Can it be that no one's started a thread about this title?

I guess it was over on the LSH board since the Legion was involved in the first storyline.

They're not scheduled to be in upcoing issues, I don't believe. So it's time to discuss B&B here, if there's going to be any discussion.

This month's issue featured the FLASH and the DOOM PATROL, minus its 'new' members, Vox and Bumblebee.

Wally West and his wife, Linda, take their children to Dr. Niles Caulder at the DP HQ to see if the mad scientist can help them with their children's unstable speed-related powers.

I enjoyed reading this issue, but there was one 'revelation' that makes me nonplussed. Rita Farr, we're told' constantly wears an artifical rictus grin now because she fears being seen as a freak.

What?

On one hand, that would give a touch of freakiness to the most visually normal Patroller. On the other hand, it was her inward freakiness that made Rita fit in with her fellow Doom Patrol members.

It was a weird little scene.

I was disappointed at Karen and Mal's exclusion, too. Either they are Doom Patrollers or they aren't. Maybe the story was written and worked upon before they joined?

It wasn't ML.

Remember - we got that little panel toward the start telling us that Mal, Karen, Gar and Steve Dayton were all away on some mission or something.

Wally even makes a comment like "At least I liked those guys" or something. Which was a fact I'd totally forgotten. With having three former teammates/friends in the DP and someone he's gotten to know quite well over the years in Steve, there really wasn't that much reason for him to be as apprehensive about visiting the team as he was.

Still, I was sad to those four characters all omitted from the story but I was at least thankful that we got an explanation for it, rather than just some unknown absence.

I'm still longing to see someone do something with Mal and Karen (two characters with enormous storyline potential and hugely underestimated powers) but I'm not holdibg my breath. The fact that they are the most cannon-foddery members on a team with a loooonnngg history of losing members worries me greatly too.

As for the B&B - Loving it! One of my fave books week in, week out. There's nothing I can say about George Perez's art that hasn't already been said so I'll just say that with his health deterioration and everything I take everything I get from him as a blessing.

Mark Waid's telling some really good stories too. I know it received some criticism but I thoroughly enjoyed the Wonder Woman/Power Girl pairing last issue as well as all the others too.

I'm not too sure how splitting the book up into lots of smaller team-up adventures (as is what appears to be happening from next issue on) will work as I'd like to see these characters get fleshed out and really spot-lighted a bit more, but I'll keep an open mind and will likely enjoy that approach too.

I do find the surprisingly disappointing sales of this book to be a worry though. It's not that this book is doing bad, just that 'average' doesn't seem to me what DC were probably wanting from it. I don't think it's in any danger of cancellation (God, I hope it isn't) but I'm a bit concerned that DC might start messing with the formula of it, and I'm perfectly happy with how things are going right now.

Can anyone post some B&B sales figures? Last time I checked it was a big seller (of course this would have been about 6 months ago)

I read # 8 and really enjoyed it.

When THE FLASH relaunched after Wally's run ended I used it as a breaking point and dropped the book, and haven't picked it up since Wally's launch started back up again, so it was nice to catch up with he and Linda here.

And it's always nice to see the Doom Patrol since their excellent return back in the faboo Johns/Daniel era of Teen Titans.

A shame Gar, Mal and Karen couldn't be around but that would have eased Wally a bit and Waid wanted him on edge.

I thought the Flash/DP issue was the best one yet story-wise.

The art is what's making this series for me.

I really enjoyed the latest issue, with all the old-school (and new-school too) DC characters! Waid's heart clearly is in this title, unlike his LSH 3boot relaunch.

I also checked sales figures, and was saddened to see this (and Booster Gold) so far down on the top 100.

Wow, B&B veered off into even odder directions than the Doom Patrol in #9. Pages from the Book of Destiny coming unbound all by themselves, then coalescing (?) into a human-shaped figure which threatens, or at least looms over, June?

She then sees panels that appear to be the three stories with which we're presented.

Weirdsville.

I would gladly have paid to see each of the three vignettes in this issue as full size installments. New Atom and Hawkman... Metal Men and Robby Reed... Blackwhawks and Boy Commandos... I wonder why they were all crammed together?

The Metal Men and Dial H for Hero was my favorite of the three sections. Go, Man-bot! Yea, Tin!

I unexpectedly enjoyed the Blackhawk/Boy Commandos team-up. I was left wanting more, which is a good thing, I guess.

Yeah, Zinda in BoP totally has me into the Blackhawks, lately, and that was a DC property I never cared for before.

Another great issue!

I also would've loved to see any one of those 3 team-ups expanded to fill the whole issue but I guess if even a Wonder Woman/Power Girl pairing got sales dropping then a Blackhawk/Boy Commandoes team-up would've put them in the toilet. So sad!

I'm loving Waid's use of obscure old villains in this book too! Dr Alchemy and the Warlock of Ys are two old faves of mine so it's great seeing them again here!

And am I right in thinking that the "Page Monster" was actually the Warlock trying to escape from the book? I didn't quite get that bit.

Is Perez still on this book? If so, have there been delays and/or fill-ins?

Yes he's still on the book and No fill ins or delays yet LL, i good to see Waid writing Wally again, BB is the only bright spot in the current roster of DC books i look forward to

Perez is leaving after # 10, but don\'t despair -- look who\'s drawing # 11-13!!

Hm, Perez leaving now could well mean that he would be free to do some Legion title in our anniversary year... hmmmmm, there'es hoping...

As for Ordway, he's okay but I don't think i will be staying on this title. The first storyline was good, but the inclusion of more and more obscure DC characters lately may be a reason to celebrate for some diehard DC "dictionary" fans, but I can get no fun out of Blackhawks and whatever the names are.

So, if Perez should be really drawing his own childhood heroes, the only thing we need to do is getting this Al Vey guy to ink it. That would be... simply... perfect!

I'll say the same thing about #10 as I did about the Metal Men, Dial H for Hero, Boy Commandos, etc. issue.

I would *gladly* have paid for whole issues for each of the halves of this one.

Silent Knight? Cool character that hasn't been seen since... well, I can't remember since when. And the revelation about who his descedants are? News to me-- is that new to DCU continuity?

Perez' art is a knockout-- especially the page tinted all in red. Reminescent of a medieval woodcut. Beautiful stuff.

Now, the Teen Titans in Atlantis stuff-- heck, I'd happily buy an ongoing featuring this team for the next 10 years.

Not sure if it dovetails with the YEAR ONE storyline that's also excellent. No *huge* discrepancies stuck out for me-- though the attitudes of Wally and Dick towards Garth don't exactly jibe with the mini.

Earrings that enable the wearer to breathe underwater... Aquaman and Mera (I've forgotten what a nice couple they made)... Wonder Chick... Garth's social issues... heroes and sidekicks...

Yes, both stories were well done. Although I also thought Wally & Dick's initial attitude towards Garth wasn't right.

I don't get this anymore, not after the first arc. I'm just kind of flipping through it now, seeing if anyone I like is in it.

They've announced that #16 is Mark Waid's last issue.

Wonder if the book will continue?

All it needs is the right writer or artist or (wishfully thinking) both. They should put one of those Kubert brothers on this.

There was big news about B&B at the Comic-con this past weekend. The new writer is going to be introducing the former ARCHIE COMICS superheroes into the DCU via this comic. I think there'll still be at least two DC characters teamed up as well.

#15-- billed as a NIGHTWING/HAWKMAN team-up, it's actually a NW/HM/GREEN ARROW/DEADMAN grouping, as they fight a mythological figure in Nanda Parbat.

I enjoyed it- and I usually like Collins' art. I liked the opening scene and Hawkman's recognition of Nightwing's unique status in the DCU. The combination of artifacts and personalities used to win the day was fun.

Nothing earthshaking here, but good, solid, enjoyable, somewhat old-fashioned comic book storytelling is on view.

Darn! I forgot to mention this. Re: Archie Comics Heroes are now apart of the DC Universe!

Kabir told me this after he went to the Archie panel on Sunday. Archie being one of the few comics he likes.

I can't wait to see it! I love the characters and have a complete set of the Mighty Crusaders both the 60's and 80's versions.

*loves the reluctance to say "JMS"*

Actually, it's a reluctance to spell out the S of JMS, accompanied by a lazy spell that made me not want to look up the correct spelling.

Me to Gary, I also have a complete set of the T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents and from the 60's and 80's and I love those characters as well.

The Superman/Catwoman issue was a fun bit of fluff-- showing sides of each of the characters in slightly new and different ways. I liked the dynamic between them.

I can echo your review word for word.

I'm also interested in the upcoming Supergirl/Raven issue.

I have never been exposed to the Archie hero characters. This could either be something new and fun or a good jumping-off point for me. I will give it a couple of issues for sure.

I think the Catwoman/Superman issue was the best of the series thus far. Too many of the issues have been 'pretty good', but this one was fantastic.

I wonder how many people are still buying this post Mark Waid? Well, I am, and after an incredibly tedious Green Lantern/Phantom Stranger story, things seem to be back on track.

The latest was a Booster Gold / Magog issue, which was actually very good! It would seem to be the perfect intro issue to Magog's future series and for people who want to familiarize themselves with Booster. In fact, if more of the series was like this, then perhaps more people would be talking about B&B again.

Due to budget constraints I haven't been able to buy this book in a while unfortunately (other than lucking into the odd issue in a cheap back-issue bin) but I am very excited about the upcoming JMS run.

I *LOVE* the fact that he will be spot-lighting the obscure, forgotten parts of the DCU more and just hope that the sales are sufficient to give him a good, long run on this title.

Some of his rumoured upcoming guest stars are inspired though. I mean - Brother Power the Geek! Who ever thought they'd see that character again!?! I can't wait.

Catching up:

First - also looking forward to JMS's run and his odd pairings. I've almost done a complete flip-flop from bashing him to following him to different titles (though that won't get me to pick up the Red Circle stuff ).

I recently read the two lastest: (A) Static & Black Lightning and (B) Blue Beetle and Hardware. Whereas I thought I'd like the latter more, it was actually the former that was the one I enjoyed.

Static is a character I like and am glad to see in the DCU and Black Lightning is another character I like, but the story felt very flat to me. Black Lightning is one of those characters who is woefully written the wrong way. Whatever it is writers try to do, they make him much more bland than he should be. By trying to go against the 70's "angry black man" stereotype, they go too far in the other direction. I blame Winnick.

The Hardware / Blue Beetle story, however, was actually quite good! I don't know much about Hardware but I think I'm starting to like him after this. The dynamic was there between Beetle and Hardware to the point where I actually would like to see the two team-up again. The new Beetle is the type of character who should have legions of fans but yet only has the half of Ted Kord's fans willing to give him a chance. DC really should have marketed that better as LW poster veryvery once pointed out.

I get the feeling not many people read B&B, which is too bad. The Hardware/Beetle issue was the perfect launching point for a series of either one, just as the Booster/Magog one was a few months ago. Unfortunately for every good one there is a blander one like the Static / Black Lightning, or even a super-boring one like that big Phantom Stranger/Green Lantern story that killed the momentum of the entire comic.

Brother Power the Geek is coming.

Like OMG.

So I haven't read an issue of this title since the first part of that Green Lantern/Green Arrow/Phantom Stranger story, but wanting to support JMS and his 'obscure hero' approach (and also because I had a little extra pocket money thanks to a $66 lottery win! my biggest ever win! I'm stoked!) I picked up #27.

I really liked it. This was my first exposure to JMS's writing (I think - has he written any DC before?) and while it didn't reinvent the wheel and was perhaps a tad 'talky' at points, it certainly drew me into the story and even left me feeling kinda choked up for poor Robby and his guilt at the end there. Good for Batman for being a noble hero rather than a dick for a change.

I was initially surprised (and maybe a tad disappointed) when it became obvious that Robby wouldn't be the actual 'co-star' of this issue but the fantastic page where he...

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">saw the future and then climbed straight back into bed terrified</span></span>

... made it well worth it. Kudos to Jesus Saiz there.

Saiz did a great job throught the whole book actually. I've been a fan since I saw him on that Suicide Squad mini a couple of years back so I'm glad that he's found a home at DC and on a title I like too.

My only problem with the book was in an area that I sometimes think only I notice (or at least take issue with) - the colouring! It was so flat and drab and miserable throughout. Like we were all looking at it through a filter set to "dull". Seriously - look at the sky, the buildings, the backgrounds... everything's an orangey-browny-grey colour.

Why do colourists make these choices? Surely a POP!ART! book like The Brave and the Bold would more greatly benefit from bright, dynamic, bold colours to more accurately reflect the colourful, larger-than-life characters that appear in it? Readers unfamiliar with Dial-H-For-Hero should come away with from this book thinking "Wow! What a cool, vibrant concept. I'd love to read more about it!" rather than "That was a good story... now where is my razor blade?"

Rhonda (mechana) did such a great job with the colours back on The Legion. I can't believe she had/has(?) trouble getting work at DC again while this Trish Mulvihill seems to get so much (no offence to her).

Anyway, rant over. The isse was still good. Go buy it.

OK Kayne


I also liked the story. It wasn't a "blow your socks off" story, but a good solid one issue story.

One gripe: <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">on page 16, we see the Star unharmed by bullets fired at point blank range and yet at the end the bomb kills him??? I consider that an editor's fault</span></span>

LOL! I deserved that.

Going back in time for a moment, with that extra pocket money I won I also bought the previous three issues of B&B too - the Milestone character ones. Just read them...

Static & Black Lightning - This issue didn't really do it for me I'm afraid. About halfway through it I thought "Please tell me something is going to happen other than this not very interesting fight" but nothing ever did. And it kinda annoyed me that Black Lightning got punked the whole time too - I don't think he got one lick in. It was nice to see a fairly formidable new villain in the DCU though - just a shame he's so generic.

Blue Beetle & Hardware - This one was better, but still not great. The dialogue and writing were a big step-up from the previous ish but where it fell down was in the overly simple plot and the rather boring nature of one of the headliners - Hardware. Sorry to his fans, but he was a kinda boring character to me, visually and power-wise. That said, I liked his interaction with Jaime and wouldn't mind reading another meeting between them. The surprise villain at the end was fun too.

Xombi & the Spectre - This one was the best of the bunch! Very atmospheric and moody piece. I'm not the biggest Spectre fan and I've never read anything with Xombi in it before but I was fully engaged with this tale. The fantastic art was a big plus. Normally this type of art would not be my cup of tea but it fit this story perfectly - and he drew a superb Spectre. The nature of the crime was a fun, new (to me anyway) one too - a ghost killing ghosts - and I give extra points to anything that seems original in comics in this day and age. Good issue.

Blacula, glad you liked the Xombi/Spectre issue, which I also thought was superb and way below anyone's radar.

I read JMS's first issue last night with Batman and Dail H for Hero, and I think it says a lot that I read about 20 comics in the last two days, including Blackest Night and several other high profiles ones, and the one issue that made me want to come to LW before I got started at work and talk about was B&B. Why? Well, not because it was the most ground-breaking issue of all time, but because it was a good, solid story, the likes of which remind me why I try to collect so many different titles.

I think JMS did a great job in his first story, and I hope all his future issues contain several of the key elements of why I enjoyed it:

- done in one plot with a full story

- a story with a lot of heart and a real actually shift / journey for a character to undergo.

- heroes interacting with one another that you wouldn't ordinarily expect and therefore showing sides to them because of it, a la Batman here. I thought his speech to Robbie Reed was pretty well done, and even though it was another side to him, it was completely in character.

For the longest time I was anti-JMS because of some specific Spider-Man stories; only later did I learn of how much editorial was involved in giving edicts to him on those stories. His run on Thor really impressed me and made me turn the corner in my view of him. Now I'm looking forward to B&B and I eagerly await what he's got planned next.

Just finished Brave & Bold, Blackhawk & the Flash. Another good strong one issue story by J. Michael Straczynski. Again the story was more about the inner struggle of one of the heroes.

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text"> Here it was Barry Allen struggling with the no killing code of superheroes with the realities of war. </span></span>

Jesus Saiz' artwork was just beautiful. Crisp and clean. And Trish Mulvihill's coloring was spot on. (not that mechana couldn't have done better)

Just read the Flash / Blackhawk team-up and I agree with Quis. Another top quality story by JMS! Really good stuff, with great interaction between Flash and Blackhawk, with some great conflict for Barry. One of the best stories of the year for any genre or company.

JMS on B&B: So far, pretty damn excellent.

I agree. The Flash and Blackhawk issue was excellent both in terms of story and art. We need more comics like this.

This was the first B&B issue I picked up. Since no Flash this month I had an extra couple of bucks. Glad I did. Great story and art. Nice to see a hero go to WWII and not meet Rock. Great to see the Blackhawks again.

The Brave and the Bold #29. Batman and Brother Power the Geek.

Best. Issue. Yet.

I'll be back to write more another time but JMS is writing his little socks off on this title.

If you are not reading this book then you are missing out on one of the most quirky and interesting and moving and emotional superhero books out there.

Why couldn't JMS have come to DC 10 years ago? Unlike some of their writers (*cough* Judd Winick *cough*) he actually seems to respect their characters.

Batman and Brother Power the Geek was amazing. I admit to getting a little choked up. JMS is showing us that "done in one" comics are not only still possible, but that they can be done with more heart, drama, and substance than the majority of comics being published today. Excellent work.

I'm glad the writer didn't elaborate on what actually happened to Cindy, I remember her from the Vertigo one-shot Rachel Pollack wrote. I'm also glad that the Geek was actually speaking coherently.

The story had a very true moral to it. It really is sad as to what our culture has become. The truth is, I only speak to people on the internet here, ff.net, and Deviantart. I don't use facebook, livejournal, myspace, or twitter. I don't even like cellphones, but my parents insist I have one for emergency reasons. I'm 18, and I detest all these things yet I use the internet too much.

Well, thank you to everyone...

I got the Batman/Brother Power issue and LOVED IT!!!!!

But I don't think today's technology is isolating us as much as portrayed here. On the subway I see people in their own little Ipod world, but have also seen two people sharing an Ipod. People will still seek out other people. Some will isolate using computers etc., but those people would have isolated in the past with solitary hobbies like stamp collecting.

Quite the opposite, IMO. I think that the average person today spends too *much* time interacting with other people through their devices. Conversations become trivial, and yet every text has to be answered immediately, despite no actual *communication* taking place.

I've got friends and family who've gotten pretty annoyed with me for not having a cellphone, because they can't just call me whenever they have a wild hair to do so. I'd rather have a substantial conversation with my mom once a month than exchange meaningless emails every day telling her that 'not much has happened.'

I've got friends who play EQ / WoW / etc. and they sit on Ventrilo (voicechat) even then they aren't playing. A group of them are football fans, and they'll provide running commentary to each other (and the rest of us) during the game. It's like they can't unplug from each other, and have forgotten how to enjoy things *by themselves.* We can always talk about them later, but no, they have to share everything in real-time (including thoughts that, in a less *immediate* world, would have gone unsaid, as they would have had time to think about it).

Everything is immediate. Nobody seems to think before speaking. The 'internal censor' that exists between our brain and our mouth doesn't have time to say, 'maybe nobody wants to hear about your last bowel movement...' before you've blurted it out.

And, IMO, we're getting too dependent on other people's feedback on *everything.* There are times when I don't need someone's opinion or feedback on what I'm gonna do, or what I thought of this movie, or where I'm gonna go, or who I'm gonna date, or what I'm gonna have for lunch, or what I'm gonna wear today, and yet I hear people asking these very questions ('Should I nuke up some of last night's pizza for lunch?' 'Eat a kitchen sponge for all I care! Make your own darned decisions!').

And now I'm turning into one of those old fuddy-duddies who complains about how things are today (despite hanging out on the phone as a teenager for hours, talking about nothing to people I saw all day at school!).

Get off my lawn, you darn kids! [waves cane around threateningly]

Double post. I suck at editing. Always hit the wrong button and make another post!

Very glad to hear you liked the issue Lash! I recommend tracking down the Batman & Dial-H-for-Hero issue if you can - it wasn't as groovy as this issue but was still an excellent and emotional read.

And spread the word around. This book deserves much higher sales than it's getting!

Read the Bats/BP issue and it was excellent, as I suspected it would be. I actually thought the Batman/Dial H for Hero and the Flash/Blackhawk stories were better--but honestly, all were so good that its hard to compare. But trust me faithful LWers, if you liked this issue, you'll love the other two as well.

Everything about the issue was groovy. JMS continues to remind creators & readers how a done in one issue can be exciting and poignant at the same time without having to tout itself as a done in one issue.

JMS's use of Batman is also extraordinary. He doesn't take anything away from "the dark knight" aspect of the character, yet he makes Batman likeable and relatable, and in fact, gives Batman the role of someone the audience can relate to in the larger story. That's twice he's done this--something that hasn't really been done since...the Golden Age?

Brother Power is interesting and his usage has an innate coolness factor. I like JMS's message, which I didn't read so much as "it changed for the worse" but rather "it never lived up to the promise that the ideals of the 60's held". People I know who lived during that time will tell you it shouldn't be viewed with rose-colored glasses; but there was definitely the sense of an ideal world that could be achieved that fell by the wayside somewhere along the way and has only grown farther apart. I won't argue on the technology-related debate several fellow posters spoke about, but I do think the sequence that compared students drinking beer and talking about poetry and engaging in intellectual conversations to students get shit-faced for the sake of getting shit-faced was a pretty powerful one. It definitely made me sigh since it seems pretty accurate.

Anyone not reading is really missing out. The coolest part is that each story so far is completely different than the one prior to it. You can't get much farther from this issue than the previous one with Flash and the Blackhawks and that was incredible as well. At this point I think I might not even check ahead of time to see who he is using since its almost a guaranteed great story and I like the surprise.

I'm really looking forward to the Green Lantern / Dr Fate issue!

The GL/Dr Fate issue was also a great one issue story. Not a lot of action, but a great discussion.

I bought the first three issues last month (on LW recommendations and positive online reviws at CBR) and just recently read them. You know what? They're purty damn good, alright!

My favorites are the two Batman issues. I love the sympathetic stories of the guy who stole the "H" Dial and of the strange creature that is Brother Power. That I cared about either character, one new and a one-off obviously and the other so obscure I knew nothing about) is a testament to JMS's writing ability. I also love that JMS doesn't write Bruce as an emotionless bastard. His Batman cares and is great consoling Robbie Reed and taking an interest in and relating to the Geek. I especially loved the Frankenstein allusions a lot. In both stories JMS had a lot to say about what's wrong with modern society that was worth listening to.

I liked the Flash story, but not as much. Mainly, I think JMS left too much out of the story. For one thing, the role the Blackhawks played was pretty minimal. It could've been played by any group of generic war characters. Little that make the Blackhawks unique was really a part of the story. You could've put Easy Company or Marvel's Howling Commandos in there with very little adjustment. They're multi-national makeup was emphasized at one point, but I don't think we got much flavor for them in the process.

I guess the story was all about Barry's decision to take part in this war while he was trapped in the moment while appreciating better the sacrifices of those who came before. But I would've liked to have seen a lot more of what actually happened. I'm sure many would argue that the ambiguity of what actually happened enhances the story, but I personally would like to have seen more. I like the one-off nature of this series, but this would've made a brilliant 2- or 3-parter.

What is not to be denied in all three issues, however, was the breathtaking beauty of Jesus Saiz's art! Wow, what a find! I may have seen his art before, I don't know, but I'll be giving him a close look from now on, for sure! Beatiful, gorgeous art that while simple and understated in some ways is utterly breathtaking in the execution. Saiz obviously gets JMS's scripts and maximizes everything within them to full effect. I look forward to seeing what this guy's future holds.

Seems the GL/Fate issue's getting good reviews already from Quis and CBR. Looking forward to it!

Picked up the Batman/BP and GL/Dr Fate issues today. Both great reads. Nothing dramatic really happens in these issues, or the Flash/Blackhawks, but you get a great read on who these characters are in a very short time.

I'll be looking for the Batman/Dial H issue as well.

was surprised to see Hawk and Dove (the original ones) in the Brave and the Bold.....and GPA too. GPA made the first appearance in "Escape" the mini-series spotlighting Nemesis. Golly!

OMAC aka Buddy Blank. heh.

and I wonder why the advertisting is misleading...since there is no Libra in the episode, only Equinox.

the Origin of Shrapnel, hmmm interesting.

I would give this episode "When OMAC attacks!" a grade of B-.

Um, not to be rude, but there's separate thread for the cartoon.

http://www.legionworld.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=002511

oh yeah I got PMed from Quislet informing me that there is another thread which I completely lost track of it. It's harder to keep track of where and which to find the topics. heh. so my apology to you all.

thanks, SK and Quis.

Got the Dial H issue and loved that one as well. JMS has really got a good thing going. I don't need another title to add to the list, but will have to make room when I can to pick these up. The art is great.Jesus is a truly talented artist.

I found a list of some of Straczynski's ideas.

Batman and Spectre, Lex Luthor and Swamp Thing, Deadman and Wonder Woman, Flash (Barry Allen) and the Blackhawks, Constantine and Eclipso, Doom Patrol and the Legion of Super-Heroes, Two-Face and Hawk and Dove, Challengers of the Unknown and the Metal Men and, the audience's favorite, the Legion of Substitute Heroes and the Inferior Five

Some interesting concepts.

I like the idea of the higher rung with the out of left field characters.

Lex Luthor and Swamp Thing, Constantine and Eclipso, Two-Face and Hawk and Dove would be some that fall into that category for me. Not that some of these characters are not higher rung, just that the teaming is just out of left field.

I'd love to see the Legion stuff of course.

I'm just glad for variety. I've noticed, nearly all the team-ups in the old series were just Batman and someone else. Batman's great, but you know what they say about too much of a good thing...

Some that I think would be interesting.

Blue Devil and Mr. Terrific
Vril Dox and Kid Flash
Green Arrow and Capt. Cold

I actually made a list of team-up ideas, and I am dying for opinions and criticism.

http://www.legionworld.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=002168

I'd kind of like to see a classic team-up.

Green Arrow & Hawkman

Here's one for Lash to write...

Ambush Bug, Matter Eater Lad and Quislet.

The Heroes of Tartarus and the original Seven Soldiers of Victory!

Mind if I add that to the list?

Beast Boy and the Creeper!

Gotcha. Tell me if you like any of the other team-up ideas.

Read the latest with Dr. Fate and Green Lantern. Another fantastic issue. Not as much action or plot going on but an excellent conversation on predestination versus free will, complete with a fantastic ending. Yet again, just a damn solid issue

I'm starting to think that when the first TPB of JMS's B&B is released its going to be the perfect gift for someone who is on the verge of getting into comics.

This was also the first time I noticed the gorgeous art by Jesus Saiz. The color contrast between GL and Fate really made it pop.

B&B 30 featuring GL and Doc Fate, I agree, was another winning issue for Straczynski and Saiz. I miss the former version of Fate, having enjoyed the series written by DeMatteis and later Messner-Loebs. It was an enjoyable series with several people taking up Fate's mantle including Eric and Linda Strauss, and later Inza and Kent Nelson.

The death of Inza and Kent was something I'd been fuzzy on for a while memory-wise. I'm not sure if it was depicted in that ongoing Dr. Fate series or somehwere else. Anyone remember what series and issues that occurred in and what made them age out of control? Apparently Extant aged them into retirement, but I'm not sure why they later died.

In any case it was good, heroic tale for Fate. Even though he seemed resigned to his destiny, I suspect he just couldn't have left Hal in that kind of peril.

The weakness to yellow makes me scratch my head a bit as it hasn't been prominent in GL mythos since Johns took over. Yet it seems apparent that this story almost has to take place sometime after GL: Rebirth with Hal's knowledge of Inza and Kent's fates and how he was probably out of the picture during and afer all that happened.

Still an awesome, humanizing story that continues JMS and Saiz's great win streak to open up their run here.

Issue # 31, The Atom and the Joker.

Joker-Boogers.

Interesting issue. Not sure how much I would trust of the flashbacks though. Although I think the goal that Joker stated during the "teeter-totter" scene is the best explanation I have ever heard from the Joker (or anyone else for that matter) about his goals.

The Atom plays his role in the story well, but really is nothing more than someone who is called because he can shrink to the needed size to do the deed.

Probably the weakest of the MJS issues for me, but still a good comic overall. If that makes sense.

There's a thread about this in the main Legion forum but it deserves a mention here too -

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=24580

The Legion of Super-Heroes and the Doom Patrol!
The Legion of Substitute-Heroes and the Inferior Five!

JMS continues to create magic on this title!

Whoops. Double Post.

OK, now THIS is a big deal... The Subs haven't 'carried' a title since their special back in the 80s. The I5 2 decades further back! I hope these issues kick BOATLOADS of ass.

I will be honest... I forgot to pick up the GL/Fate issue before it sold out and I *detest* the Joker so I passed on that one. I will add this to my pull so this doesn't happen again.

Lash, check out your local Borders...mine had a bunch of GL/Fate issues.

MLLASH -

The GL/Dr Fate issue is indeed worth checking out. Top-notch story.

The Atom/Joker issue... not so much. Especially since you (like me) detest the Joker. If I read one more comic where the hero has the opportunity to put the Joker down for good but then doesn't because it would mean being dragged down to his level or blah-blah-blah whatever... I will scream. JUST. KILL. THAT. FUKCER. OFF. ALREADY!

All that said, JMS's skill with the pen still makes the story *somewhat* worthwhile - and I'm happy to say that the Atom comes out of it quite favourably (I especially liked that he seems to want the Joker dead as much as I do) - but yeah, like Dev-Em said, definitely the weakest of the JMS B&B issues so far.

Bring on the Legion(s)!

P.S. My ranking of the JMS B&Bs so far -

1. Batman & Brother Power the Geek
2. Batman & Dial H for Hero
3. Green Lantern & Dr Fate
4. Flash & the Blackhawks
5. Atom & the Joker

This title is FABOO!!!
(and I thought so even before I learned about the upcoming LSH & SUBS appearances).

the Brave and the Bold #32

Aquaman and the Demon

Another solid comic book by JMS. Not as good as some of the issues of his run so far, but still better than most standard super hero fare these days. Never been a huge fan of the Demon...or Aquaman really, but JMS used both very well here.

Congrats to JMS and The Brave and the Bold for their recent Eisner nomination!

http://robot6.comicbookresources.co...written-top-the-2010-eisner-nominations/

Rather inexplicably, it is for the Flash/Blackhawks issue (definitely not the best of his run so far IMO) but I'll take whatever brings attention to this great book.

I forgot to comment on the Demon/Aquaman issue which I thought was another solid story. I think perhaps we've all been so impressed that we're setting the bar higher and higher each month, because a few weeks later when I think about it, that was a really damn good story.

Great, ominous tone to it all that really played up both Etrigan and Aquaman as larger than life characters. Both kingly, with Arthur being noble yet potentially scary and on the other hand, Etrigan being demonic and scary but potentially noble.

A great idea to team these two up. I actually would love if he did a sequal.

And, as I said before, I think the Flash/Blackhawks story might have been the actual best of the run so far! It's definitely a contender.

^^^ I agree with you re: setting the bar so high with this book CK.

I came away from the Aquaman/Demon story thinking it was good but not great but that's probably only because I LOVED some of the previous JMS issues so completely, and when I compare it to pretty much everything else I've read by DC lately, it really was one of the best comics of the past month!

It's funny we both have different opinions on the Flash/Blackhawks issue though. It was still a very good comic (I'd put it on a par with the Aquaman/Demon one on my personal scale) but I thought the Batman/Dial-H-For-Hero, Green Lantern/Dr Fate and especially the Batman/Brother Power the Geek ones were infinitely better.

I think it was because the Blackhawks were such non-entities in the story. As Lard Lad (or someone) said in an earlier post, that really could have been any group of soldiers Flash was trekking around with. They didn't even get to fly for cripes sake! And short-shrifting one of the headliners in a team-up book is a big minus IMO. Was still a great Flash story though.

I really hope JMS' new runs on Superman and Wonder Woman don't mean his work here begins to suffer though. Or worse, he leaves the book! That would be... very not good.

In regards to the Flash/Blackhawks story.

I've been thinking about it and I don't think it could have been just any other group of soldiers.

The Blackhawks were really out of their regular element as well, being stuck in a ground fight. They are infinitely more at home in the clouds, and were doing their best on the ground when this "Hero" from the future shows up. They have to teach Barry a hard lesson, and they learn a little in return.

Any other group of grunts may not have had the same patience with Barry as they did. They understood the concept of being out of your element, and knew the horrors of war and how hard it can be to adapt.

I cannot see Sgt. Rock being as calm with him, no matter what he has been through. Not to say that Rock is an ass, but that he is a different type of soldier than the Blackhawks.

Great point Dev about the Blackhawks also being out of their element.

I also think from a primarily "artistic" view of all the issues--which have all been fantastic--the two best may have been the Flash/Blackhawks (great war scenery) and Etrigan/Aquaman (really beautiful underwater scenery).

*However*, the best 'clash' of costumes that just felt really dynamic was probably Green Lantern and Dr. Fate. Those costumes just 'pop' together! I want them to team up more.

B&tB # 33 - Wonder Woman, Zatanna and Batgirl

Not going to spoil anything, but go and buy this issue. Read it. It's great, and nothing that you'd expect.

Wow.

Did anyone honestly see that coming?

Kinda, but the way they went about the whole issue was unbelievable. Soooo touching.

I figured it's what Zee saw at the beginning, but wasn't sure what they were doing with it.

Great issue! Really moving ...

The last page is unbelievably touching. Probably the best issue of his run for me.

Oh God this book makes me want to write comics like that SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO badly!

Is JMS going to be able to stay on B & B when he takes over Wonder Woman and Superman?

This issue(#33) is so incredibly good!!
I actually cried at the end!!
I implore my fellow LegionWorlders to read it!!

Missed #33 by a day (drat!) but read the Aquaman/Demon issue. It's good to see Aquaman all noble and powerful. I get annoyed reading the Demon's rhymings, though.

The creature from the other dimension reminded me of the great Vampire Squid, a term that Matt Taibbi used to describe Goldman Sachs, so the issue had some topical interest for me.

This issue and Supergirl #52 made for good reading together ...

I read that yesterday! The story was very interesting, but the art was absolutely GORGEOUS, even moreso than what I've come to expect of Saiz's excellent work on this series. That full page with Aquaman and his army--WOW! The darker inks as showcased in this underwater setting were just perfect. I wouldn't mind seeing his inks being heavier like this in the future at all.

Can't say a lot about Etrigan here, though. He was mostly there to rhyme and provide the fire to Aquaman's water. Aquaman, however, came across very well, even though most of it was in the witness's narration.

So another good, good story by JMS. Not a clunker in the bunch, IMO. (Yeah, even the Atom/Joker issue was good, I thought!)

I wanna see him do one about Two Face & Hawk and Dove like he mentioned.

I just finished it and had to comment right away. Excellent issue... the moment Oracles were mentioned at the table I figured out what was going on and that still didn't lesson the impact of the "remember dancing" stuff.

SO glad you guys got me back onboard BaB after dropping months ago...

Did'ya notice the gals stopped at a gay bar!?!
FABOO!!

Like rhino, I cried at the end of this issue too! In fact I started crying about half way through because I knew where it was leading... not due to any gifted powers of insight that I might share with Zatanna but thanks to a *&%^&$%$ *%^%£!& who spoiled the end of this book in his thread title(!) over at Comic Book Resources! Dante needs to invent a new level of Hell for people who do that!

Another fantastic issue of B&B though. Simply amazing on every level. Cliff Chiang is simply one of the most incredible artists working in the biz today. LOVE his stuff. And JMS's story was like a stealth missile the way it crept up on you. What starts a fun, fluffy girls-night-out type story slowly gets stranger and more ominous until that devastating ending.

And all the fun touches - the gay bar! dancing with the oldies at the Latin restaurant! karaoke to 'Single Ladies'! the 'kiss' between Diana and Zee!

I posted in some other thread that JMS' run of stories here will be talked about in the future as one of the best comic runs of all time. And I stand by that. Every issue has been a knockout. (Yes, even that Joker/Atom issue which I disliked initially because of my Joker-hatred but upon a reread thought to be a top-notch story.)

I pray his new commitments to the Superman and Wonder Woman books don't mean that this one gets dropped. It is my favourite book in all of comics right now!

I'll admit it, I welled up a bit at the end. Very few comics have ever been able to do that to me...this one built to it in sich a way that you could feel it coming, but kept hoping that there would be a different ending to it...but the dialog on the last page, my God.

JMS is writing some of the best stories out at teh moment, and they're all one issue stories. Writers should be looking at this run and taking notes. This is how you do it.

To be honest, I didn't notice it was a gay bar until I re-read it. No big deal, though.

Whoo! I'm #100!

My new ranking of the JMS B&Bs so far -

1. Batman & Brother Power the Geek
2. Wonder Woman, Zatanna & Batgirl
3. Batman & Dial H for Hero
4. Green Lantern & Dr Fate
5. Aquaman & the Demon
6. Flash & the Blackhawks
7. Atom & the Joker

...

Worryingly, I'm only noticing about 5 or 6 Legion Worlders regularly posting in this thread. Is that everyone on here who is buying this great book? If not, reveal yourselves silent B&B fans!

If so, why aren't you buying this great book? Pages of glowing reviews from some of the most well-respected comic fans on this forum ( ) about a book that gets right what so many fans complain is wrong about modern comics and yet it doesn't have strong sales. It's a crime! Buy. Read. Love The Brave and the Bold.

B&B was the second comic I read out of a giant stack of 5 weeks worth of comics; all of the praise you've guys have given it is well deserved and even understated. It was just absolutely awesome in its emotional impact and beautiful portrayal of the characters.

One of the best so far. It's almost too hard to get into a nuts & bolts review of it. Like Lash, it was the diner sequence where I finally realized what the story was going to be about and that just heightened the final pages as I read towards the end. The final page itself was very moving.

How can you read this issue and not love Zatanna and Wonder Woman? This was a side of Diana that many writers leave out but I feel is equally important.

It was beyond fun and then became very poignant. Bravo JMS--we expect a great deal from you and you exceeded our expectations!

PS - I agree Blacula, we need to spread the word! Use the Shoutbox! Lardy's Roundtable thread! Any recommendations thread! Your sig! Every single comic book fan should be reading this!

I'm not sure if I commented on the Joker / Atom issue. I liked it quite a bit! I thought it was a solid read, definitely. Like many I'm burnt out on the Joker too, but I think we all owe it to ourselves to let it go and enjoy a good story when it comes along. I'd probably rank it as my least fave of the run so far too but it was still a good story and worth the purchase.

I just got the Aquaman/Demon one, and am looking forward to any with Legion ties.

On the one hand, I love what they were trying to do with the Aquaman/Demon story.

On the other hand, I find 'ruler of 70% of the earth's surface' to be a bit pretentious of a statement for a dude who is the ruler of a city that gets destroyed every 10 years (or he gets exiled, deposed, usurped or flat-out fired by his 'subjects'). I'm already a fan of Aquaman, and greatly respect his power, so the preachiness of the NPC dude trying to impress me with how much sea life exists in a mile, blah-blah, 'king of the seas' was just tiresome.

Too much talking about how awesome Aquadude is. I'm not reading a novel. I want to be *shown* how awesome Aquadude is (and not have him outshone at the end by the Demon, who fries the big bad dude with a wave of his hand). Comics should be a visual medium, and, like the voice-over version of Blade Runner, I feel like the constant sycophantic ass-kissing by the NPC detracted from the actual presentation of the story.

for the less than one week until the Legion/Doom Patrol issue. Can't wait!

The solicit for the Adam Strange/Lois Lane issue looks fab too. Is that the last of the coming team-ups that JMS had already revealed to us? I can only think of Swamp Thing/Lex Luthor and Two-Face/Hawk & Dove as mentioned team-ups we haven't seen yet and I think I remember him saying he couldn't do them for whatever reason.

Wondering who is going to team up next is half the fun of this book. I can't wait to find out who it will be.

Yeah, the Adam Strange / Lois story just looks mind-blowingly awesome. Many LWers will recall I sometimes use an Adam Strange avatar as he's one of my all-time favorites characters and I can't wait for him to get the JMS treatment, plus he'll be with Lois, one of the greatest comic book characters of all time (whose non-Superman adventures are always cool).

I was thinking about how you (Blacula) are the biggest promoter of this book on Legion World and it occurred to me that you even liked the Atom/Joker team-up, and you probably hate the Joker more than any other person in the real and fictional world (including Jim Gordon). So that's quite a compliment!

Well my <strike>ir</strike>rational hatred of the Joker initially prevented me from liking the Atom/Joker team-up and I actually considered it the first dud story in the JMS run.

But when I went back and read it with a forced ignorance of who the Joker is or how completely over-used he is at DC, and took the story on its own merits - I realised it was actually quite a cool, well-written tale. It kinda reminds me of the movie Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind which is one of my favourite movies.

It's still nowhere near as good as some of JMS' other issues though - particularly Batman/Brother Power the Geek, Wonder Woman/Zatanna/Batgirl and Batman/Dial-H-for-Hero which are all practically flawless IMO.

I've totally given up trying to figure out the rhyme or reason for the characters he chooses...I've learned to just love each and every issue. I mean seriously, the worst issue of this run is better than probably every other super hero comic out there.

This book thrills me!!
Even after you know what the team-up is gonna be, you still have no idea where the story's gonna go!!

I skimmed through the current issue -- LSH/Doom Patrol -- at the comic shop, and to be honest it didn't engage me. I found it rather slow and talky.

Then again, maybe it's not the kind of book that can be truly appreciated unless one gives it focus and patience.

Hopefully there will be a trade of the early JMS issues soon, and hopefully my library will add it to their catalogue in a timely manner.

I liked the Doom Patrol/Legion team up. It was kind of a sweet little story. This is a much better portrayal of young Garth than we've seen so far with the Approximate Legion.

Finally, somebody is calling the time bubble a time bubble instead of a time sphere. Speaking of which, that was a pretty major reveal about how the the thing works. I'm anxious to hear what everyone else thinks about it.

The issue is definitely worth picking up for the dialogue between Imra and Cliff. Plus three pages of shirtless Cosmic Boy.

Siaz gets an A+ for the artwork. Somebody scan the splash page from page 15 already. I need a new wallpaper and it's perfect.

Awesome. The man doesn't even take his birthday off. Thanks, Nightcrawler.

I should've been able to enjoy this more today.

I'm not going to be able to pick this issue up until next week. Would someone mind posting a list of which Legionnaires appear in this issue?

IIRC, it was just the founders: Imra, Garth, and Rokk.

I checked the DC website, and the first JMS B&B collection is due in August, rather awkwardly titled Team-Ups of the Brave and the Bold: Volume 1. Strange title or no, that's great news.

I would have preferred a bigger Legion cast.

^ DIT. TO. :angry:

I like the founders well enough but I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOO bored of them (and Brainy) as the constant focus of stories!

Double ditto, although I'm still looking forward to reading this. It would have been a good opportunity to use some of the more fringe Legionnaires with the self-defined DP freaks.

When the Founders get precedence over the rest of the Legion, Blacula's reaction is akin to his reaction to a Joker appearance (to a lesser degree), so I'm curious as to what his thoughts will be on the story!

JMS got Blacula to like a Joker story (not love, mind you ), so this should be interesting.

^Er, that's meant to be taken in good fun, since I have similar feelings about characters & concepts & art styles (it's funny how we know each other's tastes pretty well over the years).

^ I take everything at Legion World in good fun CK.

And no, I don't wear my boredom of the founders and Brainy (and my dislike of the Joker) under my sleeve do I?

I just hate reading a title that's meant to be an ensemble book spending so much time spotlighting 3 or 4 panel-hogging characters.

IMO the Legion is fast becoming a solo book with four rotating leads while everyone else on the team fills the role of background supporting cast. And that is very bad thing for this franchise.

I hope Paul Levitz can turn the ship around though.

But back to Brave and Bold - all the above said, I am of course still very much looking forward to this issue. JMS hasn't put a foot wrong yet and I doubt he will with my favourite team and characters I really like (despite my boredom of them).

The amazing thing about JMS' team-ups is that (other than this one, the Subs/Inferior 5 next issue and Adam Strange/Lois Lane after that) I haven't actually really looked forward to any of the pairings we've gotten yet. Wonder Woman/Zatanna/Batgirl - a ho-hum, girls-night-out story I was thinking. Batman/Brother Power the Geek - how good a story could Brother Power possibly have in him?

And yet JMS has just blown me out of the water with his powerful storytelling (and all the incredible art of course). He even got me to like that Joker story which is of course no mean feat.

So yep - I'm still pretty darn excited for the Legion/Doom Patrol pairing. Even if I do think (without having read it yet) that it will probably be a missed opportunity to spread some love the way of some of the lesser-seen members.

And hey - he's giving us the whole Subs team next month, and they're as 'lesser-seen' as they come. So I can't complain too much.

I enjoyed it well enough... I agree it WAS a bit too talky... but there were some suprise funny moments too, and the art is SO nice.

And really, the reveal about the time bubble was worth the price of admission.

I'm REALLLLY looking forward to next ish!

Read the issue and I thought it was terrific! The fact that it was only the founders aside, I loved seeing the Legion team-up with the Doom Patrol and I loved the super-science nature to it. That was an excellent story that I would recommend everyone by, whether a Legion fan or not. Legion fans are getting a huge treat this month by having two 'previously unrevealed' Legion tales between this and Adventure.

While I wouldn't rank this as the best of JMS' B&B run so far, I would say it was right in the middle, like the GL/Dr. Fate team-up.

The best part was JMS's ability to give every single character within the issue a chance to shine. Saturn Girl reminds us why she's the leading lady of the Legion, Garth is heroic and shows off his leadership skills, Robotman is funny but when it matters he shows he's a true hero ready to make the ultimate sacrific, and Negative Man is incredibly quirky and weird in a cool way.

I'm looking forward to part #2 to see where the minor things will match up (like the pink puff ball, etc.).

The story was more plot driven but that's okay--B&B is a comic that should be more plot driven.

Jesus Saiz's artwork was stellar like usual. He really drew an attractive Saturn Girl! Very beautiful face. And his heroes looked very heroic.

Gonna be glad to see the "flip" side of this story. See alll the weird things explained.

I would love to see Giffen have the Legionnaires visit the DP at this point in their lives now that they're older.

BTW, JMS did with Cliff the same thing all of the best DP writers have done: they basically make Cliff seem like the coolest guy you'd ever want to hang out with.

Finally read the Legion/Doom Patrol issue and loved it.

I'd write more but Cobalt Kid has already pretty much said exactly what I would have so just re-read his post three up from this one.

I was actually pretty underwhelmed by this story. I think it may have actually been the weakest of JMS's run thus far. It didn't suck or anything--but it also didn't make very much sense.

My main problem was the threat of the black hole. I was waiting for an explanation that we never got. What caused it to appear? Why did it reach the Earth so much quicker than Garth expected it to? I mean, did I miss something?

I suppose that could all be explained in the Subs/IF follow-up. I doubt it, but if so, that wouldn't make this particular story any stronger for it.

And the Legionnaires went to find the DP because they needed "someone who can control ridiculous amounts of energy"? I've never felt that was something that described Negative Man and his powers. Seems like there had to be any number of other DCU characters who would've fit that bill better.

No, I think JMS missed an opportunity to have the DP and that iteration of the LSH face something a lot more goofy and Silver Agey that would've been more appropriate to the characters and more memorable. I suspect the next issue will give me more of what I was hoping for in tone and story here.

I hope so, at least.

This was definitely my favorite scene from the last issue. Overall I've found the JMS run to be just alright, every issue feels very decompressed (albeit I did skip the Ladies Night Out issue).

^Imra looks and acts incredibly attractive in this story. That isn't too unusual in Legion history, but more so than I've seen in quite awhile.

I wasn't impressed with this one. The story itself wasn't very compelling, there was too much exposition and science-y mumbo jumbo and I get that there's another half to this story (in a "Back to the Future II" kinda way) but it didn't make this half of the story more enjoyable - it seemed to function solely to set up the next issue.

Guess we know how that black hole got there so quickly.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=5749&disp=table

Hooray for the Inferior Five and Legion of Substitute Heroes issue. This was laugh out loud funny. It's the best treatment the subs have had in years, and perhaps the best treatment for the Inferior Five ever. Those who were disappointed in last issue need to pick this one up. It was definitely part one of a two parter. The payoff for a lot of what happened last time is here. Very clever.

I love that one panel at the end where they're looking at us with puppy dog eyes.

Yeah, it's a priceless panel.

And Night Girl going "SILENCE!"

But...they didn't really do anything other than talk about doing things.

This two-part story would have been 100 times better if the time travel was left to a minimum and he concentrated on the characters doing something (besides last issue's improbable power display that didn't make sense).

I'd have preferred they all tackle a villain or group of villains. That would have had much better pay offs and more story fodder.

My thought exactly ... plus I'd thought we'd get to see more of the Chief being annoyed by the Subs ...

There's no fighting in this book, but there's no need for it. The most intriguing part is the mix of the Subs and the Five. The Subs are heroes who were rejected from the Legion because their powers are either lame, or they lacked proper control. The Five are legacy heroes (their moms and dads were all proper heroes), but they're powers are heavily dampened, their courage and strength is lacking, or they aren't smart enough. The Subs WANT to be taken seriously, but it's not gonna happen for a while. The Five KNOW they're ridiculous, but they're comfortable with it and enjoy being with each other. The Five basically drive the Subs crazy.

But...they also didn't really interact much. At the very least this story should have given me a feel for most of the characters and I got nothing. Other than Dumb Bunny almost all the word balloons could have come from any of them and not read any differently.

This is the great writing that everyone is raving about? I'm not impressed. DC COMICS PRESENTS #59 owns this story. That one had the laughs and made you familiar and interested in the characters.

This story only matters to me for my Legion completion needs, it did nothing to endear these characters in my mind.

The BraVe and The Bold 35

Cause someone has to talk about it...

FUNNY ! FUNNY ! FUNNY! totally hilarious.

Ran through it fast before I had to go out and the ART is incredible, just gorgeous!
The Inferior Five are so adorable.
And the story ties into the Legion/Doom Patrol story!
sigh
More comments after a thorough reading.

This made me smile for so many reasons. For those of you who don't know, the Inferior Five's constant breaking of the Fourth Wall comes from their time in Limbo. In the pages of Grant Morrison's Animal Man in 1989, Merryman and the others had been part of an entire tier of characters stuck in Limbo, the realm where forgotten comic characters go when they're taken out of continuity. Since then, Dumb Bunny has been the only one to make the most appearances out of Limbo.

There's no fighting in this book, but there's no need for it. The most intriguing part is the mix of the Subs and the Five. The Subs are heroes who were rejected from the Legion because their powers are either lame, or they lacked proper control. The Five are legacy heroes (their moms and dads were all proper heroes), but they're powers are heavily dampened, their courage and strength is lacking, or they aren't smart enough. The Subs WANT to be taken seriously, but it's not gonna happen for a while. The Five KNOW they're ridiculous, but they're comfortable with it and enjoy being with each other. The Five basically drive the Subs crazy.

This book also answers some of the questions from the previous one, as to how the black hole got to Earth so quickly, the constantly moving time bubbles, and how Dumb Bunny's tail wound up in the bubble's controls.

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My favourite moment was when Dumb BUnny said to the Subs: "Y'know, I don't say this very often, but this time I think that YOU'RE confused."

Bwah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha hah!

Jeepers, for me the whole point of the story was that nothing really happened!!
It was like an absurdist comedy where the characters just satirize everything, including themselves and the story they're stuck in.
They poked fun at the readers, the inherent contradictions of science fiction and the current state of comic books as well.
I was giggling from beginning to end & had a couple of laugh out loud moments!
The art was simply incredible!!

did anyone love those dog eyes they did at the end?

at this point they should totally have a time travel scene with them and the JLI lol. Pure insanity and you know Guy would so hit on Dumb Bunny.

I did.

Just read it and all I can say is.... Oh, My!

Hi, Mod talk here. There is already a Brave & Bold thread at Dr. Gym'll's. I am going to move this thread to Dr. Gym'll's and then have it combined with the other thread.

I found the lack of action disappointing. The Inferior Five didn't really get to do anything. I only found the story mildly amusing, not downright funny. And thinking about the story, I find it is out of character for the Subs to think of the Legion as gloryhounds and wanting to get some glory themselves.

The art was very good. I wouldn't mind seeing an Inferior Five mini-series.

Just got it, and, not being terribly familiar with the Inferior Five, I wonder if they have super-powers or are just idiots in costumes. (Although Blimp seems to be able to fly...)

If I didn't know the Subs, I'd wonder if they had super-powers, too. It's not like they used any.

Other random thoughts;

Night Girl being the smart and responsible one was a nice touch, 'though.

With as much exposition as went on, some characters just didn't seem to get as much play (Stone Boy, for instance).

I kinda got used to a heavier Chlorophyll Kid, so seeing him all svelte again was a bit of a double-take.

Inferior Five;

Dumb Bunny: Super strength
Blimp: Can fly as long as there is no headwind. (his father was a super-speeder)
AwkwardMan: Super Strength & ability to breath underwater, but very clumsy
White Feather: Master Archer, but cowardly
Merry Man: no powers. Kind of a weakling, but the brains of the group. Forced into superheroing by his superhero parents.

Further Info:

Dumb Bunny: daughter of Princess Power (a Wonder Woman analogue)
Blimp: son of Captain Swift (a Flash/Johnny Quick analogue)
AwkwardMan: son of Mr. Might and the Mermaid (Superman and Aquaman analogues)
White Feather: son of the Bowman (Green Arrow analogue)
Merryman: son of the Patriot and Lady Liberty (Uncle Sam and Miss America analogues)

like the prior LSH/DP story, some of the characterizations were a bit out of sync.

it was neat to see the two stories interwoven as they were; #34 certainly didn't feel like a complete story on its own.

it was fun, with a few neat moments/gags.

I didn't mind the lack of action; it fit the bumbling nature of this story.

The panel where Dumb Bunny's hand is resting on Blimp's moob and he's like, "Not that I mind, but that's not an air valve..." was hilarious.

Loved it. For me, the whole point was that no matter what they did, nothing was going to go right for them. Plus, the I5 are in the here and now...

Technically Dumb Bunny and Blimp were before the others.

Future B&B team-ups according to JMS at Comic Con -

* Pa Kent & Jor-El
* Metal Men & Challengers of the Unknown

Still no word on that early-mentioned Two Face & Hawk & Dove team-up I'm dying for.

Pa Kent and Jor-el! I wonder why nobody thought of that before. Ma Kent and Lara might have been funnier, though.

They smack-talked my girl Infectious Lass!!

Hmm.. I found it not as funny as, say BOOSTER GOLD # 34, but funnier than say, your average issue of ARCHIE.

Nobody really did much of anything.

I think the one thing that was VERY VERY cool was that this story firmly established the I5 in the present-day. Nice.

They came pretty close back in 1979 with a story called "The Shadow of Jor-El". It was published in Superman Family #196 and reprinted in a Best of DC digest printed at the end of the year. It was a sweet story told by Legion alums Cary Bates and Joe Staton. Jonathan Kent worked through his feelings inferiority related to great scientist Jor-El. I hope the new team up manages to recreate the tone.

I'm with Rhino in my view of the story. I found it very charming, even if it wasn't the funniest comic of the month.

I think for LSH fans who tuned in only for these stories, it might be dissapointing. But JMS is really writing the B&B stories in the frame of mind of making them different from all his other B&B stories. So this was a 'nothing happens story' because he hasn't written one of those yet for B&B. It's the same reason he picked only the 3 founders--he doesn't care if the last 100 Legion stories featured heavily the 3 founders, he just hadn't used them yet in B&B.

I think the real rising star in this series is Jesus Saiz. His artwork was excellent from the get-go but its just becoming one of my favorite things in COMICS. I love that he can make the characters look so attractive without making it all T&A. Dumb Bunny seemed very sexy in a more subdued way which was refreshing. He also nails it on facial expressions and cosmic events. JMS and Saiz just feel so in sync right now.

I think it says a lot that JMS would use the Inferior Five in the first place. This is a grouop that was actually eliminated from continuity by Crisis and DC editorial had no use for, for decades. It was a sweet way to end the issue to have them firmly in the present DCU. Prior to this issue if someone asked me if I'd care to see them in a comic, my response would have been: "I guess ". Now it's a definite "sure!"

Both sound beyond awesome as does the upcoming Adam Strange / Lois Lane story! I hope B&B under JMS and Saiz continues in perpetuity!

I think the I-5 thing has GOT to be leading somewhere. Hope so. I'd love to see it.

Maybe Superman will meet them in his trip cross-country!

That, of course, would put Princess Power, et. al., in the 60s or 70s or so!

Allies of the Justice Experience!

Just read this issue and *LOVED* it! I totally agree with rhino and CK - the fact that the Subs and the I5 didn't get to do anything was the whole point of the issue. In contrast to the Legion last month who were completely successful and skilled in everything they set their minds to, the two teams this month were so inept and chaotic that, even though their hearts and intentions were in the right place, every plan they came up with kept making the problem worse. That was totally charming and funny IMO.

As was a whole lot of the rest of the issue too! Much funnier than anything I read by Giffen in any of the Metal Men back-ups in Doom Patrol for example.

Totally agree about the wonderful Saiz art too! He's not big on backgrounds (which is normally a critical point in my judgement of an artist), though when he does do them he does them well, but his character work is just fantastic. He would SO rock on Adventure Comics instead of Kevin Sharpe but he will only be leaving this book over my cold, dead body!

Broken record Blacula has said it before and will say it again - JMS and Saiz are delivering one of the best titles on the stands today with this book. If it gets cancelled before its time I will personally hunt down everyone who didn't support it and cry on their doorstep!

Quick change of pace -

I love creative comic blogs and this one is a pretty fun one IMO.

SO fab seeing those old Aparo/Adams and others pictures again and I love a lot of the interesting pairings this blogger comes up with -

http://braveandboldlost.blogspot.com/

My favourites are the Batman/Avengers one (because Batman so would be arrogant enough to kick off half the members of that team and take over ) and the Batman/Sugar & Spike one (for the sheer hilarious absurdity of it).

^Those were great! Loved 'em all!

The Sugar & Spike one was awesomely hilarious.

They were great, and most of them were pretty serious (barring company crossovers). Still missing: Batman and Krypto.

I love the covers he picked. Batman and the Beast and Batman and the Avengers looked awesome.

And I'm strangely intrigued by the idea of someone dusting off the Blue Falcon and making a real super-hero out of him. (Dyno-mutt, not so much...)

Same strange intrigue here ... as a kid, I thought the Blue Falcon was cool ... the rest of these are great ...

anybody planning on picking up the JMS B&B hardcover?

I've got all the individual issues, so no.

I only buy the hardcovers in case they have extra features like deleted pages and character sketches. I doubt this one will.

Well, for reasons I can't recall, I put the B&B hardcover out of my mind at didn't get around to putting in the inter-library request until last week.

My thoughts on each of the 7 stories:

Batman/Dial H For Hero -- Not bad, nothing Earth-shaking. Nice to see a modern DC story about somebody finding the best in themselves, though.

Flash/Blackhawks -- The weakest one, I thought. It misses out on what made the Blackhawks fun, and the emotional repercussions of what Flash went through are not even hinted at by the end. Maybe as a two-parter or three-parter it might have worked, but not this way.

Batman/Brother Power the Geek -- Very good. As others have already pointed out earlier in this thread, the Geek represents our potential to bring out the best out of ourselves, and reminds us that it's always there and could come back in the future (maybe even this decade?)

Green Lantern/Dr. Fate -- JMS *gets* Hal! I want him to do a GL graphic novel. Possibly my favorite.

Joker/Atom -- The second weakest, I thought. It does nothing to bring out Ray Palmer's personality (admittedly, he's never had much of one, but JMS should have been able to find it) and I think it's a waste of time theorizing on why the Joker is the way he is. Gets an edge over the Flash/Blackhawks one only because it fit the done-in-one mold.

Aquaman/Demon -- Third weakest. To paraphrase what Set said earlier in this thread, we don't need someone to TELL us Aquaman is awesome, it has to be SHOWN to us. And I'm not convinced he is, but then I've never liked Aquaman much. I loved Peter David's bad-ass mystical Aquaman, but that seems to have been a fluke. And the Demon was too nice, even if he did torch the monster at the end. The Demon should always be a nasty piece of work, even when he's a "good guy."

Batgirl/Zatanna/Wonder Woman -- Ends the trade on a very strong note. Like Lash, I figured out where the story was going before it got there, but that didn't make it any less compelling or well-written.

I just did some searching to try to find out the current status of B&B, and it seems to have quitely disappeared. A shame. Guess I'll have to look for the remaining issues, as I doubt there's enough for another trade.

I've been totes straightening up my 2nd bedroom/comicbook room, and realized there's been no new BatB since the Subs/I5 issue?

Is it cancelled then?

I honestly don't know if there's ever been any official word at all. I know at least 2 more issues were solicited but never shipped. Jor-El/Pa Kent and Lois Lane/Adam Strange, IIRC.

Given JMS and his "quitting" monthly comics...my guess is that the series is toast.

No official word that I have heard yet, but it does not look promising.

Quitting com-- *sputter!!* didn't he recently take on both Superman and WOnder Woman? WTF--! Who the hell quits writing comics after taking those 2 titles on...?

Wild.

You seriously didn't know about this? Hmmm...

http://dcu.blog.dccomics.com/2010/11/10/breaking-news-superman-earth-one-sequel-in-the-works/

I depend on Legion WOrld pretty exclusively for comics news, so thanks for the link. I had no clue.

I keep holding out that more B&B issues are coming (with or without JMS). I guess I'll wait longer before I put the stack of comics away...

Not that it wasn't already pretty obvious but Dan Didio just confirmed at a recent Con that this book has indeed been cancelled.

<----- sobs uncontrollably for 5 minutes. Recomposes himself.

Apparently JMS just wants to concentrate on his Earth One OGNs so the "brain-trust" at DC have decided that because they think some readers might 'confuse this book with the all-ages Batman: The Brave and the Bold book', they're just going to cancel this one.

I all over the editors at DC!

I hope they all get burnt by the clap!

...FU

This was no surprise, but I wish they would have at least produced the last two issues that were solicited: Pa Kent/Jor-El and Lois Lane/Adam Strange, IIRC! Those both sounded like classics.

I was really looking forward to Lois Lane and Adam Strange. This is the first time I can recall a book being cancelled by just letting it fade away... into deadline issues.... uh, oh yeah... we cancelled that one. Strange days in the comics business indeed.