Anyone going so's we know what's said?

Not I. I'm really surprised they are doing one at Baltimore when the whole creative staff (Barry, Mark, Wacker and possibly Levitz) will be at Dallas in November. I was hoping we'd get a Legion panel there.

Do we have any posters from the Baltimore area? I can't think of any off-hand.

I made it there today.

I'm sure this'll all end up better written at Newsarama or CBR or somewhere, but here are some of what I figured were the crucial bits:

SPOILERS
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It's a reboot. Mark Waid used the word himself. There's an in-continuity explanation (so in that respect it will be unlike the current Doom Patrol) and I believe it was stated they weren't erasing the previous stories as such, but it's a reboot.

There won't be an origin story initially. The first ish will reintro the cast of about "18 or so" members.

The Boy-Girl-Lad-Lass-Kid codenames are back in a big way. It may well be possible to guess the full lineup based on who has/has had those sort of names.

Not sure how much more I want to mention, as there were some major reveals. Waid spoke rather passionately, and took several opportunities to praise Barry Kitson's work on the series. I didn't hear anything that would put me off buying the new book.

Yay! This sounds really promising!

I hope they *do* re-intro some reboot characters with groovy Silver Age names though!

Spill ALL the beans, Miner! We can take it!

Jeepers! Could this mean-- the return of MATTER-EATER LAD?!?! He had a "Lad" name! Jillikers! This will render MEL:TS continuity totally inert!

Bye Legion.

Jeepers, Reboot! Stick around, it'll be a blast! This "reboot" stuff is all old-hat to us preboot fans!

I said I wouldn't buy it if there were any major continuity changes, and I won't. I'm not going to reward them with my cash for f***ing everything up.

But... you were doing that by buying the entire postboot series...

Jillikers! The old stories happened! Enjoy the new ones!

Preboot was before my time, ergo I-don't-give-a-damn. If I'd been buying the stuff in 1994, I would have dropped it then and never gone back.

"Lad," "Lass," all this crap holds no nostalgia for me. To me, the Legion ended with The Legion #33.

Well, I cant wait for Waid and Kitson to hit me with their best shot!!! I'm WAY excited!

So the Murdermabob and flying worm swarm thingies are temporarily retconned out... maybe they'll be back some day!

Maybe, and I won't be there to see it. I don't care about redoing old stories in a new continuity. It's not the same continuity, ergo I get a "doesn't matter" note from my doctor.

*cough* PM *cough*

me tooo!!!!!!!!!

Irony, anyone?

Phantom Girl.

Praise the comics gods.

I'm gonna go to bed happy tonight.

I'm gonna say something shocking.

Good stories beat continuity for me. Every time, without hesitation.

True continuity, from a characterization as well as a plot standpoint, is impossible if you don't have the same writer on the book during the whole run. We wouldn't even be talking about "continuity" as such a sacred cow if Claremont hadn't been on the X-Men for 18 years.

If a reboot means that I never have to think about the horrors heaped on the LSH during the "Archie Legion" days, so much the better.

Life is change. Either we adapt or we perish. Would we rather see the LSH adapt, or would we rather see it perish? Cause that's the decision here, like it or not.

Sigh. Sounds like Waid's going to wave his Hypertime wand.

Maybe Dan Abnett had the right attitude in this recent interview.

"To have built it up again so successfully only to see someone come in and press reset is a little bit of a shame. On the plus side, we won’t ever have to watch someone f*cking up our Legion."

A few more spoilers from Curly Jo over at the DCMB:

-- Colossal Boy will return. He's from a race of giants but can shrink himself down to 6 feet. His own people call him "Micro Lad"
-- Shrinking Violet's official codename is Atom Girl, but no one calls her that.
-- M'onel isn't in it "yet".
-- The three founders are still the three founders. (thank gods for that)

You can read Curly Jo's original post HERE.

Agreed. And SHADOW LASS!

"Micro Lad". Heh! I like! GIM's back, YEAH!

Violet will always be Violet to me, no matter what crappy code-name they give her!

Hmm... the "Micro Lad" thing *does* sound a bit weird. Are we sure it wasn't a joke?

But maybe it'll let them *finally* do something interesting with Gim!

Though if Gim is from an other-dimensional race who's children like to play with puppets on planetoids in our dimension, I'm all for it!

That Vi tidbit is interesting. Glad to hear she won't go by it and probably opt for Shrinking Violet or just 'Vi'. Is this a sign (as would be the cover if that's really her in the indigo square) that we're getting a more-outgoing Imskian gal than a shy one?

Glad to hear Gim back...the reimagined origin sounds interesting, but I'm not sure if I'll still feel that way once I see it. Praise the world the founders stayed put.

I know we have the "18 or so" member mention from before, but am I right in assuming that's how many will get official feature initially and that there are more members in the wings?

I really feel bad for DnA's run now. It WAS good...it just lost steam at the end. It's kind of sad to just see it left at that, even that as Abnett says we don't have to worry about the storylines getting more convulted.

My only main upset about the reboot is that we were at first promised it wouldn't be. I was so braced for a DnA continuation I'm kind of sad that we'll be given otherwise. There was nothing wrong with our current group that couldn't be fixed.

That's what we need. Trelane Boy.

My opinion is that DnA did as good a job trying to fix the mess that *was* the reboot as could possibly be hoped for. It just couldn't be done.

I think we can now safely include these characters on the initial roster:

Brainiac 5 (is he exempt from the boy/girl/lad/lass rule?)
Cosmic Boy
Lightning Lad
Saturn Girl
Colossal Boy
Shrinking Violet (Atom Girl)
Ultra Boy
Chameleon Boy (based on teaser image)
Element Lad

That's about half the crew. The rest are subject to your interpretation of the cover image. I'd say Lu (Triplicate Girl?), Phantom Girl and Dream Girl are pretty good bets.

Whoops. I come over here to post, only to find that my post has beaten me here!

I'm trying to be optimistic. They were all so enthusiastic about it, and the ideas sound good, even if they're not the Legion I'm used to. And as long as Violet is there, I'm happy.

On a sorta related note, I picked up a TON of back issues today. Over a hundred back issues from at least four different Legion series. Watch my head go splodey from all the different continuity.

I should just be getting a handle on things by the time they change again in December.

Thanks again, Curly. I didn't realize you were a member here.

Brilliant! If this ISN'T Waid's plan, it should be.

Ugh! My cautious optimism has now become nervous pessimism. So we just go back to the beginning and start all over. I just don't see how this can be a good thing. I am really feeling it for DnA right now.

At least Waid's doing this in continuity. The Doom Patrol thing was a pretty confusing thing to do, and I know I won't ever touch that book now. Call me a continuity geek, but if they had just made a simple explanation in JLA or Titans or anywhere why the Doom Patrol was around again, I would probably be collecting the series.

Tromium--

It's no biggie. I don't come here as much as I'd like, so by the time I remembered to post here, here it was!

Saved me the trouble really.

Throwing out continuity in order to tell a "good story" is just laziness on the part of writers. It's all about ego in the end.

This makes me happy.

It's a shame to get rid of postboot continuity as well as DnA's changes. The Titanet, Thresholds (we may need a redesign for the homepage...) *LEGION WORLD* itself, etc... these were great ideas that still had lots of story potential. I mean, we had just gotten to the point of having cadets and everything's getting tossed aside? I hope Waid doesn't jettison everything that's been built up. I also pray we don't get another retelling of preboot stuff that was retold for the postboot just to get us to where we are now, but with Waid's continuity.

Curly, do you mind if I use your report on the panel on my website?

Sure, go right ahead.

Thanks CurlyJo!

Glad to hear we're not getting an origin story for the first issue. That's one thing I would really like to see re-imagined, when they get to it, because I'm sick to death of the Legion origin story. (Does someone have a count of how many times it's been told? Probably fewer than I imagine.)

There's certainly enough to captivate my interest - and it's really not clear to me exactly what role the Legion will be playing in that 31st century would-be utopia.

I'd agree with KP that a good story beats continuity - or my own conceptions of what the Legion should be and who should be members. If they "screw up" my favourite character (already I don't like the Vril Dox look), I'll just adopt another favourite.

Well I always thought that the next reboot should have started well within the status quo like Waid is doing instead of going thru all the early stuff again.

The legion exists we have 18 members they've been around for a few years. They've already fought all the big villains atleast once, etc.

Jorge

OhMyGod!!! That orgasmic scream of delight you all heard was ME!!! GIM'S BACK!!! YES! YES! YES! Oh, Thank-you Lord! Those chickens weren't sacrificed in vain!

And he's from a race of giants now? Kooky but I really like it! Its an idea that I've always toyed around with in my head for Gim anyway so I approve. JUST DON'T FRIGGIN' KILL HIM THIS TIME!

As for the rest of the news... its all a LOT more drastic than I was expecting but I don't mind - I think it all sounds really exciting.

* Love the code-name revert.
* Love the fact that the team will be more clique-like - AT LAST, SOME CHARACTERISATION! Take note DnA!
* Love the fact that M'Onel (or will it be Mon-el, hmmmmm?) won't be on the team yet. The best thing about the early reboot was the exciting wait to see how favourite characters would be re-introduced.

All in all I think we're in good hands. Mark Waid can be a very good writer at times, he loves the characters and the book is going to be 40 pages long (I think)! Lots of reasons to be optimistic IMO.

As for DnA's comment that "at least they wouldn't see someone fuck up their Legion" - outrageous! They did a perfectly good job of doing that themselves! Good riddance!

Micro Lad??I can live with it but if Mon doesn't show up Waid's on my list of writers to kill.The top one is Bendis.

Mon will be back. Just give him time.

Yes, just the fact Waid mentioned Mon at all assures me that he'll be back. I'm curious to see how his origins are handled this time. Is the Valor identity gone for good? Hey, maybe he'll be reimagined as Bob Cobb, intergalactic hair brush salesman!

He better be in orange plaid!

"Okay, Mordru! Here's where you get... THE BRUSH-OFF!"

I'm going to agree with this one. I can think of a thousands ways they could have done this without wiping away continuity yet again.

Oh well, I've got my back issues. I just wonder how long this one will last. It's hard to get emotionally attached to these "Legions."

However, unlike Reboot, I will be buying and hopefully enjoying the new "Legion."

Talk about being disappointed! I just don't understand why the powers that be insist on doing these things. If you want to write stories about a group of futuristic social workers by god do so! But leave the Legion alone! Create something new. Be as creative as you want but don't destroy something else in the process! If it's as good an idea as you think (or have convinced yourself) it is, then it will sell without the Legion name.

All I can see happening here is that the post boot fans will now discover how WE felt when they threw everything we prebooters cherished about the LSH out the window and rebooted them into something we didn't recognize. Yes I've enjoyed reading some of the stories but it's just not the LEGION.

And, by damn, if Mon doesn't show up real soon, I'll hold Waid myself while VtM beats the crap out of him!

Hrrrmmmph!

Move along, move along....nothing to see here. Vee's been restrained and medicated...move along.

< s Vee... >

Now that I got that off of my chest let me say the following.

I will give Waid & Kitson a shot at proving me wrong. I will buy the book to see what they do with it.

I just want to read stories about the group I grew up idolizing and became like family to me.

Tell good stories about my Legion and I'll thank you for it.

Hi Guys - well I guess controversy was bound to rule - everything to do with Legion gets confusing doesn't it?
One of the things I know Mark hoped to explain at Baltimore was that we are not wiping out any past continuity - it all still there.... but we are doing something different.
We really hope you'll enjoy it!

I'm not crazy enough to try to explain any more about what's happening - 'cos I know I'll only end up spreading more confusion - as I may have done in the past...as I thought a reboot meant wiping out past continuity...which we aren't ...so I said this wasn't a reboot...shows how much I know I guess...sorry if I unwittingly misled anyone.

Hope you enjoy the new series!

So it's going to be following a Hypertime Legion, in an altUniverse or something. Whoo-sprocking-hoo.

Now I'm really confused!

BTW, thanks for stopping by Barry! We always appreciate visits and participation from the creative team here on Legion World.

Thanks CM3 Vee - it's an honor to be here. One of my favorite things about my long run on L.E.G.I.O.N. was being part of the legion family and getting to know so many of the readers. It was great going to conventions and being able to put faces to so many people I'd corresponded with for so long. I looking forward to experiencing that again with all the Legion readers!
I always thought the interaction between readers and creators was one of the things that made Legion unique!

Anyway, thanks again for the welcome!

I'm very excited about the new Legion!! It sounds like they are taking the best of both continuities, and giving it a well needed kick in the butt.

As an 'old-timer' this is definitely something we've gone through before, and this time, it doesn't look like the teams from '20th/21st century' books telling the creators what they can't do!

Re-boot, Re-imagining, whatever you want to call it, it may just put that spark back into the Legion that we've been missing.

Hope Infectious Lass makes the cut...

Thanks for the support - putting the spark back is definitely our objective...
Though Spark will of course be Light Lass....

Another tease?

The absence of Ayla and Garth from the cover has me anxious. I fear it's an unpleasant surprise. Barry, what in tarnation have you done with the Ranzzes?!

hmmm makes me wonder what will happen to:

Invisible Kid, Timber Wolf, Gates, Kinetix, Chuck Taine, Gear, XS, Andromeda, Shakira, etc etc....

no longer Sensor!! PRINCESS PROJECTRA!!

Star Boy is a black guy? hmmm, interesting!
no more Umbra - SHADOW LASS YESSSS!!

Element Lad s BACCK!!! Sun Boy is BAAACK!!! yes yes yes!!

Apparition is no more...now called Phantom Girl!! yes yes that's a bonus.

Barry - thanks!! but do me a favor - some of the costumes need to be re-design!! Brainiac 5's yuck! Element Lad's hmm okay...something missing there.

Karate Kid, Dream Girl, Chameleon, Shadow Lass, Phantom Girl, Sun Boy, Princess Projectra, Saturn Girl, Cosmic Boy, Lightning Lad, Star Boy, Colossal Boy, Shrinking Violet, Ultra Boy, Element Lad, Brainiac 5 all made the cut.

so who are the remaining two members?

I bet Light Lass is the one who made it too. (hinting from Barry Kitson) hmmm...can't wait.

well, i am very excited about the new series!
i always liked barry's art (and the cover for #1 is very good! i already put it on the desktop of the pc i use at work ), and waid is showing with his wonderful F4 run to be in a very good writing mood.

but, as barry said, as a legion fan i am still confused about a few things... obviously, the doubts i'm going to express are built only around what i heard on the net about this new series, so please take them for what they really are

first of all, since waid said that this new legion is going to be "the legion as if they were created in 2004", why did he pull in it so many silver age references? i mean, all the "bright shiny future" stuff sounds very silver age to me, not to mention the "lad lass kid" thing
i don't know if it's just me, but i think it looks like a countersense...

to drive away my last doubt, i have a little question for barry, if he can answer.
waid said that he wants to make this new legion series one on DC's top seller titles. obviously, i really hope it will be so!
but, since the american super-heroes' comics market has contracted a lot in the last ten years to about 2 or 300.000 readers or so, why don't you try a more sci-fi approach instead of the usual super-powered-guys-in-tight-pants stuff, and try to reach a new audience?
i think that the legion is a series that would earn a lot from an approach like this, as DnA partially demonstrated in their early issues like legion lost.

anyway, i'm really looking forward to LoSH #1!
even if, since i live in italy, i'll have to wait until about the 10th of jan to hold the comic in my hands

I am very much looking forward to this. The optimism is as high as ever, and I can't wait for #1!

Gim is back? YES!!!

I have some concerns of course, but I'll put them on the back-burner for a brief period to see what's coming.

BTW, where is the link for these images that everyone is talking about?

Check page three of the spoilers thread for a copy of the cover, Cobie.

Sounds enticing! Wish I coulda been there (I was at Baltimore Airport a couple of days ago actually).

Ok... I'm going to keep my mouth shut about this cuz we obviously don't know what we're talking about. Continuity is still intact, but Gim's going to be alive (and from a race of giants? (did Waid actually say "Gim" or "Colassal Boy"?), there was no time gap, so this isn't a new generation taking on the old guys' names... yeah, I'm stumped.

(I just hope that Barry isn't making a distinction between "wiping out" continuity and "hypertiming it". I mean, the preboot wasn't "wiped out" either since it exists in Hypertime, but since no stories are continuing from it, does it really matter? Will this new series continue from the last series' continuity? I guess we'll find out in .... (ugh) Decenber)

A few more Baltimore tidbits here at The Pulse. Bouncing Boy is not a member (sob!}, but Waid is fighting to get him in. Superboy is not a member "at first". Waid is also reported as saying that just because their favorite Legionnaire was not in the first few issues, that didn't mean that they wouldn't be brought in later. A ray of hope, at least.

And the reason for the reboot? No surprise. It all boils down to sales.

Maybe someone else will run a recap that's not written by a condescending jerk. But thanks for the link TC.

Add me to the "confused but curious" contingent regarding this reboot-in-continuity!

In any event, I renewed my subscription for a year, so I'm along for the ride!

Wow could that guy on that Pulse thread have been any more contemptuous of Legion fans? God. Yes. Mr Big Important Marvel Comics Fan, you think the Legion is dorky and their fans are pathetic nerds. Fine. How about telling us what we want to know which is you know, your *job* and everything.

Moron.

Personally I can't imagine being a comics fan and not knowing who Shrinking Violet and Colossal Boy are. *sigh*. His loss.

Happily there'll be another Legion panel report on The Pulse tomorrow.

A few non-reboot related things while I'm thinking of them:

Paul Levitz said that he had gotten the DC Direct folks to do another round of Legion figures, which is how we got that last wave. But they aren't selling, so that's probably it for awhile. Unless the new book takes off, in which case we'll get figures based on the new designs.

He also said that new editions of the Legion Archives will likely appear every other year instead of annually.

[sarcasm]And the good news just keeps coming![/sarcasm]

Thanks for the info though, OM!

Yayyy! More Legion figures!
Boooo! No Bouncing Boy!
Yayyy! Waid's fighting to get him in!
Boooo! I'm sober!

(Re-posted from another thread in order to get Barry's attention.)

BARRY!!!

I just read on the DCMB that its you who's holding up the re-introduction of Bouncing Boy! Apparently Mark wants him in and you don't! What can I do to make you change your mind?!?

Bouncing Boy is a fantastic character - not only is he visually probably the most original character EVER but his power is super-cool and FUN, his personality is charming and endearing and by being slightly larger in the stomach than most other heroes he lends a touch of diversity and realism to this series that most other comics don't have. Not only that but if you look at the many Legion Survivor games that have taken place on this board you'll see that Chuck, as one of the more popular members, always finishes near the top! The fans want him back!

Let's face it - Bouncing Boy is one of the most original and easily recognisable members of this team and needs to be a permanent member ASAP! Please listen to Mark and consider bringing him back.

(Someone needs to start a thread where we can all clamour for Bouncing Boy's return!)

done, Blacula! Be sure to voice your opinion there.

Alas, poor Barry, we knew him well...

Barry, think of all the rotund kids who need to see a positive representation of themselves in their comic books!!

FATTIES FOR FAIRNESS!

I heard that back in 1994. According to some people, the preboot is still there, too, but evidence would suggest otherwise.

Now you can tell us what you REALLY think of WaK's LSH!


Waid & Kitson Poll

HAH! did you all catch Mark Waid's response to the PULSE guy's "report"?
{We'll have panel coverage of that tomorrow on THE PULSE. "--Jen}
{"Cool! I hope it's more accurate and less pissy! Then again, it would pretty much have to be. "--Mark Waid}

Ha ha ha
Surely we're not that bad?

Read the rest of that thread, Frank Cho didn't think much of the reviewer either.

As usual with me, prepare your stones....

I .... I Luh
I LIKE the idea of a Hypertime Legion. I LIKE the new costumes. I LIKE the new concept.

We have to remember something I point out ad nauseum over at the DC boards. You all know it, but it bears repeating:

The ULTIMATE goal of any business is to GROW. In the comic business, growth means NEW readers. When a book hauls around 35-40 years of continuity (or baggage as some writer would say) it is very difficult (perhaps impossible) for new readers to get on board. A reboot is the easiest way of starting fresh. By doing so, a writer is allowed either the freedom to execute editorial demands (most likely), or his own whim.

We, the devoted, are usually loathe to this idea. We have spent countless years and countless dollars invested in these stories, sometimes to the point of mania! This does not and can not matter to the publisher because, if it did, comic book development would have stalled out in the late 1940's. Needless to say, we wouldn't be talking about this because comics would have long since died with that first readership. No, change and more change is the order of the day in the comics biz.

Do you think fans of the original X-Men were thrilled by the Clairemont / Cockrum book that suddleny appeared on the racks?

Let's not forget another point.

WE AS COMIC BOOK READERS ARE OWNED!!!!!

That's right, we're junkies for the stuff. Sure, a certain title may occasionally send us over the edge and we'll drop it (for me it's Doom Patrol), but more likely than not we will just replace it with another book.

Maybe not another book by that publisher, but hey, these days it's pretty much a 50-50 chance that it WILL be. And there's always tomorrow- that next new series that will rope you in like the sheep you are, the return of that character from your youth that you just KNEW wasn't REALLY dead....

YOU ARE OWNED.

Therefore, they do not have to impress you. They do, however, have to impress the person who randomly picks up that comic in Borders or wherever. That person who could easily shell out his/her expendable cash on a MMORPG or video games or movies etc. that's the target audience. Not you. Not me.

Comics= cigarettes minus the cancer.
Mwaha...Mwaha... MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! [Lightning]

I have to agree with you. During days of the Warren Ellis Forum, this point was painstakingly proven to me by his weekly "WHAT I PICKED UP THAT I LIKED/WHAT I PICKED UP THAT I'M EMBARASSED BY" lists -- we'd all put up our lists, and it WAS embarassing to see ... forced me to exchange my underoos for knit boxers and cancel MOST of my monthly books so that i can savor the better-tasting brews in other genres.

I LOVE COMICS. I just don't like bad ones, and I find that the serial production often leads to lower-quality books. I'd rather pick up the collections - they read better that way IMO (i.e. JSA, Flash, Ultimate X-Men). Of course, the market being what it is, sometimes what's good doesn't make it to trade (i.e. any more DIAL H, LEGION LOST).

Sigh.

You go, Rhino!

And FAT doesn't have to be unsexy. A little thickness works for some people.

I'd add a couple more points to equality and fairness when it comes to diversity of the human race, especially in the future (a PRIMARY selling point of the original Legion), but I'm pretty sure everyone on this board kinda knows that already...

That's because Frank's the ever-luvvin' BOMB, Ol' Yeller! His SHANNA is gonna RAWK!

A big-boned Bouncing Boy must bounce once more! To quote the poet Sir Mix-A-Lot "I like big butts and I cannot lie, all you other brothers can deny". Of course, I'd be willing to consider a trade of Bouncing Boy for a Matter-Eater Lad and oh say...an Invisible Kid?

Aint it the truth?

Who knew that Frank's a Legion fan?
That is so cool.

Yet another Baltimore report at RAC.DC.LSH, this one from an anonymous source. A few details I haven't hear before, or which put a different slant on things. I apologize for any redundancy.

"The episode starts after the Legion has been around for a year. "
(I wonder who the first leader is, if in fact there is a leader.)

"The founders won't play a large part immediately."
(Sounds like Waid will focus on the junior classmen first. Cos will have plenty of downtime to find a new girlfriend.)

"Brainiac 5 will not be an official member, to start, but WILL be in the book regularly as their science advisor".
(I already knew this, but some people might have missed it. Not sure I like it)

"Waid says we'll have anywhere from 18-25 members in the Legion when he starts."
(Contrast "18 or so" in an earlier report. I'll go with Barry's count of 20.)

"Ultra Boy will be a bigger thug than we've ever seen before, but still the Jo we know and love."
(Neanderthal Boy. Ugh!)

"Some of the bad guys will be villains. Some will merely be adults who don't want the changes the Legion intends to evoke."
(The utopians sound like a bunch of reactionary old fuddy-duddys. Where's R.J. Brande in all of this?)

"No word on villains yet. Except, we will see Persuader early."
(The Persuader again. Anyone else think he might be the point of intersection between Simone's and Waid's arcs?)

You can read the entire report HERE.

Johanna Draper Carlson (who put together the panel with husband KC Carlson) promised to post her own report in the newsgroup in a few days.

It is a bit odd that he's been figuring so prominently lately, isn't it?

He's one of my favorite villains, and I'm glad to see him -- but I'm a bit surprised that he was in the last story arc, in the upcoming one, and apparently the new Legion as well...

Re: Bouncing Boy - I never cared for him. I started reading the Legion when he had already retired. There are a ton more characters i'd rather see before him.

So, there's an actual rule that they have to have "kid" and "lad" names? What'll that mean for Wildfire, Dawnstar, Blok, Timberwolf, Gates, Tellus, Quislet, Shikari etc? New names? Will they not be official members like Brainiac 5? (at lesat he's not Brain Boy) or will they become the new wave that breaks the rules?

I like the notion of cliques based on seniority and age etc. Could be interesting as long as they don't act too high school - we still have to respect these characters after all.

Hmmm...and the Atomic Axe and the Persuader armor were tied into the 21st C. just a couple of years ago, weren't they?

I'm sure there are some people here who have already thought long and hard on this. Greybeard? What would Dawny's "lass" name be?

The reference to older Legionnaires as "upperclassmen" puts me in the mind of military school or college, an idea that doesn't fit the Legion. (Images of senior cadets playing pranks on juniors or having wild frat parties comes to mind.)

Most of the changes announced by the mysterious "Guest 1" don't sound appealing, in fact, but perhaps they'll play better in the story (assuming we can trust this anonymous source).

So it really is a "return to the roots" of the Super-Hero Club, from what I gather. And why do they have the "Lad", "Lass", "Kid", etc. names? Because that's what super-heroes do, of course!

I really excited by this!

Also of note is the news that the Legion will already be established. Guess what that means? Untold tales. As much as we might not want to see everything start from scratch again, we're gonna end up with a new origin story waiting to happen.

Untold Tales became the best part of the 5yeargap.
IMO

i always love untold tales! i'm very excited.
i think the boy/girl names are cool again, especially outside of fanboy circles. it's part of the lexicon...take an outstanding characteristic and put boy/girl/man, etc. after it and you are making a statement that everyone understands and gets the superhero reference. "Today i was Road-Rage Girl!", you get the picture. i can think of several recent examples of the boy/girl phenom...Marvel Boy; Murder Girl; Danger Girl; Hellboy...
Lad and Lass are a bit more arcane i'll admit. Kid is cool though. I don't think Waid + Kitson are forcing ALL legionnaires to have those names (Brainiac 5, Shrinking Violet, and they said Chameleon not Chameleon Boy), but it IS a starting point probably given that their inspiration is SuperMAN and SuperBOY.

I think it's a smart move by WaK. After all, we didn't get a preboot origin story until 1967. And this time I'd much prefer to see the LSH formed without the grandfatherly assistance of R.J. "Money Bags" Brande. Imho, the impetus to form should come from the three founders themselves, and stem from from their admiration of ancient super-heroes. It would be more in keeping with the "indie rock" label, too.

If Projectra returns in all her regal glory, all is good for me.(Sun Boy and Gim Too!)
About Bouncing Boy, I remember in the L.E.G.I.O.N. series a rejected character from a world of bouncing men. Maybe could be a new Chuck's origin.
Other idea of mine is, if the writers has to kill a legionnaire, don't kill a loves one.
Re-imagined characters like Reflecto,Kid Quantum,
Galaxy or Monstress, all for died in action.

And please! Bring back the real Emerald Empress : Sarya Of Venegar.

Johanna Draper Carlson's report is posted HERE at The Pulse.

Nothing really new to me, except the statement "there will be a broader range of ages" and the fact they're hoping for 50-60 thousand new readers!

I like the idea of an age range but I hope its not too broad. A 25 year-old Rokk next to a 15 year-old Val (for example) would just be too weird for me. I'm hoping the age spread is no more than 5 years.

Other stuff in the report that jumped out at me -

They didn't want a bunch of white guys this time, either. Using the example of Star Boy as a hard-luck guy, Waid said that he was the same guy at the core, even if he looked different.

I guess that confirms it. Thom will indeed be black this time around. I'm cool with this. The Legion definitely needs more diversity and if we're sticking with classic characters then the only way to do it, I guess, is to play around with some of their races. I wonder who else they might have done this with? My guesses - Vi, Lyle, Tinya.

Colossal Boy may be the furthest from the previous version. He's from a race of giants, and his power is that he can shrink to six feet high, so he joins as Micro Lad.

I don't care what they do to his origin as long as his name is Gim Allon!

Every issue, he wants to build a sense of soap opera and leave the reader wondering what happens next.

Like the sound of this! At last - excitement *AND* characterisation. When was the last time a Legion story had either of those?

Looking forward to this series more and more!

Brainy the science advisor is probably older. Maybe the founders are a bit older too and have sort of a parental relationship with the junior members. That would be a nice touch, especially if Brande is no longer in the picture.

Really? I have to admit that I've always liked Ayla better with the lightning than the gravity powers. I'm hoping she still had the one power and lost it so that, potentially, she could be Lightning Lass at some point.

With (at least) 30 pages of story, they have plenty of room for character and action. They're both such experienced storytellers, that it must feel like a luxury to stretch across 8 more pages.

The firm commitment to go quickly to a $10 trade on the first arc (also reported on the panel) is good news. Hopefully there's enough vibrancy, excitement, magic and sexiness in the new Legion to attract a bunch of new readers to the mix (even if it's 20,000 readers who only pick up the trades).

About racial/sexual/species/age diversity...
The creators have been pretty vehement that this will be a full-range diverse Legion. Great. Diversity is one of my minimum requirements when I buy a comic. BUT, isn't making Thom/Star Boy a Black man similar to making Projectra a snake? In another thread, I wondered about retconning some of the Legionnaires as gay, and some people wondered why there couldn't be new characters who were gay, instead of altering the ones we already knew.

I don't have any particular problem with it, as long as it's done well. After all, there's probably been at least a half-dozen versions of Thom in the Legion already! But if Thom's Black, let him be in all ways, not just through a colorist. (And I don't mean rapping or a hokey Luke Cage "Sweet Christmas!" or a disco Tyroc screaming "Down with Whitey, Bluesey and Greeny in the UP!") The DC Post-Crisis Affirmative Action characters bugged me (Wildcat, Dr. Midnite, Dr. Light, the New Guardians). They seemed like a quick dash of paint (or whatever coloring process was being used) on the DCU as an attempt to appeal to a pop culture with an increasingly 'urban' taste.

And that would be very uncool in the Legion.

(Yes, I'm starting to look forward to the series too.)

So Mark Waid is retconning his own stuff from KINGDOM COME? I guess this Star Boy won't be the Danny Blaine Starman.

Well, in fairness, KC is hardly canon, thanks to the Miracle Machine known as hypertime.

"Ultimate" Legion, eh? Back to the superhero club basics? Yeah, I'm psyched. But I was that already. As disappointed as I was with DnA's whole last year on Legion, I'm ready for a change. And getting back Legionnaires who were lost the last time around (Gim, Jeckie, Jan, etc.) is more than worth the price.

235Andy: The new Thom should be "black in all ways?" But what would that MEAN in the early 30th century? The lot of us blacks has changed a great deal in only 300 years, let alone a full millenium. I doubt we'd have the same issues.

Is it the same as Projectra-cum-Sneckie? Naw. That was an incredibly RADICAL change, one that was a cruel bait-and-switch and the ONLY one to be so completely and unrecognizably changed.

That said, I want Ferro to be a brotha! But he better not get killed.

You know, I was thinking the same thing re: Black culture in the future. I guess I'm more afraid that we get Thom with the same personality as either Bear Thom (Levitz-Baxter era) or Wannabe-God Thom (DnA), but with a darker hue in the coloring. I'd like to see what being Black means in Waid/Kitson's future through a range of Black characters (not just 1). (And of course I wonder why they couldn't use Tyroc if they wanted a Black character.)

Of course, will this change Star Boy's famed romance with the sexy precog martial artist from Naltor? Eh, who cares?

Ferro, eh? That's a great idea. Turns Dunbar's poem "We Wear the Mask" into a whole other thing.
That's the kind of thing that would be interesting to explore! Some characters don't have firmly established racial or sexual identities and it adds levels when we discover them.

I hope Waid catches some of these nuances in his writing. (I have a friend back in New York who would just shake his head in pity right now, as he's LONG given up on Waid's track on diversity.)

Andrew and Douglas Nolan as black men? What a wonderful idea. Ferro has never really developed any depth as a character, especially considering he's been around longer than half the roster (being dead is a real hinderance to character growth). That's the kind of idea that immediately gives him some roots and motivations in the real world.
I like it a lot.

um...jim shooter created Ferro Lad to be the first Black legionnaire but the DC editors wouldn't allow it.

http://www.comicon.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=36&t=002794

Just read this over at the Pulse. Is Levitz a cool cat or what? I guess I just see him a fan, writer, and business man all rolled up into one. Sometimes a title needs that business approach as well to help sell more comics. Loved all his answers! Especially the Pokemon answer about readers wanting to know everything about each character, etc.

"Society for Creative Anachronism of the 31st century" is probably the worst of it. ohwell I hope it works.

I like the comment Levitz made about editing the Legion. Darn it Levitz needs to return to writing!

Jorge

Thanks GN. I never knew that. That is so cool, too bad the concept didn't carry over when Cockrum revamped the X-Men and sort of took Ferro Lad with him.

So would that have made him the very first black superhero? He was pre- John Stewart and pre- Black Panther certainly but I don't know, it's not a field of comic knowledge I've ever investigated.

[235 - Andy S]
{ I'm sure there are some people here who have already thought long and hard on this. Greybeard? What would Dawny's "lass" name be? }

All I can contend is that she simply wouldn't have one. Her name is "Dawnstar" ("of Starhaven," if needed), and that's "our" family's story, and we're stickin' to it.

I wrote elsewhere in some detail about the many weaknesses in Waid's notion, for those who didn't see it. (Andy S agreed with it -- thanks for your note in that thread.)

I honestly haven't given this any thought over the years. Mostly from my never liking the idea of having names conform to a pattern. One that, fortunately, was broken for the (newer) Legionnaires by the '70s.

Such patterns can work when they guide alternatives, as with the center-stripe motif in the reboot outfits. Not nearly as well when they prescribe something with which to conform.

(... It's Greybird, by the way, though the mundane version of me does have a grey beard {g})

You know, this just made me think that I really don't like using their code names - either the Lad/Lass or the recent ones - except for Cham, Brainy, Vi... the "real" names seem easier, or more comfortable... I think Dawnstar was the only one who ever used her real name as her "code name". Well, the short-lived Dev-em also.

You forgot Shikari.

And Blok. I think. But who's splitting hairs.

I understand what Waid is getting at when he says this, but I don't think that either the SCA or "indie rock" are touchstones that resonate with a lot of people.

Another comparison might be with the original Star Trek. The future looked fairly bright, with things like famine and disease and racism largely defeated. But the Federation really needed a throwback like Jim Kirk to keep things moving forward. Or maybe I'm just reaching here.

I think that's a great example. Kirk was considered a troublemaker, too, but he had an enormous impact (and saved the universe on several occasions, I dare say.)

Sorry, man. Won't get it wrong again.

I think i'm just jealous cuz i don't grow facial hair.

I honestly think BLOK is gonna be come soon with the codename Stone Boy. I just hope it's really Blok! I loved Blok.

Jorge

Reboot? LIGHT LASS!?

Damn...

Wait! Don't cry. Maybe we'll get both Spark and Light Lass. If the founders are older and have families (like they did after the 5YG)) then it's possible that Vi and Ayla might have a little girl to raise. Ayla Ranzz Jr. maybe?

I know virtually nothing about the modern Titans but the way things read in the comic makes me wonder if some of the Titans will be sticking around the 30th Century. However-

1. Robin couldn't become a Legionnaire. (no super power)

2. Keep Brainiac away from Cyborg, we know what happens when Querl messes with ald computer technology...or to quote Lightning Lad from an old book, "If Computo pops out I'm going to fry Brainy's hide."

3. I'd really dig Starfire in the Legion.

4. The thought of Raven and Umbra working in combination frightens me.

5. Is there any chance thwe adult Titans wil get pulled into this? Where the heck are Dick, Roy, Donna and Wally?

We'll just have to Waid and See. har-har-har-har

You guys remember when Blok became "cool"? I think it was probably around the time he acquired the red n' blue costume and started hanging out with Brin. They were really a great pair. That relationship reminded me of Wonder Man and the Beast over in the Avengers.


I'm really getting excited about the use of the term "characterization". This is something we haven't really seen in these pages in several years. That was the one ingredient that made the Legion so great in the 1980's and early 90's.


It's amazing how few creative teams figured that out over the last few years. That "soap opera" feel to this book it what made it great. We had ongoing story lines and sub plots that went on for months. We had characters that loved each other and others that couldn't stand to be in the same room. Great stuff!!! I want to see the inner team bonds, and the ongoing rivalries.


By the way Yellow Flash Kid, Robin's lack of a super power wouldn't keep him out of the Legion...just as long as he could prove himself like Karate Kid did many years ago. Myg (Karate Kid II) became a Legionnaire as well.


I think Dick and Roy are with that reformed group, The Outsiders. Donna is presumably dead and Wally is currently with the JLA/JLA Elite teams.

Dick Grayson is nowhere near the master of personal combat that Karate Kid was. KK's skill was so great that, for all intents and purposes, it qualified as a super-power (depending on how the latter is defined). He could, after all, slice steel with his bare hand.

Dick is a highly skilled acrobat, detective and fighter, but none of those would qualify as superhuman capabilities, by any stretch of definition. So, Dick would likely be ineligible for the Legion, if we're using the team's traditional requirements for membership.

That would not prevent him, however, from being an auxilary member or reservist like Chuck Taine was this last go-around.

By the time he joined the Legion, didn't Myg also have some sort of sonic powers? I'm thinking the Dominators gave him a power up somewhere around the Legion on the Run Era... just prior to the Earth's destruction.

It wasn't until after Black Dawn and Myg had left the Legion that the Dominators did their experiments that released his dormant sonic abilities.

My only hope is they bring in chars that didnt even have a _shot_ in the reboot, like Blok and Chemical King