For those who haven't read "The Ultimates" #12, it has the funnniest line I've read in months!

Cap is in the middle of a really bloody, knock-down, drag-out fight with the Nazi alien bad guy and the bad guy has Cap on the ropes, beating him to within an inch of his life. Cap keeps trying to fight though and the alien tells Cap to just surrender, to which Cap responds:
"Surrender? Surrender??!!" As he takes his shield and rams it through the alien's mid-section, bisecting him (this ain't your dad's Captain America (though maybe your grand dad's...)), he then says (in a big full page splash of his bloody face):
"You think this letter on my head stands for France?"

Yeah, it's jingoistic and un p.c. (sorry to any French people in this board)- but that really made me laugh out loud

Classic! When did the issue finally hit the stands, yesterday? It would figure to be since I didn't think there was much worth picking up this week that couldn't wait for next.

I found that scene to be of very bad taste, and I'm not even French. It's these sort of things that help pepetuate stereotypes that are then very difficult to get rid of.
I wasn't amused.
Juan

Agreed

I'm curious -- which stereotypes are you referring to?

For me, part of the humor comes from the fact that the "Ultimate" Captain America is in no way the hero that the Marvel Cap is. Millar's already shown that this guy is a prick -- more Guy Gardner than Hal Jordan in terms of heroic molds. He's been shown as representative of a particular kind of "ugly american" and as a satirical figure -- especially one who looks almost exactly like one who's promoted as the ideal hero -- his comment comes off as fitting perfectly with the kind of man this Captain is and at the same time so unlike what we expect from the good old Cap we know.

That the French are wimps. This particular stereotype (if it's already one) is new as far as I know, I've only seen it after the French/American disagreement on Iraq. But it's scenes like this one that will help perpetuate it.

And regarding this new, uglier Ultimate Captain America, I don't see the satire because I've never been a fan of the character, I don't know the "old" Cap so I can't tell the difference. All I see is Captain America making an ugly remark in a prominent place of a popular comic book.

Yuck.

Juan

I don't particularly find it funny either. Why would an "A" represent France? That's just stupid Cap, get a better gag writer.

But even beyond the joke not making much sense, it does perpetuate the anti-France stereotype - which I'm pretty sure does date back much farther than its recent flair-ups. I believe I've heard jokes about France's surrender to Germany in movies decades ago, but atm I can't think of a specific example.

[But to be fair I've never liked Millar's writing anyhow, so me not finding a joke he writes in a comic isn't particularly a shocking revelation].

Cap's comment is all the more ridiculous considering he comes from a country that wouldn't even exist if not for French intervention. Hmmmmmm.

I wasn't thrilled with that comment either.

The comment that I did find amusing was Thor's comment on having a big, scary hammer. That made me laugh out loud.

Cap is obviously the most nationalistic character (at least American) in comics, possibly ever.

I saw the page and laughed out loud because it was so goofy and pretentious. I mean, doesn't he say to an extraterrestrial, a Skrull?

I think it was intentionally satirical of jingoistic bluster. I mean c'mon, guys.

It's what a flight-jacket fraud like Dubya would say. Course, Dubya would say it stands for "Alamo!"

Others might suggest "Asshole."

Just posted at The Pulse by my friend Jen:

Well....

I got into ULTIMATES slightly late, buying issues 5-6 together to see what the hubub was about and then 1-4 together shortly after that. I ***LOVED*** them! Made me understand what "widescreen comics" were.

And I've enjoyed each subsequent issue.

But I must admit my enjoyment was somewhat dried up by the ridiculous wait between issues.

ULTIMATES was coming out, what, 3 times a year?

If they can keep a monthly schedule and even 75% of the current quality, I'd be surprised!

I was into this title for a bit, until they had Hank and Jan have that fight.

Then I was getting back into it until Cap yelled "You think this is France?!". T

hen, I kept saying that it was only Ultimates and not the real Avengers, and not to let it bother me...and then it stopped coming out so I eventually stopped caring.

I thought it was announced a while ago that 13 was to be the last issue and it would come back later as a Vol 2??? Maybe I was dreaming again...

Yeah, this is a postponement, not a cancellation.

It never made any sense, given their record, to solicit v2 #1 already.

Honestly, I haven't cared for the Ultimates. It basically took the Avengers I love and made them into real people.

I don't want to read about real people...

I certainly don't want to see Jan and Hank go at it ever again.

Ditto for me, verbattum

I really enjoyed the Ultimates. The last few issues of the Avengers left me wondering why I even bother with it anymore. Seems like whatever progress gets made with characters, we end up back with Cap, Wanda in the swimsuit, Hawkeye coming or going... whatever. They travelled this road in 1979, time to move on.

And besides, what was scarier than the idea of a horny Hulk? I laughed my ass off for days over that!

What's the problem with the Ultimates Hank and Jan?

Wasn't it hinted at in the Avengers that Hank beat Jan up anyway? Wasn't he some crazy drunk or something? Isn't that why they got divorced?

And yup Mr Londo - the Avengers seem at their worst when Cap's around. I do love Wanda though...

Actually I love Wanda too. It's just that we see a little bit of growth in her, a new outfit, control of her powers, maybe even a storyline that doesn't revolve around one of those two things....then that writer leaves and we're back to "default Wanda" with the swimsuit and vague hexes. Even icons like Superman and Wonder Woman have been developed more, and are much less "open" as it were to long-term changes.
I realize Marvel is taking a lot fewer risks these days, but c'mon... Wanda, Vision, Hank, Jan... no solo series' among them, why isn't there a subplot with them ALL the time?
What I liked about Ultimates was that actions had major repercussions, and they seemed willing to stick with them. Like there would be no "default" mode.
Does this make sense? I'm not advocating for change for it's own sake, just growth over time.
Like with Wally West, from immature asshole to slightly less immature, to finally growing up and taking responsibility.

I really really like(d) the Ultimates... and reading the last issue last night really made me realise how much I'm going to miss it in it's hiatus.

At least there's still Ellis' Ultimate FF to look forward too...

what, no ULTIMATES 2 thread? now feat. vol 3! How'd you like that awesome cover?

Since the Marvel-universe proper AVENGERS have disassembled and been replaced by Wolverine and Spider-Man this is the ONLY Avengers book for me.

I'll need to reread U2 #1 to be 100% sure, but on the first reading I wasn't really super-wowed by it. Likely because nothing "WIDESCREEN" was happening, really. It was an establishing issue. I bet things perk up next issue.

So is this a monthly? Bi-monthly, quarterly? The incredible art is usually worth the wait but I would prefer at least a bi-monthly schedule.

Don't really like that Thor has quit the team. That boy really needs to make up his mind: IS he or ISN'T he? (a member of the team) One thing he most certainly is is super-FINE! Yumm. Also enjoyed the appearance of Volstagg.

All in all, a little light on the action, but a good estabishing issue that left me ready to read U2 # 2!

The story goes that U2 is monthly. Hitch had several issues done before the first one hit the shops.

The real question is: Is Thor a total nutjob or is something else going on? He seemed genuinely surprised that no one else could see Volstagg. But there was that one guy with dark hair who was smiling as he walked by. I've heard others suggest that he might be Ultimate Loki (who we know escaped - or we think we know). Could it be that he's behind invisible Volstagg?

I really like how Ultimate Thor is being written. I'm sure it's Loki and other Asgardian stuff happening and he isn't crazy, but I like the reactions of others. Thor is probably my big-time Marvel Super-Hero besides Spidey, and it's good knowing I can see him somewhere.

I'm glad Millar is showing Hank Pym and Bruce Banner too and them becoming friends. I hope he continues to show levels of Hank's personality and that he isn't a bad guy...'cuz even though he's ultimate Hank, Hank is still a favorite.

Like you said Lash, this is the only place I can find my Avengers.

Hitch was already supposed to be on issue #7 by the time #1 hit so hopefully we'll get the monthly title they've promised.

#1 was okay, not a home run but at least a good double. I don't mind a slow start. And the promise of maybe some Ultimate Asgardians as well as the Hank/Bruce friendship should keep this title near the top for me.

Reread it last night, so here's some additional comments...

More Black Widow and Hawkeye, please! These guys need more screentime!

And poor Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver have had even LESS screentime than Natasha and Clint.

I like the intro of Ant Man, and it sounds like Utron and the Vision are on their way. I wonder what those other super-hero ideas Hank had were.

Volstagg's warning to Thor was super-ominous. I'm a little worried for him.

And nice to see that Bruce Banner continues to look exactly like our very own Allen/Beagle Boy (Beagz as he posts here).

I really liked how the ongoing joke in volume 1 was that Quicksilver and Wanda were never around during big battles and Pietro would say "I was moving so fast that you just couldn't see me...", leaving us to wonder if that was true.

Agreed on more Natasha and Clint too! Natasha is getting lots of screen time in "Ultimate Nightmare" with Cap and the freshly introduced Ultimate Falcon, which is a pretty good read.

I'd *love* to see an Ultimate Vision!! I hadn't thought of it before, but it could be awesome!

The most intriguing part for me so far is the handling of Thor - you really have no idea if they plan on making him a real Norse god or just a nutjob with superpowers. I'm a bit apprehensive that the solits say that the team will be fighting Thor. This team needs to do more than just fight amongst themselves.

And Fury as Sam Jackson continues to be distracting to me...

Leapin' Jeepers! Read U2 # 2 & 3 and I don't have a clue what is going on. Apparently Pietro and Wanda are dating, and Bruce Banner may or may not be dead? I liked the way Thor blew off surly ol' Captain America, though. Ultimate Thor rawks!

Pietro and Wanda are *not* dating - they just like spending time together (although I wouldn't put it past them to give us incestuous heroes).

I really liked the last issue and how they handled the countdown to Banner's execution - from the legalities, the publicity and the personal ramifications (esp Tony's line: "and they wonder why I drink"). They really made you feel for Bruce and what he was going though. The ending was great though -- I could almost hear the theme from the Hulk tv series at the end there...

I think we will see Vision and Ultron down the line.

Ultimate Thor does ROCK! I read #2 online somewhere and it was good. I did hear the music as Bruce walked away.

Best Avengers title in years!

So Bruce lived? That was Bruce at the end?

ultimates 2 #6

the ultimate defenders appear. it lists all the names except for the black guy. unless hes the new hellstorm but i assume the punked out kid is hellstorm. who is he? any guesses?

Black Knight

You really didn't get that part?

I assume from posts here it was an homage to the TV show. So how did he escape death and get there if it was him? None of it was very clear to me.

Didn't he wake up shortly before the explosion, freak out at where he was, have the change to Hulk triggered as a result, and escape at the lasr second?

That's what I figured happened, but I only skimmed through it in my shop.

I think that's what they want us to assume happened. It just seems like someone would have spotted the Hulk leaving the area at some point.

I dunno-- those last couple of pages of U2 # 3 could have been clearer, I think.

I agree, but I think the idea was to leave you wondering until the last panels, and clarity in that sequence takes power away from those.

I'm guessing we're meant to assume the effects of the explosion prevented easy detection of the escaping Hulk.

I think, in the panel that shows Banner's eyes opening, they should have added a gray-ish "Hulk" tint to his skin, to suggest he was transforming.

Oh well, no big deal really.

But I'll miss seeing ol' Beagz every month in U2!

[turns off Comic Book Logic mode]

Plus... wouldn't it have been easier to simply shoot Banner with their high-powered guns while he was doped up instead of setting up that elaborate, time-consuming bomb drop thing in the middle of the ocean?

[turns Comic Book Logic mode back on]


Looking forward to # 4!

That was my assumption. He had the glowing green eyes. There have been rumors about an Ultimate Hulk mini for a long time now. I think he's doing just fine.

Wasn't Ultimate Hulk originally green when he appeared in the pages of Ultimate Team-Up? Since his eyes had the green tinge to them at the end of the issue, I had the feeling he was turning green again. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Issue # 4 was a goodie. Spoilers of said issue follow.


So Hawkeye is married with kids and he & Natasha were having an affair? And now Natasha is all up with Tony Stark? It's just like the real world!

Not crazy about the "Black Widow" armour. For one thing, it's ugly. I'd rather see Ulti-Natasha more like Marvel Universe-proper Black Widow. Oh, well.

Gawd, how I love Ultimate Thor. *I'M* almost covinced he's a nutcase now. Good, suspenseful writing. I *lOOOOved* the scene with the Ultimates stepping out of the woods. Creepy, Kewl.

I think with this issue, the book reached the levels of the first series again.

i'm rooting for thor against everyone.

Ultimate Thor will probably get commited to a nuthouse or something, drugged and drooling in a rubber room. Then we'll see his brother reveal himself as Loki, having won his final victory...

Diaster, I'm with you. I can't wait to see Thor hand them their collective asses. He's a freakin' god! (I agree with Thor that Loki is behind it all.)

ferro, gunnar looked a bit too much like loki to be coincidence. i think only cap britain stands a chance against thor. ultimate iron man isn't up to par with thor like regular iron man is somewhat comparable to regular thor. unless they all have some secret anti-thor technology on the tip of hawkeye's arrow.

maybe we will see the scarlet witch in action.

Gunnar is absolutely Loki. The hair, the eyes... there's no doubt in my mind.

Don't dismiss Captain America's trademarked super-kick to the testicles!

not thor's godly genitals!

Jillikers!! If Cap hurts Thor's nads, I'll be pissed!!

Yeah, Disaster, I figure Scarlet Witch will be the only one who could take Thor down wether he's for real or a human using stolen tech.

# 5 is going to be great.

Something else else that someone posted elsewhere:

[img]http://tinypic.com/2kj9kx[/img]

I spotted him in the dner scene but missed him in the protestor crowd. Looks like Thor's on the level. Good.

Although I would still love him regardless, I think having him be an actual nutbag with stolen tech would horribly damage the character in the long run for the sake of one fleeting "SHOCK VALUE!!" moment.

As tough as Cap is I don't think he wants any part of Thor.

I hope that is Loki!

I've been buying Ultimates in trade but nice to read some spoilers.

I like the Tony-Natasha-Hawkeye thing. Hawkeye works with a wife and kids. Tony and Natasha IMO have always been a natural couple.

Part of the strength of the Ultimates is not worrying about old continuity or solo books as much. I mean the writer of the Avengers is writing a romantic thing for Tony but the Iron Man writer bring Pepper back yet again.(ugh) Geez if Ultimate Pepper shows up I may kill myself.

(so how are we going to make sure Jorg doesn't see the latest issue??)

Actually, don't worry Jorg - she only had one line and appeared to only be a member of Tony's support staff (as well as Happy). Whether she'll play a larger role in "Ultimate Iron Man" remains to be seen...

Drake...NOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Ugh I'm so over Pepper already. She was cool in the Marvel Age flashbacks but I think she should stay there. doh!

The only "secret weapon" that could possibly take down Thor is the Hulk, and we know he's out of the picture for now. However, I admit that Cap lasted a lot longer against the Hulk than I would ever have suspected was possible.

where is lester spiffany when you need him?

Ok, it's more a glass cage than a rubber rooom, but still...

I like that they still left it a bit open to interpretation that he might still be nuts. The thing is, if he's really the son of Odin, why would the belt be the source of his power? Did Loki warp reality to make it so or was the power belt story a cover for a more mystic reason for Thor's weakness?

I thought the fight was done well - you couldn't help but feel sorry for Thor. It reminded me more of the villagers with their torches persecuting Frankenstien's monster than the Christ analogy Millar was trying to convey.

The notion of a traitor within the team is interesting. The only one it probably can't be is Pym cuz that's been done to death.

ahh the ultimates beat up my boy thor this week. i hate them all. except for quicksilver who probably hates his most likely mutie hating team mates.

thor went too easy on them cause he's a hero, otherwise natasha would be hammered in half. i expected at least some of the captains to eat it. i bet captain france saw more action than sideliner captain A.

why are thor's his powers dependent ona belt when loki's are not? maybe you are right drake.

and the loki that is haunting him happens to look just like gunnar? hmmm. well thor was right about the middle east deployment at least.

by the way, wasp should be dead. dead. stomach acid? i wouldn't say i missed that computer genius turned rebound mrs. steve rodgers. thor shoulda bit down instead of swallowed.

the ultimates are starting to all seem like government sheep or tools, which makes sense cause it's a government team. except tony who is spineless. maybe he's the traitor, i bet it's that natasha, who is my least favorite ultimate. can she at least get her own weapons other than a mrs. iron man suit? and hawkeyes right, why isn't everyone furnished with an iron man suit? expensive they may be but they can make 6 or 7. but, i get why tony would be holding out on them though.

oh and the scarlet witch is useless, and a bit needy and creepily involved with quicksilver.

that's my rant.

i am going to form the ultimate masters of evil now. don't the ultimates have anyone to beat up on besides non powered humans and their own teammates? boooooooring.

don't get me wrong i like the book. i'm so into it obviously.

samuel l. nick fury needs to GO too. he's slimy.

I'm betting on Black Widow or Hawkeye but we'll have to see.

I'm looking forward to Ultimate Wonder Man though, which Millar hinted that we might see sometime this year...

ultimate wonder man. hmmm, he was kinda ultimate before. interesting to see what they do.

I read in a similar thread that the Thor of Norse myth derived his great strength from his enchanted belt.

I wonder (no pun intended) if they'll play up the "back from the dead" aspect to his origin. I just have a feeling...

i think that was just strength, or i may be confusing my norse with my marvel

Dang, I need to hit the CBS ASAP!

If stomach acid is so strong that it can eat through flesh, how does it stay in your stomach? Is this a chicken & egg thing?

i believe the working stomach is different than flesh. stomach acid and saliva can break beef and evn some bones like the stray fish bone or chicken bone.

any one else know more about how the stomach protects itself?

Dodging the question of the stomach (though I'm curious, too-- I *think* there're agents/bacteria present that keep the acids in check... but I'm not sure), I'll say that I admire this book more than I like it.

Hulk and Thor are the only characters that I like (though I sort of feel some sympathy for Hank Pym-- his ex gave as good as she got, IMO). I don't know if it's a failing, but there has to be at least one character that I out and out *like* in order for me to really enjoy a book.

I wish it was this Wanda-- or this Wasp-- or this Black Widow-- that went kerblooey and single-handedly disassembled a superteam.

I can't argue that it's a well-made product, though.

i guess i feel the same way mystery lad.

OK-- I *was* looking forward to the debut of the Ultimate Defenders... but in all the press, the reporters/interviewers and the creators seem to be going out of their way to put down the characters of VALKYRIE, NIGHTHAWK and HELLCAT.

Now I know some of the first volume DEFENDERS stories were a little... eccentric, but are those characters really held in that little regard?

I've been sort of surprised by that. Hellcat, or Patsy Walker, anyway-- I can kind of understand... she did get her start as a character in one of Marvel's romance comics, after all.

*I* like her and think that's a cool tidbit... but I can see the more 'cool' driven fanboys pooh-poohing her. But Val and Nighthawk? Why!?

Frankly, I almost don't want to read this series anymore!

I'm sure I'll get over it by the time the next issue comes out, though...

valkyrie is cool.

i wanna see her chop a few ultimates in half.

It's the "cool" fanboys who LIKE Valkyrie, Hellcat & Nightthawk.

But re: ULITMATES # 5...


NoooooOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooo!!!

The BASTARDS!!!!!! Thor's HAIR--- Thor's beautiful beautiful HAIR---!!! DAMN THEM ALL!!!!! DAMN THEM ALL TO HELL!!!!

I've never hated the Marvel-U Proper Loki like I DESPISE the Ultimate Loki.

Does Ultimate Scarlet Witch actually HAVE any powers? Have they ever been used on-panel anywhere?

And why did Quicksilver's snatching of the belt defeat Thor, if he really IS what he says he is?

Ultimate Natasha's a bit of a cuntessa, isn't she?

I concur about Thor's hair. Rarely do I like long hair on men, but it just worked for him. For that alone, Loki needs his butt kicked.

Mythologically-speaking, Thor's strength is greatly enhanced by his belt of strength. Presumably it requires extraordinary strength to wield the hammer.

Ah! Thanks for the tip, Ferro!

My boy Ultimate Thor put down! And Ultimate Cap didn't even get his faced mashed into little bits!

Lash, you know, I'm not sure if I've ever seen Ultimate Wanda ever use her powers on panel before. Also, knowing Millar's writing, I bet he keeps intentionally adding things to the stories that would suggest there is more to Pietro and her relationship than meets the eye, just to play with the fans.

Ultimate Natasha is a bit of a cuntessa. I have a feeling (I hope actually) that she's the traitor here. What's Tony see in her?

I think Iron Man and Thor are my favorites of this book by far. Todd, you actually summed it up perfectly for this comic--incredily well put together, but hard to really like anyone in it.

#6

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Ugh- the depiction of THE DEFENDERS was as awful as I thought it'd be... Sorry ULTIMATES fans, but I just despised this issue.

I could just imagine the *real* VALKYRIE swatting little miss Thorette on her, like, bare tushie with the broad side of Dragonfang... telling her to get her something to drink and cover up while she's at it.

I'll check back in with this title in trades, as by then, THE DEFENDERS will be a barely-remembered 'joke' for all the hipper-than-thou fans out there to giggle over (except they don't *giggle*, do they? Or even chuckle. No, the most they can manage is a 'unh'.)

The characters that matter are still sort of interesting-- and I'll be curious about them. But I ain't shelling out $$ for this. Not when I can wait and read the trade in the comfort of the back room at the bookstore I work at for free.

- These Defenders are obviously more of a break from their regular counterparts. If you're a fan of these characters, I can understand not liking this "reimagining" but still, it's not "really" them.
- I wish we could've seen more of "Power Man" and Son of Satan." I guess they probably don't have real powers either, but I hope there are a couple of good characters here rather than the entire team being a joke.
- I see this version of the Defenders, not as a comment on the characters themselves, but the concept of what the Defenders were - a kind of "loser" superteam (before the JLI) - and that's what we got. Who knows? Maybe Pym will help them out and make them a decent team (or maybe his Ultrons will kill them all...)
- Even guys at comic book conventions have better costumes than these guys (and why are most of them half naked?).

Best line of the book:
Quicksilver to Scarlet Witch, "Wanda, were you just flirting with that machine?! (The Vision II)"

I enjoyed the issue and the full-page newspaper shot of Pym had me laughing hysterically.

I too am a big fan of the eccentric 70s DEFENDERS issues, and Hellcat was probably my first favorite super-heroine.

Yes, I was a little disappointed by their treatment here, but I can't shake the feeling we haven't seen the last of them. I think they'll be back and be more badass.

dwelling on the Ultimate Defenders after a re-read...

The Marvel universe-proper Defenders....

Nighthawk: had a jetpack that allowed him to fly

Hellcat: had a gadgety costume that enhanced her natural atheleticism

With Pym's smarts & tech, the Ultimate versions of these characters could easily be enhanced.

Valkyrie's a different, more complicated matter... the Ultimate version DID show bravery when she confronted the punks and saved Nighthawk from being torched. We just need to give her some serious training in martial arts and swordplay.

Strap an exo-skeleton on Power Man's hot bod and have Son of Satan work up some spells or something, and you might have a team to reckon with.

Pym has the tech to get the ball rolling here. It would be stupid to intro an Ultimate Defenders just to have them be a 1-issue joke. Here's hoping Millar is planning to do someting with them OTHER than have them be cannon fodder for Ulti-Ultron.

The one thing that has me wondering is the statement that one of the Ultimates will 'face a horrifying change' (or somethng like that) soon.

My guess is that the Wasp will become MORE wasp-like with antennae, extra legs, and stinger, like she did waaaay back in Marvel Feature ca. 1972
Anyone else have an opinion/guess?

Now who could the traitor be? I don't think it's Cap simply because he doesn't seem to like Pym and wouldn't be palling around with him. Could it be Stark? Maybe having him drink coffee is meant to be ironic because he's usually drinking alcohol when he's with the Ultimates. It's less likely to be one of the peripheral characters because of Pym's "it kinda makes sense" statement (since we don't know much about the others). I dunno ... Quicksilver? The skin seemed too light to be Fury....

I dunno, but I'm tired of these Ultimates vs. their own members stories. Let's switch it UP, peeps!

I had the same feeling about Hank as far as making the Defends a real team. The only difference is that I would have Hank come up with an imperfect means of grant superhuman strength. I say 'imperfect' so that an explanation exists as to why only certain members (Valkyrie and Power Man) get the powers.

I do like the idea of Son of Satan getting magical powers since magic is almost absent from the UU.

I think it's Tony Stark. I don't understand the motivation, but I still think it's him. It sure dashed my hopes that it was Natasha. I don't see any real motivation for Quicksilver unless he's still anti-human.

Actially I think the Black Widow is TOO obvious a choice. Also, we know it's not Hank Pym or Captain America. Wasp is pretty much out of running as well.
That leaves several unaccounted for.
I believe I'll choose Hawkeye. In his regular Marvel universe, he always was the type to go against the crowd and stand up for what he believed in, much as this character is doing.

The gloves could work for Hawkeye but I don't see why the Wasp or Cap are necessarily out of the question. One of my leading choices had been Fury until I saw part of the traitor's hand.

Finally read this one too, and some thoughts on the traitor:

I hope it is Tony. And I will most definately be rooting for him. I hope it's Tony and Thor and Hank join him, and then I can have my own Ultimates that I like, and to hell with the rest

i hope it's tony too. and i'm still waiting for the valkyrie to chop somebody in half.

I think the horrifying change is more Ultimates vs. Ultimates. Believe Cap and Iron Man are going to join Thor. While Fury is going to control the rest of the group.

after the latest issue i think the traitor is...

captain A-hole

or fury. it's a man's hand holding the guns in the panels. and "soldier" being used. leeds me to suspect these two.

hmmm maybe it' loki going around shooting people but that is a wolf not quite in the fold.

Is there a heartbroken graemlin??? I want one for this thread...

...I'm serious. I'm effing heartbroken over the whole thing. I mean they akjdl;ajhdklakdjsakgjdfak his family and Jan's a jdkaljdlka idiot and Hank's a right ajkeljdajsk. jakldhaf;lkdjfklahakljdflk;ahj GAH!!!!!!!! ><

*cries*

It's a good thing for Hawkeye fans that he was just brought back in "House of M"...

*hysterical sobbing*

ajlajskd;akdjaksjha;ljashaldjakhdlajglhdklajs

WAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Speaking of Ultimate Defenders? Ya know I am glad they made them a joke. Why? Cause when Larsen and Busiek launched them years ago...they were a joke. I was expecting a cool dark Grant Morrisson type series...cause honestly the Defenders lend themselves to that...i think they've all gone to hell or were born in hell at some point.

But they became a joke. Know Giffen and crew are continuing the joke...but atleast they are good at it.

Ultimate Defenders were kinda cool. I mean...i was ready to bang Ultimate Valkyrie myself. Go Pym! lol

I know the Ultimate Universe is supposed to be darker and grittier, but good lord that last issue was a little extreme. Did we really need to see Hawkeye getting covered in blood as his son is murdered in front of him? I tell ya, if it wasn't for the art, I really don't know if I would still be buying this.

Didn't it look like Hawkeye was about to get killed, too? If he survives, maybe this will serve as some sort of motivating factor to become truly heroic.

i say kill em all !!!!


except the hottie thor.

Sorry, but Cap's a hottie, too. Plus, he's awesome.

i think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one....


<<besides he's the traitor...we'll that would actually earn him points in my book with this crew>>

what's so awesome about him?

I think Jan points out all the reasons Ulti-Cap ISN'T such a hottie after all. Ulti-Hank is WAY hotter.

Whoever the traitor is... needs to die a horrible, miserable, bloody death. Why go after Hawkeye's entire family like that? Horrid.

"Now you're just being stupid, soldier". Maybe the traitor IS Cap. That sounded a lot like him. Or Tony. Damn, I dunno. I am VERY cuious to see if Hawkeye survives this somehow. It doesn't look likely, though.

Scarlet Witch DOES have powers. Kewl!

I read ULTIMATES 2 ANNUAL # 1.

Very well-written. Color me curious about all these new characters introduced.

Plus the Ultimate DEFENDERS make a return appearance and we learn there's more to Son of Satan than we originally were allowed to believe!

oooooo i read it too. fury is a bad bad man.

i can't help but hope er...i mean think the new iron men and giant men, four seasons are all cannon fodder soon to be dead....

yet more dissention among the ultimates

I read # 8.

So. Cap as bad guy.

Something else else's going on here.

I guessed right!! I guessed right!! Wooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Except the part where Cap is a bad, bad man. That's not so much the woo.

P.S. WHY IS HAWKEYE DEAD??? I HATE THE WORLD!!!! ><

I'm convinced its Fury that's the bad guy. He got what he wanted out of the Ultimates and gained the public's support. Now they've outlived their usefulness--Thor, Hank, Clint, (kinda Jan) and now Cap. I bet Natasha is in on it too. Loki fitting in too...?

Great, great issue though. The Ultimates is excellent, and I keep forgetting about how good it is until I read it.

I think it's Loki twisting things around. I dont think Cap's the traitor -- he just doesn't seem that ambitious to me. Too bad that yet again, this book is about them taking down their own members. What's that all about? What's Millar trying to say here?

That's really all the Ultimates have been about, isn't it? Hmm. Do I smell a rut?

I don't think Cap's a traitor, either. I'm also not entirely convinced Hawkeye is dead. Otherwise, why would his body be missing? I'm thinking he's off recovering and biding his time before he kicks Fury's butt for murdering his family. I think if Ultimates Annual #1 didn't point the figure straight at Fury (who was, you'll notice, already planning to replace Cap - and this was before the video of the Hawkeye family was seen), I don't know what else would. The only possible redemption for Fury would be if he were under some sort of mind control.

As for why certain team members are be taken out? They're the ones that are least malleable and most likely to rebel against whatever plans Fury and/or Loki have.

ok after reading the latest issue i do not think that cap's a traitor. but he is a crybaby

loki could definately be screwing things up.

unrelated: the hulk is still missing too.

who's left to go to natasha and tony's wedding? i sense a dynasty style bruhahaha coming on next issue.

maybe the good ulti's will join together to beat fury.

The Hulk isn't missing so much as hiding. And it sounds like he's not a psycho this time around since he's helped people. Maybe he'll turn up and save the day. Heck, for all we know the traitor tampered with the Hulk serum and caused him to act so badly.

I'm sticking with the Black Widow man. I know it sounds obvious...but only she has the stones.

numero 9! spoilers!!!!!


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kicked butt, and there were actually some heroics by some ultimates versus someone other than their teammates.

ARGH! I just read this over lunch! And amidst all the explosions and action, all I can think is... Jarvis? Jarvis?! JAAAAARVIS!?!?

Those giant men got hammered -- and I thought Atom Girl had a violent attack style...!

I read it! New Avengers who? Man, I never thought I would like this title but I do. I always thought the proper Avengers needed a shake-up...a bit of modernatization...but I hated New Avengers. Ultimates I adore.

I was literally scared when Loki & co. attacked. The last page scared me. These guys are villains. America's enemies indeed. No political correctness here! You know in every WWIII scenario I've read the Russians do team up with China...scary scenario. Anyways, it rocked. Hawkeye isn't dead! Sadly his entire family is which I can only guess will make him really mad...and sadly probably more interesting. Yes...it's sad. I always guessed the traitor was the Widow. heck I think I guessed her as traitor before we knew there was a traitor.

I can't say enough about this title. The art rocked. Well worth the wait. Also I think Millar was trying to say something with the Ultimate reserves teams. You can have an army of Giant-Men, of Super Soldiers, of Iron Men...still not the same thing. Can't wait to see the Ultimates become Avengers! Cap, Tony, Thor, Hawkeye are going to whip some serious butt.

Certainly and 'OMG' issue. i'm with don jorge - i can't what for the avenging! oh and we see Fury is less limbered, but did wanda 'pop' and Quicksilver get fried? And what was Wasp doing...?

Also like the political comments made by Millar. This was a pre-emptive strike against the USA. And the way Millar wrote it they deserved it. SHIELD has been playing dirty pool for some time now with whole Super Soldiers programs...sneaking into other countries, etc.

In the end Cap is going to be the hero and Millar didn't make it obviously anti-American much...but it was. I wonder if Captain Britain is going to show up?! I love CB personally. Always loved he wasn't perfect like CA. This is good stuff.

See, I thought it was rather predictable. And, well, kind of dumb. I mean, the Russian?? Geez, what decade are we in???? Though, I did like her reasons (which they've alluded to on more than one occassion).

That said, I still admit to loving a lot of this issue. Including but not limited to Loki finally admitting to Asgard and watching the team get owned. Oh yeah, good times. Oh, and Hawkeye still being alive!! w00t!!!!!

Caliente, regarding Russians. The Cold War is over but as I said if WWIII started tommorrow no one knows if Russia will go with the east or west.

Eh, I'm not convinced.

I do like that she wasn't doing it for Mother Russia or whatever, though. At least, not directly.

Scary issue, for certain.

Loki looked so delciously evil and hot!

Heh. It was nice to see Thor vindicated. Guess it wasn't all in his head! I wonder if Banner will be back to help out his erstwhile teammates...

Stu, I forgot about him. Yeah I am sure he will be. I am getting giddy thinking about a pissed off Thor, Cap, Tony, and Hulk...Ultimates style. scary.

what has the wasp been doing? do we really care...maybe she'll bust out the other ultimates.

i only actually like wanda, pietro, and thor everyone else i'm kinda NOT rooting for.

but i love the book!

Good question where is the Wasp? Would be cool to see her take out Black Widow!

I'm pretty sure I saw her get owned over the course of the last issue. Can't quite remember, though... Must remember to reread.

hey what did y'all think of this issue.


spoilers!!!!


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the wasp is still pretty lame. firing fingernails...come on. but it was good to see tony stark as kick nass.

Well, at least we know where Jan was now. Tony is still the man!! w00t~ Nice to see his genius at work. All hail HAWKEYE!!!!!!!!!!

Side note: I didn't realize Bobbi died in 616 too...

Yeah the Wasp was lame! Cmon I was expecting her to kick butt! Anyways besides that it was a great issue! Loved the Tony and Hawkeye taking charge scenes!

Next issue I guess we see Cap, Thor and the rest kick some serious butt!

Oh and I am guessing Pym's robots will betray the bad guys. I love how Millar has written Pym!

hmmm that would be funny if cap didnt free thor? cause he still thought he was a traitor.
they'd have to find his gear though too.
i hope the mass devastion the liberators did isnt wiped up in one issue.

i like the liberators alot but i wish they were all reimagined characters instead of new ones. (swarm and hurricane are new right?)

so..tony has cancer? i never liked natasha..

the wasp is a computer genius supposedly maybe she shoulda released cap and thor from her laptop! im just bitter because i luvvv janet van dyne.

im a bit worried about an army of ultrons..they are probably non adamantium models.
next issue should be really good!!

cliente whos bobbi?

Bobbi's Clint's wife. Was Clint's wife. In Ultimates. I don't know what, exactly, her role was in 616 but there was a mention of her in She-Hulk saying that she'd died so... There we are!

bobbi as in mockingbird. cool!

Mockingbird's in <i>X-Statix: Dead Girl</i>, lusting after Dr Strange.

im really behind on my comics...guess i dont read enough of them anymore.

Latest issue of Ultimates was awesome! Great scenes with Tony and Clint...looking forward to everyone else shining.

There's not much I can say other than that this is a very solid, excellent comic people should be reading.

*gasp* You just sold that series to me.

Nope.

There were parts of this issue I liked, and there were parts that had the cynic in me wondering if the cynic in Millar is just pandering testosterone moments to fanboys.

Tony Stark is still the coolest cat - and I don't know when was the last time Hawkeye was shown as such a threat (it was a bit "Bullseye-like", but still ...)

Wasp had a nice moment, but really should've been able to do more damage than simply setting Cap free.

I'm not familiar with 616 Hurricane. I've heard of a "Swarm", but this one is quite different.

anyone have any spoilers for the ultimates?

Anyone seen the article in WIZARD #178 about the upcoming Ultimates 4 with character sketches from the Superman/Batman team of Jeph Loeb and Ed McGinness.In fact there's even a "leaked" sketch of the Ultimate Spider-Woman but her costume looks more like Black Widow!

Yeah, I heard the news, but assumng Ultimates 4 follows Ultimates 3, and that Ultimates 3 is a full twelve or thirteen issues like the first two series (and remembering the full year between the last two issues of Battle Chasers), I can't even imagine when we'd eventually see this. It's like getting excited right now for the 2014 World Cup.

I think they should have started both artists now, but put McGuiness on 3 and Joe Mad on 4.

If you'll recall the many delays of S/B, that way round wouldn't be any better.

Anyway, there's at least another three or so months before U**2** is finished, and there'll be a break before U3 #1 on top of that. So Maduriera's got at least a year's head start on his first issue, maybe more...

So,what's your opinion of the Ultimate Spider-Woman costume and should Bendis use her in any upcoming Ultimate Spiderman storyline?

Here's my list

ULTIMATE HEROES:
Ghost Rider
Photon
Cloak & Dagger
Quasar
Miss America(1940s heroine)
Speedball
Jubilee

ULTIMATE TEAMS:
Imperial Guard
Alpha Flight
New Warriors
Power Pack

While I'm at it,anyone remember the Ultimate version of Savage Land,should the Savage Land races be present in Ultimate U.? If they are, some should have animal characteristics and features;these are the Tree People and the Zebra people!

ok i must be the only one reading this.

love the action and the art but i think the current storyline was wrapped up way to quick, unbelievable.

It would've been nice if it has come out every four weeks, but I think the pacing has been pretty good. Things aren't totally wrapped up though - we still have some god on god violence coming up!

This book has been fairly subversive in its depiction of the U.S. and the power we wield. I thought it was interesting how several of the enemy combatants begged for mercy before meeting a horrible end. Whatsisname emploring to a non-responsive Captain America to at least understand their motivation was an interesting statement.

Quicksilver's quick disbatching of his enemy was ruthless, but very much in the spirit of Pietro (all versions).

I thought this was great, but the long waits in between killed all the momentum for me. But it was still very well written and fun. I'd say Vol. 2 is actually better than Vol. 1.

Ultimates v3 #1 cover (SPOILERS)


Pic taken from IGN.

Wow. I love the art! I love the new additions of Valkyrie and Black Panther! Love the new costumes for Hawkeye and Scarlet Witch. But I really love Hawkeye!

I hate the New Avengers additions of Wolverine and Spider-Man.

Ultimates proved that the classic Avengers were cool and didn't need Wolverine/Spidey/Bendis to sell. Infact the Ultimates probably would outsell New Avengers if they came out on time.

I also like the possible new Giant-Man. I always wanted Pym's costumes to be inherited by young characters.

Well, I definitely don't see myself buying this.

One of the biggest draws before was the Hitch art. Without that, and with the additions of Spidey and Wolvie, I just can't see myself buying it. Wolverine is a big part of why I dropped New Avengers.

Oh well... less money I have to spend

Wait... hasn't Wolverine gone back to his original Ultimate costume in UltXM?

I think this may end up being one of those "wow, I can't believe Marvel actually found a way to screw that up!".

I enjoy the art but don't love it yet, though all I really know Joe Mad from is Battle Chasers. Can't say I'm looking forwad to Loeb's writing, but he's surprised me before.

I probably will end up getting this, but easily might not, depending on how many comics I add/drop in the coming months. I am dropping/not adding quite a bit from both Marvel and DC these days though, so maybe I'll at least check it out.

Joe Mad!... And you Ultimates fans thought Hitch couldn't keep a deadline! :rolleyes:

I'm just glad he's not drawing anything I read... After the way he left us hanging with BATTLECHASERS, he's not getting my $$!

I liked Mad at first when i saw him on "X-Men", but he quickly got too out of control for my tastes. The preview art above is ok, and I'm not thrilled with Spidey and Wolverine either, but I think I'll wait to see what the story's about.

Wasn't there a Valkyrie who was a member of the Defenders? Powerless? I hope they can explain her presence.

Just be glad they didn't add Spider-Woman or She-Hulk to this mix!

Or Echo.

Eh. I was totally into V1 but not as into V2. I *might* check out V3 # 1.... or might not.

Yes, well there appears to be a "serious" Hellcat on an upcoming USM cover too. So they're taking to ignoring that group.

http://www.zonanegativa.com/?p=3136

That spanish sites gets more stuff than all the sites i visit here in the USA. They have all the Ultimate Spider-Woman pic (ugh) and the entire page (instead of a panel) of the new mysterious Spidey artist.

Scanned from Wizard

1) Nicked from Newsarama
2) "The"? The panels are by Bachalo, the page is by Larroca, and given that it's 36 issues a year, I'm expecting no less than four artists, and probably six.

Second cover:

US users: http://media.comics.ign.com/media/740/740876/img_4742079.html
UK users (above link won't work... trust me, I know): http://uk.media.comics.ign.com/media/740/740876/img_4742079.html

Combined covers:

US users: http://media.comics.ign.com/media/740/740876/img_4742076.html
UK users: http://uk.media.comics.ign.com/media/740/740876/img_4742076.html

Oh, i don't think i am going to like this at all.

Ditto.

Down to UFF and USM, and the former ain't exactly knocking it out of the ballpark for me these days...

It's Loeb. It's the people who'll LIKE it I'm worried about...

So, U3 is here, complete with Mad art that reminds me of the time I ditched the entire X-Verse and Spider-Man and Wolverine on the cover, reminding me of the time I ditched the Avengers-verse (except for Slott's current A:tI).

That can't bode well.

Thor and Wasp especially seem to suffer under the new artist. I *LOVED* Hitch's rendition of them. The confirmation of an oddball Pietro/Wanda relationship kinda grosses me out.

Is this the teenage Valkyrie from the "Ultimate Defenders" who appeared in U2, now powered up? That interests me.

I'm on "Wait and See" mode here with U3. If it gets sucky I won't hesitate to drop it.

You seem to be in the minority when saying the story's not "sucky" already.

Of about one.

It's the worst-reviewed comic I've seen since Civil War: The Return, and even that was slightly apathetic in its' unanimity (That said, Wolverine #50-55 by the same author would probably match it if I'd seen more reviews...)

would have been better if valkyrie had chopped off her head.

the art is messy and i think we need a plot recep of where we are after U2. seems like alot has changed...and ive been reading soem of te other ultimate titles!

but i like the wasp being more aggressive except for her lame *ss line about how she used to have an eating disorder. beeeeeeeeeeen dooooooooone.
oh, every foxy woman needs a backstory of an eating disorder???

bmw - check, bling - check, prior eating disorder - check.

the writer should watch less trashy teen drama tv.

Yeah it's a wierd combination for me. I like it the same way I like an action film. It's pretty, it's exciting but it's certainly missing some brains. DB, nailed with the trashy teen drama tv dialogue on some word balloons. Wasp and Valkyrie sound like stupid sluts.

I guess I don't mind the way they look. It still has me interested though. It's a far cry from Millar/Hitch.

Indeed a far cry from Millar/Hitch. Feels like reading a typical Marvel comic from 1995 now (NOT a compliment).

The only thing keeping me hanging on is the Valkyrie. What's her deal? I'll hang with it a minute more, for now.

Dropped it after #1. Felt like everything I hated about comics in the mid-90's.

If the Ultimate U has it's version of the Superhuman Registration Act,would be known by a different name?

The Ultimate Superhuman Registration Act?

Okay, so I've read 1-4. I need advice.

On the one hand, it still reminds me of a crappy Marvel-circa 1995 comic and is NOwhere NEAR the kewlness of the first two runs. And the Wanda/Pietro insinuations continue to gross me out.

On the other hand, it features the characters (well, the ULTI-verse version of same) that I really want to see in AVENGERS (excepting Wolverine) and the Valkyrie thing keeps me intrigued #4 SPOILER: (it is now obvious from #4 that she IS the former Defender from the previous ULTIMATES run). Plus I'm wondering about Wanda's real fate.

Is ANYone still reading? I thought Mystery Lad might be, because of the whole Valkyrie thing...

Dropped it after #1. Probably the worst transition to a new creative team in recent memory.

I find it so awful that the addition of even the Panther and Valkrye couldn't sway me. The worst Loeb's offered possibly ever.

PS - At this point I've dropped all Ultimate books but Spidey. And Bendis recently announced a 'new direction' for the book after this Ultimatum crossover stuff. If that means less Peter Parker stuff and more super-hero/Ultimates stuff, then I think I may be done with the Ultimate Universe permanantly. Apparently, I'll just be one among a great many too (gee, I guess all that internet uproar a few years ago was for naught?).

The Ultimate Valkyrie's debut pretty much offended me-- haven't had any interest in her since. Is there something there I should backtrack and check out?

The reviews of the rest of the book don't seem to support that.

Well, Ulti-Valkyrie is a member of the ULTIMATES with vol. 3 issue 1, and one gets the impression that she might be the former member of the "Defenders" that debuted in the previous run, despite now having a different costume, superpowers and a winged horse. She and Thor are apparently an item.

With # 4, it is made very clear that she IS the former Defender, when Mastermind uses his powers to put her into a "private hell" which depicts her in her former Defenders costume holed up in her apartment while her Landlord bangs on the door demanding rent. All the while, she is begging Thor to come rescue her, again.

So yeah, this definitely piqued my curiosity. When and how did she and Thor hook up and where did her Valkyrie powers come from?

I guess that's not enough interesting stuff for most people to continue to read a series, but I have reaLLLLLy missed the Valkyrie character. Because of her, I've decided to remain in for now.

The Ultimate universe relaunches in September—a move very cleverly timed by Marvel so readers checking out the DCnU have several new #1 choices by Marvel on the shelves. In addition to Bendis’ relaunch of USM with a half black, half-Hispanic Spider-Man (which is drawing all the media attention), the UU is also being relaunched by two of my favorite new writers in comics, Jonathan Hickman and Nick Spencer. I really like both of what these guys have been doing with their creator-owned work and work for hire stuff, but the big question I have is: do I really want to start collecting a new segment of the Big 2? I’m investing heavily in creator-owned stuff that I’m finding much more rewarding, and I’m surprisingly buying much more of DC than I thought I would because so much of the relaunch has been impressive so far. Do I really need Ultimate universe titles, after giving up on that universe years earlier?

I picked up the two Hickman titles, Ultimates and Ultimate Hawkeye to give them a shot. Both of them are well-written, interesting stories that are certainly different than what’s come before; there is no ‘by the numbers’ criticism here. The artwork on Ultimate Hawkeye by Rafa Sandoval (penciler) and Jordi Tarragona is exciting and engaging; meanwhile the artwork on Ultimates by Esad Ribic is a little boring for my tastes; it feels a little like Stuart Immonen-lite. But both issues were adequate art-wise.

Yet, at the end of the day, after reading them both, I found myself realizing that I just don’t care that much about the Ultimate Universe. I really don’t have any curiosity over what is going to happen to the Ultimate versions of the Marvel characters anymore. Part of that is Jeph Loeb and other’s fault for filtering the excitement out of the universe over the years. But also, part of that is the current creators fault for not giving me that “Oh wow, I’ve got to buy this!” moment in these titles. There is simply too many *great* comic books out there for me to focus on instead.

At the end of the day, the UU will always be “not the real ___” for me. In order to be on my pull list, they have to be better than the average comic book I might buy. These were good, but I don’t think I’m going forward. I love Hickman’s stuff but I’ll enjoy it elsewhere. (I do plan to at least sample Spencer’s Ultimate X-Men though).