From ComicVine.com:
http://www.comicvine.com/news/exclusive-legion-of-super-heroes-16-5-page-preview/143462/

Wow, Zymr's found a new role! Or should I say 'roll?' As a bowling ball!

And those villains! What sort of total-lack-of-dignity does one need to have to dress up in a pink pig costume? (And why do prisoners on Takron-Galtos all get put into their cells with their weapons, armor and / or costumes? Silly 31st century prison system!)

Is it too much to hope that Sodam Yat gets inducted into the Legion and then killed off 5 seconds later?

Cosmic Boy: Sodam Yat, welcome to the Leg...
ZZAAP!!!
Cosmic Boy: Hmmm... I guess I'll be taking that ring back.

Didn't the cover artist say the cover image was somewhat missleading, or words to that effect?

So, Yat dies or maybe he dies in EM's body or even better, they both die.
Or worse, both of their bodies die and their psyches end up absorbed into Lar.

A little underwhelming, I'd say. Not sure how the heck this will lead into Legion Lost, or the new status quo.

The death was predictable, but some people won't be all that happy about <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">giving Earth Man a herioc out</span></span>.

Are we ever going to get an explanation about Shady's personality transplant?

They could have at least named the villain.

True, but even they would probably admit that it is better than <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">a REAL Hero</span></span> dying

Not likely.

Should have, Could have, but in typically DC fassion, didn't and won't.

Read it. Bleah.

Blandest 16-issue LSH run ever. EVER.

And that includes the Gerry Conway/Dr. Mayavale/Ditko/Legion on the Run/reboot-Archie runs.

Worst parts of the 3boot too.

You get the picture.

So, does that mean you liked it or didn't like it?

*runs for cover in bomb shelter made of inertron*

Blandest, or worst? Although looking back, Shooter only got to 14 issues.

this sucked.....period

What the F#*% was that ? That issue made absolutely no sense at all. That has to be one of the worst comic books I have ever had the misfortune of reading. The last few issues have been bad but this..this is a complete mess. Can someone explain what happened? This is so GD frustrating I feel like I missed an issue or two.

ARGGHHHHHHH!!!

I want my money back

ditto .... I just bought it to hate on it.

This run has had a few redeeming moments... return of reader-elected leaders... Tenzil's one page... the annual... the ACADEMY storyarc (particularly Phil's 3 issues)...Colossal Boy has a great moment in # 16...

But, ummm... yeah. Mr. Levitz needs a co-writer STAT, or an artist who's knowledge of the LSH is on the level of Phil's.

I will **NOT** buy 16 more issues of blandness. Maybe bringing in the Academy kids will spice things up. The Dominion is definitely my most favorite LSH foes to love to hate...

We'll see.

It was pretty bad.
sigh

I really know that this is the retroboot because that isn't Tasmia Mallor, the original.
She's not even a decent substitute.

(Why would she blame Lar ('especially you'?)

And how did Kirt die?
What happened, he absorbed too much power?
How'd that defeat Krona Jr.?


I'm having a hard time believing Levitz wrote this one.

Great Scott!

Now I'm looking forward to reading this run just to see what all the uproar is about!

Trust me, EDE... just skip it.

I can scan Gim's cool page from # 16 (I know we like him) and do get the annual. The rest?

The rest is unsalted, unpeppered unbuttered un-anything-ed potatoes.

Oh, *DO* get LSH ACADEMY.

I've got the Earth Man's Choice hardcover which I've been avoiding reading since it came out. I figure I'll pick up the other two(?) and then eventually read the complete run at the same time.

I'll definitely pick up the Academy series when it comes out as well. I skipped the first "early days" collection, because I figured it would just irritate me.

Well I didn't buy it just to "hate on it"; I was really hoping for a good read.

Yes... it definitely would have irritated.

As the LSH stands right now, I think there are several writers on this very forum who would do a much much better job and deserve a shot at it.

bwahaha ... I flipped through it at the comic store ... I usually don't get LSH anymore actually ... but I was so confused and happened to catch Tasmia's weird scene/behavior ... I HAD TO BUY IT. LOL!!!


Some of my favorite parts:

(and by favorite I mean hysterically bad)

1) The retro sexist portrayal of Tasmia.

Which reminds me of my possibly favorite post from this thread:

Topic: Things You Can Say In Comics .... That You Don't Say In Real Life.

2) That the whole run is a Green Lantern story.

3) That it should have been called:
'Green Lantern' featuring 'Earth Man and the Legion of Super Heroes.'

I always wondered why Earth Man didn't change his name ... after he joined ... he can't down play down his genocidal past ... even a little. 'Absorbancy Man' is still available.

4) What's with the weird scene where <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Dream Girl, Star Boy, and Harmonia are touching Earth Man? Are they sharing willpower via touch 'cause I'm not sure it works that way. Were they invisible, or did the teleport in ?? When did they become friends (as Dreamy said) ? </span></span>

5) and who is narrating at the end? Whatever happend with Sodam Yat ... seems like a pretty dull fulfillment of a destiny.

I also thought Brainy's satisfaction was pretty unsatisfactory.

I actualy LOVE this issue ... I hope it gains a cult following like ... Catwoman the movie.

No self-respecting cult will ever be into this issue.

I agree, the Shady scenes are borderline hilarious.

Maybe Levitz had to wrap up all his storylines because of the relaunch? That's my guess for why this issue felt like we missed out on some of the story.

I'm not sure it's supposed to lead in to either of the relaunch books. It seems like a lot of DC's books are wrapping up their stories so they can have a clean break next month. It seems like the GL books are the only ones that pick up right where they leave off this month. I think Legion and Legion Lost will begin new stories that don't reference much of what just happened.

I'm pretty sure (per interview with Levitz?) there's supposed to be a "5 Week Gap" or something like that between this and the new series...

GD? Great Darkness?

someone ought to ask Paul Levitz to see if he actually uses the scorecard like he used to use when he was writing in 80s. Without scorecard, I can see how bad it is....tsk tsk.

oh is there the backlash or harsh word against Paul in facebook?

Harmonia Li. Didn't all this mess start because of the foolish experiment she and her colleagues did at the Time Institute? Now after lives are lost and worlds are wrecked, she takes Brainy's arm and says, "Perhaps we shall see if I belong with the Legion."

Earth-Man, now her. Are there no consequences for people who kill or cause the deaths of others?

Levitz can weave together some interesting plot ideas, but the core of the story seems to be hollow. Or maybe I'm missing something. I should read this 16-issue run as a whole and see if I feel differently.

In her defense, Harmonia Li half-heartedly suggested it was a bad idea, before letting them do it anyway.

While her actions were anything but heroic, that day, the dudes who are actually responsible for turning on the time-viewer both died in the aftermath.

IIRC, they were aliens as well. Kind of odd after a storyline about earth-xenophobia for so many consistent portrayals of alien prisoners breaking out of Takron-Galtos and all the prison guards being human, of a human-looking time researcher trying to talk some obviously alien researchers out of blowing up Titan, Durlan assassins killing the human SP chief, etc.

These last 16 issues seem to be suggesting that the xenophobes are right...

If she could wave her hand and slam Dream Girl against a wall, she certainly could have stopped her colleagues from completing the experiment. And with her "immortal" wisdom, she should bear the greatest responsibility for the consequences.

So EM just gets a power boost from the last Green Lantern... suddenly he can absorb everyone's powers at once...blue guy & EM go boom! No explanation of how Star Boy Dreamy & Harmonia Li show up or what they are doing

Partially cross posted from the DC LSHMB.

Compare this issue with the last chapter of The Great Darkness Saga, I counted 77 word balloons in 20 pages in LSH #16, LSH #294 hits 77 word balloons at 10 pages. Doesn't Paul get paid by the word?

Ah, got me there. I didn't know she had any super-powers.

(The largest city in backwater NH doesn't get comics until Thursday afternoon, so I haven't seen it yet.)

That's actually a surprise. Li having had the power to stop this whole thing from happening in the first place, ends up making the story *even more lame than I'd thought.*

What projects did Phil do for DC after they pulled him off of Academy?
What a mistake!

I think that Paul really needs a Phil or a Barry, someone with ideas and the ability to 'fix' all of the inconsistancies and lame stuff, either with suggestions or illustrations, before they turn into a mess, like most of the last 16 issues.

Tasmia, since she blames everyone for not liking EM, what an idiot, sigh, she'll probably be one of the Legionnaires who resigns.
She'll go home and become a nun because of her deep, undying love of a psycho, that spanned a couple of months.

I was prepared after reading comments here to hate the issue, but oddly enough I didn't. Not that I adored it, as it was a fast and predictable read, but I did find it adequate to the purposes of wrapping this randomness up. The bad guy was defeated (even if I don't even have a name for him) and somebody died, which was about all I expected coming into the issue. With those standards, low as they were, I don't feel as cheated.

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">I'd mourn Earth-Man, except I always think back to Johns' Earth-Man and the crimes he committed. Really sours anything heroic he's ever done the whole book and I still don't buy into him as a genuine hero, no matter how many tears Shadow Lass cries.</span></span>

I think a lot of the things that people are harping on I've just grown used to from the book already. It's easier for me to digest too knowing that there's a bit of a new direction coming to hopefully add some interest back into the team. With our deceased Legionnaire gone and the Green Lantern story elements removed, things can only go up in my opinion. I'm more worried about the cast of Legion Lost than the cast of the core book right now anyway.

I haven't read this book yet - but am I correct in thinking that the blue baby never gets a name? So the big bad of this whole series is just some random unidentified blue baby? What a joke!

As disappointed as I've been with Levitz's writing though - I wouldn't blame this on him. I think it's been as plain as day to everyone that that baby was meant to be Krona - who also happened to just be killed off last month in 'The War of the Green Lantern Corps' story over in GLC. I wonder if an editor didn't step in here and prevent Levitz from using that character since he had just been killed off so recently somewhere else?

Blacula, I can almost buy that, I think... Plus, I seriously doubt Levitz was wanting to write a Green Lantern story and can't blame him for turning Absorbancy Boy into a well-known character... I can almost believe TPTB forced the GL and Earth Man stories upon Levitz and us.

So I'll spread this blame equally between them.

That I enjoyed LSH ACADMEY so much more is likely because of less interference by TPTB and more Levitz being able to do what HE wants to do, and especially with the assist of a Jiminez-level talent to co-launch with.

I think it's really ironic that...

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Earthman's forarm is shown on the first issue of this series as well as the last.</span></span>

Oh well, it's over. On to the new NEW series #1!

It's not clear if the blue baby (now grown) is Krona or not - he mentions "evil loosed on the universe by Krona's crime", but is he talking about himself in the third person, in that tried-and-true villain (or Sodam Yat) fashion, or is he something else?

It was a wrap-up issue; as others have said, a quick read and not entirely fulfilling. After such a long battle with Saturn Queen, it's suddenly over, with a lot of nothing-really-happening pages.

One problem is <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">I never warmed up to Earthman, and never thought he was really trustworthy - and there was that reference in the previous issue about how he could easily be brought over to the LSV. So his death didn't have much impact other than good riddance. If he'd been around longer, proven himself, established friendships with someone besides Tasmia, it might have been different. Also, I haven't really enjoyed Tasmia's behaviour in this run.</span></span>

I hadn't thought about the fact that Harmonia Li could have stopped the destruction of Titan, based on what she's done since - maybe it's just a glitch we have to overlook. Or maybe she can't interfere with free will.

Still, it was okay to see her arm-in-arm with Brainy at the end, whether they're just companions or she's making a move on him.

It looks like the GLs are going to be around in the 31st century. I hope they keep to the background.

One more thing: the art in these "final" issues sometimes leaves something to be desired, but I thought this artwork was fine. Thin on the background detail (which I like) but no complaint otherwise.

Some say ironic, others say nicely circular...

So, for Legion 'endings,' we've had;

A badly drawn children's watercolor version of Mon-El punching the universe out of existence.

A conga line of Legionnaires fleeing the universe they failed to save.

A writer so ashamed of his work, he signed it 'Justin Thyme' failing to deliver anything from the solicit.

And now this. I guess, in retrospect, it's better than the average Legion 'end.'

I think I'm gonna stick to the definitive Legion 'end' being the last page of Superboy's Legion.

This felt very much like "wrap up everything before the reboot", even if Legion's not actually being rebooted much. The entire GL plot is probably abruptly cut off because of the NewDCU--there's no way to use GLs in the future if we don't even know what the GLs are like in the present, or if Paul even still has permission to use GLs at all.

The Earth-Man "redemption" was also stupid (and I still haven't seen a good explanation for Shady liking him) and incidentally got rid of another pre-NewDCU loose end.

And what's Harmonia Li doing as a good guy? Helping blow up Titan should disqualify anyone from Legion membership. (Of course, if she's immortal, she does have a power.)

Jim Shooter had his story abruptly cut off by management 4 issues from his intended ending. Don't blame him.

well to be sure Ken...i'm not sure it would have been well received if Jim's plans saw fruition such as having Invisible Kid have a sex change....*totally serious...read Jim's ideas he wanted to fulfill on his blog*

I didn't. I have no idea who wrote that issue.

Whoever wrote it thought so little of it that they wouldn't sign their name to it, which is all I was saying there. Nothing about Shooter.

Lyle was supposed to have a sex change, but worse, much worse, imo, was Jeckie going insane, turning Brin into a lap dog and raping one of the heroes (Superboy, IIRC) and getting pregnant from the act and that was somehow going to allow the future Legion to have a possible chance to save the future.

That sounds like utter garbage of a story!!

If this is true, I can see why DC pulled the plug.

A supposed outline of that story was posted here:

http://www.legionworld.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000911

I have to say, it actually sounded interesting on paper.

...though it would probably have made a better Elseworlds, what with all the drastic changes to characters like Lyle, Jeckie, Brainy, Brin and Cos.

This pretty much sums up my feelings about the whole run of both books.

In the spirit of saying nothing if you can't say something nice: I did like seeing that Power Boy and Gravity Kid were definitely a pair-- and definitely going to stay one, at least for awhile.

I just read this issue. In about 5 minutes. What. utter. crap. I was just telling my comic shop owner that I wished Marvel would just buy out DC so that we could have some decent talent on Legion and other DC books. Marvel must pay a LOT better than DC is all I can think of. If this is the best Paul Levitz has left in him, I want a new writer and definitely a new artist.

Though I haven't read #16 yet, I really have to second your feelings about this run getting worse those last few issues. I thought the first storyline was okay, the Annual was great but when there was nothing left than constant fighting for over four or five issues, I really started to think "What a weak story". Especially compared to the phantastic first Levitz LSV storyline (v3 ##1-5).

The Legion needs room for characterization and interaction. This was nearly totally left out those last few issues, and I don't know if it's only me but an issue filled with nothing but fighting is not what I want to read these days...

...especially when I have totally lost track of who is fighting where and which Legionnaire is supposed to be in which subteam. And who all those bad guys are. And who all these Mon-Els are

I really do hope that Levitz will reduce speed after this storyline. The new members might be a good focus to show the Legion in other ways than constant battling. I also have some hopes for the Secret Origins series.

Levitz needs to shed some light on the characters, on their relationships and their differences. This can't be all about fighting - I got a share of bad X-Men comics from the 90s in my collection, if I want to read about constant fighting I'll pick up those I did not manage to sell yet...

I'd have been totally cool with a big running fight over several issues, if the Legionnaires present had made innovative or cool use of their powers. If Jacques had actually, maybe, for once in his life, *turned invisible and done something,* or if Timber Wolf had remembered that he was a non-invulnerable, non-regenerating super-acrobat, who is supposed to be fighting like Nightwing or Spider-Man, and not a second-rate Wolverine-clone, and Element Lad used his powers in a way that didn't do more harm to him than the guy he was fighting...

They really came across as keystone cops, instead of experienced and competent heroes.

I want to see scenes like Cham beating the shapeshifter on Durla through a *smart* use of his powers, or threeboot Dreamy kicking butt with combat precognitive abilities, or Element Lad putting up a lead shield *to protect Superboy from his powers,* when he created gold K to stop the Superman-clone that Darkseid sent.

I wanna see some Crowning Moments of Awesome, and not from friggin' Earth-Man!

.. yeah there was no tension ... no thrill or pace .. . just big images of 'so and so' punching 'so and so'.

Ugh, not only was this the worst Legion story I have ever read, I'm pretty sure it was the worst comic book I've ever read period. I mean...what even happened?? We still don't know who the bad guy is or his origin. What did Earth-Man even DO?? How did Star Boy fulfill Dream Girl's prophecy about his power saving the day? Are we meant to believe that Harmonia Li is gonna join the Legion now? Does she have any powers aside from being immortal??

This series has been pretty uninspiring as a whole, but the final issue was just plain horrible.

At this point I am gonna give the relaunch a chance, but Paul Levitz has pretty much exhausted any faith I had in him, he is gonna have to start actually writing something decent and not just relying on the fact that he did that 25 years ago.

I'm not spending any more of my money on a comic that is at best mediocre just because I have an investment in the characters that are in it.

The only thing good in this issue is Earth Man is dead!

Good point!

PLEEEASE let this be the end of shoehorned-in Green Lantern stuff and rampant xenophobia on Earth stories now and can we get back to the actual real Legion everyone came for in the first place?

did not like this issue and it was a weak ending to the LSV story line. still i'm still scratching my head as to the identity of the final planet, was it the remains of Mogo? or was it Maltus the birth planet of the Guardians? and the Bad guy was he some reborn form of Krona?
this entire run started out strong but it had a weak ending i hope the new series fairs better than this one.

I picked the issue up yesterday after having already read most of the comments on this thread. No, it wasn't a great issue but my reaction wasn't nearly as negative as most here. Things were wrapped up pretty neatly, at least by comparison to the Durlan story. The art was actually pretty good. Earth Man is dead and Mon-El is no longer a Green Lantern. These are both developments I'm happy with.

Good thing I read this thread. When I finished this book, I thought "What the heck happened with Sodam Yat?" It wasn't clear to me what he had done to E-Man.

Man, this was not a good story. I thought it started out well, but the conclusion has been a mess.

Let's hope we get at least one good Legion series come September!

I'm here to defend Mr. Levitz. I totally believe he has not been allowed to do his job by TPTB. In sixteen issues of LSH, he's had to deal with the shortened page count, rookie artists, and a sudden conclusion deadline for the company wide reboot. I am sure his original scripts when this series first started no where near resemble the final printed product.

I hope someone will put a helmet on Dan Didio and stop feeding him candy bars so his sugar frenzy will calm down and the creative teams can actually be allowed to build up some kind of storytelling momentum without interference.

What DID Yat do?
I don't get it.
sigh

And I think that Levitz knew about the 52 at least as long as the other writers and artists who were assigned the new books, probably longer.

It's probably why we've seen Tyro, Tellus, Gates and Yera used since the retroboot began.
We always see Brin, Dawny and Wildfire, really, but they've been prominent, too.

What they would do to a Shooter, they wouldn't do to a Levitz.
imo

What happened to Earth Man certainly leaves lots of unanswered questions...what did Sodam Yat do?? And how much did the effects of a fixed flight ring continue to alter his personality? Too many unanswered questions....but maybe Levitz partially wanted that?

I expect so, but I think Levitz probably had a good part of the first year of LSH plotted out before he even left his publisher position. The shortened page counts and the 52 reboot news surfaced after and he had to spend extra time rewriting, condensing and editing down his story most of the way thru. This is of course only speculation on my part.

I am not cool with B5/Li so far. Not cool at all.

[snip]



I agree that there was too heavy a stench of editorial meddling this time out, KQ. It would be really nice at this point if they kept their word and let the Legion book exist in its own sphere-- mostly detached from the rest of the DC-verse and the never-ending supply of Big Events. But it's unlikely, I suppose.

Hear, hear.

To be fair, Levitz has thrown in some nice character moments in his run. Hopefully we'll see more of that later on.

I have to say that both the story and art on my book are better than this crap and I'm not a paid professional with 30 years of comic book writing experience.

I think Mr. Levitz has squandered whatever street cred he ever had with this book. Next writer please.

Well, so long as we're blowing our own horns, I'd like to categorically state that my collages are about a million jillion times better than anything by that overexposed hack Anne Taintor. The market for trained professionals cares not one whit what I think, sad to say.

Also, your project is your own and you have nobody else you need to answer to in order to get it published (so long as you can pay to do so), which is not the case for anyone who works in a large organization like DC. Frankly, the current run had the heavy hand of Editorial visibly all over it from the first issue. (Lantern-mania. Yawn.) And I suspect the crummy, muddled ending we got to this arc is directly attributable to there being yet another retooling of the books.

Quote

I think Mr. Levitz has squandered whatever street cred he ever had with this book. Next writer please.

This strikes me as unduly harsh, TBH. "Street cred"? What does that even mean in this context? I'll be interested in reading Niceza's work, just as I would have checked out Johns' writing had he stuck around instead of Levitz. I don't know whether it will matter, though, since my problems with how DC operates go way deeper than an individual creator's style.

This issue was one of the low points of Paul's career as a Legion writer. It was confusing, poorly drawn, and boring. The only thing I liked about it is that it got rid of a horrible character.

I think, though, that the poor quality of this issue was not entirely Paul's fault; it's almost certainly the case that like every other recent Legion writer, he's had to revise his original plans due to editorial interference. Hopefully Paul will have more creative freedom when the new series begins.