As extracted from DC Comics Message Board - certainly have at least two Legion connections there - Hmmm here it comes:

Speculate away! <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">-World War III. Just a Splash Page with no real clues to 52.
-Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman ask Wildcat, Green Lantern and Flash to start up the Justice Society; “The Justice League is a Strike Force. The Justice Society is a family”.
-Mr. America gives us his origin in his thoughts.
-Mr. America’s wife and two sons are killed.
-Flash and Green Lantern are picking the new team. Wildcat wants no part of that as He does not feel that he is the Society's moral compass
-Damage fights Rebel in Philly and takes out a police car while doing it. In the background that appears to read “Wacker 52% off. Going out of business”. Damage partially blocks the sign but you can still make out most of it.
-Hourman and Liberty Bell ask Damage to join the Society. When asked what they can offer him, they tell the police to bill the Society for the car.
-Mr. America finds and beats up Catalyst.
-Ma Hunkel’s granddaughter is offered a position on the Society. Maxine is a jabber jaw.
-Starman saves a helicopter from crashing and then flies back to a mental hospital.
-Stargirl and Dr. Midnight arrive at the hospital to offer Starman a position on the team and to hopefully help him sort out the “voices in his head”.
-“There’s a star on Thangar. I dreamt about it. HA! 52!”
-Starman
-Mr. America gets beaten up and thrown through the roof of the Society’s headquarters
And lands on the conference table where most of the team is getting ready to meet.
-Flash and Green Lantern show Wildcat they claim is his son.


Coming this year in Justice Society of America; four panels

-Batman is outside of Arkham Asylum with some of the Society.
Batman “What else did you see Sandman”?
Sandman “I saw you, Batman. Torn to shreds inside those walls”
-This appears to be Dawnstar’s right arm with Legion ring. “I have to go. I have to track down Starman”.
-Powergirl at Kal-L’s grave with an arm coming up from the grave.
-Kingdom Come Superman “It never ends for people like us”. </span></span>

whew made sure that it 's well hidden inside the spoilers box.

I am sure that there is someone will run and let a certain winged fan favorite know that he needs to buy JSA #1.

From the press release:
But just as the Society welcomes the rookies into their ranks, an evil force sets out to destroy them. Meet new legacies, solve a mystery stretching into the far future, witness the return of the world's greatest hero, and watch another one fall - all in the pages of this fantastic new series!

I also have a 6 page preview .

I wanted to avoid spoilers but do they explain why Damage now appears to have a biohazard symbol on his chest?

i can't wait until this issue arrives in the mail for me!

but i couldn't wait and read the spoilers on the DC message board(which really didn't spoil anything major).


and as to the changes to Damage's costume, didn't Alex Ross redesign/design a lot of the costumes on this relaunch?

Check out Geoff Johns message board for behind the scenes scandals! Fans are outraged by a variety of interpretations of something Alex Ross said in an interview, sparking 2 or 3 threads of debate and even a report being filed to GLAAD! You just can't buy free publicity like that!

I must be missing some backstory here. How by any stretch can that Alex Ross quote be interpreted as "anti-gay" or even as referencing sexual identity?

http://www.wizarduniverse.com/magazine/wizard/002614557.cfm

http://www.comicbloc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39803

I would say it was the use of the phrase "get molested further". I would say that the poster on the blog is jumping the gun to describe it as thinly veiled homophobia. I think that the word "molested" is what does it. Because many people who are anti-gay make the claim that gay people molest children and/or were molested as children. I suspect that if Alex Ross had instead said "been written badly" there would be no controversy.

One way that this could be taken is that Obsidian being openly gay in Manhunter is how the character has been "molested".

Personally, I would say that making Obsidian crazy and a villian was how the character had been "molested".

I would say that Alex Ross does need to clarify his statement.

Andreyko the writer of Manhunter is gay. The implication is that a gay writer is 'molesting' a 'straight' character by making him gay and having him come out in that book.

Personally I think Alex Ross needs to get over himself. If half of what I have heard about him is true, you'd think he was the New God of Comics. I do like his art, but it's far from being a favorite of mine.

Personally, I would rather have someone else doing covers for JSA. His covers that I've seen so far, while cool, look more like posters than covers.

In any case, whether or not I like this title will have nothing to do with him.

Actually, comments like that tend to put me off more than what Ross is quoted as having said (again, this is me not being clear on the context). Those are the kind of words used to start witchhunts based upon presumption and supposition. Is this what that poster "joey" is doing. Does this poster perhaps have dislike for Ross based upon things he's "heard" or is there real reason to believe Ross has an agenda here? Doesn't supposition fairly get applied to accused and accuser?


In short, Ross' comments are being taken as objecting to the character being changed to "gay," correct? Is this a wide response or just that of a few overactive message boarders?

I took the comment to mean that in Ross' opinion, Johns would take good care of and be true to the character. Isn't that something fans usually want?

Regardless Ross mind, I think the OP of that post is off the deep end. A mature someone with honest concern with the intent of Ross' comments I think would ask for clarification before organizing a witchhunt.

However it settles, I agree with Spellbinder. This constructed controversy can only benefit the book, I'd be more likely to pick it up just to be part of the discussion than I would to boycot. Also, liking the title wouldn't have so much to do with the covers if the inside is crap and poster type covers wear thin on me after awhile.

To be honest I have not followed Obsidian for years but in the original Infinity Inc. I felt the character was created gay. Actually more sexually unsure, just as he was unsure about his origins, his place within a team, and his place within society.

Okay, I just read this comic book. And it was good. But never mind that.

I want to know what is the deal with Starman and I particularly want to know what is the deal with Dawnstar. What are you doing to continuity, DC? I mean, always nice to see Dawny, but it makes me uneasy when things get screwed around with like this. Should there be a thread for this in the SLOSH forum?

Well, I don't think it warrants a new thread. But, a mention in this topic may be in order.

Oh darn, now I'll have to go look, but they'll probably be out by time I get there....

drat, should have had it pulled.

i can't wait to pick up this issue [ tomorrow lunch time !! ]

the artwork by DALE looks great, from what i've seen !! that page with HOURMAN and LIBERTY BELLE is great, they both look really sexy !!

Matthew.

Well it was a pretty good issue. I'm still not getting that there is in this book a big enough change in tone to justify ending the previous volume and starting again for creative reasons. Marketing reasons and symmettry with the JL of A title are valid enough.


Sounds like we're going to see an alternate version of the future of the 31st century. Not unlike what I had in mind in the Legion 50th aniversary thread.

There was a surprise reappearance of a dangling plot-thread from the previous JSA series.

Maxine Hunkel could just be the most annoying character in a while. Also Jessie and Rick are cute if a little nauseating with the public displays of affection. Curse those newlyweds.

Surprised no one seems to have mentioned Starmans answer to the docs question of whether he has taken his pills

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text"> he says "All Four Colours. Colour Kids and Polar boys" </span></span>

That together with <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Dawnstars arm as a teaser for "Comming this year"</span></span>

Seems to be as good a hint as we are ever likly to get that this starboy

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Is our Thom (or at least a Thom from an alternative future) member of the Legion</span></span>

I'm going to be curious to see how this pans out.

This was awesome. Love the Red Tornado girl...is she hot or what. Nice to see her college aged...sure she is just a freshman at harvard...still a teen. I love her.

Love the entire book. Thought the JSA needed to get younger and they did. Damage!

And yes I'm real interested in this Starman. Certainly has Legion connections. Is Waid's Legion the All Star Legion and we don't know it?

I agree, but what little bit of the previous JSA I read was good, and this reboot(?) restart(?) looks to be just as good.

I've completely given up any attempt to rationalize the DC universe or continuity among characters within a given title or between titles.

Just show me pretty pictures with snappy dialog and I'll keep buying.

But, by God, if every other dead hero in the universe can return, I want Barry Allen back.

Its Wednesday! Love the little in joke, love all the new characters like Cyclone and Starman and this dark version of Grant. Love Hourman and Liberty Belle too. It was a great first read.

And Dale did a great job on the art. Love the new meeting room and stuff. I want more Mr America! I want more legacies! I love all this stuff. I love the Legion connections!

Sorry, a lit bit enthused here, first time in awhile I have been this happy with a read.

Yeah, it was an enjoyable read. Looks l9ike Wildcat is in for a wee bit of a surprise twist in his life. Should be interesting to see how that plays out. I suspect there are going to be some fireworks there

still no words from Greybird? does he know about this yet?

I would love to see his reaction...when he gets JSA #1 final page. Beautiful page!!

I really like this relauch. I especially like the added emphasis on the three founders. Of the characters introduced in #1, I find myself not caring much about Hourman and Liberty Bell. I'm not familiar with Jesse, but Hourman seems different than the one we've seen here before -- is this was he was like when he first appeared? The scene between Hourman and Damage reminded me of the Blue and Gold League (as does Starman's rantings to a degree). Interesting that Damage's emblem changed halfway through the issue (did it just take Eaglesham awhile to get the hang of the symbol?).

Did it really? I'll have to go back and look because I didn't notice that.

I have decidedly mixed feelings about this issue but I'm rather excited by the potential laid forth. I cannot wait for Sand(man)'s return and to see more of Doc Midnight who I !! Jesse and Rick are disgusting and, honestly, if they become defined by their relationship, I think that'll be a shame because both characters were big favorites of mine in the past. Still a toss-up but it's Geoff, so I have faith. Lots and lots of it.

But even she can't top Lori Morning

Drake, Hourman just got married and is a bit more giddy than his usual "down on his luck hero". I've always been a fan of his cause he was an underdog trying to live up to his dad. The cool thing is he is nowhere near as tough as his dad was...but he's still a cool character.

I always loved Johnny Quick (the visuals) hence I loved his daughter Jesse. Her and Rick together is perfect IMO. Both trying to live up to their parents...and they've finally made it.

The page in question.

That whole "Coming Attractions" thing is a really cool idea.

can't help noticing if that is Geo-Force standing next to Batman...hmmm could it be him becoming a JLA member soon?

Hmmm.....definitely looking forward reading JSA books all year!

Ted's son is named Tom?

So... his hero name will be TOMCAT?!?!?

Sorry, it had to be asked.

According to Johns in the 3rd part of his interview with Newsarama, these are direct panels taken from issues #5, #7, and #10 (the two panels of Kal-L rising from the grave are obviously both from #10).

Mark your calenders today, kids. Justice Society #7 is the one with Dawnstar in it for sure!

Did that new Sandman mini (or is it a one-shot?) show up yet? I feel like I read about it awhile ago, but with Sandman's imminent return I'd like to know about him beforehand.

Since Dawnstar refers to StarMAN, I don't think it likely she's from preboot. Probably from our LSH's future (that's my guess) and this Starman is the current Starboy. It's the least complicated solution (at the moment anyway).

Do you mean the Vertigo series: Sandman Mystery Theatre: Sleep Of Reason? I'll have info and a few pages on my site first thing Monday Morning.

The Vertigo Sandman series stars a new character.

I believe the Sandman in JSA is Sandy "Sand" Hawkins.

No idea if they're going to reconcile these two. Probably not, since Vertigo is meant to be a separate thing these days.

Any guesses about Starman's comment in that preview panel. Who is the Doctor with no face?

Apparently obscure Bat-villain Doctor No-Face!

Doctor Destiny?

Dectective Comics #319

or Dr. Johnny Sorrow?

Dr. fate- the helmet is faceless right now. It could sgsrt acting on it's own again.

(well, it could ,,,)

I thought the doctor with no face was Dr. Fate at first. But this scene happens outside Arkham Asylum and I vaguely remember Gran't Morrison's graphic novel about the place.

It's out of continuity (i think) but Dr. Destiny was in it. Maybe this another example of Geoff picking up lost story threads.

As for Starman? Was there ever talk of the Adult Legion being from Earth-1?

Looks like ComicBookResources answered my question about "Sandman: Sleep of Reason" - it's coming out this week. Although according to the promo, the new Sandman is a new character named Kieran Marshall.

R.I.P. Martin Nodell

I agree that this is most likely the case, but the costume (mask aside) is just like the one Thom was wearing in the Levitz era. And keep in mind that we haven't seen Dawny in the fringe costume since then either (has it really been that long?). Those two factors, plus Geoff Johns noted appreciation of DC history, lead me towards suspecting that he's a displaced original continuity Thom Kallor.
I'm probably wrong though. Johns is much more clever than I am.

Just a Thought but aren't they bringing back the multiverse? Wasn't the JSA originally based on Earth 2?

Could they be bring in multiple Legions? Could the currant legion be from one Earth and the Levitz version be from another?

I'm going to reread this thread for people's comments, but I have to say JSoA #1 was probably the best first issue to a series that I have EVER read. Wow, what a great issue, with great characterization, story moments, and set-up.

Just awesome.

BTW, all you people a little uncomfortable with Hourman’s appearance here (which I basically took as ‘newly wed bliss’, giving some character growth although probably will fade slightly) should check out his KICK-ASS story in JSA Classified with his Dad and Bane. Actually, the current arc with Dr. Midnite is pretty damn awesome too.

Looking most forward to: Liberty Belle! Dr. Midnite (and hottie lady doctor friend)! Wildcat beating up some newbies!

I'm liking the new dynamic too. Starman I'm finding hilariously interesting now. Maxine Hunkel and Damage - I'm gonna love seeing them interacting with the others. Especially Damage; his new confrontational attitude's a bit new, isn't it?

Hourman and Liberty Belle - remind me a bit of Tinya and Jo from before. It's nice to see a happy superhero couple again, just hope it doesn't get too nauseatingly sweet.

Lotsa blondes now - Power Girl, Star Girl, Liberty Belle. I'm loving the female team members

I think this is the first Justice Society comic I've read since pre-Crisis, but I'm hooked. Is there an online history of the Society anywhere? I think I know who everybody is, but I'd like to be sure.

Right here Arachne.

Thanks. I'd forgotten all about that site.

Not surprisingly, I loved this issue. Cyclone and the new (old, to us LSH fans?) Starman were great additions that I immediately liked. It doesn't look like Mr. America's going to be around (or is he?), but I really liked his debut, as well (though his narration of his family's murder scene was... strange).

Call me kinky, but I liked the whip.

I would've liked to see Sandman with Jay, Ted and Alan since he straddles his elders' WWII heritage and existence as part of a 'newer' generation.

That said, I like the idea of Sandman as an intelligence agent, out snooping for the JSA. Hope he gets play in lots of stories, though, and isn't always absent from team action. Same with 'security guard' Obsidian. That had me scratching my head.

Poor Damage. He almost has too much heaped on suddenly much-broader shoulders. How long till he interacts with Al? I'd like to see them share an issue (or three) of JSA Classified, soon.

With Starman's apparent time-lost origins, the JSA now has three characters with various ways of seeing into the future. Starman, Hourman and Sandman. Weird.

The protecting-the-legacies thing has me really intrigued. How that lines up with the way DC is playing with heroic identity as seen in 52, Teen Titans, LSH and Freedom Fighters will be something I'll be eagerly watching.

The 'teaser' page was a great idea. Though if this becomes one of the industry' 'tardy students', it'll be the source of great frustration. The appearance of the LSH flight ring on a hand dangling from a befringed arm against a feathery background was way more than surprising. I'm sure my eyes widened to twice their normal size when I caught a glimpse of *that* panel.

Kingdom Come? Eh. Not as exciting. Earth 2 Superman? That seems... anticlimactic, somehow. Could be good, though.

I guess a relaunch was worth it, after all, I'll reluctantly concede.

I think he'll end up being Commander Steel. but that's just a guess.

The family murder thing was weird in that almost as soon as he says that if his secret ID is revealed, his ex-partner will be in serious trouble, he unmasks.

I enjoyed it.

The last JSA series, I have the 1st 2 trades plus the LSH cameo (51)... that series seemed in a lot of ways like a generic team that happened to have JSA connections... to me, JSA should feel like something classier. That's probably a generational bias on my part - 70s All-Star Comics drawn by Staton were far moodier and upapologetic of its history compared to JLA of the time. Robinson's Starman had more of the feel I associate with JSA.

Thus far, I like the book, but we'll see. I'm normally leery of "universe" books - I get annoyed whenever a big X-over is shoved down my throat, or when another book/creative team undermines an important story aspect.

wow. I met him years ago. hellova nice guy.

rest well.

The possible resolution to the "where's Ted's son" storyline from years ago is welcome. I love Wildcat and hope that he can find some semblance of family--although from the look of Tom, there will be some rough edges.

Also, wasn't the implication that his partner knew his secret ID? If so, wouldn't the partner know that the husband was standing right next to him?

Spoiler....spoiler.....find out what's happening in JLA #4...the new member of JLA has been revealed...

lol, I thought about you and this thread when I saw that.

there sure are a lot of easter egss in Starmans rants. Anyone else think this might be one?

I was re-reading the first issue again, and I noticed Starman saying something about a husband and wife who talk to him in his dreams....

could this be Hec and Lyta??

Hmmm...could be KC. When I read that I knew it had to "mean" something but couldn't put my finger on it. Good catch!

Or, given what we know about who's coming up for a guest shot, could it be Mysa and Mordru?

They were married pre-boot.

I just want to know what the "rutabegga" reference is about...

Or Garth & Imra for that matter. She is a telepath

Of course, that would mean that Garth was sending Starman his nightmares.

Would suggesting that get us banned?

Not during the holidays.

It has to be said... Steve Sadowski set the look of this book, and he's been a high bar to follow. While I liked Leonard Kirk, he was never QUITE that good. the guy who followed him was always a bit of a disappointment. Jerry Ordway blew EVERYONE out of the water every time he did a fill-in. Rags Morales was terrific...

...but Dale Eaglesham-- WOW. They FINALLY have someone on this book who draws REALLY PRETTY women!!!! (Courtney finally looks as cute as she always should have.)


Also, I'm having a hard time believeing this is the same Art Thibert who worked on all those SUPERMAN books 10-15 years ago. It looks like he's changed his style here, a LOT. MUCH "smoother"!!!

did you see this preview of #2 on Newsarama?

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Jan07/previews/jan10th.html

The sentence by Starman on the last page, clearly make me think of the LSH's code!

Actually can't wait for this to come out this week. Since I didn't add it to my monthly order until issue four I'll have to stop at a local shop to pick up a copy.

From the previews, we AR Legion fans also need to pick up Outsiders #44, as the Dominators are featured!!

I'm enjoying JSA more than JLA so far. It's not just the somewhat faster pace (although JLA's gotten faster), but the JSA has a nice team dynamic going on that's very family-like.

Dawnstar showing up is also a bonus

This was definitely the read of the month! Definitely better than JLA so far. With TEEN TITANS maintaining its high levels as well, Geoff Johns is really rolling.

The "this year in JSA" teasers were marketing brilliance!

Love Maxine and the newlyweds (Their bliss won't last forever, though!). I'm glad Jesse is going to get her character redeemed. Of course the new/old Starman is going to be one to watch.

Good stuff!

Anyone pick up issue #2 today?

I just read it.

Another good issue, though there's not too much action yet.

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">We meet Wildcat's son. At the new Commander Steel's family reunion Hawkman is attacked by facists.

Starman babbles about Kenz Nuhor and murder and votes that end up 10 to 9. He doesn't seem in control of his powers At the end he solves an equation proving the existance of parallel universes that was on Mr Terrific's blackboard. Then he takes off his mask revealing a bearded pre-boot style Thom talkinga bout the end of the world with an image montage from Kingdom Come.</span></span>

Wow! Lots of good building-up stuff in here. The Legion connection is going to be an interesting thing regarding continuity. Have they allowed for cross-continuity in the 21st century DC Universe? Guess they never can tell who the Legion will be in the future.

Great issue! Lots of Legion-y goodness refered to by Thom in his ramblings.

I loved this issue. I can't wait to find out what happens next between Wildcat and his son. With a killer after superhero families, it's bound to be big. Seeing Thom was great, too, although I've never been as interested in him as I was some of the other Levitz-era LSH.

Great issue. Loved it.

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text"> That quote the Wildcat's son said, how did he know? Do you think he is the big villian? That whole scene seem suspect to me.

Great ending though. Wow. </span></span>

this is deffinitely a 2 time read!!!

also should this post get renamed as we are now using it for issue 2

oh and although I really hated the beard and costume before somehow it works now

I'm still not entirely sold on them, but I like them better than I used to.

rtvu@, didn't the son say he read these quotes in newspapers or magazines? Seems like pretty common knowledge/behavior for the guy we're talking about.

I think you're right right. I wonder what Tom does. He's got a piano and some guitar magazines, but there's also a psychology magazine. And how did Jay and Alan find out about him? If they can find out, can the killer?

If I recall, Jay & Alan asked the Supes/Bats/Wondy to have the JLA trace all the heroic bloodlines for them so that the JSA could do it's job of training the newest generation of the DCU's heroic families.

And this kid's DNA just happened to be on record somewhere? LOL

Unless the kid's mom kept "records" of her time with Wildcat

I'm loving this book, and I'm enjoying it more than the Legion book right now. What a blend of action and characterization!

Does seem a bit far fetched doesn't it?

I believe Batman keeps all this info on file.

You know, just in case...

The kid seems very young... Did Wildcat father a kid while he's in his 60's?

He may have fathered more than one, unless this is supposed to be the kid that was snatched by the Yellow Wasp years ago. Haven't read the issue yet, but I doubt it.

With Infinity Inc. and the ever-increasing gap between WW2 and now, this means that Green Lantern, Hawkman & Hawkgirl, and Hourman also had children rather late in life.

OK, I just read the issue in question, and it's a new kid.

That makes at least two.

I've been wondering if Ted will mention the other boy. I want to see his reaction to Tom not winning the fight. Will he be disapointed or releaved that his son's not likely to become a vigilante anytime soon? I think the whole "not a father figure" thing may be just because he doesn't want to get attached to kids he's going to be sending out in to deadly situations. Having a non-violent son might be all right with him.

Wouldn't it be fun to see if Tom is non-violent AND gay. Let's see Ted work through that. He will, he's a good guy under all that testosterone.

Ted can teach him how to be a fighter, and Todd can teach him how to be a lover. That JSA... they're well rounded

Maybe Hawkgirl actually got pregnant in the 50s, but Thanagarian pregnancies just take 30 or so years

I read # 2, and....

I'll say that JSoA has knocked TEEN TITANS off its perch as "Best DC title", where it has firmly sat since the "1-Year-Later" stuff started.

Comics like this are the reason I still read comics!

And the art is AMAZING... I keep staring at the panel of Courtney looking back at Maxine, saying "We're getting you a costume." Just STUNNING!

I already adore the new Steel, though he's scarcely been into'ed, and I can WAIT to see those scum-sucking kid-killing Nazis get theirs!!!! It's like it's 1943 again or something!

"And the art is AMAZING... I keep staring at the panel of Courtney looking back at Maxine, saying "We're getting you a costume." Just STUNNING!"

Yeah, I'm almost tempted to say "too much rendering", but I can't help but feel Dale is the first regular JSA artist to SURPASS Steve Sadowski. (And his girls are prettier!)

Issue #3 rocked.....

loved seeing Cyclone, loved see how Nathan took it to the metal guy and gain his powers? Loved seeing Sandman Sandy. He is all mysterious now.

And that last scene...what a doozy.
<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text"> Its Vandal Savage behind the attacks and while he is hired people to take out the families of associates of the JSA, he is reserving the honor to take out the direct descendents of founding memebers. Well he found Ted and Tom. He surprised Ted and took him out and was going after Tom. Lets just say that Tom lied when he said he didn't get anything from old Ted. First KC Starman, now this... wow!</span></span>

I’m not a huge JSA fan (although I like them better than the JLA) and am really only picking this up because of the Starboy appearances so there are a couple of things I need explaining if someone can fill me in please?

Has Wildcat ever had shape shifting powers? If not then are we to assume that the kid gets that from his mother? And if so do we know who his mother is? I mean there can’t be many females who turn into 6 foot tall werecats can there?

Secondly I thought the current JSA’s Sand had earth based powers. i.e he could turn his body into sand, silica and control the earth in a similar way? So why does this issues Sandman a) look more like the golden age one than Sand from the last series and b) seems to appear in a mystical cloud from “another place” as if he is magic powered?

Wildcat has never had shape-shifting powers. Even his nine lives power is very recent. He has always been the boxer in a cat suit and nothing more. I wouoldn't be looking to deep into where Tom (Tom Cat get it?) got his shapeshifting power. I don't think it will be that important in terms of the character.

Regarding Sand, yes he has earth based powers as you described. I think he has begun using Wesley Dodd's old costume in his memory. Regarding his entrance, I think the idea was that he entered as a cloud of sand that came together. I believe it was also supposed to be reminiscent of the old Sandman who would appear in a cloud of gas. (Crimson Avenger also had this schtick)

This one wasn't exciting as the first two. A nazi team of supervillains? eh.

Tomcat can turn into a were-cat? eh.

Cyclone? cool. I can do without those socks though. Red/green is brave color combo for superheroes.

Wow. I must remember to use these precognitive powers for good...

Did anyone else find it odd that as the JSA pieces together what is going on, they immediately rush off to save Liberty Belle & Stripsey but never give a second thought to Wildcat. I realize that he doesn't fit the "patriotic mystery man" image but still.

Another thing that bothered me. Does DC have some kind of massacre fixation? For the past few years it seems, all they've been doing is killing off characters. The DCU is awash in the blood of it's former heroes and their families. Enough already!

Well, I was under the impression that the killers were only going after the heroes that patterned their identities on the USA in some way. I was surprised when Savage came after Wildcat.

I haven't noticed a lot of massacres, but I don't read a lot of comics these days.

I thought the whole, "Clearly, they must be going after patriotic-themed heroes!" smacked of Superfriends-style deduction.

The Nazi villains seemed really generic and uninteresting, as far as I'm concerned.

I don't know... this title's not really doing that much for me.

3 was lacking... but I'm still very into this series.

Vandal Savage is a very appropriate villains, and it makes sense that he's the one behind it all.

There's a reason latter-day Nazis aren't used very often as villains anymore; they're very passe. Only a book like JSA with strong Golden Age roots could make it work, but it needs to do better.

I'm lukewarm on Tom's shapeshifting just yet, but I'll try to keep an open mind.

*choke!* I hate when my friends aren't as into a comic as I am!

I think the team needs a German member to offset the Nazi thing. That would be cool. The White Rose?

Ooh! I like the idea of a Nazi legacy who joins the JSA to attone for the sins of his/her grandparents!

There just needs to be some more background to these guys than just "some Nazis show up". Like... give 'em a hidden city in the Alps and a robot with the brain of Joseph Goebbels or something!

The White Rose was the name of a group of germans in Germany that were anti-nazis during WWII. They all got executed. And there is a film that has been nominated for an oscar in the best foreign film category about it. Sophie Schnool: The Last Hours I think it's called. Sounds cool.

Anyways that is why I like the White Rose name and the entire idea of a german battling generic nazi villains.

I think Jorg and Eryk's ideas are actually really good. When Nazi's show up in comics these days, there needs to be more to it, whether an opposing German perspective or some far-out sci-fi concept.

Haven't read #3 yet, but am looking forward to it!

I got the 1st 2 issues because I've always had a soft spot for the Justice Society (even though I've rarely read a good JS story -I did like the Power Girl/Psycho pirate storyline) wasn't too impressed but I thought I'd give it another shot with #3. Even though I'm a bit intrigued by the Starboy thing, I will not be picking up another issue. It reads like a Justice League from the 70s but with tons more gratuitous violence. Cheesy dialog, predictable and /or embarrassing story lines (Wildcat's son turning into a real Wild Cat? Nazi villains? Gimme a break!) and super-plasticy art just ain't gonna do it for me. Sorry, but I really don't get what everyone likes about this one.

I'll ditto EDE, Jorg and Cobie. We've seen too much of these Nazis already without any mitigating factors to get past that, "Nazis? oh, give me a break!" feeling.

I think I'll pick up #4 to compete the first arc, but as of now I doubt I'm sticking around for the JLA/JSA crossover.

I guess that, like UL, I like the JSA as characters, but a lot of JSA stories, especially the more modern ones, just don't do anything for me. This whole "legacy" thing just seems a really forced way of trying to fit them into the current DCU. Part of the appeal of the JSA for me was always the fact that they were set an alternate Earth, where Quebec was independent and Batman was dead and stuff. That's part of what made them so much cooler than the JLA. Oh, and the whole fighting in World War II thing.

I'll keep reading, but I agree with what you said.

And when the JSA was on Earth-2, they were the premiere superhero team. They didn't "compete" with the Justice League.

The same can be said for Superman & CAptain Marvel.

My only major complaint is how some of the scenes at the Heywood massacre were really graphic - like when the speedster tore the woman and child to bits. Bleah! I guess there need to be casualties, but do they have to be so bloody?

maybe that's Johns way of ensuring no one will retcon them. like he did with Green Lantern, or any number of the Green Lantern Corp.

yeah, I know it was supposed to be a cool scene. but I found myself laughing go figure, I can accept gaudy costumes, but a guy changing into a were-cat(?) felt over-the-top.


as for the Nazi bad guys, well, I guess they are the equivalent of the the top hat wearing, long mustache twirling, tying ladies to the railroad tracks version of instant recognizable bad guy.

I don't suppose the LSH has ever fought Nazis have they?

In one of the coolest LSH stories ever, they fought Hitler in Superboy's body!

Finally read # 3 and MY biggest complaint was Maxine's hideous red/white striped leggings! Those need to be changed, STAT! Either solid red or while, or either color with ONE colored stripe at the top, please.

I personally am enjoying the scum-sucking Nazis and find them fitting for any JSA story. Can't wait for them to get their comeuppance.

And the mastermind is Vandal Savage, also fitting. I thought Tom the werecat looked scarycool!

I will agree that this issue wasn't as good as the previous 2, but it was still good. And I *LOVE* the "White Rose joins the JSA" idea of Jorg and EDE.

yeah she looks like a Christmas decoration.

As much as my eyes were drawn straight to the leggings my first thought was "Sneakers?" at least give her some boots.

I'm guessing she might switch costumes. Maybe she can be like the Wasp and try new costumes all the time.

Remember who's legacy she's filling...

Your costume has to be ugly to live up to that Golden Age Style.

the red and white leggings reminded me of the ones the Wicked Witch of the East wears in the 'Wizard of Oz' !! not sure if it's a nod that, after all her character is called CYCLON !! which if what caused the house to fall on the Witch of the East !!

Matthew.

And wasn't she discussing putting together a college production of Wicked in the first issue?

Well, there you go.

That's one weird setup, but I'll buy it.

you know, i hadn't noticed that [ until you mentioned it, and i went back and read it again ! ]

Matthew.

The WICKED and OZ connections make me like the leggings. Now I hope she keeps them.

What show should she 'crush' on next? Every time she develops a new theatrical obsession, she can add something from it to her costume.

19th century workboots from SPRING AWAKENING? A sketch of a martini glass from COMPANY?

Wow, I can't believe someone else would bring up Spring Awakening. Great play and great commentary. I take it your a theatre major?

Here's what kind of annoys me about Cyclone:

She's supposed to be the legacy of the Red Tornado. But the RT was the first really irreverant parody of super-heroes, and the first major attempt to take the piss out of the whole genre. So they go and make her granddaughter the ultimate geeky fangirl, who's wonderstuck by all the "super-heroes" around her? It just seems to miss the mark.

EDE so looking at it that way

does it make more sense that Wildcat's son should be the hero worshiping fanboy whose obsession was driven by lack of contact with his superhero papa

while Maxine should be the one embarrassed by her association with a woman who wore a saucepan on her head?

I don't know. I just think that there should be a sense of absurdity to her as a character. Like she should wait until Vandal Savage is making some big speech about how villainous he is and then pelt him with a whirlwind of red tomatoes.

SPRING AWAKENING *is* a great musical-- at least to listen to and read about. I only *wish* I lived in NYC and could see it...

...I'm a decade or two from having any kind of a major, but thanks for the question-- it made me grin:). Back then, I was a Communications major-- but I've always loved musicals and plays, too.

I just hope there's a real explanation for why Wildcat's son would end up having the ability to turn into a real version of his (non-powered) dad's *costume*. I don't know too much about Wildcat though - is there some mystical "Wildcat beast avatar" or something?

And yeah, let's hope Cyclone gets rid of the tights and sneakers.

I would guess that Tomcat's powers have a similar origin to Cyclone's.

Eryk
Care to fill me in on that one? I can’t seem to dredge it up out of my memory.

Let's hope she doesn't see Equus. I shudder to think what Alex Ross would remove from her costume for that one

That's because there wasn't anything. Just some vague reference to lots of people suddenly developing powers over the past year, as I recall.

hey Faraway and Eryk. I recall reading somewhere that Cyclone's powers are the result of her being kidnapped as a child by T.O. Morrow. I think it may have been in a Newsarama interview with Johns.


I kinda of likeCyclone's costume. she was just recruited to the team and made it out of stuff scrounged out the Salvation Army room(basically). come on how many of you would design a good costume right on the spot. of course it's not going to look good. and of course don't forget the story potential. Cyclone: The Quest for a Better Costume. Maybe that could be the first Annual for this group.

Oh ok, thanks Eryk. I don’t read a lot of other comics so thought maybe I missed something.

Sigh! Sort of makes one nostalgic for the old days when a new hero was introduced and we got to see how they got their powers. I always sort of liked these daft scenes when people got dowsed in chemicals, or bitten by a radioactive spider of got an injection of mongoose blood or stuff.

Wasn't the latest issue supposed to hit the shelves this past Wednesday? Did I somehow miss it or was it delayed?

According to DC it doesn't come out until 3/21 now.

Attention Legion AR collectors. A legionnaire appears on the last panel of this issue. She's being held prisoner by Dr. Destiny in Gotham City. I won't say who it is.

We also get a glimpse of a costume that appears to be Lightning Lord from the Adult LSH stories.

It's <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Dream Girl!</span></span> Already spoiled on the DCMBs.

WHAT???

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">pre-WaK Dream Girl, of course.</span></span>

BTW, JSA Power Girl is my Supergirl.

I hope they are going somewhere with these Legion references, because if they're not then they are just going to confuse everyone.

Holy canoli!

Holy canoli!

Holy.....

Damn, Nighty beat me to it!

Don't forget: he can teleport. That helps him get around faster

Ahh, that would explain it!

Didio indicated 4 worlds are "leaking" into current continuity

Kamandi/The Great Disaster
Kingdom Come
Dark Knight Returns
and Legion

But when I pressed him at WW he would not commit to which legion. It may be both but definitely Pre-crisis legion after this week.

Cool, good job wndola1 asking the tough questions!

They wouldn't be leaking these guys in the JSA for nothing. They know how much they are teasing fans and how much we would rather have THIS legion. So JSA is the Legion book to buy?

In my opinion, yes. I'm surprised at how much I've enjoyed the new JSA.

Ugh. Why do I get the feeling that each of these "worlds" is going to end up being cheapened by the time all of this is done?

I want both just like I buy JSA and JLA. 2 flashes 2 GLs supergirl/powergirl, starboy and starman

You know I'm surprised no one mentioned the other Legion related character on that last page. True it wasn't as obvious, and I only noticed the second time I read the issue, but its there and I'm pretty sure I'm right about who it is...

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Lightning Lord (in his pre-crisis suit).... You can only see his chest, but its pretty clear.</span></span>

That aside this is pretty awesome... and I wonder what exactly does it mean. Alternate universes slipping into the main DC continutity thanks to all the Crises I get, but this is a future... so idk... oh well we'll see... all the same, its amazing!

oh wow !! great SPOILERS !!

can't wait to get this issue, tomorrow .......

Matthew.

thinbalion, his appearance was mentioned, by Tamper Lad, back on page 10.

Haha... wow... I'm probably the least observant person ever... which is really kinda funny considering... lol anyway...

Everyone is so exicted about the ending of JSA, did anyone read the latest Birds of Prey? Now I wasn't expecting that either...

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Ok, so if I have this right Dr. Destiny is making Nura's Nightmares reality. Which would explain the familiar faces attacking the prison guards (Mekt). I want speculation on the rest... could the crimson fellow with the mowhawk abd the harpoon gun for an arm be Tyr? </span></span>

Other JSA thoughts:
-- I thought Vandal Savage had lost his immortality yet here he talks about waiting a hundred years, etc. Anyone know how he regained it?
-- Interesting reveal about Damage's face, but what's with Sandman? Are we sure this is the same Sand from before or is it the new guy from the mini?
-- Speaking of Sandman, interesting exchange with Obsidian. Is there any way they're not talking about Jade? And Huntress on the team? A multiverse reference?
-- I'm still bothered by the fact that Damage has a biohazard symbol on his chest. I don't understand how it applies.
-- Fantastic art all around! (though the climax was a bit confusing at first with the cross-cutting between scenes. I feel he could've used some graphic device to show that we were going back and forth between different locations)
-- I like the idea of Power Girl as leader. It'll give her characterization added dimension.

wndola1: I think that's exactly right.

DrakeB3004: My first thought was Jade also, but someone on another board suggested they were talking about the trio of Robin (Earth-2), Huntress (Earth-2) and Kole (Teen Titans) who were killed in a dome of Kole's crystal in Crisis on Infinite Earths. And I think that makes a bit of sense.

Latest issue: awesome.

Love seeing Dreamy (hey spoilers are in the thread title )

Love Power Girl as the new leader.

Although the Nazi/Vandal Savage angle didn't do much for me, that's more a minior quibble than anything. The real meat of the story is the team and where we'll be heading from here and I'm beyond excited.

Not to mention we technically get three issues in April, lest i'm mistaking. JLA #7-8 and JSA #5... so that should be sweet indeed.

---

Oy, nevermind make that two, JLA#7 still needs to wrap up that title's first story line... its funny that both the JLA and JSA begin their second storylines at the same time and yet one has had twice as many issues published in the time (countin #0)...

I was thinking more like Time-bubble... would Obsidian remember Kole? I need to dig out some old crisis issues.

Ok and here is where I go off the deep end... This Starboy is very different from WaK Starboy and <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Nura is dead in WaK (My husband went so far as to wonder if this is where WaK Nura disapeared to) So do you think Waid was forced into killing Nura? Is the present limited to characters with limited WaK crossover confusion?</span></span>

Hmm, all this Earth-2/Legion stuff. We know they exist in the same universe as the JLA. We've seen Jay in the Flash comic.

I think they just have their old memories. They know the universes combined and some of their old friends are dead, etc. They know Powergirl and Supergirl are the same person.

In Marvel this happens all the time and it isn't a big deal. We have Cable, Rachel Summers, etc running around. We had X-Man another version of Cable and both of them had a title at the same time. I like this approach for DC....but the Legion sure makes it interesting.

Ball of crystal could also refer to cover of the first JLA/JSA crossover where the other continuity is shown in Dr. Fate's crystal ball.

i just hope dr. destiny hasnt made it all up....

That would pis off a lot of people. And JSA sales are absolutely insane right now.

Dr. Destiny didn't make it all up, fairly certain of that. He may have made up all the badies on the upper part of that page, but Dream Girl, Star Boy, and Dawnstar are all very real and very much in the regular DCU timeline.

This is all part of a greater leak of such charaters, look at Saturn Queen over in Supergirl, or the Fatal Five over in the Brave and the Bold.

Heck my honest opinion is that thats all this is different verses leaking in the the main one, because of all the crises. And yeah an implication of this would be that the original Legion (i.e. pre 5YL and all that followed) was in a seperate universe... or maybe this is a Legion from a universe very similar to that. In any event my hunch is that they are probably from another verse that got destroyed in one of the crises. As to how the return of the multi-verse fits into this... no clue, and it may not even directly.

I think it's clear that the introduction of Wildstorm's Bleed into DCU continuity is going to be a big part of all this as well.

They were pretty clear at WW though that DC was not allowed to use the wildstorm characters for the foreseeable future

Great issue and another nice surprise at the end, but I wish the colorist had gotten Nura's hair color right!

Nura with yellowy-blonde hair is an ugly WaK invention and looks nowhere near as good as the platinum-blonde hair that this preboot Nura should've been sporting.

The colorist had better have gotten it right by the next issue or my enjoyment of this arc is going to be severely depleted.

(Why do minor coloring mistakes get me so riled up? I don't know - but they do!)

Alright time to talk JSA. I read this last night and loved it. Love the art.

Cyclone looked cool despite the leggings. Like her POV narration. Like to see there is going to be a new Mr. America. Also liked the speech that came with it. You don't have to be related a golden ager to be inspired by them.

Really good issue. I know I didn't like Tom turning cat-like but Dale made it look so good! Great issue. JSA continues to be one of the best team titles ever.

Oh how can I forget Powergirl as leader?! Hell yes!

My thoughts:

-With this issue it seems to me that Cyclone is veering from cute-goofy/eccentric to flat out schizo...
Still love her but the girl seems a little nuts.


-I like Tomcat as a code name.

-To be honest my first impression was that Obsidian and Sandman were talking about Lyta, but I guess Jade makes more sense.


-I agree with Blacula that Nura's hair needs some peroxide stat. I trust this issue was just a mistake.


-Can't wait for the new Steel to wake up and kick some Nazi ass.


-once again the best comic of the week by far.

I'm going to refer to him as Wildkitten at every opportunity until I get bored of it.

I like Tomcat, too. if any of his teammates overheard him, he may get stuck with that name, anyway.

I wonder how long Nura''s been chained to the wall in Arkham? The lack of 31st century beauty treatments could well account for the de-platinumed hair color.

Starman, Dawnstar, Infectious Lass, Dream Girl... who's next? And *where*? This is getting exciting.

Definitley... As others have said, and I believe as well, that this all probably boils down to the multiverse being a lot bigger than was originally imagined, and all the destruction of the earlier Crises may have destroyed their share of universes, but not all of it.

As such, you can also explain how radically different universes like Wildstorm fit in. So naturally the Bleed fits in this. DC is trying to tie all of its franchises, and also make people happy who have been raging about the multiverse being gone. I don't think they are going to bring the 'original' multiverse back, but certainly the concept of multiple universes will be back in greater force... Eh... enough about this, though.

I hope Tomcat does not stick, Wildcat is fine, and I really like the idea of multiple heroes with the same name. Heck like Ted Grant says it works for the Green Lanterns, and sure works for the Flashes. And by the looks of it we might soon have two Supermen in the same universe(or maybe not), because Kal-L looks to be back as I recall from #1's little preview of the year.

All of that being said, i should note that this is probably one of the few comics that has me coming back week after week really wondering what will happen next, and not only that but also enjoying every moment. It hasn't to date left me with the feeling that the story could have been better. Point in case Geoff Johns and Dale Eaglesham deliver a great comic.

because you're an iconoclast?

I loved the new issue... more than made up for last issue's lull. And the hints of the pre-C Huntress coming back, too!

Good issue; believe it or not, in this day and age of writing for-TPB-padded nonsense, I felt like the arc could have used ONE more issue to flesh it out even more!

Still don't care for the nazis by the way. I mean the yellow and purple speedster? Talk about bad fashion sense.

They're Nazis. They shouldn't look cool. They should look as garish as possible. It just makes it that much better when Hawkman hits them with the mace.

I loved this. A good week in comics. I can't decide if JSA or BoP got the better last page. (I'm a big Ice fan. )

Ha! I hadn't thought of Lyta. That makes sense, to me. Can't wait to find out.

Interesting choices of new JSA members.

First the non-powered Red Tornado has a descendant with wind powers. Then the non-powered Wildcat has a descendant with cat powers. And now the non-powered, but surgically altered Steel has a descendant with metal powers. Is this really all a coincidence?

Arachne, how about Mr. America? The possible new guy doesn't have powers but who knows?

Yeah, but we don't know if we'll ever see him again.

Who's in JSA Classified this week? Not that it really matters, I'll be going by the shop tomorrow anyway.

Doctor Mid-Nite

I know the big Legion talk is going on over at the other forum, but there were interesting JSA stuff too:
-- I really like the mentor relationship between Star Girl and Cyclone. They've settled into that pretty quickly and it totally works. It'd given Star Girl a new friend her age and nice to see her graduate from being the new kid. She's really been through a lot and it shows.
-- I really liked the art here. Is he a regular fill-in artist? I wouldn't mind Eaglesham sharing duties with this guy (although I think I'm actually being distracted by all those rippling eight-packs)

Anyone check out JSA Classified with Green Lantern? I haven't read it yet, but the art looks good and I'm a big GL fan anyway.

I read the JSA Classified story and I think it was great.

Also, I can't wait to see how Sandy turned into Sandman. There is a story I can't wait to see.

The JSA Classified story was ok -- I was disappointed that it was a one-shot, but it seemed to function as an emotional bridge between his time at Checkmate and his more heroic self with the JSA. The art was great though and it was a nice surprise to see that it turned out to be about the H dial.

Behind on JSA Classified but looking forward to another Mr. Terrific story.

For the main title, I thought the recent issue, focusing on Jesse, Hourman and Damage was pretty great. I'm really liking the dynamic with these three, and Jesse's role as 'big sister' to Damage.

I'm loving Hourman and Liberty Belle as a married couple in the JSA. I really like that a lot. I also totally have the hots for Jesse.

I'm not that big on Mr. Terrific, but I echo your sentiment about Rick and Jesse. They're really great together! I guess we really are in agreement, because I've always had a thing for Rick!

I enjoyed the this issue especially the art. I liked the interaction between the Wildcats a lot. I liked how Power Girl is shaping up as a leader. Deferring/asking to/of other members when she does not have the answer. My most important question is, is Starman alright? Is he staying around? I thought I heard somewhere that he was getting the boot from the book...

Hmmm. I could've sworn there was another JSA thread somewhere.

#11's out-- featuring KC Supes getting intros to the JLA and cementing his ties with Power Girl (a nicely written and illustrated scene).

Judomaster (from Birds of Prey? Has she appeared elsewhere?) debuts with a somewhat puzzling power for one with her skills. There's energy in the Japanese mafia stuff, but that milieu is so Wolverine of the eighties and nineties. Maybe Johns and co. will have a new spin on the yakuza?

My favorite part of the issue involved the new Mr. America (when will he meet Joan Trevor, I wonder?) I like the 'slow boil' introduction of this character.

Characters like Obsidian and Sandman, and even Cyclone still need all kinds of development.

Another strong moment featured a bit of compassion as Damage intercedes in Judomaster's behalf, to the delight of proud 'parents', Liberty Belle and Hourman. (Considering what DC's done to the married Hawks, Sue and Ralph Dibney and Barda and Mr. Miracle, I'm a bit worried for this pair... I think their newlywed relationship has added quite a bit to the title.)

A bit of a scattershot issue... I'm inclined to enjoy the introduction of new heroes, but I'm not so sure it was the right move for *this* particular title. But DC and Johns want to really invest in the 'Society' part of the title, which is OK by me-- I'm just concerned that characters I like might be left in the lurch.

Judomaster's "first appearance" was way back in Kingdom Come #1 - as a part of Charlton heroes who got killed by Captain Atom whose body were torn apart by Parasite. Hope that helps.

Mysery Lad, I will add Hector Hall and the Fury to the unlucky married couples.

I'm sort of disappointed that the next issue will introduce another slew of new characters. I love the JSA, I do, but making it into the 21st Century's version of the Legion seems so unnecessary. I wish Geoff would take time to develop the characters he already has, explain how they've changed, etc. etc.

It's times like this I really miss the old JSA...

I somewhat agree with focusing on character. Mainly cause I haven't seen much from some favorites of mine like Hawkman and Sandman.

With JSA Classified you'd think they would tell more tales with these characters. Maybe make JSA Classified a one issue story. I would like that.

I'm beginning to think that the introduction of all these additional characters to the JSA (and also the JLA this month) is leading up to something big...as is Final Crisis.

The scene with the two Flashes on the treadmill shows them spotting Robin & Huntress from Earth 2 in action. Yet there is no longer an Earth 2...only a black void where it should be. Perhaps Final Crisis will return Earth 2 to existence in the multiverse and the JSA heroes will repopulate it. After all, it really doesn't make sense for them to have 2 Supermen on Earth 1.

I so agree.

I'd love to see several stories featuring Cyclone, Citizen Steel, Wildcat (the new one), Damage, Starman, Hourman & Liberty Belle, and with Power Girl actually acting as leader.

Dare we hope?

The problem I have with the JSA and Earth-2 is...I'm not a fan of Earth-2 JSA. I'm a fan of THIS JSA.

And it was this JSA that has really made it big not the E2 version.

Ditto on the E-2 count. I mean, CoIE happened the year I was born. (Before I was born, technically.) I grew up post-multiverse. It really holds little appeal to me.

Also, I miss Sand!!! Why is he such a creeper now? I mean, Obsideon I can understand but Sandy? He was JSA chairman and... and... I'd like to see him, please. And not all creeped out.

The year after for me, but basically the same thing.

Is it just me or was anyone else bothered by Hourman Rick's comment "did I drink too many martinis at your mom's last night?"

He's an alcoholic and an addict, isn't he? I think this married couple's tragedy could stem from something like this...

I'm pretty into the mulitverse, despite being only about four years older than 'Boot and Cali (which of course, makes me very wise to those young whipper-snappers).

HOWEVER, I like *this* JSA, and would like to see more of their adventures.

Knowing of a WWII-related JSA on Earth-2, however, would be hella-kewl for me. Since that appears to be what is going on, and Power Girl and Superman of E2 (who died in IC) are from there, I'm into it.

If the Freedom Fighters and SHAZAM family were on a completely different Earth and not on this current Earth, I'd prefer that. Spread things out a bit, since DC has more heroes than I have sexual impulses and only seems to be adding to the bunch every half-week.

That's my biggest beef with this title. It seems too constrained by the next big thing.


...and as a result has a bi-annual housekeeping crisis.

In many ways the current JSA just embodies so much of what bugs me about the current DC generally, from the whole "nonogenarians-in-tights" to the "children-of-those-nongenarians-that-they-apparently-had-in-their-sixties" to the fact that the whole "legacy" thing basically amounts to a guarantee that every character will be a recycling/re-imagining of an idea from the forties rather than something genuinely new. It's just difficult for me to take any of it seriously (especially when they have random Nazis showing up with no explanation).

While JSA is probably my favorite title I agree with you 100% EDE.

I don't mind some legacy characters but was really hoping for new blood aka new legacies. Heck I always wanted a non-traditional JSAer to join like Blue Beetle.

Random nazis are getting old.

I dropped this JSA relaunch quickly because of the aforementioned random Nazis. IMO, this team hasn't had a good storyarc since they time-travelled to stop Per Degaton in the previous JSA book. The worst part is that this book LOOKS better than the previous one usually did (kinda like how I feel about Avengers in the Bronze Age, when George Perez was hitting his stride at the same time that Steve Englehart quit, and IMO the writing sucked for the next few years even though the art was good.) I often wonder if I don't like the JSA relaunch because of the way Geoff Johns is allowing Alex Ross to influence the scripts; I'm not a Ross fan, and I especially don't have any interest in seeing the Kingdom Come universe revisited. Guess I'll have to re-read the first 75 issues of the previous JSA.

DC, or Cobie?

What's wrong with fighting random Nazis? I've always thought the LMB coulda used more random Nazis to fight...mighta helped our sales!

I agree with LL. Can't beat a story putting a butt-whooping on even a random nazi. Amongst my fav issues of Fables, Wonder Women and even legion there are nazi whoopings. In fact, if I were to write my own book, there would be at least one panel of a nazi whooping in every issue and two in the king-sized 100 page special.

HELL YEAH!!! 'Em durn Nazzies got it comin'!

I agree with EDE about the recycling of costumed identities. Doing that every so often is one thing, but DC is doing this en masse lately between JSA, Freedom Fighters, Blue Beetle, the Spectre and a host of others.

It'd be better to let many of these identities lie low for awhile and do it peicemeal over a period of years/decades. In the meantime, genuine 'new' ideas, like Firestorm in the late 1970's are whats really needed right now.

In the Silver Age, for every reimagined Flash, Atom, Hawkman or Green Lantern, there was a Rip Hunter, Adam Strange, Martian Manhunter (pre-dates Barry Allen by only about a year), Doom Patrol, Challengers of the Unknown and others.

That being said, and I realize I'm contradicting myself slightly, I love the new Mr. Terrific, Dr. Midnite and even Starman. But with now another Wildcat, Mr. America, and others to come, I'm nervous about seeing even more of them.

Re: Nazi's. I'm just tired of seeing generic Nazis. I think they've been played out. I'm not even politically correct but I just see them a bit...overused?

Maybe we can get middle eastern Al-Qaeda villains to fit the times.

I don't have a problem with Nazis, per se, but give them some back story. I'm all for some elaborate Himmler's-brain-being-resurrected-in-a-giant-robotic-spider-body-in-Switzerland-and-organizing-a-secret-Neo-Nazi-organization-that-threatens-the-entire-DCU or something like that. But just having Nazis show up in Burbank one day and the JSA fight them because, hey, the current JSA is kind of modeled on the team from WW2 just seems kind of pointless.

And Cobie's right about the Silver Age. It was nothing if not progressive. It was an era of new ideas first and foremost. Even the stuff that was "re-imagined" was, for the most part, radically different than its source material, and quickly developed its own mythology that was much different than the originals. That's why I think a lot of the current crop of writers who want to remodel the DCU on the Silver/Bronze Age just miss the mark, because they seem to miss the fact that the spirit of the Silver Age was one of innovation.

You said it perfectly just there. It truly was an age of innovation first and foremost.

Okay, I see where you're coming from, and I'm not trying to argue the point about the Nazis because I definitely agree that it's become a bit trying. However, I think the tries at reimagining and progress the DCU in recent years have been met with really mixed results.

The threeboot is a brilliant example. It's a reimagining that's radically different than its source material and has developed its own mythology that's much different than the originals. And some people, like me, really like it. Because this is the era I was first introduced to and I wasn't familiar with the source material. But for every fan like me, there's a fan who don't like it. They like what they're familiar with.

Honestly, I just think it's a bit much to expect that sort of constant movement. Because there's always going to be a divide between the fans who want things to stay the course and those that want an all-new, all-different helping. If there wasn't, there wouldn't be the Baron Helmut Zemo camp (Niec...whatever his name is) who believe Nazis can have dimensions and the camp to keep Nazis one-dimensional and eternally vilified (I'm looking at you, Dan Slott).

So, uh, yeah. Diversity of cannon fodder would be great-- especially if they'd stop using the Amazons, too. I am so sick of those chicks. But I don't know about the Silver Age ideal.

One thing about ratzis, though...they are one of the last remaining real life bad guys that are still safely considered bad guys by history. I mean, when I was a kid, Indians were always the bad guys, can ya believe it? We understand that better, now, but we can always hopefully rely on ratzis as a standby as long as the Holocaust is never forgotten.

So I'll never be too pissed by random Nazis being used as stock villains, though the entertainment value may not be what it once was.

That’s an interesting comment about who we can see as “the Baddies” Lardy. Like you I am old enough to remember Cowboys and Indians and have read enough history to have seen the use of racial and nationalistic stereotyping to portray a recognizable bad guy we can all hate. Examples such as Fu Manchu and Ming the Merciless as the Yellow Peril, or the Evil Russian/Communist now seem consigned to the past. I’m not even sure that the rise of Al Qaeda allows the entertainment media to portray The Arabic world as the bad guy now.

In fact the only ones Hollywood seems to be able to use to portray evil are the Brits?

Maybe our secret is out?

Writers have tried to be innovative- Kyle Rayner, Connor Hawke, Bart Allen as the Flash, the Monolith, Blue Beetle, Milligan's Infinity Inc, the new Metal Men.

Bingo. And thus it appears that 98% of all German characters in comics these days are Nazis.

Evil Brits? I guess the accent does sound evil. But I don't remember many evil brits in the theaters.

Who are the evil brits? Aside from KIng George the Third

Corporations are legitimate bad guys, as well!

Politicians, too.

More and more, though, it's hero-turned-villain that seems to fuel both DC and Marvel.

Hmm. Are there any German-born superheroes? If not, the spirit of balance would seem to be in need of a little appeasement.

I actually really like Jorge's idea of a Nazi-legacy trying to attone for his grandpa!

Yeah, Germans get a raw deal in comics. We've gone backwards at times. In the mid-60's, when Enemy Ace, a German WWI pilot that actually *fought* the US was portrayed as heroic--that was genuine progress. Now if a character is German, there's bound to be a Nazi connection somehow.

Businessmen are genuinely portrayed as evil in comics too. That's so juvenile its ridiculous.

I'm with Eryk on the Nazis. If you're giving me a Nazi, I demand something that sets this character apart.

C'mon! Businessmen are evil! What if they are a businessman and a politician? Like a CEO of a blood-oil company and VP of the USA? That's like evil x2.

Hmm... I dunno. Are they a Nazi too?

Thanks EDE. I don't mind Neo-Nazi's. Infact, I think it's a cool idea. But don't make them generic. Give me a good reason. And I wouldn't mind some counter-balance of a German or German-American hero.

I know its not a 'real Nazi' in the traditional sense and more of a modern day neo-Nazi, but Edward Norton's portrayal of a neo-Nazi in "American History X", which has been on TV a lot lately, is a brillant example of some serious depth given to the topic of Nazism in its most current forms. I wouldn't mind reading about something like that applied to comic book genres.

This is an excellent idea guys. In fact, so excellent, its been done . The original premise of Peacemaker is based on this notion. His father (now grandfather I believe) was a Nazi-scientist who did unspeakable things under the Third Reich and he wanted to atone for his crimes. But you're both right. Its a pretty excellent premise. Added to super-heroism, its pretty high-concept.

[sarcasm]Now that's just too far-fetched [/sarcasm]

You're yanking our chain(ey)...

Bah you all know very well that the first place a Super-Powered Nazi Businessman (Evil goes without saying) would attack in the modern world is Hollywood because those striking writers keep portraying Businessmen as evil in all media.

And yes EDE those Burbank studios are on the list.

btw, when I said I don't mind neo-nazis you guys know I meant...as comic book VILLAINS! just wanted to make it clear.

Marvel has done a great job with Baron Zemo. No matter how hard he tries he's always...bad. But atleast he's trying.

God, Germans DO so get a bad rap! I remember back in high school a friend of mine made friends with a lot of the exchange students. In jest he would salute the German one with the ol' seig heil. The German guy let my friend know it was not cool.

We certainly could use more representation in the media that clarifies that German does not equal Nazi. I certainly can't think of too many non-Nazi German characters in popular film, TV, fiction and, certainly, comics.

New Characters! Woo-hoo! [/sarcasm]

Would it be too much to ask for some stories featuring the old new characters? And by feature, I mean using their powers and doing something. I want to see how Cyclone actually handles a super-villian. And more of Thom than just comic relief.

That is not to say I didn't like this issue. I like the new Amazing Man. I could have done without Lance and Black Lightning's other daughter (codename: Spark? Static? Zapper?)

Black Lightning's other daughter? ugh. And sadly with a cast this big some characters tend to act one-dimensional at times. Same prob with the Legion.

I haven't read it yet but I like they are using new blood.

I thought it was a great issue and I love what is happening. I love the new characters and I can see how everything will fit in.

New Johns interview with a small mention that the Justice Society Infinity would be seen by mid-year.

I agree with everyone who's a bit weary of new characters added so closely together. I don't think even the LSH expanded this much this quickly. However, I do think some sort of split is ahead.

Also, I'm just not enamored with the Kingdom Come stuff making its way into the DCU proper. I liked KC as a finite mini-series, but I don't have any desire to see Gog, Magog, Red Robin etc.

Looks like that's what's coming- or is already here, though.

I think the art is a tad better than the last couple of months' stories... though bits like the histories of the new Amazing Man and Lance whatever-his-name were enjoyable.

The new Judomaster bores me silly, however.

I'm *much* more interested and invested in Maxine, Tomcat and Damage and want to read more about them. Not to mention my favorite JSAers Sandman and Obsidian. I think Sandy, at least, is a full-fledged member- not so sure about Todd.

I *really* want to see some stories featuring those two.

An Injustice Society appearance is overdue, too.

I read it and I like it. I always thought the title needed more new blood. Becareful what I wish for BUT I am still enjoying it.

We now know there will be a another JS title (JSInfinity). I am guessing we will see lots of characters there. I'm personally not a big fan of Alan Scott. My favorite characters have been the newer guys. So I don't mind new characters.

Loved the page with all the potentinal members. Aquaman NEEDS a Geoff Johns revamp! Spidey didn't need OMD/BND but Aquaman certainly does. Hopefully Geoff will do something similiar to what he did with Hawkman.

Hey, I think all the new blood might be so that when the old timers go back to Earth-2 at the end of Final Crisis there's still someone around to claim the Justice Society title.

Just a thought...

What the heck was Hercules doing here? Doesn't line up with his appearance in the WONDER GIRL mini which just concluded at all.

I know there's the slain gods subplot humming along, but he just seemed a poor choice. If his motivation had carried through from the WG mini, would I still feel the same way? Not sure...

Gog and Magog... I think this'll read better once the storyline's over. I don't think it's 'bad'-- I just do not feel the enthusiasm for the Kingdom Comeization of the JSA or DCU in general.

Did we even know that Black Lightning had another daughter?

Her electronic... disadvantage is interesting. I hope she interacts with Citizen Steel. Their limitations could create a common bond.

Who's the purple head at the end? Are we supposed to recognize him?

Again, I'm left eager to read stories or even scenes featuring Sandman, Obsidian, Hourman and Liberty Belle, GL, etc.

I lament the cancellation of the Classified series, as that would've been a good place for more JSA character studies. Perhaps the rumored second team will create room in this title...

I don't understand Black Lightning's daughter's inclusion in the JSA. BL wasn't affiliated with the JSA, was he?

Re: Black Lightning's daughter

It seems like they're really going for a Kingdom Come feel to the title lately. I think she's just supposed to represent that second generation of heroes that showed up in KC.

FOR THE RECORD DEPT:

Maxine's costume, including the leggings... has totally grown on me.

I might have mentioned this before but Maxine is a dead-ringer for Lady Cobalt (my soon to be bride). Its almost uncanny actually, especially the way Dale draws her.

Does she also love WICKED, Cobie?

SAND and OBSIDIAN had some brief but *very* effective moments in the most recent issue (#15?). Effective in presentation, though not in defeating the threat. Otherwise, this was very much a 'middle' issue. Lightning's growing on me.

The last page has another one of those glimpses of the future teases. Featuring a death of some sort and Power Girl on Earth 2. There were two more, but just now I can't recall them.

It was really great to see Obsidian actually get to do something. He's one of DC's more powerful characters and has a loyal fan base. He needs to do more than cast shadows on the wall. I hope more is coming soon.

#16 sure veered off into unexpected territory for me. I enjoyed the surprise-- now if Johns doesn't lead the story into the *next* obvious destination I've seen this sort of story taken, I'll *really* be pleasantly surprised.

Wonder if Damage will retain the changes he undergoes at issue's end?

And, to echo the big blue horned god, who's next?

prediction time here: If Lightning continues as a character beyond the story, her effect on electronic devises will be forgotten.

I'm getting a vibe like from that Simpsons Treehouse of Horror spoof of "To Serve Man." Where Lisa is "too smart for her own good."

Does the artist seem to be channeling Jack Kirby? I kinda liked it.

I wonder if Gog's horns will swivel up when he gets mad?

I'm not usually big on extended fight scenes, but the fight in the previous issues between the entire JSA and the human Gog (demi-Gog? ) was a lot of fun to watch and pretty creatively choreographed. My favorite part was when Obsidian went inside Gog and blinded him, the Gog fired his staff into his own mouth to get Obsidian out. Neat!

So now we have the 'real' Gog who heals dying people in Africa and damage's scarred face. I wonder if he'll heal Star Man's schizophrenia?

I hope Geoff has something unusual up his sleeve. We've certainly seen the 'benevalent godlike entity actually wants to take over the world' bit enough. So hopefully Geoff will surprise us with this.

Wow, the JLA is getting LEGION-HUGE! Kewl!

Some more wish fulfillment in #17-- for Sandman, Power Girl and Dr. Mid-nite, this time. I felt sorry for Mr. Terrific, but thought that the very things he was regretting in his own character would probably come into play as positives by the time Kingdom quits Coming.

There was some good interaction between Mr. T and Pieter, a duo I always enjoy reading (I'd buy a "Mr. Terrifc and Doctor Mid-Nite" series). Also, a nice scene between Maxine and Damage intrigued me.

Gog ignores Citizen Steel. Does he have anything in common with Mr. Terrific?

I liked the WW bit. Hopefully, this doesn't count as the JLA/JSA team-up of the year.

Gog continues to defy easy categorization, which leaves the reader uneasy. I find that a good thing, but I think it is an uncomfortable state, which is the reason I think this storyline's beginning to get some sour responses.

I quite like it, from issue to issue. But I am looking very much forward to the day when Kingdom Come has gone and went.

I'm kind of ready for a Superman-less JSA, too.

I read 17 last night, and JSA continues to be a fave. I even choked up a time or two while reading this issue.

I just can't escape the "this is going to go horribly wrong" feeling... I really don't WANT it to go horribly wrong. I actually LIKE Gog. I don't want him to turn evil or have some agenda.

It's a compelling storyline for this reader.

Also... Power Girl on Earth 2? CAN'T WAIT for the annual. The cover colicit for # 20 has me salivating, also...

Talk about torn... I've grown to accept Power Girl as she is, an Earth 1 resident.

I don't know *HOW* I really feel about it all... I guess I want what Power Girl wants.

Neither has to be true for things to go horribly wrong.

The Justice Society of America Annual #1's out. Featuring Power Girl's journey, thanks to Gog, to Earth 2 and a version of the pre-Crisis JSA (now called Justice Society Infinity).

A nice bit of nostalgia, with enough changes to allow for the passage of time.

Joker-haters will get a nice little thrill at the events in this issue, I think.

And Huntress fans will probably be pleased, as she gets the lion's share (and then some) of the focus. My one complaint is that all the other characters get shorted in the characterizaion department.

The mystery of a second Power Girl is a nice surprise (at least to me).

I would've preferred that an annual be more self-contained... or that it *ended* an ongoing storyline rather than beginning one, but I guess I can see the reasoning behind the opposite approach.

I bought the annual and was disappointed. I'm not a regular JSA reader and don't intend to add it to my list. I remember a time when annuals were stand alone issuses. Not this one. I got in on the middle of a pretty complicated story. I started out confused and ended up being just as confused at the end.

I got and read this today... was actually pretty excited about it.

I went into figuring one of 2 things... it would tell the complete tale of Peegee's reuniting with her old pals, and end up with her back in the DCU-proper JSA in time for the next issue OR it would somehow setup her upcoming series.

It did neither but as a JSA regular and Ifinity Inc (80s!) fan, it still pleased me.

I guess I'm relieved that Earth-2 has its Peegee back and our Karen can eventually get beck to the DCU-proper JSA. Unless there's something more happening there, which might be likely.

And I can't tell you how happy I was to see Sly, Beth, Yolanda, Jade, Hector and especially Lyta alive and well on Earth-2.

It was like a continuation of Infinty Inc had the Wolfman CRISIS never happened.

Of note is that apparently the Atom is the only original member of the JSA still regularly active on Earth-2, though others answered the call to arms.

I'm getting flashbacks to that original "Star Trek" episode where Kirk et al run into Apollo, who's refusing to fade away with the rest of the old gods - he wasn't malevolent, but there was no longer a place for him.

Not really a mystery to me. After all, if duplicates of Jay Garrick, Alan Scott, Nuklon, Norda, Jade, Obsidian, et. al. were made for DC-Earth, why not a duplicate Power Girl?

Hmmm. But she- and we- were told that she *wasn't* from DC-Earth and was from Earth 2. This could be another Earth, or a giant trick or one of the PG's either a hoax or not who they think they are.

Anyway, I didn't see it coming.

I agree though- it isn't one of those surprises that keep feeling like a surprise, if you know what I mean.

I loved Huntress in this issue. It was just perfect. One thing kind of odd though. We were led to assume that Huntress has always been in love with Robin. But wasn't Robin the adopted son of Bruce?

I believe this is one example of taboo that I can't handle.

I liked the group portrait at the end of the annual.

It did highlight one of the problems I have with the current title, though -- too many characters! Aren't there now more JSAers than Legionnaires? I count 23 JSA members, not including Ma Hunkel or the Kingdom Come Superman, and counting Jakeem/Thunderbolt as one member.

It's not that I'm opposed to large groups per se, but over the last couple of issues, it just feels like most of the members are being given short shrift. If the title could spread the focus around somehow, I'd feel much more comfortable with the super-sized roster.

Nice annual. Loved the Ordway art and the focus on the Huntress--Helena Bertinelli always seemed like a pale reflection of Batman's daughter!

Man, it SUCKS to be Power Girl! What the HELL?!?!? Will the poor girl ever have a home of her own? That's just mean, Geoff!

Nice to see glimpses of those Earth-2 characters I've missed so much, especially those who've been dead in the regular DCU for a while. I wonder if E2 Wonder Woman is still alive? I assume Ted Knight, Dr. Mid-Nite and some of the others are still alive there, too? I guess we'll find out more as the JSA storyline unfolds.

But isn't that true of Jay Garrick, Alan Scott, Jade, et.al.? Power Girl was just the hardest to work in of the Earth-2 characters because of her ebing the Supergirl of Earth-2.

A sort of flaw in the story (which I'll overlook unless Geoff Jonhs has a good explanation) is why Gog didn't send Jay Garrick et.al. also back to Earth-2.

No, to the best of my knowledge, E2 Robin was only Bruce's ward. He was never an adopted son. (For that matter, did Bruce ever adopt Nightwing? I know he did Tim but I don't know whether or not he ever officially adopted Dick. I think I remember this being commented upon during the time where the Adoption of Tim was being played out.)

Even if he was adopted however, I don't think it would be impossible for them to become a couple> Since they share no blood ties there is no reason for them not to be together although it might go against the conventions of the era.

Some states do not allow the marriage of step-siblings, even though there are no blood ties there either. The reasoning is that marriage would alter the already existing family bonds.

There is a line in the TT books - I believe at Donna's wedding where Bruce say's he's sorry he never adopted Dick but does see Dick as his son. Dick responds that it's OK, he became family in the ways that matter.

Or something like that.

I remember a '90s Batman story where Bruce legally adopted Dick as an adult, so he would easily be able to inherit his estate.

Seems to me that E2 Huntress and Robin teamed up a lot in their appearances. I wonder how much older this Dick is than Helena? Possibly, anywhere between ten and twenty years, I'd imagine. Nothing wrong with that these days, but a bit odd, seeing as how Dick probably babysat her and what-not.

Which is probably why Dick is clueless about how Helena feels. He probably still thinks of her as the kid he use to babysit.

Hmmm...was there an E2 Barbara Gordon?

The metatext of this annual story is fascinating. After 20 years, through the intervention of a "god," Power Girl (representing we, the JSA/Earth-2 fans) goes home to Earth-2. And this certainly appears to be Earth-2, up to the COIE point and after when most of Infinity, Inc. got slaughtered. The feel and luck is pitch-perfect, with Jerry Ordway delivering art in a style that fits seamlessly with his efforts circa 1984.

And yet, the effect on this reader was very much like that on Power Girl -- the sense of misplacement, of things not being quite right. As angry as I am about how many Earth-2 characters were treated in the last 20 years, I find I prefer the ones who are left. The whole Flash mythos is so much richer for having Jay Garrick in it. Alan Scott's losses and travails make him an even more noble character. Wildcat is far cooler now, on New Earth, than he ever was on Earth-2, and he was pretty cool. And my lord, the cattywampus New Earth Hawkman has so much more oomph than his bland Earth-2 pedecessor.

Then, what do you know, ANOTHER Power Girl shows up and turns the entire JSI lickity split against OUR Power Girl, and before you know it the JSI is transformed into a vengeful mob of continuity-enforcing fanboys, determined to expunge the less-than-perfect Kara Zor-L from their museum-quality period piece of a world.

By the end of the book, I had very little interest left in a continuation of this Earth-2. After all, wasn't it supposed to be the land of better good guys, the Golden Age that the Earth-2 Superman wanted to recreate in Infinite Crisis? And yet, we have Helena Wayne completely lost, tied to a man she doesn't really love, so upset she's ready and willing to kill the Joker in retaliation. This is like expecting to watch a JFK hagiography on the History Channel and tuning in to Mad Men instead. Instead of the Golden Age, we get its ugly underbelly. Earth-2 isn't perfect. It's a world of repressed feelings with characters stuck in creative amber for the last 20 years and who are turning homicidal as a result.

One is left to wonder how much of this Johns consciously intended and how much just leaks out of his continuity/fanboy creative unconscious. Really, unless JSofA is relocating to Earth-2, and I don't think it is--Johns and Ross have just done too good a job giving it a rationale separate from JLA or any other team--then Earth-2 has to turn out to be undesirable. The characters (and us fan boys) could NOT spend the next umpteen years pining for the old days. Johns is showing us that the old days aren't as great as we remember them.

The Golden-Age JSAers that Gog met were the New Earth versions of those characters; they didn't get sent to Earth 2 because they didn't not-belong on New Earth (Huntress mentioned that the Earth 2 Jay Garrick was still around, though retired as the Flash).

Conspicuous by his absence was Henry King, Jr./Brainwave II; I wonder if he'll turn up later? (hopefully not as a villain; I always liked him)

I didn't catch Brainwave's no-show... kind-of unnerving for me now that you mention it... I've disliked the character since he erased Lyta's memories of her parents (and yes, I realize it had to be done so that Lyta could survive in a post-Crisis world) in INFINITY INC # 27... my brief review of which you can read HERE: Kewl moments of Comics Past

Whoah, Brainwave. Bet he's behind the 2nd Power Girl. That's right up his dad's alley!

Their mutual attraction was a plot point in the HUNTRESS back-up series collected in a recent trade. Johns is clearly riffing off of this.

He isn't clueless; he, like everyone else, has assumed she's chosen someone else.

I finally got this yesterday.

First, it's so great to see all my Infinitor friends again. It would have been cliché, but I kind of was hoping there would be a scene where Karen told most of the gathered heroes "In my world...you're all...dead!" On the other hand, I think that would have taken away from the downcast faces expressing grief over the death of Kal-L.

Still, the Infinitors have, collectively, received some of the worst treatment of any of DC's characters. At some point, every one of them has turned evil, lost their powers, died, or some combination thereof. Poor Hector has died three times!

It is always such a treat to see Jerry Ordway's art. He draws the definitive Jennie-Lynn and Lyta. I loved the new designs for Hector and Norda's outfits.

Rick and Sand are both missing from the gathering, which then makes Todd the only character who is a regular in the JSA book who appears in this annual--other than Karen herself. It will be interesting to see how he will be treated here.

I'm looking forward to whatever happens next.

Well, I thought the annual was great. Poor Power Girl.

But really, seeing those Infinitors, and especially the Atom, giving a real sense of continuation of Earth-2, well that was great. Especially by Ordway. It made me think of many of you--those of you who truly knew Earth-2, rather than I, who only knew of it through back issues in the years after Crisis. It made me really feel good for those fans.

What I like the most is the idea that Earth-2, and all the other 'main' Earths, still exist, as if Crisis happened and they continued on thereafter. So Earths 2, 4, S and X never were destroyed, and essentially, only Earth-1 was changed post-Crisis to a 'new Earth' (unless Earth-1 exists somewhere, which I can't help but does, which would really be cool).

But I agree with Doublechinner--Geoff does a good job of showing you can't go home again. I'd rather read about the current JSA as it exists now, than a continuation of Earth-2. But I'm just really glad Earth-2 exists as it once was, surviving the Crisis. That's comforting.

JSA #18: Magog finally debuts. With little to no surprise.

Hawkman's narration communicated the recent blunt violence of the character well. I wonder how many times over the years Hawks and Jay have had 'discussions'?

Like Secret Invasion in the Savage Land, this story seems stalled.

I'm not intrigued by a Damage/Judomaster pairing (she bores me), but I liked the page that had her doing a split while eyeing Grant as he makes a bit of a fool of himself. LOVE the panel of Ma Hunkel tucking a still-slumbering Sandman into bed. "It doesn't matter how you're getting a good night's sleep, Sandy, you take it." Wise woman, that.

Unless, of course, he can't wake up.

Power Girl's story from the annual continues here, with her making a surprise visit to a member of the regular JSA cast's unsuperheroic counterpart on Earth-whatever.

Have there been any hints about what sort of story will be coming *after* Gog/Magog/Kingdom Come Revisited?

I don't know. It seems like they have enough to deal with for the next 6 months.

Yeah, no surprize who Magog turned out to be.

I am liking Amazing Man.

For after this story-line, I'd like to see a couple of 2 issue stories focusing on just a few of the members, specifically the new members.

It's good to see Thom without the schizophrenia (and the mask).

I wonder how long that'll last?

From CBR: Eaglesham Talks \'JSA\'

And I wonder if being schizoid is why Stuey won't show his face...?

[rips off mask to reveal... <STAY TUNED>]

I'd like to see that too. Has he had three lines since being cured? There seemed to be some big portent of Doom he recognised the instant he was cured, but there hasn't been anything mentioned and he hasn't done anything since.

Umm... when Gog created Magog.... what did he do with his PANTS?

And Gog said: Nice pants!

Apparently, we won't find out Thom's "true mission" until the JSA Kingdom Come Special: The Kingdom (boy, what a mouthful!), scheduled for November 19.

Dunno if the big, ominous secret that's been hinted at relates to that mission or not... but, in any case, it seems odd that he hasn't really said or done anything yet, if indeed there's something important to be said or done.

Even more embarrassingly, Gog failed to make Magog anatomically correct! (We were spared the sight of that, thankfully...)

Apparently, when Gog resurrected him, He left his "little soldier" dead...

His military rank was "lance corporal"... *teehee*

DON'T ASK, DON'T TELL, SOLDIER!

I don't think it's fair to compair tho a meta...

I thought I read somewhere that Geoff Johns (or whoever first came up with the "third smartest" line) said in an interview that he didn't have a specific #1 and #2 in mind -- just that #3 sort of sounded right.

Of course, "smartness" can be measured in many ways. Some who are brilliant at math or science might have no facility for languages or art, and vice versa.

That said, I would think that some good candidates for #1 and #2 would be Lex Luthor, Dr. Sivana, and Bruce Wayne (though honestly, if we was really that smart, he should have been able to figure out the identity of Sue Dibny's killer almost immediately).

By the way, I thought Damage's lines from #18 (see my sig) were among the most laugh-inducing in recent memory.

I can't read them in context (Judomaster caressing Damage's face with a come-hither look, and Damage responding with a $#!T-eating grin) without cracking up!

Gog was just granting my wish,

I begin to like JSA more and more every month. It was a little too much of recruiting since Lightning Saga, but the recent Gog story really captured my interest. Very clear-cut, mysterious without being too cryptic, and a thrilling connection to an existing DC Elseworld. I like it. I like Gog as a character. Like his smile. Though i fear he's about to loose it soon

Never was a JSA guy though I collected most of the major "team books" over the last two decades. Still hunting down the last Johns run on Ebay. But while JLA really seems lame most issues, JSA really got me. Kudos to Johns... again...

Ha! So now I've been lucky! Just won an auction at German ebay for the complete JSA series ##1-87, I'm really happy! Lots of stuff to read for me. Cost me about 100 bucks, but I guess that should be worth ist...

Congrats on your purchase, CK.

$100 is probably better than if you'd bought them brand new off the shelf. SCORE!

That's something I'm often thinking when I have a look at the incredible 2,99$ pricetag nowadays... most of the stuff I'm buying I would be able to track down much cheaper half a year later via Ebay. Heck, sometimes it's even cheaper to buy the Trade Paperback than to buy the single issues. Doesn't this kind of hurt the market?

The 100 bucks (67 Euros, to be exact) for the JSA series has to be considered a rather expensive deal as far as German ebay is concerned - mostly, you can get whole series for about half that price, like I did get a complete run of Preacher Trades for 35 bucks two years ago. The comics are worth so much more - but obviously, at least in Germany there are much more people selling than buying US comic books...

So, collectors luck - I'm very much looking forward to Johns' first run, very curious how this book got so "big" again...

Juuuust...keep rubbing that in.





Nice buy. I followed the series up to about the Black Adam wars. A terrific read.

Don't be too upset, I lost about 150 bucks buying this "Countdown" series... DC owes me one

Let's initiate a class action lawsuit. I was down about $75 before I just couldn't take it any more.

Well, I considered it collectable due to Karate Kid and Duo Damsel appearing... so it's even worse: I can't even SELL it again, it's just part of my collection now like the Timber Wolf mini...

As for the JSA: I really am kind of lost here: From the Wikipedia article I know about the convoluted continuity (yes! Another series which has one - don't you just love DC?) of JSA over the years. Especially with CoiE doing so much damage.

But where do I have to put all these series: All Star Squadron was pre-crisis, but what was Infinity Inc and Young All-Stars? What was the last thing that happened before 1999's JSA #1 - and in which series did it happen?

Infinity Inc. (not the new series about Steel's niece and Luthor's Everyman project) and Young All-Stars are both pre-crisis. I think JSA #1 was the first JSA/Earth-2 heroes series after Crisis.

And pre-crisis Infintiy Inc. was the sons & Daughters of the JSA (more or less); Young All-Stars was set in WWII (Like All-Star Squadron) and was like thier teen Titans (or Marvel's Young Invaders)

Ok, let's simplify it all... take WWII. Add some costumed crusaders there. (And Wonder Woman I/II (depending on your 'glass full/glass empty' take on time travel).) They are the JSA. When the war years reach the US, they are the A.S.S. And then the anti-Communist McCarthyism movement expel them...

Until heroes like Superman and the others surface. Now, remember, as IRL time passes... the gap between their forced retirement and their return gets longer and longer, until DC decides to retcon WWII to the Vietnam War. (They should do it by 2020, btw. Speed Force or no Speed Force, Jay Garrick can't live forever.) But the JSA is filled with the same veterans, and their sons, daughters, and protegés are sick of it. Their membership to the JSA are denied, and they form Infinity, Inc. SSK becomes Skyman, and soon dies. Then Zero Hour, when the effects of the rejuvenating Chinese medicine that those geezers been taking...

And then the JSA becomes the veteran/protegé team we all come to love. They had a headlining feature for two decades, counting the WWII years and JSA #1-... while the Legion had four decades of it (not counting their brief stints from '58 onwards, and the brief pause as a backup filler). Not much to complain.

I'm actually re-reading the full JSA run that you've bought and I'm surprised by how much I'd forgotten and how good it actually is. There's some brilliant stuff in there that I feel is missing somehow from the current series (which I've stopped buying because I'm just not very interested in it any mroe).

As for how it fits in with continuity...

Well, it's a bit vague but mostly all continuity stands with a few tweaks. It's safer to assume that all JSA, Infinity Inc and ASS stories happened mostly as published unless you get something that directly contradicts that. The age issue of the characters is dealt with in various ways (Green Lantern/Sentinal not aging properly because of the Green Flame, Wildcat having nine lives) but mostly because of them absorbing Ian Karkull's temporal energies and so not aging properly (which also explains the originals children not againg properly). If you want the full post-crisis JSA stuff it's also worth finding the short JSA series from the early 90s by Strazewski and Parobeck (about nine issues I think. Reintroduces the JSA into modern continuity and features Jessie Quick prominently, all happening pre-Zero Hour) and the Justice Society Returns mini-series that preceded the Johns/Robinson/Goyer series. There both really good little series but they help give you the set up for the full series.

Really though pretty much everything that you need to know about the Johns/Robinson/Goyer series is contained within that title. It does include new characetrs introduced in other series (like Dr Midnight and Mr Terrific) but they're all brought in in such a way that it doesn't really matter if you're not already familiar with them. You are also in for a treat with some of the artwork as well. Sadowski is superb and the Leonard Kirk issues are stunning.

Thanks for your explanations! Turns out that this JSA affair seems to be even more complicated than I thought - there were two short-lived series at the beginning of the 90s, some other mini-series and just reading All Star Squadron #1, I suddenly realize that this is NOT about the JSA...

Confusing, just the way I like it - I had a ball when I started reconstructing the history of the Legion 1994, when I returned to the field after German Legion comics had ceased to exist after #300 in the 80s... splendid.

With THE KINGDOM oneshot, the expected hammer begins to fall.

Some fine scenes here-- Atom-Smasher confronting Damage... and later vice versa... were highlights. Though Damage does seem more simple-minded than I remember the character being.

Sanderson Hawkins' story was also very well done. I'd totally buy a Sand/Sandman series. I was surprised that he was referred to as just 'Sand' once again, though. Which is it?

I'm glad he has the opposite reaction of Damage to his 'boon'. Hope he reaches some middle ground with his visions. Otherwise, this character'll crack, sooner or later.

My heart cracked a bit, when Sand's case reached its unfortunate conclusion. Cracked some more reading poor Citizen Steel's ongoing hope-- one destined to go unmet, I think.

The shift at issue's end was at once surprising and totally expected. Not a standard combination. The mood created earned whatever predictability there was, however. I was getting impatient with the series, even though I enjoyed each issue. The payoff appears that it will be worth it, though.

For the first time in a couple of months, I'm looking forward to the next installment of *this* storyline, as opposed to looking past it to future issues of JUSTICE SOCIETY, one of my favorite titles.

And the new regular team on JSA will be...

Bill Willingham and Matt Sturges.

Not who i would have thought of first, but i will give it the benefit of the doubt. Willingham is fantastic on Fables. And if he handles it the way he does fables, with respect to the origin material, i think it could be great.

Sturges, the name is familiar, but i can't say i know it right off hand.

Jerry Ordway will be the transition guy.

My first instinct was to wince for some reason. Maybe because SHADOWPACT never lived up to what it might have been, for me.

However, I read some posts by Matt Sturges at the COMICBLOC JSA forum, and his responses to readers' questions actually has me looking forward to their stint, to some degree.

I'm excited about these two guys. They have a great synergy and have shown the skill with large casts (Fables moreso than Shadowpact.)

The only Willingham thing that I remember reading was the Elementals, which I did like. I've probably read other things, but I'm not always conscious of who wrote what.

Me too. I followed Willingham's early stuff (like the Elementals) and I think he's fantastic when he takes his time on a project. When he rushes it for a deadline it's not so great but then again he's had several years of practice at the profession since I last followed his work. I'm definitely willing to give him a chance on this.

That last page of issue #22 sure is beautiful. Nice to see a Ross Legion.

AAAAGGGGHHHHHHH! Legion and JSA in one week, and i haven't made it to the store yet.

Geh...must ...not ...let...wife...hook...me...on...more shows....online....

Sturges is kinda Willingham's right-hand guy, isn't he... didn't he finish up Salvation Run for Willingham?

I'll miss Johns but maybe a change will do JSA good.

i'll be sad to see Geoff go from 'JSA' !

it's been my overall favourite book since it first came out !

i haven't followed the new guy's work, so it will be interesting to see what they bring to the team ??

Matthew.

#22 had a very powerfull ending, for those familiar with Kingdom Come and The Kingdom. Nice legion reference too!

I don't have my Kingdome Come handy-whose funeral is that 20 years later-Captain Marvel's?

And do any of you think the last page represents a sneak peak at the "new" Legion we will see after Lo3W?

It's Batman's.

Friggen' awesome.

Nuff bout that.

Who didn't see this coming for Gog from the beginning of this storyline? Still, I'm a bit disappointed that the inevitable was, in fact, inevitable.

It was a treat to see that LSH. Will they ever appear again?

The next couple of issues are going to feel a bit strange, knowing that new writers are coming.

I sort of miss the day when you wouldn't know the creative team was changing until *maybe* the issue before the big turnover.

To me, it ended a bit abruptly.

AFOB, I don't think so. I believe that was just a chance for Alex Ross to draw the Legion again, like he did in KC #1. The characters appeared to be the same (same Superboy and Supergirl uniform variations, etc). Also the fact that this Legion is the Legion of KC earth #22 rather than our "New Earth" (post Superboy-Prime punch Inifinite Crisis).

I would have to say that the post-KC Legion is the reboot team (with the addition of Catspaw and a Bouncing Boy power-up for Chuck, both of which would be okay in my book). So many of the characters had those uniforms. Maybe the team just hadn't met Superboy/Supergirl yet during our reading of the reboot era.

Just my ramblings, don't worry about continuity...

I loved the ending.

While Kal's longevity has been questioned/extended, it seems a brilliant idea to have him as an old man in the Legion's time as shown.

It could be easily overused, though.

I always feel a little sorry for poor ol' Superman whenever they decide he has a mega-prolonged life. It can't be much fun outliving everyone again and again.

What gets me is that apprantly, the aging process slows down as he gets older. He has a normal young adult lifespan, then hits about forty or fifty, and apparantly stays that age for about 800 years, then ages into the body of a man about 80 years old for around 200 years or so at least.

Guess the writers all think youth is wasted on the young.

perhaps... but with only a few snapshots to cover all of the centuries, there could be other factors in play as well that suspended his aging for centuries on top of his pre-existing slow aging. Or he spent some time in suspended animation, which we didn't see.

I probably didn't say it correctly. That seems to happen with a lot of writers, not just of comics.

Someone is born immortal or becomes immortal at an early age. The will age to a certain point, then it seems to be arrested.

Look at Vandal Savage. He became immortal as an adult, and has stayed at relatively the same age. Now, that's fine. Say that the process is so slowed that it takes millennia to notice.

But then you get other characters, in all different genre's, that will become immortal at say 5, and they will age to their mid-teens to early twenties...and then not age for decades or centuries. And then suddenly, they get old.

Its' just weird.

#23 sees the beginning of a possible change in the guard.

I found Courtney's role problematic. On the one hand, seeing her maturation's a beautiful thing. On the other hand, it's quite annoying for her to be deciding the fate of characters like Sandman who've been around much longer than she.

Though she really only speaks about her 'contemporaries', doesn't she?

Wonder if this conversation will continue next month?

I liked Atom-Smasher's return to the fold (assuming they let him back in). Damage and Judomaster are almost as lame a couple as Invisible Kid and Gazelle. So fitting that both pairs get exposure the same week. Ugh.

Double Ugh for the number in the short black skirt at issue's end.

Please. Enough.

Sigh.

I don't think they talked about Sandman did they? I was pretty sure everyone mentioned (other than Hawkman), were junior on the team to Courtney. I thought it was a great scene to show that she really is a valued and respected member of the team whose opinions are as valid as any of the other "Senior" members.

I loved Stargirl's part, too, and I know Sylvester Pemberton would be proud!

JUSTICE SOCIETY OF AMERICA #24: Mostly the Marvel families... which isn't a bad thing, by any means. There're just so many other JSA characters that need fleshing out.

Nevertheless, the origin of Cap Marvel was an enjoyable retelling with some nice, atmospheric art.

I can't help but cringe everytime I see the pink-haired Mary Marvel, though. With any luck, that character's going to get some refocus by the time Johns and Ordway are done.

It's just as sad to see the once-compassionate, heroic Isis corrupted by vengeance-thirst. Believable, though.

Wildcat/Atom-smasher is a surprising dynamic. I get the feeling these two are gonna be sorting things out with their fists before too long. Probably, it'd be good for each-- in comic book world.

O&O: Power Girl spars with Magog... while a mini-recruitment drive sees Jay speaking to someone with a crown on their pocket? And Mr. America seems to be taking on a sidekick (who salutes him-- without sarcasm). I have no idea who either of these two charcters are. Did Mr. America have a sidekick?

Concluding glimpses: Magog takes on Damage (or Atom-Smasher?) and Wildcat while Jay crouches before a glowing black egg... Mr. Terrific lies in a pool of blood... GL battles Blackthorne? Wildcat, Mr. America and Judomaster fight... someone alien-looking...

#25-- So, will the Marvel-related events work themselves out here or somewhere else? 'Cause it's the dangler of Demosthenes to leave hanging over the collective readership's head.

I would've liked to see Johns address more of the characters he's populated this title with before he leaves, but I guess he's telling the story he wanted to tell.

Loved seeing Atom-smasher back in the fold. The 'everybody's included' end to the membership discussions was a pleasant turn of events-- I first typed surprise, but decided I really wasn't. Surprised that is.

I'm curious about what's next.

It figures that if Black Adam is the opposite of Captain Marvel, there'd be an opposite of Shazam.

I hope it's Oggar, as that would be a nice node to the Marvel mythos.

That said, I'm glad the "evil" phase is over for Mary Marvel, but not sure I liked how some of the stuff played out. Specifically Shazam's reaction, just seemed way out of character for him and having him solve the BA mess didn't make me happy as too often the wizard seems to solve the problems, kinda makes the Marvels pointless if they can't handle the problems and daddy wizard has to step in. I understand this was a big "level" type of threat, but considering the past few Marvel stories we have
---Superman/Shazam crossover with Eclipso (not the mini but in the Super books) where the wizard comes to save the day
---DoV CM is a holding action until the wizard is ready to fight (and doesn't succeed)
---IC (not much of anything)
---TOS, Billy is the white wizard, Freddy is jerked around by gods of magic AND Billy (it was a learning experience *yuck*)
---Countdown-Mary goes evil and no one shows up
---FC-Mary is still evil and Freddy takes forever to do anything about it (and gets BA's help)
---JSA- Wizard saves day

So you see, I'm a bit tired of the Marvels constantly getting jerked around and not mastering their own fate

I figure the future of the Marvel family will be played out elsewhere, but I'm not optimistic that it will be anytime soon as no one has mentioned plans (and in the last 20 Questions session with Didio he only mentioned plans for BA).

Oh, and the ending with Adam, weird. But still, a fun read and solid issue, it's just the Marvels are my favorite characters and I wanted a bit more to this story than what I got.

I bought Power of Shazam last weekend to get a better understanding, but I'm kinda confused as to what time the graphic novel took place in. And I was surprised as hell to find out Black Adam didn't ALWAYS act they way he does. For God's sake I wouldn't have been surprised if Theo Adam had a Brooklyn accent.

Aside from my usual disappointment about how the Marvel Family are handled, the last couple issues were quite tolerable.

I did like that Black Adam has more to him (and indeed some recent history) rather than just being the cardboard-cutout he always has been otherwise.

My revision of BA was an early-20th C origin, maybe a reincarnation (thematic or actual) of an older ancient figure.

But a Brooklyn accent would nave been too much.

I thought the Wizard was kind of an ass to poor Billy. I hope that this isn't the end of the Marvel Family...

JUSTICE SOCIETY OF AMERICA #26: I'm curious, are there any readers of this title who are unaware of the nature of Geoff Johns' relationship to Star-girl?

I'd like to know what those readers thought of this issue, if they exist.

Hard for me to think about it without thinking of his reasons for creating Courtney.

With those in mind, I liked the majority of the issue. I like the father/son bond that's growing between the Wildcats-- like Atom Smasher's return to form-- like the Thunderbolt kid's ode to Star-girl-- always like the Society having birthday parties, Thanksgiving dinners, etc. That should be a part of their lives, more than many other teams.

Though the panel with all the heroes looming over the dentist as he worked on Star-girl was comedic and a fun little bit- it sort of took me right out of things. I mean, that just wouldn't happen with 'normal' family circles, much less costumed superheroes.

I'll miss the work these creators have put into JSA, but look forward to new takes on these characters.

Issue #26 was very much Geoff's farewell to Courtney. I'm sure that giving up writing her was difficult for him.

Regarding #27,it's always great to see Jerry Ordway's art, especially the shot of the original Infinitors on the first page. It's way past time for an issue to showcase Obsidian and I'm glad one of his creators wrote and drew the issues. It showed again just how powerful Todd is. He pretty much held the rest of the JSA at bay single-handedly. It also showed how ready to doubt him everyone was. Rick especially surprised me. As Albert pointed out, he was very upset about Jesse, but to be so ready to doubt two colleagues who have served with him on two different teams, was a bit upsetting.

So, what is the status of Todd's relationship with Damon? It hasn't been addressed in the JSA book at all.

Of course, I loved Albert's comment about it seeming twenty years ago when Infinity was founded. Of course, it was more like 25!

Revealing that Obsidian's most important story in this series occurs without the character really even appearing, isn't it?

Given the title, GHOST IN THE DARKNESS, I was halfway expecting another trip down badguy lane for Todd and was pleasantly surprised that it doesn't *seem* like that's the direction for Jerry Ordway's story.

I liked seeing Mr. Bones interacting with Atom-Smasher (who knew they were buddies?). Hope he'll be appearing here or elsewhere soon.

The hopping around possessing entity isn't new (or particularly appealing at the moment, see DEATHTRAP in TEEN TITANS land), but there was a wrinkle here that I liked and can't remember seeing quite like presented here. When the entity possesses one of the JSA, the possessed sees what they are doing against their will and keeps up a running commentary while doing it.

I'm not sure what to make of the WWII revenge spirit squad yet.

I hope the character appearing on the last page gives the team a run for their money... and then breaks all ties with the JSA.

Rockhopper- Todd's relationship with Damon hasn't been mentioned since MANHUNTER ceased publication, as far as I know. That series ended with a glimpse of the future, in which the pair was still together and raising a couple of super-powered kis of their own. (Not that that commits DC to adhering to that future)

Perhaps the upcoming Kate Spencer back-up will show the couple, but I wouldn't count on it. At least till the new writers on JSA get their lineup established.

Who's Damon?

Damon is Damon Matthews, Obsidian's partner, as seen in the late, lamented Manhunter series. He and Todd were portrayed as having a very solid relationship in that series, but, as Mystery Lad and I noted, their relationship hasn't been so much as acknowledged in the JSA's book.

Hmm, you know, after reading Power Girl and Terra, and thinking about how the Huntress and Robin of Earth-2, and Kole, originally died in Crisis, there are plenty of pieces to make a story where Karen has the chance to have a proper goodbye with her former best friend.

Re: Justice Society of America #27 & #28 - I was a big fan of these last two issues!

Something else else about them just felt so comfortable to me, almost like a relief.

I've always been a fan of Ordway's art so that probably played a part but more than that I think I also found the low-key, old-school charm of this story to be an extremely welcome change of pace from all the frantic energy and doom and gloom that seems to pervade most modern comics.

Which is weird because this story certainly didn't back away from the heavy subject matter what with its dealings with Japanese anger and American guilt over what occurred at Hiroshima and everything.

That's heavy stuff that I don't think I've ever seen explored in comics before and while this story didn't go all that in-depth on the subject I still appreciated the attempt that was made.

It was also nice to see the Spectre along on a JSA adventure after so long away from the team and I also appreciated other touches like the journalists catching us up on the story at the beginning (reminding us that when heroes get attacked in the middle of New York City there are actually a lot of other people around getting involved), the World War II focus of the story (to remind us where this team began) and especially the use of a fun, under-used, semi old-school villain like Kung as the main antagonist.

I love seeing non-marquee villains like him getting used with some actual respect for a change rather than just being the latest victims whenever some lazy writer wants to show us how "bad-ass" their new hero is or how crazy the Joker can be for the umpteenth time or something.

After the vomit-worthy pile of self-indulgent kack that was Geoff Johns' final issue of this book and the fact I do not have any faith in Willingham or Sturges to tell good superhero comics after reading their dreadful Salvation Run, I'm glad this story meant I will be able to leave this series on a high note.

I'm a little uneasy about issue #29.

Yeah, I'm an Obsidian fan.

Obsidian being trapped in that egg form is disquieting. I'd hate for DC's most visible openly gay man to be shunted aside. Whatever is going on, remember how powerful Todd is--he pretty much had the entire world wrapped in darkness at one point--so whatever this is, it's big.

The other thing that bothers me is Mr. Terrific's comment that Obsidian never leaves the Brownstone. In addition to evidence to the contrary in several issues of this series, what does that say about Damon?

I liked the ghostly typography used for the JUSTICE SOCIETY OF AMERICA logo on the cover of #30 (a haunt font?), and I enjoyed the appearance of a character I both like and dislike.

Here, it was like- since his power's been toned down and is currently well within superteam usage.

I liked his tweaked costume, too.

The story devolved into a bit of standard superteam dysfunction, mostly at the hands of Magog (surprise, surprise) and Wildcat. Clearly, this leads to the split-book scenario, which I'm not too happy about. Mostly because I don't care for Magog and his KINGDOM COME connotations.

I don't believe for a moment that Mr. Terrific is really dead.

The intrigue comes from the two new teen characters. Who is using who and from where and why and who is or isn't what they seem are questions I look forward to seeing answered.

Up until now I thought the JSA was the best written comic on the shelves, but the last two issues have seemed...off. I'll keep reading, but I'm concerned.

#31-- wherein we get to see what it would be like if Brainiac 5 got tall and skinny, slapped on some white makeup and a shaggilicious wig and decided to join the JSA.

Also, the cliffhanger with Mr. Terrific continues. Still don't believe he's dead.

The Magog stuff leading to the split book is, to me, painful to read. I'm disappointed in this direction for these particular characters. I still think that the writers are talented and hope there's better ahead.

It's been a long time since I've fully enjoyed a JSA comic.

So a few more issues into the Sturges / Willingham run, and I think they've turned it around. I'm actually enjoying the story quite a bit, though some parts still grate on me a little. For the most part though, they are doing a bunch of things right:

- The usage of so many bigtime villains at first vexed me, but now a few issues later I see they are kind of fleshing them out a bit more. They have a great visual but I generally hate when comic books throw together as many villains as possible with little reason why. Dr. Polaris and several others have worked well here though. Still, no explanation whatsoever as to why powerhouses Eclipso and Blackbriar Thorn were there so the writers aren't off the hook yet.

- Power Girl has been well done these last few issues. That has stood out for me. And Magog, who is a jerk no doubt, has at least had a pretty consistent and defined point of view. And I think that is representative of the entire writing for most the team. And one is getting a chance, little by little, to showcase their POV. Some of it is really well done (Jay Garrick, obviously) while some of it still made me cringe (Hourman: "Its called being dashing, Jess"), but for the most part its good.

- They are using almost the entire JSA, which I like. Mr. America, Liberty Belle, Citizen Steel, etc. are all having at least little moments througout the whole thing. It is almost Crisis-esque in the usage of various characters in various places, such as Dr. Fate and Dr. Mid-Nite off with Green Lantern doing their thing, while others are doing their own.

- The inclusion of Dr. Fate and is interaction with Alan and Jay is welcome.

- The mystery of the All-American Kid and King Chimera, which at first I found annoying has become very interesting to me. I suspect the All-American Kid is actually the problem after all, but we'll see. King Chimera is highly annoying as a character but could make for good drama.

- Overall, the tension is there in the story. At first, the arguing was incredibly annoying to see because we've seen this argument a million times over, particularly in the late 1980's. Buuuut, as the issues go on, it becomes less grating as the tension shifts towards real danger approaching the team.

- Its obvious Mr. Terrific isn't dead, less comic fandom crucify DC staffers, so that subplot isn't exactly wowing me. But I do like the usage of Dr. Fate, Alan and Dr. Mid-Nite, so I'll hope it somehow has a point to it all.

Is the JSA as good as it was before? Not yet. But its not bad. However, lets not look at the JSA with rose-colored glasses. Since the title restarted at #1, I don't think its been all that great either, or at least not as great as it once was under Geoff (or under the awesome Geoff/Goyer team). I think the change in creative team was probably a healthly thing for the series so I'm hoping the Sturges/Willingham combo continue to find their footing and things get better.

Speaking of JSA...

I agree 100% with Cobie. I knew there was going to be some transition growing pains but I was patient.

Still don't care for the villains though. I hate the mob of generic DC villains attack thing. Infact a few of the villains interested me. The guy from Shadowpact with the hounds and the moon lady. No need for the too often used Dr. Polaris.

Love the art. It's Pacheco-esque...and I don't mind that. Very dynamic.

The new team's initial arc is now over. And Obsidian's still an egg... the 'nice' seeming new guy was, of course and stereotypically, the traitor, while the jerk's now an accepted member.

Yawn.

Kid Carnivore or whoever he is just filled all the sidekick haters with all king of glee, I'm sure.

King Chimera at least does make good use of his illusion powers, similar to Shooter's Princess Projectra (will the Wilcox-masquerading follow the trend, or will she be more Sensor Girl, I wonder?)

The team splits, prematurely I thought. The whole thing seems like a curse left by Gog though his still-unwitting agent, Magog and his sparring partner, Power Girl. They should just get a hotel room. They'd be better off and so would the fans.

Euwwww. Give Kara much more credit than that, ML.

JSA All Stars #1 came out this week. Matt Sturges brought a more character to each of the cast members than we've seen in a while. And what he brought flowed from John's work on the title. Cyclone is still a bit flighty, Stargirl is that bright eyed sassy girl we met and watched grow in the JSA. Magog brings his irritating personality to the team, but in an organic way. It was a solid first issue.

Williams art fit the lively tone of the story. It was exciting, colourful, energetic- all things you'd want form a team of all stars. His work can be a bit busy at times, but he holds his own from the big splash pages to the small, quieter scenes.

I'm looking forward to seeing more of this book.

I liked the writing a lot. Hate to see another Pemburton dead, apparently, but still... (Butt still? ewwwww)

The art...I'd give it a C. I see a lot of potential, but at times its very much too busy and the characters seen out of proportion. The best example I can think of is that at one point Power Girl's bicep seems to make a right turn back to her elbow.

I'm wary of the $3.99 JSA ALL-STARS price tag long term. I'll have to check to see if there were extra pages. I too thought it was a solid enough first issue.

I'm still onboard for JSA as well.

I think the first issue is my last. Didn't care for the writing at all, but the bar might be set high for JSA. I am certainly not going to pay $4 for it. At this point, I'm hoping the story-telling will pick up in the main book (I subscribe!). The new new new new Fate has potential, but I hope he doesn't walk around bumping into walls for very long.

I liked JSA:All Stars.

I didn't care for JSA. Willingham didn't wow me with his first issue. The story wasn't engaging, and the characters felt flat and generic. I'll give the man a couple of issues to get a handle on things. But I expected more.

I've been wary of this split and the new direction in general since Willingham and Sturges took over. I just read All-Stars # 1 today and JSA #33 (the last "merged" issue) a few days ago, and I'm still undecided whether I'll be sticking around longterm.

In hindasight the initial storyline of the new direction was obviously all set-up for this split. Certainly, this direction feels more writer-driven than character-driven, but I suppose its roots were in the divide shown in Johns' Gog storyline.

The problem is that the threat has been so nebulous and undefined since the new creative team took over. It was revealed in JSA 33 that the two threats, the all-out villain assault and the intrigue in the brownstone, were apparently coincedental and unrelated.

JSA All-Stars finally showed us who was aparently behind the mass villain attack. I liked the bad guy reveal here because I thought he was one of their more impressive foes from early Johns/Goyer storylines, but I'm confused about what the interest in Stargirl is. I'll admit my memory of the earlier storyline is far from perfect, so maybe I'm just forgetting stuff. I was also pleased to see a legacy villain show up who I hadn't been aware of before. (I'm guessing he came from Infinity Inc., which I have little experience with.) From what I can tell, he wasn't one of the two characters killed on the last page. It's also nice to see something's brewing with Sand.

Having not gotten to JSA 34 yet, I have no comment on the first Willingham solo book. I'd hazrd that in addition to showing the "old-school" half of the team primarily, it will also explore the separate threat from the opening storyline involving the Obsidian egg. I'm glad that the new Dr. Fate will be staying on but am missing Hawkman and Atom Smasher.

So all I know at this point is I'm definitely buying All-Stars # 2 because it was a decent first issue and holds some promise. Beyond 2 depends on how good an issue that one is. I'm more likely to follow JSA for at least a few more issues because of the preferable character mix, but the story's gotta improve for me to remain a long-hauler.

Lardi, what did you think of All Stars #2?

Sturgis has a great handle on his characters. Power Girl and Magog both get the POV treatment. PG gives us a bit of that brassy we like about her. Magog gives us that arrogance we know and find irritating.

The Injustice Society is back, and they are played well, like the professionals they are. I'm looking forward to Sturgis' take on them.

The story itself- Johnny Sorrow has a crush on Stargirl and wants to take her for his own- doesn't seem to have the strength to carry out for long. I'm looking forward to seeing where it goes from here.

I enjoyed # 2.

The Liberty Belle/Hourman backup could end up to be fun.

I hope so, because that's what your extra dollar's buying ya

I read JSoA #34 and All-Stars #1 & 2 all in a sitting (well, laying) this weekend. I've been dreading this whole affair. I'm a child of divorced parents, and my wife's family saw two marital splits just last week. So, I was primed to line the bird cage with these books and cancel my subscription. And then they totally blew me away, All-Stars in particular. I'm afraid I'm now stuck with two comics that I REALLY like. In fact, I already like both books MUCH more than any of the Willingham/Sturges "combined" JSofA stories.

What did I like? First and foremost, virtually every character rang absolutely true. I felt like I was reading stories about real people again, something the previous arc really lacked. There was pathos, humor, argument and affection flowing from each page.

Second, the fact that both stories addressed up front the concerns about the "split," and the personification of those concerns, and misconceptions, in the Liberty Belle/Hourman marriage. This was brilliantly done to both allay my fears and win me over, even though I know that there is more of a real split here than the writers want to convey. Arguing over the jet, for instance. But that reality of "we're not splitting up but we're living in separate places" somehow made me feel better about the whole thing. The clear coordination between Willingham and Sturges, especially both sides of the Libby/Rick phone calls, made it all worthwhile. I do hope, after each book establishes its own voice and place, we can see the two parts of the team interract in a low-key casual way and for the occasional all-hands-on-deck slugfest.

Third, I loved that both writers have addressed in story the issue of the JSA getting so caught with its collective pants down in the previous arc. In JSoA, the whole story hinges on the Society NOT making that same mistake twice. In All-Stars, we at least get a technological reason (and something of a mystery) as to why the bad guys are able to sneak up on a Kryptonian so easily.

Fourth, the art. JSoA looks classic, almost Ordway-esque (trademark), and All-Stars looks youthful and a little edgy (can't wait to see more ways for Williams to strategically shred Power Girl's costume).

Fifth, Magog's a bust, at least at first, and that really cheers me up. I HATE Magog, and I hate saying that, knowing he's supposed to be a descendent of FDR. But I hate the character, and I'm pleased to see that Power Girl won't be steamrolled by him, and that the other All-Stars don't necessarily take to becoming instant Marines.

Sixth, the villains! Mordru! Johnny Sorrow! Injustice Gang! Android Commies! Some Pemberton dude! All very enjoyable. I loved, loved, loved the disembodied Mordru proclaiming he would write the rules of the new Age of Magic, while he's floating around powerless in the JLA cave. Priceless. And Sorrow remains the creepy freak he always has been.

Seventh, Sandy! Thank the maker he's coming back. I was really peeved by Johns's neglect of this great character.

Lastly, the Libby/Hourman backup story is charming and entertaining. Equal parts Indiana Jones, Thin Man and Mr. and Mrs. Smith. It's the best DC backup I've read, by a mile (yes, I like it MUCH better than Rucka's Question backup). This is one story that's worth paying extra for. Who's the writer anyway? She rawks! Can't wait for the next issue.

All told, while I was completely convinced that Willingham and Sturges were ruining my beloved JSA, it turns out they were bringing back, in a fresh new way, so many of the best parts of the original Robinson/Goyer/Johns run--the characters, the humor, the sense of danger, and the excitement of not knowing what comes next.

I'm most interested in the Sandman subplot. I'd still like to see him team up with Nura Nal. More possible than I'd thought, since she's apparently either in the 21st century or will be soon (held captive, evidently).

The villains are a plus. Mordru, I'm not so wild about in his 'early' years- he's definitely one to watch, though. By this point, has he had more JSA appearances than LSH ones? Probably not, but it won't be too long, at this rate.

I'm a bit disappointed in Icicle and Tigress-- I know they've chosen the Injustice Gang, but I think of them as a cut above general villainry. By 'above', I guess I mean edging into gray.

DC doesn't have that many reformed villains, unlike Marvel. I think Icicle could someday be one, Tigress less so- but possible. Pemberton is saddening. The thought of him makes me sigh.

Y'know I liked the brief glimpses of the soldier that became Magog quite a bit. What was his name? Reid? Anyway, I don't like his superheroic identity, either- not least because I really resist any Kingdom Come-ization of the DCU. Let the Elseworld story rest on its considerable laurels.

The Belle/Hourman back-up is fun-- and paints the couple I mentioned before in colors more varied than the main story does/did.

If Obsidian really does get the storyline attention that's been mentioned in interviews and doesn't go all evil on us, if Sandman finally gets a storyline or two all on his own, if Belle and Hourman continue on their screwball heroic way, if Alan, Jay and Ted continue inspiring- then I'll be a happy reader.

I finished JSA #34 for Willingham's first solo issue and read All-Stars #1 by Sturges (but not yet #2) and so far, I'm cautiously enjoying both series. Neither one is exactly wowing me yet, but I feel like the potential is there for both of them.

The Mordru story in JSA so far is only "ok"--it reminds me more of a 1970's superhero story in the delivery of the main plot. I also find All-American Kid to be a pretty devious and scary villain. I know Willingham can write villains who are absolutely horrifying with nothing other than their minds (just from reading Fables), and I feel he is heading that way.

The All-Stars have a line-up I'm a bit less interested in but Johnny Sorrow is a much more interesting read for me, and I can't wait to see what's in store. I've always found him fascinating.

I've been a bit pessimistic of the direction of the JSA but felt the end of the last story arc really delivered. I'm slowly growing more optimistic because of a little what CJ says above: there is a return to the early days of not really knowing what's going to happen next. I really think the last few years of John's run had gotten very complacent and "safe". I'm glad to see that gone. Even more important than that, the split seems to be priming both series to have much more characterization and focus on individuals than JSA has had for a long time. And that is sorely needed for so many of them! So if splitting up the team gives us that then I think we make out on the trade.

I'm particularly interested in seeing Sand, Obsidion and some other neglected characters (honestly, why should we care about Lightning? We need a reason and I hope we get it). I'm also interested in seeing some favorites shine on a recurring basis like Mr. Terrific, Hourman & Liberty Belle, Dr. Midnight, etc. One character I want to see more is Mr. America; his look is so classic that it stands out from all the others.

I also like the tension naturally between Magog and Power Girl; the fact that Magog respects her helps add to that. I sincerely hope they don't end up hooking up though (I recently dropped both of their solo series so I would have no idea who they are dating on their own).

That all being said, I'm not 100% enthusiastic--I need to be won over now.

Shoot, Cobes-- you should have gotten PG # 7. It's been the best yet, quite amusing.

The JSA Annual brought the team back together, sort of. We've got everyone fighting the good ol' fashion superhero fight to quell a prison break. This isn't Belle Reeve or Alcatraz, but Haven- a prison for the genius type criminals. Every JSAer gets a chance to shine, but not everyone one of them does. We get a re-hash of the disagreement that split the team in the first place, with Magog once again at the center of it all.

It's not a bad story and certainly ties more into the main books. And we get a bit of a development that I'm not sure I like yet. It concerns Magog and while I didn't like the guy, I liked not liking him.

JSA All-Stars #3: I like Williams' Power Girl quite a bit. The individual scenes here are varied, some more enjoyable than others- I imagine which ones any particular reader enjoys depends quite a bit upon which characters they like.

Which isn't bad, but not altogether the goal for which a team title should routinely aim.

Johnny Sorrow's mysterious and weird. Atom-Smasher's in trouble (his scene was the one for which I want to read follow-up) and Sandman's long night appears to be near an end. Or does it? (Quite interested in this thread, too).

Magog walks (oh, well). There's a team meeting, with that computer simulcrum girl whose name I can't recall, but who has a bubbly personality.

Hourman and Liberty Belle are fun to read-there's something old-fashioned about the way they relate to each other. Old-fashioned as in movie teams of the 1930's and 40's. At the same time, they don't seem out-dated.

I liked them in the main story, but enjoyed their 'back-up' even more. I'm digging this couple in juxtaposition with Icicle/Tigress.

I think the Hourman/Liberty Belle pairing is great. You're right ML, it has an old-fashion feel to it- more because neither is a jaded cynic. They are what the GA/BC book could have been.

Well, I walked into the comic shop today and walked out without a copy of the latest JSA. I already told my Comic Book Guy that I didn't want it pulled for me anymore, but I wasn't sure I'd immediately be able to not buy it off the shelf. But left I did with no JSA, the first issue I've not bought since the previous volume debuted.

JSA and All-Stars aren't horrible exactly; they're just not good enough. It goes back to before Geoff left, really, with that never-ending Gog storyline. It started off fairly strong--I remember I dug that JSA dogpile fight against the first Magog character that appeared. I also enjoyed the first annual and the earth-2 elements that popped up in it and the next couple of issues. But then the whole storyline fell into predictable areas and then ended with a thud. Geoff had left just too late, it seemed, as the last handful of issues with the Shazam story and the over-the-top cutesiness of his finale featuring Stargirl.

Then, Willingham and Stuges came aboard with a puzzler of a story with no real payoff other than to heavyhandedly find a way of splitting the JSA into two. If they didn't split this way during the Gog affair and its divisive circumstances, it made little-to-no since for it to happen her. And some of the choices for the teams? No WAY would Stargirl or PG break off from the old school JSAers! And Rick and Jesse on separate teams--NO WAY! The explanations are utterly ridiculous!

As I look at May solicitations and am tempted to add multiple titles to a pull bag that's already too heavy, the two JSA books were among those that stood out as being expendable as I looked to make room. The bottom line is that neither book is really strong enough for me to feel the need to continue. And practically forcing me to spend an extra $4 to get all the characters I was formerly getting in one book was just to much! If you really want my $7, make both titles unbelievably great, not just 'all right'! This kind of watering down is what killed the X-books for me years ago, and I won't be fooled twice nor take as long to come to my senses!

I mean, in the DCU how long have multiple simeultaneously published incarnations of the same team really worked out? JLA America/Europe/Task Force/Extreme Justice anyone? New/Team Titans anyone? Just look at the current blazing success that is/are Teen Titans and Titans! In the DCU (and creatively, if not saleswise, I'd argue in the Marvel U either) <all together now>, IT JUST DOESN'T WORK!!!!!

'Bye for now, JSA. When the book is (probably inevitably) relaunched as all this plays out and both titles tank creatively and saleswise, I'll most likely be there to give an old friend a second chance.

So...any dissenting opinions out there? Anyone think JSA's better than ever or at least getting a second wind? Anyone who pretty much agrees but is gonna stick it out anyway?

Well, like I mentioned, the Fourth Reich is back with new members.

I'm about two issues behind on both titles and plan to catch up within the next few days, so I'll give some added commentary. But from what I've felt over the last few months, I plan to stick it out a bit longer but certainly don't think I could muster any sort of arguement or encouragement for anyone else to do the same.

I think you have a great point Lardy about DC's (and Marvel's) continued major mistake of putting out two or more comic books of the same franchise where the quality actually seems to split in half. So now we have two mediocre titles instead of one good one. All of those examples you listed are good ones; it becomes a gradual watering down of the comics. Its also why DC should probably not bother ever doing another second Wonder Woman title when they can't even get the first one to reach "best of" status. I think you're dead on: eventually both comics will be cancelled and then relaunched as one title. If history has told us anything though, its usually that the relaunched single title will fail as the audience has grown jaded and gradually fallen away.

I don't really mind the split, but I think having it occur because of some acrimony between two faction within the JSA was completely the wrong way to go about it.

Creating a training squad, or a black(ish) ops squad (remember Alan and Mr. T are or were in Checkmate...) would've been much more acceptable.

Hourman and Liberty-Belle are the saving grace, for me.

So far, I like the offshoot title more-- if only for Sandman, Atom-Smasher and the Hourman/Liberty Belle/Icicle/Tigress back-up.

Anyway, #36-- didn't the last issue end with the blurb 'Whatever happened to Obsidian' or something similar? Or was that the spin-off?

No progress on that front-- however we do see an alternative (hopefully) future where Mister Terrific is talking about the death of Alan Scott, which we're led to belive might be happening at issue's end.

We also are treated to the return of the Nazi villains-- with no less than three Captains, a Baron and a Baroness in their ranks. The most striking of them is 'Shadow of War'- a character new to me, if not to everyone. I really liked her and hope she establishes herself as separate from these relics. She's a cut above this crew.

Which isn't to say I don't enjoy the Warriors of the New Reich. They are logical enemies for the JSA, and don't appear quite as dated as they would in almost in any other comic outside of Captain America. Individually, there's some interesting designs there-- but three Captains? Couldn't they vary the rank a bit?

Mr. Terrific has an interrogation/confrontation scene in which he uses his T-spheres in a new and somewhat disturbing way. I did like that he found new uses for what he regarded as a failure, though. Reminded me of Brainy and Invisible Kid and the invention of the reboot flight rings.

Wildcat's nine lives are discussed and reinterpreted once again. If the War and Remembrance future is avoided, Ted Grant should be guest-starring in LSH any time now. Maybe he'll still have Obsidian's egg-form on a shelf somewhere and Shadow Lass or Brainy or somebody will free him.

ALL-STARS #4: So Mr. Sanderson is back to just plain Sand now, is he? Oh, well- guess I'll never get the 'behind the scenes' story I wanted about when and why he made the switch to Sandman.

Looks like he's made a hair color switch to go with his name. Actually, it's probably just a coloring error. I hope so, since I prefer him as blonder.

I like how he's conversing with characters- which seems a strange thing to remark upon, but it's been a long time since he really has. I'm not crazy about his FUBAR powers, though I liked how he used that acronym as a hint towards his 'displaced in time' status.

The dialogue with Power Girl was interesting-- something about it seemed out of place. As Sand, maybe Sandy is more self-aware and emotionally direct. Maybe he learned something from that Hawkgirl mess. And, no, I'm not guessing about a similar theme with PG.

Johnny Sorrow's kind of fun- though the King of Tears is really not all that interesting. At least here. The battle scene was OK.

Courtney and Atom-Smasher in the Subtle Realms-- now *that's* intriguing.

Again, I enjoy "The Inheritance"- though it's time to make the plot a priority, rather than fun dialogue spread across lots of settings.

I read All-Stars #2, the latest JSA and the annual last night and I found that I could hardly get through any of them. It felt like the X-Men / X-Force meetings of the 90's but with a lack of characters acting really cool.

I've been back and forth since the split but these issues definitely felt like a continued decline in quality.

I think both titles should've taken a few issues to get/demonstrate their takes on the characters. JSA and ALL-STARS both suffer a bit from obligatory opening inflated storyline. I know it flies in the face of marketing 'wisdom' (choke and snicker), but taking a couple of issues to lay down some basics would've been a much better way to start.

If for no other reason that these characters have needed some breathing room for *years* now.

Lardi, the latest issue of JSA starts a new story line. It's sort of a progression of the book, and it leaps forward 20 years to have Mr T tell us about the fall of the JSA. It's actually a better story than Willingham's initial arc. I'd recommend giving that issue a try. IF you still don't like it, then you likely won't appreciate his run on the book.

There's some good stuff in each issue of All Stars. Sturgis just needs to tighten things a bit, really get a handle on his cast- heroes and villains. The recent Injustice Society, much like the All Stars, could use some polish.

Well, I could hardly get through All-Stars #4 and the latest JSA issue. I found both to be bordering on the terrible.

I'm thinking this has all been a major mistake. Even the return of Sand could barely keep me interested in All-Stars. Meanwhile in JSA, is just seems all rather boring and beside the point.

I really want to love both comics but they have to sell me on that. Mediocre team comic books is DC's specialty these days (JLA, JSA, All-Stars, Teen Titans and then the plain awful ones like Outsiders), so its too bad to see this great franchise get caught in taht trend.

What a huge dissapointment. I feel like the JSA franchise is in serious danger again--and after so much good work has been done these last 10-12 years!

I am actually really enjoying the 4th Reich/Elseworldsy current JSA arc.

All-Stars #6: Liked- Johnny Sorrow's masquerade as Atom-Smasher in order to woo Courtney for nefarious purposes. King Chimera's stunt to take Johnny Sorrow down. I was surprised. Anna Forture- I'm not smitten or anything, but I do like her much more than Judomaster.

Didn't Like- Sand's power problems. I know there's a contingent of fans who want this character to be depowered and therefore just like Wesley, but I *so* disagree. I like him as a geomorph and would be quite disappointed if what seems to be the direction this writer is taking him is actually followed. Courtney killing the King of Tears... does DC have to be kill, kill, kill all the time in every title? I'm so tired of it.

The back-up: I'm a big fan of old-time screwball comedies, the way the characters interact here reminds me of them, so I like it even though I acknowledge that the plot is going nowhere and wasn't much of a starting point in the first place. It's all style over substance here, so if you like the style, you might enjoy this despite it's lack of substance.

I really like The Icicle and the fact that, in some ways, he's just a corner-turn away from becoming a hero. And yet he never makes that turn... so that makes him interesting (though it's frustrating when other writers don't recognize or use this facet of the character).

ML, you and I might be the last of the JSA hold overs.

All Stars is good, the Damage funereal was a nice issue. Sturgis can bring in the character when he wants. I'll admit he needs to tighten up his plots, but no one can complain the book is decompressed.

JSA is wrapping up it's "Days of Future Past" story. Sure it's been a bit long in the tooth, but we're gettign soem good Terrific time. With the short shrift he got in Willingham's openign arc, this is a nice way to make up for it.

Sure, this isn't Geoff John's book anymore, but it's still a great read each month.

The back up story in All Stars- Hourman and Liberty Belle. It's a fun read, but too short each month, and running too long. Since Didio hates to finish stories these days, they should use the back ups to give us fans those big closuers we like so much.

I'm going to miss the Liberty Belle look when Jesse assumes JLA duties full time. I know she's suppose to be the generational speedster over there, but does she have to change her name- AGAIN!

When I quit the JSA, I've quit comics.

I think the Damage funeral was the best issue of All-Stars so far. Liked the insight into Judomaster. Like that Sand has replaced Magog on the team. Liked that someone remembered Jakeem and Amazing Man. That said, the Hourman/Belle backup has been weak. This sort of extended meander isn't what I wanted from a backup.

The focus on Terrific is the only real positive I can find in Willingham's story. Otherwise, I find it to be a run of the mill future dystopia story with some iffy commentary on the human condition. Art is decent.

I'm hoping the two months "off" for Robinson's JLA/JSA team-up helps him recharge.

I'm still lingering but both have fallen to the very bottom of my pull list. Your above reviews give me a little hope for All-Stars, which is probably the next comic I cancel unless the latest issue wows the hell out of me.

JSA's story hasn't been great but it hasn't been bad either. I'm hoping Willigham can turn it around like Miner says once this coming crossover wraps up (which I'm not too excited about).

HATE that Jesse is leaving to join the JLA as Jesse Quick and not Liberty Belle. HATE IT.

So I bumped All-Stars up in my pile based on the above, and actually, I did think it was a pretty solid issue. The best so far, definitely.

For the first time since she appeared, Judomaster finally feels like a real character. Her lack of any personality up until now has made her a bit unlikeable (see also, Wildcat's son). I thought it was a nice goodbye issue to Damage as well, a hero who has actually had a pretty solid history for the last 15 years. Kudos to whoever remembered that Iron Munroe, Argent and some others of his past should be there.

Glad to see Sand back.

Nice quick bits with Cyclone and King Chimera.

Funny how the lack of Magog makes things so much more enjoyable.

One question: why exactly isn't Amazing Man on any of the teams? That's a big goof on DC's part I think. Same for Jakeem.

A complaint I can't let go is the artwork though. Freddie Williams II's exaggerated anatomy is just too distracting. I think if All-Stars had a different artist I'd be more into it.

The latest gave the title a stay of execution for me. I want to like this title because I love the characters. A little consistency and better artwork and I'll be quite happy.

No kidding. Though I liked how he was at the funeral, but way, way back from the crowd.

Another thing I neglected to mention above was that I liked how King Chimera was portrayed this issue. A good sign that he won't turn out to be just another jerk character, though I think he'll continue to have issues.

Yeah, this issue went a long way in showing a deeper side to King Chimera. I don't mind if he's jerk-ish at times, but don't want him to be pigeonholed as the team asshole.

I quickly mentioned it above but I really don't like Wildcat's son. I find him redundant and annoying. When a writer realizes this and decides to do something, I hope he's simply not killed off though since that seems super-obvious; I'd rather he become a bit more complex and give the real Wildcat a good storyarc.

With Jesse leaving, does that make Lightning the only girl playing with the old guard in JSA?

Amazing Man, Judomaster, and Wildcat Jr have all been blank slates since Geoff introduced them. That's par for the course- since Terrific's introduction, Sand has fallen by the way side. Midnight hasn't gotten a real chance to shine since his subplot with Canary got dropped. Much as I love reading the JSA, there's going to be some characters lacking in developement. (Not unlike a certain book full of a legion of great characters.)

So Justice Society of America #40 is out, and it (finally) wraps up the current Nazi-ruled future Earth storyline. These stories by their nature have to end with the reset button well and truly hit, but Willingham throws a bit of a curveball by doing more than restoring the old status quo. That it seems a bit rushed is understandable, given the upcoming JLA-crossover, but it doesn't say good things about this storyline's pacing.

This is an Obsidian-centric issue, which will hopefully appeal to people annoyed that he's spent so much time in (literally) reduced circumstances. I particularly liked the scenes with his father.

Artist Jesus Merino turns in some solid work here, possibly his best on the series to date. Nothing exceptional but, with the exception of a few goofy faces, nothing jarring.

I liked how Mr. Terrific looked for the younger version of Karla at the end.

I am still in JSA's corner (but not All-Stars). I usually don't post here because I am penalized for subscribing and get mine two or three weeks after y'all have read it.
I thought dividing the team was supposed to enable greater characterization. So far there has been no justification for having two Wildcats on the team/s except that it appeals to some Kingdom Come fans. I am a KC fan, but there has to be a literary reason for introducing Wildcat II, Judomaster, Lightning, Magog, and Amazing Man. Unless something can be done with them send them to Outsiders for charater development.
I don't know if there is a point to the future Nazi storyline, but I have enjoyed it. I'm glad to hear the Obsidian will get some attention.

I have dumped JSA ALL-STARS (the extra dollar and barely so-so backup were killing me), but am still enjoying JSoA.

In fact, I really enjoyed the Nazi dystopia story.

Looks like a new creative team is coming aboard in October.

Read about it here

Like most comic story lines these days, the JSA Nazi Days of Future Past story was easily 1 issue too long, perhaps 2. The penultimate chapter was a long, drawn out rather boring and predictable fight, with the only unexpected charm coming from the treatment of Superman, who's not even a JSA character. The epilogue/reset issue had some good stuff with Obsidian, but I'm not sure it was enough to make a good book. Just having Obsidian talking (and making a pretty good gay joke) and not being a black hole/egg shouldn't be confused with actual characterization. And I'm sorry, but as others have pointed out, the baseball stuff at the end makes NO sense! Obsidian, who grew up in Milwaukee and lived in LA, is a TWINS FAN!?!??! And perhaps even worse -- Alan Scott, who's childhood goes back to the 1920s and 1930s, is a METS FAN?!?!?! The Mets were founded in 1962!?!?! How could the Scott family ALWAYS have been Mets fans!?!?! This is just another example of writers wanting to say a particular thing and grafting that thing onto an inappropriate character. It seems a small thing, but the small things are what supposedly good writers are supposed to be the best at! Blech. I'm dropping the book. J Rob is writing the JLA/JSA crossover, and I'm banning him from my comic book money after the New Krypton epic fail. I can't believe it, but I'm dropping JSofA. I will read All-Stars tonight and decide their future as well, although I've actually kind of liked the book. It's had the family feeling that JSofA has lacked since Johns left.

Oh, I don't know. I was a Saints fan for decades, and then the Panthers came along. I've been a fan ever since. Sometimes its nice to get in on the ground floor of something and be able to enjoy the ride with them. It's one of the reasons I couldn't be a Yankee fan, so much history before I was born.

Well, that and the fact that they're damn yankees.

Teams named after animals > teams not named after animals. It's totally scientific fact.

It's how I choose my teams for fantasy football every year. 'Steelers vs. Falcons? Falcons! Raiders vs. Lions? Lions!'

I'm on the fence about All-Stars. On the one hand, it has characters I love, especially with Atom Smasher. It has good Infinity, Inc. vibe, meaning a connection with a past and a tradition, but not old and musty. But the writing just doesn't do it for me. The characters aren't distinct enough. In the most recent ish, Cyclone is angling for some hot King Chimera action. That's fine, but it kind of came out of left field. And Johns created Cyclone as a hyper, fast talking whirlwind, and a kid. Now, she's all zen and sensual. Wat up wit dat?

JSA/JLA x-over = ugh!

I know I'm in the vast minority, but I was actually liking this until Jade and Obsidian merged.

That's just... wrong.

I know I'll be relieved if Molly Mayne-Scott survives this crossover. We've seen her as Mrs. Scott and in simulcrum as Harlequin. Changes to Alan have been mentioned. I just have a sick feeling that she's in the crosshairs as I type this. Hopefully, I'm being paranoid, but in a year that's seen Tempest, Damage and Kid Eternity (all favorite characters of mine of varying levels of obscurity) stupidly killed, I'm a tad jumpy whenever I see a character I like appear after months of limbo.

The JLA/JSA crossover does seem to be dragging on and on. I'm old enough to remember when they were an annual event- and were really highlights in the JLA title.

But they didn't take up four or more months of the publishing year. I wish the crossover would become an annual event- but would be confined to one issue in each title. If the story in a given year really warranted more space, there'd be a JLA/JSA special.

Hard to trade paperback package? Print a TPB every two years and include a reprint from the Golden Age or from the history of whatever 'third' team is invariably featured.

ML, you have the right of it. Use the annuals to tell this story- fewer chapters, same number of pages, and it doesn't bog down either title too long.

Honestly, the story had me interested. But this week's chapter was disappointing on all fronts. Almost all... good to see Doc Midnight not playing surgeon for a change.

Yeah- that was great. The good Doctor needs to interact with more characters- even though I do love his scenes with Mr. Terrific. It'd be fitting if his saving Starman led to them becoming friends. Mikhail needs some friends who aren't gorillas and it'd be kind of fun to read about the very grounded Pieter Cross associating with a bisexual space alien.

That was the best part of the issue for me too. Man, is he underused.

Hadn't heard about Kid Eternity.

^ Ditto. Last I heard, Kid Eternity had just been kdnapped by The Calculator for some reason or other. Has he been killed off now too? That sucks if so.

Re: Doctor Mid-Nite - For no particular reason, I used to find this character really "eh"(*) and whenever it seemed a JSAer was about to quit/get killed off, I always hoped it would be him doing the departing. But without really noticing it, he's quietly crept up on me and become one of those characters that I now feel offers a very unique and much-needed dimension to the DCU (especially his 'super-hero MD' angle) - and one I'd hate to ever lose.

Geoff Johns gets a lot of crap on this site for some reason, but (even though he didn't actually create them, I know) in Mr Terrific and Dr Mid-Nite I feel he's given us probably 2 of the best new additions to the DCU of the 90s/00s.

(*) Not the original though - I always loved him.

In BATGIRL, Calculator killed KID E after using him to continuously summon his son, Marvin.

As in Marvin and Wendy and the Wonder Dog. The DCU versions of the annoying tagalongs to the Super Friends. :rolleyes:

You know the drill- middleweight (or lower) villain has to be proven to be more badass, so somebody in a costume has to die. At least in this case, it was badass and batshit insane. Not that that makes up for much.

I sorta hope KID E comes back really pissed off (after all he was originally killed in the 1940's and 'again' in JSA #1) and is a temporary villain for the TEEN TITANS. I kind of hate them now.

The growth of Dr. Mid-Nite and Mr. Terrific were two of the things that made JSA so special in the first place and they remain two of my favorite additions to the DCU in recent years. Ostrander's introduction of Mr. Terrific II in the Spectre was great but it was quick in an 'don't blink or you'll miss it' way; Matt Wagner's Dr. Mid-Nite mini was a bit more firm of an introduction and really excellent.

But Goyer and Johns really deserve all the accolades in the world for adding them to the JSA, which helped firmly plant them as major parts of the DCU and in my mind, help bring the JSA itself to the next level (as opposed to numerous other attempts at relaunching the JSA). John's continued use of them throughout the years is one of the high points of his various series.

(Also, I know in the past I've been critical of Geoff, but I've always maintained he's a great writer and I've liked him; I think at worst I said he's just not one of the 10 best writers in comics right now, as many fans like to say).

For the JSA right now, I can't even bring myself to read the current crossover with the JLA yet. I've decided to drop JSA All-Stars completely and will stick around on JSA to see what Guggenheim has to offer. I've loved the Justice Society since I was a kid and loved the JSA since it's relaunch in the late 90's so I really want to keep enjoying the series! I hope Guggenheim can get things back on track.

I want this page!!

Art by Kollins, I may have to at least give the issue a looksie at the shop. Also, could they just do the issue in B/W using his pencils?

OK, that's just gorgeous.

Anybody still reading? I read 44 and 45 last night.

I am SOOO glad that awful JLA/JSA crossover is done.

I am LOVING the new direction with Guggenheim (I hate to shoe my comicbook ignorance by not knowing, but I don't) and Kollins' art is SUPREME.

I hate to say that since Johns left the book, it really hasn't been the book it was before. Like him or love him, he has the touch to keep those old pulp characters alive. Problem is, he's got so many ideas, the older guys tended to get lost in the shuffle. That was my only complaint with his JSA stuff.

I honestly expected more from Willingham. I hadn't read Sturges before, but heard good things about him. I'm willing to give Allstars a chance, but it needs to get much better in both art and story soon. Real Soon.

As for JSA... I'll give Guggenheim a chance, I really will, but the book needs a massive upgrade real fast, and as an old time (for a 43 year old) fan, thats a little sad.

I have mixed feelings about the most recent run-- I think the writing and art are fine, and the plot direction might even be more than that.

But I miss the bigger cast and whatever subplots were brewing underneath. I realize that there's a fanbase that only wants to see the surviving GA JSAers (Jay Garrick Flash, Alan Scott GL and Wildcat) but I'm not one of them. I *do* want to read about those characters, but amongst the newer characters. ALL-STARS isn't giving me that.

After a few months away, I read a few of the most recent issues of Justice Society. A lot better than I recall the other post-Johns stories and on some levels the trimmed down cast is nice for the character focus. Really love the Jay Garrick spotlight of late. Not sure if I'll be sticking with the title every month, but I'll check in on it.

JSA All-Stars, though, I had a hard time getting into. Which is a shame because I love a lot of those characters, but something about the title has never resonated with me. I think on principle I've had a hard time with it because the concept of the old guard teaching the new guard was a big appeal for me since the Johns JSA relaunch back in ...1999 was it? No offense to Power Girl and Hourman as the All-Star teachers, but taking all the young guns (except Lightning) away from the veteran team was counter-productive to me. Just my two cents though.

Well, I just read the interview with Guggenhiem and I gotta say I'm really not a fan of the old "tear'em down, build'em up", having seen it toooooo many times before. it rarely works, and generally just leaves things torn down for years.

I love the team so I'll most likely stick it out, but I don't have any really hopes.

Well I finally read the JSA special that dealt with Magog and found it a snoozefest. Probably reading it after his most recent turn in JL Gen Lost was not wise.

I probably should have trusted my instinct to remove it from my pull, but the 'Reading with a Flight Ring' guy on Facebook gave it a thumbs up.

I'll stick with the current JSoA book (which I have enjoyed) and just continue to ignore any of the giants and specials from now on.

I'm debating picking JSA ALL-STARS back up when the price drops to $2.99. We'll see.

I don't think I contributed to last year's "Comic Review Month", but I'll throw my hat in this year with Justice Society of America #46. I will put it in a spoiler, just in case.

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">
I hate to be negative, but I'm really not liking the way this beloved title is heading.

Dark n' gritty just doesn't work for the JSA. Like the Legion, the JSA stands for hope. Alan and Jay are just out of character here.

And then Obsidian appears and just wants vengeance, yet again. I understand he's upset about his dad being attacked, but isn't he supposed to be over that "angry young man" business? Isn't he supposed to be half of the DCU's well-adjusted gay couple?

Then Lightning, apparently the last remaining female character in the JSA proper, dies. Now, I seriously doubt this is the kind of death that sticks (they seldom are), but it seems totally meaningless.

Maybe I'm just not getting it, but this "Supertown" arc is just not working for me.

I love these characters. Last year's "Fourth Reich" storyline was one of the best I've read in recent years. There is so much potential yet to be mined from this group, but for right now, it's not there. The original super-team deserves better.
</span></span>

Thanks, Rocky. I see I made the right choice quitting Justice Society.

I may re-read the Bronze Age JSA trades and the first three Goyer/Johns JSA trades.

JSA ALL-STARS #14: I like Roxy, the computer hologram. But she's getting more panel time than many of the members. I'll forgive that if she gets Tyler, Hourman III, as a scene partner more often. That kind of 'time travel loopiness' is just fine with me.

I also like Steel and Tomcat as friends. This was touched upon when they were both introduced, but hasn't been reinforced since. Hmmm- Steel's sad face after his acquaintance kissed him- he didn't physically feel anything, right?

Off on another artifact search? Isn't that what
people didn't like about the Hourman/Liberty Belle/Icicle/Tigress back-up? Not me- I liked the story... though definitely not because of the 'McGuffin'.

Arthur Pemberton doesn't engage me as a villain yet. In fact, I forget he's around from issue to issue.

Who else thinks his daughter's going to emerge as the new Star-Spangled Kid? Or Skygirl?

More Sand! (Or is that Sandman? Let's deal with what we saw in that JSA 80 page special last fall...)! Let Obsidian in! I guess he's going to be in JSA proper, though. Bring back Brainwave! How about a team-up with the Freedom Fighters?

I’m catching up on JSA because I can hardly find it readable anymore. I thought #45 (and I realize from Rocky’s post I’m an issue behind) was an improvement but still has a long way to go. It involved a secret mission back in WWII featuring Jay & Alan in Libya which had moments of being interesting but then had a moral conflict between the two that seemed incredibly cliché and forced. Meanwhile, the rest of the issue had a very dark tone focusing on despair and the downside of superheroics that didn’t really make the issue any fun at all.

Guggenheim touches on probably the single most boring controversy in comic books—the property damage super-battles cause. Do any readers even care about this a little anymore? How many times have we seen this? How many times has Superman had to explain himself to crowds because of this? It’s annoying more than anything.

Scott Kollins does a pretty good job but the coloring in the issue is very dark. Kollins spends too much time having the facial expressions of the heroes either angry or scared—he does both of those expressions well but when that’s all we see all issue, it reminds me of the worst of the early 90’s Image/Marvel days.

Guggenheim is a writer whose work I’ve generally found “meh”. He’s had a few good Spider-Man stories but that’s about it. I was hoping that he could turn things around though because honestly, JSA hasn’t had a really GREAT story since before Levitz ended the first run (even Geoff’s relaunch was mediocre at best). I’m not sure how much more mediocre to bland JSA I can take; I love these characters and want this title to be great but hey, I want a lot of things that aren’t happening.

Meanwhile, JSA: All-Stars remains one of the few DC Comics I thought was so bad I actually dropped it (I’m talking in the same category of Dangerous Dan Didio’s Outsiders). Luckily I blocked that sloppy artwork and nonsensical writing from my memory.

I'd much prefer if both teams were folded back together before both titles inevitably get cancelled with the normal deaths of 2-3 members that will go with that.

Hmm. I read # 46 tonight and really thought I enjoyed it, but after reading Rocky's post I can see what he is talking about, and it makes me question my enjoyment of the issue.

Things are looking dark at present but I do not think they will stay that way. I'm going to stick with it-- I mean, I too loved the 4th Reich arc and it was VERY very dark. I think the dawn is coming.

Also, I'm totes digging the artwork.

Following up on JSA, I read #46 last night and did think there was a bit of improvement over the last issue. Things are very bleak here, but I’m hoping this will change—if it hasn’t in 3 issues, then that’s a huge problem.

The inclusion of Blue Devil was a welcome surprise and I hope he sticks it out as a part of this title for awhile. I would like to see him interact with Dr. Fate, who I was also glad got some good screen time.

What really made this issue stand out was the artwork by Mike Norton, who showed off some really great skills. It looked a lot like Frances Manupal, and that’s a huge compliment. It could use some brighter colors however—I realize the dark tones are meant to enhance the story but I’m finding it a bit annoying.

I don’t expect Lightning to be dead in the slightest but if she is, I’ll be the irrationally pissed poster many would expect.

Well, the latest with the "Dark Alan Scott" cocoon didn't do much for me. I love that Jay is getting spotlighted, but the "epic, Grand Team" feeling is gone, now almost long gone since Johns left.

Willingham did okay, but it didn't seem like he quite had it right. Guggenhiem, while having an okay idea, is following a path I don't care for as I mentioned above.

There is a, and rightly so, majesty to the grand old team that Johns got. Others are just telling stories and plugging in the team of "x" it feels like.

JSA ALL-STARS #15: The Puzzlemen are truly bizarre. Did the sentence "We appear to be in limbo, boys." really merit a double-page spread? In DC's sucky (IMO) new story-length? And a four page meeting? The fight scene really only has room to highlight Atom-Smasher and the weirdness of the puzzlemen.

I'm kind of fascinated by them- give 'em a bit of individual personality and I'd love 'em! They remind me of Marvel monsters that I never heard of and found out they had a handful of stories in the pre-Fantastic Four days!

Lorna Pemberton awakes at issue's end, so presumably, her situation will take center stage next month.

I know I'm tired of the magic men who are behind the goings-on-- their 'stooges' are 10,000 times more interesting than they are.

I want more interaction among the teammates! During fights, yeah- but out of them, too. And not in meetings! Or, better, not *only* in meetings!

This title has characters I love- some among my favorites in comics, but they're little more than glorified cameos.

JSA 47:

I'm still into the Dr. Chaos storyline and am really digging the artwork!!

I may have to check this out again if Danny is on the team now.

I like Blue Devil.. but is he really a JSA character?

I liked this team better when it was all about *legacy* and every one on its roster had some connection to either a previous member or some other Golden Age character.

Geoff Johns was the first to break that tradition (in modern times) with the introduction of the useless and redundant Lightning, and now Blue Devil is just another random hero added to the list.

Soon the JSA is going to become like what the JLA was in the 90s - that ugly time when every super-hero and their cat was a member. Talk about wiping the lustre off what was supposed to be "The World's Greatest Heroes". IMO that team still hasn't recovered since.

And now the JSA has all these randoms on it, two average-selling books and, by the sound of it (I'm not a current reader/buyer), not much direction.

I'd like to pick this book up again one day but the creative decisions of the last few years (much like JLA, Titans and Outsiders) just keep pushing me away.

What has happened to DC's team books anyway? They used to be all I bought. Now I don't even flick through them in the store.

This is my post on the DCMB's about the JSA.


Has JSA lost its way?


I'm beginning to think so. With so many stellar characters introduced and then seemingly lost in the books, with what amounts to (in my opinion, natch) the generic "Plug in a villain or villain group and go" from the last year or so, we've lost a lot of what made the book so good.

Before, we had tight stories with a lot of character focus. And while now we are getting a bit more of some of the golden agers like we wanted, it seems as if its at arms length from the resurrection that brought things back to the forefront with the Robinson/Goyer/Johns start lo' these many years gone past.

What's happened to Sand? Where's the brownstone? How bout the other characters like Ma?

I liked the idea of the split with the groups. Unlike some, I still do, and I see Allstars getting better in many regards. But the main title seems adrift. I dont' have any real connection to Jennifer, and I would like one (despite the stripping of BL's established history to put her and her sister into existence.

alan is obviously being shifted towards the kingdom come version, but I thought that worked so much better as a possible elseworld, now shifted into the hyperverse or whatever. I personally could have stood for Supes to remain with the team, but it was a nice sendoff.

don't know what the outcome of BD is gonna be, but I miss Carter and Sheira in the group. Wildcat just seems to be there. Mr. Terrific has apparantly adopted the old Wildcat storyline... And while the new villain is tough enough... I'm not feeling the team. it could be any old team out there facing these guys, it seems.

the JSA has always held a specific place. Maybe Geoff was the one that could filter that old standard and modernize it the best. But right now (and I am NOT a fan of the old "tear'em down and build'em back up at all, it fails far too many times and can lead to longterm poor quality of work as people keep throwing things against the wall to see what will stick in the readers interest ie: Aquaman, Hawkman, Titans, JL, GL, Flash and on and on and on and on and on.

Justice League used to be the powerhouses that handled the cosmic threats to the planet. Justice Society was always the Grand Old Guard from the age of the Greatest Generation. The conducted themselves in a manner that left no doubt that they got the job done with the minimum of muss and fuss, they didn't whine and kevetch like so many of the newer teams. They are the Standard By Which All Others Are Measured.

And right now,the only one living up to that seems to be Flash.

Just my thoughts.


I have to say that after a rocky start, I'm beginning to dig Allstars. Its coming together better than JSA is right now.

I just found all my old all-star squadron books, as well as some old legion books I didn't know I owned. Fun reading this weekend.

Guys I have a question.

I recall an issue of Starman that was a flashback story of Ted Knight, reminiscing about a situation where the JSA was incapacitated to some extent, and Dian Belmont led a group of the significant others the JSA had (girlfriends, wives, etc.), in specialized costumes based on the Society members.

Does anyone have any scans from that issue?

oh groan... i loved that issue!!! i think somewhere around #60 to 70....??? wow..that was a long time ago.

#69.

I remembered it was in the Grand Guignol trade paperback when I borrowed it from the library.

ah!! found it!! its #69!

here's the link -

http://www.comicvine.com/starman-gr...-reborn-renewed-and-remembered/37-78383/

maybe you can try to scan that cover from the link that I left here?

Well the scans I was looking for are of the Substitute JSA. For future commissions.

I'm still very much into JSA.

The current storyline has been VERY dark, but I think we just saw a big bright 500-watt bulb go off on the final 2-page spread!

*THAT* is how to do a 2-page spread and make it WORK.

I'm pretty sure this is based on a real JSA story in the Golden Age where this actually happened. Don't have the issue # of All-Star Comics handy.

This is the cover to the Starman issue -

http://www.comics.org/issue/98128/cover/4/

#50-- I liked Jay's comments about 'Legacy heroes' . I think that phrase and what it implies has gotten way out of proportion in regards to some readers' expectations for JSA membership.

Still not enough about these new members-- who, why, what... as in Who are they? Why are they there and what do they add? I'm not saying they shouldn't be there or that they don't add-- I just don't know squat about any of them, aside from Blue Devil and Manhunter.

Who is Red Beetle? And Dark Knight? Did I miss something? When did they join?

I'm guessing in JSA ALL-STARS, which I dropped during my purge of $4 titles?

1 issue to go. I'm enjoying the final sotryline and am thoroughly enjoying the involvement of the Challengers of the Unknown as well.

Nope Lash, I've read all of All-Stars and these new heroes never appeared there. I still have no idea who they really are!

And now they'll never matter!

How long till JSA is announced in the new DCU roster? I'm betting before the end of the year-- though if DC sticks to 'Superman's now the Earth's first superhero', I don't think I'll care to read it.

Some have suggested that Stormwatch is the upcoming Earth's JSA. Gag. Seriously, the thought triggers that reflex. Truly, an awful idea that is, I pray, just fannish speculation.

With folks like JSA, the Marvel family, and the Freedom Fighters conspicuously absent from the "DCnU", I and others are hoping they all end up on a separate earth all their own!!

I fully expect the JSA will be on Earth-Two when the dust settles. The mainstream DCU will be poorer for their absence.

I know a lot of fans are hoping for that, but I think if that happened, those characters would end up even more marginalized. In terms of publication, anyway. Obviously, having your own earth would make you 'the stars', even if you only appeared in stories every five years.

I came to like the DC that had all the characters on one Earth and found recent depictions of other-Earths (like the recent one in a JSA annual that was similar to how the JSA might have been had CRISIS not altered everything) wanting. As an ongoing setting, anyway.

Maybe MULTIVERSITY will change my mind and I'll fully embrace the idea of a Marvel-family Earth, a JSA Earth and a Freedom Fighters Earth.

I kind of doubt it, though.

Hmmm- guess the Charlton characters have been fully absorbed. Wonder why?

The prospect of JLA/JSA team-ups like from the old days is tantalizing, but on the whole, I'd rather read an ongoing JSA than look forward to yearly glimpses. Same for the others. Can't say DC didn't try with the Freedom Fighters, but the comic reading audience rejected the group at every turn.

FYI, major hints have been dropped for a James Robinson / Nicola Scott JSA book at year end or early 2012. No idea of accuracy of rumors or content.

I'm afraid they fall in the " I'll believe it when I see it" category for me, Cobie. Nicola Scott would be great, though. Robinson's recent track record has been spotty- though I don't know how much of that comes from editorial 'input', which seems to be a constant where the JLA is concerned. I didn't dislike his JLA run as much as some, but I'm certainly not blind to it's faults. The Congorilla/Starman one-shot shows me that away from the glare of JLA, he's still an interesting, fun writer. Even in JLA, his use of guest stars was promising. The upcoming SHADE mini will tell the tale. I think it'll be more like his work on STARMAN. He did work on JSA way back when... another point in his favor. Not everone's cut out to write the company's 'headliner' team.
Or deal with the afore-mentioned 'input'.

So, any thoughts on the last issue?

I'll admit that <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Alan Scott's death</span></span> was the kind of thing I'd expect in the final issue.

On the other hand, the fact that <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">his wife and daughter were nowhere to be seen at his funeral (if he is really dead) and the fact that some of this issue contradicted the end of JLA</span></span> detracted from it.

I'm still hoping that a recognizable JSA is waiting for us before too long.

And it's been confirmed! JSA set on E-2!

I'm actually thrilled for this news! This is ideal for me, as I prefer them separated a la pre-Crisis. Now if only they can do it right! At least the awesome Nicola Scott is the artist!

I actually really wish the Golden Age stories were all in continuity now.

This...this I am excited for. James Robinson has proven that he has love for the JSA'ers plenty of times before.

Nicola is icing on the cake for this fan.

WE GET EARTH 2 BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!

As I said elsewhere, DC has given me the best birthday gift ever!

what ? where did you get that info? where?

needless to say i am on the fence..disappointed that they dont stay on the same Earth..and happy that they are back, despite that they are on E-2. wow....I love seeing all three Flashes together....Wally, Jay, and Barry....and BART too. loved two cities across each other - Keystone City and Central City. I am gonna miss that !


whats more.....i wonder how will that affect Mr. Terrific, Jakeem Thunder (which I heard that he will pop up in Mr. T book), Kara Starr, etc.? hmmm....

Here's a linkL

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/08/27/james-robinson-confirms-nicola-scott-on-jsa-and-earth-2/

Junior!!! You obviously need to get on Facebook STAT so you get the news as it breaks, child!

Not an automatic buy for me- though I'm glad for all the fans who are excited about the Earth 2 thing (though they haven't really said that the series is taking place on Earth 2, exactly...)

It'll all come down to what characters they're featuring. I wouldn't be surprised if Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman of Earth 2 get big roles. For some, a dream come true. For me, a big turn off.

I wonder if the Freedom Fighters will be on Earth 2, as well? Or on their own Earth? Palmiotti kind of hinted at one point that there was more for the team coming...

Maybe the Mr. Terrific title takes place on Earth 2, too.

Mr. E-Lad... PLEASE. You know good and well you will be buying this.

Once upon a time that would've been true.

I know I'll read it at work before buying it, or adding it to my 'pull' list. Unless interviews, etc. really sell it to *me*.

If it's back to Justice League counterparts, with some stray Wildstorm character thrown in, I won't.

Or if Sand is back to Sandy.

OTH, an active Harelquin would guarantee a buy-- probably the inclusion of several INFINITY, INC characters would. Hmmm- Sportsmaster and Icicle as villains (the latter straddling the good buy/bad guy line) would.

But if DC's going to stick with everyone having to be young and single, then there won't be that generational aspect which I love.

And I won't be buying.

wait .. what ? Weren't there 52 before? Which one is JSA replacing? Are there now 53? Was one of the previous 52 a dummy title? Was this stunt planned all along .....

Is the Mr Terrific comic on Earth 2 as well ?


Totes ... perplexed.

Child, must I direct you to my JSA Facebook page for more details from Bleeding Cool?

I'm sure All-Star Western or Hawk and Dove will be gone by then.

'cause if there is ONE thing I HATE-- it is promoting my Facebook pages... AS IS WELL-KNOWN.


https://www.facebook.com/JSAallstars


https://www.facebook.com/groovy70sTT


https://www.facebook.com/legionworld


https://www.facebook.com/starsearchers


https://www.facebook.com/giffengiffans

drat ... I'm only a member of 4 out of 5 of Lash's facebook pages. Not to mention hizzelf.

4 out of 5...? *choke!!*

5+ Stars for me. All of Lash's pages are groovy!

Okay, to get something out of the way first, I looked in on the last issue of the pre-reboot JSofA. What a load of utter pigswill, with the plot hammer's shadow in most panels. [And who the hell thought that Sentinel design was a good idea?]

With that out of the way...

Earth-2 is a mistake. It turns the JSA into Spider-Girl - a niche-within-a-niche product that people may buy into at the start, but will fritter away sales as they go on. As the Founding Fathers of the DCU, they had a Status (which was diluted in the last volume, it seems, by turning the book into "random Golden Age descendent Monthly"). Off in their own little pigeon-hole, they're a curio that will have to be substantially better than a DCU-JSA simply to maintain the same level of interest.

Still perplexed since one month ago I heard the words "NO JSA" come out of Didio's mouth myself.

Does DC really not have their act together month to month? The article on bleeding cool seems to suggest they were in talks about JSA last month ... so why the big phony "JSA are resting" B.S.

Anyway, it's unprofessional at best, or a stunt to drum up drama which I don't appreciate.

I don't wanna be a buzzkill, I will probably check out the JSA book but ... the people at DC don't seem very ... 'together'. To put it nicely.

I agree with Reboot. The legacy aspect of the JSA is why I was interested in them in the first place. Almost all the comics published during my lifetime (I was born in 1991) as well as TV shows such as JLU had all the characters living in one universe. The decision to place the JSA back on their own Earth doesn't appeal to me.

I'm hopeful the legacy aspect will be part of the Earth-2 stories (perhaps with Infinity Inc characters mixed with Stargirl, Cyclone, etc). Otherwise, count me as a fan that would miss that too. I liked watching Alan, Ted, and Jay rub shoulders with the new kids and trying to give them some direction.

I plan on still picking up the book provided nothing horribly off-putting is announced. I like the creative team enough. Robinson's recent work is balanced out for me by the fact his love for Jade and Obsidian will probably ensure some of the Infinitor generation carries over even as supporting cast.

It hasn't been announced when the series is starting, so it still may be 6 months out (based on release date - not solicita), we don't know yet. So he will just claim that even though it was in process, it was still keeping them on the bench at the time.

As far as the Earth 2 thing goes. For years, a lot of us that grew up with Earth 2, have been wanting this development and we are happier than anything with it. Now it may turn out to be the wtong move, but it may turn out great.

Part of why I always loved the Legion and JSA was because of the separation from the main DCU. We now have that seperation again for the JSA.

Not going to be for everyone...but a lot of what they are doing isn't for me...I'm just glad they're doing something I can get behind.

Right now, it looks like the "legacy" characters are tending toward the DCnU, not Earth-2, and Robinson's apparently been talking about using the JSAers killed in Zero Hour. That all suggests a very "classic" JSA, perhaps even set in the past (with a "slower timestream" sort of excuse, meaning 2012 in the DCnU is 1942 on E2?).

And, besides, if they didn't inspire the "real" characters - i.e., the ones who all have their own books - that diminishes their status a lot even if they have a E2 legacy.

From: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=34133
James Robinson's announcement that a Justice Society book is on the way was met with an especially positive reaction, as he made a point of explaining how the heroes will co-exist with the Justice League given the new timeline.

"Everyone's saying, 'How can there be superheroes before the five years?' We're actually bringing back Earth-2." Robinson explained the benefit of returning the JSA to the alternate Earth has to do with the availability of characters. "One of the problems with the Justice Society pre-[New] 52 is that so many of them were dead. There were very, very few of them alive, but you're going to see some people that haven't been around for a while fighting crime and being a part of the team again, so just bear with us."

cheers Dev.

Just a theory as to his motivations for saying what he said. Not sure if it's true though.

Nicola rules!!

I am VERY VERY EXCITED.

YAY!!!

This was my thought in terms of them wanting to bring back Earth-2. Robinson obsviously loves the Golden Age, but the version he'd been saddled with was lacking Superman and Wonder Woman. This could be his chance to have the *entire* original JSA. (I hadn't considered Batman since he was dead, but I guess that'd be an interesting addition)

^That would make me soooo happy.

Meh. I liked the integrated post-Crisis universe.

That being the only solution to save the JSA, I think Earth 2 is a good idea.

I personally never understood why Earth 2 had to go in the first place. Parallel Earth - what's not to understand? Let's give a warm welcome back to the annual JLA/JSA crossover - maybe introduce Earth 2 during such a crossover, could be cool - and everything is back as it was 1978... that's when I started reading superhero comics

I also liked the legacy aspect of JSA, but those things obviously have no future in the DCU. The Legion was rebooted when TPTB felt that it was better to produce an Archie Legion. Spiderman was rebooted because some guys felt he was not accessible enough being married And the JSA now is the next victim. Sad to see, but at least for them there a decent alternative with Earth 2.

I say we now have, again, the best possible outcome.

We can have brand new JSA tales set in WWII

We can now have modern era JSA tales that incorporate the recent JSA history, like Kingdom Come Superman.

We can have both at the same time.

Why not? In fact, I could see the Shazam family on the same earth as well as the Charlton characters. I'd take just about all the "guest star groups" from the old JLA/JSA crossover tales and set them on the same earth. Wouldn't bother me a bit to see five or six books set on that earth and let the JLA have the stinkin' new one. I'd take that universe over the other any day. I'd cross over to the Earth 1 for a book or three, legion being one. But I'd be real happy with nothing but earth 2 if thats all that was available.

Someone put Ric on the payrolol at DC please!

The final issue has been read. A fairly meh ending for this version of the JSA.

Here's to Earth-2!

What a great cover though. It's worth 2 bucks by itself.

Oh yeah, the cover rocked it OUT.

Yeah...need to buy that issue, if only for the cover.

I finally got around to reading the last issue of Justice Society today and in doing so, I remember why I was putting it off for so long. After years of decline, the series has ended with a whimper, and rather than elicit any type of emotion for me, all it made me do was sigh. What was once DC’s best series had become one of its worst. Perhaps its cancellation is a good thing, after all.

While some people point to Geoff leaving (the second time) as the turning point in quality decline, I believe firmly that Geoff’s first departure truly reflected that. The series *never* regained its quality when it restarted as “Justice Society of America” (instead of JSA). There were blips on the radar but for the most part it was an unwieldy, shoddy mess. But perhaps it goes even further back? Reboot once said he thought it was when Goyer left as co-writer waaaay back years ago; I think he might have been on to something. Regardless, the quality of the title has been in decline for over (5) years now. It’s a shame really. I love the characters, but I don’t like crappy stories.

I’m eagerly looking forward to an Earth-2 scenario for the JSA. If it’s a continuation of E2 continuity just prior to Crisis on Infinite Earths (with Infinity Inc. on the cusp of being the new JSA), I’d be okay with it. If its actually the Golden Age JSA getting the focus (even with Superman and Batman), I think I’d like that even better. Anything, really, but this.

PS - great cover!