http://www.newsarama.com/27666-didio-teases-rebirth-for-dc-comics.htmlPlease God, Satan, Buddha, that dead salamander under the bridge, let this mean what I hope it means.
Most people are assuming that this will mean a return to the pre-Crisis universe, but it's probably going to be a relaunch of most of their current titles under new creative teams.
Most people are assuming that this will mean a return to the pre-Crisis universe, but it's probably going to be a relaunch of most of their current titles under new creative teams.
I actually hope it's the latter. I don't want the clock to be turned back, I just want good stories free of schlock and gore.
Hey, a little schlock every now and then doesn't hurt.
I agree in theory, but the last 13 years of DC comics have been a continuous torrent of schlock.
Well, I was referring to the GOOD kind of schlock of course.
We won't get good schlock, or good ANYTHING, from DC until they're under new management, IMO.
That's very true. Unfortunately, I don't think relaunches are going to do them any good. No matter how talented the creative team is, the higher ups at Warner Bros. are more interested in maintaining these characters as IP's. DiDio and Johns could be fired right now, but even with new blood, they're still under Warner's thumb.
I've thought about that myself, and I've come to the conclusion that the editors and writers need to adapt like they did during the Comics Code era and find subtler ways of being creative and subversive.
This mad me guffaw. Somebody let me know just how horrible it turns out. Because it WILL be horrible.
You can count on us, Lash.
Hey, a little schlock every now and then doesn't hurt.
I don't want shlock. I want shmultz.
THERE IS A DIFFERENCE, SIRRAH.
Changes at DC. Whatever. Past the point of caring.
Though I must say that I'm liking some of their current stuff better than Nu52. Superman: American Alien is great.
I've already been tricked into watching this corpse get gangbanged enough times.
They should just relaunch everything and see if anyone notices.
TV and movies will be driving the comics, what's left of them. Why read a $4 comic when you get more story out of a single TV episode?
I didn't even click the link to read further, despite Sarky being great to let us know
Another sad plea of reinvention from Decreasing Circles.
I'm not picking up any titles following the sneak peeks, DCNu and various past events. Another restart/reboot/reimagining isn't going to get me interested. They seem to be coming faster and faster too, which makes me even less inclined to bother. Why invest in something, that as Cramer indicated, may not be value for money, if it's just going to be rebooted in five minutes. I'll come back after any relaunches have had a at least 52 issues under their belts. 52 more, if they have sneak peaks as poor as the last lot.
Legion aside, as I don't think I couldn't look. Well, squint expecting a car crash.
Considering I dumped nearly ALL DC after a few months of that horrible New 52, I'm going to wait to see what they do.
I figure, at this point, they have to prove to me they're worth getting back into bed with
Oh crap this means I have to worry about them drawing Roy Harper to look like Colton Haynes now. I hate Arrow!
cOLTON HAYNES IS A FOX!!!!!!
cOLTON HAYNES IS A FOX!!!!!!
Not content with just their comics, WB brass have decided to unleash Didio and company on the Hanna Barbera properties as well. Behold:
http://www.ew.com/2016/01/28/dc-entertainment-hanna-barbera-titles
That Scooby Doo book looks horrendous.
That Johnny Quest book, on the other hand, has my interst piqued. It feels more in the spirit of the show than the Scooby Doo book.
"Scooby Apocalypse" sounds like a really horrible attempt to duplicate the success of Afterlife with Archie.
I don't get it. They've alienated hundreds of thousands of loyal fans and driven the sales down to record lows, and the Warner Bros executives reward them with more power?? What kind of cockamamie corporate strategy can possibly justify that???
That Scooby Doo book looks horrendous.
That Johnny Quest book, on the other hand, has my interst piqued. It feels more in the spirit of the show than the Scooby Doo book.
Yeah, JQ meets the other HB Sci-Fi properties has some potential. But that Flintstones redesign is U-G-L-Y.
"Scooby Apocalypse" sounds like a really horrible attempt to duplicate the success of Afterlife with Archie.
The Flintstones artwork looks like they are trying to copy the revamped Archie artwork
Quest looks interesting, I agree.
Scooby makes me shake my head... so far from the original premise, and with DC's track record I am not optimistic.
The art on Flintstones, ugh
I loved the Wacky Races as a kid. I wonder what they plan to do with Wacky Race Land.
This is like having Charlie Manson baby sit your kids.
As always, Cobie sums it all up neatly and hilariously.
Cheers.
Have to question the choices here. Space Ghost teaming up with Coil-Man? Of all the Impossibles, why choose him?
“We didn’t want to just repeat what people saw in the past,” adds DiDio. “It’s really important for this to resonate with folks who have never even heard of the characters."
Who doesn't know the Flintstones? Has Didio never heard of DVDs? Is he unaware that there is an internet?
Let us all pray they don't try to insert casual racism in the JSA book.
*Looks at Ultimate Captain America*
This is like having Charlie Manson baby sit your kids.
But what kid doesn't like a Helter Skel...ah pants...Kids! Step away from the babysitter! Step away from the babysitter!
Any more news of which titles might get a re-start?
Dare we hope that we could see a new Legion book???
Any more news of which titles might get a re-start?
Dare we hope that we could see a new Legion book???
Honestly, would you really want a new Legion book from these idiots?
Any more news of which titles might get a re-start?
Dare we hope that we could see a new Legion book???
Honestly, would you really want a new Legion book from these idiots?
Well said, Hermit. And again, I have to ask, what kind of twisted corporate strategy can justify the Warners execs giving them even more power?
Any more news of which titles might get a re-start?
Dare we hope that we could see a new Legion book???
Honestly, would you really want a new Legion book from these idiots?
Well said, Hermit. And again, I have to ask, what kind of twisted corporate strategy can justify the Warners execs giving them even more power?
Sadomasochism?
Grimbor for the first villain then.
We could be optimistic!
I fully expect to get an awesome Legion comic out of this!
And then have it cancelled after five issues...
We could be optimistic!
I fully expect to get an awesome Legion comic out of this!
And then have it cancelled after five issues...
Go to your room.
Considering what they've done so far... I shudder
I swear to God if they kill Lian Harper again I am going to bring a flame thrower to NYCC this year.
What they're going to do is recreate her (since I don't think she exists in the DCFU), kill her, resurrect her and then trap her in a never-ending cycle of death & ressurrection
What they're going to do is recreate her (since I don't think she exists in the DCFU), kill her, resurrect her and then trap her in a never-ending cycle of death & ressurrection
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6ZfVe7sJDQ
So, a bunch of stuff announced today. Including Nightwing back in black & blue, and Tim Drake back in something approaching his original costume for the first time since Infinite Crisis.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/wondercon-dc-unveils-its-rebirth-creative-teamshttp://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/03...cements-at-wondercon-here-updating-live/
Thanks, 'Boot.
I haven't the slightest bit of interest in any of them.
I do find it amusing that Bryan Hitch will continue to write Justice League but not draw it.
Watched most of the livestream, and it really, really just looks like more of the same. Maybe the story beats will have something to offer, but there was nothing in the Didio/Lee/Johns hype show that I hadn't heard before.
Flogging a dead Super Horse really. What makes this any better than the last lot of reboots exactly? Or the one before or the one before or the one.. and that's just in recent years... >yawn<
... nothing to excite me in DC's rebirth announcements. There are some books I will get, but my response to the aggregate effect of the creative announcements was "Meh"
I'm actually surprised there are no new big name / exciting / "holy shit!" creative teams on the various series. I expected at least a few! It's the usual suspects really.
Priest on Deathstroke catches my interest but I doubt it lights the Internet on fire.
And Rucka on Wonder Woman? Typing those words almost put me to sleep. His first run was good but not in the top 5 WW runs of all time or anything. It's almost so predictable that it's snooze worthy.
It's like whoever was in the break room that day got a series. Guys like Kyle Higgins had diarrhea or had to run home to let the dog out and ended up no longer working for DC.
Meanwhile Dan Jurgens and Scott Lobdell's names accidentally keep getting copied and pasted each time DC redoes this and keep getting the same series.
I'm surprised it's not Cary Bates and Carmine Infantino on Flash or Robert Kanigher on SGT Rock.
Yeah the creative teams did seem like just a slight shuffling
There is no clear vision how this is a "rebirth"
And I'm stunned they could say "we saw the problems with the comics before the readers" ... but still went through with months of bad comics?
I'm looking forward to the first 6 issues of the Titans (just to see them in action together) ... after that the thrill will fade
And some of my fave books - Grayson, Midnighter and Omega Men - are not on the list. Sad.
I think the only thing which really surprised me about the character lineup is something I missed at first - that the main Superman is going to be the pre-Flashpoint guy, with wife & kid...
And Rucka on Wonder Woman? Typing those words almost put me to sleep. His first run was good but not in the top 5 WW runs of all time or anything. It's almost so predictable that it's snooze worthy.
I don't think it's predictable, if for no other reason than I seem to recall him burning bridges behind him when he left DC last time.
I enjoyed Rucka's prior run, although I agree it wasn't in the top 5 runs on WW or anything. I am interested still in what he does with WW, but, in today's environment, when there is an increased scrutiny on diversity in comic creators... it was really bad optics to let go WW's first regular female writer (I think? Jodi Picoult wrote some, but wasn't that a limited, sort-of-stunt-based writing assignment?) right at the last minute to put yet another white male on the book.
I agree with Cobalt Kid that I expected some "holy shit" creative team announcements, but alas, there were none. Maybe Tenzil ate them all.
Myg, my fave DC books right now are ALSO Grayson, Omega Men and Midnighter. Shame to see them all gone.
And the very idea that DC "saw the problems before the readers" is laughable. I snorted coffee thru my nose when I read that.
it was really bad optics to let go WW's first regular female writer (I think? Jodi Picoult wrote some, but wasn't that a limited, sort-of-stunt-based writing assignment?) right at the last minute to put yet another white male on the book.
Gail Simone was the first regular female writer on Wonder Woman. I've never been a big fan of hers, so maybe that colors my opinion, but I remember thinking at the time (2007?) that Simone was beginning to believe her own hype and her writing was getting increasingly self-indulgent and gimmicky (Etta Candy as Simone's Mary Sue, to cite the worst example.)
Gail Simone was the first regular female writer on Wonder Woman. I've never been a big fan of hers, so maybe that colors my opinion, but I remember thinking at the time (2007?) that Simone was beginning to believe her own hype and her writing was getting increasingly self-indulgent and gimmicky (Etta Candy as Simone's Mary Sue, to cite the worst example.)
Argh! Many thanks, Fanfic Lady, I forgot Gail Simone's run! I used to love Gail Simone (I loved the work she did on Black Canary and her first run on the Secret Six), but don't follow her much any longer (for reasons along the same lines as you mention, Fanfic Lady)... but, man, I really blanked on her WW run. Now that I am reminded of it, I didn't think it was very good.
Well Gail did that story about that awful WW movie that predicted... pretty much everything the Nu52 destroyed regarding Diana.
...
And on a related note, they're bringing Dinah Lance back! Ahahahahaha! CAN YOU TELL I'M NOT UPSET ABOUT EVERYTHING??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I feel that at this point DC should just become a video game division if it doesn't want to keep telling new stories in this medium. I admit to consuming most of my comic book stories through that medium at this point in my life. Both the Lego and more adult DC games have been excellent lately, while DC comics itself seems lost.
It feels like DC keeps rebooting the universe because they run out of ideas, or the fans complain about changes, or both. I barely keep up with DC anymore because I feel like it is pointless, since they will probably reboot everything again.
Gail Simone was the first regular female writer on Wonder Woman. I've never been a big fan of hers, so maybe that colors my opinion, but I remember thinking at the time (2007?) that Simone was beginning to believe her own hype and her writing was getting increasingly self-indulgent and gimmicky (Etta Candy as Simone's Mary Sue, to cite the worst example.)
Argh! Many thanks, Fanfic Lady, I forgot Gail Simone's run! I used to love Gail Simone (I loved the work she did on Black Canary and her first run on the Secret Six), but don't follow her much any longer (for reasons along the same lines as you mention, Fanfic Lady)... but, man, I really blanked on her WW run. Now that I am reminded of it, I didn't think it was very good.
You're very welcome, rokk steady. Glad I could be of help.
Discussing Simone's WW run in this thread reminds me of the moment when I knew it was going to be a letdown: in a Q&A with Simone, one fan asked her if Diana was going to battle Circe, to which Simone replied curtly, "No, I don't like Circe." I mean, a Wonder Woman run without any appearances by Circe? That's just wrong, IMO.
Wall of text incoming:
Sorry to hear that most of you guys didn't like the announcements. I caught the stream (it was like 3am and I was high on energy drinks :)) and I think the first half was great. Also, everyone in chat was bashing Scott Lobdell and I felt right at home
Btw, did anyone find it weird that Batman got his own panel/line-up/whatever but Wonder Woman had to share Superman's? If not one of her own (like Harley Quinn got for whatever reason) I feel she should've been with Aquaman and Green Lantern since she only has one series, but hey, Trinity.
I was happy about most of the
Bat-book stuff (I think Tynion is fiercely average at his very best and I hate hipster Batgirl,
and I'm the target demographic!), and I'm ecstatic that Cassandra Cain, Kate Kane and Stephanie Brown will be used again, and that Tim Drake will probably return to his roots as opposed to being Batman, Jr. but EVEN MORE OBSESSED!. And there's no sign of Harper Row! Hopefully she dies at the end of Batman and Robin Eternal, because otherwise, I feel Tynion would definitely have mentioned her. She's his Mary Sue character that I SWEAR has to be based off a high school crush of his or something. Also, everyone called it, but King on Batman and Seeley still writing Dick is a major plus for me, because those two were amazing on Grayson. I'm, glad King and Seeley are headlining the Bat-books (did anyone else feel like Nightwing was a bigger deal than Tec?), because they clearly understand the characters and relationships in the Bat-family. Oh, and the crowd cheered loudest, not when creators were announced or introduced but when it was announced Dick would be black and blue, and again, I felt I was among my people
I'm glad to see the
Superman line back in shape, after what was apparently an awful editorial era. I'm more interested in Pre-New 52 Supes, so I might catch Action Comics. I also like Jimenez's art, so Superwoman is a must get for me, and that was before I saw the costume, which I really like (it's its own thing, while incorporating other elements of the Superman family (I like the colour-inverted New 52 Supergirl 'S')). Oh, and calling it now, she's either New 52 Lois or Lucy Lane. I like Steve Orlando, but the way he talked about Supergirl made me feel like he might make her like she was for most of the New 52 -- punch everything in sight. Also, cover was very... unique. Oh, and I'll probs read Trinity for the art.
I like the
Wonder Woman team, but I've never read Rucka's Wonder Woman or Simone's. But they seem to not make her either a fresh off the boat lady or warrior woman cliche, so I'll read it. Plus, Nicola Scott's doing the art, and I love her. She's also really fun irl, so I have a bias there... she really likes talking about butts! It can't be any worse than the Finch run.
Aquaman also seems to be on the road to a full recovery. While I'm a bit disappointed Johns or Jeff Parker aren't returning, Abnett seems to be a Johns-approved writer, so why not. Glad to see Tula returning, because I really liked her rebooted version and it gives us the possibility of Atlantean double dates!
Everything else... eh. I kinda just stopped caring when they revealed Pre-New 52 Wally won't be returning -- though I'm pretty sure he;'s important, given how much Johns teased it and giggled with Williamson over Flash Rebirth -- but even if I hadn't, it all seemed a bit like an afterthought. Flash's villain Godspeed looks cool, but everything else is meh, and I say taht as someone who likes Joshua Williamson's Birthright (well, before I dropped it because I was picking up way too much) and Illuminatti (RIP). Also, his symbol looks like a parody, I'm pretty sure REAL LIGHTNING doesn't have taht much zigzags. Oh, and if they give Linda Park powers (I think she might be the girl on the cover), I'll be pissed. Green Lanterns looks alright, but I'm wary of it after the truly AMAZING amount of crossovers the line had over the last few years (and I read X-MEN COMICS!). Super Sons looks good, and I'll like it so long as it's youthful adventures rather than grimdark Lobdell-ian crap. Titans looks good, though I'm still disappointed in the lack of Wally (which was teased AGAIN here) and I hate Booth's artwork. That is gonna give me PTSD flashbacks to Lobdell's run, and he can't draw Garth's outfit to save his life. Teen Titans... again, don't like New 52 Wally, and the creative team's not for me. Oh,a dn I laughed so loud when Lobdell was put back on Red Hood and the Outlaws. My sis is a HUGE Red Hood fan, and she truly hates Lobdell. I hate him too, but at least they confined him to his own little corner with character I don't care about beyond MAYBE Jason himself (doesn't seem like he'll be getting to escape being badly written via guest appearances in Bat-books, since it RHatO was announced after the Bat-panel iirc, but I'm sure King or Seeley will throw him a bone). Oh, and the talk with Amanda Connor and Jimmy Palmiotti was incredibly cringe-worthy. Connor is just... not funny irl. Then again, I think DC's recent Harley stuff is incredibly dumb and pretty much Daniel Way Deadpool, so I guess her humour's not my cup of tea. But seriously, Tom King was funnier than her.
I'm surprised to hear criticism of Simone's WW run! I've never read it, but I only heard good things. Then again, I think this sit he case where you can't criticise it without being jumped on, especially with Simone's big online fanbase. I've ALWAYS found her to be overrated, and I find her dialogue, at least until her recent Secret Six run, to be VERY awkward. Like, she thinks people talk like internet commentors. It's a problem I've had with almost ALL of her work, aside from both Secret Six ongoings (and even then, the first one kinda still had it). Also, she thinks she's way funnier than she is. I'm not a Wondy fan, but I've always wanted to read her, specifically the Rucka stuff, because I loved his Batwoman and 52 stuff, but I would've read Simone as a second choice.
Haven't seen Circe in an age. Would love to see her again.
I thin she was in the Superman/Wonder Woman arc involving Magog.
Surely there's room to revisit Circe's connections with Comet the Super Horse, which is a direct link to the Legion? What has Circe being doing all these years? What animals will the Legion be turned into? Will Fuzzy Legion be a big enough hit for an ongoing?
I don't think I saw Circe before the Perez WW run. I don't think I have any villains I feel *must* be in something. From the Bat Villain Idol that Emily did, I noted that the Batman books I read first were ones without the overkill (literally or otherwise) of the *big* villains. As long as it's a good story, there's plenty of characters to explore.
Good post Fuzzy. I look forward to hearing what they're like when they're released.
Ah, thanks, Sarcasm Kid, I missed that, haven't been picking up Supes/WW lately.
I'm surprised to hear criticism of Simone's WW run! I've never read it, but I only heard good things. Then again, I think this sit he case where you can't criticise it without being jumped on, especially with Simone's big online fanbase. I've ALWAYS found her to be overrated, and I find her dialogue, at least until her recent Secret Six run, to be VERY awkward. Like, she thinks people talk like internet commentors. It's a problem I've had with almost ALL of her work, aside from both Secret Six ongoings (and even then, the first one kinda still had it). Also, she thinks she's way funnier than she is. I'm not a Wondy fan, but I've always wanted to read her, specifically the Rucka stuff, because I loved his Batwoman and 52 stuff, but I would've read Simone as a second choice.
I'd recommend reading the Perez WW run (though I think it is overrated to some extent, while other flaws were beyond Perez's control and were editorial's fault.) And while the Jimenez WW run gets a lot of criticism, I think it's mostly unwarranted; yes, sometimes it gets awkward and wordy, but it's also one of the few times where WW had the larger-than-life, semi-camp tone that I think works best for her book.
As far as Simone, I'm generally on the same page as you, Fuzzy Barbarian. Even stuff of hers that I really liked at the time, such the "Rose and Thorn" mini-series, does not hold up very well. In fairness, very little that DC published in the mid-2000s and beyond holds up very well, in my opinion.
Surely there's room to revisit Circe's connections with Comet the Super Horse, which is a direct link to the Legion? What has Circe being doing all these years? What animals will the Legion be turned into? Will Fuzzy Legion be a big enough hit for an ongoing?
I don't think I saw Circe before the Perez WW run. I don't think I have any villains I feel *must* be in something. From the Bat Villain Idol that Emily did, I noted that the Batman books I read first were ones without the overkill (literally or otherwise) of the *big* villains. As long as it's a good story, there's plenty of characters to explore.
Good post Fuzzy. I look forward to hearing what they're like when they're released.
Circe was an incidental character in the pre-Perez run. His building her up as a villainess to be reckoned with was IMO the best thing about his WW run. Jimenez also wrote Circe very well. Since those are the only two WW runs I find halfway decent, I'm admittedly biased about Circe being THE book's villain.
At this point I'm genuinely sick of the mythology villains in Wonder Woman since at this point DC has run them into the ground. It feels like there's little to no variety in WW's rogues gallery anymore.
I wish they'd bring back the likes of Silver Swan (yes I know the connection to Ares), Dr. Poison, Eviless, Hypnota, Zara, THEM, Veronica Cale, Doctor Cyber, Morgan La Fey or her daughter Morgana.
I wish they'd so stuff with the Holliday College Girls, or even bring back the likes of Queen Desira from Venus.
I'm partial to bringing back Queen Clea myself.
But Circe is still my favorite -- she's above and beyond the other mythology villains.
I know someone who really misses Circe's daughter, Lyta.
Her name IS Lyta, right?
Yes, that's her name.
I don't miss her.
I do miss Lyta Trevor, the way she was before the Crisis ruined her origin and Neil Gaiman dragged her through the mud.
Ahhh Lyta Trevor was AWESOME. I thought Geoff Johns was really going to bring her back in a meaningful way
I don't even know what to expect. I read the Previews advances and NOTHING looks interesting.
I will pick up the Detective Comics because I was a big Batman Family fan (back when it was a comic book) and this holds the same promise. We shall see...
Ahhh Lyta Trevor was AWESOME. I thought Geoff Johns was really going to bring her back in a meaningful way
Yay! Another Lyta Trevor fan! Cheers, Andy!
I think Lyta coming back in JSA and then being abruptly written out along with Hector Hall was one of the many instances of the whole Infinite Crisis build-up wrecking many DC writers' original plans with no warning and very bad planning.
Yay! Another Lyta Trevor fan! Cheers, Andy!
CHEERS TO FURY!
Oh God, poor Lyta. I shudder just thinking about the mess Robinson made out of her in Earth-2, just like he did with everyone else.
Because of COURSE the last Amazon, Wonder Woman's DAUGHTER, had to be brainwashed and nuts serving a male villain. OF COURSE. God I hate him.
The only positive aspect I could think is that Hector and Lyta would most likely have been spared by Flashpoint if they were inside the Dreaming. I can't even understand why Hector and Lyta had to die in the first place. I mean, look at the guy they replaced Hector with for Doctor Fate. Someone who just happened to have a similar name to the first Fate? And did he even have a personality or was he just... there?
I think Robinson made the connection between Fury and Female Furies and just ran it too far. I also kind of felt that the whole Earth-2 being attacked by the Fourth World was kind of fitting, since Kirby/Marvel basically destroyed/transformed what comics were before.
Re: Rebirth - Still set in the DCFU? Still not interested. (The only title that had a shot of getting me to buy it was 'Titans' due to my love of Lilith and all things groovy 70s Titans, but then I saw that my #1 most disliked artist in comics, Brett Booth, is drawing it.
His artwork, especially his faces, physically repulses me.)
Re: Circe - I like her but I don't think any Wonder Woman writer should be beholden to using her (or Ares or Cheetah or whoever), just like I don't think any Batman writer should be beholden to using Joker or Penguin or Ra's al Ghul or whoever. In fact, I would MUCH PREFER it if writers did move away from the same old, same old 'major' villains and start utilising and developing DC's huge back-catalogue of interesting 'minor' villains more.
Re: Gail Simone - SO good to see others who share my view that she is an extremely overrated writer. I echo everything Fuzzy Barbarian said about her writing, especially his/her comment that she seems to think people talk like internet commenters! Her dialogue has always bugged me and you have finally made me realise why! I think that might be why I also find her humour so unfunny too. Another problem I have with her writing is that there is a really nasty streak running through it, in terms of how she treats certain characters. When the writers under Dan Didio's regime are finally held to account, Nuremberg style, for the way they have butchered and debased so many of the great characters in the DCU, Gail Simone should absolutely be up there with them.
Re: Wonder Woman - All that said, I actually thought Simone's first story arc on Wonder Woman, 'Ends of the Earth', was really good. The fabulous Aaron Lopresti artwork helped. As did an appearance by the ultra-obscure DC character, Stalker. It became a fairly average run after that though and then went totally off the rails when the ludicrous Genocide got introduced. I echo mostly everyone else's praise for the George Perez run though. If you're going to read any post-Crisis Wonder Woman stories, read them. I've heard good things about the Greg Rucka run but I couldn't last beyond the first three boring issues. He's another writer I find extremely overrated though (not bad, just nowhere near as good as everyone makes him out to be) so opinions may vary.
Re: Fury - Infinity Inc. is a shameful blind spot in my comics collection so I only know her from random appearances elsewhere in the DCU, but I've always liked her as well. I couldn't believe it when she and Hector got killed off so suddenly and nonsensically in JSA. After all that time building up their return to the DCU, and then they just drop dead on a random snowy mountain somewhere?!? Why would the writers/editors do that?!? There MUST be a behind-the-scenes story about that! Like, maybe some proprietary issue with the Vertigo editors or... or... some other reason I can't think of right now? I just find it unfathomable that DC would just kill off these two potential-filled characters for absolutely no reason. (This is Dan Didio's DCU though, so...)
I mean, look at the guy they replaced Hector with for Doctor Fate. Someone who just happened to have a similar name to the first Fate? And did he even have a personality or was he just... there?
I actually really liked Kent V. Nelson in the Countdown to Mystery series by Gerber. It was a shame he died before it finished. Subsequent uses of the character in JSA and elsewhere were quite bland.
I am digging Khalid Nassour as the new Fate, and I hope that series somehow survives into Rebirth.
I'd recommend reading the Perez WW run (though I think it is overrated to some extent, while other flaws were beyond Perez's control and were editorial's fault.) And while the Jimenez WW run gets a lot of criticism, I think it's mostly unwarranted; yes, sometimes it gets awkward and wordy, but it's also one of the few times where WW had the larger-than-life, semi-camp tone that I think works best for her book.
As far as Simone, I'm generally on the same page as you, Fuzzy Barbarian. Even stuff of hers that I really liked at the time, such the "Rose and Thorn" mini-series, does not hold up very well. In fairness, very little that DC published in the mid-2000s and beyond holds up very well, in my opinion.
Yeah, I want to read the Perez run, and it's even got an omnibus, but I've heard it's pretty wordy, and I'm still working my way through the third Uncanny X-Men omnibus. Just can't deal with another wordy old comic. I'll get around to it one of these days
When it comes to Wonder Woman, I'm not even sure what I'm looking for half the time. I don't want generic warrior woman crap, that's for sure. But if it's just... I dunno, bureaucratic negotiations and the like (?), I have Aquaman and Black Panther for that. I guess Diana has a more mythic feel than those two... but the upcoming Black Panther run seems like it'll have that feel too, so... huh. And I really, REALLY hate the "I don't understand human customs" type of stories. It's fine for maybe a supporting character for a while, but for MAIN characters, it's just boring and cliche. So THAT version of Diana is on my list of characters I hate adn actively avoid, along with almost all characters written like that. The only exception is Mera in
Aquaman, because she barely does it and it's more tolerable there.
Re: Circe - I like her but I don't think any Wonder Woman writer should be beholden to using her (or Ares or Cheetah or whoever), just like I don't think any Batman writer should be beholden to using Joker or Penguin or Ra's al Ghul or whoever. In fact, I would MUCH PREFER it if writers did move away from the same old, same old 'major' villains and start utilising and developing DC's huge back-catalogue of interesting 'minor' villains more.
Re: Gail Simone - SO good to see others who share my view that she is an extremely overrated writer. I echo everything Fuzzy Barbarian said about her writing, especially his/her comment that she seems to think people talk like internet commenters! Her dialogue has always bugged me and you have finally made me realise why! I think that might be why I also find her humour so unfunny too. Another problem I have with her writing is that there is a really nasty streak running through it, in terms of how she treats certain characters. When the writers under Dan Didio's regime are finally held to account, Nuremberg style, for the way they have butchered and debased so many of the great characters in the DCU, Gail Simone should absolutely be up there with them.
You're welcome
The first time I realised why I hated her dialogue was I think her first issue of Birds of Prey, when this happened:
Guy: I like your stockings.
Black Canary: You and most of the straight male population.
Gail Simone: Is this unit correct in depicting how the human speaks? 1011100?
Seriously, who the fuck talks like that? Just say "most men do" or something! Her Batgirl run had a similar problem, but it wasn't as bad there. No, there, Simone just really, REALLY wanted to be Joss Whedon/Brian Michael Bendis and capture a young person's voice, but it fell flat because I'm pretty sure she, like Scott Lobdell, doesn't actually know any young people and thinks nonchalant talks-like-this-really-quickly-with-this-weird-style-of-writing is all that's needed. Actually, typing that out, was DC trying to balance the scales with the Stewart/Tarr batgirl run? To far in the opposite direction, guys!
I feel the same about Circe, Blac. I mean, I feel that writers shouldn't feel pressured to using a character if that character isn't essential to the series. But I get that it can be annoying when characters aren't used (hey, I'm a Cassandra Cain fan), especially if they SHOULD be used. Something else else that made me really dislike Scott Snyder for a while is his reason for not using Damian Wayne in "Endgame" - Scott has a son around Damian's age, so he finds it hard to write him... wut. It doesn't matter, you're writing a Bat-family story, SO USE THE WHOLE BAT-FAMILY! Plus it threw off the timeline of the Bat-books. But with VILLAINS... using the same guys over and over again can feel stale. As much as I hate them these days, the Court of Owls, when initially introduced, felt refreshing. Sure, they got stale real quick and are now really overused, but at first it was nice not to have another Joker/Ra's story. Part of what I love about Grant Morrison's Batman is taht, for most of its life, new villains were used, and they were so different from what came before that it was so fresh! and when the old rogues DID return, it was so much more special!
I am digging Khalid Nassour as the new Fate, and I hope that series somehow survives into Rebirth.
Sorry mate, that thing is at cancellation numbers. I feel like DC might bring back Fate for the JSA or Earth-2, but I can see the new Fate fitting in alright if they don't use one of the older Fates. Whatever happens, I don't think the SERIES is surviving past Rebirth. If any comic with cancellation-level print sales is gonna survive, it's Midnighter -- which apparently sells well digitally, and has a vocal fanbase as well as LGBT coverage -- and I don't think that's making it either (pretty sure he'll be a supporting character in Nightwing or Batman, given his newfound popularity).
Some Wonder Woman thoughts since every one seems to be enjoying the digression: enjoyed Perez; also really enjoyed Jimenez's run which I think is greatly underappreciated and misunderstood; liked Rucka's run at first but it got really boring really fast and felt like he was trying too hard; didn't like Simon's run either; and I actually feel that John Byrne's run was pretty terrific. Byrne did something that almost no WW writers have done in decades: he treated WW as an awesome superhero series, and it felt run and refreshing! When people think of the most iconic female superhero of all time, they think of Wonder Woman. So while I udnerstand playing up mythology and other stuff, DC should really embrace and enjoy the superhero element of their icon.
And a question for everyone: what's the story with Superman? It's the pre-DCnU Superman? Meaning what? The post-Crisis Superman that is married to Lois Lane? And he has a kid or something? Who can even keep track of this stuff anymore. It's easy to forget that before DCnU, Didio had already ruined the old universe too for a couple of years from about 2003 to the present.
Some Wonder Woman thoughts since every one seems to be enjoying the digression: enjoyed Perez; also really enjoyed Jimenez's run which I think is greatly underappreciated and misunderstood; liked Rucka's run at first but it got really boring really fast and felt like he was trying too hard; didn't like Simon's run either; and I actually feel that John Byrne's run was pretty terrific. Byrne did something that almost no WW writers have done in decades: he treated WW as an awesome superhero series, and it felt run and refreshing! When people think of the most iconic female superhero of all time, they think of Wonder Woman. So while I udnerstand playing up mythology and other stuff, DC should really embrace and enjoy the superhero element of their icon.
And a question for everyone: what's the story with Superman? It's the pre-DCnU Superman? Meaning what? The post-Crisis Superman that is married to Lois Lane? And he has a kid or something? Who can even keep track of this stuff anymore. It's easy to forget that before DCnU, Didio had already ruined the old universe too for a couple of years from about 2003 to the present.
I'm not sure, but I think
Superman features the New 52 Superman. I knwo for a fact that
Action Comics features both him AND Pre-New 52 Superman, the one from
Lois and Clark who's got a son named Jonathan. He was apparently in the New 52 the entire time, and was even there when Darkseid first invaded, but always stays out of the action unless truly needed. He and Lois are going under Clark and Lois WHITE, and Jon doesn't know his heritage. It's actually a decent series, with things like Superman being worried Hank Henshaw will turn into Cyborg Superman, and addresses why he ISN'T Cyborg Superman. Kinda like a more upbeat and sentimental Old Man Logan.
As for the old universe, I'm of the mind that most of it sucked after Final Crisis. Aside from the Bat-books -- which were really at their peak in that time (aside from poor treatment of Cassandra Cain)-- Booster Gold and Blue Beetle, it wasn't a good time. The Flash books got screwed over with Barry's return and the true mediocrity and genuinely bad stories that followed, Wonder Woman was in a bad place, Superman was doing the "Grounded" crap, Johns used Blackest Night and Final Crisis as excuses to kill off characters that replaced Silver Age characters -- even those HE HIMSELF CREATED in the case of Zoom -- and just... ehhhh, not much good. But at least the Bat-books were good! And Booster Gold and Blue Beetle! Admittedly, I haven't read some of the apparently better stuff like the "Black Ring" arc from Action Comics and the apparently okay Aquaman stuff.
Some Wonder Woman thoughts since every one seems to be enjoying the digression: enjoyed Perez; also really enjoyed Jimenez's run which I think is greatly underappreciated and misunderstood; liked Rucka's run at first but it got really boring really fast and felt like he was trying too hard; didn't like Simon's run either; and I actually feel that John Byrne's run was pretty terrific. Byrne did something that almost no WW writers have done in decades: he treated WW as an awesome superhero series, and it felt run and refreshing! When people think of the most iconic female superhero of all time, they think of Wonder Woman. So while I udnerstand playing up mythology and other stuff, DC should really embrace and enjoy the superhero element of their icon.
And a question for everyone: what's the story with Superman? It's the pre-DCnU Superman? Meaning what? The post-Crisis Superman that is married to Lois Lane? And he has a kid or something? Who can even keep track of this stuff anymore. It's easy to forget that before DCnU, Didio had already ruined the old universe too for a couple of years from about 2003 to the present.
First off: Despite that many of us are legitimately pissed off at Byrne for making an even bigger mess of Donna Troy's backstory, he created Dark Angel, my ABSOLUTE favorite WW and Titans villain, so he gets a pass.
Second: Regarding Superman. At the end of Convergence, the Superman and Lois Lane of the pre-Flashpoint DCU ended up stuck in the DCnU along with their infant son, Jon. As Superman: Lois and Clark details, they've been living in the DCnU ever since the Justice League first fought Darkseid. They're going to be the main characters in Action Comics following Rebirth, and their son is teaming up with Damian Wayne in "Super-Sons."
Also, I will say this about Gail Simone.
Not even her writing is enough to make me stop hating Dinah Lance.
^ Dare I ask why you hate Dinah Lance? I thought, as a Roy/Lian Harper fan, you might like that member of the Arrow family too.
Black Canary used to be my favourite female character once upon a time, but I really soured on her in the 2000s. I think she can be an amazing character when characterised correctly though, and IMO could and should be the #2 heroic femme in the DCU (after Wonder Woman) in terms of stature/respect/recognition/etc.
Re: the pre-Flashpoint DCU - Total agreement that it almost completely sucked (other than a few bright points like Morrison's awesome Batman). I hadn't been enjoying it for a long time so Flashpoint did me a favour in a way. I am in no rush to return to a DCU in which Superman suddenly seems to have produced a pre-teen son out of nowhere. (Seriously, I thought I was following Superman up until Flashpoint and I have no memory of this "son" appearing.)
I would actually love to return to the DCU of 1985 right before Crisis hit. That is my favourite version for almost all of these characters. I'd love to see DC develop an alternate history in which the 5 surviving Earths didn't merge and we got to read the continuing adventures of the characters on those different Earths, incorporating all of the best elements of the post-Crisis DCU (like Booster Gold, JLI, Suicide Squad, etc.) along the way.
It's easy to forget that before DCnU, Didio had already ruined the old universe too for a couple of years from about 2003 to the present.
Absolutely. I blame Superman #200, which wasn't the first bad story of course, but was the point at which they started ####ing up the universe ITSELF rather than just individual characters. Of course, other stuff like the Legion "threeboot" and "Graduation Day" followed, with more to come...
I'm not sure, but I think Superman features the New 52 Superman.
Not as the lead character. Here's the cover and solicit for the newest Superman #1:
SUPERMAN #1
Written by PETER J. TOMASI
Art and cover by PATRICK GLEASON and MICK GRAY
Variant cover by KENNETH ROCAFORT
Retailers: This issue will ship with two covers. Please see the order form for details.
“THE SON OF SUPERMAN” Chapter One
The Last Son of Krypton must decide whether to help his young son use his new and rapidly increasing abilities, or hide them from the world.
THE CREATORS: The team supreme that brought fans the adventures of Damian Wayne in BATMAN AND ROBIN returns for the adventures of Superman and his offspring.
On sale JUNE 15 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US • RATED T
Note that what he's ripping off to reveal the blue suit & classic \S/ is the black suit the bearded pre-DCFU Superman's been wearing in
Superman: Lois & Clark.
This is also the same guy who's appearing in every other solicit & announcement featuring Superman, including Justice League, Action Comics, Super Sons and so on.
Apparently, the last arc of the current titles is a team-up with a load of "Super" characters, including N52 Superman, pre-DCFU Superman, Supergirl and so on. Either there or in the DCU Rebirth one-shot, something's clearly happening to the guy with the high collar.
Re: the pre-Flashpoint DCU - Total agreement that it almost completely sucked (other than a few bright points like Morrison's awesome Batman). I hadn't been enjoying it for a long time so Flashpoint did me a favour in a way. I am in no rush to return to a DCU in which Superman suddenly seems to have produced a pre-teen son out of nowhere. (Seriously, I thought I was following Superman up until Flashpoint and I have no memory of this "son" appearing.)
As was said, it happened in Convergence.
^ Huh, weird thing those solicitations. New 52 Superman is DEFINITELY sticking around though, Jurgens said as much on the panel itself, and that he'll be investigating Pre-New 52 Superman, as will Lex.
Also, I will say this about Gail Simone.
Not even her writing is enough to make me stop hating Dinah Lance.
Huh, that's the first I've heard of anyone HATING her. I just find her to be a kinda boring character, though I haven;t read much of her. I dunno, she doesn't have much of a personality based on things I've read. I may give Hal Jordan crap for being an idiot, but at elast he's GOT a personality.
^ Dare I ask why you hate Dinah Lance? I thought, as a Roy/Lian Harper fan, you might like that member of the Arrow family too.
Re: the pre-Flashpoint DCU - Total agreement that it almost completely sucked (other than a few bright points like Morrison's awesome Batman). I hadn't been enjoying it for a long time so Flashpoint did me a favour in a way. I am in no rush to return to a DCU in which Superman suddenly seems to have produced a pre-teen son out of nowhere. (Seriously, I thought I was following Superman up until Flashpoint and I have no memory of this "son" appearing.)
Isn't it a sore point for BoP and Canary fans to call her a member of the Arrow family? And apparently, NOBODY liked her marrying Oliver Queen.
I think his son was born during Convergence.
^ Dare I ask why you hate Dinah Lance? I thought, as a Roy/Lian Harper fan, you might like that member of the Arrow family too.
Black Canary used to be my favourite female character once upon a time, but I really soured on her in the 2000s. I think she can be an amazing character when characterised correctly though, and IMO could and should be the #2 heroic femme in the DCU (after Wonder Woman) in terms of stature/respect/recognition/etc.
Re: the pre-Flashpoint DCU - Total agreement that it almost completely sucked (other than a few bright points like Morrison's awesome Batman). I hadn't been enjoying it for a long time so Flashpoint did me a favour in a way. I am in no rush to return to a DCU in which Superman suddenly seems to have produced a pre-teen son out of nowhere. (Seriously, I thought I was following Superman up until Flashpoint and I have no memory of this "son" appearing.)
I would actually love to return to the DCU of 1985 right before Crisis hit. That is my favourite version for almost all of these characters. I'd love to see DC develop an alternate history in which the 5 surviving Earths didn't merge and we got to read the continuing adventures of the characters on those different Earths, incorporating all of the best elements of the post-Crisis DCU (like Booster Gold, JLI, Suicide Squad, etc.) along the way.
Her washing her hands of Roy and considering him a lost cause in "Rise of Arsenal" when she finally had the opportunity to actually help him. I've hated her ever since. And I'm talking legitimate hatred. I tried rereading the opening issues for the Birds of Prey series after Blackest Night and I just got incredibly uncomfortable and angry every time she was in a panel.
Her washing her hands of Roy and considering him a lost cause in "Rise of Arsenal" when she finally had the opportunity to actually help him. I've hated her ever since. And I'm talking legitimate hatred. I tried rereading the opening issues for the Birds of Prey series after Blackest Night and I just got incredibly uncomfortable and angry every time she was in a panel.
I mean, to be fair, EVERYONE was kinda an inconsiderate asshole in Rise of Arsenal, even Dick Grayson of all people. I like to just eject that story from my memory... man, I used to think Roy was a cool character, being a single dad and all, then they stripped that away for whatever reason... then jsut made him a generic "talkative Scott Lobdell character" in the New 52... poor Roy, hopefully Abnett treats him better, because while I've never read him that much, he has potential. But I guess everyone from the original Titans had potential, it just wasn't realised that well beyond Dick, Wally, Tempest (even if he was underused) and maybe Donna.
Rise of Arsenal and Cry for Justice I feel were just weird attempts to reinvent Roy Harper's character. Like, did DC realise Jason Todd was being underutilised as their Bucky Barnes, and decide to have another go at it? And then they did it AGAIN with Dick Grayson with Forever Evil, though Grayson against all odds is amazingly good. I guess third time, and a talented creative team, is the charm.
I may give Hal Jordan crap for being an idiot, but at elast he's GOT a personality.
No, not strong enough...
That's better.
'Rise of Arsenal' and 'Whine About Justice' don't exist. Please report to the science lab to have your memory chips replaced.
Her washing her hands of Roy and considering him a lost cause in "Rise of Arsenal" when she finally had the opportunity to actually help him. I've hated her ever since. And I'm talking legitimate hatred. I tried rereading the opening issues for the Birds of Prey series after Blackest Night and I just got incredibly uncomfortable and angry every time she was in a panel.
I mean, to be fair, EVERYONE was kinda an inconsiderate asshole in Rise of Arsenal, even Dick Grayson of all people. I like to just eject that story from my memory... man, I used to think Roy was a cool character, being a single dad and all, then they stripped that away for whatever reason... then jsut made him a generic "talkative Scott Lobdell character" in the New 52... poor Roy, hopefully Abnett treats him better, because while I've never read him that much, he has potential. But I guess everyone from the original Titans had potential, it just wasn't realised that well beyond Dick, Wally, Tempest (even if he was underused) and maybe Donna.
Rise of Arsenal and Cry for Justice I feel were just weird attempts to reinvent Roy Harper's character. Like, did DC realise Jason Todd was being underutilised as their Bucky Barnes, and decide to have another go at it? And then they did it AGAIN with Dick Grayson with Forever Evil, though Grayson against all odds is amazingly good. I guess third time, and a talented creative team, is the charm.
Oh no, believe me, no one on this site knows more than me how horrible the characters in ROA acted. You should've seen my posts when it first came out.
It's also a mutual hatred shared with Green Arrow. Like, the whole reason they killed Lian and mutilated Roy was for the sake of shaking up the Arrow Family because of the botched marriage storyline. Roy and Lian didn't deserve to be jerked around because of Oliver and Dinah.
Dinah grates me especially because she spent most of ROA walking around stoic and lacking in emotions towards nearly everything, and that she didn't help Roy even when she could angered me as someone with abandonment issues of my own. Dinah's supposed to be better than that, but she acts just as inconsiderate as Ollie tends to do. And Roy's the one who pays for it.
And almost no one calls Dinah out on what she did, which feels especially hypocritical considering Ollie constantly has his screw-ups concerning Roy thrown back at him on a daily basis. There was that one part in Birds of Prey when Dinah was forced to relive her worst mistakes, but I felt it would've meant more if another, actual person had specifically called her out on what she did to Roy instead of mental torture.
Oh, and her acting like Ollie getting raped by Shado was ollie cheating on her... I look forward to when she dies.
'Rise of Arsenal' and 'Whine About Justice' don't exist. Please report to the science lab to have your memory chips replaced.
100% agree.
'Rise of Arsenal' and 'Whine About Justice' don't exist. Please report to the science lab to have your memory chips replaced.
Yeah, I really need to get those fixed. I'm also remembering this thing called Civil War... and something about Fear Itself? And this weird, intrusive thing called Avengers Vs. X-Men? I dunno, weird...
Oh, and holy crap another Australian! One who is up at weird-ass hours!
Oh no, believe me, no one on this site knows more than me how horrible the characters in ROA acted. You should've seen my posts when it first came out.
It's also a mutual hatred shared with Green Arrow. Like, the whole reason they killed Lian and mutilated Roy was for the sake of shaking up the Arrow Family because of the botched marriage storyline. Roy and Lian didn't deserve to be jerked around because of Oliver and Dinah.
Dinah grates me especially because she spent most of ROA walking around stoic and lacking in emotions towards nearly everything, and that she didn't help Roy even when she could angered me as someone with abandonment issues of my own. Dinah's supposed to be better than that, but she acts just as inconsiderate as Ollie tends to do. And Roy's the one who pays for it.
And almost no one calls Dinah out on what she did, which feels especially hypocritical considering Ollie constantly has his screw-ups concerning Roy thrown back at him on a daily basis. There was that one part in Birds of Prey when Dinah was forced to relive her worst mistakes, but I felt it would've meant more if another, actual person had specifically called her out on what she did to Roy instead of mental torture.
Oh, and her acting like Ollie getting raped by Shado was ollie cheating on her... I look forward to when she dies.
Oh yeeeaaah, forgot about the Shado rape thing... okay, I get it. Everything else could also be applied to, well, everyone in RoA, so I'm gonna give her a pass on that. But the Shado thing... yeah. Oh, I forgot, there's also the "send-off" for Connor Hawke, which had him lose his ability to ability to do archery but making up for it by being a much more inadequate hand-to-hand fighter, and Dinah thinking that was a happy ending for him... I think. That's what I've heard at least.
Her washing her hands of Roy and considering him a lost cause in "Rise of Arsenal" when she finally had the opportunity to actually help him.
Perhaps Dinah wanted to help, but heard about Roy abusing dead cats in alleyways. That's tough for anyone to deal with.
Re: Circe - I like her but I don't think any Wonder Woman writer should be beholden to using her (or Ares or Cheetah or whoever), just like I don't think any Batman writer should be beholden to using Joker or Penguin or Ra's al Ghul or whoever. In fact, I would MUCH PREFER it if writers did move away from the same old, same old 'major' villains and start utilising and developing DC's huge back-catalogue of interesting 'minor' villains more..
Of course, if writers did inject a whole load of great new villains, would they properly reimbursed by DC? Their entire history would suggest not. So, I don't blame them for taking the ideas elsewhere. It's just a shame that no other hero universe has the same appeal for me as the DC one.
When the writers under Dan Didio's regime are finally held to account, Nuremberg style, ...
Personally, I think second division Bundesliga footy is too good for 'em...
This thread has certainly made me realise how disconnected I am from DCU. I never really followed particular names. I recognise names even less, the fewer Big 2 titles I buy. Currently none.
What also strikes me is that I feel I've missed out on absolutely nothing of interest. If only I'd stopped reading before Rise of Arse/ Fart of Justice. That was truly awful. Even by standards set so low by DC, that every issue had the chance of a crossover with Marvel's Mole Men, that was complete rubbish.
Her washing her hands of Roy and considering him a lost cause in "Rise of Arsenal" when she finally had the opportunity to actually help him. I've hated her ever since. And I'm talking legitimate hatred. I tried rereading the opening issues for the Birds of Prey series after Blackest Night and I just got incredibly uncomfortable and angry every time she was in a panel.
I mean, to be fair, EVERYONE was kinda an inconsiderate asshole in Rise of Arsenal, even Dick Grayson of all people. I like to just eject that story from my memory... man, I used to think Roy was a cool character, being a single dad and all, then they stripped that away for whatever reason... then jsut made him a generic "talkative Scott Lobdell character" in the New 52... poor Roy, hopefully Abnett treats him better, because while I've never read him that much, he has potential. But I guess everyone from the original Titans had potential, it just wasn't realised that well beyond Dick, Wally, Tempest (even if he was underused) and maybe Donna.
Rise of Arsenal and Cry for Justice I feel were just weird attempts to reinvent Roy Harper's character. Like, did DC realise Jason Todd was being underutilised as their Bucky Barnes, and decide to have another go at it? And then they did it AGAIN with Dick Grayson with Forever Evil, though Grayson against all odds is amazingly good. I guess third time, and a talented creative team, is the charm.
Oh no, believe me, no one on this site knows more than me how horrible the characters in ROA acted. You should've seen my posts when it first came out.
It's also a mutual hatred shared with Green Arrow. Like, the whole reason they killed Lian and mutilated Roy was for the sake of shaking up the Arrow Family because of the botched marriage storyline. Roy and Lian didn't deserve to be jerked around because of Oliver and Dinah.
Dinah grates me especially because she spent most of ROA walking around stoic and lacking in emotions towards nearly everything, and that she didn't help Roy even when she could angered me as someone with abandonment issues of my own. Dinah's supposed to be better than that, but she acts just as inconsiderate as Ollie tends to do. And Roy's the one who pays for it.
And almost no one calls Dinah out on what she did, which feels especially hypocritical considering Ollie constantly has his screw-ups concerning Roy thrown back at him on a daily basis. There was that one part in Birds of Prey when Dinah was forced to relive her worst mistakes, but I felt it would've meant more if another, actual person had specifically called her out on what she did to Roy instead of mental torture.
Oh, and her acting like Ollie getting raped by Shado was ollie cheating on her... I look forward to when she dies.
While I understand what you are saying, I think you're going to frustrate yourself to no end if you disassociate with characters over one bad story/writer. Every character has had some rotten stuff done with them and your blacklist will just grow exponentially. It's one thing to avoid Robinson and his storytelling, or characters who are portrayed poorly on a consistent basis, but swearing off of entire groups of characters over aberrant stories is going to drive you nuts.
That Cave Carson book sounds kind of awesome!
I have to admit that I might give Doom Patrol a one-issue fair trial. Bringing back my beloved Flex Mentallo certainly doesn't hurt. And if Way's going to acknowledge the entire DP mythos, maybe we'll even see the return of Kate "Coagula" Godwin.
Thanks, Dave.
These actually look awesome! I'm surprised DC didn't include these in the initial rebirth announcements. I'll probably try out all of them (or at least all but the Gotham related one).
I'm surprised at how dedicated Gerard Way is to getting his Doom Patrol book started.
Now if only we had more news on the Umbrella Academy.
Wow
Those books look WAY more interesting than the rest of Rebirth (you know someone is going to call the new line the "After Rebirth")
Like Cobie, I'll give them all a try ... they sound interesting and I like the character designs
My only issue with Way is that he's known to be slavishly devoted to Morrison. I'm a Morrison fan myself, but find when other's (who are talented in their own right) try to emulate him, it doesn't always go well (See Jeff Lemire). Hopefully he keeps things original.
I'm surprised DC didn't include these in the initial rebirth announcements.
I'm not. Even presuming they had the contracts and so forth signed (no guarantee - apparently things were still being changed right up to the last minute of the announcements, and Super Sons *still* doesn't have a creative team), a whole new imprint would have been lost in the crowd there. Not to mention "would have left them nothing to announce at ECCC!"
They don't look terrible. I can reread Morrison and Milligan's run on Doom Patrol and Shade while I wait to see if these versions have any staying power.
If you guys want a good indicator of how Gerard Way could do a Doom Patrol book, read Umbrella Academy.
Sigh. What's the point?
You know I was secretly hoping the end of Lois and Clark would have the Kents finding a way back to the pre-Flashpoint DC Universe as a way of clarifying it still exists, but having them stick around in the DCnU just means that's never happening, does it?
Black Magick is going on hiatus so Rucka and Scott have time to work on Wonder Woman.
It's not worth it.
So, next week's Rebirth issue has leaked:
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/05...u-wont-believe-dc-comics-has-gone-there/According to Bleeding Cool, in increasing order of WTF:
1) [A version of] Real Wally West is back, wearing his Kid Flash suit.
2) The JSA is back
3) ...there are three Jokers??
4) Dr. Manhattan from Watchmen created this DCU?!!?!?!!
YAY to the first two, NAY to the second two
Newsarama has more now,
including a page with
meeting Barry, and a
brownnosing, spoiler-filled review.
So is DC reopening the pre-Flashpoint timeline? I thought Convergence put that to rest.
http://uk.ign.com/articles/2016/05/21/dc-universe-rebirth-1-full-spoilers-leak-onlineSo is DC reopening the pre-Flashpoint timeline? I thought Convergence put that to rest.
What's being said seems to be in-line with the "evolved" thing from the end of Convergence - that the New 52 is a twisted version of the pre-FP timeline, not a separate thing.
Wow! A Geoff Johns written event that's supposed to alter DC continuity and radically change the tone of their comics? That's something we've never seen before!
Wow! A Geoff Johns written event that's supposed to alter DC continuity and radically change the tone of their comics? That's something we've never seen before!
I would say things would be better if Infinite Crisis had never happened - but, really, it's all Waid's fault with Superman Birthright and the LSH threeboot. He, quite literally, started this avalanche after ten years of relative stability...
Ozymandias: But you'd regained interest in human life.
Dr. Manhattan: Yes, I have. I think perhaps I'll create some.
Alan Moore (about the Watchmen prequels): All the nasty comments that I was making when I was angry – about the comics industry not having had an idea of its own in the last 40 years and not having sufficient talent any more to create new ideas – these are very unkind things to say about an entire industry. But, it would seem that DC are really going that extra mile in trying to prove me incontrovertibly right."
It looks like DC have managed another way to mine Alan Moore's work further. They're on to fracking it for all it's worth.
I think I'll go pick up a novel by James Joyce. I'll have more of a chance to comprehend it.
A very spoilery breakdown I just read of Rebirth seems to paint Doc Manhattan less as the creator of the DCU and more as the one behind the changes that occurred after Flashpoint. It seems this has always been the same DCU all along, just altered. So basically, Manhattan is apparently DC's next Big Bad if I'm reading this correctly.
I think I'll go pick up a novel by James Joyce. I'll have more of a chance to comprehend it.
DC Comic's Wake:
riverrun, past Diana and Kal's, from swerve of shore to bend of bay, brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Fortress of Solitude and Batcave.
Bruce Wayne, violer d'amores, fr'over the short sea, had passencore rearrived from Gothom City on this side the scraggy isthmus of Themiscrya to wielderfight his penisolate war: nor had topsawyer's rocks by the stream Oconee exaggerated themselse to Atlantis's gorgios while they went doublin their mumper all the time: nor avoice from afire bellowsed mishe mishe to tauftauf thuartpeatrick: not yet, though venissoon after, had a kidscad buttended a bland old isaac: not yet, though all's fair in vanessy, were sosie sesthers wroth with twone nathandjoe. Rot a peck of pa's malt had Damian or Dick brewed by arclight and rory end to the regginbrow was to be seen ringsome on the Aquaman.
So I have even more justification to hate Watchmen.
Good.
So I have even more justification to hate Watchmen.
Good.
Don' worry, chere. I'm sure the new Titans series will bring Lien back, establish Roy forgot she existed, the kill her off as soon as he remembers
So I have even more justification to hate Watchmen.
Good.
Don' worry, chere. I'm sure the new Titans series will bring Lien back, establish Roy forgot she existed, the kill her off as soon as he remembers
I'm torn. I really want to see a whole new slate of DC books - so Rebirth is good for that BUT I'm not sold on these particular books.
PLUS, I really enjoyed Omega Men, Midnighter and Grayson - and they're all gone (so that sucks)
A very spoilery breakdown I just read of Rebirth seems to paint Doc Manhattan less as the creator of the DCU and more as the one behind the changes that occurred after Flashpoint. It seems this has always been the same DCU all along, just altered. So basically, Manhattan is apparently DC's next Big Bad if I'm reading this correctly.
Ouch. Doc Manhattan creating DC?
DC at war with Alan Moore creations?
Ahhhhh, the meta of it...
So Doc Manhattan is now the in-universe reason why we've been so miserable the last five years. The mess made with the Titans, the Legion, Earth-2, the Outlaws, Superman using the term "friendzone" in utter sincerity, "Truth," losing Oracle, Martian Manhunter no longer being a founding JLA member, WW is Zeus' daughter, it's all his fault.
So I now have to stop holding it against Barry Allen for the destruction of the DCU and the creation of this... thing our characters have become.
I'm still not watching Flash though.
So Doc Manhattan is now the in-universe reason why we've been so miserable the last five years. The mess made with the Titans, the Legion, Earth-2, the Outlaws, Superman using the term "friendzone" in utter sincerity, "Truth," losing Oracle, Martian Manhunter no longer being a founding JLA member, WW is Zeus' daughter, it's all his fault.
Stay tuned for the FINAL REVEAL, where we learn that Dr. Manhattan's true identity is actually...
Dan Didio!
THEY'RE BOTH BALD
EVERYTHING FITS
Nah. I doubt that Didio has male genitalia....
(not to imply that he has female stuff either)
It'll be changed to being Hawk's fault in a last minute panic :-)
Their need to constantly pin their creative messes on something fictional says a lot about them.
That Johnny Quest book has my interst piqued. It feels more in the spirit of the show than the Scooby Doo book.
Yeah, JQ meets the other HB Sci-Fi properties has some potential.
I read the first issue, and...it's actually quite a promising start. I'll keep reading it unless/until it goes downhill.
Guys, I have an idea on how we can make DC stop sucking.
Why don't we just PUSH the DC Comics offices... into the ocean.
Guys, I have an idea on how we can make DC stop sucking.
Why don't we just PUSH the DC Comics offices... into the ocean.
Why pollute the ocean too?
We are now on the countdown to Rebirth...
Does Thursday become Afterbirth?
^^Andy, LOL
We are now on the countdown to Rebirth...
Does Thursday become Afterbirth?
Makes sense, since their editorial policy over the past few years seems to have been "throw out the baby and keep the afterbirth" whenever possible.
We are now on the countdown to Rebirth...
Does Thursday become Afterbirth?
Makes sense, since their editorial policy over the past few years seems to have been "throw out the baby and keep the afterbirth" whenever possible.
Squee! Hermit just quoted Julian Cope!
So did anyone try the Rebirth issues which came out this week?
Nah, bar the sneak peeks a while back I've not seen anything DC for years now.
EDIT: No, I fib. I bought the JLD & Legion Convergence books.
I picked up the Green Lanterns one.
I was relatively pleased with the DC Rebirth book - it had very little plot and was basically an 80 page teaser with lovely art for $2.99 - the cheapest DC book I've seen in ages (for the pages).
The Green Lanterns book was odd. I wasn't familiar with the two GLs at the center of the book because I haven't picked up comic books regularly from Marvel or DC in ages. I didn't get the characterizations - one seemed insecure and unsure, the other was an ass. On first glance, I did enjoy the diversity of the cast, but there wasn't a lot of context.
I did like the big adventure that was revealed - it was definitely a surprising take on the GL mythology.
Was it an amazing book? No
It was enjoyable.
I nearly picked up the Batman book for Duke Thomas (who I thought kicked butt in We Are Robin). But I didn't want to fall back into the trap of picking up a book for a character when I don't trust the creators. (I only do that for Legion and Titans)
I thought the Rebirth special was decent as a typical Johns set up issue. Lots of ideas, lots of hints, lots of teases. As usual, the trepidation is with the follow through. Also unhappy with the Watchmen reveal.
Even setting aside the thumb in the eye to Alan Moore, the DC vs. Watchmen as "hope vs. nihilism" that's being set up in the book, and further espoused by Johns in interviews, belies a very superficial reading of Watchmen.
Yes, the book is dark and there is a valid reading of it being nihilistic, but Jon himself does not embody those characteristics, especially by the end of the book, when he's opened himself up to the "thermodynamic miracles" that make up human lives. To have him be the villain that's representative of "Corruption", "Doubt", "Cruelty", etc. that Pandora uses to describe him is a not just a disservice to the book, it's a fundamental misunderstanding of what it's about.
I'm not a Watchmen fan. I tried reading the graphic novel and I could only get halfway through. That book just dragged, in my opinion, and was more of a chore to read than I cared for.
As best to my understanding, Watchmen did have that effect on the comics industry, didn't it? Even though that's considered a superficial interpretation on Watchmen, it's still what happened. People looked at it as "How comics should be done" at face value and it set the tone for mainstream comics for decades.
I mean, let's be honest. We all know Doctor Manhattan had nothing to do with wrecking the DCU. It was Geoff Johns. Whenever something stupid happens in comics, it's always because of the writers and editors. Johns is espousing about "hope vs nihilism" but we all know he doesn't believe what he's saying any more than every other writer and editor believes the crap that comes out of their mouths on a regular basis. He's covering his ass because he screwed up more than anyone (besides Dan Didio) in creating the DCnU. He literally wrote the book that made it happen. He just wants people to stop blaming him, so he picks a convenient scapegoat.
He did the same thing with Hal Jordan, Superboy Prime and Alexander Luthor Jr.. In his comics no one ever really learns from their mistakes because they're given a half-assed excuse for why it's not their fault.
So, to me at least, if Johns is gonna pin the blame on somebody to save his own ass, I'm not complaining if he's picking Watchmen. It doesn't make him any less culpable for making this mess in the first place, but I'm willing to wait if he's going to make an attempt at fixing what he broke.
Well said, Sarky. I agree 100% with you regarding Johns. DiDio may have egged him on, but in the end it was always Johns who pulled the trigger.
Really, as much as I think Johns and EVERY writer and editor who works for not just DC but Marvel, is capable of crapping out of their mouths, I do feel a sense of optimism for where this story is going. I haven't really felt that way since Convergence. Hell, I was on the verge of crying during the sequence when Barry saves Wally, and I HATE Barry Allen.
And despite what Pandora says and what happens to her, I get the feeling Manhattan doesn't really understand that what he did was wrong.
Hell, I was on the verge of crying during the sequence when Barry saves Wally, and I HATE Barry Allen.
I thought it was just me. I also dislike Barry - he was better as a dead inspiration than he was alive (IMO).
As for your other point, Sarky - the idea that Johns is using Doc Manhattan as a way of casting his own fault into a character is interesting. Then the meta question is not so much DCU vs. Moore/Lloyd Watchmen BUT DCFU realizing it's actually the Watchmen (as in anti-superhero comics) and needs to be salvaged/repaired.
Hmmm...
It's kind of retrograde to utilize Doc Manhattan in this way - it does demonstrate a startling lack of understanding of Watchmen.
Watchmen is recognizably a critique of superhero books, and a particular era of America (to be honest). Is there utility in mining this critique for the current state of the DCU? Maybe, but I don't have faith in their ability to do so effectively.
Of course, it could be a means of extending the publication of Watchmen TPB and thus keeping the ownership firmly in DC's hands. But that's just the cynic in me speaking.
... it had very little plot and was basically an 80 page teaser with lovely art for $2.99 - the cheapest DC book I've seen in ages (for the pages).
Oh, it was cheap. Well, in that case... actually no. I'll still pass.
... the DC vs. Watchmen as "hope vs. nihilism" that's being set up in the book, and further espoused by Johns in interviews, belies a very superficial reading of Watchmen.
Yeah. Sarky's right in that it's that aspect that was copied by nearly everyone else afterwards. Although you could argue The Dark Knight/ Miracleman/ more mature Indy books had parts to play too.
It's a shame, because it's not as though any of the themes in any of those books are difficult or hidden to any great depth (which is a compliment to them). So, there are all sorts of ideas that comics could have taken and run with. But dark, ultra violence seemed to sell.
From what I saw of DC Events leading up to things like Infinite Crisis/ Countdown/52 ad nauseam, there's a heck of a lot more optimism in Watchmen than in the DCU.
I know this: when I finished Watchman the first time, at age 12 or 13, I felt nothing but joy and satisfaction. And I still feel that when I reread it, which has been probably over a dozen times.
When I read the last issue of John's run on GL, which was akin to a circle jerk (with the reader in the middle), the only thing I felt like was possibly quitting my lifelong comics hobby.
As overrated as I find Watchmen (in a nutshell, I think it's cold, clinical, style-over-substance, and the climax is a mess) I think it's still better than anything Johns has ever written (and I did enjoy GL Rebirth, GLC Recharge, and the Sinestro Corps War at the time -- emphasis on AT THE TIME.)
I'll say this. No matter how I feel about Johns, Action Comics #864 forever remains one of my favorite Lightning Lad stories. Garth's shift in personality is one that's easily explainable to me, and his dislike of cops in that issue is FRIGHTENINGLY understandable given the amount of police killings in the last few years.
But all the deaths he's responsible for, the racism with his handling of the new Judomaster, the fact that his deliberate tanking on the quality of Teen Titans effectively ruined the book for a decade, that he decided to call the so-called entity of love THE PREDATOR, Johns is still being hypocritical because he did all of that years before he wrote Flashpoint. I have no idea what happened to the man who wrote Stars and STRIPE, but it's clear that man is dead.
Prediction: In a few years, the villain behind the next DC event designed to create a new positive status quo for the company will be Jordan Elliot!
Oh Eryk, in a few years the villain behind the next DC event designed to create a new positive status quo for the company will be moi.
This confirms my longheld theory that Sarcasm Lad is, in reality, the pre-Crisis Superman!
EDE, LOL
I just wish they'd throw continuity out the window and simply tell good stories without gore and/or creepiness.
It'll be changed to being Hawk's fault in a last minute panic :-)
Their need to constantly pin their creative messes on something fictional says a lot about them.
I'm trying to be optimistic, and compare this to the idiocy of Superboy-Prime punching reality.
Ah, that felt a bit better.
that he decided to call the so-called entity of love THE PREDATOR
The Predator was a pre-existing Green Lantern villain who was connected to Star Sapphire and Carol Ferris. Johns just sort of added the "Star Sapphires = Love Corps" aspect to the equation.
Oh I know all about that, but still, the Predator?
Not to mention he makes the love entity masculine in a supposedly all-female corps, after mentioning most men aren't capable of using a violet ring.
I know this: when I finished Watchman the first time, at age 12 or 13, I felt nothing but joy and satisfaction. And I still feel that when I reread it, which has been probably over a dozen times.
The ending of Watchmen made you joyful? Someone must have taken the last pages out of my copy.
I enjoyed it but can see the "style over substance" POV too. I've read it several times and still haven't finished that pirate story. Feels as if there were a million different ways to tell that part of the story, comes across to me as "tries to hard."
Ahhh more Rebirth today
I enjoyed the Detective Comics launch. Interesting cast. The art is effective IMO. Batwoman looks fantastic in costume and out. The tension between Batwoman and Batman is just starting - and it's a nice spark. There was a touching scene with a villain. Good set up of a big baddie. Well worth the $2.99 admission.
Aquaman was ... ok. I wanted more of the supporting cast, but I guess that's always my problem with Aquaman - I'm more interested in Garth and Mera and now Jackson (and whichever Aquagirls are around).
Can't bring myself to pick up Flash or Action.
Wonder Woman looks promising, and Action Comics looks like it's offering a lot more than the solicits had us believe.
I'm pretty sure that first WW issue is the equivalent of Greg Rucka going up to Brian Azzarello and Meredith Finch and swatting them with a rolled up newspaper going "No! NO! That is a BAD Wonder Woman characterization. Bad!"
Proof that the DC 'Rebirth' will continue to be no better than the 'New 52':
...aaand the dumbness continues.
So... the new Detective Comics came out ... and I still really like it
The art is fantastic and the tension between Batman/Batwoman and Batman/Tim Drake is great
Also, the writer nailed the Stephanie/Cassie/Tim dynamics
As for Clayface... this is such a throwback to the Gotham Adventures cartoon - just in terms of spirit and style .. nice to see
Proof that the DC 'Rebirth' will continue to be no better than the 'New 52':
...aaand the dumbness continues.
I read the latest Action Comics and it's actually not horrible. There's obviously a mystery as to why Doomsday and "New" Clark are there and where they came from. Proof will be in the pudding as to the resolution. It was kind of funny to see Lex frustrated that after Superman is finally killed, there's suddenly both a Superman and Clark Kent running around ruining what would have been his triumphant rise as a "hero".
So, thus far, I have to say I'm really enjoying Batman, Detective Comics and the Flash. I'm delighted (and surprised) to have enjoyed them all as much as I have.
I hope to try out the others soon too.
Could this perhaps finally break this "comic book reading depression" I've been in? I hope so.
Adding a few more thoughts: I really enjoyed Green Arrow and Aquaman too (well, for Aquaman, the #1 more than the Rebirth special).
It appears DC is seriously working hard to try and tell good, solid stories again. They're taking their time, introducing characters, combining action and characterization well, having each issue work on its own. So I guess the best thing thus far is a shift in storytelling techniques--back to a better style reminiscent of an earlier era.
I also liked Superman and Action Comics but am still trying to figure out how I feel about the whole complicated status quo.
For about 12 or so weeks I've had trouble finding the enthusiasm to even open a comic up, something that's never happened to me before. These issues thus far have felt good to read. I'm not asking for another V for Vendetta, just something to entertain me and give me some joy. So far, it's working.
Cobie, is there any gore and/or sensationalism in any of the DCR books you've read so far?
I'm feeling the same as Cobie - Titans, Aquaman, Wonder Woman and Detective have all been enjoyable (and fairly gore-less - even celebratory in some ways)
(Also, I pretty much stopped reading anything but Midnighter, Astro City and Grayson)
The Green Lanterns book is hard for me to get a handle on because I don't know these characters at all. And the creative team is assuming the reader knows them.
I haven't tried GA or Flash - the DCFU really soured me on those characters.
Batman I am tempted to pick up just for Duke.
Thanks, Andy.
I'm giving Titans, Aquaman, and Wonder Woman a hard pass because they're all written by writers I don't like.
Is anyone other that me planning to try Phil Jimenez & Emanuela Lupacchino's Superwoman next month?
So far I can't bring myself to pick up any Rebirth books despite all of the positive buzz. In fact, I'm pretty sure I will not, but I'm very open to getting some of the eventual trades.
I've particularly been keeping my eye on the Green Arrow reviews. When done right, I have a hard time turning down either Hawkeye or Green Arrow books. Both characters have a certain rogue underdog appeal that's hard for me to resist.
Cobie, and anyone else, I'd appreciate more detailed thoughts about all the books you are enjoying when you have time, so I can eventually make a well-informed decision on the trades.
Thanks, Andy.
I'm giving Titans, Aquaman, and Wonder Woman a hard pass because they're all written by writers I don't like.
Yeah I had similar trepidation. As it is, I picked up the first books just to see.
Aquaman #1 is better than Aquaman Rebirth
Wonder Woman I'm playing by ear (I get REALLY annoyed at Diana, Goddess of War stuff)
As it is, I'm still giving them 2-3 issues each
Is anyone other that me planning to try Phil Jimenez & Emanuela Lupacchino's Superwoman next month?
HECK YEAH!!!!
I met Phil at a conference last year. We had a nice lunch. I'm now totally committed to supporting his work
Plus I totally want to see where he goes with it. One of his best WW stories was IMO the interview with Lois
Agreed about the Lois/WW issue!
I'm glad you got to meet Phil, he seems like a cool guy.
Any person who is fond of quoting Jane Badler's villainess character in "V" is all right with me.
Fanfie, no gratuitous gore or ultra violence / sensationalism in any of the series yet. In fact, until you asked, I hadn't even realized it. So that is very nice!
I also read Wonder Woman, which was okay. It appears Rucka is spending a lot of time undoing the last series and as I'd rather not think about the last few years, I wasn't overly invested in the issue.
In a similar vein, Green Lanterns, starring Simon Baz and Jessica Cruz, was pretty good but like Andy, I don't know these characters and am still finding a reason to want to connect. But it was good enough for me to continue to try.
I can say that so far, there hasn't been a single bad issue to start which is shocking. But it's early days yet so I'll wait and see.
I'll probably also get Superwoman #1 for that awesome creative team.
Lardy, I don't have a ton of time to give big reviews but what I'd say is so far the various series are spending a lot of time (a) focusing on the characterization of the leads and their supporting casts and (b) trying to tell a good story--either a single issue story or part of a larger one--that isn't focused on any larger DC event (other than Titans).
I think you'd probably dig Green Arrow so far. There is a clear attempt to reconcile the classic Oliver Queen with the Arrow tv show and the fact that he's younger now. The best part has been the dynamic with Dinah, giving the two of them scenes together that are really great--amd I can't remember the last time I enjoyed Ollie and Dinah together on-panel. But these things are not the entire series; there is an interesting human trafficking plot going on as well that is scary and mysterious, while not sensational--very much in the mode of 90's comics.
Detective Comics is so good. I'm quite shocked.
Super-Man is an interesting idea but uneven in execution.
Wonder Woman brought me into the Paradise Island days in a charming way. And Nicola Scott's art is great - Steve Trevor is hot.
I think I'm done with Aquaman ... gave it a couple issues but meh... I'm only picking up Aquaman and Batman for their younger heroes (Jackson and Duke, respectively).
I'm honestly thinking of giving Batman a try again. I found Scott Snyder's stuff to be largely overrated save for a couple of things here and there, but I'm curious about "Gotham" and "Gotham Girl." And I found myself more intrigued with Duke Thomas here than I was in We Are Robin, if I can be honest.
New Super-Man's got me interested, and I'm hoping the writer has got more room to work on this than with that stupid "Truth" storyline.
July reactions so far (last two weeks worth).
- Batman was excellent again. So was Detective Comics. The art, the stories, the overall pacing and characterization: just excellent.
- still really enjoying the hell out of Green Arrow. A lot of these elements we've seen before, but I'm liking the overall execution and I'm liking all the character beats.
- Wonder Woman #2, which is the first Nicola Scott issue, was phenomenal.
- Flash #2 was good but the art is a little scratchy for my tastes. Still, the story is strong and feels like a Mark Waid-ish "Silver Age tale told in modern sensibilities". Which is a good thing.
- I'm actually liking Aquaman. This issue was mostly about Aquaman and Black Manta, but that's a dynamic I like. Overall it's been a fun superhero series so far even if this issue in particular was more action over substance.
- The Justice League Rebirth special was pretty good. It's still a little hard for me to get used to this League, and the different GLs and Superman continuity confuses things more, but it was actually a solid issue. It's counter intuitive, but I liked Bryan Hitch's writing here, while not really enjoying his scratchy art and the murky colors. But I haven't really loved Hitch's stuff since Ultimates.
So 7 in and no real complaints on any of them. The rest to come shortly.
Rounding out my reactions to the first two weeks of Rebirth titles:
- Superman #2 was terrific. Pete Tomasi has always been a good writer and he is especially good in exploring the father / son dynamic, as he does here.
- Action Comics was also pretty good. It's a bit too action-heavy but the general Superman & Luthor versus Doomsday action isn't bad. And as I start to get my bearings now on the current status of the Superman universe, I'm becoming interested in what is in store for "Clark", Jimmy and the Daily Planet.
- New Super-Man, featuring a new Chinese teenager who gains the power of Superman, was "okay". Of all of them so far, this probably fell the flatest, though I'm up for giving it another issue. There is a good set-up so far, but it's hard for me to see how this could stand up on its own without the overt Superman connections.
- Green Lanterns, featuring Jessica and Simon was still pretty good. This issue served to really introduce Jessica in full while it moved towards the larger Red Lanterns plot, and that worked for me, as I actually finally started to get some semblance of who she was. Not much more happened in the issue that that, but I guess that's still pretty good.
- Hal Jordan & the Green Lanterns Corp Rebirth special was good, and with excellent Van Scrier artwork, but it was for the most part an introductory issue to Hal and the larger GLC mythos. Kind of a "here is where the mythos is right now", which was useful in a way but unnecessary for me.
- Nightwing Rebirth was in the same vein, in that it essentially acts as bridge from them great Grayson series to the new Nightwing series as Dick reestablishes his identity. Here, though, I just really enjoyed it and that is because I enjoyed the Grayson series myself and understood all the references. I have high hopes for Nightwing and if this special did anything, it showed the creators appear to have Dick figured out pretty well.
So all in all, still pretty good! Some are great (Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, etc.), some are "not bad / pretty good" category (Green Lanterns) and only (1) felt more mundane that anything, which was New Super-Man, which I'm prepared to give another issue tryout too.
I'm admittingly shocked that I'm enjoying things so far.
One of the things Lardy has talked a lot about on LW is how modern comics have lost a lot of the old comic book story telling sensibilities. Well, one of the things I really like about DC Rebirth so far has been the excellent usage of captions! I've noticed it across numerous titles: Batman, Green Arrow, etc., and they have been used exactly as they should be: to give added meaning to what the reader is seeing on the page, and when needed, to give insight into a particular character's thoughts (usually the lead). It also allows the comic to be a more engaging experience rather than a 90 second "cinematic experience" or whatever crap was being passed off as comics over the last 15 years.
I hope this is an industry trend from here on out.
Agreed, Cobie. It brings the trades closer to being TRUE graphic novels.
So far the Rebirth stuff continues to be good.
I picked up Suicide Squad because the new writer acknowledged how the series had gone a little left in the New 52 (I'm a huge Ostrander Suicide Squad fan and never picked up the book during the 52). The tension between Waller and Obama was great, the writing was smooth, and the introduction of the Squad was tight (albeit dizzying).
Nightwing - yay!
Batman - I feel like I missed an issue. The Gothams demonstrate how dangerous superpowered beings are - an apt issue in the Bat universe. Duke has a good moment, but I want more.
Green Lanterns - I'm finally getting into Simon and Jessica. I'm learning more about them. The writer has used the action well to reveal their characters. Simon is finally not acting like Guy Gardner's mean little brother. His family is great.
Justice League - I like the Batman/Superman dynamic, touched briefly in this issue. The art was great and moved along. Jessica looks Asian though (which was distracting). Watching Barry in the Justice League makes me fond for my memories of Wally in the JLA.
Still haven't found my way to Green Arrow or Flash. And I dropped Aquaman.
Despite not caring about Deathstroke in years, I've found myself having high hopes for the new series because it's the first new Christopher Priest series in an age. And I'm happy to say I was not let down. There's all kinds of badassery, action and uber-assassin stuff for those who need it (and let's face it, it's a Deathstroke comic), but already Priest is injecting the series with some heavy commentary on family, being a parent and--I hope--making amends. It's a bit too early to say, but I see a lot of potential here and I hope Priest takes us there. And in the typical unusual and interesting way he does that sort of thing. The art by Carlo Pagulayan and Jason Paz is excellent too, and makes the action sequences dynamic and edge of your seat quality.
Slade Wilson is a thoroughly unlikable son of a bitch. But Priest has me interested in where he's going, and if I'll end up liking him after all.
I picked up Suicide Squad because the new writer acknowledged how the series had gone a little left in the New 52 (I'm a huge Ostrander Suicide Squad fan and never picked up the book during the 52). The tension between Waller and Obama was great, the writing was smooth, and the introduction of the Squad was tight (albeit dizzying).
I also liked it a lot too. I've tried out every version of the Squad DC has given us since the original one was cancelled all those years ago, and this one felt the closest to the originals tone & theme, albeit in a style of its own. The Waller / POTUS scenes were solid and the ultimate ending, with decisions by Flagg and the Squad was classic Ostrander Squad.
"Dizzying" is a good word but it works nicely, and starting small with a just a few characters was probably a good mood. The art is kinetic and full of bright colors, which is much different than the old SS, but it works here.
All in all, I liked it! Even Boomer's dialogue felt right.
So my Dad is reading comics on a regular basis for the first time in 20 years thanks to DC Rebirth. If for nothing else, I'll always be thankful for this!
His absolute favorites are All-Star Batman and Wonder Woman so far, but he also loves most of the Batman and Superman titles too, and really likes Aquaman. But for the most part, he likes just about all of them. So much so, that he's convinced me that we are going to sample every single one that comes out, even the ones that I normally wouldn't even try.
We've done just that, so here are a few of my impressions:
Harley Quinn - while I love Harley from teh Animated Series when I was a kid, I've never bought a Harley comic before. The best way I can describe it is to use the phrase my Dad did: "female Lobo". It's really just like that, but with added sex appeal that is constantly (though sometimes subtly) played up. I really can't recommend this to anyone unless they are looking for something totally off the wall and fun along the lines of Deadpool or Lobo.
Hellblazer - I've never been a steady Constantine collector, especially given the last few years of series. But we gave this a shot and I was pleasantly surprised to see Moritat, an artist I loved on the Spirit, providing the artwork. Not only did his art not let me down, but I actually liked the entire thing so far: tight writing, with a a pretty good usage of Constantine. The series, though firmly set in the DCU and firmly not 'mature readers', still feels a lot like the old Hellblazer series. I like the usage of Swamp Thing thus far, and I'm interested. We're going to keep buying.
Red Hood and the Outlaws - this one I was prepared to hate and I actually tried to get my Dad to skip it. But you know...eff me, I kind of liked it. The story was pretty solid with a lot of drama and action, and the build up to the final splash page worked, and felt like classic comic book superhero action. It featured a lot of Jason and Damien Wayne, two characters that a few years ago I couldn't stand, but here I kind of liked their interaction. While I'm sure my genuine goodwill and positive feelings towards superhero comics in general these days helped matters, I'm still surprised that I liked this series enough to keep getting it.
Meanwhile, we wouldn't wait to pick up Blue Beetle since Ted Kord is one of my Dad's favorites. I thought overall it was a pretty good issue, even though Giffen loves to write stories in such a way that you never quite know exactly what the hell is going on. The Giffen / Kollins pairing is not my favorite, and there was far too many talking heads in the first quarter of the issue, but overall it was a fun story, and I loved seeing Ted Kord working with Jamie. I also like Jamie's supporting cast. There is plenty of room for improvement but it was good enough to keep getting. Now if only they can change the current BB costume which is just terrible.
BTW, my Dad is 63 years old and I'm 35 to give you some idea of where we both are on the spectrum. I typed the word "Dad" so many times right there that I felt like I was 13 again.
Despite not caring about Deathstroke in years, I've found myself having high hopes for the new series because it's the first new Christopher Priest series in an age. And I'm happy to say I was not let down. There's all kinds of badassery, action and uber-assassin stuff for those who need it (and let's face it, it's a Deathstroke comic), but already Priest is injecting the series with some heavy commentary on family, being a parent and--I hope--making amends. It's a bit too early to say, but I see a lot of potential here and I hope Priest takes us there. And in the typical unusual and interesting way he does that sort of thing. The art by Carlo Pagulayan and Jason Paz is excellent too, and makes the action sequences dynamic and edge of your seat quality.
Slade Wilson is a thoroughly unlikable son of a bitch. But Priest has me interested in where he's going, and if I'll end up liking him after all.
I've had a copy of "Deathstroke: Rebirth" laying around unread since the week it was released. And that was, what, a month ago? Now, I think Priest is an awesome person -- a fine writer, an underappreciated editor (Little Known Fact: Priest gave Peter David his first comic-book writing break because Priest always remembered that before his promotion from Marvel staffer to Marvel editor, the only two people at Marvel who had given Priest the time of day were his mentor, Larry Hama, and his fellow lowly Marvel staffer, Peter David) and a vivid character worthy of being the subject of a book.
But...I kinda wish Priest was working on a less difficult, less morally ambiguous character than Deathstroke. To me, the idea of reading a Deathstroke solo book is like eating a meal that's too heavily spiced (and I should add that I never read any of the previous Deathstroke solo books.)
Who knows? Maybe this Deathstroke book will open doors for Priest to do something more to my liking in the not-too-distant-future. And I am open to the possibility of borrowing the first Priest Deathstroke trade from the library when it comes out.
I typed the word "Dad" so many times right there that I felt like I was 13 again.
Keep posting reviews or you're grounded young man!
Having your dad read comics again is great Cobie. Especially in such volume too. I'm looking forward to hearing more about the other titles.
I got to read all of the DCNu titles when they came out and I don't think any lasted the year. A few were OK, but not enough to keep my interest. That, and not really rating any of the sneak peeks has put me off.
So, I'll be really keen to see which ones you both keep going with. The only ones I'm even aware of are the Jimenez Superwoman and Levitz still on Dr Fate.
Really good post on the return of some storytelling to make the comic experience more engaging. Dropping things like Encyclopedia Galactica was put down to the availability of online information. But it lessened the immersion of the Legion for me. It certainly cut down on the reading time. Considering the price, that's a factor for me. I like to have the feeling I've read something, as opposed to skimming a brochure.
So my Dad is reading comics on a regular basis for the first time in 20 years thanks to DC Rebirth. If for nothing else, I'll always be thankful for this!
I'm delighted to hear this, Cobie. Happy reading to Papa Cobalt!
Harley Quinn - while I love Harley from teh Animated Series when I was a kid, I've never bought a Harley comic before. The best way I can describe it is to use the phrase my Dad did: "female Lobo". It's really just like that, but with added sex appeal that is constantly (though sometimes subtly) played up. I really can't recommend this to anyone unless they are looking for something totally off the wall and fun along the lines of Deadpool or Lobo.
I, too, was a fan of the animated Harley, but when I read the first volume collecting the Karl Kesel/Terry Dodson Harley solo book, it was obvious to me that she, like Deathstroke (see above,) is not cut out to be a solo act. The more a writer explores under the surface, the more disturbing in becomes. Obviously, hundreds of thousands of readers disagree with me, but even if they didn't, I'd still be avoiding the meaner, more violent Harley of recent years. I preferred her when she was child-like and not quite kill-happy.
Hellblazer - I've never been a steady Constantine collector, especially given the last few years of series. But we gave this a shot and I was pleasantly surprised to see Moritat, an artist I loved on the Spirit, providing the artwork. Not only did his art not let me down, but I actually liked the entire thing so far: tight writing, with a a pretty good usage of Constantine. The series, though firmly set in the DCU and firmly not 'mature readers', still feels a lot like the old Hellblazer series. I like the usage of Swamp Thing thus far, and I'm interested. We're going to keep buying.
I might wait on the trade to arrive at the library for this one, because about six-months-to-a-year from now, that beautifully packaged new series of trades collecting the original Hellblazer run is going to reach the Mike Carey era. And even though he overstayed his welcome by about 15 issues, his Hellblazer run up to issue #200 is my personal favorite run on that book. I cannot recommend highly enough the first 25 of so issues of the Carey Hellblazer, and I hope that you and Lardy and other casual Constantine fans, along with readers like FC, who is ambivalent about JC but has enjoyed some of the stories he has starred in, will all finally give the Mike Carey era a go when it becomes available again next year.
Meanwhile, we wouldn't wait to pick up Blue Beetle since Ted Kord is one of my Dad's favorites. I thought overall it was a pretty good issue, even though Giffen loves to write stories in such a way that you never quite know exactly what the hell is going on. The Giffen / Kollins pairing is not my favorite, and there was far too many talking heads in the first quarter of the issue, but overall it was a fun story, and I loved seeing Ted Kord working with Jamie. I also like Jamie's supporting cast. There is plenty of room for improvement but it was good enough to keep getting. Now if only they can change the current BB costume which is just terrible.
It breaks my heart to give this one a pass now that Ted Kord is back, but the creative team consists of my least favorite writer in the world, and an artist who is definitely in my Bottom Five. Sorry, Ted.
BTW, my Dad is 63 years old and I'm 35 to give you some idea of where we both are on the spectrum. I typed the word "Dad" so many times right there that I felt like I was 13 again.
That is so wonderfully heartwarming. Thanks for sharing, Cobie.
Actually FL, the art by Kolins is a LOT cleaner and less scratchy than it's been looking in the last couple of years.
AND, Giffen hasn't killed a Karate Kid! ...YET.
Sarky, I don't even like Kolins' fan-favorite work on the Flash. He's just not my cup of tea.
Pov, LOL. What I really want is for Giffen to go back to Marvel and kill Shooter's pet Marvel character, the Molecule Man.
I remain cautious about Deathstroke and Hellblazer. I keep on expecting them to suck, but I am enjoying them both. For the record, I am a big Hellblazer fan from the Vertigo days (even sat through those last 15 issues of Mike Carey - lol) BUT I hate the Nu52 stuff with him. I've never been a Deathstroke fan but I am a Priest fan.
So far, so good.
Nightwing and Detective remain stellar.
Blue Beetle was weird. I want to like it. But I find it "meh". Which in my current budget, does not bode well for a comic.
The Justice League book isn't terribly interesting. Another book I want to like, but...
Oh yeah, I am picking up the Titans but I'd like it to be better (written and drawn).
Blue Beetle was weird. I want to like it. But I find it "meh". Which in my current budget, does not bode well for a comic.
Drop it. Drop it. Drop. Drop. Drop.
Seriously, though, Giffen doesn't need that extra bottle of prune juice that his Blue Beetle royalties would have paid for.
Shooter's pet Marvel character, the Molecule Man.
...Sorry, I thought his pet character was wife beater Hank Pym...?
Uh...no, not anymore than Cosmic Boy was Shooter's pet Legion character. Shooter's pet Legion character was Karate Kid, that's why Giffen killed him.
Didn't Shooter once make a joke about how Cos is so uptight and so narcissistic, he shaves around his ears? Judging from that, it doesn't sound to me like he cared much for Cos. Maybe that's why Shooter had Cos do the unforgivable deed.
Some random Rebirth thoughts as I start reading the last two weeks comics (which were annoyingly light because of the DC skip week).
Batman #6 was one of the best comics of the year so far. The epilogue focusing on Gotham Girl, and Batman’s attempt to help her, was really moving. Tom King and Ivan Reis tell it wonderfully and in a way that was incredibly well done despite it not being a new idea. I also loved the brief roles Duke and Alfred played in it.
Superman #6 was also terrific and I loved the ending to the Eradicator storyline, which really served to fully introduce this Superman to the DCU and by extension the readers. The sequence with him on the moon, being viewed by the public with Earth and the American Flag in the background was cheer-worthy. The reappearance of Krypto, who I had worried about, was great. And all in all, everything about this comic so far has been great—it really feels like Superman, back to form. Regarding the ending:
This issue’s biggest moment, to me at least, was also the ending. Superman introduces his son to Batman and Wonder Woman for the first time as Superboy. To me, this was also a cheer-worthy moment and I loved it. I would never have thought three months ago I would care a bit about Jonathan Kent, but both Superman and Action Comics have made me love the character, and love how he interacts with both his parents. The idea of he being Superboy is very appealing to me. I especially love that he is so young, like Superboy was when he first appeared in the late 40’s. I’m pretty impressed because a few months ago, I could easily see myself brushing this off with little regard.
I actually really want the Super Sons comic with Superboy and Robin. I also would love if somehow DC could use this new Superboy with the Legion in a separate Adventure Comics title or something, which would also allow the LSH to have their own solo non-Super adventures in their own title.
Both Superman and Jon have been established by this arc. Lois, who kicked ass all arc, is who I hope gets the treatment next and hopefully has her own role in the DCU defined again.
Nightwing #5 was also fantastic and I loved the ending to this Court of Owls opening arc. The book accomplished what it needed to, in redefining for readers who Nightwing is in a way that feels genuine and true to the character, and also shows how he’s different from Batman. I really loved the interaction with Raptor and Nightwing, and I’m actually dying to find out what happens next with them and when they’ll meet. Raptor is clearly the breakout new character of Rebirth for me.
Green Arrow has now shifted gears after the opening arc to present a more detailed view of Emi Queen, Oliver’s mysterious half-sister. Since I wasn’t reading Green Arrow before Rebirth and only “kinda” follow the Arrow TV series, I’m not sure if she’s a new character or not, but I like what I see and I’m interested to learn more about her. The usage of Shado, an old favorite of mine, is well done, and the interplay between Emi and Shado is excellent.
And lastly, as my father and I continue to buy all the Rebirth titles, we picked up
Cybrog #1, which I really would have had no intention of buying without prompting from my Dad. And you know, it was great! It certainly helps that Paul Pelletier provided the artwork, as anything he touches over the last few years just looks amazing. But overall, the entire issue was awesome from start to finish. It felt like a high action, tech-based superhero story, with a multitude of unique trappings that make Cyborg stand out. I have always liked Vic, but over the decades he’s really fallen by the wayside as a compelling character IMO.
The creative team instantly focus on what made him so great originally, as established by Wolfman and Perez, by reintroducing his father, STAR Labs and his tragic history—both physically and family-wise. This drives the series and leads to an incredible moment at the end of the story which gives a potential “Anatomy Lesson Everything You Know is Wrong” moment—and smartly leaves it hanging so you are dying to know what comes next and what the truth is. This ties directly into Vic’s own insecurities and tragedy and makes him even more compelling.
There is a lot of promise to this series and I dare say it might give Cyborg the critical base he needs to be deserving of his primary role in the Justice League. I’m eager to stick with it and find out.
I'd be more upset about what happened to "Tim Drake" if it wasn't for the fact that he's not Tim Drake. That was just an alias he had to take on, right? Some witness protection nonsense? So for all intents and purposes the original Tim Drake is probably somewhere with his father and stepmother while everyone thinks that what's-his-name is dead.
I just hope they don't ignore Morrison's Multiversity in all this when they explain Dr Manhattan's involvement. It could be super interesting if this were all tied into that.
^^That's a good point, but, sadly, I don't think Johns has the creative scope to accommodate such a concept. I know that's a bit harsh, but I'm sticking to it (I'm still bitter about the money I wasted on "Infinite Crisis.") To his credit, Johns *does* seem to be proving himself a good "midwife" to the current crop of DC writers. Who knows, maybe he's finally realized his limitations as a writer and decided that his true talent lies in being a facilitator to other, better writers?
For concepts such as Multiversity, I believe that, for the foreseeable future at least, we're going to have to rely on the Young Animal imprint rather than the mainstream part of the DCU. Because for all their general back-to-basics solidity, the current mainstream DCU comics are not, in my view, particularly innovative. Not that I'm trying to take away any credit from Johns et al for finally moving the DCU beyond the sordid horrors of the DiDio reign (BTW, I also have this theory that DiDio is going to be quietly "let go" by Warners, with as little fanfare as possible, once his contract expires. Dare we entertain the notion that Warners has finally wised up to his toxic presence?)
^ (I'm still bitter about the money I wasted on "Infinite Crisis.")
Sniff, sniff. I too wasted that money.
I was young and stupid back then, and didn't know any better. Literally I was like 15.
I'm still stupid, but...
So clearly Cobie is trying to push Superman on us. I don't know how I feel about that ... I'm not particularly pro-Kryptonian (I mean, didn't one US president nominee promise to build a fence?)
I MIGHT pick up the TPB
Ok, Nightwing was so good. SOOOO good. I was really happy with this opening arc. It tied people together, was cleanly illustrated, and well written.
Detective. WOW WOW WOW. I loved how the issue moved and how certain issues were raised and resolved. I don't want to give away any spoilers but it was both emotionally moving and soundly resolved.
Super Woman. WOW WOW WOW. I love Phil's art but I think his writing is erratic. This issue is SO good, it's insane. The emotional connections, the action, the movement. It's a treat.
Birds of Prey. Ok, we're finally getting to some meat on the bone. I have been skeptical about this (not because of the creators - I'm unfamiliar with them) BUT this issue is a pay-off issue. There's a build towards it that is both well-executed and a delight in some places to read.
Super-Man. I get it. He's Chinese. He's kind of an ass. BUT the story is finally about his transformation. Do I think there's weak points? ABSOLUTELY. Do I think it's getting better? ABSOLUTELY.
Doom Patrol. Don't sleep. Pick it up and enjoy the rhythm
Wonder Woman. I'm not the biggest Rucka fan, but Scott's art is fantastic. WW has been a GREAT book to pick up. Delightful surprise.
Suicide Squad. Please leave, Jim Lee. Just go. The story is great.
Deathstroke. Ok. I hate the character and I LOVE this comic so far. WOW WOW WOW
Is that a theme?
Holy CRAP Nightwing's going back to Bludhaven.
Now I'm interested.
Trinty #1 was interesting. Manapual's art and design are fantastic. The story is light on action as the big three sit down to dinner and try to get to know each other better. It's a continuity heavy book as Francis does his best to reference events across all three heroes' respective books. He actually does a decent job, but I suspect he'll drive himself nuts if he's beholden to happenings in 6-7 other books all the time. Batman's still a bit of a guarded dick around Supes and Lois and Diana try and bond (getting past the awkwardness that Diana was in love with the previous Superman). The inciting action for the story really only gets started on the last page. Not sure if I'll continue with it, but it wasn't bad.
^Yeah, Manapual's art and design are just staggering to behold. Even when I wasn't reading his Flash series over the last few years, I would still look at the art inside and just be mesmerized.
I liked Trinity #1. It's an interesting dynamic to have the three of them together with this Superman, and the current Super Status-Quo. If it wasn't for Frances' storytelling, I probably wouldn't have enjoyed the issue as much but with him giving wonderful designs and a leisurely pacing, it felt just really pleasant. Did he do the colors too? (I checked and they aren't credited so I assume yes). The colors really popped as well.
DC Rebirth has finally slowed down.
Cyborg peaked early and hasn't been able to keep the same pace
Green Lanterns and Justice League have settled into a steady pace - one that I'm not sure I need to stay with
Neither Titans book does it for me.
I am losing interest in the Batman books too.
Detective and Nightwing are still bright points, as is Deathstroke (oddly enough - never been a fan and yet...). I like the Suicide Squad
I'm still keen on the Super-Books.
Suicide Squad is good, not great.
I've loved all of the Young Animal so far.
Reserving judgement on "Death of Hawkman" & "Trinity"
Picked up Batman this week to try it.
I'm still loving the main Super and Bat books even if this recent crossover has been a bit boring.
In fact, all the Bat books are pretty great so far: Tec, Barman, All-Star Batman, Batgirl and BOP have been really good. The only one that isn't really for me is Harley Quinn. Just can't get into it.
I love Superman, and Action has also been highly enjoyable. New Super-Man has been a surprise fun series, and I have enjoyed Superwoman #1-2 (but I assumed after the first issue that new Lois would stay dead, so no surprise there for me).
I'm also enjoying Green Arrow, Wonder Woman and Aquaman immensely. Each one is at the top of my pile each week.
I really like the story in Flash, but the artwork is too scratchy for me. A more colorful, classical superhero artist would really benefit the series.
I'm actually surprised by how much I'm liking Green Lanterns, and how much I'm starting to really like both Simon and Jessica. On the flip side, Hal and the GLC just doesn't have much substance thus far which is a shame since they have so many great characters (perhaps too many--that might be the problem).
Deathstroke has been great. Hellblazer also really enjoyable. Like Dave, I think there's a lot of room for improvement in Suicide Squad, but there's also still a lot to like.
Justice League is only okay so far. Not terrible but lacking a little oomph. I'm hoping Hitch moves on and another writer can take a stab.
I actually thought Cyborg has been surprisingly good! Admittingly, I had low expectations, but it feels very "80's superhero comics" to me, like it fits alongside Firestorm or Blue Devil.
Even Red Hood and the Outlaws has been surprisingly fun.
I'm about two weeks behind so I'm not caught up on the most recent stuff. Have not read the Young Animal stuff besides DP #1 yet, or Batman Beyond or Hawkman / Adam Strange. I also grabbed the Deadman miniseries because the artwork looks stellar but I haven't read it yet.
Still too early to tell on Supergirl. Same with Trinity, though the first issue was a really strong showing, especially art-wise.
Both Titans series are lacking, and I really wish Blue Beetle was better. Those are probably the three I'm most disappointed in (because I didn't expect much from Harley Quinn and therefore am not too surprised that it's not my cup of tea).
At the end of the day, I read every DC series first before all other comics save the Walking Dead and Saga. They've basically saved my enthusiasm for the medium! I'm stoked about Super-Sons as the Clark / Lois / Jon dynamic has been probably my favorite element of the entire Rebirth so far.
A quick addendum: I really enjoyed Batman Beyond #1 quite a bit! That's a series I've never collected, and am glad the strong overall Rebirth showing encouraged me to sample it.
So...this week sees the release of the first 2 Rebirth trades: Green Arrow and Superman. Should I get one or the other...or both? GA is probably the one I've been most anticipating...!
Well, if you're jonesing for Green Arrow, then I think you should definitely get it. I've enjoyed it immensely, and I think its only gotten even better over the last few issues.
Meanwhile, Superman is my favorite ongoing series in comics right now--more than anything else it just gives me the most joy in reading it. So I can't recommend it enough. The first trade should be good, but IIRC, I think it got *really good* after the first arc was finished and the next round of stories started. If I remember right, you were a big fan of Tomasi writing Dick-Batman and Damien-Robin, right? Then you should really like this as Tomasi continues to get better and better with age.
Okay, I ordered 'em AND the Lois & Clark collection that re-established pre-Flashpoint Kal-El that sets up the Rebirth status quo.
If these work out, I'll order even more Rebirth TPBs as they roll out. Speaking of which, what are some of the other best bets in terms of first Rebirth arcs?
I definitely recommend Batman and Detective, which were both fantastic. I also highly enjoyed Nightwing and think you'll like that too.
Wonder Woman (is that included?) was fantastic.
Flash had a really great story with great writing, but I personally had a tough time with the very scratchy and heavily inked artwork. I get the sense you would feel the same, knowing your tastes. So that one I really don't recommend until you check out some samples of the art.
I personally loved Aquaman though I know it has its detractors here. It's one of my favorite ongoing series, and it's also my father's current favorite comic (tied with perhaps Wonder Woman and All-Star Batman). BTW, I think I mentioned I've got my Dad back into reading comics with Rebirth, right? He is reading most of the whole relaunch, and he even started reading Thor and Dr. Strange too.
Deathstroke is really good too, but I can't remember if its part of this initial launch.
For Rebirth & Young Animal, I'm currently reading and liking:
Action
Superman
Suicide Squad
Trinity
Doom Patrol
Shade the Changing Girl
Cave Carson Has a Cybernetic Eye
I also am enjoying Action quite a lot. The initial storyline is more action than anything, which I guess is appropriate to the name of the series. But from there the series has really picked up nicely and gotten even better!
Others that I'm reading & liking that aren't part of that initial wave of TPB releases include:
Superwoman
New Super-Man
All-Star Batman (loving the art)
Batgirl (loving it and I think you will too, Lardy)
Batgirl & Birds of Prey (only issue is art needs to improve)
Batman Beyond
Trinity
Green Lanterns
Hal Jordan & GLC - finally picking up steam after a weak opening arc
Cyborg
Red Hood & the Outlaws
Hellblazer
Suicide Squad
Hawkman & Adam Strange mini
Deadman: Dark Mansion of Forbidden Love mini
Doom Patrol
Cave Carson
Still too early to tell but enjoyable thus far:
Supergirl
Blue Beetle - one of weakest opening issues but improving each issue
Shade the Changing Girl
Kind of weak but still okay:
Justice League
Titans
Teen Titans
Mother Panic
Not for me:
Harley Quinn
As you can see, I am enjoying just about all of the DC titles. Some are noticeably weaker than others but I'm still enjoying them enough to keep going (*cough* Justice League *cough*). I'm satisfied enough to have put on my Pull List the Odyssey of the Amazons mini, the Captain Atom mini, and of course the awesome Kamandi project they have coming.
The only real series in danger of cancellation right now is Mother Panic. I'm super-excited for Super-Sons more than anything else, and Batwoman has my boy Steve Epting on art. Plus I'm actually excited for the eventual Legion and JSA Rebirth launches.
I'm happy to elaborate on any of them!
Cobie (and Dave), thanks for your recommendations. I'll probably put many of these trades on my In-Stock Trades wish list as they are released (depending upon my interest in the characters). What will put me over the top on these will be continued positive reviews and comments. I hope you guys will also keep me informed if these titles start to slide in quality. Like most, I felt burned with the New 52 and am still a little gun-shy overall for this latest relaunch, so keep that in mind.
Right now, beyond GA and Superman, my radar is probably mostly on Action, Batman, Detective, Batgirl and possibly Flash and Wonder Woman. So more thoughts on those, when they strike you, will especially be welcomed. At this point, I think Young Animal is, well, a little young for me to think too much about.
Cobie, I know that you are aware of what my favorite Batman eras are. While I would never want today's creators to ape what those guys did, those runs are an excellent basis for storytelling that you can use to gauge my interest. If they in in away approach those standards, you'll know they're right for me.
I'm tentatively really psyched at the prospect of getting back into some new superhero comics again, especially since I currently buy zero monthlies that truly fit the bill. But looking forward to a steady stream of awesome superhero trades is exciting in itself. I honestly hope Rebirth ultimately lives up to its name!
Yeah, I have a good knowledge of your favorite Bat-eras and have used that to kind of judge how I think you'll feel about the current Batman series. Which, by the way, I think you'll really like.
Detective Comics and Nightwing, IMO, really fit into your storytelling sensibilities for those characters and the Bat-universe in general. Meanwhile, Batman has a different feel and tone, unlike any Batman run I've read, but it still feels very fresh and good.
All-Star Batman is more of a high octane ride with a lot of great art (and colors!) and a shit-ton of second and third tier Batman villains. Its not my favorite series but its one I'm enjoying immensely. For JR Jr. fans like myself its a must buy.
Meanwhile, based on your past comments about Batgirl and American Vampire, I feel that the current Batgirl relaunch is right up your alley as well. They nail Bab's character really well, and the artwork is simply phenomenal. It draws thematically and tonally from the recent Burnside era, Gail Simone era and prior Babs eras but it really stands on its own apart from all of those. And for that, I'm happy, as I'm ready to just let all the Barbara Gordon stories of the past be in the past and try to enjoy something new, different and good.
I think you'll enjoy all of these series. Also, for the first time in my life I'm collecting Batman Beyond and its also been really well done.
What DC is doing right now beyond just relaunching certain characters or series is changing the way they write stories. There is a sense that they are going back and remembering certain techniques that have been forgotten over the years. The pacing is better, the dialogue is better, their using narrative captions, their jettisoning the whole 'wide screen' crap that became popular, their mixing up story-lengths between large arcs and smaller arcs and they're finding a happy medium in tone between light & dark rather than pushing to one extreme or the other. They actually feel like super-hero comics again while also feeling fresh and modern.
What DC is doing right now beyond just relaunching certain characters or series is changing the way they write stories. There is a sense that they are going back and remembering certain techniques that have been forgotten over the years. The pacing is better, the dialogue is better, their using narrative captions, their jettisoning the whole 'wide screen' crap that became popular, their mixing up story-lengths between large arcs and smaller arcs and they're finding a happy medium in tone between light & dark rather than pushing to one extreme or the other. They actually feel like super-hero comics again while also feeling fresh and modern.
That sounds promising. Not that everything in times past was great, storytelling wise, but something seemed to go badly wrong along the way. I put a lot of it at the door of editorial, setting the tone, and the Event driven narratives. But once it's put in place, it becomes the norm, so it became more than just them.
A recent Name Three question was along the lines of "Name Three books you're looking forward to in 2017". I went Walking Dead, Stray Bullets and... I've kinda stopped... so I couldn't answer the question. So thanks for highlighting the DC books Cobie. Like Paladin, I'm gun shy about them, but the more good things I hear, the more likely I am to take a look.
They nail Bab's character really well... It draws thematically and tonally from ...prior Babs eras but it really stands on its own
/snip
It really helps that there's an immediate change in scenery and setting. Albuquerque handles heroics as deftly as he does horror, making this one of the better books out there. SO good.
Of the books mentioned, one not mentioned that I am enjoying is Red Hood and the Outlaws. Gone are Arsenal and Starfire, in are Artemis and Bizarro. The first arc which set up the team just finished. I am looking forward to the next arc and seeing where it goes.
^ I'm also enjoying it quite a bit which is a big surprise for me. The writing is very crisp, and thus far the characters have all been built up to be interesting with their various interactions producing some really good scenes.
I'm planning on getting the first trade collecting the Dark Trinity arc... I've heard nothing but good things about it from Conjure Lass.
Ok, I'm madly in love with Detective Comics and Batman. In ways that I haven't been for YEARS. In ways that I might go uber-fanboy to the creators at SDCC. The characters are developing nicely and the action is (mostly) on point.
Nightwing is still great. The quality on the writing has been good (IMO) from Grayson to now.
Green Lanterns has been a surprise. Jessica and Simon are each on a journey and I'm enjoying going with them.
I've had to reread Wonder Woman a lot because of the way the story arcs are alternating. I keep on forgetting what happened previously. Kind of annoying but overall this has been a solidly good book.
Midnighter and Apollo is not as fun as the most recent Midnighter run, but I'm still enjoying it.
Birds of Prey has been up and down (in my opinion) but there's definitely an interesting interaction between the three. It's worth sticking with.
Cyborg is a B/B+ for me. Enjoyable but not particularly compelling. Super-Man and Superwoman are the same for me.
Titans, Teen Titans, Justice League have all kind of been meh. These might be on the chopping block.
Young Animal is "too cool" for me. I picked up the first couple issues of each, but it's hard to follow. So I think that I'm going vegetarian.
I picked up the Green Arrow trade based on Cobie's recommendation. It. Is. Awesome. Ollie's voice comes through so clearly and it's exactly what I want out of it. Plus it's so pretty. The one flaw - Black Canary smacking him then kissing him. She's one of the top martial artists in DC so I think that DC should retire this trope. It just looks like abuse.
I've had to reread Wonder Woman a lot because of the way the story arcs are alternating. I keep on forgetting what happened previously. Kind of annoying but overall this has been a solidly good book.
Alternating? Do you mean that the issues illustrated by Nicola Scott and (iirc) Liam Sharpe are telling separate stories? If that's so, I'm curious as to what the "A" arc is about and what the "B" arc is about.
The A arc by Liam Sharp is about Diana trying to discern what's real and what's a lie she's been tricked into believing over the last few years, particularly concerning her home and the Gods.
The B arc by Nicola Scott is a Year One story working to reestablish her origin and involves Steve Trevor, Etta Candy, Barbara Ann Minerva, and Ares.
I picked up the Green Arrow trade based on Cobie's recommendation. It. Is. Awesome. Ollie's voice comes through so clearly and it's exactly what I want out of it. Plus it's so pretty. The one flaw - Black Canary smacking him then kissing him. She's one of the top martial artists in DC so I think that DC should retire this trope. It just looks like abuse.
Wow, glad I could get you to try it and it paid off! One of the things I really like about GA is it feels like the series is getting better and better, especially with the second 2-3 arcs. This includes the Ollie / Dinah relationship, which has really been just great—other than that one scene misstep, all the subsequent scenes have been spot-on.
Green Lanterns has been a surprise. Jessica and Simon are each on a journey and I'm enjoying going with them.
Totally agree. I had very low expectations for this series and I’ve been pleasantly surprised throughout. If the goal was to convert readers who didn’t know or care about Simon and Jessica into finding them compelling characters and wanting to root for them, then it is mission accomplished. In fact, I find their series better than the Hal & GLC series which has all the characters I already know and love.
I've had to reread Wonder Woman a lot because of the way the story arcs are alternating. I keep on forgetting what happened previously. Kind of annoying but overall this has been a solidly good book.
Alternating? Do you mean that the issues illustrated by Nicola Scott and (iirc) Liam Sharpe are telling separate stories? If that's so, I'm curious as to what the "A" arc is about and what the "B" arc is about.
The A arc by Liam Sharp is about Diana trying to discern what's real and what's a lie she's been tricked into believing over the last few years, particularly concerning her home and the Gods.
The B arc by Nicola Scott is a Year One story working to reestablish her origin and involves Steve Trevor, Etta Candy, Barbara Ann Minerva, and Ares.
Sarky summed it up pretty well. Though there are clearly connections between the two stories tonally and thematically, and both are telling two parts of the larger story, they could almost be read as entirely separate arcs. It works for me because Sharpe and Scott’s artwork has been nothing short of stunning, which seems to benefit from this schedule.
Both are fantastic too, by the way. I’m partial to the Year One story because I love Scott’s art so much, but I can’t say anything bad about the equally great Sharp storyline. Even the "current time" story's use of Rucka's pet favorites, Sasha Bordeaux and Veronica Cale, has been really good so far.
Justice League/Suicide Squad crossover?
I like that it's weekly.
This could be a little spoiler-y. Apologies in advance.
The main series is a little "by the numbers" and the main villains (not the Squad) seem wildly undercharacterized and underutilized. Rustam's turn to murderous psycho seems out of place (since he's established as a soldier following orders who disagreed with Waller in Suicide Squad). The others were taken out too easily IMO.
The Wonder Woman/Harley moments are immensely satisfying.
The Justice League and Suicide Squad books support the crossover well. They each shine a light on characters emerging in the main series.
The JLA Rebirth issues have both been good so far. The origin story of Ryan Choi had some great touches, tightly written and drawn. The Vixen story had some throwaway moments (I'm still not sure why they want Mari to be some social media entrepreneur model brand - it's a little too America's Next Top Model for me), but the overall story was good. I liked seeing her moments with her dad.
While I appreciate a good twist, the build-up of the villains only to have them dismissed rather quickly in favour of the developments at the end of issue #4 was a little clunky for me.
I'll reserve judgement on how this plays out, but we've seen similar before (and recently in Batman, I believe).
^keeping that going (so Spoilers may or may not follow)...
I'm enjoying the crossover quite a bit! Honestly, I didn't expect much and this has certainly exceeded my expectations. It is greatly helped by the art, which has been really good, particularly the first issue drawn by Jason Fabook. It has a very high-octane, action heavy blockbuster feel--and honestly in a series with VERSUS in the title, it should--and in that sense its actually a real lot of fun.
I also like that its weekly, which enhances the action heaviness. If it was monthly, I could see myself growing bored.
There's been some really nice interactions thus far as Andy says. The aforementioned WW / HQ is great, and I also really liked the Flash / Captain Boomerang stuff and especially the Superman / Killer Frost sequence in #3, which was the best so far IMO.
In fact, Killer Frost has been done really well in a way that is satisfying to the parts of me that love her from the old Firestorm series and the parts of me that love Caitlin Snow in the Flash TV show.
I have not read #4 yet, so I can't say much about the villains so far, but I do love the build-up of them all, particularly Max Lord. It's a really interesting group of villains with each character being one I'm really interested in seeing about going forward.
Meanwhile, I absolutely loved the Atom #1, and its probably the best Ryan Choi story done so far (not there have been a ton). I love the Ryan / Ray relationship and feel it does both characters justice. By making their mentor / apprentice relationship the center of the issue, I was hooked.
I haven't read Vixen yet but if its by Steve Orlando, who did the Atom story, I have high hopes.
The JLA Max story was pretty good. DC's litany of secret agencies can be a bit much sometimes but this was handled well by focusing it mostly on Max and Amanda.
All in all, while isn't the event I would go running around raving about to get people to buy comics, it's certainly been one that I've liked so far, and am very entertained by. Plus that Atom special was fantastic.
If you liked Boomerang/Flash interaction to this point, you'll really like the next issue, as they get a lot of screen time together.
Flash had a really great story with great writing, but I personally had a tough time with the very scratchy and heavily inked artwork. I get the sense you would feel the same, knowing your tastes. So that one I really don't recommend until you check out some samples of the art.
Is
this a good example of the artwork currently on the Flash? If so, I think it looks alright. If the story is first rate, as you imply, I may put this in next week's trade order (headlined by the John Byrne/Alpha Flight Omnibus, btw), along with the first Batman Rebirth trade.
I personally loved Aquaman though I know it has its detractors here. It's one of my favorite ongoing series, and it's also my father's current favorite comic (tied with perhaps Wonder Woman and All-Star Batman).
I'm curious as to why it has it's detractors. Can you give me an idea of why you and your dad enjoy it so much and why some people don't?
Deathstroke is really good too, but I can't remember if its part of this initial launch.
I'm hearing lots of good things about this! Sounds like Priest is BACK!
JL vs. Suicide Squad wraps up with different storylines teased through the resolution. Killer Frost gets redeemed, bringing her more in line with her TV counterpart and Batman takes her and Lobo to start his own "proactive" JLA (How many times has this been tried?)
I found the wrap-up a little too easy, and wasn't sold on Batman's sudden approval of the Squad. I also felt the consequences of the whole thing were swept under the rug a little (This is a complaint about most comic events of the last decade or more - in trying to up the stakes, writers up the civilian body count, to the point where mass destruction becomes pedestrian and meaningless).
Flash had a really great story with great writing, but I personally had a tough time with the very scratchy and heavily inked artwork. I get the sense you would feel the same, knowing your tastes. So that one I really don't recommend until you check out some samples of the art.
Is
this a good example of the artwork currently on the Flash? If so, I think it looks alright. If the story is first rate, as you imply, I may put this in next week's trade order (headlined by the John Byrne/Alpha Flight Omnibus, btw), along with the first Batman Rebirth trade.
Yup, that’s the art, and if it doesn’t bother you at all, then I think you’ll really like the story. It really is a bit of a modern twist on the type of classic Flash type story you’d see in the original Barry Allen run (whether Silver, Bronze or early 80’s).
I personally loved Aquaman though I know it has its detractors here. It's one of my favorite ongoing series, and it's also my father's current favorite comic (tied with perhaps Wonder Woman and All-Star Batman).
I'm curious as to why it has it's detractors. Can you give me an idea of why you and your dad enjoy it so much and why some people don't?
Because THEY SUCK! Just kidding, I love all Legion Worlders
I really am not sure why its not connecting with some people because there are just SO many reasons why I like the series so much. And I know them all off-hand because I’ve actually talked about with my Dad again and again. It includes: the Aquaman / Mera relationship is nothing short of fantastic and does them both justice really well while also being romantic and engaging; the supporting cast is huge and incredibly well done; the political overtones are there but constantly balanced by character and action so as not to be too overbearing; the artwork and coloring is fantastic; the relationship with Superman and the JLA is both full of tension and respect; the villains being used are done really well including the awesome Black Manta. I could go on, but overall its just a really high quality series IMO.
I’ll comment on Deathstroke in that thread, which I just noticed.
Well, I did order the Flash Rebirth TPB, along with the Batman and Detective Rebirths, as part of my IST order that is headlined by the Alpha Flight by John Byrne Omnibus. I also got a good bargain on the Aquaman trade on eBay for a secondhand copy. Looking forward to reading them all eventually!
Kamandi Challenge was a lot of fun and I think it will be a good series. Unlike the messier (but still fun) "DC Challenge" of old, these stories will be limited to Kamandi's world and characters with some fun cliffhangers. The first issue sets up a mystery with the 1st and 2nd teams doing a new but pretty faithful rehash of Kamandi's origin, then jumping right into the action in the Tiger Kingdom. Looking forward to the rest.
I finally, just a couple of days ago, read the Rebirth one-shot that kicked everything off. While you can argue that it was very much the primer it was meant to be for what was to come in the Rebirth launch, I'll admit I cried real tears reading the scenes with Wally and Barry. Even though I knew it was coming, having had most of the comic spoiled for me when it first came out, the reunion was really beautiful and felt true to their history. That moment when Wally is dissipating but is still so thankful for everything he had--and then Barry remembers him and saves him.....
Beautiful stuff, Geoff Johns! I hope when you return, there is much more of this kind of thing and much less dismemberment and horror!
Seems like eons since a DC book made me feel like that....
I haven't cried like that since Titanic. <wipes tears with a stack of Benjamins>
If John returns to Flash, I hope we get some Rogues comics too. He really knows how to write bad guys.
Yeah, it was an amazing way to start the new era, and I was delighted to know Geoff still had it in him. I'd like to think this current direction of heart & substance over shock comes from Geoff on down, and he has learned some lessons. If that's the case, I look forward to his eventual return.
The issue itself surprised me and turned me towards the path of buying in wholeheartedly to Rebirth. The series themselves got me there.
Man, that scene.
Um...sorry to be the voice of dissention yet again, but by this point I'm pretty much over any enthusiasm and optimism I'd had earlier for the Rebirth.
Now, I have not read the Rebirth Special, so all I can say is, and please don't anyone take what follows as an attack on their personal tastes or anything like that, but I find myself incapable of giving Johns the benefit of the doubt and reading it, or anything he might write in the months to come. Not reluctant, but actually *incapable.*
My favorite DC eras where when they were a brighter, shinier, classier, more cheerful alternative to Marvel and/or when they were a more progressive and innovative force in superhero comics than Marvel. And while I think almost anything is preferable to the way DC was cluelessly and cynically trying to imitate Quesada/Jemas era Marvel between 2003 and 2015, the Rebirth is just not doing it for me. And I believe it's because I find Johns's ideas of what constitutes good DC superhero comics to be a resignation to cranking out middle-of-the-road mediocrity. Inoffensive it may be, but I also find it innocuous to the point of terminal blandness.
I also think that if Johns was as good a writer as, say, Chuck Dixon, or Roy Thomas, or James Hudnall, whose ways of looking at the world (I refuse to use the "P" word) are different in many ways to mine, then I could tolerate the paternalistic, populist, condescending, syrupy-sentimental attitudes that too often work their way into his stories, whether that's his intention or not. But I don't think he is a good writer -- I do think he had the potential to be at one time, but the psychic scars of his worst stories just run too deep within me to ever fully heal and give him a second chance.
I'll still buy the first two trades of Phil & Emanuela's "Superwoman," just as I had said I would a while ago, but that's because it's two of my favorite creators, not out of any deep-rooted loyalty or attachment to DC (and as for Marvel, they lost me way back in 1995, so there's no one-versus-the-other thing going on here.)
I'm not trying to start arguments, or to put down any of my fellow Legion Worlders, and I'm well-past the point of having an actual vendetta toward Johns. I simply don't think he's that talented, and I don't think he's the right creator/executive editor to be at the wheel of the DCU.
Well, Johns lost me years ago, and his name had entered my list of writers to avoid. So I'm certainly not the poster to defend him.
But man, I did enjoy Rebirth #1. As a single issue, it worked for me. I hope whenever he does come back to comics full time that he does some evaluating and comes back a different person than he was when he stopped. We'll see.
I'm loving the whole Rebirth relaunch, as is well documented. Hopefully some of the series eventually are given a chance and impresss you Fanfie. A lot won't be your cup of tea but there may be some ones that do! Still, can't fault you for being pessimistic...I was on the verge of quitting comics a year ago myself.
Yeah, I didn't exactly proclaim, "Geoff Johns is BACK!!!", in my above post either. And though I'm starting to stockpile Rebirth trades, I've yet to read any of them yet. But I feel fairly confident I'll like them based on recommendations like Cobie's.
Basically, I thought Rebirth #1 was great, particularly because of the scene with Barry and Wally and what it represented. This doesn't mean Geoff can do no wrong in my eyes from this point forward, just that he did do right in this one instance, and I give him props for it.
I'll start reading Rebirth trades fairly soon and will definitely share my thoughts on them. The first read will likely be the Green Arrow one.
Fair enough, guys.
After all, like the Legion-Worlder-at-large Kid Chaos once said, "Think how boring it would be if we all agreed on everything."
And, in the interim between my previous post in this one, I remembered that I will be giving at least the first half-dozen or so issues of Batwoman a chance. I mean, it's drawn by Steve Epting, one of a very select few artists who guarantees I will buy at least one or two issues!
And speaking of Steve, I'm off to post in the Thor thread now. Hint, hint...
I think Geoff Johns is a writer who had a good niche to mine who was elevated beyond his skill set and nobody (in power) told him otherwise. That he's a nice guy probably means none of his friends/colleagues would too. He represents a mediocrity in fandom that got to write their childhood heroes, then everyone else's.
Agh.
That being said, I don't think Fanfic's criticism of the bland sweet stuff in Rebirth is too far off. There's a whole part of the line that, after this week, I really don't know if I can keep buying because of cost and value. Unfortunately, Cyborg, New Super-Man and Titans are on my drop list (Teen Titans and Aquaman didn't make it past the first couple issues). I've looked at the issues and I find them either boring or the drawing is not my style or some combination of the two.
When the Rebirth stuff is good, it's fantastic - Deathstroke, Detective and Nightwing are all shining bright for me and I really loved the Green Arrow TPB.
I think Geoff Johns is a writer who had a good niche to mine who was elevated beyond his skill set and nobody (in power) told him otherwise. That he's a nice guy probably means none of his friends/colleagues would too. He represents a mediocrity in fandom that got to write their childhood heroes, then everyone else's.
Agh.
The thing to remember about Geoff Johns is always the attached letter. The
second he was in a position to do so, he ignored everyone else's work and made it "true".
I am reminded in just one page that DC Rebirth's backbone isn't the old DCU, it's the New 52. And everything that comes from Rebirth is built with the New 52 as a foundation despite the illusion that the New 52 is gone.
http://www.craveonline.com/entertainment/1222231-exclusive-preview-green-arrow-18
I don't think they've ever claimed otherwise. Everything is still New52 (other than Superman and Lois), but they've made a conscious effort to shift tonally and editorially in this new direction.
^ I think that's an important point. Because even before the New52 for many years, the "old DCU" felt like a really horrible, shitty place to be. Those Dan Didio years, especially the last few before the New52, were just terrible, and the tone of the entire company was disheartening. When the company relaunched as the New52, the continuity might have changed, but the tone and editorial approach remained the same. That is, for the most part, terrible.
With Rebirth, we have the opposite of the New52: the continuity might be the same but there is a strong tonal and editorial shift that makes the series fun and interesting again.
For me, while the continuity might be different than I'd like, I have come to accept that I just don't plain care anymore. Much more important (to me) is that we have quality series that I actually enjoy reading.
For years online I always read about how in the post-Crisis DCU there were a lot of readers that were just really bummed out at the prospect of all those old pre-Crisis stories being wiped from continuity, or slaving over how to figure out which ones still fit and which ones didn't. And while this hurt them, they eventually came to accept the Post-Crisis DCU as its own entity they could live with. I wonder if we're going to get to the same thing.
As I said, I no longer care. As far as I'm concerned, I can't bother to think about Superman's continuity (and all his supporting characters) prior to Superman Rebirth #1. I know I love the current series and if I start considering the continuity prior to Rebirth #1, it detracts from my enjoyment. Maybe one day that won't be the case, but I don't it be anytime soon.
Justice League of America.
OK so Batman wants a team that is more down to earth, something regular humans can relate to. And yet the team features an alien strong man, a guy who can shrink, a woman with animal powers, and two people with energy based powers. I actually don't mind Atom & Vixen on the type of team that Batman says he is trying to create. And what is the first menace they new Justice League of America fights? A band of super powered aliens. Sure, ordinary people will think "If a person with cold powers can fight super powered aliens, so can I!"
If I was going for a team of more human like characters that ordinary people can relate to and aspire to be, I go with:
Batman
Black Canary
Vixen
Atom
Steel
Dr. Mid-Nite
Liberty Belle (but with limits on the super-speed)
I'd also keep the stories to involve more human level challenges. Even have stories where the whole team is not involved. That's how I would do it.
I don't see this Justice League lasting based on this first issue and first story arc.
And just for the hell of it, I thought I’d give an overview of where I stand with the current Rebirth series, all of which I am still collecting.
Flat out love itSuperman
Action Comics
Super-Sons – one issue in and I already love it
Batman
Detective Comics
All-Star Batman
Nightwing
Batgirl
Red Hood & the Outlaws
Batman Beyond
Wonder Woman
Trinity
Flash
Aquaman
Green Arrow
Cyborg
Deathstroke
Doom Patrol
Cave Carson
Also liking and would recommend to othersNew Super-Man
Batgirl & Birds of Prey - only issue is art needs to improve
Green Lanterns
Justice League of America – only one issue in but so far so good
Hellblazer
Suicide Squad – Romita Jr. art and recent crossover issues have really made it better for me
Hawkman & Adam Strange mini
Deadman: Dark Mansion of Forbidden Love mini
Not bad: enjoying quite a bit but wouldn’t tell people to spend their hard-earned $$ on…(maybe their money that wasn’t hard-earned) Superwoman
Supergirl
Blue Beetle – has steadily gotten better
Justice League
Hal Jordan & the Green Lantern Corps – starting to get better
The Fall and Rise of Captain Atom
Pretty weak but not cancellable yet:Justice League
Titans
Teen Titans
Haven’t gotten to yet:Batwoman
Kamandi
Odyssey of the Amazons
Not reading:Harley Quinn
Shade, the Changing Girl
Mother Panic
Wildstorm
Hanna Barbara titles
Trinity - I dropped it after one issue. I was really hoping for standalone adventures featuring, for lack of a better word, "iconic" takes on the characters. instead, it was waist deep in dead Supermen and WW's grief and Lois and Clark's new identities and whatnot. Should I give it another try, or will it still be annoying me if that's an issue for me?
Here's my current DC list. Not all are Rebirth titles:
Astro City
Batman '66
Batwoman
Cave Carson Has a Cybernetic Eye
Deathstroke
Doom Patrol
Future Quest
Mother Panic
Shade the Changing Girl
Super Sons
Titans
Wonder Woman
Wonder Woman '77
The biggest ?'s are over Batwoman, because her rebirth special didn't really give an idea of where the series was going, and Titans, because I'm really rooting for it to pull out of the doldrums and become a good book. By which I mostly mean stop dealing with broken continuity and start moving forward.
Btw, I also get Astro City but just don't consider it a DC book. It's another long time favorite.
BFOB, for Trinity, it may be hard to say until the first arc is complete. Although Diana and Clark's grief over recent Dcu events haven't really been paramount since #1, the series had continued to be a very introspective look at the 3 characters, specifically their earliest years as children. So it may not be for everyone. What makes me categorize it in the "flat out love" section is the artwork and narrative techniques that Frances Manupal consistently applies--he's gotten better and better over the years, and he's now bringing such a unique and interesting artistic sensibility to this series.
I may give Trinity another shot. I'm fine with introspective character pieces, and their childhoods are certainly reasonable material to mine in a book like this. I just don't want them to be introspecting on the events in other books I have no interest in reading.
I've bought a large number of the Vol. 1 Rebirth trades over the last few months. To this point, I've read the Green Arrow, Superman, Batman and Aquaman ones, which were actually the first four TPB releases.
I enjoyed all four to this point, but somewhat to my surprise, the Aquaman trade has been my favorite to this point. I think, in addition to the bright, beautiful artwork, I'm really enjoying the political backdrop to the story as Arthur tries desperately to bring his two worlds to an understanding, but he's being thwarted by various radical factions and the basic fear and distrust of the surface world towards the undersea kingdom. It's not new ground being trodden exactly, but it feels both fresh and topical even as it reuses old chestnuts like Black Manta. I like Arthur and Mera as a couple and enjoy their very couple-like banter. Also, the nods to Aquaman's dubious reputation as a bit of a running joke is welcome and offset by his pretty astonishing power. Very enjoyable overall and made me eager for the next collection.
Batman was the next best. I think writer Tom King has a take on the character that incorporates many depictions of him without falling too much on any one in particular. For instance, there's a bit of Morrison's seemingly unstoppable Bat-God when he manages to save a commercial airplane, but it is tempered by a poignant moment when it appears he is about to make the ultimate sacrifice. The story deals with the arrival of 2 Superman-level defenders of the Dark Knight's city, named Gotham and Gotham Girl. the way King weaves their inspiration by Batman himself into a metaphor for batman and Gotham itself is really quite brilliant. I look forward to more of what King has to say in future stories.
Kind of on an even keel were the Superman and Green Arrow books. Both were enjoyable, but had more flaws than the above 2 books. I spoke more about this GA trade on his own thread, but it essentially comes down to the art and tone being a little off from what I feel is right for the character. What's important was that the character felt right for the first time in too long. With Superman, everything involving the family unit of Clark, Lois and Jon was absolutely spot-on. The art was excellent, too. But the use of the Eradicator here was really one-note and uninteresting, not to mention a little murky in its purpose. It was fun, though, to see Lois get a chance to kick some ass!
So all four were at least good enough to make me want the next stories, but Aquaman and Batman were the best of this bunch.
I'm loving that you're loving Aquaman! You know, I had a feeling you'd like it because I really feel its a high quality series right now, and for all the reasons you've listed. It's remained that way all the way up through the current issues!
That opening arc on Batman was great, and IMO the series has stayed very good. King definitely has his own style in story-telling and its different that what we've seen before. I like it, and it feels fresh and a good take on Batman. Sometimes you have to trust where he's going to take you, but so far I think it's paid off.
On Superman, I remember the next round of issues, #7-12, is when it emerged as my favorite series being published. The first arc was good, but as you mentioned, the usage of the Eradicator wasn't anything special. It's after that, where the relationships between Clark, Lois and John are explored even further, that I just fell in love with the series.
Green Arrow also improves greatly, but I'll save my comments for that thread.
I think you're in for a treat for the next volume of all four.
Catching up on books this week
Birds of Prey is rocking it
Nightwing took an interesting turn ... Deathwing was NOT what I expected and I appreciated what it was
Green Lanterns... the plot thickens
Justice League has been flat to me
Justice League of America - it has potential. Characters are commenting on Killer Frost and Lobo as members - much like the readers. Vixen and Black Canary shine (for me)
Soooo the latest crossover - The Button - has been exciting
It's well-drawn - and I've enjoyed the dialogue and plotting
The only side stop that didn't make sense for me - Saturn Girl
I wasn't expecting much... so this is pleasantly surprising
I recently read the next four rebirth TPBs. (I've decided to read them in the order of their release, though I don't own every one. There are a number like Harley Quinn, which I don't think I'll ever try, and others like Cyborg, which I'm on the bubble about trying.) The four I'm referring to are Flash, Green Lanterns, Nightwing and Justice league.
Flash Vol. 1: Lightning Strikes Twice is a contender for my favorite of the Rebirth titles I've read so far. It starts with a pretty ambitious arc involving dozens of Central City inhabitants getting empowered with the Speed Force after a mysterious storm strikes them with lightning. We have a combination of new and existing characters, many of whom are interesting and make you want to get to know them better. Barry himself is more interesting than I remember him being in a long time at least in comic book form. And we even get to see new ways of using the Speed Force thru Barry and some of the new characters. It all builds to a fairly compelling new villain named Godspeed, who has an interesting motive that distinguishes him somewhat from Barry's other foes. It's a meaty and rewarding read that does the character justice. And though Cobie was hesitant to recommend the art, I think it's really good and appropriate to a book that features speed. Really good stuff.
Green Lanterns Vol. 1: Rage Planet is one that I was particularly cautious about, having basically been burned out on GL after Geoff Johns' run started to grate. It didn't help that I knew it featured Atrocitus and his Red Lanterns, which was one of Johns' concepts that started to lose me. But I saw Cobie was enjoying it, so I gave it a try. And I'm glad I did because what really drives this book is the characterization of Simon Baz and Jessica Cruz. It's clear that the Red Lanterns are used as the antagonists to shine a light (so to speak) on the characters, their hang-ups, their insecurities, and, yes, their rage over their pasts and their perceived failures. Having them be neophyte Lanterns forced to work with each other and thru their demons together was a brilliant idea and executed well. Though the Red Lanterns are still not exactly compelling, there was some effort made that had some pay-off with Bleez particularly and an apparent connection I never guessed with a Legionnaire's homeworld. I just hope this level of characterization of the co-stars continues in future volumes and doesn't become cliche-ridden.
Nightwing Vol. 1: Better Than Batman is another one I relied on good word-of-mouth to get me to pick up. I do care about Dick Grayson, but historically, his solo books have never sustained my interest for very long. But this was a pretty good start as Dick embarks on a mission to take down the Parliament of Owls from the inside to close out a dark chapter of his life. His mission is complicated by his having to work with a mercenary named Raptor, whom the Owls force Dick to work with. With Raptor Dick edges into more morally gray territory than he's used to as this new mentor/partner shows him alternatives to Dick's famous other mentor/ partner. (At one point I had a crazy theory about raptor's identity that seemed to fit for a while but ultimately proved wrong--I wonder if we were supposed to think that or if it was my own weird engagement to the story?) We ultimately go on a rewarding journey that helps Dick figure out which mentor was right--or at least more right--and get a bit of a history lesson on Dick's time at the circus in the process. With this quality foundation, I'm optimistic that this may be the run of Nightwing I've been waiting for.
Justice League Vol. 1: The Extinction Machines is one I wasn't going to pick up because the recommendation were less than lukewarm. I went ahead and did because I got a really good deal on eBay. But, meh, this was just the most lifeless thing I've read in Rebirth or almost anything else recently. Brian Hitch clearly is not much of a writer at this point. I mean, I'll give him credit for giving every member of the JL some part in the resolution of his story, but it's a real chore to get through. The threat is kind of nebulous and nonsensical and could have benefited from some kind of mastermind bad guy to fight at some point. Instead, I guess there's more to come later to learn the whole story--if I'm even remembering it correctly. I've honestly read things much worse than this, but it's so generic and uninteresting that it feels even worse than it is. Hard pass on future volumes unless either Hitch steps down or I hear he suddenly gets a lot better.
So my overall rankings of the 8 Rebirth books I've read so far.....
Best of the Best--WANT MORE NOW!!!
Aquaman
Flash
Awesomesauce!!
Batman
Really Good, Will Def Continue!
Green Arrow
Superman
Green Lanterns
Nightwing
Where's the Incinerator?
Justice League
So far, there's no "Iffy to Continue or Not", which would be between "Really Good" and "Incinerator". We'll see where the next ones fall.....
Really glad to see that you enjoyed Flash which I’ve loved from the start. The Godspeed arc was fantastic and IMO, the series has remained consistently good with story after story being chalk full of action, characterization and good sci-fi / crime plots. Also glad you loved the art! I have to say that I might be warming to it slightly, probably just getting used to Di Giandomenico’s pencils over time. I’m much more up to date than you, but I’ll add that even the most recent issues, a Flash / Batman crossover, were awesome as it plays up the connection the two heroes have in their love of solving mysteries / examining evidence, which is such a natural reason for them to team up that is almost never used.
I’m also thrilled you like Green Lanterns which I’ve come to love, even more so than the H&GLC series which has all the GLs that I’ve traditionally liked. And that says a lot, because Simon and Jessica have really emerged as favorites of mine, and that is due to the series maintaining that high degree of characterization from the start. Humphries was a bit of a writer who I dismissed prior to rebirth, but here he has shown he’s one of the best, most consistent writers of good characterization in comics. Definite recommendation for you to continue.
Again, I knew you’d love Nightwing and I really thought Raptor was the breakout “new” character of the Rebirth DCU. I’m eagerly awaiting a follow-up story. Nightwing has continued to be fantastic.
Your commentary on Justice League hits the nail right on the head: not the worst story ever but overall pretty generic and uninteresting. That’s kind of been the problem with JL for most of the run so far, though I have to say I’m about 4 issues behind there and my Dad told me the recent story arc has seen a noticeable improvement. We’ll wait and see. Hitch is a great artist but overall its just felt very bland. He also goes to the well too many times with the ‘end of the world’ problems and villains and the 4+ issue arcs.
I also like your grading system! “Incinerator” shall now be entered into the LMB-wide vocabulary!
I read the last few issues of Nightwing, and they were pretty good as a sequel to Morrison's "Batman & Robin" run (which also seems to imply that Dick's time behind the cowl is still in cannon). I'm a sucker for the Dick and Damien pairing, and the writer really nailed it.
^ Yeah, that's a really good point. IIRC, Lardy is also a sucker for that pairing too, and I think he'd enjoy the issues for that alone. I was the type of reader that took a long time to warm up to Dick & Damien, but I eventually did. And I found this "sequel" highly enjoyable for that reason. They incorporated a lot of other Morrison elements from both B&R and his Bruce-Batman run.
Justice League. I think the main problem is that the writer(s) feel they have to use all the members in every story. That also might be a directive from the powers that be.
SUPER SONS is the BEST Rebirth title. Just want to throw that out there.
Agreed on Super Sons, although deathstroke is neck and neck for me. I'm also enjoying wonder woman, although not as much as I hoped I would. And my love hate relationship with Titans continues. Does Kamandi Challenge count as rebirth? Because it's pretty awesome. I'm not really counting any of the young animal titles in there, because they don't really feel like rebirth, despite the fact that they are in continuity and therefore technically are.
SUPER SONS is the BEST Rebirth title. Just want to throw that out there.
Hard to argue this. It's definitely a contender for best title in comics right now.
Also, have to agree on how flat out fantastic Kamandi has been. Absolutely loving every issue so far--it's been a highlight of 2017 and at the top of my reading pile. It's made me pumped for Mr. Miracle which starts in August!
In fact, in an era where Marvel has said repeatedly how miniseries can't be done anymore, I'm finding DC is really getting miniseries and maxiseries right again: not only is Kamandi good, but I've enjoyed immensely Deadman: Dark Mansion of Forbidden Love, Death of Hawkman, Fall & Rise of Captain Atom and Odyssey of the Amazons. It's like the early 90's again, where great miniseries are a staple of their output!
Well that's good to know about Kamandi ... I'm on the fence when it comes to these experiments
Bug! had a pretty fantastic first issue
Super Sons remains great
Cave Carson still holds my attention but the art is starting to drag on me. The more complex demands of the story are outpacing it.
Doom Patrol was fun, but hopefully the break will let them get their ducks in a row.
Shade is no longer a favourite, but hasn't fallen too far down the list.
Superman & Action are both consistently good, breaking through to great month-to-month
Nightwing has been really good, mostly through the guest stars. Dick would be great for a monthly team-up book.
Trinity looks gorgeous, but the pace is a little slow.
Suicide Squad and Batman both go up and down the quality scale from issue to issue. Every time they get me to a point that I'm digging them, they do something that throws me off again.
Kamandi Challenge is a lot of fun.
As promised, here's the next batch of Rebirth TPBs I've recently read.....
Wonder Woman Vol. 1: The Lies features what I feel is possibly career-best work from veteran artist Liam Sharpe. He pulls back some of his more cartoony, horror-angled leanings to produce some of the most gorgeous WW art I've ever seen. Highly detailed in the vein of a Totleben or Bissette yet totally appropriate for Diana, this is some of the best artwork I've encountered in the Rebirth line. Unfortunately, if I begin a review praising the art, it means the story falls considerably short. Greg Rucka's story is terribly decompressed, which has often been one of his faults. Simply put, not a lot happens over the 7 issues printed here. The bulk of it is occupied with Steve Trevor's ops crew undertaking a mission in Africa that ends up involving the Cheetah and the source of her powers. Diana happens to be seeking the Cheetah herself, so she ends up helping them out. Otherwise, there's a lot of teasing over the TPB's titular premise that Diana has false and conflicting memories as to her origins. Not much to indicate why this has happened and not much progression toward the truth by the end of the story. Otherwise there's some intrigue with the DEO-like organization Diana is working with and some romantic tension with Steve and Diana. (As an aside, Steve is so bulked up here, he looks too much like Steve Rogers almost to the point of distraction, btw.) Just not a lot of meat in this sandwich, unfortunately. I suspect this was a lot less noticeable in floppies with every other issue featuring the Year One story with Nicola Scott, but separated in a trade, this is a very unfulfilling story, imo. I would almost not continue if I didn't want to see what Scott did in the other story.
Detective Comics Vol. 1: Rise of the Batmen, on the other hand, really COOKED! Much like the Batman volume that preceded it, this one had lots going for it and was a real page-turner. James Tynion IV uses a Batwoman supporting character who has been present since the current incarnation's inception and finds a new role for him that is both logical and painful. Kate herself heads up a squad of Bat-protoges, including Tim Drake, Spoiler, Orphan and the surprising addition of Clayface. The others take kind of a back seat as Kate and Tim get the bulk of the attention, but the story really justifies it. In fact it's one of the best roles Tim or Kate have ever had, and that's really saying something with all the great stories Tim has had. (My only caveat here with Tim is that he seems almost like DC's Reed Richards. He's always been gifted and clever, but I don't know if he should be quite what he is shown here.) It's a cool concept involving a shady government ops group adapting Batman's methods and equipment to fight terrorism and coming into conflict with the heroes they emulate. Along the way, a seemingly forgotten villain from Tim's long-running title is brought back to very good effect. And it has a powerful ending that would be a fitting send-off for one of these characters, but even as it is under-cut to serve the higher Rebirth backstory, it's still good stuff that shows you that character's worth. Excellent book!
Action Comics Vol. 1: Path of Doom assumes that a great way to launch the Rebirth Action Comics era is to bring back fan-favorite villain Doomsday. WRONG! Doomsday's best story was the one everyone remembers where Superman (spoiler) died. Pretty much every subsequent appearance since has been increasingly anti-climactic in comparison. So we get another multi-issue slugfest that takes space away from things we might be more interested in, like Lois and Jon, Superman's conflict with this version of Lex Luthor, the other version of Clark that's running around--basically, the fight with Doomsday is boring as hell. Yes, I can see what Jurgens was trying to do--show how Superman learns from his mistakes, bring him out into the open in the wake of New 52 Superman's demise, give Lois and Jon some idea of the consequences of their husband and father being back out in the open--but if Tomasi and Gleason made a bit of a misstep bringing back the Eradicator in the Superman book, it's magnified more so using the cliched and even more uncharismatic Doomsday. Jurgens did a lot better in the Lois & Clark series that preceded Rebirth, so I know he has it in him. If not for that and if I hadn't heard this book gets better, I'd be tempted not to continue. It's not the dumpster fire that Justice League was, but using Doomsday was a big misstep.
Hal Jordan and the Green Lantern Corps. Vol 1: Sinestro's Law very quickly comes off as the writers wanking off to Geoff Johns (Ethan Van Sciver's aboard as co-writer and sometimes penciller, so that's not surprising). I know it's impossible to ignore his contributions, but I think Green Lanterns did a better job of overcoming comparisons with some solid characterization even while using his Red Lanterns as antagonists. And there's also the confusing story set-up: most of the GLC has disappeared without explanation, and the Sinestro Corps. has taken its place as galactic law enforcement. It's really unclear if this has occurred in the gap between New 52 and Rebirth or if it was set up at the end of the previous series. I really don't know for sure. But it almost feels like Sinestro Corps. War II in some ways, and that's not a great way to make a fresh start. Sometimes, a Rebirth series's long game can be frustrating. The case in point here is that the missing GLC returns very early in the story severely depleted and with very little hint of where they've been and what was responsible. Presumably, that's for a future arc, but yet again, the GLC has been decimated, and we don't even know why. So a lot of familiar GLC tropes along with Hal playing his usual Hero Among Heroes role and some groan-worthy scenes of Guy Gardner overcoming torture by reciting the Green Lantern oath over and over. But even with all that, it does manage to stick a pretty decent ending. Soranik Natu's role, for example, is pretty interesting as is the revelation that some of the Sinestro Corps actually want to do the right thing. So it's hard to recommend for anyone burned out on Johns-style Green Lantern but perfectly fine if you're not so much. Plus, I hear the book improves later.
So other than 'Tec, this was not a great batch at all. Here's my Rebirth rankings as of their first TPBs.....
Best of the Best--WANT MORE NOW!!!
Aquaman
Flash
Awesomesauce!!
Batman
Detective Comics
Really Good, Will Def Continue!
Green Arrow
Superman
Green Lanterns
Nightwing
meh. May or may not continue
Wonder Woman
Action Comics
Hal Jordan and the GLC
Where's the Incinerator?
Justice League
I talked about this in this weeks book review s thread, But: I think you'll probably have a lot of the same issues with the second present day wonder woman volume, the truth. And but it pulled off a good ending, and actually left me hopeful for the book going forward.
I was so disappointed by the decision to bring back Barry Allen that I never really even gave his books a chance. But if so many people in this forum are giving it good marks, I may give it a shot. Should I start from rebirth?
I was so disappointed by the decision to bring back Barry Allen that I never really even gave his books a chance. But if so many people in this forum are giving it good marks, I may give it a shot. Should I start from rebirth?
I'd say that it depends. I'm kinda predisposed to like certain books if they nail certain elements and to not like others if I normally wouldn't get them and they don't impress. I'd say that if you've really liked Flash comics in the past, then you are likely to enjoy this and should start back with Rebirth. If Barry Allen is a big hurdle, it might be more iffy for you. But I will say that Barry stands out more as a character here than the traditionally vanilla Barry normally does in comics, even without changing who he is at his core. I suppose my final recommendation is to find a cheap vol. 1 on eBay or even a free copy to check out at the library if in doubt.
I talked about this in this weeks book review s thread, But: I think you'll probably have a lot of the same issues with the second present day wonder woman volume, the truth. And but it pulled off a good ending, and actually left me hopeful for the book going forward.
How about the "Year One" arc? I'm holding out hope that it's a lot better than "The Lies". Is it?
I enjoyed it. It definitely felt more like a story and less like a series of things that happened. And the art was of course beautiful. But in the year that produced wonder woman earth one, the legend of wonder woman, and wonder woman the true Amazon, I can't really do more than damn it with the faint praise of being the fourth best retelling of wonder woman's origin to be published in 2016.
Action reads a bit better when alternated with Superman even when they run separate stories. While Superman focuses almost exclusively on the family element (particularly Clark & Jon), Action does more with the surrounding characters (Lex, Lois, New Clark), and the Superman parts are more of a narrative drive.
I'm glad I'm not the only one that finds Justice League BAD ... I just stopped this month with it.
I suspect Dave is right, in that reading Action on a bi-monthly basis probably reads better with Superman every other week. I think Action in general picks up really nicely after the first arc with more focus on Lex, the Planet and especially Lois. I think you'll enjoy subsequent arcs and would recommend you continue.
BFOB, I agree with Lardy--start with Rebirth for Flash. Starting any earlier might have an adverse effect. I hated Barry's return too, but this fresh start helped me embrace this series.
I also struggled on Hal & GLC. And while the series had clearly improved, its still on the weaker end of the Rebirth spectrum even now. It's an odd combo of too many characters yet it still feels like a struggle for anything to happen. Soranik is done well, as are some other alien GLs (Kilowog, etc) but the big 4 verge on being cliche versions of themselves.
Love that you're loving Tec. I loved it from the start and it's stayed great. Batman and Batwoman play great roles and of course it's the others who make this series work so well.
Lastly, I can easily see how WW doesn't read as well when it's split up into the separate arcs. I had wondered myself if that will be the case. The art is truly incredible--seminal stuff from Scott and Sharp--but there's definitely a slow Rucka pace. Things do pick up in later arcs, but again, I'm curious if not reading the arcs on a rotating issue basis miscolored my perceptions. I would recommend you stick with WW a bit longer and see.
I have to say that I loved the holographic cover to last month's Flash
^ yeah, same here. Whoever thought to make it a nod to the Golden Age Flash Comics had a moment of brilliance.
Of course it would've been nice had Jay actually stuck around instead of getting sucked back into the Speed Force.
I picked up the first two Flash Rebirth trades based on the convo here
The first one was surprisingly good. I'm not a big Barry fan but I found this portrayal pretty compelling. The counterbalance of Godspeed was well played, as were the Wallys. The art moved well. In a book about speedsters, that's a great thing
On to trade 2!
I'm lucky enough that my pre-order partner collects Aquaman, Flash, and the GL books, so I've had a first-crack free ride on their Rebirth runs. Aquaman's been great since Johns' New 52 run, and Flash Rebirth has been a lot of fun as well. I'm liking GL(s)' focus on the newer faces, and can relate to Jessica's anxiety problems. She and Baz compliment each other, shoring up each other's shortcomings and bolstering their strengths. HGLC has all our familiar GL faces... Sucks that
Kyle is no longer a White Lantern
, but hopefully there's an endgame with that, Hal's embodiment of Willpower, and St. Walker's mission to rebuild the Blue Corps. My least favorite of the Rebirth titles I'm reading (I get 'Tec, Batwoman, Batgirl, BBOP, Nightwing, Super Sons, and Wonder Woman myself), but by no means is it BAD. Really enjoying REBIRTH as a whole.
I picked up the first two Flash Rebirth trades based on the convo here
The first one was surprisingly good. I'm not a big Barry fan but I found this portrayal pretty compelling. The counterbalance of Godspeed was well played, as were the Wallys. The art moved well. In a book about speedsters, that's a great thing
On to trade 2!
Andy, I'm pleased that the recommendations from me and others worked out well for you regarding Flash! I hope to get that second trade before long, as well.
While I'm in this thread, I'm curious to see if anyone has anything to say about the initial Cyborg, Supergirl and Blue Beetle storylines for Rebirth. I seem to recall Cobie having positive things to say about one or more of these initially, but I don't know what he or anyone else thought after the first 6 or 7 issues. I've been "wait and see" about these for a variety of reasons, including none of these three being characters that I would have automatically followed in the past. Cyborg, of course, has only headlined series in the last couple of years. Supergirl, I only loved during the Gates/Igle run in the modern age (plus PAD's run, but that's a different character). Blue Beetle, I've never bought any ongoing of Ted's or Jaime's. So you can see the dilemma, I think.
Disappointed to read that Greg Rucka is leaving Wonder Woman again just as I feel I can start to see the potential in this take. Ah well, we'll see who follows. Hopefully with the movie launching, it will be a thoughtful choice.
I also really enjoyed Flash, although I haven't finished the first trade yet. I'm seeing a lot of backstory added that reminds me of the show. Did the comics swipe from the show, or was this added when Barry returned, and the show swipe from the comics?
ETA: I have already had Godspeed's identity spoiled, so no fears on that front.
I just read about the events of Superman Reborn. It feels like a switch that should have been made right off the bat in Rebirth, instead months of confusing continuity snarls, and a major shift in the middle of a run that will make it forever an awkward read. Still, now that it's in the past, I'm thinking of giving them another shot. I'm still too mad about the bait-and-switch to look at Superwoman again.
While I'm in this thread, I'm curious to see if anyone has anything to say about the initial Cyborg, Supergirl and Blue Beetle storylines for Rebirth. I seem to recall Cobie having positive things to say about one or more of these initially, but I don't know what he or anyone else thought after the first 6 or 7 issues. I've been "wait and see" about these for a variety of reasons, including none of these three being characters that I would have automatically followed in the past. Cyborg, of course, has only headlined series in the last couple of years. Supergirl, I only loved during the Gates/Igle run in the modern age (plus PAD's run, but that's a different character). Blue Beetle, I've never bought any ongoing of Ted's or Jaime's. So you can see the dilemma, I think.
I've only read the Legion specific (Emerald Empress/New Fatal Five) Supergirl. It's.... OK. Seems like it's trying to blend a bunch of different sources (the show, earlier incarnations, dealign with the Superman REborn aftermath), that it doesn't have much in terms of firm footing. The "World's Finest" stuff with Batgirl seems forced, but I did like her interactions with Jon.
I’m also thrilled about the positive reception to the Flash Rebirth series! I’ve been a proponent of it from the start and it was one of the initial series that started building my rebirth enthusiasm early on.
While I'm in this thread, I'm curious to see if anyone has anything to say about the initial Cyborg, Supergirl and Blue Beetle storylines for Rebirth. I seem to recall Cobie having positive things to say about one or more of these initially, but I don't know what he or anyone else thought after the first 6 or 7 issues. I've been "wait and see" about these for a variety of reasons, including none of these three being characters that I would have automatically followed in the past. Cyborg, of course, has only headlined series in the last couple of years. Supergirl, I only loved during the Gates/Igle run in the modern age (plus PAD's run, but that's a different character). Blue Beetle, I've never bought any ongoing of Ted's or Jaime's. So you can see the dilemma, I think.
Thoughts on Cyborg, Supergirl and Blue Beetle:
Cyborg has been nothing short of excellent, and I highly recommend it. Even though he didn’t have prior solo series, and the “return to basics” concept isn’t totally applicable, there is that sense within the series that they are presenting a really fantastic science-fiction oriented superhero using a lot of the great story-telling techniques of the days of yore. What I mean is, this series reminds me of 80’s Firestorm, or 90’s Ray, or Blue Devil, or a whole host of series that were very unique yet all also told a strong superhero story on a regular basis. It has great characterization, an overarching conflict between father & son, romance, and great new supporting characters being introduced. I’ve liked Vic for years but from the Wolfman / Perez days forward, he was never a hero I was clamoring for; when he was introduced as a JLA original, I scoffed. Yet this series has been really great and made him a character I feel DC *MUST* keep going as a solo star.
For some reason, I’ve just been unable to really connect with Supergirl the series. I like Supergirl the character, and I like what they’re trying to do, but it always ends up at the bottom of the pile for me, and I often find myself skimming through it. The artwork is nice, though sometimes a little too anime for my tastes, though the colors always pop nicely. I’m not sure. Not a bad series, and better than say, JLA or either Titans book, but it’s still missing something. I have to wonder if I’m just not the target audience, and if that is the case, then I’m okay with it.
Lastly, Blue Beetle is a series I had high hopes for, because the Ted Kord Blue Beetle is my father’s favorite character after Spider-Man, and has been since the Ditko Blue Beetle series in the late Silver Age. So despite his involvement and an open mind about Jamie…I’ve been relatively disappointed by the series in general. What it comes down to is this: crappy costume aside and despite whoever is being used as the Beetle or his mentor, the story-telling by Giffen and Scott Kollins has been sub-par. There is far too much talking heads, far too much “teenagers being snarky because hey, that’s the hip thing to do” and far too much mystical nonsense / shenanigans. It all kind of runs together and becomes pretty uninteresting. That all being said…it is getting a little better. And I think the reason its getting better is because DC wants this series to succeed and they are recognizing the flaws and trying to fix them. Giffen has always needed a co-writer to produce high quality stuff, and they’re bringing in the incredible J.M. Dematteis to do that. Since Dematteis is one of the best Spider-Man scribes of all time, I’m hoping he has an immediate effect, and starts giving us so more fluid pacing, some better superhero action and much better, more realistic dialogue that sounds like actual people and not old men trying to be teenagers. I also can’t tell if the long-term goal is for a new costume for Jamie that is more in line with Ted’s classic, but if that is true, that will help. All in all, I’m sure this doesn’t read like a huge endorsement to try it out if you’re on the fence—but for me personally, I’m hoping things do improve. If they do, I may end up recommending skipping the first arc and coming in with Dematteis.
So: Cyborg is a Big YES, while it’s hard to recommend either Superigrl or Blue Beetle though neither is all that bad and your mileage may vary.
Also, I noted the comment about Superwoman above too--I just have to add, that IMO, Superwoman is probably the Rebirth series I've enjoyed the least. I'll add that Harley Quinn takes that title, but its very clear that Harley Quinn is not for me, and is the modern version of DC's Lobo series of the 90's, so it almost doesn't count. But overall Superwoman has been terrible. I don't mind that they're rebooting the whole thing in the wake of Reborn because it didn't really add much for me. I expected much better from Phil.
Making Lois or Lana Superwoman on an ongoing basis seems to do either character a disservice and undermines them in the long run. This is, of course, because it will always inevitably come to a crashing halt. Perhaps the better play would have been to use Natasha Irons, who is heading in that direction anyway, and could add some welcome diversity to the Super-family. Plus there is a built-in tension with her father, who was one of the best new characters of the 90's.
Speaking of Steel, I have to add that I find it a really annoying trend that any female superhero has to have a superhero boyfriend as they did with Lana and Steel. They did it with Captain Marvel (Carol over at Marvel) as well a few years ago. In my mind it becomes a bit of a security blanket--as if to say "a male superhero can have any kind of girlfriend, but a female superhero with a non-powered boyfriend is just too boring". And as evidenced by Steel's role in this series so far, it certainly hasn't done him any favors. The lone exception lately has been Steve Trevor, who is being written very well over in Wonder Woman.
Appreciate the detailed feedback, Cobie! I think with your (and Dave's) feedback, Supergirl is a soft pass. Blue Beetle sounds like a hard pass, at least thru Vol. 1.
Superwoman sounds like a dumpster fire! Even if it wasn't, it sure sounds like the Superman revision would have torpedoed it!
And Cyborg sounds like a can't miss! I'll have to move that one to the top of my acquisition priorities. I'm excited for it, now!!!
Yeah, I think you'll really enjoy Cyborg! Glad to hear it's moving up priority wise!
I finally read Batman rebirth. That was… Terrible. Apparently Batman has a new protégé or something. No sign of Robin or explanation for why Batman needs a new protégé. No explanation of who this guy is. Apparently something is wrong with his parents. He referred to himself as Duke, but I don't even know if that was the first or last name. No explanation of his backstory or his relationship to Batman. No indication of what is supposed to set him apart from the many many bat people already floating around. Considering that his introduction is the heart of the story, it left me so confused that I am not even in a position to judge the quality of the work itself. This might be a good read for people who already knew what was going on with the Batman books at this point, but as an attempt to draw in new readers, i'd rated the worst rebirth comic I've read yet. I read a bunch of books that were bad, but none that actively alienated a new reader to this degree.
Duke Thomas was one of the leaders of the "We are Robin..." movement (from the series of the same name), which was a vigilante team, burgeoning political movement, or glorified street gang, depending on the point of view. When they disbanded Batman took Duke on as part of a new accelerated "Partner Training Program" as opposed to him being a sidekick or protégé.
I just read the first rebirth issue of detective and really liked it. But the information you just gave me made his absence from that very strange
On a different note, is it just me or has DC's Rebirth era been remarkably... stable? Lots of books still done by the creative teams that launched them a year ago. None of the dropped plots because they change direction every two weeks. No reports of terrible behind the scenes drama (well, let's say it's reduced to the amount of behind the scenes drama we normally expect to be reported in comics).
It's eerie. I feel like the parent of a toddler who just realized with a worried start that the house has been unnaturally quiet the previous few minutes.
Anyone getting Trinity? I'm sure a plus is that the art is by our pal Francis Manapul. It's also written by him, which might be problematic.
I got the first issue. It was deeply embedded in the current storylines in the various characters' books. If it became less a book for exploring the ramifications of other books' plot developments, I'd be willing to give it another shot. I suspect it's another run made awkward by a mid-run course correction after Superman Reborn.
There's a natural story break when "Reborn" happens, so Trinity is able to pivot pretty seamlessly. It's actually a good scene where Clark describes that he knows things have changed, but not what, and they are all put on alert for reality changes (Diana, due to her recent experiences, is sympathetic). Overall, the book is gorgeous, but it's slow moving and ultimately doesn't feel necessary, but man is it nice to look at.
See my comments earlier in the thread--I understood BotB's concerns but ultimately by the second issue, prior continuity wasn't a huge concern.
The series is really beautiful and that alone makes it worth it IMO. The plot is slow, but it's still pretty good. It's definitely Manupal's best writing to date, and I bet it reads even better as a trade.
It's also probably the best written the Trinity has been with each other in an age, not to mention Lois having a great role too.
This week I'll start reading my next wave of four Rebirth TPBs: Titans, Suicide Squad, Deathstroke & Batgirl.
I have fairly low expectations for Titans and Suicide Squad. I decided to get Titans because that was where we follow Wally after the big Rebirth special that started the current initiative and, of course, memorably brought Wally back. The Squad I got in kind of a package deal on eBay. Otherwise, I might have skipped it, though there is always the vague, possibly fruitless hope that someone may yet recapture the what only John Ostrander has been able to do with the concept.
Batgirl and especially Deathstroke have been eagerly awaited by me for some time based on the good to great word of mouth they've gotten here and elsewhere. Can't wait to read, review and update my Rebirth rankings!
Eagerly await your thoughts on all!
Interested to see how they reprinted Suicide Squad's "Black Vault" issues. Do they keep the Jim Lee story together and then the backups, or do they alternate? I assume the later because some of the backups inform the main stories.
Guys I'm trying to remember but when Rebirth's titles were first announced wasn't there a book called "The Super-Man?" And no I don't mean New Super-Man this was a separate thing.
Focusing on a Chinese teenager named Kenan Kong who gains a portion of Superman's power. The title was previously announced as The Super-Man but was changed once Yang came onboard and pointed out that there is no Chinese word for "the".
(From the Wikipedia article).
A couple of questions from someone who gave New52 a hard pass.
What is Lex Luthor's deal? I'm reading the pre-Reborn Superman stuff with power suit Super-Lex, but I don't know how seriously to take his possible heroism.
What about the New Gods? I know Darkseid was around, and assumably his evil cronies. But what about the good new Gods? What, in particular, about Mister Miracle, who is about to get a new Maxi-series. How much 52 baggage will come with that?
Can anyone tell me the current whereabouts and status of Cassie, Connor and Bart? Don't break my heart by telling me the stories I've caught snippets of and refused to explore. I just want to know where they are right now, and if they are in a position to return, or at least set in a happy situation in limbo.
Finally, I kind of want to read a series starring Red Hood, Artemis, and BIzzaro. Can any recommend an appropriate medication to make that go away?
ETA: Am I a bad person if I think replacing the white in Hawk's costume with grey was a really great change? Not praising any other aspect of the art, and I know nothing about the story. But I do find that one color change really sharp.
Luthor scammed his way onto the Justice League during Forever Evil. It's been pretty inconsistent as to whether his intentions are genuinely good and he's just too "Luthor" to get over himself, or if he has ulterior motives. After Rebirth, the portrayal has been that he truly believes he's a hero, but he's also still arrogant, mistrustful, and has a mean streak. He's had little internal dialogue that conclusively says he's got more nefarious motives.
New Gods have been a mess under Johns, so I hope it's mostly ignored. Darkseid was a punch/kick brute with a bunch of henchmen, and the New Gods exist as sort of Powerful Aliens more than Gods (or so it seems to me). Mr. Miracle showed up the help the heroes of Earth-2, but I'm not sure what his status is. Darkseid and the Anti-Monitor threw down and were both seemingly destroyed (I think).
Kon-el (Don't know if he was called Conner) was created by NOWHERE as a weapon, rebelled, defected to the Teen Titans and after much craziness, is now basically walking the Earth learning different meditation and enlightenment techniques.
Cassie is Wonder Woman's niece (her father is a demi-god named Lennox), and gets her powers from her "Invisible Armour", not sure of her status.
Bart Allen is amnesiac criminal from the future (real name Bart Torr), He was sent to the past as sort of a witness relocation thing (They also wiped his memories and gave him a new personality). When the truth was revealed he had difficulty reconciling his conflicting lives. He ultimately went to future prison, but later appeared back in the present with a grudge against Tim for leaving him there. He's still floating around somewhere.
With luck, a lot of this can be negated/revised after "Reborn" (although according to the Super-books, Conner definitely was nowhere to be found in "Reign of the Supermen")
There is the question of who's being referred to as Tim's fellow prisoners in the September
Detective Comics solicit,,,
- DETECTIVE COMICS #965
Written by JAMES TYNION IV
Art by EDDY BARROWS
Cover by EDDY BARROWS
Variant cover by RAFAEL ALBUQUERQUE
“A Lonely Place Of Living” part one! It’s the story you’ve demanded: Where in the world (or otherwise) is Tim Drake? Red Robin faces a crossroads…escape the most devious prison ever devised, or find himself abandoned beyond time and space for all eternity! Not much of a choice, right? But when he finds out just who is locked in there with him, Tim’s world will change in ways he never imagined! This is one of the biggest stories of the REBIRTH era, setting the stage for an explosive DETECTIVE COMICS epic!
On sale SEPTEMBER 27 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US • RATED T
Given that the entirety of the rest of the core YJ lineup has been MIA throughout Rebirth, speculation naturally occurs.
Finally, I kind of want to read a series starring Red Hood, Artemis, and BIzzaro. Can any recommend an appropriate medication to make that go away?
Not really. It's a decent series.
So are they gonna tell us what happened to the real Tim or is witness protection boy still it.
There is the question of who's being referred to as Tim's fellow prisoners in the September
Detective Comics solicit,,,
- DETECTIVE COMICS #965
Written by JAMES TYNION IV
Art by EDDY BARROWS
Cover by EDDY BARROWS
Variant cover by RAFAEL ALBUQUERQUE
“A Lonely Place Of Living” part one! It’s the story you’ve demanded: Where in the world (or otherwise) is Tim Drake? Red Robin faces a crossroads…escape the most devious prison ever devised, or find himself abandoned beyond time and space for all eternity! Not much of a choice, right? But when he finds out just who is locked in there with him, Tim’s world will change in ways he never imagined! This is one of the biggest stories of the REBIRTH era, setting the stage for an explosive DETECTIVE COMICS epic!
On sale SEPTEMBER 27 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US • RATED T
Given that the entirety of the rest of the core YJ lineup has been MIA throughout Rebirth, speculation naturally occurs.
Finally, I kind of want to read a series starring Red Hood, Artemis, and BIzzaro. Can any recommend an appropriate medication to make that go away?
Not really. It's a decent series.
3 things:
I had never even considered the rest of the Young Justice crew might be MIA with Tim. That would fantastic!
I also recommend Red Hood & the Outlaws. It was a pleasant surprise, and has been consistently good.
And lastly, in reference to a bunch of other posts, I know some readers like for the continuity to make sense and I don't blame you (as I was like that for a long, long time) but I personally have ignored anything pre-Rebirth. Whatever the status of Lex, the New Gods, Conner, Cassie, Bart, etc. was prior to Rebirth #1 in my mind didn't happen. It'll only have happened once they sort out those characters back stories going forward. So if the new Mr. Miracle maxiseries totally ignores John's depiction of Mr. Miracle in the DCnU, then that would be The Tits.
I'm actually cool with the continuity changing. After all, I sat out most of New 52 for a reason. I'm just unsure what stories inform the current ones and which don't. And the fact that so many stories are built around continuity, it makes me more aware. I keep saying this, but when the characters themselves keep talking about how they can't keep their own continuity straight, it makes it hard for me to just relax and go with the flow.
Still, I'm enjoying a bunch of books enough to make the effort, which is more than I can say for a long time.
Little did I know that had I read the very next arc in Action, my Luthor question would have been answered.
I finally got through Superman Reborn. I've had a real love/hate with the Rebirth Super-books. There's a lot to like, especially in Action. But it will surprise no one that the continuity stuff drove me crazy. I've been hanging on in the hopes that post-reborn books will keep what I like and back off what I didn't. The New World was perfect: enough of a general outline that I feel like I'm grounded in this version of the character, without getting bogged down in the minutiae. I wish Titans would do a story like that, it would help me relax and go with the flow more. I'm very hopeful going forward.
I may give New Superman another go. I wanted to like it, but just couldn't get through the first issue. It may have just been the mood I was in at the time.
BFOB and I have been talking about it in his review thread, but I wanted to reiterate over here that one thing I've enjoyed lately is that all of the series that are reaching the 25th issue benchmark have been having fantastic 25th issues. It appears as if DC is making a concerted effort to move each series to its next phase, with some interesting and potentially great stories to come. For the first year, they basically established the tone and set-up of each series and for the most part did a great job telling some great stories. Now with things 'set up', they're pushing even further.
Examples of this are Batman, Superman, Flash, Aquaman, Green Arrow and Green Lanterns, all of which had excellent 25th issues. All (4) are really fantastic series and all of them are the best they've been so far right now. This really is a new DC: rather than blow their load at once, they've actually gotten better, even when they started off great.
Meanwhile, I read a shitload of comics over the 4th of July weekend, and during that spree I caught up on the last few issues of Cyborg. I can't reiterate enough how great this series is. When you visit Bleeding Cool or other comic book "news" websites, they blather on and on about diversity, etc. (as if this hasn't been a topic of serious discussion since the late 80's); yet right now DC has the very best POC lead character series in comic books and it gets almost no press. Well written, great art, incredible world-building of cast & enemies, and all the qualities needed for a superhero to take his place among the iconic members of the JLA.
I also have been loving the DC Annuals over the last year. Most notably, the recent Wonder Woman Annual was terrific, as was the Batman Annual a few months ago. In both cases, it took an anthology approach with 4-5 short stories, and most of the stories were really good. I love anthologies and I love short stories but often they can be used for filler--definitely not the case here and another indication that somehow, someway, DC started to 'get it' again when it comes to telling great superhero stories.
So I think I am nearing the end of my Rebirth experiment 2.0. New titles I have added, mostly thanks to all of you: Action, Superman, New Super-Man, Aquaman, Cyborg, and Flash. Technically Teen Titans, but I had already decided to give it another go leading into the Lazarus Contract storyline. Detective was a very near miss, but I ultimately decided it didn't QUITE make the cut, mostly just down to how long my list is. The last books I'm considering giving a spin: Red Hood and the Outlaws, mostly for Artemis, Trinity, and maybe Green Arrow.
I do notice that Aquaman has switched to monthly. Is that down to sales? Deathstroke is as well, but that always seemed to be an odd choice for twice-monthly anyway.
ETA on Bleeding Cool: I agree that they are better at talking the talk on diversity than walking the walk, but I don't think the fact that it's been brought up since the 80s detracts from the importance of discussing it today. If the industry had fixed the problem in the 80s no one would HAVE to discuss it today. And as recent Marvel comments have shown, it's often two steps forward one step back.
Ok I picked up the first TPB of Red Hood & the Outlaws based on the discussion on here...
I liked it. I had to reread it just to make sure. The art flows well, the action is solid, the voices come through. It's a good little book.
I also picked up Green Arrow vol 2. WOW there is a LOT going on here. Really get a lot of meat on the stories, and I like that.
Time for the long-awaited (?) next batch of Rebirth TPBs I read most recently.....
Titans Vol. 1: The Return of Wally West is where you go if you want to know what happens next to Wally after his featured role in the DCU Rebirth one-shot. Wally decides to next try to reconnect with his former teammates in the Titans. He succeeds, but the reunion is immediately crashed by an old foe of both Wally's and Barry's. It turns out this foe is apparently responsible for Wally's timeline displacement and is seeking a final revenge against Wally. Well, the reunion feels a little weird because this isn't exactly the Titans we remember. For one thing, Lilith is kind of shoe-horned in as a (presumed) founder. Plus, though Wally was definitely close to his fellow Titans, he was almost always a reluctant member whom memorably left the team during the build-up to the Judas Contract. As the Flash, though, he was a model JL member, so his Titans membership seems more secondary. Anyhow, the bulk of the story is the Titans running around in circles against this foe and his juiced-up dopplegangers of the Titans' younger versions. So for a trade containing 7 issues of this story, it kinda wears. But in the last couple of issues, Dan Abnett channels some of his best Mark Waid-era Wally and brings home something that hearkens back to that era nicely. Honestly, if you're a fan of that Waid run on Wally, it's hard not to get a little misty as he pushes himself to save his friends and the woman he loves in an impossibly tight window and then faces possibly paying the ultimate price for having to push so hard. I'd say that this positive combined with my other reservations makes the trade a pretty good Wally West story but only a so-so at best Titans story.
Suicide Squad Vol. 1: The Black Vault is one I wasn't going to pick up based on word of mouth. I ended up getting it as part of a package deal, so I read it anyway. The Squad is put together to find and confiscate a mysterious weapon of mass destruction from a Russian underwater prison. In the process, they meet a similar team to oppose them and discover that the WMD is more than they ever imagined. It seems the story was tailored to allow artist Jim Lee to complete on schedule, originally serialized as lead stories with solo character back-ups by other artists. So the lead, titular main story is, like, 50-60 pages maybe. I guess you can say it's not decompressed, at least, but it's kinda light for a headliner of a TPB. The characterization is not all that compelling, and the story/mission is not exactly complex. It's pretty much an actioner with an obligatory (though shocking) death. And a plot device in the form of an inside character is introduced who pretty much singlehandedly saves the day. Just not a read that lives up even close to the foundation that John Ostrander laid for great Suicide Squad stories decades ago. Maybe that's unfair, but it's the angle I come into this from. Plus, Jim lee on art ain't what he used to be. It's clear that he either did mostly rough pencils to allow his army of embellishers to finish because he just can't produce, or his style just isn't all that timeless. And I'll say it: Harley Quinn and her supposed and ill-defined skill-set just doesn't fit in with the rest of the group. The back-ups are better stories overall, but they don't save this trade from being any more than a mediocre package overall. I'd have to hear high recommendations about the subsequent stories to give Vol. 2 a go.
Deathstroke Vol. 1: The Professional is one of those Rebirth collections I've been chomping at the bit to get to because of the high recommendations here and among various professionals--plus I'm a big fan of what I feel is Christopher Priest's masterwork to date, his run on Black Panther.The fact that Slade isn't exactly a character I gravitate toward was not a concern because Priest did wonders with T'Challa, and I had no previous affinity for that character either. Priest, when he's at the top of his game, writes dense, smart stories that bring out the essence of the characters he writes, and that's exactly what he does here. Slade is pretty much the enigmatic, cool-as-cucumber bad-ass he's always been, but the supporting cast brings depth and context to the enigma (much as was done with T'Challa). Priest's scripts demand your full attention because every single detail is there for a reason which will be revealed or called back when you don't expect it and shows that everything is part of the greater design. It can be frustrating if you're used to your comics being light reads almost entirely driven by action pieces, but if you want depth and nuance in your funny books, Deathstroke is for you. The action and characterization is laced with a mixture of politics, conspiracy with a healthy dose of flashbacks to paint current events with some needed context. Plus, Slade matches wits with Batman and Damien in a way that is refreshingly unexpected, emphasizing tactics and psychology over the physical. The art, which is primarily pencilled by Joe Bennett and Carlos Pagulayan is very clear, dynamic and expressiveand blends in well between their issues and the other artists. I also like that it is pencil-and-ink, rather than the pencils-to-colors that is so prolific these days. This book needs grit, and pencil-to-ink serves that well. Biggest drawback is that DC made the inexplicable decision to hold off on the final 2 chapters of this arc until the next trade. It's frustrating because the story is now artificially incomplete, and many of the Rebirth trades contain what would have been the necessary 8 issues to complete the story; this one has 6. I can only presume that the next arc isn't long enough, so DC decided to leave those issues to make that one fuller. So the content is excellent but frustratingly incomplete which keeps this trade from being the best it could be.
Batgirl Vol. 1: Beyond Burnside ended up being the best of this batch and is another in the feather of the Bat-Office's cap, which has yet to disappoint me. Despite the title, writer Hope Larson continues the great work that Stewart, Fletcher and Tarr started with their popular revamp of the character that directly preceded this run. The main difference is that Barbara is on a kind of sabbatical to Japan, China and other nearby countries to kind of give herself a break and pursue the legend of an Asian heroine called Fruit Bat, who'd been active many decades earlier. Along the way, she runs into a new love interest who she knows from her childhood in Chicago and gets caught up in both his shady dealings and a larger crime ring that deals in some very unusual product--something that is refreshingly different and specific to a foreign culture. Larson uses Barbara brilliantly in a way that distinguishes this as a Batgirl story and not just one that's interchangeable for any other hero to star in. She wisely features what is distinctive about her from the other Bat-characters--not her fighting style or gadgets but her photographic memory--which features heavily in the story's resolution. And just like in the prior run, Barbara is not infallible; she makes some mistakes and takes her share of lumps. But she perseveres in the end, and you are both entertained and enlightened in the process. You're with her all the way and privy to all her hopes, fears and foibles. I've never read Hope Larson's work before to my knowledge, but this is a more-than-excellent first impression. The sole artist throughout the story is Rafael Albuquerque. He's an artist I've loved on Vertigo's American Vampire, but it's a revelation that his artwork transitions so well from a horror book to a light superhero book. Along with Liam Sharpe on Wonder Woman, his is the best work to grace any Rebirth book to date. Instead of finding some Babs Tarr copycat, a wise decision was made to bring in Rafael to truly usher in a new chapter in Barbara Gordon's life. While I don't think he continues beyond this arc, I'm really glad he chose to take the assignment. He won't be pidgeon-holed into just a certain type of book, for sure. Really, a delightful but far from simplistic book!
So let's update my rankings, shall we?
Best of the Best--WANT MORE NOW!!!
Aquaman
Flash
Awesomesauce!!
Batman
Detective Comics
Batgirl
Deathstroke
Really Good, Will Def Continue!
Green Arrow
Superman
Green Lanterns
Nightwing
meh. May or may not continue
Wonder Woman
Action Comics
Hal Jordan and the GLC
Titans
Suicide Squad
Where's the Incinerator?
Justice League
So Titans, I could have ranked higher, but I felt it was so much more of a Wally West story than a Titans story, that it was hard to recommend as such. Plus, it certainly had it's cliche elements and felt a little drawn out. Deathstoke could have been a "Best of the Best" because of its overall high quality, but DC's odd choice to not complete the arc in the trade downgraded it to the point where it could have even gone down to "Really Good", but cooler heads prevailed. Suicide Squad, for the record, is the lowest of the "meh" books and least likely of them to be continued by this reader. But it wasn't quite down to Justice League lows and therefore deserving of incineration.
I'm currently doing a period of floppy reading for the next week, but after that, my next Rebirth batch of four are next to read. They are:
Cyborg
Hellblazer
Batgirl & the Birds of Prey
Green Arrow Vol. 2 (my first Rebirth follow-up!)
As always, I love reading your reviews of the Rebirth trades!
Titans Vol. 1: The Return of Wally West is where you go if you want to know what happens next to Wally after his featured role in the DCU Rebirth one-shot. Wally decides to next try to reconnect with his former teammates in the Titans. He succeeds, but the reunion is immediately crashed by an old foe of both Wally's and Barry's. It turns out this foe is apparently responsible for Wally's timeline displacement and is seeking a final revenge against Wally. Well, the reunion feels a little weird because this isn't exactly the Titans we remember. For one thing, Lilith is kind of shoe-horned in as a (presumed) founder. Plus, though Wally was definitely close to his fellow Titans, he was almost always a reluctant member whom memorably left the team during the build-up to the Judas Contract. As the Flash, though, he was a model JL member, so his Titans membership seems more secondary. Anyhow, the bulk of the story is the Titans running around in circles against this foe and his juiced-up dopplegangers of the Titans' younger versions. So for a trade containing 7 issues of this story, it kinda wears. But in the last couple of issues, Dan Abnett channels some of his best Mark Waid-era Wally and brings home something that hearkens back to that era nicely. Honestly, if you're a fan of that Waid run on Wally, it's hard not to get a little misty as he pushes himself to save his friends and the woman he loves in an impossibly tight window and then faces possibly paying the ultimate price for having to push so hard. I'd say that this positive combined with my other reservations makes the trade a pretty good Wally West story but only a so-so at best Titans story.
I’m glad that you enjoyed this—in fact, I think you ended up enjoying it a lot more than I did. And that might be because as a monthly, it was hard to stay focused on the good Wally West moments of the series and not get bogged down by the ‘meh’ presentation of the rest of the Titans. I felt that even their interactions with one another left a lot to be desired (specifically Roy and Garth). However, I did love the Wally / Linda scenes, and now that you mention it, I can see the clear influence of Waid on Abnett with the resolution.
I’ll say that as the series has gone on, it’s gotten a little better for me. Still not a series I love, but one I haven’t considered dropping.
Suicide Squad Vol. 1: The Black Vault is one I wasn't going to pick up based on word of mouth. I ended up getting it as part of a package deal, so I read it anyway. The Squad is put together to find and confiscate a mysterious weapon of mass destruction from a Russian underwater prison. In the process, they meet a similar team to oppose them and discover that the WMD is more than they ever imagined. It seems the story was tailored to allow artist Jim Lee to complete on schedule, originally serialized as lead stories with solo character back-ups by other artists. So the lead, titular main story is, like, 50-60 pages maybe. I guess you can say it's not decompressed, at least, but it's kinda light for a headliner of a TPB. The characterization is not all that compelling, and the story/mission is not exactly complex. It's pretty much an actioner with an obligatory (though shocking) death. And a plot device in the form of an inside character is introduced who pretty much singlehandedly saves the day. Just not a read that lives up even close to the foundation that John Ostrander laid for great Suicide Squad stories decades ago. Maybe that's unfair, but it's the angle I come into this from. Plus, Jim lee on art ain't what he used to be. It's clear that he either did mostly rough pencils to allow his army of embellishers to finish because he just can't produce, or his style just isn't all that timeless. And I'll say it: Harley Quinn and her supposed and ill-defined skill-set just doesn't fit in with the rest of the group. The back-ups are better stories overall, but they don't save this trade from being any more than a mediocre package overall. I'd have to hear high recommendations about the subsequent stories to give Vol. 2 a go.
Your overview pretty much mirrors my own. The opening arc wasn’t really much in substance or story though I guess the idea of Lee doing the popular, ‘fresh out of the cinema’ characters was the appeal. Since Lee has left, the series has improved, though it still is more style over substance, even when my favorite JR Jr. stopped in for a few issues.
By now I’ve grown a little more accustomed to Harley, and that is helped by some great moments for her (finally) in the last few issues. Still, it definitely wasn’t enough to keep going with her solo series, which is the only Rebirth series I pulled the trigger on and cancelled. Unfortunately, at this point Harley is the official face of the Suicide Squad and will be going forward. I think for anyone to start to really like the Squad again, they’ll have to get on board with that.
I think the problem is Suicide Squad is no longer the Ostrander “thinking fans” black ops series it once was. Now it’s more along the lines of a summer blockbuster / X-Force meets James Bond / high octane art style type series. Which is fine if it gets a solid fanbase, but its not what you (and I) are really hoping for. Still, one hopes over time they can bring more Ostrander type elements (pacing, plotting, spycraft, complexity) back into the series.
Deathstroke Vol. 1: The Professional is one of those Rebirth collections I've been chomping at the bit to get to because of the high recommendations here and among various professionals--plus I'm a big fan of what I feel is Christopher Priest's masterwork to date, his run on Black Panther.The fact that Slade isn't exactly a character I gravitate toward was not a concern because Priest did wonders with T'Challa, and I had no previous affinity for that character either. Priest, when he's at the top of his game, writes dense, smart stories that bring out the essence of the characters he writes, and that's exactly what he does here. Slade is pretty much the enigmatic, cool-as-cucumber bad-ass he's always been, but the supporting cast brings depth and context to the enigma (much as was done with T'Challa). Priest's scripts demand your full attention because every single detail is there for a reason which will be revealed or called back when you don't expect it and shows that everything is part of the greater design. It can be frustrating if you're used to your comics being light reads almost entirely driven by action pieces, but if you want depth and nuance in your funny books, Deathstroke is for you. The action and characterization is laced with a mixture of politics, conspiracy with a healthy dose of flashbacks to paint current events with some needed context. Plus, Slade matches wits with Batman and Damien in a way that is refreshingly unexpected, emphasizing tactics and psychology over the physical. The art, which is primarily pencilled by Joe Bennett and Carlos Pagulayan is very clear, dynamic and expressiveand blends in well between their issues and the other artists. I also like that it is pencil-and-ink, rather than the pencils-to-colors that is so prolific these days. This book needs grit, and pencil-to-ink serves that well. Biggest drawback is that DC made the inexplicable decision to hold off on the final 2 chapters of this arc until the next trade. It's frustrating because the story is now artificially incomplete, and many of the Rebirth trades contain what would have been the necessary 8 issues to complete the story; this one has 6. I can only presume that the next arc isn't long enough, so DC decided to leave those issues to make that one fuller. So the content is excellent but frustratingly incomplete which keeps this trade from being the best it could be.
I couldn’t wait for you to read Deathstroke because I knew you’d love it. Priest is at his best and I can say the series only gets better and better as it goes to the point where its one of the best comics out there right now. I have no idea why they cut the story off short in the trades though, and that sounds like a stupid editing decision. I can only shrug. I know that #11 is my favorite of the series so far and one of the best single issues of the last year, and from #12 onwards Priest takes it up even another notch. Just damn good writing and the artwork has been fantastic too.
Batgirl Vol. 1: Beyond Burnside ended up being the best of this batch and is another in the feather of the Bat-Office's cap, which has yet to disappoint me. Despite the title, writer Hope Larson continues the great work that Stewart, Fletcher and Tarr started with their popular revamp of the character that directly preceded this run. The main difference is that Barbara is on a kind of sabbatical to Japan, China and other nearby countries to kind of give herself a break and pursue the legend of an Asian heroine called Fruit Bat, who'd been active many decades earlier. Along the way, she runs into a new love interest who she knows from her childhood in Chicago and gets caught up in both his shady dealings and a larger crime ring that deals in some very unusual product--something that is refreshingly different and specific to a foreign culture. Larson uses Barbara brilliantly in a way that distinguishes this as a Batgirl story and not just one that's interchangeable for any other hero to star in. She wisely features what is distinctive about her from the other Bat-characters--not her fighting style or gadgets but her photographic memory--which features heavily in the story's resolution. And just like in the prior run, Barbara is not infallible; she makes some mistakes and takes her share of lumps. But she perseveres in the end, and you are both entertained and enlightened in the process. You're with her all the way and privy to all her hopes, fears and foibles. I've never read Hope Larson's work before to my knowledge, but this is a more-than-excellent first impression. The sole artist throughout the story is Rafael Albuquerque. He's an artist I've loved on Vertigo's American Vampire, but it's a revelation that his artwork transitions so well from a horror book to a light superhero book. Along with Liam Sharpe on Wonder Woman, his is the best work to grace any Rebirth book to date. Instead of finding some Babs Tarr copycat, a wise decision was made to bring in Rafael to truly usher in a new chapter in Barbara Gordon's life. While I don't think he continues beyond this arc, I'm really glad he chose to take the assignment. He won't be pidgeon-holed into just a certain type of book, for sure. Really, a delightful but far from simplistic book!
This was another one I couldn’t wait for you to read. Our boy Alburquerque really makes his mark here and does exactly as you say: show he’s not pigeonholed to one genre and can kick ass on just about everything. I love the way the brighter super-hero colors make his art ‘pop’, which is apparent throughout this opening arc.
You do a great job at showing what makes Babs so unique character-wise, and how the focus on that here really makes the series work. She stands apart from the rest of the Bat-universe (and DCU in general). She’s also one of the most likable DC characters and you can’t help but root for her, especially when she’s made an error or is not feeling confident.
So, 2 awesomesauce and 2 ‘meh’! I can’t wait for you to read Cyborg and GA Vol 2, which I think you’re really going to love. Hellblazer V1 was also great and B&BOP is solid.
My guess on the Deathstroke trade is that they knew they were going to have to have a clean break for the crossover with the Titans books, and the trade length was set to make that happen. I can see how that would be frustrating.
I read the first couple of issues of Batgirl, and I thought it was decent, but I couldn't really figure out what the book was. Does she continue traveling the world? Aside from the obvious love interest, are any of the characters she meets ongoing cast members, or is each story going to basically just carry over those two characters? It felt perfectly enjoyable, but with nothing for me to grasp onto to pull me forward. It doesn't help that I still miss Oracle, and tend to resent Barbara being turned back into one of the many interchangeable Bat-derivatives runnning around these days, no matter how well written she is.
I read the first couple of issues of Batgirl, and I thought it was decent, but I couldn't really figure out what the book was. Does she continue traveling the world? Aside from the obvious love interest, are any of the characters she meets ongoing cast members, or is each story going to basically just carry over those two characters? It felt perfectly enjoyable, but with nothing for me to grasp onto to pull me forward. It doesn't help that I still miss Oracle, and tend to resent Barbara being turned back into one of the many interchangeable Bat-derivatives runnning around these days, no matter how well written she is.
I think Barbara is FAR from interchangeable with the rest of the Bat-cast. If anything, beginning with Stewart, Fletcher and Tarr, they've found a way to really distinguish her and make her stand out from the rest. Gail Simone made us miss Oracle by keeping things grim and making her just another member of the Bat-family. But the Burnside era, now continued by Hope Larson, makes me feel more like taking her out of the wheelchair was worthwhile after all. At first, it seems out of character to lighten her up and let her be a little more like other people her age, but ultimately to me, it feels refreshing and ultimately true to the character.
Now, I can't speak firsthand about what happens beyond the story in the trade, but it certainly seems she hasn't really left Burnside behind. In fact, she's on a plane ride back (where action ensues) to Burnside at the end of the trade. But she ends up having a really cool adventure involving some unexpected contraband coveted for an unusual reason that felt absolutely worth the read. I don't know if any of the friends and foes she makes on the adventure (maybe not even the love interest) will follow her back to her presumed return to Burnside, but if they don't, it won't make that opening arc any less worthwhile for me. It was a fun, revelatory adventure that explored Barbara's character very well in the process. Whatever happens/happened next, I'm eager to see what Hope Larson does next!
As always, I love reading your reviews of the Rebirth trades!
Y'know, I don't mean to sound egotistical about this, but I'm pretty proud of how I review these Rebirth trades and trades in general. I go light on spoilers, but I think I give a pretty good indication of how I view their quality with some decent info to back it up. So, thanks!
I’m glad that you enjoyed this—in fact, I think you ended up enjoying it a lot more than I did. And that might be because as a monthly, it was hard to stay focused on the good Wally West moments of the series and not get bogged down by the ‘meh’ presentation of the rest of the Titans. I felt that even their interactions with one another left a lot to be desired (specifically Roy and Garth). However, I did love the Wally / Linda scenes, and now that you mention it, I can see the clear influence of Waid on Abnett with the resolution.
I’ll say that as the series has gone on, it’s gotten a little better for me. Still not a series I love, but one I haven’t considered dropping.
I think reading experiences via trade and via floppies can vary wildly. I'm not even saying that trade-reading is always better because I think the opposite can be true as well. Wonder Woman, for example, seems better reading as floppies from our contrasting views of it.
It's interesting that you don't love Titans but aren't close to dropping it. I don't continually buy any monthlies that I don't really love and think that they are rewarding to read in that format. It's my big rule these days, though that was hardly the case as recently as a year or two ago and especially in my prior decades of comics reading.
Your overview pretty much mirrors my own. The opening arc wasn’t really much in substance or story though I guess the idea of Lee doing the popular, ‘fresh out of the cinema’ characters was the appeal. Since Lee has left, the series has improved, though it still is more style over substance, even when my favorite JR Jr. stopped in for a few issues.
By now I’ve grown a little more accustomed to Harley, and that is helped by some great moments for her (finally) in the last few issues. Still, it definitely wasn’t enough to keep going with her solo series, which is the only Rebirth series I pulled the trigger on and cancelled. Unfortunately, at this point Harley is the official face of the Suicide Squad and will be going forward. I think for anyone to start to really like the Squad again, they’ll have to get on board with that.
I think the problem is Suicide Squad is no longer the Ostrander “thinking fans” black ops series it once was. Now it’s more along the lines of a summer blockbuster / X-Force meets James Bond / high octane art style type series. Which is fine if it gets a solid fanbase, but its not what you (and I) are really hoping for. Still, one hopes over time they can bring more Ostrander type elements (pacing, plotting, spycraft, complexity) back into the series.
It's not only not anything like what Ostrander built NOW, but I don't think it's been anything like it since the series officially returned during the New 52. It's a shame, really.
With Harley, it's not exactly a disdain for the character but that I haven't seen anything that shows me what she contributes to the group that makes her a necessary part of it. The only answer I've seen is that she's wildly popular with fans and sells the books. That's not enough for me. As much as i enjoyed Margo Robbie as her in the film, I was left with the same question and answer as a couple of sentences ago.
I couldn’t wait for you to read Deathstroke because I knew you’d love it. Priest is at his best and I can say the series only gets better and better as it goes to the point where its one of the best comics out there right now. I have no idea why they cut the story off short in the trades though, and that sounds like a stupid editing decision. I can only shrug. I know that #11 is my favorite of the series so far and one of the best single issues of the last year, and from #12 onwards Priest takes it up even another notch. Just damn good writing and the artwork has been fantastic too.
It's really good to see Priest back and doing his best work once again. I was struck, writing the above review, by the similarities between his work on Deathstroke and Black Panther as I kept trying not to mention it overly much in the review. But it still would have been unfair to overly emphasize the similarities because there's no doubt that there are huge differences between the characters and their situations and what they do. Hell, I think I may have to read BP in the next coupla years!
This was another one I couldn’t wait for you to read. Our boy Alburquerque really makes his mark here and does exactly as you say: show he’s not pigeonholed to one genre and can kick ass on just about everything. I love the way the brighter super-hero colors make his art ‘pop’, which is apparent throughout this opening arc.
You do a great job at showing what makes Babs so unique character-wise, and how the focus on that here really makes the series work. She stands apart from the rest of the Bat-universe (and DCU in general). She’s also one of the most likable DC characters and you can’t help but root for her, especially when she’s made an error or is not feeling confident.
Indeed! I hope you'll chime in on BFOB's concerns and my reply in the prior posts. I wouldn't mind some mild spoilers regarding the direction the book takes after the Asian adventure. More or less Burnside? Supporting characters? Kai or no Kai, etc?
So, 2 awesomesauce and 2 ‘meh’! I can’t wait for you to read Cyborg and GA Vol 2, which I think you’re really going to love. Hellblazer V1 was also great and B&BOP is solid.
If you look at my chart, 10 of 16 reviewed are guaranteed continuation by me, so far, and all but JL have at least a 50/50 chance. I've already bought WW Vol. 2 to see what Nicola did, and I'll definitely get 1 more Action Comics. Hal and Titans have a better chance than the Squad.
Really in love with New Super-Man. And I can't even recall what it was that made me not finish the first issue back in the day. I wasn't too sure about the inclusion on either I-Ching or Ching Lung, but the twist in the most recent issue I've read at least makes me want to know more. I would be interested to know how the book has been received in China. I wrote a long-ish bit here about a Chinese-American writing a series in China, and compared it to Christopher Priest writing a series in Africa, and how it's in one sense their culture, but in another they are an American looking at it from outside. But it wandered and didn't land, and I feel like that summary got my thoughts across at least as well as my ramble would have. Three issues until I'm caught up.
If 14 months ago you told me I would have a week of 6 books and they were all DC and no Marvel or Image, I would have... well, said something skeptical. I don't know what. But here we are! I just said I haven't caught up New Super-Man yet, and I haven't done Wonder Woman yet, so the 4 books I did read:
Action 983 - I caught up with this series just in time to read this book new. The early installments of this story were a little 90s-retro for my tastes. Not that I disliked that era, just that I'm a little weary of nostalgia. Jurgens has done a pretty good job so far of bringing back the feel of "his" Lois and Clark without making it feel like a nostalgia book, so that was disheartening. Fortunately, as General Zod, Lois and Jon have moved to the center of the story that feeling has gone away and I'm liking it more and more. Watching Cyborg Superman go from Big Bad to lackey was a fun journey.
Bug #3 - I never read the Atlas story (Wikipedia tells me there was only the one), so I didn't enjoy this one QUITE as much as the previous two, but I still liked it a whole lot. The devlopments at the end of the issue suggest that a genuine plot is beginning to form, so I hope he's able to pull off an ending that satisfies as a narrative while still being the kind of zany fun explosion the book has been so far. ETA: the serpent people in this story somehow blurred into the serpent cult currently lurking in Astro City, and I got VERY confused for a second.
The Flash #26 - Another great issue. For all of Reverse Flash's psychoanalysis, Barry made his point for him much better by running off from Iris, making a decision for her without even hearing her out. The book could be more right that Barry Allen's greatest enemy is The Flash. I've never been much of a fan of Howard Porter, and I missed Digiandomenico a lot. But rotating art is just going to be a thing on a twice-monthly book, so I'm going to roll with it.
Titans #13 - This book continues being exactly what it has been, bless its heart. It's nice to see Gnaark again. I hope the old Titans still float around even if Abnett is keeping the core team smaller. Hawk and Dove don't appear to be claimed by anyone at this point. Have we seen or heard of Mr. Jupiter in this revival?
At this point Wally and Lilith seem to be the characters we as the audience see into the most. It makes a certain degree of sense. Wally is the biggest star in the book who doesn't already have his own series, and Lilith comes with the least baggage. I found myself thinking that Wally, the man whose wife forgot him, and Karen, the woman who forgot her husband, might mike a more interesting pair than Wally and Donna. Then we had that scene of Roy and Karen watching Wally and Donna, and it made me wonder if Abnett is thinking along the same lines. Still, I find W&D more interesting than another go-round for Roy and Donna. Not that I'm opposed to that pairing, but if they do revisit it, it needs to be earned, not just slipped into because it's familiar and easy. Last but not least, I'm finding the traitor story interesting. Most of my guesses are based on meta-analysis, not in-story clues. It's Garth because Lilith trusted him! It's Dick because he broke the information and immediately pointed fingers at the one person we know it can't be! Most of all, I'm intrigued because this is a small, tight team. There are no disposable members. Any of these characters being a traitor really would rock the team to the core. (Well, maybe not Karen.) Which probably just means it's going to be one of those things where the "traitor" will wind up being a traitor in a way that lets them stay on the team. But I'm holding out hope that there's something more interesting at the back of it than the way Nightwing "betrayed" the team in the crossover.
And, closing off with a question. I read Red Hood and the Outlaws Rebirth. I have to admit I'm not a huge Jason Todd fan. I'm mostly interested in this book for Artemis, and the "funhouse mirror image of the Trinity" concept. Considering the title and that the first issue was a Jason Todd solo issue, am I going to get enough of what I'm looking for if I keep going? Or is this going to be a Jason Todd book with Artemis and Bizarro as supporting characters?
Last night I caught up on the fantastic New Super-Man and dug into Red Hood and the Outlaws. After reading a second Red Hood solo issue, I was delighted to get to Artemis. She has great chemistry with Jason, finally making me feel like he was more than the emo to Batman's goth. I've gotten through issue 4, and I'm really grooving on it now. I'm not sure where it's going after this arc, but I'm interested to find out. It's hard to believe this is the same writer who gave us goldfish Starfire. Well, I always did like his 90s X-Men work, flaws and all.
I also read the first arc of Green Arrow. I'm not the world's biggest GA fan, but I enjoyed it. I'm more of a Black Canary person. I have appreciated their relationship in the past, and I realize that he kept her from limbo during some years when she could have easily gone the way of, say, Zatanna. But it feels like maybe she's outgrown it and come into her own in the last 20 years. Then again, I started feeling that way after they retconned Ollie into a cheating ass, so maybe this clean slate is what they need to win me back over. I knew there would be some TV influence, but it was not as bad as it might have been. I also suspect some of it is inherited from the New 52. Although after 3 years of Arrow, I am more than ready to never see that damn island again. This had better not last long.
Going back to a few thoughts on Batgirl: I agree wholeheartedly that Babs is from interchangeable from the rest of the Bat-cast. In fact that is the #1 driving force of why the series (and the prior Fletcher / Tarr series) has been so good: they've gone out of their way to show why a Babs Batgirl is a different, great addition to the DCU that fills a gap we didn't realize was missing.
BFOB, you may not know this but I was PISSED when Babs was de-Oraclized and made Batgirl again. I really hated the idea and I hated Simone's initial launch of the DCnU series. For all the reasons you were turned off. But when Fletcher and Tarr came in and introduced Burnside, the series suddenly shifted into something quite different. Batgirl suddenly became the young adult hero of this generation, much like Spider-Man, the Teen Titans and others have done in the past.
To give some limited spoilers on where Batgirl goes next, the entire next arc is about reestablishing Burnside and her personal life, and I have enjoyed it quite a bit. Supporting cast members, new and old, get some screen time, and she gets a great new villain. Kai has not yet reappeared but I can't help but feel they'll be bringing him back. I think they probably wanted to get the Burnside setting firmly in view before they bring in Kai of someone else to mix things up with Babs' personal life.
Few other comments / replies:
You both do some great reviews and I appreciate them!
With Titans, I don't love it but you are right, I'm not thinking of dropping it. I guess I just see so much potential there that I hope they can take advantage of, and plus I get to have my monthly Wally West fix. That alone gives me some level of enjoyment. So while it's not one I recommend on quality, I do get some pleasure out of keeping it around.
BFOB, glad you stuck sigh RH&O. And you've seen, all 3 get an equal amount of time over the issues, and the dynamic between is really fantastic!
Also, agree on New Super-Man, which I'm also enjoying.
As I read a bunch of Rebirth issues over the weekend, I noticed that while the top tier series continue to deliver, a lot of the series that we're "good" but still finding their voice early on have now really come into their own.
Somewhere along the way, Hal Jordan & the GLC has become a fantastic series. The art by Van Scrier definitely helps, but overall it's awesome ongoing usage and characterization of the huge cast. Hal, Guy, Kyle, John, Soranik, Kilowog, and a few others (like Arkillo, surprisingly) have all shined in recent issues. Making sure to show other Lanterns, and good use of guest stars like Space Cabbie and Rip Hunter, have been great. HJ&GLC is a great counter balance to GLs, which has been excellent for some time.
Another series that has surprisingly won me over is Teen Titans. The latest issue, in which Jasckon (new Aqualad) gets a chance to shine, was great, and the creative team is doing great work with Kid Flash, Raven and Robin too. It feels like the series is starting to get its identity and footing now. I say "surprisingly" because I had all but written the series off. Now if they can somehow reconcile Starfire's presence given her age difference, I'd be really pleased.
I think the key here is consistency. The creators are secure that DC is committed to them and these series and they are working with confidence that they don't need marketing ploys or hype, and can just tell their stories.
As I read a bunch of Rebirth issues over the weekend, I noticed that while the top tier series continue to deliver, a lot of the series that we're "good" but still finding their voice early on have now really come into their own.
Somewhere along the way, Hal Jordan & the GLC has become a fantastic series. The art by Van Scrier definitely helps, but overall it's awesome ongoing usage and characterization of the huge cast. Hal, Guy, Kyle, John, Soranik, Kilowog, and a few others (like Arkillo, surprisingly) have all shined in recent issues. Making sure to show other Lanterns, and good use of guest stars like Space Cabbie and Rip Hunter, have been great. HJ&GLC is a great counter balance to GLs, which has been excellent for some time.
Well, I think this officially green-lights Hal/GLC Vol. 2 for me, which had kind of been in limbo!
Another series that has surprisingly won me over is Teen Titans. The latest issue, in which Jasckon (new Aqualad) gets a chance to shine, was great, and the creative team is doing great work with Kid Flash, Raven and Robin too. It feels like the series is starting to get its identity and footing now. I say "surprisingly" because I had all but written the series off. Now if they can somehow reconcile Starfire's presence given her age difference, I'd be really pleased.
I think the key here is consistency. The creators are secure that DC is committed to them and these series and they are working with confidence that they don't need marketing ploys or hype, and can just tell their stories.
Wow, that's a curveball! I had decided to give Teen Titans a hard pass based on everything I'd read about it, here and elsewhere. Now....what to do?!?!
Cobie, I think you said in the past that you were enjoying Batman Beyond. Am I remembering that right? If so, is it still true/
Yeah, I'm actually loving it. I came into it on a whim since I was trying everything else, as I've never collected it before and never watched a single episode of it back in the day. So while I knew the general concept, I was a total stranger to the Batman Beyond franchise. Both art and writing have been on point, and there is just some good superhero storytelling going on here. Terry and the whole supporting cast are very engaging, and the villains are a nice blend of future sci-fi and Batman connections.
Also--yes, Teen Titans has surprised me. It's gone from kind of weak to pretty good and continues to improve. I'm at least very curious to see how the next arc's worth of issues stack up when all is said and done.
The October solicits are out, and aside from all the Metal/Dark Multiverse stuff (which I'm inclined to skip), there's a new Neal Adam's Deadman series (Written and Drawn)!
*And* Sean Gordon Murphy's Batman: White Knight! As one of the best creators in the industry, his stuff is a must buy!
Deadman by Adams also is a must-buy for me.
Ragman I'll also probably give a try.
I read a bunch of comics last night that are about 2-3 weeks old and I couldn't help but notice something: both Green Lantern titles are really damn enjoyable. Green Lanterns, though starring two characters I didn't care about, quickly became a series that I loved and that has only gotten stronger as time has gone on. The characterization of Jessica and Simon is among the best in comics over this last year and writer Sam Humphries (himself someone I've kind of ignored) has proven himself to be fantastic at building multi-layered, deep relationships. Meanwhile, Hal Jordan & GLC took a lot longer to come into its own but over the last few months has really stepped things up. At this point, I'm just enjoying the series immensely, even with the huge cast which includes the Big 4 Earth GLs and the whole rest of the Corps (not to mention the Sinestro Corps). This is the first time since about the mid-Johns run that I'm loving all things GL at the moment.
I should also mention that I also read the latest Flash, which I loved. There is a great mix of subplots / supporting cast and main plots / villains here, as Flash remains consistently good.
Lastly, I caught up the last two issues of Batman Beyond and I'm again shocked at how much I'm enjoying this series. The latest story, which features a surprise villain is just one of those awesome "of course!" ideas that once someone proposed it, it had to be written.
I read a bunch of comics last night that are about 2-3 weeks old and I couldn't help but notice something: both Green Lantern titles are really damn enjoyable. Green Lanterns, though starring two characters I didn't care about, quickly became a series that I loved and that has only gotten stronger as time has gone on. The characterization of Jessica and Simon is among the best in comics over this last year and writer Sam Humphries (himself someone I've kind of ignored) has proven himself to be fantastic at building multi-layered, deep relationships.
I guess there's bad news. Humphries will be leaving the book very soon. Tim Seeley's a decent replacement, but it's hard not to be a little worried.
(Good to see a post from you, btw! I've been posting this Time War tie-in on Bits that you might find interesting....)
Yeah, I was saddened to hear Humphries is leaving, especially because I feel he's come into his own. I'm loving Seeley's current work on Nightwing, so he's an exciting replacement, but I do worry the transition won't be smooth. It took me a good while to start to love Jessica and Simon--I don't want that discarded, dammit!
(And thanks! Life has been so hectic, mostly because of work. I hope that is going to change in the next 30 days with some serious decision-making. I hadn't seen you were writing something LMB related! That's awesome! I'll check out when I get some time!)
If it's any consolation, Humphries has said he's leaving because DC has given him something too good to pass up and he couldn't do both, so it's obviously something he's passionate about.
I read a bunch of comics last night that are about 2-3 weeks old and I couldn't help but notice something: both Green Lantern titles are really damn enjoyable. Green Lanterns, though starring two characters I didn't care about, quickly became a series that I loved and that has only gotten stronger as time has gone on. The characterization of Jessica and Simon is among the best in comics over this last year and writer Sam Humphries (himself someone I've kind of ignored) has proven himself to be fantastic at building multi-layered, deep relationships. Meanwhile, Hal Jordan & GLC took a lot longer to come into its own but over the last few months has really stepped things up. At this point, I'm just enjoying the series immensely, even with the huge cast which includes the Big 4 Earth GLs and the whole rest of the Corps (not to mention the Sinestro Corps). This is the first time since about the mid-Johns run that I'm loving all things GL at the moment.
There are some Rebirth titles I'm doing by trade - mostly on your recommendation. I do pick up Green Lanterns, but I'm curious about the Hal Jordan book. When should I start? I know you had mentioned it started weak
I've now either caught up on or dropped all of my Rebirth 2.0 experiment's titles, except for Green Arrow which I enjoy in small doses and will continue catching up on gradually. Here are the books that I am currently reading:
Action
Aquaman
Cyborg
Deathstroke
Green Arrow
New Super-Man
Red Hood and the Outlaws
Super Sons
Superman
The Flash
Teen Titans
Titans
Wonder Woman (provisionally, depending on what I think of Robinson's tenure)
I'm not sure to what degree Mister Miracle qualifies as a Rebirth title, but since it doesn't have the banner I didn't name it.
A little over half of those were added in this second round. This is the most DC books I have read in longer than I can remember, especially when you add in all the various titles that DC publishes outside of Rebirth. Between all of this and my equally huge Image list, I think I may feel a list contraction coming on, but we'll see what happens. At least Marvel are generously keeping books that interest me to a minimum.
My list has settled into:
Action
Superman
Super Sons
Nightwing
Suicide Squad
Trinity
I read a bunch of comics last night that are about 2-3 weeks old and I couldn't help but notice something: both Green Lantern titles are really damn enjoyable. Green Lanterns, though starring two characters I didn't care about, quickly became a series that I loved and that has only gotten stronger as time has gone on. The characterization of Jessica and Simon is among the best in comics over this last year and writer Sam Humphries (himself someone I've kind of ignored) has proven himself to be fantastic at building multi-layered, deep relationships. Meanwhile, Hal Jordan & GLC took a lot longer to come into its own but over the last few months has really stepped things up. At this point, I'm just enjoying the series immensely, even with the huge cast which includes the Big 4 Earth GLs and the whole rest of the Corps (not to mention the Sinestro Corps). This is the first time since about the mid-Johns run that I'm loving all things GL at the moment.
There are some Rebirth titles I'm doing by trade - mostly on your recommendation. I do pick up Green Lanterns, but I'm curious about the Hal Jordan book. When should I start? I know you had mentioned it started weak
Andy, I appreciate the endorsement of my recommendations! Thanks! For the H&GLC series, what I would say is that the first two trades, which makes up the first 13 issues, are pretty good and lay out all the background for the series. A lot of it is getting the various characters synced up. But its really with #14, the start of the third trade, where the series gets good. So you may choose to get the first two trades for all the background, or you could skip ahead to trade #3 and I think you'll enjoy the trades going forward from there.
In terms of the 'will I need all the backstory to understand what is going on' question, I honestly think anyone could jump in at any time and not be overwhelmed by what's going on--you'll figure that out pretty quickly. #1 actually started the same way, with me trying to figure out what happened before the series even started...so it's not like #14 is any less of a clean start than #1.
Amazingly, I've continued to collect and enjoy all of the Rebirth titles except for Harley Quinn and Superwoman. HQ just wasn't my cup of tea but I know lots of people enjoy it. So really only Superwoman was the one that wasn't working.
Like the Hal & GLC series referenced above, several other series that started weaker for me have gotten more enjoyable and that includes both Teen Titans and Titans. Neither is perfect by any stretch but there is still a lot to enjoy about both.
Hellblazer's second story lingered a little long but I thought was a good read when reading several issues at once. I'm anxious to see what Tim Seeley has in store next.
Suicide Squad has become an enjoyable, high-octane series.
Blue Beetle still has issues but I find myself looking forward to it each month so they must be doing something right.
Supergirl I've struggled with, but as I've mentioned before, I think its simply that I'm not the target audience. And that is okay with me. I'm glad it exists and there isn't anything inherently bad about it.
Justice League by Bryan Hitch is probably the weakest DC series I'm still collecting. I believe he's leaving soon so I hope whomever takes over can make that the flagship series it deserves to be.
Most the other series I flat-out love.
I've really lost track with what I'm picking and not picking up from DC at this point. I've been so busy the last few weeks I haven't really focused on them.
Digitally, I pick up (in order of enjoyment):
Detective Comics
Nightwing
Batman
Mister Miracle (again, does this count?)
Deathstroke
Green Lanterns
Batwoman
Birds of Prey
[BIG GAP IN ENJOYMENT - so these could be chopping block...]
Suicide Squad
New Super-Man
Wonder Woman
Justice League of America
Titans
Cyborg
Superwoman
Trades, I pick up:
Aquaman
Flash
Green Arrow
All-Star Batman
I'm picking up METAL in the store because I get more out of reading the hard copy.
It's been well over a month since I read the latest batch of Rebirth trades, but I've been so busy, it's been hard to find the time to do my traditional write-ups of them.Well, wait no more, compadres! Let's do this!
Cyborg Vol. 1: The Imitation of Life was among those Rebirth launches I was unsure about getting until one Cobalt Kid started trumpeting its virtues and made it more of a priority for me. And I'm glad he did! Cyborg was a big surprise, especially for its plot hook and for its deft characterization. The series opens with a central question that it will seek to answer: Is Cyborg simply an enhanced Victor Stone, or is he really an A.I. that thinks he's Victor Stone? Victor's dad fears the latter and has gone to great lengths to conceal this possibility from Cyborg. However, Victor quickly learns of this as he is put thru a series of confrontations with a mysterious foe who is bringing together a number of rogue A.I.'s. I like this hook a lot. On the surface, it seems like a knock-off of Alan Moore's "Anatomy Lesson" with Swamp Thing, but the answers are less straightforward here and the possible ramifications more of a slow build. In fact, we don't get the answer in this trade as this is clearly a larger arc in the series. There are larger thematic implications that one can easily apply to real life and make this something a little more than just a superhero tale. But you can have themes and gravitas up the yin-yang, and it could all go south without involving characters. Writer John Semper, Jr. does not fall into this trap. He does a great job of making the primary characters, Vic, his dad Silas and friend/love interest Sarah, into involving 3-dimensional characters we care about. I especially love the flashbacks to their past that pepper the stories. The art is also great, especially the first few issues by industry vet Paul Pelletier. I really look forward to continuing with Victor on his journey to find himself in future volumes!
The Hellblazer Vol. 1: The Poison Truth was another "bubble" Rebirth book for me, but there was enough good word of mouth to at least give it a shot. Now, I've dipped into the adventures of our Mr. Constantine a number of times over the course of his long original Vertigo (and pre-Vertigo) run, but this was my first since he'd been taken into the mainstream. Overall, he's a character who has only appealed to me if the right writer can make him work for me. In this trade, writer Simon Oliver checks off a lot of Constantine standards--a reunion with old friend Chas, shady dealings in the London underworld, John pulling off a trademark con or two, run-ins with supernatural creatures, enough references to make it clear his most known past failure is still canon, a vague encroaching threat and even a guest-starring role from Swamp Thing. John and Chas were certainly in character, and the art, primarily by Moritat, is evocative and suitable. But....well, it was just okay. The trade itself was an unsatisfying read; I just kind of got bored after a while. I can only manage that would have been multiplied for me I had been waiting a month between issues. I mean, the pacing is not all that different from the old Hellblazer stories being in this style, but I guess it just exemplifies why I never really stuck with that book over the long-term and just dinked and dunked around creators irregularly. Basically, this book meanders and checks on 2 or 3 sets of characters each issue without giving me any real "wow" moments. And if you're asking me to continue on, I need more than what I'm getting. So I doubt I'll continue on to the next volume.
Batgirl and the Birds of Prey Vol. 1: Who Is Oracle? is one I was already likely going to try regardless and definitely would have after the pleasure the first (solo) Batgirl Rebirth book was to read. I came in slightly apprehensive, though, because it's been a while since I read a BoP book. The last time was the post-Brightest Day relaunch by Gail Simone, and that one left a bad taste in my mouth. But THIS one--THIS is a true "rebirth"! To be truthful, it started off a little clunky the first couple of issues, but then, you can just see everything coming together and the writers growing more and more comfortable with the cast. The premise here is that the BoP existed before as Barb and Dinah. Barb was Oracle, during the time she was wheelchair-bound, and Dinah was her field operative as Black Canary. Barb has asked Dinah to reunite with her for one last case. It seems there's a new Oracle on the scene, one who is besmirching her good name by using their abilities to assist the bad guys in the same way Barb used to help the good guys. Barb wants to find out who the new Oracle is and take down the criminals Oracle is helping run rampant around Gotham. Along the way, they cross paths with Huntress and become uneasy allies in pursuit of a common goal. The key word here is "chemistry", folks! Writers Julie and Shawna Benson dial in on the characters of Barb, Dinah and Helena and just make it an absolute JOY to read their dialogue as they tease one another and trade great quips. As with the solo Batgirl book, I think this one benefits tremendously from having female writers who write believable female characters and make their dialogue feel fresh and unlike anything that some dude might come up with on his basement word processor. And the story is not just a yuk-fest--the Benson's interweave some very revealing backstory each issue for their leads in the form of some great flashbacks, and the plot itself leads to some satisfying reveals for both the new Oracle and the villain behind the Birds' travails. This was just a great book that I hope can keep the momentum going into future volumes--because I will definitely be there!
Green Arrow Vol. 2: Island of Scars is the first of the Rebirth trades of which I have read the second installment. I liked a lot of things about the first volume but was a little hesitant about the darkness in the story and art. Happily, Vol. 2 addresses those concerns in a satisfying manner, and all of the things I liked about the first, particularly the character interactions and just the overall authenticity and trueness of the characters themselves, were still intact. Volume 2 picks up where we left off last time with a bit of a cliffhanger that left our characters scattered. The first two issues within follow Ollie's half-sister Emi, who has been spirited away to Japan by her mother Shado and who now faces a similar fate as her mother as an assassin for the Yakuza. Emi wants nothing to do with it and looks for a way to win hers and her mother's freedom. Along the way, we get a flashback to an adventure she had with Olly that illuminates their developing relationship. Then, the meat of the trade deals with Dinah, Ollie and Diggle being marooned on an island that is more than it appears. This leads to a confrontation and then a high-octane, high-speed adventure that is both exciting and a lot of fun. But I like that, before it gets to the action, the book takes some time to explore Ollie and Dinah's developing relationship. There are some very steamy scenes coupled with some revealing dialogue and narration that highlight why they make sense together and what their challenges might be. It helps make Dinah and Ollie an interesting and believable couple and one I want to read more about. You don't always have to be into Batman as a super-interesting character underneath his cowl to enjoy his book, but I think this is essential to Oliver Queen and his cast to make them and the book work. Mission accomplished! I love Ollie done right, and this is definitely that! Plus, the art by Stephen Byrne, Juan Ferreyra and Otto Schmidt, all using a similar style, has grown on me, especially as they have shown more growth and breadth to what they can do than what I thought the could do in the first volume.
Let's update the big board, shall we?
Best of the Best--WANT MORE NOW!!!
Aquaman
Flash
Awesomesauce!!
Batman
Detective Comics
Batgirl
Deathstroke
Batgirl and the Birds of Prey
Green Arrow Vol. 2
Really Good, Will Def Continue!
Green Arrow Vol. 1
Superman
Green Lanterns
Nightwing
Cyborg
meh. May or may not continue
Wonder Woman
Action Comics
Hal Jordan and the GLC
Titans
Suicide Squad
Hellblazer
Where's the Incinerator?
Justice League
Wow! It sure seems the Bat-books can do no wrong, eh? I have yet to run into a clunker from that corner of DC! Overall, Rebirth continues to look very good in general.
I've said this before, but next up for me are mostly Vol. 2's....
Superman Vol. 2
Aquaman Vol. 2
Batman Vol. 2
All-Star Batman Vol. 1
Looking forward to them!!!
Love your continued reviews of Rebirth!
I'm so glad you got Cyborg and even more glad that you liked it! Sales are not great and that's a shame because I feel people dismiss it without giving it a real chance. IMO, it's damn good superhero comics with its own Sci-fi niche (robotics) and damn great characters. There are more to come, including one great one that becomes Cyborg's non-super sidekick of sorts, whom I really like.
I can relate on Hellblazer--many arcs over the years never grabbed me, which is why I never consistently bought it. I liked the first arc, especially as I'm a fan of Moritat. For some reason the second arc just didn't do it for me though. The latest, a 3 parter by Seeley, is off to a great start. I actually wouldn't mind if arcs rotated with creators along the lines of the old Legends of the Dark Knight. The different creative voices might give the series a little extra juice.
Also glad you liked B&BOP. The characterization and interactions continue to be fantastic, and the series remains a good one. I've had my complaints--art and length of arcs being two of them--but there's a lot to love here. All 3 major characters are incredibly different and likable in their own way.
Lastly, I'm thrilled you agree that the art in GA v2 is more to your liking. I had thought this would be the case but I'm glad to hear it. I have a feeling it was a common complaint. I love the second arc in this trade with Ollie, Dinah and Diggle making their way back to Seattle, which was high octane fun. The series remains one of my favorites and has only gotten better IMO. 30 or so issues in, and it's shaping up to the best Green Arrow run in 25 years.
Love your continued reviews of Rebirth!
And
I love how they bring you out of hiding!
I'm so glad you got Cyborg and even more glad that you liked it! Sales are not great and that's a shame because I feel people dismiss it without giving it a real chance. IMO, it's damn good superhero comics with its own Sci-fi niche (robotics) and damn great characters. There are more to come, including one great one that becomes Cyborg's non-super sidekick of sorts, whom I really like.
Looking forward to the next trade, which I will be purchasing very soon!
Sad to hear that it's low in the sales department. But, as has been pointed out, DC has been very patient with books like Blue Beetle, so there's hope. Plus, maybe Cyborg will get more attention after the upcoming JL movie, which will hopefully not suck!
I can relate on Hellblazer--many arcs over the years never grabbed me, which is why I never consistently bought it. I liked the first arc, especially as I'm a fan of Moritat. For some reason the second arc just didn't do it for me though. The latest, a 3 parter by Seeley, is off to a great start. I actually wouldn't mind if arcs rotated with creators along the lines of the old Legends of the Dark Knight. The different creative voices might give the series a little extra juice.
I think a Constantine book has got to be one of the more difficult ones to do. To make it really swim, you can't sacrifice the subtlety of the concept and character, but you also run the risk of it being dreadfully dull. The first Hellblazers I ever read was Garth Ennis' run, and that, my friend, is a hard one to measure up to! I mean"Dangerous Habits" alone....
Also glad you liked B&BOP. The characterization and interactions continue to be fantastic, and the series remains a good one. I've had my complaints--art and length of arcs being two of them--but there's a lot to love here. All 3 major characters are incredibly different and likable in their own way.
It sounds a
little bit like I like B&BoP more than you do. Some of this may be due to you having read more of it than I have. But based on the first trade of each, I think it's even better than Batgirl's solo book's first trade, which is also excellent. I think the Bensons give Dixon and the good Simone stuff a run for their money with their take.
Lastly, I'm thrilled you agree that the art in GA v2 is more to your liking. I had thought this would be the case but I'm glad to hear it. I have a feeling it was a common complaint. I love the second arc in this trade with Ollie, Dinah and Diggle making their way back to Seattle, which was high octane fun. The series remains one of my favorites and has only gotten better IMO. 30 or so issues in, and it's shaping up to the best Green Arrow run in 25 years.
Glad to hear it! Especially because--drumroll, please--I've decided to start picking up Green Arrow as single issues, starting immediately after the issues collected in the third trade! In fact, I picked up all the issues today! This is a big step for me, as you well know!
BTW, I've also decided to buy both Batman and Flash as singles as well! I decided recently to dip my toes back in with Rebirth due to my overall satisfaction with its direction and to my pull also diminishing recently with several series I get either ended or soon ending. I didn't want to get any more $3.99 books (I'm also getting Mr. Miracle), even though a few of them (Deathstroke, Aquaman, B&BoP, etc.) were among my favorites. For the time being, I'll limit myself to these three as singles and keep with the others as trades for the foreseeable future until I feel less timid about taking another leap.
So, basically, Rebirth has been a tremendous success for this lapsed reader!
Other people have said this before, but Titans does get better. It took some time to find it's stride.
Is Super Sons on your to-read list somewhere? I think it's probably my fav Rebirth title.
He's going to need an extra copy of the trade so he can do unspeakable things to the first one that will render it unreadable... He's gonna love it that hard!
Oh, I'm most definitely getting that trade when it finally comes out next month!
Something else else I neglected to mention in my above reviews: Black Canary, between her roles in B&BoP and Green Arrow, is emerging as a standout Rebirth star in my opinion. Her presence and characterization in both books is key to the success of both. I absolutely love what they are doing with her, and I think she's as good or even better than she's ever been!
I'm curious, now, about her series in latter-day New 52 and whether I should check those trades out because I want MORE Dinah!
^ I absolutely agree with that statement! Dinah has been a superstar in Rebirth so far and she is written brilliantly in both series. Both sets of creators have found a way to make her interact with other characters (Ollie & crew or the BOP) and have her be a very human, multi-layered character, yet look incredibly strong in each series. Love it!
Heartily recommend Super-Sons as well, a contender for my favorite series!
I hope you're right on Cyborg and his coming prolific run on the big screen. All the right pieces are there for the series to be a runaway success and I hope you're right that DC will have the patience to see it through.
Love your continued reviews of Rebirth!
And
I love how they bring you out of hiding!
Yeah, I like that too
Also glad you liked B&BOP. The characterization and interactions continue to be fantastic, and the series remains a good one. I've had my complaints--art and length of arcs being two of them--but there's a lot to love here. All 3 major characters are incredibly different and likable in their own way.
It sounds a
little bit like I like B&BoP more than you do. Some of this may be due to you having read more of it than I have. But based on the first trade of each, I think it's even better than Batgirl's solo book's first trade, which is also excellent. I think the Bensons give Dixon and the good Simone stuff a run for their money with their take.
I would agree with that statement. For me, the Batgirl solo series definitely is the one I’m enjoying more. But, as you can tell, I still like B&BOP quite a bit! Enough to classify it firmly in the category of series that I’m hugely enthusiastic about. So we’re similar in that we both really like both series, probably because we’re both awesome, but the subtle differences in our preferences have us diverge on which one is better. Or, as you say, it might be because I’m ahead of you and reading monthly.
Lastly, I'm thrilled you agree that the art in GA v2 is more to your liking. I had thought this would be the case but I'm glad to hear it. I have a feeling it was a common complaint. I love the second arc in this trade with Ollie, Dinah and Diggle making their way back to Seattle, which was high octane fun. The series remains one of my favorites and has only gotten better IMO. 30 or so issues in, and it's shaping up to the best Green Arrow run in 25 years.
Glad to hear it! Especially because--drumroll, please--I've decided to start picking up Green Arrow as single issues, starting immediately after the issues collected in the third trade! In fact, I picked up all the issues today! This is a big step for me, as you well know!
BTW, I've also decided to buy both Batman and Flash as singles as well! I decided recently to dip my toes back in with Rebirth due to my overall satisfaction with its direction and to my pull also diminishing recently with several series I get either ended or soon ending. I didn't want to get any more $3.99 books (I'm also getting Mr. Miracle), even though a few of them (Deathstroke, Aquaman, B&BoP, etc.) were among my favorites. For the time being, I'll limit myself to these three as singles and keep with the others as trades for the foreseeable future until I feel less timid about taking another leap.
So, basically, Rebirth has been a tremendous success for this lapsed reader!
I love that you’re going to make the foray back to single issues for DC Rebirth! I think that says a whole hell of a lot because you were definitely content with making the switch to trades only (for DC). The monthly / bi-weekly "buzz" in buying them off the rack is a good one, and it's fun to go into the comic store again. In that regard, I think DC is really delivering.
Rebirth has definitely been a success for many lapsed readers, including both of us and a bunch of others on this board. And it came at a time I think we all desperately needed it!
I had never even considered the rest of the Young Justice crew might be MIA with Tim. That would fantastic!
Some really interesting developments regarding at least one YJ character (and the Rebirth status of the team) in this week's Detective issue.
Future Tim has left Conner's Titans and the rift between Tim and the rest of the team seems insurmountable. In order to rectify this, future Tim tells his younger self to forgive Conner, to which the younger Tim replies "who?". This sets up the Batman of the Future arc where Future Tim both realises that time's been altered, and that he can alter it further.
The Superman books are starting to lose me. Between fill-ins on both titles, event tie-ins, and some awful message comics in Superman, there have been quite a few books that I have skipped or wished I had. Hopefully once we push through the Mr. Oz stuff, there will be a refocusing. At least the Imperious Lex storyline sounds promising. Other than that, my list is the same as the last one I posted above.
Looking at the latest sales numbers, I guess I better start the pre-grieving process for Cyborg and New Super-Man. Everything else I read seem to be at least in the "on the bubble" zone.
I decided at the last minute not to carry on with the James Robinson WW. He's a writer I've never liked as much as I wish I did, and I was honestly just not feeling that enthused, and didn't want to waste time on a book I was likely to subconsciously sabotage anyway. But I will keep my ears up, and if I hear good enough things about it from quarters I respect, I will give it another go.
Other than that, I continue to like/love all my other Rebirth titles. I've been thinking about giving Detective another go. It was probably the toughest call I made in my drops. But again, I'll probably wait for the Mr. Oz event cycle to settle first. Diving back in with an issue sure to push my event-fatigue and continuity wallowing buttons would be pointless.
I think I can officially say Rebirth has lost me. I wasn't able to keep track of the titles I was buying when I began working at Yankee Stadium. I was too busy with that and the comic store, and dealing with Baltimore Comic Con, NYCC, and the writing for Super-Bloggers and Point Horror and Endangered Bodies.
But ever since my schedule slowed down again, I simply haven't had the interest to go back to the books I was following from Rebirth. Batgirl, Titans, Superwoman, even Batwoman by Marguerite Bennett. The only one I've held onto is still New Super-Man. Wonder Woman I, of course, dropped when Robinson began writing and have become increasingly determined NOT to support it because I want nothing to do with that garbage plot thread about her having a twin brother., and the fact that's he bringing Vanessa Kapatelis back just for a rehash of her Silver Swan arc makes me hate the man even more. Titans slowly lost me with and now with the reveal of the evil Donna Troy I don't want to go near it. I stuck with Rebirth because I was hoping to see more of the real DCU, but nothing to my true satisfaction. It's still all just being forced into the mold the New 52 created and I'm sick of it.
I don't care what Johns does with Watchmen or Dr. Manhattan, kill them all and be done with it. I've never cared about Doctor Oz. None of this Dark Matter stuff interests me and I would've LOVED to read Terrifics if Tom Strong is involved, but if there's a Legion link I don't want to go near this. I'm sick of waiting to see when they're going to bring back more of the pre-Flashpoint DCU, but when they do it just gets ruined. I want Linda Danvers and Lian Harper and the real Duela Dent. I want Cass Cain and Stephanie Brown to be included whenever they do stories about Bruce's kids and not just the Robins.
I wish DC had never brought Barry Allen back and I hate Grant Morrison and Geoff Johns for doing it.
I have mixed feelings about Christopher Priest taking over Justice League. On the one hand, I love Priest and will give just about anything he writes a shot, even if I'm dubious. But he described it as "heroes in the real world," a tag I thought we left in the 90's were it belongs. I'm not sure I'm down for another round of "the public distrust these godlike beings floating above humanity." I'm also a little dubious about "The Fan," a character who knows every detail about the League and uses their own weaknesses against them "for their own good." Sounds suspiciously Superboy-Prime to me. There are plenty of aspects of fandom that need to be addressed, but too often when creators do it, it comes off as them looking down on fans that are beneath them. I can get on board with "we need to reform our community," if it's done well. "You losers need to get your shit together" is a much harder sell.
On the mutant third hand, his first arc begins with Batman making a mistake, possibly the most shocking and innovative new Batman concept in the last 20 years.
And like I said, I like Priest enough to give him the benefit of the doubt and try it out even if I'm not sure it's for me. Especially since it seems to be fulfilling his career-long dream of sitting at the adult table and handling the A-list properties.
I haven't grabbed this week's Flash yet. I've been avoiding the Metal tie ins, but the previous issue ended on a pretty important cliffhanger. Is it picked up in this issue, or can I safely wait for the crossover to pass?
You can pick up Flash #33 it has nothing to do with Metal.
And on another topic, I've officially dropped Titans because I do NOT need this crap with Donna Troy in my life right now.
I just picked up the most recent Titans. It's pretty bad
Also I was unimpressed with the second trade collection of Batgirl. It's too young for me
I mean, damn it Abnett I trusted you!
Element Lad says "hi", Sarky
Very sad, but not exactly shocking given the sales. At least his big epic got to wrap up well.
Yeah Cyborg has been one of those books that I have been pleasantly surprised by - nothing spectacular but steady quality
That's a real shame. It's been consistently great, both writing and art. It was both superhero fun, but also a nice sub-niche carved out among the all encompassing superhero genre. As I've said before, it reminded me of 80's Firestorm and Blue Devil and 90's Ray for carving out its own place among the icons in the DC schedule.
It's also a shame because it has been IMO the best person-of-color driven solo title of this era. Able to stand on his own, rather than in the shadow of a former hero who shared the same identity, Cyborg was wholly his own thing.
This sucks. Not sure what else DC could have done to make this work.
Thought on the ethics of Doomsday Clock?
http://comicsbulletin.com/case-doomsday-clock-part-one-history/While the author is a little strident (some would say evangelical) in his denunciation, he does raise a good point. I safely ignored the entirety of "Before Watchmen" as I saw it as a blatant cash grab and disrespect towards Moore and Gibbons. Does the fact that Doomsday Clock ties into a story I'm invested in (Rebirth), really make it all that much different in the end?
It has long been my opinion that "Creator's Rights" are a fantasy, and "Business Ethics" is an oxymoron.
"Isn't that what lawyers are supposed to do? Something else else illegal legally!" -- Paula Prentiss, "He and She"
Not judging anyone else who decides the issue for themselves, but I have stayed away from every attempt to exploit watchmen or V for vendetta, both comics and film. For whatever reason I'm not bothered about John Constantine, probably because more himself has not shown much interest in the creation.
I've been saying this since last week, but the fact that Johns spent a year building up a sequel to Watchmen nobody asked for or wanted just because it would absolve Barry Allen of being responsible for the New 52 when the company finally decided it was a mistake, says kind of a LOT about him.
Okay! So I read these about 2 months ago, but here's my belated reviews of my last batch of Rebirth trades!!!
Superman Vol. 2: Trials of the Super Son is actually made up of four smaller stories: a done-in-one featuring Lois, Clark and Jon enjoying a county fair with Clark trying to keep a no super-powers promise, a 2-parter with Clark and Jon having an adventure in the Land That Time Forgot, a 2-parter that serves as a backdoor pilot for Super Sons and a 2-parter guest-starring Frankenstein. These smaller stories are just what the doctor ordered following what I felt was a drawn-out Eradicator story in volume one and enabled the book to focus on its strength, which is the core family dynamic. Clark and Jon get a lot of father-son development on Dinosaur Island, and Lois gets lots of room to shine in the Frankenstein story. Jon's co-starring role with Damian Wayne in the middle is delightful and full of humor. It serves as the perfect trailer for what I've heard is a delightful Super Sons book that I look forward to reading. Patrick Gleason and Doug Mahnke are some of the very best in DC's artistic line-up, so this book is a guaranteed visual treat. Basically, the stories in this volume, while not exactly unforgettable, are exactly what I want this title to be, and they hopefully signify more greatness to come.
Aquaman Vol. 2: Black Manta Rising was eagerly-awaited by this reader as the first volume of this book (along with the Flash) earned my highest praise in Rebirth to this point. I was a little wary at first because the first two issues within feature a Doomsday-like threat in the form of a classic JLA villain whom I wasn't all that eager to see. But after that, the story just rockets and delivers on more of the characterization, imagination and suspense that hooked me so well in the prior volume. As the trade's title implies, Black Manta is back where we last saw him, wielding more power behind the scenes than we've ever seen him do in traditional slugfests. He's using his resources to manipulate the U.S. into a war with Atlantis. In the middle is Aquaman, with ties to both but King to one, trying to avert catastrophe and expose the truth before it's too late. It's a powerful tale that works so well, as the first volume did, because the real-world parallels make the story resonate. But on top of that is the way writer Dan Abnett deepens our understanding of Atlantean culture on the way, using Mera's outsider viewpoint under the plot point of having to prove herself worthy and accepted in her betrothal to Arthur. The supporting cast also gets enriched a lot, which makes the book so well-rounded and every aspect enjoyable. In the end we get a satisfying conclusion to the Black Manta main plot, but we are left with plenty of build-up to more major plots to come as well as this one's aftermath. And the art by Scot eaton, Brad walker and Phillippe Briones is always excellent, bright and evocative. It's still one of the best of Rebirth's best!
Batman Vol. 2: I Am Suicide is another good effort by Tom King to take Batman in his own unique direction. This is something hard to do with a character with as much mileage as Bruce Wayne, but there's some slivers of originality there. Mainly, King is humanizing Bruce somewhat more than most ever do. There's an emotionally vulnerable side of him, one that pretty much admits that he considered suicide in his younger years. And a side that is particularly soft toward Selina Kyle, that is less willing to be alone. The bulk of the story within involves Batman infiltrating Bane's fortress with his own makeshift Suicide Squad, each memeber chosen for a specific purpose and the objective a very personal one to help a member of the Bat-family. I think the worst part of this trade is that basically every development in these stories is spoiled all over the internet. This is clearly Rebirth's flagship book, so all of the surprises within weren't really surprises because articles popped up with every issue. I can blame myself for clicking, of course, but MAN are the spoilers pervasive for this book! Anyhow, that's no fault of the book itself; it's very well done, and, as I said, has found its own niche for Batman that is appealing and features Mikel Janin as the latest in a line of good to great Batman artists. I've always personally liked Bruce and Selina together, so that is also a big plus. I'd say this is about on par with volume one overall, and it's earned my recent transition to individual issues, which may also help with the spoiler problem.
All-Star Batman Vol. 1: My Own Worst Enemy is Scott Snyder and John Romita, Jr. giving readers a non-stop thrillride in which they throw in everything AND the kitchen sink. At times the plot feels kind of implausible, but it definitely achieves its objectives to surprise and thrill. I think what makes this book more than just a ride on the crazy train is that Snyder has a take on classic villain Two-Face that feels unique without contradicting what has gone before. It really works and gives the story some backbone which will hopefully inform future Two-Face stories. It also heavily features new Bat supporting character Duke Thomas in a memorable role. He also gets his own back-up feature which gives some much-needed back-story. Overall, this feels stronger than Snyder's New 52 Batman stuff, which went off the rails so much that I dropped it and contributed to my overall disenfranchisement with DC and the New 52 and caused me to drop it until Rebirth brought me back. Fun book and good to see Romita Jr. drawing it.
Finally, since I'd had the earliest single issues after this trade and wanted to read a few months of singles afterwards, I skipped ahead and read Green Arrow Vol. 3: Emerald Outlaw, and I'm really glad I did! His reputation in Seattle already hurting from the events of the series to date, Green Arrow faces an even greater threat as a mysterious figure who is also using bow and arrows is framing him by wounding or killing a number of people he has either saved or he's had opposition from. Green Arrow is an outlaw, and that is making it very hard to clear his name. As I type this, it sounds like a pretty generic plot, but it is all in the execution and the crafting of story and character. Basically, volume 1 was good but flawed, volume 2 was a marked improvement and this one is where the book totally finds its groove and feels like it's the book it really should be. It is now like an almost perfect fusion of what is best about the Arrow TV show and what was best about the activist character before the New 52 along with its own original elements that writer Ben Percy brings. It is now pretty much the Green Arrow book I've always wanted but never quite got (sometimes not even close!) in previous incarnations. Even while having a tense story, the book still feels fun all the while, which is quite an accomplishment. And as I've mentioned before, Black Canary is one of Rebirth's brightest stars, and she really shines here (as she does in Birds of Prey) as a bonafide co-star. And Otto Schmidt and Juan Ferreyra have really won me over as the book's unconventional artists. I don't know if my love for this book is completely objective, but I've always had a soft spot for DC's archer that this book really serves well!
Let's update my rankings!
Best of the Best--WANT MORE NOW!!!
Aquaman Vols. 1 & 2
Flash
Green Arrow Vol. 3
Awesomesauce!!
Batman Vols. 1 & 2
Detective Comics
Batgirl
Deathstroke
Batgirl and the Birds of Prey
Green Arrow Vol. 2
Superman Vol. 2
Really Good, Will Def Continue!
Green Arrow Vol. 1
Superman
Green Lanterns
Nightwing
Cyborg
All-Star Batman
meh. May or may not continue
Wonder Woman
Action Comics
Hal Jordan and the GLC
Titans
Suicide Squad
Hellblazer
Where's the Incinerator?
Justice League
So this is the best preformance YET in a Rebirth review batch! Normally, by now, you'd think there'd be some natural backlash/newness wearing off, but if you look at the books I put in the upper tiers to date, it's hard to argue anything but overwhelming success!
Coming soon....
Action Comics Vol. 2
Wonder Woman Vol. 2
Red Hood & the Outlaws Vol. 1
Green Lanterns Vol. 2
Now, this may be one that gravitates to lower tiers, based on my lukewarm reviews of the first volumes of Action and WW and my indifference toward Red Hood. Of these, Green lanterns is the one I'd have the most inherent enthusiasm for. But I've heard Action gets better and Nicola Scott's WW arc is exceptional. And there's been good word-of-mouth on Red Hood, plus an overall high quality from the Bat-books to date. So this may be a real dark horse of a batch. We'll see.....
I know that last issue, the events of titans caused some people here to throw in the towel. I don't know if it will make a difference, but that storyline is 100 percent resolved in this week's issue. In fact, all of the current outstanding plot lines are wrapped up. I actually had to double check that dan abnett is still writing the book going forward. It could easily have served as a final issue of his run.
Just saw a headline saying "DC To Replace All Damaged Supergirl #16 Copies."
Don't get too excited. It turns out DC is NOT changing the title of the book to All-Damaged Supergirl.
Just saw a headline saying "DC To Replace All Damaged Supergirl #16 Copies."
Don't get too excited. It turns out DC is NOT changing the title of the book to All-Damaged Supergirl.
Guess they figure we've had enough of angsty heroes.
WHY is it damaged though?
Anyone looking for their YJ fix, the "Super Sons of Tomorrow" crossover will have the adult versions of Conner, Cassie and Bart traveling back to the present day (where they don't currently exist).
Just saw a headline saying "DC To Replace All Damaged Supergirl #16 Copies."
Don't get too excited. It turns out DC is NOT changing the title of the book to All-Damaged Supergirl.
That would be the saddest book EVER. Even more morose than a MORRISSEY Batman
Just saw a headline saying "DC To Replace All Damaged Supergirl #16 Copies."
Don't get too excited. It turns out DC is NOT changing the title of the book to All-Damaged Supergirl.
In the Bizarro-verse, All-Damaged Supergirl wasn't selling as well as The Legion of Sprocked-up Heroes.
But neither held a candle to The Doomed Patrol, which remains at the high point of a twenty-five year domination of the genre, with sub-titles including the New Doomed, Doom-Force and Doom-Factor!
I broke my Black Canary ban to get JLA last week. It has Aztek and I needs me some more Aztek.
Wow so they're gonna be introducing PROMETHEA in JLA in a few weeks, and apparently J.H. Williams is pissed off because no one asked him or Moore permission or ran it by either of them beforehand.
Who has been asking for non-Moore and Williams Promethea? Let's be honest, who has even been asking for more WITH them?
Well it looks like DC's trying to incorporate the ABC characters in the main DCU. The Strong Family in the Terrifics and what not.
I think they're trying to set her up as a foil to the Queen of Fables.
I just have to shake my head and chuckle.
Now, what I'd like to see is for all the overrated sacred-cow Vertigo stuff that hasn't yet been brought into the DCU get that treatment.
For instance, I'd love to see Lyta Hall, back in her Fury costume, back to her old self, kicking Morpheus in the unmentionables.
You mean because she was his patsy in his overly convoluted plan to stage his own death?
I'm getting Doomsday Clock and I like a few things about it, Gary Frank, seeing Ozymandias have to interact with people ... and the Mime is creepy.
This might be the only DC comic I am getting.
For some positive news, even though I myself am not a fan, DC is uncancelling Cyborg in April with Marv Wolfman as writer. The book's going to #21.
You mean because she was his patsy in his overly convoluted plan to stage his own death?
LOL
More because of all the crimes he committed -- home invasion, threats, intimidation, and, oh yeah, killing Lyta's husband. But, what you said too.
And don't anybody give me that BS about the Endless (or, as I call them, The Interminable) being above the laws of mere mortals. They're just like any other dysfunctional family of sick, messed-up people misusing powers that they don't deserve to have, and if they have such an influence over mortal affairs, well then, I *blame* them for the sorry state the world has gotten into over the past 30 years. So there.
No yeah, look, I won't commission Desire because they raped Unity Kinkaid.
I have an entire list of characters I won't commission because they've raped or molested someone. Thank God I didn't have to add Roy Harper because of "Outlaws" #1 only because Starfire offered first.
I have an entire list of characters I won't commission because they've raped or molested someone.
It is really sad that you can have that list. And none of us are particularly surprised
As for Rebirth ... I've hit a wall. I'll still pick up trades but I find the individual issues less compelling. So my list has shrunk to Nightwing, Deathstroke, Cyborg, New Super-Man and Doomsday Clock.
The really frustrating thing is a lot of them *coughcoughScarletWitchcoughcough* have never been punished for it either.
[quote=As for Rebirth ... I've hit a wall. I'll still pick up trades but I find the individual issues less compelling. So my list has shrunk to Nightwing, Deathstroke, Cyborg, New Super-Man and Doomsday Clock.
[/quote]
It feels like most titles are biding time until the conclusion of Doomsday Clock, which now has a two month gap between issues 3 and 4, and from issue 4 on will be published every other month, meaning the wheel-spinning will last even longer.
The only book I'm still supporting is New Super-Man
Big surprise, Metal turned out to be a complete waste of time that had nothing new or interesting to say except to throw out a bunch of Batman redesigns.
I thought the lynchpin to the whole thing was Nth metal and bringing Hawkman back post-Rebirth...? Just conjecture on my part, as I haven't read anything Metal unless it (needlessly) tied into any of my books...
It feels like most titles are biding time until the conclusion of Doomsday Clock, which now has a two month gap between issues 3 and 4, and from issue 4 on will be published every other month, meaning the wheel-spinning will last even longer.
Oh that's a good point
That would make sense ... even though it makes the current books a bit uninteresting
Spoilers?
Big surprise, Metal turned out to be a complete waste of time that had nothing new or interesting to say except to throw out a bunch of Batman redesigns.
LOL is anyone surprised?
Metal is only worth it if you love Capullo art. If you do, it's glorious. If you're looking for an awesome plot, Snyder's DC stuff ain't the place to find it.
I got Hawkman number 1! I liked it! I like Hitch's art.
This incarnation of Hawkman is trying to discover his previous lives to piece together the puzzle of an impending doom. Madame Xanadu guest stars. He is an archaeologist.
I was missing Shayera a lot! Especially since this Hawkman seems a lot like Katar Hol of the Silver Age but is not a Thanagarian cop.
this Hawkman reincarnates across space and time so its an effort at tying in the Thanagrian Hawkmen with the Earth ones, basically they all existed I think, and a ton more it looks like. I think its an ok effort. OH ANOTHER COOL THING ... Hawkman's wings retract ... so simple and convenient ... its 2018 the wings get an upgrade!
A couple criticisms, I wish there was an old and recognizable (or rebooted version) Hawkman villain in the first issue, even just for fun, and the I liked the writer's (Venditti (sp)) dialogue very much but thought the issue was a bit slow plot wise. There was a generic villain in the first issue, it kinda ties into the plot but would've been more fun with a familiar face.
I've picked up Hal Jordan and the GL Corps by Venditti. in issue 10 so far. I'm really liking it! I love seeing many long-time background Lanterns in the crowd shots, and ones like Rot Lop Fan and Tomar-Tu getting a chance to shine.
Soranik Natu leading a bunch of "reformed" (?) Yellows to salvage the Sinestro Corps legacy is interesting too.
And Ganthet and Sayd, my favorite little blue people.
I feel like it’s a fun and respectful take on the Corps. Too bad it only goes up to issue 50. But it will make for a good weekend marathon
Do not buy Heroes In Crisis.
They've killed off Wally West and managed to completely undermine the whole point of Rebirth
Someone posted that on tumblr. I had to warn you guys.
Thanks, Sarky.
Between that and the "shocking plot twist" in Doomsday Clock #7 --
Turns out Ozymandias was faking his illness all along. Oh, Johns, you rascal, you.
-- this is the perfect time for people to say, "ENOUGH," and stop giving DC their money.
Well that's one way to describe, Johns.
I'm surprised they didn't bring Ted Kord back to life to kill *him*!
Tongue-in-cheek
article about how the five main characters should just have died in Heroes in Crisis too, to save them the embarrassment of appearing in the story.
if they had all died, then the comic would be over and we could all move on from this sad attempt at making an emotional impact by brutally murdering a bunch of beloved heroes in a super-mega-crossover event whose impact will just be undone in the next super-mega-crossover event.
Note: there may be some spoilers in the article too, read at your own risk.
The main character is a time traveler, so I'll believe any of the ramifications when I see them stick at the end of the series, but I do agree that DC did not need a tonal successor to Identity Crisis right now (or ever).
Yeah. I just realized I'm so jaded by retcons and reboots that I'm not even considering the idea that all these heroes are dead for good. Not until the story is finished, anyway.
Also: this is about mental health, right? What if it's all in someone's mind, all a bad dream, all a fantasy?
In fact, I'm most worried about the poor waitress in the diner. Gee, I hope she's okay!
The main character is a time traveler, so I'll believe any of the ramifications when I see them stick at the end of the series, but I do agree that DC did not need a tonal successor to Identity Crisis right now (or ever).
Ten to one it turns out Booster goes back in time to try and stop it from happening, then it turns out he really was the cause.
And then he kills himself in front of the Trinity.
Or most likely Ted Kord.
Some thoughts someone had to share about why the Arsenal retcon in this story is demeaning garbage, and Tom King should be ashamed of himself.
http://taperwolf.tumblr.com/post/178500995800/the-last-time-we-saw-roy-he-told-jason-he-was
Wasn't going to buy it anyway, but I question the need to kill off known/big-name characters for the purpose of the story. If it's a murder mystery, they could have had a few unknown-to-readers characters killed. This just seems to annoy people more than create emotional impact.
One corpse opening a series isn't enough anymore. Watchmen, that JSA series at Sandman's funeral... old, old, old. Cape carnage is what's needed! Apparently.
From what I've heard the plot is two characters have a fight that doesn't reflect their powers and the big three visit a farm. And the reader gets a free telegram telling them who's responsible.
Considering that
Booster Gold has a forcefield, while Harley has NO powers,
yeah, the fight in issue 1 was really dumb
Wasn't going to buy it anyway, but I question the need to kill off known/big-name characters for the purpose of the story. If it's a murder mystery, they could have had a few unknown-to-readers characters killed. This just seems to annoy people more than create emotional impact.
It does seem like the main characters' motivations (big 3's mourning, Harley and Booster's confusion) could have been achieved just as well by killing off a bunch of heroes specially-created FOR this series! So far everyone dead is a relatively well-established hero, who have been around long enough to earn their share of fans.
I don't have the strength to say anything, but I am still so angry because things refuse to change in all this time.
I don't have the strength to say anything, but I am still so angry because things refuse to change in all this time.
DC don't seem to be able to get out of the narrowest version of one of your favourites.
I AM NOT
I.
I'm talking about ALL the characters.
I don't get too worked up about deaths any more, since the revolving door revolves faster all the time. But I am upset by one of the deaths, because there was so much unresolved baggage around his recent appearances, and they pretty clearly have no intention of resolving it. Who know what his setup will look like when he returns.
OTOH, Tom King has earned my trust at least enough to keep an open mind about the story itself. He's not a perfect writer, so I'm not CERTAIN I will love the final result, but I'm willing to see how things go.
I'm calling it right now. Linda Danvers is gonna be one of the victims at some point in this mess. Because we know Didio and Johns completely hate her just because she's not Kara, and this gives them the excuse of foisting her death on somebody else's pen.
If not her than probably Dorothy Spinner, who'll talk about how her first period traumatized her in a way that somehow mocks Rachel Pollack's Doom Patrol run. Or most likely Kate Godwin who'll be degraded into a stereotype of trans characters. Who else wants to take bets on characters that're probably dying? Anyone? Anyone?
Maybe Kid Eternity? Or Nightshade? One of the Amazing Men? Maxine Hunkel? There'll probably be one of the New Bloods, DC LOVES killing them off. Except for Hitman, of course. Oh! Maybe the reason Cass Sandsmark disappeared will be revealed really, really soon!
On a recent visit to the local comics shop, I noticed that the issue with more issues available of it than anything else was the first issue of this one. By quite a margin. I guess they expect higher sales. And I guess that, even though it’s been out for a while, they will go in the end.
I couldn’t help but take a peek…
The opening scene in a diner made me think it had been lifted from Planetary.
That poor diner was trashed and the “hero” let that happen just to make the scene grounded or some nonsense. Poor business owner.
Booster Gold doesn’t know how his powers work after all this time. Generally, the fight strained credibility throughout.
The interview segments were a lot less forced over in the first issue of West Coast Avengers, also out at the same time.
BIG ONE: How did they all fit inside that farmhouse? Does it have lots of hidden levels? There are loads of dedded people around. They were all recently using a bathroom or a fridge. Where did they all fit?
Even in a quick skim, the premise of the “Big Three” setting up the sanctuary is laughably ponderous and self-indulgent (“redemption” Oh dear). Of course super heroes can’t just get the support that other people get. Even secret identities doesn’t really stand up as a reason. See other navel gazing JLA concepts. Leaving them all with their costumes may not have been a great therapeutic idea either.
It reminds me of the Kent’s farm which may be the idea.
Again, it was a quick read but I didn’t get the feeling that there was a huge amount going on under the surface of the cast.
Not being a DCU reader for a while, I’m just aware of the seemingly huge number of retcons/reboots etc so this could all be time travelled/rebooted away. Although, I didn’t get the feeling, by the arbitrary body count, and interviews, that there was a lot of care for some of the cast.
So, a prolonged fight and a first peek at some cape carnage padded out with some interview pages. I hope Bats does a better job investigating this crime scene than he did in the dreadful Identity Crisis.
I can't believe I was wrong about Cass.
For those who haven't been reading Heroes in Crisis (which is totally understandable), the third issue makes it kind of really obvious whose fault it is this happened.
Wally West.
See, Sanctuary uses these virtual reality chambers where patients relive their traumas to deal with them (which is an incredibly stupid thing to do) and Wally's been creating holograms of Linda Park and their kids. Which is a special kind of frustrating because, instead of Barry and Iris offering to help Wally look for his missing kids or restore Linda's memories like Iris's memories were fixed, they were fine with shipping him off to Sanctuary so he would shut up. After spending about two weeks in Sanctuary, Wally apparently tried to do something with the computer in what's implied to be an attempt to get Irey and Jai back for real. Somehow the computer totally freaked out and killed everyone except Wally, Booster Gold, and Harley Quinn. Wally found Roy Harper's dead body, held Roy and sobbed he just didn't want to be alone before Harley killed Wally.
With these rumors about Wally being in the new Suicide Squad, it's implied this will be his punishment or attempt at atonement ala Speedball's time as Penance during Civil War.
It is staggering how far Dan Didio will go out of his way to try and destroy Wally's character in any way possible.
This is genuinely disturbing.
It turns out DC planned to bring Eric Esquivel into the current Nightwing title, to share writing duty with Scott Lobdell. This was exposed due to the leaks for the March 2019 solicits, which have been delayed. The leaks occurred a few days after Esquivel, writer for Vertigo's Border Town, was facing sexual assault allegations from several women, mainly toy designer Cynthia Naugle.
It's kind of really disgusting to think, remembering Lobdell also has a reputation for sexually harassing women, that two completely different men who've committed such acts were going to be working together on the same comic featuring a character who has been a victim of sexual abuse himself.
Can I ask just what the HELL is going on in this company?