Why? Because there's no threads about the classic Arnold Drake/Bruno Premiani version, the wildly inventive if uneven Grant Morrison version, or the daring and controversial/the ideas may have been better than the execution Rachel Pollack version. Or, for that matter, the Paul Kupperberg version immediately before Morrison's that started out with Steve Lightle on art and some real promise, but quickly went off the rails.

So here you go, fellow DP fans. Now let's post away!

Rataplan rataplan rrrrrrr...

P.S. Almost forgot -- the Gerard Way DP revival is coming our way soon! Yay!

As Danny the Street would say, "Bona to vada, Sarky."

My first thought on this is a letter column back in the Morrison run. It had just got a new editor in Mark Waid. This would have been right around the time of the TMK run/ Superman editorial spat that saw him leave that book.

Someone had written in and suggested Clayface as a reformed villain member of the team. Now bear in mind that hero teams are full of such characters, and that Clayface (sort of like the Brotherhood's Plasmus) could be just the sort of traumatised, outsider character to get some mileage out of in DP.

New editor's reply: Hey- why not Signalman and the Cluemaster, as well? Get with the program, Charles.

I thought that was the reply of an utter tool. Way to get readers to be enthusiastic about the book.

Waid does tend to put his foot in his mouth. It seems to me like there's good editors who are bad writers, and good writers who are bad editors. Waid would certainly appear to be the latter.

Here's a brief but fruitful DP discussion that Fat Cramer and I had in the Random Review thread several years ago:

http://www.legionworld.net/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=503023#Post503023

I have mostly changed my negative views on Morrison's run since I made those posts.

And I just perused this old DP thread about the 2009-2011 version. Lots of Lash goodness there. *sniff*

http://www.legionworld.net/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=494814&page=1

Looking forward to posting on this one Fickles. Thanks for setting it up. I've not dug out the old '60s DP issues in ages.

You're very welcome, Thoth.

And for newcomers curious about the Doom Patrol, the Morrison run is getting the double-sized trade treatment. Volume One came out just a few weeks ago. I'm hoping that, just as the JLA reprints went beyond the Morrison run, then maybe the Pollack run will be reprinted at long last.

Doom Patrol was one of those groups I developed an interest in as I was moving out of my DC niche. My interest in them as not as indepth as the Titans, Legion, or JSA when I was younger. It extended solely to the Celsius iteration of the team, but not into the Blaze/Lodestone/Karma era.

And it was Teen Titans that really did it. In that issue when the Titans fought Superboy-Prime and suddenly the DP remembered their past, my attention was fully hooked by that double page spread.

Celsius was, IMO, a tragically wasted character. An interesting, complicated, non-stereotypical South Asian character for a change, and she gets unceremoniously killed off. So wrong...

Celsius, Dorothy, Coagula, Alice, Ava, Fever, Kid Slick, Nudge, Grunt, they all were.

I keep reading some nonsense about how Rachel Pollack tried to retcon Crazy Jane's time with the team through the False Memory issue, but I have no idea where anyone's picking that up.

My favorite DP story ever is the journey thru Crazy Jane's mind conducted by her personality of Driver 8. This is easily one of my favorite Morrison stories, if not one of my overall favorite stories ever.

IMO, Morrison's run crested around the Brother of DaDa story. It got kind of dodgy after that. In any case I think Danny the Street was pretty much the best thing ever!

My favorite stories are the ones involving Rhea Jones, as well as the introductory tale about Dorothy's imaginary friends and the final battle with the Candlemaker. He's one of my favorite villains.

That story is definitely near the top of my DP list. I also liked the reference, in Driver 8's name, to a song from the underrated third R.E.M. album, "Fables of the Reconstruction."



Agreed. Doom Patrol #50, which climaxes with the Brotherhood of DaDa ready to take on the world, is, IMO, one of the greatest anniversary issues of all time. Their fate in the next couple of issues is a downer, although I also think it goes to show what a memorable character Morrison developed with Brotherhood leader Mr. Nobody (to think that he began as a forgotten bit character in the Silver Age run.) In subsequent issues, I think we get some good stuff, but also (no spoilers) a lot of shock for shock's sake.



Quite so!

My favorite DP member ever:

I'm looking forward to the new iteration, but for me there will always be something missing without REBIS...

^^Ahh, Rebis...yes, one of Morrison's most ground-breaking moves, taking an established character (Negative Man) to places never seen before in a DC comic.

Morrison's run was so phenomenal. You can see in retrospect how what he did on Animal Man and Doom Patrol were so creative and fresh for the times.

His influence on all writers since, especially those who have emerged in the last 10 years, is immense. And while that is sometimes good, it's also led to a lot of other writers trying to write like Morrison wrote in the early 90's but not being able to pull it off.

I loved them all. I love the Chief revelation and how Morrison wrote him during those issues. Any usage of the Chief ever since just doesn't fly for me.

^^Well said, Cobie, altho I'm not as sold on Morrison's Chief as you.

Have you read Morrison's "Flex Mentallo" mini-series yet? I see that as the culmination of this fruitful era for him.

While the revelation was stunning, the character himself became a bit too unrealistic for me. It's a shame Milligan's 70 issues on "Shade, the Changing Man" doesn't get the same love. I found it better in terms of balancing weird, adult and characterization. Morrison totally won in terms of high-brow concepts, but some of the characterization suffered.

I agree with you about the Chief, Drake, but while I love some of Milligan's work, I'm not that big a fan of his Shade. A lot of it was hard for me to stomach.

But, to each their own.

Since TMK has been on my mind...

Was the Doom Patrol after Morrison's run so difficult for others to do anything with those characters, leading to a reboot? A number of them were radically changed and it would have been very difficult to move from that into, say, John Byrne's thoughts for the team.

In which case, was that similar in the way that creators struggled to make the Legion work after TMK. They were too far removed from their younger selves to continue in a way that later writers wanted, leading to a reboot?

Just a passing thought really. I'll actually get to some proper Doom Patrol posts at some point.

Thoth, please don't take this the wrong way, but TMK is a very sensitive and polarizing topic, and I don't want this thread to get derailed. Besides, I think discussions about Legion creative teams belong in the Legion forum.

No hurt feelings, I hope. Just trying to keep things steady and positive.

Speaking of different DP eras, I'll admit to being ignorant of most. I jumped on board during Morrison, stayed around for Pollack, though wasn't a huge fan. The Arcudi run had some interesting bits, but not enough characters that I enjoyed so I dropped it early on. Byrne's team just turned me off from the get-go for some reason, especially since DC let him totally reboot them and forsake previous incarnations. I liked Giffen's series though - it kept things quirky, had a bunch of characters I liked and acknowledged the past. Not perfect, but my second fav run after Morrison.

Before Byrne departed DC he went through a radical purity phase, where nothing to him was as good as the original versions, so in short order he dumped the Demon's rhyming, turned the New Gods into a strict photocopy of Kirby's first stories, and brought the Doom Patrol back to the original formation. The problem I had with him was that his "pure" interpretations of these properties were stale and lifeless. They clung so heavily to Kirby et al, that they weren't dynamic in any way (ironic in the case of Kirby because that was the point of these new creations).

I haven't yet! In fact, I haven't read a TPB or OGN in like over a year. I'm about half way through reading War and Peace right now but when its over, I may do one of my patented mega-TPB buys and Flex is at the top of the list.

Regarding the Chief, I want to clarify: I didn't like the Chief as a person. In fact, I basically couldn't stand him. But I loved the way Morrison wrote him. The "twist" just felt so perfect and so batshit crazy to me. And for the time it was so cutting edge (unlike now where every character in every medium is basically evil all along and you never knew it).

But I loved them all in their own way. I don't really have a favorite. I also like that this was a "moment in time" that can't be replicated. One of the things that was nice about Rachel Pollack's run was she took the ball and ran in her own direction, without trying to replicate Grant's work.

Something else else I wanted to point out: I've always felt there is some nice similarity between Robot Man and the FF's Thing. Both have a "lovable tough guy" quality to them; both have tempers, both can be caring people who are loyal to their family & friends, and both have been put through some serious shit. Cliff may not ever be my #1 favorite character at any given time, but he's the character I always want on the team, because he's kind of Mr. Ol' Reliable.

Glad to learn it's at the top of your list. There really is not a lot he's done in the past 20 years that I like as much as Flex and DP and Animal Man. Off the top of my head, I can cite: the Watchmen riff and the Shazam homage from Multiversity, and the better bits of Invisibles, All Star Superman, and 7 Soldiers. And I've heard great things about We3, but I'm afraid to read it in case one of the three animals dies; I don't think I'd be able to bear it.



I think you've hit the nail in the head on exactly why we differ on Morrison's Chief. For a long time, the only part of Morrison's DP I had read was the original Crawling from the Wreckage trade. By the time the rest of the run was collected several years ago, the "evil all along" trend had left a stain all across the superhero genre, and I was wary of it.



Agreed.



And again, agreed 100%.

Without getting too spoilery:
We3 is pretty amazing, beautiful, disturbing and heart-wrenching, BUT there's a fair degree of animal-on-human, human-on-animal and animal-on-animal violence that doesn't always end well for the 3.

Thanks, Dave. That's pretty much what I was afraid of. I'm sure I'll read it eventually, but not in the immediate future.

...I like the Brotherhood of Dada!

I *love* the Brotherhood of Dada! Like I said before, I think Doom Patrol #50, where the BoD stands ready to take on the world, is the peak of the Morrison era and one of the best anniversary issues ever published.

Cheers, mate! 100% agree
Crazy Jane was a great character and concept but that issue just rocked me

I have always enjoyed the Doom Patrol. My first exposure was seeing them on the cover of DC Comics Presents with Superman, then again in Wolfman/Perez Teen Titans. I loved them and wanted to know more about them. I followed their return in Teen Titans, as well as the development of Mento.

Morrison's Doom Patrol shifted what I thought was possible in comics and primed me for years of Vertigo and indie books.
Pollack confused me and turned me away from DP.

I came back to Doom Patrol when they re-entered the DCU proper, largely because of Celsius. And I hated how that turned out.

Since then, I haven't enjoyed DP. There was the weird bit that appeared in Teen Titans and Secret 6.
I am SOOOOO looking forward to the new series though. It's one of the most exciting things for me on the DC schedule.

Funnily enough, last night I re-read the five Steve Lightle issues of the 80s Doom Patrol -- the only pre-Morrison issues I hadn't already gotten rid of -- but now I think I'm going to get rid of 4 and 5, because, Jeez Louise, after that promising first arc where Celsius gets the team back together and they battle her demon-possessed father with delusions of godhood, it just goes straight down the toilet. The new characters were SO annoying, no wonder Morrison kept Rhea in a coma for so long.

"Rhea in a coma, I know, I know, it's serious"

I don't know if I ever mentioned this, but a couple of years ago I got George Perez to do a con sketch of Danny the Street since Danny can be considered a Teen Titan now.

Just about the only decent thing Scott Lobdell ever did on his run with the Titans.

Guys, I HAD to share this awesome DP commission Richard Case did for someone.

It's a Victorian style Doom Patrol and I never realized until now how much I needed Rebis in a dress.

http://rhomblog.blogspot.com/2015/06/doom-patrol-of-occult.html

Hmm, if anyone here read Flex Mentallo, what did you guys think of it?

Sarky, I've been praising Flex Mentallo to the skies here at Legion World ever since I read it a little under three years ago when it was finally collected in hardcover.

Here's my full-length review, originally posted August 21, 2013 in the Random Review Corner thread:

I was always a fan of the classic Doom Patrol, and I was out of the habit of buying comics when Morrison's Doom Patrol came out-- and quite frankly once it came out that he made the Chief a bad guy I lost all interest in ever looking at that iteration of the Doom Patrol.

The original Dooom Patrol was a pretty unique property for a DC Comic. In fact, it comes across as one of the most Marvel-like comics Silver Age DC ever did. Cliff, Larry, and Rita were heroes without secret identities-- heroes who wanted to be recognized by their real names instead of codenames. Consistently in the comics they referred to each other by their first names-- and often feuded and fussed with each other.

And the Chief was a brilliant man whose handicap did NOT keep him from being a heroic figure ... one capable of going out into the field when needed.

And in a time when Superboy was still calling Jonathan and Martha Kent his "foster parents" and Bruce Wayne had Dick Grayson as his "ward", you not only had Steve and Rita adopting teenaged Beast Boy, but you had Steve straight out telling Gar that he was expecting Gar to inherit his fortune one day.

The DP was a DC team unlike any other team I'd read of before when I first encountered them, and they'll always have a special place in my heart.

The Doom Patrol is frequently compared to the X-Men, but in the above respect they were very much like the Fantastic Four ... an even more dysfunctional FF, but all the same...

I liked the 'new generation' of Negative Woman, Tempest and Celsius (way back in the day), but they never really seemed to resonate, and sort of fell out of use.

Makes me think that the X-Men's "All-New, All-Different" team that introduced Wolverine, Storm, Nightcrawler and Colossus was really the only time a replacement team became way more popular than the originals .... (maybe Teen Titans)

First issue of the Way/Derington DP has been purchased and is safely set down inside my home. Review to come soon.

Not bad at all.

Quite promising, IMO.

And a tiny bit too self-conscious.

If the above sounds like damning with faint praise, be assured that was not my intention. I don't think Morrison's version of DP hit the ground running, either, and I had the same feeling of excessive self-consciousness from my first reading of that run.

Love Casey, unconditionally so!! She is the perfect point-of-view character, and her acute quirkiness is endearing rather than annoying or creepy. Well done, Mr. Way!!

I like her work partner, Sam. Way both makes him instantly likeable and hints at a lot of intriguing things about him with only a few bold writerly strokes. I look forward to the introduction of his son Lucius and to finding out exactly what happened to Lucius's mother.

Cor, an exploding gyro! (Young Ones reference wholly intentional.) Splendid!

And Robotman, the one DP constant. I didn't see what happens to him coming at all. I'm sure it's temporary.



The evil alien corporate fat cats appear too cliché, but maybe Mr. Way has some surprises up his sleeve. And it doesn't hurt that we're on the verge of being reintroduced to the fabulous Danny.

Now, Terry None...the jury's still out. She could get annoying very quickly. OTOH...



Don't know what to make of the seemingly tangential and cryptic (if beautifully colored) last two pages at all. They reek of Mr. Way's tendencies toward Morrison-flattery-by-imitation which Dave mentioned earlier on. I know that the brick is a reference to Danny (even though I didn't read the last version of DP, I learned of his being reduced to a brick through reviews in this forum,) but the rest of it has me mystified.

What it comes down to in the end is, I'm reading DP issue #2 for sure.

It was weird and wonderful and a lot of fun. I DO think he's trying a bit too hard to homage Morrison, but there's definitely enough original stuff here to recommend it. I'm hoping he finds his own voice quickly and settles into a groove.

My favourite page was the seemingly non sequitur one of Niles Calder out in the wilderness tuning his keyboards. It made me laugh.

Dave, do you have any thoughts on what the last two pages might have been about?

Other than the obvious, that Danny killed some kind of king (can he throw himself, or did someone throw him through the window?) Not sure about the lion with all the light arrows. Seems like something that will be revealed in time.

Thanks. Yeah, in hindsight, I should have caught the "killing-the-king" theme right away. Perhaps a symbol for newer, more progressive British attitudes (as in tolerance and acceptance of LGBT sentients, including, of course, Danny) finally killing off the old, repressive British attitudes? (We can dream.)

While I also LOVED Morrison's run, and it's what got me into DP in the first place, I think maybe having Cliff wear his jacket from two (?) volumes ago, might be a but much. I don't think they needed such a blatant recall of the past if they wanted to not seem like they were just trying to emulate that previous run.

That said, if anything, to me this issue drew comparisons to this month's "Moon Knight" more than anything else - the shifts in focus, the different art styles and including a seemingly non sequitur sci-fi scene that is discongruent with previous history of the franchise.

I'm a little concerned that whatsername just kinda took it in stride that her roommate was blown to bits in front of her eyes. I know she's had weird shit happen to her in the past, and maybe her reaction is meant to be part of it, but I'm not clear about it. Her friend (sorry, names haven't' stuck with me yet) and others think of robot-men and stuff as weird, but they're supposed to be in the DCU - "weird" should be a relative term there.

Other than that, this issue is basically what I was expecting given the pre-release press about it. The coming months will show whether or not this title lives up to the Young Animals's mission statement of being "dangerous" or if DP is just a rehash of the past with a new coat of paint...

Oh! I almost forgot --- that scene with Caulder just made me realize that if DP were ever a movie, it should be directed by Wes Anderson. (and yeah, Niles Caulder would be played by Bill Murray, Negative Man played by Owen *and* Luke Wilson, Jason Schwartzman as the voice and mo-cap performance of Robotman)

Drake, it took me a couple minutes after reading your post to realize this, but I think that Casey's matter-of-fact response to the accidental (?) death of her roommate (who, let's not forget, was an utter prick) was meant to be a bit of deeply dark comedy in a similar mold to, say, the callous detachment of the main characters from "Seinfeld" at their best/worst (death of a fiancée by wedding-invitation envelope glue, anyone?) Admittedly, it's not the best light to shine on a freshly introduced protagonist, but I have a feeling that Way is going to be exploring and dissecting the concept of moral relativity in a *big*...uh...way.

And regarding the jacket, perhaps it's Way's...uh...way (I've got to find a better term; then again, I haven't had my coffee yet) of making a droll comment on hipsters' callous (there's *that* word again) appropriation of the kitsch of the past (a major part of Morrison's characterization of Mr. Nobody in his DP run; need I mention that gold classic splash page of Mr. Nobody in a room absolutely cluttered with kitsch objects?)

That scene was hilarious and one of those things that can only be done when the audience understands the characters because it was not explicit. George understanding that he couldn't express his huge relief of being let off the hook,(dancing for joy would have been innapropriate) and the crew knowing George but understanding cultural mores, couldn't express happiness for him, and they didn't really feel sad for her (there's that detachment) so it evened out into an almost neutral reaction.

And yeah, there are a few people that I wouldn't feel so bad about even if they blew up in front of me...

Interesting point about use of Cliff's jacket. I'll have to keep an eye out for such themes...

Drake, I'd never thought before about how the Seinfeld scene worked because we were already familiar with the characters. When viewed from that perspective, it certainly puts a different, slightly ominous spin on Casey (and even more so on Terry, who, like I said before, had already failed to make a completely positive first impression on me.) But there was just something about the roommate character that really pushed my buttons and immediately made me wish that kind of horrible fate on him. Or, as you so succinctly put it:



LOL Way definitely zeroed in on a universal emotion there.



Thanks. I certainly hope that the jacket bit is a sign that Way intends to bring back Mr. Nobody, I think he was one of Morrison's best creations (I read in Mr. Nobody's Wikipedia entry that he came back during the 2009-2011 DP run, but now he was a corporate sellout or something. Kind of defeats the whole purpose of the character, IMO...)

Ok. I bought it. I read it. I got the freebie about the Young Animal line.

DP is cool. A little TOO cool for me. I think that's the whole "Morrison homage" that you've already talked about.

I DO like Casey and I like the steady stream of weird. I don't know where it's going, but it's entertaining enough for me to eat a falafel with it.

The comic shop Young Animal freebie is cool though. I'm WAY more excited about the line than I was.

My sentiments exactly, only my comestible of choice to go with Way's DP would have to be a mixed berry fruit cup.

Doom Patrol 1

Sure, the Doom Patrol was an odd group from the ‘60s but they were like a dysfunctional Fantastic Four meets the X-Men in their bickering over Jean days. A lot of the interest for me was in their villains, once you got over the DP’s own visuals. It wasn’t as weird and kooky as some folk’s memories would have you think.

For all the art movement name dropping, philosophical fun of Morrison’s Doom Patrol there was a clear destination to Caulder’s final actions and Dorothy Spinner’s demons.

You could tell he had mined the books and then built a better breed of monster from their bones. Yes, they seemed experimental, but they progressed pretty firmly from the established genre, as did much of DC’s Mature logo output. There was structure underpinning the experimentation. So, not as randomly weird as some folks would have you believe.

This version of the Doom Patrol gives us a bit of structure, but with a cut and paste approach.

It’s like a shallow version of a Morrison (who cadged so often he’s frequently sued by magpies) book when it’s at its worst, flutters with being too self-aware, but holds the flight together with an energetic, personable central character and her grounded, but experienced in dealing with the personal weirdness of others, colleague.

She loses points for not having a decent reaction to having her roommate blown up. The book does hint at some weird things in her life, such as prom night. That might get you past the explosion in the waste basket, but not so much someone being murdered in front of you by a person who then moves in.

For readers not familiar with the Patrol, the book might come across somewhere along a spectrum of kooky enough to continue, or seemingly too random for an establishing issue.

But, just like previous supposedly weird versions, I’m not sure there’s much randomness in this one either. The Niles Caulder page is fun for older readers, as well as odd for newer ones. That smile is the highlight of the issue. But compare the fruit of his labours to the balloon of the Myrmidon (from Invisibles) looking robot to what’s in the bin around the gyro.

Compare the name of Casey’s new roommate to who hired her and the name of one of his team.

Danny is a presence through the book, and is a clear plot hook to a number of parties. The aliens look like a very tired cross between the corporates in the Invisibles and the start of the Hellblazer run, and they are the clunkiest part of the story.

We get some Crazy Jane in there too for good measure, and there may be a lead in for Flex Mentallo there too. I though Cliff would stand up better to a hit from a truck. He’s shrugged off worse with some dents.

In summary, it’s nowhere near as strange or weird as the ads would have you believe. As long as it doesn’t believe in its own hype, it might be OK. The art is a definite plus, and I get some Allred vibes from some of it, and there’s someone else I really can’t place right now…

So instead lets’ compare it to other Doom Patrol First Appearances! Is this #1 better than…

My Greatest Adventure #80 – No. MGA had super gloomy origins, glimmers of hope and bickering, General Immortus and eye stalk tanks.
Showcase – Yes. It just didn’t quite click for some reason.
Doom Patrol – v2 #1 (Kupperberg)– Yes (avoids a lot of the old comic book baggage and plotting) and No (worse villains, less pace & coherence and doesn’t have Steve Lightle drawing it.). Overall Yes
Doom Patrol v2 #19 – (Morrison) No, this one is a little shadow of it in some ways.
Doom Patrol v2 #64 (Pollack)– Yes (I take back any Morrison bandwagon references on this #1 when compared to that first attempt.)
Doom Patrol v3 #1 (Arcudi)– Yes (although familiarity helps this new version)
Doom Patrol v4 #1 (Byrne) – Yes (not too much familiarity helps this new version  )
Doom Patrol v5 (Giffen) – A Byrne like Yes to begin with, but veering towards a No as the actual team’s psychological issues were shown. Clark art is excellent. Overall Yes.

So, it stacks up fairly well, although a couple of the above had strengths in certain areas that are a lot higher than areas in this one.

I knew as soon as I finished reading that scene, that it was going to be the most controversial aspect of this issue.

Objectively, I am inclined to agree with you, Thoth, on the principle of simple human decency. But subjectively, there's that little she-devil on my shoulder whispering over and over again in my ear, "That roommate guy was a worthless waste of flesh, and a piece-of-shit jerk-off who was deliberately trying to bring Casey down. He deserved it, hell, he deserved even worse!"

To quote Joni Mitchell, I don't know where I stand.

I do agree with what you say in both of the quotes below:





And, last but not least, I feel I have to stand up for Rachel Pollack. I'm not going to deny that her run never quite jelled, despite some very promising elements (tellingly, the Pollack addition which came closest to fully blossoming, Kate "Coagula" Godwin, the transwoman with vaguely Firestorm-esque powers, was both the only one cut from whole cloth and the only one drawn from Pollack's own life experience, as Pollack is herself transgendered.) But, unless I'm inferring incorrectly from your post, it sounds like you're accusing her of being nothing more than a Morrison copyist. There is a *grain* of truth there, but IMHO, it's too simplistic a dismissal and it sells short the aforementioned handful of things that Pollack got right. Then, too, I think it's worth remembering that Pollack's DP run was her very first comic book gig, and while I can certainly understand why she jumped at the offer, there's also no denying that she wasn't yet seasoned enough in writing for comics. A similar case could be made for Nancy A. Collins, a well-established horror author at the time she took over "Swamp Thing" in the early 90s, but one who had never before written a comic book script. Like Pollack's DP run, Collins' ST run has many derivative aspects and it never quite comes together in a wholly satisfying way, but it does have some redeeming qualities and I don't think it deserves the degree of criticism it gets.

I'm not sure that anyone deserves to be blown apart really. He's stuck with an incoherent room mate who isn't meeting her rent commitment and who has a cat he's not warming to.

The scene has points for the humorous pay off, but not much else. I now expect Terry None to explode any threats the team face, and some of their team mates for laughs.

I was thinking you might put forward some support for the Pollack run to balance that out. I'm sure I've read you mention it in encouraging terms before. Particularly Coagula, who I don't think I was around long enough to read.

I had a *really* quick peek at some of Pollack's first issue as I was typing a few words above to refresh my memory. It's not so much derivative of the Morrison run, as an example of a book that strayed wildly into the areas that people thought Morrison's book was cool for, while forgetting the solid foundations that it was built on.

As a result you get a team comprised of characters who I'd have expected Morrison to use as throw-aways in a single story. The Bandage couple and the Inner Child joining were around where I left. As you said, it was her first comic book gig, and, for me, it really showed. I'm aware of some criticism on the Collins Swamp Thing run, but I'm not sure if I read any more than an issue of it, at best. So I can't really comment there.

Before I forget, how did Cliff burst out of the particular gyro that our central characters were holding? Is there a deeper connection, or is it like the Atom who can appear from a microverse to wherever it's convenient for the plot?

Again, I agree with you in theory, but in practice, there was something about that guy that really got under my skin and touched a nerve, making it very difficult for me to be objective and sensible. And I don't doubt for a pico-second that it was a deliberate, calculated move on Way's part. Whether that's good or bad, I'm honestly not sure any longer.




Fair enough.

And for the record, Coagula made her debut in DP issue 70, the one which immediately followed the end of Pollack's first arc (DP 64-69, IIRC.) I would imagine you're not the only one who had had enough by the end of that arc, and decided not to stick around any longer.

In Doom Patrol #90, the letter column featured a certain Dave Cockrum, who was responding to a request for opinions on new uniforms.







I wonder what his designs looked like?

Finally read Doom Patrol #1, and I enjoyed it quite a bit! While certainly heavily influenced by Morrison, I think Way is still distant enough to be something different, though still inspired.

I absolutely loved the art.

I loved all the new characters, and think Casey and Terry None could end up being great additions. While I want more Cliff, I'm willing to wait, and admit I laughed out loud when the truck hit him.

For the roommate who exploded--feh! Eff that dude! But seriously, wasn't it kind of hinted that he might have been working for the bad guys? Or did I totally read into that on my own?

I can't say its my favorite new series, but its one I definitely felt satisifed reading and want to stick with to see how it goes.

Glad you chimed in, Cobie. Thanks.

Even gladder we agree on the roommate combusting. I'll re-read the issue soon to see if I catch the hint the he was a pawn of the villains.

I finally read it as well. Looks promising. Casey grounds it, Danny supplies the weirdness. Cliff supplies the mystery, what's he up to? Disposable roommate: I didn't suspect he might be on the bad side, interesting possibility.

Glad you enjoyed it, FC. And yes, Casey is invaluable to the artistic success of this new DP.

Second issue was equal parts grounded and equal parts weird. Larry Trainor is back and once again separated from the Negative being. He's playing crazy to get locked up (but may actually be crazy), when the "dispatch voice" in the ambulance sends Casey to retrieve him. Before she gets the call, Casey wakes to find her new roomie has re-assembled Cliff overnight. As Casey runs off to the call, someone re-attaches Cliff's brain, and he awakes to find some crystal-headed foot soldiers trying to interrogate him. He's fights his way free making it down to street level where he meets Casey with parry in tow (losing Casey's cat in the process). Their reunion is short-lived as Casey gets called into the real dispatch, and is suspended for her questionable actions of late. Before she can head home the dispatch voice lures her back into the ambulance, revealing itself to be Danny and transporting her to "Dannyland", where Flex appears to act as her guide.

During all of this, Niles Caulder takes a balloon ride, because he's awesome.

There was a quick preview for "Cave Carson has a Cybernetic Eye" which looks very cool, as Cave turns to Doc Magnus for answers about his eye.

Finally got DP #2. They're doing a good job with the bring the team together story, with enough mystery behind that to add depth. Larry is pretty weird, Cliff isn't; Danny is beyond logic. The Niles Caulder interludes remind me of those repeating New Yorker doodles that they fit in between the text.

The Cave Carson preview had a real Darwyn Cooke feel to it.

The Who's Who entry in the back of Shade #2 for Casey (which I believe is the same one handed out at conventions earlier this year) indicates her hero name will be "Space Case". Her father was also called "Torminox II" at some point in his career. Her powers and weapons are her unnaturally good driving ability, her cheerful demeanor, and her experimental "Psycho-Gas".

I think we all really needed Doom Patrol #3 after what happened Tuesday night.

As Dave said, we know more about Casey from a page in Shade, than we do here. Which I'm fine with. Who's Who is a feature that worth collecting across titles. Collect them all!

On DP #2, I get the feeling that it's the familiarity from the previous volumes, rather than the book in my paws that makes it a little better. Fight starting, lying mumbling on a street Larry isn't that interesting. But because I *know* who he is, I'm a little more invested. He has some interesting negative visuals with the eyes and vomit, which helps too.

The Negative being is definitely something that works on memory as the little alien interlude didn't do much for me.

Having Danny the Ambulance pick up the Doom Patrol is quirkily useful. But I feel for these guys. Just sitting around with broken lives and spirits waiting for the next DP revival to take them all the way back again. Perpetual casualties. Comics.

Casey, Sam & Lotion (who better well join) are fine, but the villains (with heads like an Morrison era Robotman) are really dull. Will Young Animal have anything with teeth? Speaking of which, the tooth message gets a thumbs up as did the Niles Caulder page. Way does seem to have a handle on Danny and Cliff.
3.75

Issue #3 gives us some more back story on Casey and her interesting relationship to Danny. While she's on her voyage of self-discovery in Dannyland, the villains show up and get to work opening him up.

Meanwhile Larry's suffering after he's been separated from the negative being and the alien that also bonded with it. When they arrive to take him back, Cliff goes along as a "witness". Terry None seems to harmlessly float through the scene, but after they've left we're given hints that she's not as benign as we may have thought.

Meanwhile Casey rejects the truths Danny reveals to her, storms out of the ambulance, placing both herself and Danny in immanent danger.

Certainly the most straightforward issue yet, but we're moving along at a good pace. I'm anxious to get past the "Getting the band back together" stage soon though.

I feel like the villains not really making much of an impact might be intentional. This arc reads to me like the main focus is just establishing the mythology and bringing the group together, kind of like with Morrison's first arc and the Scissormen.

And I love that Gerard Way is literally incorporating the DP's history by way of keeping it all canon instead of just littering the run with out-of-continuity references. I wasn't expecting the book to pick up where the Giffen volume ended and I really hope Rachel Pollack's run finally gets acknowledged again after so long.

I've not commented on the last two DP issues, only because I've decided to wait and see how this first ark plays out as a whole.

That said, I agree 100% with what Sarky said in the post immediately preceding this one.

I don't think I've read the stories that have resulted in where we see the team at the start. It's nice that ties to previous volumes haven't been cut.

But with the villains being so dull, you could just as easily have started at the next adventure having had Danny pick them all up. Perhaps they'll come good, but it's a dent in the title so far. The Scissormen story had a lot more going for it plotwise.

As far as I know, DP #4 *still* hasn't been released. Anyone who is "in the know" is free to fill us all in on what exactly is going on.

But either way, I've already decided to shift to "wait-for-the-trade" for DP, the same way I have with Superwoman and Jem.

Finally, a reminder to please continue to post about new DP issues, if and when they're released, in this thread rather than the Young Animal thread.

Well I read Gerard Way had lengthy conversations with Rachel Pollack so I'm assuming her run's finally getting acknowledged.

That's the best news I could possibly read right before going to bed.

Thanks, Sarky.

It's been pushed back a few times, and Way's been apologetic on social media for the delays. The last date was January 25th, but they've missed the first two dates, so who knows?

They just came out with solicits for #7 and Mike Allred's doing the art.

http://www.avclub.com/article/doom-patrol-tackles-family-drama-and-teen-angst-ex-248784

#4 preview.

Okay so according to tumblr Doom Patrol #4 has DEFINITELY come out today.

Good issue. Cliff and Larry stand trial for violating Negative Space and Larry makes a decision about his future and is granted and interesting "Gift" by the negative-verse. We learn more about Danny's time as a brick and get a glimpse of what happened to Jane. Casey tries to escape, wanting nothing to do with Danny and her origin, but upon seeing the state of Danny and the massacre of his population for burgers, she relents and accepts the mantle of Space Case. The plan now is to travel back in time and stop the violation before it happens, but not before they take a detour and put the band back together.

There's some samples of a Bane colouring book in the backup that are pretty fun.

Doom Patrol 3

Flex Mentallo gives Casey a tour of Danny. This is essentially a reprise of the entire Morrison run. So, if you’ve read that then there’s nothing new here and you’ve paid pennies for a trip down memory lane you could have done yourself. Elsewhere, Larry is involved in a subplot with and a Negative Space alien. So far, it’s a marginally different way of firming a negative being than the start of the Morrison run. It still feels a bit like going over old ground. Typing of which, we get another page with Niles Caulder. These are quite fun but in the main story, the main characters remind us of what kind of guy he really is. The villains continue to be utterly dull.

The bright spot is Casey. We see her origin, and it’s a good take on previous concepts (that I’m not going to spoil). It’s a book that rests heavily on the laurels of what went before it, and really has to start standing on its own furry alien paws.

I guess I'm a little more kindly disposed towards it, maybe just because "early/proto Vertigo nostalgia" ticks my box a little harder. I also think that Morrison's run was more cool and cerebral, while Way's run is more warm and frenetically energetic.

Been re-reading loads of old-school DP stories, in totally random order -- Morrison, Pollack, Drake, even Kupperberg!

I'd forgotten the sheer awesomeness of Brendan McCarthy's character designs from the Morrison era -- Sleepwalk rocks!

That. Is. Awesome.

I didn't realize those weren't Richard Case designs. I guess after the scissormen they decided he needed some help in that regard.

ROTFLMAO

Case does have his fans, and I respect their opinion. Even Ted McKeever, the...challenging...default artist during Pollack's run, has his fans.

Personally, though, I think the best interior art during the 1989-1996 DP run was when Scot Eaton & Tom Sutton respectively guest-penciled & guest-inked issue #70 -- Coagula's first appearance!

Despite a pretty dismal start, I actually thought Richard Case was a perfect fit for Morrison's Doom Patrol. I don't think I ever remember caring for him on anything else, though. I expected to like him on Shade, but I didn't really care for his issues, and not just because the writing was off course by that point.

I thought Case's art on Doom Patrol was great. My one problem was when he suddenly gave Dorothy Spinner an overbite even though she never had one before.

You should see some of the Doom Patrol commissions he's done recently, including this really gorgeous Victorian-style group commission.

OHHHHH MY GOD THIS WEEK'S ISSUE

YOU'LL NEVER BELIEVE WHO'S BACK

AND THEY HAVE NEW FRIENDS

Today in Doom Patrol, someone had a baby.

The latest DC comics solicitations include the second Way Doom Patrol trade. It contains issues seven through 11. So I guess they have just given up on that 12th issue. I'm not sure what that holds for the future. Hopefully it just means rather than protracting this delayed Siri is endlessly, they are tying off and not so that they can regroup and do whatever they are going to do going forward. If they haven't canceled any of the other young animal books, I can't imagine they would just cancel the flagship.

I've really been enjoying Way's DP, so I'm sad to announce that I was quite bored with the DP/JLA special. I didn't actually finish it. Bizarre recreations of the 50s subtly showing it's dark underside are common enough that it needs something special to make it pop, and this just doesn't. And Way's DP has enough shiny optimism that them. Wing judged for being too dark doesn't really make sense.

Still, it looks like the other specials may not be tying directly into this story, so maybe there's hope for some of them.

Foo on DC for cancelling the Rachel Pollack era DP trades at the last minute!

I already have most of her issues, but her last one -- 87 -- has proven impossible to find.

Where was it reported as cancelled?? I pre-ordered it back in October, a DCBS 50% off special...

A bit miffed that MILK WARS was mainly a vehicle to reset and relaunch such young titles... And Doom Patrol itself is getting so late it's ridiculous... but does the ending of Milk Wars mean

Here it is. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, Pov.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/11/30/dc-cancels-rachel-pollack-doom-patrol-collections/

November 30th of last year...? Surprised I missed that... I check BC every couple of days. That's too bad.

Doom Patrol #11 FINALLY came out today and we get an answer as to why they did what they did with Robotman in "Milk Wars."

Followup to last....

Veering off on a tangent, Keith Giffen’s DP Has always seemed like a fun ride that I have been meaning to read. Am I judging that correctly?

Yes, even though he never references Rachel Pollack's run.

BFOB, this old Doom Patrol thread from this very forum is all about the Giffen version:

http://www.legionworld.net/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=494814&page=1

So over in Doomsday Clock, Geoff Johns has revealed India's got a super team called "The Doomed." It's led by Celsius and includes the Animal-Vegetable-Mineral Man as well as a new character called "Beast Girl."

Thought.

What if in-between Mento's appearance in Teen Titans and then Giffen's Doom Patrol run, the reason that whole shpeel about him taking control of the team back from Caulder was thwarted because Caulder tampered with the helmet's wiring so it would permanently screw him up?

I wouldn't put it past the beardy old bastard. I honestly wish Caulder would get horribly tortured in perpetuity a la Prometheus (the icon from the Olympian myths, not the lame JLA villain,) and have that be the end of him!

Heh. When I was typing the first sentence, it occurred to me that maybe Caulder was jealous because Dayton's beard was fuller, thicker, and fluffier than his!

Neron's tour of Hell:... and this is where we used to have Prometheus. He took early retirement, and what with the budget cuts...
Tenzil: Um... there's just three guys with beards, shouting at each other...
Neron: Wait till you have to spend some time in their company...

Caulder: Only my genius can save mankind! You? You are playthings for my genius!
Dayton: I shall shape the world so that Rita will love me forever! Forever!
Long: Hah! Rita loves me! All women love me! Look at this chest hair!

Tenzil: Yeesh! I see your point...

Thoth, ROTFLMAO




There hasn't been that much facial hair in one place since the heyday of the 70s rock band Foghat!

The Doom Patrol was featured in Scooby-Doo Team Up, and the issue included Danny the Street, Crazy Jane, and even Flex Mentallo

Underwhelmed by the final issue. Still, this run was a fun ride and I hope the promised second volume materializes. With a co-writer, it might even come out send me regularly. I suspect it won’t so much be co-writers as plotter/scripter.

What does it say about me, after years of ranting about how much I'm not interested in new live action superhero stuff I... want to try the Doom Patrol show?

I enjoyed the DP Blackfoot pilot in Titans, except for the same awful Chief Geoff Johns always writes. It’s like he read Morrison’s run and is only takeaway was “The Chief is an awful person.” So that’s the entirety of his character every time Johns Writes him. I even liked Elasti-Girl. I liked the DP more than I like the Titans.

Sadly, the delightful and cute-as-a-button beast boy will not be following them into their own series, and they are recasting everyone but Rita. And since the problem with the Chief was the writing, a recast doesn’t have much hope of fixing the one character who needed it.

Still, I’ve got a sub for other reasons, so I’ll give it a shot. They did better than I expected once, so maybe they’ll do it again.

It’s funny that they sent BB off to have a better life, considering that the DP seem mostly fun to be around, while being near the Titans is like listening to Nine Inch Nails while cutting yourself.

I just picked up Grant Morrison's Doom Patrol Volume One.

I like it! Its not THAT wacky or offbeat, still some super hero action, lots of new (to me) characters.

I haven't finished it yet but looking forward to getting Volume Two and I'm glad he had a long run on it because now I have more to read.

Doom Patrol by Rachel Pollack Omnibus is scheduled to arrive in stores this week.