Legion-related post (with fairly long discussion thread following) over on BleedingCool.com. Gist of it is:

- September brings #0 issues to all DC 52 titles.
- Giffen will be joining Legion with #0 (not specified in what capacity).
- Lightle is new permanent cover artist.

A Johns

Hmm... we knew before that Giffen would be joining Levitz for something, but this sounds like it will be more longterm than expected. Let's hope he can breathe some life into the book!

Even if Giffen only came in to pencil Levitz's stories, it might be just what the LSH needs.

The Baxter series under levitz was seriously dull and stagnant when Giffen came back and jazzed up proceedings with issue 50.

"Life and death and the end of time" is one of my all time favorites. So many great stories from issues 50 to 63 of that series. The final fate of the Emerald Empress. Blok's search to find himself. Dream Girl finally kicking Atoms's butt. Luornu further cultivating the fascinating aura of tragedy that surrounded her. Poor Polar Boy failing so bad as leader after waiting so long and trying so hard. Shady's terrifyingly fierce love for Mon-El. Lesbians toying with the emotions of
slowwitted straight boys to the point they become suicidal.

It was all clearly the influence of Giffen's imagination.

Let's hope history repeats itself.

Levitz and Giffen have turned out some outstanding tales together. I think the credit is typically that Levitz and him work so well from a plotting standpoint and each's individual work pulls together a lot tighter since they have the same vision in the end.

Their collaboration is always welcome to me, though I imagine it may just be for the "0" issue.

No offense meant to Giffen fans, but I think he's the Anti-Christ of super-hero comic books.

It's funny how KC and I are so much on the same page about L.E.G.I.O.N. but so different on Legion. I loved the Greg LaRocque Baxter era, and I wish he had drawn "Life or Death..." because then I'd have been able to forgive the flaws in Levitz's story. I hated almost everything Giffen did during the last year of the Baxter Legion: the new costumes, the death of the Emerald Empress, Magnetic Kid, the bloody Arch-Mage. Paradoxically, the spotlight on Shady, Mon, and Blok in #56 is one of my favorite issues, but that's largely because Eduardo Barreto guest-pencilled it.

I think Giffen is King Midas in reverse. Everything he touches turns to *bleep*.

Stealth, just imagine how boring it would be if we agreed on everything.

As has been well noted, it seems legion fans either adore Giffen's later work on the series, or they despise it. Just no middle ground there.

And sadly, no matter how you cut it, there's probably no way Giffen coming aboard will translate in the Legion getting the bump in sales it so desperately needs. The book needs a "hot" artist who can create a buzz.

I think Portela is a great artist but maybe doesn't stand out enough. I actually preferred his stuff when he and Cinar were sharing art duties. Since then, Portela seems to have dialed back those expressive flairs that made me really take notice of him at first. I wish he'd go back to them.

As for Giffen, I doubt he'll be on art for more than an issue here and there. I think he's too burnt-out from past runs drawing all those characters to return full-time. However, if he returns as ongoing co-plotter with Levitz, I think that could give the stories just the kick they need!

And, hell, you just CAN'T go wrong with Lightle covers!

Umm.
Maybe you can.
Or rather, I can.
I hate the Nura/Brainy cover.
with a

KC, it would be boring indeed.

Now it's time for me to disagree with Shady...

...and agree with Lardy.

I've always felt that Lightle works best as a cover artist, and I think the Nura/Brainy cover is just as good as his past covers.

I think that Paul Levitz & Keith Giffen together on the Legion is greater than the sum of the parts.

I love Giffens plotting and lightle's covers so can't wait!

Harby, while the latter is confirmed, the former is just speculation at this point. Giffen may or may not just be around just for the 'zero' issue.

<== :fingerscrossed:

Fingers crossed too, which does make typing this reply difficult

yeah, they did. thirty years ago.

i really really wish to see someone new (and, possibly, good) writing the legion, for a change.

It's hard to believe that the last really "new" writers we've had on the Legion for a long-term run were DnA...

I wouldn't mind them getting a shot at the regular version of the Legion. They seem to have hit a good vibe with space drama...from what I hear with what they did at Marvel.

I am praying the Giff can re-spark my interest in LSH... one thing is certain to me at any rate: his presence certainly cannot make things worse than they currently are.

PS/ I wouldn't count on seeing Giff's art regularly on LSH but I wouldn't count on not seeing it at all either

*resists urge to slam your use of 'regular'*

Space-wise, DnA are doing their own series, Hypernaturals, now (the #0 issue of which is Boom's FCBD book this year). Unfortunately, they're paired with Brad Walker, the really stiff artist from their GotG run.

There's an interview here and a preview here .

At this point, I agree with Mr. Kayak in that more than anything I'd like a brand new voice. That being said, I'm optimistic about Giffen's return if it comes to pass. Like Lash says, it can't hurt the series, which has grown increasingly weak.

I don't buy for a minute that he'll do regular art though I'd welcome it in any capacity.

yeah, i find that very sad. especially considering how fresh DnA's legion was, instead of everything that followed.
this book desperately needs some new blood. how bitterly ironic to see that the one DC comics' book set in the future is actually stuck in the past...

i have to say that my interest in the legion is also crippled by the whole dark trend almost every DCU title is living these last few years. right now i'm buying less DC books that i did when i was a student and i hadn't any money.

I actually struggled with what term to use. I didn't want to use 'original,' since this is not the original version in my mind, but the closest we're going to get...and I know we could debate that for hours, and probably a few full threads without reaching a consensus on it.

I still say that if Geoff had any balls, he would have picked up after the 5YL stuff and went from there.

Well this is good news if Giffen can help with the plotting of stories. Levitz is great at throwing initial ideas into the mix but has poor execution.Does this mean we will never get the followup to Projectra’s dream of Karate Kid from the Adventure series? Hopefully Matter-Eater Lad will make an appearance.

Again, for now news of Giffen coming back in some longterm capacity is just speculation. His involvememt in the "zero" issue hasn't even been confirmed, though I think it's pretty likely he'll at least co-plot or even draw that one issue.

Interestingly, one of the big stories this week on BC and the other comics news websites was writer Chris Roberson's cutting ties with DC. Chris is the guy who wrote Star Trek/LSH. Chris stated that he cut ties over DC's treatment of creators and their business practices. Here is an interesting part of his statement:

Sorry. In a better world, characters like the Legion would be owned by a more ethical company, but sadly not in this one.

Now, this could just be a references he used because he'd just done the Star Trek thing. However, I found the mention oddly specific to be a part of his statement. It makes me wonder if he'd been up for replacing Levitz, and it went wrong somehow with his pitch being rejected. And maybe he got wind of where DC wanted to go with the LSH and felt it was a disservice to the characters.

This is pure speculation, but the reference made me go there. It seemed an oddly specific reference when you consider all of the more prominent properties he could have mentioned.

Here's the article from BC. There's not any more info there about the Legion, but you can see what I mean.

Sounds to me like it's a reference to a specific fan question about the possibility of him writing the Legion.

That could very well be the case. It still makes me wonder if something specific set him off and if something Legion-related might have been the spark.

I could be wrong but I think what set him off was the whole "Before Watchmen" thing.

How 'bout "current"?

Yup. We're not talking private e-mails here, people!
Also:
and

Not everything is about the Legion...

That's cool. I'm not a, er, Twitter-er, so I can see now that the quote was out of context. To be fair, the article could have been edited a little better (probably without the Legion reference) to prevent speculation like I made. Honestly, taken out of context, I think it was fair on my part.

I find ironic that nowadays, unless a book is written by Geoff Johns or Grant Morrison, or isn't Batman, it doesn't sell that great.

So I doubt that having someone like Giffen or Lightle coming on board would make the book sell that much more. we can hope though.

And I certainly hope that when Legion Lost is cancelled (let's face it, it's only a question of time), the characters will be folded back into LSH.

It\'s Official. Giffen and Levitz six issue arc starting with #13.

The new arc features the new DCU version of the Fatal Five:

Yay for Giff.

But the main thing I get from the article is the Legion has never met the Fatal Five here and that is annoying beyond words if I understand that correctly.

Well, it smooths out the why Validus and Tharok are back questions nicely.

If Sarya's death hadn't been referenced in the Annual, I'd suggest maybe she hasn't been Empress yet. But maybe they'll fudge over that anyway.

With no Fatal Five, the deaths of at least Ferro Lad and possibly Invisible Kid couldn't have happened the way they did preboot. Plus Shadow Lass's joining must have happened differently.

Didn't the Fatal Five appear in Legion of 3 Worlds? Or was that now just a little wrinkle in time that has been smoothed over?

It matters as much as New Krypton and that Supergirl Annual. Deleted.

I bet all those Legionnaires who went back to New Krypton were really just vacationing all this time.

You know, like Bouncing Boy and Duo Damsel were on their second honeymoon, which is why the rest of the Legion couldn't find them. What?

Considering like half of L03W was about bringing back Superboy and Impulse, both of whom have since been rebooted, I definitely wouldn't count on that as reliable at all for continuity.

Just 6 issues? Hope they sell well so he will be asked back. Levitz NEEDS Giffen, I think.

As for the possible retconning out of Fatal 5 continuity, yes that is pretty annoying.

I've just had to face the facts-- history at DC (and the Legion's fistory) are nonexistent. Every Crisis deletes what came before it. The DCnU's time is numbered too.

I'm actually not really bothered by this at all, but I've been pretty much over the pretense of trying to hammer in the round peg of preboot Legion continuity into the square hole of the rest of the DC Universe since the retroboot began.

Agreed; it's best to just enjoy what you're reading now without trying to make yourself crazy fitting it into a no-longer existent continuity. And don't believe what DC tells us is and isn't in continuity because they can obviously change that at their mad whim.

You know, I know that, and have made peace with it in other places like Superman and Teen Titans, but for whatever reason it's bothering me. I guess I really am starting to hate the DCnU and the only way I can get over that is if the story is so good, my prior connection with the franchise doesn't matter.

So, no pressure. It has to be the best story in years or I'll hate it.

^Same. I can always pretend, "Hey, it's an Elseworlds"... Continuity ain't all that important, and the old stories still happened somehow, somewhere.

Ohhh man...this is maybe the first continuity bollocking in the Legionverse that I really have a problem with.. :\

I agree with the comments that it's best to just concentrate on the stories now and not try to fit everything together in a complex puzzle when it clearly just doesn't fit, but...

It's the scale of it. The Fatal Five are such a huge part of Legion lore. Ferro Lad's death is one of the most classic superhero stories period, and it just feels like sacrilege messing with that kind of stuff for no particular reason.

Things like Shady and Mon-El never having been married...sure, it bugs me, but at the end of the day I can get over it. Such a massive part of Legion history having never existed when there's no reason for them not to have though...I dunno, it rubs me the wrong way. You don't have to be a slave to continuity, but I think you need to respect the cornerstones that a universe is built on, and the Fatal Five is definitely one of the cornerstones of the Legion's particular history.

I lived through the Threeboot and the Reboot, and even found stuff to love in them.

I never really believed that this was the 'classic' team, thanks to the weird discontinuity in Action and Lo3W and the first year of Levitz's return, and some of the strange characterization hiccups, so I'm not hugely shocked that Paul has given up and just said it's all new again.

Whatever. I'm sure I'll find stuff to like in the future Legion(s), whether or not they have any bearing on the past Legion(s).

Hopefully Paul doesn't feel the need to retell the Universo story again, or bring back Darkseid for another run. Been there, done that, multiple times, and I don't think he's ever gonna top the Universo Project or the Great Darkness Saga.

The whole Fatal Five deletion just opens up waaay more problems then it solves.

Stupid Fracking DCNU...grumble grumble bitch moan...

oh my exactly my thought!

someone needs to ask that question to Paul at SDCC and have him explain how and why, etc.

anyone volunteer? I am unable to go to the SDCC because I will be in Lake Tahoe celebrating the organization s 30th anniversary party. sigh.

The Fatal Five are a HUGE part of Legion lore and removing them from continuity is like removing the Joker from Batman or Lex Luthor from Superman histories.

No Fatal Five? Is this another move dictated to Levitz by TPTB or did he really come up with this himself? Totally unneccessary move in my eyes, but like so many people here I have stopped bothering. I got some enjoyment out of the last few Legion issues so that's a good sign, always loved Levitz / Giffen as a team, so I'll certainly stay on board but I doubt that any new reader will be lured to the book by some cool new Fatal Five thingie when he just has to google that those Fatal Five aren't so new at all... I guess this is just another of those AINT THAT OH SO COOL moves that sacrifices the remnants of meaning and continuity to a quick special effect (anybody remember Morrison giving us the un-eaten Miracle Machine during Final Crisis???)... or Karate Kid during Countdown...

By the way: Has it ever been explained how Karate Kid came back from the dead before Lightning Saga??? I have read so much garbage during the last four years I really cannot remember...