Are you familiar with this hero from the UK?

For more info go to this Wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvelman

What is your opinion of this character?

Miracleman was probably my favorite comic of all time (Alan Moore's revamped MM that is). Basically a deconstructed Captain Marvel with cosmic/godhood overtones. Absolutely amazing stuff. Neil Gaiman was just picking up speed when the series abruptly ended.

It's really too bad that ridiculous hack Tod McFarlane is still claiming rights to the property, he absolutely does not deserve it.

I still hold out hope it will get back in the hands it belongs in(i.e. Neil Gaiman & Mark Buckingham) eventually.

There's a pretty informative book called KIMOTA!The Miracleman Companion published a few years ago Amazon (yikes! kinda pricey!) the whole story of MM's rise, demise and subsequent unending court battle told through various interviews.

Wow... reading the Wiki entry sure does cock up any notion that McFarLAME was ever involved in creating IMAGE because of creators rights...

In amazingly coinciodental news:

My buddy at the CBS told me this the other day but I had to read it for myself. Apparently Marvel bought the rights from Marvel Man's original creator. He was redubbed Miracleman in the US because Marvel wouldn't let them use the name. Apparently this sidesteps the ongoing Miracleman rights wars (I have to admit, I prefer the name Miracleman but whatever). No announcement of a creative team so far but if they don't let Gaiman and Buckingham finish their run, it would be a crime.

The only thing that worries me is a potential Marvel Man/Wolvierine team up or some such stupid gimmick. Basically, if they would somehow incorporate him into the Marvel universe it would completely ruin the character for me.

I will for now, remain hopeful though.

Marvel to publish Marvel Man/Miracleman

interesting. this has been talked about for a long time, but now finally resolved, it seems.

the Macfarlane claims come about from his purchase of the intellectual property of Eclipse, the 80s indy that published the Miracleman version (Alan Moore/Neil Gaiman).

But Eclipse purchased it from Dez Skinn (or Skin. i forget), who had started the project (with Moore) in his British anthology series Warrior (if I recall correctly).

But the clincher is this: according to rumor, Skinn decided it was easier to tell everyone he had acquired the Marvelman rights from the original publisher (Mick Anglo) - but allegedly really never had. If so, he apparently successfully gambled that no one would bother to look into it.

So the real pickle is this: IF Skinn never bought the rights back in 1980/1 or thereabouts, does the publishing of the Moore/Gaiman run constitute a failure on Anglo's part to defend his ownership of the property? In US law, it would seem like enough for Anglo to lose his claim (or at least his exclusive claim). But British law - and international reciprocity on rights - are beyond my limited knowledge.

All that said, I hope Macfarlane loses and Marvel lets Gaiman/Buckingham resume.

Like Lash, I have heard about Marvelman/Miracleman all my comic book reading life but have never really read anything about the character. I'd definitely be willing to check it out.

I also applaud Marvel's top execs for getting this done and hopefully in a way to circumvent McFarlane's dickhead move a few years ago. I think this could be a big win for comics in general, especially if Neil is involved.

I'd love to hear some memories / thoughts / etc. on the entire franchises history regarding stories, favorite moments, etc. from those who read it (and I'm looking at you Uranus Lad ).

Miracleman was some of Moore's best stuff.

Gaiman's "Golden Age" was uneven, but still good.

His "Silver Age" was shaping up to be fantastic, however.

Checking around recently I was shocked to find out how much my individual issues and TPBs are worth now. Holy cow!

Spoiler Warning
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When I think of Miracleman, one visual memory stands out.

MM's sidekick (Kid Miracleman, I believe), grown up and corrupted by his powers, lays waste to an entire hospital. When a nurse begs for her life, he at first shows mercy. But then, without lifting a finger, he causes her head above the jaw to disintigrate.

In Miracleman, Moore did for Captain Marvel (the Shazam hero) what he did for the Quality heroes in Watchmen--deconstruct the myth by saturating it with graphic violence and suggestive content. Other issues featured a beheading, fingers being amputated, and a dirty old man raping an unconscious female hero. Like most so-called adult comics of that time, such depictions were considered "real" and therefore good or at least better than mainstream, all-ages comics.

At the time, I thought Miracleman was one of the best comics out there, and it probably was. But what stands out in my memory after 20 years are the violent scenes moreso than the storyline itself. I don't think Miracleman made as strong a point as Watchmen did; much of the comic seemed to rely on shock value.

I also remember that Gaiman's tenure seemed to drift without much direction. MM becomes a god and presides over a world free from violence. In one telling scene, a father begs MM to save his dying little girl, but MM--inscrutible as any god--turns him down. It's clear that Gaiman transplanted some of the unfathomable quality of Morpheus into Miracleman. In any case, the quieter nature of this arc was hampered by delays between issues, sometimes up to a year.

Miracleman is worth checking out, but don't expect a lost treasure.

Actually, I read that visually as him slamming his hand into/through her head, I think there are some motion lines to indicate that.

... Moore deconstructs a relatively simplistic 2 dimensional character and comic by creating a believable back story (however improbable), realistic characters and realistic situations(again however improbable) and weaving it into a sort of believable meta-mythology. The violence and "suggestive content" are completely ancillary to the story, not the point itself.

I find this a puzzling viewpoint and feel I sorry for you if that's all you took from it, because it's a really good story. Different than Watchmen sure, but no less significant save for it's venue avery small publisher).

Violence is a super-hero's milieu really. The only difference in this being that the violence Moore depicts has consequences in Moore's REconstruction. In early MM stories, the characters, merrily fly around, cap volcanoes, beat up a few bad guys, toss them in jail or send them back to their home planet and everything is back where it began, all happy and shiny, nobody hurt. Well, that's fine for simplistic children's stories I suppose. But to keep most adults attention, you have to make it "real", add complexity, depth. In the real world, if you punch someone in the nose, they bleed. BUT you don't punch someone just because you think they're a "bad guy". If you're a superbeing, created by a government program using salvaged alien technology, who was raised in a happy-go-lucky computer-generated fantasy-land with your best pals, who suddenly finds himself a lone superbeing in the real world full of vastly inferior beings and it drives you insane, you go on a mass-killing spree. Yes there is quite a lot of violence in MM but it is not without a point.

Miracleman was groundbreaking in many ways, it took the classic super-hero to it's penultimate point wherein the superhero remakes the world in his own image. To say it used violence for violence's sake or was even particularly gratuitous is doing a a damn good piece of art a horrible disservice. There any number of comics one could easily say this about(look no further than the aforementioned Tod McFarlane's work -a fine example of basic adolescent male power-fantasy (mixed with a splash of horror) drek), but saying that about Miracleman would be missing the point completely.

As for Gaiman's run, he wasn't exactly "drifting with no direction" he was examining what it was like to live in this "Utopian" world that MM created(at least throughout the Golden Age and Apocrypha). It was much more about the people who occupied the world than the gods who created and watched over it. I still hope to see the conclusion to the Silver Age some day.

And did I mention the beautiful art in the issues John Totleben penciled? Well, they are really quite lovely. Buckingham's too as well as a handful of other completely competent artists.

So basically, I would have to contradict He Who Wanders and say; if you haven't read it, you SHOULD definitely expect a lost treasure in Miracleman (If you can afford and are lucky enough to find the back issues and/or TPBs). because at this point, who knows if Marvel actually has or will have rights to reprint them.

Uranus Lad--

You're probably right about the manner in which Kid Miracleman kills the nurse. As I said, I'm recalling this from memory.

I'm also glad that you see the series differently than I do, as that gives Cobie and others a chance to get two different perspectives on it. Was the violence, et al., too much? Your mileage may vary.

I agree that stories aimed at adults need "complexity [and] depth." But those terms do not automatically translate into graphic violence and sexual content. Really, when I see comics with these features nowadays, I wonder if the target audience is adults or adolescents, who are more apt to find such things shocking and titilating.

Comics have complexity and depth when they have well-rounded characters and stories that say something meaningful or original (beyond, for example, good overcomes evil or, more commonly nowadays, there's no distinction between good guys and bad guys). If you say MM had these qualities, I'll take your word for it. (I still have the issues, but they're packed away.) Sex and violence can be part of the equation, but, just as equally, they do not have to be. They are not a central issue (or they shouldn't be) when it comes to comics aimed at adults.

Moore and his collaborators were certainly not the first to show what the "real" consequences of super-hero violence would be, nor were they the last. That, too, is an ancillary issue, as far as I'm concerned.

In other words, I reject the notion that super-hero comics have basically two options: "shiny, happy" stories where "nobody gets hurt" and ultra-violent stories where the "real" consequences of super-hero battles are shown (an oxymoron, by the way). The Silver Age Legion stories did a much better job, in my opinion, of showing such consequences (Lightning Lad loses an arm, Ferro Lad dies, Star Boy kills then gets expelled, etc.), all without gore.

Anyway, Cobie was asking for our memories and thoughts on MM, and those are mine. I stand by them. They are what I took away from the series after 20 years. No need to feel sorry for me.

(I agree about the art, by the way. Totleben and Garry Leach both did outstanding work.)

I only ever bought one issue of "MiracleMan" and it happened to be the one where Kid MiracleMan goes ape$#!t ... very powerful, but it left me feeling that I had missed a lot and I wasn't motivated to find out what was really going on.

Regarding Gaiman's run, it occurred to me that he was writing the same kind of stories he often wrote in Sandman: tales about one-shot characters and how their lives were impacted by the god-like hero. While this approach was the crux of what Sandman was all about, it didn't satisfy me with Miracleman because, well, I wanted to read about the title hero, not characters who would never appear again and with whom I had no emotional investment.

It was a very daring form of storytelling, and it might have worked had MM been published more often or had those stories been offered in special editions instead of the main series.

Did Marvel ever publish anything pertaining to Marvelman or are they just going to sit on the coypright?

I think all they have done is some reprints of pre Alan Moore stuff...that's it.

All they have is rights to the early Mick Angelo stuff. All the Moore era work (and after) is still in a legal grey area. It seems everyone was trading in rights that Dez Skinn may not have "legally" acquired in the first place. I think it's still a while before this gets sorted out properly.

I read all the Marvelman books as a kid and they terrified and delighted me in equal measure! They'll probably still be in my parents loft somewhere, must look them out and have a reread, I'll probably enjoy them even more now....

Isn't it amazing how MARVELMAN really started? the UK publisher found out Fawcett was getting out of the comics biz, but wanted to continue, so, they just changed the names & costumes, and continued on their way! What nerve.


Then again, I understand a South American publisher did the same thing-- except, THEY didn't bother changing the names & costumes.


I wonder if anyone, anywhere, will ever reprint any of that material?

It's really complicated with all the Marvel rights business (should be a topic in of itself!), but here is the breakdown:

DC sued Fawcett for many years and finally won. They got the copyrights to the original Captain Marvel because it was considered a clone of Superman.

Foreign publishers don't know/don't care and keep publishing. I can't speak for England, but South America was undergoing some interesting and violent political changes around this time. If you could give me the exact country I could give you more detail (writing a lovely 10-15 page paper about colonial Brazil right now).

The copyright for Captain Marvel falls into disuse, Marvel Comics takes this opportunity to create Captain Marvel. I got to admit that The Death of Captain Marvel is my favorite graphic novel. And Noh-Varr is gorgeous...so I guess now that they have this copyrights there will be more good-looking bricks in the Marvel Universe. That's not always a bad thing.

Read all the Moore/Gaiman stuff a few years ago. It's good, and I wouldn't mind seeing it in a affordable format someday. Too many egos involved at this point though...so I am not getting my hopes up.

The Marvel thing has turned out just like I thought it would...a big fat dud.

I've read about this so many times... My impression is, while DC sued Fawcett repeatedly, and kept harrassing them for at least a decade (nothing pissed DC off more than the fact that Captain Marvel was SELLING MORE than Superman!!). By the early 50's sales of all comics were starting to fall. Fawcett decided to settle out of court, and agreed not to publish CM anymore (in fact they'd decided to drop out of comics publishing entirely!), nor to allow anyone else to do so.

I guess on the UK and South American things, they didn't follow thru too well... heh.


I believe in the early 60's, the fanzine ALTER EGO was prevented from doing much CAPTAIN MARVEL stuff, because of the agreement. I forget if I heard that Fawcett actually sent them a "cease and desist" letter after AE did one issue focused on CM.


Jules Feiffer's book THE GREAT COMIC BOOK HEROES (1965) was prevented from so much as reprinting a single CM story because of the agreement, and only managed ONE PAGE, for reference.


But then Myron Fass put out a comic called "CAPTAIN MARVEL" about a red-clothed android (created by Carl Burgos-- gee, where have we heard that name before?), and it pissed off Martin Goodman, because he felt readers would mistake it for one of HIS "Marvel Comics".


The M.F. Enterprises series didn't last... and before long, Martin Goodman told Stan Lee to create a character called "CAPTAIN MARVEL" so MARVEL could publish it. Before long, he secured the Trademark for the magazine title, so NOBODY else could put one out with that name.


A few years later, DC LICENSED the original character from Fawcett (who still owned it), but, prevented from using "CM" as a magazine title, put "CM" out in a book titled "SHAZAM!"


Years later, DC bought the character outright from Fawcett.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/10...man-from-january-2014-to-its-conclusion/

I hope that this launch takes it from the first Eclipse issue onwards.

It's a great series and really deserves a wider audience.

I was a lucky bunny with a run of Warrior issues as well as the Eclipse run. I enjoyed the shift of the post Moore work too. I recall an issue dealing with spies having to deal with a world where their profession is obsolete.

Hopefully Marvel won't run it into the ground. We'll see.

Next Month in Secret Infinity Chaos Wars: The entire cast invade Miracleman's world. For a second, before they are teleported into the sun by a Warpsmith.

I've read the run online somewhere a long time ago. Looking forward to being able to own it, and read the ending.

So I've been getting the Miracleman reprints as this is the first time I've ever read these stories, and I've got to say: they are pretty great!

The artwork by Gary Leach and early Alan Davis is mesmerizing thus far. Just so beautiful and crisp--it's superheroey with just the barest hints of grim & gritty, and that makes it feel sharp and vibrant.

Alan Moore clearly has always been a comic book genius, likely scribbling out to-do lists at age 8 that could be collected in hardcover format and be better than 89% of all published media these days. He's fantastic here, and his prose sucks you right in each and every issue. Trying to understand how these stories must have been in relation to everything else coming out in 1982-83 helps add a little perspective at how mature they are, and inspirational for the next 30 years of comics.

Clearly, Moore has stated many times that he hated the never-ending deconstructive cycle of comics that came after this, Watchman and other things he wrote. But that doesn't take away how well done this is.

You're in for a real treat, because it builds to something insanely fantastic. Then Gaiman comes along and smartly doesn't try to top it, but instead does something completely different and awesome.

Seeing as Marvel's supposedly been taking some minor censorship liberties here and there with the art and language, it will be interesting to see how they intend to handle the climax of the Red King Syndrome and the infamous London issue.

Edit to Add: It's crazy to think that Moore was essentially writing Mike Moran, Alec Holland and Jon Osterman all at the same time. He certainly had three very different facets of omnipotence he wanted to explore, in very different ways. Hopefully you've read the other two, because without getting too spoilery, this one takes it even further.

Never mind the London issue, what about... ah well, you'll see. Or perhaps you won't...

Hang on. That's the door. Hello? Sorry? Blatant Teasing is a felony? Who knew...

I've read the majority of Moore's other work, so this is a special treat.

From what I understand, the print issues thus far have been censorship free (thankfully!). Hopefully that continues.

Picking up on Moore's facets of omnipotence, I'm struck at how much his stories seem rooted (bad pun, bad) in a number of the Superman stories in that golden age of imaginary tales.

He captures the essence of those stories. What if Superman couldn't die? What if Superman settled down and had a family? What ifs made more real. Moved from throwaway issue to centre stage. Expanded to capture all the emotions, causes and effects that such imaginary tales would have in a slightly more realistic world.

So the infamous birth issue was an eye-opener. Having witnessed the real thing before, I saw it as beautiful and powerful. But I can imagine a lot of 17 year olds flipping their shit!

By now Moore has picked up steam and has been joined by the excellent Rick Veitch. The series is quite good and I'm really worried about what will happen with Liz now that the baby is clearly not a normal baby.

Wait til John Totleben takes over!

Ooh, I had no idea he was part of Miracleman too! Nice!

The Annual came out today, featuring the lost Morrison story from the 80's drawn by Marvel's EIC and a Milligan story drawn by Allred.

Despite the impressive pedigree all around, it's mostly a throwaway pair of stories that read somewhat like the Apocrypha series back in the day.

The Morrison story is definitely him channeling Moore to tell a story of Johnny Bates early days after escaping the project. It's an OK little piece but it's basically just a nod to how evil Johnny is.

The Milligan story is set in Angelo times, but obviously in the Moore continuity, as Miracleman begins to notice the incongruities of the superhero lives they lead, but eventually gets snapped back into the fantasy completely.

You're right. it does sound exactly like the apocrypha series. Actually, I thought these were reprints but I think the evil bates story was a james robinson one way back when (pretty unpleasant).

The Miracleman realises that there are issues in his super hero world, sounds exactly like another story back then. I'm not sure if that was in the apocrypha mini or not.

So this morning I wrapped up my reading of the Alan Moore era of Miracleman. I'm glad I got to read these stories finally, even if I paid the crazy price of $4.99 per issue to do so.

I can't say this is among my favorite work of Moore's, though I can certainly appreciate its importance. Clearly, without Miracleman, there would never have been so many comics that followed suit in the 1990's and 2000's, chief among them Stormwatch and the Authority, which in turn have greatly influenced the Justice League, Avengers and other mainstream stalwarts. All of this has the opposite effect of making me like it more, which of course isn't fear to the original work itself. But there is a very pessimistic view of super-humanity in this story and while it was probably very cutting edge in the 80's, it feels old hat to me now.

That being said, there are some wonderful things going on here. Chief among them is the gorgeous artwork, which was capped off by John Tolteben drawing some mind-blowing layouts. But even from the very first issue, the art was stellar.

Another great thing is you can see from #1 onwards how Moore evolved during the 1980's as a story-teller, specifically his narration and dialogue. Moore is clearly a master of the English language, which most his work conveys greatly. But in the earliest issues, published in the early 80's, it was all a bit clunky. By the final issues, published at the tail end of the decade, Moore is sizzling with every word. Even when he's at his most wordy, the narration rolls off the inner monologue's tongue as poignant or biting or lyrically appealing.

I'm glad I read it, and I'm equally excited about Gaiman and Bucky's issues which should come out later this year. Miracleman certainly doesn't rank in my top 5 or even 10 Alan Moore works (and I hate ranked lists, so I'll never create such a list) but it was clearly very influential and inspired a lot of what came after. On its own, it's a strong, solid comic book story.

It's interesting to view it in hindsight. "Olympus", like Moore's other work at the time, became hugely influential, but probably not in the ways he intended.

Olympus is all about Michael starting to lose touch with humanity and what the consequences of their "benevolent" dictatorship really were. So of course, what people took out of it tended to be "Wow, what if Super heroes took off the kid gloves and caused massive carnage, and what if they weren't opposed to executing their opponents in sick and wonderful ways!"

Now, of course, Moore wrote the Bates in London issue and it was pretty extreme (especially at the time), so he can't be too shocked that people missed the larger point when they are distracted by Johnny raining severed hands and feet down on the city, but the real meat of the story is all in the aftermath.

I think you'll really like Neil's run at this next, as it zigs where Moore zags, but still maintains the integrity of the narrative. Hard to believe we might get to finally finish this thing.

Yeah, the whole time I kept thinking: wow, everyone really missed the point! The entire last issue is incredibly sad and tragic, as Miracleman justifies all the things he's done to make the ultimate fascist state.

It's one of the saddest endings of all the Moore stories I've read, and I definitely walked away feeling bummed out.

Moore once said something along the lines of, "It's hard to deal with the fact that so many bad comics came about just because I was in a bad mood during the 80s."

It's official:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/a...gaiman-buckingham-official-for-september

I will be reading it, which should be interesting for me as I generally dislike Gaiman (except for the original Books of Magic mini-series, which I loved.) The issues that were printed sound rather like Astro City, with focuses on the citizens of the supposed Utopia that was created at the end of the Moore run.

One for the pull list. The initial ones were different, but then it moved towards a darker edge again before the end.

As it should be IMO. Too many consecutive dark issues can be unpleasant.

Unless the title of the comic is Li'l Depressed Boy, then you shouldn't be too surprised.

LOL

Is that from the same creative team as the Weeping Gorilla?

LOL

The gorilla does have a point there...for a change.

"The Golden Age" stuff is really good. Not to spoil for Cobie and the rest, but the synopsis is correct, in that we get out of Michael's head and get several one-offs from the POV of various people living in the post-London MM world. Some from the regular folks, some from those on Olympus, and my favourite, from one of the dead. I wouldn't say they are all happy-go-lucky, as even the "lighter" ones have an ironic edge to them, but it was certainly a bold change of direction at the time. I may crack open the TPB and re-read these myself.

I know you guys are joking--and I love me some Weeping Gorilla--but Lil' Depressed Boy is actually a really great comic! It isn't at all like it sounds...which I guess would be like Weeping Gorilla.

It's an actual comic?? LOL

I thought Thoth had made the title up.

There may even be a review of an issue over on the Random Review Thread.

I'll have a look. Thanks, Thoth.

Sooooo...I read the reprint of the first Gaiman/Bucky issue, about four people making a pilgrimage to meet Miracleman. Aaaaand...it feels to me that it's not The Gaiman I Like, but rather the Gaiman I Dislike -- mean-spirited, pessimistic, wallowing in unpleasantness for its own sake, and making his super-characters deeply unlikeable (or too much like us mere mortals, take your pick.)

HOWEVER...it's obvious that Gaiman has an overarching plan for what lies ahead, so maybe it'll grow on me and hold my interest. I'll give it til the end of the Golden Age arc.

In re-reading this thread just before I posted my review of the first Gaiman/Bucky issue, this post of Thoth's really stood out for me. I interpret it as identifying Moore as the greatest of all fanfic writers. Obviously, I'm biased, but that's really what I take away from it, a vindication for all fanfic writers such as myself.

Thanks, Thoth, whether or not that was your original intention.

Each issue is different tonally (though you are correct they all feed into a larger narrative). Trying not to spoil too much, but each issue will focus on a facet of the new society, and while they all aren't as depressing as this issue, it's a common undercurrent that the new paradise is not a paradise for all (which will feed into story for the Silver Age).

I'm relieved to learn they're not all as depressing as that issue. Thanks, Dave.

Gaiman/Bucky issue #2 was an improvement on the first one, but it all feels rather underwhelming. A super-heroine having graphic sex with a mere mortal man doesn't raise eyebrows the way it did back in 1990. And while there is something to admire about her willingness to confront the man with her imperfect mortal body, the "beauty is only skin deep" message seems rather trite. Also, I don't really get the impression that the guy learned anything from the experience.

The Cult of Bates stuff with the little kids was both weird and predictable. It doesn't say a lot for Gaiman's opinion of humanity at the time. Maybe he's developed a more mature (or at least a more positive) outlook in the intervening years which we'll see in the brand-new material a few issues down the line. Time will tell.

Cobie, are you still following Miracleman? I'd be interested to know what you thought of these two issues.

The next issue, "Notes from the Underground" is my favourite. Of course, a lot of it depends on your opinion of the main character in real life.

I finally got around to reading #1 and #2, and I'm excited to see where this all goes. Knowing there's a wider arc playing out I'm kind of waiting to see what will happen as in my experience, Gaiman's comic books are always enjoyed much better when read in trade formats or with blocks of issues all at once.

That being said, I enjoyed #1 much more than you did, Fanfie, and thought there was a lot of very human emotion being displayed both overtly and subtly. It was enhanced greatly by the grandiose and cosmic--and cold--setting and background, which only became moreso as they ascended up to heaven.

I thought #2 was a great story also. Again, it combines a very mythological, larger than life quality with very personal, gritty and petty human feelings. The moodiness of Bucky's art really worked here too.

Both issues thus far remind me a lot of Sandman, more so than anything else Gaiman has done. I loved Sandman and have reread the whole thing a few times, so for me there is an added enjoyment to see an extension of Gaiman's themes from that series. (I know you dislike Sandman, so there is likely a correlation there as well).

"Notes from the Underground" is a title Gaiman took from a Dostoevsky novella, which I happened to have just read earlier this year for the first time. So I'm doubly intrigued by what the issue will be all about!

That leads me to another point about Gaiman in general. I've studied at length the Russian Romance novelists of the 19th Century, as it was one of my favorite topics in college and grad school, and remains one of my favorite literary times in history. I think Gaiman definitely takes a lot of inspiration from that era, as do some other British writers from the 1980's - 1990's class that flooded into American comic books. Garth Ennis is another one I particularly associate with this. (Another writer you are not crazy about Fanfie).

Specifically the writer they remind of the most is Leo Tolstoy, though Dostoevsky is applicable. What all of these writers do is take very a large and general literary concepts, such as war, heroism, love, mythology, (and in the comic book medium) superheroes. They then proceed to balance these larger, epic ideas with the most gritty, personal, petty and "real" human moments and emotions possible.

For example, Tolstoy spends hundreds of pages ripping apart perceptions of heroism in war by showing the reality of war from the viewpoints of everyone associated with it: decision-makers, soldiers, officers, businessmen, etc. And just when you think he's totally ripped apart every idea you've ever had about "heroism during wartime", he then shows the most brave, beautiful and heroic moments that actually exist and happen during war, and they are wonderfully small, human and real.

I think Gaiman and Ennis try to duplicate that in their work when they tear apart preconceived notions of things. Because they usually try to find some unnoticed quality of the protagonist (and by extent their actions) that shows real love, or real heroism, or real sacrifice that at first seems lesser but in retrospect is all the greater because it isn't bullshit but rather something genuine, no matter how ugly or small it is.

But I've digressed...

I think what I'm getting at is that Gaiman isn't pessimistic at all. When you read his highly humorous tweets and essays on things, you can see that coming through in a big way. Rather, I think he takes a very acute and granular view of human beings. He sees through all of the things they say and claim to believe in or aspire to, and is able to see underneath to their real feelings and fears. He knows that people like Miracleman or Superman or Dream or any mythological figure destroying evil isn't real...but somene like the unknown man who stood in front of the tank in Tiananmen Square can be the highest example of human bravery. I think a lot of his stories are about recognizing that and then having those mythological beings recognize it as well, so they can understand those concepts in their truest form, as they really are.

Thanks for chiming in, Cobie. I respect your opinion and I can see where you're coming from, but I think my feelings could best be summed up thus:

I like writers who find the fanciful in the mundane.

I don't like writers who find the mundane in the fanciful.

I'm curious about the publishing. I'll have to dig out my originals, because I looked at the collected edition last night and found the order was different than I remembered the published single issue stuff (especially the backups and the "under space" stuff).

I think even by two issues in, it's probably pretty obvious the "Golden Age" is an ironic title, as people are still unhappy in the New World Order, and as more facets of the new society get exposed, you'll see more and more of the powder keg getting filled up.

As a fair warning, there's not a lot of uplifting endings in store for all the human protagonists we'll meet.

Since I haven't liked any of the humans yet, I doubt I'll shed any tears for them. But thanks for the warning, Dave.

A thought that just occurred to me:

If, as Cobie opined in his recent posts, Neil Gaiman recalls the Russian Romantics, then which literary movement does Alan Moore recall?

Gaiman/Bucky issue #3 was a big improvement over the first two, in my opinion. I have mixed feelings about Andy Warhol, I still haven't decided whether he was an observer or a participant in the celebrity-fying of culture. But I thought Gaiman used Warhol's persona very effectively here. I haven't read Dostoyevsky, as I'm not nearly as literate as I wish I was, but I think I get the gist of what Gaiman was trying to say. The thought of bringing people back to life has always been very unsettling to me, and the final page of the Gargunza clones stacked like dominoes was chilling. In a good way.

So, anyone know WTF happened to this? All that hype and it suddenly stopped?

Looks to me like the same old sh...sorry, same old story.

Just as the previous NG/MB Miracleman comic fell prey to missed deadlines and only the Gods know what else, so we seem to be witnessing a case of deja vu.

Given the colossal mess with the Sandman over the last few years, I wouldn't hold my breath for new Miracleman. I love Neil (reading Trigger Warnings right now) but it's become increasingly obvious that any comics work is not a priority for him. Plus, his Norse Mythology book drops today, so I assume that's going to occupy his time promoting that for the foreseeable future.

It will be interesting given the legal ramifications though, as I thought part of the resolution to this whole legal battle was to get he and Bucky to finish this for Marvel. Of course that was under Quesada's tenure, who knows what the priority at Marvel is on this.

I'm sure once the sales numbers came in as abysmal, all parties stopped caring as much. Which sucks for those of us who were loving a chance to finally read this.

Well, they cocked up by printing The Original Writer's stuff month-by-month rather than announcing it as a big Omnibus of the whole run immediately. Even if it made them more at the time, it gave all the hype years to dissipate before they got to the new Gaiman material, which cost them the chance to make THAT a big deal.

This is mostly how I feel, too. But comics are by their nature ephemeral, no matter how well-written. I remember feeling lost around the time that his human alter-ego was permanently abandoned (or killed? It's been awhile). Or maybe it was just that even "hip" superheroes were losing their appeal to me by that time.

I'd gladly read a limited series about the adventures of Liz & Miracleman's super-daughter.

EDIT: Depending on who writes it, of course.

Yeah, you nailed it pretty well there. A bit of a marketing blunder. Especially when you consider each month it was $4.99 for a single issue's worth of stories and then a plethora of worthless filler material.

Thanks for quoting my post from seven and a half years ago, cle. I had forgotten it and the debate it created with Uranus Lad.

You're right about comics being ephemeral, which, unfortunately, may be a disincentive to make them well written. (Why bother writing something well if you know it's going to be forgotten?) This is one reason why I prefer novels these days: Novelists at least cling to the belief that their stories matter and can have a lasting impact on the reader. I'm not sure this is the case with most comic book writers, and re-reading my old review seems to support this view. In comics, shock value and titillation often pass for depth and meaning. At least that's what I remembered about Miracleman back in 2009.

I've mixed feeling about this one. Having read it before, I was waiting until the new issues. The downside, of course, is that there may not have been enough sales to get that far. So no new issues for anyone. On skimming the odd one, I didn't think there was enough additional material to justify picking it up on those grounds either.

On the memorable moments form the first run. it's not the carnage I remember most. That may be because UK readers were used to seeing that sort of thing in the types of books where Moore cut his teeth such as Battle, Action and 2000AD (where he did do work). I didn't read Warrior until after I'd read his Captain Britain work in the UK Marvel comics. That had a lot of similarly disquieting themes. The Fury and the quiet desperation of the Britain in the story.

From my first reading I remember...

Mike Moran realising that he was never going to be as good at anything as his alter ego.

The job that he couldn't turn down because of family strains that led him to rediscover his powers.

That fear as he realises what his former friend is capable of, before a punch has been thrown.

Miracleman not understanding what he has lost as he stands in his new Olympus.

The abuse that led Kid Miracleman from breaking back out.

Winter's control.

It's a shame that comics chose only to see and copy the darker parts of the slaughter without looking at the many all too human points of the story.


Sometimes I wonder if that's because they were drawn/ turned on to a level of violence they perhaps hadn't seen before, whereas it was commonplace elsewhere to the point that it was the quieter moments that had to make a story. Sometimes I just wonder.

I agree with Thoth.

I grew up during the 80s in a third-world nation where civil unrest was not only a constant, but a given, not unlike the way I've heard Britain was during the same decade. So when I read Moore's Miracleman for the first time back in the mid-90s (at that time, the Eclipse back issues were all easy to find and reasonably priced), the gore seemed like an afterthought, even Bates's grand-guignol rampage. What I took away was the relatable humanity of the characters, even as the events around them became madder, more fantastical, and larger-than-life, particularly Liz. In fact, one of the scenes I remember most vividly is her witty skepticism as Mike tells her the true story of Marvelman/Miracleman.

For the above reasons alone, I'd easily rank Marvelman/Miracleman way above Watchmen. The last time I re-read the latter, it came across to me as an extremely calculated offering, and borderline cynical in the way Moore appeared to me to be dumbing down his talents for dialogue and characterization, with only Rorschach among the main cast registering with me as anything other than a cipher, and, of the supporting cast, only Mason made a good impression on me (which is why I was so upset when I read plot spoilers for Before Watchmen: Minutemen and found out that the writer had turned Mason into a murderous vigilante who kept a tight lid on his dark secrets.)

I appreciate your thoughts, Fanfie and thoth. Both of you grew up in different cultures than I did, so your perspectives offer valuable insights on the series.

You reminded me that Liz was an exceptional character, the humanizing aspect of the series. There were also a lot of other standout memories:

-- The villain with the blue teeth (was that Winter?) and how his end was weaved into the story.

-- A "single issue" which focused on spies and how they would be unhappy in a world which didn't involve conspiracy, surveillance, and danger.

-- Big Ben: a former superhero turned mental patient who was lost in his own self-gratifying delusions (not unlike certain comics fans. ) A very sad case.

-- Mike losing two fingers to a dog (?): A stark reminder of how different his real life was from his ideal superhero life.

Maybe it says something about me that the most significant memories I had in 2009 were of the graphic violence. Maybe I was so disappointed with how the series fizzled out that all I could remember was the "bad" stuff. In truth, the series had lot to offer that was challenging, fresh, and (to use thoth's word) disquieting in the '80s. It is indeed a shame that the darker aspects of MM and Watchmen were what publishers chose to imitate. There were a lot of groundbreaking aspects to both series that should not be forgotten.

Ugh.

Just no.

You are thinking of Evelyn Cream. Winter was Miracleman's daughter, mentally aged but never did physically and was more and more detached from humanity.

Thanks for the clarification, Dave.

You're very welcome, He Who. Legion World remains, as ever, the best comics forum for the kind of exchanges you just described. We are all of us LW-ers so very lucky.



Those are both favorite MM scenes of mine as well, especially Big Ben. Moore is IMHO nearly unique among British entertainers born in the 1950s in the way he can evoke the best of a fading English culture without coming across as either reactionary or sentimental.

Hey all,

This thread has inspired me to re-read the first issue of the 1985 version of MIRACLEMAN, and I think I might have enough to say to do a re-read thread of it. It's only 24 issues plus a 3-D special, so it shouldn't take very long.

Anybody else up for it?

He Who, I'm so sorry to have to inform you that, as with BF's proposed Outsiders re-read, I won't be able to contribute more than random memories of Miracleman. I'm just swamped at the moment, what with all the current and upcoming stories for Bits, in addition to a lot of real-life stuff.

No worries, Fanfie. Life gets in the way of review sometimes.

Huey, I'd suggest using this very thread for your re-read. The title can even be edited for that purpose.

I've only ever read the first few issues of the Marvel Comics reprint * , so I wouldn't be able to contribute much. But I think it's a worthwhile idea for you to do. Judging by the number of comments this thread is attracting, I imagine there would be even more feedback and back-and-forth from such reviews.



*BTW, I have to echo what Cobie said earlier about the crappy job Marvel did with the reprinting when I had been so looking forward to it. $6 for issue one and $5 thereafter for 20 pages or less of what you really wanted to read and the rest shitty filler. I may be wrong, but I can't think of anyone who's all that interested in the character pre-Alan Moore--so why would anyone want to pay extra to read the pretty terrible (imo) Mick Anglo original strips that come off, at best, as a poor Captain Marvel/Shazam rip-off without any of the latter's flair?

The easy answer is Marvel paid out the ass to obtain the rights and was looking for a supposedly easy way to re-coup their investment. Well, they got a few issues out of me before I wised up.

Oh, and the HC collections are pretty damned over-priced as well considering their low issue and page counts per collection. Generally speaking, you expect to pay less for the trade or hardcover than you would have paid for the combined cost of the individual issues. Nope.

Thanks for the suggestion, Lardy. Since this thread now seems devoted to the Marvel reprints, I wonder if it would be muddying the waters by reviewing the original Eclipse series here. I could certainly link to this thread from the new one and vice versa.

What I mainly want to know, though, is if anybody is interested in doing this. If I get started on a review thread, I want to make sure there is sufficient interest in participating.

Thank you for understanding, He Who.

And although, as I said, I'll only be chiming in with brief memories if the re-read does happen, I'd like to make this post an "open letter" to any Legion Worlders with strong opinions on Miracleman:

PLEASE take at least a minute or two of your time to post here, and thus make He Who's re-read happen. I consider him to be one of Legion World's most insightful and eloquent critics, and I believe his Miracleman reviews would be a great contribution to this forum.

Thanks, Fanifie! Your support is much appreciated.

It doesn't look like there's much interest in a re-read thread (but thank you, Fanfie and Lardy, for your responses), so I'm going to go ahead and post the review of MM # 1 I had already drafted. WARNING: Spoilers abound.

Miracleman # 1 (August 1985)
Story: Alan Moore
Art: Garry Leach
Letters: G. George
Editor: Dez Skinn

Synopsis: In 1956, the Miracleman Family (Miracleman, Young Miracleman, and Kid Miracleman) stop the Science Gestapo, time-travelling invaders from 1981.

In the present (1982), Mike Moran—a 42-year-old newspaper reporter—wakes up from a persistent bad dream in which he is flying in the night sky as Miracleman and accompanied by Young Miracleman and Kid Miracleman, though Moran does not know them or himself by those names. The trio comes across a massive ship or space station. As the other two enter the derelict, it explodes, sending Miracleman falling. Even though the dream leaves him with a migraine, Moran insists on going to work against the wishes of his wife, Liz.

Moran arrives at a nuclear power plant to cover a demonstration. Armed masked men arrive and force Moran and other reporters to escort them inside the plant, where the thieves plan to steal plutonium and sell it to the highest bidder. Moran’s migraine causes him to collapse and be dragged into the hall by one of the thieves. As he passes a glass door, the backwards writing reminds Moran of a word he’s been trying to remember from the dream: “Kimota” (a backwards phonetic of “atomic”). Moran whispers the word and, in a flash, transforms into Miracleman.

After quickly defeating the thieves, Miracleman rejoices that he has been freed from “that old, body” after 18 years and flies into space, attracting media attention.

He returns home and tells Liz his story as he remembers it. At age 14, copy boy Mickey Moran was approached by Guntag Borghelm, an astrophysicist who commanded “the key harmonic of the universe” and who bestowed upon Mickey the godlike powers of Miracleman when Mickey said the word “Kimota.” Within two years, he had been joined by Young Miracleman (Dicky Dauntless) and Kid Miracleman (Johnny Bates). The trio fought numerous villains until October 1963, when they encountered the fortress which exploded—robbing Miracleman of his memories. Liz finds the story absurd—as does Moran as he recounts it—but cannot deny the reality that the flying man she heard about on the news is her husband.

The news reports also reach John (formerly Johnny) Bates, who has grown up to become the owner of Sunburst Cybernetics. He calls Moran and invites him and Liz to come by for a visit. Bates explains he survived the explosion with his memories intact but without his powers. Moran, however, realizes Bates is lying and fears his old friend has given in to the temptations that would available without anyone to hold him in check. Moran tests his theory by pushing Bates over a balcony. Bates returns by flying and crackling with lightning.

Review: Man, I intended to write only a brief synopsis of this issue, but so much is packed into it—typical Moore.

In the 1980s, this was edgy stuff—and it still is more sophisticated than most comics I’ve read since then. This is a densely packed story with a lot going on—yet, for all that, the plot is fairly simple.

Knowing that this story was serialized first in Warrior may account for the somewhat rushed feeling. So much happens so fast. We are barely introduced to Mike Moran as an adult, and barely given enough reason to care about him (though Liz cares for him, and right away she becomes our most sympathetic character) before he is taken hostage, falls ill, and then transforms into Miracleman. All of this happens without much reaction from Mike, so it’s hard for me to get too invested in him.

Once he becomes Miracleman, all that changes. He smiles as bullets hit without hurting him, and then, with a clap of his hands, sends forth a “thunder burst” to subdue the thieves. In what is arguably the best panel in the entire issue, he flies above the earth, screaming with joy “I’m Miracleman . . . I’m back!!”

Yes, it would be awesome to be a superhero, and Moore (superbly abetted by Leach) captures that feeling brilliantly.

But this superhero's godlike powers come with terrible consequences. As in Moore’s other work, violence has permanent effects even when it used accidentally by heroes. The energy burst that results from Moran’s transformation leaves one of the thieves deaf and blind.

The rushed feeling mostly disappears when Miracleman approaches Liz. Her reactions—fear, disbelief, and finally acceptance—are all too real and help ground this fantastic story in something much closer to the real world. My favorite parts of the book consist of her amused reactions to Mike’s story (“Dicky Dauntless?? That was his name??”), and Mike grudgingly admitting that the story sounds far-fetched to him, as well—even though those are his memories.

In fact, the relationship between Mike and Liz is one of the more believable marriages in comics, even though Moore and Leach never waste a chance to indulge in comic book cheesecake by showing off her well-proportioned, nude body (always drawn from the back or obscured by shadow).

As John Bates enters the picture, the narrative rushes again. Mike and Liz have barely gotten used to the idea that he's a super-hero before Bates calls, sets up a meeting, and the reunion takes place--all to reveal our villain.

It's believable that Moran sensed his old pal was wasn’t human (heck, John even looks god-like, somewhat reminiscent of Tom Hiddleston’s Loki). But even if John was lying, there’s no indication he had misused his powers at this point, so there is no reason for Moran to throw him off the balcony. Mike’s actions come off as cold and desperate—but they get the job done, and we’re hooked to come back for the next issue.

Random Thoughts:

--In a nice bit of irony, the “Science Gestapo” hail from the year 1981, the year before the “present” scenes of the story. This pays homage to the fact that people often think the world of the future will be more advanced than it turns out to be.

--The Nietzsche quote (“Behold . . . I teach you the Superman . . .”) is worked in to great effect on Page 11.

--A bit of artistic inconsistency: Is Liz supposed to have flecks of grey hair on Page 13? They disappear from the rest of the book.

--Another inconsistency (though it works): The fortress appears to be a mangled wreck in Mike’s dream but appears whole and undamaged as he recounts the story to Liz. This is easily explainable, as his dream probably warped his memory of it. However, the fortress also looks different in John’s version of the story (Page 28).

--A pop culture coincidence: John Bates was also the name of the valet on Downton Abbey. He, too, had a dark past and was believed capable of murder.