Well Legion Lost lives to fight another day, but DC is axing its six lower selling New 52 books to make way for the second Wave.

Cancelled:

OMAC
Static Shock
Hawk and Dove
Men of War
Blackhawks
Mister Terrific

Newly Announced:

Batman Inc. by Morrison and Burnham

Earth 2 by Robinson and Scott

World's Finest Earth-2 Huntress and Power Girl by Levitz, Perez and Maguire

Dial H by China Miéville and Mateus Santoluoco

G.I. Combat featuring the "War that Time Forgot" by Krul and Olivetti (with backups of Haunted Tank and Unknown Soldier by various)

Ravagers (Titans spin-off) by Mackie and Churchill.


http://dcu.blog.dccomics.com/2012/01/12/dc-comics-in-2012-%E2%80%93-introducing-the-%E2%80%9Csecond-wave%E2%80%9D-of-dc-comics-the-new-52/

I'm very interested in the first four, and like the idea of GI Combat, but no interest in Ravagers.

Earth 2 and World's Finest both intrigue me.

The Ravagers sounds very much like the beginning premise of Gen 13, which I loved, and, given the name and premise, seems likely to include Caitlin Fairchild and Rose Wilson among the starting characters. I'll give that a shot.

What a shame about OMAC.

So World's Finest is Earth-2 Huntress and Power Girl trapped in "our world", which I assume means the main DCU? I'm surprised they didn't call it "JSA Lost".

I'm definitely adding Earth 2 and World's Finest. Dial H might be interesting, but, I'm sorry, the world does not need another Batman title.

Well it's the conclusion to Morrison's six year long Batman run, so I imagine it carries more weight than some other titles. I do question the need for Batman & Robin, if we have Inc. though.

World's Finest, a resounding YES!

Earth 2, I'll definitely try the first issue.

Ravagers, dear God no!

Batman, Inc., I'd rather Morrison write his second volume of memoirs.

The other two, I'm indifferent towards.

Earth 2 and World's Finest are the two I'm looking forward to. I'll check out Ravagers and Dial H.

WORLD'S FINEST featuring Huntress and Power Girl is a title that is almost tailor-made for JUST ME

EARTH 2... I am TOTALLY surprised they didn;t use the JSA title, but I wouldn't be surprised if the JSA eventually does have its own title while the EARTH 2 book focuses on *OTHER* heroes of Earth 2 that I suspect will be there...

Of the cancellations, OMAC was the only book I was reading, but it was a favorite. Hate to see it go. Pre-new DC, it never would have lasted past issue 6.

Of the six cancelled, I was collecting four, though I was on the verge of dropping one more. Of the six being offered, I'm definitely getting four, so it kind of is a wash. I will try out the other two, though.

Agreed. This was a surprise delight for me of the entire Nu52. I also miss Static Shock which was a fun little comic, and of course I'll miss Men at War, which was one of my favorites (more on that in a moment). I dropped Blackhawks and Mr. Terrific pretty quickly and was on the verge with Hawk & Dove.

Of the new offerings:

Batman, Inc. - hell yes, as a continuation of Morrison's run, but I'm in total agreement with Dave that they should cancel Batman & Robin to make room for it. That title (and Dark Knight) are totally unnecessary.

G.I. Combat - big yes for me as I really loved Men at War as thematically its a good replacement. While I personally wish there was more of a true war focus, like MaW, I understand that the inclusion of traditional DC war heroes might draw in new readers. Besides, I like them all anyway, especially the War that Time Forgot! And Unknown Soldier by Graypal should be awesome.

JSA & World's Finest - big yes from me. I've been waiting for the E2 JSA, but I'm even more pleased by the E2 Huntress and Power Girl team up comic, which is a total shocker. With the creative team of Levitz & Perez (and MacGuire!), my hopes are already rising high. Even with both in the modern DCnU, it feels really right for me.

Ravagers - I won't add it to my pull but I admit I am curious. I think Set's theory is probably right and since I'm enjoying Superboy, I would enjoy a Gen13 origin-ish series with Fairchild and Ravager and hopefully the rest of Gen13 soon after.

Dial H - I would normally have no interest but its written by China Miéville who has tons of street cred for horror and 'the weird'. I'm hoping its very Vertigo-esque and fits in with Swamp Thing and Animal Man; if so, I'm in. If not, I'll likely pass.

I'm also very curious about new creative teams and such for this round of solicitations.

I wasn't reading any of the cancelled books, but I'll probably pick up Earth-2, Batman Inc., and World's Finest...

What Quis said.

Well, Maybe with GI Combat instead of Dial H...vut ya never know.

I am sad to see Hawk and Dove, OMAC, Blackhawks, Mr. Terrific, and Static books cancelled. I really liked them all.

sigh...

but I cant wait to get all 6 new books.

A couple of the sketches at the back of some of the current DC issues that I get look interesting.
At least, the two or three females have covered boobs and butts, which is refreshing.

I am somewhat <strike>relieved</strike> surprised to learn that Liefeld art wasn't enough to keep Hawk & Dove going.

Mister Terrific was the only one of those six titles which I had bought, and I had already dropped it. The writing wasn't living up to the expectations I had developed from the pre-#1 interviews with the writer which had persuaded me to order the title in the first place, and I never liked the artwork.

I'm a long-time JSA fan, so I'll be getting Earth 2, and I'll at least look at World's Finest.

So with 4 potential titles I'd like to try, my list bloats up again.

Losing "Huntress" and gaining "World's Finest", is a wash, and the end of "Secret Origin" and "Star Trek/LSH" make room for "Dial H" and "Earth 2". I'll definitely be adding Batman Inc, which means I'll be axing a title, probably "Batman" proper (since this Owls storyline looks to go on a while), or the inconsistent "iZombie".

Decisions, decisions.

For the most part I'm not sad to see the cancellations (except for OMAC, mainly because I'm enjoying Giffen's neo-Kirby phase).

Men Of War seemed to be seriously lacking in continuity, leading to a *huh?* reaction after reading each new issue.

I'm hoping to see Mr. Terrific show up in the new Earth-2 series. Michael Holt belongs in the JSA, not in the DCnU.

I had already dropped the other three, so no great loss.

I'm curious to see if the Huntress we have been seeing in the mini is in fact the Earth-2 version. I can see the new WF as a continuation of the mini, especially since they are both written by PL.

I'll probably pass on the others, although that may change depending on which legionnaire ends up becoming a Ravager. I suspect this title ties in with the upcoming Lost/Superboy/Titans crossover, which I suppose I'll have to buy now, even though I haven't been getting either Superboy or the Titans.

I'll be surprised if we don't see a "underwear on the outside" Superman in "Earth 2."

Wouldn't it be funny if the Earth-2 books ended up outselling the DCnU stuff?

Hey hermit...Paul Levitz did say that the Huntres mini is indeed about the Huntress that will be in Worlds Finest, and that he knew with enough time to drop some hints here and there towards the end of the mini. Which I now need to go and find.

You lose that bet:

World's Finest Cover as well:



Not a fan of the new Power Girl Costume. I'd rather go back to the second one she wore (and wore for most of her career).

Her having a Supergirl costume in the "flashback" bit is bizarre. Wasn't the whole point of the "Power Girl" routine that she never wanted to copy Superman?

Huntress looks good. I wish they'd combine PG's union suit with the style of cape she used to wear back in the old days.

So they're retconning PG and Huntress as having been Supergirl and Robin? Bizarre.

And the actual Earth-2 cover isn't inspiring me either.

What I take from these two covers (and, yes, I could be wrong) is that this is "Earth Generation 2", rather than picking up on any prior version of E2. The three on the E2 cover, in that idea, would be Kon-El (?), Dick Grayson and Donna Troy; while the JSA old-timers would just hail from an amorphous couple of decades ago.

Presumably, in that idea, the active E2 Flash will be Wally West, Green Arrow will be Connor Hawke, the GL counterpart will be Jade, etc...

Reboot, that's an interesting idea.

Yeah, definitely an interesting idea, but one that I can't imagine actually pleasing anyone.

I thought I read that World's Finest would have the Earth 2 Power Girl and Huntress traveling between alternate universes trying to get back to Earth 2. If that is the case, then the Supergirl Robin versions would just be from an alternate Earth.

I wouldn't exactly see it as ideal, no. Remembering Robinson's JLA lineup was an erstatz "Big 7" (including Dick, Donna, Jade, Jesse Quick, etc) makes it plausible for me, though.

Plain stuck in the DCnU, rather than dimension-hopping, IIRC...

Reboot, def. an interesting theory and probably would make a great Elseworld-ey type arc.

But I would see it pissing off a crapload of JSA fans if they make this Earth 2...

It's really not implausible at all, and I actually wouldn't even mind it in principle as a way of dealing with the "too many generations" problem, except for the association of the names "Earth-2" and "Justice Society" with it.

Well, Robinson's said that it's called "Earth-2" rather than JSA because he wants to use it as a world-building exercise, although the JSA will be the leads (who the *current* JSA are is another question. Presumably Alan Scott, Jay Garrick and so forth will be around in some form, at least)

The other point that's pushing me in this direction is the New Teen Titans question. Originally, the line was clear - NTT happened, though it was the "first" Titans team, they were going to have a flashback cameo in Teen Titans #2 and Cyborg was going to be sent off to join them at the end of the past-set first JL arc, but be back with the JL in the present day. And at some point - after some references crept into Red Hood/Outlaws and Batwoman - the line shifted so that there was never a Teen Titans group before Lobdell's team *and* Wally & Donna [& Garth] didn't exist at all in the DCnU (rather than just not being in a book just now). What caused that shift?

So... going with your hypothesis... it raises a ton of questions...

Does Wally West become Jay Garrick's sidekick? Or was there a Barry Allen on Earth-2 as well?

Are Donna Troy and Lyta Trevor merged? For the record... I kind of like the name "Donna Trevor".

Definitely bizarre.

My first reactions would be "yes" to Wally being Jay's sidekick/successor, and "no" to the merging. My bet [bearing in mind that there are at least three levels of bet involved, so the odds are getting slim! ] would be that with Helena apparently being Robin to DG, I'd think of Fury being either the sidekick to Donna (still as Diana's "younger sister") or someone striking off on her own rather than taking up her mother's costume/role.

I could handle a mash up of the NTT and Infinity Inc running around.

The more I think on it (and read here), the more I am getting into the idea. It *could* be really fun.

I still see it upsetting many many fans though (IF it happens).

But Yeah, it's a fun idea...

From your mouths to God's (and Robinson's) ear.

One of the things I love about the JSA is it never revolved around the Big Three. Back in the '40s, Supes and Bats were already considered big "stars" and didn't need the additional exposure of the JSA (hence they were "honorary" members). Wonder Woman was the recording secretary and only made brief appearances. When Jay and Alan received their own titles, they became honorary members. All-Star was a title where second-string characters could become stars. It's always been the team that mattered. Seeing a cover with only the Big Three on it worries me.

It is the Alternate cover though, which do not always have much to do with the interiors.

I know. I guess I feel a little betrayed by this whole thing. I've pretty much read DC Comics exclusively since I was a kid (not counting Archies and Harveys, but that was a different kind of reading). It's like, "Thank you, Mr. Rockhopper, for reading DC Comics for the last 35 years. We appreciate your loyalty and as our special 'thank you', we're going to change every character you love beyond all recognition." again.

I don't get the constant back and forth between making everything all new and bringing back everything as it was.

Dial H, Batman Inc., and World's Finest are the ones I'm truly interested in.

Earth-2's not an option because Robinson's writing it.

Ravagers I have a complete lack of interest in.

I m loving JLDark more than JL and JLI! Black Orchid is back! whoo hoo. Now I....Vampire joins. thats good. I love it!

a lot of old characters are coming back - Lobo, Cheshire, Gorilla Grodd, Silver Banshee, Felix Faust, the Starro....why did not they appear in #1, instead of #6 and on?!?

am intrigued with a new book - Batman Inc....will buy WF, Dial H, Ravagers, and E-2...and GI Robot!!

If anyone still cares:

The next wave of cancellations:

Deathstroke
Fury of Firestorm
Savage Hawkman
Ravager
Sword of Sorcery
Team 7

Disappointing to see Sword of Sorcery go, even though I only read the first two issues.

All great characters and concepts, and every one of those series was complete shit in execution. I tried each one and they ALL SUCKED.

Considering the quality of DC's series, there are few titles that don't deserve a harsh cancellation.

But hey, they'll launch 6 more new reboots that will probably also be incredibly poorly done.

The sad part is with these titles being cancelled, that makes Legion about the lowest selling title not cancelled yet. Guess who's probably on the chopping block on the next round of cancellations. The only thing that might save the Legion is Levitz's influence in the company.

I do hope that if Legion does get the axe, that Levitz is at least able to bring the Legion Lost team back home. I want the Legion all back together if things end.

Apparently, the replacements include two new politically-themed titles.

THE MOVEMENT #1
Written by GAIL SIMONE
Art by FREDDIE WILLIAMS II
Cover by AMANDA CONNER
1:25 Variant cover by CLIFF CHIANG
On sale MAY 1 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US • RATED T+
Retailers: This issue will ship with two covers. Please see the order form for more information.
We are faceless. We are limitless. We see all. And we do not forgive.
Who defends the powerless against the GREEDY and the CORRUPT? Who protects the homeless and poverty-stricken from those who would PREY upon them in the DARK OF NIGHT?
When those who are sworn to protect us abuse their power, when toxic government calls down super-human lackeys to force order upon the populace…finally, there is a force, a citizen’s army, to push order BACK. Let those who abuse the system know this as well: We have our OWN super humans now. They are not afraid of your badges or Leagues. And they will not be SILENCED.
We are your neighbors. We are your co-workers. And we are your children.

THE GREEN TEAM #1
Written by ART BALTAZAR and FRANCO
Art by IG GUARA
Cover by AMANDA CONNER
1:25 Variant cover by CLIFF CHIANG
On sale MAY 22 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US • RATED T

This issue will ship with two covers.
INVENTORS! EXPLORERS! ADVENTURERS! Do you need money to finance an important project? Then you should set up a meeting with THE GREEN TEAM!
• Nature of world-changing idea:
• Amount requested:
• Does your project have the potential to:
Fracture space-time?
Replace the combustion engine?
Attract extraterrestrial attention?
Prove/disprove existence of deities?
Piss off The Justice League?
Render the human body obsolete?
If any of the above are checked, please fill out liability release form GT2013-05. Send any 82 drawings, plans, models, or photos with request.

Love Baltazar and Franco. I'll definitely be picking that one up. It will be interesting to see them write a more "mature" sounding book.

The Movement sounds interesting. I might check that one out.

Mind you it sounds pretty similar to the Arrow TV series.

And so the DC Meltdown continuums...

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/03...ff-john-stewart-dcs-black-green-lantern/

F-ing ridiculous. DC is just killing everyone off. I do not have proper words for how sick I am of the sad, insulting way DC is treating beloved characters.

Don't worry, I'm sure the Legion will be the next to go!

Viva la backissues!

Plus, Andy Diggle walked off Action Comics before his first issue was even printed because of his own objections to DC's direction. (For those curious, Tony *groan* Daniel will write as well as provide art).

At least the creators are showing some backbone and walking off.

I wonder if this snuff film we're watching will ever end?

All this carnage HAS to be leading up to something, right? Damien Wayne, John Stewart, probably a half-dozen Legionnaires, who's next? Is it just editorial killing off any character that don't fit into their NU52 mold? Are they just tying up loose ends?

hahahahaha. I don't think that anything rational can be found in this wreckage. good on you for trying though.

They're panicking (more): http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/03/21/john-stewart-he-lives/

Gail Simone, Orson Scott Card, now this.

DC feels like Commodus in Gladiator: a madman forcibly having to bend to the will of the people.

DC is obviously busy handling the Cyprus non-bailout.

If they'd quit making stupid decisions, it might not seem like that.

Seriously? This is why the phase, "head up butt" was invented. Someone at DC is living in a differently reality. I'm not sure they understand that their livelihood and that of an awful lot of people depends upon their ability to "entertain."

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/the-q-creators-talk-editorial-conflict.html

Here's a sample:

Yeah, that seemed a bit shitty to me for anonymous to lay the blame at the Fan's feet when we are the ones that have been sayin' WTF is going on over there? We've been saying something is wrong for several years now. hell, they even ditched the DC Boards because the negatives were to obvious to the new boss's coming in.

When they went to Facebook, lots of us left them. Then you have the new 52 which is pretty much... meh... for the most part. The shitty costumes combined with really crappy re-inventions for the most part of characters like Hawkman... There were too few hits off the new books, with far too few good writers or artists to tote the load.

Yeesh, just because a lot of fans are putting up with it doesnt mean they LIKE it. Fans are loyal to a fault sometimes and will buy just to help their favorites succeed. Statements like those are the kinds that will alienate those most loyal fans. Shame.

I'd hardly call the people that go and gobble up variant covers and similar gimmicks ... fans. I notice a lot of guys on Wednesday at my local comic shop gobbling up loads of books, several copies of each. I have no idea what they are doing but I doubt they need two or five copies of each JLA variant cover to read.

*snap*

New cancellations:

Legion of Super-Heroes
Threshold
Dial H
Demon Knights

Three of those (not Demon Knights) are the three books I'd been buying on a monthly basis. Starting September, until the debut of the new Legion (I'm sure the franchise won't be dormant for long), I'll actually have zero pull list. First time in a long, long time.

With the loss of Demon Knights, that leaves my DC books at-

Batgirl
Batwoman
Nightwing
Earth 2
JL Dark
World's Finest
Fables
Fairest

-Pretty sad. My buddy Mike's still getting Aquaman, Flash and all of the GL books, which are safe because they're JL-related titles. If I cut anything that wasn't Bat- or JL- tied, I'd be down to buying Fables and Fairest, and trades for Animal Man, AmVamp and The Unwritten... 1 DCnU and 4 Vertigo.

At this point, it's like Robin Arryn is running things. (Little Game of Thrones humor).

Well, with Dial H and LSH going, I'll be down to zero DCnUs, as I've recently decided to drop Batman and 'Tec. There's a chance that I might try Lemire's Green Arrow, but that's the only thing even possibly on the horizon for me in their main 'verse.

That leaves only a handful of Vertigos and possibly the fun-sounding Batman '66 book for DC to get hold of some of my hard-earneds.

My four DC books cancelled, it figures. Well, I'm still getting Stormwatch and Fables/Fairest, but I expect Stormwatch to be cancelled.

Oh well, more money for Image.



Sometimes I think it's more like Joffrey is running things.

Tried Green Arrow and it stunk. Lemire's Animal Man also entered "outright bad" territory.

Batman '66 does look pretty much awesome!

With Legion cancelled, my DC output has dropped even more significantly since this Nu52 began.

The only monthly DC title I'm still getting is Flash. I want to get back into the Superman books again but it's hard to get excited for this Nu52 version. Hopefully Synder and Lee's book will be good (change the name though. Unchained? Really?)

With Threshold and Legion going that leaves me with just Supergirl and Wonder Woman from the New52.

If it wasn't for their excellent Dugital First books I would be buying more Marvel than DC come the summer and that has never happened before.

It's feeling like the early 70s all over for me, when my favorite titles all seemed to disappear at once, leaving me with no reason to keep checking out the comic racks.

At this point the only current titles I'll be getting are Earth 2, Worlds' Finest, Fables/Fairest, Dark Tower, Stormwatch, and JL Dark (and those last two are iffy at this point). It may be wiser just to wait for the TPB versions and then order them online. I really hate to do that to my "local" CBS owner, who has always done right by me, but it's getting hard for me to justify the 50+ mile round trip for just a handful of titles (yeah, all you Westerners and Southerners, NY state actually does have boonies).

Only DC books I get after LSH And Threshold end will be...

Larfleeze and He-Man. Both for Giffen. Plus He-Man has been a hoot so far.

A;though Batman '66 may get a looksie.

^ Larfleeze and He-Man??? I'm tempted (but too lazy) to attempt a psychological profile of someone who'd choose those two books above all others from the DC trash pile.

Bleeding Cool is rumoring a new Booster Gold series. If that's true, it would be hard for me to resist that one. I've passed on picking up All-Star Western again, despite Booster being in it, but I dearly love the character and couldn't pass on a new solo ongoing.

No profile needed...I said it was for Giffen that I am picking those up. He-Man just happens to be a lot of fun.

Not sure I would get either if not for Keith though.

Solicits for Villains Month in September are trickling out. Thus far revealed:

BATMAN #23.1: THE JOKER
BATMAN #23.2: THE RIDDLER
BATMAN #23.3: THE PENGUIN
BATMAN #23.4: BANE
DETECTIVE COMICS #23.1: POISON IVY
DETECTIVE COMICS #23.2: HARLEY QUINN
DETECTIVE COMICS #23.3: THE SCARECROW
DETECTIVE COMICS #23.4: MAN-BAT
BATMAN: THE DARK KNIGHT #23.1: THE VENTRILOQUIST
BATMAN: THE DARK KNIGHT #23.2: MR. FREEZE
BATMAN: THE DARK KNIGHT #23.3: CLAYFACE
BATMAN: THE DARK KNIGHT #23.4: THE JOKER’S DAUGHTER

There's a running theme here beyond "villains", but I can't think what it is...

Oh, and they're bumping the price of everything to $4 to pay for "3D" covers.

The Joker's Daughter is the only one that even remotely interests me from that list. But I've never really gotten into most of Batman's villains.

The Flash's Rogues Gallery, with Captain Cold and Mirror Master and Gorilla Grodd, totally owns my soul. Not so much the deadly dull anti-Flashes, like Professor Zoom.

Depending on the incarnations, a book looking at Ocean Master or Black Manta could also rock.

I'm sure Luthor and Deathstroke and Sinistro will get some attention (assuming any of them still count as 'villains' in the new DCU), although I'd be tickled if more interesting (and less over-used) villains like Angle Man, Giganta, Madame Rouge and Chronos got some love (again, assuming any of them are villains in the new DCU, since they may not exist yet...).

I'm not surprised, but really--just when you think they can't sink any lower.

Just read a few of the interviews, and Johns is excited because villains are his "Sweet Spot". That may have been true back in the day, but I don’t think it is anymore. This event seems tailor made for the regime in charge: we can have all the villains do really gratuitously violent things, unencumbered by this whole hero part of the equation. I wonder if the temptation will be too great for Didio to just leave this as status quo. Who needs boring heroics getting in the way when you can just do all the rotten villain stuff all the time?

The JLDark v-month has a Japanese mythology-styled Creeper... ugh. Depending on the solicits for Nightwing, Batgirl and Batwoman, I might just boycott the whole month.

There may not be any. It looks a lot like Dark Knight #23.1 is the Batgirl counterpart. [Similarly, Earth 2 #15.1 looks a lot like it was meant to be the Worlds' Finest issue.]

*TAKES DEEP BREATH* I think I have decided, that when I next return to the comic shop, I am going to drop -ALL- DC titles.

I'll finish out LSH. I won't add LARFLEEZE but will reserve the right to pick it up on a month to month basis. But I'm done being committed with DC for now. I just ---CAN'T--- anymore.

I might be in the same boat. At the very least, I'm skipping the whole month.

Already beat you guys to it. I'm finishing out Legion and Dial H (the latter of which is just so superb, it's a shame it had to be a DC book). Batman and 'Tec, the other last holdouts, fell to the knife last month.

So after August, I'll be New 52-free with my Vertigo titles the only things I will be getting from the publisher.

Well there is a Dial H/Justice League crossover written by China packed into the Villain's month issues. Supposedly he creates 20 different villains, drawn by 20 different artists.

Really? As awesome as that sounds, I can't justify buying all those issues for, what, a backup like the Black Freighter things in Before Watchmen? Is that how it will appear? If so, an eventual collection of said backups might be worth getting later.

Oh, I see. It's all in the Justice League 23.4: Dial E. That, I might get.

So on the whole, seems like the New 52 has been a failure for Legion World.

EPIC fail, imo. (Don't wanna speak for everyone, though.)

EPIC FAIL

Epic Fail. Comics and the company.

I really don't get why people expected the New 52 to be anything but a total failure.

DC was a total shambles of a company even before the New 52. In fact, the completely rushed, transparently desperate move to reboot* their whole universe and thus fundamentally change everything about THE ONE THING the company still had going for it, it's wonderful world and characters, rather than taking a long, hard look at the creators they were hiring to work on them and the types of stories they were allowing to be published under their brand, was just more evidence that the editorial side there had no idea what they were doing.

But ironically enough, the New 52 was also our best opportunity to get rid of Didio, Harras, Lee, et al and finally ensure that a much needed regime change took place at DC. ALL people had to do was what I did - not buy any of their books; Just resist the urge for a few months and then all would have been good again.

If more people had done that, rather than falling for 'The Emperor's New Clothes', the New 52 would have been scrapped within a year, those hacks would have all been fired, and we'd hopefully all be reading good comics about our favourite characters again.

It's probably too little, too late now but I'm glad people have finally started to see the light and drop their books. Unfortunately, now that DC has seen that gimmicks like the New 52 work, they're just going to keep rolling out gimmick after gimmick trying to match it. Meanwhile, they'll keep canceling all their lower selling books and replacing them with Batman/Green Lantern/Superman/Justice League spin offs until all their B/C/D name characters are in limbo or event canon-fodder.

As low as DC is right now (and for me, that's sub-basement low) I think they've still got lower to sink while the editors flail around throwing everything eveywhere trying to find a gimmick that works. But if people just keep dropping their books then, one day, WB *has* to fire the Didiot. And then, then things will get better... (hopefully).

* The fact that, two years later, they still can't even decide if it was a reboot or not is just par for the course with those buffoons.

Hey, you can't pin this on me, I didn't buy even one.

Blacula, considering their continued slip in sales, I'd say people are continually abandoning DC and we will get to that point--just not as quick as you and I wanted.

And hey, I've been mother-fucking DC since 2007! I used to buy ALL of their books. Now I'm down to like 6.

I think it might be a better indication that buyers have tried the New 52 and are abandoning it. So Didio clearly failed in maintaining the old and in starting his own fresh thing. How many chances will they give him?

If nobody bought the New 52 at all Didio would be whining that the work was good "but nobody even gave it a chance!" Which frankly would be a fair point.

Take heart from the D&D example: Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition is so different from ALL previous editions as to rightly be called a different game. Now of course it's going to have some fans, but this is the shortest turnaround to a new edition being announced and playtested ever, 4 years!

In the meantime, another company, Paizo, continued Third Edition (now called Pathfinder) under the Open Game License and are now their main competition. That, plus the Old School Renaissance of players using earlier edition has shown D&D the light.

The next edition will supposedly accommodate styles of play for all editions. They may fail at that, but they're trying.

[tangent] Huge Paizo / Pathfinder fan. I have all their stuff. I wonder what it would be like if there was an 'open comic license' and third parties could write stories set in the DCU? Meh. Not workable, from an Intellectual Property standpoint, I suppose. [/tangent]

There was, in that copyright used to expire, but Disney managed to essentially change the rules.

Dude, I understand your frustration. But if it hadn't been Didio, it would have been somebody else making decisions that were just as misguided.

Radical reformers are no more going to rise to the upper echelons of DC-Warner than they're gonna' rise to the upper echelons of The Catholic Church. That's not how giant, top-down organizations work, regardless of what's selling well this year and what's not.

While my regular pull list has whittled down to almost nothing. I must admit that a few of these do tempt me. Kindt and Fisch writing one shots about Deadshot and Metallo? That sounds cool enough. I'm just worried how much of it they'll write and how much will be dictated by the crossover.

Another interesting article talking about the wasteland of creativity that is DC these days -

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/06...ks-about-leaving-dc-and-marvel-for-boom/

The new 52 had unlimited potential, it isn't the fault of lifelong fans of DC's characters that the potential was snafu'ed. The first 6 months or so of many titles were pretty good.

Meanwhile, I'm just really really enjoying sinking tits deep back into the Marvel universe. I know it is still early, but Marvel NOW **feels** more successful to me than the New 52 when it was at this same point... maybe because these are still the same Marvel characters they were in the 70s and 80s...

Of course, with DC even before the new 52 many of their characters weren't really the same characters from the 70s and 80s.

Anyway, I have a strong suspicion at this point that we'll be seeing Action Comics #1000 published sometime in the early 2020s.

EDE:



Not for lack of trying. Hal Jordan, Barry Allen, Oliver Queen, Kara Zor-El...

Wow, hadn't thought of that. They've been trying for YEARS to go back in time. Then they about face again.

Kinda reminds you of New Coke, doesn't it?

Marvel's current success is that each title stands completely on its own, under the vision of the creators. And most of their series are thriving because of it.

I haven't been this impressed by Marvel ever in my "buy off the rack" lifetime (roughly 1990/92-Present).

Really? That's the point of Marvel Now? I'm impressed they came to their senses. Let's see how long they hold off the next "event".

Cobie, you missed some really good off-the-rack years in the 70s and 80s at Marvel. 90s was when Marvel began its slow descent into the shitter, as you are well aware.

Although I will give them props... they always managed to have at least a couple of titles that kept me onboard... SHE-HULK... INHUMANS... Allred's X-FORCE/X-STATIX... ULTIMATES... SUPREME POWER... EXILES... DnA's GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY... FRANKLIN RICHARDS... MARVEL ZOMBIES... YOUNG AVENGERS... and a few more I am sure I'm forgetting.

But I think most of us can commend them for never tossing out all of their multiverse babies, bathwater, and washbasins... MULTIPLE TIMES!

Marvel, it's hard for a hardcore DC fanboy to admit... but YOU are the BETTER comics company.

Their INFINITY event was the point of their FCBD offering this year and hits solicits next month. Six issue mini, not sure how it will tie in with books outside Avengers...

Some of the title choices puzzle me, but I am happy about that the Fawcett characters are being featured in comics. If they get the marketing right, these characters are sure to be a success. I became interested in the Fawcett characters because of a friend, but must admit that the original successful marketing of the characters cemented my support.

Marvel toyed around with their Ultimates line, attempting to find ways to make their iconic properties (like Captain America and Iron Man and Thor) more 'accessible' to the modern day audience, without messing with the actual mainstream continuity versions of Cap and Thor, etc.

DC was a tiny bit handicapped by their original decision, way back in Crisis on Infinite Earths, to do away with alternate versions of Superman, Batman, etc. to 'strengthen their core brands' by having only one definitive version of each character. That might have made sense, in the sense of 'brand dilution = bad' from a marketing perspective, but now they are in the awkward position of having to reboot their entire continuity when they want to reposition characters for movie and TV launches. (As opposed to just flat out going the Smallville and Arrow routes and having their different media interpretations be significantly different than their comic book versions, which seems, IMO, to be working just fine...)

I really see DCs flailing around in this arena being nearly three decades old fallout from the thinking that led to Crisis on Infinite Earths in the first place (too much brand dilution will confuse the poor dumb readers!) and an epic fail on the part of DCs marketing people, who have *still* not figured out that the people who go to see Batman movies (or Iron Man movies) are *not* a 100% correlation with people who buy Batman comic books (or Iron Man comic books).

The comic books readers are, for the most part, going to go anyway, and no matter how many of them kvetch about this or that detail being 'wrong,' they'll keep coming *and* they'll be outnumbered by the people who will go to see a Batman (or Iron Man) movie and have never read a Batman comic in their life, and, no matter how epic the movie is, *never will.*

Where DC *does* seem to have figured it out is with their animation department. Young Justice, for instance, was a pretty radical departure from conventional Justice League, Teen Titans *or* Young Justice continuity, and exceeded all expectations because of that, IMO. Now it's been discontinued, partly I suspect, for the same 'brand dilution' issue, and will be relaunched, if ever, as some homogenized marketing-friendly-by-the-official-playbook part of the greater franchise.

Occasional flashes of out of the box brilliance at Marvel *sometimes* get noticed, and incorporated. Occasional flashes of out of the box brilliance at DC seem more likely to get ruthlessly culled and forced into the same flavorless one-size-fits-all brand.

See I think a crossover event within the titles of a given franchise is fine. In fact, it's an actual event, in that it's trying to be something cool for the people who are already interested in the characters rather than trying to get every customer of the entire line excited and buying it.

Lash--I WISH I could have been buying off the rack in the 60's, 70's and 80's! Particularly the X-Men in the Claremont years. That must have been incredible!

Set, great post with a ton of great points!

Not sure how Infinity will be but their recent Age of Ultron event was totally set to the side for customers to decide if they wanted in or not. The individual titles has tie-ins that were not part of the actual numbering; they were really one shots with #AU as the number. So I was able to skip every single issue and be none the wiser. From a "don't want to be bothered by it" perspective it was the best crossover ever for me! I've enjoyed all the series I collect with no interruption!

Well that's a step in the right direction. Now if only they can get rid of variant covers.

I loudly applaud Marvel's usage of the special numbering for its ULTRON tie-in issues, making it simple to avoid them if so desired. Because they handled it with such class, I bought all ULTRON tie-in issues of regular Marvel books I am currently collecting, despite NOT buying the Ultron miniseries event itself. For the record, the ones I bought were pretty well-done.

So, I hit the CBS today. I dropped Justice League because, really-- who gives a crap about this version? And He-Man because I don't care for the upcoming costume changes and bringing in the Fauxty2-DCU to the series.

So I didn't quite totally ditch DC entirely yet, but I'm down to just Aquaman, Stormwatch, Earth 2 and Worlds' FInest, and the final few LSH issues. For me, that's very very few DCs.