A decent Trailer.

On the heels of Smallville, a superhero show I expect to have lots fewer special effects...

looks intersting, but there are some changes, like his mom being alive from what the trailer seems to indicate. Still, seems like they are keeping close to the island origin.

I miss the 'Green'. Will be DVRing this for a few episodes at least, and see how it goes.

"Starling City"? And a bald, industrialist type villain?

Interesting... I'll definitely check it out...

Does it make as much sense to have a rich business villain when the hero is also rich? You don't usually see money on both sides of the hero-villain duo.

Okay, gay fan boys who aren't currently buying DC comics. Time to put your principles aside and get out and buy a DC comic this week. There's a smoldering hot ad for the Arrow series featuring the star, Stephen Amell, shirtless and with a smoldering hot full camera stare down. The internet images aren't the same. You NEED to own this on real live paper.

You should see it 30 feet tall on the side of a building. Definitely caught my eye.

way cool!! when will it be on?

Series premiere is October 10 on the CW.

if that isn't enough ... John Barrowman is joining the cast.


SQUEEEEE!

Nice... ...and the Huntress is to make an appearance in the third episode.

Pilot was actually pretty good. Weakest parts was probably the addition of sisters for both "Laurel" Lance, and Oliver Queen and miscasting the actor playing Drakkon (his slight stature being a major component of the character). It the comics Ollie agonized over killing, but the new television version certainly does not. Lots of interesting concepts and characters introduced, hopefully the show will get a chance to resolve them.
On the Doctor Who front, beyond the teased John Barrowman's "Well Dressed Man" the actor playing Ollie's stepdad played Dr. Moon in the two-part DW episode that introduced River Song.

I actually thought Ollie's sister was a pretty decent way to introduce a "Speedy" into the show.

"Starling City" kind of grated with me, though.

I kind of liked the pilot. Not sure if this will be a must-watch for me, but I am pretty curious about who will pop up (Black Canary) and what they will look like.

BTW, the first episode was for the CW kinda what The Walking Dead is for AMC (massively successful):


http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/10/11/nashville-ratings/

I like the show so far, but there's a danger of it taking itself a bit too seriously. It needs something to balance the severity of Ollie's mission. "Smallville" had the humanizing element of Clark's very grounded unrequited love for Lana and feelings of alienation and uncertainty. It remains to be seen what "Arrow" will have to fulfill that function. (the stuff on the island certainly doesn't seem as though it will provide much levity or normality)

I'm not the biggest Green Arrow fan, so I'm sure I missed a bunch of references, but I still got a lot of them. Honestly, I find the little nods to comic book history a bit distracting when it's not germane to the plot.

All in all a good start, but not exactly a "must see" yet.

Some pretty cheesy bits in the second episode, but still a fun watch.

I tried to watch it, but had a hard time getting into it.

I dig it, though it is a bit...serious. I don't recall Ollie being quite this intense in the comics, but it's been years since I read them so perhaps my memory is a bit faulty.

I'll be honest with you though...i'm going to keep watching this just for more of those delicious shirtless shots of Ollie.

RAWR.

I'm kinda liking how it's two stories in one. At the moment, I'm intrigued by the mystery of what happened on the island to result in those scars, and also result in Ollie learning to speak Chinese.

(Since it was an island in the south China sea, I suppose it makes sense that he'd run into smugglers or refugee/dissidents or some secret military listening post or whatever from China, out there. Or possibly just a cranky old hermit with a bow...)

Shirtless shots of Ollie are a running theme since Justin Hartley played him in Smallville, and certainly drew me in too. They're all over Manhattan as billboards at the moment.

Aside from his body, I liked the pilot I'm happy to say. Haven't seen the second ep yet. Unfortunately it seems it's no available through On Demand on cable.

The lame-ass CW apparently doesn't do On-Demand. I dvr'ed it but it was interrupted halfway through --right when a big awesome fight was happening-- by a weather report that seemed to go on forever. I'm so annoyed I don't even want to watch the rest on HULU now. I'll read the recap on EW and try again next week.

My opinion remains the same after the second episode. The show needs a bit of levity. It appears that there might be some with his burgeoning friendship with Diggs, but the show's still a bit too much about Ollie's righteous crusade.

The island story is certainly getting more intriguing...

At the moment only the pilot was on free Hulu, second ep was only on Hulu+. Fortunately someone there mentioned seeing it on cwtv.com, so I'm caught up.

It being only the second episode I'm fine with he focus staying on the crusade, how far should it have strayed so soon?

A little more surprising is that I haven't even noticed the lack of humor, and I like a fair amount usually, so the writing must be pretty decent so far. Might make any humor they do write all the more effective when it happens. Or maybe not.

What night does Arrow come on?

Wednesday at 8:00.

Really enjoyed this third episode! There's just one thing that confuses me. Oliver was apparently a four-time private school dropout before he was stranded on an island for five years. And yet he comes back knowing how to craft high tech arrows, hack Interpol, cure poison, and basically be something akin to a scientist. Now, him learning to be a "weapon" I would buy. But where the hell did he learn all this crap?! Certainly not from his long-bearded Chinese friend on the island.

Really enjoyed <strike>Dinah</strike> Laurel kicking ass and Ollie letting Diggle in on his secret (it was going to get pretty unrealistic if he didn't soon...)

I think he learned the poison cure stuff from the Chinese guy, but I was wondering how he was able to pick up electronics and Russian on the island.

Ooh... and secret headquarters under a Nightclub? Yes!

Disco HQ? I expect this thread to spontaneously move to the Titans forum.

PS: Markovia.

I got the feeling that Dig had sort of already figured it out and that he and Ollie were winking at each other about it. I think I would have preferred it stay that way for a few more episodes.

But yeah...i'm hoping that they come up with some sort of explanation as to Ollie's amazing proficiency with electronics and speaking Russian. Chinese makes sense. Russian does not. xD

Whoever 'they' are that the Chinese dude on the island said were going to kill him sound like the source of his mysterious Russian tattoo / Russian skills / assassin skills. We still haven't seen the 'origin' of his many scars (well, the shoulder one, from the arrow, obviously, but there are quite a few others that he may have gotten after being captured by the men in black with the guns).

Perhaps some sort of Russian 'League of Shadows' branch or covert ops group or something uses the island as a training camp?

I imagine it will start to make sense as stuff is revealed.

Kinda hit or miss for me... feel like it's trying too hard to be "The Dark Knight"... loved Laurel kicking ass though... and looking forward to seeing how they depict Huntress...

It is funny that with all the effort that been put since the late 60s to distance GA from the "Batman with a bow and arrow" image, that's the first comparison everyone is drawing in regards to this show.

You know, the comparison doesn't really bother me much. There are tons of characters with dark pasts who fight crime in ways that could be considered questionable. I don't see why Ollie is so special.

I'm personally hoping for ONE likable female character in the show. So far every girl has been almost completely abrasive save the waitress they introduced last episode and the computer chick.

love that show. although its completely different from the books, I still enjoy it! esp seeing shirtless Ollie...ah...

Episode 3:

This is more like it-- I was pretty into this episode. Now that a lot of the setup is out of the way, we're getting down to business!

Deadshot looked cool, but I thought it was pretty lucky Oliver was able to pull off the hit he did in between arm-gun rapid fire. Oh well, disbelief suspended, no problem!

Nice to see Dinah Laurel Lance show that she's got a few moves... I foresee a fun Black Canary, hopefully well before season's end!

I felt in love with nerdy hot IT girl and Digg's sister-in-law's line about him adopting 2 white boys was amusing.

The island flashbacks are heating up too.

I'm onboard unless it just goes totally in the crapper somehow.

Computer chick is apparently a Firestorm supporting character. I'm wondering if she'll somehow end up playing an "Oracle"-type role on the show?

I def. think they are setting things up for Oliver to have a support staff, even showing him realizing he can't do certain THANGS alone. Digg's gonna be onboard, Black Canary is coming (I'll bet), and Computer IT Girl will make a GREAT Oracle-ette!!

So what's computer girl's name?

Felicity Smoak.

Interesting that they should snatch her from Firestorm's mythos and put her here.

Well, if I'm right that she's going to take on an "Oracle" role, since they probably couldn't use Barbara Gordon because she's too closely associated with the Bat-mythos, my guess is they probably just searched around for another DC female supporting character associated with computers.

I agree that seems most likely, though I'm almost impressed that they bothered looking through the DCU for one. I guess the comic fans mean more nowadays than they used to.

Just read that Felicity Smoak is Ronnie Raymond's stepmother. Was she ever helping Firestorm on cases, and was she in on his secret?

It probably has to do with character-ownership issues as much as anything else. If they use an existing DC character, then DC owns the character outright, whereas the situation is often more complicated with characters created specifically for tv shows.

<sigh>

Now that you mention it, that is a far more likely reason. Damn that was silly of me.

Impossible to say really what they were thinking in using a pre-existing DCU character's name for the IT girl. It might have been a 'shout out,' it might have been deliberate, it might have been character-ownership stuff. Maybe even all three...

Somewhat ironically, Chloe Sullivan, an original character for the series, was probably the best thing about Smallville. (Ditto Lionel Luthor, who made far more of a splash than Luthor's original father, 'Jules Thorul'.)

Hard not to make a splash when you've got John Glover.

FOURTH. EPISODE. WAS. SO. GOOD. So many fun twists and turns and unexpected things! I was expecting the new husband to be a bad guy, but it looks like he's not going to be!

It's a shame though that the only likable female is Felicity Smoak. I don't remember Dinah being NEARLY this unpleasant in the comics, but I guess this isn't quite the same character.

I like that he's moved forward on opening up to Diggle, and that things have come to a head with the police chief who I'm having trouble seeing as anyone other than Harry Dresden.

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">My 200 quatloos is that Diggle heads back to the lair, dons the green hood and is publically seen shooting some arrows across town, while Ollie is in custody, 'proving' that Ollie can't be the hooded vigilante...</span></span>

'Robin Hood' and 'the vigilante' are gonna get old, hopefully they start calling him Arrow or Green Arrow soonish, unlike in Smallville, where, ten seasons in, they were still calling him 'the Blur...'

I was sort of wondering when they were going to actually give him a name. I don't even think Ollie has named himself.

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">I wouldn't even be willing to bet against you, though anyone with a brain could see the obvious difference in their body structure. </span></span>

In retrospect (having had a day to let the episode perk in my mind), I'm beginning to like the 'brat sister,' Thea. Her character arc is moving *fast,* compared to other shows (where she'd be stuck in the same characterization for multiple seasons). She's gone from bratty high-society wastoid, to flat-out telling Ollie that she felt more able to connect with and condide *in his gravestone* than she ever did his living self, to trying to help him work things through with Laurel, and even gently ribbing him at the end of the episode when she catches him smiling.

"What is that on your face!"

Her heart to heart with her mother, last episode, culminating in her attending a company / family function, rather than ditching to go party with her friends, was also a neat bit of development.

I'm also liking how Ollie's step-dad is playing against assumptions as well.

Laurel is still a bit hit and miss for me. I liked her begrudgingly deciding to play outside of the rules, and the judge kind of hammering it home with 'this isn't a court of justice, it's a court of law', although I didn't like how quickly she changed her mind during the prison fight.

Thea's arc does seem to be moving fast, and as you I like it so far, but it being a tv show, there a huge danger that it's not so much progress as simply the first swing in an eternal pendulum. Much like JR Ewing going from villain to human being and back endlessly.

It was particularly irksome when they did it with Sylar on Heroes. I liked very much that they reformed him, but dammit people at least stick with it for two seasons!

So anyway, cautiously optimistic here.

Very true. I hate when a character slingshots back and forth between character growth and being exactly like they were when we first met them. (Which, IMO, is usually a problem with multiple writers, some of whom are still working from the character baseline and failing to account for change that's occured since then, or 'ascended fanboys' getting into the writing and rebooting the character back to the way they liked it best when they became a fan...)

Ah, but much as in comics where I would blame the editor who does have the longer view, on tv I blame the producer. And there's much more money in tv so less excuse for nobody to be paying attention.

Finally caught the first coupla eps as they suddenly appeared in the On Demand menu of my cable provider. Gotta say: so far, so good!

I like the take they have here on Ollie and his mythos. This is MUCH better than Green Arrow has been in the comics for several years and a much more entertaining and deeper "young Ollie" than what DC launched with the New 52.

Yes, you gotta kind of gloss over some of the stereotypical "Batman" elements and some of the illogical leaps (such as how can a recorded confession from a crook obviously done under violent coersion be used in a court of law?!?!), but the cast is really appealing and all the ongoing plots/subplots engaging.

So how many episodes have aired? On Demand has the first three (will watch the third tonight). Will the fourth air tonight, or is the service missing an ep or two?

I think tonight's is the fifth.

TOTES into ARROW!!! I LOVE the fast pacing, which reminds me of another CW show THE VAMPIRE DIARIES... stuff there moves along at a nice pace also.

Yes, we are at 5 episodes. HULU has them all now, but I think 5 is the max they carry at a time (episode 6 will knock off the pilot episode) so catch up quick!

My sole complaint is I'm not seeing Laurel as Black Canary... if that even IS the plan for her. "Horrible fishnets"? *GLARE* Although the Laurel/Ollie kiss scene was TRES HAWT.

And how cool did Deathstroke look?? And next, the Royal Flush Gang!

I'm quite convinced that even if they have a plan for Laurel as Black Canary, they aren't married to it at this point.

Smallville clearly didn't know they were going to do half the cool stuff of later seasons when they were doing the first couple, or they would have foreshadowed much of it. And they had a "Kara" with superpowers early on too.

The old X-Men cartoon thought they were starting after Phoenix Saga (early on Jean said "I had my own dark times" with much gravitas) but couple seasons later, they went ahead and did the saga.

So, kinda doesn't even matter what their plan is at the moment. If the show lasts 6 seasons, Laurel WILL be Black Canary at some point. Assuming they don't kill her off before then.

What am I saying? If they kill her off, she'll DEFINTELY be back as Black Canary.

In fact I wonder if Laurel's mom will show up as Black Canary first.

Another possibility: Laurel's sister showing up as BC or someone else.

I doubt they'll undo her sister's death anytime so, it being roughly akin to Spidey's Uncle Ben. (Not to say never, but not soon.)

But Laurel's mom, also called Dinah (which would explain why everyone uses Laurel's middle name), could in fact be already on the trail of the people who sabotaged the yacht.

I now officially subscribe to this theory.

I dunno... seems to me they intentionally left wide open the possibility that she's alive. To quote one website :

I also now officially subscribe to this theory.

I really like Laurel, personally. Besides being simply drop-dead gorgeous, I think her complex feelings toward Ollie make perfect sense given their history. So I can understand her being sympathetic one moment and bitchy the next. Love also the relationship between Laurel and her dad. Can't help, though, but think he will end up being Arrow's Captain Stacy when all is said and done, probably sooner than later.

All I'm saying is Sarah's not likely to come back soon. They're milking the guilt-for-Ollie angle too much to give it up this season.

Though as the season cliffhanger, maybe.

I *love* Sonny's theory that Sarah and Laurel's missing mom is going to be Black Canary. That's some good theory!!

I thought he looked ridiculous.

Of course your opinion is as valid as anyone's, and-- as is well-documented-- I will be the FIRST to rip on Marv Wolfman's ludicrous creations (like Terry Long, Pariah and Azrael) BUT...

I *do* submit that TV-Deathstroke looked... TOTES TITS.

I present Exhibit A:

Dude, that pic makes his head look like a Red Skull cake gone wrong.

I bothered me that Slade had two eyes showing....or I guess the eye-loss is still to come?!? It didn't show him suffering the eye injury this past episode did it? And haven't flashbacks to Slade's career pre-eye loss shown him wearing a full orange mask and a half-and-half afterwards?

Otherwise, he looked fine, but the two staring eyes grated on me a little.

I hadn't thought about Sarah Lance being alive! Maybe someone will appear and look like her, but no memory - or maybe she'll be an imposter. I'd just as soon she stay dead, though; one came-back-from-the-dead is enough.

Well you know, if the series goes on too long, even Ollie's dad will come back.

Nope!

Five eps in, and I'm still loving it. I like that, with Diggle's criticism, he's being a bit less lethal than in his first appearance. (Since these episodes were probably filmed long before fans reacted with alarm about all the deaths in the first appearance, it seems to have been part of the plan, and not just a hasty response to fan outrage, which is kind of neat, suggesting that the show-writer(s) *intended* for us to see the killing as a flaw to be corrected in Ollie's methods, and sort of 'played' the audience a bit, by letting them think that the writers were deliberately trying to shove a killer Green Arrow down their throats.)

Yep, and I'd make a "90% frosting" joke but I'm too lazy.

Gonna call him Cupcake the Terminator though.

ARRGGG. I am just so confused now! I thought I had everyone pegged and then they keep acting differently and making me think they aren't who I thought they'd be!

I just cannot, for the life of me, figure out WHO is going to be the "big baddie"! Every time I think I've got it, things CHANGE.

That being said, I love this show.

The road seems pretty clear that Tommy Merlyn is going to be a bad-guy / problem at some point.

He's got it bad for Laurel, who is still hung up on Oliver (and vice versa), but both of them have been giving Tommy the impression that they are over each other, which he's going to regard as a big betrayal when they inevitably end up together...

Momma Queen's obviously in cahoots with badness. (And John Barrowman's nameless character seems to be the head of that particular serpent.)

Deathstroke will likely return eventually, probably with only one remaining eye. I'm not seeing him tied in with the various Starling City bad-guys, so I see him more as a Season 2 threat (unless his mercs are hired to deal with the vigilante threatening their business).

Thea's an odd one. After being spurned, she could go in all sorts of directions.

Detective Lance also remains up in the air. He's got a massive axe to grind, and could even go so far as to turn into a counter-vigilante and begin breaking laws in an attempt to catch the vigilante...

An interesting take on the Royal Flush Gang, not what I expected at all.

I'd like to see the Gang return in Season 2 as a gadget-using crime-pulling "family" of baddies who aren't related. Loved the masks.

Yes, I'm glad I stuck with this show!

Ripped from the headlines!

Abby Catt sounds so much like a super-villain secret identity.

I am liking the show more as it progresses. I agree that they intentionally wanted Ollie to be grim 'n gritty at first and we're seeing him slowly reclaim his humanity - not just in contrast to the grim avenger, but even as a traumatized survivor looking to reconnect with society.

I hadn't realized this analogy until the latest episode, but this series is totally "Hamlet" as super-hero story. (The ghost-dad really hammering it home - Ollie even had his "to be or not to be" moment on the island this ep!) You've got the wayward scion set upon a mission of retribution by a dead father, the mother who remarries soon after the death of the father, the hanging-by-a-thread waif,(sister as opposed to girlfriend in this case) the hero who acts the cad but secretly plotting (opening a nightclub vs. putting on a play) etc... Even the vengeance-filled, yet noble, enemy who blames the hero for the loss of a family member (papa lance mourning his daughter vs. Laertes mourning sister Ophelia)

Also, I have complete faith that we'll see Laurel's sister come back a "opposite side of the coin" type of villain who experiences many of the same trials that Ollie went through, but turning out very differently.... (perhaps even being Deathstroke's apprentice)

^^Good call on the Hamlet comparison.

Re: Deathstroke, my guess at this point is that he'll probably show up in a "secret identity", so that it may be awhile before we realize that it is the same guy from the island. It would make sense that they would avoid the eye injury so that it won't be as obvious when he shows up.

Well Ollie was away for 5 years, so I wouldn't characterize his mom's remarriage as "soon", but otherwise, yeah, lots of parallels.

Also, just to nitpick, when Mr Queen set his son on this path, he was still alive (for a few more seconds). Which I guess is an option if it's suicide and not murder.

Thanks - you should've seen my post comparing HBO's "Deadwood" to Kirby's Fourth World....

The debut of the Huntress plus the revelation of John Barrowman's identity (though I'm not really sure why it was built up as a dramatic mystery) were pretty groovy. I think I would've liked it if they'd gone a little longer without Oliver and Helena learning each other's identities, but I'm really curious where things go with them.

I like that Helena looks to be more than a one-episode wonder like Deadshot and the Royal Flush Gang were.

I'm actually thinking/hoping Huntress joins the cast regularly. That kiss at the end was H-O-T despite not being sloppy.

As Ravager or a vengeance-seeking Black Canary?

Just watching Episode 6, the Royal Flush Gang episode.

Just saw the L ring they used to track down the high school kid and think it looks very familiar.

You know what would be really awesome to see on this show?

The Seven Soldiers of Victory.

Most of them can pretty easily fit within the naturalistic tone of the show (the most difficult would be the Shining Knight, I suppose), and how awesome would a pulpy Crimson Avenger be?

ARROW continues to hold my interest and to be surprisingly well done! The island backstory continues to unfold at a steady pace and I am liking current-day developments too, such as Felicity becoming more involved.

Knowing that Roy Harper is coming and who is playing him just ups my interest even more!

Arrow is definitely "must-watch" for this poster! (I LOVE Felicity!!! )

The Felicity character drives me to distraction because she looks SO much like my adorable, sweet, and super-smart little niece Kayla. (I'm adopted, so others in my family have much better genes than I do).

I've even gotten her family to watch ARROW because of the resemblance!

I'm enjoying the show, but am often distracted in this cold winter we're having by how often Oliver has his shirt off for no darn reason. He's giving me chills! Plus there seems to be an unusual number of times that he shows up wounded and wakes up with his shirt off. Diggle's getting pretty good at taking unconscious people's clothes off, is all I'm sayin...

Also, questioning why they hired someone who looks good with his shirt off and then scarred the heck out of him. And what gave him that huge bite on that part of his side where us mere mortals have fat? I'm waiting for the Flashback Island story on that one...

I'm thinking komodo dragon, 'cause you can't have too many Johnny Quest shout outs when you're on a mysterious island in the south China seas.

Roy Harper is a werewolf? Oh, that's super-confusing!

*tee hee!* I will totes miss Colton on TEEN WOLF....

Felicity is easily the breakout character of the series!

Holy heckenstein!! Another great ARROW episode, with Tommy now learning Arrow's ID. This could/will lead to trouble, of course.

Yeah, fantastic stuff!

And did I not call the plotline!

I have to say I've only seen a few issues. Seemed like a lot of heavy breathing talk, someone always injured. Not to say that it isn't good, I'm sure. I just haven't had much chance to get into it.

Flash to appear in Arrow?

First episode of the season was really strong!

^ I saw it tonight--and liked it! It looks like the show's really trying to move forward, while not ignoring anything it's already done.

And can it be: Is Ollie about to become "Green Arrow"?

This show continues to be pretty awesome.

Ollie has had to confront an actual super-powered threat, thanks to a WW2 era super-soldier formula that may turn out to be responsible for the empowerment of both Deathstroke and the Arrowverse version of Solomon Grundy.

There's a Black Canary running around, Roy Harper is full on sidekicking to the Arrow, Brother Blood is in the wings, pulling strings and doing bad things, and we just met the daughter of R'as al-Ghul!

And, we saw the origin of the Flash, who will be getting his own pilot 'soon.'

Marvel may have the movie scene all sewn up, but DC seems to be hitting the TV hard, which, given that comic books serial nature lends itself well to serial TV (more so than tentpole blockbuster movies), could be a smart move.

A blockbuster movie is a huge risk for a (potentially) huge payoff (and, also potentially, a huge *bath,* if it doesn't pan out). A series is a slower burn, but, if it can make it past the first couple years is a constant stream of revenue. If DC plays it right, it could be the difference between a 9 to 5 job with a steady paycheck, and hoping to keep winning big lottery tickets with movies every couple of years.

Then again, Marvel is *also* moving into episodic production, in a big way, with five Netflix mini-series (Daredevil, Power Man, Iron Fist, Jessica Jones, Defenders) and a few other shot in the dark TV spin-offs.

Man, I seriously need to get caught up on this, because everything I've heard about it makes it sound pretty much awesome.

Pretty good show. Oliver's bad decision making makes me cringe sometimes.

On the DC universe front...they also had the beginnings of the Suicide Squad with Amanda Waller recruiting Bronze Tiger.

And what about that Birds of Prey tease?

Arrow's probably my favorite show right now!

Arrow is epic!
I look forward to it every week... Never disappoints...

A very strong start to the current season, even though it started with a tragedy that saddens me. Have I mentioned that Felicity is my biggest TV crush? She just nails every scene she's in and surprisingly brings the impact of the tragedy alluded to above better than any other character or their actors.

Not sure about this version of Ray Palmer, though. He almost comes off as a potential villain. I guess we'll see...

I have no doubt that Ray Palmer is totally on the up-and-up. They're just teasing the notion that he might be sinister or at the very least be a thorn in Ollie's side.

In my mind, it's similar to "Smallville" where they weren't able to use Batman so they used a stand-in. Then, it was Green Arrow in lieu of Batman. Here, I see it as Ray Palmer in lieu of Bruce Wayne. He's got the money, the charm, the desire to build up his city, the technical know-how, the mysterious agenda.... that's definitely more Bruce Wayne than any Ray Palmer I've ever seen.

Apparently he was actually supposed to be Ted Kord, but they subbed in Ray Palmer when DC balked.

Was Ray Palmer ever this business savvy in the comics? I don't recall him being so charismatic.

No, Ray Palmer was a college professor, not a businessman.

That's an interesting step up, if true. It rarely works out for the better when the higher ups intervene.

The young Ted Grant is a bit distracting but I like the character and the actor I suppose. I MUCH prefer the guy from the JSA.


Palmer: he's very "Clark Kentish," to me. I like the character. One of the few on the show that seems done by an accomplished actor.

I like the plots too but for several of the key actors I get an, "ok it's your turn to read a line" impression and don't forget to over-emote. Probably just me?

The guy who plays GA, to me it's like watching Arnold Schwarzenegger without the charisma. I swear his jaw is going to break if he doesn't unclench, but I think (hope) that's more what he actually looks like than his acting. When he's in the same scene as Felicity I feel she has to act down.

I've been critical of a lot about Arrow and Flash but they are absolutely nailing the cross-over. Right blend of humor and the character chemistries (except Flash-Iris) are working really well particularly between Team Flash and Team Arrow.

Yeah, so I'm pretty pissed off with Arrow after this week.

I dunno. I know the producers have said this and that, but I can't help but think something fishy's going on.

My initial thought, back when the grave scene was first teased in the season premiere, was fear that it was Felicity or Diggle. We've known for a little while that it wouldn't be Felicity. But I guess, in my mind, those were the two I thought were most indisposable. I think I've always thought it would have to be either Thea or Quentin. For some reason, it never or rarely crossed my mind that it would be Laurel. In some ways she seems to have had more story left in her than any of them. So it's really a shame, if it sticks.

Yeah, she's definitely the character who has the most story potential in her. Honestly, Thea and Diggle seem like they keep repeating the same story beats over and over again, and I probably wouldn't miss either that much.

From a broader point of view, they've basically taken one of DC's most iconic and longest running female characters and refrigerated her. They really should know better.

I'd miss Diggle. A lot. Though his storyline is kinda stale, I just love him and the actor.

As for Laurel, I dunno, maybe they're opening the door for sarah to return (since LoT apparently has a rotating cast). I remember how popular Sarah was (much more so than Laurel, I believe) when Sarah was such a big part of season 2. Obviously, Laurel has come a long way since then, but that is fairly an accurate account of how Sarah came off vs. her sister.

Still think there's something hinkey going on. How can anyone not think so looking at how the sequence leading up to her death played out?

Trading Laurel for Sarah on LoT would be really cool.

What if Laurel goes to LoT next season? Maybe a version of her plucked from time before her death?

Ooh... that might be interesting.

I'm expecting Vixen to go to LoT.

I cut out mid-way through season 2, but for me Cassidy was always a bit of a weak link on the acting front (and my wife actively couldn't stand her). A lot of fan reaction seems similar, and with most people getting behind Felicity as the love interest, I'm not sure what room they had for her other than the ongoing family drama.

Unfortunately, I thought both Canary actors to be weak links. Don't find either to have a presence or to be convincing voice actors. The first one a bit better in the action sequences. In a show where the acting is generally bad (my opinion), they stand out front.

and so they say, "hey we've killed her off so let's put her bad acting into Flash and mess that up too.

sigh

I never bought Laurel as Black Canary - I think Lotz is much better. I didn't mind Laurel so much as a character, though I feel she was given the short end of the stick in terms of how she was written. It seemed funny that they first justified using Lotz as Canary saying that her training with the League gave her credibility in terms of her skillset to be able to stand next to Ollie as a hero, then when they decided Laurel would be Canary, they *downplayed* the fighting skills she had shown before, just to build her up again in a short period of time. And even after they gave her the "Canary Cry", all it ever seemed to do was shatter a lot of glass and made everyone pause for a second and hold their heads rather than effectively taking anyone out.

They tried to give Laurel some agency by making her choose to go into battle one last time, but she was still murdered while immobilized like Shado and Ollie's mother just so Ollie could watch her die. tsk tsk... C'mon guys...

I just thought I should point out that Arrow had a really excellent episode last week that tackled gun control. I thought it was awesome that it attempted to present all sides of the issue without leaning one way. Entitled "Trail of the Gun", I assume it was a loose adaptation of the Nocenti/Van Sciver Batman and Catwoman prestige mini.

I thought Stephen Amell did an excellent job. Often criticized for being too wooden, I think he hit all the right notes in a script that called for much more Mayor Queen than Green Arrow.

I've also loved this season for its expansion of Ollie's crew. I find the Rene/Wild Dog character quite captivating for some reason. He gets a lot of the spotlight in this episode.

I also like the new Black Canary. I think she has more of an edge and intensity than the other Canary actors

I enjoyed the spotlight on Rene/Wild Dog this past week

I feel like Mr. Terrific is being set up to be killed at some point and that makes me sad

It definitely feels like the last season of this show ... maybe to have Flash be the flagship (as they add Black Lightning in the mix)

It's not. A sixth season has been announced for some time.

So, this show came to an end last night.

I can't say I loved it all the way through, and it really felt like it had run its course before turning in a surprising excellent final season.

It probably shouldn't have worked so well that a show that started out so grim and gritty and "realistic" ended up by pulling off the ultimate supernatural reset button, but I really liked it.

I've been a fan of the show from the beginning. It's had its low points, sure, but it has been pretty great overall.

It was a pretty affecting final episode. I never teared up, though I thought I might at a couple of points. It was nice to see so many characters back one last time and a few surprises among them that EDE hints at above.

Gotta wonder what beef the writers have with John Byrne, though. They named a human trafficker in the episode after him! Not the most popular artist as a person but YEESH!