From Newsarama.

...Let the speculation begin...

Nice to see Hawkman get his due.

It's funny even as a kid I thought these guys were the top 6 guys at DC. Atleast when I did my dream JLA line-ups.

"Heroes Die" ugh.

So I guess those legends in the poster will live, and anyone not on the poster is in jeopardy.

RUN, TITANS! RUN!!

They probably will kill all the Titans.

I have to admit my first thought on seeing the image was "What the heck is Hawkman doing there with the Big Five?"

Heheh, he's the least screwed up the the next tier- Aquaman and MM aren't winning fans right now, Atom has been replaced.

Hmm... might not bode well for Green Arrow, then.

I'm actually just glad Captain Marvel and Plastic Man weren't thrown in there...

I love this lineup though. Let's hope these six are more than just the posterboys (and girl)

I wonder what the Crisis after Final Crisis will be named?

The Post-Final Crisis.

Crisis Crisis?

Final (No, We Really Mean It This Time), Final Crisis?

Encore Crisis?

Crisis: The Infinite Epilogue

Inexhaustible Climacteric

New and Improved Final Crisis now with 10% more Finality!

The "We've Used the Word Infinite Twice Now, Didn't You Believe Us?" Crisis

Infantile Crisis?

Infinity Plus 1 Crisis?

(I will say this gives me hope that DC is finally going to reboot their line.)

Crisis of Infinite Infinite Crises?

Erectile Crisis?

Oh, wait, that's just the Ollie & Dinah Honeymoon Special. He ain't no spring chicken, and being mayor of a semi-major city's gotta be pretty stressful...

There's always viagra, or failing that, I'm sure there's lots of herbal remedies online.

Not-another-Crisis Crisis?
I can't believe it's not another crisis?

Another. Sprocking. Crisis.

This just may be what finally makes me quit comics. Ugh.

Just Another Day in the DCU.

Does this mean Ambush Bug's dead?

"The Cher Farewell Tour?"

At least Superman has stopped crying for a few minutes this time. I mean, for the greatest hero of them all, he's been acting like a chemically induced mother of the bride the last ten crisises.

Big girls don't cry

Actually, with his face in shadow, you can't really tell. He could be sobbing like an 11 year old girl at an NSync concert.

Well, in the spirit of "Countdown", I guess the next crisis will be "Penultimate Crisis."

Hey, this could be a great basis for a new mega-survivor game! "Who should survive Final Crisis?" Hmmm...

Every time Superman cries, an angel gets his wings...

I liked Superman back when he was an emotional cripple. Once he started bawling on the cover of Crisis #8, he's been crying non-stop ever since--talk about opening the flood gates!

We should never forget that Superboy's crying once saved Shrinking Violet's life!

Unless I'm mistaken that's the original pre-crisis JLofA big 5 plus Katar.

The Final Crisis is precipitated when the six of them arrive at the DC office in our world and use Katar's mace on anyone that's worked in the editorial since 1985.

Poor Aquaman.

Don't worry. They won't kill Aquaman.

He might end up with a peg leg, though...

Ummm..they already did, didn't they? But first they turned him into a squid so maybe that doesn't count.

Hey I read that issue! (it feels good to say that)

Superman cried long before Crisis # 8

I just noticed and wonder if Crisis #8 was a homage to this cover.

I was mainly referring to the fact that his former "Big 6" status didn't earn him a place on the poster with the other biggies.

I feel that all of the original Superfriends should have been on that poster. You don't get more legendary than the Superfriends...

Especially the legendary Wonder Dog

But not Marvin.

What exactly is up with Colossus's arm on that cover?

He's... itching his neck.

Great story. And Jean's parents made the cover! A Marvel rarity!

It's an embarassing snapshot moment. What a story that was. Talk about getting in touch with your emotions!

Has anyone else seen the other teaser image from DC titled "...and evil shall inherit the Earth"? It was in this week's CSN.

...looks like it's been posted over at Newsarama since early July. First time I've seen it though.

DC\'s second Countdown image at Newsarama

I wonder if it's significant that all the characters in that Final Crisis image have been replaced at some point. In fact apart from Batman they've all actually died and come back.

I'm getting burned out on these MEGA EVENTS. It reminds me of the 90s when Marvel & DC had these annual events that crossed over through their titles. 90% of the time, you couldn't just read your regular titles without being confused, and half the time the overall story just wasn't worth reading the whole crossover.

Done too often, these crossovers become same old/same old, and they really lose their punch.

I think part of the Mega Events is Marvel is kicking DC's arse all over the place in sales. Marvel is doing Mega Events thus DC is doing their own.

Real? Not Real? That "8" on 2008 looks a bit suspect but this WAS on the DC nation myspace page.
Expect Titan Deaths. Maybe we'll get lucky and it'll be Supergirl.

Hahaha there was already a thread. BAH! *sheepish look*

"Final Crisis on Earth-2"
*The Last one was on Earth-1*

And if THIS one sells, there's 50 Earths left!

More Speculation.....

== So what's with all the "I Am Batman" promotion? I hope they're not going to turn Batman into a V type legend (a la "V for Vendetta") as part of the "Resist" theme.

== I'm starting to agree with those who think the Martian Manhunter's going to buy it (as the motivation for Hal and Ollie starting their own League). I think it was Morrison who was saying that Living Flame makes has a very dramatic effect with his reintroduction to the DCU (and who's weakness is flame?)

During the NYCC DC Nation Panel, posted over at CBR, a fan asked Morrison what he would say in a eulogy for Martian Manhunter...that's not looking good for J'Onn (unless this is the old 'bait & switch' tactic).

Except Robin. Even though the Bat family has so many members, it's a family dammit!

****SPOILERS for DCU #0*****
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I like the slow introduction of Barry's "awakening" - transitioning from an ethereal entity to himself. It reminds me of Wolfman's "Infinite Crisis" novel where Barry's flashing throughout the DCU unnoticed, the very human omniscient narrator. I like the little touch of how his narration captions go from half red/half black to all red as he emerges from the afterlife, revealing his insignia. It's actually the biggest indication of who the narrator is, but it packs as much a whallop as if the splash page depicted the character himself. (assuming of course it wasn't already spoiled for you) It might contradict Barry's appearance in "Green Arrow" (The Quiver), but a tale of this scope can't be tied to every little continuity detail.

The mini-previews were mostly pretty interesting (more red herring "foreshadowing" that Batman's going to die), but I was underwhelmed by the Wonder Woman segment. Maybe it's that the art (while nice) is a little too pedestrian for how big these storylines are supposed to be, or maybe it's the obvious "300" influence.

NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no NO no

For some bizarre reason, I didn't echo CJ's "NO no"'s when I discovered Barry's return, even though I wanted him to stay dead. At least he should get credit for being a mainstream character who stayed dead the longest?

Maybe this will give Wally a permanent place back with the Titans in their new series. It does seem like things are going backward for DC: the return of the multiverse, the original Legion, even Jason Todd, and now Barry. What's next, a walking Barbara Gordon?

I thought the way it was done was pretty cool. But I think they also used some trickery. Some of those panels seem to be of the narrator and it was revealed it wasn't the same person.

Anyways, I don't mind Barry being back for the Crisis. Don't want him sticking around after that. I wouldn't mind seeing him though in the 31st century (that would be five possible speedsters in the 31st century...Barry, Dawn, Don, Bart, and Jenni)

I agree with UJ. Barry can come back for a short time here...but then he deserves his rest.

Speaking of "Resting"(in Peace), has it been explicitly stated that "Batman R.I.P." actually means "Batman Rest In Peace"? What if "RIP" actually means something else in this event? (something like "Resistance Is Power" or somesuch if it's connected to Crisis)

I kinda loathed that bit solely for the unarmored dudes picture. It was so blatantly 300 (since Greek soldiers actually wore armor, and didn't march into combat in loinclothes and capes...) that it was just embarassing to see.

As for the big reveal, meh. Wally growing up to take his place seemed organic and 'real.' This feels like yet another step backwards (like the Hal Jordan return). I fear that they are going to do the same thing here, and return him without having a clear idea what to do with him, and then leave him, like Hal, farting around acting all mentorly instead of being a mainstream character in his own right.

I'm okay with characters coming back for story-advancing reasons, so long as the writers have a purpose for that character. If he's coming back just for a short-term sales bump, that's cheap and insults the writers who had the stones to write him out, the writers who worked so hard to advance his legacy and the readers who embraced (or at least learned to accept) those decisions.

Well it sounds like Barry's return will be short term, story focused, so I could handle that. But I am tired of resetting things in the DCU. Just accept it's not 1982 and we'll be okay.


Anyone get the sketchbook that came out this week? There's some interesting bits in the artist notes, and some fine ideas coming out of Grant's head. I'm excited to see this series and his follow up work to it.

sketchbook? I have not seen it at CBS in Berkeley yet - I must have missed it. What interesting bits?!?? spoil us please!

Nothing really spoilery in the book. But Grant's interpretation of Darkseid as foul incarnate intrigues me. He's created a team of Japanese heroes, seeing them reminds me of the first time we saw China's Big 10.

According to the comics guru at my CBS, not only is Barry being brought back (as the human incarnation of the Speed Force) but Bart will also be brought back as Kid Flash.

Sadly, the final page in Final Crisis #1 out today seems to bear this out. And so the typical DCU Crisis bloodletting has begun

if they bring back barry, then they to bring back the first supergirl she is the only descent one we ever had and the new one i wish i could kill over and over again

So I JUST finished reading issue #1. Impressions in no particular order:

1) The art is indeed lovely, but I was disappointed still, because the only previous experience I had with Jones were his Amazing covers for 52. I thought the art here would have a more hyper-real sort of style.

2) It seems to contradict Death of the New Gods, but I couldn't care less! Even if DOTNG had been, you know, GOOD, I still wouldn't care. The stuff in FC#1 IS good, really good.

3) One review I read complained that the SSSV version whatever.0 had no motivation. Pshaw! He didn't read the issue. The SSSV is back because EVIL WON! And Libra mocking Vandal Savage was priceless.

4) Killing venerable super heroes is just never good unless they are sacrificing themselves for the greater good. The killing in this ish works as shocking, and makes the point that THIS time will be different. Still, a very sad end to someone I personally love (even if DC has screwed him up, along with almost everything else, the last 2 years).

5) Morrison's take "Dark Side" and the New Gods is awesome. It seems to ring true to the original while giving us a desperately needed new twist on something only Kirby really did well. Seeing Darkseid as a Tarantino/"Live and Let Die" blaxploitation bad-ass in a seedy night club of crime just works. The Darkseid Kirby actually wrote often did outlandish things, especially in Mr. Miracle. Like most everything else, Darkseid got ossified and self-caricatured. This really is a breath of fresh air. Hearing Dark Side say "they [children] are beyond salvation." is one of the most chilling things the character has uttered since the Great Darnkness saga. About bloody time, too.

6) I read very little of Seven Soldiers. Now I think I'll have to go back and take a look.

7) Morrison and Jones's Monitors exude more cosmic coolness in 4 pages than in 1,300 pages of "Countdown."

The last point really brings home the waste that 2007-2008 has been for the DCU. Reading FC #1, you see that the things that happened before were a) the death of the New Gods and b) the destruction of Earth 51. Oh, and I suppose you could say c) the existence of Kamandi. On these story points, which to me really don't necessarily call for much background -- war in heaven, evil won, monitor screws up, future uncertain -- DC decided to publish at least 2,000 pages of strung-out, mediocre, pointless pablum. Morrison covers all these story points brilliantly in 25 pages, managing to make me interested again in stories I abandoned 6 months ago. Quality, not quantity, you lunkheads!

i did not like it one bit

when they did IC a few years back i was very into it liked it a whole lot

this book the only think i liked was the cave man

im not a fan of the GL corps and i felt the book was pointing a lot at them. and everything else such as the female question, the tattoo guy i didn't care about....at all they will never be be the next batman/superman in a year or so they will be written into the background so it was hard for me to even try to care


it make me wonder if the legion of three world is going to suck this badly

Oh, yes. Anthro. I do adore long hair on men.

On topic, I find that Morrison usually promises a lot and delivers little. But I flipped through the first issue a couple times out of curiosity. I was not impressed.

I was happy to see Morrison continue with his version of the New Gods from the Seven Soldiers series. The cosmic/Monitor stuff didn't grab me - but I'll probably get the next issue, at least.

BTW, Douglas Wolk is doing annotations for Final Crisis - 1st issue covered here .

Just read FC #1.

I was absolutely underwhelmed. I never was a fan of Morissons writing. Don't know why he is considered such a hot writer - I did not like "Invisibles", yawned over his JLA and never thought his X-Men stuff was as great as the press wanted to make us believe...

... and now this. My impression: The pacing of the story is totally wrong, Morisson switches from one storyline to the other without any logic or motivation behind it.

On one page, Dr. Light and Mirror Master battle down some C-Heroes I never heard of - three pages later, Dr. Light <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">suddenly drags the Martian Manhunter in some room to let Libra kill him???</span></span>

What kind of storytelling is that?

Not to mention that they <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">simply killed a veteran character out of the blue without any grandeur or meaning just for the sake of a bloddy effect???</span></span>

We get an accidentally thrown in panel of Black Canary and Red Arrow at a supervillain demonstration in the middle of this to boot...

And this is just one example of bad writing / pacing. Morisson never bothers to explain what exactly is happening there. Shouldn't such a "main event" somehow be accessible for new readers? They don't get ANY explanation what happened before, who is who and why in Gods name they should be keeping on BUYING this book... Morisson just keeps on throwing in "ultracool" stuff without telling a story. This is like 52 meets Countdown in its worst way...

I feared this would happen and Grant Morisson did not "disappoint" me in the worst of ways... so glad that L3W will be done by Geoff Johns instead.

I liked the start. It gave promise and hinted at things to come. From Metron's opening to Darksied's rant- Morrison is making these New Gods GODS.

Yes Countdown and DOTNG killed the New Gods already. But Grant's skipping over that and bringing folks up to date without a lot of exposition. We've got gods dying, gods inhabinting human bodies, and a threat that spans eons.

I'm willing to give him an issue or two to explain.

As for the death- sometimes villains are villianous. And DC got flak for when the villain killed a loved one of a hero. Now they get flak for when a hero dies. So no one should be kiiled?

So I read #1 and I'm not as dissapointed as many here at all. It was pretty much what I expected with some minor quibbles.

Great to see Anthro, Metron, the minor Kamdani bit, and other bits that Morrison nicely uses to convey the scope of what he's tring to do. I honestly don't think he was trying to be 'cool' at all, and that he seldom does this in the past few years; I think he's trying to be 'different' and his writing technique and pacing is intended to mirror the actual message he's trying to get across. Which will reveal itself in due time, probably not until the close of the final issue. I certainly trust in his writing style to bring me there.

After a fair amount of time being sickened by DC's use of the New Gods, its nice to see Morrison use them, but I have to admit right out that even seeing them makes me a feel like saying 'not them again!'. The only saving grace is that it feels like Morrison is attempting to give us the LAST New Gods story, or at least for a little while (because at this rate the LAST New Gods story will end up being published centuries after I'm dead).

Libra is interesting but it seems so obvious to anyone familiar with Kirby's Fourth World that he's Glorious Godfrey. So I honestly hope its not.

Martian Manhunter's death is so in the vain of bad super-hero deaths that one might think its on purpose that way, but I don't want to give Grant Morrison that much credit yet until I read the entire series. Honestly though, we all know J'Onn isn't dead. He's practially the only totally original, independent and stand-alone character left in the entire DCU. He's not dead. It just depends on if he's gone for six issues, six months or six years.

I kind of like seeing Turpin. And Renee-Question and John Stewart having large roles would be welcome here. Morrison has very large ideas but he often doesn't use vast amounts of characters in his stories, so I don't expect to see everyone popping up. It'll be interesting to see who does.

I like the fact that I know nothing about what this is supposed to be. Obviously Didio and the DC Marketing department don't know how to market it and have been marketing it slightly wrong all along. You can just tell by the utter cluelessness that comes across in every interview or media blurb they do. In two pages Morrison at least made the Monitor's seem a *little* interesting...it'll be interesting to see if that has really all that much to do with this story at all.

Morrison on FC #1

So Grant talks with Newsarama about FC #1, the conflicts with Countdown, and MM's death. He talks about FC #1 being written before there was a Countdown, and he hadn't realized DC was going to bring the New Gods into the limelight.

He also talks about MM's death, and that he wanted to show the villains are stepping it up- they are EVIL.


As for Libra- I figure he is a newly returned blue-eyed fan favourite.

Best part - at long last I get to see Dr. Light get served up some vegeance. I hate the character now, and as much as I wanted it to be Hawkman to cave his head in, I can live with the Spectre ending him.

I'm pretty much New Godded out.

I think Morrison's take on them is entertaining, but I wish he'd created a pantheon that had their own identities. Reading the largely white, WASPy New Gods as black characters playing at being gangstas sort of disturbs me.

Will Highfather, Lightray, etc. also have dark skin? If not, isn't that a pretty ugly pattern to use?

I don't really get the reason for the change; but Dark Side and crew's debut in 7 SOLDIERS was creepy and evil as could be- with a nasty sense of humor.

DC's making it a practice these days to have confusing groups of gods with conflicting continuities appear simultaneously. See the recent Freddy Freeman mini-series, Wonder Woman, Wonder-Girl and JSA for references.

This really tops everything (in a bad way...): They spend one year of pushing a bad story down our throats, just to start the main event with the discovery that the bad story doesn't fit with the main event at all????????????????

Are they totally mad???

I never cared for the New Gods (or any other spiritual or mystic character) - except for Great Darkness - and my opinion isn't improved by overexposure to them with stories that don't even fit together...

So is Darkseid dead or not dead (he died at the end of Countdown... didn't he???)???

My comic-book guy suggested this but only after begging for some ideas on things to read that might remotely affect Legion.

This Libra comes off more back-alley than powerfull and charismatic. Cannot fathom why anyone would follow him.

Except for Luthor, the characters read the same to me.

Loved the art on the opening pages.

Overall, not a fan. This is a weekly, right?

Can't see spending $150 on this story.

No, BB, Trinity is the new weak-ly title. FC is a 7-issue monthly. Plus assorted tie-ins, but Legion of 3 Worlds is the only one I'm getting in addition to the main FC book.

Yikes. I was already pretty mad about the ending of the Death of the New Gods. This is pretty frustrating.

What's amazing is how bad its DC that screwed this up, not Jim Starlin, not Grant Morrison. Obviously, Morrison had begun this story months ago and had a specific set of beats he was going to tell, yet DC decided they should cash in while they can and release Death of the New Gods.

DC is the comics equivalent of Countrywide Financial.

I picked this up knowing nothing really much about the 52 series - except for, well, that the multiverse was back. I bought it only because of the Final Crisis: Legion coming up. Overall, it was ok. I was a little (lot) lost.

I have a couple of stupid questions... Who in the heck was the guy that woke up suddenly at the end looking at his hands - what was the significance? And what was with Anthro and the broken down Statue of Liberty?

Oh thanks, comic-book guy put Trinity in my bag too. I liked Trinity alright. For 7-ish I suppose I might hang onto it. And of course I'll be getting 3 Worlds, the cartoon Legion and Ambush Bug. I'd been hoping for more Legion stuff this year though. Fables trade coming out. Gives me a couple things to read through the summer.

Hey Daryl, it's absolutely worth reading Morrison's interview on Newsarama:

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/080609-MorrisonFC01.html

The waking up guy is a Monitor who was punished in the preceding pages. I think he's mortal now with a washed memory.

Anthro is apparently becoming the first superhero, sparked by Metron's appearance. The broken-down statue of liberty and the other long-haired boy is Kamandi, the Last Boy on Earth.

I have to say it IS really hard just to read this book and not think of the waste DC Editorial has made of the last year. They really couldn't think of ANYTHING else but spoiling/teasing/contradicting/trivializing Morrison's Final Crisis story? What a pathetic state of affairs. They could have spent a year doing cameo teases (like in the original Crisis on Infinite Earths). They could have done a book simply exploring the new Multiverse (e.g., Earth 51, Kamandi, whatever), with one book per week, that could have been REALLY good, sort of an Exiles/What If/Twilight Zone anthology style thingie. Get some great creators to tell interesting stories building off the Morrison/Waid/Rucka/Johns framework. With the Phantom Stranger as your guide! Ooh, I get goosebumps thinking of how good it could have been. They could have HINTED at the turmoil of the New Gods without stealing and spoiling Morrison's thunder.

I haven't read THAT much in comics in the last 20 years -- I had steadily avoided more and more of the big company events (to this day, I have NO idea what has gone on with the X-Men since about 1988, even though I've read a steady smattering of Marvel books). I got pulled back in by "52" because it was so much fun. I'll keep reading Final Crisis because Morrison's TRYING to do some interesting things, and I'm willing to pay to see if he succeeds or not. But if I were Paul Levitz, I'd start seriously considering whether Dan DiDio and Mike Carlin should keep their jobs.

"But if I were Paul Levitz, I'd start seriously considering whether Dan DiDio and Mike Carlin should keep their jobs."

Mike Carlin? HE's the one who F***** over LEGION history in the FIRST place!!!!!

Morrison does suggests readers look at FC as a separate story from CTFC. Don't let reading one hinder your appreciation of the other.

Yeah. He pretty said DC fucked that one up, not him, though as diplomatically as possible. Damn DC.

Thanks for the link to the N'rama interview.

I really need to work on my reading comprehension... I completely missed that that was Darkseid in human form.

I think I need to switch to Archie comics.

Final Crisis gets an additional artist in Carlos Pacheco. I like his work, so it's all good to me.

Who prefers late books to multiple artsts?

Final Crisis at Newsarama

DiDio's cluelessness appears to be moving beyond just comics fans: http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.com/a-major-reboot-of-dc-comics-before-comic-con/

The least we deserve is his job served up on a platter for that the Brother Eye vs. Darkseid sequence in Countdown

I don't mind multiple artists as long as they're both of a high quality rather than a hack fill-in and that the styles compliment the story.

Good recent examples being the "Sinestro Corps War" and the very intentional multiple artists on "The Immortal Iron Fist"

I'm with ya Drake. I like pretty picutres, and as long as they go well with the story, I don't mind who's drawing them.

Any thoughts about #2?
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-- Things are starting to move along, but we haven't gotten to the world-shaking part just yet. Mister Miracle si recruiting heroes to combat the upcoming evil, the former Monitor's coworkers at Big Belly Burger thinks he's nuts and the heroes are being targeted: Hal Jordan is framed for the near fatal assault on John Stewart and the murder of Orion, Batman is taken away via Boom Tube and Superman has some personal crises of his own after an explosion at the Daily Planet.

Oh, and Barry Allen comes back.

The story's good so far, but certainly there's a lot of live up to with the "Crisis" monniker. I'm sure people expect a lot more stuff to happen, but I'll reserve judgement since this is the calm before the storm. Things are progressing in the story Morrison is able to convey a sense of genuine menace on the horizon.

My CBS was actually sold out of this issue so it will be a while before I get a chance to read it for myself.

I have absolutely NO interest in "Final Crisis" - I tried reading both "52" and "Countdown" and hated both.

The last Crisis containing Superboy's death had great art and story though.

I am really hoping "Legion of 3 Worlds" lives up to the hype.

I feel "Titans" has been a HUGE disappointment - awful story, awful characterization and DREADFUL AWFUL art.

The new lineup for "Teen Titans" from DC Nation looks awful - big mistake to get rid of Ravager/Rose Wilson. The rest of the characters in the books are just b*****s especially Cassie.

I have liked Shooter's run on Legion but now it is starting to feel hollow since it has been revealed he isn't really "on" the book and they are just using his scripts. Plus everything might be null/void once "3LW" comes up.

For awhile DC was much better than Marvel but I think it is starting to swing back to Marvel.

The new Uncanny X-Men and Astonishing X-Men look promising with the new direction the books are taking.

Are slow burns still viable in today's comics industry?. Nothing's really captivated me yet, though Shilo's excursion to Japan comes closest. The new New Gods think is just an added layer of confusion, I think.

The Villains Win- isn't really all that much of a selling point. Barry's return is hard to see as anything but a cynical exercise in manipulation.

um... did they actually let GraMo use the word @**h***? I know comix have been more lax of late with words like bitch, but @**h*** is one of those words made famous (or infamous, whatever... ) in George Carlin's "7 Words You Can't Say..." skit. WhudFXup with THAT?

I'm always surprised-- shocked really-- when I see g.d. in comics. To me, that's about 1,000 times worse than any of the other cuss words.

Pov, that profanity also jarred me. Does the CCA not appear on the cover? I'll have to relook at it.

Mystery Lad, I agree with you too about letting that expletive in comics too.

It's disappointing that language has to be reduced to so base a level to reflect anger. The medium allows violence and battle scenes to do that, but the words should be held to a higher standard.

I don't mind the language. Why should it be less acceptable than limbs being ripped off or heads being blown apart?

Well, not one (on this thread so far) is promoting ripped and blown body parts as good story-telling, so I'm not sure I follow your logic?

I usually find such things quite distracting from a story. Not just the button pushing of them, but they are usually just plain silly in context at best.

I just mean to say that since we've seen many instances of that kind of ultra-violence of late, the word A-hole shouldn't be so shocking, disturbing or distracting. (although I guess it still is)

Unnecessary, mostly, but yeah... distracting.

Okay, I get it, Turpin's doing the "bad cop" beatdown shtick. And if it wasn't The Great Grant writing, his timid "editor" probably would've cleaned it up.

This is just too much New Gods / Apokolips for me. I just saw Darkseid die in Countdown and now here he is, plotting the takeover of Earth. I can't get over that mother of all continuity glitches.

The second issue was a little better than the first one, the fact that I have no idea who all those bnad Gods are nonewithstanding. I dare to say though that this Miniseries won't be among the big ones people will still be talking about in the far future.

Anyone else read FINAL CRISIS: REQUIEM?

I think it was quite moving, but I didn't quite buy into it because I don't *really* think that J'onn isn't coming back.

But I'm less certain than I was.

I liked the central idea of a telepath from a telepathic race passing on their knowledge/history/personality. In this case, the five recipents (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Gypsy and Black Canary) now call themselves guardians of Mars.

How long will *that* last? And will it impact the futures of these characters? Or is it a nice ceremonial beat we read now and are expected to forget in two months' time?

The sight of the mourners being transported to Mars by the Green Lanterns was an impressive one.

The writing reminded me of the funeral of Sue Dibny, which was the highpoint of IDENTITY CRISIS for me (I know some think that story *had* no high points- but I disagree).

*didn't read it*1

Uh... why those five? Gypsy, definitely. Batman, I can understand. But how do the other three make any sense? (beyond DC's insistence that Superman, Batman & Wonder Woman be involved in everything...)

And I think "ceremonial beat/quickly forgotten" is pretty certain.

Substitute Green Lantern for Wonder Woman and you'd be right. (I know DC wants to brainwash us into thinking of the "Trinity" as one, but no, Wonder Woman wasn't included)

The choices kinda make sense to me, though Black Canary would've made more sense if she were still one of the League's founders. (which I don't think she is anymore)

I am now totally waiting for the story where the "guardians of Mars" find themselves compelled to come together (like the 4 Cylons in BSG) and do something that ends up bringing J'onn back from the dead. (Preferably a few years from now at least)

So what exactly is the current storyline called? I know there was some lead-ins to Final Crisis but I'm not clear what all and in what order?

The library finally got in copies of the "Infinite Crisis" trade. My most immediate thought is "why?"

Reading a dialogue between creators included at the end, it seems at least in their minds they created a great work of comic art. They got woodies over a head being popped off? That's desperate. Crisis was a great read, without any of that. And like the results or not, it was pertinent and emotional (at least for me).

Also in the dialogue were comments about a scene bringing Legion in from the future to fight Superboy Prime, a scene dropped. Is this the reasoning behind this Legion of 3 Worlds, so that someone can realize this fight even though the Final Crisis is over?

Superboy Prime? Blah and double blah. I guess because it's "Superboy" we're supposed to be all OMG over this baddie but in general, he's uninteresting to me. I've not been given any reason to empathize with the character, it seems they thought there would be "shock value" in this? They already spent that when they cloned Superman.

???

Conner's death was a good comic death IMO and not being a cloneboy fan, I was happy to see him go. The Teen Titans massacre was so silly I was giggling. The Freedom Fighters somewhat better though I didn't realize Bizarro was all that violent. I guess I just read the books where he's kind of goofy.


I'm reading the "companion" now (not bad) and have the second volume of 52, which is hard for me to get into.

Thank you, that's correct. I guess DC's grouping the three together has seeped into my subconscious. Ack!

Should ROGUES' REVENGE be discussed here or get its own thread?

It is a FINAL CRISIS tie-in...

...and, as such, joins REQUIEM as being about three times as entertaining as the 'main' series.

It was a treat seeing Johns and Kolins reunited on a Flash/Rogues title set in Keystone City. In the rain and lightning associated with... well, we'll see if the 'with' is what we all think it is, given what's happening in FC.

Here, we see the return of a beaten-down, tired group of wanderers. This group-- Captain Cold, Heat-Wave, Mirror Master and Weather Wizard-- are, I think, the best-characterized villain group in comics. Individually and even collectively, they may not be the most powerful or effective. But they're the most human, most readable, most specific guys.

At least when they're written as they are here, as opposed to the issues where Bart Allen was killed. Said crime's haunting them is the tentpole of the plot.

Pied Piper, who'll always both be and not be a Rogue, gets good play here, as well. His role in REVENGE will be one I look forward to reading.

What I'm not looking forward to reading is more of this Axel Walker TRICKSTER. I loathe this character and did before James Jesse was killed in COUNTDOWN. I want to see him returned to the Trickster role (actually, coming back from the dead and having a new, spiritual type of schtick would befit the name 'Trickster', wouldn't it?). At the *least* I hope Piper gives this Axel person one heck of a beatdown.

Iris West, Professor Zoom, Inertia (now Kid Zoom?) and some old detective friends from Johns' last FLASH run make appearances, as well.

No Flash book published since Johns left the title has seemed like a 'Flash' book to me. It was nice to read on again.

Geoff Johns' run on Flash is one of the favorites in my entire collection and Kolins' work particularly stands out. Run Riot, Kolins' work on Grodd made that character so believably real.

I think I may take you up on this tip. I didn't know they killed Trickster. He beat Hell once, maybe he can beat Heaven?

By the way, does anybody know why there had to be even more new Superheroes in FC #2? The japanese ones? Isn't the DC universe confusing and convoluted enough without adding ten new characters every event?

I really totally lost the "overview" about what's going on in the DCU. Maybe that's because I never bothered to read any Superman, Batman or Flash books over the last 15 years - so the only recent developments I know about in the non-Legion world is Green Lantern.

But shouldn't a major crossover book be accessible to any reader? And if they have to throw that many new characters (and old ones in new costumes) at us, why can't they at least do some kind of roll call? Reading DC is no longer fun... neither is Marvel, but at least they are starting with a "What happened before" synopsis again...

LINDA IS BACK : Joeboy is happy
Reign in hell <3

Wow, no comments on FC #3, yet?

Well, spoiler-free, I'd have to say this issue is a turn in the right direction, as most of the disparate plot threads are coming together. A lot of nice moments, and it's starting to make some sense.

Seems, in a way, like four more issues won't be enough to resolve everything, though. Yeah, there're the spin-offs and such, but I'd hate to think I'd have to pick them all up to understand everything because I'm not!

Any,how each subsequent issue is better than the last, so that's a good thing!

It's a Grant Morrison story. That always gives me pause. Not that I don't like it, but I get more out of it in one sitting than spread across months (and cross over titles.)

It had some interesting moments with The Question. The super hero draft seemed odd since they always round up the heroes in these cross overs; like they need a reason to gather.

The Wonder Woman/Mary Marvel throw down was nice, but would seem a bit odd if not for Mary's story in Countdown.

The Flash subplot gives us a plausible reason for skipping a month and having the interim stories in all the crossovers.

And Jones' artwork is always a pleasure to behold.

An odd observation, but has anyone noticed that the coloring seems "off" in FC #3?

Perhaps I'm crazy, but as I was reading it, I kept feeling like "Wow, the art in this seems really flat," then I noticed the odd color choices.

It seems like every two pages or so a different "plate" of color is missing. I don't have the book in front of me to do a full page by page breakdown, but I certainly remember that the hospital scene with Clark and Lois seemed to have no magenta in the composition.

Just me?

I haven't read this issue yet, but I have read some spoilers over on the DC boards, and I'm a bit disturbed. I'll wait to read the issue (and the rest of the series) before I fully pass judgment, but if my understanding of what happens in this issue between Wonder Woman and Mary Marvel is true -- and things don't happen in subsequent issues to change the course of the story -- I'm going to be seriously pissed.

I thought DC's treatment of Mary Marvel during Countdown was deplorable. (Worse even than Judd Winick's hackwork of a Captain Marvel, Jr. story in The Trials of Shazam, and that's saying something.) I understand how effective the "seduction of the innocent" storyline can be if taken to its full potential, but DC seriously botched it with the Mary Marvel story. Mary's fall to the dark side, followed by her redemption, followed by her "surprise" relapse at the hands of Darkseid, was utterly out of character and unsupportable in relation to decades of character and story development in the Marvel family canon. Simply put, it wasn't just that DC "ruined" a well-loved character with a longer history than most DC characters; the entire storyline was doubly offensive because it was so poorly conceived and executed, and ultimately implausible. It was, in effect, a slap in the face to not only Mary Marvel fans, but all who value quality storytelling in their comics.

I had hoped that Final Crisis would have taken what happened in Countdown and developed it in some way that could have turned it around or at least had it make sense within DCU canon -- and thus redeemed it to some extent. Now, however, as if to add insult to injury, Grant Morrison seemingly picks up right where Countdown left off, and depicts a Wonder Woman-Mary Marvel fight that both reinforces the piss-poor character "development" of Countdown, and is also wholly inconsistent with everything the DCU has ever portrayed in regard to the relative abilities of Wonder Woman and Mary Marvel.

As I said, I'll read Final Crisis in its entirety before fully passing judgment, but if things don't take a drastic turn, it will bode poorly for my continued support of DC comics.

OK, so maybe my last post was made when I was in a bit of a head-punching mood...

I've now read Final Crisis #3. A couple thoughts:

- I'm glad Tawky Tawny (or whatever he goes by these days) is OK. It wasn't really clear from Trials of Shazam whether he had been killed or was just injured. I guess it was the latter.

- An effective little scene with Freddy and Tawny. I'm surprised that Freddy doesn't know what's happened to Mary (only that she's "disappeared"). It's nice, however, to have him acknowledge the sorry state of the Marvel Family -- really the heart of makes the Billy/Mary/Freddy relationship special -- and make a vow to bring Mary "home." At least it seems Final Crisis is going to have the new Captain Marvel actually do something about Mary, rather than just having her succumb to the dark side and discarded. (Freddy's comment about changing to Captain Marvel and not coming back did strike a chord, though... I've always wondered why Freddy and Mary didn't do just that. Unlike Billy, their Marvel forms look pretty much like their normal selves.)

- Mary's ridiculous appearance (shaved head and pink hair; dominatrix-type outfit) and behavior are completely, totally over-the-top. It's like she's a parody of herself -- worse even than the "Mistress Mary" that appeared in I Can't Believe It's Not the Justice League. The fact that her new personality is so beyond the pale actually leads me to believe Morrison is planning to resolve her situation somehow... had she just been mostly herself but "evil," then I think there would be a much larger chance that she'd remain that way indefinitely as a new DCU villain. I only hope that the resolution isn't killing her off... but I'll wait and see.

- And... I still think the story developments that brought Mary Marvel to this point, as shown in Countdown, were ludicrous and implausible -- but, sadly, pretty much par for the course for that series.

Just read FC #3 and I have to say - I'm really angry about the crap they are throwing in our direction. This is no coherent storytelling anymore, it is just a patchwork of allegedly cool flashes of inspiration which only serve to confuse the reader out of his way...

I really hate what Grant Morrisson is doing on this book - which is no wonder cause I did not like anything he did over the last ten years - and am currently close to leave DC comics behind.

What makes me most angry is the constant flow of new question marks which keep on coming up. Not good, mysterious, interesting questions like in "Lost", but annoying, useless question marks like: Who is Father Time, and why is he working with Frankensteins Monster? What happened in Blüdhaven that is so bad? How did Barry Allen suddenly reappear? Who is Überfräulein and if she's German, why does she talk such nonsense? Who are the Tiger next to Marvel Jr. and the black Mister Miracle, and since when is there a new Aquaman? Why is the Mary Marvel part of Countdown still valid while the Darkseid part is seemingly not?

And the question to top all: Why should I bother to figure it all out when there are only one or two interesting story fragments to begin with?

Does anybody like this book? And why don't they just add some f***** explanations or synopsis at the beginning so you get a hunch of an idea what's going on???

Terrible...

I had a lot of the same questions myself, but assumed that I didn't know most of the answers either because I haven't been reading that many DC titles lately (and could well have missed the introduction of new characters, etc.), or because the answers would be provided later in the series.

The tiger next to Marvel Jr. is Tawky Tawny -- a longtime member of the Marvel family -- who has recently gone through a slight re-design to make him look a bit more realistic and less cartoony.

I do think a synopsis at the beginning of each issue would be helpful, though.

Another thought... I'd really be much more into Final Crisis if the issues came out faster. I think the long wait in between issues really kills the momentum, especially if you're not picking up any of the other tie-in titles.

Also, I've been getting the "red stripe" covers for Final Crisis, and looking at the first three issues next to each other, it seems the shade of red is getting darker with each issue. A nice touch...

DC UNIVERSE LAST WILL AND TESTAMENT: No real connection to FINAL CRISIS, though it's set on the night before a pivotal battle.

Some good scenes- Grace and Rocky (of the Challengers of the Unknown-- who has somehow or the other become a spiritual confessor to the heroes of the DCU)... Captain Cold playing hero... Clark and Pa Kent on a porch... glimpses of Wally and Linda, Oracle and Commisioner Gordan, Wildcats Senior and Junior, Liberty Belle and Hourman, a scene between Batman, Nightwing and Robin that didn't quite make sense to me, a page of Starfire that fairly shouts the poor girl *really* needs to move one, a great concluding panel with Wally and Hal Jordan...

... but the meat of the story is Geo-Force's struggle with a decision of what to do when he goes after Deathstroke. It's an interesting process and the conflict is full of twists and turns. I'm not sure yet what I think of the 'duel' yet, but I think it was told in a compelling way.

It certainly paints Prince Brion Markov in shades of gray. Murky ones, at that. Which finally makes him a fitting member of the OUTSIDERS (I never thought he belonged there, frankly). Maybe that was the purpose behind Geo-Force's story here.

ROGUE'S REVENGE 2: Weather Wizard is becoming quite the interesting fella, here. It was his turn.

Where I didn't enjoy the slaughter in this month's Teen Titans, here it didn't bother me at all.

I'm sort of worried for Piper, now. There's only one issue left, with a lot to resolve.

Inertia in the Kid Flash suit is just so wrong.

My normal CBS was completely sold out by early evening on Wednesday, so I was assuming I wouldn't get to read it. I tried a store a little farther away a few days later, and they had about 15 copies. (I've noticed odd discrepancies in issue demand among the stores around here.)

I liked this one-shot quite a bit. It definitely fleshed out Geo-Force for me -- and illuminated some other characters that I hadn't really been that familiar with.

Has anyone read SUPERMAN: BEYOND 3-D #1? It was weird, but compelling. All that exposition about the "bleedstorm," "ultramenstruum," "overshadow," "echo of midnight," etc. just seemed like meaningless babble. The characterizations were solid, though, and it was nice to see the old school Captain Marvel from Earth-5. (Is it me, or has Ultraman been everywhere these days?)

And no, I didn't detach the 4-D "overvoid viewers."

SUPERMAN:BEYOND -- Interesting new insights about the mechanics of the new DCU incorporating the Bleed. Cute Yellow Submarine reference. The "Quantum Superman" of Earth-4 (a version of Captain Atom that's more Dr Manhattan than Capt Atom) makes me wonder what the Question of Earth-4 is like. And what's with the Monitor/Vampire chick?

DCU:Last Will & Testament -- It seems wrong to me that this is used to wrap up Meltzer's Geo-Force/Deathstroke storyline. It was done well, but why here of all places? I would've preferred more scenes like the Superman/Pa Kent one, but with bigger characters than friggin' Geo-Force. The continuity's a little jarring too since I have no idea where within Final Crisis this is supposed to take place. The final page with Green Lantern makes it all worth it though.

Father Time heads the SHADE organaisation, seen in both "7 Soldiers" and "Freedom Fighters". Frankenstein was "recruited" in his part of 7 Soldiers.

The Brotherhood of Evil dropped a Chemo on it during Inifinte Crisis and destroyed the entire city. What's left is a stew of toxic waste.

We don't know yet, though Überfräulein is undoubtedly linked to Übermencsh from "Superman: Beyond"

Mr. Tawky Tawny has been a Marvel Family character for a long, long time.

Shiloh Norman, the World's Greatest Escape Artist and understudy for Scott Free (though it seems he doesn't remember Scott for some reason). He was the main character in 7 Soldiers: Mr. Miracle, which sets up a lot of the New Gods stuff we see here.
He's been around since the One Year Later stuff. The original Aquaman has been transformed into an underwater creature/demi-god of sorts who advises the new A-Man.
Bad editorial?

BTW, I'm diggin' it.

Thank you for answering my questions - nearly missed it as I was busy going on a holiday and bashing Final Crisis over on other boards like CBR

The series it all comes down to seems to be Seven Soldiers. As I hated nearly everything Morrison wrote over the last decade, I'm still not tempted to hunt these series down. But the question remains: How many of these Seven soldiers series have there been - and does DC really expect us to have read all of them to actually get into what the hell is happening in Final Crisis?

Just learned (over at the board, not by reading the first three issues) that there has been a war in heaven which Darkseid won. Of course it was nowhere to be seen, it happened off-panel. How ridiculous is that???

Seven.



There actually were two bookend books (#0 & #1) and then one four-issue series for each Soldier (Shining Knight, Manhattan Guardian, Klarion the Witch Boy, Bulleteer, Zatanna, Mr. Miracle and Frankenstein). I think the whole thing is collected across three TPBs, although if your shop is like mine, you can get the majority of the issues out of the cheap bins.

Which, in my opinion is exactly where they belong!

The Seven Soldiers event made about as much sense as digging a hole in your back yard and then refilling it for no reason whatsoever.

Final Crisis is starting to feel the same to me. The one shots and tie in series are much more understandable and enjoyable then the main series.

I guess I just don't get Grant Morrison and his pseudo intellectual claptrap. It's more fun to try to "see" the masterpiece created by a puddle of spilled tomato juice.

:barf:

I'm beginning to think I'll need a bong and some classic ELO playing in the background to make any sense of this.

I was gonna describe the storytelling in FC as "impressionistic," where you are required to assemble in your brain a coherent narrative from brief glimpses of things. But sometimes it's downright "pointilistic," or even "point-LESS-istic" as to what's goin' on and should I care. I generally like Morrison's stuff, in the same way that I liked Kirby's original 4th World series. But where Kirby had both grandeur and heart (if not coherent plot and dialogue), FC so far feels too small and too detached and clinical for the subject matter. Sitting at my desk as I type this, I can't remember WHY Shilo Norman is looking for Sonny Sumo, WHY Alan Scott activates the draft when he does, WHY Wonder Woman decides to go into Bludhaven. And until I read Morrison's Newsarama interview, I had no F-ing Clue what was goin' on with Montoya, Frankenstein and SHADE.

I'm glad that Legion fans seem to be on my side of "interpreting" Morrisons "masterwork". Over at CBR, it seems mixed - some people rally around Morrison and call it "challenging the reader". I rather call it "overexetring my patience". Like Doublechinner said, Morrison is just providing bits and pieces of a story and instead of feeling challenged (as I did by 5YL, for example), I constantly am asking the question "why should I care". Who is Shilo Norman, who is Sunny Sumo, who are 80% of the people running around in this series and why should I care for them when Morrison does not manage to make me care???

I think when you need half an hour of Internet research to find out what's actually going on in a comic book, then there's something rotten in the state of DC - and it's not Vee's tomato juice

Manhattan Guardian, Klarion the Witch Boy, Bulleteer???? I really have a big fondness for second stringer characters, but this is bordering on the ridiculous - no wonder that, aside from being written by Morrison which is a bad sign to begin with for me, it did not sparkle my interest when it came out.

As for cheap bins, unfortunately German comic books shops aren't big on cheap bins - my favorite shop doesn't have any of them left. We have to use German Ebay as a giant cheap bin, which is also a lot of fun

Wow! No FC review yet?! Have folks lost interest?

I picked up FC #4, and the companion book FC:Submit. Read Submit first if you get it. You don’t need it, but it’s a nice aside, and would have been a great way to fill in the gap between #3 & 4, timewise.

FC:Submit is the story of Black Lightning in the worldscape. We get an idea of how fractured the super-hero community is, but this focuses mostly on BL and his encounter with the Tattooed Man. It’s a great read, gives us a “street level” perspective on this event.

FC #4 picks up shortly after, with the Ray making his return to the DCU. He’s delivering the Tattooed Man to the Hall of Justice, understaffed as it is. This issue shows us the scope of destruction done by the Anti-Life Equation. Our usual heroes are fractured, split across the globe, missing some of their biggest names. They plot to mount a rally, but you get the sense it’s so very little and so very late. We see Barry and Wally reunite, and face off with the Female Furies last seen in FC#3. And we see Dan Turpin resist his possession by Darkseid. Only not so much.

It’s grim and it’s dark and not cheery. The mix of artists is kept to story breaks, so it’s not killing any mood or momentum. I like both Jones and Pacheco, so it’s all good work to my eyes.

Aside from The Ray's return (which was great), and the goodbye between Black Canary and Green Arrow, I'm left cold by FC proper.

I'm pretty much sick of this variation of the New Gods. There's no surprises-- heroes are being corrupted/mind-controlled. We're told it's widespread, so it isn't a surprise when any individual hero gets one of those helmets slapped on their head.

What they've done with Mary Marvel just sickens me-- but at least she's not singled out anymore. So far, this doesn't seem at all worthy of the title 'FINAL' Crisis. I don't believe for a second that any of these changes are going to last beyond a year or so.

I echo many of thoughts here. Seven Soldiers was pretty good. I read it recently to help me understand Final Crisis.

Sadly I don't understand Final Crisis. Gods reincarnated as humans has been done to death! No editor should allow it. Marvel did it with Thor in the past and currently. They are doing it with the Eternals currently. Now Morrison with the New Gods. ugh.

The changing of artists I didn't like either.

The Ray was the only bright spot for me.

DC has been trying to milk the Infinite to Final Crisis thing for to long.

Aside from the involvement of "new gods," the premise of final crisis seems very legion-of-the-damned to me.

I ave a feeling all this will be turned on it's head, especially given the events in Superman Beyond, which imply there is a bigger Crisis occurring unseen while everyone worries about Darkseid (it also states their are similar Crisis's going on in each of the 52 Universes). It will either be very interesting or very frustrating when the heroes finally take it to Darkseid in Issue 6 only to have it end with the real threat rearing it's head.

Still haven't got #4 so no comment from me about it, but I'm really not very keen on reading it - hearing about another hardly known character like the "Tatooed Man" popping up doesn't exactly make me excited about the story. There's enough third-stringer characters running around in Final Crisis to ruin the experiernce for me. I really feel some kind of aggressiveness creeping up when I'm talking about FC thus far. Morrissons way of hardly showing anything makes me mad.

Turpin's tranformation was nice and creepy - the art really conveyed a sense of horror about Darkseid's return. Too bad the same can't be said for the attention paid to the slew of turned heroes. Their completely uniform look drained the threat of real drama. I'm sure it would've just sent the artwork back even later, but it's hard to ignore that lack of detail when over in "Secret Invasion" they at least give all those Skrulls unique amalgam looks of their own. It doesn't help that Wonder Woman's squad and Black Lightning still maintain some semblance of their old costumes. (since they were more than background I guess they rated having more attention)

Well, it's obvious now how this crisis can be resolved.

Just have Barry Allen kiss everyone who's infected with Anti-Life!

I didn't bother buying "Submit" because it was so narrowly focused on Black Lightning (and The Tattooed Man). "Resist" is apparently focused on Mr Terrific and Checkmate. I'm sorry, but for something that's supposed to be important enough to rate the "Crisis" moniker, I want to see the more important characters of the DCU.

I'm just getting so fed up with all this build up for stories that take way too long to tell that are only "important" because we're told they are when the stories themselves lack drama and plot.

I liked both Submit and Resist (though I liked Submit better). I'm still not sold on Mr. Terrific's Checkmate involvement, but it wasn't too bad (obligatory Rucka "matureness" aside). Both stories flesh out the Post-Anti-Life world rather well.

Why do I feel that "Submit" and "Resist" are the ONLY stories we're going to see about the "Post-Anti-Life-Equation" world despite how "important" this is all supposed to be?

Can we say, "a whole crap-load of sound and fury signifying NOTHING?!?!?!?!"

Dan Didio derails FINAL CRISIS plans--editorial interference!!

Per Rich Johnson:
IT'S ARMAGEDDON 2001 ALL OVER AGAIN
A familiar source known collectively as "New York comics industry employees talking in bars" tells me that the last issue of "Final Crisis" is further delayed as it is suffering from serious rewrites. It appears that DC Executive Editor Dan DiDio was unhappy with the way the story concluded and the implications for the DC Universe for a while and had ordered changes from a, naturally, rather unhappy Grant Morrison. Considering this is the way he wrote the pitch for the book.

As a result, creative teams working on a number of spinoff and affected books have also had to stop work while the “Final Crisis” ending is reworked.

Expect more lateness, more annoyance and less likelihood of Grant Morrison doing DCU work in the near future.

Batman #682 Spoilers

FINAL CRISIS TIE-IN

...

...

...

...

...

We find out that they are trying to download Batman's badass psyche and fighting skills into the Lump and a whole bunch of Apokoliptian soldiers created by Mister Symian and Mister Mokkari.

Notice the Great Darkness reference in #5? "Six billion eyes!" Heh.

Okay, so is the guy on the last page supposed to be the new metron, or the new highfather? Somewhere highfather will return. As light must always have dark, dark must always have light. Each is meaningless without the other for contrast.

Which kinda makes Darkside pointless if you think about it.

"I, Darkside, have taken over the world, the universe. All is me, and I am all. The world is me, six billon eyes my flesh...oops, gotta go. Which slave is gonna wipe by butt....dammit, they are all me. I gotta do everything around here!"

Humor aside, if Darkside is everything, then, he becomes good. Think about it, he is "evil", but he is everything. So, evil becomes the norm. Being "good" by our moral standards would be evil in a universe that is Darkside. Therefore, he would no longer be the God of Evil. He would, in fact, become the God of Right. Therefore, his purpose would be moot.

Never really got that about world conquerers. Okay, you've conquered the world. Now what? What new goals are there to pursue other than the constant wary and watchfullness that would be required to prevent assinnation. This would eventually lead to stiltifying paralysis. And in this paralysis, a new order would arise that, in the Darkside case, would be considered evil.

What's the point?

Does anyone else think that those sketches of Doc Fate might have something to do with Superman Beyond #2, or is that a red herring?

Pretty sure Metron is still Metron, sitting there hax0ring Rubik's cubes into Mother Boxes.

Nix Uotan is just the new Monitor, I think, hence why his head is surrounded by *cough* monitor screens. He's the first of the race of Monitors to embrace the power of narrative instead of trying to resist it.

Ergh. Like i say, FC has been okay, but between the delays and the RIP stuff, Grant seems off his game lately, to me anyway.

I'm pretty sure the delays are because of Darkseid cracking time and space around Earth with his fall, like they mentioned in #5. Everything's been so screwy with the shipping, that's probably it. Well, I'll just be happy when Legion of 3 Worlds #1 comes out.

Final Crisis Secret Files: Sketches

We see...

Mary Marvel, the Justifiers, Captain Adam the Quantum Superman, the Wonder Wagon, Doc Fate, Overman, Overgirl, Mandrakk, Superdemon, Weeja Dell, and Aquaman.

Overman is Karl Kant, who landed in Czechoslovakia in 1938. He turned the tide against the US in the 50s. His Justice League is comprised of Leatherwing, Brunhilde, and Underwater Man, and they fight Uncle Sam and His Freedom Fighters.

Overgirl is not Overman's ACTUAL cousin. She's the only child who survived the experiments the Nazis performed on children using his DNA. Besides some horrible aberration called the Antihuman. It's not surprising that the Nazis would name something the Antihuman and call their Aquaman UNDERWATER MAN, considering their leader was an art school reject.

Mandrakk and Dax Novu are the same person.

Weeja Dell is the Monitor of Earth-6.

Superdemon is the demon Etrigan, sent to Earth from the doomed planet Kamelot, and merged with Jason Blood, the son of a Midwestern preacher. He lives on an Earth described as a "spooky Halloween world where magic and science co-exist".

So wouldn't the Japanese/asian crew be the Forever People? Sammy Sumo as big bear, etc?

Sorry, i'm not what i would call a stupid person, i get most things with a little explaination, but this work is leaving me cold....and i don't like to say that about Morrison's stuff.

Just saw where there was a Danny the Street DP issue that he wrote but was never published. Maybe i'll get lucky with that being published.

BTW, I did a Secret Files one-shot about Overgirl if anyone's interested, since this is a Final Crisis thread.

And did you mean that Street Lantern story. Yeah, I REALLY wish they'd publish that.

I think Grant has said that the Super Young Team is a stand-in for both the Forever People and the Newsboy Legion (remember the Whiz Wagon?). Sonny Sumo, though, would be himself, as he teamed up with the Forever People early on in their series (and could actually use Anti-Life).

Thanks, Rouge. I didn't know that about them or Sonny. Learn something new every day.

Does anyone else feel like this is just an extended ELSEWORLDS story?

The DCU's really gonna be reconfigured by this?

It seems so... removed. Distant. Cold.

I thought SECRET INVASION was drawn out...

Hopefully, some good stories will come of it.

I think the problem is the way this has been structured. Everything I'm reading seems to point to "Superman: Beyond" being essential to the whole story, both in terms of explaining what's really going on, and introducing the main villain behind everything (who isn't Darkseid, BTW). I just think when Superman and the other voyagers return in FC #7 and there's this huge conflict with Mandrakk displacing the Darkseid plot, alot of people are going to be incredibly confused.

They should have made this 9 or 10 issues and rolled the "Superman: Beyond" stuff into the main stories (keeping the separate artist for the Superman portions).

Just read it. We do indeed get the "final" fate of batman this issue.

I wont spoil it other than to say "redux".

Things are tying together, but a bit of it seems to be a rehash, with familiar scenes redone with different characters tied to the first crisis.

Better, but the book still isn't delivering on the "big new earth" thing.

So.... that's what happens to Batman hm? How is that supposed to tie into R.I.P. timing-wise?

This has been happening a lot lately in terms of how plots are written these days, but it only feels like we should be two-thirds through the story rather than almost at the end.

With the "BIG" events happening in this series (Barry Allen, Martian Manhunter, Batman) all those scenes just seem like plotpoints being checked off, lacking real characerization.

This happens Post "RIP" and at the same time as "Last Rites".

- Batman and Hurt go down in the Helicopter Crash (RIP)
- Batman makes his way back to the Batcave (Last Rites)
- Before he really even gets settled he's called in by the JLA to help investigate Orion's murder (Last Rites)
- While investigating the murder he's captured by Granny Goodness (Final Crisis)
- Simyan and Mokkari use the Lump to try and break Batman and clone him for an army of Super Soldiers (Last Rites)
- Batman, defeats the Lump, frees himself and drives all the potential clones insane (Last Rites & Final Crisis)
- Batman Confronts Darkseid with the same God-Bullet he used to kill Orion. They both appear to kill each other (Final Crisis).

I have to say I'm glad I decided to sit this one out (in protest of turning Mary evil, at least she was only possessed but I still don't see the POINT of that entire ordeal)

It just sounds like a series that would have driven me insane, I have a personal pet peeve with comics that are put out monthly but only really work as a whole, if you're putting it out in a serialized format than each section of the serial needs to be strong.

Plus (and of course I'm not reading the book, just summaries, spoilers, and occasional flip through at stores) I don't think any of the "impact events" are working for me, cause I'm still not certain what the stories about.

Well, I could fill a page with the "What it's about" part, but in terms of "event as a whole" writing, this is Grant Morrison we're talking about. I can't think of anything he's written that's not meant to be taken as a whole to get full effect, even before the era of "write to the collection" he was doing complex, interconnected works. I recognise he's a very polarising writer (I personally dig his stuff), but DC should also have known that before they put him on point for this.

I think the RIP storyline is the issue. It was a fine story, but by billing it as a huge event, giving it the RIP title, it's been blown out of proportion. It's not the death of Batman story, it's the lead up to it. Granted, if you don't read FC, you need to think of RIP as the death of Bats.

Now the thunder has been stolen from FC, both in the delay and the marketing of RIP. The two stories are related, but not necessary reading for either one. Anyone reading RIP, skipping FC, and continuing the Batbooks would think Bats died in the RIP finale, like everyone else in the Batbooks (Alfred excepted.) Anyone reading FC and not reading RIP wouldn't be missing anything since the death is in FC.

If FC and RIP had run simultaneously as planned, I don't think there would be as much confusion. Such is the issue with scheduling snafus...

Nice to have that confirmed

I LOVED every single issue of Seven Soldiers (except for the mondo-disappointing last one.)

I LOVED every single issue of Batman: RIP and most of Morrison's issues leading up to and after it too.

I LIKED the first two or so issues of Final Crisis.

I DISLIKED the next few.

And I've HATED the last couple.

With one issue to go, I'll hold off on giving a final analysis of the book - but six of seven issues in I think it's a huge disappointment.`

Final Crisis #7 preview!

http://www.newsarama.com/php/multimedia/album.php?aid=25503

Can't wait. Looks like this flows pretty smoothly out of "Superman: Beyond", with Captain Marvel and the Ultima Thule showing up, along with the Question from FC:6. Hope it all comes together.

All I heard from the comic shops I frequent and fan reaction on the internet was how impenetrable and ridiculous Superman: Beyond was. Well, I just finished it, and actually, its probably the single best part of Final Crisis thus far, I think. Now the rest of the event…

Superman: Beyond was amazing. I'm still thinking about that last page a week later. I'm hoping some of that bleeds (no pun intended) into the last issue of the series proper.

Ah, great. Two more i$$ues I gotta try and find.

So, it's over. I already said how I feel about it on the DC forums. What say you?

i say i'm really confused. and i don't think it's my fault.

reading this makes me feel angry and tired.

this must be what it's like for a dog watching tv. there's words and pictures but it's all very bewildering. and every now and then you go "i know that person...oh they're gone. who's that.. what. what....i thought batman died in that other book..."

were the other crisis things like this...? this is my first crisis that i've actually bought and read and i think it made me physically ill.

Don't get me started. I'm still ticked off at them for killing Supergirl. [rolleyes] Sure, it was all comprehensible, but that didn't help my mood any.

Well, I think Morrison picked that up when he killed Overgirl.

I liked it, personally. There were some problems, but, it was good. For me at least.

.......i'm not crazy <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text"> he DID kill darkseid with a song</span></span> right? right?

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">I don't think it was a song just high pitched notes, and someone can't spell a Tyroc "OOOOYY EEEEEEI OOUUU!"</span></span>

My problem with this issue? Captain Carrot.

My problem with this who series? Same as will all other Crises- A bunch of lame heroes we don't now and never will care about taking up 75% of the issues. And I'm sure as heck not picking up "Revelations" or "Rogues Revenge" or any of that other crap. So how did they get the mask off Wonder Woman? Who are these kids getting the bedtime story?

Sigghh.

"Crisis on Infinite Earths" was actually very comprehensible. But it was done with very specific reasons in mind (reordering/rebooting the DCU), as opposed to just being done for a high profile writer to show off how clever he is (which is all I'm getting from what I read of Final Crisis.)

The two high profile deaths (Barry Allen and Supergirl) seemed to be done not just to show off how super-scary the bad guy was. Barry's death let Wally step up and replace his mentor which was a novel concept then, and Supergirl was soon to be gotten rid of anyway due to John Byrne's notions of making Superman more unique. At least with "Crisis" she got to go out a hero. And the deaths actually stuck for a surprisingly long time as opposed to Batman's wink, wink death.

Also, the lead-ups and tie-ins to "Crisis on Infinite Earths" were mostly limited to the regular titles, as opposed to requiring additional miniseries purchases just to make heads or tails of it. The downside of COIE was that it left a lot of those books floundering, and the followthrough on the DCU revisions were not well organized.

I could rant on, but I think the problems with "Final Crisis" have as much to do with the way the industry works now versus 20 years ago as it does the problems with the actual story. Comics were still at least partially expected to be read by actual kids, and there was more emphasis on clarity and story mechanics. Now they're focusing on a shrinking base and stuck on a no-win cycle of trying to top themselves by making each more "epic" than the last.

i couldn't have said it better myself.

they shoulda called it crappy crisis.

i can't gather my patience to write more of a critique than that. it better be final.

but wasn't there one monitor for the multiverse before??

my very most favorite part:

"the story of the death of batman. of how just a man, had fatally wounded the god of evil. and what we stood for."


guns!! guns!! that's what they stood for! batman hated guns and he died in a shootout. ugghh. sorry i have to go vomit now.

FWIW: Rogues would be comprehensible to any Flash fan and IMO was very good even with only a fleeting knowledge of what was going on in the other books. It helped to know the baddies were attempting to recruit them and why.

I think Matt you make an excellent point. So much has been lost in the craft of story-mechanics and making plots accessible to readers. Not even dialogue or pacing (which has also changed) but the putting together a comprehensible story that moved from part to part in a clear way even when it was extremely complicated. This is the prime reason why the first Crisis was so great; and also why so many subsequent crossovers have failed.

i feel like morrison's problem is that he wants to write PROSE book SO SO MUCH. SO MUCH.and also he doesn't really care to write about these particular characters so it's like.. square peg round hole...

...also he can't write very well~ <3

this was so bizarre and stupid that LSH 50 is comforting in a way...

beer, you're my only friend now

We're your friends too..especially if you have beer!

I'm sorry, I just couldn't. 52 and Countdown ruined me, I'm just not interested in the crossover d'jour after those incredible pieces of crap.

DC has made it damned difficult to follow a single storyline anymore. I wanted to get the New Krypton story but where do you start? What books are the story crossed over into? They lost me and I haven't got a clue where a jumping on point is.

I likes me my comics but I don't do much Marvel at all and it feels like DC just doesn't want my money anymore. I guess I'm going back to collecting mainly the independents and the Legion (if there is one)

I have just one question. Was this better than Countdown?

YK: awww, yellow. <3 i'll call you yellow-kid-the-beer. <3

YOU HAVE TO READ ALL OF THEM! follow the numbers in the little green triangle!! and don't worry if you miss one, because they summarize at the beginning of each issue <3. well, just wait for the trade! i liked it a lot <3

also i LOVED rogues revenge, it reads like any other flash arc, except it's villains and it takes place during crisis but it doesn't NEED to, it's really just a cool rogues story <3 it was really neat.

god. i'm just glad it's OVER. really, i guess FC is just a "GUYS! GUYS, WE'RE THROWING SOME STUFF OUT, OK?" memo. it could have been a giant bookmark they gave out for free, really...

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text"> did anyone else think he was just going to USE the frigging miracle machine?!! not... rebuild it... why... why did he rebuild it. why. that's like my friend showing me her screwdriver when i need one. and then i have to go build one instead of borrowing hers. the problem with it is that like... now anything f-ed up in this new world will be superman's fault... "well honey, you have no legs because superman didn't wish for you to have them...i guess superman hates you".</span></span>

I loved it, and thought it was a good capping of the series. Superman: Beyond was still the best part (and essential to understanding the standoff at the end). If I have time on the weekend I'd like to try a page by page accounting of what's going on and see if other people picked up the same things I did. Sorry a lot of you didn't dig it.

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Except that the screwdriver you build could only be used once to fix what you needed to and then would never be available to accidently stick into the electrical outlet and short out the entire city</span></span>

Not that I've even done that or anything.

So other than circumstances surrounding Batman, what else is changed for the DCU as read in non-Morrison penned titles?

I kind of liked #7 in a dispassionate sort of way. But it still reads like a stand-alone Elseworlds sort of story to me. And I found it cold, cold, cold.

I liked the Captain Carrot bit- I think it was supposed to represent the scope of the DCU, though the thought needed some repetition to really be effective.

I think the art failed that near-concluding segment. As the 'good' Monitor (I guess he's good, I'm not really sure) kept adding to his list of champions and they appeared- the prospect should've seemed bigger and bigger.

I don't think the grandeur in the words and the plot at that point came across.

That last page or two- is that meant to be way back in time? Or just in a cave in Australia or somewhere?

^^^ We don't all live in caves in Australia you know!

(I know what you meant Mystery Lad but it just brought back funny memories of when I was first at college in Ohio and people would ask me if we had grass in Australia. Or pizza. Or if everyone had a pet kangaroo.)

I need to give the latest issue another read before I come to a definitive conclusion about it. So far, I think I liked it more than the last few but first impressions are that it was a disappointing and nigh-on incomprehensible finale and a let-down after (what I considered to be) an interesting build-up in the first few issues.

As for the original 'Crisis on Infinite Earths' - that is the MACK-DADDY of event comics and still the BEST! Its story, characterisation and art (of course) still stand head and shoulders above Final Crisis and the suck that was Infinite Crisis. I don't get how Marv Wolfman and George Perez could get something so right more than 20 years ago that today's writers seem to have so much trouble with.

Much as I love it though - it's a tough book to sell to new readers. The grandeur and impact of it will have undoubtedly been tarnished by the multitude of subsequent inferior "events" and if you don't have a widespread knowledge of (or at least interest in) the many different worlds and characters and elements that exist within the DCU you might find yourself a little bit lost or bored.

By the way, this is an excellent analysis of what Morrison was trying to do with this series I think.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=19743

It does make a lot of sense to me now and I think I can respect the work a lot more for it but it just doesn't change the fact that there were a lot of parts to this story that I just didn't *enjoy*.

And for all his post-modern cleverness isn't that the one thing GM was supposed to be doing for me.

You know, I really do love the ideas Morrison plays around with and the grand scope he achieves here. I loved Kirby's works, too, for the same reasons. But, forgive me for being an annoying fanboy, but the at the heart of the story (like the multiverse) is a big black hole. Why DID all this happen, anyway?

There are 2 parallel stories happening here: Darkseid's "downfall" to earth and his "plan" to "control" all creation. Then, there is the story of the Monitors and Mandrakk, who is apparently the original Monitor from COIE, corrupted and evil.

Why 2 parallel stories? Both are plenty big enough for one event comic, for goodness sakes! To use both, you kinda need to have them linked, and they really aren't. For all my reading of this stuff, they happen coincidentally. Just because it would be cool.

Furthermore, the whole place and role of the New Gods is now more muddied than ever. What ARE they, exactly? What is their relation to the Multiverse? These weren't even questions in Kirby's day, or in the post-Kirby use of the 4th World. But, by conflating these 2 parallel stories, Morrison's leaves me the reader horribly confused. I am perfectly comfortable with the idea of the 4th World ending. After all, Kirby showed how the 4th World proceeded from an earlier pantheon of gods, so you are not surprised when Ragnarok befalls this group. Again, I'm pretty unclear how and why it happens when and how it does. Morrison totally punts this one: "war in heaven, evil won." Ooookaaayy. No how or why, or why now? Again, it just happens, 'cause it'll be cool.

But okay, somehow Darkseid is the last god standing, and uses that opportunity to try and take over the universe, starting on earth, of course. But the end of the 4th World eventually comes for him, with mortal heroes as the standard bearers. It has a certain predictable flow to it, but that's okay. Predictable stories can still be good ones. But how and why does Darkseid relate to the multiverse? It seems pretty obvious that New Gods, Darkseid and 4th world stuff are specific to "earth-0," since none of the other multiverse earths glimpsed in Final Crisis seem to have Darkseid problems. So we are back to one of the most nagging problems in integrating Kirby's creations into the DCU -- why are they specific to the main DCU? And why does Darkseid's fall, or indigestion, or kidney stones, have ANY affect on the multiverse? "It's cool" just isn't a good enough explanation.

Finally, the monitors. The one monitor and has anti-part had an origin in COIE, and an ending. Morrison wanted to play with the toys some more, though, and I DO love the idea of the monitors as a corrupted embodiment of the formless, changeless "bulk" from which the multiverse springs, corrupted by the seduction of creation, change and destruction in that multiverse. What should be changeless, unaware and unemergent becomes entangled with the temporality it birthed, sets it self up as gods, overseers, caretakers, but is really parasitically destroying that creation. That, my friends, is a sprockin' awesome story, with all sorts of fun meta-references to creators, readers, fans, editors, and the like, but it happens mostly in the margins here. Sigh.

So, in the end, Darkseid is dead, really dead(?), the monitors have dissolved back into nothingness, having overstayed an invitation that shouldn't have been issued in the first place. There's a 5th World that don't look no different from the 4th, 'ceptin' it's missing the bad guys. I mean, who cares? The best thing you could say for all of this is that Darkseid is really, really dead, so we won't see him again. His final appearance was genuinely evil, worthy of the most evil of evil gods, and now he's gone. Who really believes that will last long? The monitors are gone, but they shouldn't have come back anyway, and who's gonna miss them after this mess and that Countdown dreck? And the New Gods seem to be exactly where they always are, just out there, now with no purpose at all, since their main purpose was to always stalemate Darkseid. If we see them again (and I really hope we don't), unless Morrison is writing them, they'll be as mediocre as they have been since DC forced Kirby to abandon them.

This was all just too much, even for Morrison. There were potentially good stories to tell here, but they didn't belong together, and they tripped all over each other by the end of it.

And a couple of final rants. First, Batman. I really liked RIP, and I plan on re-reading the whole Morrison run now because now that I see what's going on, it's cool. But c'mon, Morrison's Batman (like his Superman), always finds a way. And yet his Batman SHOOTS Darkseid?!?!? With a GUN?!?!?!?! Was that really the only way? Second, Darkseid. He's shot with the radion bullet. He's Black Racered. But he's still not dead? Still hangin' around taunting Superman, and Superman sings him to oblivion?!?!?? Again, just a teeny tiny bit of narrative might have made sense of this. But I sure can't.

Sings?
You have got to be kidding.
O.
M.
G.

[snark]
I figure Paula's a sucker, she likes good looking guys, but either Randy or Simon must have given Clark a free pass.
When's his CD coming out?
[/snark]

Crap.
I was considering buying this, I haven't got a clue who Overgirl is and she sounds kind of cool (in a limited one-shot way) but you just might have convinced me to save my money.

Overgirl is the Supergirl of Earth-10. She isn't Overman's ACTUAL cousin, but she's the only kid who survived the Nazis experiments to seed a human child with his DNA.

psst, anyone else not care at all about nazi superman? i think that whole concept is dumb, i just get so annoyed when i see nazis in things like.. ugghhghg @______@ that just makes me hate that superman really hard. guhh *whinewhinewhine*

i think superman should use his singing power more often.

ok seriously? someone explain what's up with batman. i...i am so angry at how bewildering that is. EXPLAIN TO ME, BEER. I MEAN, FRIENDS. i will give you a dollar.

At least Overman wasn't doing it for "za fahzahland!"

And besides, at least he's better than the LAST Overman.

Beer?

Oh wait. I get it. I'm not much enamored with the Nazi Superman either. I'd rather read an Ultraman story any day.

But singing? Aaarrrggg. Batman sings, I saw it in a cartoon. Why not make Supes do a comedy routine instead? Tell Darkseid terrible jokes until Omega beams shoot out his nose, granite face cracks a smile and literally cracks and crumbles to rubble.

"Hey, is that power absorbtion rod in your pocket or are you happy to see me?"

"Yo mamma's so fat she makes her own gravity well."

"So, you ever get caught spankin' the monkey in a Fire Pit? Good hiding place isn't it?"

Cripes. Have Johns give me a call, we may be able to work something out.

Re the singing - I don't ever know what Morrison's up to but maybe it's a reference to Kirby's original 4th world story. Izaya's wife Avia implores him to sing and he replies that he can't yet ... i.e. he's devoted to war and singing is for peace. Then Darkseid or his uncle (I forget exactly) appears and kills Avia, and the war begins that will end with Izaya turning into Highfather. So maybe the singing thing represents the triumph of peace over war, and good over evil.

Thanks FC. If that's what it all meant then that's kinda cool. Too bad that couldn't be referenced/explained in the actual series.

This helps me in my therapy regarding last week's books.

The Omega Sanction doesn't kill you it forces you live out increasingly more difficult and horrific lives, often in different points throughout time. Mr. Miracle went through it and escaped (in Seven Soldiers: Mr. Miracle), and the original Sonny Sumo went through it and was sent back to Feudal Japan where he died (although his mastery of the Anti-Life Equation may have let him die peacefully). So Batman, hit with the Sanction, has been sent back to pre-historic Earth. If Shiloh found a way out, than batman probably can too (no doubt around the time Morrison and Quietly start working on Batman later this year).

I should clarify. I thought the singing was kind of cool, and if anyone's singing can destroy Darkseid, it's Superman's. FC, thanks SO much for reminding us of the original New Gods source material. My main complaint was that there wasn't enough story to make clear what was happening. First, Batman shoots Darkseid with the radion bullet (did radion come from the original Kirby? I can't remember). Okay, the poisoning from Radion doesn't kill quickly, especially with Darkseid, the story DID make that clear. But then, the Flashes go to ALL THIS EFFORT to direct the Black Racer at Darkseid. Always and before, Black Racer means instant, irrevocable death for a New God. But THEN, Darkseid's still hanging around taunting Superman!?!?!? First, doesn't that just make the Flash's supreme effort absolutely meaningless?!?!?!? Why would you do that to your own story?!?!?! So, you better have some damn explanation for it. One might be that Darkseid's essence had permeated all of what was left of the universe, and Superman's "singing" was the restoration of the multiverse's natural, Darkseid-free vibrations--the good "music of the spheres" referenced at the beginning with the totally cool black Superman president. Thus, the Black Racer killed Darkseid's body, and Superman wiped out his remaining stench on the universe. BUT, if that's the case, why does Superman reference Darkseid as at the last stages of radion poisoning? I love cosmic, trippy stories, and they DON'T have to drown in exposition (I'm lookin' at you, Starlin). But the narrative here is completely lost. I know Morrison would argue, "oh, that's Mandrakk drainin' the story of the multiverse" or something, but THAT'S not an appropriate approach to storytelling. It just looks lazy and contradictory. Just like Hourman showing up wounded on a stretcher on 1 panel in FC #6 and in battle on the next friggin' page! The basic coordination of words and story here (the essential function of EDITORS) just completely breaks down. I don't know how Morrison could be proud of that, especially when we have plenty of recent examples of his work that DO make sense.

I was wondering if there was a 'Life Equation' that would cancel out the Anti-Life Equation and that maybe was the 'tune' that Superman was singing.

I guess I was overthinking things, as usual.

Maybe Darky-poo was just cranky and needed a lullaby so that he'd go nappy-times like a good apocalyptic grumpy-puss up past his naptime...

Ok, it seems to have struck a chord (pun intended) so I'll calm down on the singing issue. To me, the idea of using sound as a weapon just doesn't work well in a print medium. Dazzler, Tyroc, Black Bolt and even Black Canary don't do anything for me at all unless it's a story showcasing their martial arts skills rather than showing off their powerful vocals that I can't (and never will) hear.

I'll admit however that the early set up with the Piper placed the concept strongly into the narrative and does actually make this ending make a kind of sense (whether I like it or not).

OK, everything in the multiverse works on vibrational frequency. In the end, Darkeid's dying essence had infected virtually all of the universe. Since the Universe was set to a certain frequency, Superman destroyed it with a counter-vibration that essentially canceled it out. That counter-frequency is depicted as some kind of "Super Musical Note".

I recall the book specifically mentioning a "Life Equation" but I don't have it in front of me. I'll check tonight. Might have just been my mind trying to make sense of it.

Like any Morrison story, it reads much better as a whole. And yeah, DC should have included the Superman Beyond mini as part of the series. I encourage everyone to re-read again.

So many wild ideas- Super Young Team, the story of the Monitors, Darkseid's fall and rise and fall again, the Life Equation as a song (I'm learning about math in music now) - it's almost too much for 7 issues. And sadly, they won't be used by DC.

I liked FC very much.
Especially the way the story devolved into non-linear and sometimes "didn't really happen because of the end" sections. At first I was majorly confused, and then I realised 'time is breaking... cooool' and all was fine from there.
Of course I needed to read each issue perhaps 4 times to finally get there, but as far as I'm concerned, that's great value for money!

The thing I disliked about it was the wider links and immersion in the greater DCU. Darkseid took over the world, and there was barely a mention in the monthly titles? I understand that crossovers can often clutter a monthly book's run, but... Darkseid took over the world! C'Mon!
The links between R.I.P. and Final Crisis were handled abysmally.
The lack of control over tardy old J.G. should have never happened. And while I liked it, I'm sure Grant's story could have been editorially tightened if DC weren't so scared of losing him.

rouge: oh my god, you're my hero, thanks for explaining that.

unfortunately that also makes me violently sad and angry. !

man i just don't like reading a book where i need wikipedia open, the dc encyclopedia balanced on my knee, and well, resorting to offering a fiver on a message board in desperation.

legion is one of my few minutia riddled nightmares, thank you, and at least legion doesn't necessitate that i know ACTUAL history of the DC-THE-COMPANY as opposed to DC-THE-UNIVERSE.

*weeps* i... i don't care about kirby's characters. at all. and all i see when i look at darkseid is a "really powerful" guy that lives in a cave and only has one outfit and like, one chair.

am i the only one who didn't think writing a love letter to kirby and the 4th world was appropriate for something that RESETS THE ENTIRETY OF THE DC UNIVERSE. i thought, you know, maybe this series should focus on... i dunno, SUPERMAN, BATMAN AND MAYBE WONDERWOMAN (the latter being someone everyone is pretending is a vital character but utterly isn't).

like... superman only showed up for like 8 pages total in this nightmare. where did he go while all hell was breaking loose?!!

now i have to ignore even more batman until all this blows over.

Um... Superman Beyond #1-2 and Legion of Three Worlds #1-5?

Like veryvery I've never been a big fan of Kirby's DCU concepts (not that I don't like them - just that I've never thought they meshed with the rest of the DCU particularly well) so one thing that I'm at least thankful for Final Crisis for is that it has relegated them all to their own Universe (51) where I hope they can flourish on their own.

Which leads me to the next big positive - no more Darkseid in the DCU! YAY! Now hopefully DC can remember that they have other cool intergalactic villains like Starbreaker and Hyathis and Starro and so on out there.

Oh if only Darkseid had taken that other over-exposed to the point of irrelevance character, Joker, with him though!

One thing that still confuses me about Final Crisis however is - what the heck happened to Hawkman, Hawkgirl and Mr Terrific? Morrison seemed to single them out for erasure but - what for? Since no one ever mentioned them again.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=19863

Well, Kyle Baker is working on a new Hawkman series, and since Hawkman's always re-incarnating anyway, seems like that one won't last too long (hopefully Kendra gets back to basics too). I'm not too upset by this. I thought Johns' revamp was satisfactory, but I quickly grew bored of "Conan the Hawkbarian" and would really like to see the Thanagarian space-cop back.

Mr. Terrific's another kettle of fish entirely. I really liked the character and thought there was still more to be done with him.

Starbreaker is featured on the "Evil" cover of JLA, and Starro had both a part of the first Meltzer JLA story arc and a big story in Booster Gold. I hardly think they're forgotten.

OK, here is my attempt to annotate the last issue of Final Crisis to see if others read it the way I did or if there’s differing opinions on what happened at different parts of the story. It’s a little long, but I tried to keep it brief without a lot of editorialising. Let me know what you think.

Page 1: We are on one of the other 51 Earths, apparently a “52” equivalent of “Earth D” from Crisis on Infinite Earths 4.5 (see in Legends of the DC Universe) where all the heroes were of different ethnicities. “Vathlo” is an island on the Silver Aged Krypton where the black Kryptonians came from.

Page 2-3: There have been a few different amazons called Nubia in Wonder Woman history, this one is this Earth’s Wonder Woman. The “Music of the Spheres” they are hearing is the sound of the vibrational barrier between worlds in the multiverse (it’s been mentioned by the Monitor’s before), in this case it’s the sound of the Ultima Thule travelling between worlds.

The Ultima Thule is the “Multiverse Ship” from “Superman Beyond” where the Monitor Zilo Valla used it to gather heroes from the Multiverse to stop Mandrakk the Dark Monitor from returning.

Page 4: Captain Marvel of Earth 5 was one of Zilo Valla’s recruits. With her dead, he’s obviously taken command of the Ultima Thule and teamed with the Question of New Earth to gather an even bigger army of Supermen.

Page 5: We’re in the future now, and almost all of the universes have been consumed by Darkseid (We’ll see why later). In the middle of the page are Starman (JSA/Legion), Power Girl (JSA) and Frankenstein (SHADE/Seven Soldiers). In the bottom panel are the Metal Men from Earth 44 who are modeled after the Justice League.

Page 6-7: The top half is pretty straightforward I think, after the Metal Men attack, Lois and Jimmy decide to send out a rocket containing the story of the final Crisis in case there’s anyone out there.

The bottom row of panels show the remaining heroes fighting off the Metal Men before Luthor and Sivanna step in and destroy them. Lois and Jimmy launch the rocket in an homage to Superman’s origin.

Page 8: Back in the past now. Picking up right form the end of FC#6, Superman confronts a wounded Darkseid.

Page 9: Darkseid taunts Superman, letting him know that even when Turpin’s body dies, he’s already spread himself out into others via the Anti-Life equation.


Page 10: As Darkseid prepares to shoot the bullet that killed Orion, the Flashes arrive, still on the run from the Black Racer, who is a New Gods equivalent of the Grim Reaper.

Page 11: Darkseid fires the Bullet while the Flashes lead the Black Racer to Darkseid. I really like the panel where Superman’s standing still and the bullet’s going one way and the Flashes the other.

Page 12: The Flashes bring the Black Racer to Darkseid, confirming he will die from Batman’s bullet. The problem is Darkseid’s already spreading into everything, bringing his death with him. We’re going to see that it’s difficult to killl a god and all the heroes deliver different “Death Blows”. Now Batman and the Flashes have both contributed. Aquaman also comes back in a one panel scene that seems out of place. This is where we begin to see the narrative break down as the story of the Multiverse begins to die with Darkseid.

Page 13: Back in the future, Superman is designing the Miracle Machine, shown to him by Brainiac 5 last issue. He’s having the survivors build it, without letting anyone but him see the whole thing. He’s sitting in Metron’s Mobius chair.

Page 14: Back in the past. Darkseid’s Justifiers are attacking Checkmate’s Headquarters, guarded by an army of OMACs activated by Mr. Terrific in Final Crisis: Resist. The two Atoms are trying to keep the breach they made in the Bleed to Earth 51 open, while Lord Eye goes into emergency shutdown mode, attempting to take the tunnel with it.

Page 15: As Black Canary and Green Arrow lay dying in the ruins of the JLA Satellite, they see that the Ray has managed to draw the Life symbol given to them by the Tattooed Man on the face of the Earth (another brick in the wall against Darkseid). Meanwhile, Super Young Team is trying to get more survivors through the escape tunnel to Earth-51 before it collapses.

Page 16: The top panel is in the future, with Supergirl trying to tell the story of the Final Crisis to survivor children. Below we are back in the past as Hawkman and Hawkgirl die shutting down Lord Eye. Mr. Terrific appears to be lost as time collapses around him and the Super Young Team have one of their soap opera moments in the middle of a life or death situation.

Page 17 – As New Earth is consumed in the collapse, Mr., Miracle Boom Tubes everyone to Earth 51, where we see Kamandi looking on. Earth 51 was destroyed and remade in Countdown. It’s also where Sonny Sumo is originally from, he was brought to New Earth (“Earth 0”) to replace the original who died in Feudal Japan after being consumed by Darkseid’s Omega Sanction. Overman learns about his sister and creates an echoed scene form Crisis on Infinite Earths.

Page 18 – Back on Earth 0, a dying Darkseid calls in the cavalry in the form of his furies (possessing various female heroes and villains) and his Justifier army, unaware that Luthor has assumed control of them.

Page 19 – In the future Wonder Woman joins Supergirl in trying to tell the bedtime story. In the past we see Frankenstein, attack and purge the female heroes of their possession (he’s not alive and therefore poison to Morticoccus the God Virus).

Page 20 – The remaining heroes are miniaturizing the survivors and storing them in the Miracle machine as reality collapses around them.

Page 21- In the past wonder Woman, free from possession uses her lasso to bind Darkseid’s Human body, (another brick in the wall). The line “and no one was hurt” is obviously ironic as the scene shows the multitudes that make up Darkseid no in pain.

Page 22- Darkseid, bound and poisoned continues to bring all of reality down with him. As he gets closer to death he consumes more and more of the universe. He effectively is the universe now, with the exception of Superman and Miracle machine. Superman counters the vibrations of existence with a Single note, which effectively destroys Darkseid (and the universe along with him).

Page 23 – There is now nothing left but Superman and the Miracle Machine. He finds Element X, which powered Metron’s Mobius Chair and uses it to complete the Miracle Machine. Mandrakk is speaking at the bottom of the page.

Page 24- Mandrakk & Ultraman have been biding their time since the end of Superman: Beyond for this chance. Ultraman gave up his humanity to be Mandrakk’s servant after reading the Book of the Monitor. Mandrakk is a “Story Vampire”, who longs to end all stories (and the DC Universe is only a comic book story after all). In the middle of the page we see he has drained both Radient and the Spectre from “FC: Revelations”, while Ultraman has Supergirl, presumably to taunt Superman. Mandrakk notes without a Universe there is no energy to power the Miracle machine. Superman notes that he’s a solar battery.

Page 25 – Superman starts the Miracle machine and makes his one wish. We see the Green Lanterns are still outside the time singularity that Darkseid created trying to get in.

Page 26 – Captain Marvel’s Superman army arrives and fries Ultraman. There are more than 52 Supermen shown, but some are from the same Earth (Apollo and Majestic, for instance). The caption at the bottom on the page belongs to Nix Uotan, the exiled Monitor who Metron restored in issue number 5

Page 27 – Nix Uotan begins to bring allies in to help against mandrakk (similar to how the Monitor did against the Anti-Monitor). HE starts by reviving the Zoo Crew who were turned into “real” animals in their Final Ark Countdown mini-series. He then brings in the Pax Dei host of Angels from Morrison’s JLA and JLA: Paradise Lost runs, and finally the Green Lantern Corps arrives. Mandrakk identifies Nix Uotan as his son. Originally the Monitors were without story until mandrakk introduced narrative into their existence. Now they are beginning to develop their own stories and relationships. That Nix is now Mandrakk’s son is evidence Mandrakk’s plan is failing as new stories are starting to unfold.

Page 28- “Taaru” was the word the Forever people spoke to combine their essences together to form the Infinity Man. Here nix uses it to summon them (if you notice it is Super Young Team who have become the new Forever People). It may also be the word of power Nix lost when he was exiled. Together the heroes vanquish the Vampire.

Page 29 – The universe is restored, though obviously not completely as the humans begin to rebuild earth. Lois narrates again as we pull out to the Monitor’s point of view.

Page 30 – Nix Uotan gives his report of events and cautions against interfering with the humans again. “Zillo Valla” and “Rox Ogama” were killed in the fight with mandrakk in Superman: Beyond.

Page 31 – Here we see how Nix Uotan recreated Earth 51 and has moved the reborn New Gods there. Earth-51 now essentially becomes an “Earth Kirby” with most of jack Kirby’s creations (New Gods, Kamandi, OMAC) existing there.

Page 32 – Here he see Hermuz has usurped power from Tahoteh who has grown senile (another story progression). Nix is offered the chance to rejoin the Monitors, which he declines as he knows it’s meaningless – the Monitors will shortly cease to exist. He instead goes off to say goodbye to Weeja Dell, his lover from issue #1. the skyline of the Monitor’s world is now empty.

Page 33 – as the lovers say goodbye, even the panels of the page start to deteriorate. The Final Crisis of the Monitors is ending and they are fading form existence. Except….

Page 34 – Nix Uotan awakens in his human form back on Earth. The last Monitor in a self-aware mulitverse.

Page 35 – Anthro, gifted with Metron’s Knowledge as a boy in issue #1, nears the end of his life. He has spent his life refreshing stories so they may live. In the first panel we see the time capsule launched by Lois and Jimmy on page 7, implying that anthro has been perpetuating their story as well. As he dies, someone rest their utility belt across his chest.

Page 36 – Bruce Wayne, banished here by the Omega Sanction last issue, continues Anthro’s work and begins preserving his own story. The Omega Sanction, as seen in Mr. Miracle, doesn’t kill you but let’s you live out a series of worse and worse lives. Shiloh Norman escaped the Sanction; presumably Batman will try to find a way in June when Morrison picks up his story.

rogue, THANK YOU.

Grant Morrison owes you money for this.

Keven Church (BeaucoupKevin.com) posits:
So, what WAS that song Superman sang at the climax of [i]Final Crisis[/i] #7?

Yep.

It's sad that it takes this kind of effort to get G-Mo's story, much less appreciate it. I felt like I was expected to know who the hell Mandrakk was, and I hate that. Thanks for the "Cliff's Notes" rouge.

Here's a link to a REALLY good interview with Morrison at IGN.

http://comics.ign.com/articles/950/950703p1.html

Luckily for Morrison, he explains everything pretty much as Rouge did.

This definitely was the last Grant Morrison story I ever read. I never liked the things he did, neither Invisibles, nor JLA, nor Animal Man, even his celebrated All Star Superman left me cold. I just don't like his cold, unemotional characterization and his incoherent writing.

But Final Crisis really was the climax of jibberish in my eyes. Thanks to Rouge, it may be possible to get some sense into this mumbo-jumbo, but I really don't think it's the job of some Internet board pal to explain to me the convoluted mind of a writer who has clearly lost contact with reality - it should be the job of this particular writer. And inside the book, not later in the Internet.

It certainly didn't help that DC complicated matters by doing off-spins which in the end were more important to understand the main story than anyone admitted in the beginning. Madraxx - who the hell is he??? - am I right that he did not appear in the main Final Crisis series until right in the middle of the Final issue?

I really have problems getting over the fact that a celebrated writer managed to transform the annual DC event - this year, even potentially important to the future of the Legion franchize, the only reason to buy it for me once I heard Morrison was writing it - into some James Joyce comic lookalike which might please the oh so vocal Morrison disciples, but leaves a large crowd of regular DC universe fans with nothing but huge question marks over their heads...

I simply don't get why writing major plot developments by NOT showing them - off-panel writing, yeah it's sooooo cool - can be considered genius, but I never was one to get enthusiastic about experimental entertainment... well, I did love 5YL, but it did help to know all the characters back then. Final Crisis was about the Tatooed Man, Anthro, Turpin, rankensteins Monster, Mister Miracle - the one I did not know, a Japanese Super Team, lots of other third- and fourth-stringers, and in the end, I really am embarrassed to confess that I can not make out how this ending will affect the DCU in the months to come - or will it at all?

Another question which really made the book unsatisfying to me: How come Batman, who was subjugated by Darkseids minions, suddenly is there standing in front of Darkseid killing him with a special weapon? Off-panel writing again, genius I just can't cherish?

What exactly happened to Darkseid, and what happened to the Multiverse - does it still exist, and simply the orrery has vanished, or what? Can you reach parallel Earths easier now that the Monitors have faded - thank you so much Rouge for explaining that part to me! - or may it be even more difficult?

And an editorial question: How can DC dare to publish a story relying so heavily on some off-spin stories like Supes Beyond and Revelation, and totally omit any hint to what happened there in the main series? No "meanwhile", no "what happened in another book we wanted to shove down your throat", no "as some of you might know, Madraxx appeard elsewhere than in the main series..."

Simply nothing! Are they so arrogant to believe that every reader is buying any crap they throw on the market labeled "Final Crisis" just like a dumb sheep?

I really will downsize my monthly DC dosage considerably now. They will not get my hard-earned money any longer until someone has the decency to actually put out some apology for this editorial and narrative nightmare...

If I ever bought anything but Legion (and that increasingly less often) I'd pare it down too. Even when DC does some big event that's coherent, it's usually sort of repulsive in some form.

Looking back over FC as a whole, the event really had a number of nice moments with some of my favorite characters.

I particularly liked the generally respectful and consistent characterization that Morrison gave the Marvel family, both in the main FC title and in Superman Beyond. Although I wasn't wild about Mary being turned into a pawn of evil, I'm glad she was restored at the end and wasn't killed off. Her and Freddie's willingness to stand their ground, even in their non-powered forms, spoke volumes about the essence of the Marvel family. And, as a big Tawky Tawny fan, I couldn't have asked for a more fitting showcase of the character. Too bad Uncle Marvel didn't have a cameo.

I liked the appearance of the Great Ten a few issues back, too. I'm really curious to see how the members of this team are doing. I think the planned ongoing's been shelved, although I'd like to see it some day -- or at least see the team appear hear and there in other titles.

Finally, I really loved the fact that Captain Carrot and crew were restored at the end of FC. I also hope to see them around the DCU from time to time.

oh rouge ;_; your power is mighty.

but i thought superman came back from his superman beyond trip literally a heartbeat later??!!

the only other possibility is that he gets returned from L03W months later than he should have (should have paid attention to the post-it notes in the time stream)

Just a few thoughts since rouge shed so much light on things ~

I'm glad the Monitors are gone.

I'm glad Darkseid and the other Kirby creations are gone.
(I loved Kirby creations in Marvel and Darkseid was a great villian, just not in DC. The only two times I enjoyed him was in the Great Darkness Saga and in the Phoenix crossover.)

I liked the music angle ~ I've always been a music of the spheres fan and loved Tolkien's creation story of the singing of creation (in the Silmarilian, if I remember correctly.)
Morrison's concept borrows heavily form that, I think.

I also enjoyed that he tied the beginning of the series ~ the death of Orion/god-bullet with the ending moments, ~ death of Darkseid/god-bullet.
Only Batman would have thought of using the bullet again and only the Flashes could have got Death there in time.

Supes and the Miracle Machine was a clever touch.
My favorite panel in the whole series was when Kal told Mandrakk(whatever) that he was a solar battery!

The reast was just so overwrought and confusing,

How do you keep track of what's going on when you have a bunch of other books to bring in?
It just was a disaster trying to figure out who was who and what was what.

I hope Prime goes the way of the Monitors and Darkseid.
And like others here, I wonder what all of this is going to mean to the DCU and the Legion.

Finally caught up and read #6 & #7. All I can say is thank goodness Rouge is posting on Legion World. I did not really enjoy this at all.

Shady - I love the Tolkein story about the beginning of creation in the Silmarilian. I was so blown away by how unique that was when I read it for the first time two or three years ago.

Here's another very interesting article about Final Crisis and Grant Morrison and his whole style of writing that serves as kindofan addendum to the last one I posted -

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=20019

I don't normally read that blog but darn if he doesn't have some insightful things to say.

Whose lamebrain idea was it to create 4 post FC mini series, all 6 issues each? Does DC really think I'm going to buy any of these? I limit my comic spending every month, and I'm not about to add that to my budget during these tough economic times!

And Grant is hit or miss with me. This was a definite miss. Animal Man and All-Star Superman were both brilliant, Doom Patrol was bizarre but fun. I even thought Invisibles was inspiring up to issue #3 and then it completely lost me so I dumped it from my pull list. I had no interest in his Batman either. I don't need my comics to be mindless drivel, but I don't want to have to be on 'shrooms to understand the nature of reality in a Morrison book either. It's just not worth it to me.

I was really disappointed in this series as a whole. The only spinoffs I've even remotely enjoyed were the Rouges and Legion ones. Everything else has been drivel.

The idea that I'd bother to pick up one of these spin-off titles is laughable. Can't you just tell these will crash and burn?

FINAL CRISIS - still not 'final' yet!

Oh, c'mon... aren't you looking forward to FCA: DANCE ?

I'm waiting for:

FINAL CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE: The End of DiDio-tic Days

Yeah, I don't know what DC is thinking in starting this many 6-issue minis in the same month starring C and D level characters. (who really wants six issues of the Human Flame or the new Tattooed Man, let alone Super Young Team...?) They could probably condense all of them into a 4-issue mini if writers these days didn't drag everything out so much.

I just have to say, regarding to C and D level characters, Animal Man.

I'm excited by the Super Young Team. And Matt Sturgis writing the Human Flame- that has appeal. And for anyone wondering what kind of treatment a 6 issue mini can be, let me just point out the current Vixen mini. It's showing what a character can do when written well.

Comparing FC to COIE really showed how poorly the myriad of characters in FC were written. At least in COIE, we got a little sense of who most of the characters were. Sure, some of them just showed up in a panel or two, but at least most of them were named! In FC, you just get a whole bunch of characters standing in panel and doing nothing. After a while I gave up trying to figure out who was under which anti-life helmet, and just tried to enjoy the pretty, colorful costumes.

The heroes' storming of Bludhaven? Did NOT hold a candle to any of the battles in COIE. I just found myself not caring (although the one panel with Kimiyo Hoshi perked me up a little).

Oh, and what was the point of Libra gathering the villains? Didn't they just get everyone brainwashed by the anti-life equation anyway? If they did that to a) keep the villains busy/occupied so they'd be less likely to resist, or b) keep the heroes occupied, for the same reasons, that seemed pointless because the damned equation was sent through the Internet anyway! Oracle and Mr. Terrific were barely able to stop it. What a load of crap.

The only emotion I felt (other than confusion and annoyance) was a liiiiiiiiiiiiittle bit of despair when we first saw the anti-life equation taking over the world. After that, it was just a load of "whatever".

Oh, and what was the point of bringing in the 50 Supermen, Zoo Crew and Pax Dei? So they could intimidate Mandrakk into submission? Cause they didn't do jack squat!

I completely agree with you, double-chinner.

And speaking of the draft, here's another scene which COULD have been awe-inspiring. Instead, Alan just says, "I'm proud of all of you" or something like that.

That's it? That's freaking it? Granted, maybe Morrison didn't want to waste space explaining things the readers should have known, but it would've been nice to see everyone coming up with a game plan or something. So there would have been a point to this whole thing.

Okay, so MAYBE the gathering led to most of the heroes escaping from the anti-life equation. I dunno. Still seems like a lot of them were taken over.

And Tawky Tawny beating Kalibak? Priceless. I actually liked it (although I had to order the little voice screaming in my head that this was another improbability on top of all the other improbabilities being shoved down our throats )

And I'm a bit ashamed to say that it took me five minutes to realize that it was Joan, Linda and the kids who were with Ollie, Dinah, Babs etc. at the "Hall of Justice (League HQ). I blame it on the writing. And why wasn't Iris with them? Okay, it was so Barry could use truuuuuuue looooove to bring her back. Or I guess whichever hero saved Joan and Linda didn't bother to get her because her husband was dead, unlike the husbands of the other two

I'll give you a beer, but I'll be damned if I can even attempt to give you an explanation

Oh, there are Spin-Off series? I haven't even noticed them. Must have developped a blind spot for anything tainted by Morissons "genius"...

As for Invisible Brainiac, you're totally right. I did not care a single bit about what was happening as well. The confusion I felt, but I did not care for the heroes (?) featured cause the one half, I did not know at all, and the other half, I met during my 30 years of DC reading but could hardly recognize. And if I don't care for the characters, I don't care for the story, and that's something that I definitely witnessed a lot with Morissons stuff.

I recently read some Superman: All Star Superman 1-6 by Grant M., and Action Comics 837-840 by Geoff J..

What can I say? Morissons writing left me cold... again... his Superman was far out of this world and I did not care one single bit if he was dying. Johns Superman actually made me care, which surprised me cause I never was a big Supes fan. His writing somehow drags me into the story and I really get excited to see how it will be turning out.

Why that is, I have no idea. But it's a definite fact and reason enough for me to never get in touch with any of Morissons gibberish again.

Three of the four spin-offs interest me (The Human Flame holds no interest), but the writers are unknown quantity for me, and there's been poor results when others run with Morrisson's ideas in the past. Since they're all six issues, it's like DC is inviting us to trade-wait on them anyway.

Yeah. Even though I was pretty disappointed in Final Crisis itself and was initially completely turned off by the thought of 4 six-issue spin-off series' that would remind me of that mess, now that I've seen what they're all about I'm actually *really* interested in them.

They all sound really different and intriguing to me. If I wasn't completely broke I'd probably buy all 4 of them. As it is, I'll probably just stump for whichever gets the best reviews and then pick up the other 3 in cheap back-issue bins or something.

I know I'm late to this party, but just wanted to share my views of Final Crisis.

It was a really awesome story, not necessarily a good event in terms of organization, which does not bother me as much. As I was reading the other posts for this thread, I can totally see why people were not comfortable with the idead that this was not a 'Crisis' like the prior two. The rationale explanation, at least me, is that Morrison and DiDio wanted this event to be unique among the Crisis trilogy, and there's nothing wrong with trying something new. Mad props to Rouge for the annotations. Worldie after my own.

My favorite bits and pieces from Final Crisis:

1) Batman lives only he's at the start of time
2) Darkseid dies and becomes the seed of New Genesis in the emergence of the Fifth World
3) The Monitors retrench from the Orrery
4) Superman rebuilds the Miracle Machine (from memory, I might add) and saves the Multiverse
5) The Flashes are back, reversing their deaths from the prior crises
6) Everyone on Earth now knows of the existence of the multiverse, which gets rid of the 800 lb. gorilla for future stories involving the Multiverse

And I know having and establishing our own opinions is subjective. But what do not get is why people call this s@#%. It is a different kind of writing styling that does require the reader to think and read above their usual frame of reference. And if you do not like that, that's kosher, but for what FC was, it was a well-constructed and metatextual story.

Like ververy and Blacula, I was not a fan of any Kirby concepts until finishing this series. And sometimes people would gloss over it because of their own personal indifference. Now I am fully immersed in all things Kirby with my Fourth World Omnibus.

Those were my two-cents. Although this not a form of elitism, for all the flamers out there, instead of getting angry at the event for not meeting certain expectations, you can ask the other worldies on the forum for help understanding it. Here's also a CGS episode with complete annotations for Superman Beyond 1-2 and Final Crisis 7:

http://www.comicgeekspeak.com/episodes/files/cgs-episode573.mp3

Okay. Read this finally. I had only grabbed the first issue all those years ago, and due to budget constraints...never went any further with it.

I honestly liked it. I read the collected hardcover, and know that there are at least three other comics (2 Superman & Resist) in it which I believe help the overall understanding of the story.

The story itself is a high concept to be fair, and requires a level of just going with it on the first read through. I have it for another 3 weeks, so I plan on reading it again and trying to boil my thoughts doen on a few of the things involved.

I can see how, and would have been in that same camp at the time, many peoplel were frustrated with this series...sinceit required several one offs to get the full story. That I find poor on DC's part...which is one of the things I have an issue with the last several years worth of crossovers from both Marvel and DC...too much happens outside the main evert that have an impact on the main narrative.

More thoughts later...