Should we just have a Tom King thread? We should just have a Tom King thread.

First: Tom KIng showed art from a secret project. Apparently, the art looks like the work of Jason Fabok. An hour later, Jason Fabok posted a panel of a snowstorm from his secret project with no author named. People are drawing conclusions.

Since I haven't read a Fabok book, I looked him up. It looks like what would happen if Superboy's clonedaddies had been Jim Lee and Gary Frank. Plus a little Joe Quesada dark tint. It's not a style I would really associate with Tom King, but maybe it will mesh well. If the Kremlinologists are right.

Secondly, even though I was profoundly unhappy with the Batman Rebirth special, I felt like Tom King has written enough great stuff that I ought to give it at least a full arc, so I read "I Am Gotham." I can't say I fell in love, but it was an enjoyable read, much more than the special. I was a little surprised to see Duke take a secondary role, since his becoming the latest Bat-protege was pretty much the whole Rebirth special, and I'm getting a pretty strong Tim Drake vibe from him so far, but he has potential. Gotham Girl is an interesting addition to the Bat-universe. She should meet Kid Psycho.

Mostly, I'm just worried about how well Tom King's narrative style will marry the ongoing format. When he's doing a 12 issue maxi, he can be sure his ending will pay off. Gotham Girl talking about things that would happen years down the line smacks of the kind of desperation writers have used in the past to try to force marriages they write to stick. PAD had Death show up to make promises about Rick and Marlo, and Reggie Hudlin had Uatu show up to Black Panther and Storm's wedding to mark it as a Profound and Important Moment. Neither kept the marriages from being ripped apart in short order when they left. Getting invested in his foreshadowing here just seems like asking for heartbreak.

Still, I enjoyed it. I will probably continue on, without having made any long-term commitment.

I have to admit -- after multiple reads, Tom King's Omega Men has not held up well for me, at all. It's the sort of thing that dates instantly, because it's too derivative of styles that are in the midst of crossing over from the vanguard to the mainstream, but without any real personality of its own behind all the smoke & mirrors. Kinda like my opinion of the music of Beck and Green Day and Nirvana and Madonna and David Bowie.

Just my two cents.

I don't think the Vision was originally intended as only 12 issues, and early issues there also had a lot of foreshadowing.

Vision, I found spectacular, but I also had little invested in the character, so King's take didn't turn me off. Those more in tune with Marvel Comics may have a differing opinion, as the character certainly takes a dark turn.

Batman has been frustrating. For every great issue or scene, there's one I dislike. I also find his plotting incomprehensible at times. "I am Suicide", for instance starts off with a really strong issue, but too much of Batman's subsequent plan is utter nonsense. And while I appreciate that his overall story is that Batman is slowly having a nervous breakdown, and is only barely keeping it together (see the excellent Swamp Thing issue), I find his actual characterisation of Bruce leaves me cold.

Mister Miracle is only 2 issues in but it's my favourite book in a long, long, long time. I'm hoping he keeps up the quality and sticks the landing because the start is just so strong.

And as a timely addition to this thread, King's issue of Kamandi Challenge this week (#9) with Kevin Eastman was a real standout.

I'll also mention Batman/Elmer Fudd was a pretty great comic that had no right to be.

I admit King is my current favorite writer. Not the best or most consistent but above others as I’ve tried dipping my toes back into comics.

Guess I need to pick up Batman/Elmer Fudd. Keep hearing good things about it.

I can take or leave him, but as a Runaways fan what he did to Victor Mancha pissed me off and his handling of Saturn Girl makes me feel, feel, like, flames.

Flames

On the side of my face.

He can do whatever he wants with Batman and the New Gods but I don't want him anywhere NEAR the Legion.

...I did like the Gotham Girl solo issue though.

Oh my God I cannot believe how badly my reply aged since earlier this year.

It's amazing how strongly I can grow to hate someone. I hope Heroes in Crisis tanks his career the way Cry For Justice dented Robinson's.

Both Omega Men and Mister Miracle have been solid. King has added more personal, emotional beats as he's condensed the source material from previous works. Being able to close off character arcs (i.e. killing off the main cast) with some finality adds strength to the books. I wonder how he'd cope coming up with entirely new concepts, building on concepts without the depth of the original Omega Men or Fourth World, dealing with books not about war, or dealing with extended runs on characters he can't kill off. There's been lots of bloodshed in the issue of Heroes in Crisis I read, but the characterisation, concept and plot were all very poor.

So... apparently the Walmart comic King's written about Superman is loaded with pages of Lois Lane getting brutally murdered over and over again.

I'm saying it right now is this man okay?

I remember when she'd just have to get into mild peril to attract Superman's attention. Things have sure changed.

Sounds nasty. I'll have to have a look and see if the reaction is just hype or suitably critical.

Even the stuff I’ve liked has left me wondering if he’s okay. He writes a LOT of stories suicidal vets (with a loose definition of vets) with PTSD. Guy’s clearly got a lot of issues.

Even the stuff I’ve liked has left me wondering if he’s okay. He writes a LOT of stories suicidal vets (with a loose definition of vets) with PTSD. Guy’s clearly got a lot of issues.

It's amazing how hard King is using Heroes in Crisis to say nothing about NOTHING. Six issues in, 2/3rds over and nothing's happened.

I've peeked at a few of the issues when I've been in the shop and that was my impression* of the book too.


Actually, me shouting "Look, I'm a Heroes In Crisis Issue. Zzzzzzz" would be my impression of it, but you know what I mean.

Yeah. Not outraged like some, but super bored like most. Can't wait for it to end to free him up to do something better.

Totally agree. WHAT THE HECK IS THIS EVEN ABOUT?

Issue six should have worked. It’s entirely character beats of the sort Tom King usually excels in. But even this somehow falls flat. I wish I knew how to quit you, Heroes in Crisis.

Dan Didio's raging desire to destroy anything that might age Barry Allen and Bruce Wayne so he doesn't have to admit to himself the aging process is real and he's not a kid anymore.

Or his inability to admit he's a moron.

So... Issue #8. Yeah. Ok then. I've never been a Didio defender per se, but have always felt that he had passion for the properties and was a nice enough guy who's sensibilities just didn't gel with mine. He's really challenging that view here.

King's getting death threats again because of that issue.

Yuck. Just yuck.

I was one of those few who thought that Hal Jordan losing it and becoming Parallax was well done and interesting drama and was a a bit disappointed with the Parallax entity retcon, but this one seems too much. Not only that but it still seems a mess. The character's motivations and reasons don't make sense to me. Not how the "accident" happened, that's understandable, but what was done to "fix" it after.

Perhaps the last issue will make it clearer and better somehow. We can hope.

Well, it appears my attempts to wean myself off of fan rage have paid off. Agreed, the deaths themselves were actually not as bad as I had feared. But all of the actions taken after that... no thanks. I guess at this point I'm going to finish out the mini no matter what.

At this point, I'm just basically waiting a year or two for all of this to be swept under the rug by the next new direction, and even if it is technically still continuity, to edit it out of my personal head canon.

Like Doomsday Clock, there's no shortage of all issues (except 1) still in the shop. I had a quick skim through as I had some time to kill.

It's going to read a little better as a trade, as the decompression used really doesn't lend itself to a monthly book. Another way of saying this is that it's slow and has a lack of credible end of issue cliff hangers, that are a staple for this kind of book. That's not to say that there has to be an all-action, epoch shattering cliffhanger. Just something that pushes the plot forward. The lack plot in the issues themselves could be a reason why there's not much at the end either.

The core concepts behind the likes of Sanctuary remind of other Trinity obsessed ideas DC have foisted on us before. Meltzer's Justice League where they had "the kitchen" brings a cringe. Like Meltzer's Identity Crisis, Heroes in Crisis echoes ideas DC had back in the '80s. That Crisis of the Soul led to Legends in the way Alan Moore's ideas led to Kingdom Come. Nothing sits around forever at DC, without getting churned into something.

Another reminder of Identity Crisis, and again this was a skim, are the plot holes. One, spoilerish-free example has Barry Allan race around every continent except the one around the crime scene. Central City forensics must be useless.

The inciting incident for the series, one that has taken 8 ponderous issues to explain where a decent two-parter of earlier times would have things wrapped up, comes out of left field. Unless things have changed in the last few reboots, as I've not bought them, this doesn't match the power set of the character. If it did, it wouldn't be worth the risk of having such people active. The reasons why the character needs counselling make sense. But not the concept of Sanctuary to cure them nor for the powers to act as they do.

But it's the ridiculously convoluted explanation behind the actions that followed the incident, that sink the plot. I half expected a lunatic Joker or Riddler to appear and take notes for their next nonsense scheme. The one plus point, as it speeds away across the horizon of credibility, is that it's revealed to the reader in the same format as all the other counselling sessions.

The final issue that may unleash some truths to the people of the DCU about their heroes. It may get some media push (through DC connections rather than independent acclaim) in the same way Identity Crisis did. There's lots you could spin off from such a finale in terms of Legends-like reaction. Also, at its basic level, the idea of DC characters having to come to terms with their lives and actions is fine. It's just in the execution of the story itself where things fall flat.

Agreed. The basic concept is intriguing but the plot that has been presented I find not only repulsive (which is a personal thing) but nonsensical. Issue 8 seems to be intended to explain how everything caqme about. I guess it does that in terms of the how, but it certainly doesn't in terms of the why. Even reading the character's own thoughts doesn't explain why they chose to act the way they did after the "accident", only what they did. It also feels like King has written himself into a corner. The actions taken are pretty much non-changeable, even if he wanted to. I still hold out some hope of a decent ending, but more because I don't want to give up hope than because I really believe it's going to happen.

Yes, this. That does sum up the feeling of #8. Very much concerned with joining the dots, after the event. Less so in making it credible beyond the confines of this series (even here it comes out of nowhere) Unfortunately, joining those dots would require the character acting in a way that I've certainly never read, with multiple interpretations on the powers that I've not seen either. All to fix another interpretation of a power I'd not read before, and shake my head at. Meanwhile, one of the cast figures out one anomaly a few issues ago, that I found very unlikely, if not laughable. And the "trinity" just basically move around with lots of presence, but showing very little ability.

Heroes in Crisis is ... not good.

I feel my post has too many unnecessary words now.

LOL ... I was just so shocked at how BAD the last issue was

OK I'm confused. Did Heroes In Crisis end?
I have no idea

And what was the point of it?

What follows might seem like spoilers, but they occur in the first issue. I will use the SPOILER editing option just in case.

I think there’s still one issue to go. All sarcasm aside, I think the main point of it was to show the PTSD people in combat go through. It’s just a shame he did it so much more skillfully elsewhere.

Yes, there is one more issue to go - BTW one whose release was delayed a week to have it coincide with a big reveal coming in Doomsday Clock 10. If King has any hope of giving HIC a semblance of a point, issue 9 has a lot of ground to cover. For instance, it's been several issues since someone exposed Sanctuary's existence to Lois Lane and she published the story. Seems like there ought to be a payoff to that. Like who exposed Sanctuary? Why? What's the fallout for the super-hero community? But it feels like King forgot about it. Beyond not being good generally, the series' fatal flaw is the murder mystery framing device. It was totally unnecessary for King's stated intentions; in fact, I think it made it narratively impossible for him to successfully explore his themes. For a series ostensibly about PTSD, it spent 8 of 9 issues focused on the plot machinations of a murder mystery that no one wanted.

So reports are flying around that Tom King will leave Batman early, but still has multiple series coming from DC. I bailed on Batman early on, but I had hoped I would be able to go back and enjoy it as a whole.

Maybe they’ve realized he does his best work on short run self contained series and are going to have him stick to that from now on?

I was going to cheer him leaving Batman until I realized we don't know what he's going to work on next and I'm terrified it will be a Legion book.

I think it's pretty clear at this point that Bendis will be writing the Legion.

That doesn't make me feel better.

I've actually been enjoying Bendis' DC work, although to varying degrees depending on the project. Enough to make me cautiously hopeful. But I get why others wouldn't be.

ETA: although I've probably derailed the thread enough now that any further discussion should probably be in a different thread.

All I can say about King anymore at this point is that once Heroes in Crisis is over, he is officially a non-entity to me. Him, Gerads, and Clay Mann and anyone else who worked on this nightmare. I'm gonna block them, mute them, whatever them on twitter. I've spent too much time discussing how awful this series is during my therapy sessions because of the anxiety and stress it's given me and how it's made me feel as someone getting therapy and suffering from PTSD.

It's simply healthier for me to believe Tom King does not exist because thinking about him does not help me in any way, shape or form.

But whatever this man thought he was doing for people with PTSD through Heroes in Crisis, I can safely say HE DOES NOT SPEAK FOR ME.

This explains a lot. Apparently Tom King came up with the basic plot, then Dc Editorial decided which characters would slot into which role.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/0...eroes-in-crisis-dc-editors-did-spoilers/

Ok so HIC is finished.

So. Uh. Hmm. I don't really know what I think.

After reading #8 I didn't think there was anyway to pull this one off in any kind of way that could be called successful. Now ... maybe?

---------SPOILERS AHEAD-----------



So does it work as a comment on PTSD? I don't really know. Not having experienced it myself it is hard to judge. Perhaps.

I just wish it could have been done without such a cost.

I’m honestly not too worried about Roy Harper. Death is more of a revolving door than ever. I’d be willing to bet we see Roy Harper back perfectly fine in a recognizable form while certain other characters are still struggling to free them selves of the consequences of the series.

I only glanced at this at super speed in the shop but...

I am torn with the conclusion.

This has been an odd story - told in irregular beats, issues often having little happening and a bunch of gratuitous murders.
I miss the days when character deaths meant more - and were rare.
How many times have some of these characters died?

As for the series:

All spoilers ahead...

I wonder how it would have been if the characters were chosen on who was best for the story, not... whatever is going on in Didio’s head.

http://www.comicosity.com/paved-with-good-intentions-how-heroes-in-crisis-betrays-trauma-victims/

Here are all my thoughts on everything that was wrong with Heroes in Crisis and why Tom King should be ashamed of himself as a writer and a human being

Thanks for the link to your post.
I started reading it and was impressed with what I read but I have been travelling and am tired, and I want to give your post the attention it deserves.
So not read yet but I definitely will soon.