Should I stay or should I go ? - 07/21/03 03:15 AM
Should I stay or should I go? If I go there will be trouble, if I stay it will be double...”
- some damn song lyric that’s been in my head.
Okay, this is a long one. Whatya think I’ve doin for two days? Having fun? No, writin’.
So grab a cola, pump up your attention span a bit, and get comfortable.
Yesterday I had concluded that I don’t belong here. That might yet be the case. I have written two member resignation letters. But I’ve reconsidered today.
So I ask myself what’s it gonna take for me to stay?
I’ll get to that main issue further down. But first some background. Some of this is chopped from my resignation letters, so hopefully it’s not too jumpy.
It was my intention to reveal my prior ID of bbz in a week or two, but someone else has decided otherwise. I had hoped to do so after members had gotten used to my new persona of Reep, and then discuss why I came back to MBs, and also point out that bbz is long, long gone.
When I left the DCMB, I mentioned that after 42 years, I was getting out of comics. I was serious and I have sold most of my comics (many that I’ve had for over 40 fuckiin years! ) And I’ve only bought a few issues of Legion (nothing else) off the stands.
After websurfing a while ago and discovering a coming DCMB revamp and being fascinated by the subsequent events, I had concluded it was interesting but that looks like that’s it me. But early this month, Legion World came online and it made me reconsider the conclusions I made when leaving DCMB. I slowly, eventually, realized I could join this great board without going back to comic collecting, and simply just have fun posting and enjoy the forums. Posting on a Comic MB without comics?! It was crazy enough to work!
Yeah, well. That was then, this is now. I felt the recent discussion issue I raised was legitimate, but in I can see the majority speaking (some with a little condescension,) against me. I think the real situation here is mostly generational conflict. IIRC, according to my Legion World Census, I’m the oldest responding member. The big majority are twenty years or more younger than me. As many have now said, they seem to prefer the quick and short posts. I don’t that much. It may be inevitable that I’ll be first to leave this party. Irreconcilable values and perspectives, yadda, yadda.
But what’s it gonna take by me for me to stay?
It seems best that I spend less time on writing. My topics and posts just don’t get what I consider the amount of visibility due the time I spent on it. Should I therefore spend even more time searching back pages for them to bump up above the flood posting? Is this reasonable? The majority say yes, I say no. So like any small minority facing an implacable large majority, I will adapt, in this case by doing less real writing here.
Which means even though my Polls are in another forum, it would be too frustrating to not follow up all the work I put in the Polls and Tallies/analyses with some entertaining discussion topics over here. So fewer Polls. I will probably let most of the current ones close before I do a new one. The Poll I mentioned about possible new romantic match-ups among all the Legionnaires won’t happen. Clearly, too much work.
For those who didn’t know, my one alt ID is Nardo. Nardo’s history. It takes time to craft that cartoony villain & his snarky radio advice.
I had hoped after revealing the previous bbz ID to start creating new Legion humor, like the stuff I reposted last night. This stuff was by far the most popular of anything I did at DCMB, more than the memoirs or Polls, and probably even my Indexes. I have great fun creating these, but they can be time-consuming; sometimes I’ll work a few days on one. It’s an art thing.
These changes of focus have begun already.
But my real change has already occurred. When I joined Legion World, I intentionally abandoned the confrontational, sometimes belligerent bbz approach used at DCMB. Those that remember bbz’s approach will see the big difference in my posts in this last debate. In raising the issue, and specifically in the manner I did, I was responsible and respectful. I did become a bit frustrated by the sudden emotional attack that came back at me for simply raising the issue. But I never brought out the knives and venom that is easily within my powers of professional expression (yeah, yeah, and poor grammar.)
If I remain a member here, it is my sincere intention to maintain this respectful approach to others. I feel it is PRIORITY NUMBER ONE in making this place better than DCMB or Rob’s MB. I intend to do my part and go offline if I’m approaching any serious “attack mode,” either from perceived provocation or inattentiveness on my part.
As to the “big discussion” I created, since I feel my opinion was repeatedly misrepresented, I believe I deserve a final chance to express why I raised this issue.
During the discussion, when Lash “outted” the bbz ID, he mentioned that because TD and bbz have “a history” she would surely respond. Any such “history” is news to me. Truly. But then TD has so many alternate IDs, who knows. I don’t keep track of them. Why should I? I guess one of those got into a spat with bbz. Again, who knows. We all eventually have tussles on the MBs. But there’s no history that I know of.
Here’s why I really created the discussion topic.
I had posted a topic pointing out that it seemed The Legion MB was gravitating to the sensibility of the old DCMB Legion board and the Mission Monitor Board was gravitating to the sensibility of the old Legionnaires board. Nightcrawler posted what seemed to be an agreement and that this had somewhat been his intention.
On Friday, I believe, I counted around 12 or more topics by TD on the first page, all apparently created that day. (I myself have created about 12 Polls, but these were 1 or 2 a day, and they seemed more numerous because there were few others creating Polls until recently.) I had two responses to TD’s “flood:” what happened to the forum diversity that it seemed everyone had organically adopted and NC had intended? And secondly, this topic flood naturally brought up reminders of the spamming of Rob’s MB.
Which was very ironic to me because it was TD and others who reacted to it with a total board lockdown. It seemed her actions and apparent indifference to where this board was going and was intended (so stated by NC) demonstrated the same indifference of the trolls that spammed Rob’s. TD’s intent may not have been malicious, but it sure seemed she was suddenly claiming this board as “another” board for “Legionnaires” MB party style posting and to hell with any old Legion MB sensibility.
This was were I was coming from. But a majority of you, very emotional at times, said no, TD’s our bud, TD’s cool, and you’re way out line, Reep. Popularity’s pretty important around here. More than Legion?
Lash said TD would have something about all this, she would contribute. He was 100% wrong. I agree with Lash, she should have come forward and spoke. But she didn’t. Her avoidance of criticism here has eerie similarity to her amazing cloistering after the meltdown at Rob’s. A bad pattern, TD.
So, anyway, after seeing TD’s “invasion,” I had to post a discussion topic about what actually is the nature of this forum. Such was my intent and words, but TD’s pals made it out to be an attack on TD. It wasn’t.
I honestly don’t have animosity toward TD, but I do find her avoidance of debate to be without merit. That said, I do find some of her jokes funny. I just don’t want to open a zillion topics to find them.
[TD, for what it’s worth, here’s my professional comedic advice. You can tell me to go to hell, but here it is anyway. Combine your topics and jokes into more integrated material. They will magnify each other’s humor; the sum is far, far greater than the parts. You’ve mastered spontaneity, try moving more into the more challenging higher level of observation and discovery, of weaving the lightning jots & jolts of absurdity into a mosaic of explosive hilarity and misdirective romps. Try going beyond the playtime that is “first drafts.” Leap into the magic, the craft of rewriting. That is the real sweet arena, the real jungle shivers. Again, for what it’s worth, the advice of one who makes some money writing comedy.]
[Edited out some snide comments about humorless editors. Though true, it was mean.]
And as a fellow member, I ask you TD to please consider a little more consideration in the volume of your posting. Consideration isn’t the enemy of fun. It’s the enemy of contempt. So says the ex-bbz!
Which brings us finally to a more real history I have. Greybird.
Greybird, Greybird, Greybird. bbz, bbz, bbz.
We’ve had some real donnybrooks, haven’t we, Grey? Almost the stuff of MB legends, but of course there’ve been far worse wars than our brawls. I think you enjoyed it a wee bit more than me, but we really put the damn butts in the seats! If we were as smart we both think we are, we would have got the popcorn concession. I said popcorn, but no, you said feather dusters. I am blaming you for my semi-poverty and surprising lack of sporty wheels. And no big-screen TV. Don’t forget the big-screen TV.
Thing is, Grey, sorry, but I don’t want to play anymore. bbz really is gone. I’m too old and just uninterested in any MB clash of keyboards.
Life’s short. I’m not going to waste my remaining years in MB feuds. With anybody.
I believe I understand the confrontational tone in your post on the discussion topic. I know most of the old DCMB’ers here figured out my past ID a while ago, as did you, but at that point, “bbz” had just been outted, and considering our history, your first response was naturally, “Oh hell, the asshole’s out! To the walls! Get those crocs in that fuckin moat!”
bbz’s not out, he’s long gone. It’s clear my former bellicosity has left the building since I didn’t get involved at all in your “Dawnstar isn’t Shikari” topic. Considering that you actually put a link on my Poll topic directing people away from it (rather than just mentioning you’re creating a topic,) and also that even though it was my Poll and question (with your view specifically included in the response,) you never once that I could see addressed me about it. If bbz was around, all of it probably would have been casus belli, and horns would have been locked, and our keyboards probably would have blazed away for days. (A flamewar is invigorating, isn’t it? )
I believe you had realized my past ID before then, and that part of your intent in the topic was to gauge my reaction. I wasn’t happy about the link, but my response was, well, it’s Greybird, he’s gonna do this stuff whenever he feels threatened, real or not, about Dawnstar. Grey, I understand you’re going to go overboard a few times about Dawnstar. And I trust, as occurred in your topic, the rest of the board will bring you, when necessary, back down to Earth (so to speak! ) I really don’t care one way or the other about the character. Dawnstar’s a favorite for me of the Superboy Period, but of my 42 year history with Legion, she doesn’t make my personal Top Ten.
We actually do appear to share some Legion opinions: Sherman of course, our recent concurrence about the key importance for comics of Cockrum’s departure from DC, and I guess at least some disinterest in Five Years Later Period. But I really doubt either of us thinks we’ll become “pals.” (I’m not here to create friendships anyway. I have more than enough friends in the real world. I’m here for Legion discussions, creative outlets, and just fun.)
Our personalities and philosophies don’t really sync that much, yet I think Reep and Greybird can co-exist at Legion World with probably only some occasional agreements to disagree, and even sometimes just agreements. (And maybe a rare “count to ten.”) Works for me. How about you, Grey?
So that’s pretty much it. Boy, I hope I never have to write something as long-winded as this for a long time. Maybe you quick-and-short posters do have the right idea after all! Any responders should not try to match this wordage without adequate medical coverage.
BTW, I have noticed the sudden increase of “serious” topics in the forum. A quasi-flood, by crikey! I’ll take that in perhaps at least small measure to be an expression of some agreement with me about the worth of such topics. Okay, give your ol’ noodles a rest. You can stop now! Please! “You’re scaring me, man!”
Legion World is a great place and I’m sure it will grow even more into a major comics site. Really. NC & LL have done a truly phenomenal job. Hey, it was good enough to get an ex-comicfan like me to join. That’s sayin’ something. There’s growing enthusiasm here, and as long as we respect each other, I predict many more good things ahead!
So I’m going to stay around, at least for a few weeks. And if this doesn’t turn into a mandatory boardwide “Party! Party! Party! Actung, Baby!” then I’ll probably stay on.
It’s probably too late, but I agree with whoever suggested a possible solution to all this would be a forum entirely devoted to the party posting. I think The Klordny Festival would be an excellent title. But that option may have opted out. Still a good idea to my minority perspective.
I heartily thank everyone who waded thru all this and hope we all can continue here with our unique fun.
LLLW!
Reep, not bbz
- some damn song lyric that’s been in my head.
Okay, this is a long one. Whatya think I’ve doin for two days? Having fun? No, writin’.
So grab a cola, pump up your attention span a bit, and get comfortable.
Yesterday I had concluded that I don’t belong here. That might yet be the case. I have written two member resignation letters. But I’ve reconsidered today.
So I ask myself what’s it gonna take for me to stay?
I’ll get to that main issue further down. But first some background. Some of this is chopped from my resignation letters, so hopefully it’s not too jumpy.
It was my intention to reveal my prior ID of bbz in a week or two, but someone else has decided otherwise. I had hoped to do so after members had gotten used to my new persona of Reep, and then discuss why I came back to MBs, and also point out that bbz is long, long gone.
When I left the DCMB, I mentioned that after 42 years, I was getting out of comics. I was serious and I have sold most of my comics (many that I’ve had for over 40 fuckiin years! ) And I’ve only bought a few issues of Legion (nothing else) off the stands.
After websurfing a while ago and discovering a coming DCMB revamp and being fascinated by the subsequent events, I had concluded it was interesting but that looks like that’s it me. But early this month, Legion World came online and it made me reconsider the conclusions I made when leaving DCMB. I slowly, eventually, realized I could join this great board without going back to comic collecting, and simply just have fun posting and enjoy the forums. Posting on a Comic MB without comics?! It was crazy enough to work!
Yeah, well. That was then, this is now. I felt the recent discussion issue I raised was legitimate, but in I can see the majority speaking (some with a little condescension,) against me. I think the real situation here is mostly generational conflict. IIRC, according to my Legion World Census, I’m the oldest responding member. The big majority are twenty years or more younger than me. As many have now said, they seem to prefer the quick and short posts. I don’t that much. It may be inevitable that I’ll be first to leave this party. Irreconcilable values and perspectives, yadda, yadda.
But what’s it gonna take by me for me to stay?
It seems best that I spend less time on writing. My topics and posts just don’t get what I consider the amount of visibility due the time I spent on it. Should I therefore spend even more time searching back pages for them to bump up above the flood posting? Is this reasonable? The majority say yes, I say no. So like any small minority facing an implacable large majority, I will adapt, in this case by doing less real writing here.
Which means even though my Polls are in another forum, it would be too frustrating to not follow up all the work I put in the Polls and Tallies/analyses with some entertaining discussion topics over here. So fewer Polls. I will probably let most of the current ones close before I do a new one. The Poll I mentioned about possible new romantic match-ups among all the Legionnaires won’t happen. Clearly, too much work.
For those who didn’t know, my one alt ID is Nardo. Nardo’s history. It takes time to craft that cartoony villain & his snarky radio advice.
I had hoped after revealing the previous bbz ID to start creating new Legion humor, like the stuff I reposted last night. This stuff was by far the most popular of anything I did at DCMB, more than the memoirs or Polls, and probably even my Indexes. I have great fun creating these, but they can be time-consuming; sometimes I’ll work a few days on one. It’s an art thing.
These changes of focus have begun already.
But my real change has already occurred. When I joined Legion World, I intentionally abandoned the confrontational, sometimes belligerent bbz approach used at DCMB. Those that remember bbz’s approach will see the big difference in my posts in this last debate. In raising the issue, and specifically in the manner I did, I was responsible and respectful. I did become a bit frustrated by the sudden emotional attack that came back at me for simply raising the issue. But I never brought out the knives and venom that is easily within my powers of professional expression (yeah, yeah, and poor grammar.)
If I remain a member here, it is my sincere intention to maintain this respectful approach to others. I feel it is PRIORITY NUMBER ONE in making this place better than DCMB or Rob’s MB. I intend to do my part and go offline if I’m approaching any serious “attack mode,” either from perceived provocation or inattentiveness on my part.
As to the “big discussion” I created, since I feel my opinion was repeatedly misrepresented, I believe I deserve a final chance to express why I raised this issue.
During the discussion, when Lash “outted” the bbz ID, he mentioned that because TD and bbz have “a history” she would surely respond. Any such “history” is news to me. Truly. But then TD has so many alternate IDs, who knows. I don’t keep track of them. Why should I? I guess one of those got into a spat with bbz. Again, who knows. We all eventually have tussles on the MBs. But there’s no history that I know of.
Here’s why I really created the discussion topic.
I had posted a topic pointing out that it seemed The Legion MB was gravitating to the sensibility of the old DCMB Legion board and the Mission Monitor Board was gravitating to the sensibility of the old Legionnaires board. Nightcrawler posted what seemed to be an agreement and that this had somewhat been his intention.
On Friday, I believe, I counted around 12 or more topics by TD on the first page, all apparently created that day. (I myself have created about 12 Polls, but these were 1 or 2 a day, and they seemed more numerous because there were few others creating Polls until recently.) I had two responses to TD’s “flood:” what happened to the forum diversity that it seemed everyone had organically adopted and NC had intended? And secondly, this topic flood naturally brought up reminders of the spamming of Rob’s MB.
Which was very ironic to me because it was TD and others who reacted to it with a total board lockdown. It seemed her actions and apparent indifference to where this board was going and was intended (so stated by NC) demonstrated the same indifference of the trolls that spammed Rob’s. TD’s intent may not have been malicious, but it sure seemed she was suddenly claiming this board as “another” board for “Legionnaires” MB party style posting and to hell with any old Legion MB sensibility.
This was were I was coming from. But a majority of you, very emotional at times, said no, TD’s our bud, TD’s cool, and you’re way out line, Reep. Popularity’s pretty important around here. More than Legion?
Lash said TD would have something about all this, she would contribute. He was 100% wrong. I agree with Lash, she should have come forward and spoke. But she didn’t. Her avoidance of criticism here has eerie similarity to her amazing cloistering after the meltdown at Rob’s. A bad pattern, TD.
So, anyway, after seeing TD’s “invasion,” I had to post a discussion topic about what actually is the nature of this forum. Such was my intent and words, but TD’s pals made it out to be an attack on TD. It wasn’t.
I honestly don’t have animosity toward TD, but I do find her avoidance of debate to be without merit. That said, I do find some of her jokes funny. I just don’t want to open a zillion topics to find them.
[TD, for what it’s worth, here’s my professional comedic advice. You can tell me to go to hell, but here it is anyway. Combine your topics and jokes into more integrated material. They will magnify each other’s humor; the sum is far, far greater than the parts. You’ve mastered spontaneity, try moving more into the more challenging higher level of observation and discovery, of weaving the lightning jots & jolts of absurdity into a mosaic of explosive hilarity and misdirective romps. Try going beyond the playtime that is “first drafts.” Leap into the magic, the craft of rewriting. That is the real sweet arena, the real jungle shivers. Again, for what it’s worth, the advice of one who makes some money writing comedy.]
[Edited out some snide comments about humorless editors. Though true, it was mean.]
And as a fellow member, I ask you TD to please consider a little more consideration in the volume of your posting. Consideration isn’t the enemy of fun. It’s the enemy of contempt. So says the ex-bbz!
Which brings us finally to a more real history I have. Greybird.
Greybird, Greybird, Greybird. bbz, bbz, bbz.
We’ve had some real donnybrooks, haven’t we, Grey? Almost the stuff of MB legends, but of course there’ve been far worse wars than our brawls. I think you enjoyed it a wee bit more than me, but we really put the damn butts in the seats! If we were as smart we both think we are, we would have got the popcorn concession. I said popcorn, but no, you said feather dusters. I am blaming you for my semi-poverty and surprising lack of sporty wheels. And no big-screen TV. Don’t forget the big-screen TV.
Thing is, Grey, sorry, but I don’t want to play anymore. bbz really is gone. I’m too old and just uninterested in any MB clash of keyboards.
Life’s short. I’m not going to waste my remaining years in MB feuds. With anybody.
I believe I understand the confrontational tone in your post on the discussion topic. I know most of the old DCMB’ers here figured out my past ID a while ago, as did you, but at that point, “bbz” had just been outted, and considering our history, your first response was naturally, “Oh hell, the asshole’s out! To the walls! Get those crocs in that fuckin moat!”
bbz’s not out, he’s long gone. It’s clear my former bellicosity has left the building since I didn’t get involved at all in your “Dawnstar isn’t Shikari” topic. Considering that you actually put a link on my Poll topic directing people away from it (rather than just mentioning you’re creating a topic,) and also that even though it was my Poll and question (with your view specifically included in the response,) you never once that I could see addressed me about it. If bbz was around, all of it probably would have been casus belli, and horns would have been locked, and our keyboards probably would have blazed away for days. (A flamewar is invigorating, isn’t it? )
I believe you had realized my past ID before then, and that part of your intent in the topic was to gauge my reaction. I wasn’t happy about the link, but my response was, well, it’s Greybird, he’s gonna do this stuff whenever he feels threatened, real or not, about Dawnstar. Grey, I understand you’re going to go overboard a few times about Dawnstar. And I trust, as occurred in your topic, the rest of the board will bring you, when necessary, back down to Earth (so to speak! ) I really don’t care one way or the other about the character. Dawnstar’s a favorite for me of the Superboy Period, but of my 42 year history with Legion, she doesn’t make my personal Top Ten.
We actually do appear to share some Legion opinions: Sherman of course, our recent concurrence about the key importance for comics of Cockrum’s departure from DC, and I guess at least some disinterest in Five Years Later Period. But I really doubt either of us thinks we’ll become “pals.” (I’m not here to create friendships anyway. I have more than enough friends in the real world. I’m here for Legion discussions, creative outlets, and just fun.)
Our personalities and philosophies don’t really sync that much, yet I think Reep and Greybird can co-exist at Legion World with probably only some occasional agreements to disagree, and even sometimes just agreements. (And maybe a rare “count to ten.”) Works for me. How about you, Grey?
So that’s pretty much it. Boy, I hope I never have to write something as long-winded as this for a long time. Maybe you quick-and-short posters do have the right idea after all! Any responders should not try to match this wordage without adequate medical coverage.
BTW, I have noticed the sudden increase of “serious” topics in the forum. A quasi-flood, by crikey! I’ll take that in perhaps at least small measure to be an expression of some agreement with me about the worth of such topics. Okay, give your ol’ noodles a rest. You can stop now! Please! “You’re scaring me, man!”
Legion World is a great place and I’m sure it will grow even more into a major comics site. Really. NC & LL have done a truly phenomenal job. Hey, it was good enough to get an ex-comicfan like me to join. That’s sayin’ something. There’s growing enthusiasm here, and as long as we respect each other, I predict many more good things ahead!
So I’m going to stay around, at least for a few weeks. And if this doesn’t turn into a mandatory boardwide “Party! Party! Party! Actung, Baby!” then I’ll probably stay on.
It’s probably too late, but I agree with whoever suggested a possible solution to all this would be a forum entirely devoted to the party posting. I think The Klordny Festival would be an excellent title. But that option may have opted out. Still a good idea to my minority perspective.
I heartily thank everyone who waded thru all this and hope we all can continue here with our unique fun.
LLLW!
Reep, not bbz