Preview's up.....

That was painful to read.

I think the word I'm looking for is "obnoxious".

I skipped the first issue, and I'll definitely skip this one.

Wow. Did they really need to devote 2 pages to show the League teleporting to that planet?

I can't stand this Superman.

Wonder Woman not caring about the rules of engagement? Oh, for the days when Diana was a smart warrior princess! When Flash is the one telling you to stop and think...

Lantern doesn't have a ring? So his powers are internalized? Hmmm.

Brain-damaged children in adult bodies. Superman, definitely. Wonder Woman, possibly. Flash, Lantern and Batman at least seem to have come out of it pretty decently. At least there's an in-story explanation for why they're acting that way, and it's not just because they want to make the League "edgy".

And they seem to be taking to their "regeneration" quite well.

I still don't feel like reading it though I do want to know who these "Five" are. But frankly the preview doesn't do a good job of building the "Five" up as a threat!

People bought Justice League 3000? I thought that was an urban legend like Slenderman and the Dewey Decimal System.

That was even more dreck than the usual New52 dreck.

As Ibby said, two pages to set up a stargate rip-off and walk through it.

Superman's eyes remind me of the cocaine addicted Hitler/Dynaman from Robinson's Golden Age. A very un-hero like comment when coming through the gate from Superman. He looks positively demented on page 4. Brain damaged children in adults bodies indeed.

If the Flash is worried about throwing up into his mask, couldn't he just take the mask down? Perhaps he has very embarrassing facial hair?

"Why bother with ships when you can transverse form star to star in an instant. Except they didn't. They had to wait for the ship to get to the world and set up a Stargate to get them there.

Wonder Woman is a poor person's Titania here. Titania had a goal. Wonder Woman just wants violence for the sake of it.

In summary it's taken them five pages to appear on a planet, fail to interact with it in the slightest, and use it to leave for another one. It's a bit slow isn't it?

I just read one of Giffen's Legion issues and there were 9 subplots in the first 18 pages. Is Giffen trapped in a glacier? Can Polar Boy help? Oh no, he's in another less edgy universe now.

57,726 bought issue 1 according to comichron.com. I know; I was shocked too.

Wondering how it fared against other "Legion" launches...

Legion Lost 1 (2000) - 21,830
Legion Worlds 1 (2001) - 23,777
The Legion 1 (2001) - 30,419
Legion of Super Heroes 1 (2005) - 50,694
Legion of Super Heroes 1 - (2010) - 44,415
Legion of Super Heroes 1 - (2011) - 45,362
JLA 3000 1 (2014) - 57,726

There's no accounting for taste, I suppose.



I wonder how many of those were multiple purchases by the same buyer. Oh my it's another number 1 issue!!!

Well, the real question is how many readers it retains from month to month.

Also, Sarcasm Lad officially rocks.

Keep in mind that those numbers do not represent actual point of sale copies sold. Those numbers are an estimate of how many copies comic book store retailers purchases on the hopes of selling to their customers. For a book with Justice League in the title, this was not a very good launch sales-wise for DC.

JLA 1 (1997) - 104,486
Justice League 1 (2011) - 171,344
Justice League Dark 1 (2011) 62,856
Justice League International 1 (2011) - 61,079

to pick a few...

Sure, but it was still #23 on the list - four spots higher than Detective #27. And I think with the industry's margins being so low, most retailers probably order based on their regular customers' pull lists plus a few extras.

I'm not advocating for the book - just pointing out that it wasn't an immediate disaster.

So other than being not Legion, did anyone read it and have a good review of #2?

Reviews on regular comics websites (non-LSH-related) have been pretty terrible. Like 2 or 3 out of 10 or one star out of five.

SciFiPulse gave it a "A-" grade: http://scifipulse.net/2014/01/in-review-justice-league-3000-2/

It's hard to tell from reviews really. I don't read the reviews of anyone long enough in comics that I know I'm likely to agree with them.

For all I know the low scores are from people who view the characterisations as so poor that it takes down the rest of the book. Perhaps that's valid, if it's poor enough. Perhaps not. The high score could be from someone with a tendency to love most JLA stories or anything with Wonder Woman in it and so on and so forth.

Worse are sites that are blatant cheerleaders for certain companies. But at least they'll be consistent I suppose. Sales will determine it's fate, but that's not necessarily related with that elusive quality thing.

I do recall a few early post crisis meetings between Bats and Supes where there was an edge to the dialogue. It was decently done. This sounds as though it's a psychotic version of that.

I took a look at it yesterday. The artwork is fantastic but the little I saw of the story was a total put off. It just yells out Cliche to me. So for my Justice League in the future fix I bought the latest issue of the Batman Beyond Universe. Still a great book with a cool future JL.

As I drifted away from DC, I did get an issue of JLA Beyond and it looked decent. It was a few issues in by then, so I didn't keep reading it.

I wish JL Beyond was it's own book but Superman/Batman Beyond is also pretty good. Just wish they would change Superman's Black/Silver costume.

Ratings still high for JL3000: http://www.icv2.com/articles/markets/27835.html but Superboy looks like he's entering the danger zone of cancellation.

I don't really look at this sort of site, so it always surprises me to see sales figures that seem so low.

The JLA franchise looks to be one of DC's more successful ones. I guess we;ll see how it ends up comparing to something like JLA Dark in months to come.

#1 57,726
#2 41,423
#3 33,308
#4 30,127

Crap! I forgot this book existed!

I bet that's one memory you wouldn't mind erasing again

Update:
JL3K #9 was released the first week of August. It contained two abbreviated stories (either one of which could have easily been expanded into a full issue) drawn by two different artists.
There will be no JL3K issue in September.
JL3K #10 is scheduled for release October 1st.
The Justice League 3000 The Graphic Novel will be released October 15th, containing issues 1-through-10. (Why buy issue #10?)
There is no cover preview for JLA3K #10 on the DC website, and no preview of JLA3K #11 at all as of this date.

Draw your own conclusions.

JL3K sucked so much that issue 11 collapsed into itself to form a black hole?

Well, Rich Johnston made claims about something to happen in JL3k #12 just yesterday...

(Granted, what you say does sound like a quiet cancellation, but JMDM and Porter appear to be twitting on about later issues too.)

Yikes! That looks terrible.

Is Superman supposed to be like pre-Geoff Johns Kon-El and hates to be called Superman?

I wish the art wasn't so good. It seems like a waste.

Well, color me ignorant and embarrassed. DC lets the writers and artists advertise their own books.

I can only hope it's not the clueless Bwah-ha-ha idiots that they bring back. The duo from the earlier issues of that run (before it went bwah ha ha) were better. Their solo series characters were better still.

It's going to be great seeing Maguire draw them again though. Oh no wait...

Oh well, it'll be nice to SEE Beetle and Booster again, at least.

Booster Gold is a 25th-century Earthman who uses 31st-century technology in the 21st century. Specifically, he uses Legion technology—a flight ring and Brainiac-5 force-shield belt. Now he will be extant in the 31st-century… only this is a 31st-century where the Legion never existed, and is, in fact, irreconcilable with Legion history.

Ted Kord is unquestionably dead in the 21st century, otherwise there could be no Jaime Reyes Blue Beetle.

Sounds like a job for Lame-Retcon Lad and his pal, Have-Your-Cake-And-Eat-It-Too Kid.

Business as usual in the comics.

(And why do they need a glacier? Booster Gold has a Time Machine.)

So, apparently it's confirmed that JL#3000 is not the future of the DCnU, but of an Earth that closely resembles the pre-new 52 DCU, but apparently diverges from that continuity prior to Infinite Crisis.

Given the attempts currently going on to re-kindle the Legion - the two page ad for JLU Annual - then obviously DC had to reconcile the two groups somehow. Shunting JL3K into Morrison's Multiversity works for me.

Oh, I doubt it is because of any Warner-love for the Legion, or any desire for DC to "reconcile" anything.

I rather suppose it is an expression of Giffen's indomitable will.

I don't see the world Giffen portrays as having any place in Morrison's "Multiversity" per se. There are only 52 worlds after all, and I believe all of them have been either defined or destroyed.

Rather, the Giffen/JL3K Universe seems to exist in its own, separate Multiverse-- which means we need a new Laniakea to describe the DC storyweb.

Cosmoverse? Ultraverse? Omniverse?

If the reports of the titles that survive June's Purge/mini-relaunch are correct, JL3000 is done:

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/02...an-robin-red-hood-outlaws-green-lantern/

Yeah!!!

All of the recent cancellations suggest that DC doesn't believe in keeping any title long term anymore. Gone are the days of celebrating issue #300 of this title or that. Now, they just won't last that long before DC editorial decides they want to replace them with something new.

Hmm, well the other shoe has dropped. DC is removing JL3000, only to replace it with..... Justice League 3001!

(Not joking).

http://www.dccomics.com/blog/2015/02/06/new-books-new-creative-teams-the-complete-list-of-new-and-continuing-dc-comics?adid=dchero1_New-titles-New-writers-and-artists-It%E2%80%99s-a-whole-new-era-for-the-DC-Universe-

No new Legion of Super-Heroes title. Bummer. Unless the Legion takes over the Justice League United title somehow...

Maybe it is better that the Legion doesn't get a new title. That way DC won't cancel it again within a couple of issues to replace it with the next new idea.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/a...eague-3001-and-more-from-dc-in-july-2015

I just want to say, I hate Justice League 3000 - 3001.

Me too, Sue Pergirl, me too.

Disgraceful.

I hate Giffen, with all my heart.

So do I.

Cheers, Emerald Empress.

I was only buying this book because of the pre-Flashpoint connections, but now...

There may be only me and Keith Giffen's mom who like JL3000/3001. I disliked it at first, but once I accepted it has nothing to do with the Legion, I began to enjoy it. It reminds me of a Mad Magazine satire on superhero comics combined with the sort of double-issue Adventure era story that Jim Shooter wrote, with everything and everybody in it, and nothing had to make a whole lot of sense. By the time it ends, every character in the DCU should have made an appearance.

Not top of the hit list, but I'm still buying it.

Well, look at it this way - it never tied into the "pre-Flashpoint" (post-Infinite Crisis) DCU. It tied into Giffen/DeMatteis "Superbuddies" stories in "Formerly Known As..." and "I Can't Believe It's Not the Justice League".

Now, if you actually go back and look at those... they didn't tie in AT ALL to what was actually going on in the DCU at the time. Moreover, this is predicated on Blue Beetle never being shot in the head by Max Lord, which means we're not even looking at the pre-Infinite Crisis DCU (since Ted was shot in the head before that), and the previous continuity reboot was... Superman #200, I think. Which was BEFORE Jeph Loeb introduced his version of Supergirl...

[Not to mention Guy's yellow ring, which hadn't been his status since before Morrison's JLA revamp. Or the handwaving of what had happened to Max Lord in the post-Giffen/DeM JLI...]


I looked in again at JL3001 #1 because of SP, EE & FL's posts. And they're being utterly ridiculous, frankly. What, exactly, makes JL300X using Supergirl so ridiculously objectionable, exactly?

I'm not sure how to go about starting a poll on this page but maybe someone else could:

Keith Giffen is....

A) Satan / Antichrist

B) A scumbag hack of a writer and the sole reason that he has one failed title after another is because he's Didio's pal

C) A name that should be taught to small children, along the same lines of 'stranger danger'

D) The third most popular image used for pinatas, and moving up the list rather fast, so I hear

E) Other

Just a reminder to everyone that Rule One of the User Agreement extends to creators as well as fellow posters.



Thanks.

Having gone through all of DC's Sneak Peeks,

"In true Giffen & DeMatteis style, the issue is centred around lots of talking in a restaurant. Following that style, the only real threats to the people they are supposed to be protecting, comes from the "heroes" themselves. In this case, the demolition of said establishment.

The writers generally give their characters an obvious flaw to exploit. They might not be deep, but they are there. Superman is an arrogant blowhard, who can't believe he's not adored. Having lost his fortune, Bruce is stingy. In another "comedy" reversal, Guy Gardner is now in a woman's body. Wonder Woman is overly aggressive, but with a strong sense of lost connections. There's a Flash related character and the group's leader who I'm not familiar with. They are Clark and Bruce's lucky dates for the evening. It's a League without any notable heroism, and with shallow characters. But as an introduction to the characters, you certainly know what everyone's flaws are.

It's a self contained preview. As it's all set in one place, I've no idea what the universe they find themselves in is actually like. Perhaps no one else wants to share a building with them, just like the customers here. (This would rate much lower if I was to remember any affection for the genuine versions of the characters shown here)."

Only 1 or 2 of the Peeks I thought were decent enough to give a second look to. This wasn't one of them. However, out of all of them this was the book where you knew a lot about everyone's personality by the end. So it had a certain strength there.

Here is why I am upset. It's not Giffen and deMatteis, it's Warner management.

First off, they were legitimately surprised by the overwhelmingly positive grass-roots reaction to the announcement of the Supergirl TV series, even moving the premier back six weeks into the regular season.

Secondly, despite this slight departure from a complete lack of faith in the Supergirl character, her own book was cancelled. Boom.

Thirdly, the Supergirl character has now been deported from the main continutity into JLA 3001, where the writers are given 'trashed' characters that upper management doesn't care about the writers to play with... which they subsequently humiliate, torture, and kill.

I hate to see any version of Kara thrown into that cesspool.

I understand it us supposed to be humor. I just don't get the joke.

The old JLA humor seemed to me more light-hearted. In this run the jokes seem to come from misogyny, misanthropy, and disdain.

Maybe its just the curmudeonliness of old age.

Well, at least you have actual reasons relating to the book, SP. Some others here, I'm less sure about...


AFAIK (bearing in mind I didn't read most of JL3000):
1) Earth's a wreck, now called Takton-Galtos.
2) The real Fire, Ice, Beetle and Booster are hanging around (Fire for reasons to do with Etrigan, Beetle & Booster Philip J. Fry'd their way to the future and Ice just... lived that long) now along with - apparently - the real Kara Zor-El Supergirl too.
3) Everyone else are Cadmus-created clones, made by turning existing people into copies of the Leaguers of days past. Obviously, the process is SEVERELY flawed.
4) After the Flash clone died, a pre-existing character was used as the template for a new one, but has somehow kept her own personality rather than get overwritten.

Surprising that in a time where superheroes have never been more prominent across various media platforms, they are as clueless as they were decades ago.



I'm reminded of pre-crisis, where DC took the character off the board so they could kill her off. They hoped that the film wouldn't be a success as the bean counters would then insist on her continuation. As powerful a story as it was, I think they missed the point of what they are there to do on that one.



Ah, so this is the actual Supergirl. I was under the impression that all of this cast were variations/versions of their old cast lifted and dropped in as it suited them. Weren't versions of Fire and Ice there at some point? And so on. If it's the actual post convergence Supergirl, and they are using her because they couldn't get Mary Marvel as they did in their mini, then ...yeah. I can see why that could be an issue.

On the plus side, at DC's rate it will be retconned away shortly. On the downside, it will be a low point for the character.



Based on the Sneak Peek, it was less Bwah hah ha and more large amounts of interpersonal dialogue. That was part of the original JLA.

Personally I liked some of that with the suspense/ action of the first arc, where the team was changing and evolving. Without an actual plot you're left with Bwah ha ha or lots of dialogue filling plot free pages. This seems to be the latter.

As I posted, everyone was pretty shallow, so expect Supergirl to play off that in a similarly one note way.



It was in large parts but both creators have not shied away from using darker themes to their books. I've just read the first couple of issues of Giffen's Doctor Fate mini. It has a few pretty troubling pages in there. But by the time the ongoing came along, it was much more upbeat.



I think it's a reaction to the shifting curmudeonliness of the writers

"I think it's a reaction to the shifting curmudeonliness of the writers"

I totally meant that it was Giffen and DeMatteis turning into Statler and Waldorf, not me.

For myself, I am still full of youthful vigor and sunny optimism.

I'm only at the help-sell-all-your-kid's-girl-scout-cookies stage of life.

Which is why I am looking forward to the new Supergirl on CBS. Melissa Benoit's greatest asset as Supergirl is her smile.

You'll need to let me in on the secret of that one.

You'd think that if the TV show is the slightest bit successful (and you'd think just having one would be enough), DC will be forced (and it does seem that's the word for them in this) to whisk the character away from Giffen and into DC prominence elsewhere.

Reading an article on JLI in Amazing Heroes from May 1987, and this comment by the writer made me chuckle



Give it time, give it time...




Perhaps have them wear something like...jackets... Avengery jackets...




Oops... throwing Darkseid into things is pretty much all DC does now...

The article shows that the team had some very solid ideas about tacking the book, with a cast that was imposed on them to begin with.

Giffen goes on at length about the importance of versatility within the stories. Some espionage, some super heroics, some light hearted issues and building up the characters too. It's a shame it focused so much on Bwah ha ha as it went on.

People remember that, but there's stuff like the Despero arc in there. Not to mention Breakdowns at the end...

I was thinking of Despero as I typed. But I felt it was far enough into the run that the humour had already taken over to an unbalancing degree.

The General Glory stuff came after that... which also stays with me, and not in a good way.

I don't remember Breakdowns fondly at all. Didn't the creative team say that they should have quit before that?

Breakdowns... it had some good moments - the Silver Sorceress' sacrifice stands out - but it was too long, basically.

Finished JL3001 #1 & #2 and, at the risk of being banished from Legion fandom, enjoyed them. Supes is still a jerk but he fights the good fight, Ice & Fire make a great team, I wonder when Lois Lane became evil, the whole thing is pretty nutso and some LSH members (but not named as such) make a brief and unfortunate appearance.

You've got to love Supergirl, though. She's authentic. She's a hero. She gets the job done and is a peacemaker. It reminds me of that scene in the 3boot when the SPs, who loathed the Legion, adored Supergirl. I don't like messed up Supergirl - and maybe the JL3001 team doesn't either.

Two pages of silly FAQs, which made me smile (no bwa-ha-ha).

Despite my dislike of Giffen, I don't consider myself to blindly hate the idea of a funny superhero team. Peter David's three runs on X-Factor had a lot of wonderful moments, and were obviously inspired by JLI. A few years ago, I borrowed the JLI trades from the library and read them with an open mind. My reaction was the same as my reaction to most of what Giffen does: a promising start which quickly unravels into something that is not to my taste. I found it lacking in verve, and I felt it became a little too impressed with itself and the comedy started to dominate to the detriment of everything else. Having said that, if the rest of the original JLI/JLE run is ever collected in trades (which at this point seems unlikely), I would continue to read them with an open mind. But I doubt I'll ever give JL3000/3001 a chance -- Sue Pergirl's post would seem to indicate that Giffen and DeMatteis have gotten coarser with age, and that's a major turn-off for me.

It's difficult to maintain humour in a superhero book that goes on for extended publication. I liked the original JLI but the jokes became repetitive and/or ridiculous and it just wears on the reader. I forget at what point I stopped reading the series.

JL3000/3001 risks falling into that same trap. I would probably read it with greater satisfaction if I knew there was a specific endpoint. Wrap everything up by the end of 3001: either the team rises above their differences and personality failings, or the experiment ends, the DNA of the original people is somehow restored and they go about trying to make the galaxy a better place as regular humans - which is a really boring story, so the series ends.

Sue Pergil wrote about her concern that Supergirl would be thrown in the JL cesspool. That's a valid fear given the tone of the book so far, but based on the last issue, Supergirl is the pure light who may continue untainted by her surroundings, and may even inspire others to higher behaviour. Personally, I'd like to see that, so it may be just wishful thinking.

Don't let me stop you from reading a book I haven't read.

I got through the first six issues of JLA3000 before dropping the book.

I said to myself do I really need this kind of pessimism in my life?

Giffen and DeMatteis ask the question, "What if superheroes were just regular people?" and they have a pretty low opinion of regular people.

I actually hold out great hope for the human race.

#Tomorrowland

It's all right. I probably wouldn't have read it either way.



Me too. It's always nice to find out that someone else feels that way.