw more than one stock 'male' face and one stock 'female' face, hair colour becomes one of the most identifiable characteristics a character can have. Change that up and it's like putting a new character in that Sun Boy costume.

I find Dirk's joking(?) about picking up a Titanian girl in this context a little bizarre.

I liked Sneckie, as a person.
The robot arms were silly, but Sneckie I liked.
Sorry GN.

The cover has the twin's and Dirk's hair pretty correct.
On the inside, Dirk's is close to a golden strawberry blonde, too.

But who's the guy on the right (THEIR right?)
It's probably obvious to everyone else.
sigh

Shady doesn't look like she's smitten with Kirt, more suspicious.

And, I think some of the Cinar faces are very distinguishable.
Not all, but most of them.

Wolf is great!
He looks so like my photo redesign.
I just wish the costumes of all of them could be a little more teamish.
Oh, well.

I kinda liked Sneckie too (and her robot arms). Though I would have preferred her as an original character than as a re-imagined Jeckie.

It was everything around Sneckie I hated - her homeworld that somehow developed an exact copy of an Earth feudal poilitcal system (despite the fact it was a planet of snakes :wtf: ), her silly family with all their too-cute, similar-to-the-English-Royal-Family names, her cloying personality (especially at a time when we had another equally as annoying 'perky' Legionnaire in Monstress) and most especially - those raccoon slaves! So tacky!

The presence of a non-humanoid Legionnaire was very welcome to me though. I actually thought she had a great visual (when she was the snake). I hated her post-'change' visual at the time. But in retrospect it was a good one too. I just would have rather'd it be a new Legionnaire in that form than losing a good old one.

So to sum up -

I like Jeckie.
I like Sneckie.
I like Naga-eckie.

Just not all as the same character.

P.S. This is a topic for another thread, but in retrospect I think Sneckie was probably one of the biggest mistakes of the Reboot. What purpose did making that change serve other than to say to older fans "F*** you! This isn't your Legion anymore!"? ... I loved a lot of the improvements the Reboot made to the Legion mythos but an unnecessary and (they had to have known) divisive change like this one was a big mistake IMO. Anyway, I digress...

I can never get worked up about hair colour. So a red head dyes their hair mor blonde? Happens all the time.

The (standard) cover: I loved the way Dirk and Tasmia are both watching Earth-Man. Sun Boy's face is brilliant. Shadow Lass looks like someone ready to jump into his bed.

The earth force: If you blow up the picture, those helmets don't look see through just have some kind of logo on them.

oh man... <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Timber Wolf has heightened senses and claws now?? BLEHH. Is that really gonna help the Wolverine comparisons any?</span></span>

Does he have a homicidal maniac for a son?

LOL


As for Jeckie's costume, yes I hate it too but I don't hate it as much when the wig and mask are off.
Jeckie's white-ish hair actually makes the white in the costume stand out more, thus making the whole thing more tolerable to me.
Does she really need to keep her identity a secret any longer? It's been so long, I don't think anyone really cares anymore, do they?

Somehow it worked for with just the mark off, at least to me.

I'm kind of in two minds about it....on one hand it actually does make sense for the rest of the world not to know that she's Projectra because it makes her illusions more effective.

On the other hand, the Fatal Five at least know who she is, and while Sarya died not long after that encounter the Persuader, Flare and Caress are still around. I guess the question then becomes how chummy are the bad guys of the 31st Century and how likely would they be to spread the word?

If everyone knows that Sensor Girl is Projectra then the mask is silly. If it's still a secret, I think it's definitely worth keeping a secret...

You mean Mountain Goat, the rock-climbing psychopath he's always butting heads with? Nothing's been confirmed, but I hear rumors....

The claws have some historical precedence as he was sometimes drawn that way after the accident that left him looking 'animalistic'. The heightened senses are a total mistake for this version of the character although the reboot T-wolf did have heightened senses and a healing factor (at the end of the run). The irony here is that 1. Brin predates Logan and 2. Wolverine was originally concieved as a villain for a LSH spin-off series that never happened.

The whole purpose of Sensor Girl's mask was to hide her identity. Wouldn't the tiara be an obvious reminder to her foes who she is? Sensor Girl for leader and she can celebrate with a whole makeover in her wardrobe.

actually Brin had the claws b4 and the heighten senses b4 as well.

The symbolism of it being Sun Boy and Shadow Lass that are clearly keeping an eye on him, as Earth-Man is 'trapped between the light and the dark' deciding which way he's going to go, is kinda neat.

This, like the comment about Polar Boy breaking Sun Boy's flirting record in the second issue (ish), seems to be telling us about Sun Boy, by way of establishing characterization, rather than *showing us* that characterization.

It could be terribly clever, in that he's clearly not the man he used to be, if he's still surviving off of that reputation, despite *not* being a lothario any more...

It's not like we've seen him dating since being busted out of captivity.

If Paul is playing with long-term fans expectations by having Dirk's friends not having recognized yet how changed he is from happy-go-lucky mister serial monogamist, it could make for some interesting character development, although, after what happened with Reboot Sun Boy, I'm not sure I want to see him dragged down that path again...

Good point, interesting.

I disagree about interpreting Shady's look at EM as amourous.
It just looks intense and rather distrusting, to me.

And I didn't think that Sneckie was a slap in the face for old fans.
I'm an old fan.

But I always found the original to be extremely boring.
Even Sensor Girl was almost non-dimensional in personality.
The mask certainly suited her.

Now, I think I remember Legionnaires calling her Jeckie or Princess or something.
I'll have to recheck the dialog, but that would render the mask kind of rediculous, giving her identity away, imo.
Like the crown, it's counter productive to a 'secret' identity.

I thought that the lovely close-up of her that we saw was spoiled by the mask.
Jeckie may have little personality, but she IS beautiful.

It just seems really clumsy and to make the characterization of him really one-note. Especially in a situation like this in which it seems the perfect opportunity to allude to other important beats in Sun Boy's past, like the evacuation of Xenn.

Oh, I agree. 'Show, don't tell' is a mantra of visual storytelling (usually TV, but is also applies to comics).

When a character's personality is described, instead of shown (and the character isn't in a coma or something...), it's just flat-out bad scripting.

Hence my sidetrack into speculating that this Dirk hasn't 'shown' the interest that he talks up, making me wonder if maybe it's a deeper thing, where he's putting on a show of being the same fun-loving skirt-chasing Dirk, when he's really more angry and bitter about recent events.

Maybe he's even a bit put out by how Garth and Imra are off saving the kids, and have the whole family thing going on, and Tinya's so important to Jo that she can snap him out of mind-control, and, because of his past choices, there's nobody who means that much to him, or to whom he means that much, which, now that he's all angsty about what happened in the recent xenophobia storyline, means he's got no one to open up to, or no one that he's close enough to that they would notice he's not himself...

Or not.

Could just be crap writing, and me trying to sew a silk purse out of it.

The things that come out of Sun Boy's mouth lately are a bit off-putting ... maybe it's post traumatic stress disorder?
I agree with what you said Set. Hopefully he's not actually serious about the stuff he's saying but rather acting out in front of his old friends, you know, being the Dirk he's expected to be (a ladies man) rather than the actual person he is today, or how life has made him become (more mature if you will).
We all act a certain way in front of those people we grew up with as opposed to, say, the colleagues at a new job or something.

And speaking of costume blunders (Sensor Girl) I think it's only fair to mention those ridiculous light blue, (what are they anyway, leotards?) that Brin is sporting lately.
Really????

I agree with Candle. "Sneckie" (and Monstress) both had a great deal of class, IMO. So, please, don't attempt to speak for all of Legion fandom, thank you very much.

It looks like the Earth Force Trooper on the right is the only one with a clip in his weapon.

Looks like there is a preview! I thought I saw one.

This has been a busy day at work. I can't wait to go home and read this.

boo hiss boo hiss.

my very sophisticated review of number 5.

What happened in the issue? Spoilers plz!

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">The Big thiing...the durlans killed Chief Zendax (im mad at paul for this...but maybe its too soon maybe hopefully he'll be alive after this arc. the 2nd thing is there is some mystery with Harmonia lee she's older than she looks ...LOL </span></span>


also for the main spoiler all i'm gonna say is ...i was right i was right ...i was the first to say it i was right yahooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!

I thought the <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Zendek murder</span></span> seemed to solidify this as it's own continuity ... yet another 'boot. which i say again should be titled 'Earth Man and the Legion of Super Heroes'.


maniacs that topple civilization only need 5 issues to be redeemed.

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">and bed the blue female on the team. </span></span>

I can't say I'm happy with either the death or the bedding.

I was hoping Paul would get over his Earth-Man obsession and move on to a more deserving of face-time Legionnaire like Matter-Eater Lad or Night Girl.

So nothing happened with the kids.

Something else else is definitely up with Harmonia Li. Someone who talks the way she did is hiding something. And she knows other immortals that she can compare the Guardians to? I've been trying to think of who she can be, but the best I can come up with is Talia Al Ghul (remember Ras was a reboot villain) or maybe the new Emerald Empress. This also raises the possibility that the "accident" that destroyed Titan was Li deliberately starting something.

Awesome issue. Levitz, Cinar and Portela are starting to click with me. We're getting glimpses of characterization for more members. It was nice to see Jeckie taking a leadership role during the opening battle. It was nice to see Gim refer to her as Jeckie after she was taken out. Brainiac 5 was less grating. Chameleon Boy showed some real personality.

Yes, the death scene was a bit disappointing. It was pretty dramatic, though, and there is some suspense now that the victim's identity has been stolen.

The mystery with Harmonia Li deepens. Is Earth Man's transformation legit? I'm even getting interested in the, "Who will be the Green Lantern?' subplot.

I liked the way the bedroom reveal was handled. Tinya phasing into her friend's room unannounced to retrieve the medikit seemed very natural. Earth Man all beefy, buff, and hairy chested... I can deal with that.

Major thumbs up for the art team this issue. The action scenes were especially well done.

Next month: Special guest artist Phil Jimenez! That's the way to end an issue on an exciting note.

why would he be over him in just 5 issues of the reintroduction of this legion in their own book again?

And i suspect Earth Man's turn around with what Brainy did to his ring.

No.
You think he couldn't have changed his demented mind for a chance with Shady?
What a farce.
He's a crazy man.
One minute he's torturing Dirk, the next he's sorry for his mistake.

All I can say is that he'd better be lying or maybe PAUL's the nut job.
sigh

And there's Tinya being all sex policey.
geez

Not to mention Li being an immortal, probably one of the female Guardians, given her opinion of them.
If she's not the Emerald Empress, or one of them, since we saw two Eyes in this continuity, I don't know what powers she has, but I bet she HAS some.

And good guess on the Time Institute not being an accident, Ken!
THAT'S a mystery I can get into.
The EM stuff is just ugh!
I'm not crazy about the Durlan plot either but I'll give it a chance.

I'm with Tinya all the way on the EM/Shady subject!

Well this issue sure was a surprise, for a lot or reasons. It was a mixed bag of good and bad, for me at least.

I still think Earth Man's inclusion in the Legion is a huge mistake. Not only did we have the message that it's ok to be a narrow-minded racist in the 31st century, because you'll make it into the Legion anyway (how contradictory by the way), but now that selfish, low-brow xenophobic attitude is sexy enough to attract a Legion veteran (an off-worlder herself) and get her into bed with you.
Nice message there Paul!
I'm not the least bit impressed. The hand-to-mouth shock value was, in no specific order: predictable, lame and cheap. I do not care for this particular subplot nor the players involved, specifically Earth Man. And now Shady, if that's who it actually was in bed with him. There is no way to redeem her as a serious character after this, in my opinion. Her merits as a role model, hero, alien, and woman are down the drain after this huge lapse of judgement. She just slept with everything she's supposed to stand against.
She left the company of a noble man like Monel for that??? There is NO WAY this is the real Tasmia Mallor. It has to be somebody else ... otherwise Shadow Lass is dead to me as a hero. I just will never take her seriously after this.

* Ummm ... of course I will eat humble pie it that wasn't in fact Tasmia at all and turns out to be an illusion or something! *

Have we lost our faith in Paul and our legionnaires?

1) Haven't we had people who don't belong in the legion as members? The message isn't it's ok to be a narrow-minded racist in the 31st century, because you'll make it into the Legion anyway instead maybe the message is even a hardcore bigot can learn to change his mind while the legion themselves models the best of the U.P. by getting along with each other and that has an effect on making a change. Have we forgotten Reboot Andromeda?

2)How do we not know that Paul/Shady is doing something that is beyond what we know with our eyes. We don't have all the facts yet and given how long some of us have been with the Legion and admired Paul why are we so ready to give them up when they do stuff that appears contridictory to what we know about them without letting them & the story play itself out.

I have faith in Shady. I also have faith in Imra and not ready to just toss em out just cause something appears to turn them into something that they weren't before. Give Shady/Paul a bit of credit based on what you know of them.

Here's a thought: could "Shady" be Yera or Jekkie trying to get close to Earth Man in an attempt to figure him out?

I don't think Shadow Lass has any ulterior motive. Her dialogue in the last couple of issues seems to indicate she's a little embarrassed by really liking Earth-Man.

It is possible, however, that Earth-Man is under the influence of Brainy's flight ring. Brainy made vague comments about it being a mood ring. Earth-Man has changed his mind awfully fast for it to be real. Perhaps Shady thinks she's reforming him and doesn't know the truth.

future king: she didn't leave Mon-El for that, the breakup with Mon-El came before there was anything between her and Earth-Man.

That's not being sex policy..that's a friend being disgusted by what sees her friend sleeping with someone who's been a bigot as well as placed her (PG) and Ultra Boy in blocks leaching off their powers.

Kinda if someone jewish was sleeping with a nazi who became part of the resistance while holding some of his nazi beliefs still being ordered to be with the resistance of face jail time.

But i'm in the camp there's some reason why Tasmina is sleeping with Earth man other than sexual attraction. And who knows...Tinya could be in on it and this is a red herring misdirection to the readers. It's happend before.

Since when has proven to be 100 percent the case? Haven't we seen a legionnaire say/act like something is true then it turns out it was a misdirection by the writers for the true state of affairs to come out later? Case in Point, Cosmic Boy in the Reboot...he appeared to be Chu's lap dog...but all along he had his own plan at work. Another example. Superboy and the Invisible Kid/Ferro lad clones. From all the dialogue even the internal dialogue...he acted suprised that they were alive (he appeared to believe they were the originals come back to life) yet at the end of the story we found out he already knew they were clones and the legionnaires already let him know in advanced. have a bit of faith in shady.

Am I the only one who thinks it was totally inappropriate for PG to phase into Shady's private room?

I agree the jury is still out as to what is going on here. Perhaps it's not really Shady, perhaps it's not even Earth Man. Perhaps nothing physical has actually happened between them yet and she is just leading him on to get information but was interrupted before she could put the brakes on herself.

I also don't mind the whole Earth Man sublot. I like his power and it is a unique one in the Legion at the moment. If he is reformed, he needs a new codename as the current one is not at all descriptive of what he can do.

My major complaint is... where the H is Luornu? I want to see her use her beefed up power!!!!

i would say its only inappropriate if they had an understanding of her not doing that. But being that they're both BFFs i doubt such a rule ever was spoken of or thought of. I'm pretty sure Tinya's phased into Shady's room b4 like this billions of time, and She was never offended by Tinya doing so. After all wouldn't she have put a stop to it if she was...we know Shady doesn't hold back her mouth.

Ok, did I totally miss 'the final fate' of the twins? Or was this just another lie... *er* I *mean* solisitation error on DC's part?

1. Why are Garth, Ayla, and Imra on the cover when they're not in the story? Why not Jo, Jeckie, and Brin, who had some serious screen time instead?

2. What was the point of the big mystery bedroom cover for next issue if it's given away in this issue?

3. Is there really only one medikit in all of Legion HQ? Seems like they'd have one in every room.

4. I'm sick of the focus being on Earth Man and the GLs when there are dozens of Legionnaires we've barely seen.

5. Why waste a whole page on Jeckie spotting the Earth Force and then just tell us about her being incapacitated by a scatter bomb off panel? Why not show us with some of that wasted space? If you're going to give us a full page pinup make it worth the space.

6. Earthman's acceptance among the LSH makes about as much sense as Sun Boy going off to join the freaks who committed genocide on Orando in the last boot.

7. The artwork is very inconsistent. At times, inspired, other times very amateurish.

8. I did like it that we got to see several Legionnaires this time around and not just the founders and Brainy.

I prefer Shrinking Violet's costume as it appeared in the Superman/Batman #75, not the way it's drawn in this issue.
It looks much better with the black leggings under the skirt, I think anyways.

I agree about the artwork being inconsistent, especially the last 4 pages or so, it really looked like some other artists drew them. Phantom Girl in particular looked terrible.

From Paul's Facebook page:

I really quite liked this issue. Much better than the last one at any rate.

No that it was perfect though. My gripes -

* Every Legionnaire who previously had red or white hair (minus Polar Boy though who knows how long he'll hold out for) now has blonde hair! What is this colorist's obsession with blondes? How long before the brunettes start going that color too? Dirk's change bugs big time but Nura's was the worst. Please get yourself sorted out Hi-Fi! Who is that anyway? Is that a person? A company?

* Totally agree with Jim re: the Jeckie/Earth Force fight scene. Why waste half a page and many words detailing exactly what happened in a fight when it would have been a lot more interesting to actually see it. First rule of comics Paul - Show, don't tell! The same thing happened later on when Sun Boy said he was the last one standing. I was like 'Huh? Colossal Boy was fine a moment ago.' Off-panel action is annoying.

* Timber Wolf - Power = "claws". Ugh. Hope that goes away soon.

* Sun Boy's costume - I've given it a chance but now I've decided I don't like it. His original was so much better and a true classic.

* Shady & Earth Man - I don't have a problem with the coupling so much as how obvious it was.

Now on to the things I did like about this issue -

* It was quite exciting all the way through. All the sub-plots (even that diabolical GL one) got more interesting this issue.

* Harmonia Li - if she turns out to be a villain (and even the intentional cause of Titan's destruction) then I will take my hat off to Paul and the quick-thinkers in this thread because I never would have seen that coming. Now that I think about it - Circadia Senius' dialogue could be hints that she's the Time Trapper. But I hope Paul isn't going down that road. I'm kinda tired of *shocking* Time Trapper identity reveals that just get retconned a year or two later.

* Speaking of Circadia Senius - great to see him! Always loved that supporting character!

* Speaking of supporting characters - Zendak got blown away! I'm surprised by the grief shown in this thread for him. Maybe he's more of a presence in some of the holes in my collection but I can't remember him ever doing much. I wonder if GiGi or Shvaughn (where is she anyway?) will take his place?

* The Durlan Spy sub-plot - was my favourite part of the issue. Now this story just got interesting! Wasn't expecting that after their lacklustre start.

* The art in the Brainy/Circadia, Durlan/Zendak and (I think) Nura/Harmonia scenes - love it! Is that Francis Portela? Why isn't he the lead artist on this book? It's so much better than Cinar's IMO. Much more detailed and much more expressive too.

* Earth Man - Heaven help me but I'm starting to like him. I refuse to like him if he's a murderer though. Can someone help me out with his 'crimes'. I know he's alleged to have killed Double-Header, but that happened off-panel so could easily be revealed as the Subs just misinterpreting the event or receiving bad intel or something. I know he kept some of the Legionnaires in stasis for a while but I'm sure they can forgive that. Sun Boy had it worse and he seems to be on the way to forgiveness. Polar Boy lost an arm but that was to Tusker I think. Earth-Man's biggest crime as far as I can remember is probably being involved in the death of Karate Kid II (though it was Radiation Roy who delivered the killing blow there I think). Did we see or hear of him killing anyone else?

Looking forward to next issue!

Well that clears that up. If they are writing solicitations for a story that they KNOW hasn't been written yet and willfully publish that solicitation knowing that the storyline could change then it is a LIE. Not on the part of the writer or even the person that writes the solicitations, but definately a lie on the part of DC.

^ That's a little melodramatic isn't it?

Solicitations have to go out for retailing/ordering purposes months in advance, often times before the writers have had the chance to do more than a plot outline for those issues.

And sometimes plots change. Would you rather the writers be beholden to whatever the solicits say even if a better idea comes along? Or that the solicits be blank to avoid the chance of them "lying" to you?

It's hardly a big deal re: this issue anyway. Didn't the Ranzz kids storyline get wrapped up last month? So Paul just decided to end that story a month early. It's not like the solicits said something monumental like "TYROC FINALLY GETS HIS HAIR AND A DECENT COSTUME BACK" or something.

DC can change the solicitations on their site right up until the day the book is published, but they are too lazy and/or dishonest to do so. And that is all I have to say on the subject since I seem to be dragging the thread way off topic, which was not my intent.
Back on-topic: sick of all things Earth Man, sick of all things Green Lantern. Love that Harmonia Li essentially told them to stuff their ring. Looking forward to this book actually being about the Legion and not Earth Man's 'redemption' or GL shenanigans.

The final fate of the Ranzz kids is to be swept under the rug, We learn *nothing* about the status of Validus or the Darkseid curse, which was the only purpose this storyline could possibly hafve had.. The whole thing was pointless and a waste of my time.

The next Green Lantern is revealed as Nobody. The GL fans Levitz sought to attract must be bored to death by now. I know I am.

I don't remember Chief Zendak very well so I don't really care that he got a hole blasted through his chest I suppose we ought to be grateful it wasn't Gigi or Shvaughn.

The Brande-worshipping Durlan terrorists look as one-dimensional as the xeno terrorists, and will probably prove as inefffectual. .This book is in desperate need of a space-whale or something.

So let me get this straight -- Earth Man kidnapped and tortured Dirk but he never really meant to hurt him. How sweet!

Earth Man's rehabilitation is less convincing than Lindsay Lohan's. The only twist that might save this storyline from dreary predicatability is if Brainy's "mood ring" modification altered Niedrigh's personality, I doubt it, though. It's too clever.

Levitz's new favorite trope seems to be women who fall into bed with the wrong guys. Drunkeness and mind-wiping are optional, I guess. There'a double-diss against Mon-El here in that it was Earth Man who flung Mon into the Phantom Zone not so long ago. What kind of woman would sleep with the creep who beat up her boyfriend? Not any woman who has my respect, that's for sure.

I enjoyed the 1/10th of the issue that had Brainy brown-nosing Circadia Senius and the Chronarch;s revelation that Prof. Harmonia Li is a senior citizan (is that why Beren digs her so much?). But that's only 39 cents worth of good (imo) storytelling. I haven't felt so ripped off by a Legion series since Lori Morning guest-starred every other month in the late 1990s. I can't see how this stultifyingly boring and pointless story arc can be redeemed in one more issue.

My comment was sarcastic.
On other threads, saying the same thing that Tinya said about the idea of Shady sleeping with EM, solicited comments that people were judging the poor woman and were being 'sex police'.
I just found Tinya's reaction to be similar to ours, so I pointed it out.
I guess you had to be there.


Kirt can't change his mental illness on his own.
If he's not a killer, he's incited millions to violence and killing.
Hitler and Stalin probably didn't do most of the murders that happpened in their eras, either.

His actions have gone way past 'changing his mind'.
If he's in bed with Tasmia, a true, humanoid alien and not a colonist from Earth, than there's an outside influence and/or subterfuge on his part.
I agree that it's probably the Legion ring but I also think that he's full of ulterior motives.

And Shady with EM?
That's not right, either.

She left Mon for a reason, which she didn't tell anybody about, including Lar.
I've gotten past the shock and I am sure we're going to see more than that she's attracted to him.
She never been a 'groupie' before.
The only one she's ever been shown to be attracted to before Lar, was Querl, and just briefly.
(The original boot, and the reboot, of course. We won't look at the crazy Primeboot.)

I'm more bothered by the fact that the solicit lied.

Earth Man gave Yera an over zealous beating. despite having about 25 powers he could use to disable her.

he's a jerk.

At least you enjoyed that much. I have found far less enjoyment from the entire run (and that includes everything from 'The Lightning Saga' until this point) than you seem to have found in one issue. I fear that LSH has gone from standing for 'Legion of Super-Heroes' to meaning 'Lame, Sucking, Hasbeens'.... and I don't mean the characters.

Sarky, Paul Levits wrote this on his FB page...

"A few comments about how #5 didn't match its solicit story description. Please understand that as comics' production and distribution cycles have tightened more than the solicitation cycle, many solicits are written before the comics themselves, counter-intuitive as that is. In the case of #5, probably before even #4 was scripted, I guess. The info included is always intended to be honest (at least as far as any solicitations for my stories since I returned to writing--I won't speak for the wider world since I don't have first hand knowledge) if melodramatic and sales-oriented."

Here, here! Encore!!! BRAVO!!!!!!!
My hats off to you mate ... you made me laugh out loud when I read that last part!

I could not agree with you more about Tyroc.

As IF he EVER had a decent costume!

I, for one, am REALLY surprised that people lament the loss of the old costume so much. I swear, that old disco king tunic got as much hate as any one I've ever seen get as long as I can remember. Now, suddenly...?

lol!
AND the hair.
But even in the middle of the era, I disliked Afros.

To the last three posts - Love it or hate it, at least Tyroc had a 'look' once upon a time.

His current generic, crowd-scene, background character on page 11, panel 4 of a Fourth World book (who for some unknown reason has Brainiac 5's symbol on his chest) is hardly a memorable 'look' befitting a Legionnaire IMO.

Plus - I'll be the first to admit that Tyroc's old 'look' was very 'of-its-age' (to put it kindly) and that the pixie boots and chest-chains (or whatever they were) were problematic. But a lot of the hate for that costume from fans seems to be because it exposed so much skin. And yet only a small minority of those fans also complain about all the girls' costumes that expose a lot more skin. I find that double-standard... annoying.

Getting back on topic... Earth Man - Yes, he really is past the point of redemption isn't he. I've liked what Paul has done with him so far but it's probably soon time to see his story arc end. I liked him better as a villain anyway.

If it's the ring that has caused Kirt's mood to switch, as some have suggested here, I'll be rather impressed. It also leads one to believe that when he takes the ring off, he will revert to his old ways with an even bigger hate-on for the LSH.

I wanted to learn to like him in the LSH but I do think the Double-Header murder, the tossing of Infectious Lass into the time-stream and other crimes in the ACTION arc are unforgivable.

And I *KNEW* when I read the off-panel taking down of Jeckie that this action sequence was going to draw sharp criticism, especially coming after an unnecessary splash page.

I rather enjoyed the Brainiac 5/Cosmic Boy/Chronarch scenes.

LSH still isn't clicking with me 100% yet but I'm still onboard.

Having both rings sitting on the table next to the bed on the coming cover doesn't bode well for Shady, if the ring is what is controlling his hatred of aliens.

He didn't look smitten on that cover.
brrrr
But, she knows about the rings special properties.
So?

And nobody is beyond redemption.
This situation just isn't the way it's done, imo.

And Tyroc, I dislike women being over exposed in comics, too.
But that's not really why I disliked Tyroc's old look.
It was just sssoooo cliched, Elvis wore it as a costume for his stage performances! and well, ugly.

That doesn't mean I like his current costume.
It's too generic, imo.
The hair, or head, is fine with me.
Derek on Criminal Minds has the right idea though, his hairstyles have changed many times over the years.
No Afros, though.
For which I'm thankful.

And still without tracks of Star Boy/Man, Xs and Night Girl.
At least Violet has been seen in action.
I hope that they do not leave of side Luornu, with his new power she is one of the legionnaire more powerful.
I Don't want to see her only of instructing in the academy.
Matter Eater Lad come back soon.
And please to change Brin's horrible suit seems that it has ballet slippers.

Just because the ring affects his mind doesn't mean he instantly goes back to normal when it's taken off. It could very well be an effect that wears off.

It's also possible that Shady doesn't know about the ring's effects, since Brainy was being pretty vague about it.

So, now that I've had a day to read and re-read the comic, I'm intrigued by the art. I wish pages would be individually labeled with which artist worked on them.

The closeups on Tinya's face at the top of 35 (talking after the combat), and of Shady in profile at the bottom of that same page are pretty nice pieces of work. Shady-in-profile, in particular, is a nice image.

Sun Boy looks pretty impressive on page 3, as well, where Sensor is telling him that the people are clear and it's safe to incinerate the wreckage.

Violet's costume is interesting. I don't love it, but it's kinda neat, and it doesn't annoy me like some of the other busy, busy costumes.

Colossal Boy, on page 2? Dude. Lose the girdle. Or cummerbund. Or whatever the hell that thing is. Earth-Man wears the same fugly thing, like three or four leather belts stacked on top of each other and going all the way up to his diaphragm, and it looks dorktacular (and uncomfortable, and, yes, Gim, it does make you look fat).

I said previously that Cinar seems to have a vehement dislike of drawing wrists, because almost everybody has wristbands, little elfy gloves, etc., but I'm also now noticing that he's not real big on waists, either. All these extraneous belts and bands and buckles are really breaking up the flow of what used to be some pretty streamlined costumes (particularly on Lightning Lad, Element Lad, etc.).

Speaking of Earth-Man (which I was, 'cause of the cummberbund), on page 36, he's got super-human strength, enough to fold back a ceiling like it was made of wrapping paper. Where did he get that? He's travelling with Sun Boy, who is the last person he borrowed powers from, and it's been long enough the only powers he should have at the moment are those of Sun Boy and perhaps Sensor Girl...

I guess he could have borrowed Ultra Boy's powers, off-panel, but hasn't enough of this comic happened off-panel, what with Sensor and Brin getting jobbed off-panel?

Earth-Man is beginning to feel like Superboy Prime, whose powers are whatever is necessary to allow him to look cool, and whose weaknesses seem to go away the moment anyone attempts to exploit them.

There's some pretty convenient stuff going on, with Earth-Man. He happens to show up first, so that he could give some lame speech to Sun Boy (who, to his credit, didn't seem to even acknowledge it, which makes it even funnier, since any meaning to the speech is stolen by Dirk's utter lack of reaction), even if, of those dispatched, Ultra Boy should have shown up first, followed by Cosmic Boy, Tellus, Quislet, Chameleon Boy, Phantom Girl and Shrinking Violet, all of whom can boost their speed through creative use of their powers (or firing the little thrusters on their tiny spaceship...).

Earth-Man (and Shady) should have arrived dead last, not 'got there first.'

It seems that Kirt moves 'at the speed of plot,' as JMS would say, going exactly as fast as (and being exactly as strong as) necessary to enable the scene to work as scripted.

Not thrilled with Brin getting beat up off-panel, but those dudes suits did appear to have rocket-boots, and, I'm gonna guess, some augmented strength and protection. This is the 31st century, that sort of stuff probably comes standard in swimwear. Brin's not known for his invulnerability (although he is pretty tough), so I could buy some doofus in powered armor flying fist-first into his head and knocking him out.

Agility is his thing, and, like Spider-Man, it's never been about how hard of a punch he can take, but how darned hard it is to actually land that punch. Perhaps, with eight armored goons rocket-punching into him, Brin ran out of places to dodge... Better scripting would have made that explicit, and could have been squeezed into a single panel, perhaps taken from the two entire pages that were otherwise frittered away on Circadia Senius impoliticly referring to a lady's age.

On that note, two thoughts;

Naltor has some pretty friggin' awesome background scenery. Alien and organic and wow, purple and green? From the world that brought us fashion-plate Nura? Oh, my. Naltorian fashion-sense must have skipped Nura entirely, to our great fortune.

'The Guardians, least wise of the immortals.' Really? Less wise than the Controllers, who build (and lose control of) Sun-Eaters for fun and profit? I mean, let's face it, Harm, there are some pretty flat-out dumb immortals in the DCU...

Yeah, the Time Trapper and Vandal Savage come to mind instantly.

I half expected Dream Girl to be given the ring for a second there...
Can you imagine the sheer power a GL would command if they had the ability to see into the future? What a friggin' cool idea that would be!

(and maybe they just might do that very thing if they are, in fact, building an army of Lanterns for the 31st century)

It may also just be creative license on the cover to show that he's sleeping with a Legionnaire. He might not actually remove the ring in the story itself.

He has to to get his gloves off.

i think the guardian's comment can have some fact to it...considering that the guardians didnt learn their lessons.

-not reacting fast enough to the first crisis.
-not helping out their "favorite" green lantern hal jordan when he was suffering.
-not telling the truth about the being that's the avatar of the white lantern.
-not evolving themselves like Ganhet did to be a more effective and hands on guardian.

I guess the problem with that sort of thing is that, as someone who hasn't read much of the latest Green Lantern stuff, I don't have any idea what any of those things are about. Nor, as a Legion fan, do I really think I *need* to know about 20th century Geoff Johns storylines, just as I don't really expect to need to know who Damian Wayne is, or whether or not 'Sword of the Atom' is still in continuity to make sense of something being said in a Legion of Super-Heroes story set 1000 years later.

Sure, Harmonia Li said 'least wise,' but she could have, much more accurately, said 'least relevant to this comic book.'

yet some of what happend in the 21st century can be touched on in the legion...since it is the same universe. You don't have to know everything but gotta respect its a shared universe.

I get Brightest Day but I haven't actually waded through it.
sigh
Who is the White Lantern?
I've been dying to find out.

And why does Dyogene keep picking the wrong people?
I thought that the rings themselves picked their new user.

lol!
And very astute!

Something else else to do with fact that the GL planet Mogo no longer exists as a guiding force which has prevented rings from seeking new bearers on their own.

No much happens in the issue, other than Harmonia Li giving off even more sinister vibes, poor Kimball Zendak being assassinated (though you'd assume that SP's would keep their landing bays under much heavier surveillance), and the "revelation" of Shady being with Earthman. Have never got the impression that Niedrigh was a true xenophobe, (as such a person would have never sought out Legion membership in the first place), merely one in word, and only when it served his own personal agenda. Therefore his "betrayal" of the cadre of "Earthers for Earth" leadership was not much of a surprise. Still wondering if "Nura" is really a Durlan plant, and it is his desperate search for the captive Dream Girl is what is preventing Thom from returning from the 21st Century...

Interesting posit, and, in light of her sudden blondeness, amusing. (Although the Durlan infiltrators seem to be more likely to be recognized by distorted eyes and facial features, and not incorrect hair-color...)

It is a bit odd that Dawnstar and Gates are still just sort of chilling on Naltor, for no apparent reason, other than to be there and look unimpressed when Harmonia Li rejects the ring.

Didn't they have stuff they were supposed to be doing? Something else else involving the Titanian refugees? Wasn't Gates complaining about all the teleporting he was going to have to do? Didn't Cosmic Boy send out an 'all hands on deck' signal, and shouldn't Gates have gotten to the Painted Desert camp before even Earth-Man with his terribly convenient super-speed?

Guess not. Gates had to be there to squint a buggy squint at the High Seers unseemly May-December schoolboy crush on Harmonia Li, after all... That cradle-robbing cougar, he's only like, ninety! She could be his grandmother! Shameless! /fans self

Same with Mon-El and Polar Boy. Polar Boy visited Tharr with Sun Boy many issues of Adventure ago, and never came back. Mon-El was sent to dump off an ice asteroid 'somewhere between here and Tharr' three issues ago, and despite being able to fly at near light speed, hasn't been seen since (and the mission monitor board suggests that he's actually *on* Tharr, for exactly what reason, is unclear. Is he celebrating his new bachelorhood by getting into a cool moresome with Brek and some Tharran hotties? And by 'hotties,' I mean frosties).

Mon-El, Dawnstar, Gates, Wildfire, perhaps Tyroc (if he can still teleport), should *all* appear in a flash of light and a crack of thunder when Cosmic Boy calls for 'everyone' to show up. Instead, we saw the same people we've seen several issues in a row, plus Shrinking Violet.

So many players, Paul is kinda scattering them around, and, it seems, keeping them off-screen without any real rationale, other than the 'meta' rationale of needing to keep them off-screen so that he can focus on the others.

Even then, the absence of XS (who also should have been at the Painted Desert camp before the echo of Cosmic Boy's call to arms made it across the room), Star Boy, Bouncing Boy, Duplicate Damsel, etc. is kind of jarring.

It would be unrealistic (and cruel to the new artist) to expect to see everybody in the first issue or two, but cutting out some of the increasingly annoying pop-ups detailing everyone's names, homeworlds and powers, to put in room for name-drops like 'Mon-El took some time off to go drown his sorrows with the finest Rimborian hookers and blow' or 'Tyroc is on Marzal, celebrating the birth of his and Saucy's second child' would be nice.

Nobody has thought that Earth Man can be actually Mon-El disguised and only Shaddy to know the truth?

Certainly fits with him displaying super-strength (and possibly also super-speed) in this issue.

Why he'd give a speech about tolerance to Sun Boy, with no one else there to hear it, remains unclear.

Hey yeah! Or maybe it's Shady who's a Durlan spy and that's why she acting so out of character!

Oh wait .... did she actually use her shadow-casting powers in the last few issues? Let me go back and look ...

Yeah, Shady uses her powers in this issue on the double-splash page.

If you ask me, the most likely explanation behind Shady/EM (and SG/CB over in Adventure) is bad writing. Dragging Legionnaires down into the sewer is a quick and easy shortcut to characterization. Much more of this and the Levitz3 Legion can be classified as soft porn.

Wasn't Gigi Cusimano referred to as "Chief" in #1? With that being the case, why was Zendak also referred to as Chief in #5? I understand people might still call him that even if he had retired, but the scene seemed to indicate he was still in charge.

Seems pretty unlikely they would have such an agreement, unless both Shady and Mon-El were comfortable for several years with Tinya popping in unannounced.

Which has all sorts of scandalous implications, in itself. Tinya is the one Legionnaire who could visit Mon in the Zone, after all.

I wonder if Tinya, Shady, Mon and Jo are swingers?

Ha ha...swingers or all have sex together...Interesting option.

Or maybe Mon-el just liked his quarters better.

I've been enjoying the series so far, despite its apparent clumsiness. Honestly though, I expected that from a writer that's been out of the game for 20 years. As far as I can see, each issue has just gotten better. We're already seeing some of what made him great back in the day, with two- to three-page scenes moving back and forth between subplots. I think he's doing a pretty good job of getting a good portion of the team on the page and as he gets more comfortable, we'll see more of them at the right times. I'm basically viewing this as Season One of Star Trek: The Next Generation. It'll take a little time for Paul to get totally back up to speed as a writer, but once he does...

As for the Earth Man plot, I'm trusting Paul to take it someplace interesting and credible. Keep in mind that this is the same writer who had an impostor in the Legion for over a year's worth of stories. There's plenty that he's not telling us...yet.

I do agree that the art has been inconsistent. I'm finding it hard to warm to Cinar's work. Given some of the spectacular artists who have graced the Legion's pages, I'd really like to see Yildiray's game kicked up a notch. Portela's stuff in this issue was nice, but also inconsistent. Some faces were wildly expressive and some, not so much (Dawny and Gates look like they're asleep in their last panel). It'll be nice to see Jimenez take on the team next issue.

I actually thought this issue was a little disappointing, because it was mostly a series of fight scenes and plot. And I much prefer character development to plot, at least where the Legion is concerned. Oh well, I'm still looking forward eagerly to the next one.

I'll think about it more after I've caught up on sleep. And I'll add that I'm irritated at fans who keep doggedly complaining that "Shady left Mon-El for this loser?!" Uh, it's already been established that they were split up beforehand. Yeesh. Enough already!

The worst aspect of the pairing (if that's what it is) would be how little build-up we got. It just seems rushed and forced. I like my space-soap, too-- but, maybe not quite so heavy-handed.

We don't see that Shady broke up with Lar before EM was forced to join the Legion.
She was with Lar during Lo3Ws.
It is not crazy to think that their break-up involved Shady's interest in Kirt.
We just don't know exactly what her interest IS in him.

It's also true that she might have just decided one day to just dump him, but there was no indication that their relationship was in trouble in the Baxter series and nothing up to the point that Levitz took over.

If she just lost interest, which is totally out of character, and 'dumped' Lar with no explaination or empathy for a man that she has loved totally for the last, 6 to 8 years, comic time, the story telling is MORE than heavy handed.
The only reason I can think that she'd treat Lar so coldly, is that she WANTS his to be offended and get as far away as possible - Tharr and/or Daxam.

You may be right, but if you are, this isn't my Shadow Lass, not the one I remember OR the one I want to know.

And Durlan's were never shown to worship Brande before, that I remember.
They HAVE been shown to have Brande as a leader or of the leader cast, since Cham was considered a leader.
Was that in the original boot?
And if so, is that what Paul is building on?

His status certainly wasn't mentioned by Brande in his will.

Ok, I will reply to you here since I think I was the first fan to say almost exactly that when this issue first came out.
Speaking for myself only here ... when I said " she left the company of a noble man like Monel for that???" it seems like I was stating that I felt Shady hooked up with E-Man while she was still 'with' Monel. That's not at all what I meant. I meant that, ok fine, she left Monel for whatever reasons ... (a span of time goes by) ... THEN she gets together with ... that???
Meaning she leaves Monel ... then LATER gets with the loser, or yet another way of looking at it, she leaves Monel and then some time shortly after that decides she likes bigotted, narrow-minded people more than her boyfriend of years and years. Shortly thereafter she decides she waited long enough now (what, two weeks, one month maybe?), realizes she craves the company of another person so she sets her sights on E-Man.
Ok? Makes sense?
Hope that clears up where I'm coming from with my comment on page three of this thread.

P.S. There is no way this is Shady, but if it is then she has an hidden ulterior motive.

[snip]

Yes, thanks. But I wasn't just talking about your comments, fk. I've heard it from other people on other fan spaces, too.

Quote

P.S. There is no way this is Shady, but if it is then she has an hidden ulterior motive.

Possibly, but even if it is Shady acting on her own free will, I don't want a perfectly good character dead or maimed or whatever because of bad writing. I've known friends IRL who did actually get mixed up with bad partners, and even they didn't always know why. They may have exasperated the hell out of me in the process, but I didn't just dismiss them from my own life unless they made it impossible to do anything else.

After her tirade against the Oans, beginning to lean towards her being a Manhunter...

So I finally actually got a chance to buy and read it - not super impressed. I think this is the weakest issue since the new series started.

The main criticism for myself is being told how the regugee camp fight scene went down (in Jeckie's case, in great detail) rather than having it shown.

There are some other things I am not super happy about (Shady and Earth-Man, the Legion's general poor showing against a bunch of guys with guns, Gates and Dawny hanging round on Naltor for no discernable reason), but I am willing to give Paul the benefit of the doubt on this stuff. The only thing I really think is poor storytelling is the aforementioned fight scene.

Having said that, I wonder if some of the pacing issues in this series so far are just teething problems as Paul and Yildiray get their working relationship figured out? I can't help but wonder if maybe that fight scene at the refugee camp wasn't actually plotted panel for panel, and the script was forced to explain holes in the art? Dunno.

There were definitely some positives as well - I really liked seeing Circadia Senius again and I actually don't mind the development with Zendak on its own as long as it leads to a good story (though the Legion's supporting cast has been fairly well decimated in the past couple of years!)

It will be interesting to see how next issue pans out with Jiminez at the art helm.

You're not just speaking for yourself, Future King. That's my opinion of the matter too. Shady is definitely slumming for lack of a better word, if she's gone from Mon-El, one of the noblest heroes of all time, to jumping in the sack with a megalomaniacal racist freak like Earth man. It just doesn't fly in my book at all.

Raz, you make such a good point about the Levitz/Cinar team meshing together.

Every artist will interpret the script differently.

Some will adhere to what is there only, while someone more seasoned might know to include a little panel of Jeckie being blasted or whatever or at least shown it in the background.

I think the Levitz/Giffen team has been so succesful because Keith was way more involved than just drawing the scripts "as is".

Levitz will need to be really specific for a new artist.

Thanks for the support Jim. Shady's actions don't fly in my book either.

Are there still Manhunters in the DCU?
If so, that's a good guess.

And I don't want PERFECT characters, I just want ones that make sense.
That's the writers job and there's a very long history with these characters.

THIS character hasn't shown herself to be this way, either to Lar, the Legion or to honor.
There HAS to be more than that she got bored, dumped Lar and choose almost immediately to have sex with EM.
There's a mystery afoot.

Or it could simply be a plot point just to get them caught in bed? Still believing Shady has higher motives than just a bump and grind.

Yes there are...but if any of them suriving to the 31st century right now is questionable...(there's nothing that says explicitly that Laurel Kent is a manhunter now...remember she was put in as one because Superboy was taken from the legion as the person who was going to be Superman...since he's back...and since he did marry Lois...and she does look like the woman he's going to marry...I say she exists as a descendant.

As for Harmonia being a manhunter...hmmmm possibly but i dont get that "feeling" from her...after all I would think she would be the one to lead the charge into discovering hte origins of the universe out of disrespect for the Guardians...but she was the only discenting voice.

I would advise everyone in here to pick up this
Tales of the Green Lantern Corps Annual #2 (1986),
it details this: Sodam Yat is a prophesied future member of the Green Lantern Corps, created by Alan Moore and is first mentioned in "Tygers", a story in Tales of the Green Lantern Corps Annual #2. He is mentioned in passing to Abin Sur by a demon named Qull of the Five Inversions, who had been imprisoned on the planet Ysmault by the Guardians of the Universe. As a Daxamite (a race which descended from Kryptonians with inherent Superman-like powers) with a power ring, he would be nearly unstoppable. Despite this, in Qull's prophecy, he is still defeated as part of the final destruction of the Green Lantern Corps.

this gives some structure to what's going on with Sodam and Oa now..with some differences.

At this point, I am wondering if there is more to Shady & Earth Man than meets the eye (There is definitely more to Harmonioa Li than meets the eye!). Sureley it's not quite what it appears on the last page. I am still wondering if Earth Man's apparent change of hearth is genuine. And what is up with Tinya? Hasn't she ever heard of knocking?!

By the way, the SP buildings look like tennis racket handles. I do not like Timber Wolf and Ultra Boy's costumes. Too much going on with them.

I'm with Sun Boy on the Titanians. I would find a mind reader far more terrifying than a shape shifter. Those Durlans are awfully shifty, though (pun intended).

I love Brainy's comment that there's a "97.5% chance that by the time I could get there, the combat would be resolved...one way or the other."

I still say Dyogene is going to turn into a Guardian.

it's not Shady. it's Yera. she's part of the Durlan revenge Squad.

GN just broke my brain.

Hey!!!!!!
Now THAT sounds viable! I like that guess because it totally makes sense ... Yera would be the perfect "mole" within the Legion to extract revenge against their newest xenophobe member.
That would truly be a great twist.

Uh oh, I just thought of Gim though if that WERE to happen ....
Can you imagine what he'd go through if the woman he learned to love, after he thought he was falling in love with the girl he was infatuated with for so many years, suddenly broke the Legion code for killing by offing E-Man?
Holy s@#! the guy would probably implode!

But Yera hasn't appeared in this series, has she? Wouldn't new readers wonder why this character popped up out of nowhere?

Yes they would. What a great way to introduce this character to the readers, who could double back now and pick up back issues of the Levitz Legion and find out more about the story of Yera.

The more I think about it the more it makes sense that Yera is impersonating Shady. She's done it before with Vi, right?
Yera strikes me as the easily influenced type.
She might help her fellow Durlans with their cause if they appealed to her sense of nationality or something.
It's certainly a viable possibility and would explain Shady's out-of-character behaviour lately.

If that's true where is the real Shady I wonder??

Quote

...She might help her fellow Durlans with their cause if they appealed to her sense of nationality or something.

Nah. Doesn't work for me. Canonically, Yera was raised in U.P. territory. I can't see her suddenly as a born-again nationalist. Not without some kind of explanation or build-up.

Also, it would be a retread of old ground, which I could frankly do without. Hearkening back that way doesn't make a current, weak story better. It just cheapens the memory of the original, stronger story.

This kind of "twist" would irk the hell out of me, frankly.

Given that DC is well know for doing exactly that, it just makes it more likely. I say be prepared to be irked and if it doesn't happen then whatever half-baked explaination they do come up with will seem so much better in comparison.

Of course if it is Yera she could just be really miffed with Earth Man after his shoddy treatment of her during the Action story.

She could be impersonating Shady as she would be the most plausible of all the unattached Legionnaires who would do that sort of thing.

The Yera thing sounds feasible, though I will wonder how Earth Man could stoop to sleeping with a stinkin' alien. ;-)

Night Girl seems a more likely candidate to jump in the sack with him than Shady to me. She could be trying to get back at Cos for dumping her. Shady has no excuse that I can see.

Yes, it MUST be Yera! That awful hair she was sporting during the original Earth-Man/JLE story and L3W was the obvious clue, people! :nod;

Maybe it's not even Yera. Maybe that 'hair' is some parasitic alien that afflicts Durlans and makes them behave all weird!

Oo. I missed that. When did that happen?

Off panel but heavily implied during Lo3W.

So really you did not miss anything

Lots of things are off panel, now-a-days.
sigh

Yera has always been able to 'do' hair, Cham, too.

I'm pretty sure it's Shady with EM.
I just don't know why.

Grife!

That's what I said somewhere earlier in this thread, and suggested Jekkie as a candidate, too, but nobody reacted for some reason.

I hate when that happens.

But wouldn't Earth Man be able to sense the difference with his ill defined ability absobtion ability so Yera wouldn't fool him? Surely he wouldn't go near Shady either as she's definitely not human. I also think it'll be Night Girl.

I don't think it's Shady. There is a durlan subplot going on...and Shady leaving Mon-El is out of character also. She's a durlan. Mr. Levitz loves that Shakespearean trick where the person is not who we think it is thing...Reflecto, Yera, Sensor Girl, Rond Vidar as a GL.

Speaking of GLs...Harmonia Li...agent of the Controllers maybe? Anyways I like her!

Nice to see some of my faves...yes I voted for Sensor Girl and Timberwolf for leader and deputy leader way back when...

The art is looking good...improves each issue. Some panels are better than others ofcourse.

I just can't get into Earth Man. Maybe it's the sideburns? I hope he dies protecting the Legion...give him a statue...move on.

Don't think Yera would do something behind the Legion's back...but she did get beat pretty badly by Earth Man.

How much fun would it be if it was Chameleon Chief or King (i forget if they are the same person or not)! Earth Man would really hate aliens then! (or he will really really like them)

It happens to me all of the time.
sigh

If it IS someone besides Shady, then I agree with something someone else has already said - where's Shady?

And Harbinger's statement makes sense, too, EM could find out immediately who it is by just touching them.
And he's certainly touching whoever that is.

If Sensor Girl was behind all this then E-Man wouldn't know it wasn't the real Shady, right?
That's the nature of her enhanced power ... total sensory deception, when necessary that it.

Wait a minute. Earth Man absorbed Jeckie's powers last issue, right? He could be creating an illusion of Shady himself. Though what his motive could possibly be is beyond me.

That's a strong possibility too!

The only motive I can see would be to sow discord in the Legion. If he was just using it for a 'sex doll' he would be in his quarters and not Shady's. Of course, creating an image of her having sex with him in her quarters would imply that he knew Tinya would catch them and be upset by it.... Not sure the character is supposed to be that bright, but I guess it could be. Personally, I figure that it is just a bad writing and an awful characterization of Shady by a writer that is out of practice writing her.. or who is getting senile. One of those....

There's no need to insult the writer this way.

[raises hand]

No kidding, rhino.

It doesn't even make sense. The dude is 54 years old, according to wiki. If he's ready for the old folks' home at this point, I'm not gonna' be too far behind him.

Sorry to disagree with you Iam Legion, but I happen to think Paul is a great writer. The man is a thinker ... and the thing about his style that I enjoy so much is that there are many layers to his plots and sub-plots.
Keep in mind this is a man with many decades of writing experience under his belt, so his thought processes are complex. Nothing seems to make sense, until .... then BAM!

That's Paul Levitz' style.
Let's give the man a chance to wow us shall we?

lil'rhino: I call them like I see them and the writing has just been plain BAD in for this incarnation of the Legion. Maybe not Three-Boot bad, but bad.

cleome: Senility, especially Alzheimer related senility, can hit a person at an early age. No implication as to your state of reason is to be implied or infered from this statement since onset of senility varies greatly from one person to another. Also, I don't think that he is really becoming senile, I think he is just out of practice writing these characters well and he has been given a bad situation ('The Lightning Saga' and Lo3W following decades of retconned and rebooted Legion following CoIE plus his own reputation as a genius to live up to) to deal with. So far the writing is awful, but he could very well turn it around and if so, I'll be amoungst those singing his praises. Until then the writing stinks and I'll say so.

future king: Don't be sorry. You are completely entitled to your oppinion. And... you may be correct in saying the 'BAM!' will come and it will all make sense... I sure hope so. Until that happens though, I can only judge the writing on what has been shown and that has become almost painful to read. Even allowing him slack for comparisons to 'what could have been if DC hadn't messed up the Legion with CoIE' it just falls short. The characterizations are off. The questions are annoying and distracting. The 'drama' is contrived, over the top and yet still not riveting. It is just not entertaining. My enjoyment for this series is just not there and my love for these characters dies a little with each new poorly written story.

I have no problem with you hating the writing and expressing it.
My problem is only with the personal insult you used. What seperates LW from most message boards is respect. For each other & for comic book professionals.
So feel free to like or dislike-your reasons are totally valid & welcome, and your posts are informed & concise.
Just please refrain from personal insults against anyone, as they have no place here.

[snip]

Iam Legion wrote:

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...I think he is just out of practice writing these characters well and he has been given a bad situation ('The Lightning Saga' and Lo3W following decades of retconned and rebooted Legion following CoIE plus his own reputation as a genius to live up to) to deal with...

And if you'd just written that in the first place, I don't think you would have raised anyone's eyebrows. Certainly not mine.

I don't even have to believe that Levitz or any other pro is a "genius" to figure that calling a writer/artist's mental state into question here is generally Not A Real Great Idea. Ageism-- on a board where a great many of us aren't exactly spring chickens? Also, Not A Real Great Idea.

You have got to get over the idea that age and mental state are intrinsically linked. I know a teenager that is fruity as a loon and a woman that is sharper than you or I could ever hope to be at the age of 105. Ageism? That is funny given that I am older than you (based on your post reguarding your age) and probabably older than 90% + people on this board. I never insulted his age, I insulted his WRITING. Granted, my phrasing wasn't great. Maybe I could have put it: 'And from the writing I would guess it comes either from someone terribly out of practice or from the terminally senile rather than from this well known author'? Because I certainly didn't intend it as the 'personal insult' that some of you take it as. Honestly, I don't know him from Adam other than through his writing and I could not care less what kind of idividual he is as long as his writing entertains me.
Basically: I don't know or care enough about him to bother trying to insult him, but the writing better be good or I will complain like nobody's buissness.
Better?

[snip]

Iam Legion wrote:

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You have got to get over the idea that age and mental state are intrinsically linked.

Kindly do some backtracking, in case you've forgotten which one of us initially used the term "senile."

I'm... gonna' go be over there now, for the forseeable future.

No need to do any backtracking. You are the one that is still erroneously linking Senility to age. Being Senile does not have to mean being of advanced age. Senility can be induced through a number of circumstances including drug usage or physical injury to the brain. Advanced age is not the sole cause of Senility, even though a small number of people become Senile in their advanced age. There was no implied insult to the author or anyone else's AGE in my initial post except what you seem to want to see. And that is the last I plan on saying on Senility because this has just gotten so far off topic that it is ridiculous.
To make this clear: Any personal insult I made to the author on any subject other than his writing was unintentional... The only thing I intend to insult is his awful, un-entertaining WRITING so far on the new series (and in Adventure Comics). Any other insult, implied, inferred or purely imagined by others is purely acidental and I appologize. Let the normally scheduled conversation about the comics resume...

Er...
Yes, it does.

Alzhiemer's Syndrome is the one that can come at an early age.
It appears to be like senility, at first and sometimes, but it isn't the same.

Anyway, I don't think that things have to be so PC around here.
People shouldn't have to be totally afraid of what they say, do they.

And if anyone is getting 'senile' here, it's me and I'm not 60 yet.
And I'm not offended.

Paul might look at things differently, though.

I think this is the real Shady and that we are just looking at a characterization shakedown. From a creative viewpoint, a radical personality change (or featuring an aspect of a personality that we haven't seen before) is exciting, dynamic writing. The only thing missing is sex. No, wait, it's got sex. Perfect.

From a character point of view, I can totally see Shady playing out "the bad girl" role. Can you imagine how hopelessly boring it must be to be Mon-El's girlfriend? I can...and have...often. But seriously, Shady has always been attracted to powerful men. It is exciting to be intimate with raw power. Mon-el's as powerful as ever. That hasn't changed. So I figure the excitement is gone or diminished. Earth-Man is powerful, and in terms of personality is the polar opposite of Lar. Of course, she'll be showering a lot to get the ick off of her.

Well, I for one have lost all respect for the character of Shadow Lass, thanks to this issue and #6. I look forward to seeing how Levitz will redeem her in the readers' minds. (provided of course that everyone feels as I do, which I'm sure some don't ... just sayin'!)