You know, for kind of being the red-headed step-child of the Arrowverse, Legends has evolved into what I feel has become the funnest, most entertaining and most inventive of the increasingly otherwise dour Arrowverse shows.

I mean, you can watch an average episode and check off a lot of things about the show has going against it: pretty terrible CGI, cheesy B-movie plots and villains, spotty acting, the heroes rarely use their super-powers, and so on and so on and so on.

But, damn, if every episode of the past couple of seasons hasn't been an absolute hoot to watch! There are LOL moments every hour and just a fun, "anything goes" kind of vibe to it.

It was a show that struggled to find its identity its first couple of season. Then, things started to click in season 3 as the show began to find its madcap identity. The recently-finished season 4 solidified this tone and absolutely nailed it, while still peppering in moments of true feeling and loss.

I really like what LoT has grown into, and I hope it keeps on this course. The Arrowverse really needs this show to be what it is now, and I hope some of you will either give it a chance or share your thoughts about it if you've been watching. I see it as representing what comics were to me as a kid and what I often wish they would be more often: fun, imaginative and wildly entertaining!

I think the writer's room is the beneficiary of low expectations. With third-string DC characters that no other writers want to play with, and an audience of fewer than a million viewers per episode, Corporate tends to ignore them.
So they can do wacky, bizarre (for several episodes, the Big Bad was a Fairy Godmother!) funny and outrageous stunts that other shows couldn't get away with. That kind of writing will be uneven, but some of it priceless.

Yes, I'm sure it can be very freeing to the creative crew of the show to not be the flag-bearers of the Arrowverse. I love that they finally figured this out and just decided to double-down on what they do best.

Beyond that, the cast has developed a chemistry among them that really rivals the other shows. And adding Matt Ryan's Constantine has only added to that. While he's still the same character as he was on his mostly-serious cancelled show, he fits in flawlessly with the more free-wheeling Lot.

One thing they couldn't do on any of the other shows is some of the goofy stuff they've done with Gary, the fanboy agent of the Time Bureau. I mean...

I also loved that they used Thomas F. Wilson (Back to the Future's Biff) in an extended guest-starring role as Hank's father--in a show about time-travel, no less! Lots of fan service, there, and with some goofy and touching twists, as well.

News in the past day, though, of the characters (and actors) of Ray and Nora leaving the show this upcoming season. Though Ray is a bit played out, I'll miss his particular boy scout dynamic in the team. I'll particularly miss Nora. I think she has a lot of story left in her, and I personally find the actress really captivating in the role.

It seems to have taken a bit of a silly edge to me. I liked the first couple of seasons when It was rougher. These last few haven't been bad, don't get me wrong, but the first couple seemed to have better through lines. I know some were down on the use/handling of Savage, but I thought it was good compared to The Crie....ummm, flash.

But, I'd like a bit rougher character to replace Ray and Nora.

I've actually liked it less and less with each season. The original premise of assorted characters from the other Arrowverse shows banding together as a ragtag band of time travellers was kind of cool, but with each season the emphasis seems to be more and more on original characters, and combine that with the fact that they barely use their costumes or powers, it doesn't even feel like a DC Comics show much of the time. And while the attempt to blend time travel and magic over the past couple of seasons is an interesting idea, it just hasn't really worked for me.

That's interesting. When I started this thread, I imagined that if you were still watching the show and would respond to this thread that I'd anticipated LoT would be right up your alley where it is now. I mean, in a way it seems like the cheesy fun kind of stuff that you and Lash would be all for. In a way it's like an LMB TV show practically fully realized, even with some of our archetypes represented. I mean, everything they did with Gary's nipple alone....

I dunno, the plot and premise, for me, has been secondary to the character interaction and the zany fun. LoT in its first couple of seasons had its merits (loved me some Martin Stein!), but it wasn't all that distinguishable from the other Arrowverse shows in its tone and its structure. Now, it's clearly its own thing, and it's my cup of tea.

Yeah, I know it seems like something I would like, which maybe is what makes it even more frustrating that I don't enjoy it.

I don't know. I just find all of the Arrowverse shows frustrating to various degrees.

I'm really digging the not-quite-Arrowverse Black Lightning, though.

I LIKE the silliness, Rick!

I guess, though, that I wouldn't mind if they ease up on the silly somewhat and balance it out more if the storyline is good enough. When I say "good enough", Supergirl, Arrow and especially Flash have kind of burned me out with their season-long arcs and the repetitiveness and same-i-ness of them.

Flash particularly seemed to be reaching using Cicada as their season-long villain. They had to add a twist with a second Cicada and mix in the much more interesting Reverse Flash to pad that season. I wouldn't want Legends to be more like that again. While they also have season-long arcs, their episode count is 6 or 7 below the others, and the higher comedy/fun elements don't make me dwell on how good or not good the overall arc is.

(For the record, I think Arrow had a bit of a comeback season, and that was largely due to it having two arcs instead of one, plus a fairly interesting flash-forward story. Supergirl, I'm still catching up with, but it has a timely immigration theme that's working and about three or four separate-but-mostly-related threats percolating throughout, including the welcome addition of Lex Luthor.)

Like I said, I'm gonna miss Nora more than Ray, but it would appear that maybe they get to leave as a couple. So that's kinda nice. I'd rather nate/Steel leave personally. Just don't care for the guy's acting--hard to explain, but he seems more like a guy suited for commercials or making radio announcements?-- but the storyline using Biff as his dad was the best thing the show's ever done with him.

Love the power couple of Sara and Ava. Love Zari and how she's emerged this season. Love the geek appeal of Gary and Mona. Enjoying the show re-purposing the Vixen actress as Charlie. Mick is still kinda one-note, but the romance author stuff they've done with him is lots of fun!

And I really love Matt Ryan as Constantine! Obviously, I was a fan of his short-lived show on CBS, but he adds so much personality! Plus, he ironically uses his powers more than all of the others combined!

With me, that's part of it. Combine the silly with a whole buncha talk and not much doing at times and it's .... slight... to me. I was really digging the idea. Elevating some lesser known DC characters to more prominence, showing off their catalog with a lot of really interesting b and c listers and having a really cool show. But as much as I could like a silly show if it was like Giffen and DeMatiss' League, the humor is not slapstick enough to really make me laugh, but too much to make it really fun. I don't ever get an impending sense of doom or danger from it. Just...silly fun. Which is okay on occasion, but not all the time, for my tastes. Glad you are really enjoying it, though, Anthony.