Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Legion of Super-Heroes Sales Figures

There is NO doubt Legion was hurt badly by both L3W and the imminent cancellation, that made sure Shooter's story was to be irrelevant for the future of the franchise.

Why is there "NO doubt"? Shooter's first few issues overperformed the sales trend, and the last few were just back on form. Or the lack thereof.

I agree, other than a large bump at the outset (with a variant cover), Shooter's run started sliding almost immediately. I don't think that can be blamed on Lo3W. You could make the case that the Lightning Saga and Action arcs hurt it, but the downward trend is pretty consistent across the entire threeboot. If anything it looks like Shooter provided little to no impact on the books performance.

Sales from about 1997 on(also courtesy of Reboot by way of the Legion Clubhouse):

Legionnaires #49 - 26,300
Legion of Super-Heroes #93 - 27,200 [-2.6%]
Legionnaires #50 - 28,300 [+7.6%]
Legion of Super-Heroes #94 - 26,500 [-2.3%]
Legionnaires #51 - 25,700 [-9.2%]
Legion of Super-Heroes #95 - 26,100 [-1.1%]
Legionnaires #52 - 25,200 [-2.0%]
Legion of Super-Heroes #96 - 25,500 [-2.3%]
Legionnaires #53 - 25,400 [+0.8%]
Legion of Super-Heroes #97 - 27,700 [+8.6%]
Legionnaires #54 - 25,200 [-0.8%]
Legion of Super-Heroes #98 - 25,800 [-6.9%]
Legionnaires #55 - 25,100 [-0.4%]
Legion of Super-Heroes #99 - 26,100 [+1.2%]
Legionnaires #56 - 25,100 [-0.0%]
Legion of Super-Heroes #100 - 29,800 [+14.2%]
Legionnaires #57 - 24,400 [-2.8%]
Legion of Super-Heroes #101 - 25,000 [-16.1%]
Legends of the Legion #1 (of 4) - 24,900
Legionnaires #58 - 23,800 [-2.5%]
Legion of Super-Heroes #102 - 24,500 [-2.0%]
Legends of the Legion #2 (of 4) - 21,400 [-14.0%]
Legionnaires #59 - 23,100 [-2.9%]
Legion of Super-Heroes #103 - 23,900 [-2.4%]
Legends of the Legion #3 (of 4) - 19,800 [-7.5%]
Legionnaires #60 - 23,100 [-0.0%]
Legion of Super-Heroes #104 - 24,100 [+0.8%]
Legends of the Legion #4 (of 4) - 19,300 [-2.5%]
Legionnaires #61 - 24,200 [+5.0%]
Legion of Super-Heroes #105 - 24,700 [+3.0%]
Legionnaires #62 - 22,800 [-5.8%]
Legion of Super-Heroes #106 - 23,200 [-6.1%]
Legionnaires #63 - 23,100 [+1.3%]
Legion of Super-Heroes #107 - 23,400 [+0.9%]
Legion of Science Police #1 (of 4) - 18,500
Legionnaires #64 - 22,400 [-3.0%]
Legion of Super-Heroes #108 - 22,700 [-3.0%]
Legion of Science Police #2 (of 4) - 15,900 [-14.0%]
Legionnaires #65 - 21,600 [-3.6%]
Legion of Super-Heroes #109 - 21,900 [-3.5%]
Legion of Science Police #3 (of 4) - 14,500 [-8.1%]
Legionnaires #1000000 - 29,300
Legion of Super-Heroes #1000000 - 29,300
Legion of Science Police #4 (of 4) - 13,400 [-7.6%]
Legionnaires #66 - 20,900 [-3.3%]
Legion of Super-Heroes #110 - 21,400 [-1.0%]
Legionnaires #67 - 20,700 [-1.0%]
Legion of Super-Heroes #111 - 20,900 [-2.3%]
Legionnaires #68 - 20,100 [-2.9%]
Legion of Super-Heroes #112 - 20,400 [-2.4%]
Legionnaires #69 - 19,800 [-1.5%]
Legion of Super-Heroes #113 - 20,200 [-1.0%]
Legionnaires #70 - 18,900 [-4.5%]
Legion of Super-Heroes #114 - 19,600 [-3.0%]
Legionnaires #71 - 18,700 [-1.1%]
Legion of Super-Heroes #115 - 19,100 [-2.6%]
Legionnaires #72 - 18,400 [-1.8%]
Legion of Super-Heroes #116 - 18,800 [-1.3%]
Legionnaires #73 - 18,100 [-1.5%]
Legion of Super-Heroes #117 - 18,500 [-1.9%]
Legionnaires #74 - 17,600 [-2.8%]
Legion of Super-Heroes #118 - 18,100 [-2.1%]
Legionnaires #75 - 17,700 [+0.6%]
Legion of Super-Heroes #119 - 18,000 [-0.6%]
Legionnaires #76 - 17,600 [-0.6%]
Legion of Super-Heroes #120 - 17,900 [-0.6%]
Legionnaires #77 - 17,300 [-0.4%]
Legion of Super-Heroes #121 - 17,700 [0%]

DnA start:

Legionnaires #78 - 17,300 [0%]

Legion of the Damned:

Legion of Super-Heroes #122 - 18,400 [+4.0%]
Legionnaires #79 - 17,200 [-0.6%]
Legion of Super-Heroes #123 - 17,700 [-3,8%]
Legionnaires #80 - 15,800 [-5,4%]

Widening Rifts:

Legion of Super-Heroes #124 - 17,200 [0%]
Legionnaires #81 - 17,000 [+7.6%]
Legion of Super-Heroes #125 - 17,500 [+1.7%]

Legion Lost:

Legion Lost #1 - 20,900
Legion Lost #2 - 19,100 [+8.3%]
Legion Lost #3 - 21,200 [+11,0%]
Legion Lost #4 - 22,000 [+3.8%] / 21,974
Legion Lost #5 - 22,406
Legion Lost #6 - 21,379
Legion Lost #7 - 21,706
Legion Lost #8 - 21,137
Legion Lost #9 - 21,540
Legion Lost #10 - 20,217
Legion Lost #11 - 19,553
Legion Lost #12 - 20,510

Superboy's Legion:

Superboy's Legion #1 - 23,350
Superboy's Legion #2 - 21,080

Legion Worlds:

Legion Worlds #1 - 23,830 / 21,955
Legion Worlds #2 - 22,020 / 20,570
Legion Worlds #3 - 22,080 / 20,954
Legion Worlds #4 - 21,960 / 20,832
Legion Worlds #5 - 21,410 / 20,685
Legion Worlds #6 - 21,520 / 20,129

The Legion:

The Legion #1 - 28,350
The Legion #2 - 24,364
The Legion #3 - 24,338
The Legion #4 - 24,416
The Legion #5 - 24,232
The Legion #6 - 24,603
The Legion #7 - 25,113
The Legion #8 - 24,771
The Legion #9 - 24,566
The Legion #10 - 24,775
The Legion #11 - 24,988
The Legion #12 - 25,355
The Legion #13 - 24,218
The Legion #14 - 23,880
The Legion #15 - 23,962
The Legion #16 - 23,744
The Legion #17 - 23,005
The Legion #18 - 22.516 / 23,180
The Legion #19 - 23,214
The Legion #20 - 23,184
The Legion #21 - 22,749
The Legion #22 - 22,987
The Legion #23 - 22,466
The Legion #24 - 22,653
The Legion #25 - 30,440
The Legion Secret Files 3003 - 19,231
The Legion #26 - 26,635
The Legion #27 - 25,667
The Legion #28 - 25,042
The Legion #29 - 24,908
The Legion #30 - 25,014
The Legion #31 - 24,870
The Legion #32 - 24,608
The Legion #33 - 24,865
The Legion #34 - 23,903
The Legion #35 - 24,207
The Legion #36 - 23,717
The Legion #37 - 23,479
The Legion #38 - 23,327
Teen Titans/The Legion Special #1 - 61,047

Yeah, I think Reboot and Rouge are right. Shooter made little impact--his writing simply did not draw in new fans. In fact, it continued the trend of the current Legion fans becoming more and more dissatisfied.

Same area as the current...and it was pretty much the same area before 97 as well going back to the tail end of the 5YG.

Those numbers continuing on the 3Boot, especially with Jim Shooter at the helm, made it pretty obvious to DC which direction they needed to go in...

Waid
Roger Stern
DNA
Jim Shooter
Gail Simone
Etc.


It's got nothing to do with the writers.


It's got everything to do with the standalone Legion being a closed club that doesn't attract new readers and never has. Not a problem when that club is big as it once was, but as that membership shrinks and what's left are basically a cult following...it's a problem, especially when they are an angry cult, and there are more profitable alternatives available.

So basically the choice for the Legion cultists is remain that closed club and have no Legion book to read...or open up the membership gates(by making the book less isolated and intimidating) and get a Legion book to read.


Fan bases of 20 thousand aren't really in a position to be making demands about the product they get. We aren't the X-Fans or anything comparable to them. That was 20+ years ago...this is now.

An unfortunate reality of comic book life, but true nontheless.


I don't have a doubt DC would have loved for the standalone Legion to be successful. That's why they pushed, pulled, heaved, hoed, shoved, cajoled, that concept uphill for 20 years, restarting it several times in the process, and they just weren't ever picking up the new fans in substantial numbers doing it...

The more I think about it the more I come to the conclusion that Shooter was definitely the last ditch attempt by DC to sell the stand alone Legion.


That's why they wrote Supergirl out of the title the issue before he took over. And wouldn't give him a super even when he was begging for one.


I think the reasoning was that if the Legion's most iconic creator couldn't sell it, no one could.

And I know a lot of people will immediately bring up Levitz, but Levitz already kind of attempted it himself in the latter half of the Baxter run and he didn't fare much better. On the contrary, the decline started with him.

And he most definitely was not writing a stand alone Legion at the beginning of the Levitz Giffen era...in fact he was writing he most mainstream incarnation of the team up to that point. Superboy AND Supergirl, Darkseid, descendants of Bruce Wayne and Oliver Queen, Guardians(or at least their clones) and Green Lanterns?

Thinking about it some more, the reason there isn't a regular Legion title right now is probably because they simply know it's potential as a stand alone property and they don't want to relaunch a book that's just going to sell 20k copies per month. So they are going to skirt the Superman ownership issues to the greatest degree possible while rejoining the Legion with him, possibly in attempt to eventually wean this version of the Legion off on it own as a stand alone Legion, or they are just waiting until that ownership situation is resolved.


Attempting to spin it off as a stand alone after a mini-run with Superman under Johns won't work...even if it sells fairly well while Johns is on it, the second he leaves it's going to go back to that 20k level, and it again will have problems attracting new readers. I mean not only does the Legion have problems as a stand alone, that's similar to a notorious problem with Johns titles as well...when he leaves the wheels(and his fixes) come off. Fast.

The Legion either needs to get it's own marquee/anchor character(like Wolverine in the X-Men), the Superman situation needs to be resolved to DC's benefit...or else they need to find another marquee anchor character in the regular DC Uni. Maybe they are hoping they can turn Mon into one...

Personally, I think they should stick Impulse in a Flash Uni and make him a member, the Flash of the 31st century. It probably won't have a true marquee/achor impact but it'll probably work better than any other options available to them.

I agree the Legion needs one or more marquee characters.

It's possible that the cartoon and even the Smallville appearance have laid a foundation of some sort. Time will tell.

Legion under the Superman umbrella is not a bad thing right now, in my opinion. Even if the sales #s were there, writers seem unable to craft a cohesive, accessible story around the Legion nowadays anyway.

As part of the S-books, they wil lget more exposure, and maybe someday DC and creators can get back to having a grasp on how to make the Legion work in their own right.

His run was made irrelevant by DC early on. His run didn't draw enough readers? Maybe. But it is just economics: 2 books, competing for the same dollars. Legion (the book) is left for completists. Those who were newbies had no other options than buy Johns' LSH. It is just economics and marketing.
So, let me rephrase it: the selling curve went further south due to DC Editorial decision to make Legion irrelevant.

The history of all DC's stand-alone teams is the same. Doom Patrol, Omega Men, Outsiders, Infinity Inc, L.E.G.I.O.N.

No doubt R.E.B.E.L.S. will go the same way,

It's not even team books - major players in the DCU like Aquaman or the Atom have consistently over 30 years, failed to bring in the readers. Only Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, the Flash and Green Lantern have consistently maintained acceptable sales figures - along with their supporting cast and team books.

DC aren't dumb, Batman & the Outsiders was the obvious launching vehicle for that new team and the Legion cartoon featured Superboyman heavily.

If the Leagion has to have a Superman to survive then so be it I guess. It would be interesting to see what a Bart Flash would do for sales but I suspect it wouldn't do enough.

"Superman & the Legion" by Geoff Johns is the most likely way of improving sales figures in the short term. Whether new readers would stay after Johns' tenure would, presumably, depend on the quality of the writer who followed on

That's an interesting take. I have to admit it was Superboy that brought me onboard as a kid when I was crazy for comics and I've always liked the team enough that I'll stick with it whether there's a marqee character or not. Not so with the casual reader, in general it seems they want the S or the Bat on just about everything they buy from DC or they're going to spend their couple of bucks on something else, probably something with an X on it.

My question about a relaunch though is whether they're going to treat this as an "Adult Legion" run of stories and relaunch with a teen team and a younger Superman or if TPTB will pick this up where it leaves off. I wonder that if DC owns a Superboy might they give us back something similar to the Legion where Levitz left off or will they blow that off and just go with Superman & ____________(fill in the blank)?

hhmmm..this might make an interesting poll. Grown up Legion or Teen Legion? Just to see where the fans stand.

There is one way for a Legion book to work -- for Warner and DC to actually coordinate their developments. Apparently the Superman movie franchise is being considered for a (much needed) reboot. If Warner could make a good (Iron Man, Dark Night) Superman movie -- I know that seems very unlikely -- and throw a small Legion scene into it ... and then have DC follow on with a reasonably good Legion title with an "S" character ... and maybe a Lego Superman game for the Wii with some Legion characters, then possibly a Legion title could coast along for 4 or 5 years.

I think a more likely scenario is for the stock market to rebound fantastically and for my retirement savings account to grow to the point I could publish my own Legion title. It would be good, I promise.

I've always been of the mind that the Legion would make an outstanding movie property.

It's a combination of the 4 main subgenres of sci-fi, the future, space, time travel and superheroes.


It's like Superman meets Star Wars meets Star Trek meets Dr. Who...and they've actually got some magic and fantasy elements to throw in there as well.

And they've got plenty of epic stories to base the movie on.

If I ever become wealthy the first thing I'm doing is buying the movie rights to the Legion.

The Lego Superman video game for Wii with Legion characters is probably the coolest and most brilant thing I've read about online in the lsat five years!

Hey read all my posts from the last five years. I'm full of cool brilliance.

Here's the LO3W Sales for February. That's actually a pretty minuscule drop considering the delay and that the "parent series" of Final Crisis was well done by this point. The rise in ranks doesn't mean too much, as February was a lean month, but this is still encouraging that the series is holding an audience.


08/2008: Lo3W #1 -- 68,306, #20 out of 300 [73,914]
10/2008: Lo3W #2 -- 64,412, #23 out of 300
02/2009: Lo3W #3 -- 61,358, #15 out of 300

That is encouraging. Especially when you look at the drop between issue 1 through 3,that is really small (even for a mini).

Those are very nice numbers (IMO) and great to see for a Legion book.

So, we sell fewer issues and move up in the rankings. Must be because we outlasted some of those pesky limited sereis like crossovers for mega events like Final Crisis! Ha! I knew we'd outlast those losers!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rouge:
[QB] Here's the LO3W Sales for April. A very healthy retention level, especially given the delays. I expect with the Superboy return this might rack up some re-orders next month as well. It remains to be seen how big a launchpad this gives Adventure comics.


08/2008: Lo3W #1 -- 68,306, #20 out of 300 [73,914]
10/2008: Lo3W #2 -- 64,412, #23 out of 300
02/2009: Lo3W #3 -- 61,358, #15 out of 300
04/2009: Lo3W #4 -- 56,888, #28 out of 300

...and that's how I'm pessimistically viewing Lo3W. It's a launchpad for Adventure Comics which looks like it'll headline Superboy, Kid Flash who figures prominently in Flash: Rebirth and possibly Teen Titans or the FLash title. It's a launchpad for everything except a Legion ongoing. When Didio said 2009 (or was it 2010) was going to be a big year for Legion, it better not be this guest-fest we're seeing at the moment (with Mon-El over at Supes' titles, Starman at JSA, etc.). The Legion's everywhere but their own series... :-(

I've stopped believing what Dan Didio say a long time ago, even more so when he often contracts himself.

but that just gives you multiple choices as to what to disbelieve!

Does anyone else see the the length between issues as the main cause of the drop in sales? I mean, that's 12K since issue 1. I'm sure some of it is dissatisfaction in story, but the gap between issues, sheesh.

On the other hand, I just checked the numbers for the main Final Crisis, and it couldn't hold an audience either, although it obviously outsold L3W. Here they are:
Final Crisis # 1 May '08 144,826
Final Crisis # 2 June '08 126,082
Final Crisis # 3 August '08 123,881
Final Crisis # 4 October '08 109,181
Final Crisis # 5 December '08 115,666
Final Crisis # 6 January '09 110,892
Final Crisis # 7 January '09 103,292

It lost almost 30% of its audience by series end.

That's actually quite normal. In fact the drop offs you mentioned are pretty slight compared to the usual ones. Both mini's appeared to have held their audience much better than most regular titles do.

Or you can just automatically disbelieve everything at once, to save time.


[ <--- On the outside]