Legion World
Posted By: Brain-Fall-Out Boy Mister Miracle - 08/10/17 02:06 PM
The first issue of Tom King's Mister Miracle maxiseries is out, and it is everything I could have hoped for. It's a meditation on depression and alienation, with the same lyrical beauty as King's Vision series. Mitch Gerads' art is perfect. It freels very different in different scenes, in very appropriate ways, while also feeling unified. I'm terrible at art-talking, but I will single out his portrayal of Orion, where his mask almost looks like it was pasted over another drawing, creating a feeling of the mask obscuring something much different and darker than the super-hero costume. Which is, of course, perfect for Orion.

I've read some online reviews, which are of course uniformly stellar. I disagree with one that tried to describe Scott Free as a Christ figure, something I don't really see in the comic. The opening tableau could easily have taken on Christ imagery if that was the intent, but it was framed in such a way that there really isn't any.

i don't want to get into many specifics, since the main point of this post is to encourage anyone who isn't already planning on picking it up to do so. Not that I think a lot of you need much pushing, as this is a hottly anticipated book in these parts.
Posted By: Myg - Andy S Re: Mister Miracle - 08/10/17 04:20 PM
I bought it digitally. The art really stands out as a unique "voice" in today's market. I appreciated how different each panel was - the ways that "seeing" was distorted on the page (that's the best description I have of it).

The story is definitely there to intrigue. There's not a linear approach. I mean, I think I know what's going on, but I could be wrong. And I don't mind that at all.

I appreciated the balance of background characters. And I really hope that _____ is not really dead.
Posted By: Dave Hackett Re: Mister Miracle - 08/10/17 04:31 PM
When King introduced a suicide attempt for young Bruce Wayne over in Batman, it left me cold and I couldn't buy into the narrative or reaction at all. This though, this is something altogether different that's it's hard to believe it was the same writer. Definitely a return to form on the level of Vision with the maturity and craft. I'm still conflicted, as Scott has always been a beacon of hope despite the horrors he's endured and escaped, but maybe that makes him the perfect character to show that depression, trauma and your own demons can impact the best of us. It was deeply affecting and unsettling. The use of Godfrey and Orion were both brilliant, as was the oppression of Darkseid staring at you on every page, while he doesn't "appear" once. Certainly a must-read book.
Posted By: Dave Hackett Re: Mister Miracle - 08/10/17 04:36 PM
Originally Posted by Brain-Fall-Out Boy


I disagree with one that tried to describe Scott Free as a Christ figure, something I don't really see in the comic. The opening tableau could easily have taken on Christ imagery if that was the intent, but it was framed in such a way that there really isn't any.


Barda explicitly calls him the "Son of God" at one point (not just Son of Highfather, or son of "a" god), and heir to the Throne of Heaven. Hard not to take that and make certain leaps. it also adds to the crushing weight of expectation on Scott. He's not ready for war, but even Barda pushes him. Lots of ways to read it and guess at what's "really" happening.
Posted By: Lard Lad Re: Mister Miracle - 08/11/17 01:33 AM
My CBS was out today when I went. It was my fault as I had never thought I'd want it on my pull until I read all the positive reviews. I told him to save me the inevitable 2nd printing and put me down for the remainder. If it's this good, I don't wanna trade-wait.
Posted By: Brain-Fall-Out Boy Re: Mister Miracle - 08/11/17 04:13 AM
Okay, clearly my mind skipped right past those cues, which are pretty hard to argue with. smile I guess I just don't see a lot of it in the story as a whole, but this is clearly a book that invites us to interpret it through a lens of our own viewpoints, and I guess the issues it stirs up in me just aren't very religious in nature, despite it being a book about gods.

Here is a piece that is less review then critical analysis. It is heavy on spoilers, so I wouldn't recommend it unless you have already read the book, or don't care about detailed spoilers.

http://www.cbr.com/mister-miracle-tom-king-mitch-gerads/
Posted By: Dave Hackett Re: Mister Miracle - 08/11/17 03:19 PM
Here's a couple of good King Interviews on the series:

http://www.cbr.com/interview-tom-king-tackles-new-gods-mythology-in-mister-miracle/

http://nerdist.com/tom-king-mister-miracle-interview/
Posted By: Cobalt Kid Re: Mister Miracle - 08/11/17 05:01 PM
Haven't read it yet but I had a feeling this was going to be awesome. King is MUST-READ right now and I'm thrilled he's getting the room he needs to show his stuff on some Kirby material. I've mentioned this before, but DC lately has been on fire with its miniseries and maxiseries. They've almost all been excellent.

Lardy, I recommend you pre-order anything King for the forseeable future!
Posted By: Myg - Andy S Re: Mister Miracle - 08/12/17 02:39 PM
Apparently the shops around town are OUT of Mister Miracle (at least the two I walked into) ... That's kind of cool
Posted By: thoth lad Re: Mister Miracle - 08/12/17 10:36 PM
Originally Posted by Myg - Andy S
Apparently the shops around town are OUT of Mister Miracle (at least the two I walked into) ... That's kind of cool



They weren't bought, you know. They just managed to escape on their own...




Watch as thoth lad tries to escape the baying mob from this thread...ouch! that's got to hurt...
Posted By: Pov Re: Mister Miracle - 08/13/17 08:21 PM
lol rotflmao
Posted By: Fat Cramer Re: Mister Miracle - 08/19/17 05:10 PM
Did they print like 100 copies? I got the digital issue from Comixology and, like many others, signed up for the rest of the series. It really looks captivating and there was a lot of substance in the first issue; even the unadorned "Darkseid is" panels contributed to the sense of a growing threat. And I hope a certain somebody isn't really dead, but everything changes.

The Son of g(G)od comment surprised me, but come to think of it, Jesus was the ultimate escape artist when it came to death, so perhaps it's more comparative than religious.
Posted By: Dave Hackett Re: Mister Miracle - 09/14/17 11:37 AM
Issue #2 was excellent as Scott and Barda are pushed to exhaustion in the non-stop war, then given a suspect task by Orion, who's methods and demeanor don't sit well with Scott. He is once again forced to question not only what is really happening, but where his loyalties lie, as he begins to realise he really might love his Granny after all. Won't give away too much more, but I disagree with the early reviews saying the plot this time out is much more straightforward. That's a very surface reading of the issue, as there's a lot going on beneath the surface that King and Gerads quite brilliantly hide in plain sight. Really liked it.
Posted By: Brain-Fall-Out Boy Re: Mister Miracle - 09/14/17 01:21 PM
Just to warn you, this post is probably going to be 10% discussing Mister Miracle #2, and 90% about the personal issues it dredged up for me.

I think of all the permutations of parent/child relationships, mother/son gets the least attention, especially if you ignore the creepy evo psych or oedipal stuff. Father/son the most, mother/daughter and father/daughter far behind, but still a sizeable body of works, and like I said, mother/son last.

Since most of my leftover childhood baggage deals with my mother, the dearth of things that speak to that has always struck me. Some father/son stuff is still applicable, but nothing that ever made me think "Yes! That is EXACTLY what I feel!"

Until this issue. I can't express how deeply Scott's relationship with Granny resonated. The awful memories mixed with the memories of genuine maternal love, the coming back as an adult and finding a mother who wants to pretend you've got a magically perfect relationship, and especially watching your mother think she can start treating you well while treating everyone else the same, and that the two things are unrelated.

My sister killed herself several years ago, and my mother decided to blame my sister's boyfriend because they had had an argument that led to the suicide. Never mind the multiple suicide attempts before she ever met him, or the severe emotional problems she'd had throughout her adult life.

I hadn't spoken to my mother in several years at this point, and we were having some awkward approaches in the aftermath. Then she got access to my sister's facebook page and unfriended the boyfriend. She couldn't seem to grasp that even if she was being gentle with me, doing exactly the kind of crap she did to us to this other guy showed that she hadn't fundamentally changed at all, and seemed shocked when I cut her off again.

I couldn't help but think of that incident when watching Granny talk about wonderful childhood memories with Scott and Barda while a man she was starving to death sat at the table. The mixture of maternal affection and the kind of cruelty that's carefully thought out to specifically push buttons left me with a feeling that finally, someone else out there Got It.

The amount of time I spent thinking about my own issues makes it a little harder than last issue to step back and really talk about the issue. I did like the single use of "Darkseid is." this issue. It keeps the theme alive without making it overbearing. I'm going to have to start paying attention to when these occur, and if there's some meaning to it. This issue, it seemed to be at the point that he stopped following the plan, and started obeying Granny's instructions again as he did in his youth. But that may be reading too much into it; he was still just going numbly through the motions, he was just obeying someone different than he had been in the earlier part of the issue.

I know last issue Barda was adamant that Orion was not Darkseid's son, but he sure felt like it this issue.

And I notice that neither Scott nor Barda tried, or even thought about, trying to rescue Stormforge.
Posted By: Dave Hackett Re: Mister Miracle - 09/14/17 02:05 PM
So sorry for your loss and the resultant and lingering pain BFOB.

This issue also drew out some extremely personal reactions and certainly built on the previous issue.

King brilliantly runs three conflicts simultaneously and interwoven: Scott/Granny, Scott/Orion, Scott/Barda. The last one is obviously going to be the most painful as this whole thing unfolds. From the shower, to the throne room, to the climax, the subtle differences between Barda and Scott are becoming more noticeable and more complicated. They've always had interesting dynamic, fueled by their shared experience raised by Granny, but King keys in on the interesting notion that maybe they had very different experiences afterall. Barda was raised to be a Warrior and a Fury, while Scott was raised purely for subjugation and humiliation (supposedly). Their reactions and feelings are markedly different because of this and while they obviously love each other, their programming is creating a larger and larger gulf between them. She doesn't know how to handle his fragility, and he won't long tolerate her submissiveness to her warrior's pragmatism. The throne room scene was a brilliant examination, not just of Scott's defiance of Orion, but of his dynamic with Barda.
Posted By: Fat Cramer Re: Mister Miracle - 09/15/17 09:44 AM
That's a sad and dark story BFOB; that this "comic" evoked those memories speaks to the power of King's writing.

This is a grim yet compelling issue. This is the quiet darkness. We don't see a lot of action, just the horror of the circumstances. New Genesis seems to have become a perversion of itself, which is perhaps inevitable when engaging in war. One of the brightest New Gods, Lightray, is a toady for Orion.

The difference between Scott and Barda is painful.

I really had a sense of Scott being trapped, trapped beyond hope. The many unresolved questions and mysteries about motives and identity make this story a real maze - and I sort of wish I could read all 12 issues now.
Posted By: Brain-Fall-Out Boy Re: Mister Miracle - 09/16/17 02:26 PM
I'm trying to decide how good of a book this would be to loan non-comics friends. It's hard to figure out how much it relies on a lifetime of Fourth World knowledge. There's a lot left unsaid. Some is unimportant (you don't really need to know what a parademon is), but some seems really important. Would someone not versed in the lore understand why there is confusion over who is whose father, and why people refer to Orion as his brother, which he denies? I suppose that will be a difficult answer to give until the series is over.
Posted By: Brain-Fall-Out Boy Re: Mister Miracle - 09/16/17 02:37 PM
Also, I reread both issues again. It wouldn't suprise me if I wind up rereading the whole thing each month when a new issue comes out.

Something else else I thought about during the first issue but didn't bring up: To what degree is the anti-life equation already being used? When Scott didn't know XXXX was dead, or asked when Barda's eyes changed color, is this due to the equation in some way? I know the nature of the anti-life equation has shifted under different writers, but King has Highfather describe it as the ability to change reality, and men's minds. Could this insidious feeling of wrongness that permeates the book stem at least in part from that, either Darkseid changing the world or simply Scott's mind?

And I feel that Metron's warning about how Scott must not know the face of god must tie somehow into the story from the first issue about the kid who drew God in class, so that everyone then knew what he looked like.
Posted By: Fat Cramer Re: Mister Miracle - 09/17/17 04:36 PM
Originally Posted by Brain-Fall-Out Boy
I'm trying to decide how good of a book this would be to loan non-comics friends. It's hard to figure out how much it relies on a lifetime of Fourth World knowledge. There's a lot left unsaid. Some is unimportant (you don't really need to know what a parademon is), but some seems really important. Would someone not versed in the lore understand why there is confusion over who is whose father, and why people refer to Orion as his brother, which he denies? I suppose that will be a difficult answer to give until the series is over.


I think it might be somewhat confusing for someone unfamiliar with the Fourth World relationships. The biggest drawback, however, is whether the story would have the same emotional punch. If I didn't know what these characters were like before, when there was relative peace or balance between New Genesis and Apokolips, I doubt I'd be as struck by how much things have changed - or be as curious as to what's truth and what's possibly fakery/deception.
Posted By: Dave Hackett Re: Mister Miracle - 09/17/17 08:02 PM
Went back and re-read as well. This issue has so many cool moments, especially pushing a lot of the dark humour into bleak situations (like the Family Circus parody of sneaklign though the camp).

One other thing that struck me was how Granny connected to Barda better than Scott does. When an exhausted Barda laments she's too tall, Scott says she's beautiful and perfect, which is true from his point of view (and pretty much objectively true). but it's not what she needs to hear. Granny, on the other hand, immediately says something sympathetic but not seemingly condescending or dismissive. It was another great little moment, made ironic by Barda's later actions.
Posted By: Dave Hackett Re: Mister Miracle - 10/12/17 12:43 AM
Issue #3 has arrived and it seems like it's going to be mostly an aftermath issue regarding the explosive events last time around, but as usual, things never turn out as expected. Granny's corpse is beheaded for orion's trophy and Scott and Barda are given some down time, where we get a pretty good demonstration that Scott's not getting better. To make matters worse, Forager shows up and asks Scott to overthrow Orion before he gets millions more Bugs killed, before Lightray arrives and seemingly executes him. This barely phases Scott, who treats it as blasély as he does his spilt milk.

Scott does another stunt "to pay the bills" and he and Barda try to have a normal lunch that fails completely. It all ends with Scott confronting Orion with his suspicion they've both been compromised by Anti-Life, where Orion promptly turns on him and shows in the True Face of God (Orion's own) that Metron warned against.

I was surprised how quickly the Orion/Scott conflict came to a head. I figured we'd get this drawn out to be a major climax of the series, but King surprises and brings it about 3 issues in, meaning that his grand plan for the series has far greater ambitions. The bookend hyperbolic throwback text doesn't seem to match this issue as Baron Bedlam is nowhere to be seen (but he could always be animating any automaton - a clue perhaps), but it does a great job of contrasting the despair and Hell Scott's going through. The use of Funky Flashman as Orion's flunky was interesting too, highlighting his already apparent transformation into tyrant.

This book is brilliant, if terribly depressing so far, but this issue felt very much like a transition and setup until the very end, which is fine as the beat in a larger story, but it's murder waiting a month between chapters.
Posted By: Brain-Fall-Out Boy Re: Mister Miracle - 10/12/17 01:18 PM
I've given the book one read through. Like I predicted before, I will probably reread all three together. I agree that this issue felt transitional. It didn't have the visceral punch of the first two, but narrative and thematic tissue has to exist for the whole to come together, so I'm okay with it.

It gave me a chance to focus on the plot more, as well. I've suspected that Scott was under the influence of the equation, so it's nice to see him question it as well. It never occurred to me that Orion might be as well. I just thought he was an ass.

I don't think the closing scene is what Metron was referring to. In the first issue, Orion claimed to be the Son of Darkseid, and Barda told him forcefully that he wasn't. In the second, he claimed to be Highfather when he clearly wasn't. Now this issue, he claims to be the face of God. I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is another grandiose fantasy of his that he can't live up to. Considering that he keeps trying to claim titles that would more properly belong to Scott, it may well be Scott's own face that he isn't to know. That, or Darkseid's face has been notably absent so far.

And the Forager appearance makes it pretty clear that this and Bug! are not in the same continuity. Between those two and whatever is going on in Rebirth titles like Superman, there are clearly three different versions of the New Gods being published simultaneously.

And that's an interesting thought about Baron Bedlam. I'll have to keep an eye out when I reread.
Posted By: Dave Hackett Re: Mister Miracle - 10/12/17 04:39 PM
Two other things I noted on the re-read:

1) Granny's story is a great parallel to Scott's predicament: Like Sven, he's says the right thing to the wrong people and gets buried for it.

2) Secondly the final Face of God page has so many meanings because it's Orion who already has two faces, and it's always a struggle to find which is "True". The nine panels progress from his Mother Box created face in the first panel, to his birth face in the dead middle of the page to a horrible jumble of the two by the end of the sequence, heightened by the TV distortion effect we've been seeing whenever Scott's unsure of his reality. There's a lot of ways to unpack that even before you roll in the possible presence of Darkseid or Bedlam.
Posted By: Dave Hackett Re: Mister Miracle - 11/08/17 05:37 PM
A lot to unpack in issue #4. It builds to a pretty intense finish, with Orion unhinging Scott with devastating effectiveness, to even Orion's surprise. A lot of what Scott's going through hits really close to home and will resonate with a lot of people I suspect. I'm beginning to think Mr. King's not a very happy person (or that comics writing is the best therapy ever).
Posted By: Brain-Fall-Out Boy Re: Mister Miracle - 11/09/17 04:01 AM
Haven't read it yet, but your comments reminded me of a thought I had reading his Kamandi issue: his work has always had a very dark edge, but lately it's been in a very specific way. In Batman, Mister Miracle and Kamandi they have all attempted suicide, or at least been suicidal. I'm wondering if we should worry.
Posted By: Brain-Fall-Out Boy Re: Mister Miracle - 11/11/17 03:42 AM
Another spectacular issue. The thing that jumped out at me the most was when Orion had his reaction to Scott's breakdown. He not only looked shocked, he looked briefly like Orion. It might be that Orion is an agent of Darkseid. It could also be that he is simply overwhelmed with a role he can't handle, and the artificial face of bravado he is projecting temporarily cracked.

I've gone from wondering about the significance of the placement of "Darkseid is" panels to wondering about the placement of the "broadcast static" panels. Is there a pattern as to which question/answers got the effect?

"You then accused the Highfather of being similarly affected. True or false?" "True."

"The Highfather is an agent of Darkseid. True or false?" "I don't know."

"I am an agent of Darkseid. True or false?" "True."

"You hate your childhood. True or false?" "True."

Could these be lies? Answers influenced by the anti-life equation? Random effects? Putting them in the list like that, I see that all but one of them are about Orion being an agent of Darkseid. And we have already seen that Scott's feelings about his childhood are more complicated than hate.

I'm pleased that it looks like the next issue will be a Barda spotlight. Although I know better than to trust the narrator completely.
Posted By: Brain-Fall-Out Boy Re: Mister Miracle - 11/11/17 05:05 AM
And one final thought: is it possible that rather than freaking out, Scott simply had that iOS auto correct bug that replaces the letter I with As?

ETA: I lied, I can't stop thinking of further things to add. I talked about how Orion looked like himself after the attack. I just went back and looked at the end of that scene again. When he sentenced Scott, he looks sad or guilty or something. In the next panel, he had his hard cold face back on, and he was holding up his mother box like he does when he's transforming between his bestial and human looking faces. Are those literally his two faces in this version of the comic, or is it simply a metaphor?
Posted By: Dave Hackett Re: Mister Miracle - 11/14/17 03:42 PM
Orion's face metaphor certainly carries over from the last page of the previous issue where his face went from human to bestial and then haywire. But I think there's a larger face/mask thing that's going to be key to all of this as it plays out. It clicked for me when Scott wore his mask to the trial. Why does he do that? When he met Orion before, both formally and not, he didn't wear his mask. In fact he only seems to wear it when performing or in combat. It's not even a formal thing, because his costume isn't even from New Genesis. I'll have to pull up the Granny issue to see if he wore it there.

Other face bits:

- Barda's eyes seem to change colour early on.
- The distortions change Scott's mask colour (similar to Dr. Impossible or the Death of New Gods version of Scott - neither of which I hope are truly referenced again).
- Barda messes up Lightray's face and he's no longer the chipper lackey, but sour and bitter.
- We never see Forager's face

I'll have to look back for others (though maybe I'm overthinking it).
Posted By: Dave Hackett Re: Mister Miracle - 12/15/17 03:51 PM
Issue #5 follows Barda and Scott through their last day before the execution. They try and do all the things Scott likes, and build a perfect day, but it's obviously tense and heartbreaking, as neither of them can really hold it together. There is a crazy amount to unpack in this issue, that you could write panel-by-panel dissections of the art and story and be here forever. I liked the Kirby tribute, as well as bringing Funky Flashman back to a straight up Stan Lee parody. I loved the Messianc Bondage Sex which makes perfect sense of your husband's a God and an Escape Artist. I liked the counterpoint of the more loving and emotional lovemaking at the end. And really I just loved the way Barda and Scott were together this issue. Despite all their issues, this was a great show of love and being a couple.

There was also a discussion on Descartes and the Natrue of God, that looks like it will have crazy ramifications to the plot of the rest of the series. (How often to you say that about a comic?)
Posted By: Cobalt Kid Re: Mister Miracle - 12/15/17 06:32 PM
It's a rare thing in comics when you're reading something as it comes out and you know it's a masterpiece. That's definitely the feeling here.
Posted By: Brain-Fall-Out Boy Re: Mister Miracle - 12/16/17 05:51 AM
The ending of the latest issue felt both inevitable and like a shocking twist in direction. Despite the fact that it happened an issue early, this felt like the midpoint of the series. Man, do I wish I could love his Batman this much.
Posted By: Brain-Fall-Out Boy Re: Mister Miracle - 01/11/18 08:49 AM
So... that happened. What happens next?
Posted By: Dave Hackett Re: Mister Miracle - 01/11/18 03:30 PM
My LCS didn't get any (damaged). They are on back order, expected in a couple of weeks. Why couldn't have been Suicide Squad or another book?
Posted By: Brain-Fall-Out Boy Re: Mister Miracle - 01/12/18 01:34 AM
I'm glad I was so vague, then. We'll wait to discuss.
Posted By: Power Boy Re: Mister Miracle - 01/12/18 04:41 AM
I saw this recently and it looked cool. I really liked the interplay between Scott and Barda. Also, it was gory and cartoony at the same time. I liked the art. I will wait for the trade unless my comics shop has all the issues.
Posted By: Fat Cramer Re: Mister Miracle - 03/22/18 09:42 AM
There's an online magazine, PanelxPanel, which devoted issue #4 (October 2017) to Mister Miracle. Some very interesting reading and only $2.50.
Posted By: Brain-Fall-Out Boy Re: Mister Miracle - 03/23/18 02:55 AM
New Amalgam Comics idea: Mister ‘Merica
Posted By: thoth lad Re: Mister Miracle - 12/02/18 10:33 PM
I read the series this evening, and I'm glad I read it in one sitting. There's a sense of dislocation the series leaves you with. The current traumas mix with past ones, all built firmly on the concepts Kirby provided in the original series. Something else else I always enjoy seeing is characters treat people differently depending on their relationship with them. This underpins a lot of this series, as they have very different experiences with each other. The despondency, and almost callous acceptance of roles and masks is offset by the Free's evolving home life. Some things that surprised and disappointed me early on have further meaning late in the series, so credit to King for that.

It reminds me of the early Vertigo titles, and just before them, where mature themes were explored but based squarely on the DC characters we knew. Mister Miracle might have made an early appearance in Sandman, actually. This series would have made a worthy addition to those titles.
Posted By: Pov Re: Mister Miracle - 12/03/18 04:18 AM
Waiting patiently for the trade I've got preordered...
Posted By: thoth lad Re: Mister Miracle - 12/04/18 09:16 PM
Before I forget, I should say that King intensively mines the source (or should that be Source) material for both this and Omega Men. There's a lot of things in both series that were already in the originals. I did think that King had the advantage of being able to refine a lot of earlier concepts into a more concise framework of arcs and limited series. For all the good things in this series, I'd still recommend the Kirby originals every time.
Posted By: Brain-Fall-Out Boy Re: Mister Miracle - 12/05/18 01:07 AM
I need to reread it in a tighter timeframe to really appreciate it. And to try to answer some questions. Early on I was convinced there was some meaning to the timing of the static effects; if there was I missed it.

I do think a reading of the original material is essential to a deep understanding of the material in a way Omega Men didn’t require. People acting contrary to their previous portrayal can be either a plot point or a key to understanding King’s take on their character.
Posted By: thoth lad Re: Mister Miracle - 12/05/18 02:14 AM
On the static effects, I think having seen Jacob's Ladder helped. There's even a Jacob's Ladder mentioned directly as a way out of the X-Pit. Also the name of his son combines this with Jack Kirby and the trigger event of the series.
Posted By: Brain-Fall-Out Boy Re: Mister Miracle - 12/05/18 05:30 AM
Do you have a theory as to the placement of the static effects? Like, why they show up exactly where they do? My original theory was that they marked the points the anti-life equation overrode Scott’s free will, but I’m not sure that meshes with the ending. While there’s a lot of ways to interpret the final issue, I think they show that Scott has free will in at least most possible interpretations.

In other news, I’ve decided to read the original Fourth World saga before rereading this series.
Posted By: thoth lad Re: Mister Miracle - 12/20/18 12:07 AM
I've not forgotten your post BFOB. It's just that was reading someone else's books (I'm avoiding saying floppies as it sounds wrong smile ) and I've not visited since my read through.

So, I'm going by my rusty, tottering memory cell...

I remember there being a lot of them in the first issue. There's a TV effect early on. It links with the last issue. It has Scott saying he can always escape (really meaning this reality) with the Darkseid Is text averting its authority over the reality he's trapped in. The effects are the divergence from the DCU reality he's supposed to escape to and the one probably created by the Anti Life equation that he finds himself in.

In the end he chooses not to escape this universe. His early struggles to do this are shown in the Oberon Illusion (a good name for a story); Barda's eyes (he says he can't escape the world he's trapped in, she hits him, he recovers and her eyes have changed.); the chat show where he's confronting the moment of the divergence; The face of Orion and when he confronts what he believes from Orion's questioning. Memory cell can't think of others, but there are probably loads of them.

In the end, he's as free as he is trapped. The war reaches a conclusion (it's foretellings all payed out) and he's free from the endless reboots of the DCU to live a life with his wife and kids. It's heaven and its hell. But it's his to choose a path in. There's hints that he's really the one shaping it too. He says he can escape if he wants to. But why would he want to?
Posted By: Dave Hackett Re: Mister Miracle - 03/05/19 02:29 PM
It's been a few months because I wanted to ruminate on this. Yesterday I reread the entire thing and have come to the same conclusion: it is brilliantly written, but deeply upsetting.

I get that not everything needs a happy ending, but I found the message the series is promoting extremely problematic. What follows is heavily spoiler filled, but if you're this deep into the thread, I'll assume you are up to speed

Scott hits a low and commits suicide, is then presented with this alternate world, presumably by Metron, possibly through his own divinity, in which he can work out his issues, and then escape back to the "real" world. Except he doesn't. He embraces his new reality, and refuses to leave, presumably living this life in the time it takes him to bleed out.

What about the real Barda? What about his responsibilities to the real world? What about Scott himself? His decision is selfish and deeply unheroic.

It's a shocking turn of events, because until this point, I found King actually "got" Scott, and was dealing well with the issue of depression, and dealt brilliantly with the dual metaphors of "escape", and the shared abuse Barda and Scott build their relationship on. But to turn it on it's head like this is disturbing not just for the fictional DCU, but the message King is sending: that escape through abandonment is not only permisable, but an optimal solution.

Now I'm not saying that someone is going to read this comic and harm themselves, or that succumbing to suicide isn't a valid subject to explore, but I do wonder what it says about the societal zeitgeist that produces this kind of story.
Posted By: Sarcasm Kid Re: Mister Miracle - 03/26/19 05:43 AM
...so apparently this book was supposed to be about family?
Posted By: thoth lad Re: Mister Miracle - 03/26/19 02:28 PM
There are elements of that in there, yes, just as there was in Kirby's work. But there are other subjects being covered too, again just as there were in Kirby's work.
Posted By: ActorLad Re: Mister Miracle - 03/31/19 03:22 AM
Due to this thread I read the trade in-between customers at work today and I really enjoyed it!
Posted By: thoth lad Re: Mister Miracle - 03/31/19 04:53 AM
Yay!
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