Supergirl LSH Preview at Newsarama

Reminder it comes out March 22nd

Hope you don't mind the small edit to the subject TL. I just had to say this (since its something we have to live with at home) and didn't want people ticked due to spoilers.

What comes after "Eat it, Grandpa!"?

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"Don't crap you diaper, Grandpa!"

NP Scott, I usually remember but i forgot to put the warning on.

Jeepers some folks are gonna hate that line, but the people who love the Turner Supergirl design jumping aboard this issue will probably love Ultraboy for life.

So we have a new colorist? I of mixed minds about that, I like Sno-cone's work but at times Barry's art seemed overwhelmed by their colors. I actually prefered the pastels look of the early issues.

Speaking of colorists - what's Tom McCraw doing these days?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I don't like the whole teens vs. adults thing anymore - it comes across really ... childish here. Like a Home Alone movie or something.

It is getting a bit monotonous. I was hoping we'd moved on by now.

[Of course, I type this as I'm making several graemlins to be revealed soon... :rolleyes: ]

Teens with 'tude seem to be universal, no matter which time period they live in

It almost seems to be written as a parody of Adult-Teen conflict. Like the song "Officer Krupke" in West Side Story. That would require some concious effort though. I can't imagine giving Waid that much credit. I think he's playing it straight and overdoing it.

Hopefully this is just to bring the Supergirl bandwagon up to speed and the last time we see it for a while. Her readership is probably a little younger than the LSH readership and this might play better with them and hook a few of them.

So, is it just me, or was the kid "Joseph" on one page but "Jonathan" on the next?

No, I caught that same thing.

As long as I get to be the first to use, "Don't crap your diaper, Grandpa!"

KLAR is no doubt a play on Klar Ken, the Superman of 2965. Notice the "S" curl.

I seem to be getting a few "Lester Spiffany" graemlins myself

Abusing newly-granted authority already! Tsk tsk. Forcing grandpa to hand over his specs seems like illegal seizure of private property. If they can't play nice with their new powers, somebody might take them away.

Go Klar! (my new battle cry )

Joseph Jonathan Banner. Problem solved

At some point I am definitely hoping that the whole Teen vs Adult thing goes away. I wasn't outrageously thrilled with the premise when the book relaunched, and it's only growing tedious over time. And even though there appears to have been a method to their madness in these preview pages, I was really turned off by the Legionnaires' attitudes. They were like the snotty brats that I wanna pound whenever I see them at the mall.

There are times when this Legion feels familiar to me, but sometimes they make me want to drop the title altogether. Back in the day, the Legion used to be role models. Now I wonder exactly what sort of message that this era of heroes is sending...

The art and colours look great - and Klar organising a protest was fun!

Am I the only one who thinks of the swinging sixties with the young vs old theme? (Am I the only one who remembers the sixties?)

No, sweetie, you're not the only one.

Never trust anyone over thirty.

I was born in 1968, so my memories of the 60's are minimal at best

I remember very, very little about the 60's, but then again, for different reasons, I could say the same about the 80's.

Some things about the 80's are best left forgotten

Ah the adults v. kids trauma.

I'm pleased to say that, IMHO, this preview is actually doing it right. Yes, it feels like we're beat over the head with it when the legionnaires simply keep repeating the refrain. But when the story actually shows that it isn't just adults the Legion is after but an uncolorful, impersonable status quo, then I'm all for it.

No.

and seconded! What a great way to see it APB

Matthew, that's an amazing and well thought out column (and a great website!). Very interesting and very impressive.

This is too obvious to be worth pointing out, but I will anyway. Eando Towers is named after Eando Binder, a pseudonym used by Otto Binder and his brother Earl (E and O).

Well, it may be obvious, but I didn't catch it. Thanks!

Thanks very much.

God I was hoping that with the OYL move this facet of the book would be toned way down. It seems just the oppisite. I am pretty sure issue 16 will be my last. I just can't get into a book where I hate most of the main characters, and the way better than half are being written now I really don't like them. Most are either cocky beyond repair or assholes. I always thought the point of the Legion was to try to be better than stuff like that and not just sterotypes of modern kids.

Can't really argue with that. The sad fact is, I was rooting for Klar there. The Legionnaires in that scene are jerks.

I'm a parent, not a teenager. Well, maybe that's just fate's way of telling me to lay off the funnybooks. I skipped the last couple issues, and it will take something more promising than that to get me to go to the shop.

I hope they were acting like little snots in order to motivate the "older people" to interact with each other in person, instead of through video screens.
Problem is, I'm not much liking these kids.
This book really needs to find a direction soon. We need some shorter, faster stories to let us know who these guys are and why they're doing what they're doing.
Lose the damn "trade" pacing and liven things up.
Issue 15 was a bit of a dissapointment. It was well written, but I'm tired of the constant character teasing.
So many great characters in Legion history, there must be some way to utilize them in the current book.
I won't be dropping the book, but so far, it's not feeling like The Legion of Super-Heroes yet.

Thanks, Harbinger. Hope everyone else doesn't find the mental block immovable.

It's the hellraisers of the world that often make the biggest difference, and the Legionnaires may have turned Klar's life around by infuriating him out of his lethargy and isolation. I've grown to like these kids BECAUSE they're snotty, irreverent and confrontational, and because they have something else that's extremely rare in the DCU these days -- a genuine joie de vivre. I was pleasantly surprised to see that their deal with the U.P. didn't curb their style.

Having said that, the scene in question scene would have played much differently if the group had consisted of three founders and Projectra, for instance. Some of these kids are thoughtful and relatively mature, so let's not paint them all with the same brush.

Interestingly, one of the things that's always bugged me about the 70s "disco era" team is that every member seems to be written with the same juvenile hothead personality. It seems to me we're getting a lot more interesting variety in this incarnation.

That said, I'm a lot more interested in what this team and this society look like ten years down the road than seeing them at this point in their careers.

I think that is what bugs me most about the preview. Those pages look like they could have been happening a day or so after the events of issue 14. Not a whole year latter. You would think that after a year the Legion and their status would be widely know. Like I said I was hoping that alot of this older/younger stuff would be downplayed with year going by their time.

I'd really like to see this Legion 5YL - or better yet, 10YL. Maybe they'd be like our sixties people, who became stock brokers and stuff.

Anyways, they're an interesting bunch, but just for fun, I think I'll start cheering for the adults.

It is my understanding that the Legion will not jump a year despite what the solicitions might suggest. The new HQ is still under construction in issue #16 (Garth said they could rebuild "overnight" with the endowment) and Brainy is still missing with Lemnos and the body of Dream Girl as of issue #18.

well, the preview has me eagerly awaiting the next issue. I suppose, part of my enjoyment is that I am not comparing it to previous incarnations. on the othe hand, compared to books I am currently reading or have stopped reading LSH is one of better ones.

still, given the nature of comics, I am sure in about 10 years time, I will be berating the fact that "my" Legion has been changed. history doesn't repeat, but it does rhyme from time to time.

The Legion's OYL will be semantic only, the first page of issue 14 gave the date as New Year's Eve.

So they can say 1001 years later, be technically correct and still have only days pass in the lives of the legionnaires.

Geez,

Are Legion fans actually supporters of a repressive and banal dictatorship? A police state?

Seriously, would you really not support the Legion here in a world like this?

Hey- maybe they *are* the 'mean' Legion from that old Superboy/Adventure story...

Seriously, I wish they'd relocate to another planet, because the Earth they're on now is so boooorrrrinnggg.

I don't really buy the whole isolation thing, either... there'd have to be good *reasons* behind such a radical shift in human behavior. We haven't seen them.

The strength of this series is in the character-work, some of the ideas for those characters and the art.

The setting doesn't capture my interest, as yet.

This preview displays the things about this title I like the least-- but who knows what happens on the page after? That's what keeps us coming back, I guess.

For some reason, I can't get the second page of the preview to load clearly- maybe there's something more fun there than seeing Shadow Lass steal from 'geriatrics' (Sometimes I think DC wants to get rid of all the readers over a ... certain age).

I certainly hope there's more to this issue than scenes in this vein.

It's all a matter of taste, but I found the incident in the preview delightful, with the possible exception of Shadie taking Klar's goggles. That's corrupt cop shakedown behavior, if you ask me. Altogether, this preview scene pleasingly reminded me of early Spider-Man tales. The hero helps someone out and learn that no good deed goes unpunished.

What's interesting about the conflict in Legion is that it is not REALLY about old vs. young. It's about inhibition vs. liberation. It MANIFESTS as old vs. young because it's basically only kids (and Sun Boys 'rents) behaving liberated. Of course, "Eat it, Grandpa" reinforces this dynamic.

It seems to me that the Legionnaires are fine with adults (Sun Boy's 'rents, Delegate Ardeen) who aren't condescending, patronizing and dismissive towards them. Only when provoked by the likes of Klar do they assume the mantel of petulant adolescent.

I see the Legionnaires as basically the early Beatles. On the one hand, they ARE a shock to the system, something totally new for their society. On the other hand, they aren't trying to destroy everything. They are trying to live THEIR lives uninhibited by unnecessary convention and inspire others to do the same. This bumps up against the inflexibility of VERY rigid and repressed mainstream society, and the resulting friction looks like old vs. young. In the end, though, the Legionnaires want evolution, not revolution.

So, the LSH's natural enemies are 1) zealots in defense of the current society, and 2) others (like Lemnos) who want a more violent revolution in the current society. It seems like Waid and Kitson are missing a great opportunity by not introducting a Legion of Super-Anarchists as a long-term counterpoint to our heroes. Imagine Lightning Lord, Saturn Queen, Nemesis Kid, et. al. as sort of the "Weather Underground" of the 31st century. Come on, Mark and Barry. This would be a great way for the Legion and conventional 31st century society to become more clear on what the Legion does and does NOT stand for.

As for the reactionary zealots, imagine, oh, say, Universo (or someone completely new) as a charismatic leader of a fundamentalist movement trying to impose even harser mind control on under-agers?

The dynamics you end up with are not dissimilar to the whole Professor X/Magneto/Stryker conflicts in X-Men. However, the conflict can be much more grounded and realistic, since these are basically the SAME conflicts we deal with today in our society. Should kids have access to contraception? Does sex ed encourage or prevent unsafe sex in adolescents? Should gays be allowed to marry? When, if ever, is abortion legal and/or ethical? Do kids have 1st amendment protection for school newspapers or 4th amendment protection from locker searches? Should kids be fingerprinted/retinal scanned/microchipped? How late should kids be allowed to stay out on a weekend?

I agree with other posters, however, that this could be done better if it does done in a less heavy-handed way. I do look forward to what Mark and Barry have in store, though.

Oh dear I didn't like it at all! Speaking as someone who hates huge packs of teenagers hanging around (because it is damn scary and the teenagers where I live are generally unpleasant and thuggish.) my sympathies are most definitely with Klar.

And Shadow Lass stealing his glasses? Not cool. I'm far from a total silver age purist, but a Legionnaire *stealing* from a citizen? Tasmia would have found herself expelled from the Legion for such behaviour in any previous incarnation and quite right too.

These Legionnaires are rude disrepectful assholes. (I will say the American asshole rather than the English 'arsehole' because arsehole just doesn't have the lovely dismissive venom that 'asshole' has! )

I'm seriously debating continuing with this book. And when hardcore Legion fans like me are considering dropping the book you know they are in trouble.

I would say we are well on course for reboot number 4. Someone should start a betting pool on when. Honestly when fans as diehard as me are turned off it's pretty much inevitable.

Mark Waid really should realise that most Legion fans are the big bad grownups. Petulant brats don't play well with us.

*pfffff*

Did anyone notice Chameleon at the top of the 2nd page? Wonder who/what he was scanning.

Agreed. I actually really liked that. Legionnaires set themselves up to be infuriating on purpose--and by successfully standing up to them, the normals become them. Klar does win, and he wins thanks to the Legion. Very clever.

Mind you, I wouldn't want that to be official procedure, and I'm hoping they'll get at least mildly chewed out for it. And yeah, the glasses-grabbing was a step too far. But c'mon, that was Shady and Ultra Boy...they're supposed to misbehave! I'd much rather the bad boy/girl Legionnaires act out for a reason, than just throw the usual soap-operatic supertantrums. ("You tried to hit on my girlfriend! Let's fight with energy blasts in the middle of a crowded street!")

Personally I'd like to think that Shady gave the goggles back when the 'angry mob' came out. She was giving Klar an object lesson in the power of organizing to fight for one's rights. Utilizing that patronizing teaching technique some adults do with kids.

For anyone who missed them, there are 3 additional uncolored, unlettered pages from the same issue here .

Seeing that the bad guy is disguised as an SP, I have a feeling this is all leading up to the "Legionnaire as SP mole" plotline. It's one of these four, I think.

So is #16 set one year after #15? If so, I'm surprised that there are still some who don't realize the Legion is a part of Earthgov by now.

Not to sound overly negative or anything, but it seems like so many writers at DC are handling the reasoning of this OYL thing very sloppily. Its not a bad idea, but I'm going to get quite annoyed if there keep on being so many obvious lapses of logic like this.

Also, does issue 16 come out on the 8th or the 22nd? DC's website still says the 8th...

Hmm. The original solicitations listed the 22nd and as of the day that Tamper started this thread (2/27) DC's site had that same date. I know because I verified it to make an update at the Clubhouse. Diamond doesn't have it on next week's list but that can change Monday. Maybe it was ready early?

I don't think LSH is jumping forward. It's OYL because Waid identified the date of issue 14 as New Year's Eve.

As usual, DC has proven their site the least reliable when it comes to release dates. Diamond does not show #16 shipping this week or, at this time, next.

I checked with my CBS here, and they do not have it on the invoice of items shipped - which means it is not coming out this week.

I've posted a new article at Legion Abstract inspired by the upcoming LSH #16. This is exactly the kind of article I'd like to write more of, and I hope I do. Everyone's comments are welcome and invited, here or there.

Also, there's a 1,000 Year Later logo on the cover.

Jamie

1,001 Years Later.

Oops...you're right LL!

My bad.

Jamie

I saw the preview copy at Wizard World LA and talked to Mark about it. I told him I wasn't sure if I should flip through the issue or wait and he told me it'd be safe to flip through the beginning but that if I didn't want to spoil it, I shouldn't get to the end of the issue. I had him write a little blurb on my Polar Boy sketch too and he was shocked that he had forgotten Brek's homeworld.