http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/05/12/a-load-of-covers-for-dc-books-in-august/lsh_cv23/

Wasn't a big surprise but definetly sad. Looks like from the cover image at least 11 of the current team bites it in the final.

It is a bit odd to bring on Maquire for the last issue...

Unfortunately, this is not a bad thing, imo. Mid-Volume 6 thru Volume 7 has been the most lifeless LSH run I can ever remember. Even Threeboot had more going for it at times. If there is a next incarnation already planned, I hope Paul is not involved. Hate to say this, as his long run in the '80s was one of my very favorites.

Let me put this in context for myself ... 11 deaths in 20 pages.



I can only shake my head. Is this a new record!?!?

That's a death on every spread if there weren't so many advertisements!


Could those pictures really represent the dead?

... and what a poor cover and send off to a book. I love Maguire but ... it's just not a big cover for a series finale.

Bleeding Cool seems to think this is just a fold over to Justice Legion ...

Complete with controversial tweets and quotes.

More shit storm media buzz spectacle from DC jerk faces ... and nothing under the hood.

Is there a flip the bird graemlin? >)

Here's the article you mentioned for everyone to read:
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/05...t-is-keith-giffens-comic-on-the-horizon/

I agree with Paladin. The bigger problem seems to be that the Legion has been primarily about apocalyptic endings, and only that, for a LONNNG time. Maybe since Levitz's anniversary adult Legion story, certainly since Magic Wars/5 Years Later, then the reboots, which started out young and lively but decayed even more rapidly to self-destruction, then Johns brought back the "originals," but only in a "grim future" sort of vein (though not as grim as it could have been), and Levitz has done little or nothing to give us anything that feels viable for the long run. I'm tired of reading about the end of the future. But maybe this is just what comics IS now, in general?

A very sad day indeed.

Agreed. Since it's introduction, the Legion has had a distinctly hopeful feel. Not only does humanity still exist 1000 years later, but things are better, and young idealistic heroes take inspiration from Superman (and the heroic age) of the 20th century.

Hope has gone out of favor, and for decades, it seems, it's been all about despair and death and deconstruction. Every single big arc is about tearing everything down, and pissing on the hopeful idealism of the Silver Age.

I also agree with the apocalyptic ending meme taking precedence over the traditional bright future that once was the Legion's hallmark.

For me, a hardcore Legion fan since S/LSH #218, the Legion hasn't been very much fun to read since the end of the Emerald Vi storyline in the reboot, leading to the T20/T30 split. I held out great hope for the threeboot, but it crashed and burned quickly.

Levitz' return has been damn disappointing as hell, both from the storytelling in individual issues and the overall editorial direction. But then, so was Shooter's.

And "Justice Legion?" I dunno. Total meh here. I'll give it a try, of course, but I fear something that is so NOT the Legion written and edited by people with no conception of what made the Legion what it was.

Really, I'm to the point where I'd almost rather DC let the Legion rest in peace. After all, there's a good 50 years worth of great stories for me and my Legion World pals to discuss, debate, deconstruct and otherwise relive over and over without diluting the pool with more of the same crap we've had for most of fhe past 15 years.

I've already decided to treat everything with "new 52" on it as part of a huge elseworlds event. As such, these "deaths" mean nothing.

Someday, someone will revive the real Legion of Super-Heroes, at which point we will all agree that everything from Crisis On Infinite Earths on was just a bad dream.

True, but when Levitz tried to return the Legion to a more positive, hopeful future akin to his run from the 1980's, everyone complained that it had no life and no one bought it. I guess folks like a darker, deadlier future.

We'll see, now won't we.

The sweet release of death after a prolonged torture. A shame, really. Like the three boot, this run has been an incredible disappointment.

Congratulations, DC, you've destroyed what used to be my favorite intellectual property. I will not be buying any more DC comics for the foreseeable future.

Well, if you call blowing up a Legion homeworld and having the Legion forced by the government to add a murdering racist to the team in the first issue returning to a positive, hopeful future, then, yeah, I guess that's not what I'm looking for!

It'll all be worth it when they launch the Justice Legion, with Batman 3013 and Wolverine (yeah, I know he's Marvel, but they've run out of books to put him in over there).

Although I'm sad that this book didn't make it, it really comes as no surprise. Francis' artwork is really the only good thing to have come out of this interpretation of the Legion. Paul's original run will go down in history as some of the best stuff ever written, but unfortunately he seemed to have lost his feel for the characters during his absence. Watching the team slowly butchered in more ways than one has been a painful process.

I can only hope that whatever comes next will be better, but I'm not overly optimistic.

I said this over in facebook, but I'm so relieved. This run has been painful to watch, and if i have my choice of seeing my favorite comic be put through the ringer or let it be canceled I choose the latter. Long live the Legion.

This news brought the highest number of simultaneous users to LW since the Great Relaunch of '13!

I felt a slight disturbance in the Force, as if 16,000 of voices suddenly cried out in anguish... but also sort of sighed with relief and resignation.

The really sad part is that the series is going to end which the complete destruction of the team. No they couldn't just cancel it, they had kill or maim half the members (many of whom have been brought back just to kill) and destroy the 31st century universe.

Well at least we have beautiful artwork by Frances this week

Agreed. It's one thing if they simply cancelled the title, it's quite another to slaughter most of the team in doing so. It's disrespectful to a degree.

*HUGE sigh*

At least we;ll still have our back issues and our fan fiction...

I have to agree with everyone here. This volume has been very painful to read.

Every issue just felt empty of any real substance and I honestly just couldn't connect to it.

I can't even tell you what any of the issues were really about.




yes we will and the wondrous fan fictions of our fellow Legion Worlder's

which by the way if you want to read an incarnation of how this volume could have really been then you need to read Razsolo's fic. Its amazing!


http://postlo3w.livejournal.com/calendar

I think this may be just the push I needed to stop buying comics completely.

I used to feel that the Legion being cancelled would be what would do it for me as well. But that was before I discovered the best comics were mostly published outside the Big Two and that many of those were outside the superhero genre.

But I can see where you're coming from, Rocks.

Darkseid's curse is fulfilled once more! Levitz NEVER should have written that story.

On a more serious note, it's got to be harder than ever to write a book about the future of the DC universe when it's entire history has been wiped away and much of the newly revealed stuff makes no sense at all. Justice Legion will have the same problem, unless they actively tie in to what's happening in the current day books. But that didn't help demon nights or Stormwatch much.

Well as the solicit says:

"... and the future of the DCU is changed in a way you’ll never expect!"

Except that if the new Legion series is yet-another-further-still reboot, how does anything they do matter in the future stories?

I'm in the same boat. There were times when LSH was the only book I was buying, but there's enough good stuff coming out from every corner of the comic world right now to keep me going.

Not sure how I feel about this really which is the first time that has happened with a Legion cancellation. Nonplussed is probably the most accurate term.

If Justice Legion is by Giffen/Dematties/Maguire as Bleeding Cool is trying to infer it may be ok as Maguire as always good and both writers have turned out excellent Legion stories in the past.

I just hope they give it some time to rest before relaunching.

I've always been DC-only with a very few exceptions. Since the "New 52" (blecch!), I find I just don't care as much. The comics I love (mainly JSA and LSH) are either gone or going. Earth 2 is interesting, but it's not JSA. Legion has been disappointing. At various times in my life, I've taken breaks from comics. Maybe it's time for another. I'll stay on LW, of course.

Agreed. I'm a Legion fan through and through so I'll be on Legion World, but I think I may be hitting the back issue bins for a while instead of purchasing anything new. To me, there's really nothing of interest that i'd be willing to spend four bucks on these days.

I humbly recommend the two pronged approach of:

Re-reading the Legion through the Archives!

Trying out some of the utterly fantastic Image and other creator-owned comics that are providing the comic book industry with a modern Renaissance while DC crumbles (and Marvel is successfully piggybacking on it).

I with you on this. there really is nothing about comics these days that's keeping my attention.

and i do hope they give the legion a rest and not another instant reboot!

Sadder more for what this represents for the property and the message it sends than for the loss of this particular iteration of the title.

Here's hoping the next team does a better job.

I agree with Cobie! It's really a pretty awesome period for comics, with tons of groovy stuff like Atomic Robo, Bandette, and IDW's Popeye series! Not to mention groovy stuff from Image!

*sigh* And it's been far, FAR too long since the Legion was anything approaching "groovy".

Here's Paul Levitz's response to the Legion's cancellation as published by Bleeding Cool:

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/05/14/dc/

Thanks for sharing. Lots of interesting tweets from Mark Waid there!

(and Phil Jimenez is )

I knew there was a reason why I liked Waid. Those tweets were great.

Waid is funny.

Me however, I think this cancellation comes just in time for the PR push at the next comicon to "announce" Justice Legion as a new book.

This marketing stuff sure is tiring. constant repackaging.

and for the record ... I never thought it was that difficult to follow the Legion with 25 heroes. Even without an introductory title page or those labels they do now with the name and power set.

Oh, Waid is hilarious!

"Because it's not named the 'Small Band of Super-Heroes,' ffs."

Oh, oh, we can't possibly make a team book / show with a team / cast of more than the absolutely-required-by-formula five-to-seven members! Nevermind that other people did so successfully for forty odd years before that marketing formula was invented...

I'm not what I'm going to do after LSH #23. I've said before that the Legion is the reason that I collect comic books. My pull list is down to just the Legion, the Super titles, Earth 2 & Worlds' Finest. The only one that I'm really enjoying is Worlds' Finest. I find myself not liking anything about modern comic book story telling. I'd even like to see them go back to newsprint on the interior pages.

Indeed, LW, thanks for sharing the farewell message from Paul Levitz, and especially the tweets within from Mark Waid.

I didn't much care for many of the changes Mark made in the 3-boot, but this definitely shows he was a Legion fan, and I would echo all of his sentiments time 100.

I haven't had time to keep up with all the news lately ... can someone post a link and/or summarize what "Justice LEgion" is supposed to entail? If it's not just another name for the LSH in the 31st century, ... well then it's small consolation.

As I've already whined about in probably a less appropriate thread, this REALLY feels like an end that's final, as I don't really see a way back. Too many re-boots have failed, they won't do that again. And if they pick up where they left off ... what would be the impetus for starting where they left off? And where would they start? And could they even start in a way that new readers would know what was going on?

Maybe a spinoff of the Legion they are showing now in the Smallville book? (in which Braniac 5 is inexplicably caucasian! grumble.)... I don't know.

OR, perhaps it is an interesting parallel to the past that we've been getting Legion back-ups in Superman/Action ... perhaps they will rise form the ashes as they did in the early 70s?

I desperately hope so, but breaths are not being withheld.

It's a spinoff of Smallville the TV show, where they didn't "do" bodypaint (James Marsters played B5 there, and he wasn't green).

Marsters was B1 (a machine, ergo color irrelevant), not B5 (presumably a Coluan). We never got to see B5, although he was mentioned.

http://smallville.wikia.com/wiki/Brainiac#Season_Ten

[Besides, the point is that they're keeping designs to a level that might have appeared on the TV show. Body-paint isn't something they did, ergo he couldn't be green ANYWAY.]

I stopped reading over a year ago. I mentioned in AFOB's old thread why I considered the whole thing a lost cause, and it has little to do with the talents of the individual creators involved.

Sorry, but mainstream comics in general are just not a great entertainment value when I have little money. "Entertainment" should not constantly frustrate and confuse a person while leaving them broke... unless they're a Cubs fan or something. Then apparently it's normal.

I wish everyone involved good luck in their future projects.

I stand corrected!
Wow, I watched that show religiously, yet forgot that he re-appeared later as B5. I must be getting old!

Oh well, 'least now I feel better about the non-green-ness in the comic. Thanks!

I'm not sure this is an entirely accurate assessment. The post-Zero Hour reboot was successful for around 10 years, before DnA ran it into the ground. I know a lot of people here love their work on the title, but I always felt it suffered from exactly the problem some have already mentioned in this thread: the Legion doesn't really work as a "dark" book; it needs to be set in a hopeful future. DnA's run was marked by a hopelessness that finally did it in. Up until DnA's run, the reboot was clearly following the bright, shiny future template.

I'll even add that the 5YL run, much as I actually love the storytelling, ultimately has the same problem. There comes a point with that kind of story where you just don't have anywhere to go but up; you can only plumb the depths for so long before you hit bottom and need to start climbing again. I think most comics in general are suffering that problem (how much can Batman lose before he's no longer believable as a functioning human being?). More and more, I'm finding that my current favorite super-hero comics are ones with a lighter tone, like Waid's Daredevil or Fraction's Hawkeye. Super-heroes are a kind of inherently ridiculous concept; taking them too seriously ruins the mood.

If Justice Legion is the successor to LSH, it will succeed with LSH fans if it can restore that hopeful future. Otherwise it's just more of the same and I think we've demonstrated that we're not interested in reading that.

I just found about about the Legion being cancelled tonight! I don't understand any of this! This latest incarnation of the Legion started off so great (with the Justice League crossover). It was promising and was the closest thing to returning this book back to its original 1980's glory. Then "The New 52" happened (which actually SHOULDN'T have affected our 31st century heroes), and everything crapped out!!! This should NOT have happened and definitely not under the Levitz regime!!! The only thing I can think is that this was "deliberate sabotage" to make way for "something new" in September. I agree, I don't think I could have stomached another reboot, but I can't say that cancellation was unexpected especially with the lack luster crap that was coming out of the 30th century as of late. I'm disappointed in the way Levitz allowed things to play out with the Legion book. I thought he had more love and pride for these characters but he either lost his drive or something, but then he should have declined and turned over the resigns. The Levitz I knew from the "old days" would never have allowed the recent writing & artistic debacle (if you can call any of the last fews months "writng" or "art"). Mr. Levitz, I've respected you and you made me a fan of the Legion (initially) 33 years ago. If the Legion returns (in some form), please have a nice life and please reframe from every returning to the halls of the 31st century again, until you regain that passionate flame of love and caring for these characters (and fans) that you once had.

Since you're catching up, let me be the first to tell you that things behind the curtain over at DC are not so rosy these days. Since the "New 52" started, many a writer thus far have quit outright because of constant editorial meddling. If the storylines have been lacking, it may not be due to Mr. Levitz' writing. You say that you liked his stuff before pre-new 52 but not post so.... maybe he's not the person you should be angry with.

I completely agree with Georgehaze on this ^^. Also, the current storyline not only smacks of editorial intrusion, but a strong influence by Mr. Giffen in regard to the rampant indiscriminate destruction as well as the maiming and dying of Legionnaires, even though Mr. Giffen supposedly left this storyline early. Mr Levitz has always been very generous with distributing credit and praise to others when he has had success but refuses to make excuses or place blame on anyone but himself when things are not so good. This last run by Mr. Levitz is more than just a disconnect on his past work - I believe he has been in writer's handcuffs the entire time.

Do you think then that Mr. Levitz has no responsibility, that he has had no input?

Do you think the following was all DC and no Levitz:

Earth Man - a murderer as a Legionnaire? Come on!!!!!
Shadow Lass - she leaves Mon-El and then shacks up with the murderer?
Colossal Boy and Yera
Phantom Girl

I could go on.

I think that Mr. Levitz had a great deal of input, and I hold him very responsible.

Ok...I'll accept that. But something needs to be done. Don't the powers that be realize what a disaster this "New 52" has been?!? I haven't heard a positive thing about it since it began. But with that said, the 31st century should have been virtually unaffected by "these events". I don't even know what to say anymore. I just hope that there are "Fall 2013 plans" to fix everything and soon!!!

I didn't say No responsibility for the latest run, but it seems to me there has been a lot of meddling. It can't be easy to tell your story when you have to accommodate others on the fly. Remember, he knew he was going to be the next Legion writer 6 months before he began, but then was forced to adopt some of Geoff John's story seeds, including Earth Man. There was also the Green Lantern elements (due to the movie) that were probably dictated to be included in the Legion title from the publishers. The remake of the New DCU drove the retelling of the original Adventure stories with retconned events, up to and including the Fatal Five not ever being together before the current saga??? (I still don't understand the reasoning for that - what about Ferro Lad??). The crash and burn style of storytelling by Mr. Giffen is not the style of Mr. Levitz, but again was probably imposed in this latest Fatal Five saga to try to shock the sales numbers up. The only real successful stretch by Mr Levitz in the Legion the last three years (IMHO) was the Legion Academy stories, which were vintage Levitz storytelling issues including consistent artwork by Phil Jimenez, and minimal editorial intrusion.

Earth Man - As mentioned before, Paul did what he could with his inheritance.

Colossal Boy and Yera - Probably dictated more by the Legion Lost writers than by Paul Levitz.

Mon-El & Shadow Lass, Phantom Girl - Probably all Paul to shake up some older characters. similar to his recent portrayals of Brainy and Chameleon Boy. I wasn't fond of how any of these have played out either.

That is why I always enjoyed Alex Ross' bright and shiny Legion art.

Speaking of ... I could totally go for a series of Elseworlds.

Flip this shit, DC you want to give us reboots and keep inventing the wheel ...

well ... what about a reboot every year, with new takes, and new creative teams each year for a while.

Superboy's Legion was one of the best stories in recent history.

Waid's run could've been nice and a story told in 12 issues.

... Just long enough to introduce a new concept and have a few adventures and a longer overarching plot. If books are going to be written fro the trade ... then reconceptualize the books for the trade ... rather than trying to fit square blocks in triangle shaped holes.


That would take some gumption though, and creative freedom ... which is on a tight leash at Definitely Crummy, right now.

I'm ready to give up and go with current marketing philosophy BUT ... let's make the new stories go with the new packaging ... rather than what we get now .. which is just "run on sentences".

I thin the fundamental problem isn't the formats ... if they need to be packaged in this way fine, with sensationalized reinventions every year ... FINE ... but make the stories good. Don't just keep repackaging New Coke to try to get us to buy it to try it.

The Legion would actually be pretty cool in an all-New, all-Now, all-Digital format!

Out-of-continuity, digital first like Batman Beyond or Adventures of Superman might work. The limited series nature of it might entice some creators who might otherwise want no part of a Legion ongoing.

Even better... How about a "Earth-1" graphic novel, like they've done with Superman and Batman (and soon with Wonder Woman)?

The Legion got me into Comics, the top selling Team Book of the Silver Age (Shooter and Swan), DC's top selling Team Book during the Bronze Age (Cockrum and Bates, Grell and Shooter, Levitz and Sherman) Not until Wolfman and Perez started doing New Teen Titans did it become DC's 2nd best selling Team Book (Levitz and Giffen then Lightle. Then came the Crisis on Infinite Earths and Byrnes Superman and it damaged the Legion beyond repair it seems, Long Live The Legion!

It looks like I haven't missed anything giving up on US comics in 2007. I did buy the collected editions of SUPERMAN AND THE LSH and LEGION OF THREE WORLDS. I also bought one of the Levitz TPBs after Lo3W, and the LEGION/TREK crossover. I enjoyed all of those, but it looks like I'm better off just buying a collected edition once in a while than keeping up with monthly comics.

From my sporadic visits to this site, it looks like DC is revising the continuity every year or so. Meh.

what can I say.....totally disgusting. As many of you might know i have been reading and collecting this book since 1978...we have been here before...but i think there is a huge change coming, one that won't look like our beloved Legion. I will agree with others..this might be the push I need to stop reading comic's all together. As it is I am only reading Justice League (which has plummeted since Jim Lee left), Titans and Earth 2. All are luke warm at best proving I think once and for all, that the new 52 has been a piece of shit.
When I think of all the open plot lines...Where is Colossal Boy? Comet Queen? Infectious Lass? The Legion Lost group? Lightning Lad and Saturn Girl? Projectra and Karate Kid? This group needs Garth and Imra just as much as Brainy if not more so...

With any luck, The Dominators have a batch of Legionnaires that are the real Legion somewhere...taken from around the Earth War and these current Legionnaires being maimed, killed and eaten are only their CLONES! One can only hope!

If not...I love these characters and have for 35 years...I will miss them all!

The real Legion will live in my brain until I die, and so if there be an afterlife, they will live forever.

I don't know if it's because of this news or coincidental but, this past week at my local comic shop, I saw all four parts of the Legion/Teen Titans "Universe Ablaze" miniseries. It made me want to dig out my copies and read them all over again (which I did, later).

However, it got me thinking... I very much liked the 'younger' Legion of the reboot era much more than I've liked the 'adult' Legion of the post-Johns' era.

Maybe this is one of the factors in the flagging sales? Who knows.

*nod nod nod*

I know it's partially nostalgia talking, but I miss them. Granted, I don't want DC to bring them back right now. Editorial would absolutely RUIN them. I have sympathy for the fans of the "original" Legion who have had to see their favorite characters put through the ringer like this.

How much IS it your favourite comic though, when it's an entirely different version with different characterisations of what characters overlap?

True enough. But I'm a Legion fan, and no matter what incarnation, these characters are always my favorite. Granted they're not "mine", but loyalty is strong. XD!!!

It's sort of like how I prefer Star Trek over Star Wars no matter who is playing the part of Spock, you know?

Right now I'm just going to go live with my back issues and my fan fiction

I cringe at the comparison even. Star Wars isn't fit to be in the same sentence.

no winky.

This is true as Star Wars is infinitesimally better than Star Trek it doesn't even bear thinking about

Unless you mean DS9 which was better than the others but its still quite a gap

Reading this article... Is it just me or do the rest of you have a feeling that things are about to get far worse than just cancellation and rebranding?

http://www.newsarama.com/17943-levitz-hints-at-mystery-of-the-legion-s-place-in-the-dcu.html

The Legion Lost storyline just might get resolved with this... or not. Either way it at least sounds like a conclusion to the series that might allow me to feel that I have finished my collection of the original/retroboot Legion once this is all over.

The problem that I'm seeing (and, admittedly, I may be reading things into what was said that may or may not be there) is the statement that we've all thought that the Legion was in the same universe as the DCnU and that, with this final issue, what we thought we knew about the Legion may not be accurate.

So, inferring, that might imply that the current Legion is now an "alternate future", like the Reboot Legion and the Threeboot Legion. And, if that's the case, then whatever "Justice Legion" nonsense that DC has planned might involve yet another Legion (Fourboot Legion?)

If this is the case then I'm out and DC has (finally) lost a reader who has been following the Legion in all of it's incarnations since the late 1960's.

So, let me get this straight...

(1) The Original Legion is the logical extrapolation of the Superman Universe's future...
(2) "Crisis on Infinite Earths" fused together all alternate universes into one, but the Legion stayed much the same...
(3) But when Byrniac rebooted Superman's origin, Superboy got shifted into a "pocket" universe, although the Legion stayed much the same...
...although somewhere between (2) and (3) Supergirl vanished from continuity...
(4) Then Mon-El temporarily killed the Time Trapper, and the 5YL universe was created, which was a para-logical extension of the "original" Legion's future... but also creating Kid Quantum and Laurel Gand...
(5) Then there was another "crisis", alternate universes started proliferating again through "hypertime", and the Legion was changed in major ways: some of them being XS, Gates, Kinetix, Sneckie, Monstress, Shikari, and Gear... and Batch SW6...

Note: The Rokk Krinn Time Trapper claimed to have "hidden" the 5YL and Batch SW6 Legions somewhere safe...

(6) Then Superboy-Prime punched reality, and created the "threeboot" Legion universe, which turned out to be his own "home" universe, effectively creating himself ex nihilo...
(7) Then somehow the Retroboot came into existence, but its nature and history seemed to evolve with every issue, becoming less and less like the "original" Legion as time went on...
(8) And now... may I suggest "JBoot"? We learn the "truth" about the Legion's place in the (current) DC Universe.

I think not. I think it is a line to sell issues #23 and... whatever comes next. When we really ought to be around Adventure Comics #920...

See? Continuity is easy.

Batch SW6 is definitely in bucket #4, not #5.

I hope that you're right, Klar Ken. I really do.

But.... I still have this bad feeling that a "4-boot" is coming.

Further evidence... Johns went to a lot of trouble to sort out the three Legions as he realized that, with three of them, continuity was a mess.

Now, if the editorial/Management of DC does toss all of that in favor of a Fourboot then we'd be back at square one (or in this case, square-four)...

Now, I ask you, does that really sound like the kind of crazy decision that DC is currently famous for?

Me too...me toooooo...

Especially when Levitz is implying that the Retroboot isn't really the New 52 future Legion.

WTF, DC, WTF.

Why doesn't DC just go ahead and replace all this team stuff with a Batman-Brainiac 5 clone that has his own solo book?

C'mon, DC. You know you want to.

:rolleyes:

*puts hand over your mouth*

SHUSH. YOU NEVER KNOW WHO IS LISTENING.

Oh, relax. Since when did DC ever exhibit the slightest curiosity about anything we had say?

Besides, nobody who saw "Superman X" in the Legion cartoon can claim to be surprised by this "bold, new" development. "Superman X" was essentially the attempt to do yet another "Dark Knight of Teh Future" shtick without having to actually use the word "Bat."

(Have I mentioned lately that I'm far beyond not even remotely interested in anything to do with Dark Knight-mania? Well, tough toenails. This is where you all have to read about it again. )

Preach on. PREACH ON. I cannot even tell you how sick I am of all things Batman. It's like no one can write any comic character that isn't somewhat reminiscent of him. No characters are allowed their own personalities anymore because they all have to be Batman.

I was thinking the same thing when I saw how Timber Wolf was being written in Legion Lost. I was never thrilled with his clueless yahoo personality during Levitz' original run, but at least back then he had a distinct personality, not one that was like a 3rd-generation copy of somebody else.

Paul Levitz has dropped some hints about the ending of issue 23: http://www.newsarama.com/17943-levitz-hints-at-mystery-of-the-legion-s-place-in-the-dcu.html

My guess: This has all been a vision of Doiglas Nolan, from LSH 300.

Or the last panel will have Paul Levitz winking to the readers and saying, "Aren't you glad this all isn't real?"

... followed by, "Ain't I a stinker?"

If the retroboot Legion ends up being some kind of dream sequence, I'd actually be ok with that if it ended the series and completed my collection. That way I wouldn't have to buy any more new comic books. Yet, I can't imagine it will end that way with the Legion Lost team having teamed up with Superboy and the Teen Titans in the NuDCU.

To quote Daffy Duck, "au contraire mon frere". Or was it Bugs?

Anyway, we've already seen (in prior continuities) Superman meet and interact with the original/J-boot Legion, the prior incarnation of Conner/Superboy interact with the reboot Legion and (prior incarnation) Supergirl interact with the 3-boot Legion. Different Superfolk...different alternate futures.

Actually, this is not too far from certain modern cosmology theories that time travel would be possible but not within your own timeline/reality. You could leave your universe, travel to another and venture any direction in time, past or future, as much as you like but, within your own reality/timeline, you can only move in time as the minutes pass around you.

So, yes, I can easily see the j-boot Legion not being from the same timeline as the DCnU. Problem is, with that theory, no one from the DCnU would ever be able to interact with any future beings/Legions from the future of the DCnU.

I wonder if the writers are aware of this?

The one thing I won't do is follow the Legion again if it gets rebooted once more to not feature the characters of the original/retroboot era. I'm tired of reboots. Now if the DC editors chose to switch focus to one of the two other Legions from Lo3W, and made sure we all knew this was a legit thing, then maybe... The trouble is, as we learned with the retroboot Legion, with DC you can't seem to go home again without the magic being lost!

I'd lay odds that whatever DC plans next for the Legion, it'll probably ignore the last two volumes. Whether that's with another reboot or just pretending those recent volumes didn't happen, I don't know. History favors the former, unfortunately.

I wonder, though, if maybe DC will try to match the Legion as it appeared in Morrison's recently-concluded Action Comics run. I speak about that version much, as I dropped Action after 5 or 6 issues. But from what I've seen, that version didn't necessarily match up with what Levitz is/was doing. IIRC, it was kind of an adult Legion take that also featured the three main LSVers prominently. Maybe someone here can speak to it more knowledgeably? In any case, food for thought.

Also, apparently Giffen, DeMatteis and Maguire have something they're doing for DC that hasn't been announced, according to Bleeding Cool. (BC is incredibly reliable for insider scoops.) This could be a Legion relaunch or possibly a new Booster Gold series (or something else entirely). Again, food for thought.

But if this Legion wasn't in the New 52, why did it have to do the "relaunch" with the whole line just a few issue after its own reboot? (Stupidest most useless editorial decision of the project.)

I'd rather a fourboot than a continuing devastation of characters and continuity that I grew up with.

As far as I'm concerned the Legion I grew up stopped being published when Crisis On Infinite Earths came out. Everything since then has been about various alternate Legions. Some of them were actually pretty good reading, but they were not the same group that appeared from 1958-85. THAT group had a guy called Superboy as a defining member, with his cousin Supergirl (from his personal future) making an occasional appearance as well. Just look at virtually every cover from the early 60s through around 1980. See the guy in the blue suit with a big red "S"? (Hint: his name is on the cover). If whatever group you are reading about did not include him as a major member, it must be a different group. Simple as that.

I not really know what the executives of DC claim with all that. If with this of 52 it seems that all the groups of superheroes remained without ideas; they are a clone of Justice League or have a personage of Batman's family, when not two you sew simultaneously.
Or the readers only want to read again and again the same history....

Justice League (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Aquaman, Green Lantern, Cyborg..and now with Element Woman, Atom & Firestorm)

Justice League Of America (Martian Manhunter, Grenn Lantern (The new guy) Katana, Hawkman, Catwoman ?, Stargirl (What she does...a teenager with these so hard types?, it should be in the Teen Titans) Green Arrow.

Justice League Dark (Zatanna, Deadman, Constantine, Frankenstein?)

Justice League International (Batman (again like Wolverine of Marvel) Booster Gold, Fire, Ice, Green Lantern (Guy Gadner), Vixen. Rocket Red, August General in Iron (Horrible character!)Godiva (a clone of Spider-Girl).
They were a good group until the girls extracted, to add the losers : Batwing & Omac.

Earth 2....the same again Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman (Died this time in the first issue, but with a new Batman in the way)
Flash, Grenn Lantern (Alan Scott) Hawkgirl, Dr Fate.

Teen Titans.... Superboy, Red Robin, Wonder Girl And a few second class characters who do of this one the worst incarnation of the whole history of the Titans.

Red Hood And The Outlaws... Another Robin with Arsenal and Starfire (2 ex- Titans)

The Ravagers...A good idea that did not work.. With more ex Titans : Beast Boy and Terra, and Fairchild of Gen 13.

Then I do not know that they claim now, to eliminate to The Legion that was the only group with personality and originality ... to turn it into another future clone of Justice League with Batmans or Robins, and Wonder Women of the future?

The only hope is that everything is a bad rumor ... and begin of zero with the proposed in the miniseries Secrets of Legion.

For that if they destroy 50 years of history of The Legion. DC comics will be died for my and forever.

Levitz tried his best to bring back your beloved original with his retroboot Legion, picking up the pieces left him from Johns' Action and Lo3W retro booting, but it was a hard sell. With a 20 year writing gap and Johns' alterations, the Legion did not have the same feel that it once had. But you have to give Levitz credit that he did try to reconnect his current Legion with the original. As such, I look upon his two current runs of Legion, along with DeFalco's Legion Lost as being part of original continuity despite whatever major revelation has planned for his final issue.

It would have been interesting to see what Levitz would have done with the Legion if he would have stayed with the title 20 years ago (minus Giffen's hideous costume revamp that Geoff Johns thankfully corrected!). I think the Legion would have grown and changed much in the same way Levitz tried to do over the past couple of years. Change that occurs organically (even without Superboy or Supergirl) can still be considered part of the original Legion mythos.

from Masterworks:


Batty Bilson wrote:
"I actually like the stories in volume 9, prof--I thought it was a fitting way to finish off the Silver Age run, with more personal stories. Sort of like fading out with smaller stories as they had originally faded in."


Maybe, but I think that's being too kind. it was more like a slow death, precipitated, in my view by something I was unaware of at the time the ARCHIVES books were coming out. That being, Carmine Infantino FIRING George Klein, as part of a general program of "weeding out the old guys". What a stupid, and heartless thing to do. On top of that, while I LIKE Jack Abel's inking, Swan-Abel was a MAJOR step down from Swan-Klein. Not long after, Curt Swan got off the series. Not long after that, it was yanked out of the front of ADVENTURE and shoved into the back of ACTION, and before long, Jim Shooter "retired" (HAH). And then Mort Weisinger retired. Which was the END, until it came back 6 months later in SUPERBOY under new editor Murray Boltinoff, who never seemed to have a clue how to handle it right. His first 4 episodes had George Tuska on the art. If it wasn't for Dave Cockrum taking over on the 5th new episode, I wonder if the series would ever have survived. Cockrum's art, to me, is the ONLY thing that makes those episodes worth plowing through. It sure wasn't the writing...

So it looks like the Legion book is canceled. Wow, that's really a big dissapointment. Can somneone fill me in on what this Justice Legion is?

It's what is rampantly being rumored to replace LSH in its next incarnation. Scuttlebutt is that DC wants to try a trimmed-down LSH roster (presumably 7-10 members) that somewhat resembles the Justice League dynamic and powers to some degree and would also have some sort of direct JL ties. Kind of a "Justice League Future"?

No word on whether this would be a soft or hard reboot or even if there's any truth to the rumors. And if it's true, it's not a sure thing that "Justice Legion" would be the title. Seems a possibility, though, as DC would probably want to capitalize on JL as much as possible as Marvel has with their X-Men and Avengers lines.

The website Bleeding Cool is the primary source of the rumor, and their batting average on rumors equalling truth is very solid.

I got it.

In this new Legion, Wally West finally returns!

As XS!


YES!


............Ok, I'm trying hard to find a bright spot here.

I'd be sorely tempted if Laurel Kent was brought back to be the 'Superman analogue' of the Justice Legion.

But, really, DC allowing a 'Justice League spin-off' to be headlined by a girl, when it causes them pain to have to include more than one out of *seven* in the core League? Hell would literally freeze over, and the sky would be darkened by all the flying pigs.

It's a bit ironic that DC has worked so hard to bump off or sideline any Legionverse character that already has ties to the Justice League, such as the descendants of Bruce Wayne and Oliver Queen, Laurel Kent, XS, Rond Vidar, etc. They are either going to have to and out some resurrections, or even brand new characters with ties to the Justice League (or, shudder, artificially invent ties to the Justice League for pre-existing characters, like retconning Dawnstar to be Thanagarian or Lamprey to being Atlantean).

The Superman analogue may be neither the leader nor the book's headliner, so it might be a little easier, if for some reason they actually disfavor leading women (is it a sales thing?).

Who were the descendants of Bruce Wayne and Oliver Queen?

The Oliver Queen descendent was named 'Oli-3 Queen,' IIRC, and the Legion may have rescued him from an attempt to kill various descendents of the Justice League. (Of which there should be, literally, *thousands,* 1000 years in the future...)

I don't recall if the Bruce Wayne descendent was named, but he was a detective who was in fact murdered. I think this all happened around the time Laurel Kent was shot by a kryptonite bullet, as part of the same plot.

You may have a point about DC trying to kill off JL descendants and connections, but so far 3 or your 5 examples were characters who were created specifically to be killed off in one story, therefore they can't really count toward an actual trend of getting rid of the JL connections that already exist(ed), so I'd tend to give DC the benefit of the doubt. (Not that it's a crime either for them to do it or for you to suspect it. )

Were there others besides XS and Rond Vidar? Because this would be interesting even if it were an unconscious coincidence on DC's part.

Oh, it's not like a conspiracy theory or anything, I just think it's funny that DC seemed to actively disentangle the Legion from the Justice League at times (such as the limbo the Tornado Twins have occupied and the whole 'no Superboy as inspiration' thing), and now is trying to reforge connections between these properties.

And the Wayne / Queen legacies definitely seem to have been created for that storyline, but I'm almost positive that Laurel Kent was a pre-existing character...

Ah, three out of five FOR the theory now.

Five out of seven if you count the Tornado Twins being in limbo. I'm not sure why Superboy's disconnection would have put them there though.

I can see why Mon-El's situation had to be rewritten, but don't remember what Dawn and Don had to do with him.

Yep, Laurel was definitely pre-existing...the Ivo story where JLA descendants were being murdered was after Laurel had joined the Academy.

Well, consider how many current DC titles have leading women. World's Finest, Batwoman, Batgirl, Birds of Prey, Supergirl.

So I don't see why DC would object to a Superman analogue being a leader of the team (especially when you factor in the 75th anniversary of Superman and the upcoming film)

But what would she be called? Supergirl is obviously out. Time to bring back Superwoman?

My first question with any JL analogues in the future is, where or who is Green Lantern?

Since this is all conjecture, I'd love to see XTC in it.
I've been a big fan(i refuse to say shipper! ) of the Supergirl/Brainiac 5 relationship since Superboy #204, and I really like the idea of the character.

Hence my strategic "if" in the sentence. It's Set's theory that DC might be reticent to headline a woman, we're only exploring the idea.

I only said the Superwhoever may not be the headliner to bring up that possibility also. It would be interesting to see a Supersomething in a support position.

I suppose that happens to Kara and Kon-El often enough but I really don't read much since they've been around.

On a tangential note, I wonder if there's a decent name for Laurel Kent out there somewhere. It's the 31st century, so she doesn't really need a code-name to conceal her famous ancestors secret identity, but still, 'Superwoman' could be fine. (Avoiding Supergirl, since the real Supergirl could always show up from time to time.) I'd have considered something like Adamant (associated with an indestructible metal), but she's got that big red and yellow 'S' on her poncho, and 'adamant' sounds too much like someone is going to break into 'Goody Two Shoes' to my ear...

Wouldn't it SUCK if DC used this supposed Justice Legion to completely repurpose the concept as a vehicle for "missing" prior DCU characters like Donna Troy, Wally West, Aqualad, etc.? I'm talking without even a HINT of Brainy, Imra and anything even resembling the Legion we all love?

I know it's all just conjecture, but I seriously wouldn't put this past Didiot and his funky bunch.

"Superlass" would be one obvious choice, plus there's precedence for its use for descendants of Superman and Lois Lane...

This just made me wonder something. If there's a Laurel Kent why not have stories with any of the other descendants over the course of that millennium? Either the Legion could go visit or save them in their time, or pull them into the future for a mission that requires someone with a kryptonian, or specifically Clark's, bloodline.

How about "Manhunter"?

The first thing that came into my head?

Ohhhhh here she comes
Watch out boy she'll chew you up
Ohhhhhh here she comes
She's a maneater
Ohhhhh here she comes
Watch out boy she'll chew you up
Ohhhhh here she comes
She's a maneater

For me, "Manhunter" is so overused by such disparate characters that it's no way to go if you're trying to make a memorable character.

Unless the character seriously has something to do with Manhunting. But a Kal-descendent in a Legion? Not particularly instinctive use of the name to me, and a waste of both the lineage and the name.

Barring a talented writer of course.

She's Kryptonian...



...how about "KRYPTO" ?? : )

Given her outfits, "Streaky" might be more appropriate!

I remember that... Shoes, panties and a poncho. I've met strippers who wear more than she did. Initially so, at least.

Of the two Laurels, this one was not my favorite.