so the news of the new BATWOMAN made the front and 3rd page of the UK's daily 'METRO' paper today !!??
didn't think it was that BIG a story !!
i do like her new look, so have we seen this new Kathy Kane before ??
ie: is it a new take on the OLD character, or is it the OLD character 'returned' after the changes in 'INFINITE CRISIS' ??
Matthew.
She hasn't been around in decades as far as i know.
This is a new character. Kathy "Kate" Kane is an homage to the original Batwoman, but this is a totally new take on things. The lesbian angle is new too
Why in the world are they making her a redhead? I'd think DC would want her to look different than Barbara Gordon...
Already, I've heard a couple of discussions in which 'Batwoman' was completely confused with 'Batgirl' by non-comics people. Having the character look just like the most recognizeable lady to wear a bat just doesn't seem smart to me.
I thought she was a brunette in that one image that keeps getting shown. The art in the preview pages shows differently.
Ah, well-- I'm already getting 52. I'd probably pick up any BATMAN books featuring Kathy Kane... we'll see if 'Kate' Kane has the same appeal.
I hope she still owns a circus.
Wonder how in the world they'll work in that haunting moment from the KINGDOM COME follow-up when Bats whispered "Kathy?" after seeing her ghost? image? mannequin? in the superhero bar (Warriors?)? Most likely, it'll get ignored.
Considering Batwoman's utility bag of tricks, I think it's kind of appropriate (and campy and fun) that they're labelling her a 'lipstick lesbian'.
After Infinite Crisis, I wonder how much of Kingdom Come is still relevant? As far as that goes, with the relaunch of the Legion, I wonder how intact Starman is. This is a different Thom Kallor than what we had, so I wonder if his future is as certain as what we had?
I liked Kingdom Come as a stand alone story, but I wouldn't want them to make a concerted effort to steer the DCU in that direction. If it happens it happens, but I prefer that things aren't set in stone.
Without worrying too much about KC, a shift like a revamped Batwoman doesn't really affect things too much.
I wish they had left Kathy's hair dark as well, but I wonder if part of it was an attempt to make the DCU think that this might be a new identity for the retired Batgirl. Not everyone realizes that Barbara Gordon/Oracle was Batgirl, so the DCU for the most part might not know the difference.
Hey gang,take a look at the Alex Ross design that accompanies the Yahoo News article listed below:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060531/ap_on_en_ot/batwoman_uncloseted Take a particular at the chest emblem,looks alot like the symbol of Terry McGinnis/Batman Beyond.
It's also similar to Barbara Gordon's Batgirl outfit from the Thrillkiller Elseworlds.
Originally posted by Spellbinder:
After Infinite Crisis, I wonder how much of Kingdom Come is still relevant?
I kinda think that IC replaced Kingdom Come as the apocolyptic redefining event for the DCU.
There are a lot of parallels.
Millions Killed in Kansas (KC) now Bludhaven (IC).
Luthor Manipulates Billy Batson (KC) now Superboy Prime (IC).
Lots of metas killed
Superman Cult in The Kingdom and 52.
Introdcution of KC versions of heroes in the main DCU.
The human/meta-human question brought to its head.
So I think having come out of Infinite Crisis, the current DCU stands more or less where the KC Earth was at the end of that story.
(Figure I'll give this Ultra Matt thread some legs...)
I finally found the time to give Batwoman the proper reading it deserved and with huge expectations I was still blown away by it's quality. I've followed Kate Kane since her intro and like Jerry says this seamlessly picks off where her run on Detective left off; what that means is one of the best quality comic books on the market.
If Action Comics was the clear winner in quality for DCnU in week 1, then this is surely the clear winner for DCnU in week 2.
J.H. Willaims is just a brilliant creator. Even without co-creator of Kate Kane, Greg Rucka, he makes every little aspect and moment count here. The writing is crisp and deliberate with fantastic pacing. The dialogue is sharp and real. And the art just takes it to a whole new level with composition and subtleties that will take multiple readings to truly appreciate. Utterly fantastic.
Kate Kane is complex, likable and just all around interesting. Even when she's being difficult, I like her more. The relationship with her father had already shaped up into one of the best father-daughter relationships in comics; I can't wait to see where it goes.
I've loved Maggie Sawyer since the early 90's in the Superman comics and I really love the idea of her being the romantic interest for Kate. It's obvious Rucka's love of her has transferred to Williams. In my eyes she's a much better fit anyway than Renee (and in fact I'd prefer a long break between the two seeing one another).
Bette / Flamebird being a part of this series is fantastic as well. She's been treated as a joke by writers for decades (since the 80's); it's clear the intent here is to turn her into something more serious. Good for her--can't wait to see it happen. And still, I can't wait to see her provide some tension-relief with light-heartedness the series will benefit from.
Love seeing Chase, Mr. Bones and be DEO playing a role.
Even the idea of seeing Batman (Bruce) and interacting is appealing since we've only ever barely seen that.
Fantastic issue. I could go page by page and rave about the visuals, they were so good.
Cobie comparison: did I enjoy as much as JL #1? oh yes--best of week 2!
^ps - I want Q-Ball and the Pool Hall Gang to recur throughout the DCU!
Originally posted by Cobalt Kid:
And the art just takes it to a whole new level with composition and subtleties that will take multiple readings to truly appreciate. Utterly fantastic.
True! I reread the book and noticed (duh!) that the scenes with Kate were generally bright, crisp and day-like, even indoors; when she's Batwoman, it's much darker, softer, a totally different style. The dream sequence was yet another style.
I hadn't been reading Batwoman before. The way she called Bette "Plebe" seemed sort of insulting, in a drill-sargeant kind of way. Is she just trying to be tough with her sidekick or do they have a difficult relationship?
I forgot to mention previously how tickled I was to see Chase and Agent Bones from Williams' much-missed CHASE series!
Batwoman #2 rawked my face off much in the same way #1 did. Another fantastic issue as the series continues to build the current storyline as well as the status quo of Kate, Maggie and all the other characters.
I've always loved Maggie Sawyer since her introduction in the Superman comics over 20 years ago (wow, it's been that long?) and I really am loving her usage here. The idea of Agent Chase considering her the top contender of being Batwoman is just fantastic.
Batwoman's father and their strained relationship is ever present even though he wasn't in the issue at all yet. His return to the series should make for some excellent drama.
I think Williams ultimate goal is for Flamebird to grow into a super-capable hero like all the other Bat-characters and I'm enjoying the journey.
Love the interaction with Batman too, which put them both in a good light.
This and Wonder Woman are the two best female superhero comic books out there, hands-down. When I'm reading it, I'm really just enjoying the hell out of every page.
BATWOMAN # 2 continues the excellent trend. I'm staying onboard.
RE: Batwoman #3
This book joins the list of the new DC titles that started strong and just gets better. Yes, the artwork in the first two issues was beautiful. Number three tops them both in mood and storytelling. The action scenes with Kate were top notch. When Bette appeared in costume I almost peed myself.
Lots of character development this issue. Chase was cold as ice. Maggie strong, compassionate and quoting Churchill!
A series that started out being about one hell of a tough woman has quickly become a series about four tough women. Each with her own voice and motivation. This is good stuff.
All right, I'm sold!
I usually don't go for crime dramas, but between this and Ann Nocenti taking over Green Arrow, it looks like I'm drifting in that direction where DC is concerned.
Will post my thoughts once I have the Batwoman issue(s).
I *knew* I was going to love this series... but I didn't realize just how MUCH until it actually got into my hands! Beautiful artwork is a given, but the story and characterwork is top-notch... and I'm only on issue #2! This is easily my favorite of the Nu52 titles.
The way Kate treats Bette reminds me of why the original TEEN TITANS got together. The fact that they're cousins (I keep thinking of them as aunt and niece...) makes it all sad.
So Batwoman's going to be the Gotham character that *really* wants to be on her own. Meaning no team-ups, joining a team, etc. Which, of course, indicates that she *should* be forced into uncomfortable team-ups and drafted onto a team. For her sake, I hope she hooks up with some 'lighter' characters (though probably not in this book, since its atmosphere and tone really doesn't need to be broadened at the moment.)
I both like and dislike the appearance of Mr. Bones in the title. I always enjoy reading him, but I definitely think that if there's no JSA on this Earth, there should be no Mr. Bones either. Cameron Chase, though, has no such obstacle to my gladness at seeing her on the page. I hope she sticks around as supporting cast, or perhaps goes on to hector other DC heroes.
Batwoman is one of, oh hell, it is THE best book that DC has out right now.
The artwork and the writing are a demonstration that J.H. Williams is pouring his heart and soul out into this book, and he's having help along the way with his co-writer, so, to me, he's giving equal attention to the script and the panels.
It would figure that ex Teen Titans are actually being handled better in books that don't have the word Titan in its title with Bette Kane. Which is both a good and a sad thing. Reading Kate lay into Bette is a reminder that Bette has had it luckier than most teen superheroes. She's not brooding, dark or depressed. Bette started out as a Robin fangirl who put on a costume to get his attention, but when Dick (as Nightwing) tried to tell her she doesn't have what it takes as a hero even if her heart is in the right place, Bette just decided to take things more seriously as Flamebird without becoming "x-treme".
You can't help but no be both awed by Kate Kane and want to give her a hug when you realize just how much she's had to endure and loss, while she hasn't reached the fridge. Kate's lost her mother and her twin sisters (twice), she was kicked out of West Point for admitting her homosexuality and not backing down, wandering aimlessly for a while until she realized she could serve under a different symbol. She's gone through some bad relationships and she's cut off contact with her father for lying to her, and now to protect her cousin she's had to present herself as an extreme control freak and really hit below the belt.
What did Kate do when she was kicked out of West Point? She became a party girl while looking for some direction.
What did she do when she discovered Alice was her sister? Cut her dad from her life and carry on as Batwoman.
What did she do when cut Bette out? She found solace in Maggie Sawyer.
Kate realizes all the sacrifices she's had to made for her duty and the people she cares about, but she's persevered. And when the weight finally hit her, instead of giving up she turned to her girlfriend for a shoulder to cry on.
Batwoman is a strong female character who has her shortcomings and her weaknesses like everyone else. She's soldiered on and she's made some sacrifices for the greater good, and whether or not those sacrifices will have been worth it we still have to see. She has not yet shattered, she has not become grim and brooding like so many other heroes DC has broken over the years, and she still has people she can turn to when the weight of everything brings her down.
This book has magnificent writing, beautiful artwork, a horrific villain and a growing supporting cast, and emotion.
God bless J.H. Williams and W. Haden Blackman.
Yikes! Things took a dark and horrifying turn in issue #4. I'm hoping for a good outcome, but not feeling much optimism.
How in the world is it possible that Dick Grayson's contemporaries appear to be limited to Jason Todd, Roy Harper, Bette Kane and Starfire? I'll bet that's why Bette's in a coma. DC probably will leave her in one in the hopes we all forget about her.
The fact that Bette was going to be in this series is the only reason I picked it up, and quite frankly the treatment of her was why I dropped it. I had high hopes, but should kown better.
After #7, I've come to the conclusion my love affair with this series, and Kate Kane, is fading. I found myself putting off reading it and then really not enjoying it when I did. It's hard to explain why, since I was so over the top all about it a few months ago.
I guess it's a few things:
- the ultra violence, when taken in conjunction with the rest of the DCnU, is distracting and disheartening. Hands ripped off, blood spilling out of eyes and mouths...its annoying.
- the set up of working for the DEO. I'm so over protagonists working for spy agency set ups at this point. The Chase plotline was exciting but now it's gone somewhere predictable.
- the treatment of Bette, though I think it's leading somewhere for Bette down the road.
- the villains / enemies. I'm realizing I'm not all that interested in remembering why they're so bad.
I'm a big fan of Amy Reeder but reports on the recent tensions between her and Williams III reveal what's obvious on the page. They are not clicking.
I don't know. A lot of DC series are losing me each month as I'm feeling like I just don't care. I expect Batwoman to be a top series and when it's not, I'm disappointed.
I miss the good old days when you didn't actually have to see someone disemboweled to get the idea that bad guys are, well, bad.
This book got some good responses early on. Some of the enthusiasm seems to have worn off. I'm still totally in love with Kate, the lush art, and complex women in this book. The team up with Wonder Woman running through current issues is really good. Kate and Diana are moving from cautiously working together to developing a deep respect for one another. I hope to see a lot more of them together in the future.
I thought this month's issue was absolutely gorgeous.
I still espouse Batwoman is one of the few consistently good books DC has out there right now, and I'm glad Kate isn't being involved with the Joker story because other than the symbol and Bette, Kate really doesn't have anything to do with the Bat Family and I think it should stay that way.
Personally, I think it's one of the worst books at DC right now--GORGEOUS art covering up for what's quickly become slow, plodding, mundane, hackneyed, and tired writing. I would KILL to see a new writer take charge of this book, so we can actually have Kate do something fun and interesting for the first time since Rucka left the book.
Originally posted by Jay Kay:
Personally, I think it's one of the worst books at DC right now--GORGEOUS art covering up for what's quickly become slow, plodding, mundane, hackneyed, and tired writing. I would KILL to see a new writer take charge of this book, so we can actually have Kate do something fun and interesting for the first time since Rucka left the book.
Let's not leave out how flat-out
confusing it's been with the crappy execution of the nonlinear storytelling method they used, especially on the last arc. Yep, the secret ingredient missing from Batwoman is Greg Rucka. It's a shame DC had to go and piss him off.....
I posted elsewhere I dropped it for about 10 issues because JH Williams never draws on it anymore ... and then picked it up when he drew an issue ... and it seemed at the same point as when I left it!
Besides ... IMO ... Its fairly redundant with Batgirl ... and I didn't like how they threw the original Batgirl (Bette) under the bus to make Kate look better and have some motivation.
Which is really too bad because this was one of the DC Reboot books I most anticipated ... along with Batgirl.
Originally posted by Lard Lad:
Originally posted by Jay Kay:
[b]Personally, I think it's one of the worst books at DC right now--GORGEOUS art covering up for what's quickly become slow, plodding, mundane, hackneyed, and tired writing. I would KILL to see a new writer take charge of this book, so we can actually have Kate do something fun and interesting for the first time since Rucka left the book.
Which means I will probably love it on a single sitting reread. "Non-linear" never seems to go well in a monthly. "plodding" has unfortunately been a fit word for a several of my post 52 pick-ups, most of which I dropped by now.
I dropped it awhile back. It just didn't have enough good for me to overcome all the tired writing. I probably collected it three issues longer than I really wanted to because I really wanted to keep following Kate Kane. But it wasn't enough.
Flash suffers from the same problem though its a little better. Phenomenal art & craftsmanship; slow writing with not enough 'oomph'.
Ps - agree that Rucka was the secret ingredient. At the end of the day I'm more interested in following him than Kate.
BB, I've seen "nonlinear" done well in monthly books with no or minimal confusion. Here, I think they were using the method to try to spice up what was a pretty unremarkable story by trying to play up perspectives. I seriously doubt reading it all together would improve it much at all.
Of course, I'm far from unbiased about this, having dropped the book a few months back. Not even the return of JHW3 could lure me back. (Also wasn't please that Amy Reeder was canned as alternate artist, either.)
Originally posted by Cobalt Kid:
Flash suffers from the same problem though its a little better. Phenomenal art & craftsmanship; slow writing with not enough 'oomph'.
ugh, Flash didn't have nearly enough writing at all! Most comics now spread the story out over 4 issues but Flash's story was much thinner than most. I read about 10 issues and got maybe 2 issues worth of story.
The guy is fast as light ... and yet ... the story ... is .... so ... sloooowwww.
Positive reviews for issue #13:
5 Atoms 5 Skulls
I completely disagree with the comparison to Flash--The Flash started out kinda decompressed, but after the first arc, it's had a lot of fast, strong stories reintroducing the Rogues Gallery while moving forward a couple of key sub-plots (like Patty, the police captain, and so on). Batwoman, on the other hand, has basically been telling the same story for well over a year at this point, in a way that's infuriatingly slow.
#18- Granted, Trevor McCarthy is no JHW3, but his fill-in arcwork has been passable (Though I feel Amy Reeder got a raw deal...) But his storytelling... *cringe*! The two pages where Kate fights and takes out Mr. Freeze... What am I looking at...?! The non-traditional panel shapes notwithstanding, none of the action flow makes sense! BLAH!
I'm still loving this book. The new storyline has started, and is off to an exciting start. Batwoman's family and friends totally have her back. That may not be a good thing.
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/09...-allowing-her-marriage-to-maggie-sawyer/http://www.jhwilliams3.com/archives/1826Dear Batwoman readers -
From the moment DC asked us to write Batwoman — a dream project for both of us — we were committed to the unofficial tagline “No Status Quo.” We felt that the series and characters should always be moving forward, to keep changing and evolving. In order to live up to our mantra and ensure that each arc took Batwoman in new directions, we carefully planned plotlines and story beats for at least the first five arcs well before we ever wrote a single issue. We’ve been executing on that plan ever since, making changes whenever we’ve come up with a better idea, but in general remaining consistent to our core vision.
Unfortunately, in recent months, DC has asked us to alter or completely discard many long-standing storylines in ways that we feel compromise the character and the series. We were told to ditch plans for Killer Croc’s origins; forced to drastically alter the original ending of our current arc, which would have defined Batwoman’s heroic future in bold new ways; and, most crushingly, prohibited from ever showing Kate and Maggie actually getting married. All of these editorial decisions came at the last minute, and always after a year or more of planning and plotting on our end.
We’ve always understood that, as much as we love the character, Batwoman ultimately belongs to DC. However, the eleventh-hour nature of these changes left us frustrated and angry — because they prevent us from telling the best stories we can. So, after a lot of soul-searching, we’ve decided to leave the book after Issue 26.
We’re both heartbroken over leaving, but we feel strongly that you all deserve stories that push the character and the series forward. We can’t reliably do our best work if our plans are scrapped at the last minute, so we’re stepping aside. We are committed to bringing our run to a satisfying conclusion and we think that Issue 26 will leave a lasting impression.
We are extremely thankful for the opportunity to work on Batwoman. It’s been one of the most challenging and rewarding projects of our careers. We’ll always be grateful to everyone who helped us realize 26 issues: Mike Siglain, who brought us onto the project originally; Greg Rucka for inspirationally setting the stage; our amazing artists Amy Reeder, Trevor McCarthy, Pere Perez, Rob Hunter, Walden Wong, Sandu Florea, Richard Friend, Francesco Francavilla, Guy Major, Dave Stewart, and Todd Klein; Larry Ganem, for listening in tough times; and editors Mike Marts, Harvey Richards, Rickey Purdin, and Darren Shan.
And most of all, a huge thank you to everyone who read the book. Hearing your voices, your reactions, your enthusiasm every month was such a joy, so humbling, so rewarding. You guys rock! Because so many of you embraced the series, we were able to complete four arcs, and your passion for Batwoman encouraged us to push ourselves to do our best work with each and every issue.
Thank you for loving Batwoman as much as we do.
Goodbye for now,
Haden & J H
Everyone should have seen this coming a long time ago.
I was SO ready to drop this... in fact, I'd logged into my DCBS order and removed the most recent issue solicited as of that announcement. But I'm sticking with it to see what Marc Andreyko can do with Kate and her cast. He writes excellent female leads... his Manhunter was on of my favorite books of the 'Aughts.
The art on early issues kept me around. I thought the first story promised an awful lot more than it delivered on the writing front. I think a lasted less than a dozen issues.
No intention of picking up the book with another creative team. DC's shifting plots ant the last second is just another reason I don't think the quality produced is worth the money.
It occurs to me, Epting has returned to DC at the perfect moment. The Dark Ages appear to be well and truly over. And while I hope he'll have a long and substantial run on Batwoman to at least equal his runs on Avengers and on Captain America, I do recall Epting saying in an interview a few years ago that he'd love to be given a second shot at Superman (recall that he was assigned the Superman flagship book -- with Dan Jurgens as writer, unfortunately -- only to be taken off from it within less than a year due to editorial and creative shake-ups on the Super-Franchise; Epting, with Jurgens still in tow, was shuffled over to Aquaman, which had already been in a sales tailspin even before Peter David left, followed by Erik Larsen doing irreparable damage as Aquaman writer; the Epting/Jurgens Aquaman was certainly nice to look at, but as for the stories...well, it was Jurgens. Understandably, Epting then jumped aboard the Crossgen train, and now he's come full circle.)
I'd like to see Epting do a Supes-related mini-series or OGN on the side, but with a writer worthy of his talent. Perhaps a World of Krypton kind of deal? And given how special Epting's talent for drawing women who look idealized and real at the same time is, perhaps a look at some little-known heroine from ancient Kryptonian legend, almost forgotten like so many Real Life ancient heroines have been? Or maybe even a closer inspection of the relationship dynamics between Jor-El & Lara Lor-Van during the last few years before Krypton exploded? Oh, the possibilities!!
But for now, I'll just sit back and enjoy Batwoman.
So with the first arc of Batwoman completed, I can say that I thought it was fantastic! Epting's art was as wonderful as I knew it would be and the overall story was actually really good! It introduced a lot of new elements to Kate Kane's story that are rife for revisiting, and it definitely showed Batwoman in a way that makes her unique and unlike any other members of the Bat-Universe. I think it was a great opening arc to the series.
I'm excited to hear this, especially with how well Kate was used in the first arc of Detective in the Rebirth launch. I'll definitely be getting this trade when it comes out. From what I've read myself and from the buzz around the stuff I haven't read yet, it really seems like the Bat books are knocking it out of the park!