So... it's confirmed.

I will be very interested to read LSH #23 to see if this is supposed to tie-in with the Legion mythos in any way. If not, I may sample the first issue and then drop it. Replacing the Legion of Super-Heroes with a futuristic Justice League just looks like a slap in the face to Legion fans. DC seems to think only Justice League characters sell comics. Well let them, I'll treasure my Legion collection and part company, if they leave us Legion in the dust.

If it were Justice League 2900, I'd be a lot more excited. So many centuries to fill in between now and the Legion's time. Still, I'll definitely check it out. The GL design is quite captivating.

In the comments to that story, there's lots of speculation whether or not these are Legionnaires or have some connection to the Legion and if that's Wally West as the Flash. Who knows? I'd just as soon it be an entirely fresh start about some group in the future, but how fresh can it be if these characters have the same powers and motivations as the Justice League?

Whatever this is, it's certainly not the Legion. This is a slap in the face to DC's most loyal fans. I'm going to keep buying Astro City, but otherwise I'm done with this horrible excuse for a comic book company.

Oh brother...

The 80s fanboy in me who loved every single issue of that creative team's Justice League run is fighting the lifelong LSH fanboy in me--!!!

I'm not even remotely interested in this. Frankly I hated the Bwahaha League after this first 6 or 7 issues. It wasn't until the Despero storyline that I became interested in that run again.

Whatever this is, I would rather have any incarnation of the Legion over yet another Justice League book. I mean, seriously, how many team books does the Justice League need? They've already taken anything special about the League and watered it down. Heck, it seems anyone can call themselves the Justice League in the new 52 Comic Pickup...

The saving grace is that, whatever this is, it doesn't appear to have anything to do with the Legion, so at least Giffen's crew can't destroy them further. I hope...

Ya think after 1000 years, and a half-dozen Earth-born male Green Lanterns, the planet Earth would have finally produced a *woman* capable of wearing a Green Lantern ring. Heck, for that matter, with all the emotional spectrum to play with, it's maybe a bit backwards-looking to have the 'lantern legacy' even be a Green, and not a Blue or Indigo or Yellow or something a bit newer and fresher.

No female Flash legacies need apply either, for that matter, it seems. By amazing (and, statistically, fairly unlikely) coincidence, the five Justice League legacies just happen to be the exact same genders (and, probably, occupy the same sorts of roles, so that the Batman legacy won't be super-powered and the Superman legacy will have the standard Kryptonian array).

Interesting that an Atlantean legacy isn't on the table. Finding out what happens to Atlantis, Thanagar, Themiscrya, etc. is probably the only thing I'd find truly interesting about a 1000 years later Justice League, other than totally mixing stuff up and having a super-powered (vampiric?) Batman legacy fighting alongside a non-super Superman legacy (using Kryptonian tech to augment DNA so watered down by human/hybridization as to be almost powerless).

Artistically, it seems that hexagons have replaced Jim Lee's panel/lines. Four out of five Leaguers now have hexagons (like from Man of Steel) on their uniforms!

The thing I don't get is why do this at all, Legion or no Legion - future counterparts to current books rarely sell well for long. This is trading entirely on the creative team, and they could do a CURRENT day book just as easily.

Zero interest in this.
It's not the Legion, and can't replace them.

Creative bankruptcy reigns supreme at both of the big two.

I'm done.

For the record, I totally called it here.

I'm not convinced that this is all there will be to Legion or the 31st century. While on the surface and due to timing, it does look like it's "replacing" LSH, both of these books could have existed side by side (at least based on what we know now.) I'm going to hold out hope there's something more coming.

It was speculated... somewhere... that the red-haired Flash could be Wally West. That being said, the Wonder Woman could be Donna Troy. Although maybe spelled more futury... D'awnna T'roee?

The only possible silver lining would be IF this new Justice League book becomes wildly popular, then possibly DC might do a Justice League/Legion crossover and launch a reboot Legion as a counterpart. Of course, if this was DC's plan, they could have kept Levitz on the current Legion title, and worked on a crossover with Justice League 3000, IF it became wildly popular as a way to increase Legion sales down the road.

Obviously, DC isn't committed to the Legion and is willing to throw 50 years of history in the trash trying to create the next big thing in it's place. I have a feeling LSH #23 is intended to bring current Legion fans into fanbase for this new title. It won't work if the Legion ceases to exist.

It wouldn't surprise me if the Big Five were supplemented by some familiar Legionnaires.

Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me either... Giving us just enough Legion faces to try to hook us into this title. What a sham!

If this is the Legion's future with DC, then I hereby give Paul Levitz permission to kill off the whole Legion team saving the universe from the Fatal Five!

The big question: Will it be Polar Boy, Invisible Kid and the ghosts of the dead Legionnaires shown in LSH #20 who saves the day in LSH #22 or this new Justice League team? I don't know if I want the answer!

No.

I dunno, I'm not seeing these folk as Donna, Wally, Kyle, etc. (Dick and Conner, both of whom Didio wanted out anyway?).

Why would those people be in the 30th century? I'd rather they be in the 21st century, or, if they are felt to 'get in the way' of Hal, Barry, etc., shunted into a parallel universe like 'Earth 7; land of grown-up sidekicks' or something, and end up with other more or less abandoned or forgotten (or dead) characters like Miss Martian or Conner Hawk or Golden Eagle or Garth/Tempest.

Pretty slim lining, IMO. Part of the Legion's charm for me has been their status as premier superhero team of the future. The Legion IS the Justice League of the future, in a way (but so much more).

So here we have the usual Justice League powers and looks. Take away the crazy aliens, the youthful optimism, the fun and fantastic powers liek elemental transmutation or teleportation portals or matter-eating...

A fully-powered Legion could take this future Jusitce League down any day!

Unless on the off chance the members of the Justice League are actually Legionnaires who have taken on secret identities: Mon-El as Superman, Lightning Lad as Flash, Cosmic Boy as Batman, etc. only their powers aren't what most readers expect. I doubt this would be true, but it would be the only positive possibility that I can think of. Still, even then I don't like the idea.

I admire your optimism, Leather Wolf. I don't quite like that idea either, but it's a bit better than completely eliminating the Legion. It intrigues me somewhat, in fact.

I have good memories of the writers, so I'm somewhat torn as well. But then it would be hard for me to enjoy something that had to destroy the Legion in order to exist (huh, maybe that's part of why I detest the Threeboot so! but the plotting played a bigger part ).

Blecch.

Not even going to buy the first issue of this one.

In all reality, I hope Justice League 3000 launches with a smaller readership than what the Legion ends with, just to prove a point that DC can't replace Legion with any old thing. Just watch it, in this market, JL 3000 becomes one of DC's top 10 sellers. Boy would I be mad if that happened.

This. If DC is going to all the trouble, effort, and yes, destruction to bring us this future Justice League, then at least be creative enough to mix it up some.

That sure does look like Wally though, from the hair to the goggles. I've been part of the 'Where's Wally?' campaign but if it takes the end of the Legion to bring Wally back, then that's just salt on the wound.

Either way, I'm not reading this title. The future belongs to the Legion.

May all their pubic hair turn to fishhooks.

When I achieve my corporate takeover of DC, I'm going to cancel all comics with the words "Justice League" in the title. The entire line will be devoted only to the Legion and the JSA.

The day after that, I'll grow wings.

You can be the rebooted Dawnstar/Polar Boy combination character! A winged tracker with ice powers!

THIS.

JUST. NO.

I will not buy it. I will not read it. It is NOT Legion. It can NOT replace them.

LOSH #23 is truly the end of the Legion.

I'm ashamed to admit this, but I'm halfway tempted to get it because I love that creative team.

My Legion collection will definitely end with LSH #23. Once I buy that issue I will be done with DC Comics!

Don't do it! Protest the slaughter of your favorite superhero team with your wallet! Don't give in to the corporate machine!

*gets out picket sign*

Actually, Paul Levitz slaughtered them figuratively even before he started doing it literally!

That's entirely true, sadly enough. I don't know how i'm going to react emotionally when I'm holding that last issue. I think I might cry.

Yeah, when issue #23 is out I'm done with DC too.

Only one woman and they are all white. How 1970s is that?

me too, normally i would buy whatever these guys did (or at least try it) but ... this is kind of gross ... i don't see how this could appeal to them as creators ... unless they need the money.

at least she has pants!

I think that red hair is a marketing teaser ... to start buzz about who it could or couldn't be ... i wouldn't read anything into it. after going to comic con and seeing how dc released their info or released some mis information just to get people hysterical ... i dont believe what they say until it comes out.

especially since they said the reboot was going to open things up creatively but ... they just gave us cliff's notes horror versions of the same stuff we had before.

Same here... Love the creative team... hate the concept (would even hate it if it didn't replace the Legion.

Maybe one of them's Projectra and she's just disguising them.

Oh, one can only hope!

Over at Bleeding Cool they're speculating that the 'Flash' could be Don Allen, which would be... interesting (I've always wanted to see more of the tragic Don and Dawn Allen).

But in all other respects, yeah - this comic looks awful.

Heck, if this is supposed to be set in the year 3000, I'd expect at least two out of five of them to not even be humanoid!

Even the Green Lantern is a human(oid)? Wow. The new DCU still hasn't caught up to the late 80's, when Earth-bound Green Lanterns included Ch'p, Kilowogg and Salaak.

It's sad that we're about to regress from having characters like these:

Much less these:

ha!

I second that. It just looks really bad despite any feelings or critical analysis I might have. It looks like one of those knock off grocery store comics they used to put out ... random one shots in the 80s. Like a comic for really young kids or people not actually following comic books. (a coloring book or learn to draw book ... something really amateurish about it)

Justice League Beyond is existing ... and looks WAY BETTER.

can't and won't. DC is just going down in flames and fast.

Legion was the last comic i was actually collecting and now i'm done.

Darn, I was hoping for these guys.

That's not too far off. As it is, Archie comics sell better than DC so maybe DC is going for the Archie-buck with this one.

What is Laurel doing with her hand there? Giving Rond a pick me up by the look of it

A good twist can be if in the first issue The Fatal Five kill all the team (Like Earth 2 first issue), and The Legion take the place in the honor of them.

Here's the link to the Newsarama.com interview with Giffen and DeMatteis where Keith Giffen rips off the head of Legion fandom and pours bile down the esophagus.

According to Giffen, no Legionnaires, no Legion 31C locales: "they will not be going to Braal".

Oh, and this: "Sorry Legion fans, but you're going to have to wait until somebody comes up with a take on the Legion."

Remind me again why we Legion fans LIKE him?

I don't think we will see the Legion again until the copyrights start to expire. I'm expecting them and their entire world to fade into an "it was only a dream" sort of vapor in the final issue.

Personally I'm relieved that this book has nothing to do with the Legion. The only time I have liked Giffen being on anything Legion was his first run as artist. Outside of that, I've never been a fan.

Ditto. I'll be tickled pink if they never mention anything to do with the Legion.

I am starting to wonder why I like him.

Is it so hard to come up with a take on the Legion. Methinks NOT.

HELLO ... HAS ANYONE SEEN IMAGE LATELY????!?!?!?!?!

Some of the best books in the history of the comic book medium are being created there ... over .... and over ... again.



It's becoming clear the DC same old same old crew are Creatively and Morally BEREFT.


muh muh muah muah muah muh muuu "Sorry Legion fans, but you're going to have to wait until somebody comes up with a take on the Legion." muah muh mew meh muah moa ....


losers.

Here is your take KG. easy. done.

It seems to me the whole idea that one needs a "take" on the Legion is part of the problem.

Just write the freaking Legion. No trying to give some new spin or fancy interpretation of it. Then I'll be happy.

DC are clearly not interested in "takes" anyway.


JL and Bat all day long.

This actually sounds interesting. I've been distracted from comics lately and up for any stories that sound new. I also have fond memories of Batman Beyond's Justice League episodes, so this could be enjoyable.

Doesn't anyone see the irony of a man talking about doing a book called the Justice League and featuring 5 characters identical to Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman, Flash and Green Lantern defending his not using a Legionnaire because it wouldn't be new and would be treading old ground?!?

Pathetic.

Fine, I'll be the asshole here. LEGION is not SELLING, but Justice League IS (even though *I* recently dropped it). This move can't really be THAT big of a surprise to those of us who keep up with sales figures and DC's recent corporate policies. I'm afraid the days of Paul Levitz keeping DOOM PATROL alive as it fell less than 10,000 copies sold monthly because it was his daughter's favorite comic at the time are long gone (Yes that was a rumored THANG back in the day).

I'll miss LSH but it won't be coming back until a BIG NAME CREATOR wants to do so. You may define "big name creator" as you wish.

But... *prepares for tossed rotten tomatoes*... I'm almost certain I'll be checking out JL3K... I've never been disappointed by this creative team (with or without Maguire)... from Justice League to Metal Men to Booster Gold.

Since JL3K is apparently separate from LSH, I'm likely to enjoy it also. We'll see...

I guess the thing that kind of bothers me about Giffen's interview is the fact that his stated intention with Justice League 3000 is to have no crossover of characters and locations between it and the Legion universe even though both books are set in the same time period. Given that DC like to have everything fit together in one nice universe/time stream package, this either means that JL 3000 will take place in a separate universe from the Legion, or the Legion universe and continuity is being wiped out and Justice League 3000 will be the only legitimate 31st century heir of the current DC universe.

The possibility that the Legion's future may no longer exist is almost more chilling than a simple book cancellation. I think LSH #23 may be an important issue to read to see if there will ever be a future for the Legion or not. I guess this just makes me wish even more that Levitz would bring the Legion Lost team home before he wraps things up. If the Legion universe gets wiped out, I want the whole Legion together when it happens.

The JL beyond is a lot more diverse and interesting than this sad looking lot. Ooh, let's have some just like Wonder Woman but edgier! So more white males and a white female. Whoopee. Give me a gay transmuter in pink and white suit any day.

Lash has a great perspective, and I agree with much of it. But the character designs do nothing for me, and Giffen's dickishness really turns me off. I would be more interested if he were just ripping off Guardians of the Galaxy or the Legion. The Legion was the original future super team...of space! and it's offensive to just dismiss and ignore it when playing in the same sandbox. And given that DiDio HATED JL bwahaha, I wonder what the motive is to use this team, unless they have some compelling market research that tells them they are missing out on a huge 80s nostalgia humor market segment? I wish Marc and Kevin all success, and I may give the book a look, but Giffen's preference for burning bridges rather than building them leaves me frosty.

If I could have my DREAM JOB, it would totally be Giffen's PR guy-- he needs one desperately!!! Giff actually never needs to open his mouth without me filtering what comes out! LOL!!

SO, Mister Giffen, if you happen to come across this post, Yeah, I will totes make you relatable to the fans AND fetch your coffee!

I can be Lashies gopher while he's working.

I'll even dress up as the fat Blue Beetle.

Ditto.
Even if the writing is good and the art is good this is a horrible idea. Never did like those "superhero - future" books - kind of like elseworlds but without the characters you know, just the labels - and to dump the Legion to do it! yuck!yuck!yuck!

I agree, that's the harsh truth. Marvel is also doing about the same by launching a new Avengers title every other month. Publishing houses are out there to make money - and rightly so, of course.

But...

- If the Legion didn't sell was because its stories were crap. Since Levitz came back writing, I don't remember a single Legion story of his that I actually enjoyed, or that I found even just decently written. It's as simple as that.
Moreover, Francis Portela's aside, the art has also been meh, especially in the last year (I strongly believe Scott Kolins had to draw his episodes overnight or something). In my experience as a retailer, I also believe that changing the artist every month hurts sales *badly*.

- DC already publishes a book about futuristic clones of the JL and it doesn't seem to me like it's setting the chart on fire or anything. I understand that comic is off canon, but it's also based on a well-known and loved cartoon franchise. Still, DC is going to have on the stands TWO books about futuristic takes on the JL... isn't that a little too much? And so much for originality.

- DeMatteis, Giffen and Maguire are all solid pros (well, Giffen maybe not so much ), but I think the point of having them create a new series together is to appeal to those readers who are already familiar with those author's 25-years old JLI stint. I mean, how is that team supposed to appeal to new readers? And didn't DC already stop their line of JLI reprints cause it didn't sell?

Now that Superman is perceived as cool again and DC is also flooding the market with books about the Man of Steel, I think the Legion could easily benefit from that. Maybe a "Superman and the Legion" monthly, with Kal-El as a full-time member of the book's cast?

Anyway, since it looks like it won't have anything to do with the Legion, I think I'll also give JL 3000 a try. I really loved what DeMatteis, Giffen and Maguire did together in the past, and if DC's editors won't disturb those three too much I think they could deliver another nice read.

This isn't just a replacement for the Legion's book this is a replacement for the whole Legion purpose.

Set in 3000 it is therefore just before the New 52 Legion was founded so why would RJ Brande form a teenage Legion when the Justice League was around? A Teen Titans possibly but not a Legion.

Why would the Legion have stood alone against Darkseid in the Great Darkness, or the Fatal Five in the current storyline. How could Earth-Man have formed a Justice League of Earth?

I'm betting there is no Sodam Yat as the last Green Lantern. No EarthGov or United Planets in the world of JL3K.

Either JL3K is from a different universe or the Legion as we have known it for 55 years is dead.

Who says they're all white? You can't see Green Lantern at all and Batman might be light-skinned, but he could be latin, asian, african, etc... and any of them could certainly be gay.

The presence of JL3K doesn't make me feel any more pessimistic about the Legion's existence. The book's cancelled and is currently waiting for someone to come up with a way to make them relevant and exciting. That would be true in any case. The existance of JL3K doesn't change that in my mind because any new iteration could simply involve them or even be set in the 41st century.

To look at it "half glass full" having people buying a book about the 31st century could be a way to introduce the Legion in a new way in a book that's *actually selling well.* Regardless of what Giffen says, who's to say he's even going to be on the book a week from now the way DC is these days. Similar to how Marvel is calling almost any team "Avengers" maybe the Legion could benefit from being seen as a more direct outcropping of the JL.

You've actually partially answered your own questions...

Ever since Marvel started making it big with their movies based on comic characters, DC (and the current parent corporation there of) have been eying their success with envy.

The batman franchise is coming to something of a halt while Superman is revving up. It's immediate success and the constant in-house talk of a Justice League movie are pointing the bean-counters toward where they see the money to be.

So, everything at DC for the foreseeable future is going to be geared at marketing the upcoming movies and if the quality of the DCnU has to fall by the way to do this then so be it.

That's why the over emphasis of the JL titles.

As for the poor Legion, I've got to agree with the ideas already expressed: quality sells and crap doesn't.

A) Put someone on the book who wants and can write a decent story - clearly Giffen isn't the guy and Levitz just doesn't have it anymore.

B) There is an old truism in comics that bad art can ruin a good story (and that, ironically, good art can't save a bad story - for long). So, with that in mind, get a decent artist on the title. Stop pissing off people like Jiminez and Perez and let them work.

Bye Legion. Sleep well until the next time.

What I don't understand is - if you're going to make a futuristic comic with zero Legion connections, why set it in the 31st century? Why not just set it in the 40th century? Or the 100th century? Or the 853rd century or whatever?

Seems strange to me.

I like it. In a ideal world I wouldn't but the Legion book is struggling and I don't mind a shake up.

I also always wanted to see a few JL legacies in the Legion. A futuristic JL in the Legion setting? I am open to it.

I would've have rather had a Hawkgirl vs. Wonder Woman...but maybe she's a new god?

Remember how excited Giffen was a few months back in his interviews about coming back to the Legion and the "reboot on the run"...long term plans ... and then "poof" he was gone after one issue...

And how many other DC NU52 series have started out with an all star creative team only to crash and burn after 1-2 issues or no issues completed at all because editorial kept changing agreed upon plots and stories?

Yeeeeeaaahhh....

And kudos to Nightcrawler..he nailed it with his comment. Don't use the Legion characters because you want something new so instead use the standard JLA line-up.....

BLECH!

So, when are we all starting a "bring back the Legion" campaign?

How about a "get the Legion away from DC Comics" campaign?

Yes, Nightcrawler made an excellent point. He should have been the one asking the questions for that interview.

I can't help but think that Giffen loves the Legion like the Joker loves Batman; keeps getting drawn back to it, but look at the results. That's a bit extreme, he has shaken things up and written interesting stories, but he's sort of dangerous if you're a Legion character.

Giffen interview about Justice League 3000 at Comic Book Resources.

Blaming the fans cause the creators can't create a good, readable series doesn't fill me with confidence about his wanting to tell good stories as he mentions later in the interview. Seriously, this is such blatant political BS about an obvious money-grab by a company that has creators with bankrupted creativity. He can spin this crap all he wants, I won't be blinded by the hype and hope Justice League 3000 tanks badly.

Maybe massacring a bunch of Legionnaires wasn't resonating with the fan base and that's why the book got cancelled? Nope. Let's blame the fans. Classy!

Oh, that really makes me want to go out and get LJ3K. As if I didn't hate the concept already, this cinches it for me.

The book wasn't selling enough because it was being written shoddily, had no solid art direction after Portela departed, and was simply a BAD BOOK.

Write us a good LOSH book and we'll buy it! How about that? I know it's a radical idea, but it's something you might want to consider.

Ah yes, blame the fans. Always a good sign.

I'm just a passenger on this Legion of Super-Heroes flight. I paid my money and plunked my ass down in my seat. I never got up. I never jumped ship. I stayed through thick and thin.

And somehow it's *my* fault that the pilot flew us into the ground.

Nightcrawler, you're shooting the messenger. The writing was on the wall sales-wise a LONG time before Giffen came near LSH v7, which was the lowest-selling DCU Legion title EVER (I suspect Blacula might have been right in the sales thread, and Giffen quit because he found out the book was gone in August anyway). DC cut JLI with #12, and it outsold Legion by 10k. The REPRINT of JLA #1 outsold LSH. After the last purge, LSH was the sixth lowest-selling "New 52" title. Said purge killed eight titles.

DC's big mistake was letting Levitz do the "New 52" relaunch of the book and continue virtually unchanged, given that v6 already sold pretty poorly (it was outsold by Batgirl, a title whose lead character was written out of continuity in the reboot...) and it needed the fillip of new blood. Now, when the book was deep underwater (Marvel would have cut it around the year mark with those numbers) was too late.

That's a really good metaphor. Very apt.

I have spent probably thousands of dollars on DC products, I've given them free publicity by discussing their comics online, and I've been a loyal fan of theirs for twenty years. I care much more about the Legion than DC's executives do. I deserve better than this callous, insensitive treatment.

I wish that there was some way we actually *could* liberate the Legion from DC's control, like Fat Cramer suggests.

I read the interview again. Although I agree with him that the Legion was cancelled because of low sales, and not just because they wanted to launch Justice League 3000... the way he said it doesn't make me want to listen to what he has to say.

"Maybe the fans should have bought the book" is a terrible statement. However he meant it, it's disrespectful, whiny and unnecessarily sarcastic.



So much for all the silver linings we've been hoping for. This really sounds like no Legionnaires will be returning at all!

I read the interview again. Although I agree with him that the Legion was cancelled because of low sales, and not just because they wanted to launch Justice League 3000... the way he said it doesn't make me want to listen to what he has to say.

And we wonder why you have so many posts each month. [There weren't even any posts between these!]

Yeah, but again, I'd rather they not mess with the Legion, so that someone who can write it well doesn't have yet more baggage to deal with should he or she get the chance.

Not that it wouldn't be a reboot I suppose. But still, better to leave then out than screw them up.

I agree with the thoughts expressed above.

Publishing a poorly written book with terrible art and then blaming the fans because they weren't buying enough copies is as tacky a statement as I've heard in quite some time.

What an A-hole!

And, as for DC placing JL3000 oh-so-coincidentally during the same time period as the Legion? Come on, DC. This is a slap in the face of the Legion fans and everyone knows it.

There's a chance they may bring back the "alternate future timelines" concept.

I was overcome by emotion But I've gone back and consolidated those posts - you're right, that's what the edit buttons are for

Many of us, particularly long time readers, I think were raised on comics with a particular attention to continuity within a comic story, title, and between many titles. The idea of continuity has since gone out the window in DC comics, so the thought that a Justice League existing in the same century of our beloved Legion with all the contradictions that would create should not be a big concern (although I admit it totally irks me). We just witnessed the Fatal Five (or Four), the most reoccurring foe the Legion has faced, be retconned into forming for the first time for no apparent good reason and continuity thrown to the winds. If JL3000 is a hit, it will own DC's 31st century, and maybe we Legion fans will be thrown a bone with a one panel flyover shot of all the Legionnaires so the character trademarks will be sustained for another year. If JL3000 doesn't take off, it will be just another 31st century discontinuity blip that will disappear off the memory radar soon enough.

Like many Hawkmen.

Many many Hawkmen.

Crisis on Infinite Hawkmen!

Starring The Legion of Substitute Hawkmen, the Teen Hawks and the Justice League of Thanagar!

Seriously, tho', what does pique my curiosity about this Justice League 3000 notion is how the Young Avengers, over at That Other Company (TM) managed to create a team of legacy Avengers that were kind of deliberate red herrings.

The Iron Man legacy? Kang the Conqueror. The Thor legacy? Not an Asgardian, not related to Thor, even tangentially, instead the son of the Scarlet Witch. The Hulk legacy? No gamma here, just the son of Captain Mar-Vell and a Skrull. The Patriot? Kinda sorta related to *a* Captain America, but not the one that was an Avenger, and not, initially, powered via a super-soldier formula.

I'd find it very interesting if DC had the creative gumption to also throw us a curve, and have the Batman legacy not be related to the Wayne family, but perhaps be connected to Man-Bat, or be a vampire or something, and the Superman legacy not be a Kryptonian or even super-powered, and instead be a descendent of John Henry Irons / Steel, and a rich dude with a 30th century upgrade of his famous ancestors armor, and that's only the mildest sort of curve, having the 'legacies' still be legacies of supporting characters or others in the primary characters own orbit (instead of going as far as Young Avengers did and having the Iron Man, Hulk and Thor 'legacies' be tied to completely different Avengers, or even, in Iron Lad's case, an Avengers *villain!*).

For example, a 30th century 'Flash legacy' that is actually descended from Doctor Light (Kimiyo, not Arthur, although Arthur might be even *more* intriguing...), and has the power to transform into light or generate blinding flashes of light, could be a radical and welcome departure from just another red-suited Speed Force dude.

A funky sort of 'reverse legacy' could be the Greek goddess of archery, Artemis, having been inspired by the Amazon champion who shared her Roman name of Diana, coming to earth to serve as a hero. That would be one hell of a legacy, for Wonder Woman to *inspire the goddess she was named after* to come and take up her mission in 'man's world' centuries later...

Marvel has already done some pretty awesome stuff with a legacy team, in the aforementioned Young Avengers, so I'm interested in seeing if DC has something clever in the tank as well.

If it's all just some lame uncreative 'Kryptonian-powered Superman legacy' and 'rich dude with gadgets Batman legacy,' then yeah, I'm not going to even bother reading issue 2 on the shelves, let alone shell out four bucks for it.

You may have been joking but at some point they really should make hay out of the continuity disaster of the Hawks.

Hawk-peeps get no love. Tru fax.

A hawk-person on the League probably needs something else to keep up than 'flier with a mace.' Perhaps a hawk-archer, using nth metal arrows and a 'gravity bow' that breaks down into two curved nth metal blades for close combat? Something else else to add some zing.

I think a Hawk-person would have to explore the other applications of nth metal to truly keep up with the League. Batman is already the default "gadget" person. I'm reminded of the JL Animated Hawkgirl, who had trouble being taken seriously by most of my peers at first until she began blowing up really big stuff with her mace.

I thought they had done a decent job of straightening it out in the Justice Society book, but of course, being DC, they had to go and mess it up all over again with the new 52 version.

I wonder if that mace will make it into the new series. Probably considered an "ancient device" by then 31st century.

Is there a short version of how they cleared it up in JSA?

Carter Hall's wikipedia entry gives a fairly good summary of how they reconciled the various elements (nth metal and the Thanagar link, membership in both JSA and JLA) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawkman_(Carter_Hall)

Man, I hope DC doesn't do 3000 covers for this!

At their current batting average, they'd be sure to have at least three good ones!

the Hermit:



Even before the New 52, they re-screwed it up in a "Strange Adventures" mini-series.

Hawkman's confusing backstory pains me a little, because I love the idea of ancient Egyptian backstory (Dr. Fate and Black Adam's Egyptian roots, for example, being more of an afterthought, most of the time), and yet I *also* love the idea of an alien space cop backstory.

Mixing the two of them together, in a Stargate-esque fashion, where aliens had some interaction with ancient Egypt, is the ideal solution, and yet it always seems to get bogged down with modern day questions about how the current Hawk-peeps interact with present-day Thanagar. Did they reincarnate here on Earth, as humans? Did they reincarnate on Thanagar, and return to Earth, where they were originally fated to re-unite? Do they have nothing to do with ancient Egypt? Nothing to do with Thanagar? Every writer seems to have their own notion.

And too many new writers seems to have their own desire to blow up Thanagar / Tamaran / Rann / etc. A rare few writers like to *create* exciting new worlds, like the Vegan system or Mogu, or new lands, like Atlantis or Feithera, but for every one of them, there are three more waiting in the wings to blow **** up and add nothing new to the DC universe like jealous siblings petulantly stomping all over their elder siblings sand castles.

Sadly, including Titan. And the Spectre blew up Atlantis before Flashpoint happened. And remember when San Diego sank? Oh, and New Krypton blew up too.

Wow, they're on a roll here.

It's like they're trying to compete with movies.

Marvel's only doing marginally better. Genosha's been blown up, the Savage Land destroyed at least once, Asgard kicked out of it's home dimension and *then* blowed up, etc. I'm not even sure what the current state of Olympia (Eternal home city) or Attilan (Inhuman home city) is, but they've all taken hits.

I *love* characters that come with their own built-in 'universe,' such as Asgard or Atlantis or Themiscrya or Thanagar or the United Planets, so it bugs me when writers just trash them, or take the characters out of them and try to 'ground them' by putting them in New York and stripping away their personal mythology and supporting characters.

Here's a thought for the next writer to tackle such a character. Don't want to deal with Amazons and whatnot? Howabout *not* turning Diana into a powerless secret agent / spy, and actually write a story about an original character who is a secret agent / spy, and leave Wonder Woman the hell alone?

Ditto the Legion. Don't want to deal with the 31st century or the Academy or Titan or Flight Rings? Don't kidnap a bunch of Legionnaires to another time and place and make their tech stop working. Just don't ****ing write the Legion. Seems simple enough.

With a few notable exceptions no one has been.

For about ten years now

Sadly

Legion Lost was OK for a short story arc, but I agree that I'd have hated for it to become a permanent ongoing. Stories like that should always end with the Legionnaires going home.

A story that removes a small group from the standard team and surroundings seems like an amazing opportunity to really explore and develop those characters, and give them the sort of spotlight that it would be harder to shine on them individually, as part of a 20 or 30 person team.

And yet, that opportunity never really came to anything, thanks to the crossover Teen Titans / Ravagers / Culling nonsense.

I think Fabian had the best intentions, but wasn't allowed to really develop on them.

it certainly started out as a fairly promising story, that's for sure. And since there were only 7 of them, they each got quite a bit of development. Too little, though. Sigh. If only they'd been kept out of all the crossovers...

I've created a petition to bring the Legion back on Change.org.

I've also registered www.longlivethelegion.com and www.justiceleague3000.com. Now, I need to figure out what I want to do with them...I may just redirect them to that page for now.

Hey, nice. At least you beat them to that name.

Signing the petition right now!

If that title becomes a worthwhile property they'll yank the domain name from you.

In the meantime though, while you'll probably get some traffic, I'm not sure what's the point of having people who like the new JL enough to type in its title into the url line to see what comes up only to find a site they probably don't agree with?

But longlivethelegion.com is a good one to have, either directing to the petition or legion world itself.

Still gives me chills anytime the Legionnaires yell, "Long Live the Legion!"

The LMB did that too, in the Dark Oval novella. Ah, warms the heart.

I hear you. I got the same reaction when they did it on Smallville.

Like they took away www.legionofsuper-heroes.com from me?!?

Anyway, I'll figure out what I want to do with them eventually.

It's funny because it is true.

Um... yeah. Probably exactly like that.

Sorry, didn't know you'd already been through it. I'm still a young'un around here.

DC is pulling out all the stops sending the JL3K creators on publicity interviews.

http://www.comicvine.com/articles/interview-j-m-dematteis-and-keith-giffen-talk-just/1100-146800/

So now Mr. Giffen has promised no time travel, no clones, no descendants.

And that he is lying.

And the "Fatal Five" will appear in JLA3K, but not that Fatal Five.

Link the JL3K domain name to Roto-Rooter...?

As I mentioned earlier, there were some intriguing possibilities that they might do something cool, like with the Young Avengers, pitching a curve.

The more of these interviews I read, the less likely I think that will be.

I thought these interviews were supposed to make me *want* to read the book, and not be full of stuff about what the book *isn't* going to be about? This is sounding more like a political campaign, all about lowering expectations and promising that it won't be as bad as the other choice...

See, I am taking it as they have something cool planned, but beuing forced to do all these interviews...and really don't want to spoil whatever it is they are planning. Just my opinion though.

The Fatal Five, but not "that" Fatal Five. Huh. With DC's move towards becoming more JLA-centric, this Fatal Five will probably be a future version of the Crime Syndicate of America. Good Justice League vs. evil Justice League.

A JLA-ish 'Fatal Five' could possibly be a super-villain team-up of five foes that were capable of challenging the League single-handedly. Sort of a 'worst of the worst.'

Amazo, Starro, Despero, etc.

Yuck

Looks to me like more of the same stuff I already stopped buying.

That costume design makes it look like Superman has an eight-pack where us mere mortals would be happy to only have a six-pack (instead of the more typical 'one-pack').

Unless the League is destroyed by the end of the first issue and it's the Legion in the Second, I won't be getting this. Eff the league, they've sucked for a long while now.

I agree.

This has vacuum-like properties (sucks) written all over it.

Not only will I not but this title, I'm generally thinking of boycotting Giffen all together.

Eff the League; Long Live the Legion!

So we have a skinhead Supes and a Wonder Woman whose lasso looks more like a grappling hook.

And that gate looks a lot like DNA's threshold tech.

And don't let Batman bite you! Maybe this one's a vampire.

JL3000 = angry people.

The creators are awfully coy in their interviews; I suppose it's to generate mystery and intrigue, but I find it off-putting.

The best way that Legion fans can express their discontent is to NOT BUY JL3000!

If asked, on any poll, board or social media variant, tell them why.

It's really just that simple.

there is no way in this world i am reading or more importantly buying JLA 3000 because its my money and i will spend it where i like and i really do not want to spend my money on an x-men wanna be comic.sorry.

This is part of Blacula's post from the DC runs off George Perez! thread.



If Keith Giffen has already quit the Legion & Superman because of editorial interference, how is it going to be any different with Justice League MST3K?

I think I'm close to canceling all my subs at my local comic book store except for World's Finest & maybe Earth 2 after the last issue of LSH.

re: Nightcrawler's pic on page 13:

Why does Superman 3000 have an "H" on his chest? (Hope?)

And why does Wonder Woman 3000 have nothing on her chest?

They look scary.

Maybe it's a number 8, because he's the eighth clone of Superguy?



You made me look.

Re: WW 3000

I assume that comic book artists, being artists, are at least marginally familiar with human anatomy and physiology.

I assume that they are also familiar with what will attract the attention of 14-year-old boys.

Still, I feel obligated to point out that Wonder Woman 3000 is, anatomically speaking, a highly improbable construction.

My late wife was 4’10” with a 38” bust, but she was nowhere near the proportions of WW3K.

In addition, WW3K is depicted as absurdly muscular—possessing even muscles not found in ordinary human physiology.

Well-developed pectorals actually tend to [i]reduce[/] the size of the bust, by compressing the fatty tissues.

(Sorry, ladies: those ‘we must increase out bust’ exercises which you did in Junior High, while encouraging perkiness, were probably actually reducing your overall cup size.)

Wonder Woman 3000 must be carrying literally a hundred pounds of fatty tissue on her chest. The Wonder is that she can stand up straight. (Super-powerful Achilles’ tendons? Super-heavy ankles?)

Like I said ... at least she has pants.

If Paul Levitz had submitted a proposal to create a 31st century descendant of Superman for membership in the Legion would TPTB @ DC have given it the OK?

Why does Flash keep his nose and mouth covered? You'd think he'd need to breathe while he's running all over town at light speed.

Is Superman mad, or is he wincing in pain because he flew through a kryptonite cloud?

Ever tried to breathe while facing into a gale force wind?

You know what could really make that awesome would be for the character to not even know he was related to Superman at first and be an evolutionary throwback ... the first descendant in ages to actually have super powers.

I really like that idea. Wish there was a Legion book to make it happen!

Still wishing that Rond Vidar hadn't been killed in Lo3W. He would have made an awesome Green Lantern as a legionnaire to be a tie-in with the present day GL mythos. Maybe such a tie-in character would have saved Legion from the chopping block with current DC editorial.

None of the other Flashes have ever had to keep their noses and mouths covered - Barry and Wally's costumes even had ONLY the nose and mouth bare. Stylistic element only then?

Maybe this new Flash can't tap into the Speed Force, and actually needs the scarf? (And the goggles! And some sorta hella efficient frictionless padding for his thighs and pits to prevent spontaneous combustion...)

He might as well use some deodorant while he's at it!

Re Speed Force connection, I wonder how exactly it works to protect speedsters? I always thought that the original Flash had the mask to keep his identity secret, but left the nose and mouth uncovered so he could breathe more easily.

I imagine it would have to surround them with a mostly frictionless aura, so that accelerating into simple air wouldn't be like slamming into a brick wall at the speeds they travel (and that, most of the time, accelerating to thousands of miles per hour would neither cause them to burst into flames from the friction, or cause a shockwave of displaced air that would blow out every window and kill every person within a block).

It's mostly comic-book magic, 'though, since DC speedsters seem to be able to generate friction (or incredible winds with their movement, even spinning to create tornadoes that don't affect them) when they want, and none at all, at other times, as well as selectively taking advantage of or ignoring other effects of high speed, and surviving the occasional super-speed tumble which would leave a normal person as six or more unrecognizable lumps of meat spread over a half-mile crimson streak.

Marvel usually 'explains' such things by transferring energy to and from other dimensions. I suppose the Speed Force must work similarly, transferring the hydrogen bomb's worth of kinetic energy the Flash is carrying when he's trucking along at many multiples of the speed of sound into another dimension when he suddenly stops cold, with no catastrophic Hiroshima-like effects on himself, his environment or anyone standing nearby.

And thankfully, said aura extends to people they carry. Or else...!

OK folks... this didn't last nearly as long as we predicted...

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/08...eworks-justice-league-3000-from-scratch/

Bwahahahahahahahahaha*

No surprise here. We knew editorial would screw this up from the get-go and someone would either be fired or walk. I feel bad for anyone excited for this creative team being back together, even though I think most of us, even the optimistic ones, knew this was a train wreck waiting to happen.

*he said, ironically.

I bet DC has been reading the fanfic here on Legion World and they're hiring some of our writers and giving them hands-off freedom.

If not, they should be.

Kevin Maguire was the only reason I was going to check out the first issue.

Wow. Seriously, WOW.

DC editorial/corporate has been meddling with the creators since the beginning of the new 52 (and likely before that), but this has got to be a new low.

Who had Zero on the cancelation pool?

Well, it's not cancelled. It's being re-tooled. And Didio seems like just the tool to do that.

This is awful news - not that I was planning on buying it but rather for Maguire fans, for his bank balance and faith in DC as an employer I imagine, and most of all for the industry. This is not good to hear.

I'm unsure of the business model they are currently employing in DC comics right now as I've never heard of one that involves destroying successful franchises, losing fan loyalty, harming their own staff's careers and generally looking like unprofessional idiots.

Is it some new fangled super secret plan that will reap huge rewards in the long term?

No? Didn't think so.

Seems that DC's underlying philosophy since New52 is that editors always know better than those lazy, vain creatives, and we're going to teach them a lesson once and for all. I was surprised JL3000 even got to the hype phase, mainly because we know DiDio hated the bwahaha JL era. And who fires Kevin Maguire? Finally, I won't let my hopes be raised for a moment that the reworking will produce a product more appealing to Legion fans. Probably will be even worse--something low quality that spits on the Legion's grave, rather than something high quality that does the same.

I was looking forward to the team being together and seeing what could happen.

Oh well.

I don't know why any creative bothers to sign up for a DC book these days, especially one that involves Justice League or Batman. You'll never be able to tell the stories you want because if you're not being forced to shoehorn in a crossover or special event, editorial will find some other way to micromanage.

Is it the editors or is it other higher ups @ DC? I think it goes all the way up to the top. Look at all V-Ps listed on the back title page.

I found this link on Facebook. Has DC done something stupid today?

So JL3000 is getting an overhaul even before it hits the news stands! It serves DC right to have this replacement to the Legion bomb before it even gets off the ground!

I suspect higher up management is to blame with people like Didiot sucking up to cover his own ass. The way DC is run now just wreaks of too much marketing influence and micromanagement. I'm sure if someone did some research on some of the upper management they'd find the bloody entrails left behind from their previous jobs. Been through this way too many times.

"All Golgafrincham marketing people, please proceed to Ark B."

At least we get Kevin Maguire's art for the last Legion issue. I hope it's a good swan song!

This is hilarious. How this burning bus keeps on the road is beyond me.

A company in another industry with this much bad press would be a laughing stock not one of monopolists.

DC sure is making it hard to keep caring about the company. All signs point to a destructive work environment and an erosion of whatever values the company once had.

Like I have previously said, I will not be collecting anything from DC once Legion is done. I'm done with their DCNU.

It is not a business model. It is a management strategy. I believe it is called "Set Your Elephant On Fire".

You could look it up.

It can be a very effective management tool, but it can also be a disaster if used incorrectly.

Interesting, but what's the elephant at DC that they're trying to set ablaze? Declining comic book sales? Old properties that can't be rejuvenated?

I wasn't going to buy this book just because of what happened to the Legion.
But, I was tempted by Maguires art...if it had looked really, really good I might have broken down and picked it up or downloaded a digital book.

Now.....not a chance.

http://www.newsarama.com/18636-howa...000-artist-debut-bumped-to-december.html

The faster this thing tanks, the sooner the powers that be at DC will realize that they need to bring back the Legion. Even at it's worst, it lasted 23 issues into the DCnU.

Makes perfect sense!

Not holding my breath, though.

Giffen comes across as such a company man sometimes. It's distressing for someone who likes his work so much.

Giffen has really started to come across as an asshole in the last few months.

Maguire posted on Bleeding Cool:

Yea. Enough to make me rethink all Giffen DC stuff going forward, as much as that shocks me to say. Hard to focus on a series when I think the writer is acting like an asshole.

And just what DC: another grim and gritty book. Yikes.

Wow, no matter how this decision came to pass, by no way am I going to buy a book drawn by Porter. No matter what a nice guy he might be, his artwork was not my cup of tea even in his JLA days, and after his accident, tragic as it was, has detoriated.

Now with Maguire gone, there's reasion to buy the book anyway. Though I also was surprised to see him on the book in the beginning, considering that the "BWAHAHA" era is so long gone...

What perplexes me is that, when the DCnU started, one of the things that DC said that they were trying to do was to make their books "lighter". The stories were (more or less) issue contained and not bound by a lot of continuity and not as "grim" as they had become.

Now, two years later and DC is going back to grim and gritty and I defy anyone to keep up with Trinity War if you're not following all three JLA titles.

Just... ugh.

Dark & gritty!?

The thing which made the Legion's future great was optimism, not that I expect JL3000 to show us the Legion's version of the future.

I was already a bit sour on Giffen for leaving the Legion title after drawing one issue (getting my hopes up and then dashing them, haha)... even though his quote about Porter sounds like it was generated by the corporate quote-maker machine, and even though Giffen probably did not have a lot of say in it, man, does it sound cold as ice. No mention of well wishes to Maguire. (And, frankly, Maguire's note about the opportunity to work on a high-profile book again, his first since the 80s, made this even more sad.)

For a company that claims it is making books aimed at 45 year-olds (see the recent story on Paul Pope and what Didio told him), they sure know how to alienate those same 45 year-olds thoroughly.

Just... ugh.

It wouldn't surprise me if Giffen was just badly edited for that quote.

But yeah, just when you think this couldn't get any more ludicrous...

To be honest, I'm not sure that I want the Legion back if DC is going through so much internal turmoil. Yes, I'm hoping JL3K tanks just because it's replacing the Legion and is a really stupid concept. Yet, I don't want the Legion brought back in this current environment because it would be doomed by corporate control as well. Let's give the Legion a rest for a couple of years, and maybe things will change at DC...or maybe not!

We know that for sometime DC has been trying to expand their target audience: attempting to market more aggressively to 18-to-35-year-old consumers (a highly desirable demographic), without alienating their historic base: 40-to-70-year-old geeks.

With the “New 52”, they may have just decided to incinerate the geeks. Look how many old-timers on these boards are just saying, “No more DC for me.”

Myself included.

And by the way: It’s Working!

You do realize you spell Gates' homeworld as "Vyraga" on there?

That's only how it's spelled in the inaccurate captions.

Oh. Yeah.

This.

Looks like Supes3K is letting his hair grow out. And that's a nasty scar on his forehead.

Well, at least this version of Flash has the problem of how to keep bugs from flying into his nose solved.

He looks petrified though.

My $3.99 is safe.

I think I'd get more satisfaction from a bag of Doritos anyway.

At least they'd last longer.

Giffen on his preferred artist:
"Kevin, more than any other artist that Marc and I have worked with, gets it." and "But it always feels like something is kind of missing without Kevin on board."

So quite the volte face when Maguire is unceremoniously dumped.

Giffen on pushing boundaries:
"There's a comfort zone there that's incredible."
Working within the comfort zone and mentioning Bwah ha ha in the same paragraph is not a good sign.

DeMatteis on bwah ha ha
"This is us doing what we've always done"
I wonder who got cold feet so late on that the rug was pulled under the whole idea of Bwah ha ha JLA3000.

I do have some sympathy with the creative team. Those quotes are based on pre launch excitement and lots of green lights having been given. The book is also trying to capture that '80s spirit. Then the rug is pulled, leaving it all looking uncomfortable and awkward.

I'm sure Giffen is only too well aware of what a clown he comes across as now that he has to gush over Porter. Not that he wasn't paying Porter compliments in the designs, but it's clearly going to be a very different book.

They wouldn't look so pathetic if DC had actually followed through with the concept they gave the go ahead for. But then,they might have had legitimate issues with what they had seen form the team.

It's already been posted that the '80s Justice League was a good book. For the first arc. then it went downhill in steps. It only really worked during the times they had strong artists on the book like Maguire and Hughes. The first arc mixed humour with strong plots. Once the plots started being more humour than action/adventure it started flagging.


Giffen on the Legion part of things
"But this isn't the Legion. And it shouldn't be judged on Legion of Super-Heroes terms. Sorry Legion fans, but you're going to have to wait until somebody comes up with a take on the Legion."

I am deliriously happy that the Legion isn't involved in this. Keeping it safe on Earth-2 will seem inspired somewhere down the road. That isn't a slight against the creative team on this. I just agree that it's good that they are kept separate. The Legion will be back at some point. It was painful enough watching the continuity twists without seeing how they remove the JLA from it.

It's a pretty disappointing place to be, where I'm not going to support a new book because of things that have happened before it's even launched. My lack of support is nothing to do with how good the book actually is.

But it's my money so I do feel entitled to vote with my wallet over this. Fortunately, Before Watchmen and the utter lack of quality in the DCNu makes it much easier.

Levitz/Giffen Interview

Since they've just gone to great lengths explaining that there is (thankfully) no link between this book and the Legion, then of course I'll approach it with an open mind.

- A drastic change of approach
- necessitating a change in artist
- breaking up the creative team that was the main draw for the book.
- Giffen's brown nosing to pretend it was all OK.
- Yet another JLA clone that was tiresome back in the Elseworlds days.

There. Not even mentioning Giffen jumping ship on the Legion.



Generally, it's 7 people, with similar powers, putting on tights and naming themselves. That seems to work pretty much everywhere.

Here, it seems like a combination of the team that would form the core of Morrison's Global Guardians where they had a lie to hide the dark truth.

Added to that there is some genetic experimentation/cloning/ organ harvesting.

We'll see. Well, other people will see and I'll read the hyped up version on one of the comics news sites.

no. I'm not doing it. tuff crap Giffster.

Actually I'm glad to hear that the Legion does not exist in the future of the DCFU. In fact, I would not want anything I cared about to be associated with the DCFU. At this point I'm willing to be patient and find something else to read while waiting for the entire DCFU to crash and burn (which inevitably will happen eventually).

And no, I'm not, like some posters, going over to the Marvel universe either. They lost me back in the 80s when they crassly flooded the market with X-clones for no other reason than to squeeze the independents out of business.

Instead, I am simply going to find quality books to read, regardless of who publishes them. I know they're out there.

...and Shikari took the Hermit by the hand. Together they would venture forth into the void. There, they would discover new worlds, with new comics. Comics of quality...

To give credit where credit's due, the b&w pages look amazing! Taking the series on its own merits, I'd be tempted to pick up the first story arc at least IF it weren't for Giffen's quote about how this is gonna be the darkest place he's gone. Kind of over grimdark superheroes by now, think I'll just stick with Mighty Avengers

When I saw the art I though Gazelle was going to be a member of the new team.

IDW, Dark Horse, Boom and Image are currently publishing a ton of good comics. Just off the top of my head I would recommend Chew, Morning Glories, Lazarus, Saga, Six-Gun Gorilla, My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, Sex Criminals, The Manhattan Projects, Invincible, Super Dinosaur, Savage Dragon, and Fatale.

A lot of comics that would have been published by DC at one point are now being published by Image or Dark Horse instead, because DC has become such a toxic work environment that top creators are taking their work elsewhere. Saga is a good example of that.

Do reading tastes get more diverse than



I'm catching up with Chew, Atomic Robo, Chin Music, Strangers, Invincible and Powers Bureau from the last few months. I have little older piles including Fatale and Manhatten Projects too.

Why can't DC do this with Justice League?

Oh, wait, that's them on the phone right now.

Every issue of Groo is a number 1



Every issue is a great jumping on point
Every issue is a great new start for the cast
Every issue brings funds to the creative team
Every issue has the same joke, so you won't feel left out.
Every-one should try Groo!

The blurb for issue 2

"Before the team can figure out what happened to their memories, Cadmus sends some seemingly familiar faces into the darkness of Commonwealth space to face off against the first member of a new group of villains called LOCUS!"

So, it looks like clones then, although the creative team said there would be a twist. Going by the cover, could the Legion world be Talok?

I see the UP has been replaced by the Commonwealth.

Issue 2 cover

Talok would also fit with the memory loss idea.

I actually like the term "Commonwealth" for the local space alliance/empire/whatevs.

Oh yes. So it would. I forgot that, but I can pretend it's was wiped form me on purpose by Lady Memory

As for the Commonwealth, is it an extension of empire for example or is it about to crumble with a number of competing, squabbling nations? lots of storytelling opportunities. But then, there was in the UP too.

Won't be getting it. 3000 belongs to the legion.

I'll not be picking it up for a few reasons, but if I see it mentioned on a news site I'll porbably read the story, if only to roll my eyes or look for the phrase "low sales"

I've got to wonder about the folks at DC.

OK, so now that DC Comics has become a part of DC Entertainment, the whole scope has changed. I get that.

Being a corporate entity, DCE is dedicated to making money (short version) and, flawed logic that it might be, they are disinclined toward anything that isn't tied into either the TV or film franchises (in a non-ending effort to gain the same sort of profit that Marvel got from their films). I get this too.

But, when they decided to cancel the Legion and to give us JLA3K, I have to wonder who they thought that the reader/audience might be?

The Legion fans? Not a chance. If anything, we're predisposed to hate it.

The Justice League fans? Possibly, but they weren't reading the Legion (not enough so, at any rate) before so why would they do so now?

Fans of Kevin Maguire? Nope. Not gonna happen.

Fans of Giffen? Possibly, but considering what he did to the Legion recently I can't see this as viable.

So, assuming that any rational thought was put into this at all, again, I'd love to know what that thought process might be?

After all, I could use a good laugh.

Thanks for letting me share. Long live the Legion!

I think you pretty much have it.

Focus on core characters.

Provide variants of those characters to pick up fans of their other versions.

Justice League Beyond looked decent and there was the comic based on the computer game to provide grim and gritty which is what this title is supposed to be.

Get buddy of DiDio to help write/plot it.

I will say I wasn't predisposed to disliking it. I'm just very disappointed in the decisions they made when launching it. Therefore I'm not buying it on that basis.

It could have been a lot worse. They could have slaughtered the Levitz Legion. They could have kept them, but turned it into the grim and extra gritty format that this title will have with the JLA clones in the mix. They've at least allowed it to have it's hiatus in a complete form.

You do have a point there. Perhaps it's a blessing in disguise after all that they decided to shelve the Legion rather than remake it into the "Grim and Gritty" Justice League's image.

Save that for Legion: The Next Generation....

Wait! Don't get any ideas, DC!

With the exception of a Sandman comic (that I've not read yet) I'm no longer getting any DC comics. That's down to the quality for me.

I've absolutely no faith that a revamped Legion would be the one comic that stood out above all of the others. So for now, I'm happy it's intact. So credit where it's due to DC for at least doing that.

This is what I do not understand.

Legion is designed for a video game. A ton of diverse characters, both heroes and villains, ranging in power sets from Duo Damsel and Ethel Eyeful to Mon-El and the Time Trapper. Graphically interesting power displays, from Lighting Lad to Timber Wolf. A massive, mutable history. Dozens of fascinating storylnes. Innumberable interesting locations. Alternate universes and characters are available. Classic, 5YL, Re-boot, Three-boot, Retroboot, four separate TV incarnations. Imaginary worlds. Maybe even that oft-referenced but never seen world where the counterparts of each character is some sort of gorilla.

My grandkids have become interested in Wizard 101 and Pirate 101 in the last year. These are very kid-accessible, low-CPU online games. Great introductory games for K-3; on a level with Pajama Sam or Star Tropics. I could see a Legion Academy game in a similar fashion. Imagine choosing one power set then leveling up… until you have Color Kid at Kryptonian power levels.

Or, go dark like the JLA MMORPG. Whatever.

I just don’t see why Legion has not crept out more into other media.

And there is still a Legion in the DCFU. In Action Comics v. ? #6, they saved Superman from the "Anti-Superman Army" of the near future (Clay Ramsay,the Kryptonite Man; Dr. Xa-Du; Erik Drekken; Metalek; Nimrod The Hunter; Superdoom; Susie Tompkins; Vyndktvx; probably others)

It's the Legion, but not as we know it.

I’m sticking with Batman Beyond for my Justice League of the future. A pretty cool book and characters. Far more interesting than this.

Hah! I've been out of the loop for a few months and had totally forgotten about JL3000.

I too thought that the legion was very kid friendly. There's no reason why a kids version couldn't be bright, optimistic and full of fun. Loads of toy potential, easily recognisable characters and a large enough cast that every kid should find someone to relate to in it.

A lot of the toys even have multiple versions sun boy, lightning lad/ lass, timberwolf etc.

practically any level of science fiction works well with the Legion. Considering the advancements of places like Orando etc. practically any setting can be used.

I guess it's all eggs in the one JLA clone basket for DC.

I guess it's not much different than Marvel and their Avengers and X-Titles. There's more of them than JL-titles by far.

Does Justice League Dark actually call themselves that?

Gee, I just noticed this title has yet to come out. Ha!

Has there been any more mention of whether or not that's Wally as the Flash? Honestly, that would be the only reason I'd pick up this book, just to see how they would handle Wally......although judging by prior deeds, I'd be getting my hopes up too high yet again.

I didn't get more than a few issues into JLA Dark before giving up. I don't think they had got as far as forming a team by that point, let alone giving themselves a name. Nothing wrong with taking time to bring things together. But my memory is telling me it was glacial.

JLA 3000 is delayed then as a result of the new grim n gritty approach? It does seem like quite a while since it's first mention.

So is one thought that they are all clones from the 21st century. Clones that give themselves the identities of Titans? Grayson, Troy & West, Rayner and Gand. Lar Gand

I noticed a hint that Booster Gold may be going grim n gritty, if it's relaunched. It doesn't seem that long ago that we were being told that Infinite Crisis would get away form all of that.