All four are still annoyingly missing from the current Legion line-up!

At least Tenz and Chuck are in the 'toon!

Can't wait for the 'toon comic to come out!

Give us Ferro Lad or Give us death! (Or give him death at least!)

Chemical King I could live without, unless they actually utilize his potential this time around.

Where do I sign up to get the other 3 into this book?

Was that billboard way early on supposed to be Chuck and Tenz?

If so, it wasn't enough.

Right here! My new ambition is to keep this thread on the front page until all four characters show up in the book!

Or until I get distracted or bored or something!

It's a valid crusade. These are the 4 remaining ADVENTURE-era Legionnaires still not on the team.

(I hope they don't show up as members of the LSV!!)

Hmm... the first three listed could have been participants in the current Pinup Models competition. Of course, Tenz has the coveted host job, so he kinda does each challenge, too.

Didn't somebody have a theory one time about the preponderance of Black-haired characters in the DC comics universe being due to Tenzil's miracle machine-induce wish fulfillment?

Silver Agers! Bah! They get ALL the attention!

What about Jacques, Mysa, Kent and Blok?

Hmm... I suppose I could've included groovy Silver Agers such as the White Witch, Quantum Queen, and Insect Queen in this...

Exactly. Or, for that matter, what about Kono, Quislet, Kid Quantum, Gates, Shikari and Gear?

Or what about someone, gasp, new?

Yeah, because Tenzil, Chuck, and Condo have been so massively over-used!

I'm not opposed to having non-classic characters show up, but not at the expense of these already under-utilized classic Legionnaires!

I vote for Matter Eater Lad and Bouncing Boy in the toon comic.

The rest in the regular comic.

You're equating the terms 'classic' and 'Silver Age'. What makes Chemical King more 'classic' than Kid Quantum? He may be an older character than she is, but I don't think he's a better character.

My idea is that all eras of the Legion count equally. And therefore the Silver Age is quite overrepresented. I don't object to any of the four characters in the thread title showing up, but if I was looking to add characters to the cast of the book I would definitely not be looking at them first.

The difference is that when waid started this run there was all that talk about his love of the silver age legion stories/characters. The fact that these four haven't shown up IS significant in light of this.

I'd love to have a not-blown-to-smithereens Blok show up in this continuum, but it probably won't happen until the early 2010's when some new writer we've never heard of reboots the book again proclaiming his hard-on for the Levitz-Giffen era books of the 1980's.

That's my point. If you're going to have a Legion that's rooted in the Silver Age, and yet you blatantly leave out a number of Silver Age characters, their absence is conspicuous.

Now, if Waid had decided to start the series with a mixed cast from all eras, fine. That might even be cool. Personally I could've done without Ultra Boy, for example, as he's been way over-exposed in the past few versions of the team and not much good has been done with him since early v4.

I think it's kind of goofy to have almost all the Silver Age characters, but to add in, say, Kono, and then ten years down the road to introduce Ferro Lad significantly inexperienced compared to the rest of the team and being trained by Kono.

You left out Superboy. Not that I necessarily want him back...

Significant of what?

They can't use everybody. They can't make things too similar to previous Legion versions; that's the trap that the reboot fell into. It's possible to admire the Silver Age stuff without wanting to reconstruct it entirely.

I would not have had a problem with it.

I'm with Matthew E.

The roster is all Silver Age. Waid's Legion is rooted in the Silver Age. It's the reason many don't like it including me.

Bring Blok back with the code name Stone Boy. But make sure it's Blok...not Dag.

With the death of Cockrum I am hoping Waid slows down on the Silver Age...and give us a member who isn't a boy or lad. WILDFIRE!!!!!!!!

While I feel that Wildfire is the one member that *needs* to be back to make this feel like the Legion, I wish Tenzil and Chuck would get their due, because they never did in the Reboot.

As for new characters--cripes, good luck! There's about a 1:5 ratio of good new characters to crappy ones that everyone hates with the Legion, and I feel the main reason is because most Legion fans want old favorites back and are unhappy until they get them. I, for one, will require the creators to WOW me with a new character and be much harsher in my critique than in bringing back an old character, because I want characters I'm already invested in back. However, new concepts, love interests, stories, villains, locations and supporting characters are beyond neccessary at this point.

There are many Legionnaires from all eras that deserve to be back (and Gates of the Reboot is at the forefront as an example of a most recent), but its become almost like a travesty that Matter-Eater Lad, Bouncing Boy and Ferro Lad continue to get the shaft. I feel it must be addressed, before all of Legion Fandom--and thus, all the world--be torn asunder!

But look at what you're saying:
You're saying that, of every six new Legionnaires introduced, one is good and five are bad.

Your explanation is that Legion fans don't like new characters as much as they like old characters.

Well, if that explanation is true, maybe the quality of the characters isn't the problem.

(When it comes to Matter-Eater Lad, Bouncing Boy and Ferro Lad, I think that the reboot treated all of them very well. Ferro got to live, for one thing. Tenzil was only in a supporting role, but not a bad one. And I liked reboot-Chuck very much; I thought he was a great character.)

(Great, I reply, the page doesn't refresh, and my post is lost :rolleyes: )

I'm not saying that the above is a good thing, but I do think its a pattern we've grown to see over the years. New members are introduced and lots of people dislike lots of them. And I think that's mainly because most Legion fans want old favorites to be back on the team, and they dislike the notion of the team being filled up by new members, *especially* if they replicate missing members powers or personalities.

I agree with you that the reboot was respectful, and agree completely on Ferro, but I do wish Chuck and Tenzil had a chance to at least be in costume as members of the team, albeit briefly. A four part story paying them respect as actual members of the Legion with homage to their histories would have been preferable. Not having that at all feels like a bit of a slap in the face to the Silver Age Legion's past no matter how nice it is. But I like Jorg's idea of at least having them star in the cartoon.

I'm more along the same lines as most in that the characters I most want come from different eras than the Silver Age (Wildfire, Dawnstar, Kent Shakespeare, Gates). I'd like to see them 'close out' the Silver Age cast with the remaning 4 and move forward myself.

Above all though, I completely believe that in order for the Legion to be successful and to recapture the magic, it must break new ground storywise and move forward, progressing from past Legion stories. I'd just like to see it done with characters historically associated with the team that many fans have an invested interest in.

And if anyone asks, yes, I was one of those posters back 2000 that crusaded and crusaded for Andy Lanning and Dan Abbnet to kill Monstress, and they pleased us all

Well, along those lines... one of my favourite moments was in the Braal issue of Legion Worlds:

"Welcome aboard the Bouncing Boy."

You've been using words like 'travesty' and 'slap in the face'. And I can understand how it feels like that, but I'm sure that it's not perceived as such on the creators' end. It's probably just an artistic choice.

Oh, and: poor Monstress.

I think the main thing for me is that when you have a cast that's clearly modelled on the Adventure Era team, and you leave out several members, with (at least apparently) no good reason, then of course fans of those characters are going to be upset by their lack of inclusion.

I would say the same thing if Waid had filled the book only with characters introduced after Zero Hour but had left out, say, Kinetix and Gear.

I see no good reason why they couldn't have started the book with twenty-four characters rather than twenty. The absence of these characters is conspicuous.

That said, I certainly think Wildfire, for example, is probably a far more identifiable/key character to the Legion mythos than, for example, Chemical King. The is probably true of Dawnstar or XS, for that matter. I'd also suggest that Matter-Eater Lad, being one of the most recognizable Legionnaires, is more important than a number of the current members of the team, however.

Most of the complaints I see about the team aren't about the roster (which is clearly rooted in the Silver Age), but the characterization or storytelling styles, which are far closer to later incarnations of the team than to the Silver Age.

The problem with MEL and BB is they don't translate as well.

Waid is trying to make the silver age cool again trying to make it "retro cool".

Look at the Mustang car they brought back the "classic" design. How many other car companies have done that?

MEL and BB are not mustangs. They would be whatever obscure low selling ugly car was around back then. In other words they do not have mass appeal...and I can think of a dozen characters that are better.

Matter Eater Lad has one of the worst names I've ever seen...and powers. If they retooled him called him Devourer...gave him energy absorption powers...fine.

Bouncing Boy belongs in a cartoon.

Ferro Lad I think can work personally. But again he's not this popular character. (like WILDFIRE)

Waid is going back to basics...which I hate. But I am glad he isn't bringing things that don't translate well these days. (or do I thank Kitson for that?)

And somehow, even in a thread listing 4 Legionnaires, Condo gets pushed to the curb and barely mentioned! Bah! I say, bah! to all non-Condo proponents!

Condo could be a powerhouse, if the writer understood how truly remarkable his ability to affect chemical reactions can be. All the others have at least been a part of the team in the recent past. Condo was relegated to the role of a journalist that made 2-3 appearances at most since his death.

He deserves a chance to shine.


* See my sig line

Yeah, I can see how Matter-Eater Lad is totally lacking in any appeal. Why would anybody possibly want to read about a guy who hides his disfunctional family from his friends because he's embarrassed by them? Or a guy who takes out the beautiful girl and stands up to her jerk boyfriend at the end of the night only to have her go back to the jerk in the end? I can't imagine anyone possibly relating to that guy.

And what dumb powers. You know, when I think of wussy animals, I think of things like lions, crocodiles, and sharks. Because, after all, what are they going to do, bite you? What a goofy combat strategy that is! Oh, maybe he's a little less wussy than a lion or shark, because he can actually eat anything, plus the whole super-speed aspect, but still...

And I can definitely see why bringing Blok back would be a much better idea. After all, nothing says "kewl" like a big, dumb, lumbering, rock who talks to other rocks! The mass appeal of that character is just so obvious! Oh, and notice how his name is just like "block", only without a "c"? That's just so hip!

EDE, I don't trust you know what hip is. But it's ok cause Waid doesn't either.

This book is finally getting better throwing guys like BB and MEL in there will not help.

Quislet is more entertaining personally on the joke side...and much cooler powers. They can get any member to play the shy teenage geek for guys like you to relate with.

And I would gladly sacrficie my 80's lessr known characters as long as BB and MEL do not show up.

Also if MEL had large canines and would rip the throat out of opponents...I may like him.

New Mutants had a character called Doug Ramsey. He had a useless power...but it wasn't inflating like a beach ball. it worked.

In this series so far Waid has given us a ton of Bouncing Boy's. How many of the extended Legion fans have we seen with useless powers but use courage to make a difference.

I can accept Chuck Taine or Tenzil Kim...as characters but with a tweak to the silly powers. For instance I enjoyed Chuck as the mechanic in the last version of the Legion.

But I guess tweaking their powers to translate better to this generation is a sin or something.

I don't care about power tweaks, I just hope when (not if, if the cartoon gets popular) Chuck and Tenzil come back, they aren't purple or polka-dotted or sentient mildew.

I don't want to go on at length about this, because I've got a Legion Abstract post planned on this and related subjects, but...

I actually do want Bouncing Boy and Chemical King and Matter-Eater Lad and Ferro Lad back in the Legion.

Because I want everybody.

Somehow.

Oh, I agree in essence about wanting everyone back. It seems to me it would've made a lot of sense with Waid starting the story in media res to have somehow acknowledged that all these other characters already exist, even if the series is not going to be focusing on them. Then the series could move on, and not have to spend the next decade waiting for everyone to be re-introduced.

THAT would have been ideal. I want everyone back too, even my personal non-faves like Tellus, because every fan should be able to see their favorites even if they appear infrequently (as would likely have to happen if everyone DID come back).

Legionnaires don't kill.

Please enlighten him, and me, and all other fans of these characters who must be in severe need of re-hip-ucation.

Most of the "hippest," now, whatever characters are from the Golden and Silver Ages originally. Most of their powers have not been changed to appease one fan, nor should they have been.

Luckily, the cartoon producers are intelligent enough to see the value of Bouncing Boy and Matter-Eater Lad (at least) without a need to "translate their powers to this generation."

Actually Matthew and everyone, I'm with you. I want everyone back to. That would be ideal.

(Except Monstress, her I want dead )

Yep, bring 'em all back. (Even Monstress - they can kill her off again.) But bring them back as the good guys - that LSV is getting entirely too crowded!

Chemical King was the least utilized of these four - no revivals after his death. So he is certainly due some panel time, IMO. However, I would really like to see what Mark Waid could do with MEL and BB - and what costumes/looks Barry would give them.

Well it is geared toward children. It is intelligent if it's for that age group. And a comic geared toward children would be great as well.

Sadly there intelligence didn't cover Brainiac 5 who is now a transformer.

But if they were sentient mildew, you know who else would be showing up, Lash?

Matthew E is the sage of this thread. Silver does NOT equal Classic. I do not begrudge others supporting the characters they want to see, but let's bring in the more worthwhile later characters too.

If Matthew is the "sage" then I'm the old "thyme"er

I have no objection to seeing some (or all) of the Legionnaires from more recent version brought into the fold. I think it would be fun for example to see Dawnstar and Shikari interacting as teammates ans Gates would be a great counterpoint to this megalomaniacal version of Brainy XS would do a great deal towards perking things ups and I think she and Quislet together would be lots of fun.

That being said, there would be no Monstress, no Gates, no KQ, no Kinetix, and certainly none of Jorge's "hip" Legionnaires were it not for the CLASSIC Legionnaires that came before them. Condo, Chuck, Tenzil and Andrew all brought a great deal to the table and helped shape the Legion, setting the stage that many others later traversed.

They helped create and maintain the fan base that fought and fought and fought to keep the Legion alive, through all its trials and tribulations in the early years when the editors thought that a kid that bounced or ate rocks was stupid. There would not be a Legion of Super Heores today preparing to celebrate a 50th anniversary were it not for the kids with the stupid powers and their die hard fans. Give them their due.

Hear, hear.

That's the kind of argument that applies to real people who can appreciate such an honour.

Since we're talking about fictional characters, I'm not going to be swayed by it too much. In fact, hold on:

They. They?! The fictional characters did that? The made-up superheroes took effective action, themselves, to create and maintain a fan base? Pull yourself together.

Let's say it like this:

Many people on this board, including you, are unhappy that some of your favourite characters, who are among DC's most venerable characters, aren't currently appearing in any of DC's comics, even the title that is their traditional and logical home.

That's a valid and reasonable complaint.

But let's not overstate the case. The Silver Age Legion, as a group, has received its due respect and then some. Which is something I can't say about all other eras of the Legion.

Well, the ability to detect sarcasm would be a good place to start.

Which, of course, means that you're going to have to look somewhere else for your answers on hip, Lasher.

As to the subject at hand: the contention that somehow characters named "Bouncing Boy" and "Matter-Eater Lad" are somehow not appropriate for a book which features characters named "Princess Projectra" and "Triplicate Girl" may be somewhat shaky.

Real life story: when Lee found out that there was a character named "Triplicate Girl," he shook his head, saying, "What is she, some kind of super-fast secretary? Can she file forms in triplicate faster than a speeding bullet? Jump in-boxes in a single bound? Is she stronger than a stapler?" After thinking about it, I had to agree that, yes, she was kind of a super-secretary (of course this was the reboot 'Triad' persona I was talking about...)

What's this tangent about?

Oh yes. The whole concept is a little bit silly, y'all. That's kind of what keeps it running.

I agree there is some silliness built into the foundations; even the comparatively-serious (to Silver Age, at least) Levitz era had mid-to-late-20-somethings called "boy" and "girl," and people carrying white dwarf stars around inside Earth's atmosphere.

But there is a threshold - just as in the 70s Lar and Clark could literally fly to and from another galaxy in the same day, contemporary standards and knowledge raise the threshold (no pun intended) for suspension of disbelief to higher levels. Super-bouncing and eating any substance may be cool to kids who grew up in the 60s, and fans who appreciate retro or silliness, but these do not seem to be positive attributes for most readers of contemporary super-hero comic books. I would assume most of us would like a good, current LSH book that sells well enough to remain voable, rather than just reminisce about This era or That era, and I do not see these character as appealing to regular, committed comics people who aren't already buying it. As we have seen, there are literally dozens of characters that have served as Legionnaires over the past 48 (!) years; not all of them have to be kept current and updated.

If Chuck and Tenzil fit into the cartoon (I haven't seen it yet), that is great. I would suggest that the lighter, more youthful orientation of the cartoon is the most (and perhaps only) appropriate venue for those characters.

No? I suppose heroes that kill adversaries and fight each other portray much more positive attributes to readers today?

Seems to me that this version IS selling well enough to be viable while reminiscing about the Silver Age. It certainly has shown itself to be at least as viable as any version since the original, at least from the sales figures I've seen posted and discussed around here.

Okay, fair enough. You can have Saturn Girl, Brainy, and Projectra back.


I would suggest that you may be wrong. That cartoon is already bringing in new fans as we've seen around here on Legion World and will likely see in sales of the book.

The ability to point-blank destroy any material object in the universe sounds pretty impressive to me. Hell, Wolverine's practically based around a lesser version of the same ability. Destroying the Miracle Machine, wrecking the Atomic Axe, mutilating Pulsar Stargrave...Tenzil'd be a plot device unto himself if he wasn't underused.
Certainly his power ranks well above being, say, an ordinary girl who turns into three ordinary girls.

As for his name--if he wasn't named something funny, it would show that he didn't know his power was funny, which would be really not cool.

I doubt I represent the target audience of the book--possibly of any book, but I was a teenage fan who got into the Legion right around Zero Hour. I had no knowledge of, and therefore no nostalgia for, any earlier versions. Nonetheless, as I dug out back issues the Matter-Eater Lads from the 5YL era--both of them--became by far my favorite characters. Precisely because they had a silly-sounding power, and they knew they did, and they didn't worry about trying to impress anybody with it. In fact, they apparently understood the basic silliness of the Legion concept: a dozen or so teenagers with assorted bizarre abilities form a club to save the galaxy? The M-E Lads provided a metacommentary on the whole idea and the general superhero experience that I thought was very cool. They were like the LSH version of Deadpool.

And then, looking back at the Adventure era, even a more seriously-portrayed M-E Lad has the virtue of being pretty much the archetypal Legionnaire. He has a power--a unique power, unlike the "Kryptonian-minus" powersets of T-Wolf and Ferro and Blok and Kent Shakespeare--which is utterly useless about 95% of the time and utterly critical the other 5%. Who better to have on the comicverse's most diversity-championing superteam?

I've never seen a character who can eat anything be rejected by the readers--mostly because other than Tenzil I've never seen such a character period--but Speedball seemed to be quite popular on the bouncing front.

If the cartoon is popular, perhaps a lighter and more youthful orientation could be appropriate to the comic as well. Particularly in a comic which is currently focusing on the issue of youth.

Nonetheless, I'm not all that anxious to bring in M-E Lad while Waid's writing. He does humor very well, but it's sitcom-style humor, not the absurdist style you need for Tenzil's personality.

Bouncing Boy I think he'd do just fine with, though. It's not like he had problems writing the Flash, who was good friends with a fat man who could inhale and puke out unlimited quantities of material....

Unfortunately, by the time there were postboot writers who really wanted to play with that, they handed it off to Kid Quantum...

Sadly, you are very correct.

A few things.

It was with sarcasm that I used the word hip. But I am sure el Valenciano Emerald Empress can explain what hip is if need be. Go ahead do it in spanish if need be...atleast I know Vee would understand.

I was also kidding about how Tenz should rip out throats with his teeth. This was because he was compared to a lion, etc.

Again I have no problem with Tenzil as a character. His codename and powers...yes. You might as well put a guy that has fart powers. I loved Tenz in v4. But the atmosphere of that book made it work. Just like Grant Morrisson's All Star Superman can make BB and MEL work. This book I don't think so. If Tenz had a tweak in powers I would love to see him. And heck the name Matter Eater Lad wouldn't be so bad if they actually made fun of it. btw, the names Princess Projectra and Triplicate Girl I also despise.

For the record I love Chuck as well...the character. I liked him as the Legion sidekick in the last boot. Sure make him chunky/fat whatever. But the part of having him inflate to a beach ball? Geez. Silicone Dream, Speedball doesn't inflate to a giant beach ball.

Yes I guess all comics are silly. But there are degrees and personally I don't like the more silly things. More importantly I think these characters put off more people than they may attract. Sure if the book is geared towards children I don't have a problem. Personally I hope both characters are part of the animated book.

Also I apologize for all of those I made angry. You ofcourse have a right to call for any character you want. I just love the Legion and think some of these more obscure/silly characters are more of a put off to other readers. I grew up with a Legion that was the #1 or #2 book at DC at the time...and I liked it. And I usually like the higher selling books cause it seems it has the most mass appeal to readers. Imagine that. I don't want the Legion to be a sub-culture of a sub-culture of a sub-culture. I want them in the forefront.

No offense, Vee, but that comes across as lame as the argument that allowing gay marriages opens the door to marriages with animals. There are plenty of non-lethal heroes that fit modern tastes - the entire current LSH comic lineup for instance. My point was that not all characters hold up over time to changing tastes, and I can't see BB or MEL helping sales with anyone but already-existing Silver Age LSH fans - and they are already either buying the book, or have tuned out modern LSH (and maybe comics in general) as "not 'my' legion" - are they really the core marketing group to try to lure back?

Yes. Would BB or MEL really help sales? or possibly even hurt sales? The era when LSH sold the best - mid 70s to late 80s - featured MEL very little, and BB mostly as a former/reserve member.

true enough. but if the regular book becomes more like the comic, why have two books? Why should those of us who favor other overlooked characters be subject to BB and MEL in both books, rather than having some variety?

Between the Silver-ish aspects of the current series and the cartoon, Silver fans have plenty of things they can call their own.

But fans of various eras of characters from the mid-70s to mid-00s have nada.

I'm not very familiar with Speedball - I recognize the name, never read a story with him. He had his own series for a while and later was part of the New Warriors? Is that him? How long did either last? Is he a beloved, missed, or reoccuring character today? I ask because I don't know.

I respect your opinion, but I offer mine only as a contrast, not to belittle: to me, KQ was a far better character, and I am glad we had her instead of a revised CK. To me, CK was the equivalent of a generic original ST red-shirt. I never felt we were given enough to really care about the character. Any CK/KQ debate, to me, is like saying one of those misc. red-shirts should have been revived for ST:TNG instead of developing Geordie or Dr. Crusher.

I respect your opinion, but I offer mine only as a contrast, not to belittle: to me, KQ was a far better character, and I am glad we had her instead of a revised CK. To me, CK was the equivalent of a generic original ST red-shirt. I never felt we were given enough to really care about the character. Any CK/KQ debate, to me, is like saying one of those misc. red-shirts should have been revived for ST:TNG instead of developing Geordie or Dr. Crusher.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Fair enough. I can't argue that Condo got very little attention since that is one of my big complaints. On the other hand, KQ got way too much attention and she suffered for it. Surely you agree that she is one of the least liked Legionnaires from the previous run. Which is not to say that she has no fans, just that she doesn't rank way up there.

In my book, she got plenty of development time so she really should be at the back of the line when it comes to reintroducing characters in this boot. I want to see characters that haven't had their turn in a while brought back first, then bring back the others.

BTW, I neither agree with your characterization of Condo as a red shirt nor with the favorable one of KQ with Geordie or Dr. Crusher. Both of them were very likable. I think I would see Jasmine more like one of the Ferengie (sp?) ... around lots but very annoying.

I like KQII too (moreso before she got overexposed in the latter part of DnA's run) but surely the only reasons she is a "far better character" than Condo are that -

a) she was around in a time when Legionnaire's individual characterisation was of much greater import to readers and writers than when Condo was

and

b) she benefitted from having MUCH more time devoted to her characterisation by virtue of the fact that she was on the team for longer and was a featured member in MANY stories (unlike Condo who only got one short story about him and that was after he was dead).

If Condo had been given the same chance at appealing to a new generation of Legion readers that say, Invisible Kid had who knows how many fans he'd have now.

So saying KQII's a better character just because she filled Condo's spot on the team and got all the attention and characterisation he couldv'e been getting is a little specious IMO.

Vee-

I never saw KQ2 as unlikeable or overexposed. I know you and some of the other staunch Silverists didn't care for her, but I can't really say she is or isn't one of the least liked. But I base my preferences on characters on how I respond to the stories, not what other fans think.

Until this thread, I never heard of an argument that her presence somehow prevented CK from appearing. I can vaguely see that, but it doesn't quite wash. Her powers were fairly loosely defined, and thus more flexible for story-tellers, while CK's were probably too tightly defined, tying writers' hands via ignorance rather than opening up possibilities via imagination. Yes, more imaginative or educated writers could have used CK more and better (that's true of any Bates-era LSHer!), but I can also see CK and KQ working together, complimentary, a la Thom and Ayla, Vi and Gim, etc.

I can see the reasoning of KQ pushed to the back of the line for redevelopment; but by extending that logic, many of the "classic" Legionnaires should also be benched: Rokk, Querl, Imra, Lyle, Lu... while all the characters who haven't appeared in years should have center stage: Jacques, Dawny, Condo, Kent, Kono, Mysa, Blok, Troy, Quis, Brek, Pol, Tellus, Laurel, Danielle, Catspaw, Dragonmage and anyone I've overlooked.

Blacula- I generally agree with all your points.

OMG! I would actually *LOVE* it if that happened! I can't tell you how bored I am with Rokk, Imra, Garth, Querl, Jo, Tinya, etc.

Bring on a Legion with all those later characters you mentioned (plus Chuck and Tenzil ) and I would be all over it!

Just throwing my 2 cents into the Bouncing Boy / Matter-Eater Lad debate for a second...

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but a lot of the nay-sayers seem to be saying/implying that these 2 characters wouldn't work in a contemporary Legion series because they're too unhip, silly, stuck in the 60s or whatever. And that today's readership wouldn't be able to take them seriously and that they would therefore bring the Legion down.

But really - what evidence/precedent have the nay-sayers got that they're basing this theory on? A whole bunch of hokey 60s Legion elements surivived and prospered in the reboot and still do in today's Legion. Spider-Girl, Triplicate Girl, the Subs, Space-Whales, Super-Pets... they don't get more hokey than them and yet each one of them has made an appearance in the comics in recent years. And the polymer shield in the sky hasn't fallen yet.

As for Bouncing Boy and Matter-Eater Lad themselves being too hokey. Well it could be a valid point. And it could not. Who knows? The point is no one knows, because there are no 2 similar characters in today's comics that we can draw parallels with. (Speedball's powers are only slightly similar to Chuck's and his visual is completely different.) So if anything, I think their uniqueness would only be a positive thing for them.

Thirdly, Chuck and Tenzil's hokeyness/unhipness is only as hokey and unhip as their writer wants it to be. Most writers could easily take either of these 2 characters and put any spin on them they wanted to. They could be light-hearted and fun, grim and gritty, or straight and narrow... or anything and everything in between. The power doesn't make the character - the characterisation does. And a good writer should be able to make you like *anyone*.

And finally, let's say Chuck and Tenzil do come back and they are just as light-hearted and funny-looking as they've almost always been. Would it really be that bad for the Legion? It certainly didn't hurt Grant Morrison's JLA. Plastic Man's portrayal in that series was 10 times more whacky and silly and light-hearted and "unhip" than Chuck and Tenzil's could ever hope to be, and yet that stayed a Top 10 book for the duration of Morrison's run and Plastic Man remained one of the team's more popular members the whole time!

So I guess the moral of my story is - if you don't like a character, fine. Say it. That's an extremely valid reason to not want a character on a team. (I don't want Brainiac 5 or Saturn Girl on the team but I don't think TPTB will ever give me that break!)

But not wanting a character in a book because of how tens of thousands of strangers *might* react to said characters based on little to no actual precedental information is a little wrong-headed I think. And maybe a little insulting too? People like to think for themselves and they'd probably prefer the opportunity to form their own opinions on Chuck and Tenzil - not have their hipness dictated to them by some other reader who's already made up his mind based on stories he's never read. (Yes - that was a shout-out to you Jorge. Unless you've read the Adventure-era by now.)

Except for not wanting Brainiac 5 and Saturn Girl, I agree with everything Blacula says.

I believe Wesley Crusher is the analogy you were looking for.

Anyway, I'd just like to remind everyone that few DC characters have made as well-received comeback in the past year or so as Detective Chimp. And this was a character who sat unused for years because he was "too Silver Age" and "not a serious character".

Not to mention Egg Fu of all characters being featured as a major villain in DC's current top selling series. And that's a character even *I* would never of considered reviving.

Thanks to Morrison, probably. Morrison'll revive anybody.

So will Geoff Johns, but he'll surgically remove every last speck of humor from them first.

That's perfect!

Let me clear this up a bit. I don't DISLIKE KQ, I just don't like her all that much. Never really saw the appeal she had nor why she got so much panel time when there were so many other very likable characters available during the prior run. I do not begrudge her a place in the Legion, just like I don't begrudge Ultra Boy, Phantom Girl, Dawnstar, Saturn Girl or Brainy theirs. I've never been a big fan of any of them but that doesn't mean they don't belong.

I agree that their powers were not the same, yet I have heard that reasoning many times. I don't know if the creators ever expressed that themselves or it was just some fans, but I've seen it said more than once that KQ was the rebooted Condo and that's not I trade I can be happy with. Just like you, I think CK & KQ would make an interesting team up.

You'll get very little arguement from me there! (Well, maybe about Dawny....another character whose appeal I never got. Now if she were a hot, barechested he maybe I could warm up to him! )

I would love to see most of those others you mentioned back. But you seem to forget that we old timers have seen some of the originals benched before. Imra, Garth, & Rokk retired and made way for the likes of Quis, Tellus, Brek, Pol etc. So I sure don't have a problem with that type of scenario, if it's handled ina way that makes sense (as it was back then)

In this version however, it wouldn't be necessary. We don't have to lose a member in order to get any of the others. Bring 'em on!

Let me just say that if I *really* had my way, we'd be reading a version of the Legion in which most of the original members had long since retired and been succeeded by younger members, except for a couple of "senior advisors". What I don't like is mucking with continuity so that suddenly such-and-such Adventure Era member was *never* a member of the team or joins significantly later than other early members.

I actually feel the same way about, for example, Wonder Woman being retconned out of the early Justice League (and Justice Society for that matter).

I didn't forget; I just wasn't about to start delving into a lot of LSH history, as every era had its bench-warmers. But no era has sent the entire Silver vets to the bench - not Levitz, nor TMK.

I have nothing agianst CK; I just never saw any particular reason to be drawn to him, thus I don't really care whether he comes back.

It seems that those who either don't like KQ, or, like you, feel she got too much attention, seem to hold her as secondary to a slate of generally Silver Age characters (although to your credit you partially deflate your own role in that theory by listing your general preferences). Except for her tenure as leader, I don't see significant "panel-hogging" and how can a leader not be among the main cast? In L-Lost, she was 1 of 12, and got an average level of time among the main 10 (Jan didn't appear enough to be averaged in) - less than 'Kari, Garyh, Imra and Jo, but more than Candi or Cham. Prior to LL, she was not a particularly focused-on character.

I would not object to CK returning, if a writer would actually make him a developed character with a useful role in the LSH. I never saw that effort make in CK's own time.

I will also agree that writers like Grant Morrison, Alan Moore or Neil Gaiman could make BB and MEL work, but how many writers approach their calibur? I guess I'd clarify my position that because of their particular retro-ness, they should be done right, or not at all, and since most writers are not up to the challenge, I suggest not at all is the proper course to take at present.

I agree entirely.

I have less problem with alternate timelines that are clearly, entirely different (Reboot and Threeboot), but the original Bierbaum plan for the Legionnaires series, retconning the Silver Age, I would have objected to, just as I disliked removing Supes and Bats from JLA and JSA history 20 years ago.

I guess I just don't see that BB and MEL are any different in this respect than the Legion as a whole are. Most of what makes the Legion special as a concept in my eyes are rooted in "retro" Silver Age stuff. It's the code names, the tryouts, the Substitutes, the bizarre Sci-Fi elements, the saluting the flag and reciting the Oath, the reader involvement, etc. Stripped of all that it becomes just another generic super-hero title and, from my point of view, incredibly boring.

I think that those who became fans in the Silver Age probably share a similar view. But those of us who came to LSH afterwards have different perspectives.

I'm sensing a "Silver-Age fans are set in their ways" theme trying to form here.

I became a fan during the Disco era, but much of that disco era involved reprints of some WAY classic Silver-Age stuff. So I was blessed to be introduced to tons of characters in a short span (and, some could say, multiple VERSIONS of said characters. I think readers who became fans during the 70s revival in popularity are the luckiest, myself). Because of this, I've never minded and always wanted the LSH to have the biggest most diverse cast ever and never begrudged any later members.

That said: Kid Q2 dropped in appeal for me when her powers evolved from creating stasis fields to becoming a human miracle machine.

I would, however, love to see Gates back, very nearly as much as I'd love to see the 4 remaining ADV-era guys get their turn.

Although my first Legion comic was SLSH #213, I started collecting and reading the Legion regularly around LSH ANNUAL #1 (the first one).

So, I came to appreciate and enjoy Legion history first through Digests, then back issues, and later Archives. I now have every major and most of the minor appearances of the group. Yet, despite coming in late, I not only appreciate the Silver Age Legion...I love it.

Quite frankly, I'm puzzled by all of this hatred for any Legion-era, but especially the one that started it all. I'm sure we all have favorites we miss in this current incarnation and I hope we all get a chance to see them all again soon.

Even Sensor? (tee hee! just kidding!)

Well, my first exposure to the Legion was in that classic issue, World's Finest #284, featuring the debut of the Composite Superman II! I think the first actual Legion issue I bought was that Tales issue that featured Magpie breaking into Legion HQ. I think I regularly started buying the title during Crisis, and even then I think I only bought through the issue where Star Boy quit. Until about four years ago or so when I started buying Archives my exposure to the Adventure Era was basically the first half of the Super-Stalag Story, the second half of the Computo story, and the Trial of Starboy, all of which I'd gotten at a flea market as a kid.

I became a Legion fan in the Reboot, and that era (well most of it anyway) will always have a special place in my comic-reading heart... BUT now that I've caught up with all the other Legion eras (except for the last half of TMK) I would say that the Silver Age/Adventure era is easily my favourite!

Love the characters.
Love the concepts.
Love the creativity.

The stories were ahead of their time then and sometimes I think they're still ahead of our time now.

Got flight ring?

Then you're OK by me!

I said "favorites."

Next week in The Brave and the Bold: Sensor teams with Lori Morning! It'll be a hot seller!!!

Funny: if I see any of the four members in the thread name as incompatible, it's Ferro Lad. While I love him in any of his vastly different incarnations, his strenght as a concept (not character) lies in his visual, and, while the concept of an irreparably ugly man may have made sense in the 60's conception of the 30th century, it makes little to no sense in the 31st as seen from the 21st--heck, it doesn't even make much sense now, with plastic surgery being what it is. Even if he couldn't change his face, it stretches suspension of disbelief that he would feel the need to wear a mask in the supposedly-enlightened 31st century would. Making the reboot Ferro from the 20th century worked, but I don't feel that's the sort of thing that can be used twice. Keep Ferro in universes where he's been introduced, I say, but to add him to yet another one would be unbelievable.

I always thought the best way to make Ferro Lad work would be to give him some kind of Medusa-power, where he'd turn others to metal statues if they saw his face.

EDE, I think that's a great idea for Ferro Lad. Maybe a mutant Tromian? It explains would go well with the lead/Daxamite/Trom thing. lead statues?

Given that in the last four issues we've gotten three new Legionnaires reintroduced (Mon-El, White Witch, and Polar Boy, plus Mekt Ranzz) and that the series has gained more attention lately, and the fact that Mr. Waid has not one or two super teams but three currently in the bullpen, I think we can expect that any and all Legionnaires will be introduced eventually. There's probably is no limit to how many Legionnaires we can see in the future. It's a teaser to us fans to see which ones will be introduced next.

PS - I am also of the feeling that I would like to see them reintroduced basically in their original chronological order, or it gets a little squirrelly.

Why do you say that, KQ? Karate Kid, Princess P, Dream Girl, and Timber Wolf were all introduced before Supergirl and Mon-El in this boot to name a few for instances, and I don't see anything problematic about it.

Well, solicits reveal that at least one of our quartet will be showing up during Tony Bedard's run!

And I'm delighted!