Pretty close to being official... though pretty much no details on the creative team. If its in Adventure, one might suspect that Superman or Superboy would be a recurring part of the feature.

Adventure Comics is one of my favorite historical titles at DC. But while I'm positive about Lo3W, just about anything related to DC these days has me skeptical and worried.

I know, and it's a shame too...! But yep, Adventure COmics is back with the Legion as it's stars apparently.

Why is this a bad thing? No criticism meant on my part, just curious as to why or what your feelings are.

It's high time they brought the Legion back to Adventure Comics, imho. Just don't understand why it took them 40 years to do it. I also don't see why they have to start over with #1.

I think I'd rather see an ADV as an anthology. Legion deserves its own book. And not a subaltern role to Superman.

[skeptical]Well, at least next time DC wants to get rid of the Legion, they won't have to cancel the title! They can simply move someone else into Adventure Comics![/skeptical]

All but confirmed -- Adventure Comics relaunched, with feature long associated with that title:

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/110817-AdventureComics.html

This announcement was part of a Superman dialogue and as such I suspect it will be starring Superman and the Legion. Presumably that's why it's not LSH v6

The Legion back in their spiriual home can't be all bad...

I love it...but the Legion needs two titles to be able to tell effective stories due to the size of the cast and scope of the stories.

It doesn't work as a limited feature...and the Legion fans have shown that that 25k base that supports every book can and will support more than one book...they showed it for just about the entire decade of the 90's.

Two titles...


Didio has also said he thinks all the cornerstone franchises deserve two titles...WW is about to get a second title, so is Justice League, Green Lantern and the Titans already have two titles...that just leaves Flash and the Legion as the cornerstones without them...hopefully this will just be part of the upcoming Legion plans.


The first issue of LOTW sold 68k plus reorders...while that's not as big as I thought it would be, it's definitely a good number that bodes well for the Legion's continued publication...remember, when the Legion is going well(usually when Superboy was in tow), it holds it's audience month to month like few franchises in history....that trend still was intact in the Action arc...hopefully it will be for this LOTW tale as well.


My foundation for relaunching the Legion since this began has always been based upon two titles...

One with Superman/boy, one without...that is how you satisfy the split in this base. One serves as the gateway title, and the other serves as the red-meat for the hardcore base...

I personally think they should have one title chronicling the early years(with Superboy, not Superman)...and then one that chronicles the contemporary era.

This has always made the most sense for a successful Legion franchise to me, given the splits within the base and what has been successful in the past.


It's always been good for the Legion to be in a title with Superboy...usually much better for the Legion than the Boy of Steel himself....always. Not so true with Superman...the one time they shared a title with Superman they almost became obsolete.


In any case...the Legion needs two titles, and hopefully Didio includes them in his list of cornerstone characters...for they are indeed a cornerstone, even though they have suffered more since the COIE than any of the other cornerstones.

First thought: Aquaman becomes the new Spectre!! With red kryptonite Supergirl as the Black Orchid!!

I've heard stupider ideas than either of those.

Wow ~ it certainly came from way out in left field to me!
What have you heard???!

I like the idea of Adventure & the Legion.
Whether I continue to like the idea depends on the details.
Since there is no Superboy (hero) I don't know how DC could include him in the stories.
I've always wanted Supergirl more, anyway.
But, we'll see.

I agree that the Legion needs at least 2 books per month and that doesn't include R.E.B.E.L.S.,
imo.

The March solicits are up at Newsarama...


http://www.newsarama.com/comics/081115-dc-solicitations-mar-09.html

They have a couple of interesting entries concernig the Legion.

The first is:

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">
The first is Adventures Comics #0 which features a reprint of Adventure Comics #247 and a new story call Origins and Omens. Interesting...if that's the relaunch of Adventure, it doesn't appear to be an anthology, but rather a book devoted entirely to the Legion. The creative team for the Origins and Omens story isn't listed in the solicit....Call it a hunch, but I am pretty sure it's not Otto Binder and Al Plastino. </span></span>


The second is:

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">R.E.B.E.L.S. #1 which is the new Bedard book and an apparent relaunch of the old L.E.G.I.O.N. title which took the Rebels name at the end of it's run. What's really interesting about this is that they list a guest appearance by SUPERGIRL and the Legion of Superheroes...curiouser and curiouser..what are they up to?</span></span>


A couple of other things of interest:

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">The Action Comics from this month features Mon-El.</span></span>


And..

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">While I can't be certain, but when looking at the writing credits for this months JSA, Geoff Johns appears to be phasing himself out of the JSA and ceding the title to Jerry Ordway...perhaps to add room for an ongoing Legion Title? This entire month seems pretty light on Geoff Johns titles actually...could be Legion related.</span></span>

Regarding the JSA speculation - I'm thinking it's more along the lines of Jerry Ordway wanting to fix the mess made of the Marvel Family lately and asking Geoff to help him do it in the JSA series for this story arc and not a regular gig.

Yeah, like "let's reboot the Legion since we can't do it as well as that Giffen dude did a few years ago! And let's keep it really simple and infantile!"

I still wish Giffen hadn't changed his art style for the 5YL.

I, for one, am looking forward to it-IF it can stay on schedule and not have a revolving door of artists and writers.

I can't wait for Adventure Comics, and R.E.B.E.L.S. next year is going to be awesome.

I hope there is a Superboy to be with the Legion though I think that could help the book.

If what Dan D says is true and Legion is featured in Adventure Comics then it will be great. Now let's hope that whatever creative team is picked has the fans' best interests at heart (meaning read all theses darn forums!).

Do you all think that the Legion will be the only occupant of Adventure? Didio's comments indicated to me that Adventure would feature the Legion as it's main story, but would also be home to other guest heroes from time to time. In other words, the Legion may not appear every month. At least that's the impression I got reading the LA Times article.

Well, I guess this is better than nothing.

My guess is Aquaman.

really?

anyway, i don't understand why DC decided to restart adventure comics from issue 1.
i mean, i understand #1s' attractiveness. but i believe the point in bringing back such a title should be to resurrect "one of the very first comic books ever", as you said. wouldn't an adventure comics v3 #1 be now as meaningless as the new brave and the bold series, who already fell into oblivion (meaning the nobody cares about it anymore after just a bunch of issues)?
i think putting out an issue #0 would have been enough to lure new readers in, instead of restarting with a whole new issue #1.

i'm happy so the legion will have his own book again! i just hope the new AC will feature the action comics legion and not that awful threeboot...

Tales of the Bizarro World!

Maybe the back up story will be a superman +1 legionnaire member stand alone story. That would be sweet.

I've long wondered why we don't see a return to titles like Adventure with more than one feature in them. It would seem an obvious way of pooling loyal readerships of different characters that aren't, on their own, large enough to sustain a regular book. I wonder if there are diseconomies related to having more than 1 creative team?

GIven the trouble getting a book with one writer and art team out on time. Could you imagine putting out an 100 page giant with 5x16 pg features.

oh yes, I want WW to get the 2nd comics - more specifically which I am hoping for - is the return of Sensation Comics! *fingers crossing*

From DiDio "We’re also bringing back one of the old-time favorite titles of DC Comics "Adventure Comics." It will be ...back with a new No. 1 and with new stars but old stars at the same time. It’ll be pretty easy to guess who will be the stars of "Adventure Comics" if you know who the title was most identified with…"

I don't necessarily see that as meaning that the old stars will be the Legion and the new will be...The Guardian or whomever, and that there will necessarily be a backup story. He never said "It’ll be pretty easy to guess who will be the OLD stars of "Adventure Comics"

It could be that there will be Legionnaires who have never been in Adventure before, or as Semi Transparent Fellow said, that there will be a rotating cast, with the Legion as ONE of the main features.

Another possibility is that this will be a tryout mag, to see which feature shows the best sales, and then possibly give them their own series. That way, we don't have 2 (oops, 3, counting the 31st century cartoon) Legion "failures" in a short time.

OR, perhaps (and I agree with Legionnaire888, bring him back), there will be some "Untold Tales" of Superboy's early days with the Legion."


The main thing is, there is hope. I have often felt that the Legion is living on borrowed time, and now that they have another chance, I 'll take it.

Well they have kind of tried that recently...they've done miniseries recently using the names of old DC anthology titles like Strange Adventures, Mystery in Space, Tales of the Unexpected...they've even given the old House of Mystery the vertigo treatment recently...and the Brave and Bold also had a limited history as a sort of a secondary anthology title.

Many of these minis and series do feature multiple characters and usually pretty impressive creative talent...

None of them sold or are selling well unfortunately. I guess B&B is the most successful of them, and that's because it's primarily a team up book moreso than an anthology.


The thing is...the old anthology titles were often cheap with high page counts and the best part about them is they were often used as training grounds for young pros breaking into the business.


The current industry standards of expensive books, paper, talent, combined with limited page counts, extremely decompressed storytelling and a sort of star vehicle focus of promoting titles is what truly killed the anthology format.


It's amazing...we now have comics printed on the pricey paper designed to last forever...the problem is most of the time the story doesn't drive anyone to preserve it. And todays comics generally have no collector value whatsoever.


I'd kill to have newsprint and tryout books make a comeback using the anthology format with fat page counts...I think that's the only way it will work.


The big companies seem intent on squeezing every last dollar out of the marketplace while giving as little in return as possible, even if the longterm result is the destruction of the industry.


I don't think we're ever going to see comics become a cheap form of entertainment again, with the focus on them being cheap, and that's what would have to happen for the anthology format to be successful. Instead of making more money by giving customers more for their money...the companies now want to get as much money as possible for as little work and product as possible. They use bignames, fancy paper and month to month hooks to sell things now...not giving you as many hours of entertainment as possible as cheaply as possible.

BTW, my pick for a franchise to share the Adventure title with the Legion(if there has to be one) is the Spectre. Sci-Fi and Horror...you'd have a bigger potential audience with the combined genres than you would with a single genre theme IMO. That single genre theme concept has been a sales disaster in every recent attempt at an anthology revival.

Well, anthologies or shared titles haven't been that succesful for a long time. Look at Marvel Comics Presents, for example, or even Action Comics back when it was weekly...

Ah, i don't know. I never was one for anthologies. I did never like short stories as well. In my eyes, it's not ever worth beginning to read a short story - you begin, it's already over, I don't like that.

The problem for me is that I am not interested in so many characters and heroes from the DCU - as I currently am very painfully getting aware of reading Final Crisis - that sharing the book, i would spend half of my money for nothing cause I don't care for Spectre, Aquaman, Atomic Knights or Challengers of the Unknown. Why should I spend 3,99 $ (price guessed) for ten pages of Legion and 30 pages of stuff I don't give a damn for?

So a big no from me... not that DC would care for what a longtime fan like me would be thinking...

You know, the timing and vaguery of this announcement makes me wonder if the new Adventure Comics might be the next weekly comic after Trinity.

Has DC said whether there will be a fourth weekly or not? If so, have they said what it will be about?

Just throwing this out there as a possibility....

Actually there might be something to this, I seem to remember back during one of the DC Nation panels Dan DiDio saying there were going to be two weeklies following Trinity and one of them being a famous title, so it could be Adventure which would also mean weekly Legion.

However what I think is more likely is that the rumours of Superman leaving Action for a while are true and he and Geoff Johns move over to Adventure and Action becomes a weekly again like it was in the Byrne days.

Hm, or perhaps a potential "Adventure Weekly" would break from the formula and rotate the lead feature from week to week. Legion one week, Aquaman the next, etc. This would allow one full creative team to potentially stay with the one feature throughout their lead's run.

I thought the Action Weekly was Action WEAKly. I remember Secret Six, Phantom Lady and Wild Dog. I really can't say I liked it at all, except for the price-48 pages for $1.50.

But it would bring dangerous shifts for sales of the magazine and be problematic for retailers as they would have to adjust their order depending on the contents of the issues.

I knew it was coming but was worried about how they would look.....


But come on.........


It's freaking Saturn Girl, Lightning Lad and Cosmic Boy.!!!!

On TV.


Yipeee!!!!!!!

OH MY GAWD!!!!!!!!!! ***LOVE*** it! LIVE-ACTION LEGION!!!! When does it air, I've got to clear my schedule!

Guess I'll be buying whatever season of SMALLVILLE on DVD this is, too...!

And y'know what? The jackets work GREAT!!!!!!

I just wish the Cosmic Boy guy didn't look stoned, or clueless or whatever that look is...

I think two threads got merged or something...

Anyways, Didio has said that there will be a weekly after Trinity, but that in won't be 52 issues.

I hadn't thought of Adv as that weekly, but that would be cool and the big splash that I think the Legion really needs.

As for his "old stars and new stars" quote, I just took that to mean we will see familiar faces as well as new characters (so not just the Legionnaires we know, but knew inhabitants of the 31st century).

But it's hard to tell. I'm still waiting to see if the rumors of a Legion combined from all three Legions is true or not. I don't mind characters like Gates and Xs being reintroduced, but I really don't want to see the threeboot version of Timber Wolf interact with the Levitz Light Lass and the PZH Karate Kid. You know, keep the originials the originals (and no Snakie!). I'm sure that is what will happen and there's nothing to worry about, but then again I thought they would at least let Shooter finish his first arc (and with minimal editorial interferance) and that didn't happen.

Ryan Kennedy, the actor that will be portraying Cosmic Boy in the next episode of Smallville, is an up-and-coming young actor up here in Canada. His grunge look is his staple trademark and I guess the creators of the show didn't want to change his look too drastically thus making him unrecognizable to the fans.
We all know that Rokk Krinn is squeaky clean cut in the comics but maybe they will explain this in the episode.... this could be Rokk's way of blending in to the many 21st century's looks so to speak.

Maybe Johns is acknowledging Rokk Krinn after Venado Bay after all. It would be a wise idea, probably his best one yet.

"his grunge look"...didn't that go out when ole kirky shotgunned himself?

Anyway, i hope its good. Found a website that shows smallville and i have been looking back at some of the eps. Really liked the Black Canary thing. Much better than the other show that made her into a teenager. So, since Johns is writing it, i look forward to the Legion show.

Hated that the legion cartoon was cancelled. I've only ever seen any of it on youtube, but i would have liked to.

The real problems with anthologies are loyalty and maintaining quality teams - it is too easy to farm work off to second-string talents than to keep first-stringers who usually would rather headline"regular" books.

The last DC anthology I enjoyed was the Prince Gavyn Starman run in Adventure 30idh years ago, but even that was dragged down by Plastic Man and later Aquaman.

Usually we get New Talent Showcase (called "No Talent Showcase" at the time), Action Comics Weakly, and the like.

On the other hand, Dark Horse Presents and Oni Double Feature did maintain high quality runs.

Alan Moore once commented that for British creators seeking to work in comics with grand ideas of writing sweeping epics starring all their favorites, having to start out doing 8-page stories in 2000 AD wasrather humbling - but good training, having to write beginnings, stories and resolutions in 8 pages.

Perhaps so many creators these days are so used to getting to go straight into Big sweeping Epics that they've lost touch with basic story. Aside from the recent Action arc and possibly L3W depending on how it goes, it seems to me the last decent multi-issue Legion story was way back in DnA. (Shooter is an improvement over Waid, but even so, it is hard to rationalize this story taking 14 issues)

Maybe a series of forced short-stories will rebuild talent and interest, rather than seeing lukewarm wanna-be-"epics" being churned out without rhyme or reason.

That's a really cool insight.

I remember in creative writing being taught about the challenge of writing verse in iambic pentameter and all that, and, while it was pretty much useless, since nobody uses it today, it seemed like the people who paid attention to that segment made much tighter free verse afterwards.

It seems that you've got to learn how to color *inside* the lines before you can really excell at busting out of them...

Which gives me something to retort to my boss next time he says 'think outside the box.' "How about you learn to think *inside* the box before coming out here and annoying the rest of us with your nonsense secondhand proverbs?"

Yanno, if I ever wanna get fired.

years ago in art school, we were taught to learn the rules and master them - once we did that we were allowed to break them.

Ok, I saw this posted on another board as spoilers from a Wizard interview with Dan Didio. I trust this poster well enough so I don't think this is wrong, but just want to let you all know I do not have a source to link to

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">According to the interview "We're launching a new Adventure Comics series and the first team and the first group in the first series of stories will be Mon-El and the Legionnaires."</span></span>

Love Lar, so I'm happy if the info is true!

And I agree with Kent and Set ~ master the basics, then write like cummings or paint like Picasso.

Maybe the lack of training to tighten work into good short stories first, is why so many of the 'epics' feel like just so much filler and wasted space.

However, after reading this thread again, I don't think I want an anthology.
I'd just like a return to the old Adventure format that I remember with a main and usually ongoing Legion story arc followed by a short story that highlighted one or so Legionnaires.

I really wouldn't like something that didn't relate with the Legion at all.

Then it is Legion v4 all over again? Now, we just have to restore maturity and boldness to editorial and...

My guess is a revisionist version of Adventure #300-305, how Mon-El was rescued from the Phantom Zone in the 30th/31st century and joined the the Legion. It's deja vu all over again -- but different.

At the risk of stating the obvious, the other "spoiler" here is that the Legion is not *the* star of new Adventure Comics, as Didio previously implied, but just the first of multiple features. How frequently and how long they'll appear in the title, and who the other homeless has-been stars will be, is anyone's guess at this point.

One thing is for sure -- Geoff Johns is not the Adventure writer. He gives his 2009 workload at Newarama , and in the aptly titled article "Future Uncertain for the Legion" , he says and I quote:
Translation: Johns has no idea when he'll get to work with the Legion again (after Superman: Secret Origins).

Nice going, Mr. Didiot. Thanks to you, things haven't looked more dismal for the LSH since it was evicted from the old Adventure Comics in 1969.

Yeah, that's a surprise.

Oh wait. No it isn't. It's like the exact opposite of a surprise...

Ever notice that you never see Dan Didio and Satan at the same time?

Quote

...Ever notice that you never see Dan Didio and Satan at the same time?

[shoots tea out nose again --for the second time this week]

Set, you need to stop caring so much about things. You'd be happy then. Like me.

LOL, Set, but Didio's too stupid to be Satan. Now George Bush on the other hand . . .

I think Set is on to something. Who's the other guy, Geoff Johns?

This IS all funny ~ the comments here.
Really, I love them.


But, I'm starting to get pissed (sorry, no other way to say it.)

I feel that DC has just used me.
All of these stories with Legionnaires in them.
Bits here and there, just so I buy the books, so I can know what's happening with the Legion.

And NOTHING is really happening.

They're going to keep me suckered in, buying books that don't really have much, if anything really, to do with my characters, my interests.

I'm about to get pretty grouchy myself!

Candle:

Quote

...They're going to keep me suckered in, buying books that don't really have much, if anything really, to do with my characters, my interests...

Which is exactly what they were doing twenty years ago, which was a major factor in my prolonged separation from mainstream comics. Not the only factor, of course-- but that's a whole 'nother thread.

Somehow, I doubt that most people bail;Otherwise, the Big Two would have to stop the bait-and-switch because they wouldn't be making any money.

The point is Dan DiDio has ran out of ideas and basically rests all his shots at Johns reviving anything he can't make work. Even though most of the times it simply doesn't happen because DC loves flip-flopping and doing nasty things (eg: Shooter) to whoever is NOT Johns.
So, until Johns finds time to work on the Legion, what we will see is testing grounds and things like ADV.
By the way, I just found out that ADV #0 is NOT simply the reprint, but rather a reprint plus 8 new pages with an unannounced team.

Yes, and in spite of denying it on Newsarama yesterday, Didio speaks of Mon-El and the Legion being the stars of Adventure Comics starting in March in the latest issue of Wizard.

Unless I misunderstood the interview

They said "Mon-El", not *shudder* "Valor".

So Adventure Comics will become a springboard type series which will feature a team or hero for a few issues first then send them on their merry way to some other forum to continue their adventures afterwards. And Monel plus the Legion will headline this new series? Sounds pretty good to me. It's a very shrewd way of forcing Superman-centric fans to sample the Legion all over again, and maybe fall in love with them like we all did.
You know what, why not? We've all been witnesses to reboots which did not work with a #1 issue start, so this would be a nice way to "edge" in a new generation of fans thus giving a new version (or amalgamated via Lo3W)the best possible chance at success.

Whether DC is operating via caution, logic or even laziness, I think this approach *could* be a vastly wiser move than simply launching a new #1.

...IF handled right.

In his Q&A on Newsaram DiDio was posed this:

18: Any more information available on Adventure Comics? Can you confirm or deny that it will be the vehicle for the Legion of Super-Heroes?

DD: I can confirm and deny – that’s even better. I will tell you only one thing about it - Adventure Comics #0, even though it is reprinting the first appearance of Superboy and the Legion of Super-Heroes, it will also have a six page “Omens and Origins” that will get everybody talking and address multiple questions that are out there right now.


So #0 is a 'must' folks

How am I supposed to tell my comic shop to order/hold only the Adventures that feature the Legion for me?

I hate this idea.

All the "Omens and Origins" issues in February 2009, of which Adventure #0 is one, will include a back-up story narrated by a rogue Guardian by the name of "Scar", and all portend DC's next big Summer "movie" event, Blackest Night.

Imo, DC should be paying *us* $1.00 each for reading 6 pages of advertising Hype.

EDIT: At best, we might find out which dead Legionnaires will show up in Blackest Night.

I definitely plan to ask my comic book shops guys if they saw a lot of people pick up the Legion origin that weren't already going to. What I mean is, will this really get *new* readers interested in the classic Legion story?

I know I'll buy it, but I basically have the thing memorized at this point.

I don't believe that reprinting the first legion story will boost sales. I mean, let's be honest... the first story is not among the best of Legion stories, we all kind of like it but... for mostly nostalgic reasons, don't we??? Don't we????

Or is this considered blasphemy on this board ???

By getting the monthly Previews I for my part am exactly planning which issues I will be getting three months in advance. I don't have a chance to get to the shop regularly, so that's the only option not to miss something important. I'm quite optimistic that Legion content will be mentioned in the Previews.

Well, the only way we can know is if Legion Worlders go into comic shops and ask the guys working there (while taking notes mind you) who exactly was buying the issue. Then we need to cross reference our notes, do the same each month, and trend and develop the numbers over time in an actuarial model to come up with our answer.

But the story is pretty groovy, so yes, it is blasphemous to talk bad about it . Ten post demirits for you Chem.

It would be more fun if everyone practiced talking like Comic Book Guy from you-know-where. Then we could each write our own blasphemous, totally-off-canon version of how the team got started and do a sort of flash-mob performance piece where we each stand outside our favorite comic shop and read our version out loud until the cops come to take us away.

I only know of one comic shop near me, and it's teeming with stick-shaped art farts who wear black all the time. So that should make the performance doubly cool. I think I'll be fully-dressed, but covered in a giant mylar bag, too. That'll look awesome on the eleven o'clock news.

I actually am near a really great comic book store that is a well-run business, friendly and open to newcomers. Its like going into a CD store.

Then there's a second comic book store I go to every once in awhile to see if they have back issues I need. Its like some weird guy's basement. The place is a dump. Boxes everywhere, etc.--definitely not a business. Random weird comic book TV shows from the 70's on TV. Just a creepy find, very unwelcoming. Those are the kind of places hurting the comic book industry since the major companies are so intent on relying on the direct market.

Ah, CK, I shouldn't bellyache. The store in question is actually very nice looking. I've only been in there to pick up bags so I could help mr_cleome ebay some stuff that he wasn't planning on reading again.

It's just that it's so... alternative-looking. I have this knawing fear that if I asked where the superhero stuff was, I'd be ejected. Or at least they'd make me pay a fine or something.

The store I go to is called the Comics Dungeon. The people there are very nice. The place is only a little dungeon-y, which gives it character. I prefer that over the bland strip-mallish places. I'll have to go talk to them about what I should do about getting the Legion appearances I want. This is why I started the AR Legion Appearances 2009 thread.

Rest easy, CK. I'm with you. I don't even especially like the story. In fact I think it's pretty lame. There's no way anyone who isn't a total Legion geek is going to buy it.

Don't know if it's Adventure Comics related (which Didio said would feature Mon-El and the Legionnaires, but it doesn't seem to be permanent), but there were more Legion references in this week's Action Comics...

Tellus reappears (and it appears he's going to be needed) and Supergirl's mother reveals that they want to free the other bottled cities... which include the last remnants of the planets of Braal, Winath and Tharr...

Well, I know it's another AR question and I know that this is the Adventure Comics thread, but... which Action issues should I be looking for next to the Legion six-parter? #850 had Mon-El, I missed that one, but I heard there was more of them meanwhile...

The one right after the Legion six-parter, definitely. Had a lot of Lightning Lad in it.

which issues do LL appear in it? I must have missed it and also I read that Tellus also re-appears...is it in Action Comics or New Krypton series? which part?

I don't consider Adventure Comics #247 to be a particularly great story...but evidentally a good many people did, which is what lead to the story(and the Legion itself) being more than just the throwaway/oneoff it was intended to be.

It's not very good story...


That said, to me it's the most important story in Legion history. There would be no Legion without it.


You know how Lightning Lad, Saturn Girl, and Cosmic Boy saving RJ Brande is supposed to be some essential element of the Legion? "Oh we've got to have that or else it won't truly be the Legion" say the writers...

Poppycock.

Saving RJ Brande isn't an important story...it was more or less a retcon or untold tale finally told. In fact that story wasn't added until the team had been around nearly a decade...it was never important or essential to the Legion, and the Legion certainly got no boost in popularity because of it.


Adventure Comics #247 OTOH...was and is important. More important than the in continuity origin of the team. Why? Because it was the real first appearance of the team.


Did you guys know that at one point prior to the Crisis in the 80's, Adventure Comics #247 was the most valuable comic of the Silver Age?

More valuable than the first appearance of Flash, the JLA, Spiderman and the FF...and the early appearances of the Legion were comparable in price and desirability to the early Marvels as well...

That Superman retcon(which eliminated Adv #247 from continuity) was a killer and it litrerally destroyed the collector value of the early Legion stories in a way and to a level I've never seen duplicated in the comic collecting market.

It is an important story, if not a great one...and it's also probably one of the most oft homaged covers in comics history along with Action Comics #1.

Tellus appears in one drawing of Action Comics 872, part of the New Krypton storyline, so not worth buying the issue for that, but it's definitely setting up something, so is the mention of Winath, Braal and Tharr.

Lightning Lad was in Action Comics 864, the epilogue to the Superman and Legion storyline, where he meets Batman and where they get the bodies of Una and Karate Kid back.

Oh my god! And I don't have that one! They didn't give a hint in the Previews that there is so much Legion in #864.... oh my, I got the whole Countdown series but not that rather significant issue...

Of course it is important. My question was: Will it make a new reader get interested in the Legion TODAY? And I doubt that. A new reader won't care if this story was important because it put the Legion on the map. He just will read the story and say... "wow that's cheesy" or something like that
I sincerely doubt that a new reader will say "hey that's so cooool, I have to dig up all the other Legion appearances, starting with the 12 Legion archives".

And why would they do this reprint thing if not to get new readers? Every fan already should have some version of #247, there have been enough reprints since 1958...

Lightning Lad is in the whole issue. I almost missed buying it too at the time.

That is truly weird. I knew of specific events causing comics to rise in value (recent example: Spider-Man 3 caused the value of the first black costume issue to increase), but the other way round is strange. Then again, I'm not a collector.

Well I agree with you on some of that. I don't think the story is a particularly good choice to entice new readers to the book. Then again, they already have a bunch of new readers from LO3W(at least when compared to other Legion series) that are pretty much unfamiliar with the beginnings of the team.

I personally get no thrill out of reading the story since I have read it many times and have many reprints of it, but I am excited about Lopresti's reinterpretation of the cover.


As for what will grab new fans, I am sure DC would love to know that...


You know what would excite me?

A comic under 2 bucks. That would excite me a great deal. And if not that...one that is actually worth the 3 dollar price tag most of them have.

Ya...that sort of stuff tends to happen much more often with Marvel than DC...


If you are ever in a comic or book store and come across an early 80's edition of the Overstreet Price Guide, check out the price on ADV 247 and compare it to the other key Silver Age titles...chances are it will be the most valuable one.

Basically, Pre Crisis, the most valuable comic of the Silver Age contest was a 3 book race between the Showcase issue that introduced Barry Allen, the Amazing Adult Fantasy issue that intrduced Spiderman, and the Adventure issue that introduced the Legion. Those 3 books took turns holding the title of the most valuable, but more often than not it was Adventure Comics #247 that held that title in the early 80's.

And yes it is unheard of for a key comic to just fall off the collector map like that, but that is indicative of the destruction wreaked upon the Legion continuity IMHO. Adventure Comics #247 is still basically at it's early 80's price level, while the others have gone up with the price of inflation(although Spiderman is now far and away the most valuable)...

And I'm not a collector anymore either...but I was back then, that's how I know Adv 247 was so sought after. DC even placed an add once in their comics pointing out that Adventure 247 was the most valuable of the Silver Age, or maybe it was an "Ask the Answer Man" column...either way, I know they did it with Action 1 being the most valuable of the Golden Age and I'm pretty sure they did it with the Adv 247 and the Silver Age as well.

After the Crisis, the demand just wasn't the same for those old issues anymore because they were untethered from any relevant continuity.

Barry Allen being dead also probably contributed to Spidey taking the lead he now has...but back before the Crisis DC held their own and usually won, the prized issues of the Silver Age competition.

Actually, it seems there is an extra 8-page story with an unknown team of creators that sets up the ADV #1 stories from then on.
I'd bet that Johns is taking the idea (from way back then - Giffen on Invasion or is it from before that?) that Mon-El is going to be the "seeder" of planets.
And, yes, nobody is buying ADV #0 if not for being a Legion geek. Sales were absolutely in line with the average sales of Legion books of nowadays.

So do you guys think this new version of Adventure Comics (to be launched by #0) be ala Brave and the Bold where the stories are broken down or done in arcs (presumably for the TP)? Basing it on Didio's comment it appears that Mon-el & the LSH kick it off then...somebody else (new character/s, new creative team) takes over?

Taking a step back it seems that the Legion is playing a key role everywhere else but their own title in what looks to be a momentum-building exercise. What prompted me to say that are their past appearances in...

- JLA & JSA (Lightning Saga)
- JSA (...by keeping Starman around)
- Countdown (albeit just KK & Una in that pointless weakly)
- the Action Comics arc (...what are they calling that one?)

...then...

- currently in Lo3W
- Superman: Secret Origins (?) mini-series by Johns-Frank
- Adventure Comics

Guess the even bigger question is what happens after Adventure? Didio seemed to hint in an interview that the LSH will float around when he said to watch our for the team in their next "appearances" after Lo3W, not in their own book or even an ongoing monthly/mini-series. I think they're trying to weave the LSH back into the Superman tapestry in the hope of restoring the magic that it had in the past.

Y'know, in reading Igee's comments and questions, several things occurred to me.

First, although we as Legion fans did lose a lot this year (the animated show and comic, the Legion monthly's cancellation was announced), in looking at Igee's list, things could be worse.

When the cancellation of the Threeboot was announced, it looked as the Legionnaires would be on indefinite hiatus until DC decided IF they would reboot once again. I know we speculated here that they MIGHT get another book by summer. I assume (yeah, I know) that Adventure will be an ongoing monthly as a tryout for the Johnsboot Legion to see how they sell. In today's economy, they probably won't stay with a sinking ship too long. Also, for the Legion to be in so many books, like him or loathe him, Johns is putting them out there.

Second, at least Lo3W is generating some buzz. I know DiDio said they are trying to coordinate it with the end of the Final Crisis monthly, but it's almost like a TV show no one cares about, that is on Sunday at 10 pm. No wait, Wednesday at 11pm. No, Friday at 9pm. Oh, wait, baseball playoffs-we'll pre-empt it for 3 weeks. If it still manages to hang on to a fan basis by the last issue (supposedly) in March, there may be some hope.

Third, even though the stories have been disruptive (Lightning Saga), at least there was an appearance, and I have enjoyed watching the Star Man character in JSA. They have kept me guessing as to why he is there, besides the sloppy joes on Wednesdays, I mean.

Was it a great anniversary year? No. Could it have been better? Absolutely. Could it have been worse? Believe it or not, yes. At least the team(s) is generating some buzz and attention.

Where do we go from here? To the future, on month at a time.

The problem with this approach is that only people who buy the Superman titles will get to see the Legion and - If the Tellus appearances are anything to go by - even then you have to know who the characters are to get excited.

In the late 50s/early 60s when this approach was first used, the dialogue was very simple and able to announce the presence of the Legion as they flew in to save the day at the last minute. Such story-telling doesn't work today.

A good run in their own series, with a top rank writer and artist is the only way to restore the Legion to anything like its former glory.

Didio has done another flip-flop. The Legion is *not* going to launch Adventure Comics. They won't appear until later.

Newsarama

"Oh – and one last thing that I wanted to mention before we go – the content for Adventure Comics #1 has changed – I think it might be out there that Mon-el is in issue #1. The reality is, that the storyline that we were going to put in as the launch of Adventure Comics has actually moved into Superman comics. While the Legionaries will be appearing in Adventure, it won’t be until the second arc of the series."

I wish everyone -- except Dan Didio -- a Merry Christmas.

When you've been beaten and bruised so badly even the lightest kick hurts.

Pretty lame. They release Adventure #0 as a teaser, reprinting #247 and including an Origins and Omens backup, since the Legion are supposed to be starring in the first arc, and now DC's pushed them back again??? How patient are we supposed to be here?

You all realize with the delays in FC:Lo3W and Final Crisis, DC could have had Shooter finish his 16 issue arc with the current series before canceling it?

Reminder to DiDio: My expendable income is getting smaller and smaller each month. I really want to give you my money, but you've got to be putting out the books I want to read...

At the current rate of pushing-stuff-back, Shooter could be writing a book about the grown up children of the current Legionnaires, aging them in real-time, before the vaporware from Didio materializes in the real world.

They say you can't go back. If you're Dan Didio, apparently you've got some problems going *forward,* too...

Well, I read through Newsarama's "20 Questions for Didiot" article and from the looks of it "Adventure Comics" isn't going to be a home for the Legionnaires. It rather looks like a comic that'll serve as a department store window where characters will have their 6 issues in the sun then they'll probably decide if there's merit in pursuing either...

a) another 6-issue arc somewhere
b) a mini-series
c) a 1-shot
d) euthanasia

Also, love it or hate it, the only thing that seems to be keeping the Legion afloat right now is Geoff Johns...who seems to have kept the Didio torpedo away from completely sinking the LSH.

Personally, I don't mind him handling the Legion. Heck, the guy seems enamored with them with his use of Starman-Thom in JSA, his involvement in both the Lightning Saga & Legion-Action Arc as well as Lo3W. He's even writing (if I'm not mistaken) the Legion appearance in Smallville-TV.

>sigh<

As AFOB wrote, love it or hate it, it seems we will be taking it one month at a time from here on out. :-\

Legion in Superman, isn't that a GOOD thing?

Won't they get more exposure in that book? Of course, there's nothing wrong with being in a #1 issue and it does kind of make the Adv #0 think a big "huh???" but still, Monel will be in the first arc, correct?

I'm thinking that the LSH in Adventure delay is due to FC and L3W delays. Adventure is already listed on DC's subscription page, so it seems like its launch is already scheduled. Perhaps the 1st Legion arc in Adventure is dependant on the ends of both FC and L3W and those series won't be finished before Adventure #1 comes out, hence the push back.

On a tangent, one thing I find curious as I get back into regular comic reading after 20 years is the sheerly massive number of issue delays. Back in the day, montly comics came out MONTHLY like clockwork. There was none of this "oh, we're not putting it out this month because it's not ready". Well, geez, people. It's called a schedule and they're called deadlines. In any other business, if you can't meet your deadlines, you don't have a job. Someone needs to start cracking the whip on these people.

What's really stupid is that they are putting out Adventure #0 with a reprint of the Legion's first appearance, and then following it up with...something other than the Legion! Brilliant! What losers they are. All of DiDio's efforts to coordinate and sync up the DCU have been utter failures.

I can't understand why Dan DiDio still has a job. He just has no idea what he's doing.

1. Have TPTB said what is "replacing" the LSH in the first Adventure Comics arc?

2. One of the things that I think explains the low number of comics sold each month compared to 20 years ago is that so many books do not come out on schedule, ie., still waiting for the last issue of 'Planetary'. At some point most reasonable people will find something more reliable on which to spend their entertainment money.

Yeah, in me re-familiarization with the world of comics, I quickly starting to believe that *nothing* comes out on time. When I was actively reading 20someodd years ago, a monthly book came out like clockwork. There was never a delay (that I can remember or was aware of) with COIE or any other series. What's so hard about having a deadline and sticking to it? Maybe they should worry less about umpteenbillion variant covers (something that I don't think ever happened way back when) and worry about getting the actual books out on time. Out in the regular business world, if someone kept missing their deadlines, they wouldn't have a job for very long.

The main problem both companys have these days is that neither can do a big event book right and it keeps messing up the rest of the line. Either they have slow artist or writers or they start making changes in the end which throws everything off kilter.

That and the fact the Didiot is just about the worse EIC from any company I have ever seen. He just has no idea what he is doing.

The sollicits for Lo3W #5 do say that the story sets up everything for Adventure Comics #1

I wonder if those solicits were written before Didio decided that Adventure #1 would be Legion-less?

Or is this more Didio-speak for, 'Since Prime is dismembering the majority of the Legion in his bloody climactic rampage in Lo3W #5, this nicely sets up Adventure #1 to not have any Legionnaires in it...'

I guess Adventure #1 will be about a new hero called "Didioman". This super new superhero will be working as a misunderstood newspaper editor - let's call him Dan - on daytimes, trying to fix things that have gone wrong on his newspaper for years.

But in the nights, Didioman is creeping out of his cradle and wrecks everything that Dan tried to fix over the day - and some more, so every morning Dan wakes up, everything is even worse than the day before, and he just can't make out why!!!

This will be a very tragic storyline written by fan favorites like Judd Winnick or McDuffie. Maybe some fantastic artwork by Bill Jaaska or Benitez from Titans. Sales will probably start high cause a #1 issue is always worth its weight in gold and go down quickly.

At #7 the Legion sixparter will start, but sales have already floundered so badly that a cancellation is due to #10. So the writer has to cut back his story into four issues. The new Adventure Comics will be cancelled, and TPTB will come to the conclusion:

The Legion just doesn't sell. Reboot them. This time, try them as Legion babies...

Or release an All-Star Legion series written by Frank Miller in which they're all sex-crazed maniacs and they talk for 5 issues in the Legion cruiser...

Isn't that the Howard Chaykin version ?

in the Chaykin version there's more types of oral activity than just talking.

Y'know, we should really stop giving DC ideas.

[forehead, meet keyboard]

while i'm not necessarily remembering delays with miniseries back in the day (though i'm certain this did happen occasionally), there were certainly lots of issues related to deadlines - the difference within the past 20+ years or so is that comics are now very rarely done-in-ones as they were in the past. When the "Dreaded Deadline Doom" came up for the series regular creators in the early to mid 1980s (and before), an editor would stick in a standalone fill-in issue and still ship an issue on time. But do that today to meet a shipping deadline, and beside interrupting a 6 part story arc, and pissing off the readers, the publisher would also have to accept returns because the contents wouldn't be by the same creators or feature the same story as originally solicited. Delays are annoying, but I'd rather see a quality product rather than some lame inconsequential story that's been sitting in an editors desk collecting dust for months.

The credits for the "Origin and Omens" backup tale named:

* Adventures Comics #0, written by Geoff Johns with art by Francis Manapul.

Johns was obvious, FM returning is a unexpected surprise.

Geoff Johns seems very involved with the Legion with Lo3W, Superman: Secret Origins (right title?) where the Legion gets tied back to the Superman mythos...and now this.

Maybe a Johns-penned Legion series may not be too far-off...?

Francis! That makes me extremely happy!

Yeah me too! He was the saving grace for me on the threeboot--I'd love it if he stayed involved with the Legion in whatever form its in.

In this week's DC Nation Didio is pushing the Omens and Origins event in February as important to showing and explaining some of the changes wrought by Final Crisis. He has a checklist of all the Omens and Origins titles and goes out of his way to reccomend Adventure Comics #0 if you want a "real big surprise".

Hmmm...any word on that January Superman trial? Superboy(the current Superman as a boy) is going to be appearing in a new(or at least a modern retelling) DC story for the first time in a looooong time.

And I notice the DC has finally given us an approximation of when the final issues of LO3W will be coming out(end of March).


Or maybe it could just be they are going to announce that Geoff Johns is the new Legion writer. I notice he's added an "Adventure Comics starting in 2009" to his Legion of 3 Worlds subforum at the Comic Bloc. I don't think he'd add that title to that subforum if it wasn't going to be an ongoing gig for him....as he tends to only have titles he is writing listed in his forums.

The Superman trial is again postponed. And it's just that Geoff is (yawn) writing the story. It's so obvious that Dan Didio trusts Johns to solve every single hack job of mismanaging properties that he can ruin every single thing (LSH #50) just to prove his point.

Or they reached a working agreement with the family and are keeping it under wraps. I do notice Final Crisis number 3 got a substantial move up in release, with all Perez art...those flexible delays I was talking about earlier when people were saying it is Johns and Perez behind the delays are amazing are they not?

And on this my dear Ricardo...I must disagree 100%. Geoff Johns is extremely exclusive with which titles go under his name at the Comic Bloc and which ones don't. He might put a co-creator on the same character under his name if it's a story or character he has extensive control over and that's about it. You notice there's a not a one that he's not writing under his name there right now and he makes it clear when his last issue of JSA will be in the forum header.

He doesn't say Adventure Comics #0...he says Adventure Comics coming in 2009.

I mean why would he make it look like he's going to write Adventure at his forums when he's not...it's not like it's going to help sales given the traffic at that forum, all it does is hurt his credibility, and rep if it turns out to be crap.

So I'm gonna disagree and say he will be the new writer for the Legion. I don't think he'd have the title included that way in his forums if it was just one issue or something he wasn't closely affiliated with.

And he doesn't put one shots there either...there is no Solomon Grundy forum there.


To tie it all together...I think Johns was waiting to see if he could write Superman/boy and the Legion, the only version he said he wanted to write(and wisely so based on the fan thrashing every other creator has gotten that has tried to do it otherwise) before commiting to it...and I think that announcement is forthcoming.


Well, yeah plus he sells well most of the time. If he didn't sell it wouldn't matter.

60,000 > 22,000

Superboy, Johns IS writing ADV #0. So everything you said is a moot point at this time. It's clear that Dan will wait for whatever time he needs just to get him to relaunch the Legion.
As for sales figures, it doesn't really matter at this point. It's clear that Shooter's fate was decided when, at the very first issue of his run, he was trampled by something called The Lightning Saga (probably one of the worst Legion stories ever) and later by Legion of 3 Worlds.

I agree. I grew up reading the Cockrum, then Grell and then Sherman/Nasser LSH, that's the one I love and miss. That's part of the reason I've not been around here at all in the past couple of years. I just lost interest. It wasn't that the storytelling and visuals were bad, they were fine but it wasn't the Legion I knew and loved. It was like an alternate universe of sorts. This is an opportunity for DC to make this all right again, hope they follow through.

I'll put it this way. Why in the heck do they think that rewriting origins, changing costumes or even skin colors of well loved icons is going to boost sales?? Besides varying degrees of costume upgrades Supes, Bats and WW are basically the same and are still popular.

I do know that the LSH at times have gotten the raw end of the deal with writers and artists that have come on board with either no interest (just a job) which was very much reflected in the story telling and visuals. Others have come in with the INTENTION of making them great but their vision was not up to par with the fan base expectations. Then imaginative folks like Barry come in and try to change things up to make it more exciting but in the long run ... we miss the originals and who could blame us??

How many times can your retell the same story and keep it exciting?? Well I'm 48, I've been reading and collecting since I was 9 years old, so about 40 years and I've seen the same story retold over and over and over again in books like the JLA, X-Men, Avengers ...... on and on and on. If there are strong artists and writers that are good wordsmiths with vision then they could take the entire run of Adventure Comics, revamp them for todays readership, new art and digital color effects and have some darned good books that would sell just fine.

Just sayin'.....

Cham

Good to see you again CB!

Welcome back, Cham!

just wanted to remind everyone the book will be out tomorrow! I think you guys might be pleasantly surprised!

Thanks for the reminder, hope your right about the pleasantly surprised part. I definently am looking forward to it. Thanks again for your efforts on the series.

Ugg...i'll be waiting quite some time for it, I have my comics set to ship when my bill reachs $100 and considering the small number of titles I get these days, thats gonna take awhile.

Oh well, I guess I'll have to peek in here for some spoilers.

OK....pleasantly surprised about what? A reprint of Adventure Comics # 247, plus a back-up story that has nothing whatsoever to do with the Legion? The Scarred Guardian of the Universe, Luthor, Brainiac, a panel of Kon-El?

The cover was a nice re-interpretation of Adventure # 247's cover, but, no offense intended, nothing to get excited about.

I think Francis means Kon-El.

I would have loved to see an fjm cover on this at least. And, sorry, but I was disappointed. I read SECRET SIX first with it's recap O&O and was salivating at the thought of a Manapul drawn Legion origin. Sadly it was just more World of Krypton promotion.

er...or apparently not. someone's gotta be happy about it... anyone? anyone? (crickets) oh well...

The art was great! I'm happy if it's a sign that you'll be working on one of the Superman books!

Maybe we'll get more Manapul Legion as guest stars?

spill the bean! or I will go after you at the Wonder Con in SF if you go there. (Just kidding, I will ask you to draw me a picture of Emerald Empress, even you never drew her before.)

Sorry to be so negative, Mr. Manapul. The art was certainly well-done, but it really had very little original Legion material, if not none at all.

If it makes you feel any better, the Titans fans are probably thrilled with this story.

The relationship between Legion fans and Kon is quite a bit more contemptuous...at best it could be described as lukewarm. True he was a member of the ZH Legion, but it wasn't really at a point that was considered the highpoint of that series.

Add to that that there is kind of a rivalry between the Legion and the Titans with the Legion winning the popularity battle in the first couple of decades of the teams' existence, and the Titans winning ever since(and getting the favorable treatment from DC)...and well, seeing our great artist on what was really more of a Titans story could be kind of salt in the wounds to some(but probably not many).

FWIW, I enjoyed the story(and the development), although I wasn't expecting that to be the surprise in the issue or what you were drawing. I was expecting something more Legion related like I imagine most of the Legion fans were, and I was looking forward to you doing a version of the other Legion and sort of spanning the eras in reverse. Truth be told, some of us were probably hoping you were going to be the artist for the Legion on the Adventure run. You'd have been the first artist to jump Legion boots.


It would've been a neat paradox...you just got done working on the newest version of the Legion with it's most Legendary old writer, and then you'd be doing what was more of an old version of the Legion with it's newest writer...

well, if i put on my thinking hat, i see an old story about SUPERBOY AND THE LEGION....

and then... i see someone bringing superboy back to life.

come on guys, you don't have to be a precog here.

i'm totally excited for this!!! the art was amazing, and brainiac is totally scary.

as a freakish reader of old things with a really nerdy podcast and psychotic love of certain green scientists...

page 5, panel 3, originally those guys in the foreground were colored all in one single "blue" tone. now there's a green guy with blonde hair.

now, in the present, we have a brainiac on the loose! and a new villain!! i havea feeling these things will COLLIDE, this is going to be awesome!!

Awful story and further proof that Legion is going to be at most a secondary team to Superman (Johns real desire).
This was definitely not a Legion story, but another lukewarm Johns job to not let go of his villains (Superboy-Prime, Mongul and now Brainiac). Talk about overusage.
I still want to know what a Legion story in Adventure Comics has to do with a fill-in Action Comics story. Except for Manapul's art (quite different here, but still very good - except he is not working on a good story, which should have been Legion 50), this was a very useless 8-page waste that could be better served as one of those "coming attactions" pages Johns is so fond of. Make it half page of that.
My guess? Last minute job to fill in for another DC Editorial screw-up - that is: pushing Adv Comics to June with a cover art that looks pretty much like Manapul's new style. And no trace pf a single Legion character, by the way. Which -oh! - contradicts Dan Didio's speech on how Adv Comics would feature the most "identifiable characters associated with that title". But then, his word means nothing these days: he said yesterday on Newsarama that DC is commited to releasing books on time, but they will not allow for substandard material. Ha!

RIP, Legion. It was good while it lasted. Meanwhile, let's have a toast for GLC of 3 Worlds. Oh, and I hate Kon-El. I don't like Superboy, as some of you know know, but Kon-El is even worse because he is a second-rate substitute to a concept that is completely dated.

Indeed, and it didn't do anything to make me want to pull Adventures Comics on my pull list. I think it's safe to say that most of us were expecting something more Legion and less Luthor.

It could still be the case,but if it was a tease of things to come with a potential Superboy return, it failed with me on a Legion level.

I haven't gotten this yet so I don't know what the back up is, except that Kon-El is back! Which makes me happy (so nyeah to all you nay-sayers).

However, I don't think he should be in the Legion. For one, there would be too much expectation that he should be like Clark-Superboy, instead of who he is. Secondly, Legion writers seem to hate him (I'm looking at you DnA, and Giffen). Probably because he ISN'T Clark and that is the Superboy they are most used to and therefore see Kon, not as his own character, but rather a pale and pathetic version of the "real" Superboy.

Also, not a big fan of John's take on Kon, he made him too emo and whiney. Kon was always a guy who would pick himself no matter how many times he got knocked down, he screwed up a lot, but his heart was always in the right place and he always tried to make up for his mistakes, but I didn't see that in Johns run and certainly not in his Legion appearance.

Besides, he doesn't belong with the original Legion, if he hangs with any legion, it should be the post-zero hour Legion, I really don't need him hanging with a bunch of adults.

But if we don't get any new Legion stuff I'll be bummed, I was looking forward to seeing THAT (as I have ADV 247 in various reprints) more than anything else. Even more than Kon's return because, again, I didn't really like how Johns wrote him.

After reading the epilogue at the end of this book I am trying very hard not to get too worked up about it. Very tantalizing possibilities there, but this could all just be one big red herring.
The thought of bringing Kon-el back from the dead seems, to me, to cheapen his heroic sacrifice with his too-early demise in Crisis.
It was sudden and jarring and made it that much more important.

Would it be total retribution to have Kon come back and kick Prime's ass? Well yeah, but it wouldn't be original and would be kind of a hollow anti-climax in my opinion.
I can however see them going in that direction since reading this short story (nice work from FJM by the way!), and after reading Lo3W #3, but I certainly hope they don't do this.

I will suspend finally criticism until I've read the finished product of coarse, heck it could be great if handled properly. At this point I do not see it as the best ending for Lo3W and then the begininning of the new Adventure comic in June...
We'll see.

the blurb for Adv #1 in the back: I assume the artwork is the cover? that is Thom Kallor and a hand with a Legion ring on isn't it?

Yep, it is indeed Starman and a hand with a legion ring.

Plus a caped blob (Mon-el?) and a blackend blob (Kon-el?)

And there seems to be a character that could be a "resurrected" Black lantern.

The "bringing back Superboy" thing could only be for Blackest Night. After all, the Black Lanterns already feature Earth 2 Superman and Martian Manhunter, and Scar is linked to the Black lanterns.

The story itself was a good one- we LSH readers were led to expect something a little more in the way of some idea of the future direction for the title *we* love...which *isn't* Superboy or Superman or JLA or Flash or Green Lantern. It's the Legion of Super-Heroes.

Ths story is still awful BUT, if some things from L3W are any indication, there is a reason Kon-El appeared in this story which ties him to what Johns wants to do with the Legion.

Re: Adventure Comics #0...

:rolleyes:

I'm going to submit my thoughts on this issue in quick point-form so that I can move on and forget I ever read it. Or wasted money on it.

Goods -

* The Cover
* Francis' art was OK. Nice, but not as nice as I was expecting after seeing some beautiful previews of his work on an upcoming Superman/Batman arc. Maybe it was the colors?
* Nice to see the origin story again for new readers, even if I'm not one of them.

Bads -

* The complete waste of any long-suffering Legion-fan's time that was that back-up tale! 5 pages of Luthor and Brainiac squabbling over left-over 'New Krypton' plot threads is not something I call "exciting".
* The "return" on the last page. Talk about a let-down!?! Geoff and Francis tease us that there's a big/pleasant surprise to be had this issue and it turns out to be Captain Obvious' maybe/kinda/sorta return-from-the-dead at a time when every other DCU character is coming back from the dead too anyway - from Barry and Bart to the whole damn Black Lantern Corps.
* The next-issue blurb that clearly shows that this is not going to be a Legion book but rather a Superman-Family book that the Legion might occasionally guest-star in. So after Lo3W is done we really are stuck with no on-going Legion book!

I've been trying to wave the DC flag for all my disillusioned brethren on this board but after this dud story even I'm beginning to crumble. Soon I'll be starting an "I Hate DC" thread in Gym'lls to go with my "I Heart DC" one!

We're must likely in for Adventure Comics featuring Superboy and the Legion, after an arc that brings bank Kon-El and then shunts him permenatly into the future.

I like Kon-El, but he's an ensemble character for me, and his interactions with Bart, Tim and Cassie are a huge part of what make him cool.

Superboy / man never seemed to have *friends* that he could laugh with. Kon-El seems much more 'human' and easier to identify with, and I'm a little concerned that flinging him into the 31st century, amidst a group of people who are already friends, will throw him out of his element. A good writer will be able to work with that, but a bad one will just have the team *say* that they're all friends, and never actually *show* that, leaving it feeling hollow.

good news......Geoff and Francios will continue to work on Legion in Adventure Comics!!! Here's the link -

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=19893

scroll down to the middle one -

There is some issue related to Mon-El too.

Yeah, it also says that there's going to be a "lead" character in Adventure. I hope that doesn't mean that the Legion is going to be playing second fiddle to some version of Superman/Boy/whatever. Rrrrrr... I simply don't know how much more I can stand.

(Side note - I love how they've decided to take Superman out of his own books for a year. They've really given up on the old idea that every comic is someone's first comic, haven't they? I guess it isn't often true anymore, but it's still a good guiding principle.)

From the interview
Adventure Comics Starring Starman and the Legion of Super-Heroes?

Darn, I wish I would have clicked on this first as this thread already covered quite a bit of the Adventure info I posted in the NYCC thread.

The only thing I have to add is that I am almost certain that is not Mon-El on the cover of Adventure since he's going to be the lead in Action and Robinson has said he will be going into the zone during his arc in Action.

So since this is a Superman related title and assuming that any future stories of Mon-El will be Legion stories...

Let's guess the obvious candidates for who the caped figure might be...


1. Kal-L, he might be coming back in the Blackest Night. If he does, I seriously hope DC doesn't plan on leaving him some disciple of the undead...as Kal-L deserves better than that.

2. Superboy(Superman when he was a boy) - with it being blacked out because DC still doesn't know if they can do it. Keep in mind...Johns said the stories will take place in Superman's time, the Legion's time, and a third time if possible....there aren't many other third times there could be in a Superman centric title.

3. Superboy Prime...the obvious choice, especially when taking into account the dimensional wall shattering effect where that sillhouette is punching. You guys know what Prime's punches do.

Hmmm... Francis drawing Geoff's stories in Adventure Comics!?!? That seems like...pretty good...news. Except, Dan DiDio is bound to say something that will harsh the mellow, like the 3rd time will be Legion: The Golden Years, where the Legion are Octagenarians living in a trailer park in Florida, and the stories focus on threats like the evil grocery store manager who is refusing to honor double coupons...

(veryvery, I promise I'm not trying to take your spot as uber poster, but it kind of looks that way!)
I kinda get the feeling Adventure may be a $3.99 book, given so many characters which may or may not interact. Interesting that the marquis is not there. "Adventure Comics starring...?"

It seems that Francis' "new style" may be due to the fact he is his own inker apparently. Whether or not he does that on a full book is unknown.

As for the blacked out characters, in Newsarama, Johns says

Here's a link to a large version of the cover.

Given the timing of this book coming out the same time as Lo3W #3, I don't think there's any question the center figure is Kon-el.

The other one? Kal-L maybe?

The hand on Starman's shoulder appears to be male.

I thought the story was ok, but very predictable: Oh, yeah, Brainiac is under Luthor's total contol. Rigggghhhht.

Set, I have to disagree with you somewhat:
Now, granted, I'm thinking of the rare Christmas and similar stories where Phantom Girl seemed only too happy to welcome him to the 30th century. He was better friends with Mon-el and Ultra Boy because they were closest to being his equals, but no one ever said "I can't be close to Mon-el, he's too powerful." I think Johns has gone out of his way to make him seem like he felt a sense of belonging. Remember the scene in the fortress from the Lightning Saga? (Yeah, I know, but I LIKED IT-sue me.) What a fondness Superman has when he says "They were my friends." And what a smile when he said "Every single one of them could fly." You may say this is Johns retconning, but I never got a feeling any different. Did we see him laughing a lot with them? Maybe not, but as with any team/person, we never see EVERY time they were together. Heck, even the Bible says "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written."

That's one of the things that is so great about comics to me: there are always '"Untold Stories of..."

As for Kon-el, I only read about him around the couple of years after the "Death of Superman." He annoyed the crap out of me. So arrogant and reckless, and the outfit, uggh. I never really knew him during the later years when the Kents and Supes got him straightened out. I can't say I really know wnough about him to say if he deserves a shot to be a Legionnaire or not, or how out of place he would be.

As usual, we will wait and see what "Adventures" the future holds.

Aw, we love you too AFOB. Even more if you promise us beer.

(snip)




Writer: Harvey Pekar

Artist: Robert Crumb

yep I will be inking along with washes both the cover and the interior of the book.

That is extremely good news!
Francis, how far ahead is the planning on Adventure? Are you still working on #1 or 3 or what? Just wondering if it will stay on schedule.

Can you tell us if it a is a regular sized book or a Final Crisis size-number of pages-wise?

And while I'm at it, do you get to the states much? Any chance you'd be at Heroes Convention in Charlotte,NC?

It's great to hear that the end of the series isn't the end of Francis' experience with the Legion.

And while we're at it Francis, who are the blacked out figures?

And did you like drawing Krypto(the best dog a Superboy ever had)?

So if FJM draws the Legion in Adventure...that makes him the only artist in Legion history to have been a penciller on the regular Legion title and to also have drawn them in Adventure...

In Adventure they were pencilled by greats like Curt Swan and John Forte but not by Cockrum, Grell, Giffen and the like...

And as mentioned earlier...that makes Francis the only Legion artist to jump boots AFAIK.

The washes are looking real good on the 2/5/09 blogspot posting. Whew.

KAl-L is coming back as a Black Lantern (the look of the toy was leaked)

Francis, it's so wonderful you're working on a book that I would be likely to buy. I can't wait to see more of your artwork.

It seems pretty clear from the blacked-out image/cover that the lead character in Adventure will be A Superboy. I say "A" because it seems like it could be Kon-El or S Prime (which is an old artillery term BTW) and I haven't been able to follow all the con-related news. Either would be interesting, and either would have drawbacks. But, from everything that Geoff and Grant have done in the last 4 years, it seems really likely that the motif going here is the legacy and influence of Superman--characters trying to live up to it, carry it on, etc. I think that can be a great basis for stories. One of the best things about All-Star Supes was the acknowledged reality that Superman's influence carries on to the far future. BTW, thinking about this concept makes me wonder -- the Action/Legion story lacked a final scene, didn't it, with Superman appearing before Earth and the UP saying "I'm THE Superman, I'm a Kryptonian, AND a citizen of Earth, AND a citizen of the Galaxy, and all of you can be the same if you start helping each other again." It seems like that should have been the natural ending, but Johns didn't use it, maybe because he wasn't done with the Earth/xenophobe trope yet.

I am thrilled by Francis Manapul being on this book, but not thrilled at all that Legion will become a third string Superman supporting cast. But at least I was right from the beginning: that was always what Johns said about the "Legion" legacy to his eyes.
It's true that Johns has shaken things up to a point that everything is up for grabs and this is a great sales incentive. But somehow he seems to be diluting all to a never-solving future of chaotic mess without ever changing premises (like 5YL marvelously did). Let's see how well he fares. So far as the Legion is concerned, he has failed miserably. <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Except for killing another Karate Kid. Probably the only time he acknowledged - rather than destroyed -Giffen's superior comic book skills.</span></span>

i don't think the legion will be a "third string" supporting cast to superman. at all. i would actually WAIT UNTIL THE COMIC COMES OUT to judge it as such.

and how about we reserve "johns is going to destroy the legion" until after he actually writes an issue or two of the new them god, it's depressing that when we get a preview of a prologue or anything about what's coming, how horrifyingly negative people can be. it's hard enough to write or draw a book when people are already predicting everlasting failure.

geoff johns is known for revitalizing series. you might whine about how much you hate whatever he does, but there's no arguing with the sales figures and how highly esteemed he is to OTHERS in his field.

my first meeting of geoff johns was during teen titans. i was upset that the characters weren't like they were in the cartoon, but it was still a fun read. i HATED the art, hated it. but i kept reading it for some reason and every time i looked at the art i went 'man, but i want to buy it!" i had no idea who was writing it except one day i had a nerd-question and found his message board to go ask said question. then i promptly forgot whoever was writing it.

do you know when i dropped the book? when these assholes from the future showed up all of a sudden. they were called the legion. and boy were they a legion, there was some green guy that was a jerk for no apparent reason, and then a giant girl with stupid hair, and then bart's COUSIN? he has a cousin?! and then some guy made of crystal or something and they were fighting a group of... i don't know! one lady had an EYE and there was a freaky purple thing and a weird ren-fest guy with an axe! i was very angry that my very easy-to-understand-book had been invaded by a literal legion of people.

i'd never heard of the legion before and when i did they were a plague upon the comic i had been reading. i still think putting them in there was a mistake, or that it should have been handled in much more "baby steps" manner.

after dropping that, and that was the ONLY DC comic i was reading, i tried to find something else. it was then that i realized that i didn't like most other comic books. they weren't interesting or fun, they were annoying and boring and all the girl characters sucked and i couldn't get into them. it was only a long time later that i realized i liked how johns wrote and that was what had kept me reading the series. i was so used to reading comics for the art and almost ignoring the story (because guys, most comic writers are BAD, ok?), that it hadn't occured to me that i was possibly reading it for the writing and that not ALL comics would be funny and cool.

he set my standards very high and very few other writers were even remotely acceptable to me for a long time.

now he made the flash interesting (i think i'm in love with flash villains now?! i think they're COOL? i think i even like JAY GARRICK), he made me UNDERSTAND GL stuff and not throw up when hal jordan shows up, and for the first time i actually find the JSA cool, after getting annoyed and embarrassed any time the JSA showed up in another book.

given his history and actual, you know, facts, i would say that the odds are stacked in his favor for revitalizing the legion and bringing new fans to the series. in fact, i'm POSITIVE he will. absolutely positive.

it might not be the legion you want, just like it wasn't exactly the teen titans i wanted, but if you can get over the fact that "you know what, no one is going to write the story you secretly have in your head", and are actually open to DIFFERENT INTERPRETATIONS of a character, then i think you'll be happy.

i'd also point out that the cover bears a STRIKING resemblance to those old covers where the members are all in little boxes. nice homage.

ps, AFOB, i think i have DEFENDED MY TITLE NOW!!! i'll fight you with one arm tied behind my back. to make it even.

I think there is a difference you are not considering here: I was open to Shooter's reinterpretation of a loser's game from the beginning (L3), I was open to the radical manouvers of Giffen for 5YG, as well as enjoying the hell out of Levitz run. I have a little bit of more background on comics than you do, because you seem so young - and that's what comics should be for, I guess, especially superheroes.
I do buy everything with Johns' name on DC, to be honest: there's something very attractive in his writing even though he always seems to NEVER conclude anything. He is a master in building up expectations - I'll give you that.
His GL has been a lot of fun (but less so than GLC) and his Booster Gold was a fun read. I do like his JSA (even though his decompressing style sometimes seems to wander to a buildup that never happens).
But his Legion so far is just a bunch of colorful characters punching each other - luckily with George Pérez artwork. Nothing so far has shown a bit of focus on the team: it's always GL, Superman, Kon-L, Kal-L, all Flashes and whatever else he likes better. Sorry, not my idea of "different interpretation" to the Legion, rather than subordinating them to Superman Family, as said, in fact, in DC Nation today.

Ricardo: I concur whole-heartedly with your sentiment.

veryvery: Although your side of the argument is well-taken, albeit longwinded for my taste, the rest of the Legion readership can't feel but cautious with Johns' direction for the team because we've been through numerous continuity shakeups. And that's great that you have such enthusiasm for LO3W. It's anyone's subjective feeling and I won't begrudge others who feel otherwise. None of us doubt Johns' ability to write fantastic superhero books, and he certainly has the track record for it.

What gets me with Johns is that he violated three central tenets in why I loved the Legion: utopian future, strong characterization with an ensemble cast, and a level of autonomy from the rest of the DC Universe.
Strike one: Johns perpetuates alien xenophobia turns the 31st century into a dystopian future, courtesy of the Justice League of Earth. He's practically aping a mixture of the 5YG and DnA runs, which I abstained from reading any furthur.
Strike two: Although Johns has rectified the relationship between Supes and the Legion, which I liked, his presence as an active member makes the other members seem irrelevent. It's the same reason why I disliked the treatment of the 3boot Legion during the time Supergirl joined.
Strike three: Johns and Manapul are slated to be the creative team for Adventure Comics volume 3. After reading several sources about the MO of the book, my suspicions for this 'Retroboot' Legion were confirmed that the team wasn't going to be the lead feature, thus consolidating them into the Superman family book. Although I am getting a kick from reading all things Superman-related, especially New Krypton, it saddens me that the Legion lost their autonomy to have solo stories.

'Sigh'

What can't be ignored is at least Johns is trying to make the Legion more palatable to broader comic book audiences. We'll just have to patiently wait to see what happens next.

Now I need to take some headache meds to clear away my frustration.

Your post was 335 words, veryvery's 740. Now, if veryvery types twice as fast as you, it would seem, in my book, to be even.



We need a "stir-the-pot" smiley just for me.

LOL! I just realized that! We're all hypocrites in some fashion or another. Its all kosher. L'chaim!

why do people keep saying they're playing second fiddle to superman? 1) you haven't read the book yet. and nothing in the dc nation panel says anything about them playing third string. 2) superman is going to be OFF PLANET for a long while!! meaning.... he can't interact with them! meaning he can't be stealing the show.

what is WRONG with the legion being palatable to, you know, people?! and i don't think he's playing to the lowest common denominator, he doesn't write in tons of T&A for example, i don't think he writes cheaply if that makes sense.

even assuming that the legion AREN'T the stars of the adventure starting in june, (which istil don't think is true), the legion started in adventure comics. and then they worked their way to their own book. i have no doubt that if this goes well, they will become more prominent or get their book back. training wheels. this is how comics work!

as for LO3W i think there's A LOT of Legion in it. you just have to look at what is ACTUALLY HAPPENING.

he brings in these other characters for CONTRAST and COMPARISON. what better way to make mon-el look cool than to put him up against sodom yat? there's a giant fight going on so... yeah it's kind of difficult to show a lot of character depth at the same time. but i think he's showing us a lot of the THEMES that make up the legion as a whole while still differentiating characters for us on the fly.

think about what ROLES these not-legion things play. what are they? they are TOOLS. they are WEAPONS. i think it makes the team VERY impressive for them to utilize the things they have around them in expert manner. the legion has always been about their numbers and exquisite teamwork, and i think those are the tenets that johns is showing us in LO3W.

in other words: the legion is so bad ass that they can summon OTHER super things like GLs and something lex luthory and a frigging FLASH, AND THEIR OTHER SELVES, and throw them at their bad guys!

ricardo: for the record, being older doesn't mean that you have a better background on comics. it just means you're older.

Again, you're quick to judge. Sorry if you felt antagonized because of our different views, but the point of the matter is that Johns did have his time to show us his skills with the Legion via two prior stories: the Lightning Saga and the recent Action Comics storyarc. Although I would have to admit the Lightning Saga was a good story, but I just wasn't sold with everything Johns was selling when he was showing all of his cards in Action. It continues to have the same effect on my enjoyment of LO3W.

I also did listen to the Superman panel on my Mac a few hours ago, and Johns still doesn't convince me that the new Adventure Comics is a Legion book. If you read his CBR interview (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=19935), it clearly says that there's a lead character and the book will be, for all intents and purposes, a 'variety show' occasionally featuring the Legion. The frustration isn't the quality of the writing or what other DCU characters appear in the book, rather that the Legion aren't the lead feature.

BTW, I understand you're adamant about defending your side and I know this is the Internet, but don't let that ruin the civility among our other Legion Worlders and their own sentiments about the Legion. We all want whats best for the Legion and garner more fans to our fandom. So let's keep our discourse on civil.

Edit on last sentence:
So let's keep our discourse civil.

Freudian slip.

sorry if i come across as angry, i'm totally not! i wish you could hear my voice, i'm not angry-sounding at all! these are the sounds of my gentle typing fingers.

i don't have a problem with your viewpoint or anyone elses, it's just baffling that people are calling this so early on the game. BEFORE the game even. so that "quick to judge thing" works both ways here.

in lightning saga, the legion are guest appearances in a different comic, how COULD they be the main characters? and i think the action comics arc showed us A LOT in a tiny space and i never thought that superman was the focal point of that story at all.

hahaha superman, actually...now that you mention it, i think he's background noise a lot of the time. he's sort of just...there, you know? he never seems to DO things, things happen TO him, like the new krypton thing? he's just this whiny guy in the background going "guyyyysss guyyyys, don't fiiight, c'monnnn, guys seriously ;__;!!". he'll give a speech and then everyone's like "that's so inspiring superman! really! but we're soooo not listening, ciao~"

Didn't Lightle do a couple reboot issues?

Right. Lightle did covers and interiors for 'The Legion' #24 and #34. So TECHNICALLY, Manapul is the second to jump from different iterations. Or we can Manapul's one of the few artists that crossed over on a regular Legion title and Adventure Comics.

Loved how THAT defused the tension on the thread. LOL!

Yup, I guessed right all along. The Legion of Super-Heroes was sold down the river for nothing.

From here on in, it's a broken down vaudeville act in Geoff Johns' All New, Rave Revue Continuity-Porn Show.

Question i n the DC Unverse panel at NYCC

- What's the future of the Legion or the different versions of the Legion? Read the Superman books and "Adventure Comics. "

veryvery: I have at least 24 years of quite intense DC readership. Moreover, I study the medium academically from the point of view of business, So, I do think I have a bit more background on the trials of the medium and a bit more background on DC than you do - which is NOT a pun on you, but simply the reason you cannot accuse me of being close-minded or anything like that.

As for the Legion being third-stringers, it's all based on facts:

1) DC Editorial is very clear that Adventure Comics will feature multiple characters (apparently among them, LSH) but it will feature prominently ONE. If you add Kon-El as the major character from ADV #0, and the search for Lex DNA on L3W, it's clear where this is headed. Superboy will be the major character on ADV.

2) There is NO Legion on the cover of Adventure Comics. There's Starman, as conceived on JSA, not on Legion. And that's it. Not even pundists of 5YG can say that of Giffen's gigantic work on the legend.

3) L3W is more worried about Superboy-Prime and the future of Flash and GL than the Legion. They are stand-bys to the real action: the return of Kon-El and Impulse, XS and maybe a clean-up on the various Legions around. Maybe.

1) i think it's going to be superboy. personally? i think it's going to be a different superboy form conner.

futhremore, superboy+thelegion does not mean "superboy is the focus". consider what the OTHER issues that were "supergirl+legion" and "superboy+legion" ,if i remember correctly those issues were.... NOT ALL ABOUT THE SUPERS. at all. again, they are practically background noise.

2)the legion will not be fully in the comic until JUNE. JUNE. the rest is a prologue-y arc thing, done, very... very obviously, because L03W needs to finish first.

3)i've already argued this point, that the primes, the supers, the gls, and the flashes are all subordinate to the direction of the legion. through the careful manipulation of the JLA and the JSA, they just brought a FLASH back to life. how is that NOT impressive?

i mean, i would LOVE 5 issues of the legion sitting around talking about themselves in deep, introspective terms, but they have crazy bad guys to fight. so they are fighting them.

ricardo: dude, i don't care how long you've been a fan. 24 years means nothing. it just doesn't. other people on this board are just as old as you and have even more fan years under their belt that don't have the same opinion as you, therefore there is no correlation between fan years and "rightness". at all. furthermore, i have actual experience in the field of comics. i have created comics, i have edited comics, i have worked conventions, i draw for a living. does that mean i'm right in everything i say? absolutely not. but it does mean that you can't try to overrule everything i say with "i'm older", because it means nothing. it would be really, really awesome if you only tried with me on the things i'm saying rather than personal attack concerning what you think you know about me. i don't know what your problem is with me, but ever since i've gotten to this board, you've seen the need to address me and my background personally, and you need to stop.

Adventure Comics starts in June. So it is obvious that LSH will not be the main character there, but one more. And since it is not even on the cover (even Krypto is), that means a lot to me, but clearly not to you. Great to see your optimism.

As for the rest of your arguments, I'd rather take them privately. I just want to be clear I have NOTHING against you and I NEVER said that from being older I was "right", but just that I have been exposed to more material and saw many more changes to Legion of Super-Heroes than you did. In fact, you had accused ME of being prejudiced against Johns, which was never the case. But so far, my predictions have been more accurate than yours. So, I am not an optimist.

Ah-ha! I KNEW it!!!

Sanford Greene has drawn issues of both LSH31C and LSH v5.

--

Where I stand on the whole status-of-the-Legion-in-Adventure thing...

I don't see Adventure as a Legion book, primarily. I think it's more exposure for the post-FC:L3W Legion, whatever that turns out to look like. I'm sure they'll get their own book eventually, and this is, as has been said, training wheels.

It's probably a pretty smart way for DC to do things: build an audience, build demand.

But I still don't like it.

Jeff Moy drew one issue of Legionnaires prior to Zero Hour, but wasn't the regular artist til after the reboot. And our greatly missed Dark Bamf, Dave Cockrum, did a short sequence near the end of the reboot team also.

And Keith Giffen drew an issue of The Legion towards the end

Also Walter Simonson worked on both pre and post Zero Hour Legions

I remember the Moy and Giffen issues but can someone please remind me which reboot stories Cockrum and Simonson drew?

Simonson drew the story that Paul Levitz wrote for issue 100 of "Legion of Super-Heroes" that set up the story that changed Andromeda, Brainiac 5 and Kinetix. I can't remember what the thing they were investigating was called.

Cockrum drew a sequence that featured Mekt Ranzz that I think came out sometime around when Kon-El joined the reboot team. I don't have the issue number. Al Milgrom inked the pages.

Thanks Matlock. I remember the Simonson one now. It was the story that introduced the Anomaly plot-line. (And Gee - didn't that turn into a winner. )

Still have no recollection of that Cockrum/Mekt one though. Was it in an actual Legion book?

I found the issue number, it was #25 of "The Legion," right about the time the reboot team was starting it's big Darkseid story.

ohhhh, I have that issue. Will have to check it out (although honestly I don't like that story and felt that DnA must have hated Kon the way they wrote him.)

In fact, I remember being real confused when I read that story, because I had the Superboy issues where he first meets the p-zh Legion and then I read Foundations, and I thought that he was meeting yet ANOTHER version of the team since the legion acted like they had never met Kon before (and vice versa). Really threw me, still confuses me really why you wouldn't reference their previous meetings (it's only two stories, not like its a lot of research)

Yeah I meant regular artist...

Technically Keith Giffen could be considered the first if you want to consider the 5YG as a boot...and technically he was the regular artist on 3 different versions of the Legion(Pre Crisis, Immediate Post Crisis and 5YG)but since there is a gray area on where the Legions he drew began and ended, I'd still be willing to give it to Francis because there would be no doubts he's the regular on totally completely different versions of the Legion.

That is if he actually ends up drawing the Legion regularly on this title.

Dan Jurgens could also get an honorable mention here since IIRC he did several issues of Tales of the Legion(might just been covers as I get he and Terry Shoemaker's early work confused) and also did the Titans Legion crossover from a few years ago.

And of course Barry Kitson also was the reg artist on L.E.G.I.O.N and 3Boot, but still...I think Francis is the first one to truly do it as the regular artist on completely different Legions of Superheroes if he does it.

Personally I hope he does as I like his Saturn Girl and Phantom Girl immensely.

Did Sprouse and Immonen both draw both late 5YL and early reboot issues?

I think Sprouse only drew the issue of the main title that spun off the "Legionnaires" title where they got the new costumes and codenames. Immonen drew the first issue of the reboot in the main title (the "0" issue.)

Dan Jurgens also drew the last four issues of "The Legion" prior to the threeboot relaunch.

Yes, it looks like the Legion is going to be second fiddle to the Superman family again. I say again because this is just things going back to how the Legion started out-as a part of the Superman family. And honestly? I'm not that bothered by it. It's not without precedent in Legion history.

When the Legion was part of the Superman family it had its greatest most popular years. I have to grudgingly acknowledge this even though I personally much prefer a Superboy/Man-less Legion and Superboy is easily my least favourite Legionnaire in any Legion incarnation.

This is business that DC is engaged in. Nothing they have tried with the Legion since the first Crisis has worked. The Legion has failed again and again and again. The franchise is now on the verge of extinction. If turning the LSH back into Superman family characters is what it takes to save it. Then hell yes!

Not ideal for us dwindling band of Legion fans. But it makes business sense from DC's perspective. Superman is a character that everyone in the world has heard of. No one except a tiny minority of fans has heard of the Legion. It's not upside down rocket science here guys.

And no doubt history will repeat itself again and the Legion will hopefully in time gain popularity again and step out from Superman's shadow. It's happened twice before in the silver and bronze ages. I've no doubt it will happen again.

And no I was not exactly thrilled when Legion of 3 Worlds abruptly changed from a Legion story into a Green Lantern Corps story. (and this is coming from someone who likes the GLC-man that acronym always makes me think of the Greater London Council!- as well as the Legion)- but darnit it's a Legion story, leave the GLs out of it!

(It's greatly obvious that Johns is far more interested in the Green Lantern Corps than in the Legion. Doesn't bode well I have to admit.)

Sorry, Drura, but 5YL was a hit and it happened after the Crisis. Not only it was a hit, but it was the only time there were 2 completely different all-new Legion books (4 if you consider L.E.G.I.O.N and Valor) at the same time being published.
So much for the "most popular years" argument. Even if you consider Levitz years as the most popular (for being the best selling title with Titans), Legion was far away from Superman books. In fact, Legion was stronger whenever Superboy was second-fiddler to the actual rest of the team.

I hear you. I just feel that the Legion going back to its roots as a part of the Superman family is very much the lesser of two evils. (the greater evil being no Legion at all) Is it good from our perspective as Legion fans? No it's very unsatisfactory.

But this is the cards we have been dealt. Our fandom is a minority one. Most comics fans don't give a damn about the Legion. That's why the outrage over the Legion's recent shoddy treatment by TPTB has been so muted in general comics fandom. Most comics fans don't care about the Legion, it doesn't even appear on their radar. And that's why we have arrived at the situation we now find ourselves in.

I don't think it's a deliberate insult from DC. I think they are just doing business and however much we may wish otherwise they are approaching this from a business perspective, not a fan one. They want profitable comics and if that means marrying a minority franchise with a big money famous franchise that has been in constant publication since 1939 and non comics people the world over has heard of. ~Well it's not hard to see why they find that attractive.

I think it kinda sucks too. But I don't think Didio is rubbing his hands together and going ha ha those Legion fans! I'll show them! It's just business and as such very impersonal. It's very much second best for us fans but that's just the way it is.

I might be a lone crack-pot in thinking this but I'm actually of the position that Dan Didio and DC are putting more care and effort into making the Legion great at this point in time than they have since I started reading comics 20 years ago! Yes, I said it!

Other than giving the threeboot a rushed send-off (and really, how many people actually care about that? the Yay/Nay thread in this forum shows that the vast majority of Legion fans on this board overwhelmingly did not care for that incarnation anyway) DC have got the Legion front and centre in nearly every corner of the DCU right now!

Just look at this list of Legion-related stuff of the past couple of years and then tell me if you can remember a time when there's ever been this much Legion goodness in the DCU -

* DC's #1 writer (Geoff Johns) on a Legion book! Check.
* DC (and the industry)'s #1 artist (George Perez) on a Legion book! Check.
* The Legion starring in their own mini directly connected to THE big DC event book of 2008! Check.
* The Legion having a prominent extended storyline in two of DC's very few Top 20 books of 2008 (JLA & JSA)! Check.
* The Legion also having a prominent extended storyline in DC's oldest and (one of its) highest profile books of 2008 (Action Comics)! Check.
* Two Legionnaires (Karate Kid and Duo Damsel) featured as main players in DC's big weekly event book of 2008 (Countdown)! Check.
* One Legionnaire (Star Boy) as a central member in one of DC's best and most successful ongoings (JSA)! Check.
* That same Legionnaire playing a key part in the next BIG DC event book of 2009 (Blackest Night)! Check.
* Multiple Legion member guest-appearances in various books around the DCU (Action, Superman, R.E.B.E.L.S., Brave and Bold, etc.)! Check.
* As well as multiple Legion villain guest appearances around the DCU too (Mordru, the Fatal Five, the Luck Lords, etc.)! Check.
* Reprinting a key Legion story cheaply and giving it the greatest possible exposure to capture new fans! Check.
* Starring (or support-featuring?) in their own monthly book in 2009 with a super-star creative team on board! Check.

I mean, really, what more do people want?

(P.S. And Yes - obviously the anti-depressants have kicked in since my post of 3 pages ago. )

That is a strong list of pros there Blacula. Thanks for listing them all.

Another item on that *pro* list should be having a popular, current top writer for DC write a special episode of one of the most popular shows on TV at the moment, and have it be focused on the three founding members of the LSH. Check!

I realize it's a different medium altogether but it does add significantly to building the Legion's popularity and gets a new generation excited about this future superhero team.

The problem with Blacula's list is that it is, as Kim Mitchell would say, a lot of feathers and not much chicken.

A year ago at this time, the Legion had two regular ongoing titles and its own cartoon. Now? Some guest appearances and what's left of a miniseries.

I realize that a lot of what's going on is positioning, and I can come up with a perfectly plausible scenario for how it's going to pay off with some kind of triumphant Legion golden age in, I don't know, 2011 or something. But DC hasn't exactly earned the benefit of the doubt from me after they way they drove the threeboot into the bottom of the canal. DC is going to have to show me.

Same here. Didio says that Adventure is going to be a Legion book. Didio says, just kidding, but the first six issues will have a Legion story. Didio says, fooled you again, the Legion may or may not appear at all after the reprint in issue 1...

DC, through Didio, may talk a good fight, but they've lied too much for me to get my hopes up. I'm not Charlie Brown. I'm not going to keep running at the ball, hoping that *this time* Didio was telling the truth.

I'm with you, Matthew E and Set. Too much fluff and no meat. And where there was some meat, Dan decided to leave us just with the bones and told us to "move on".
As much as Blackula brings some positive points, the fact is that Legion will become as important as Jimmy Olsen or Nightwing - maybe less so, since at least the last one does have its magazine. And will not have anything worth reading at least until 2010. Maybe R.E.B.E.L.S. will be the vehicle for the return of the team after all. At least, it kinda seems like from the last hints of Bedard. And that will be my Legion book of 2009.

Good call on the Smallville episode Future King!

I'd actually argue Matthew that the animated Legion series (along with its tie-in comic) of a year ago are just further evidence for my position that DC have been making a concerted effort over the past couple of years to re-invigorate and re-popularize the Legion concept/brand. At a rate/level unseen in decades (if ever before).

The fact that the cartoon failed is certainly no fault of DC's and all the blame of the writers/producers/WB-bigwigs who created such a tepid, unsatisfying show. And its dull, shallow tie-in comic (which had 10 times the 21st Century DC character/property intrusion that Lo3W does) was obviously just a casualty of that cancellation (not helped I'm sure by its poor sales).

I've already mentioned how unmissed the threeboot will be by most fans.

I agree with you that the Legion is being 'positioned' right now and that we're only going to find out what the BIG PLAN for them is later in 2009 or sometime in 2010, but that at least shows to me that DC and Didio are making an effort with the team/concept - and certainly don't hate the team or its fans the way some posters on this board have been alleging.

I agree that there was an effort to push the Legion. Now? Well... I understand the argument, but what does it mean to reinvigorate and repopularize the Legion without publishing any Legion comics?

The cartoon did not fail. Warner Brothers just decided to stop making cartoons, that's all. And not just the Legion: the whole KidsWB enterprise was shut down. Not DC's fault, certainly, but the cancellation of the comic book (which a) was much better than you give it credit for, and b) didn't necessarily have sales problems, as nobody knows just what the sales numbers are for any Johnny DC titles) was all on them.

I'm always willing to admit that the threeboot had flaws, but it also had the problem that DC was throwing its weight behind Geoff Johns's Legion, while Johns was giving everyone the impression that he was the first guy to write a Legion comic in 20 years.

What I'm worried about is that this is the big plan: the Legion are to be guest stars in Adventure in perpetuity. And that won't work because Adventure is kind of a weird idea for a comic book. And there's no plan B. And then in 2011 or something DC will put some C-list writer on a Legion title to fill out the bottom of their solicits list, and it'll stink.

Certainly not the only way things could happen. As I said, I could just as easily paint a very rosy picture of what's going to happen, because there are some hints of deep and clever planning. But I don't trust them to get it right. DC made me like the threeboot, and then they crumpled it up and threw it away. I know DC is making an effort and I know they don't hate the Legion or its fans... but I think they're too often careless.

Blacula:

Quote

...The fact that the cartoon failed is certainly no fault of DC's and all the blame of the writers/producers/WB-bigwigs who created such a tepid, unsatisfying show.

No lie: If it hadn't been for the show, I wouldn't be here. It's what woke up my interest in the Legion after my own personal 5 X 4-year gap. Or is that nap ?

Not that DC should rise or fall on what one barely-employed middle-aged Caucazoid female on the Left Coast thinks, but I feel like defending the cartoon anyway. The designs were good, the voicings and music were appealing and it didn't depart from the characters and situations I knew to an intolerable degree. When I ran out of eps, I went and rented a bunch of other DC animated stuff. Some of it's great fun so far, but it doesn't warm my shriveled old heart quite the same way.

You're preaching to the choir on that sentiment. And as a corollary to DC's decision on trashing the 3boot for the Johns 'retroboot,' I suspected that there was a level of trepidation with the transition from Post-Zero Hour to 3boot.

Although Waid had some great twists and established a different modus operandi on the book, I don't think DC had their total support with him, which is a shame because there was so much untapped potential with the 3boot.

If or when the 3boot Legion survives LO3W and travel back to wherever earth they are from (I know this might be wishful thinking), but I would like to see another FC Aftermath mini, or set it in R.E.B.E.L.S., dealing with LO3W's ramifications and at least put an official capstone on this era in Legion history, because issue #50 was not an ending. It was just a fill-in.

Almost certainly the final fate of the 3Boot will be revealed in LO3W. That's why Ish 50 had an inconclusive ending. Perez just said 2 weeks ago he was still woking on LO3W 4, so there was nothing absolutely set in stone even after Ish 50. Based on the solicit for 50 and what happened in 49 ,the subplots that were left unresolved or ignored altogether were the injuries to Phantom Girl, the death of a longtime Legionnaire, and the conclusion of the Projectra storyline.

So you have Phantom Girl and Projectra as the likely candidates for 50 being completely rewritten.

Well the Phantom Girl problem is pretty obvious. She has a fairly prominent role in LO3W #3 that is pretty much impossible to change. But changing her fate in Ish 50 would have been no big deal at all...just don't kill her. Have her heal in one of those protein chambers and then kill someone else in Ish 50. They healed her intentionally to match up with LO3W 3....

But that couldn't be the reason for completely ignoring the Jeckie storyline as well as the solicit.

So does that mean the Jeckie storyline was the cause of the re-write? Most likely. She was either destined to die or become a Legion baddy, and she was already shown in LO3W I believe.

At the same time, she's hardly been indispensible to LO3W up this point so I don't see why they couldn't have written her out of LO3W without much trouble, even at the last minute.

So something still doesn't add up...they still don't have a good reason for ignoring her storyline in Ish 50.

It's also possible that Shooter intended Brainiac 5 to die in Ish 50. He almost did die after all. I could see Brainy being the Legionnaire that dies, at least physically, while his conciousness lives on, perhaps with Dreamy in that alien virtual world. Brainy would then be a sentient computer living in a virtual world, which could be seen as the ultimate personification of his powers. And the prophesized marriage with Dream Girl would also be taken care of, with a twist.

Since 3Boot Brainy he seems to have the most prominent role in LO3W of any 3Booter, that would obviously be a major problem.

But that still doesn't explain why they ignored the Jeckie storyline completely.

So add it all up and what do you get? Why did Ish #50 end the way it did?

Reading between the lines, what I get out of it is that the 3Boot Legion in LO3W HAS to be from after Ish #50 happened, and not any earlier time, and to me that means their final fate and their future is going to be revealed in LO3W, and they have something very specific in mind.

I also get that 3Boot Jeckie possibly has a major role coming up in LO3W that pogtentially makes her indispensible to the plot. That's the only reason completely ignoring her storyline in Ish 50 makes sense.

In any case, I am pretty sure we will be able to figure out why 50 ended the way it did by reading LO3W #'s 4 and 5 and keeping an eye out for what happens with Jeckie...the reason for the Phantom Girl change has already been revealed, and it in turn also reveals that the 3Boot in LO3W is from after Ish 50..

Geoff Johns reveals that Adventure Comics will co-feature the Legion of Super-Heroes.

Love that two page spread of Ma, Conner and Krypto looking out over the farm.

Yeah, but as previously said, Legion will be a co-feature. Alas, second-rate team supporting a second-rate Superboy.

Judging by the hype, the Legion are a back-up rather than a co-feature. Conner Kent is clearly the star of the book.

How did his Superboy run compare to Legion sales at the time?

Do we know that for sure, or is it just speculation?

Gary's link quotes Geoff Johns as saying now that Lo3W is out, he can confirm the LSH as the co-feature.

How tiresome. Well, I hope that isn't DC's idea of a permanent solution.

Well, it's like Inigo Montoya going back to the beginning when the plan fails in the "Princess Bride."

A few thoughts, and I haven't read FC:LO3W #4 yet.

1) The Kon-El Superboy has never really been THAT interesting to me, even when Johns wrote him in TT. BUT, there is something intriguing about a character who is heir to both Luthor and Superman interracting with heroes of the future. My favorite portrayal of Luthor is as a potentially heroic genius who got fatally twisted onto the wrong track. So, what does an heir to that legacy, one without the fatal twist (yet), look like? In the SA, we saw the descendant of Luthor helping the Legion, atoning for his ancestor. I wouldn't mind seeing something like that again, especially since it gives some MOTIVATION to telling more stories about the character. Also, it's a reason to see how someone grows up to be a Superman again, which is a nice story to tell. And it fits with Superboy Prime's story, Superman's story and the Legion's story. Since it seems pretty clear Lois won't be having super-babies, Connor really is THE genetic heir to the legacy.

2) I'm still REALLY dodgy about the ongoing potential of the Lightning Saga/LO3W Johns Legion. As I've said before, it's an extended high school reunion exercise that has the potential to get awkward really quickly. Would we really continue to call Garth Lightning LAD at this point? But the hero's name is Lightning LAD, not Lightning MAN. Don't get me wrong, I generally like the portrayals of our Legion as adults that Johns has come up with. Faithful, with some intriguing surprises. But I just don't think an adult Legion is THE Legion. And you can't just tell flashbacks, because there won't be any real suspense.

I haven't read it yet either.

I've always rationalized the 'boy/lad/lass' names for what were clearly (young) adults even in the 1970s and 1980s was that by 30th/31st C standards, where 'normal' longevity might be 2-3 centuries, that youth is a more relative concept than today.

I'm not impressed by the notion that the Legion *has* to be teens. I prefer a Legion that formed as teams but grew up together.

After SW6, Reboot and Threeboot, I'm quite happy to see an adult Legion back in the forefront. Enough of the teens, already! Teen-Legionists have had their way exclusively for the past decade and a half... yet the Legion's most successful sales era was their young-adult years of the 70s and 80s.

Now if DC can just get over its obsession with the upside-down rocket-ship... plenty of us have more nostalgia for the orange tower than the 60s HQ, which was used for only a dozen years the first time around.

I'm neutral on Kon, but I'm glad he grew out of the mid-90s stuff. His black-T-shirt look is cool, though.

It's not that I think they should be (annoying)teens, per se, it's just the disconnect of a supposedley adult Superman hanging around with someone called Lightning Lad. And it's made pretty clear that these guys and gals (paging Sarah Palin!) are older than the "young" adults of the 1970s and 1980s. I'm fine if they are 18-22, but Supes is like 30, and so are they.

'Co-feature' is sure a heck of a lot better than Didio's song and dance routing of;

'It's a Legion book! We'd never abandon such an amazing property and I'm shocked you'd even suggest that!'

'No, it's a Superman family book, but it's gonna have Legion stories in it!'

'No, only the first six issues will have Legion stories in them!'

'No, only the first issue will have a Legion story in it, and it's a reprint of their first meeting with Superboy!'

I like Geoff Johns 'co-feature' idea better than Dan Didio's fast-talking spiral of decay.

Off with your pee-pee!

Cloneboy: after seeing Manipul's panels, I could actually consider thinking about becoming a fan or at least giving the character another shot.

So the Legion are going to be the co-feature in this book? Hmmmm not sure what to think of that.

On the one hand -

* It will certainly be great getting a new Legion story every month.

* Especially one that seems like it will be about the Action-Legion, who are my favourite version at this point.

* And having it be written by someone with the BIG-NAME pulling power of "Geoff Johns" means that the team will undoubtedly be getting a whole lot more exposure than it has in a while and hopefully a lot more new fans too.

But on the other hand -

* I have to spend my hard-earned money on a frakkin' Conner-boring-Kent comic every month just to get my Legion-fix!?

* And it's not even being brought to me by Kesel and Grummett, the only team to ever get this character right, but instead by the one writer who completely annihilated all the interest I used to have in him, Geoff Johns, too!

* And just how many pages will this co-feature be anyway? The Legion need a lot more than only 8 pages a month.

...

I guess I would characterise my position on this new book as 'cautiously optimistic'.

As long as they keep the two features completely separate and do right by the Legion characters then I think I'll be happy.

... Gosh though - Geoff Johns on a Legion ongoing...! One thing's for sure - this is the dawning of a new age in Legion history and fandom!

Here\'s a link to a couple of additional pages, where you can click for a larger image of the MA, Connor, Krypto surveying the farm scene. Freakin' incredible!! I can't wait for this now!

Ah well, legion as a co-feature is better than no Legion at all. Ironically, we're back in the situation pre-S&LSH in which the Legion wasn't popular enough to warrant more than a back-up, it seems.
Let's only hope the "co-feature" will upgrade to a full book at some point.

I can't think of this adult Legion as being that young. They're almost as far along in the timeline as the 5YL legion, who were mostly in their 30s at least. And I'm still thinking of Superman as older than that. Someone once produced a timeline demonstrating that, in the Superman comics as of 2004, he was at least 39. That was assuming his published history from 1986 on held, and it no longer does. Apparently, DC is now playing Superman and his generation younger, and I don't like that. Don't take that to mean I intrinsically prefer an older Superman. What I mean is that there's no longer a clear continuity leading up to his present age.

My reading of the Action-Legion is that they're all roughly in their mid to late 20s and Superman (and Batman and Wonder Woman and so on) are all in their mid to late 30s.

(The original Titans being all in their mid 20s and the current Teen Titans all being in their mid to late teens.)

I don't have a problem with that set-up.

From Geoff Johns: "STARMAN will be the Legionnaire taking front and center stage with our first issue."

This makes me wonder if the new Adventure will be sort of a Brave and the Bold type feature, starring Superboy and a different Legionnaire(s) each issue. I think it would be kind of a cool idea to get the book off the ground, but I'd hope the Legion would gradually take over the focus in the long term--as they've already done to Superboy twice before. ;-)

RE: the Adv. cover, I wonder who that black silouette is supposed to be. Will it be revealed when the book actually comes out, or will it stay black? Is it Kon? Or another Legionnaire? A new character? I hope it's not another villain. We already have Luthor, Brainiac, and Bizarro. I wonder whose hand that is on Star Boy's shoulder too. Dream Girl's maybe?

Thought that might be Mon-El. As there's lots of hints of something happening with "people from the future" and him in Superman's sollicits.

^^^ Why would they black him out if so?

I'm almost 100% positive it's just Superboy-Prime and they're trying not to reveal his fate post-Lo3W.

The cape and the wall-punching are the big clues I think.

I thought it might be Bart but he looks too beefy, and it does look like he might be wearing a cape, but I'm not sure.

I agree with Blacula. It's most likely Prime.

I think Blacula is closer to the truth - there is not a single reason to have Mon-El shaded. In fact, Robinson has said Mon-El is his character for "Superman".
Now, it is interesting to see how Johns will portray people in their 30s/late 20s compared to TMK's magnificent tone (which sounded RIGHT their age) during 5YG. If L3W is any indication, he is going to dumb them down.

It seems the setup on the cover is villains on the left, (yes I know Luthor is part father)other major players on the right. I don't see Bizarro as a villain, just misunderstood and trying to do his best.
I don't know Conner that well; does he have any major villains that wear capes besides Prime? What is the signicance of the material the figure is punching through? Of course, who better to complete the villain trifecta than the one who killed him?
Oh, and in the enlarged version, it looks like the hand on Starman's shoulder is a man's.

I agree with Blacula that my view on Adventures is "cautiously optimistic." There's certinaly positives (my once favorite character getting a book, a writer I like on it, a big name on it so more fans will see it, Legion) but the downsides is that Geoff has written a very poor Superboy (yawn, wake me up when he has personality again) and his Legion hasn't grabbed me and I find his Lightning Lad atrocious and I'm boared with sychizo Starman (it was funny at first, but now it's sad to see Thom like that).

So I should be happy as I generally love Geoff's work and he's working on my favorite team and a character I used to love, but I haven't felt his pervious work on these characters before so I'm worried that they are going to go in a direction that I simply can't care about and that will be the end of my love for both.

Wait and see, I give it six issues (because it's Legion) but after that it's decision time.

I'm surprised at the number of people assuming they know what "co-feature" will mean.


"co-feature" is a VERY general and ambiguously defined term.

Way I see it, it could mean any of:
1) Superboy and LSH in co-mingled stories, as in
in the original Adventure run and S&LSH, i.e.
Kon-el joins the Legion.
2) Two stories per issue, one for Superboy, one for LSH...
3) Alternating focus every other issue.
4) Like #1, but with a time-traveling Superboy who doesn't NECESSARILY visit the LSH each issue.

I tend to think it is number 1.

Regardless, I feel much better now that they have an official slot, albeit a shared one.

From what Geoff Johns said in this interview http://www.newsarama.com/comics/050912-Geoff-Return.html

The co-feature will apparently spotlight different members of the LSH and won't always be written by him.

He also hints as LSH being somewhere else than in Adventure comics... Like in Superman.

So doesn't sound like we have a LSH co-feature, more like a revolving member co-feature.

Well, that all sounds pretty discouraging.

He also says that the LSH will be 'front and center' elsewhere in the DCU later this year. No hint as to where that might be. GL and the Light War? Blackest Night? Something else else we don't know about yet?

I'm not disappointed about the co-feature. If the team isn't getting it's own title- or sharing actual stories with Superboy or Superman, and if they are only getting 8 or so pages a month in ADVENTURE, then I'd rather see character spotlights than the kind of story that has this large a cast crammed into such a short space.

In the long run, some characters might gain new fans- which would hopefully translate to better sales when the LSH eventually gets its own title.

He also says about LOTW #5 that it will show us just where the various Legions will go. It sounds like all the characters are from the Johnsboot LSH. But not definitevely.

His comment "There are plans for the Legion beyond Adventure Comics too. You should be reading James Robinson’s Superman." I think most likely refers to Robinson's subplot currently running involving Tellus. Not too big a spoiler here, but essentially the Guardian has just decided that he made a promise to free Tellus and now he intends to keep it. I wonder if that means it will lead to the next LoSH (Retroboot version) storyline following Lo3W.

*If* we could ever have the Legion in their own book and a co-feature in Adventure Comics at the same time with rotating solo stories that would be so awesome. But thats a big if, and I'll believe it when I see it.

*If* its simply solo stories as a co-feature in Adventure, well, thats kind of discouraging, like Matthew says. I'll buy them for sure, but still...

I hope they've got some stories coming up for some of the underdog Legionnaires. I'm disappointed that they're starting out with the over-exposed Lightning Lad and Sun Boy and the Wildfire/Dawnstar thing has just been done to death. Exit stage left, one or both of them, please. Can't wait to see more of Polar Boy otoh. Just wish he'd lose the spikey hair.

I have a theory. Maybe not a good one, but a theory nonetheless.
Johns also mentioned that he will be writing "The Starman one." Now obviously, Starman and the Legion attract SLIGHTLY different audiences. As Cobie said "I'll buy them for sure..." and we'll read the Starman or whatever other stories are in the book, By the same token, maybe they are hoping people who don't know the Legion will read their stories and get hooked on them. What better way to start off thatn with one of the founders, in possibly a flashback story to how the team was founded? After a few of the more established characters appear, then the less exposed ones may appear. Just a theory--what do you guys think?

The book will be ADVENTURE COMICS STARRING SUPERBOY AND THE LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES with Geoff Johns and Francis Manapul on Superboy & Mike Shoemaker and Clayton Henry on the Legion of Super-Heroes - a split book with extra pages each month according to this week's DC NATION.

More on Clayton Henry and here with an Ultra Boy Commission and a Nightcrawler .


More on Mike Shoemaker and here .

Mike Shoemaker? Clayton Henry? Oh, great space. Well, I'll click on Nighty's links before I pass judgement. After all, at one time no one had ever heard of Levitz, Giffen, the Bierbaums, Cockrum, Grell, Coipel, DnA, Immonen etc etc etc....

BRB to pass judgement

OK, early artist judgement: I like it. It reminds me off Immonen (luv him!) with some Kevin Maguire (LUV HIM!!) and Chris Batista (luv him!!) mixed in.

But I like all kindsa artwork.

The writing will really make or break...

Back to pass judgement on the new writer...

An SNL alum? Oh my cheese and crackers. Well, since EDE and I weren't asked to do it, this could be the next best thing. Hopefully he won't go all "time to show them how UNFUNNY I can be!!" and start writing a bunch of morbid nonsense.

Color me...

I dunno... is there an 'intrigued yet cautious' crayon?

Huh. That's all's I can say. Well, it's certainly new blood (at least new to the Legion). Maybe there'll be some of that thar creativity stuff Matthew E has been clamorin' fer. (Why am I writing in a hillbilly accent?)

Cuz its fun, cuzin. Ah agree, some CREE-ativity wood be mite nice, by jingos!

I can't find that DC Nation, Nighty--where is it?

I personally think Henry's art is cool-I love the classic U-Boy!

In all DCs this week.
What's ironic is that it sort of contradicts what Geoff Johns was saying in his interview only a few days ago.

Don't know about the writer for LSH, but I've never been a fan of Clayton Henry. I didn't like his Alpha Flight run(and it wasn't because of the writing) and I was less than impressed with his pages in the most recent issue of Agents of Atlas... Not very fluid in my opinion.

I'll wait until I read the comic book to make a final judgement though.

Mauve.

I like the idea of these co-features. It makes sense- build interest and then launch a book. More and more I'm thinking most characters can't handle a monthly book, but still can draw readers.

LSH started out a co-feature, they'll be back.

Man, those are some thunder thighs (and calves) on Jo. But I love the drawing. Nightcrawler too. Don't think I've seen this artist's work before.

Nice! Big fan of Clayton Henry ever since that Lobdell Alpha mini way back when! Ultra Boy and NC look great.

I've never seen Clayton Henry's work, but it looks great! Love the look on Jo's face.

uh, what is it that is less than "cautiously optimistic" but not quite in negative teritory. The Ultra Boy doesn't disgust me (although the head seems tiny, or the legs are too big) but it doesn't excite me. I'll have to wait and see the actual issue because I find it hard to judge artist's just on pin-ups.

Not big name people on the book, which is sad, but maybe the writer can actually write comics and we aren't stuck with the painful learning process new writers have to go through.

Still, I'm in for at least six issues, but nothing is making me say "yeah, all my fears were unfounded, this will be great"

As far as Johns says, he will be co-plotting some of the co-features with Mike. And they will not be Legion, but solo adventures.
ANd it seems now that Robinson and Johns will tackle the Legion for a while at Superman books. Which kind of makes sense. I still hope for a Robinson mature take on the Legion, very off-DCU.

So we lost Jim Shooter and Francis Manapul, and in exchange we get nothing for half a year, and then an average artist and a completely unknown writer, doing stories that are less than full length. Does DC expect us to be satisfied with this?

I may or may not buy this. Right now I am so utterly furious with DC, I'm leaning toward continuing my boycott until Dan DiDio is fired.

By the way, is there still any reason for the existence of Legion of Super-Heroes written by Justin Thyme? Especially considering how late most DC books are? Or how they are consistently undoing what was written the month before?

Oh, he was the artist for the humorous ALPHA FLIGHT relaunch a few years back? I liked that series, though it lasted a scant 12 issues.

Feeling more excited now.

Couldn't agree more. Let's build that fanbase back up with some exciting stories and hot art, then kick Clone-El out of his book (again, for the first time)!

No offense to fjm cause I do like his art. But Clayton Henry is not an average artist and prefer him on the title.

I thought Geoff was going to write the Legion...that I am bummed about.

The latest batch of "20 answers and one question" from good ol' Dan in Newsarama brings us this:


8. Whew – let’s try to pull this back on track...as was revealed in teaser art for Adventure Comics and Legion of 3 Worlds, Superboy is back and is being referred to as “Superboy.” Now, over the past few years, you’ve gone out of your way at conventions to make it clear that you could n not refer to the character as Superboy, and the legal issues surrounding the character are fairly well known. So what happened to allow for the use?

DD: A lot of that at panels was being playful, but as far as what’s changed, Conner Kent, Superboy has come back from the dead, and we’re calling him Superboy. When Superboy died, we stopped calling him Superboy because he was dead. Any decision to call Superboy anything other than Superboy or not were completely voluntary on our end, and story driven. That’s the truth of it. Whether people believe it or not – that’s not my concern. My concern right now is to focus on Conner and get him into the stories in Adventure Comics. He is Superboy, pure and simple.

9. In that vein of Superboy’s return, as well as Bart Allen coming back in Legion of 3 Worlds as well – a reader asked about the longevity of death and the impact of death in comics. Has death been removed as a fundamental change to a character and is now, more or less, a temporary “change” for the character?

DD: Death and resurrection are tools, and have been tools for any writer in comics. Go through the stories from the ‘50s, ‘60s, ‘70s, ‘80s, ‘90s and now, and we’ve had characters die and come back again and again, and each time, more fanciful explanations have been made of why they are. Granted, we’ve probably extended ourselves on the number of deaths that have occured because of the major events, and the need to put big, defining moments in them, but the coming and going of characters have been a staple of comic book storytelling for years.

So now we know. Adventure Comics #1 will Star Conner Kent with a back up featuring Thom still in the present. So no Legion just Starman transferred from JSA to Adv. But hey Brainiac, Lex Luthor and Simple Simon will be featuring in up coming issues, so that's all right then.

Yes. The solicit for issue 1 makes it sound like Adventure is going to be a lot lighter on the Legion than we previously thought. The first issue (or arc) uses Starman and then in subsequent issues, they promise appearances by Lightning Lad and Polar Boy/Sun Boy. But they are interspersed among appearances by Lex Luthor, Brainiac, Simple Simon, Ultra, the Multi Alien, Wonder Girl, and Black Lantern Alexander Luthor. That does not exactly give me hope for the Legion's future.

Well, it looks like DC still doesn't want my business.

It's exhausting trying to read these dregs of tea leaves and decide whether to be optimistic or depressed. And the fact is we won't really know for months where things are headed (if anywhere). But, a few things to contemplate before we all take the gaspipe:

1) In today's DC Comics, you can hardly do better than having Geoff Johns champion the Legion's cause.

2) A successful revival of a Superboy should only be good thing for the Legion in the long run--it's just a natural thing to eventually use them in combination (even if it doesn't happen in issue #1).

3) Having a run of stories highlighting individual Legion characters is also potentially good for the long run IF they are successful at generating fan interest in the individual characters that can meaningfully combine to boost interest in a team book.

4) We do have a Legionnaire starring in Superman right now, which isn't shabby at all. Plus, it's pretty clear that there's a strong 31C connection to his current appearance, and Robinson has basically said this is where Lar Gand explorer and dreamer learns how to be a superhero.

5) We shouldn't forget that FC: Lo3W has been a pretty big (and perhaps surprising) hit for DC.

All of this to me looks like a surprisingly coordinated attempt to fit the Legion back into the DCU, trying to rebuild and repair all the damage done since 1986. My main hope is that they can pick a plan and just stick with it long enough for it to work.

Dadn Didio speaks of Adventure Comics at the Bristol comic expo.

"The return of “Adventure Comics” to the DCU looks like an exciting prospect, with Vice President of Sales Bob Wayne explaining that each issue will have a variant cover numbers -- as if the original series had never ceased publication, so readers could choose to start with number #1 or continue with #504. The man who never sleeps, Geoff Johns, is on board with artist Francis Manapul on art duties in a book which will feature Connor Kent as Superboy in the main feature, with the Legion of Super-Heroes as the back-up. The Legion stories will act to reintroduce the futuristic super-team following the events of “Final Crisis: Legion of 3 Worlds” (which DiDio promised would finish sometime!), focussing on individual key characters (starting with Starman) and then the team as a whole. If successful, there exists the possibility that the Legion will be spun-off into their own main series again at some point in the future."

It would be nice to have a Superboy and the Legion of Super-Heroes again

So now they want me to buy this fake Legion title in the hopes that it might possibly get them to publish a real Legion title. And if I'm not willing to buy their fake Legion title, then they can use that as an excuse to not publish a real Legion title, because it "won't sell."

Thanks a lot, DC. I really appreciate how you've rewarded my loyalty.

Well, it is not EVEN a fake Legion title. It's simply an almanac of second-rate-Superboy stories paired with some 3rd stringer characters who will rotate and some, by the way, were part of the Legion of Super-Heroes.

^^^^^^^^^^^^
Beggars can't be choosers.

Fortunately, we're not beggars; we're customers. And "choosers" is exactly what customers can be.

(And I hate to sound like a broken record about it, but if there's something you like or don't like about what DC's doing, write 'em a letter. They'll never know if you don't tell them.)

I wonder if "Saw your prices in half and then we'll talk about the rest" counts as a letter?

[grumble]

Well, many of us will basically only be buying half a book if we get Adventure.

The real problem is how will they even be able to figure out if people are buying Adventure for Legion or for Superboy. I also expect that it is likely that pure Legion fans may be reluctant to buy Adventure when it features only one character at a time. For instance, I like Thom but have not been following crazy-Starman in JSA, so I have no real interest right now in reading the first Adventure arc.

(snip)

reckless:

Quote

The real problem is how will they even be able to figure out if people are buying Adventure for Legion or for Superboy.

I've been out of the loop for so long that I've forgotten how the mechanics of sales and ordering work. Somebody on another board had to remind me that Diamond is a monopoly in the field now. I don't even remember if stores order comics based on what their customers actually request, or if they use tea leaves, or what? Maybe somebody here can enlighten me. I don't how they'd determine that either.



Finances permitting, I'd probably read anything if I liked the way it was written. Seeing the scans here and elsewhere doesn't really tell me all that much about Johns, though. You can get a strong impression of an artist based on one page of comics. A writer needs more room to stretch out before I can really get a feel for what s/he's trying to do.

Also, I don't like the idea of getting really into a series just in time for some other big giant mega-series crossover that runs on half past forever and contradicts whatever they did in the last mega-series crossover. That stuff seriously annoys me.

Reading the death toll thread here and seeing the penchant for wiping out entire universes of characters (whom I presume somebody loved, even if I don't; wasn't around to meet most of them) strikes me as stupid. It encourages fans to be jaded and indifferent. Why get attached to characters that are going to be stuck in some death-resurrection-death again circus a year from now?

Not to mention that given how lousy things are in the real world, I'm just not all that interested in "escapism" that involves mass slaughter. Even the fictional kind. The thought that some magic lantern could come along and resurrect everyone doesn't make that any better, to me. It just adds another layer to the mindscrew.

I've been mulling over this, whether to add Adventure to my list or just pick up a copy; it's unlikely they'll be sold out. (When the tea leaves fail, there's always/usually the re-order option.) As reckless mentioned, I would be just buying it for half the comic, and half-heartedly at that since crazy Thom is not particularly endearing. It was so good to see him balanced and getting on with the job Brainy sent him to do, but it doesn't seem to have continued.

However, that's condemning the book before I even read it. Who knows? Conner could turn out to be an interesting character. Is it going to be based at the Kents' farm? That could be interesting or at least challenging to the writer. Superhero action is almost exclusively urban. But if it turns out to be pedestrian superhero fare, there's just not enough pull.

If the bloodbath starts, ugh. I suppose everything is going to be tied into Blackest Night to some degree.

Exactly the problem DC had 40 years ago.

A few thoughts:

1) The Legion eventually got it's own title in the 70's (with Superboy) after a series of backup stories in Action and Superboy featuring only a handful of Legionnaires at a time. Some of these stories were Really Good, and helped build up some of the different Legionnaires as interesting characters.

2) Historically, the Legion has provided the canvas for many young artists to propel to popularity and fame. Cockrum, Grell, Giffen, Copiel, and Manapul are all a part of that legacy. Why not add to that list with Mr. Henry?

3) To me, the Legion is not the Legion without a large cast of members interacting within stories. However, I can see DC's interest in moving ahead with patience with the product, because another low-selling reboot disaster would probably shelf the title for years at this point. If done with grace and competency, a collection of short stories with a smattering of Legion characters could be built up to a cresendo of a thoughtful and interesting new Legion title.

The first question that I would like to have answered is: How expensive is this new almanach book going to be? Still 2,99$, or do they just put the all new 3,99$ label on it?

I have to say that I don't care - never did - for Kon-El Superboy and don't give a damn about the adventures he is living through after L3W. Johns writing it might make it interesting, but as far as I can remember, Johns run on Titans did not make Superboy interesting to me so...

Paying - maybe - 3,99$ for a book which is featuring one Legionnaire at a time is definitely not very alluring. I have to confess that I currently am buying Superman for Mon-Els appearances. But I don't think the first two issues were very exciting, don't know how long I'll be staying on board. And now another "One-Legionnaire-book"? Guess I'll probably save my money for the Green Lantern books, which to me seem to be the only healthy DC franchise these days...

^^^ Adventure Comics will be US$3.99.

I won't tell you the scary figure that translates to in Australian $.

If it works in Oz the same as it does in the UK, LCSs put a mark-up on to cover delivery. Lots sell on a straight US$1 to £1 (one British pound) ratio. So a $3.99 comic sells for £3.99 which at today's exchange rate is US$6.34.

Ouch!

Seconded.

So yeah, we don't have anything to complain about in terms of spendage. I'd say we're lucky.

Preview of ADVENTURE COMICS #1

Francis draws some classic Legionnaires! Yum!

[wipes away tears after looking at the preview]

So you'll be lending me your copies then, right?

Just seeing that old script Adventure logo again was about enough to make me cry. It's about bloody time they brought it back too.

Hmmmmm... I'll think about it.

So that five page preview, which took about 15 seconds to completely digest, represents a cost of about $1?

As much as I enjoy Manipul, if they plan on pulling this crap again, I'm out after issue #1.

Manipul is so much more capable than that page 5. Page 4? Not needed. Page 3? well, I suppose not worth saying how I feel those five pages should have been done but...


After two decades of slowly destroying their own media, I'd think they'd realize that these aren't coffee table books. READERS want story.

I thought it was all right...but I'm confused (it's not hard to confuse me). Why is it called "What did Superman do?" when this is SuperBOY?

Has anyone seen the description for the "Co-feature" in Adventure #2?

Yes... here .

because Conner is emulating Superman - going to Smallville High, joining a Super Team etc.

Interesting that Connor's team is the Titans with no reference to his time with the reboot Legion.

best bit about the preview? Knowing that Bart wears his boots to bed.
As for the rest of it... bit dull.

Very dull. Against better knowledge, i preordered it due to the Legion backup. reading the announcement for #2 let's me hope that they're atually up to something with the Legion. Still, two thirds of the book I will probably not even read, cause I never cared for Kon-El Superboy.

Just decided to quit buying the Superman title, so DC won't get much more money out of me...

Well, that happened in the reboot Legion, which is in a different universe, so it was a differant Superboy/Kon-El altogether, I think.

And is this a new clone of Conner or the original body refurbished?
He's past the 'can never grow older' stage, too, right?

I love that things are getting less confusing.

Not really. The Rebooters are from a different universe, but all their time travel adventures were with Earth 0, so it's the same Superboy. I imagine the amount of time he spent with the Titans outweighs the few weeks (maybe months) he spent with the Legion. I didn't have a problem with it.

Where does it say that all of their time travel was with Earth 0?

Why would that happen?

They had a time arc that included Legions of different universes, so, they weren't isolated in anyway that I can tell, from the rest of the DCUs.


Is their Time Trapper not considered real or their universe real?

I know that the loss of their universe wasn't like Zero Hour reboot, at least, originally.
sigh
Anyway, it's getting to the point where who cares, one way or the other?

explained in Lo3W#3 http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5VgL6ZXwk...l+Crisis+Legion+of+Three+Worlds+3-10.jpg

at the SDCC today:

"What Legion or Legions is Connor going to be interacting with in Adventure Comics?" "You'll see every Legion in Adventure Comics, eventually," Johns answered.

Oh joy

I'm very pleased to hear this, myself. This way, everybody gets to see the version of the Legion that they like best, at least once in a while. And it'll be fun if different versions ever team up again in the future.

But!!!!

At eight pages a month it's going to take around three years (in "decompressed storytelling" mode) to finish the first arc!!

And I'm not impressed with the "shocking family secret" in issue 2.

It sounds like another pointless retcon.

Sometimes I think I'm getting too old for all this

Hey, has anyone seen the variant cover for #2? Check it out:

http://manapul.deviantart.com/art/Adventure-Comics-2-Variant-Cvr-131764575

Wow. Thanks, SK!

Thank Manapul for drawing it.

That is quite awesome. I do so love his artwork and especially the way he makes the new suits on the legion work. So so well. If only there was a legion book with Francis on the art fulltime.

Well I guess that's why they invented grass root campaigns, or whatever you call them. And Santeria.

Spill it. What's the secret?

Horseradish is a delightful condiment.

It doesn't really explain why all of the Legion's time travels, reboot and 3boot, took them back to Earth 0's past.
Especially when multiple Legions came to them in universe 247, and Supergirl to 3boot.

She didn't timetravel in the normal bubble kind of way, either.
She followed a Dominator ship from her time, at the speed of light, virtually stopping time for her while traveling in space.
That's really existing in time until pulling out of light speed and finding yourself unchanged.

I agree with 3boot Brainy, not only is the explaination illogical but it's also confusing and silly.

So if I decorate a chicken and leave it on my street corner at the appointed time, Mr. Manapul will draw whatever I want?

Damn. All I've got in the fridge right now is rye bread, marked-down Italian soda, and a chunk of watermelon.

[sulks]

I've worked with worse.

That's one ironbutt Imra on that variant cover.

The variant cover is nice and it has Legion but I'm absolutely enamoured with the original cover, the picnic bench. A nice merging if the center panel of the variant had the other cover but as is, I think I'll ask for the original.


BTW: Who's the girl? That the girl from the bridge? If it's Supergirl, that's kind of creepy considering he's half clone cousin.

Didn't they mention a girl named Lori in an interview? You don't think...

It's Wonder Girl (Cassie). His girlfriend form just before he died.

It's too late to try and cheer me up now.

I hope this link works, because guess who's coming back in October on Adventure #4.

http://dcu.blog.dccomics.com/files/2009/08/adventure-comics4-cmyk.jpg

SP is surrounded by black lantern rings. This is the Superboy story.

Someone (Geoff Johns or Dan DiDio? I forget) has already stated that SP is in Adventure 4&5

Oh, great.

What are all of the little machines?
Are they some survalience cameras or warning devices or maybe, little Quislets?

black lantern rings as featured in the (21st Century) Blackest Night event

They're black lantern rings.

They're Black Lantern rings.
gads

LOL

not only it will appear in Adventure Comics, it will tie-in in another book - REBELs as mentioned in the Source - LInk : http://dcu.blog.dccomics.com/

Vril Dox seems very enthused with the Black Lantern ring...hmmm is there someone dead that he can bring it back as a corpse member of REBELS? hmmm.

Ya know I was gonna come here to share and rant but as usual you guys are a step ahead of me XD.

Seriously tho? Can't they just kill prime and get it over with? Sent Threeboot tenzil there an have him chew off the guys fingers or something..I dunno. Or Mekt..mekt's always good for frying someone.

Le sigh..Vril Vril Vril..I had better hopes for you buddy.

"It?"

Whineyboy, "it" or Black Lantern, "it?" Hopefully not the whiner, I'm running out of books to drop. My CBS was all set to get me Adventure, then the #4 solicits came out. Do I drop L.E.G.I.O.N. too?

it = Black Lantern, sorry for the confusion. Unfortunately it seems that the REBELS need a boost up in the sales to avoid being cancelled as mentioned in Comic Bloc message board and many people were thrilled with it.

Superboy Prime, dude, how can we miss you if you never leave?!?!?

Something else else tells me that there seems to be some "living" characters looking for Black Lantern powers or so. I can see Vril Dox and Superwhine-Bore looking for that kind of power.
But enough with S-P. He's arguably Johns worst creation so far. And that is coming for a guy who created something called Atrocitus.

Yeah, he was 'permanantly taken care of' for what, 20 days?

That's gotta be a new record or something.

Then again, Lo3W was supposed to have ended quite a few months back. Perhaps Didio has been frustrated that he couldn't have the triumphant return of Superbrat be a little further out from his 'defeat.' If the delays had gotten just a little worse, Superbrat might have actually 'returned' before he was sent away!

Never hope that Vril will pass up a chance for more power.
It's idle.
Sorry.

While I'm boycotting ALL things Blackest Night, I do approve of Vril Dox being interested in the Black Lantern rings. It's completely in character for him to want to analyze, understand and/or control any significant source of power, influence or advantage. I'd be disappointed if he didn't. And hey, maybe a few more people will check out R.E.B.E.L.s as a result (man, I.HATE.TYPING.THOSE.PERIODS!)

Good lord that's a beautiful cover. Ordway has really been putting out some exceptionally nice art over the past year or so.

It's almost like he's channeling Neal Adams or something.


You know, while any WWII era art by Ordway is an automatic buy for me, his oldschool style isn't one I've ever really yearned to see on the Legion...

But then again, in hindsight, I never would have wanted to see Curt Swan on the Legion either...and the end result of an oldfashioned Rockwellian type artist like Swan being asked(pretty much forced against his will) to use his imagination to dream up futuristic looking sci fi stuff was some pretty funky looking costumes, buildings and aliens.

It could work.

News from the Chicago Con, that probably doesn't need to be spoiler protected:

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Manapul confirmed that "Adventure Comics" will feature the Legion in Superboy's main story, in addition to their backup stories. Regarding the various Legions, Manapul said that "all three" would appear, and Sattler added that DC needed to establish who the Legion are before they get a dedicated book.</span></span>

I think that's a good idea. It should establish who and what the Legion is and introduce the concept of all three of them to new fans in order to escape from all the confusion gained from trying to figure out all the retcons and glitches in time.

Well, I find that very encouraging news all around. I would love to see Superboy interract with the Legion. I don't know what they will do with all 3 Legions, but I'll be open-minded about it. My guess is the appearances of the other Legions will be limited to things like an "emergency warning from Brainiac 5 of Earth Prime."

I'm just glad that the Legion characters I love the most, if not their universe, are still around and with a chance at a future, however tenuous.

hmm? not sure about that because Superboy Prime was created by Marv Wolfman (maybe alongside George Perez) in Crisis on Infinite Earth, instead of Johns...correct?

He was created by one of Cary Bates or Elliot Maggin, and Curt Swan. His first appearance was not in the COIE proper but in DC Comics Presents, the Superman teamup book.

He wasn't created as a villain either, was actually very noble.

Interestingly enough, he was abducted by some aliens in that initial appearance or something like that, disappeared for a while, and what happened to him during that period was never explained IIRC.


I've always had the feeling he was created as part of some kind of plan for a Superman reboot but that plan was never used so they just put him in limbo.

Not Superboy Prime... AGAIN... I mean, how over-used is he as a villain? Infinite Crisis, Sinestro Corps War, Countdown featured him, then L3W... can't they just leave him be for at least a year until they get him back from "our" Earth Prime?

remmy the L3W has been postponed a year...if the L3W were made on time, then it would be a year before we see Superboy Prime.

Never again would be too soon.

My sentiments exactly.

It's good news, but I have come to believe that it's a mistake to take too long doing stuff like this. I think that if that's all it is, DC would do better to get it over with quickly.

Maybe, he's been possessed by some alien dead thing and that's why he's been acting the way he hss and why he's been even more invulnerable than Supes originally was.

During 'Blackest Night', the dead thing is pulled from his body by the rings and he can finally go home, repent of being a fanboy, visit Lori in the hospital and join Legion Prime.

Happy ending and best of all, no more villian Prime.
(Probably not.)

You're RIGHT! It's the Jerkallax entity. How could we have missed all the clues? lol

Would be too funny if you're right. They probably developed that story in Ambush Bug #6 and that's why it got pulled.

Oh I hope those shipments of ADV get lost into a black hole.

Superboy has already answered that one, but the murderous boring one-dimentional pap is a Johns product. Much like Swamp Thing was created by Len Wein, but was re-defined by Alan Moore.
And I bet Ambush Bug was pulled for tearing out Black Lanterns.

What's the color on the emotional spectrum for Jerkalax? Probably a nice poo brown.

If we start seeing the "Poo Brown" Lanterns, I'm done with comics.

What can brown do for you? Get you to stop reading comics!

Can it get you to stop reading... THIS?

http://dcu.blog.dccomics.com/2009/08/11/just-in-time-legion-of-super-heroes-co-feature/

The Fwoosh

Speaking of Lanterns, there's somebody over on LJ who uses a "Blackest Night" icon every time he posts. All I can think of every time I see it is:

"Eat my cosmic-powered Sno-Cone-- OF <strike>DEATH!!</strike> <strike>RESURRECTION!!</strike> RESURRECTION & DEATH!!"

No, I don't drink during the day. Why do you ask?

I was completely underwhelmed by those. Moreover, Johns is retconning again, since it is probably the first time since Infinite Crisis that Superboy is said to have been wearing his Superboy clothes in this chronology (was he Superboy in the 20th century again?). And what's up with LSH, that seems to have lost 20 years each? Are they teenagers again?
Artwork is very generic, not much better than that guy who did LSH #50. If that is what Legion will be in the next few months, 8 pages are more than enough for that.

You're venturing into Sears Catalog territory!

What is wrong with Superman's face on those pictures, its like its smushed to the middle. I know its only 3 pages but I hope they let go of superman and tell Legion stories. I'm not a superman fan and grew up with superman-less legion comics. I endure him in back issues

The art is...okay. I've seen Henry produce better, for instance the fight between Vulcan & The Imperial Guard in Uncanny X-Men. The facial composition as a whole needs alittle work, especially Lightning Lad.

I see that Clayton Henry's art is as dull as usual... sadly.

Fwoosh rawks! I would SO be selected for one of those rings. I can see it now: "DoubleChinner of Earth--you show superior sloth, passive aggressiveness, and ability to poo. You have been selected as Brown Lantern for Space Sector 2814." To the bathroom, away!

Things I love about the new Legion Splash Page:

1) Bikini Shadow Lass. It's the 1970s again, baby. Before Reagan harshed the mellow! Seriously, There's just NOTHING better than bikini Shadow Lass.

2) A less butch, but still obviously iron-butt Saturn Girl. Her face looks almost like a young Glenn Close, who I always thought would be good model for Imra.

3) Bouncing Boy! I should have listed this as number 1. After years of "he's too silly," Chuck Taine is a real Legionnaire again. Hallelujah!

4) Night Girl. Wonder if she and Cos are still an item?

5) Lightning Lad. It's taken a long time, but I've warmed to the new, more impulsive and sleevless Garth. At least he has a personality distinct from Imra and Rokk that doesn't require possession by Proty to explain it.

6) Brainy got a haircut. Who says there's no continuity of the important things?

7) Duplicate Damsel, in a skirt. Luornu crying in the Adventure Mordru story is one of the emotional touchstones of my youth, paired with reading Chuck's proposal and her joyful acceptance.

Things I don't like:

1) Feoreheads just too big. See Superman and Phantom Girl. Reminds me of "This Island Earth"

2) Lightning Lass. Sorry, I vastly prefer "Light Lass"

3) Timber Wolf. GRRRRRR! Give me a break.

4) Dawnstar. Dawnstar, more than anyone, should always fly gracefully. Here, she looks like me using a flight ring for the first time.

The no-sleeves thing works for *one* character's costume revamp. Having Garth, Jo *and* Brin in sleeveless suits is overkill. It's like someone just discovered the wife-beater and thought, 'hey, let's have *everybody* wear one!'

That's hardly a problem with the new artist, just left-over kvetching about Johns stylistic changes.

As for the new guy, he does seem to make the faces look like celebs and stuff (I also noticed the Glenn Close Imra, and is it me, or is that Famke Jannsen playing Shady?). Although Garth looks less like a celebrity and more like Syndrome, from The Incredibles!

Bare arms are the new <strike>black</strike> bare midriffs.

Syndrome! After all, I AM your biggest fan!

I'm crying myself to sleep tonight...

Ayla and Tinya have also gone with the sleeveless look, which works better on them (although I like Tinya in a fuller costume).

Dawnstar, inexplicably, is wearing long sleeves, along with her one-piece bikini with boob window... A dozen Athramites are flailing around blind, after seeing that outfit. Won't she think of the poor Athramites?

Meh. Brown Lanterns. I'm holding out to join the Octarine Lanterns, although I'm not proud, and will join the Indigo Lanterns, if that falls through.

If that thing they crammed poor Dawny into is a "window," Tellus is a herring.

Feh.

Hey!!!!!!!!

Oh well.

One man's treasure is another woman's trash.

Hypercritical much? I think Henry's artwork looks great. We've certainly had much worse artwork on Legion and should consider ourselves lucky that they gave us somebody this good, especially for a backup feature, which the Legion now is.

Do you not recall the utter crap "art" that graced LSH #50, the last regular Legion book? We could've been stuck with that artist!

I remember a lot of people on here hated Olivier Coipel's work at first and then later mourned his loss when he moved on. Give the new guy a chance. I predict he'll grow on you.

Don't know if anyone noticed this, but above the description and pics it says on DC's site:
Just in time: LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES co-feature.

Just in Time? Justin Thyme?

you'll get nowhere accepting the average. It could be worse, it could be leonardi but that doesn't mean Henry is immune to criticism because he's OK

I don't know how one page with a few panels and a double page group shot, can be 'boring'.

I'll need a lot more than that to decide, since I don't have any history with this artist.

The costumes have been mostly inherited from Perez and others, recently, haven't they?

I think individual artists who work on a project for a lengthy time should be able to update costumes without any hassles or regulations.
Especially on the Legion who aren't so iconic, artists should be able to have a little fun.

I DO love that Henry's using 'models' for his Legionnaires.
I much prefer that approach.
I hope he expands his characters for a truly unique look for his Legion.

Where exactly are we trying to "get" by not accepting this artist? Do you really think anybody at DC cares about our complaints about artwork?

And the last 3 costume overhauls were not done by artists who'd been on the book for any length of time. Kitson redid them all when he started on the book. Then Manapul redid them all again when he started and Gary Frank(?) redid them all again in the Action Legion story. I'm not saying they should never be changed again, but the Legion's in a state of flux right now, with 3 Legions floating around, no title of their own, relegated to a backup feature that's going to rotate all 3 Legions, etc. Constantly changing their look isn't going to help them get re-established in the DCU, imho of course.

Francis and Barry were certainly on the book as long as Cockrum (about a year and a half) was and probably Grell, too, who made most of his changes very early on.

I recognized everyone in Henry's work, anyway, even if I don't particularly like a lot of them.

I personally think that the art on the preview pages is better than what I have seen from a lot of past Legion artists. Yes, issue #50 couldn't have been worse.

What about #47?

Because there were only 8 pages to work with and this artist with no history on the book is already doing the "iconic" shot? IMO, they'd have been wiser to wait until the artist had more time with the characters.

It was, compared to past efforts, a pretty bland groupshot IMO. Not very dynamic, just individuals placed? No sense of motion? I don't know if I can really characterize it. It just didn't work for me.

Yes! Yes! Yes!

No! No! No!




Franks and this guy should get together and create a Frankenstein Legion. Big eyes, huge foreheads and hollow cheeks.

I hadn't but that "Best Free Web Game" caught my eye.

Whoa... Singing in the Rain flashback..

Yes no no

I'm surprised that this isn't being discussed here -

FAN EXPO: DC Universe

Should we comment on the fact that the Legion wasn't even mentioned once, or the fact that obviously the Legion's run on Adventure Comics is now finite?
We all know how DiDio doesn't understand nor care about the Legion, so I'm not surprised.

It may not have been mentioned at Fan Expo but it was mentioned at Baltimore that they will be appearing with Supergirl following the Annual.

Wasn't the Adventure run always going to be finite? I seem to recall Levitz saying that he had the book for as long as he wanted it or somesuch so it may just be a natural end for the stories there.

Or it could just drop back into the back-up position with the Atom moving elsewhere.