Super Hussy returns in all her glory!

Colossal Boy is Micro no more!

The age old question "Boxers or Briefs?" seems outdated in the 31st century.

Vi is not the only Legion Lass with big guns.

Even semi-conscious, Jo is always on the make!

Who knew? Reep is a nudist!

...and much much more!

In Gim's room, there is a shelf full of model spaceships, and another one on a desk with some tools! Gim working on miniature models of things, who wouldn't thunk it?

He also seems to have a thing for sports star Suzy Porter. Then again, Garth has a poster of Rokk on his wall, so perhaps i shouldn't read too much into that...

I kinda like how Garth is floating behind Brainy while he works. Neat to see casual uses of powers (or, in this case, equipment).

Still kinda bummed that the art isn't as clear as it was in the first few issues of this run, but I guess FJM had a lot more time to work on those first issues.

I love how, in the absence of Mon-El or Superboy/girl/man/pig, Jo is such a 'heavy hitter.' I love getting to see people who don't have Kryptonian-level powers getting a chance to shine and strut their stuff.

This issue was just slightly less awesome than last issue, but it was still an excellent read.

I noticed that when Lyle's dad congratulated him on showing interest in a girl, the word "girl" was emphasized. Does this imply anything about Lyle's, uh, preferences?

Jo is lucky Garth didn't see him smoochin' Imra. It's interesting how Imra reacted to the kiss, though. I think she must be feeling neglected by Garth, especially after the end of the previous issue.

We now have one Legionnaire who's constantly naked, two Legionnaires who like being naked, and just about all the other Legionnaires have paraded around in their underwear at some point in the last few issues. They should just declare Legion HQ to be a clothing-optional zone.

This was definitely a great read with lots of pretty pictures. I really hope that TPTB keep Shooter and Manapul around as long as possible.

I also hope that Matter-Eater Lad and Wildfire (and maybe Evolvo Lad) show up soon alongside Element Lad, Dream Girl, & Sun Boy.

This was fun - lots of action and mystery, even if the aliens were basically the Borg except for assimilation. It took a while, but I think the book is starting to turn into one where I am beginning to want to turn the pages.

Another plus - no Projectra and her wet-blanket subplot!

I kinda have to disagree with you Set that I put more time into the earlier issues. I feel that I've put more into the newer issues as I go along. I think the difference with the first 2 issues to the current ones is that I'm now more focused on storytelling and doing simpler panel layouts than before to put Jim's story first my art second. If anything I wished I could scale it back since the panels just don't have any room to "breathe" but Jims scripts don't allow you to do too many short cuts ;)I definitely spend more sleepless nights in the later issues than I did the first 2.
if anyones interested in checking out the pencils I've posted a bunch of them in my gallery at : http://manapul.deviantart.com/

I quite enjoyed it. There was a lot to like - the Legionnaires having to be creative in the uses of their powers to defeat the monsters, Lightning Lad and Brainiac 5 having a discussion in a calm manner (so unlike the ridiculously confrontational Cosmic Boy/Brainiac 5 interaction,) the duplicitousness of the UP and I also love how Shooter is slowly turning away from the intergenerational conflict angle which I never bought into. Having Lyle reconcile with his father is a good "in" to walking away from the creepy way adults were seen to interact, without just wishing it into the cornfield.

If we really do lose this Legion in favor of the Legion of Ersatz Heroes I'm going to be greatly disappointed.

as usual, the visual composition of this book is awesome. I have enjoyed seeing the rooms of the different LSH members. it's a nice quick visual guide to what the person is like. Brainy's look in the mirror. priceless. or a couple of issues ago, when the monitor board gave lots of info in the background, while tons of stuff was happening in the foreground. great work Francis and Shooter.

Carmine's Custom Actionwear. I love that title. I could just picture Joe Pesci giving a sales pitch about how great his suits are.

is it just me, or is Cham finally acting as alien(?) as you would expect a member of a shape shifting race to be. my prior read on him was typical teen that looks a bit different.

to echo matlock, I will be sorry to lose this group.

I haven't seen the issue yet, but I checked out your pencils Francis, and like them a lot. Sometimes the inking obscures the art, I've found, so please don't feel bad. In the past, I've posted that I'm not fond of the anime hair you put on some characters, but if that's all I have to complain about (and that IS all I have to complain about), you're doing a great job.

again, imra's portrayal made me vomit. i'm not a fan of the story's pacing, they've fought these monsters like 50 times now, get to the point!

seeing colossal boy's cute room as awesome, and cham's facial expressions made me so happy. "so you're always naked?" "YES! " is the greatest thing ever. charm's facial expressions were so fucking cute, i love his face!! and garth's CUTE CUTE spinning.

ahhhhh and the NEW OUTFITS that i have been waiting for since the start of this run!! the cool, slick new uniforms!! i was a little confused at imra/every character's reference to her new outfit as being more feminine, in my opinion it's, IF anything, less feminine. but only by like... a decimal point? they're both completely body covering, yes? except one had a cape, yes? anyone else find it bizarre?

the fight scenes in this were very well depicted, i could follow everything that was happening. *sobs* my favorite art with my least favorite writing ;__; why is god so cruel to me? even with the writing, shooter does very cute certain things, but... the rest of the time i'm cringing so hard.

oh and does lyle's mom have nothing to say about everything going on?!! oh wait, she's a lady, of course not. because i am psychotic, i noticed that his mother's name also changed from "ryna" in the waid run to "marlas" in this issue.

i also noticed the "oh thank god you're dating a GIRL". i feel this is more shooter saying this than lyle's dad. during his whole run shooter's been making real sure that we know he-likes-girls-just-girls-forever. GIRLS.

IMO this book was excellent and both Shooter and Manapul really hit their stride. I thought the art was pretty spectacular, especially the action scenes.

I loved the nanoorganic creatures...the action was fast, the interaction between Brainy and LL was fun.

The Imra scene was...well it was shocking, and I think that was the point. Shooter rattled the heck out of that old cage.

I hope DC decides to keep this book and I hope Shooter and Manapul are involved with the Legion for a while....this is one of the best versions.


I don't have any great desire for all the romance stuff, but I don't think they are all children...that's not the way Waid was writing them. I mean they are risking their lives and being planetary defenders...they might die at any point on a mission...so they obviously aren't minors, or at least not all of them are.

it was very nice to see that ultra boy was the greatest weapon against the aliens cause of his powers

i not sure i liked that lyle and his parents made up i liked knowing the reason lyle ran off to join the legion even if it did make his parents assholes was nice, aside from lyle's dad hitting him, the man was selling his life's work, that really shouldnt have cleared up that quickly

i love how Brainy and LL had there little chat, talking from the alien bad guys to clothing being on sale, makes me wonder what else is on brainy computer that he doesn't want any one to see. also it was nice to have brainy insult someone that he didn't come off as a huge dick, it felt more like a playful aside, i loved how brainy just explained every thing with out being a condescending prick

okay so who thinks the legion biggest secret is that mon-el is still alive?

The fight on on Rimbor was amazing. Star Boy's air hammers and Ultra Boy's super-human projectile are *new* stuff, never seen before in a Legion comic, iirc. If this issue were a movie, I would've stood up and clapped.

I was even more impressed by the Chameleon revelation -- that Shooter found a way to say something completely new (but completely in character) about a Legionnaire created 48 years ago. That's his genius.

The inability of the Destroyer thingie to eradicate a flower has to be an important clue, but I have no clue what it's about.

Yes, 3boot Imra in her pseudo-bikini uni is now officially a space-floozie, but I have to to give her credit for being as capable, innovative and "macho" a field leader as the Legion ever had. If the kiss leads to anything more, Jo is going to find a Talokian ax in his head, methinks.

Though the Lyle/Lon scene appealed to me to the parent in me, I have to agree the "girl" thing was too much. Would Lon have been so chipper if Lyle was in love with a boy? That's not the most important aspect of it, however. Shooter buries the "kids vs adults" premise six feet under and no one can complain about it anymore. Now it's all about money, and the greed, ambition and resentment of petty government beaurocrats. Hey, just like real life!

A moment of sublime ridiculousness -- Brainy preening before a mirror in his new "body armor". I simply adore him, and I'm loving the comedy team dynamic between him and Garth. Brainy hurls insults and they roll off levitating Garth like water rolls off a duck's back. Brainy and Cos was two flags. Brainy and Garth is six flags.

"The Leader Who Lost the Legion", huhn? The cadence reminds me of "The Lad Who Wrecked the Legion" and other trippy Silver Age titles. I think it's Shooter's way of telling us not to fret too much. It won't be another foray into darkness and despair -- it's going to be fun.

Oh wow, these reviews have me STOKED... "The Leader Who Lost The Legion", eh? heh... I *LOVE* it.

Tromium said:

The fight on on Rimbor was amazing. Star Boy's air hammers and Ultra Boy's super-human projectile are *new* stuff, never seen before in a Legion comic, iirc. If this issue were a movie, I would've stood up and clapped.

I was even more impressed by the Chameleon revelation -- that Shooter found a way to say something completely new (but completely in character) about a Legionnaire created 48 years ago. That's his genius.

MLLASH sez: I can't WAIT to read this issue now!

on the lyle/lon thing - i was like "man, lyle, your dad hit you, i thought you were so cool for being like 'fuck that noise!'!", i totally agree/ i know he wants to bury the thing with adults but... you know the adults need to behave better!

on the big secret? i thought a) dream girl's disembodied soul (or something) in brainy's head or b) the flight rings since the rings keep being more prominent. c) ....sw6 clones.

A)well a few people know about that so i dont think that counts as a secret right?

B)i thought the rings secrets were sold last issue

OH MY GOD c) hahahahahahahaha yes that i what i want it to be now

The art seemed a little sloppier than usual to me as well. I will blame it on the inker as fjm usually has such crisp, clean lines.

Although the adaptable beast thingies are becoming tiresome, full points to Shooter for continuing to find original ways to use the Legionnaire's individual powers. They barely used them, even in a straight forward way, in Waid's run.

People, people, keep the expletives clean -- or at least, stick to the 31st century slang. I have children who read these boards!

Perhaps with all the Shooter rumors, I read this issue savoring every panel. Perhaps not coincidence this was the most enjoyable issue for me in a LOOONNNGG time. Everything just WORKED in this issue!

1) Colossal Boy's model building dorm room (complete with magnifying lens).

2) The mystery of the new unis (love that word!). Leave it to Shooter to make new costumes an ongoing plot point!

3) Ultra Boy's almost comment about Saturn Girl's new uni. Imra's response was awesome!

4) Naked? YES! Just priceless.

5) The battle on Rimbor. The BEST Legion slug-fest in years. Perhaps too bad we had to wait 5 issues to get there, but it was worth the wait. Heavy air columns! Jo's power-switching confusing the killer Adaptoids! Imra's iron-butt field command! Do Atom Girl's guns work when she's tiny? Apparently so!

6) Brainiac's surreptious self-admiration! Lightning Lad hanging around upside down in Brainy's lab! This is how young adults behave!

7) Invisible Kid's reconciliation with his father! This really felt like valedictory for Waid's generational conflict. The undertones of homophobia were unwelcome. I guess one could interpret Mr. Norg's comment as "I'm glad he's showing interest in girls and not just test tubes" or the like.

8) Ultra Boy steals some sugar from ... Saturn Girl! And ... she likes it! Aw yeah! Imra's gettin' her hussy on! Again, this is how young adults behave. Just because Imra thinks Jo is a great kisser doesn't mean she's gonna cheat on or dump Garth. If nothing else, she finds something redeemable (other than his powers) about Jo. Awesome!

9) The killer adaptoid blasting the flower! I don't know why I liked it! What year is this? Flower power, dude!

10) The return of Popoff! I feel I should point out that Karl Rove held the title of deputy chief of staff before his fall from invulnerability.

Just such a fun, fun issue. Thank you Jim and Francis and Livesay.

i agree with most of the comments here. it was a great, fun read.
i LOVE how Shooter packs the script full with so much dialogue and information and references and humor. this would've been 3 issues for a lot of today's writers.
the side dialogue with Brainy and LL was great! an actual conversation that lasts longer than 3 panels!

the Lyle/parents dinner conversation fell a little flat with me.
it's like the art and script didn't maximize each other. i noticed fun little bits like the changing cgi landscape paintings in the dining room. but the visual storytelling didn't convey the emotion in my opinion. as for the "finally interested in a girl" comment, i felt it easily could have been meant as finally interested in romance/dating/sex but Shooter could have used a non-gender way of saying that. also mom is shooting dad a disapproving look as he says it. just for the record, Waid is the one who introduced Lyle's crush on Supergirl.
the legion team (and the creative team) being forced to fight imaginatively was very enjoyable. it reminds me of old Claremont Xmen battles.
i am ready for the adversary to advance to something else now though. i'm tired of the no-personality, alive-or-not beasties.
i'd love to see the LSH battle the UP Young Heroes.

finally we get the new uni's!!! (although, i hate Atom Girl's static cling hair big time.) Manapul does some things great like conveying difficult concepts as the "air-hammers" and other fight scene choreography, or little character touches like LL floating behind Brainy. sometimes i feel he misses an opportunity to zoom in close like the Saturn Girl/Ultra Boy kiss. unfortunately, the coloring does him little favors. Cham's sudden transformation into the huge 3 headed creature as a battle tactic/distraction is largely lost because everything is too dark and too red/orange.

this is nit-picking though, because really great work is being done and i am really enjoying the issues. it DOES feel like the legion suddenly. YAY! i hope Shooter/Manapul are encouraged to stay with the book for their 16 issues.

I find myself enjoying each issue more and more.

When I met Francis at Pittsburgh last month, he told me about the new costume scene and Cham's nudism and his excitement when talking about the scene pretty much mirrored Cham's expression. It really shows through when people love their work.

I have liked the new costumes ever since the promo image was first released and it's great that these cotumes are finally appearing in the story.

I rather liked this issue. I thought the use of the Legionnaire's powers against the aliens was excellent and the revelation about Cham was genius. I do think it's a little odd that no-one questions where the new outfits came from more than they do though. New outfits are one thing, new outfits that no-one knows anything about are quite another.

With regards to the art though I do think that it's suffering badly either from the inks or the colouring (or possibly both). With this issue I found myself checking a couple of times to see that it was Francis all the way through because some of the pages (especially the fight scenes on Rimbor) looked really rushed compared to the last few issues. Then looking at the pencils on Francis' site they have the same kind of clarity and crispness that previous issue have had so it's clearly not an issue with the pencils. It's a shame because I think there's some great visual storytelling there that's washed out a bit by scratchy inks and murky colours. Hopefully that's just a blip with this issue though.

The story arc is good, but only this.
Good fight scenes, good interaction between legionaires and more subplots...
But I have 5 issues without Sun Boy, Element Lad and Dream Girl (Or Dream Boy).
And don't forget Cosmic Boy, Wildfire and Tenzil...lost in the limbo...
The new costumes......not the better in the Legion history.
And finally, Manapul's art is ugly.
In some panels almost primary....
Please, change the manga style! It's like a bad copy of Chris Bachalo.

I think Legion #42 was top notch. The story was excellent - paced well with a lot of little gems within as well as movement of the main plot. I think the art is great and the coloring of the fight on Rimbor really set the mood of a large scale battle. This is the best the Legion has been in the last three years, and it continues to get better.

Even though I'm not a huge Ultra Boy fan, Mr. Shooter has done great things for him this issue, and with him featured on next issue's cover with that awesome image, I am very much looking forward to his story next issue.

Ultra Boy looked very Kirby-esque.
Saturn Girl just rocked so hard!
Chameleon is acting more like his animated version, that's a good thing.
I love Atom Girl's hair, but I detest the skirt!
Honestly, have you ever gone into battle in a mini? I have, and believe you me, it's no picnic!
If Lightning Lad gets any cuter, I'm gonna start carving "Garth" into my forearm whenever I'm bored.
and finally...
A great, big THANK YOU to Francis for having Cham turn into me!
I mean, I posed nude for him like, MONTHS ago!

Atom Girl's name, costume, and hairdo have GOT to go.

Her name's Shrinking Violet, dammit. And her anti-gravity hair is awful, as is her costume.


I too am not wild about the art but thought it was a good, densely written story. I too miss Sun Boy and Dream Girl. And Element Lad and Triplicate Girl. And Tenzil can come back any time.

luv the issue as well. finally got Manapul's costumes in play! great to see them. my only gripe with the new creative team in general is the colorist, JD Smith. too watercolory and blotty and inconsistent. I think DC should bring in Moose Baumann or the Hories to take over the title, both can do great sci-fi. in terms of characters to bring in, Drake Burroughs, maybe Tenzil Kem. both had tremendous presence during the Bedard/Calero run. aesthetic-wise, I hope Dream Boy and Element Lad get new unis. Jan Arrah in a green/white scheme doesnt work for me, maybe green/yellow. Star Boy already has a white cape, dont need another one. I want to Sun Boy's and Cosmic Boy's too. plus, too many ppl in the team have a black/white scheme. OK, I'm done ranting.

sorry. freudian slip. I want to SEE Sun Boy's and Cosmic Boy's UNIS too. dont want the message to be read in a wrong context. NOW I'm done!

no they need to go back to what they had originally for sunboy that was the perfect costume for him

Another well-written issue, a very good read after reading the convoluted Final Crisis #1 immeadiately before...

I liked Ultra Boys very powerful performance - yes, he can do all this! - and his snappy behavior towards Imra, even though I still hope he will get his Tinya in the end... it's destiny...

Shooter still tries to tell a story without too many question marks. Unlike the oh-so-hot Grant Morisson in FC, he give us a reason for everything: Why there are new uniforms, why the politics hate the Legion and so on. I like that cause I hate constantly rereading captions desperately searching for the deeper meaning in them...

So yes, still like Shooters stint and hope we will be getting a little mote of it. I'm starting to get really interested in who is behind these Destoyer ducks...

Great continuing story. I like the way the alien destroyer plot is unfolding; we learn something more about them each issue, just as do the legionnaires. It extends the story through multiple issues without being repetitive.

I had to look it up after suspecting it, but Ta Rshish/Tarshish was associated with Jonah in the biblical story.

Legionnaires with weapons - that hasn't been seen too often in their history. Atom Girl's blasters are a fixture; now Saturn Girl carries a gun. Is this to compensate for low physical power levels? In that case, Invisible Kid should have one, too.

Brainy is improving, personality-wise, relative to Waid's Vril-like version. I'm glad that Shooter didn't use some event like a break-down to change his personality; he just shaved off some of the coldness and distance. No explanations needed. Still, Lightning Lad should have called him on that "I've got a feeling" business when they were examining the data on the alien destroyers. The vanity aspect of Brainy's character - admiring himself in his new uniform - is new, although we got a hint of it in an earlier 3boot issue, when he was dreaming of being much more powerful. It seems to me that, in the past versions, he would have been plenty vain about his mental abilities but shown total disregard for anything physical.

Popoff is an interesting opponent for the Legion. Devious, hiding behind bureaucracy; his power is the power of the state, not a physical or mental power which the legionnaires must confront. It seems to me that they are fairly naive with respect to this sort of power, although Saturn Girl and Brainiac 5 appear to have a better appreciation for its dangers.

Lon Norg struck me as a jerk of a father. Lyle may indeed be happy to be reconciled with him (or was that a tear shed because he knew he would betray him?) but he certainly was anxious to get away from Lon's control and judgement.

Saturn Girl's personality: she is still the strong-willed, determined Imra that I have admired, although the "great kisser" comment struck a false note with me. In #41, I took her bedroom talk with Garth to be teasing and sarcastic rather than serious. It also seemed logical that she would regard Ultra Boy as a macho jerk. I would have had her perhaps enjoy the kiss but not admit it to herself....

Regarding the alien destroyers, Brainy claims that at a certain level, life and lifelike tech blur. So what's the difference? The legionnaires have been dispatching these things with fervor - so have they been killing them, or destroying machines?

Loved Star Boy's new starfield cape! It has displaced the cape worn by the Prime Councilor of Vash as the best Legion cape.

I feel that would have helped the scene a bit.

Mystery Lad's pointing out in his Calling the Roll that there similarily was smoochage between Jo and Imra in Legion Lost. But back then they were both mutually initiating the kiss, and the writing did acknowledge there being a guilt component, what with them being in other relationships and all. I bought that scene as a character moment, however soap-opera-y the whole love quadrangle the two kissers were part of might have turned out.

The issue 42 kiss redux on the other hand really fails to make me feel any empathy for the characters - quite the opposite, what with their simple-minded, gender-clichéed actions. Can't we leave that whole "Overwhelm her with your manliness, she'll LOVE it!" stuff back in the fifties, where it can maybe keep company to "She's hysterical, slap her out of it" and its ilk?

That old chestnut where there's a guy planting one on a girl (never the other way round - wouldn't have anyone think that she's loose with her affections, oh no) with the lame, responsibility-absolving excuse that he's kind of out of it at the moment*, and is then rewarded with his actions being a surefire way to her heart (or at least her knickers) really, really has overstayed its welcome. Jo's presented as cool here - when he flies off, all determined to wreak further havoc on the enemy, all irresistably powerful, the reader's probably supposed to admiringly go "DAMN, what a MAN!" alongside Imra (whether you find him as sexually alluring as she does is left up to you, I guess).

*and why these exuses? Being temporarily brain-addled isn't actually absolving Forceful Snogger Lad of anything - after all, it's not as if he's apologizing afterwards, just in case his attentions were unwanted.

I kinda don't feel the Garth-Imra relationship if she's that easily influenced by whoever is most "manly".

Lyle and his father making up that fast struck a false note with me - much too easy after how disastrous their relationship was portrayed before (I took Lyle's tear at face value - father and son happily reunited).

Their scene together also fails to reconcile the self-isolating nature of the "normal" UP citizens who still have to get used to face-to-face contact with Dad's elation that his son is on the best way to becoming a "real man": all manly heroics and girls (what's next, captain of a sports team?), "healthy boy interests" when compared to being a nerdling who locks himself in to play with his petri dishes. It's kinda puzzling that Dad should be so keen on that stuff when the civilisation-wide ideal has before de facto always been to lock yourself in with your petri dishes.

As for the emphasis being so much on the word "girl", as has been mentioned upthread - although it amuses me to think of Lon Norg tearing his hair out while Lyle's tearing around the block with ever-new boyfriends ("where will the grandchildren come from, quiet, disapproving-looking wife of mine?") I feel as if that "girl"-comment wasn't supposed to either indicate that Lyle's been going for guys so far, nor an attempt to frantically assure that, no, no, this boy isn't gay, in fact he's the straightest of the straight. To me it felt more like even the mere idea of homosexuality isn't considered a possibility, simply doesn't exist in a future scenario where your success-level as a boy/man depends to a great degree on your non-nerdiness, your ability to go ape-shit on your enemies and your kissing the girls.

3boot - suddenly it's the 31st century partially stuck in the sixties.

That said, I must proclaim my love for Atom Girl's hair. It's the hairiest; even more beautiful than all the gorgeously rendered fight scenes in this issue. I aspire to once have hair as fantastic as hers.

I haven't read this issue yet, but I understand IG's response to the simplistic emotional scenes (if they play out as described.)

Lyle hasn't been shown to have 'gay' interests this boot (his crush on Kara) but Dad's comments would make it seem to be an issue on his mind.

The reality though seems to be that homosexuality, like other minority lifestyles/types,
is up and down in cultures. Or rather, in or out.
This whole Legion era seems to be intolerent of anything different or challenging. They don't even like their children!
Sad.

The whole interested in girls thing didn't strike me at all as a gay thing. I thought his dad was just happy that Lyle was expressing interest in something that wasn't a test tube or research computer, given that Lyle has spent his youth being a science prodigy.

Lon Norg has shown growth from that first scene where he hit Lyle. Being confronted with the notion that he'd gotten his job because of meddling from the supervillain in the first WaK arc, and then being called in for favors by his son at various other points, this feels like something that has been occuring in the background ever since that first scene with him hitting his son. It's completely organic to the story, and the hitting incident, from both Lyle, Lon and 'mom's' reaction to it, was clearly a shocking moment for all of them.

Heck, I think it would have been unrealistic, after all that they've been through, for Lon Norg *not* to have changed his views some. Why, after all, would he continue to help his son behind the scenes, if he was still stuck in that single moment of anger we saw three years ago and that we haven't seen since?

On the other hand, it might be interesting to find out that Lon getting his son sprung had some consequences and he's going to have to pay an ugly price for that...

As for the Imra / Jo kiss thing, it didn't strike me as anything worse than the Yera / Dirk kiss in Action. A fun moment, not some sort of political statement about gender roles.

Yes, that was what I was trying to say in my run-on-sentency way: dad is simply damn happy that his boy is developing “healthy alternatives” to his nerdy shut-in ways. Even if there was an odd emphasis on “girls” in Lon’s “Finally! My son is dating a GIRL!” I don’t think that it was put in there to throw anybody off the idea that Lyle might be gay, because in this very conventional “injustice-fighting, dating-minded son-to-be-proud-of”-scenario there simply is no place for any potential homosexuality.

Obviously I didn’t bring across what I meant.

Even with that sound reasoning I don’t feel Lon’s great redemption, it is simply too off-panel for me. On the other hand I sure as hell wouldn’t want his development to be given the time it needs to be emotionally believable - then we’d have The Legion of Super-Heroes and Lon Norg’s Slow Ascent to Good Fatherhood, and a Legionnaire’s random parent certainly isn’t interesting enough to warrant such extensive attention. Can’t they just drop that guy, preferably on his blocky head?

Aha, finally found that scene! And boy, is it ever a bummer.
http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/5248706.html

Hey, she really doesn’t want to kiss that guy, so let’s force her! After all, it’s hilarious when one of the participating parties finds a sexual act/an act of intimacy/something which should be fun repulsive.

What on earth is the intention behind such a scene? Pandering to the belief that women – all of them uninterested in sex – are unfairly hoarding all this delicious sexing potential and the guys – all horn dogs – have to swindle or trick them out of it? Can’t it simply be two people kissing because they both want to kiss?

I really don’t think that the writers are trying to make a political statement. I don’t think they’re trying to say “Hey! Girls back in the kitchen!” But I do think that when they’re dealing with gender interaction they’re serving up clichéd writing – hell, in the case of the Action Legion, I think their stereotyping flat-out sucks.

Be it S&M Garth and Imra, Imra and Jo, or Yera and Dirk – I bet you can’t find these scenarios in a main-stream comic with the roles reversed.

In the first case, main stream comic logic would dictate that Garth being dominated would equal him being "unmanly". In the second case, well, it would make Imra a “hussy”, and in the third case the kissing approach wouldn’t be an appropriate way to wake a girl, because, hey, girls don’t like that kind of stuff as much as guys do – but at least the guy wouldn’t be repulsed, because kissing girls would be right up his alley. Next time, take a first aid kit with you instead, Brainy, you stupid…

You never get scenarios such as these the other way around, and I, for one, am tired of seeing these impressive feats of stereotyping played out again, and again, and again.

I actually find the most blatant stereotyping to be of Ultra Boy. He's a (presumably) petty criminal, gang member, ergo thick in the head... this portrayal has persisted for several years and it's a bit of a disappointment after the clever and devoted Jo Nah we saw in 5YL. The kissing scene with Saturn Girl in this issue is more of a stereotype of him than of her.

The Yera-Dirk thing was sort of a roll-eyes event and didn't make a lot of sense - unless it was a practical joke of Brainy's, which seems even less likely....

In the 3boot, we've had a mix of gender interaction scenes - the innocence of Triplicate Girl on her first date(s) with boys, the fumbling Element Lad, their ensuing relationship, which just seems to involve hanging out together; Karate Kid's winsome idealization of Phantom Girl, her romance-comic break-up with what's-his-name back on Bgtzl. At the other end of the spectrum are Jeckie & Brin in bed together, with references to a well-established relationship; Ayla's pursuit of no-night-sleeping-alone, Tasmia's triangle with Val and Jo, and Imra & Garth's bedroom talk. A lot more variety than in the past, although the absence of any gay/lesbian couple seems odd.

Haven't had time to read the other posts on this issue. (haven't had time to post anything either)

I enjoyed it. Really like the new costumes. Liked the focus on Ultra Boy. He's my fave member and I think one of the Legion's most popular members. Superwho?

Shooter and fjm are pretty dynamic. Like to see Saturn Girl use a gun against the monsters.

Certainly there’s variety in the gender interactions in the 3boot as a whole – when I said that the 3boot’s suddenly partially stuck in the sixties, I meant that the 3boot’s relationships have a certain bend to them after Shooter starting to write it. I didn’t make that clear, sorry. (Waid-3boot and Shooter-3boot feel like two different series to me, anyway, with only the most basic facts of character and plot transported over).

Unfortunately I don’t really know much of 5YL Ultra Boy. I can only compare 3boot Jo with reboot Jo. The latter was sometimes portrayed as kind of a doofus, but at least he wasn’t a doofus so terribly full of himself. As for 3boot Jo, well – at least he’s consistent: kind of an unlikable ass during Waid, still an unlikable ass now (I’m not actually opposed to shaking up Waid’s characterisation. I like Shooter’s Action Imra much better than Waid’s relative cipher; only her unfortunate romantic inclinations sadden me.)

The thing that annoys me most about Shooter’s Jo, though, isn’t even that’s he’s written as a stupid, insensitive thug, but that the writing seems to always indulge him in or reward him for his brainless macho stick. Waid’s Jo, for example, was taken down a peg after all his bragging during the date with one of the Trips – the unbelievable allure he probably thought he had didn’t exactly “get him the girl”.

The way Shooter’s Jo seems to be presented, on the other hand, is all “Whee! Our hero! Kissing and killing left and right!” Only when I see this Jo flying directly at the reader in all his manful glory, I… well, let’s say I’m not reacting to him in the way that was probably intended.

Addendum to clarify: With that I really didn’t mean I would like to see these scenarios played out with the genders reversed – this wouldn’t make anything better at all. At least one character would always ends up looking pretty damn bad.

LOL. Don't let Jo read that or he'll try turning his charms on you (as in you don't really mean that, baby!).

Good point about Waid's version of Jo. He was also suffering some power control problems which were never definitely resolved, but which served, in one story at least, to take the edge off his ego.

I don't find too much different between Waid Jo and Shooter Jo. Yes, Waid Jo had that rough patch where Val helped him out. However, Waid Jo didn't seem like the kind of character who would let that event instill any sort of permanent humility.

Jo is, more than anyone else, the poster child of the Legion without a Superboy. In the original Legion, Jo was a kid from the wrong side of the tracks who got powers kind of like the lengendary Superboy, and then got to hang out with that Superboy, whose good example helped Jo discover his inner nobility and made him a responsible member and leader of the Legion.

In the 3boot, Jo is the BMOC and cock of the walk, and there's no Superboy there to teach him some humility. It would have been GREAT to have used SuperGIRL for that, but the Waid Supergirl/LSH was mostly a colossal waste of time. Anyway, Jo is the unchallenged big gun of the Legion, a kid totally intoxicated with his superpowers and the life of fun his position affords him. The good news is, the comeuppance he deserves still awaits him in the future, and I hope I get to see it.

Perhaps I am of the wrong preference to have noticed it, but Jo's attitude, referred to multiple times as 'manly' struck me as kinda immature, and deliberately portrayed as such.

Or is that the new definition of 'manly?'

But baby does really mean it.

Oh yes, that reminds me of the time when Karate Kid, Shady and Supergirl were mollycoddling him, so that he wouldn't feel outclassed by the latter. You're right, Waid didn't undermine Jo's attitude consistently, either.

Why should preference play any part in this? I find Jo's behaviour immature, too, as well as unlikable, but the - subjective - impression I got from the revamped 3boot's art and storytelling so far was the complete opposite of yours, namely that I was supposed to find his behaviour "cool" in that "women love him, men want to be him" way. Maybe that wasn't the intention at all - maybe his behaviour will actually be acknowledged as immature (as it was under Waid, for example), and maybe he'll get some kind of comeuppance. Then I'll totes take back what I said.

And when I was using "manly" I didn't mean to describe any realistic form of manliness with that word. As you can see I did put "manly" or "real man" and the like into quotes before, because that usually indicates that the usual statement connected with those words isn't the one I'm going for at that moment. With "manly" I meant to describe what I feel the writing's serving up for Jo right now - i.e. outdated bear-wrangler macho standards which some people waaaay back once took for the only proper way a man ought to behave.

Last night I re-read this issue before going to sleep. I'm also currently reading Alastair Reynold's "Revelation Space." It finally occurred to me, then, what the Legion "destroyers" are up to--they're destroying sentient life, technologically advanced life forms. The destroyer zapped the flower but didn't vaporize it because the flower isn't a sentient, technologically advanced creature (not yet, anyway). It also explains the destroyer's ability to track and attack Chameleon even though he looks like a non-sentient animal--they have a sentience sense.

I got the impression it failed to kill the flower for some other reason. It reminded me of the plants that could survive in the wasteland in the Final Fantasy movie.

Something else else about that plant resisted the life eradicators weapons, at first.

About the Destroyer and the Flower, remember Popoff said that one of 'his' team was also on Rimbor?

Maybe the flower is a powered-up Fruit Boy? Or Spy?

I always found Jo's portrayal to be flat and uninteresting in all of the boots, except for DOA's. He was very real and compelling in that story arc.
And when he and Imra kissed it not only made perfect sense but was pretty thrilling and sexy, too!
There really hasn't been much of true interest since, I think.
Oh well.

Oh, yeah. COuldn't figure out where that was going. I feel sad now.

Issue was fast-paced for me, a lot of story.


One of the best choreographed fight sequences I recall in a comic and I don't remember being this enthralled with the one-liners since DNA.

LOVE Shooter's and Manipul's take on Cham. Again, just makes sense. He's been nude all these years and no-one said a word. I love the future.

Very creative uses of Saturn Girl's powers.

Another direction that has me puzzling is the take on I-kid. Was he tearing up because his Dad shows some love or because of his Dad's comment about girls? I-kid is definitely enthralled with Giselle but at the same time he could have been tearing up because he's hiding feelings,... Shooter playing with fandom? I like it. We deserve a spanking on occasion. We'll probably find I-Kid is actually in love with Cham.

Much less future slang, anyone else notice?


.

I did not notice until you pointed it out, and gosh, is it not missed!

In reference to Invisible Kid and his dad's comments about girls - it strikes me that Lyle is a young Legionnaire (mid teens) and probably has not dated before, male or female. I think it was dad's observation that Lyle had grown up and he viewed him as more of a young adult now than a kid. It seemed a natural way of a father trying to learn something about his growing kid by throwing leading questions at him like that.

Sounds great to me. I hope that is the correct interpretation!

And yah, it's DNA.
Sorry, I'm only posting during my lunch half hour at school so details are difficult sometimes.

re: the life eradicator versus the flower-
didn't "it" scan it first with a sonar wave like ray before trying to zap it? maybe they are from a sentient plant race and are only programmed to destroy mammals?

Loved the title - "Fear and Clothing" - quality!

I haven't read the issue yet but with a title such as "Fear and Clothing" may it be possible that the creatures only attack based on fear. The flower didn't suffer because it showed no fear. Sentinent being fear and thus are viable targets.

read it last night-- liked it a LOT... Shooter's hit his stride with this ish, thinks I... and the art is my favorite since the Coipel days, overtaking Batista...

As I recall, the "clever and devoted Jo" story-line was so memorable mostly because he was portrayed and believed to be by both fandom and Legion characters (particularly Glorith) as petty,..., and thick in the head. A great bit of story that was and still could be the case.

Male-female dynamics and behavior, are they that much different today than two thousand years ago? Will they be that much different a thousand years from now?


IMO, changes in basic human thinking only occur after dramatic events and even then slowly with with a good bit of back and forth.

A good direction for the Lyle story might explore the affect of all these "aliens" on the male-female dynamic? To me it seems that most of what makes for that dynamic is natural instinct to focus on "difference." Would a earth male who is normally attracted to women be more attracted to the male of another planet than the female?

Hmmm.


Popov works so well because he looks so harmless. Quite the little weasel.

RE: blaming the colorist

I guess I'd have to see panels with as much detail that were intricately colored and still "clear" before making blame. As I see it, these a small panels to get in a lot of story and they are intricately drawn so that the words are not the entirely of the story.

I mean, I can't think of any situation in which a colored panel would look clearer than an intricately drawn black and white? But would it be as dynamic without the color? It seems smaller panels can have simple art and intricate color or intricate art and simple color but neither looks "real."

I guess MY summary is that I like all the story I get with the smaller panels and that I would not want the art simplified either.

As I recall, the "clever and devoted Jo" story-line was so memorable mostly because he had decades of back-story portraying hime as thick in the head, which was parleyed to fool both the readers and Glorith. A great bit of story that was and still could be the case.

Male-female dynamics and behavior, are they that much different today than two thousand years ago? Will they be that much different a thousand years from now?


IMO, changes in basic human thinking only occur after dramatic events and even then slowly with with a good bit of back and forth.

A good direction for the Lyle story might explore the affect of all these "aliens" on the male-female dynamic? To me it seems that most of what makes for that dynamic is natural instinct to focus on "difference." Would a earth male who is normally attracted to women be more attracted to the male of another planet than the female?

Hmmm.


Popov works so well because he looks so harmless. Quite the little weasel.

As I believe Shooter intended, I was bothered by Imra's co-opting of Jo's visual receptors. Granted, it was a battle situation — but it's a further extension of SG's character via Shooter wherein she doesn't see anything wrong with tinkering around in someone's mind without permission.

And yet it's also telling that Jo doesn't have the slightest concern about it.

In a universe where a race of telepaths have lost the power of speech, is it even reasonable to demand that they not use their telepathy? After all, she's 'invading' someone's mind *every single time she speaks.* What if she was deaf as well? Would it be assault or spying or whatever for her to 'listen' telepathically as well as 'speak' telepathically?

For a telepath to be considered 'assaulting' someone to communicate or perceive the world via telepathy, would be the same as saying that I'm assaulting people by talking to them, or looking at them.

She's certainly crossed the line into coercion before, but I don't think what she did with Jo there is anymore unethical than my telling someone to look in a specific direction by pointing with my finger. If every single use of her powers starts crossing lines into unethical or immoral or whatever, they might as well just write telepaths out of the DCU completely.

Well, IMHO there's certainly a difference between a telepath broadcasting their thoughts and actively controlling someone else's mind. Shooter has decidedly amped Imra's powers in this regard and has also laid the groundwork for the controversy (which he probably won't get to explore if his future on the title is indeed limited). It nicely enhances the distrust of telepaths in the 31st century, and I wouldn't be surprised that the technology of the time has come up with Telepath Dampners.

I was reacting most to SG's cavalier appropriation of UB's sensory information. It seems that Shooter is giving us an Imra who doesn't feel there's anything wrong with what she does. It reminds me of the Legion Lost arc where she manipulated her fellow Legionnaires.

A detail I don't think anyone else has mentioned yet:

Carmine's Custom Actionwear :: C C A :: Comics Code Authority

Coincidence? Or some kind of inside joke?

That's curious, BRM. Missed it entirely. It might suggest that the new uniforms are not entirely friendly. On the other hand, shouldn't we always trust a guy named Carmine in a comic book?

As long as it's a DC comic
Did Shooter ever work with Carmine Infantino?
Did Infantino ever design any Legionnaire costumes, or LSH-related characters?

As for "not entirely friendly" uniforms: I suspect the new uniforms may be "bugged" (Except for Brainiac 5's: he'd notice, in his own clothes; but he may not get around to closely inspecting anybody else's new outfits for a while). I'm assuming that M'Rissey is responsible for the new uniforms, and my guess is he's arranged to have the Legionnaires starring in a "reality TV show" (or 31st century equivalent) which will premiere in their near future. The uniforms are either "bugged" to serve as a source of footage when the Legionnaires are outside of LSH HQ, or they are Product Placement for one of the show's sponsors.

Shooter was definitely working for DC when Carmine Infantino was Editor in Chief but maybe they never worked together directly. maybe on Action? also, i think maybe "we" are more nostalgia oriented than Shooter, and he was just making a joke while dropping clues for the legionnaires of M'rssey's infiltration.

1. At least three relatively novel uses of Jo's power (second party ultravision, human bullet, rotating powers vs. a compensating foe)

2. Great fight scene

3. Chicks with guns

4. Brainy/LL banter

5. Jo being "TOO SEXY"

6. Action (see #2) PLUS plot development

7. Little offhanded flicks of characterization--one liners, looks, etc.--that bring things along without seeming contrived

8. Clean AND detailed art that differentiates character and provides a context for the future

ALL add up to a great issue!