NOTE: These reviews are re-posted from the Classic Comics Forum , where I am a member. If a lot of this information seems redundant to you or if I reference posters who aren't on LW, that's because I used it to fill in other members who weren't familiar with the Legion over there.

Could this be my most ambitious project ever? Few properties have been scrutinized by fans over the years as much as the Legion of Super-heroes. With it's combination of science fiction, epic space opera antics, and adolescent soap opera drama, the team, which preceded even the Justice League and Teen Titans, has become one of the most intricate and continuity dense comic properties of all time. While this has spawned a very hardcore fanbase, it is these same continuity dense traits that have often scared new readers from dipping their toes into the series. With that in mind, I'm going to tackle what many Legion fans consider to be the most polarizing era in the team's history: the 5YL period. 

Fresh off the success of Watchmen and after legendary writer Paul Levitz ended his near 9 year run on the series, Levitz's frequent co-plotter and DC superstar at the time Keith Giffen would be handed the reigns to the team and usher in a radical departure from what fans knew before. Joined by Interlac APA members and longtime Legion fans Tom and Mary Bierbaum, Giffen would fundamentally turn the franchise on its head. The safety wheels were off. Nobody was safe and the future as Legion fans knew it was gone. This was an "adult Legion", in every sense of the word. Did it succeed though? That's what I, and hopefully you, will find out.



EDIT (7/29/15): Here's the link to Tom Bierbaum's blog recounting his experiences working on the Legion.

http://itsokimasenator.livejournal.com/

Background Information

In 1985, DC published the epic maxi-series Crisis on Infinite Earths in an attempt to both catch up in sales to Marvel Comics and gain back a larger portion of the market while also boiling down their 50+ year continuity to make it more manageable for new readers. Whether or not they succeeded and if throwing out so much continuity and history was a prudent move can be debated back and forth, but the event ultimately dealt a major blow to one of DC's top selling books at the time, the Legion of Super-heroes.

At the time, Paul Levitz was in the middle of his now legendary run on book. Levitz, along with his contemporaries Marv Wolfman and Chris Claremont, was a master of juggling multiple plot threads in each issue while also driving forward the franchise forward, actually allowing characters to grow. Members left the team. Members died. Some married and retired from being superheroes. New members joined and began to replace the old guard. It was a book that understood the need for characters to not remain static and to actually grow up with the reader. In contrast to the modern comics paradigm of reboots and relaunches to radically shift characters in new directions, Levitz understood that character growth must come organically through the events they faced and the relationships they had. Like the New Teen Titans and Uncanny X-Men, the Legion grew in popularity due to its ability to push the characters into the next stage of their lives while remaining true to the continuity that came before it.

Unfortunately, the good times were not meant to last forever. The events of Crisis were a huge thorn in the Legion’s side, creating a double-edged sword situation. On one hand, the Legion, for the most part, was immune to much of radical retooling that other franchises, such as Superman and Hawkman, felt in the post-Crisis era as their existence was 1000 years removed from the “present” DCU and their status as a top selling book gave the book freedom from sales driven changes (i.e. the Byrne revamp of Superman). On the other hand, however, it was that same lack of change that quickly made the Legion a problem franchise. John Byrne’s reboot of Superman completely removed Superboy from Kal-El’s career as a superhero, retconning Superman as only putting on his cape once he was an adult. However, how could the Legion be inspired by Superboy if he now never existed in the DCU? As you may have seen in shaxper’s reviews of the post-Crisis Superman books , things got messy fast. Levitz was forced to salvage the situation as best as he could and write a way out of the paradox he now found himself in. This led to the convoluted "Pocket Universe" saga that ultimately revealed that the Superboy and the Smallville the Legion knew were simply constructs of the Time Trapper all along and that any interaction they had with Superboy was never with the real thing.



Needless to say, it was clear that Levitz's mojo took a heavy blow with this turn. Following the death of the Pocket Universe Superboy to remove the last vestiges of pre-Crisis ties to the Legion, Levitz's run quickly sank. Sales began to go down and DC editors scrambled to find a replacement to take the franchise in a new direction while Levitz himself was promoted to VP of DC. Levitz's last arc on the series, The Magic Wars, saw the United Planets besieged by ancient arcane forces in a battle of magic vs science. Though the Legionnaires ultimately defeated the Archmage and the universe was saved, it was clear that the Legion's future was a much darker place than it had ever been before, setting the franchise up for the dystopian future that would soon follow in the TMK era.

Legion of Super-heroes (1989) #1



"Five Years Later..."
Writer: Keith Giffen, Tom Bierbaum, Mary Bierbaum
Pencils: Keith Giffen 
Ink: Al Gordon
Color: Tom McGraw
Editor: Mark Waid

Grade: A- 

Summary: We open to a splash page of stars with only the words "Five Years Later" in the center of the page. From there, we move to various panels of news correspondents, including Dirk Morgna aka Sun Boy, discussing various topics. We then cut to a hooded figure watching the news as he talks to his secretary. The figure laments "watching everything fall the pieces", but the secretary reminds him of his responsibilities. The figure that removes his hood to reveal that he is Reep Daggle aka Chameleon Boy. Reep asks for his father's aide, Marla Latham, for help in his endeavor. We then find Rokk Krinn aka Cosmic Boy on his homeworld of Braal, married to his wife Lydda Jath aka Night Girl. The two are expecting their first child, living on a planet that has largely fallen into disarray. Like Reep, Rokk also laments the fall of the Legion and regrets not being there to save the team from splitting up. As he travels the streets, he is harassed by a UP soldier who asks to see his ID before he can go on his way. Meanwhile in outer space, Salu Digby aka Shrinking Violet, who is now an officer in the Imsk army, is returning to a shuttle to meet her commanding officer for a meeting. An android meets her as she exits the shuttle and asks her about removing a large scar over her eye, but she refuses to get rid of it. Her commander also brings up the scar issue, but she refuses once again and is discharged from the army for refusing to follow an order. She then sends a message to Ayla Ranzz aka Lightning Lass that she's coming to Winath to see her. Back on Braal, Rokk is meeting his friend Loomis and discussing how much things have changed since they were kids. Suddenly, Cham appears and proposes his idea of reuniting the Legion to make the universe a better place. Rokk is initially shocked, but slowly realizes that the universe needs the Legion again now more than ever. The two walk off, beginning their journey to rebuild the Legion again. 

Thoughts: This issue is a continuity nut's dream. Every page is lined with Easter Eggs, references, and world-building that would become a hallmark of the run and it's emphasis on continuity heavy plotting. Reading this in 2015, I'm amazed at how any new reader, if there were any, could have understood this story. When I first read these issues, I had the aide of Wikipedia and Comicvine to look up any character or setting I was unfamiliar with. But in 1989? I imagine such comprehension would be a Herculean feat for a new Legion reader. For one thing, TMK (Tom, Mary, and Keith) actively reject using the Legionnaires' hero names and instead rely on using their actual civilian identities (i.e Reep, Rokk, Salu, etc.). On one hand, this gives the story a more intimate feeling, as if these are characters we've known for a long time and are revisiting after years apart. On the other hand, if you lack that familiarity, it's near impossible to understand who these characters are and what their relationships are to each other. Furthermore, the numerous nods to past Legion continuity will play an important role in later issues, which a new reader may not be privy to.

Giffen's use of a nine panel underscores the huge influence Alan Moore's Watchmen had on storytelling at the time and I think it fits the kind of story being told here. The limited panel size forces the artist to squeeze in only the bare essentials of an image to convey the message of the story, leaving much to the reader's imagination to fill in the gaps. This creates a more complex method of storytelling that doesn't hold the reader's hand. One downside of this method, however, is that it often prevents any "motion" in a story. Smaller panels prevent the characters from showing any movement or engaging in any action that would require more panel size. Giffen circumvents this by focusing more on dialogue and interpersonal moments rather than action heavy set pieces throughout this run. 

What's most enjoyable about the issue is the sense of mystery TMK leave the readers with. Why is Dirk now a politician? Why is Rokk having flashbacks to a war and how did he lose his powers? Why is Salu now in the army and where did she get that scar? It leaves the reader hungry for answers and is very effective in that role. This is helped by the use of backup pages at the end of the issue that serve as clues to the overall events that occur during the 5 year gap. One example is this message from Polar Boy to the President of Earth:




Though the message is fairly concise, it sets up the tension between the government and the Legion that is developed during this run. 

Legion of Super-heroes (1989) #2





Writer: Keith Giffen, Tom Bierbaum, Mary Bierbaum
Pencils: Keith Giffen 
Ink: Al Gordon
Color: Tom McGraw
Editor: Mark Waid

Grade: B+ 

Summary: The primary focus of this issue is on Jo Nah aka Ultra Boy. The issue opens with a group of soldiers/police chasing a young girl named Kono through the alleys of Rimbor, Jo’s home world. Meanwhile, a Khund businessman and chairman of a company are discussing how Jo’s ‘Silverale’ business is cutting into their profits and that catching Kono will lead them to Jo, whom Kono works for. Kono continues to evade the cops and eventually hides in the sewer, thinking she has escaped but is actually being watched to use her to lead them to Jo. After a brief Silverale commercial, we finally meet Jo, who is now a smuggler living in the seedy Rimbor underworld. He’s just woken up from a one night stand with a woman named Ginny and is annoyed to see the commercial playing on TV. Kono pops in and scares Ginny, making her leave in anger. Outside, Ginny is confronted by the same goons who saw Kono in the sewer and threaten to kill her unless she gives them information on Jo. Though she gives them his location, they kill her anyway. Meanwhile, in outer space, Loomis and Lydda are enjoying a catered meal courtesy of Reep. Loomis points out that the cost of their one meal could feel a family on Braal for a month, but Lydda says they should enjoy these small joys in life when they can. Back on Rimbor, the goons blow up Jo’s hideout, forcing him and Kono to fight for their lives. On Earth, Shvaugn Erin, science police officer and longtime girlfriend of Jan Arrah aka Element Lad, is returning to her home to find a note from Dirk professing his love for her. She writes it off and decides to take a bath, lamenting how hard being a SP officer is now. Little does Shvaugn realize that all her communications are being monitored by a woman named Circe, Dirk’s current lover and spy for the government. Back on Rimbor, Jo searches the wreckage of his destroyed home until he finds what he’s looking for: a tarnished shaving set from Rokk with the acronym “L.L.L” etched into it. The issue ends with a page of all black panels broken only by blue dialogue bubbles, ending with a panel of a man dressed in what appears to be Victorian era clothing.

Thoughts: This issue is even more jam packed with details and content than the last! Instead of continuing to follow Rokk and Reep again, TMK make the conscious choice to keep filling the readers in on the current status of the other Legionnaires. I can’t say Ultra Boy has ever been one of my favorite Legionnaires so the decision to make him one of the central characters during this run struck me as odd when I first read these issues. I’ve always viewed the characters as a discount Superboy replacement, but TMK actually make me interested in the character here for the first time. During the Levitz years, Jo was always a generic, good guy jock kind of character, lacking any real traits beyond his relationship with Phantom Girl. However, placing Jo back on his home world of Rimbor gives TMK the chance to make him into more of a “rouge with a heart of gold” which gives him interesting archetype to embody.

You probably notice that my summary frequently jumps around between different events and characters every sentence. This reflects the approach taken to storytelling during this run. It’s a style very reminiscent of what Levitz would do during his run that preceded this one, constantly shifting between different characters in each issue to give different subplots a chance to develop while also fleshing out the main storyline of the issue. In contrast, TMK don’t seem to have a main plot (at least for now) that they want to get the readers invested in. Instead, these past two issues are dedicated to slowly drawing back the curtain on the current state of the universe and how things have changed since Levitz left the book. It’s a very ambitious approach to writing that I think works well in the context of the story they’re trying to tell, since it makes the reader constantly want to know what happened to subplot A before it ends on a cliffhanger so they can get to subplot B.

My favorite scene in this issue is when Jo emerges from the wreckage to find the shaving kit. The look on his face conveys all the emotion the story had been building towards:

Legion of Super-heroes (1989) #3



Writer: Keith Giffen, Tom Bierbaum, Mary Bierbaum
Pencils: Keith Giffen
Ink: Al Gordon
Color: Tom McGraw
Editor: Mark Waid

Grade: B

Summary: The issue opens with a page of different images taken by a probe of different Legionnaires. Though none of the Legionnaires are show in the images themselves, their location as well as current activity are shown. We then cut to the castle of the evil mage Mordru who has captured longtime Legion ally and secret Green Lantern Rond Vidar and is torturing him by letting some creature eat him alive, though it is merely an illusion that will last for eternity. One of Mordru’s servants informs him that the Legionnaires are regrouping once again. On the planet Winath, Garth Ranzz aka Lightning Lad and his wife Imra Ardeen aka Saturn Girl are now running a successful produce shipping business with Garth’s brother, the once villainous Mekt Ranzz aka Lightning Lord. Though they are better off than most, the galactic economy is still hurting their business. Meanwhile, Salu meets up with Ayla and she takes Salu into a secluded grove on Winath to surprise her, revealing the statues to all the dead Legionnaires that were bought by Garth from Earthgov. On Rimbor, Rokk and Reep are looking for Jo when a large, furry creature beckons for them to follow it. Though they are wary, they decide to go with it. They find Jo and are happy to be reunited after so long. Back on Earth, the Dominators are noticing all this Legionnaire activity and are worried that it could pose a threat to their plans of galactic domination. They have hired an agent to deal with the problem and have a tape of his work to see if he’s worth the price. The tape reveals that the agent is the man dressed in Victorian clothing from the end of the last issue. He reveals himself to be the space pirate Roxxas, who murdered the entire Trommite race except for Element Lad. In an attempt to establish his brutality, he murders the Legionnaire Blok, who was hibernating(?) on a barren planet. Shavaugn gets her hands on the same tape and his heartbroken to see what has happened to Blok. Back at Mordru’s castle, it’s revealed that one of Mordru’s servants had been eavesdropping on the Legionnaire’s conversation and their plan to get back Mysa Nal aka White Witch from Mordru. Mordru tells one of his servants, Vyrkos, that they should prepare for their arrival. Back on Winath, Garth finds that he has received a mysterious package in the mail. In it, he discovers the broken body of Blok that Roxxas has sadistically delivered to him. He tells one of his workers to prepare a transport to Shanghalla to bury Blok. The issue ends with a mysterious voice speaking as we see the grave of Lar Gand aka Mon-El. The tombstone explodes and a figure rises and walks off.

Thoughts: These summaries are getting more and more tiring to write, but I’m not complaining. TMK’s relentless assault of information and plotting is so refreshing to read in an era where an issue like this would be told in six issues, with at least one of those likely being a tie-in to some company wide event comic. It’s nice to check back in with Rokk and Reep again, as their return ties the first two issues together and begins a more cohesive focus for the book. The banter between the trio is beautifully written and its small moments of camaraderie that give these early issues their spark, contrasting with the dark setting the heroes find themselves in.

The return of Mordru as a villain is an odd choice, especially since Paul Levitz had the Legionnaires remove Mordru’s evil soul and essentially make him a good guy during his run on the Baxter series. I do have to wonder if this is a deliberate regression on the part of the writers or whether they were simply ignorant of that story. Either way, Mordru is used effectively here. In contrast to his usual self, his much more calm and composed, giving as a villain who’s both calculating and cunning, relying on his true power only when needed. His torture of Rond is very disturbing, especially since Rond’s mouth is gone, preventing him from screaming.

The one failing of this issue is the perhaps the most obvious: the death of Blok. Putting aside my own general distaste for killing off characters, Blok’s death here just doesn’t work, neither on an emotional nor storytelling level. It’s no secret that the Bierbaums were staunch enthusiasts of the pre-Adventure Comics #350 Legion roster, so newer characters like Blok, Wildfire, Dawnstar, Tellus,etc. were often written out of the book or completely changed past the point of recognition under their pen. Their use of Blok seems to be more of a case of the former. Even during the Levitz years, Blok never really had much of a personality and had a tendency to fade into the background. He also wasn’t popular among readers, a fate that unfortunately befell many of the non-humanoid Legionnaires. I’m guessing those reasons gave TMK the backing to write this story, since they felt they wouldn’t face any reader backlash for killing off a character simply to prop up their villain. The problem is that Roxxas as a villain has no connection to Blok that would make their confrontation have any meaning beyond a superficial fight sequence. Tom Bierbaum has said that Shvaugn Erin was originally supposed to die at Roxxas’ hands, which would have made much more sense considering their shared connection to Element Lad. However, Shvaugn was spared and Blok was given a pointless death that served no real purpose other than a cheap stake raising moment. The fact that Roxxas sends the body parts to Garth undermines some of the tension and just becomes silly, like something out of an 80’s slasher movie.

The fight between Roxxas and Blok also brings to light my earlier point about how the nine panel grid can be both a boon and hindrance to conveying action sequences. This fight is an instance where things are too vague for the reader to understand. How is Roxxas hurting Blok? Is he simply touching him and causing him to explode? Is he carrying bombs? What's going on here?

Legion of Super-heroes (1989) #4



Writer: Keith Giffen, Tom Bierbaum, Mary Bierbaum
Pencils: Keith Giffen
Ink: Al Gordon
Color: Tom McGraw
Editor: Mark Waid

Grade: A-

Summary: This issue opens on the planet Talok VIII, home of Tasmia Mallor aka Shadow Lass. Another Talokian, Grev, informs her that the council of Talok has declared that he is to replace Tasmia as the planetary protector. She understands and agrees its for the best. While she is in her home, she is surprised to find her long dead lover Lar Gand aka Mon-El Waiting for her there. Meanwhile, on the planet Colu, Querl Dox aka Brainiac 5 is working with some cells infected with the Validus plague in his lab when Tasmia and Lar arrive. Lar reveals that the Legion’s greatest enemy, the Time Trapper, is within his body and brought him back to life to use him as an invulnerable vessel to host his soul. Horrified at the prospect that Querl might remove him from Lar’s body, the Time Travel snatches Lar from Colu and teleports him to his dimension. As the two begin the battle, the Time Trapper reveals the horrible truth behind the Legion: they were all his creation. Hundreds of years ago, the Time Trapper foresaw a future in which Mordru were rise to power and rule the universe for a millennium. In order to prevent this, the Time Trapper created Superboy to inspire teens in the future to found the Legion. For years, the plan worked and the Legion kept Mordru in check. However, once they defeated Darkseid during the Great Darkness Saga, he realized that they were becoming too powerful even for him. Even though they thought they had killed him (LoSH v3 #50), the Time Trapper survived. Ultimately, if Lar kills the Time Trapper, his reality will completely cease to exist. With a look of determination on his face, Lar realizes that he has no other option but to end his reality for the greater good of the future. As he deals the final blow, his universe begins to fade to white as it disappears.

Thoughts: In contrast to the last three issues, this one is a lot more linear. We don’t jump around to too many characters or subplots this time, even if the location of the story keeps changing. In this regard, it’s a nice change of pace that gives the reader a chance to catch their breath. Ironically, this issue is even crazier than the last!

The return of Mon-El and the Time Trapper is definitely a bold move. The “final” battle against the Time Trapper during the Levitz years is one of my personal favorite Legion stories so the fact that its brilliant ending is undone here is a bit disappointing. Resurrecting Mon-El, on the other hand, is a good idea in my book since I felt his original death was pretty cheap and lazily tacked on to the Magic Wars arc without actually advancing the story in any way.

The retcon of the Time Trapper being behind the creation of the Legion both works and it doesn’t. Like the changes brought about by the Pocket Universe story, the continued undermining of Superman’s importance to the Legion doesn’t sit well with me. Superman is the DCU’s supreme hero and role model for all other heroes who followed him. The Legion simply coming together on their own can work, but I felt that their bond to Superman made them more interesting as a team. On the other hand, TMK are able to make do with the massive restrictions the Superman editors placed on them. If the last vestiges of Superman’s role in the Legion were going to be removed, I’m glad to see it go out in a blaze of glory. I could simply state how Mon-El’s final words is one of the greatest moments in comics for me, but I think the page speaks for itself:



Awesome.

Great reviews. I think I agree with everything you've said about the series.

(Why didn't you post the roll call from the other site too?)

Oh crap, I forgot!

It's a bit too late to insert in near the beginning of the thread now though.

It's never too late.

I'm looking forward to reading these reviews. I'll be making comments as I go along, such as:



This sentence implies that Giffen had something to do with Watchmen, but he did not. That was Dave Gibbons. What Giffen did (though he denied it) was to copy the nine-panel grid format Gibbons used.

I love it that you're giving these issues grades.



Good insight. I often felt that TMK were writing for the faithful and not really concerned with expanding the Legion's fanbase.




Another good insight. The nine-panel-grid approach was jarring and most of the images were ugly. Giffen lacked the finesse that Gibbons imbued Watchmen with, and some panels were downright confusing.

On the other hand, there was indeed an intimacy and focus on relationships more so than at any previous time in the Legion's history. That aspect I admired very much.

Wonderful reviews, Stalgie. TMK's 5YL remains my favourite Legion period.

One of the standard questions of our time is "Where were you when Kennedy was shot?" (or for younger people, when 9-11 happened). I can remember where I was and what I felt when I read the first issue of 5YL and, even for an old Legion fan, it was confusing, but exciting.

You make a good point that hadn't occurred to me, that the Bierbaums gave the post-Adventure Legionnaires, such as Blok, short shrift. Interesting! We know what they did to Dawnstar as well.

Will any issue get an A+? I'm looking forward to your succeeding reviews.

I apologize for that awkward phrasing, HWW. I meant that Moore's work was a huge influence on his contemporaries of that era and Giffen's work from that point on was heavily influenced by Watchmen.

I know one that definitely will and I think it will surprise a lot of you when we get there, but we still have many issues before we get there.

I think you're right, and that was one of the things I found off-putting about TMK's approach. Whenever I've followed ensemble-type series--a style I love, by the way--there is always some central plot thread to unify the various strands. This was true on TV shows such as Hill Street Blues, St. Elsewhere, Babylon 5, and, currently, Downton Abbey. It is crucial, particularly when a series is just starting, to give readers/viewers a main character or plot on which to focus and through which we come to know the rest of the characters and story lines. It's a very difficult balance to pull off, and I don't think TMK mastered it--certainly not at the beginning of the run and maybe not ever.



Yes, this scene pretty much redeems the early run. The Legion has bitten the dust, much like the shaving kit, but it matters to Jo--and so it matters to us. As a reader, I now have some emotion tied to these events.

The thing that most disturbed me about Blok's death was that he had started to undergo a bizarre physical transformation and, as the last of his kind, he did not know what it meant. Was it puberty? Cancer? Something else else else? Alas, we never found out. His death was a cheap way of not dealing with a character the writers didn't want to deal with.

Was that transformation a TMK addition or did that have roots in the Levitz era? I don't have my Levitz issues in front of me so I can't remember.

Yes, the transformation began in the Levitz era after Blok was blasted by an enemy (I want to say the Omen...you might have snagged that issue at Comic-Con). I think the changes were mostly due to Keith wanting to experiment with Blok's look.

Thanks Nighty!

Exactly. This story reminded as that there was no such thing as a "final story" in comics, just as there is no such thing as a "farewell tour" in rock 'n' roll. "Final stories" are a cheap, theatrical gimmick that can be undone by the next creative team.



True, but I accepted his death because of its verisimilitude. People in real life die what seem to be pointless deaths, and I've come to accept that as a reality of how fragile life is and that many of us really don't fulfill our ultimate potential (which makes it truly precious when someone does).

Reality is not fiction, of course, and story lines should be advanced by whatever happens in them. An advancement does not have to be major; sometimes it can simply involve a character reacting emotionally to something that has happened. One of the failings of the Levitz era in general, I think, is that he didn't provide us with many such moments. Even in the misguided story line where Lyle Norg was found to be alive, we never got to see the Legion's reaction to their long-dead comrade returning to life! Instead we got to see scenes of a brooding Lyle, who, in the end, didn't even turn out to be the real Lyle. It was pretty much a waste of newsprint.

Mon-El's death could similarly have been redeemed had the Legion reacted to the passing of this man who was once considered their greatest member, a man they admired so much that they went to great effort to free him from the Phantom Zone. Instead, as the Magic Wars ended, no one other than Shady even seemed to be aware of his passing.

It is nice that he was brought back to deliver the coup de grace to the Time Trapper and thus end the preboot timeline. Still, I don't have much emotion attached to this story since, by this time, the Legion and I as a fan had been jerked around so much, it seemed, that all of these "major events" had lost their meaning.



Agreed. For those of us who ascribe to certain faith traditions, it would be like finding out that Jesus Christ, the great savior of mankind, was actually created by the devil. It pretty much makes everything that is good and noble and worthwhile a cynical lie.



Yes!

Always good to see 5YG. A few thoughts in passing...

On the background - "Needless to say, it was clear that Levitz's mojo took a heavy blow with this turn. Following the death of the Pocket Universe Superboy to remove the last vestiges of pre-Crisis ties to the Legion, Levitz's run quickly sank. Sales began to go down and DC editors scrambled to find a replacement to take the franchise in a new direction while Levitz himself was promoted to VP of DC."

I never got the impression that sales tanked. I'm sure new readers from the relaunch would have been welcome, but I didn't think (based on today's memory cell) that the book was decreasing in sales drastically in advance of anyone else's. Likewise, Levitz had planned to go at #50, but was persuaded to stay on. So, I never felt there was any desperate scrambling around there either. There's a lot in that last year that acts as foreshadowing to the TMK run, so it was a pretty smooth transition as these things go.



On #1 - "Reading this in 2015, I'm amazed at how any new reader, if there were any, could have understood this story. When I first read these issues,"

I read that the smaller initial cast was supposed to lead new readers into the series. The history and texture of the previous runs would make the worlds that cast travelled in a rich and rewarding place. I do recall a few letters stating they had no issues. A quick look at #1 and it's really Cham, Rokk, Vi and Lydda. Dirk gets some panel time and we see the founders and Brek in passing. Loomis and Marla are firmly supporting cast. So, to be fair to them, I think that's a pretty decent number, compared to other team books.



On #2: "In contrast, TMK don’t seem to have a main plot (at least for now) that they want to get the readers invested in. Instead, these past two issues are dedicated to slowly drawing back the curtain on the current state of the universe and how things have changed since Levitz left the book. It’s a very ambitious approach to writing that I think works well in the context of the story they’re trying to tell..."

I think that the slow drawing back of events and introduction of the cast is just what the reader is supposed to be invested in. While we don't get Cham & Rokk, that's replaced with Loomis and Lydda (an interesting choice to progress that side of things - would seeing Cham & Rokk some more have improved that, but losing a couple of classic lines?). We get a little more on both the Dominators on Earth and on Roxxas as subplots too.



On #3 - The Mordru story is a progression from the other sorcerers making him "good". At the end of the Magic Wars, they required leadership, in an increasing hostile galaxy where their own powers had now waned. They hoped that a reformed Mordru would be able to provide that, with their and Mysa's guidance and support. He may not have had his sorcery, but it makes the point that there's plenty of bad things around without resorting to the supernatural. Mordru thinks he's a good guy throughout all this, which makes him a very strong character.

I'm not 100% on the sequence but Rond was supposed to die and the team had been told not to use Green Lanterns (see also Thanangar and Super-anything). The ring being destroyed took care of one aspect of that, but Rond may have been for the chop anyway. Like Erin, he got a reprieve. I like the non-GL Rond. His appearances in TMK and Adventure were strong ones. Then there's the later subplot.

Bearing in mind that the death of Blok was a fill in for Erin's death as you said, the link between Blok and Roxxas was that Blok was the last of his kind. This was Roxxas reminding Jan, the last of his kind, that they had unfinished business and that this is what Roxxas thought of survivors. So it wasn't quite pointless to the overall plot, although Erin would have been the closer connection.

As to how he does it, there's a grenade being thrown on panel one with a "Poom" sound effect to follow. There are 2 more "Poom" effects with similar damage to Blok, so they would have come from two more grenades. It fits into the arsenal that Roxxas had been given. He mentions his anti-Legion arsenal on that page too.



On 4: "The “final” battle against the Time Trapper during the Levitz years is one of my personal favorite Legion stories so the fact that its brilliant ending is undone here is a bit disappointing. Resurrecting Mon-El, on the other hand, is a good idea in my book since I felt his original death was pretty cheap and lazily tacked on to the Magic Wars arc without actually advancing the story in any way."

I do note that you said that "Following the death of the Pocket Universe Superboy to remove the last vestiges of pre-Crisis ties to the Legion, Levitz's run quickly sank." But the "personal favourite" Trapper story came after that.

Mon-El's death in Baxter had the Mark of Giffen (also the name of an under-rated '70s martial arts movie where all the martial artists die in it) around it. This is based on him wishing to make things tougher for a team to be heroic, with the implication that it means more when it's tougher. It links in with the last issues of the last run. Mon-El was critically injured there too, and removed from the board.

But having said that, my understanding was that this issue had been mostly plotted to bring him back when the edict came down. Perhaps we would have got the interesting Eltro Gand subplot, secrets of the Trapper and Lar (and it's only Lar now) and Tasmia would go off exploring together.

I have to say that dealing with the edict resulted in some very memorable Legion moments and the addition of two excellent cast members, even as it was the beginning of the end for everything else. Oohh, suspense built up for upcoming reviews

Dammit thoth, you're not supposed to poke holes in my reviews here!

Joking aside, you do make some valid points:

1). I read somewhere (can't remember where now) that sales began to decline after the Pocket Universe Saga and Levitz himself has said that he didn't enjoy writing the book as much after he was forced to deal with the post-COIE issues. Whether or not that was reflected in the work itself is a subjective matter (I enjoyed those issues anyway), that's what I've read and heard.

2). Even if the Time Trapper battle came after the Pocket Universe Saga, I still stand by my opinion that it was an awesome story!

3). Having Mon-El become a more prominent member during the 5YL run would definitely have been interesting. Alas, that never fully came to pass.

4). The "grenades" used by Roxxas against Blokk look no different than the ground or Blok's skin, which was hard to discern on a first reading. Also, when Roxxas rushes Blok and fight him in close quarters, wouldn't being in such close proximity to the explosions hurt him too?

I read that Levitz simply didn't particularly enjoy having to be involved with the wider DCU.

You had Brainy wondering why he didn't know of Supergirl's death.
Superboy was retconned away and Levitz's initial solution wasn't taken on board.
There were some things around Legends that didn't quite happen for him. I have a post on Crisis of the Soul somewhere.
Then there was Laurel Kent getting shot, only to turn up as an android in Millennium.

I think there were a number of good issues after the Superboy thing. After he was gone we had conspiracy, the Trapper issue, the trial issue showing how much the team had changed ideologically, the new costumes and that really good Emerald Empress 2 parter.

Having Lar more prominent would perhaps have shown just how much further the Legion and the UP had to go to get back on their feet. I think that they did some interesting things with him, but he can overshadow things. Just look at the last Levitz run, where he was leader, the mightiest Legionnaire and a green lantern at the same time.

Legion of Super-heroes (1989) #5



Writer: Keith Giffen, Tom Bierbaum, Mary Bierbaum
Pencils: Keith Giffen
Ink: Al Gordon
Color: Tom McGraw
Editor: Mark Waid

Grade: B

Summary: Following the destruction of the original Legion timeline at the end of last issue, we open in what appears to be a medieval realm. It’s the year 2994 and Mordru has seized control of the universe in this new timeline and the world has been sent back to the Dark Ages. Our first character is Andrew Nolan (Ferro Lad in the original universe) who is on his way to a monastery to meet Mysa Nal (White Witch in the original universe). Andrew is replacing a man named Foxmoor as Mysa’ confidant to take down Mordru. While she is initially hesitant to divulge information to him, she eventually reveals that she knows of another universe that should exist in place of theirs (the original 30th century). Andrew takes this information to Rond Vidar, a gifted scientist and intellectual in this timeline. Meanwhile, Glorith, one of the wives of Mordru, is returning to her home where she is met by Mano, who serves Mordru in this timeline. After their meeting, she decides to keep an eye on Rond, who she thinks is up to something. Glorith begins to spy on Rond’s activities, eavesdropping on his meeting with Andrew and watching him perform a ritual. During the ritual he is hit with lighting, giving him access to the alternate timeline. He passes out and wakes up to find that Glorith has taken him in. She explains that she can be of help to him in his plan. Meanwhile, Mano has discovered Mysa’s link to the conspiracy and goes to stop her. Just as he is about to attack her, Andrew jumps out of the shadow and tackles him. While this is happening, Glorith is preparing to engage in the ritual. Just as the lightning strikes, she realizes the spell is fatal and curses Rond. The spell takes effect and the timeline begins to fade to white just like it did at the end of the last issue. Mordru can only shout “No!” in despair as he realizes what is happening, but it’s too late.

Thoughts: I’ve never been a huge fan of Elseworlds stories, but I think this issue could qualify as one of the few good “Elseworlds” tales that was never given that official title. Unlike other stories from that imprint (Superman At Earth’s End or Catwoman: Guardian of Gotham), the characters are not only written in character, but the bizarre universe they’re thrown into actually serves a purpose beyond a superficial setting swap. Placing the Legionnaires in a world ruled by arcane magic and medieval superstition contrasts heavily with the seemingly enlightened science oriented 31st century that the Legion is typically associated with. In some ways, it feels like an alternate ending to the Magic Wars, where the Legion failed in their mission and the Archmage truly did reign supreme. The fact that Mordru himself never makes a direct appearance in the story itself until the last few panels serves as an advantage, as it makes him seem more like an entity or legend rather than a physical being. As such, his influence is almost as deadly as his powers, as is seen when Mano tortures and kills a young woman by dissolving her live in a pit of acid.

I like that the issue focuses on Rond Vidar, making him the mastermind behind the plan and our point of view for the story. Rond is a character that I feel is often underutilized and this is easily one of his best portrayals. On the other hand, I don’t really care for TMK bringing back Glorith as the Time Trapper’s replacement in the new timeline they’re crafting. Glorith was a pretty uninteresting, one-dimensional villain in her original appearance in the Adventure era so she seem’s like an odd choice. I personally thought it would have been more interesting if Rond was the new Time Trapper, especially since he has a fixation on time travel and timelines that was established in the original universe. Despite my dislike of Glorith, the Bierbaums will do great things with the character in the upcoming annual so I can forgive them for that for now.

My in-depth analysis of LSH 5 can be found here.

Thanks for the link, HWW. Your review of this issue blows mine out of the water!

Oh, I'm not trying to blow anybody out of anything, Stalgie! Different views are always complementary.

Taken from HWW's link:



I think the reason Glorith couldn't replace the Time Trapper on a thematic /danger level, in my book at least, is that there's no sense of mystery about her. The Time Trapper was always an enigma, a force that the Legionnaires and, by extension the audience, could never fully comprehend. For many years, we didn't even know who was under the hood and that made the Time Trapper seem scarier as a villain. With Glorith, on the other hand, she's too much of a cackling, over the top villainess that doesn't elicit the same kind of fear.

I remember reading LSH v4 #5 out of order while building my v4 collection twenty years ago and finding it rather forgettable without the context of what it was trying to do. A one-off tale? Likely of no consequence!

Boy, was I wrong. Since reading it as an adult and with the entire TMK run as perspective, it's actually a really riveting tale and a novel way to establish the new universe order if the Super-family was no longer viable. HWW covers a lot of it in his well done review, but it really is quite a feat when you consider all this issue accomplishes in the pages it has.

The use of Andrew Nolan is a treat and always made me wonder what Ferro Lad would have been like had he survived and led a long career as a Legionnaire going into TMK.

Which as I read that it occurs to me that in Math oddly enough, "complementary" would seem to mean the reviews cover exactly none of the same ground and have almost an opposite sense. Might be a lesson plan in there somewhere. I'll have to check my definitions because I don't feel I'm right in that feeling but my mind isn't coming up with the words I'll need to explain it.


Anyhow

#5 WOW! What a masterpiece. Brilliant on so many levels, not the least of which would be the 4th world level. Brilliantly set-up and brilliantly followed. Visually stunning as well. This is the one book I cannot imagine drawn any other way. Giffen's style worked here. It is one of the very few issues of any comic I can see panels in my head. Gordan's cover, inspired.

I find new in every re-read.

In the long-term, you're probably right. I think she works quite well in this one story, however.

This is one book that, for me, is much better on the re-read. Didn't know where it was going, if we'd stay in the Mordruverse or a similar timeline under Glorith.

I thought it was interesting that the good guys and bad guys were balanced trios: the leader, the muscle and the witchy woman on each side.

It really was very compelling to not see Mordru until the very end, but to feel his presence throughout.

I've also wondered where the series might have gone if Rond had become the new Time Trapper. Perhaps he understood that absolute power corrupts absolutely and chose to eliminate his timeline rather than fall prey to that power.

Legion of Super-heroes (1989) #6



Writer: Keith Giffen, Tom Bierbaum, Mary Bierbaum
Pencils: Keith Giffen
Ink: Al Gordon
Color: Tom McGraw
Editor: Mark Waid

Grade: B+

Summary: We open to what appears to be the original universe from before issue #5. Dirk Morgna is in a sleazy club talking to a detective named Celeste Rockfish. He’s trying to get her to find Roxxas and bring him in for the murder of Blok as part of an Earthgov sponsored investigation. Meanwhile, Circe and a Dominator are spying on Dirk’s conversation. The Dominator reveals that Celeste’s investigation is a means to keep the Daily Planet off their heels. On the planet Tharn, Mordru receives word from one of his servants that Reep and the others are there. While Reep, Rokk, and Jo are planning how to get Mysa back from Mordru, Kono is out exploring. Reep chews out Kono for running around on her own, but she sasses him back and leaves to visit Furball. While the two are talking, Furball suddenly breaks out in a fit of rage and a bright light envelops the room. What follows is each character experiencing a nightmare flashback to a moment in their lives:

Kono sees the Rimbor police destroying her home and attempting to rape her and her mother
Reep is on Durla and is forced to fight his brother, Liggt, in a duel to the death as part of a rite of passage
Jo finds himself in the space whale that swallowed him and gave him his powers, where he stumbles upon the body of Tinya Wazzo aka Phantom Girl, his late wife
Rokk is at Venado Bay during the Braal-Imsk war where he finds the body of Pol Krinn, his brother, who was killed during the Magic Wars
Furball sees the doctors reporting on his condition after his body deteriorated into his current form, giving us our confirmation that Furball is indeed Brin Londo aka Timber Wolf

In Mordru’s pleasure gardens, Mysa is experiencing all of these flashbacks at the same time and is in great pain. One of the other women in the harem chews her out for complaining too much. At a clothing store elsewhere, Roxxas is buying new clothes. Back on Earth, Celeste and a cub report at the Daily Planet, Deviln O’Ryan, are trying to get a ship to Trom to investigate Roxxas, but aren’t able to secure one. Back on Tharn, Vyrkos, Mordru’s right hand man, takes the bodies of the Legionnaires to the dungeon, except for Rokk who Mordru has taken an interest in. On Jezebel’s moon of Tharn, a mysterious blonde woman who bears a striking resemblance to lost Legionnaire flies to Tharn. Back with Celeste and Devlin, they are eventually able to get a ship to Trom and bring along a bounty hunter named Bounty with them to track Roxxas. While on Trom, Devlin is listening to a tape on the history of Trom and Element Lad, but laments that it doesn’t give him any information. Celeste tells him not to touch any of the monuments on Trom as Element Lad will vaporize them if they do. Just as she says that, a voice laughs at her claim and they turn around to find Jan Arrah aka Element Lad standing behind them.

Thoughts: After issue #5 gave us a break from the erratic storytelling of the previous issue, TMK bring it back full force in this issue. We’re finally beginning to see some development with the Mordru subplot that started back in issue #3. I find it strange that Mysa would ever willingly live with Mordru, especially as a member of his harem of wives. I guess that ties back into my earlier confusion as to why Mordru is a villain again in the first place. What’s odd is that Mekt Ranzz aka Lightning Lord is now a reformed super villain working with his siblings, who he had sworn to kill for years. Oh well, thats’s comic books for you.

The use of flashbacks in this issue is done remarkably well. It’s yet another instance of ‘showing, not telling’ that gives the reader the satisfaction of linking the clues together to get what the writers are putting across. The reveal of Furball’s true identity is handled fantastically, as we only see the words “Brin Londo” in the very last panel of that page, letting only longtime fans of the Legion pick up on what’s happening in that moment. For me, the flashback that works the best is Rokk’s.



His line “They killed Cosmic Boy at Venado Bay” encapsulates the entire theme of this run. This is no longer the Legion of kids who grew up with goofy nicknames and a optimistic, if almost native view of the world. Rokk is an adult now and must face the fact that the world is no longer as black and white as he once thought. By forcing him to face the brutal realities of war and politics, Rokk now realizes that Cosmic Boy is as much a symbol as it is his own identity. The Legion stood for the hope and peace, something the universe needs now more than ever.

This issue also gives us our introduction to two new characters for the team: Laurel Gand and Jan Arrah. I wonder what long-time fans thought when they saw Laurel for the first time. Did they think that they were finally get Supergirl back in the Legion? Were some cynical and knew something else was happening? Either way, though our introduction to the character is brief, it’s exciting and is short enough that we’re left hungry for answers as to who she is. Jan’s introduction is even shorter than Laurel’s, but I would argue that it’s just as effective, if not more. From the way Devlin and Celeste speak of Jan, he’s become almost an urban legend in the Legion’s absence. Everyone is afraid of him, but they aren’t sure why. I think this is a bit of play on the nature of Trommite powers, where they can either be used for great good or terrible evil. As such, the few who have met Jan may put their own spin on the story and it only gets more ridiculous over time as rumors/legends often do. Jan seems to have become a shaman/nomad since he left the team which is a very interesting archetype for the character to play. Jan was always a bit more reserved, introverted than most of the other Legionnaires back in the day and I think this run does a very good job of exploring just how Jan’s Trommite upbringing made him the man he is today.

Hey... The 5YL Legion gave us Laurel Gand / Andromeda (or, at least, the first incarnation of her) so, for that reason alone, I'll remain fond of it.

The most charitable thing I can say about the 5YL Legion is that I applaud its ambition and its scope, but its execution was, except for the promising first few issues, repulsive to me. I know there was a lot of behind-the-scenes drama, and I think it shows in the messy, sluggish final product. And anything about it I regard as positive comes with a caveat (example: I liked the re-imagining of the Dark Circle, BUT I detested having Tellus join the Dark Circle.) And I can't read TMK's minds, but it seemed to me there were a lot of moments calculated to make fans of the post-Adventure Legion cringe, as well as some inept explorations of sensitive issues.

That's why I don't like this iteration of the Legion.

I hope you'll still chime in with your thoughts, Fanfie. Even criticisms can still bring out interesting discussion.

I just might. Thanks, Stalgie.

That Mysa was one of a harem of Mordru's wives really struck me as strange - or cringe-worthy. Although her psychological decline was explained, it really sat poorly with me. She had started out as a shy, uncertain person and developed assurance and mastery in her time with the Legion. I guess the best we can say is that Mordru was the greater power and she succumbed to his manipulations.

Jan Arrah, however, was masterfully done, as far as I was concerned. He was at peace with his role as guardian of Trom's fallen yet did not hesitate to join the hunt for Roxxas. As we'll see later, he came full circle on how he dealt with that mass murderer. Jan's character followed a logical progression of maturity and developing spirituality from the pre-5YL stories. It was effective to have him regarded as an urban legend.

You make a good point that the flashbacks were a succinct way of filling in the backstories and were well done. I wonder if it's that flashback that was the true turning point for Rokk to assume leadership of the renewed team.

I always kinda liked the Legion but never really *loved* it until 5YL...I think having a vague familiarity with the Legion of Superheroes without being particularly attached to any of them helped with this volume. It meant that massive changes and upheaval didn't bother me as much as it most likely would have if I had a strong pre-conceived idea of who "my" Legion should be and how they should act.

I guess as a comparison/contrast - the Avengers were always my favourite superhero team growing up, and when Avengers Disassembled happened & Bendis took the book in a radically different direction I was so disenchanted with the whole thing that I stopped reading any Avengers books for years. I feel like I probably would have had a similar reaction if the Legion had been my "Avengers" growing up.

I loved having to piece together who all these characters were though and all the world-building that went into this series. The text pieces really added extra layers to the world and felt like a reward for putting the effort in. The gaming sourcebook that came out around the same time had so much awesome character-building stuff in it, I would love to have a copy of that again! It was really 5YL that made me love the Legion as much as I do now and sowed the seeds for me to want to read as much of their old stuff as I could.

To get back up to date on topic....I can definitely see how Mysa's fate would rub someone the wrong way. I found it immensely uncomfortable and later on when I had more of an idea of Mysa's history, I found it really tragic...but I also felt that it was unfortunately a pretty realistic depiction of an abused spouse. While I would find that inappropriate for the more simplistic world the Legion traditionally live in, taking it at face value I didn't think it was out of place in the world of 5YL.

One of the things that most frustrates me about TMK is that I feel they were reactionaries in progressives' clothing. To stretch the Avengers analogy further, it's as though they were trying to be Bendis and Busiek at the same time, trying to be daring and experimental AND trying to take the Legion "back to basics" (a term I despise; I should add I'm not a fan of either the Bendis or the Busiek versions of the Avengers.) TMK's naive fetish for the Adventure era as some kind of godhead, along with their contemptuous treatment of post-Adventure era characters like Wildfire, Dawnstar, and Blok, did not sit well with me at all.

I can understand some of the frustration there, Fanfie. It does seem rather regressive to push the newer (and still very popular) characters to the side to bring back the old guard simply because the writers preferred them. That being said, I think that focusing on the Adventure era Legionnaires was also one of the run's strengths. These were the Legionnaires who had built the Legion into what it was, had been there since its earliest days. I think having them rebuild the Legion after it had fallen apart brought their story full circle.

Pushing characters aside is one thing.

Metaphorically defecating on them is a whole other thing.

When DnA took over the Postboot Legion, they wrote out the characters they had no interest in with a minimum of fuss and no disrepect. That's one of the reasons I far prefer (early) DnA to TMK.

Oh, when the defecating happens, you'll get to see the full extent of my (passive-aggressive) rage.

Good.

Long as Stalgie has given me the OK to criticize freely, I thought I might as well add a couple things to what's been said already:

#3. Another DnA/TMK comparison-contrast: DnA killed Monstress, who, under their predecessors, had been a rather shallow and saccharine character; DnA gave her depth and showed us that her good cheer came from a lifetime of pain and a sympathy for the downtrodden -- they made us finally care about Monstress, then killed her off in a way that I think was powerful but not gratuitous. All this as opposed to TMK, who carry out their killing of Blok with a dismissive shrug, not giving his detractors any reason to care for him before it becomes too late, and not reminding his fans (I am one) why they loved him.

#4. I think Mon-El should have stayed dead, and Tasmia should have moved on. By having Tasmia spend years in isolated (and presumably permanent, had he not returned to life) mourning, TMK do her a great disservice, especially considering that she was arguably one of the worst-characterized Legionnaires during the Levitz era (alternately catty and clingy), and the death of Mon-El should have been an opportunity for her to better define herself. Last year, I wrote a Tasmia fanfic I'm very proud of, taking place right after Mon-El's death, where one of her ancestors shows her three possible alternate scenarios of how her life might have gone differently. If anyone's interested in reading it, send me a PM. For those who'd prefer a summary, here it is, in a spoiler box:

A problem I have with the issue that I forgot to mention in my original review is that barely any time is spent on Lar and Tasmia's reunion. She spent five years mourning him, but the issue only gives them one page to catch up before they're off to see Brainy to get Mon-El checked up. I know TMK were under strict deadlines and regulations because of their problems with the Superman team, but an event of such importance really should have been explored more!

That it wasn't explored makes me wonder if they even cared about Tasmia's relationship with Mon-El in the first place. Not for nothing is the cover all-Mon-El.

Tom Bierbaum's thoughts on Tasmia here:

http://itsokimasenator.livejournal.com/24316.html

Thanks, but no thanks. I don't intend to read that. I think TB is a liar.

Thanks for the link Stalgie. I never read that before. Interesting stuff.

You're welcome, Nighty.

I think I'll add the link to Tom's blog at the beginning of the thread for people to reference.

I don't think it would be inappropriate to mention that the 5YL Legion had a sister book, L.E.G.I.O.N., co-created by Giffen with Alan Grant and Barry Kitson, and launched just eight months before 5YL. It took place in the present day, focusing on a team of galactic law enforcers, formed during the "Invasion!" event and led by Brainy's Machiavellian ancestor, Vril Dox II.

I liked L.E.G.I.O.N. much better than 5YL. Part of it, I'm sure, is that Giffen exited L.E.G.I.O.N. after the first year, just as the book was starting to come apart at the seams. IMO, Alan Grant & Barry Kitson rescued L.E.G.I.O.N. from oblivion and turned it into one of the best books DC has ever published. The dark humor was more in sync with my sense of humor, the pace rarely let up, action was plentiful, and the characters had plenty of shades of grey without being muddled.

As I've said in the past, my introduction to the DC Universe was the "Armageddon 2001" event, of which L.E.G.I.O.N. Annual #2, written by Alan Grant and drawn by a young Mike McKone, was the crown jewel among the tie-ins. Meanwhile, at the same time, the 5YL Legion was trudging its way through "The Quiet Darkness", and I gave up on it a few issues later, after the S. Erin fiasco. But I stayed loyal to L.E.G.I.O.N. up through issue #51. So without L.E.G.I.O.N., I might never have become a fan of the 30th Century Legion.

I could never get tired of re-reading either of these. Dox MADE the Brainiac line what it is, IMO. They absolutely NAILED that character. I'd be afraid of anyone that could even write such a manipulative character so realistically and unpredictable. He was always steps ahead of me. Oh and when he got "fanfied," didn't see THAT coming.


So many terrific NEW characters, just an amazing job and merging in the tragic Phantom Girl story. I got too involved in that one.

I enjoyed reading Tom Bierbaum's thoughts on Shady, too, especially why she wore skimpy costumes and switched her attraction from Brainy to Mon-El.

Regarding the latter, I had always assumed Brainy was not responsive. He was still in love with Supergirl, after all. The reasons why she picked Mon, in Tom's view, make more sense to me.

I also understand his reasons for marginalizing Shady. As a "latecomer" along with Brin and Condo, he was not as attached to her as he was to the more established Legionnaires, and she didn't seem like a "real person" or someone he could relate to on a personal level, at least not initially. I felt much the same way about Drake, Tyroc, and Dawny, at first. They were not "real" Legionnaires. ("Real" in my young mind meant those Legionnaires who were already part of the team when I first discovered them.) Of course, I eventually grew to accept them much as Tom had grown to accept and understand Shady.

Another comment he makes also strikes me as genuine. When he says that Shady and Condo wore pedestrian costumes, he is absolutely correct. Their Silver Age costumes were quite boring. (One might argue that with blue skin, Shady didn't need an eye-catching costume, but still.) For a young reader, such superficial considerations are important, and they can form a lasting impression of the character.

Now I'm REALLY glad I didn't read it! Did TB read the same story which introduced her in Adv 365-366 as I did?? Cause it sure as hell doesn't seem that way to me! Not a "real person", give me a freakin' break!

See, this is just what I was afraid would happen when Stalgie encouraged me to post critiques in this thread. There is just something about both the 5YL and its principal creators that really pushes my buttons and brings out the madwoman in me.

Tom says he discovered the Legion in 1972 (the same year I did, ironically), so he didn't read those issues until much later.

Well, that at least partly clears it up. Thanks, He Who.

Tasmia was consistently marginalized after her inital flurry of appearances during the Adventure era. I still hold on to my theory that it had to do with how badly she came off during the Mordru story. Don't get me wrong, it's a good story, but I think she came off very badly in it. No one seemed to have a real interest in her, not even Levitz, who, like I said, I think gave her one of his worst interpretations of any Legionnaire. And when she finally started getting interesting again during the post-Trapper/pre-Magic Wars phase of the Baxter era, Levitz seemed to quickly lose interest in her to the point of abruptly leaving her subplot hanging unfinished. But before that, she touched greatness with Baxter #56, which was one of the first Legion back issues I ever bought (and at the time, it was purely because Eduardo Barreto guest-pencilled it) and made me a fan of hers for life. So, yeah, it does bother me that TMK didn't see the same potential in her that I did.

All authors are liars. Especially when asked about where they get their ideas from.

In fact, all forms of art entertainment are, at root, lying with style.

Yes, but there are good liars and bad liars.

A Short Mediation on Death and Super-Heroes

“Kill Your Darlings” is the famous advice to writers: that is, be brutal in your editing, and get rid of those sentences, paragraphs, and ideas that are just too precious.

Comic book writers generally seem to want to literally kill everybody else’s darlings. There is a terrible danger in introducing a new character into a long-running comic book series: namely, that the next author will casually off them, or simply retconn them out of existence.

My issues with comic book deaths are manifold.

Death for Shock Value. It has worked in the past. Less and less effective as time goes on. They always come back.

The Darwin Problem. In X-Men First Class, Darwin, whose ability is to adapt to any threat, is killed because he could not adapt to a threat: that is, he is killed in a manner in which he specifically ought not to be able to be killed. I use this as the iconic example, although the problem existed before. Superman is beaten to death by Doomsday, when he has classically possessed the sort of invulnerability that would specifically prevent him from being beaten to death. Blok, who can absorb and deflect energy, is killed with some sort of energy grenade.

Joss Whedon skillfully avoided this problem once in Buffy: The Vampire Slayer. Tara the Sorceress is killed not by vampires or demons or magic, against which she and Willow have powerful defenses, but by a stray mundane bullet. Her death seems senseless, but that was the point.

Death As The Fundamental Motivation for the Character: Krypton destroyed. Batman’s parents killed. Uncle Ben. Hal Jordan’s father. Women in refridgerators. Spoiler Alert: in the real world, everybody dies. If you are permanently psychologically scarred by the death of a loved one at what you perceive as the ‘wrong’ time, then you already had a serious saving-people-problem to begin with.

Basically, my objections to Character Death in the comics always comes down to: Failure of Imagination. What could possibly motivate a character you do not like to participate in the story you are writing? Oh, only Death. Ha. Consider Matter-Eater Lad. He didn’t have to die to leave the Legion: he was drafted in to the Bismollian Senate.

(Incidentally, as far as I have been able to determine, we have never, in all the multiple incarnations of the Legion, seen Matter-Eater Lad die. This makes him pretty exceptional as a Legionnaire. Even in the mass extinctions of the Legionnaires, such as Blok’s betrayal, or the Mask Man fiasco, Tenzil is not present. Only with the entire annihilation of the Universe- which really happens more often at DC that is strictly necessary- can we imply his demise. When Matter-Eater Lad dies, the Universe dies.)

Great thoughts, Klar.

You have an interesting way of putting it: comic book writers like to kill other writers' darlings. (Giffen is the archetype of this.) It's almost the reverse of what constitutes good writing. The "Kill your darlings" rule, often attributed to Stephen King, is meant to teach writers to be economical in their work, to not get attached to what they've written, and to sacrifice anything to make a better story.

Comic book deaths are the opposite of the all that. They are rarely economical. That is, they overall story line is seldom improved by the character's removal. They show that the writers are indeed attached to the characters, albeit in a negative way. And nothing is sacrificed if the character eventually comes back.

I wonder if we had been given a hint that Wildfire was still alive, but the Legionnaires just didn't know it, would have changed the story for the better? It would have been even more tragic and have been a good cliff-hanger.

The death thing in comics has become a joke, how characters almost always come back, or a particular writer just kills a character he doesn't like (supposedly cackling with mad glee). However, I think there is room in the Legion, and other superhero stories, for death: it's a dangerous business and somebody is bound to be outmatched or slip up on occasion.



Says a lot for the eat-anything diet!

Matter-Eater Lad has sometimes been written seriously and sometimes maligned. It is a silly-inducing power, but it brings to mind that some writers will denigrate a character they dislike. This might also be evidence of a lack of imagination and raises Klar Ken's question of why use a character you don't like?

On #5

I was going to peek at #5 again, but peeked at #3

I still think the first page, where Mordru is peeking at all the Legion, is a bit clunky. Considering the slow reveal and peeks of the first two issues, it’s a huge info dump. Admittedly, it does show the Sorcerer’s paranoia over the team that has repeatedly defeated him. And yes, that does provide the writers with the opportunity to keep us up to date with a number of characters. And yes, it provides some early links to subplots such as the Ranzz child and the locations of Dox and Arrah in particular. But I still have that feeling.

The Ayla/ Vi scene by the statues is excellent.

While I’m not dealing with #5 I meant to mention that I also feel the initial idea of #4 didn’t necessarily add to the overall main point of the first Legion arc. With Lar dead from the Baxter run, was there any need to have him come back? I think TMK were going to kill him off again at the end of the issue. There’s the implication of the Ranzz reveal, but I wouldn’t have picked up on that at the time. So, it’s a bit much to pin an issue on. It’s the Editor War that adds more meaning to the rest of the run.

Which does bring me onto #5.

Considering the ideas for this would have been created somewhere in the middle of the plotting of #4, it’s an impressive issue. Mordru’s first appearance was terrifying and we’ were told of his conquest on other worlds. Now, we see what would have happened, not if he had managed to overcome the Legion, but if there never was a Legion to oppose him.

This issue has been, possibly fortuitously, foreshadowed by Mordru’s earlier appearances in the run. The team were going to go after Mysa anyway. But this has shown the reader his, still impressive, power in a much weakened state. The fear of Mordru is enough to provide motivation for everyone in this world. We don’t have to see him. The peak at the end just shows the power that the likes of Mordru and the Trapper have at their disposal. What they are fighting to possess.

The sense of oppression and almost religious persecution is clear from the first page. News of the missing, including Legionnaires , a glimpse of a broken Bannin is offset by the hope that sight of Nolan instils. There are realistic levels of heroism throughout. Mysa knows what she’s risking more than anyone. Nolan has a family, but attacks a dangerous version of Mano to protect her.

The cast are very well chosen, and also link well with the run. Rond, who had been due to be bumped off not long before, is suddenly a key player. Mysa’s role and appearance links our last sighting of her with what is to come. Nolan’s heroism reminds me very much of the alternate worlds of #300. Both he and his brother were heroes there too.

I could go on about all the little Easter eggs, none of which got in the way of reading a story that’s strong on its own merits.

The switch between Tinya and the Durlan would end up being a really pivotal Legion moment. It would end up giving much more depth to the Legion’s origin and provide us with characterisation and subplots for this run through Jo and Glorith.

To have all that, and see the structure of the world to come is an impressive feat. The inspiration, the Daxamite strength, the financier. But Vidar has been collecting tales and relying on magic. The fragments we see in his hands and in Mysa’s retelling of the dream are paid off at the end. “Many of the original pieces—gone…so we make our own and pray they serve their purpose.”

Vidar wants to have this old world back. But he’s as much driven by his thirst for knowledge and desire to pursue that away from Mordru. He’s prepared to lie to Glorith and sacrifice her to reach his goals.

Considering the number of reboots we’ve had across comics companies since, I’m struggling to think of a better one than this.

I don't think so. That last panel, with his empty costume, is just so powerful that anything added to it--even dialogue--would detract from it.



True, and the formerly permanent deaths of Bucky Barnes, Ferro Lad, and Invisible Kid illustrated that danger quite effectively.



I suspect that a lot writers are working out their own ego-gratification problems. If you kill off a character, it makes you powerful. If you kill off a beloved character and fans hate you for it, it gives you a sense of godawful superiority! (Read some of Giffen's interviews. He sounds so condescending when he explains why he kills off Karate Kid because "super-karate" is a stupid power.)

One of the rocks and hard places of writing a continuing series I suppose. I wouldn't expect anyone to like all the characters they are tasked with writing. And how bland would every character end up being after many writers have added their own diversity. All marriages of diversity ultimately tend to the same color to carry an analogy. The other option, making a character PERSONALBY "likable" could still violate the originator's intent with the character but it could also add to the legend of the character.


Who draws the lines?

I put this on the editors and publishers, not the writers. Writers are charged with using their imaginations, their heart. How much story gets lost if the writer is continually doing self-checks on the "bigger" picture? It's the editors charged with the bigger picture. An editor would have well in their power to curb a writer who seems to have personalized an agenda against a fictional character not of their own creation.

my bad. movies now been out three months now. dvd not out for another month. fixed my post.

Movies, theater, $$$


But I think I can connect it to my thoughts on what we can expect from a writer on a continuing series. TV shows have different writers AND directors from episode to episode. The responsibility for continuity is on the overall production, not the individual creators. The writers didn't kill your favorite character. The producers did.


"The Darwin Problem"



Doesn't the name indicate it actually isn't a problem? Do we want writers to ignore "Darwinism?" I'm the fastest gun in the west, until I'm not. I may be fastest and go looking to prove it, looking for tougher and tougher challenges. That's normal behavior. Then one day, I'm not fastest anymore. Either I slowed or I came upon someone faster.


Or

My reputation gets out. Someone actively decides they want the title. I don't know they're out there. I don't know what standard they are laying, until they finally come for me. Darwin will choose one of us. I may still be fastest, but not on this day.

Or

I could trip and hit my head.


As a nine year old comic book reader, Superman being "invulnerable" (except for certain cases) meant he couldn't be beaten by a physical pounding. But I was nine. Doomsday beating Superman to death didn't change canon. It respected the meaning of meanings: they change. "Invulnerable" never meant he couldn't be beaten by a physical pounding. It meant he had never met the physical pounding that could beat him. And thank goodness because if it meant the former, we'd have a much smaller library of good stories or one less picture inducing adjective in which to describe being tough.

I'm not sure if this has been posted before, but here's a pretty cool fan-made issue by issue timeline that would fill in the gap between the Magic Wars and the first issue of the 5YL. A lot of the ideas here are really interesting and I wish they had made it to print in some capacity.

http://www.readersadvice.com/lsh/levitz.html

I've seen this timeline before. It is quite a fascinating and thorough interpretation of how the "in-between" issues might have played out.

EDIT: I really love author Don Sakers' explanation for the insertion of Laurel Gand into the Legion's story. It can be found in his entry for "Annual #5."

Wow that timeline is amazing! What a great job!

I've read the timeline before, and it's amazing. I love how the Gap only Legionnaires like Nightwind are given their day in the sun too. Thanks for sharing it again.

I also echo HWW's comment that Laurel's introduction was masterfully done. And the way the author described the slow dissolution of the Legion was so poignant I shed a tear when they disbanded.

Legion of Super-heroes (1989) #7



Writer: Keith Giffen, Tom Bierbaum, Mary Bierbaum
Pencils: Keith Giffen
Ink: Al Gordon
Color: Tom McGraw
Editor: Mike Eury

Grade: B-

Summary: On Tharn, the vampiric Vyrkos is deciding what to do with the captured Legionnaires. Suddenly, Laurel Gand bursts in and the two engage in a lengthy brawl. Rokk wakes up to find that he’s having dinner with Mordru and is forced to play the situation as best as he can for Mysa’s freedom. The other Legionnaires also wake up and find themselves dressed in strange pajamas and they reconvene to figure out what happened to them. The other Legionnaires join Laurel in the fight against Vyrkos. Back at the dinner, Mordru reveals to Rokk that he also had Rond captive as well. However, he isn’t in a position to stop them from taking Rond and Mysa as his powers aren’t at their full capacity at the moment. Back with the fight, Mysa eventually uses her powers to disintegrate Vyrkos in a ray of light. As the Legionnaires leave, Mordru takes solace in the fact that this won’t be the last time he fights the Legionnaires and that he will have Mysa again. In space, Celeste, Deviln, Bounty, and Jan are on the way to Winath for Blok’s funeral. Devlin laments how he’s breaking a promise to his boss by taking this detour, but Bounty says only he was the one to make a promise. Celeste tells Jan that going to Winath may be useful to the investigation, but Jan says that the funeral is more important and paying his respects is the least he can do. As they fly to Winath, a research station notes the green energy emitted by the shuttle.

Thoughts: This issue can basically be summarized as one giant fight scene and one I don’t particularly care for. Vyrkos is an interesting character visually, but is rather bland from a personality and motivational standpoint. Laurel Gand is also an empty vessel at this point, since her backstory and personality wouldn’t be fleshed out until subsequent issues. I’ve said before that Giffen’s new pencilling style and use of the nine panel grid wasn’t conducive to crafting high tension fight scenes and this is one instance of it not offering anything particularly compelling.

Where the issue does manage to capture my attention, however, is the secondary plot of Rokk and Mordru’s dinner. Fans and writers have often said that Rokk is the rock (pardon the pun) of the team and the leader who can pull them through the toughest of situations. With this issue, TMK finally show us just that. Even in the face of an immortal sorcerer and without any powers of his own, Rokk is able to stay in control of his fear and play out the situation as best as he can. This issue offers some great characterization for Rokk and displays his true strengths as a strategist in the face of tough odds.

I would be remiss in not mentioning that this issue also marks Mark Waid’s last issue as editor of the book. From thoth lad’s thread spotlighting the 5YL Legion in Amazing Heroes, Waid mentions that he urged the Bierbaums to focus on the Adventure era Legionnaires over the newcomers like Dawnstar and Wildfire. Did Waid’s departure affect the overall direction of the book once he left? Was he a huge part of what made those early issues so special? It makes me wonder what direction the book would have gone if he had stayed on it longer.

That dinner with Modru was the highlight of the book and cemented the idea of Rokk Krinn as the quintessential leader. Calm, cool and collected in the face of overwhelming odds - not many people could match wits with Mordru.

The fight scenes usually bore me and you raise a good point that the 9-panel grid doesn't do any fight justice.

There are some interesting set-ups for future stories: the green light, Laurel trying to rescue Rond - I remember being a bit confused about why she was so broken up that she hadn't come for him earlier, not being aware yet of their relationship.

There's also Jan's priorities shift from seeking justice to paying respects to the dead; I hadn't picked up on that until you pointed it out here. It's a good insight into his character, accomplished with a simple panel.

Legion of Super-heroes (1989) #8



Writer: Keith Giffen, Tom Bierbaum, Mary Bierbaum
Pencils: Keith Giffen, Chris Sprouse
Ink: Al Gordon
Color: Tom McGraw
Editor: Mike Eury

Grade: B+

Summary: The issue opens at Brande Industry Headquarters where Marla Latham receives a communication from Reep about their retrieval of Mysa and Rond from Mordru. After hearing the news, Marla flashes back to when he and R.J. Brande first met. While working at his job, Marla hears a commotion and finds other workers beating up a Durlan traveler. He intervenes and gets into the brawl himself, getting pretty banged up in the process. He is able to deactivate a forcefield holding the Durlan back from using his powers and the Durlan shape shifts and takes out the thugs. Marla takes the Durlan to another Durlan friend of his, Theg, to learn more about him. The two Durlans speak and Theg is surprised to find that the mystery Durlan speaks a Durlan dialect that was thought to be extinct and that the mystery Durlan has amnesia. Theg smuggles the mystery Durlan back to Durla, but find that they can’t leave afterwards. The mystery Durlan, revealed to be R.J., mates with Theg’s sister and has two kids, Reep and Liggt. Unfortunately, she passes away from Yorggian Fever that Theg unwittingly brought with him to Durla. R.J. leaves his two sons with another sister of Theg’s and the two Durlans depart to find a way off the planet. The two find a way to leave and become entrepreneurs, working hard to build Brande Industries. Meanwhile, Marla has become a married man and is working on his same company, though as a supervisor. One day, R.J. comes to offer him a job working for him to take over some duties for Theg, who is operating under the alias Doyle. Doyle has become a sleazy party animal and is blowing all his profits while ignoring his duties to the company. Eventually, Marla and R.J. realize they need to buy him out of the company, which he greedily accepts. However, Doyle quickly blows all his money and keeps asking R.J. for more, even going so far to threaten his life. However, R.J. doesn’t seem to care and instead focuses on his collection of 20th century superhero memorabilia and Titan memory treatments to retrieve his lost memories. One day, while on a shuttle, R.J. is assaulted by some thugs who try to take his life, but he is saved by three youths: the soon to be founding Legionnaires. R.J., inspired by their bravery, decides to form his own team of youth superheroes. Though they have a rocky start, the three founding Legionnaires quickly come into their own and their reputation grows across the galaxy, inspiring other teens to try out and join the Legion, such as Phantom Girl and Triplicate Girl. Eventually, Marla suggests bringing in a Durlan Legionnaire to improve the team’s PR as a way to combat Durlan prejudice. R.J. says he has the perfect candidate, which turns out to be his estranged son, Reep. Marla interviews Reep and Reep joins the Legion. Marla thinks that Reep reminds him of that mystery Durlan he met so long ago and wonders if they’re connected. This ends the flashback portion of the story and we’re back in present day. Rokk, Rond, and Laurel are on Zirr, where Laurel is fighting of some Khunds who attempted to ambush the trio. Laurel defeats them with ease and takes them to her and Rond’s home. Rock discovers that the two of them had a child together and is shocked.

Thoughts: While this issue is almost entirely flashbacks without any current development, it is yet another example of the team utilizing continuity revisionism that was forced on them to tell a good story. Telling the story through the eyes of a minor supporting character is creative way to engage the reader as it makes the Legionnaires and Brande seem larger than life, almost mythic figures that Marla looks up to. I think that this is a great context to put those characters in as the entire point of this run was to make that Legion the white knights who would save the galaxy once again after having fallen from grace in the past.

The retcon of R.J. Brande actually being from the 20th century is a bit of a double edged sword in my opinion. On one hand, I can understand the pressures TMK were under to rewrite the Legion mythos as Superboy no longer existed in the DCU and Valor (Mon El) had taken his place as the R.J. Brande inspiration to create the Legion so I applaud them for making the best out of what they’re giving. On the other hand, it’s yet another instance of how tying too many bits of continuity together can ultimately make the universe seem much smaller and less organically formed as everything just seems to coincidentally be related.

Chris Sprouse provides the majority of the art for this issue and it’s jarring to see the switch from his work to Giffen’s at the end of the issue. It works here since Sprouse provides the artwork for the flashbacks and Giffen provides the current story artwork so you have a visual dichotomy between the past and present, which is what the story was about. Unfortunately, this “too many artists in the kitchen” trend will continue into the later issues in this run and it won’t be as appropriate in my opinion.

Legion of Super-heroes (1989) #9



Laurel’s Story
Writer: Keith Giffen, Tom Bierbaum, Mary Bierbaum
Pencils: Keith Giffen, Paris Cullins
Ink: Bob Lewis
Color: Tom McGraw
Editor: Mike Eury

Grade: C+

Summary: The issue opens on an intergalactic library where Roxxas is checking out a “holo” about Laurel Gand which is narrated by Laurel herself. Laurel reveals that she didn’t grow up on Daxam itself, but on Ricklef II, an asteroid city. One day, Khund invaders under the lead of Zaryan, the Khund conqueror, attack the base and kill her parents. However, Laurel has knowledge of how the base is run and uses the computer system to override the main control and destroy the entire Khund fleet. She is rewarded for her bravery, but Zaryan survives and looks for her to take his revenge. After an attempt on her life by Khund assassins, Eltro Gand, Laurel’s cousin who she is staying with, recommends that she go underground to avoid them. She goes to live in an orphanage on Earth. She is visited by Saturn Girl, Phantom Girl, and Triad, who offer her membership in the Legion. Laurel tries out and is accepted into the Legion, though she has to have her lead poisoning cured by Brainiac 5. One of her first missions is to bring in Doyle, R.J. Brande’s “cousin” for attempting to take Brande’s life. Laurel captures Doyle and the two seem to fall in love. The holo ends and Roxxas is about to leave when he sees a wanted ad for him put out by Earthgov. Roxxas is outraged to find that his employers went behind his back and put a bounty on him. Meanwhile, we see that the green light is still being tracked by scientists. Roxanne then heads to Winath to attack the Legionnaires during Blok’s funeral. On Winath, Salu is distressed because she knows Rokk will be coming to the funeral and she doesn’t know how she is going to face him.

Thoughts: This was a pretty mediocre issue overall, perhaps the first real sign in this run that the internal politics at DC were beginning to take a toll on TMK. While Giffen and the Bierbams were adept at making the best out of the retcons handed to them (see issues #5 and #8 for that), this is just a really bland story. Laurel Gand, while a well written character later in the run, just doesn’t spark the same interest in me as a reader as Supergirl did, not helped by the fact that her entire backstory is near carbon copy of Supergirl’s but without any kind of Silver Age fun.

Paris Cullins’ pencils are not my cup of tea and they almost feel like they let out of a completely different comic. The exaggerated cheekbones and elongated faces contrasty heavily with Giffen’s Kirby-esque block heads so the transition is a bit jarring. I really wish Giffen was doing complete art duties for the book again.

I do really like the way the Roxxas subplot is developing. Having Earthgov sell him out to cover their own butts is a pretty clever twist and his raving reaction to it is just priceless.

IMO one of this run's real weaknesses was the creative team's need to "retell" previous stories to show readers how the forced retcons fit within original continuity rather than continuing uninterrupted with the new story Giffen wanted to tell. In hindsight it might have been better to let the fans fill in the blanks on their own.

That's a good point, Rob, though I don't know if I place all that blame on TMK's shoulders. The aggression from the Superman office was really tying their hands behind their backs and forcing them to explain all of the continuity for the readers. I doubt the subsequent stories would have had as much impact or made as much sense if we weren't given a proper explanation for characters like Laurel Gand and Glorith. Could the story have been written better? Yes. Should the problem be laid entirely at the feat of the writing team? No.

This was one of the weaker stories and I agree that the art didn't help. It would have been strange to just have Laurel Gand appear out of nowhere but her backstory could have been developed in a text page, which TMK often used to great effect, or given in short form in some panel flashbacks. KK may be right that editorial had a big hand in making Laurel's story a full issue and managing the
story itself.

The one good thing was that it explained why Laurel loved to bash Khunds. This singular devotion distinguished her from the original Supergirl story.

FC, I agree that the relationship with the Khunds was a good addition and would be used well in subsequent stories. On the other hand, I do find it odd that Eltro would just dump her in an orphanage instead of keeping her safe himself.

Thanks for taking on the 5YL stories, Kappa.
I had a real fondness for these stories for the first year or so, and then a real bitterness about it as the series went on. It's interesting to see everyone else's reactions too...

I totally agree about your analysis of Giffen's weird artistic commitment to the 9 panel grid. The fight scene in #7 was particularly confusing.

The high mark of the series though (at the time) was Rokk's dinner with Mordru. For me, that moment made him a great leader for me - and it's carried over in every iteration of the character since. TMK rocked the house on that one.

The retcons began as awkward and became really cumbersome. I really love what you said about the lack of "organic" development in this version of the Legion. It does lack the scope of a futuristic universe - tied ever tighter to 20th century Earth.

I found Laurel confusing at first. I knew she was a retcon, but she was such a mannequin to me. Only later would she develop real relationships, roots and personality.

Oh, and why is Mysa such a wimp? I couldn't ever get over that abuse of her character

Laurel seemed to me much less a re-do than Supergirl. Given the writing teams had to cut the cord, this seems a good character born in conflict that gave future writers something to work with other than, "Superman's cousin."

Having Roxxas to react off gave me a more fun POV than would the usual tropes of Laurel or someone close to her like Brainy telling the story through reflection. It also kept the issues flowing and connected.


If not for the "re-telling" these stories would have seemed exactly replacements redacted. Issues like this gave me a new book, different from the old. I generally enjoyed them even if in my old age they tend to blur across boots.

Oh, wow, I just found this thread, and I am so eager to go through it, being such a big fan of 5YG Legion. Thanks for posting, Kappa Kid.

Thanks, rokk!

That reminds me: I really need to get around to updating this thread at some point...

I'm secretly hoping I can get round to doing the Karate Kid reread thread first...

...I say secretly in a broad sort of way I guess, having just posted it. Crumbs you're at 9 already!

I just finished reading the entire thread, and I would certainly love to see any updates, Kappa! I am especially interested in which issue gets the A+,

Its amazing how many people seem to remember or pick up the same things... for example, many remember Rokk's dinner with Mordru as a highlight (and it is a highlight for me as well, but then Rokk is my favorite Legionnaire, and this is one of his best moments, so of course I feel that way).

I remember being entranced, sometimes mystified, and slightly horrified, at what was happening to the Legion in this book, but I mostly loved every second of it in the early goings. I felt like I was growing up at the same time as my favorite characters, because this run coincided with some big life changes of my own.

I probably hated what they did to Sun Boy more than anyone else. I felt deeply for Mysa. Hated Blok's death. And yet somehow I loved the thing in its overall scope and ambition. I prefer interesting failed ambition than boring same ole, same ole.

Yeah, this era has some of my favourite Legion moments. Even when the wheels started to come off as early as #4, it still produced some real magic.

Looking at the cover for issue 9 I can't imagine it without a mark on the right hand side, half way down. Which is where there's the mark of a biscuit I was dunking in tea fell onto my copy. We've all got heart wrenching, personal stories about our comics. That was mine

S'funny, but as I read this entire thread, I was amazed at how often I could recall exact panels (or series of panels) of the events being described. Very distinctive in my memory, in every respect.

I haven't read through all of this thread yet, but this is the series that got me into the Legion and I LOVED it! As crazy as it might sound considering all the backstory that this series is based on, but from a newbie standpoint, TMK actually did a good job of world-building for me. I knew I was missing some stuff, but it's like getting into a story where there was already a rich history and that made me more into it, rather than turning me off. The drama and emotions are all there even though I didn't know everything about their previous lives as Legionnaires. I had no expectations and didn't know that it was odd for Roxxas to be such a threat or that Jo had been portrayed as a meathead jock previously. It all still worked, even though I didn't know what "LLL" stood for at the time. I knew that these guys had been heroes and a team at one point, but they weren't anymore and that was as interesting to see unfold as it was in "Watchmen."

Ah those were the days... so many fond memories...

My five cents on this topic:

I totally loved the 5YL run and it is among the comic books that I reread the most often.
I got into it after I had not read any DC comics for about ten years cause in Germany all of the DC books had been canceled around 1984. So all this was a large puzzle to me, a post-adolescent meeting his favorite superheroes again: What had happened since LSH #300 (last German Legion story), who was who and still alive. And though many fans later on caused their concerns about how complicated everything was, I had a lot of fun finding out what was going on even though I was totally untrained in reading English and had missed so many stories of the Levitz era.

If I remember correctly I started with #13 & 14, and hunted down all the other issues within a year or so. I really got into the dystopian future scenario (still am very fond of similar ones today) and totally liked the storyline up until #38 when Terra Mosaic ended.

Of course, for me it was a rather eery feeling to get into a book where all the characters had aged just about the same that I had aged since 1984 as well - kind of a perfect fit, which is a personal thing that makes these comics so special to me. All the more frustrating it was when all of it was wiped out by the Reboot a short time later, and back then there was no Internet to express my frustration.

But I cherish the times when I really got into US comics with the Legion as my most important target to collect, and the 5YL run as my personal jumping on point. Giffen and the Bierbaums made it hard, but possible (and satisfying!) for a German guy to rediscover his childhood love. That's a feat that not that easy to achieve!

In issue #2 (I think) Jo Nah returns to his destroyed apartment. He collects a rock (from Rokk) with LLL on it. At the time I didn't know what it meant either. I must have read it before then, but not connected it. I think it was a little more subtle than a constant "Titans Together"/ "Avengers Assemble" battlecry?

Really liked hearing your history with the 5YL book Chemical King.

Legion of Super-heroes (1989) #10



"Roxxas Strikes"
Writer: Keith Giffen, Tom Bierbaum, Mary Bierbaum
Pencils: Keith Giffen
Ink: Al Gordon
Color: Tom McGraw
Editor: Mike Eury

Grade: B-

Summary: On Winath, the former Legionnaires are catching up before the big reunion can begin. Garth, Jo, and Rokk catch up while Ayla revisits the old Legion space cruiser. Meanwhile, Devlin and Bounty are snooping around the Ranzz plantation when Bounty catches scent of Roxxas and runs off. Mekt Ranzz comes across Roxxas in disguise and Roxxas reveals himself, thinking Mekt wants to kill the Legionnaires first. Mekt tries to talk Roxxas down and urges him to reform his ways, but Roxxas refuses and the two fight. Bounty is caught in the crossfire and though she puts up a fight, is quickly put down. The other Legionnaires eventually notice the commotion and join the battle, though Reep is shot in the head and Salu is badly beaten. However, Jo is able to arrive just in time to beat Roxxas badly, though Roxxas uses a grenade of some kind to escape. The issue ends with the Earthgov officials realizing that Roxxas is going to come for them for betraying him and Tenzil Kem trying to negotiate through customs.

Thoughts: Giffen is back on duty doing the pencils for the entire issue and I’m glad. Pearson’s style contrasted a bit too much for Giffen’s for my taste and prevented a proper sense of cohesion for the last issue. However, Giffen’s style really adds to the brutality of the fight scenes, as his jagged line-work makes bones appear broken and misplaced in some of these panels.

The issue itself offers a mix of some good character interaction, much of which I wish had been focused on instead of doing another “fight issue” so soon after the last one. Saul and Kono’s interactions are fun, really emphasizing that Kono, for all her bravado, is still a snarky teenager at the end of the day. I did find the scene where Jan informs Imra that Roxxas has broken into their home interesting in the way that Imra’s powers work. When she catch the thoughts of those injured in the battle, her nose starts bleeding and she’s suddenly come over by fatigue. Other than giving me Maxwell Lord flashbacks, I was curious whether this was ever shown in prior stories. Was Imra every negatively effected physically by bad thoughts when she detected them?

It was the multiple personalities within Roxxas' mind that overloaded Imra's powers. It not only reinforced his unpredictability, but added to his tactical threat against the Legion.

Ah, thanks for the clarification, thoth!

Just wanted to point out another couple of TMK threads on the boards, for more 5YL fun.

Let's Talk Tom & Mary

Dev Revisits the 5YG

Like a Legionnaires spin-off both have links to other reviews too.

Thanks, thoth!